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[00:04:43] <andypugh> He mentioned 1-wire, but it seems that voltage sensors are scarce.
[00:04:55] <PCW> you can get 300 baud serial the the lousiest (and cheapest) of OPTOs
[00:05:05] <andypugh> On a boat there will be a common ground, I think.
[00:05:28] <L84Supper> last year was supposedly the time when smartphone dongles were supposed to take off, people we making all sorts of remote sensors
[00:05:50] <L84Supper> use a phone for remote monitoring
[00:05:55] <andypugh> I have the impression he was not wanting to design PCBs
[00:06:12] <andypugh> L84Supper: Links?
[00:06:23] <Valen> andypugh: what voltage is the system?
[00:06:34] <L84Supper> andypugh, from what I've seen they never became real
[00:06:52] <L84Supper> andypugh, is that the sort of thing that he needs?
[00:07:48] <andypugh> Probably 12V, possibly 24V, but large resistors exist for voltage division.
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[00:08:40] <Valen> do keep in mind that method will put a constant drain on the cells and also reduce your accuracy
[00:09:14] <PCW> Big lead acid?
[00:09:18] <jdh> http://www.moxa.com/product/iologik-e2240.htm
[00:09:30] <jdh> I have a few of those at work. Pretty cheap
[00:10:10] <jdh> or not so cheap for that version.
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[00:11:13] <PCW> just mentioning the isolation since often individual cells or batteries that are part of a series chain are monitored
[00:13:13] <L84Supper> http://www.amazon.com/USB-Multifunction-Module-Analog-Inputs/dp/B003DV56K2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_4/176-9200346-5221340
[00:13:30] <jdh> http://store.moxa.com/a/product/iologik-w5340-series?id=M20090324006
[00:13:40] <jdh> that one and a mux.
[00:13:51] <PCW> bbl
[00:14:10] <L84Supper> http://www.portwell.com/products/detail_io.asp?CUSTCHAR1=USB-II-16
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[00:14:33] <jdh> they have some almost-ladder stuff built in. You can have it phone home on condition
[00:14:45] <L84Supper> forget that one it's not analog IO
[00:15:24] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: Isn't most of their stuff terribly overpriced unless you buy thousands?
[00:15:26] <jdh> I've got some cheap NI analog usb things that work ok.
[00:16:21] <L84Supper> http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/201986
[00:16:48] <jdh> mine are 14bit
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[00:17:58] <L84Supper> http://numato.com/8-channel-usb-gpio-module $19.95
[00:19:50] <jdh> http://www.abelectronics.co.uk/products/3/Raspberry-Pi/7/ADC-Pi---Raspberry-Pi-Analogue-to-Digital-converter
[00:19:52] <L84Supper> FinboySlick, portwell?
[00:20:06] <jdh> I ordered one of those. They have an 18bit version also, but it's slow
[00:20:38] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: Yeah. I had a couple projects and while the hardware was spot-on, I couldn't justify the costs. I'm sure they're better on larger runs though.
[00:20:44] <L84Supper> good enough to monitor batteries
[00:21:36] <jdh> monitoring lead acid batteries for voltage doesn't tell you much about their health
[00:22:16] <L84Supper> FinboySlick, yeah, like most of the embedded vendors
[00:23:22] <L84Supper> FinboySlick, lots of low cost, decently made embedded boards from China are not sold outside of China
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[00:25:32] <FinboySlick> Hehe, I have no love for china tonight... I'm working on getting that Z axis perpendicular again.
[00:25:56] <spamftw> Hey all. A few friends and I have converted over a mini mill from a Jaiman controller board to LinuxCNC controlled. Our current hurdle is that the bed is a bit uneven and would be very difficult to flatten. I'm curious if anyone has had experience/tips regarding mapping the bed of a mill
[00:29:23] <L84Supper> like using a laser micrometer mounted on the spindle?
[00:31:10] <jdh> probe the bed in a grid, save the heights, run a post-processor over your gcode to adjust the z heights
[00:31:36] <jdh> most of that has been done for pcb milling
[00:31:52] <Valen> put milling bit in mill, mill bed flat
[00:31:57] <Valen> be sure your right ;->
[00:32:05] <cradek> you have to consider what your goal is
[00:32:31] <jdh> always fix hardware with software.
[00:32:34] <spamftw> what we had looked at was not that high tech no. L84Supper. jdh, I think were on the same lines. unfortunatly Valen, the bed of the mill is slightly larger than the cuttable area
[00:32:38] <jdh> or is that never fix hardware with software.
[00:32:49] <cradek> flexible vs stout work seems like it would need to have different kinds of compensation
[00:32:59] <Valen> put a bigass face cutter in ;->
[00:33:20] <L84Supper> just be sure to be square first
[00:33:31] <cradek> a bogus mill can't mill itself flat
[00:33:59] <Valen> depends whats not flat
[00:34:24] <toastyde1th> "flat" generally refers to the load free path of the machine
[00:34:28] <cradek> imagine a bicycle wheel where your table is. you cut all around the wheel nice and even, but that doesn't make your table flat or allow you to cut flat things
[00:35:34] <L84Supper> so what I think you're saying is get a better mill that is flat and square
[00:35:54] <cradek> or measure your errors and know that they are your machine's tolerance
[00:36:09] <toastyde1th> either get a better mill or be prepared to jack the part around to cut flat
[00:36:10] <cradek> for certain jobs you can do better if you must, by thinking hard about your setup
[00:36:57] <spamftw> sorry, alot to take in? what are arguments against mapping the bed like jdh had mentioned?
[00:36:58] <cradek> but blindly cutting the top of the table or doing some other rash thing is just not going to help you do better work
[00:36:59] <toastyde1th> if you bolt clamps to the part, and then clamps to the table on top of shims, you can physically deform the part so that as the table flexes and axes move, the part is in the correct place
[00:37:13] <toastyde1th> by adding and removing shims
[00:37:17] <toastyde1th> this is done in grinding all the time
[00:37:58] <cradek> spamftw: ok say you map the table (say it's a sine wave) and "compensate" for that in software (by adding it to Z or something)
[00:37:59] <toastyde1th> spamftw, by mapping the bed, you know where the spindle is relative to the table ONLY for that particular table position
[00:38:02] <L84Supper> spamftw, like cradek said earlier, it depends on what you're actually trying to do
[00:38:13] <cradek> now set a nice granite surface plate on the table and face it off
[00:38:17] <toastyde1th> the rest of the table is actually in a physically different place from your map
[00:38:28] <Valen> it still depends on whats not flat
[00:38:53] <Valen> if the ways are wavy then sure, but if the table itself isn't flat and the ways are perfect then milling the bed flat is an option
[00:38:54] <cradek> now you have a surface plate that's as wavy as your table - what good does that do you?
[00:39:22] <cradek> Valen: yes understanding the machine and the work it needs to do is the first step, not cutting things
[00:39:41] <spamftw> Alright, I see what you guys are saying.
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[00:42:57] <toastyde1th> and you really can set the machine up for small errors if you really care about flatness
[00:43:04] <L84Supper> play in the ways or spindle, table not flat, etc etc
[00:43:12] <spamftw> so if it happens that the bed is flat, but the spindle track is the issue? then mapping may be the best idea
[00:43:28] <toastyde1th> I used to have to cut very flat things and by using shims, could do way better than the machine's tolerance as long as the error was repeatable
[00:43:37] <toastyde1th> "spindle track?"
[00:44:23] <spamftw> Yes, sorry? the mill is setup like this
[00:44:24] <spamftw> http://image.ec21.com/image/szelian/oimg_GC04178517_CA04178657/SC2518_Mini_CNC_Router.jpg
[00:44:31] <toastyde1th> z axis
[00:44:48] <L84Supper> gantry mill
[00:45:01] <toastyde1th> you should be able to unbolt and align the head
[00:45:17] <toastyde1th> but tramming a mill is not trivial if you don't understand what has to be checked first
[00:46:03] <spamftw> as the head moves down as it rides to the left of the track (in the last 2 inches), so i'm not sure we can just align it at any one position
[00:46:38] <toastyde1th> that sucks and is something you can't really fix outside knowhow and a lot of elbow grease, or software
[00:46:53] <toastyde1th> for that particular error, software is the best bet since it's a very repeatable and consistent error
[00:47:32] <toastyde1th> if your machine is linear rails, those unbolt too
[00:48:05] <spamftw> got it. got a few more questions but wanted to take the chance to thank you guys for all your help and patience
[00:48:07] <toastyde1th> but unbolting the ways of a machine is a bit of a hail mary if you can get the error down to something you are okay with
[00:48:11] <toastyde1th> with software
[00:48:11] <Valen> tramming with a non flat bed would be challenging ;->
[00:48:36] <toastyde1th> not really
[00:48:49] <toastyde1th> same as tramming a head without unbolting a fixture
[00:49:04] <Valen> you need to be square to something, one generally assumes that the bed is square and lines up to that
[00:49:21] <spamftw> tramming is the process by which the z is mapped?
[00:49:28] <toastyde1th> bed isn't the greatest to begin with although for mostly accurate tramming it's quick and easy
[00:49:48] <Valen> tramming is making sure the mill head is square to the work your cutting
[00:49:48] <toastyde1th> most accurate is to set up a parallel or straightedge on the machine axis suspended 1/4 of the way in from the ends
[00:49:59] <andypugh> spamftw: If you _know_ that your bed is going to win over the work every time (for example a vacuum table and a PCB) then there is a kinematics module for LinuxCNC that models the surface in STL format and compensates.
[00:50:16] <toastyde1th> zero an indicator on one support, travel to the other, and zero the indicator by shimming or jacking the parallel up
[00:50:28] <Valen> so if you do a set of overlapping cuts it wont have a zig-zag pattern on the cut
[00:50:37] <spamftw> andypugh, any link you could point me to for more information on that one?
[00:50:42] <toastyde1th> then you have something quite prallel to the ways without worrying about bed condition or having a bigass fixture on the table
[00:50:43] <spamftw> or anything I should search for
[00:50:44] <andypugh> But in general the bed deforms the work and the work deforms the bed and the proporions of distortion vary.
[00:51:26] <L84Supper> spamftw, is that how the bed is mounted? moves in X on rails? and the spindle moves in Y and Z
[00:52:14] <spamftw> The bed moves in Y, the spindle travels on a rail in X, and the spindle moves on Z
[00:52:50] <andypugh> That's a slightly unfortunate combination.
[00:53:33] <spamftw> andy, in our case I'd say bed will win over work. we've got full size mills for the more hefty work? I think everyone is just excited at the chance at pcbs. If we need a vacuum table and to dedicate the machine to that, I'm sure that wouldn't be too big of a sell
[00:53:39] <andypugh> A knee-mill layout works fine as long as the bed is flat and parallel to the X ways.
[00:55:09] <cradek> knee mills tend to be part bicycle wheel
[00:55:37] <toastyde1th> agree with bike wheel
[00:56:04] <toastyde1th> there's a reason jig grinders are all gantry or C frame bed machines
[00:59:07] <spamftw> andypugh, was the module you refered to probe2stl
[00:59:11] <andypugh> The Deckel/Aciera/(too long on lathes.co.uk looking for the name) style sliding Y head mills are a lot less forgiving of way divergence, but luckily are all top-class machines
[00:59:34] <L84Supper> what do people do for vias and through holes when cnc routing a two layer PCB?
[00:59:50] <cradek> cry a bit and then try to avoid them
[01:00:10] <toastyde1th> womp womp wommmmp
[01:00:24] <cradek> sometimes solder them manually in a fit of desperation
[01:00:52] <andypugh> L84Supper: Rivlets?
[01:02:29] <spamftw> Alright, I think I'll start here
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ProbeKins. Thanks again for all the help all
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[01:04:00] <andypugh> Yes, well found, that;s the one. Sorry, I was distracted
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[01:04:21] <tjb1> Im home :)
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[01:05:40] <L84Supper> I was just thinking about low tech solutions for the vias, cnc syringe with conductive ink, etc etc
[01:07:05] <L84Supper> conductive plugs + solder paste
[01:07:23] <L84Supper> the way they make them now
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[01:10:57] <andypugh> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/pcb-processing/1603672/ is a rivlet (but discontinued, and spelt rivet)
[01:11:21] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/4XSZG
[01:11:37] <r00t4rd3d> I still need to stain the lettering, letting the first coat of oil dry though.
[01:11:40] <andypugh> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_rivlet
[01:12:35] <andypugh> "Jeffrey L Webster, dead, get over it"
[01:12:51] <r00t4rd3d> I made a coffin :/
[01:13:05] <r00t4rd3d> its for his ashes
[01:13:31] <L84Supper> there are better ways to do this but I was thinking about easy retrofit solutions for cnc pcb routers
[01:13:41] <andypugh> Hmmm, I think I just decided on the words to be scrawled in crayon on my cardboard box.
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[01:14:31] <tjb1> What do those sell for r00t4rd3d ?
[01:14:56] <r00t4rd3d> that one is 125 cause its custom sized
[01:15:02] <tjb1> what size is it
[01:15:08] <r00t4rd3d> their is an engraving on the inside also
[01:15:36] <Tom_itx> L84Supper,
[01:15:39] <Tom_itx> http://au.element14.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1143874
[01:15:41] <r00t4rd3d> the inside needed to be 8 3/4 x 6 3/4 x 4 3/4
[01:15:47] <tjb1> Oh that isnt that big
[01:15:53] <L84Supper> mill the board. drill the holes, and fill with paste and bake vs plate
[01:16:03] <Tom_itx> L84Supper ^^
[01:16:04] <r00t4rd3d> outside is -alot- bigger
[01:16:09] <tjb1> alot?
[01:16:11] <r00t4rd3d> like 12"
[01:16:13] <tjb1> >:(
[01:16:30] <r00t4rd3d> now that i know that word bugs you alot i will use it more often
[01:16:40] <r00t4rd3d> never show your colors
[01:16:43] <tjb1> That knob bugs me a lot too
[01:17:04] <r00t4rd3d> the lady came got it today and gave me my 75 bucks
[01:17:08] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Good find, those are the things.
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[01:17:21] <Tom_itx> i've had that bookmarked a while
[01:17:32] <L84Supper> http://www.saturnelectronics.com/via-plugging.htm
[01:19:31] <L84Supper> http://www2.dupont.com/MCM/en_US/assets/downloads/techpaper/cb100_processing_paper.pdf Process for Plugging Low to High Aspect Ratio Through-Holes with Polymer Thick Film Conductive Ink in Production Volumes
[01:20:31] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d:
http://bit.ly/MWyPSG
[01:21:19] <r00t4rd3d> ?
[01:21:26] <andypugh> Errr, forget that, I have _no_ idea where that link came from
[01:22:17] <r00t4rd3d> what is the link you where trying to show me
[01:22:36] <r00t4rd3d> Andy -
http://pastebin.com/J1UNZffj
[01:22:54] <r00t4rd3d> I tried :(
[01:24:37] <andypugh> I can't figure out how to get the URL I wanted.
[01:25:20] <andypugh> My web browser is too clever
[01:25:39] <r00t4rd3d> thats a mac 4u
[01:25:59] <andypugh> Try
http://www.google.com/search?q=alot&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1806&bih=1096&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=EpWIUPysHoqa0QWw1oHgBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDEQsAQ
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[01:52:33] <tjb1> Anyone good with java take a look at this and tell me what I need to do to get it to work...
[01:52:34] <tjb1> http://pastebin.com/hjQKXkNH
[01:56:09] <jdh> style or syntax?
[01:57:18] <jdh> return if?
[02:09:38] <tjb1> Yeah fixed that now im having a new problem
[02:10:09] <tjb1> http://pastebin.com/QSpqMath
[02:10:19] <tjb1> That is the class which I believe is fixed now at the end
[02:10:38] <tjb1> But using this to test it -
http://pastebin.com/6QGn13x1 - returns 0
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[02:13:13] <tjb1> Something wrong in those if statements :(
[02:15:24] <jdh> I see nothing calling shippingCharge()
[02:15:34] <tjb1> In which?
[02:16:10] <jdh> oh, in the println... nevemrind.
[02:16:48] <tjb1> Its not doing the if statements :(
[02:17:40] <jdh> I've done one java program in my life. Didn't much care for it.
[02:17:53] <jdh> but, it was pretty cool to have it running on my phone.
[02:19:52] <tjb1> I hate java...
[02:33:03] <pcw_home> I love java, sweet and hot, Whoops! Mr. Moto, I'm a coffee pot
[02:34:06] <jdh> java is jive
[02:42:09] <tjb1> Is there a way to watch a probe as a limit during a non probing move?
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[03:19:30] <tjb1> Tom_itx:
[03:29:55] <tjb1> Anyone?
[03:31:04] <jdh> no.
[03:31:16] <tjb1> No what? :P
[03:33:36] <jdh> no, you can't.
[03:34:10] <tjb1> Im sure there is a way…its just more involved than anything I would like to do
[03:34:33] <jdh> if you have a probe and it goes off during a none probe move, it whines
[03:34:34] <FinboySlick> tjb1: Well, you could put it in series with your limit switches.
[03:34:49] <tjb1> FinboySlick: but then it would trip a limit when probing
[03:34:55] <jdh> if you did that and probed, you would trip
[03:35:12] <FinboySlick> I probably misunderstood what you meant then.
[03:35:32] <tjb1> If the switch is tripped when not probing, i want it to act as a limit
[03:35:49] <tjb1> I could make the g38 set an output to switch which input that sensor goes to
[03:36:12] <tjb1> g38 active, it sends that sensor to input 2, g38 inactive and that sensor goes to input1
[03:36:38] <jdh> I think it will stop if the probe trips during a non-probe move.
[03:36:44] <jdh> but, it might just whine
[03:36:51] <tjb1> No it just throws a little message
[03:37:17] <tjb1> I like the relay idea…dirty though
[03:38:24] <jdh> control.c:404: reportError(_("Probe tripped during non-probe MDI command."));
[03:38:32] <jdh> change that
[03:38:37] <tjb1> Where is that...
[03:38:54] <jdh> control.c
[03:39:05] <tjb1> gotta be more specific than that :)
[03:39:37] <tjb1> Or do you mean press control-c
[03:39:53] <tjb1> Well I guess that is copy on linux/windows...nevermind
[03:40:36] <jdh> it's in the source code. snag a copy, edit, rebuild everything
[03:41:13] <jdh> someday, I'll make a probe.
[03:41:17] <jdh> and all the other stuff
[03:42:18] <jdh> put in a throw switch. one way is probe, other is limit
[03:42:27] <jdh> s/throw/double throw/
[03:42:54] <tjb1> Ill just do a relay
[03:42:56] <tjb1> :)
[03:43:23] <tjb1> It probes every time it pierces so I dont want to sit there and switch it on and off all the time
[03:44:58] <jdh> wonder if you could just do it in HAL
[03:45:26] <jdh> probably with two ands
[03:46:13] <jdh> input and probing tied to probe input, input and notprobing tied to limit
[03:46:31] <jdh> and an mcode to setp probing
[03:48:48] <tjb1> can you use if statements in hal?
[03:50:02] <jdh> not that I know of, but that doesn't mean much.
[03:50:31] <jdh> you don't need to use an if if you just make the probe signal from an AND component
[03:51:23] <jdh> man and2
[03:51:38] <tjb1> and component
[03:51:39] <tjb1> ?
[03:51:50] <jdh> and2... type man and2
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[03:51:59] <tjb1> im not on linux
[03:52:12] <tjb1> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/and2.9.html
[03:52:15] <jdh> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CCQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Flinuxcnc.org%2Fdocs%2Fhtml%2Fman%2Fman9%2Fand2.9.html&ei=XreIUO_WB4qA9gSBg4DYAg&usg=AFQjCNHA8yY9LSbT2eWnVH_LAR62SV2AFA
[03:52:20] <jdh> heh, or that.
[03:54:30] <tjb1> net torch-probe motion.probe-input <= parport.0.pin-11-in-not
[03:54:44] <tjb1> That is my probing input
[03:57:20] <tjb1> Is the N the pin name?
[03:57:46] <jdh> what N?
[03:58:00] <tjb1> and2.N.in0 bit in
[03:58:11] <jdh> oh, it is the instance of the and2
[03:58:36] <tjb1> Can you give example
[03:58:41] <jdh> if you loadrd and2 count=2, you will have a and2.0... and and2.1...
[03:59:31] <tjb1> count 3 would make 2.0, 2.1, 2.2
[03:59:42] <tjb1> then 2.3 would be the out bit?
[03:59:44] <jdh> and2.0, and2.1, and2.2
[04:00:05] <jdh> for the first one, the two inputs would go to and2.0.in0 and and2.0.in1
[04:00:16] <jdh> and when both became true, and2.0.out would be true
[04:00:42] <tjb1> Is this correct "and2.0.torch-probe"
[04:00:47] <jdh> no
[04:00:55] <tjb1> Of course not :)
[04:01:08] <jdh> it is just and2.0.[in0,in1,out]
[04:01:31] <tjb1> So where would I put the input pins?
[04:01:35] <tjb1> or name them?
[04:01:43] <jdh> you have to net your pport pin to .in0, then net your probing pin to and2.0.in1
[04:02:25] <jdh> then when you setp your probing pin, and the probe goes off, that and2.0.out becomes true
[04:02:40] <jdh> another and2 would do the same for the limit
[04:03:56] <tjb1> Can you give me an example of tying the probe to it?
[04:03:59] <jdh> no
[04:04:12] <tjb1> :/
[04:04:12] <jdh> but, you could ask someoen with a clue when they show up.
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[04:05:46] <tjb1> Well until then im just going to activate an output before the probe and then deactivate it after the probe is done
[04:06:33] <jdh> extra hardware, but I could make that work!
[04:10:37] <tjb1> you know how to set that up?
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[07:09:56] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[07:10:47] <Jymmm> mornin
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[09:00:16] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[11:55:10] <r00t4rd3d> JT-Shop, TADA!
[11:55:22] <r00t4rd3d> sorta
[11:55:43] <jthornton> he ain't out there yet
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[11:56:08] <r00t4rd3d> err where ever you are
[12:01:23] <tjb1> Too early for this r00t4rd3d
[12:02:52] <alex_joni> morning r00t4rd3d
[12:04:19] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[12:04:22] <r00t4rd3d> looks good
[12:05:58] <tjb1> I went from cnczone to a spud gun website to an obituary…I hate the internet
[12:08:00] <tjb1> Now im on like a german death metal band site because I looked up obituary in google :/
[12:08:10] <r00t4rd3d> Has the Karma and Thank You always been on the forums?
[12:09:12] <tjb1> cnczone?
[12:09:56] <r00t4rd3d> no linuxcnc
[12:11:08] <tjb1> Off to pick up my metal
[12:11:23] <r00t4rd3d> shouldnt you be in school?
[12:11:26] <jthornton> the karma has
[12:12:48] <tjb1> No r00t4rd3d, I only have school twice a week...
[12:13:19] <r00t4rd3d> Ahh the cuts to the special education funding
[12:13:24] <r00t4rd3d> bummer
[12:13:53] <tjb1> Says the one that put a 1" knob on a box 4" wide :)
[12:14:04] <r00t4rd3d> 7 3/4 inch wide
[12:14:15] <tjb1> Yeah I said 4" wide
[12:14:31] * r00t4rd3d rubs the 75 bucks in his pocket
[12:14:49] <tjb1> Are you sure thats the 75 bucks?
[12:15:02] <r00t4rd3d> maybe its my 1" knob
[12:15:20] <tjb1> That only fits 4" wide boxes?
[12:15:50] <r00t4rd3d> I just finished another box last night
[12:16:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/4XSZG
[12:16:43] <tjb1> Yeah I seen it last night
[12:16:51] <r00t4rd3d> looks different now, I stained the letters.
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[12:17:12] <tjb1> So why do you show me the same picture as last night?
[12:17:25] <r00t4rd3d> cause i havent taken new ones yet
[12:17:31] <r00t4rd3d> waiting for the sun to come out
[12:17:32] <tjb1> Well get to work...
[12:17:36] <tjb1> Suns up here
[12:18:31] <tjb1> im out.
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[12:59:16] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch4TjB4UxDA&feature=plcp
[13:00:12] <r00t4rd3d> how dare you post that here
[13:02:23] <skunkworks> eh - it is my reality tv...
[13:03:08] <r00t4rd3d> watching that dial made me dizzy
[13:04:49] <r00t4rd3d> your buddies come over and drink coffee and watch you play with your machines?
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[13:07:09] <r00t4rd3d> alex_joni, the only thing I see that isnt working is the statistics on the bottom of the index
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[13:08:46] <r00t4rd3d> not that it is a big deal
[13:09:58] <alex_joni> if you click on more statistics it works
[13:10:09] <alex_joni> I'll look into it r00t4rd3d
[13:10:13] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i noticed that
[13:10:28] <r00t4rd3d> it might take time to update maybe too?
[13:11:02] <r00t4rd3d> i would check if there is a refresh setting or when/how it updates
[13:20:31] <alex_joni> hmm.. linuxcnc.org just crapped out on me
[13:20:42] <r00t4rd3d> n1
[13:20:42] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[13:20:52] <alex_joni> still working for anyone?
[13:20:59] <r00t4rd3d> nope
[13:22:17] <r00t4rd3d> internal server error
[13:25:16] <alex_joni> ok, stop reloading for a bit if possible
[13:25:56] <r00t4rd3d> you updating everything?
[13:26:16] <alex_joni> there was an option which said: enable general statistics
[13:26:27] <alex_joni> set to no, I flipped it, and it started 500'ing
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[13:27:18] <r00t4rd3d> overload
[13:28:47] <alex_joni> but it wasn't from me
[13:28:52] <alex_joni> now it works for me
[13:29:03] <alex_joni> showing stats and all
[13:29:04] <r00t4rd3d> me2
[13:29:15] <alex_joni> ok.. I'll leave it at that
[13:29:20] <r00t4rd3d> stats are up too
[13:29:40] <r00t4rd3d> while querying the database to update the stats it probably shut everything down
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[13:32:35] <r00t4rd3d> is it normal for 78 people to be online?
[13:33:47] <alex_joni> r00t4rd3d: no, but they requested it ;)
[13:34:05] <alex_joni> it's mostly lost sessions.. the 15min timeout was too small
[13:34:10] <alex_joni> it's set to 24h or so now
[13:34:12] <r00t4rd3d> Total users online: 79 Members and 34111 Guests Online
[13:34:38] <alex_joni> I doubt there are 34k guests online
[13:34:45] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[13:35:04] <r00t4rd3d> they were all just waiting for a forum update :D
[13:35:41] <jdh> 34,109 of them are waiting to spam
[13:36:07] <r00t4rd3d> maybe its not so easy for them to register now
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[13:48:28] <jdh> anyone made a raspberry pi case?
[13:50:43] <mk0> someone yes
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[13:52:04] <mk0> i saw info at someones nick "raspberry pi user"
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[13:52:46] <jdh> I've seen lots of stuff for printing them. I'd like to make a pocketed one
[13:54:30] <alex_joni> there's a lego case for rasps
[13:56:58] <jdh> need something a little more robust than that.
[13:57:01] <r00t4rd3d> finished :
http://imgur.com/a/2oCcE
[13:57:20] <jdh> did you mean to misspell that?
[13:58:28] <jdh> I'm going to take friday off and try to make one of those. If my booster doesn't show up.
[13:59:24] <r00t4rd3d> misspell what?
[13:59:41] <jdh> just kidding :)
[13:59:51] <jdh> looks nice.
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[14:16:44] <r00t4rd3d> make and example and find a school teacher to bring it in and they will sell like hot cakes
[14:16:52] <r00t4rd3d> make a *
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[14:24:37] <JT-Shop> awallin: mind if I ad your pid page to
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Tutorials
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[14:33:23] <jdh> I don't want to sell anything
[14:34:13] <jdh> r00t: is the darker part of the letters just from the depths, or burning, or grain or what?
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[14:38:36] <r00t4rd3d> stain
[14:39:04] <r00t4rd3d> i use a brush and paint the cuts with gel stain then wipe off the top
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[14:41:28] <r00t4rd3d> after the stain dries you can sand it right back down to the wood if you want and it will make the lettering really dark
[14:49:26] <L84Supper> I currently see no evidence of "hotcakes" selling in high volumes :)
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[14:50:01] <archivist> I prefer free cakes to buying
[14:50:53] <archivist> said while eating cake from a neighbour
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[14:55:56] <L84Supper> http://www.thingiverse.com/tag:Raspberry_Pi
[14:57:24] <L84Supper> better ones here
http://venturebeat.com/2012/07/16/9-amazing-raspberry-pi-case-mods-including-one-that-looks-like-a-raspberry/
[15:01:40] <cncbasher> setting a bias offset for zero point for vfd is this correct ... pwmgen.scale 100 pwmgen.value 45.0 and pwmgen offset 50.0
[15:01:52] <cncbasher> is their anything iv'e missed ?
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[15:08:48] <jdh> http://www.adafruit.com/products/922
[15:09:03] <elmo40> kinda tiny
[15:09:28] <jdh> yeah, I hear that a lot :(
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[15:09:53] <elmo40> lol
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[15:30:42] <L84Supper> jdh, those work well, we have been using them for over a year, they are much lower cost by other sellers
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[15:33:26] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJzjrFRwouQ
[15:33:36] <jdh> I was looking for a little Pi monitor and saw those. I don't think I'll need a kb though
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[15:38:03] <L84Supper> jdh: mini HDMI monitor or?
[15:38:46] <jdh> http://www.amazon.com/Camera-Monitor-Support-Rotating-Screen/dp/B007SLDF7O
[15:38:56] <jdh> I just ordered one of those. Hopefully sufficient
[15:39:23] <L84Supper> you'll see an image :)
[15:39:45] <jdh> I want to disply 4 numbers. A graph woudl be nice also, but not required.
[15:40:16] <jdh> I was going to use a 4x20 lcd, but figured I'd try graphical first.
[15:41:47] <L84Supper> the selection on Amazon has improved, 3.5" lcd's for $18, 4.3" for $24
[15:42:15] <jdh> yeah, I thought about those. 4.3 might fit better, but was hoping the 7" would be more readable
[15:42:47] <jdh> and just tap for ctrl anyway
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[16:41:04] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[16:55:13] <awallin> JT-Shop: sure go ahead and link to my page from the wiki. If I do another tuning-session with a new machine at some point maybe I should document that a bit better, could go into the manual..
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[16:56:00] <JT-Shop> ok thanks
[16:59:44] <Jymmm> http://www.wimp.com/sleepingdogs/
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[17:02:46] <Connor> Do you think it's possible, or has anyone here ever made a spiral tap from a drill bit? Was thinking you cool anneal it, run a die down it.. maybe, or cut the threads on a lathe.. and the re-harden it..
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[17:14:52] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You ever repair/patch a roof?
[17:22:47] <WalterN> Connor: they make grinding wheels to attach to manual lathes for putting in threads in hard things
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[17:30:37] <jthornton> Jymmm, many times
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[17:32:24] <Jymmm> jthornton: WTh is the difference in all these roofing coatings?! Can't make heads or tails of them. trying to just coat a leaking ashphalt tile roof
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[17:32:47] <jthornton> I'm a single man
[17:32:51] <jthornton> shingle
[17:32:55] <Jymmm> jthornton: apx 550 sq ft
[17:33:28] <Jymmm> jthornton: Were not replacing the roof, just gooing it up
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[17:34:15] <Jymmm> http://www.gardner-gibson.com/
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[17:35:30] <jthornton> I'm a shingle man
[17:35:38] <Jymmm> jthornton: Someone told us about "Henry's Wet Patch" (home depot), but they got sneaky and quoted coverage based on 5gal, even though they sell 3.5gal buckets.
[17:35:47] <Jymmm> jthornton: and you never patch a roof?
[17:35:59] <jthornton> with shingles yes many times
[17:36:27] <Jymmm> and around flashing and roof vents?
[17:36:29] <jthornton> remove bad shingles replace with new ones
[17:36:42] <jthornton> I use the black tar stuff in a tube
[17:37:00] <jthornton> but I hear tell they have a better more expensive version of it now
[17:37:53] <Jymmm> k
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[17:45:26] <JT-Shop> do you know where it is leaking at?
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[17:52:41] <Jymmm> No, just in about 10 places in one room
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[18:01:03] <jthornton> it could be coming from one place and the water can run under the shingles till it hits a hole and then drop
[18:01:20] <jthornton> if you can see in the attic where the water is dripping from it usually points to the leak
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[18:29:36] <Jymmm> jthornton: Yeah, no attic/crawlspace, just a flat pitched roof.
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[18:34:19] <archivist> flat OR pitched decide which
[18:38:46] <Jymmm> I guess it's called a gable roof
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[18:41:53] <archivist> sloped like
http://archivist.info/herron/img/CNV00005b.JPG
[18:42:10] <Jymmm> yeah
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[18:43:00] <archivist> because flat is a can of worms that needs sealing, gable is a lot easier to fix
[18:44:31] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: is it a rubber flat roof?
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[18:45:55] <Jymmm> rolled out asphalt
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[18:50:40] <archivist> replace/recover if cracked
[18:52:58] <archivist> isnt the place rented?, scream at the landlord
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[19:04:17] <Jymmm> archivist: Have been for the last few years; doing the repair and deduct from rent route.
[19:04:28] <Jymmm> (again)
[19:07:14] <Tom_itx> the ll is good with that?
[19:08:26] <Jymmm> Calif Law
[19:08:51] <Tom_itx> huh
[19:09:13] <Tom_itx> to you get top wages for that?
[19:09:26] <jdh> anybody need some high presssure regulators? I bought too many and they are not so great for my application.
[19:09:46] <Tom_itx> how high?
[19:10:14] <jdh> 0-6000 in and out
[19:10:43] <jdh> I need 145 max out. That's barely on for these regs.
[19:11:00] <Tom_itx> oh for skuba gear?
[19:11:10] <jdh> indirectly
[19:11:36] <jdh> I bought a gas booster that uses 145psi max input for drive gas.
[19:11:37] <Tom_itx> not me
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[19:12:33] <jdh> I would repair things for my landlord, if they paid my usual and customary hourly rate for the repair.
[19:12:51] <jdh> but, if they did that, they would be too stupid to rent from.
[19:19:37] <cncbasher> could someone put me rigiht on setting up pwm bias on a 5i20 see
http://pastebin.com/s8TxixKN
[19:20:29] <cncbasher> i dont appear to have the offset command correct as it giving me an error
[19:23:31] <PCW> There is no offset AFAIK
[19:25:00] <PCW> if you want 50% = 0 PWM you need to add an offset to the PID value (maybe with the scale comp)
[19:25:33] <PCW> ow PWM value I shouldl say
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[19:52:19] <Jymmm> When it come grades of stainless, say 304, is it's temper implied, or is that an additional spec on top?
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[19:55:49] <WalterN> does it even matter for 300 series stainless?
[19:56:12] <andypugh> It's an additional spec on top
[19:56:25] <Jymmm> For my application, yes. I've gone through a few grades of SS so far.
[19:56:33] <Jymmm> andypugh: ok, thanks.
[19:56:52] <andypugh> WalterN: Yes, full-hard straight from the cold rolling mill is a lot stronger than anealed.
[19:57:08] <Jymmm> andypugh: so like 304-2b FH ?
[19:57:25] <andypugh> I am not _entirely_ sure how you specifiy the temper.
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[19:57:40] <andypugh> (When this mattered to me I had my own little cold rolling mill)
[19:57:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: np, I'll see what I can find out.
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[20:01:33] <Tom_itx> http://www.precisionsteel.com/technical-data/tempers/stainless-steel
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[20:03:18] <Jymmm> Ok, by that chart I think I need FH
[20:05:23] <Tom_itx> http://www.mastainless.com/tempered
[20:07:40] <tjb1> Hey, is there a way to treat a probe as a limit when not probing? An easy way? jdh suggested using and2
[20:15:34] <andypugh> Jymmm: I seem to recall we calculated you needed 180000psi, but 200,000 wouldn't hurt
[20:16:05] <andypugh> tjb1: Possibly or2, rather than and2
[20:16:37] <tjb1> I think jdh was thinking probe and input high = probe, probe low and input high = limit
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[20:27:49] <andypugh> You can probably use the "logic" HAL function to give you both the OR and AND outputs.
[20:29:14] <andypugh> PCW: Do you think that Mesaflash (micges's thing, I think) should be included in the LinuxCNC source?
[20:29:24] <PCW> Yes
[20:29:47] <PCW> but he has the latest source
[20:30:56] <PCW> or maybe in the firmware bundle
[20:31:57] <andypugh> Hmm, yes, maybe it lives in /lib/firmware/hm2/5i25...
[20:32:06] <andypugh> The executable at least.
[20:32:08] <PCW> latest version can flash the 7I80 over Ethernet
[20:32:45] <PCW> and the 6I25 including 6I25 recovery mode
[20:33:30] <PCW> so its more generic than just 5I25
[20:35:25] <PCW> lib/firmware/hm2/tools?
[20:35:49] <andypugh> Possibly. There may be rules though.
[20:36:21] <PCW> I think there are RPO and WPO included with mesaflash there as well
[20:36:39] <andypugh> RPO and WPO?
[20:37:58] <PCW> direct register read and write utilities for hardware debugging
[20:38:33] <PCW> Read with Pci Offset
[20:38:35] <PCW> Write with Pci Offset
[20:39:20] <andypugh> OK. Not directly useful to tonights task then.
[20:39:39] <PCW> RPO 6800
[20:39:41] <PCW> WPO 1204 00AACC33
[20:39:50] <andypugh> Just wanted to check prior to any wheel-reinventing
[20:40:30] <PCW> mesaflash is _interesting_ as the source is Linux and Windows compatible
[20:41:10] <andypugh> That's just showing off, that is.
[20:41:37] <PCW> Micges did a good job
[20:42:50] <PCW> I dont think there are any major side effects to upper level code
[20:43:30] <PCW> just the low level hardware/network access
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[20:52:40] <jdh> I was thinking probeflag&&input to probe, ~probeflag&&input to limit
[20:53:00] <jdh> but now I'm thinking about going home.
[21:00:07] <mrsun> hmm unsupported 25mm axle, how long do you think that could be before it flexes to much for routing wood ?
[21:01:07] <tjb1> where at?
[21:01:18] <tjb1> Where the gantry rides or for the z axis?
[21:02:20] <mrsun> say for a X axis of a router
[21:02:27] <mrsun> if the Z axis is in the middle of it
[21:02:40] <mrsun> i have no references to how stiff 25mm axles are =)
[21:03:06] <andypugh> How long is it?
[21:03:07] <mrsun> http://hackedgadgets.com/wp-content/2/Fireball_V90_CNC_Router_Assembly/Fireball_V90_CNC_Router_Assembly_794.JPG like that for example
[21:03:21] <mrsun> andypugh, that is waht im asking, how long would it be able to be not be a problem =)
[21:03:29] <mrsun> (dual axle ofc) but still
[21:03:42] <mrsun> preferablly i would like about 120cm travel
[21:03:50] <mrsun> so it would have to be like 140cm long
[21:05:33] <andypugh> http://www.engineeringcalculator.net/cross_section_properties.html and shoose the circle
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[21:06:08] <mrsun> hmm nvm, its almost as cheap to buy the supported rails compared to buying just axles :P
[21:08:05] <andypugh> But
http://www.engineeringcalculator.net/beam_calculator.html is really nice
[21:08:22] <mrsun> that first link doesnt work to well in chrome :/
[21:08:41] <andypugh> And you only need the E for steel (200 GPA) and the I for the shape
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[21:08:57] <andypugh> I am not sure the first link works at all.
[21:10:27] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:22:18] <mrsun> 3700 sek for supported rails + bearing blocks from germany for a 120x120cm router
[21:23:27] <mrsun> ofc ordering from china i would get ballscrews also :P
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[22:25:18] <jthornton> anyone here not registered on the forum?
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[22:31:21] <andypugh> You need a guinea pig?
[22:32:07] <JT-Shop> yea
[22:33:20] <JT-Shop> andypugh: have you seen any spammers today try and register?
[22:33:27] <andypugh> Hundreds
[22:33:56] <JT-Shop> I must be looking right after you delete them
[22:34:31] <andypugh> Or they were a backlog
[22:34:35] <JT-Shop> well since afternoon your time
[22:35:01] <andypugh> A few, I think.
[22:35:13] <andypugh> I just approved a real person
[22:37:51] <JT-Shop> did he confirm?
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[22:41:19] <andypugh> Ah, no.
[22:41:41] <Tom_itx> zlog
[22:41:41] <zlog> Tom_itx: Log stored at
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2012-10-25.html
[22:42:50] <Tom_itx> i don't think i am
[22:43:00] <andypugh> There is at least one new guy not in the Unconfirmed list.
[22:43:45] <JT-Shop> wow 11 unconfirmed
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[22:44:39] <andypugh> Some have been there weeks
[22:44:57] <andypugh> (I re-sent confirmations already)
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[22:49:33] <JT-Shop> lol so did I
[22:50:49] <andypugh> I sometimes email direct too. We can manually confirm them.
[22:52:44] <JT-Shop> looks like Sterling is making progress using 8.04
[22:56:15] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yeah, I just didn't associate the 180000 to "Full Hard"
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[23:15:13] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: you ever register on the forum?
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[23:18:45] <andypugh> He did
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[23:22:29] <JT-Shop> must be working ok I just saw a chap from down under register and confirm
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[23:28:56] <r00t4rd3d> do router bits like this do well in cnc machines?
[23:28:58] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.precisionbits.com/images/thumbnails/0/800/600/14152.jpg
[23:29:01] <r00t4rd3d> for cutting wood?
[23:29:04] <JT-Shop> crap, I need to expand my shop
[23:29:25] <jdh> build a new shop!
[23:29:44] <PCW> already?
[23:29:55] <Tom_itx> already!?
[23:29:56] <Tom_itx> heh
[23:31:29] <JT-Shop> I just brought my D plotter home and I'm getting cramped now
[23:33:51] <r00t4rd3d> Box I finished today:
http://imgur.com/a/2oCcE
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[23:34:31] <JT-Shop> nice tapered sides
[23:35:40] <r00t4rd3d> bought to go start another one
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