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[00:00:21] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlQEgcGiN2Q
[00:00:52] <JT-Shop> need some lube
[00:02:35] <skunkworks__> dad has a set of them.. (or similar) they really are neat. Thread a dowel in 2.2
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[00:04:45] <andypugh> Cool! Indexable wood chisels :-)
http://www.garrettwade.com/innovator-chisels-with-interchangeable-cutters/p/20S02.11/
[00:06:48] <pfred1> I'm in pretty good shape in the chisel department I still want about a 3 foot slick though
[00:07:20] <andypugh> Do you have a shoulder plane? They are extremely useful, once you have one.
[00:07:20] <pfred1> I have a few foot long ones i don't have a really big oar sized one yet
[00:07:28] <pfred1> a few
[00:07:51] <pfred1> I'm fairly set in the plane department too I could use a bullnosed
[00:08:24] <pfred1> I tried to take a picture of all of my planes once but I forgot to empty two drawers
[00:08:55] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/shZvn.jpg
[00:09:15] <pfred1> so that isn't quite all of them
[00:09:29] <andypugh> I don't see a shouldr plane there...
[00:09:41] <pfred1> the black ones on the ends
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[00:10:58] <andypugh> I know them as rebate planes.
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[00:11:26] <andypugh> http://www.inthewoodshop.com/furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_5942afc5.jpg
[00:11:32] <pfred1> well there is a carrige plane in the second row
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[00:12:00] <pfred1> off on the right hand side
[00:12:27] <andypugh> I see it now. Again, not what I was meaning
[00:14:02] <pfred1> andypugh yes the planes i have do what is being done in that picture they are just different styles
[00:14:34] <pfred1> they cut up to the edge
[00:16:29] <pfred1> oh and a word to the wise never cut square dog holes into a bench
[00:16:41] <pfred1> round is superior in so many ways
[00:26:38] <Valen> why put hss cutters in it?
[00:26:43] <Valen> put carbide in
[00:26:51] <Valen> last heaps longer
[00:28:03] <skunkworks__> JT-Shop:
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/56151-cnc-computer-problem
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[00:31:48] <andypugh> The HSS ones are re-sharpenable.
[00:31:59] <andypugh> (By woodworkers)
[00:32:02] <Valen> you can grind carbide
[00:32:09] <Valen> just takes longer ;->
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[00:37:24] <skunkworks__> depends on the wheel.. Even the cheap diamond coated dremel style bits work for 'adjusting carbide'
[00:38:36] <andypugh> Why carbide, why not diamond chisels?
[00:40:00] <toastydeath> diamond is brittle
[00:40:03] <PCW> I think carbide it not sharp enough for good wood work
[00:40:22] <jthornton> the polished ones for aluminum work
[00:40:30] <PCW> ok for sandpaper type woodwork
[00:40:33] <toastydeath> carbide sharpening isn't hard but most people don't realize it has to be done differently than hss
[00:41:25] <pfred1> carbide never gets as sharp as HSS does
[00:41:30] <PCW> ok for scrapers, not for cutters
[00:41:48] <PCW> yep just too dull
[00:41:51] <pfred1> carbide simply cannot take the same edge
[00:42:10] <pfred1> holds what it takes longer but simply does not hone as fine
[00:42:16] <toastydeath> you don't hone carbide sharp
[00:42:18] <toastydeath> you lap it sharp
[00:42:26] <PCW> still no good
[00:42:34] <pfred1> I don't care what you do with carbide it cannot get as sharp as HSS can
[00:42:36] <toastydeath> and it does take just as good of an edge as hss, and i've seen he micrography of it
[00:42:41] <toastydeath> *the
[00:42:57] <PCW> not for cutting wood
[00:43:06] <pfred1> and when you are working wood you don't usually need carbide hard
[00:43:07] <toastydeath> just because someone cannot sharpen it properly doesn't mean the material isn't capable of it
[00:44:00] <pfred1> there are different grades of carbide to be sure but I've never heard of any that compares to HSS for sharpness
[00:44:06] <PCW> nothing to do with sharpening carbide will not hold and edge when acute enough for wood cutting
[00:44:27] <toastydeath> you seem to be confusing a whole shitload of terms
[00:44:48] <toastydeath> edge sharpness is a radius between the two intersecting planes that form the edge
[00:44:57] <PCW> you seem to know nothing about wood working
[00:44:59] <toastydeath> edge sharpness cannot be acute
[00:45:08] <toastydeath> i'm not saying anything about woodworking
[00:45:16] <pfred1> well we are
[00:45:18] <toastydeath> i'm merely correcting wrong information about edge sharpness
[00:45:41] <toastydeath> whether or not it's suitable for any given task for any percieved reason (or lack of skill, as i strongly suspect in this case) is irrelevant to what words actually mean
[00:46:23] <pfred1> carbide is used in woodworking with power tools because carbide can maintain its edge longer than HSS can
[00:46:55] <pfred1> but no one wants carbide hand tools
[00:47:03] * jthornton got a Gtk textview to work in python
[00:47:56] <toastydeath> carbides that can take a smaller edge radius are fragile, so it makes sense to not use them in a hand tool.
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[00:49:03] <pfred1> steel has carbide in it
[00:49:18] <toastydeath> yes it does.
[00:49:50] <andypugh> Not always :-)
[00:49:59] <pfred1> andypugh typically
[00:50:15] <toastydeath> and the sharpest possible known materials, ceramics, are horrible for almost all cutting tasks, but they're still the sharpest
[00:50:15] <pfred1> I suppose i should have said steel commonly has carbide in it
[00:50:56] <andypugh> I was being really pedantic, I admit. Most steels containno carbide above 800C :-)
[00:51:21] <pfred1> toastydeath I guess cave men had an edge over us
[00:51:31] <toastydeath> badum psh terrible pun
[00:51:34] <andypugh> toastydeath:
http://www.xkcd.com/1114/
[00:51:59] <pfred1> toastydeath I don't mean to be obsidian
[00:52:28] <toastydeath> not any ceramic, just like steels and carbide there are some ceramics whose grain structure allows for a smaller edge radius
[00:52:55] <toastydeath> and just like steels and carbides there are some that are horrid at holding any sort of edge
[00:52:55] <pfred1> well i like my steel
[00:53:35] <jdh> all the steels in all my knives are terrible at holding an edge.
[00:53:46] <jdh> or, I'm terrible at putting an edge on them.
[00:53:51] <pfred1> I like solingen steel
[00:54:02] <pfred1> just something about the stuff
[00:54:16] <pfred1> man I can give solingen steel a wicked edge
[00:55:16] <pfred1> jdh sometimes you can bend a feather edge over and that dulls a blade do you strop your blades after yo uwharpen them?
[00:55:28] <pfred1> jdh sometimes you can bend a feather edge over and that dulls a blade do you strop your blades after you sharpen them?
[00:55:37] <jdh> no.
[00:55:52] <pfred1> I've found after a good stropping that and edge can stay sharper for much longer
[00:56:03] <pfred1> you should try it
[00:56:08] <jdh> I'm not sure 'sharpen' is that accurate for what I do.
[00:56:13] <pfred1> I rouge charge my leather
[00:56:38] <toastydeath> +1
[00:56:52] <pfred1> my system today I rough with diamond hones then move to medium then hard arkansas stones then strop
[00:57:12] <pfred1> I have jap water stones too but I only use those for my thickness planer blades
[00:57:51] <pfred1> sometimes I rebevel stuff too
[00:58:26] <pfred1> beveling can make a big difference with some tools
[00:59:02] <pfred1> like i prefer plane blades beveled it seems to cut down on friction
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[01:53:18] <Valen> we use carbide end mills on our timber it seems to work well ;->
[01:53:33] <Valen> bog standard metal cutting ones lol
[01:53:51] <r00t4rd3d> fred where you been anyway?
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[01:56:22] <r00t4rd3d> Gabe_W
[01:56:38] <r00t4rd3d> Gabe_W
[01:56:39] <r00t4rd3d> Gabe_W
[01:56:39] <r00t4rd3d> Gabe_W
[02:00:20] <ReadError> http://vimeo.com/50797383
[02:00:27] <ReadError> vidjah i made today
[02:04:34] <r00t4rd3d> cookie monster porn?
[02:05:15] <ReadError> lol
[02:05:23] <r00t4rd3d> the music dude.....
[02:05:33] <ReadError> lol
[02:05:39] <ReadError> thats some crptex
[02:05:46] <ReadError> cryptex
[02:05:47] <ReadError> or w/e
[02:05:53] <r00t4rd3d> craptex
[02:06:00] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/Wq4kC.jpg
[02:07:17] <ReadError> lolwut
[02:09:13] <r00t4rd3d> secret apple message
[02:13:52] <r00t4rd3d> what i cut today:
http://i.imgur.com/AwsUz.jpg
[02:14:35] <ReadError> oooo
[02:14:39] <ReadError> fancy
[02:15:24] <r00t4rd3d> does it remind you of your gf?
[02:15:31] <ReadError> lol
[02:15:35] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[02:15:59] <r00t4rd3d> you got that too guick
[02:16:03] <r00t4rd3d> erre quick
[02:16:06] <ReadError> nah it makes me wish i had a sweet moose beard
[02:16:25] <Jymmm> http://i42.tinypic.com/kdr9g4.jpg
[02:16:41] <r00t4rd3d> pocket?
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[02:57:35] <toastydeath> So, question that's actually on topic
[02:57:45] <toastydeath> servos; how good are they at holding large forces static?
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[02:59:17] <toastydeath> say I want to be able to appy a half ton force
[02:59:23] <toastydeath> how big of a servo is that?
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[03:09:07] <Valen> depends on what your doing
[03:09:21] <Valen> servo is a control scheme not any paticular implementation
[03:09:43] <Valen> the turrets and guns on WW2 battleships were moved by hydraulic servos
[03:10:17] <toastydeath> true
[03:10:35] <toastydeath> so here's the application; what I want to do is look at control methods for changing the load on a barbell
[03:10:41] <toastydeath> based on position
[03:10:57] <toastydeath> and my first thought was maybe an electronic servomotor
[03:11:12] <Valen> you mean like a human weighlifter?
[03:11:16] <toastydeath> no, the opposite
[03:11:24] <toastydeath> to pull against a human weightlifter
[03:11:33] <Valen> yeah i mean thats the application
[03:11:35] <toastydeath> yes
[03:12:15] <Valen> from the POV of a gym junkie thats going to be weird
[03:12:25] <toastydeath> not for powerlifters
[03:12:33] <toastydeath> since bands and chains do that the manual way
[03:12:42] <Valen> i spose,
[03:12:48] <toastydeath> for most people, yeah, it doesn't matter
[03:12:56] <toastydeath> for powerlifters, it matters a lot
[03:12:56] <Valen> so cords coming out of the floor basically?
[03:13:00] <toastydeath> yes
[03:13:09] <toastydeath> load the barbell up with weight, and have the cords on the innermost part of the sleeve
[03:13:16] <toastydeath> where a chain or band would go
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[03:13:42] <Valen> are you trying to apply the load (replace the weights) or act as a safety or what?
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[03:13:59] <toastydeath> the idea is to add (and ideally be able to remove) load from the bar dynamically
[03:14:16] <toastydeath> so that as you go down into the range of motion, the load lessens
[03:14:25] <toastydeath> and as you press/stand, the load increases again
[03:15:44] <toastydeath> an extra benefit is that the system then becomes a bar dynamometer
[03:15:50] <toastydeath> which is usually a seperate piece of equipment
[03:16:31] <Valen> the biggest issue you will have is the speed
[03:16:38] <toastydeath> yeah
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[03:17:39] <toastydeath> I was thinking maybe use dumb hydraulic motors
[03:17:55] <toastydeath> and use computer control over the pressure being fed into the motor
[03:18:12] <toastydeath> and then if I needed more speed I could use a bigger motor and a wider drum for the cable
[03:18:13] <Valen> not a bad plan
[03:18:23] <toastydeath> then, if i want to do it both directions
[03:18:24] <Valen> I'd dump the motors and use a cylinder
[03:18:32] <Valen> then the pressure you read = the force directly
[03:18:33] <toastydeath> I'm not sure how to get the cylinder to float naturally
[03:18:51] <Valen> tension sensors on the cable
[03:18:56] <toastydeath> oh, i see what you mean
[03:19:02] <toastydeath> have the cylinder entirely under the floor
[03:19:24] <Valen> or wherever
[03:19:38] <Valen> I'd put it off to the side above the floor, and have a mess of pullys and ropes ;->
[03:19:44] <toastydeath> that could work too
[03:19:46] <Valen> so when something shits itself you can fix it
[03:20:38] <toastydeath> i figure this would do three things; you could do dynamic effort on it easily, the future method easily, and add weight incrementally as long as the major mass was on the bar
[03:20:47] <toastydeath> you could probably add 20-40 lbs without touching the bar
[03:20:58] <toastydeath> and not have it feel drastically different
[03:21:20] <toastydeath> it could also auto-spot if i made the cable looped
[03:21:26] <toastydeath> so that the motor drove it both directions
[03:21:40] <toastydeath> and it mounted to a special 5 lb plate with attachments on the top and bottom
[03:22:09] <Valen> I'd suggest putting a foam sensor type thing on the bar proper, outside the hand grip areas, if you get contact there, then lock the position
[03:22:14] <toastydeath> then things like power training would be safer as you could use the motors like load brakes
[03:22:19] <toastydeath> on fancy squat racks
[03:22:34] <toastydeath> ?
[03:22:42] <toastydeath> oh, that could work
[03:22:48] <Valen> kind of stuff they use to stop automatic doors crushing people
[03:22:57] <toastydeath> i would also set max bar speeds and lowest points
[03:22:57] <Valen> so if you drop it and it hits you it stops
[03:23:00] <toastydeath> to auto raise it
[03:24:58] <toastydeath> although i guess a dead stop is much safer
[03:25:00] <toastydeath> than raising theb ar
[03:25:01] <toastydeath> *bar
[03:25:41] <Valen> if you "weigh" the bar you could do a servo assist mode
[03:25:46] <toastydeath> yeah
[03:25:55] <toastydeath> bar weight will be important for the dynamometer
[03:26:00] <toastydeath> usually it's just entered manually
[03:26:15] <toastydeath> also servo assist is called "future method"
[03:26:27] <Valen> if you have a tension sensor in the cable taking a measurement isn't hard
[03:26:28] <toastydeath> stringing up bands to the top of the rack rather than to the bottom
[03:26:30] <toastydeath> so that it takes weight off
[03:27:08] <toastydeath> it's used for equipped lifting to train lockout without actually putting a squat suit or bench shirt on
[03:27:46] <toastydeath> also yeah, i'm thinking everything will be done from cable tensions + position
[03:28:19] <toastydeath> i'll have a long time to think about this because i won't be able to pursue it for 2-3 years
[03:28:25] <ReadError> or just be a big dog
[03:28:29] <ReadError> and lift like a big dog
[03:28:50] <toastydeath> you're saying the world record lifters are small dogs for using negative bands?
[03:29:34] <ReadError> toastydeath, i used to powerlift
[03:29:36] <ReadError> im j/k'ing
[03:29:41] <toastydeath> lulz
[03:29:57] <toastydeath> why'd you stop
[03:30:06] <ReadError> decided to cut down
[03:30:15] <ReadError> too much work eating all the time
[03:30:33] <toastydeath> eat all the calories
[03:30:55] <ReadError> i actually just finished
[03:30:59] <Valen> I'm just in training for seriously lifting
[03:30:59] <ReadError> 275 incline
[03:31:03] <Valen> yeah thats it
[03:31:03] <ReadError> 315 flat
[03:31:10] <toastydeath> nice
[03:31:15] <Valen> i'm not just fat ;->
[03:31:31] <toastydeath> i am new and on my way in the other direction
[03:31:54] <toastydeath> I am trying to break 400x5 in dead/squat by the end of the year, and trying to get as close to 300x5 for flat
[03:31:56] <ReadError> my maxes where 505 on deadlift and squat
[03:31:59] <ReadError> 405 bench
[03:32:08] <ReadError> rackpull from below knee cap 785
[03:32:09] <toastydeath> after i hit those i'm going to reassess my maxes
[03:32:13] <toastydeath> nice
[03:32:48] <toastydeath> meets seem to be fairly infrequent around here
[03:32:52] <toastydeath> near wash, dc
[03:32:53] <ReadError> but i dropped down alot on that
[03:32:58] <ReadError> mostly do that stuff
[03:33:01] <ReadError> weighted chins
[03:33:07] <ReadError> curls for the gurls, etc
[03:33:53] <toastydeath> i am trying to stay away from curls on principle but i suspect i will resort to them at some point from sheer vanity
[03:34:30] <toastydeath> what's weird is that there are some powerlifting meets that have curls as a contested lift?
[03:34:50] <ReadError> yea
[03:34:54] <ReadError> they are like cheat curls
[03:35:20] <toastydeath> i need to find a video online
[03:35:22] * Valen is actually doing bodybuilding style weights to burn some weight off, never been too successful in building muscle size even when i did heavy weights
[03:35:25] <ReadError> toastydeath, power cleans are good too
[03:35:45] <toastydeath> yeah, I want to really go for both types of lifting in the beginning and see which suits me better
[03:35:53] <toastydeath> i am still too new to be like "and now we focus entirely on powerlifting"
[03:36:25] <toastydeath> current gym doesn't have the space to safely do power cleans most of the time
[03:36:33] <toastydeath> it just moved though, so we'll see
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[05:53:45] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[06:58:03] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[11:06:11] <jthornton> can a bad power supply cause a computer to shut down randomly?
[11:09:48] <Valen> yes
[11:11:44] <jthornton> It just came to me that might be the problem with my dell desktop shutting itself off
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[11:12:02] <jthornton> I'll swap it out and see
[11:12:50] <Valen> bad caps can cause blue screens and other "undefined" behaviour
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[11:13:05] <Valen> does it just "power off" or freeze or something else?
[11:13:41] <jthornton> I'm not sure, I have to press and hold the power button and it seems to boot back up
[11:13:57] <Valen> press and hold to get it to boot?
[11:13:59] <Valen> thats odd
[11:14:03] <Valen> how old?
[11:14:31] <jthornton> I'm not sure but at least ~5-7 years old
[11:15:06] <Valen> yeah, I'd swap the psu and see if that fixes it
[11:15:16] <Valen> throw something like a burnin test at it
[11:15:24] <Valen> thrash the hdd and load the CPU
[11:15:57] * jthornton searches for burnin test
[11:16:11] <Valen> is it windows or linux?
[11:16:53] <jthornton> linux
[11:17:02] <jthornton> ubuntu 10.04
[11:17:03] <Valen> bonnie for the hdd
[11:17:22] <Valen> lol i don't know anything off the top of my head for CPU lol
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[11:18:37] <jthornton> and bonnie is in the synaptic package manager :)
[11:20:08] <Valen> 's why i use it lol
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[11:20:21] <Valen> see if you can cause it to crash
[11:20:26] <Valen> then you know you have fixed it
[11:20:41] <Valen> does it ever have problems booting? thats also often a high load time
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[11:20:54] <jthornton> no, it boots every time
[11:21:14] <Valen> I'd be looking at psu or motherboard caps
[11:21:49] <Valen> http://www.facilitateit.com.au/Capacitors.htm
[11:21:55] <Valen> paticularly around the cpu
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[11:23:39] <jthornton> bonnie does slow this computer down when running lol
[11:23:58] <jthornton> I'll put the caps under the microscope when I change the power supply out
[11:24:17] <Valen> nah you don't need a microscope, just look at them and have a feel
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[11:26:15] <Tom_itx> Valen, that's what she said
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[11:27:00] <Valen> lol
[11:27:28] <jthornton> this computer
http://pastebin.com/LRqF56YS
[11:28:50] <Valen> yeah it doesn't actually test anything, it just writes a bunch of files and changes them
[11:29:02] <Valen> idea being if you could crash the computer
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[11:29:12] <Valen> then you would know when you had fixed it ;->
[11:29:49] <jthornton> gotcha
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[11:31:06] <Loetmichel> na ja, find ich eigentlich gut
[11:31:12] <Loetmichel> sorry, wrong channl
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[11:33:20] <jthornton> hmm Ubuntu has a disk utility built in with benchmark tests
[11:33:47] <Tom_itx> off to the millworks
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[11:47:09] <gmouer> I wonder if G68 / G69 has been looked at further? Cradek discussed it here
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CoordinateSystemRotation
[11:47:29] <gmouer> I think G68 G69 are usually toggles to turn that rotation on and off
[11:48:27] <gmouer> Seems this is how modern controllers handle front/rear turrets on lathes
[11:51:31] <jthornton> so your implying that LinuxCNC is an ancient controller?
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[11:53:02] <gmouer> no, Linuxcnc does darned good keeping up with the new hardware out there as it appears
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[11:59:01] <jthornton> it did read like kindergarten logic...
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[11:59:36] <jthornton> you can implement now in master with remapping
[11:59:48] <jthornton> implement it now
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[12:00:46] <gmouer> G68/G69 is a toggle to the rotation, so it wouldn't be a remap of the G10 rotation function
[12:01:34] <jthornton> remap G68/69
[12:02:30] <gmouer> perhaps, just wondering if anything is already in the works in relation to this
[12:02:55] <jthornton> if it was it would be in master
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[12:03:28] <jthornton> I see G68/69 are available for remapping
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[12:05:11] <gmouer> yes, I seen that too
[12:06:04] <gmouer> I researched quite a bit, that is how I found that coordinate system rotation is the common method for handling front/rear lathe tooling
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[12:25:31] <jthornton> hey Sam
http://imagebin.org/230976
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[12:42:05] * Loetmichel has just smirked over a logitech mouse. seems to be a little light, so the developers have put in soome iron ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13552
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[17:05:59] <IchGuckLive> Hi all B)(
[17:06:11] <IchGuckLive> :D :O
[17:13:04] <IchGuckLive> 2days to go for operation stratos at roswell
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[17:25:39] <IchGuckLive> hi kb8wmc
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[17:29:20] <BHSPiMonkey> not to spam or anything, but any shapeoko owners/fans in here are invited to join us in #shapeoko
[17:29:42] <BHSPiMonkey> we're trying to get a community going in there, and we have a few regulars so far
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[17:34:58] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: Hello there sir, how are you doing today?
[17:36:17] <IchGuckLive> fine i put lots of walpaer to the wall as sopost to be
[17:37:09] <IchGuckLive> BHSPiMonkey: nice idee to get smale mashines
[17:37:34] <IchGuckLive> wallpaper kb8wmc
[17:38:24] <kb8wmc> very good, what wall and wallpaper?
[17:38:44] <IchGuckLive> all standard but roof 45deg
[17:38:56] <BHSPiMonkey> hmm?
[17:39:05] <IchGuckLive> i shot them 27 rolls on ebay
[17:40:05] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: I bet you are happy to have the job behind you now
[17:40:17] <IchGuckLive> BHSPiMonkey: we most have big mashines
[17:40:35] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: my arms are burning
[17:41:15] <BHSPiMonkey> IchGuckLive: German is your first language?
[17:41:39] <IchGuckLive> http://mechmo.de/lothar/cnc_4.JPG
[17:41:44] <IchGuckLive> BHSPiMonkey: yes
[17:41:57] <BHSPiMonkey> Nice. I plan to travel there in a few months
[17:42:03] <IchGuckLive> BHSPiMonkey: last link is a picture of my education mashines
[17:42:35] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: nice, what size motors are you using?
[17:42:36] <IchGuckLive> i will be in CA in Feb for edelbrook recoding
[17:42:57] <BHSPiMonkey> IchGuckLive: looks nice. What is the size of the usable area?
[17:43:03] <IchGuckLive> Nema23 out of epson laserprinters
[17:43:19] <IchGuckLive> 165x165x55mm
[17:43:36] <IchGuckLive> 350Euros in total all included
[17:43:55] <BHSPiMonkey> ah, tiny
[17:44:08] <BHSPiMonkey> close to the shapeoko
[17:44:16] <IchGuckLive> fits a standard school table with the pc
[17:44:22] <BHSPiMonkey> looks a lot more rock-solid though
[17:44:39] <IchGuckLive> 30x30 AL
[17:44:57] <IchGuckLive> 1m in total
[17:45:21] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: hmmm, very nice
[17:45:36] <IchGuckLive> i got 28 of this know
[17:46:04] <IchGuckLive> as some of the 99 Steppers are not running i tryd to get 30
[17:46:18] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: are all of your students going to have their own?
[17:46:41] <IchGuckLive> 26 places with 2 students
[17:47:40] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: okay
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[17:48:05] <BHSPiMonkey> that's really cool
[17:48:38] <BHSPiMonkey> if you're near frankfurt, maybe I'll stop by to check them out when I visit :P
[17:48:53] <IchGuckLive> i'm building lathes know at max 400x300 place size
[17:49:13] <IchGuckLive> Ramstein Kaiserslautern
[17:50:31] <IchGuckLive> 140km to Frankfurt
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[18:05:02] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/Lathe/thread1.jpg
[18:06:27] <IchGuckLive> nice at what RPM
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[18:08:20] <IchGuckLive> Whow unamployment to the US drop below 8%
[18:08:30] <IchGuckLive> nice job mister president
[18:10:02] <skunkworks__> Tom_itx: next wood?
[18:10:31] <archivist> why the run out groove linuxcnc does not need that :)
[18:11:40] <skunkworks__> manual lathe... (for me a takes coordination to pull out the same each time)
[18:12:51] <archivist> there are some knock out tool holders for manual lathes
[18:14:25] <IchGuckLive> im off by
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[18:15:17] <andypugh> I did 5" of 1/2" Whit last night pulling out manually. (on a manual Colchester Student)
[18:16:01] <andypugh> I didn't want a groove, it was a brake actualting rod.
[18:18:28] <andypugh> https://plus.google.com/u/0/108164504656404380542/posts
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[18:20:00] <archivist> fire engine spares for the use of :)
[18:20:44] <archivist> old bit of wrought iron by the look of it
[18:20:45] <andypugh> Odd how it lasted 96 years, then suddenly broke.
[18:21:13] <archivist> wrought is like that, it needs annealing
[18:21:29] <archivist> looks like a brittle fracture
[18:22:10] <andypugh> Ductile fracture, and no sign of significant fatigue crack growth.
[18:22:32] <archivist> I cant see any necking
[18:24:15] <andypugh> No, there wasn't any to speak of, but the fracture surface wasn't typical of brittle fracture.
[18:24:24] <archivist> we had a stud fail on a traction engine someone was just needle gunning to clean after the gland was removed and it snapped
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[18:25:14] <archivist> that is why old wrought lifting gear had to be annealed every x months
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[18:45:45] <L84Supper> http://www.irm.org/ if you ever want to ride, see and touch some old steam engines
[18:46:51] <L84Supper> are there any old train museums in the UK where you can ride on old steam engines?
[18:47:03] <andypugh> Dozens
[18:47:34] <L84Supper> any you'd recommend?
[18:47:55] <archivist> hundreds probably
[18:48:22] <andypugh> Off the top of my head, Keighley and Worth Valley, Bluebell, Isle of Wight, Tallylyn, FFesstiniog,
[18:48:37] <andypugh> Embsay
[18:49:11] <andypugh> Bridgnorth
[18:49:24] <L84Supper> do they have any 19th century engines still in operation?
[18:49:27] <andypugh> (these are just ones I have been on)
[18:49:43] <archivist> probably better to say what area as most have a preserved railway near
[18:50:02] <archivist> Sever Valley
[18:50:11] <archivist> Severn
[18:50:43] <archivist> Great Central
[18:51:37] <archivist> I have volunteered at some
[18:51:40] <andypugh> Lots of 18th century.
http://www.nrm.org.uk/OurCollection/LocomotivesAndRollingStock/CollectionItem.aspx?objid=1975-7015&cat=steam&comp=All&ipp=12 for example
[18:52:05] <archivist> NRM has two sites
[18:52:06] <L84Supper> nice
[18:52:23] <andypugh> Sorry, that's 19thC
[18:53:34] <archivist> there are some reproduction locos that are run on a regular basis
[18:55:00] <archivist> nrm this year
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_07_27_York_Railway_Museum/IMG_1277.JPG
[18:55:21] <L84Supper> IRM only has a couple from the 1800's, and they are probably too fragile to move, more oxide than iron under a coat of black enamel
[18:56:15] <andypugh> The oldest one in steam in the UK is 1863.
http://www.furnessrailwaytrust.org.uk/fr20.htm
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[18:57:09] <L84Supper> it's interesting to be able to walk past several decades of innovation in an hour
[18:57:13] <andypugh> Basically, if you want to ride on steam trains, the UK is the place to be.
[18:57:52] <archivist> I shall be driving an 1849 stationary steam engine tomorrow :)
[18:58:17] <andypugh> The UK preserved railway list doesn't even fit on one page :-)
http://www.heritage-railways.com/railways-a.php
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[18:59:15] <L84Supper> I like the old engines with friction bearings that they had to service so often with a giant caulk type gun filled with a wax like lube
[18:59:16] <archivist> we had the inspector drop in at Rutland and he said it was in the hundreds
[19:00:13] <andypugh> The funniest is probably in Ireland though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnIN2bwvdPk
[19:00:40] <archivist> there are some private railways where an invite is needed
[19:00:56] <L84Supper> most of the old engines here are sitting and oxidizing away, some were donated to the museum for restoration
[19:01:58] <L84Supper> most ended up as scrap, or on display at parks or lodges
[19:02:06] <andypugh> Is this the time to bring up the Strategic Steam Reserve?
[19:02:23] <L84Supper> is this like the maple syrup reserve? :)
[19:03:06] <L84Supper> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/canada/9587835/Canadas-Maple-Syrup-reserves-recovered.html
[19:03:12] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_steam_reserve
[19:04:10] <L84Supper> so that explains why so many are still around in the UK
[19:04:11] <archivist> http://www.statfoldbarnrailway.co.uk/
[19:05:23] <L84Supper> there would be complete chaos in the US if the power or diesel supply was interrupted
[19:05:33] <L84Supper> no steam backup
[19:08:10] <archivist> I have visited the museum near Chicago, Illinois railway museum
[19:08:41] <archivist> I did giggle at their claims of speed of their tram
[19:09:28] <andypugh> What was giggle-worthy?
[19:11:31] <archivist> the claim theirs was the fastest
[19:12:13] <archivist> I think it was trundling at about 10-15 mph
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[19:13:18] <andypugh> Fastest in what sense?
[19:13:34] <andypugh> (like, who else was in the contest?)
[19:14:09] <archivist> the world iirc,
[19:14:43] <archivist> was back in 1990, so cant remember the exact words
[19:14:59] <L84Supper> they have about 5 miles of track, we were up to ~45mph a few weeks ago
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[19:16:21] <andypugh> The Sheffield trams do 80kph (50mph)
[19:16:27] <andypugh> And they are fairly old.
[19:16:41] <archivist> we are limited here by the light railway regulations, but preserved locos to run on the mail railway network at proper speeds
[19:18:13] <archivist> fairly old would apply to the Isle of Man trams too
[19:18:43] <andypugh> No, htose are just Old.
[19:19:09] <archivist> 1900s :)
[19:20:09] <archivist> pre 1910
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manx_Electric_Railway
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[19:24:08] <archivist> L84Supper, and we have some good museums, some with like steam like Manchester Museum of science and Industry
[19:24:19] <archivist> like/live
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[19:28:03] <andypugh> In fact, we have so much old stuff that there is no room for new stuff :-)
[19:42:09] <L84Supper> most of it here was scrapped
[19:43:00] <L84Supper> just few museums here and there with steam engines or old machines from the 18th or 19th century
[19:44:36] <L84Supper> http://www.thehenryford.org/museum/index.aspx http://www.msichicago.org/ or the Smithsonian
http://www.si.edu/
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[20:46:18] <JT-Shop> Did you add halui?
[20:46:21] <JT-Shop> Did you add halui?
[20:46:22] <JT-Shop> Did you add halui?
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[20:52:39] <Tom_itx> archivist, andypugh, skunkworks__, it was just easier to have the groove and it was turned in reverse to the tip. the spindle was still moving fairly quick so we decided it would be easier to thread it upside down
[20:53:09] <Tom_itx> his lathe will actually do 2 tpi which kinda surprised me
[20:53:37] <JT-Shop> the wood screw?
[20:53:53] <Tom_itx> the wood screw made from aluminum
[20:54:14] <JT-Shop> lol, you gave up on wood?
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[20:54:37] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/Lathe/thread1.jpg
[20:54:48] <Tom_itx> yeah it would be easy if you had a live tool to cut it
[20:55:19] <JT-Shop> my Samson will do 1-28 TPI (just looked)
[20:55:43] <JT-Shop> bet that will hold better than any old wood
[20:56:09] <Tom_itx> yeah
[20:56:38] <Tom_itx> he'd gotten a few gears surplus and just happened to have what we needed
[20:57:02] <Tom_itx> just got back from test fitting it and the threads are great
[20:57:36] <Tom_itx> the rough finish on the dowel end isn't a problem since it's gettin epoxy anyway
[20:58:13] <Tom_itx> so now we can make one more
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[21:12:26] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:37:53] <andypugh> Anyone know their way round Makefiles?
[21:38:23] <JT-Shop> I know how to screw up a submakefile, does that help?
[21:38:35] <andypugh> It might:
http://pastebin.com/d81CULBw
[21:40:14] <micges> andypugh: you must add line to Makefile.inc
[21:40:56] <micges> CONFIG_LCD=m
[21:42:38] <JT-Shop> http://motorworks88.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=84185177
[21:43:15] <andypugh> I like in-situ machining
[21:43:53] <JT-Shop> yep, had to rig something up like that for my boom on the backhoe, I used a bigger drill...
[21:44:00] <andypugh> thanks micges, that looks like it was the problem
[21:44:39] <andypugh> I have only just realised that, actually, I haven't written a component in C before. Everything else ahs been comp or a Hostmot2 sub-driver
[21:50:04] <andypugh> (Hence this has not been a problem before)
[21:50:50] <andypugh> I checked my source tree for the CONFIG_STEPGEN string, but didn't actually have the Makefile.in added to the project.
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[22:30:32] <gmouer> in remapping a unused Gcode, in the ngc file pointed to, can the text be G10 L2 P0 R180 ? or must the L/P/R parameters be handled differently, can't get it to work
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[22:33:49] <gmouer> actual remap code in RS274 section of ini file is : Remap G68 modalgroup=1 ngc=G68 and in the linuxcnc/ngc_files folder I have a file name G68.ngc which has only one line of code G10 L2 P0 R180
[22:33:55] <gmouer> does not work
[22:34:02] <gmouer> no error messages
[22:34:27] <JT-Shop> and your running master?
[22:34:50] <gmouer> 2.6.0
[22:35:19] <JT-Shop> put a msg in there to see if it is getting called
[22:35:34] <gmouer> went to that ver to get chris morleys latest fixes for pncconf
[22:35:38] <JT-Shop> does the ngc file need to be executable
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[22:36:07] <JT-Shop> and you made a subroutine in the file?
[22:36:16] <gmouer> I have no idea, have the remap doc on the other puter , it seems like I got it right
[22:36:37] <gmouer> no subroutine, just the one line of code in the .ngc file
[22:36:42] <JT-Shop> just scanning the docs and I think you need a proper subroutine in the file
[22:36:55] <JT-Shop> yep
[22:37:12] <JT-Shop> look at the m400 example
[22:38:10] <gmouer> the m400 example line is about the same except it uses argspec and I did not
[22:38:25] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/remap/structure.html#_the_em_argspec_em_parameter_a_id_remap_argspec_parameter_a
[22:38:27] <gmouer> you must mean in the ngc file pointed to?
[22:38:29] <JT-Shop> look at 3.3.1
[22:40:03] <JT-Shop> http://pastebin.com/yc6NRmqS
[22:40:26] <gmouer> confusing doc, I am not trying to pass any parameters like the example
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[22:41:25] <gmouer> the doc says 3.3.1 is for named parameter passing
[22:41:31] <JT-Shop> http://pastebin.com/yc6NRmqS
[22:42:17] <JT-Shop> but you still need the first line, the next to last line and the last line and your code
[22:42:21] <gmouer> I will go try it per your sample
[22:42:48] <gmouer> your saying a subroutine is mandatory?
[22:42:54] <JT-Shop> yep
[22:43:19] <gmouer> K, machine is right next to me so we will know in a couple mins
[22:49:13] <gmouer> unknown gcode used both for G68 and G69
[22:52:18] <gmouer> ini file rs274ngc line REMAP=G68 modalgroup=1 ngc=G68
[22:54:16] <JT-Shop> let me see if I have master on the computer next to me
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[22:59:08] <gmouer> I do not have a SUBROUTINE_PATH set in the RS274 section, according to the doc it should default to (Display) PROGRAM_PREFIX which is where I put the ngc files
[23:01:07] <JT-Shop> if you type o<G68> call in the MDI window it works?
[23:01:32] <JT-Shop> The file myprocedure.ngc is expected to exists in the [DISPLAY]NC_FILES or [RS274NGC]SUBROUTINE_PATH directory.
[23:01:53] <JT-Shop> so yep
[23:02:49] <gmouer> let me try o<G68> in the mdi window
[23:03:04] <JT-Shop> and it says argsepc is optional...
[23:03:18] <JT-Shop> don't forget the call part
[23:05:03] <gmouer> o<G68> call gives msg unable to open file <G68>
[23:06:27] <gmouer> I can try adding SUBROUTINE_PATH to the rs274 section for the hell of it
[23:07:36] <JT-Shop> file name must be g68.ngc and the subrotine must be lower case as well
[23:08:10] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html#_calling_files
[23:08:14] <gmouer> I have upper case for filename
[23:08:21] <JT-Shop> read the link
[23:08:30] <gmouer> a quit exit and try again, and read the link
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[23:14:27] <gmouer> still get a unknown g code error, all is lower case now
[23:14:55] <andypugh> micges: If you look in the Makefile at lines 890 onwards, should every component have an entry there?
[23:15:23] <JT-Shop> different error
[23:15:29] <JT-Shop> you might have a typo
[23:15:47] <JT-Shop> try (msg, hi) instead of your g code
[23:16:15] <gmouer> g68 and g69 both throw unknown gcode error
[23:16:43] <JT-Shop> pastebin the contents of one
[23:17:10] <gmouer> never did pastebin either its all new
[23:17:34] <micges> andypugh: this is sections with hw drivers
[23:17:40] <JT-Shop> http://pastebin.com/
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[23:19:16] <andypugh> micges: Are you sure? I see a number which don't access hardware (stepgen) and some that do (parport)
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[23:20:25] <micges> lcd doesn't compile yet?
[23:20:46] <andypugh> It compiles fine. But not in --enable-simulator
[23:23:27] <gmouer> http://pastebin.com/KWeu77Dr filename is g68.ngc
[23:23:47] <gmouer> in linuxcnc/nc_files folder
[23:23:54] <micges> andypugh: pastebin your whole makefile
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[23:26:35] <andypugh> I don't think this is necessarily a makefile problem:
http://pastebin.com/kxmxXxJ9
[23:27:27] <JT-Shop> try this
http://pastebin.com/index/KWeu77Dr
[23:28:51] <gmouer> JT, isn't that the identical pastebin I just posted?
[23:29:15] <gmouer> same link
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[23:30:59] <JT-Shop> that didn't work
[23:31:13] <JT-Shop> replace the g code with (msg, hi)
[23:31:16] <JT-Shop> and try that
[23:31:33] <gmouer> is that the exact format (msg, hi)
[23:31:39] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:31:44] <gmouer> ok
[23:32:24] <Nick001-Shop> Can X Y Z be renamed Z1 Z2 Z3 for programing purposes?
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[23:35:37] <JT-Shop> no
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[23:36:34] <Nick001-Shop_> solves that one -)
[23:36:35] <gmouer> unknown g code message
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[23:39:41] <gmouer> lets get more basic, I will postbin the first part of my ini file so you can see the remap lines etc.
[23:39:44] <JT-Shop> gmagno: I'm out of time... your missing something basic
[23:40:05] <JT-Shop> if you can't run it from the MDI window I don't think you can use it for remap
[23:40:12] <gmouer> thanks for trying, if you didn't see anything wrong I am in trouble
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[23:40:33] <JT-Shop> read the o codes and get that to work
[23:41:24] <JT-Shop> don't feel bad I can't get the remap to work either
[23:41:32] <gmouer> oh great LOL
[23:41:51] <JT-Shop> in any case get the subroutine to work then move on from there
[23:42:06] * JT-Shop heads inside now
[23:42:14] <gmouer> I wonder if they changed something about remap and didn't update the doc
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[23:43:50] <gmagno> JT-Shop, that was for gmouer, right?
[23:44:38] <gmagno> I also do that all the time...
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[23:59:48] <andypugh> micges: I was never sure where the compiler was finding do_div, and it seems unable to do so in simulator. TBH I would be perfectly happy for the simulator to just not make it.
