Back
[00:00:59] <Tom_itx> umm what about your backlash comp?
[00:01:55] <jp_> Is that measured from a encoder on the motor or scale on the table
[00:02:10] <Tom_itx> the table has the final say
[00:02:12] <JT-Shop-2> encoders on the motor
[00:02:21] <Tom_itx> measure the encoders against the table movement
[00:03:32] <JT-Shop-2> I must be missing some of the conversation here
[00:03:35] <jp_> how much overshoot/undershoot?
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[00:03:45] <jp_> no tom has
[00:03:57] <Tom_itx> i did?
[00:04:07] <jp_> i think you confused JT
[00:04:25] <JT-Shop> the following error is +0.001" on the start and -0.001" at the end of the move
[00:04:26] <Tom_itx> well backlash comp could cause that
[00:04:32] <jp_> i just wanted to know wher the feedback was connected to
[00:05:11] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop are you dialing in the PID?
[00:05:16] <JT-Shop> yes
[00:05:18] <Tom_itx> add a tiny bit of I
[00:05:29] <JT-Shop> been doing that
[00:05:45] <Tom_itx> actually, is P overshooting?
[00:05:57] <Tom_itx> if P overshoots, I won't help you
[00:06:08] <Tom_itx> back P off and increase I if it is
[00:06:41] <JT-Shop> I adjused P till stiff, then FF1 to null out the cruse following error now I'm working on I
[00:07:26] <JT-Shop> actually P till it oscillated then backed it off till the oscillation quite
[00:07:30] <JT-Shop> quit
[00:07:33] <Tom_itx> yup
[00:07:51] <JT-Shop> then FF1 for cruse
[00:08:52] <JT-Shop> with I=0 the overshoot/undershoot is the same
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[00:12:33] <jp_> whats it at 1 or 2
[00:14:06] <jp_> my mill is around 400 2 10 just for reference they wont be the same
[00:14:32] <jp_> but should be fairly relative
[00:15:22] <jp_> What axis is this on?
[00:16:07] <JT-Shop> I started with the x axis
[00:16:39] <JT-Shop> P=550 FF1=1.8
[00:16:58] <JT-Shop> <jp_> whats it at 1 or 2??
[00:17:20] <jp_> sorry in P I D order
[00:17:35] <JT-Shop> I and D are 0 atm
[00:17:35] <jp_> did not use FF
[00:17:54] <JT-Shop> FF1 centers the cruse phase
[00:18:10] <JT-Shop> I managed to gleen that much from PCW
[00:18:16] <jp_> we may be using different modes as well im in torque mode
[00:18:34] <JT-Shop> yea I'm in velocity mode so not the same
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[00:18:53] <jp_> sorry forgot to pick up on that at first
[00:20:24] <JT-Shop> we have a servo tuning section on the forum but no one uses it :( they scatter all over the place
[00:21:25] <jp_> need an auto-tune button!!! but thats just me being lazy
[00:23:33] <JT-Shop> I wonder if any of the FF's are acceleration feed forward gain???
[00:26:39] <jp_> i thought there was a wiki page that explained it well?
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[00:27:27] <JT-Shop> nope it quits when it gets to tuning :(
[00:27:40] <JT-Shop> teeny tiny bit of FF2 seems to take it out
[00:28:12] <JT-Shop> that page does a good job of getting your encoder hooked up
[00:29:18] <JT-Shop> down to 0.0003" following error at cutting speeds
[00:29:56] <JT-Shop> same at 180IPM :)
[00:29:57] <jp_> try a cut in one axis
[00:31:21] <JT-Shop> not ready to cut yet, have to get the switch box with start, stop, estop, axis, jog increment put on
[00:31:29] <jp_> ARGH gtk is pissing me off!!!!
[00:33:17] <jp_> how would i update a Lib glibmm to a newer version?
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[00:34:15] <r00t4rd3d> find a repo with the latest version or git it
[00:34:57] <jp_> it's in the standard linux repo
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[00:39:17] <JT-Shop> jp_: your using C++ with gtk?
[00:39:28] <JT-Shop> or is that the C one?
[00:39:53] <jp_> C++ need it for another program
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[00:40:43] <JT-Shop> I think you can tell the synaptic package manager to use the latest one but I've never done it
[00:40:56] <JT-Shop> Y done Z to go
[00:41:22] <jp_> dam build from source wish i learned unix and linux in school!!!
[00:42:05] <jp_> hoping the update manager will take care of it
[00:42:52] <jp_> JT-Shop work on anymore glade stuff?
[00:44:38] <JT-Shop> not in the last week or so
[00:46:58] <jp_> me too but plan to get back at it
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[01:26:06] <Tom_itx> how do you get a program to run continuous?
[01:26:16] <Tom_itx> ie pushing resume to start again
[01:26:33] <Tom_itx> i've got M30 at the end
[01:27:14] <Tom_itx> maybe M2?
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[01:31:41] <Tom_itx> maybe pause/resume is different from cycle start. i should add that button to the pendant i guess
[01:39:01] <Tom_itx> what signal is the '>' arrow (program start) in axis tied to?
[01:42:09] <jdh> I thought it was cycle-start
[01:43:14] <Tom_itx> i'm watching halui.program.run and i'm not seeing any change
[01:43:29] <Tom_itx> do you know where i'd find the pin to execute it?
[01:43:43] <jdh> halui.program.is-running should be the current state of runningness
[01:44:43] <jdh> net cycle-start <= hm2_7i43.0.gpio.024.in
[01:45:20] <Tom_itx> then where does cycle-start map to?
[01:45:26] <Tom_itx> is it in halui?
[01:45:36] <Tom_itx> halui.cycle-start?
[01:45:42] <Tom_itx> cause i don't see it
[01:46:11] <jdh> that's all I have in my HAL for it. I'm not by the machine though.
[01:46:18] <Tom_itx> i thought it might be halui.program.run
[01:46:37] <jdh> that should work in halui, afaik.
[01:46:58] <Tom_itx> is cycle-start a layer deeper than halui?
[01:48:17] <jdh> got me.
[01:48:32] <Tom_itx> i'll figure it out another day
[01:48:50] <jdh> you probably have to be in auto mode before using halui.program.run though
[01:48:59] <Tom_itx> it was a button i wanted to add to the pendant but haven't gotten to it yet
[01:51:30] <tjb1> Anyone here experience with java that can help me out
[01:54:10] <jdh> linuxcnc java? yuck.
[01:54:27] <tjb1> No…java
[01:57:53] <jp_> i have a bit of java but not much
[01:58:05] <Tom_itx> jdh, i think i found it
[01:58:25] <Tom_itx> you need to read the auto signal before you can set the run
[01:58:38] <Tom_itx> net program-start-btn halui.mode.auto and2.0.in0 <= <your input pin>
[01:58:38] <Tom_itx> net program-run-ok and2.0.in1 <= halui.mode.is-auto
[01:58:38] <Tom_itx> net remote-program-run halui.program.run <= and2.0.out
[01:59:19] <tjb1> Is there a way I can do a decimalformat on a printf line?
[01:59:35] <tjb1> I couldnt get it to work so I did a printf with what I needed then just did a print of what I couldnt format
[02:00:41] <jp_> use a round function?
[02:00:53] <tjb1> round?
[02:01:03] <tjb1> Im formatting with commas and currency sign
[02:01:31] <jp_> im guessing round to XX decimal places
[02:02:06] <tjb1> DecimalFormat currency = new DecimalFormat("$###,###,###.00");
[02:02:08] <jp_> i might be thinking py or SQL
[02:02:21] <jp_> to many langs to keep up with
[02:02:48] <jdh> s1[i]=String.format("%3.2f", p1[i]);
[02:03:24] <jdh> I've done java once (phone app), that is what I used.
[02:06:37] <jdh> first time I've looked at it in months... not very pretty.
[02:08:21] <tjb1> I hate java already
[02:08:24] <tjb1> and I barely know it
[02:08:49] <tjb1> Here is what I got -
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=edwVrG3a
[02:08:51] <jdh> my son was taking 'AP Computer Programming' in java, it was awful
[02:09:18] <jdh> but, I did help with a few programs. I just wrote most of it in c and it was fine.
[02:11:14] <tjb1> The wrost part is the the teacher just pulls these commands out of his ass
[02:11:28] <tjb1> Like converting a string to an integer is like parseString or something
[02:11:35] <jdh> that's because there are 16.3 billion crappy ass java classes to do any weird thing you want
[02:11:51] <jdh> there are lots of ways to do atio()
[02:12:09] <tjb1> Doesnt show us how to find it or anything, just takes us to the Java API page where you first have to pick the class and then surf through 500 methods or whatever that have names that dont pertain to what they do
[02:12:36] <jdh> heh, we did 'learning java via google'
[02:12:39] <tjb1> Id be find if I could find a page that described the java classes and methods in words I can understand
[02:13:00] <jdh> and awt and swing and other things that don't quite mix and match
[02:13:04] <jdh> panels and jpanels
[02:13:09] <jdh> frames and jframes
[02:13:13] <jdh> crap and jcrap
[02:14:01] <tjb1> The console is like jibberish too :P
[02:15:11] <tjb1> like how in the hell am I supposed to know that JOptionPane is a GUI?
[02:15:35] <jdh> google.
[02:15:56] <jdh> find something similar towhat you want, steal the code.
[02:16:01] <jdh> s/steal/borrow/
[02:16:58] <tjb1> Well first I would have to stumble through enough to find out that joptionpane is a GUI code
[02:16:58] <tjb1> Then stumble through the api to figure out what to put in it lol
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[05:58:04] <nathanstenzel> hi
[05:58:21] <nathanstenzel> so, anybody here?
[05:59:29] <nathanstenzel> I guess not
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[06:04:39] <nathanstenzel> anyone have any experience with rotation nut designs for use with lead screws?
[06:05:19] <Jymmm> you mean an anti-backlash nut?
[06:05:26] <nathanstenzel> nope
[06:05:34] <Jymmm> then nope
[06:05:56] <nathanstenzel> I mean a stationary screw with a spinning nut/pulley
[06:06:14] <Jymmm> might try back in 6 hours
[06:07:03] <nathanstenzel> it is described here:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/127299-rotating_lead_nut_design.html
[06:08:28] <nathanstenzel> evdently some hoss machine and a 1970's bridgeport machine useed it
[06:09:43] <nathanstenzel> It is supposed to have no resonance problem and would be able to use an anti-backlash nut just like a setup with a spinning lead screw would
[06:12:40] <nathanstenzel> people tell me my long lead screw would do no good, but it sounds like it should probably be fine with the rotating nut design. I came up with the idea the other day and then found out tonight that it was used before
[06:13:44] <nathanstenzel> not sure if it was used exactly like I plan on using it, but oh well
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[06:26:27] <nathanstenzel> good night
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[06:30:51] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:31:45] <V0idExp> hi all!
[07:32:59] <DJ9DJ> hi there
[07:33:14] <V0idExp> have a question... related to the same situation explained a week ago. I have a piston that feeds ink to a XYZ dyeing head. The piston is driven as spindle, and it's a step drive.
[07:34:55] <V0idExp> So, the question is... :) when my piston reaches the limit (the ink is finished) I want some GCode to be executed immediately, or at least, being notified on that, and interrupt any dyeing process... is that possible?
[07:37:53] <V0idExp> I'll explain better. My head goes here and there on XY plane, then, when there's something to paint, the Z stepper pushes the head down near the plane and it starts to paint by activating the piston spindle and moving on plane.
[07:39:26] <V0idExp> as soon as it has finished, the spindle stops (no ink is fed) and the Z motor raises the head up. Thats' all :)
[07:40:22] <V0idExp> but, obviously, there may be an exceptional situation, when the head is in painting mode (down to the plane) and the ink in the head is finished, which occurs when the piston reaches its lowest limit
[07:40:30] <V0idExp> I need a way to handle this situation
[07:41:01] <Jymmm> like a limit switch?
[07:41:04] <Valen> i don't think anything off the shelf will do that?
[07:41:09] <V0idExp> yes
[07:41:54] <Valen> limit switch would cause it to stop, i don't think you could then go and refill it or whatever
[07:42:04] <Valen> and then continur
[07:42:07] <Valen> continue
[07:42:39] <Valen> not without hooking into something lower level anyway
[07:43:29] <V0idExp> well, the idea is to have that switch stop everything, sure, but it should also notify my software (which is python based on linuxcnc API) about that, so it will automatically launch the "refill the head" procedure (GCode prgoram)
[07:43:58] <Valen> I'd be more inclined to approach the problem from the other end
[07:44:07] <V0idExp> :)
[07:44:09] <V0idExp> ?
[07:44:11] <Valen> make it so you dont run out of paint in the first place
[07:44:29] <Valen> if your stepping the paint out you should be able to know when your getting low
[07:44:31] <V0idExp> unfortunatelly, it's impossible by design :(
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[07:45:03] <Valen> hook the thing up as an axis rather than the spindle
[07:45:48] <V0idExp> but if I set it up as an axis, I'd have to control it with positions, not rotate/stop commands
[07:46:25] <Valen> how are you making the gcode?
[07:46:32] <Valen> got a picture of your whole setup?
[07:47:00] <V0idExp> I mean, I'd have to control it with G01 command. but it's not obvious to find out by how much distance the piston should go down to feed ONLY the ink needed for painting that piece
[07:47:38] <V0idExp> My code is generated by our software, which basically builds a NGC program based on things painted by user on screen
[07:47:58] <Valen> presume it'd be related to the length, i mean it'd be similar to how your running now, x units will cover y distance
[07:48:04] <Valen> sounds like it'd be easier in a way lol
[07:48:26] <Valen> currently you turn spindle on and g1 a distance of 100 units
[07:48:32] <V0idExp> yes
[07:48:34] <Valen> you set the spindle speed to match the distance
[07:48:37] <Valen> bah
[07:48:41] <Valen> match the speed rather
[07:49:10] <Valen> so work out how many steps your spindle is going to do over that 100 unit distance
[07:49:35] <Valen> now do a G1 with your A axis doing the same number of steps as your spindle was going to do
[07:50:30] <Valen> if your spindle is controlled by EMC there shouldn't really be a difference, as you cant tweak the spindle speed outside the program anyway
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[07:51:38] <V0idExp> ehm... haven't understood well your idea. for example, I have to paint a straight diagonal line:
[07:51:41] <Valen> V0idExp: thoughts?
[07:52:03] <V0idExp> 1) m103 p100 (custom command, turns spindle on and rotates at 100 rpm)
[07:52:21] <dhoovie> if you use G1 and the A axis, I wasn't able to get the machine off exact stop mode though :( wasn't doing exactly the same thing but that may be a consideration.
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[07:52:35] <V0idExp> 3) g0 z100 (moves the head down)
[07:52:44] <V0idExp> 3) g01 x100 y100 f100 (paints)
[07:53:02] <V0idExp> *4) :D
[07:53:12] <V0idExp> 6) g0 z0 (moves the head up)
[07:53:16] <V0idExp> 5) m103 p0 (stops the spindle)
[07:53:17] <V0idExp> that's all
[07:53:49] <V0idExp> the step 3) is the only variable thing.... I mean, it all depends from the shape designed by user. so there can be thousand steps like that before the spindle turns off
[07:54:13] <V0idExp> I mean, the painting process can be one line or thousand lines program, all are g01's
[07:54:31] <V0idExp> and the speed also varies
[07:54:53] <V0idExp> sometimes it's f100 (on angles) and sometimes it's f2000, on long straight lines
[07:57:41] <dhoovie> V0idExp: I think Valen means instead of doing m103 p100 attach the head to the A axis and use g01 x100 y100 a(some amount) f100
[07:57:45] <V0idExp> sorry guys, if I'm confusing you, I'm not english and maybe I'm writing stupidities, as it may seem for you
[07:58:17] <V0idExp> I got that... but that "some amount" need to be calculated in some way
[07:58:32] <Valen> well are you controlling the spindle speed now?
[07:59:16] <Valen> ahh there it is
[07:59:24] <Valen> your p100
[08:00:08] <Valen> if you know the feed distance, and the rate then you know how many steps the spindle would make over that time
[08:00:20] <Valen> just have it do the same on an a axis
[08:00:43] <dhoovie> number of a steps = speed * ( distance to be moved / feedrate )
[08:00:51] <dhoovie> approximately
[08:01:02] <Valen> give or take
[08:01:14] <Valen> then you don't need to worry about running out of paint in the middle of a line
[08:01:30] <Valen> in your generation program when a gets close to some limit, trigger your fill
[08:01:54] <dhoovie> though, then you need a stepper or servo on the head
[08:02:05] <Valen> already has a stepper by the sound of it
[08:02:16] <dhoovie> ohh then you are mint
[08:02:32] <dhoovie> also, i don't know how to get off exact stop mode for a moves
[08:02:54] <Valen> as in your in that mode and dont want to be dhoovie?
[08:02:59] <dhoovie> uhh i mean A axis moves
[08:03:04] <dhoovie> yep.
[08:03:35] <Valen> hang on, are you still talking about V0idExps problem or a new one of your own?
[08:04:00] <dhoovie> well, you just have to take it into consideration.
[08:04:09] <dhoovie> but at least it works. it is a new problem though :(
[08:04:18] <V0idExp> suppose I can do that. How does it solves the problem? I mean, every motion has to calculate where the next position will be and store it. But that's not a problem. The problem is that if I trigger the limit switch...
[08:04:20] <Valen> shouldn't really matter
[08:04:30] <V0idExp> it will simply ESTOP everything
[08:04:38] <Valen> your gcode generator should be able to solve the problem
[08:05:42] <dhoovie> V0idExp: a simple test before hand as to the number of rotations before you need a refill. add a bit of a safety factor and after you hit that many degrees go for a refill.
[08:06:21] <V0idExp> good idea.
[08:07:02] <V0idExp> at that point I can simply do the following... still handle the piston as spindle, place two switches, one which notifies about "ink is almost finished!" and one that stops everything.
[08:07:57] <V0idExp> *signal
[08:07:58] <V0idExp> this won't cause great changes in code... the only problem is that I'd have to constantly listen on the trigger...
[08:08:13] <V0idExp> or LinuxCNC can invoke automatically some code when something occurred?
[08:08:24] <V0idExp> Suppose, it's realtime stuff
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[08:09:26] <V0idExp> as for now, all I need is LinuxCNC stopping everything immediately when "NO INK" signal is triggered and notify it to me
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[08:13:33] <r00t4rd3d> like a limit switch
[08:13:42] <V0idExp> yes
[08:14:03] <r00t4rd3d> so set it up like one
[08:15:13] <V0idExp> ok, think that an A-axis approach is da way
[08:15:23] <V0idExp> the A axis is a normal axis controlled by speed?
[08:15:28] <V0idExp> it can be homed, etc?
[08:15:51] <r00t4rd3d> im not sure but i imagine
[08:15:53] <dhoovie> it is a normal axis
[08:16:02] <r00t4rd3d> never used a 4 axis
[08:16:02] <dhoovie> and its controlled by angle
[08:16:49] <V0idExp> by angle?
[08:17:03] <V0idExp> what the g0 .... A parameter expects?
[08:17:46] <r00t4rd3d> V0idExp, do you have a picture of what your working on?
[08:18:56] <dhoovie> g0 a100 would be move a to 100 degrees
[08:20:06] <V0idExp> wait for a copypaste :)
[08:22:02] <V0idExp> My head goes here and there on XY plane, then, when there's something to paint, the Z stepper pushes the head down near the plane and it starts to paint by activating the piston spindle and moving on plane. [09:39] <V0idExp> as soon as it has finished, the spindle stops (no ink is fed) and the Z motor raises the head up. Thats' all :)
[08:22:31] <V0idExp> anyway, I'll try to set it as another position-controlled axis.
[08:22:53] <V0idExp> as for now, thank you all! I'll notify you about some changes or adopted solutions :)
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[09:56:17] <r00t4rd3d> islam is the nazi party of the 21st century
[09:58:25] <r00t4rd3d> w/c
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[12:05:15] <cncbasher> setting up a stepper driven machine with shaft encoders , should i use position or velocity contol type
[12:05:43] <jthornton> velocity
[12:06:04] <cncbasher> good .. got that right haha
[12:06:48] <jthornton> also I think your steps need to be finer than the encoder counts by at least 2x
[12:07:15] <cncbasher> never try'd shaft encoders on a stepper machine , so open to guidance
[12:07:52] <cncbasher> 200 steps with 2500 count encoders
[12:08:21] <jthornton> any microstepping on the drive?
[12:08:29] <cncbasher> yes
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[12:09:02] <cncbasher> at the moment running half step
[12:09:45] <jthornton> I think it only works if your step count per rev is twice the number of encoder counts... at least that is what I've heard
[12:10:00] <cncbasher> but i can go to 40,000
[12:10:47] <archivist> I would think so because it can never get to a commanded encoder position if below the encoder qty
[12:11:44] <cncbasher> ok i'll have a go with it at 6,000
[12:12:24] <cncbasher> which is the closest i have , it's either 4,000 or 6,000
[12:12:25] <jthornton> is your encoder 2500 pulses per rev or 2500 lines with 10000 pulses per rev?
[12:12:43] <cncbasher> 2500 per rev
[12:13:08] <jthornton> 6k should work from what I've heard
[12:13:46] <cncbasher> ok thanks john interesting to see what results i get
[12:14:08] <jthornton> just remembered I have a stepper with an encoder mounted on...
[12:14:14] <jthornton> yes keep us posted
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[14:05:39] <seb_kuzminsky> here's a pretty neat free online feed/speed calculator:
http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard
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[14:38:33] <V0idExp> hi again guys!
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[14:39:03] <V0idExp> well, as for now that problem with the stepper-driven-piston is not that important.
[14:39:46] <V0idExp> what I want to know from you, if it's easy to answer, is the following... in PNCConf (using a 7i43 mesa board) the latency matters if i'm using ONLY stepper drives?
[14:40:01] <V0idExp> I mean, setting a wrong value in that field can be a source of problems?
[14:40:36] <V0idExp> cause I'm getting "joint 0 following error"
[14:40:48] <V0idExp> if I try to move at higher speeds
[14:41:11] <archivist_> latency matters regardless of motor type, it matters differently though
[14:41:46] <archivist_> also depends on the driving method, hardware v software stepping
[14:43:29] <V0idExp> suppose, using mesa boards is the "hardware way"?
[14:43:45] <archivist_> yes
[14:43:48] <V0idExp> cause I could reach high speeds without mesa, just only Parallel Port & stepconf...
[14:44:13] <V0idExp> and with mesa I'm getting "joint 0 following error" just when I'm going faster than 2k mm/min
[14:44:19] <pcw_home> joint x following error can be because you dont have enough velocity or acceleration headroom
[14:44:21] <pcw_home> (that is the stepgens mavxvelocity and max acceleration should be set about 20% more than the machine limits)
[14:44:55] <V0idExp> but with same values of velocity and acceleration it worked with software stepping o_O
[14:45:16] <pcw_home> also steplen and stepspace timing will limit your maximum step rate
[14:45:29] <V0idExp> well, I'm sure those are set correctly
[14:45:36] <cncbasher> voidexp: in your ini file change ferror to 1.0
[14:45:49] <V0idExp> so, vel || aceleration || base_thread may be the problem..
[14:45:55] <V0idExp> ok
[14:45:58] <V0idExp> what's ferror?
[14:46:11] <cncbasher> follow error
[14:46:25] <V0idExp> and setting that to 1 what will do?
[14:46:46] <pcw_home> make sure your stepgen acceleration limit is ~20% more than your machine acceleration value
[14:47:35] <cncbasher> which version of linuxcnc are you using and what stepper drivers ?
[14:47:59] <V0idExp> LinuxCNC 2.5.1, LAM Technologies stepper drives (1.7 arms / 0.5 Nm)
[14:48:00] <pcw_home> and make sure that the stepgen maxvel is not limiting velocity
[14:48:29] <V0idExp> oops, stepper drives don't know... have a sheet of them
[14:48:35] <V0idExp> that info was about motors
[14:49:01] <V0idExp> but timings are set well, that is sure 100%
[14:49:04] <cncbasher> it's the stepper drivers we are interested in
[14:49:19] <cncbasher> ok
[14:49:24] <V0idExp> what you want to know about steppers?
[14:49:29] <V0idExp> *drivers
[14:49:52] <V0idExp> dirhold: 100000, dirstep: 100000, step len: 3000, step space: 6000
[14:50:31] <pcw_home> if you get a joint following error with the hardware stepgen, it most likely bad stepgen maxaccel or stepgen maxvel settings
[14:50:44] <V0idExp> ok. i'll try to play with them
[14:50:53] <V0idExp> I'll be back.
[14:51:34] <pcw_home> also those are really long dir setup and hold times, are those really needed?
[14:52:12] <cncbasher> dirhold and setup are far to high as pcw says 20000 should be nearer the mark
[14:52:30] <cncbasher> send me your hal and ini files
[14:52:34] <pcw_home> steplen and step space will limit you to 111 KHz
[14:53:18] <pcw_home> which is probably fine unless you have very high ustep ratios
[14:53:38] <V0idExp> ustep is 200, multiplicator is 4
[14:54:38] <V0idExp> also, motor:screw ratio is 16:1
[14:55:12] <V0idExp> well, just called by a colleague to help him with some programming, I'll be back in some minutes and I'll send you the ini & hal files
[14:56:42] <cncbasher> would be nice to know what stepper drivers you have just so we can check the timings more precisely .. if you have a model number
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[14:59:07] <cncbasher> i'll presume there opto coupled inputs so a default of 20000 for dir hold and dir step with step len and space of 3000 should be a resonable start
[15:08:36] <V0idExp> LAM technologies, LS1044/OS1044 passive stepper drivers
[15:08:43] <V0idExp> i'll give you al link in a second
[15:09:04] <V0idExp> we're using "safe" timings
[15:09:12] <V0idExp> doubling the minimal times
[15:09:48] <V0idExp> http://www.lamtechnologies.com/Product.aspx?lng=EN&idp=LS1044
[15:12:05] <cncbasher> yea the default settings i gave should work fine
[15:12:45] <V0idExp> by the way, setting ferror to 1.0 and diminishing the acceleration results in a apparently working configuration
[15:13:03] <V0idExp> I'll investigate on this more. I'll be back.
[15:13:07] <cncbasher> now take the ferror to 0.5
[15:13:30] <V0idExp> ok tnx
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[15:19:11] <pcw_home> what are maxaccel and stepgen maxaccel?
[15:20:36] <V0idExp> maxaccel is unknown. if you mean motor's physical acceleration. the stepgen maxaccel we used on software (parallel port) step generation was 1000 m/s^2
[15:20:40] <V0idExp> now is set to 200
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[15:21:54] <pcw_home> and what is stepgen maxaccel?
[15:25:53] <pcw_home> For each axis there are the machines maxaccel and the hardware stepgens maxaccel as I said before the stepgens maxaccel must be set to about 20% more than the machines maxaccel or you will get joint following errors
[15:25:55] <pcw_home> The same goes for velocity
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[15:28:07] <V0idExp> where machine maxaccels are set?
[15:28:17] <V0idExp> i don't see them in PNCConf them...
[15:29:40] <pcw_home> dont know I just deal with hal file directly
[15:31:07] <pcw_home> pncconf should do this but you can verify by reading the hal file
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[15:36:39] <V0idExp> so, you normally write hal files manually?
[15:37:02] <cncbasher> you can see the machine maxaccel values per axis in the ini file
[15:37:16] <V0idExp> ok
[15:37:17] <cncbasher> stepgen values are in the Hal file
[15:38:25] <V0idExp> another question guys. At AXIS shutdown, the MESA fpga/memory/whatever-it-is is not cleared, right?
[15:38:34] <V0idExp> cause LEDs aren't coming back to yellow-red-red
[15:38:59] <V0idExp> and leave the MESA board I/O pins in some strange state
[15:39:01] <cncbasher> the 7i43's are loaded on startup
[15:39:11] <pcw_home> No I dont think its reset
[15:39:23] <V0idExp> yes, it works well as for now
[15:39:43] <V0idExp> I mean, power on - yellow-red-red are ON. Launch AXIS, yellow is on and red-red are off
[15:40:09] <cncbasher> are you using any of the add on extension cards
[15:40:23] <V0idExp> CLOSE axis, yellow is still on and red-red are still OFF... and on I/O pins there are random values, but in order of some volts, 1.7-2.2 volts
[15:40:27] <V0idExp> no
[15:40:30] <V0idExp> only mesa itself
[15:40:45] <pcw_home> firmware is always reloaded (unless you leave out the firmware =xxx) but not reset when LinuxCNC exits
[15:41:12] <V0idExp> well, if firmware is always reloaded, it's ok.
[15:42:03] <cncbasher> the fpga is essentialy dumb until emc starts and is then loaded with configuration
[15:42:17] <V0idExp> understand.
[15:42:24] <pcw_home> You should not have funny values like that at shutdown, all pins (unless driven by external signals) shouls be at ~3.3V
[15:42:51] <cncbasher> so if any inputs or outputs are not what you need , fit some pullup resistors or pull down etc
[15:42:55] <pcw_home> (assuming the watchdog is enabled)
[15:43:09] <pcw_home> Pull ups are already there
[15:43:11] <V0idExp> I don't have Pull-up resistors enabled. (w3 is down). So i expect at shutdown ALL pins going down
[15:43:33] <pcw_home> no You _MUST_ have pullups enabled
[15:43:46] <pcw_home> this is a safety issue
[15:43:47] <cncbasher> no they can float , if you dont have pullups enables
[15:44:00] <cncbasher> arh pcw beat me to it
[15:44:30] <V0idExp> I suspect with enabled pull-ups my board will burn.. already broke one
[15:44:48] <pcw_home> All of our daughter cards assume that the safe state is all high on the I/O pins (IF power is present)
[15:44:50] <V0idExp> but that maybe just a wrong power connections...
[15:45:05] <V0idExp> so, W1 up, W2 down and W3 up, normally?
[15:46:12] <pcw_home> Whatever enables the pre-config pullups. After its configured the FPGA has its own pullups that overide the jumper setting
[15:46:32] <V0idExp> ok
[15:46:34] <V0idExp> thank you
[15:47:06] <V0idExp> I'll let you know tomorrow If I have fired another Mesa board ;)
[15:47:27] <pcw_home> if you have pulldowns all bets are off with signal levels after watchdog bites (unless you want a special bit file that disables the pullups)
[15:48:08] <V0idExp> I don't have any resistors on Mesa outs.
[15:48:16] <V0idExp> They're directly connected to driver input pins
[15:49:09] <cncbasher> it's realy only a concern for relays and outputs being controlled
[15:49:20] <pcw_home> so before configuration the jumper determines if there are pullups or not, after configuration, the FPGA bitfile does
[15:49:22] <pcw_home> in any case these are ~2-5K built-in pullup in the FPGA chip
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[15:49:38] <cncbasher> inputs and stepper connections dont matter too much
[15:49:57] <pcw_home> so if you have external logic its best if its active low
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[15:54:26] <V0idExp> aaah, oook. so, I should set my driver to be active on low signal and disabled on high, with mesa card normally sending HIGH on all its pins
[15:54:26] <V0idExp> ?
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[15:55:21] <pcw_home> Yes
[15:55:38] <V0idExp> got it :) sorry, I'm a programmer :D
[15:55:53] <V0idExp> thank you all for your help, it was of great value
[16:05:14] <pcw_home> Yeah all the FPGA cards default to active low pin states so its fairly awkward to do things active high
[16:05:16] <pcw_home>
[16:07:40] <pcw_home> Originally this was done because the only pre-config I/O state setting available is pullups
[16:07:42] <pcw_home> and the fact the the 50 pin FPGA cards are OPTO22/Grahill IO module rack compatible and
[16:07:44] <pcw_home> these are all active low
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[16:24:36] <Jymmm> FDA RECALL OF DOG FOOD -->
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm319021.htm?source=govdelivery
[16:30:52] <pcw_home> We don't feed any lamb based food to Charlie, might give him ideas...
[16:31:01] <skunkworks> heh
[16:31:10] <skunkworks> do you think he would connect the dots?
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[16:32:21] <pcw_home> He did chase our sheep when they were small but they have an un-easy truce
[16:33:46] <pcw_home> Actually He's pretty good we trust him with the sheep and chickens (he does chase squirrels though)
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[16:41:23] <theos> in a world where humans are dying of hunger, some people keep dogs and feed them costly food. i dont regret hating humans :)
[16:42:49] <cradek_> that's utterly facile. you presumably have things, like a computer and monthly internet bill, that are luxuries that cost you money which could be used to feed others.
[16:43:07] <jdh> you should sell a kidney, feed some starving people.
[16:45:05] <theos> you dont get the point. you are just trying to prove to yourself that i am wrong and you are not guilty
[16:45:28] <theos> why not adopt a homeless kid instead of a pet?
[16:45:29] <cradek_> if you really want to find reasons to hate humans, you don't have to look far - but that's not a very good one.
[16:46:09] <Jymmm> This is though... BOYCOT SCOTTS
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/07/13733264-bird-food-maker-poisoned-product-and-birds-to-keep-insects-out
[16:46:20] <theos> heh
[16:46:21] <cradek_> also, I've been trolled; fool me twice, shame on me
[16:48:22] <theos> that guy was stupid to recall the product. dont think anyone would have caught him otherwise.
[16:50:01] <Jymmm> theos: WTF? First it's bad to buy dog food, and now it's bad for NOT being sneaky about it? If you want to keep this shit up, you are more than welcome to leave.
[16:50:32] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[16:50:49] <cradek_> Jymmm: there's an expression about feeding the troll - remember it? Something like "don't" iirc.
[16:51:19] <theos> Jymmm he already knew that he was selling poison. i never said its good to poison anything
[16:52:22] * r00t4rd3d hungry!
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[16:55:09] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[16:55:17] <Vq> hi IchGuckLive
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[17:02:14] <IchGuckLive> VQ B)
[17:03:50] <joe9> quick question: I am trying to make very dome shaped round pieces from thin sheet metal (less than 1/32 inch). I am planning on using
http://www.harborfreight.com/9-piece-punch-and-die-set-95547.html and
http://www.harborfreight.com/25-piece-doming-block-and-punch-set-93539.html
[17:04:00] <joe9> wondering if there is a better of doing something.
[17:04:04] <Jymmm> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2202033/Snap-happy-The-moment-adorable-marmot-got-lens-unattended-camera.html#ixzz26Ka5bVsk
[17:04:05] <joe9> s/something/it/
[17:04:27] <joe9> I checked out the hand held punch, but, not sure how to get a dome shape with it.
[17:04:36] <joe9> http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-Power-Punch-Sheet-Metal/dp/B0002T87CW
[17:04:42] <jdh> joe9: in general, if you want to use a tool > once or twice, get a real one instead of a HF one.
[17:05:07] <IchGuckLive> joe9: metal this is all for copper
[17:05:11] <joe9> jdh: but, at this point, I am not sure if the plan works. hence, starting off with a HF one.
[17:05:38] <joe9> IchGuckLive: copper will work for me too. It is either Cu or Al
[17:06:02] <IchGuckLive> al is not for punch
[17:06:18] <IchGuckLive> it will fail
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[17:07:11] <joe9> IchGuckLive: it is very thin.
[17:07:37] <joe9> IchGuckLive: the thickness is less than 1/32 inch
[17:08:05] <IchGuckLive> thats the case it will break at that messurment also
[17:08:19] <jdh> what will break?
[17:08:29] <IchGuckLive> the AL asheed
[17:09:01] <pcw_home> dopping tool?
[17:09:19] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9GB-q8UYA8
[17:10:46] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNmUzwwiKD8
[17:13:27] <IchGuckLive> 150hp lathe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4qB6n1cm04
[17:13:40] <IchGuckLive> Crazy canadian
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[17:14:51] <IchGuckLive> LOL
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[17:28:44] * Vq don't know how thin 1/32 inch is :(
[17:29:06] <jdh> .031250 inches of course.
[17:29:13] <Vq> :/
[17:29:35] <jdh> ~0.8mm
[17:29:50] <Vq> I see
[17:30:12] <IchGuckLive> this is realy big
[17:30:21] <IchGuckLive> so no way to trimm
[17:30:40] <IchGuckLive> as car made of 0.35
[17:30:46] <IchGuckLive> mm ofcause
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[17:53:25] <Jymmm> Knife carrying Eagle... "I'm gonna cut you real good!" Eagle says "I'm gonna cut you!"
http://www.whitewolfpack.com/2012/09/the-golden-eagle-who-carries-knife.html
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[19:35:16] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: You still around?
[19:35:33] <Jymmm> no, leave a message a the beep............
[19:35:57] <DJ9DJ> beep. memory full
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[19:39:07] <FinboySlick> I still have half a mind to build a smaller PSU for my laptop. Considering how small these are
http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-160-XT, there ought to be some sort of way to pull it off.
[19:40:51] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: You had pretty interesting input last time. What would you say is the biggest hurdle.
[19:41:15] <cradek> I miss the very old laptop style that had the power supply built in and used just a plain cord
[19:41:46] <FinboySlick> Heh, considering the size of my power brick, it would be about as big as those old laptops too.
[19:43:34] <FinboySlick> It seems the ac to dc part is the most space consuming.
[19:44:07] <FinboySlick> dc-dc PSUs are relatively compact.
[19:47:11] <skunkworks> my toshiba satelite pro 110 was that way.
[19:47:16] <skunkworks> kinda nic
[19:47:18] <skunkworks> nice
[19:47:33] <FinboySlick> I had a satellite pro too, first laptop.
[19:47:40] <FinboySlick> Very nice, it even had a quadro in it.
[19:48:24] <skunkworks> It had the little joystick for mouse on the keyboard.. sure took me a while to get used to the mouse pad in conventional laptops..
[19:48:56] <FinboySlick> skunkworks: Likewise. I still haven't given up on those. So I'm only buying Dell Precision or Lenovo.
[19:49:08] <FinboySlick> And I disable the evil evil trackpads.
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[20:06:18] <skunkworks> eh - I adapt :)
[20:06:45] <skunkworks> I do disable the pads double click.. mainly because I am shakey
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[21:12:14] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[23:43:09] <jp_> evening
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[23:49:10] <JT-Shop> and a fine one it is
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[23:53:02] <Tom_itx> nice cool rain all afternoon
[23:53:19] <JT-Shop> not a drop here
[23:53:43] <Tom_itx> we really need it
[23:53:49] <JT-Shop> I got to tune the Y axis again... forgot to save it to file... took 10 minutes including screen shots
[23:53:54] <JT-Shop> we do to
[23:54:05] <Tom_itx> you can walk across the arkansas river here
[23:55:04] <JT-Shop> wow a high of 77f saturday
[23:55:11] <Tom_itx> nice
[23:55:14] <Tom_itx> it's about time
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