#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-07-30

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[00:21:06] <Skullworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Ubuntu10.04PackageNotes - install script listed still points to EMC 2.1 Breezy
[00:29:02] <Tom_L> 1394 is parport right?
[00:29:22] <jdh> firewire
[00:29:34] <Tom_L> k
[00:29:43] <jdh> 1284? is pport
[00:30:03] <jdh> in G82, G83, what is L?
[00:30:05] <Tom_L> naw this says 1394
[00:30:22] <jdh> are you going to believe it or me?
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[00:30:35] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270977546376 looks better to me.
[00:31:59] <jdh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#_g83_peck_drilling_cycle_a_id_sec_g83_drilling_peck_a
[00:32:18] <jdh> that shows an "L-" , but doesn't say what it is.
[00:32:28] <andypugh> Skullworks: Old page, try this one: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_10_04_using_precompiled_EMC2_packages
[00:36:28] <Tom_L> jdh loop count
[00:36:52] <Tom_L> Fixed cycle loop count: Defines number of repetitions ("loops") of a fixed cycle at each position. Assumed to be 1 unless programmed with another integer. Sometimes the K address is used instead of L. With incremental positioning (G91), a series of equally spaced holes can be programmed as a loop rather than as individual positions.
[00:37:41] <andypugh> You would have to be quite brave, wouldn;t you?
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[00:38:31] <Tom_L> probably why linuxcnc doesn't mention it
[00:39:05] <r00t4rd3d> andypugh, http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-axis-remote-pendant-Ncstudio-for-CNC-router-engraving-machine-with-wire-/250948133638?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6daca306
[00:39:44] <andypugh> I saw that, but it's got a wire so that it works reliably.
[00:39:45] <jdh> Tom_L: why?
[00:39:54] <Tom_L> because they didn't
[00:40:15] <Tom_L> not a much used parameter
[00:40:56] <jdh> it is specified as an option to G82/G83, but no explantion of what it is in context.
[00:41:28] <Tom_L> but i did
[00:41:49] <Tom_L> enter an L2 and see what happens
[00:42:43] <Jymmm> Ok, I tossed something up on CL with photos for $25, some guy offers $20 and I ignore the email and a weeks goes bye. Now the guy emails me again today offer $30.
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[00:43:19] <andypugh> It is discussed in the general canned-cycle intro (section 35.3)
[00:43:47] <r00t4rd3d> andypugh, right now i use a nintendo controller
[00:43:59] <andypugh> jdh: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#_repeat_cycle
[00:45:05] <andypugh> It could be used for a canned boring cycle with a self-adjusting boring head, for example.
[00:46:57] <jdh> I did find that (eventually), wasn't sure it applied to g83 though.
[00:47:17] <jdh> There is also L - tool orientation
[00:47:21] <andypugh> G83 is a canned-cycle. I am not sure if the docs make that completely clear.
[00:48:06] <jdh> and: L- - Specifies which ends of the thread get the taper
[00:48:19] <Tom_L> The L number is optional and represents the number of repeats. L=0 is not allowed. If the repeat feature is used, it is normally used in incremental distance mode, so that the same sequence of motions is repeated in several equally spaced places along a straight line. In absolute distance mode, L > 1 means "do the same cycle in the same place several times," Omitting the L word is equivalent to specifying L=1. The L number is not sticky.
[00:48:56] <Tom_L> from RS274NGC_interpreter_v3 doc
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[01:06:46] <r00t4rd3d> jdh, cut3d is beetter then cut2d :/
[01:06:51] <r00t4rd3d> better*
[01:08:09] <r00t4rd3d> makes lots of things of thingiverse cuttable
[01:09:33] <r00t4rd3d> things on*
[01:10:22] <r00t4rd3d> double whammy
[01:12:00] <r00t4rd3d> im gonna try this nema 17 to 23 adapter
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[01:13:34] <r00t4rd3d> i need some of those white plastic restaurant cutting boards
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[01:17:33] <Skullworks> Thanks Andy, I had found that one - but put it to the acid test before I go back to fix the old page.
[01:19:32] <Skullworks> I tried to torture the system with 3 instance of glxgears + youtube, but Youtube demanded a FLASH upgrade that had to update 345 files...
[01:20:22] <Tom_L> andy has left the building
[01:20:59] <Skullworks> I vote FLASH as virus of the year - between it and Acrobat it keeps me employed keeps the sales types PC's functional.
[01:25:47] <Skullworks> "L" is also a reserved word address in most FANUC formats.
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[01:27:59] <Skullworks> But you really want to confuse someone have them try to learn Hurco Max NC - G83 Z Z Z Z Z Q F and the "Z" values are unsigned....
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[01:31:40] <Tom_L> realtime system did not load
[01:31:44] <Tom_L> ?
[01:32:29] <Tom_L> hurco are screwy
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[01:35:29] <Skullworks> yeah - but the MAX-II control cardrack comes out as a unit - and you can drop in your PC and some Pico or Mesa hardware and be up and running in under 24hrs if you don't have a toolchanger.
[01:36:18] <Skullworks> and they sell for scrap iron prices
[01:36:34] <Tom_L> i wonder why the rtapi didn't load
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[01:46:33] <r00t-Shed> http://i.imgur.com/Jvmz5.png
[01:46:36] <r00t-Shed> finish pass
[01:54:49] <Skullworks> what made the toolpath?
[01:55:43] <r00t-Shed> cut3d
[01:56:46] <Skullworks> I was looking at GRZ software mesh-cut
[01:57:15] <jdh> cut3d is not really related to cut2d
[01:57:45] <jdh> r00t: I get King StarBoard(tm) at boat stores (or any hardware store here)
[01:57:50] <r00t-Shed> made by same people
[01:58:14] <jdh> yeah, so is aspire and wtf... different methods, etc though.
[01:58:14] <r00t-Shed> functions are pretty much the same in both apps
[01:58:45] <jdh> cut3d does pockets, profiles, drills?
[01:59:27] <r00t-Shed> sure if you want, really made for cutting 3d models a 3d printer can print
[01:59:38] <r00t-Shed> top sides bottom
[01:59:45] <jdh> I didn't see any 2d ops
[02:00:00] <r00t-Shed> just do the top
[02:00:02] <tjb1> what is it r00t-Shed
[02:00:04] <r00t-Shed> 2d only
[02:00:09] <jdh> huh?
[02:00:21] <r00t-Shed> if you only cut the top, its 2d
[02:00:31] <jdh> oh. Not the same.
[02:00:41] <r00t-Shed> tjb1, a nema17 to 23 adapter
[02:01:07] <r00t-Shed> im cutting pretty much 2d with it now, cutting top only, and drilling holes
[02:02:45] <r00t-Shed> if i ever break a stepper again i have an extra 17 i can use till i get a new 23
[02:02:49] <jdh> not the same, but, whatever.
[02:03:02] <Skullworks> sounds like a good good for sheetcam
[02:03:10] <Skullworks> good job
[02:03:35] <jdh> I finally hit my vise with an end mill :(
[02:04:13] <Connor> jdh: Ouch How did you do that ?
[02:04:29] <jdh> mdi, not looking, numlock got turned off.
[02:04:39] <Skullworks> but then I still use my uber powerful BobCAD v12 for DOS - which still bbeats out the crap I pay $1000's for. :(
[02:04:46] <Connor> hurt the vise or endmill ?
[02:05:04] <jdh> made a mark on the vise, not on the edge though. End mill still cut Al ok.
[02:05:30] <Connor> was the spindle running ?
[02:05:39] <jdh> my KB has a sleep key in the upper left corner... if you hit it accidentally, you have to acknowledge some stupid dialog box before you can hit escape
[02:05:46] <jdh> 2500rpm
[02:05:54] <jdh> 3/8" end mill
[02:05:57] <Connor> Nice! :)
[02:06:38] <jdh> facing the tramming aids by hand/mdi
[02:06:50] <Connor> Cool
[02:06:52] <jdh> went Z-.25 instead of Z-.025
[02:07:07] <Connor> Ouch.
[02:08:13] <jdh> other than that, they came out ok. I don't have any 1/4-28 screws though
[02:08:39] <Connor> Don't break a tap in the column when tapping the holes! :)
[02:08:51] <jdh> heh, that woudl suck.
[02:09:01] <Connor> Cast Iron is a pain to tap.
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[02:09:25] <jdh> the X mounting holes weren't too bad
[02:09:47] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I think I just found another carbon knife, though I haven't checked the price yet =) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuWGEmqkMsg
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[02:10:10] <Connor> I broke one in the column.. managed to have enough sticking out to grip it with vise grips.. damn thing broke when I was backing it out! Go figure.
[02:10:13] <jdh> I made those 10-32 though since I had lots of 10-32 taps
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[02:11:05] <Connor> When using those tramming aids.. back off the set screw before taking each measurement..
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[02:11:56] <jdh> I still havent' really trammed the mill.
[02:12:30] <jdh> I did the head by taking .002 cuts with my big face mill.
[02:12:56] <Connor> what sort of face mill do you have ?
[02:13:06] <Connor> I got a fly cutter.. but, I think the bits suck.
[02:13:29] <jdh> import 2.5" indexable
[02:13:58] <jdh> makes really nice cuts though
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[02:14:19] <jdh> I've decided my $179 HF band saw is the best cheap chinese thing I have though.
[02:16:54] <Jymmm> jdh: Yeah, ppl are actualyl surprised by it.
[02:17:23] <jdh> I got a 'good' blade, but the stock on is still cutting fine
[02:17:38] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Well, phuk me... $275!!! We're goin the wrong way... http://stores.thepathfinderschoolllc.com/-strse-180/PLSK1-Pathfinder-1-Knife/Detail.bok
[02:17:54] <Jymmm> jdh: Yeah, just think of it as a bonus blade =)
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[02:20:53] <jdh> I need to make some screwless vise hold down clamps
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[02:28:40] <Connor> jdh: Huh ?
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[02:29:42] <jdh> http://littlemachineshop.com/Projects/ViseClamps.php
[02:29:52] <Connor> Ah.
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[02:36:23] <jdh> otoh, I haven't had a real need for that vise.
[02:36:48] <Jymmm> i hope not for a HF band saw
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[02:45:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/la-bella-luna-3d-3ds/610193
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[02:58:33] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/MGHuo.jpg
[02:59:44] <JessicaRN> what size are you cutting that?
[02:59:49] <r00t4rd3d> 12 hours to cut that lol
[03:00:09] <JessicaRN> sheesh
[03:00:15] <JessicaRN> how big?
[03:00:15] <r00t4rd3d> im not cutting it, was just messing with the program
[03:00:47] <JessicaRN> 12 hrs is the est?
[03:00:51] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[03:00:57] <JessicaRN> sucky
[03:00:57] <r00t4rd3d> it would be faster though
[03:01:38] <JessicaRN> https://anonfiles.com/file/6533ee5e4ecafd9c3b7c7fccf842256c
[03:01:52] <JessicaRN> grab that and then change the ext to .stl
[03:01:59] <tjb1> you cutting it with a .003 endmill?
[03:02:03] <JessicaRN> that's the design I'm hoping to cut
[03:02:45] <JessicaRN> (the stupid uploader wouldn't let me u/l a .stl. i had to rename it .txt)
[03:03:08] <tjb1> Well I guess you cant get enough rpm to cut at full feed ;)
[03:03:17] <r00t4rd3d> me?
[03:03:48] <JessicaRN> didn't you ask to see what i was working on earlier?
[03:03:52] <r00t4rd3d> 1/8 and 1/16 i did the simulation with
[03:04:00] <JessicaRN> oh
[03:04:03] <JessicaRN> oops
[03:04:11] <r00t4rd3d> i was talking to tjb1 sry
[03:04:15] <JessicaRN> np
[03:04:19] <tjb1> Get a better spindle/router root :)
[03:04:24] <tjb1> moar fast
[03:04:29] <r00t4rd3d> its not that
[03:04:42] <r00t4rd3d> tb6560
[03:05:01] <r00t4rd3d> i have a dewalt dwp611 router
[03:05:02] <tjb1> limits of driver eh
[03:05:41] <tjb1> only 16k-27k rpm
[03:06:15] <r00t4rd3d> JessicaRN, did you make this?
[03:06:21] <JessicaRN> yeah
[03:06:24] <JessicaRN> why?
[03:06:25] <r00t4rd3d> that would be a good one for cut3d
[03:06:51] <JessicaRN> cut3d costs $$$
[03:07:10] <tjb1> Hey r00t, g540 ;)
[03:07:20] <r00t4rd3d> gimmie money
[03:07:45] <tjb1> i dont have any
[03:07:49] <tjb1> its only $299
[03:07:56] <JessicaRN> if you get some, pass it my way. i just learned I have bunyons that need to be cut off....
[03:08:21] <tjb1> bunions?
[03:08:26] <JessicaRN> yeah
[03:08:35] <Skullworks> once you go gecko... you never want to go back
[03:08:40] <tjb1> caused by shoes?
[03:08:43] <JessicaRN> i'm dyslexic and a crappy spelr
[03:08:50] <Tom_itx> i'll 2nd Skullworks
[03:09:00] <JessicaRN> it sucks to be a nurse and have em...
[03:09:12] <tjb1> Hey r00t, its $290 at cncrp
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[03:09:33] <Tom_itx> i'm using the 203v
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[03:09:42] <jdh> what's cncrp
[03:09:51] <JessicaRN> r00t4rd3d: the toolpath for that ended up being 14M
[03:09:54] <Skullworks> its also about the time of year for the customer appreciation sale...
[03:10:09] <tjb1> Or about 270 on ebay if you are feelin lucky
[03:10:16] <tjb1> jdh: www.cncrouterparts.com
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[03:11:24] <jdh> $250 at keling
[03:11:38] <jdh> he used to do 239 on ebay
[03:12:21] <Skullworks> I need to learn the accel formula so I can write a indexer driver app for an Arduino for my Hurco.
[03:12:52] <r00t4rd3d> JessicaRN, http://i.imgur.com/B3vfs.jpg
[03:13:12] <r00t4rd3d> i changed the size
[03:13:33] <jdh> you can do 240ipm?
[03:13:52] <JessicaRN> what size did you make it?
[03:14:05] <r00t4rd3d> like 4.5x4.5
[03:14:38] <r00t4rd3d> Ìû
[03:14:51] <JessicaRN> it was in mm to start with. you made it 4.5mm?
[03:14:51] <tjb1> Anyone know what program this is in? http://i.imgur.com/I8iV3l.jpg
[03:14:59] <r00t4rd3d> no i changed to inches
[03:15:07] <JessicaRN> k
[03:15:22] <jdh> tjb1: looks like inventor
[03:15:53] <Skullworks> Rhino?
[03:15:54] <jdh> at least the floating toolbar on the right
[03:16:24] <jdh> maybe not, that top icon isfunky
[03:16:37] <r00t4rd3d> JessicaRN, https://anonfiles.com/file/161b66e9b838eb16ed3e950c5f2ecbbe
[03:16:43] <r00t4rd3d> look at that in linuxcnc
[03:16:50] <r00t4rd3d> those*
[03:17:23] <jdh> r00t: what size end mill is that for?
[03:17:38] <r00t4rd3d> rough was with a 1/8 endmill, finish 1/16 ball end
[03:17:51] <Tom_itx> where do you get them?
[03:17:58] <Tom_itx> and what size shank do they have?
[03:18:20] <r00t4rd3d> who me?
[03:18:28] <Tom_itx> ya u
[03:18:38] <r00t4rd3d> ebay, 1/8 shank
[03:18:48] <JessicaRN> what did you gen the toolpath with?
[03:18:55] <r00t4rd3d> cut3d
[03:18:59] <JessicaRN> shit
[03:19:04] <Tom_itx> i have trouble getting ballnose that small locally
[03:19:10] <jdh> tjbl: that toolbar is in inventor fusion... free download.
[03:19:56] <tjb1> free?
[03:20:09] <JessicaRN> r00t4rd3d: ty
[03:20:12] <Connor> tjb1: Confirm. That's inventor.
[03:20:22] <tjb1> Thanks
[03:20:38] <tjb1> Free as in free, or the free 1 year student deal
[03:20:48] <jdh> inventor fusion is free, plain inventor isn't (Other than student)
[03:21:02] <tjb1> Whats the difference?
[03:21:21] <jdh> dunno
[03:21:50] <tjb1> And even free on the mac app store, wonderful!
[03:22:22] <JessicaRN> r00t4rd3d: would you do me a fav? rescale the original to 10" dia and then reg it for me?
[03:22:34] <JessicaRN> regen
[03:22:44] <tjb1> Im confused with cable and rf shielding, should you just connect 1 shield end to ground or both ends?
[03:22:53] <jdh> one end only
[03:23:36] <tjb1> http://www.automation.siemens.com/doconweb/pdf/840C_1101_E/emv_r.pdf?p=1
[03:23:46] <tjb1> This in secton 6 says both ends should be connected though
[03:24:11] <tjb1> "The best shielding effect is achieved by
[03:24:11] <tjb1> connecting the shield to ground at both ends"
[03:24:12] <jdh> not for shielding, for keeping ground potential the same maybe
[03:24:57] <Tom_itx> not necessarily true
[03:25:09] <Tom_itx> typically you leave one end of a shield open
[03:25:31] <jdh> that's what I've always seen/done/read also.
[03:25:50] <jdh> but... I'd assume they do know better than me.
[03:26:08] <jdh> or this is just for one particular config?
[03:26:20] <Tom_itx> i forget exactly why but it may cause ringing or false grounds. i'm not exactly sure
[03:26:26] <tjb1> "As a general rule, the cable shield must be connected at both ends in a 360°,
[03:26:26] <tjb1> conductive contact with the enclosure to ensure that the cable is immune to HF
[03:26:27] <tjb1> interference."
[03:26:33] <tjb1> Sorry, that was copy and pasted...
[03:27:50] <tjb1> But everything I have read on the forum says to ground 1 end
[03:28:12] <theorbtwo> I think in general, you want to make sure that the lowest-resistance ground available to your case is the earth ground, not the case of some other appliance, I think.
[03:28:25] <theorbtwo> The easy way to do that is to not connect the case grounds.
[03:28:49] <theorbtwo> That's my possibly bad recollection and distilation, though.
[03:29:14] <Tom_itx> there is signal ground and frame ground
[03:29:19] <Tom_itx> and star ground
[03:29:38] <Tom_itx> star is good, all wires come back to a common point
[03:29:47] <Tom_itx> not looped from one to the next to the next
[03:30:20] <Tom_itx> signal ground is just that, it completes an electrical path and must follow all the way to it's destination
[03:30:32] <jdh> this is just rf shielding
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[03:30:57] <Tom_itx> frame ground is more for noise lowering and i believe should only be grounded on one end
[03:31:02] <Tom_itx> of a cable
[03:31:32] <r00t4rd3d> JessicaRN, here is your 10 inches : https://anonfiles.com/file/6a414b0c8061c207d8b2b5ad53f0f39e
[03:31:57] <JessicaRN> omg....
[03:32:01] <tjb1> So I should have a bolt or stud somewhere in my electronics box and ground everything to this single point
[03:32:04] <JessicaRN> you just had to say that...
[03:32:13] <r00t4rd3d> opps
[03:32:56] <r00t4rd3d> now show me your bunyons
[03:32:59] <Tom_itx> tjb1 a good idea
[03:33:18] <tjb1> Alright, I wont be able to get to the stepper cables as they are pre made but I will take every other ground there
[03:33:23] <Tom_itx> also on my steppers i ran individual power lines to each driver
[03:33:57] <Tom_itx> and rewired my steppers with 18/4 shielded wire
[03:34:26] <Tom_itx> all the limit switches are shielded
[03:35:03] <tjb1> I have inductive prox for my limit/homing
[03:35:21] <jdh> tjb1: any problems with metal chips triggering them?
[03:35:23] <tjb1> Should I be homing both steppers on a dual motor setup?
[03:35:28] <Tom_itx> i should have something better but it's what came with it originally
[03:35:31] <tjb1> Havent got the table together yet jdh
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[03:35:48] <Tom_itx> tjb1 i'm not sure how they recomend doing that
[03:35:49] <JessicaRN> i once asked a guy to send me a pic of one of his tattos. he said he would if i sent him a pic of my breasts. i shoulda known it would be tit for tat...
[03:36:00] <Tom_itx> i think they both get the same step signals
[03:36:15] <jdh> I have a prox on my X home/limit. I dumped some big Al chips on it and it was fine. tried some smaller ones and it triggered.
[03:36:15] <tjb1> So once I get them initially aligned it should be fine
[03:36:47] <tjb1> I was just going to place a bolt in line with the sensor on each end to trigger it and let it ride along
[03:36:51] <jdh> I think a 2mm plexi shield on top will keep the chips far enough way but still let the steel bolt trip it.
[03:38:08] <tjb1> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/12-needle-thrust-bearing-and-washers-p-86.html
[03:38:09] <tjb1> oops
[03:39:21] <tjb1> Im trying to find a way to keep splatter out of this
[03:39:57] <tjb1> http://www.goldeno.com/pictures/Img07848.JPG
[03:40:53] <Jymmm> plastic bag?
[03:41:00] <tjb1> Has a bunch of ball bearings exposed on the back of it
[03:41:24] <jdh> no wipers?
[03:41:51] <tjb1> it will wipe the rail but the back is exposed
[03:42:49] <tjb1> Maybe see if I can find a way to attach bristles to it
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[07:00:11] <DJ9DJ> moin
[07:04:41] * Skullworks /quit Work comes soon enough.
[07:05:18] <DJ9DJ> bye skully
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[10:28:15] <pingufan> Hello, does somebody here use a CF card as harddisk replacement? I want to install a 8GB CF into my PC because my 2.5" HDD died unexpectedly (doesn't spin).
[10:29:05] <pingufan> It has a read and write speed of >20MB/s.
[10:30:15] <pingufan> Does linuxcnc permanently do write operations on the disk (and write the CF dead this way in short time), or does it use the disk more or less for booting only?
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[10:32:22] <archivist> it stores settings on exit, a few use flash drives on their cnc's
[10:32:57] <pingufan> So using a CF card with an IDE-CF adapter should work fine?
[10:34:48] <archivist> I would also make sure you have enough ram so it does not attempt to swap
[10:35:32] <pingufan> Is 2GB sufficient?
[10:35:41] <pingufan> (RAM)
[10:36:05] <archivist> should be if you are not running a server and 50 open windows on firefox
[10:36:42] <pingufan> So it does not write logfiles all the time?
[10:37:17] <archivist> linux does write logfiles
[10:37:44] <pingufan> I know. But is there a way to redirect them to /dev/null ?
[10:38:04] <pingufan> Or is this more or less harmless?
[10:38:29] <archivist> for what definition of harmless :)
[10:38:45] <pingufan> writing the CF dead with permanent I/O
[10:40:44] <archivist> you could create a memory fs and shove logs there, would get dropped on power off but be usable for error checking
[10:42:33] <archivist> is your machine hobby or production
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[10:49:40] <pingufan> Hobby - But this does not mean that I don't want a stable system ;)
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[10:50:45] <archivist> well for hobby think how much on time and power cycles, will it be possible to get near the cf write limit
[10:51:06] <pingufan> FYI - I do an NFS mount of my server, and THERE are all CNC jobs. So the mill itself is actually relatively static.
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[10:52:43] <archivist> I think someone did a wiki article on a flash drive
[10:55:13] <pingufan> I think I will start with a normal setup and watch the log files. If there are too many writing operations, I also can NFS-mount a share for /var/log and this way relocate writes to my server.
[10:56:47] <pingufan> But I have another more urgent thing. I repeatedly got RTAPI errors. You must know that I operate the mill through vncview from my workstation, too. This surely causes some network traffic which has to be handled in addition. As this errors don't cause any troubles, can I suppress them?
[10:58:48] <archivist> you should explore why you get rtapi errors
[10:59:27] <pingufan> VIA C3 CPU, 1000 MHz (EPIA-M mainboard) is not very powerful. ;)
[10:59:50] <pingufan> But works very stable.
[11:00:35] <archivist> it does not need "power", it needs low/consistent latency
[11:01:30] <pingufan> Cannot really change much on a "all-on-board" system.
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[11:02:56] <pingufan> Luckily this message is suppressed automatically after it appeared once. Currently I simply klick it away and proceed as I don't loose steps.
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[12:57:24] <pingufan> archivist: Did you mean this wiki for installing linuxcnc on CF-Card? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Install_To_CompactFlash
[12:57:29] <Tom_itx> realtime system did not load
[12:57:35] <Tom_itx> was the error i got last night
[12:58:38] <archivist> pingufan, yes
[12:59:37] <pingufan> Ok. This describes the installation of a normal Ubuntu. Translated to the Linux-CNC iso, It assume I simply install it as usual and then edit /etc/fstab and I am done. Right?
[13:01:36] <pingufan> ^- Mean that I could boot the liveCD and choose "Install on harddisk" from desktop?
[13:03:27] <pingufan> Tomorrow the CF-IDE-adapter and the CF-Cards will arrive, then I can try it out. But want to be prepared.
[13:04:20] <pingufan> I took 8GB cards. Is 4GB really sufficient? 4GB shows up as minimum system requirement, but I remember having read somewhere that this is too low.
[13:05:10] <psha[work]> it's ok
[13:05:36] <pingufan> 4GB would have been sufficient?
[13:07:44] <psha[work]> yes if you won't install kde, openoffice and games
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[13:11:33] <pingufan> psha[work]: Self-explaining. ;)
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[13:24:48] <pingufan> Thanks for your help. Have to leave.
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[14:17:03] <WillenCMD> I almost have my stepper drive working... Im using an irf540 mosfet, and i can't seem to get it to completely turn off
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[14:19:43] <cpresser> WillenCMD: how are you driving the Gates?
[14:20:14] <Jymmm> Windows
[14:20:33] <WillenCMD> im using a 4n38 opto, and dividing the 24volt power supply down to 12 feeding the 12v through to the collector and emitter on the opto
[14:21:36] <Jymmm> dividing how?
[14:21:43] <WillenCMD> resistor's
[14:21:58] <WillenCMD> voltage divider
[14:22:09] <WillenCMD> something i just learned about this weekend
[14:23:21] <jdh> WillenCMD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Electronics
[14:23:26] <jdh> best book ever, IMO
[14:23:48] <awallin> horowitz-hill starts to be a bit old ... :)
[14:23:49] <WillenCMD> i have a couple i got from the local store, but they just barely touch base on mosfet's
[14:24:17] <jdh> awallin: not bleeding edge, but all still useful
[14:27:07] <archivist> horrible shitz and hill
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[14:27:33] <archivist> not enough detail for real work
[14:27:49] <jdh> define real in this context?
[14:28:11] <WillenCMD> i'll whip up a schematic
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[14:28:16] <archivist> anything I ever wanted to look up
[14:28:34] <jdh> like a voltage divider?
[14:29:06] <archivist> jdh I have other books to compare it with :)
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[14:29:41] <jdh> ^shrug^ it is, IMO and excellent resource for me. Very readable and understandable.
[14:29:51] <jdh> that is probably the "Art" part
[14:31:23] <Jymmm> http://frank.harvard.edu/aoe/uses.htm
[14:32:41] <djdelorie> WillenCMD: the problem with a resistor divider, is that the opto also acts like a resistor, messing up your math
[14:32:58] <cpresser> WillenCMD: and you want to driver steppers with that signal? you should be aware of the fact that those optocoplers are not very fast, and the IRF540 has a decent gate capacity
[14:33:22] <cpresser> you would better use a 'driver' for the FETs, like a 7406 (or whatever)
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[14:34:28] <Jymmm> https://www.google.com/search?q=ULN2803
[14:34:44] <Jymmm> I love those lil things =)
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[14:36:09] <archivist> why not get a proper current limiting stepper driver
[14:36:22] <Jymmm> http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14006482-stepper_motor_driver_board_uln2003_for_arduino_4-phase_5-line.html
[14:38:20] <Jymmm> http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14004267-dc_4-phase_5-wire_uln2003_driver_board_test_board_for_stepper_motor.html
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[14:49:09] <L84Supper> for in stock items at Suntek, how long do orders take to arrive?
[14:50:37] <L84Supper> http://www.futurlec.com/index.shtml always seems to take 30 days
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[14:55:26] <djdelorie> my control loops are happier now: http://www.delorie.com/cnc/pos-PI-1.html
[14:56:02] <jdh> is that no-load?
[14:56:23] <djdelorie> negligible load, but also a 48v power supply instead of the regular one
[14:56:38] <djdelorie> obviously I'll have to retune them once they're in the real machine
[14:57:28] <djdelorie> and fix the overshoot. It's only 1/2 "step" (wrt a 200-step stepper) but it should be less
[14:57:53] <djdelorie> it's mostly due to wind-up while the power supply is pegged, so it might just go away with the bigger power supply
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[14:59:22] <djdelorie> er, "Pos" is encoder counts (400/rot), PosI is RPM
[14:59:26] <djdelorie> 4000/rot that is
[14:59:58] <jdh> nice response
[15:00:48] <djdelorie> thanks. I don't think it counts if it only works well on the bench, though ;-)
[15:01:31] <djdelorie> but at least the motor doesn't hum when it's supposed to be idle :-)
[15:02:03] <jdh> yeah, weird/uneven/cyclical load changes, directional changes with force, etc all make unloaded motor tuning look good.
[15:03:13] <jdh> I have some auto-tuning software for PMACS that defaults to a fractional rev for auto-tuning.
[15:03:59] <archivist> bit of real world mass and friction will make a difference :)
[15:04:56] <djdelorie> hopefully a *good* difference :-)
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[15:07:38] <archivist> for any brits near liverpool fleabay 320954719082
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[15:09:40] <archivist> his pictures and description do not do it justice
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[15:30:30] <Jymmm> Anyone know the significance of "2 Dot" ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/NM-VINTAGE-70S-BUCK-112-USA-2DOT-LOCKBACK-FOLDING-HUNTER-BOWIE-KNIFE-KNIVES-OLD-/320951742210?pt=Collectible_Knives&hash=item4aba36ef02
[15:37:47] <jdh> looks like a date specifier
[15:38:18] <Jymmm> Thanks. I have one, and never knew =)
[15:38:33] <jdh> I have one like that somewhere
[15:39:16] <Jymmm> Buck 112 or 110 ? The 110 was more popular at the time, but more expensive
[15:39:59] <jdh> dunno, it's a buck folder, blade is maybe 2.5-3"
[15:40:09] <Jymmm> ah
[15:41:55] <Jymmm> I'm looking at the snap button on the sheath; it's all scratched up. I'm like, how the hell did that happen?! Then I remembered... I was wearing it when a lady decided to make a left trun in front of my when I was riding my motorcycle and had to dump the bike. Slide across about 20ft, the bike about 40ft =)
[15:42:08] <jdh> anyone have drawings/models/code for a rasberry pi case?
[15:43:30] <Jymmm> I kinda like that; JT-Shop can you do that on your plasma? http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Buck-110-Bear-C-O-w-MACASSAR-Ebony-Dymonwood-Handle-Hunt-USA-Knife-BUILD-OUT-/150864258318?pt=Collectible_Knives&hash=item232035e50e
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[15:48:24] <JT-Shop> no, that is waterjet
[15:50:47] <Jymmm> ah
[15:51:03] <Jymmm> ok, why not?
[15:51:39] <cpresser> plasma cant do such fine structures; the 'plasma-ray' is to large
[15:51:53] <Jymmm> ah
[15:56:02] <JT-Shop> and small details just melt away...
[15:56:52] <Jymmm> Sounds like the different lenses on my laser give a different kerf.
[15:57:48] <Jymmm> but a plasma doesn't have that option
[16:01:52] <JT-Shop> well you have different nozzles for different amperages
[16:03:11] <Valen> also the magnetics of whats being cut can affect it too
[16:05:35] <Jymmm> Is a plasma all or nothing? Cut all the way thru, or can it engrave/carve too?
[16:05:48] <JT-Shop> you can gouge
[16:06:17] <Jymmm> cleanly or as a roughish mark?
[16:06:35] <JT-Shop> never done it
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[16:08:07] <syyl> a fineplasma setup might do it
[16:08:08] <Jymmm> might be interesting to find out, either as an outline or even rough text, a signature of sorts
[16:08:17] <syyl> such fine details
[16:08:38] <syyl> but it realy looks more like a laser, or even wire edm job to me..
[16:09:24] <JT-Shop> I have fine cut nozzle for my plasma and it will cut up to 10ga
[16:11:03] <JT-Shop> yea, might be edm... the eye would be fun
[16:11:21] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Heh, you need a waterjet =) http://i.ebayimg.com/t/NEW-Buck-110-Bear-C-O-w-MACASSAR-Ebony-Dymonwood-Handle-Hunt-USA-Knife-BUILD-OUT-/00/s/OTU2WDE2MDA=/$T2eC16JHJGwE9n%29ySd8KBQCMinilL!~~60_57.JPG
[16:11:26] <syyl> or juwelears saw..
[16:11:36] <cpresser> i am not sure a laser can cut such details
[16:11:42] <syyl> it can
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[16:11:59] <cpresser> no problem`s with 'melting'
[16:12:06] <syyl> i had a tour at trumpf
[16:12:15] <syyl> they build press brakes and laser cutters
[16:12:25] <syyl> and they have demo parts that are pretty detailed
[16:12:44] <syyl> a small bicycle cut from 1,5mm stainless
[16:12:48] <archivist> I had to do a drawing for an internal gear to be cut by laser... .2 mod 120 teeth
[16:12:57] * cpresser once send a resume to trumph. applied for a student intership
[16:13:02] <syyl> it was about 15mm long
[16:13:27] <syyl> the rims/tires where less than 1mm broad
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[16:14:02] <syyl> ah
[16:14:07] <syyl> and I finally got my package from weldingtipsandtricks..
[16:14:23] <syyl> after three weeks to pass the customs..
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[16:14:47] <syyl> thats it for "priority mail"
[16:15:30] <Jymmm> syyl: from / to ?
[16:15:39] <syyl> usa to germany
[16:15:50] <Jymmm> ah
[16:16:26] <syyl> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/IMAG0006.jpg
[16:16:26] <archivist> took a week to get some gears here from the states
[16:16:29] <syyl> but i am happy :D
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[16:16:56] <jdh> what are they white things?
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[16:17:17] <syyl> its called a tig finger
[16:17:26] <Jymmm> fibergalss tubing?
[16:17:29] <syyl> to prevent burning your finger while proping against the part you are welding
[16:17:50] <syyl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3IroU5dv8A
[16:18:02] <Jymmm> braided fiberglass tubing?
[16:18:09] <syyl> i think so
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[16:20:03] <syyl> looked like a great product, so i ordered a few for me and some friends
[16:20:15] <jdh> they aren't gloves, just tubes?
[16:20:29] <syyl> a "tube" closed in the front
[16:20:41] <syyl> you put it over a finger of the glove
[16:21:15] <jdh> oh, I see about halfway through the video
[16:21:29] <Jymmm> Heh, you need an 'Ove Glove' =) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4gAisJuZrw
[16:22:13] <jdh> I have one of those, it is a pain to put on
[16:23:36] <Jymmm> Kinda expensive for $20/each, but I guess it really does work =)
[16:23:45] <Jymmm> not a pair, EACH.
[16:24:00] <syyl> but for tig welding you want a very thin glove..
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[16:25:30] <Jymmm> Well just burn your fingers then use the ove glove, that should make your fingers sensative enough =)
[16:25:58] <syyl> doesnt sound like a good way of doing it ;)
[16:26:33] <Jymmm> are mass production sheet metal shops CNC today, or mostly manual?
[16:26:52] <syyl> cnc
[16:27:17] <syyl> punching, laser, bending, ...
[16:27:18] <syyl> all cnc
[16:27:30] <syyl> bending even automated with robots
[16:28:14] <Jymmm> I have a flat piece of aluminum flashing that I need cut to size and holes/slot punched in it. Also, would like lettering stamped on the surface. Does that does easy enough?
[16:28:37] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+o cradek] by ChanServ
[16:28:49] <syyl> thats more one off job?
[16:28:50] cradek changed topic of #linuxcnc to: LinuxCNC is a linux-based opensource CNC control. | Latest release: 2.5.1 | http://www.linuxcnc.org | http://wiki.linuxcnc.org | Name change? http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/32195
[16:29:05] <skunkworks_> yay again
[16:29:10] <Jymmm> syyl: Well, I need 20 to 100 of them
[16:29:26] <syyl> ah ok
[16:29:33] <syyl> laser and cnc press brake..
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[16:29:41] <syyl> or laser/punch and cnc press brake..
[16:29:45] <Jymmm> whats the brake for?
[16:29:59] <syyl> bend..
[16:30:04] <syyl> but as i read again
[16:30:06] <Jymmm> it's flat,
[16:30:08] <syyl> there is no bending :D
[16:30:22] <Jymmm> But I do need leetering stamps on the surface
[16:30:25] <Jymmm> lettering
[16:30:31] <Jymmm> stamped
[16:30:35] <syyl> the laser can engrave
[16:30:42] <syyl> but its not great
[16:30:58] <Jymmm> No, has to be stamped so it shows on the reverse.
[16:31:10] <syyl> then you need a dedicaded tool
[16:31:18] <syyl> like a dogtag?
[16:31:18] <Jymmm> nah
[16:31:26] <Jymmm> kinda
[16:31:44] <Jymmm> It doesnt have to be deep, just show
[16:31:49] <syyl> http://bilder.afterbuy.de/images/2563/schlagzahl1.jpg
[16:31:52] <syyl> get this ;)
[16:31:52] <cpresser> there are stamps for letters/number you can combine
[16:32:08] <cpresser> for 20-100 its cheaper than a dedicated tool
[16:32:16] <Jymmm> syyl: AH, already have that, this is way too much text for that.
[16:32:34] <Jymmm> Think graduation marks
[16:32:35] <syyl> always whining ;)
[16:32:52] <Jymmm> 8 12 16 20 24 oz, etc
[16:33:02] <syyl> personaly i would machine a simple punch
[16:33:16] <syyl> heat threat it and use it in a arbor press or something
[16:33:19] <Jymmm> the large copy can be engraved no problem
[16:35:48] <syyl> saturday was a good day again :D
[16:35:49] <syyl> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/Grillen%26Gie%C3%9Fen/IMG_0799.JPG
[16:36:00] <syyl> every day with that much fire and molten metal is a good day
[16:36:36] <syyl> by night its just more impressive..
[16:36:36] <syyl> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/Grillen%26Gie%C3%9Fen/IMG_0802.JPG
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[16:54:38] <IchGuckLive> Hi all around the globe
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[17:28:09] jthornton_ is now known as jthornton
[17:28:42] <jthornton> in the gladevcp sample file hitcounter.py what does debug = 1 do?
[17:30:23] <IchGuckLive> tell you in a terminal start if the system work
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[17:30:44] <jthornton> are there any options?
[17:30:56] <IchGuckLive> 0
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[17:32:48] <jthornton> I don't see any difference in the terminal
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[17:37:27] <jthornton> crap, I can't even get a simple gladevcp button to work
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[17:47:23] <IchGuckLive> jthornton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0xycYiyn1M
[17:51:59] <JT-Shop> neat!
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[17:56:59] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIgkcrsikF0 nice homemade with toolchanger
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[17:57:22] <IchGuckLive> alot of moves at the toolchange
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[18:07:24] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[18:07:29] <Connor> anyone know anything about these push-to-connect air fittings ?
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[18:10:23] <Connor> like does the blue, or purple, black etc indicate anything specific for the fitting ?
[18:11:22] <Jymmm> there are two type ithat I recall, one of them is suppose to work for both.
[18:11:39] <Connor> IchGuckLive: Wow.. LOTS of movement for the tool change... Way too complicated.. way over designed.
[18:11:45] <Jymmm> and slightly more expensive
[18:12:04] <Connor> the coolest thing I see is the cam design for the drawbar. neat approach.
[18:12:19] <djdelorie> Everything comes in three sizes: Regular, Standard, and Universal.
[18:12:45] <Connor> djdelorie: Huh ?
[18:12:56] <djdelorie> it was a joke ;-)
[18:14:42] <IchGuckLive> Connor: O.O B) if you got tome and money why not
[18:14:59] <IchGuckLive> Connor: you can burn up all axis controls on this
[18:15:06] <Jymmm> I need laser crosshairs like that
[18:15:19] <Jymmm> 3D crosshairs =)
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[18:18:48] <Connor> Just trying to figure out the best ID diameter hose to use for my air cylinder.
[18:19:03] <Jymmm> 4"
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[18:20:07] <frallzor> ahoyhoy
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[18:22:55] <Jymmm> you would think the tool changer could be at the end of the table, instead of an arm. Just realy slow changing tools.
[18:23:13] <frallzor> fake anodizing, anyone remember how to? =)
[18:23:19] <tom3p> the build on the minimill IchGuch posted http://homepage2.nifty.com/h-yusa/mini_cnc/colamu.html
[18:23:21] <frallzor> just want to matte the alu down
[18:23:34] <Jymmm> frallzor: wire cup brush =)
[18:23:43] <Jymmm> and a corded drill =)
[18:23:44] <frallzor> nah its a bath of somekind
[18:24:09] <Jymmm> Mr Bubbles?
[18:24:35] <frallzor> mr bubbles?
[18:25:30] <Jymmm> Question, is there any benefit in anodizing aluminum flashing if it's going to be exposed to 1200F degrees?
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[18:32:48] <cncbasher> aluminium melts at around 1220F so i doubt it
[18:33:18] <Jymmm> So it's gonna oxidize no matter what?
[18:33:21] <cncbasher> depends on how radiant the heat is i'd suspect
[18:33:37] <cncbasher> yes
[18:33:57] <cncbasher> i doubt it would last long at that temperature
[18:34:00] <Jymmm> more of a heat shield than anything else.
[18:35:06] <cncbasher> i'd be using stainless at those temps , if i have to rely on it
[18:35:34] <cncbasher> as stainless will stand up to 2000
[18:35:43] <tom3p> using a std roller tool cart for his controller http://homepage2.nifty.com/h-yusa/mini_cnc/comp1.jpg close the damn lid and keep it clean
[18:36:10] <Jymmm> oK if I'm using .01" aluminum, what would be the equiv in SS as far as flexability/rigidity?
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[18:37:45] <Jymmm> cncbasher: I need the "sprinyness" the aluminum offers; mostly it's ability to "spring back" when curved.
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[18:39:06] <andypugh> Huh? Aluminium is about the worst possible material in that regard. Perhaps lead is worse.
[18:39:34] <cncbasher> stainless of around the same gauge will be fine
[18:39:49] <andypugh> Titanium is good too.
[18:39:58] <Jymmm> cncbasher: If I take the aluminum and form a 'U' around a 4" pipe, I need it to "spring back" to almost flat +- couple of inches
[18:41:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: Insert your Platnium Credit Card here --> [ ]
[18:41:40] <cncbasher> at those thin gauge size most should spring back easily
[18:41:43] <andypugh> Platinum might work. I don't know much about it's properties. I have a feeling that Rhodoim might suit.
[18:41:46] <Jymmm> andypugh: isn't totanium brittle?
[18:42:00] <Jymmm> titanium
[18:42:07] <andypugh> No, not at all. It is what they make those super-flexible spectacles out of.
[18:42:16] <djdelorie> and ipad cases
[18:42:30] <Jymmm> djdelorie: never touch the stuff
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[18:44:43] <cncbasher> .01 is just around shim steel sizes , so quite flexable i would have thought
[18:45:06] <cncbasher> i'll grab some tomorrow and see how it bends around a 4" pipe
[18:45:09] <Jymmm> I need more springy than flexable though
[18:46:23] <Jymmm> especially after being exposed to 1200F for typically 20 minutes at a time or so.
[18:46:24] <andypugh> And Aluminium is about as non-springy as it comes.
[18:46:44] <Jymmm> andypugh: Well it is so far, but I haven't added the heat yet =)
[18:47:00] <andypugh> Definitely Titanium then.
[18:47:22] <Jymmm> I don't think I can afford that.
[18:47:26] <cncbasher> aluminium would just fracture over time
[18:47:33] <andypugh> I think that 1200F will _melt_ Alumnium
[18:47:43] <cncbasher> yes it will
[18:48:12] <Jymmm> Yeah, I'l look at SS instead; any grade?
[18:48:22] <djdelorie> Aluminum foil - the Kingy of Springy! ;-)
[18:48:30] <andypugh> Jymmm: How big do you need?
[18:48:31] <cncbasher> i'd just go with 316
[18:49:04] <bryanjb> if anyone would be interested in fielding a question about encoder phase sigs from HM2, i would be most obliged..
[18:49:16] <Jymmm> andypugh: finished size is 6" x 12" @ 0.010".
[18:49:17] <cncbasher> even shim steel probably will do you also
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[18:51:01] <andypugh> Can you afford $12.50 to experiment with the wrong size? http://www.ebay.com/itm/TITANIUM-GRADE-4-SHEET-04-X-4-X-12-/150863252380
[18:51:32] <andypugh> Beryllium copper might be another good choice
[18:52:10] <syyl_> another theoretical question from Jymmm? ;)
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[18:52:40] <Jymmm> andypugh: That migh be interesting, though I have nfc how to fab titanium =)
[18:52:46] <andypugh> You might imagine that a metrology company could spell "metrology" http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/spare-parts.html
[18:53:42] <andypugh> Jymmm: TIG, it welds nicely but you need to shield the back face too. Spot-welding works nicely too (self-shielding, you see)
[18:54:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: tig for welding or cutting?
[18:54:22] <skunkworks_> andypugh, with your arduino interface - a realtime pendon could be made...
[18:54:37] <Jymmm> skunkworks_: I think many have already.
[18:54:56] <Jymmm> even with 2x16 LCD's
[18:55:09] <skunkworks_> Jymmm, those are usb though
[18:55:15] <Jymmm> ah
[18:55:20] <andypugh> <revises down Jymmm's IQ after two dumb comments in 2 minutes>
[18:55:55] <Jymmm> andypugh: which two?
[18:56:18] <andypugh> Unless TIG cutting is some provess with whith I have heretofore been unaware.
[18:56:45] <andypugh> <not to self, check spelling when accusing someone of being dumb>
[18:57:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: Since I've never touched a tig, I don't know.
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[18:57:58] <skunkworks_> andypugh, have you tried out your encoder yet?
[18:58:00] <andypugh> OK, TIG is welding. Plasma is cutting (and the machines are similar enough that you can get equipment that can be converted between the two, to be fair)
[18:58:06] <pcw_home> bryanjb: I can possibly answer HM2 questions...
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[18:58:37] <andypugh> skunkworks_: The new one? Not yet. Wiring up the plugs and testing it is the job for tonight.
[18:59:17] <skunkworks_> andypugh, cool!
[19:00:35] <andypugh> Hmm: http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/magnetic-linear-encoder-reading-head-1-micron-resolution.html
[19:00:59] <skunkworks_> it would be interesting to see what happens if you rotate it back and forth less 2 counts. (or there abouts)
[19:02:25] <andypugh> I am sure there must be many uses for this: http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/high-accuracy-magnetic-linear-tape.html
[19:02:27] <skunkworks_> on our micorn scale - looks like the head was bad.. (optical)
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[19:14:28] <andypugh> I am going to need an end-bracket for the ballscrew on my milling machine. This will probably be an iron casting (why do things by halves?
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[19:14:55] <andypugh> I am thinking of incorporating an inverted BT30 taper in that, for tool-tightening.
[19:15:47] <andypugh> It then occurs to me that the socket in question could have an adjacent reference flat surface to sit a height gauge on. Does anyone see any reason this isn't a great idea?
[19:16:03] <djdelorie> but wait, there's more...
[19:17:28] <andypugh> Boring the accurate taper into a large casting might be an interesting challenge.
[19:29:56] <cradek> all you need is a hole the major size of the taper and the two keys
[19:30:51] <cradek> well if you want to set tool length I guess you do need the taper
[19:31:07] <cradek> you sure don't need all of it though
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[20:03:44] <bryanjb> hi pcw - thought i'd try here rather than bugging you again by phone ;)
[20:07:32] <PCW> ok
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[20:19:30] <Tom_itxs> andypugh any idea why i would get this error: realtime system did not load
[20:19:38] <Tom_itxs> fresh live cd install 10.04
[20:22:17] <JT-Shop> andypugh: you mean something like this? http://imagebin.org/222638
[20:23:35] <jdh> hey, I have that coffee 'can'!
[20:23:46] <JT-Shop> left side is for torquing the pull studs
[20:23:50] <Jymmm> <rimshot>
[20:23:58] <JT-Shop> it has tomatoes in it for little Rickey
[20:24:08] <JT-Shop> my pet 3 toed box turtle
[20:24:14] <bryanjb> using pncconf, adding mpg and pwm spindle output, wondering if mpg encoder (phase in), pwm (dir out), sigs/pins are internally id'd. can't find it in the docs.
[20:24:23] <jdh> mine have .45 brass in them.
[20:24:36] <JT-Shop> I have a lot of brass in some too
[20:24:57] <Jymmm> I've been saving every metal coffee can I get my hands on. I figure in a a couple of months they'll be extinct!
[20:25:40] <JT-Shop> bryanjb: cmorley keeps tabs on the pncconf forum more than here
[20:26:41] <bryanjb> thanks JT - not sure what you mean by more than here - forum on linuxcnc.org?
[20:27:45] <bryanjb> and looking on further info on connecting to raw HM2_pci sigs from mesa cards
[20:27:46] <r00t4rd3d> yeah , there is a sub forum for pnconf
[20:28:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=showcat&catid=39
[20:28:31] <r00t4rd3d> there
[20:28:47] <JT-Shop> yes the forum on linuxcnc.ord has a pncconf section that the author moderates
[20:30:38] <jdh> bryanjb: not sure if I really understand what you are asking, but the pins you have defined are listed in dmesg and you can map those to terminals via the mesa docs
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[20:31:45] <bryanjb> got it, thanks. aside on HM2 stuff, i'm missing (and its probably obvious) how some sigs connect on modules like encoder and pwmgen. somewhat different than std HAL.
[20:33:00] <bryanjb> dmesg, the pncconf readme, HM2 pins, and HAL conf seem to agree. are the specific labels usable?
[20:33:11] <JT-Shop> the only thing different are the pin names yes?
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[20:33:41] <JT-Shop> bryanjb: can you run the config?
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[20:35:13] <bryanjb> JT, just now sorting out my additional wiring in custom.hal. pncconf config runs fine. i can kill it quick with the custom.hal attempt *not a programmer, unfortunately*
[20:35:47] <JT-Shop> all the pins are listed in Machine > Show Hal Configuration
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[20:37:06] <JT-Shop> bryanjb: do you have a basic understanding of the net command?
[20:37:34] <bryanjb> JT, thanks. i'm pretty pathetic with this stuff, just trying to get a workable complete picture of it all. i not sure my questions are well formulated context - wise. working on stuff like net, think i have it *mostly*
[20:38:33] <bryanjb> googling samples (mpg at the moment), and trying to translate into my hardware / version.
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[20:40:03] <PCW> What cards do you have?
[20:40:05] <PCW> And bbl appointment
[20:40:34] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/basic_hal.html
[20:41:20] <bryanjb> JT, i've been staring at that for a while. std HAL and HM2 seem to differ in some names, pins, parameters - don't need a base thread with mesa, and so forth.
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[20:42:16] <bryanjb> using a 5123 with 7i37 for GPIO and 7"
[20:42:39] <bryanjb> 7i42 for 4 axis S & D.
[20:43:40] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:48:15] <JT-Shop> yea, the names are all different depending on what card you have
[20:48:56] <JT-Shop> that link explains the basic hal commands, the rest are just signal and pin names really
[20:49:24] <JT-Shop> did you look in Machine > Show Hal Configuration
[20:52:14] <bryanjb> JT - yup, been on Machine > Show Hal Configuration and most of the other docs noted, thx. now just trying to pull it all together. my difficulty seems to be trying to build connections incrementally without killing it. was lookiing into using halscope to see signals, so wanted sig names in the mesa card. hoping that makes sense...
[20:54:16] <bryanjb> if i ever get this figured out, i'll probably try and write an idiot's guide to linuxcnc - i feel well qual'd for that moniker...
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[20:58:37] <JT-Shop> all the pin names for the mesa card will show up in Machine > Show Hal Configuration
[20:58:50] <JT-Shop> all signals are created in the hal file
[20:59:13] <Jymmm> "We control the vertical..."
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[21:00:19] <andypugh> bryanjb: dmesg will pretty much always say what the problem is.
[21:00:37] <r00t4rd3d> what can hal do for me?
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[21:00:58] <r00t4rd3d> i still have no clue
[21:01:10] <r00t4rd3d> one of the last things in the whole app i dont get
[21:01:37] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yes, almost exactly like that, but integral and with a gauging area.
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[21:02:00] <andypugh> HAL is the best part of LinuxCNC, you can do anything there.
[21:02:20] <r00t4rd3d> like what?
[21:02:35] <Jymmm> andypugh: Even make a black monolith?
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[21:03:00] <andypugh> Well, WillenCMD is controlling a whole (simple) machine in HAL, with no other GUI.
[21:03:15] <r00t4rd3d> why would he?
[21:03:37] <andypugh> My hobbing machine worked by scaling a stepgen to an encoder with a variable ratio.
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[21:04:04] <r00t4rd3d> you might have well said that in chinese
[21:04:08] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: Well, one reason is that there are some jobs where G-code is just innappropriate.
[21:04:49] <skunkworks_> There are just some things that you cannot do without touching hal. Tool changer logic - spindle gear shifting...
[21:05:08] <andypugh> WillenCMD's machine moves a grinding head to a set position at a controlled rate, then retracts it. Why would you have G-code and a GUI for that?
[21:05:13] <Jymmm> black monoliths
[21:05:49] <andypugh> loadrt black_monolith / addf monolith.0 future-thread
[21:06:13] <Jymmm> andypugh: But, but, but... What about Dave?
[21:06:47] <JT-Shop> bryanjb: when possible add one line at a time to your hal file, makes troubleshooing typos etc much faster
[21:06:58] <skunkworks_> compinsating for spindle temperature growth...
[21:07:10] <skunkworks_> pallet changing...
[21:07:17] <r00t4rd3d> Jymmm, http://contemporarycritique.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/cnc-router-1.jpg
[21:08:03] <skunkworks_> supported linear rails... Nice..
[21:08:07] <bryanjb> thanks andy, JT, r00t, PCW. gonna stare at it and try making some smaller parts work first. MPG axis enable LED, looks like a starting point. seeyalater.
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[21:09:31] <andypugh> nice router, but I think I would have put in all the screws
[21:09:46] <r00t4rd3d> im not sure whos machine that is
[21:09:55] <r00t4rd3d> just searching for cnc router + black monolith
[21:11:27] <mrsun> hmm ballscrews on a cnc made in wood ... i wish i could afford that :P
[21:11:37] <andypugh> bottom of http://contemporarycritique.wordpress.com/2012/01/06/pure-art-sells-out/
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[21:12:14] <r00t4rd3d> i see cheap used ballscrews on ebay alot
[21:12:55] -!- dooley_ has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[21:13:01] <andypugh> They aren"t that expensive brand-new. £75 for a meter length an nut?
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[21:13:26] <r00t4rd3d> yeah if you want to wait on chinaman
[21:13:33] <r00t4rd3d> 40 beans
[21:13:46] <andypugh> mrsun: http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/sf1605-single-ballnut-p-114.html?cPath=1_63_64
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[21:14:05] <mrsun> wtf
[21:14:33] <mrsun> at that price even i could afford it :P
[21:14:41] <andypugh> that's my point
[21:15:16] <r00t4rd3d> 36" $76 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/RM1605-Length-900mm-Rolled-Ballscrews-with-Ballnut-and-end-machined-for-CNC-DIY-/251086072578?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a75e56b02
[21:15:24] <r00t4rd3d> with nut
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[21:22:16] <r00t4rd3d> so whos got the used, dusty gecko for sale?
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[21:27:16] <jthornton> I can't seem to get past this error /usr/bin/gladevcp:211: RuntimeWarning: missing handler 'on_button2_pressed'
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[21:30:49] <jthornton> maybe I'll just block another spammer that will make me feel better
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[21:32:01] <jthornton> na, that didn't work
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[21:37:09] <jthornton> what makes it hard is the manual says one thing and the examples are different
[21:37:23] <frallzor> hello there Mr JT
[21:37:52] <jthornton> hello Mr frallzor
[21:38:23] <frallzor> you may adress me as King Frallzor
[21:41:48] <jthornton> good luck with that :P
[21:42:11] <frallzor> http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5522/img4244f.jpg its taking shape
[21:42:14] <frallzor> the kings craft
[21:42:55] <jthornton> looking good
[21:43:17] <frallzor> machined half the motormounts today
[21:45:13] <jthornton> hmm change the name of the py file and it fails to work anymore... I wonder if it is hardcoded in somewhere
[21:46:33] <jthornton> hmm, it just don't like the name I used gladevcp.py is verboten
[21:47:08] <jthornton> how much will it weigh?
[21:59:11] <JT-Shop> I used to like pistachios http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeJVTolV_KY
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[22:07:47] <andypugh> jthornton: Well, there already is a gladevcp.py
[22:09:15] <jthornton> now you tell me :)
[22:12:52] <andypugh> Where can I get Pistachios at 2312?
[22:13:50] <jthornton> dang still get /usr/bin/gladevcp:211: RuntimeWarning: missing handler 'on_button2_pressed'
[22:14:04] <jthornton> the all night pistachios bar?
[22:14:46] <Jymmm> T-Eleven
[22:14:51] <Jymmm> 7-Eleven
[22:15:00] <andypugh> Well, it sounds like you have defined an action in the Glade file (button_2_pressed) and not created a handler for it in the python file.
[22:15:17] <Jymmm> Liquior store
[22:15:20] <jthornton> but I have the handler in the python file
[22:15:34] <jthornton> that is what has me confused at this second
[22:16:05] <andypugh> jthornton: I am sure you think you have, so the question is why Glade doesn't think you have. Time to think like an interpreter for a language named after a snake and designed by a madman.
[22:17:03] <jthornton> def on_button2_pressed(self, widget, data=None):
[22:18:30] <jthornton> seems the def get_handlers(halcomp,builder,useropts): doesn't like to be indented like the manual shows
[22:19:08] <andypugh> You know that encoder I made? I messed up: https://plus.google.com/u/0/108164504656404380542/posts/HHKJycZjEFR
[22:19:41] <jthornton> different widths?
[22:20:16] <andypugh> No. 180 degrees
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[22:20:58] <jthornton> and should be 90?
[22:21:08] <andypugh> Yes.
[22:21:14] <jthornton> ouch
[22:22:00] <andypugh> Probably a right pain to fix too.
[22:22:39] <jthornton> the sensors are mounted on a pcb right?
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[22:23:03] <andypugh> Nothing so flimsy and easy to adjust: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/pIX99XXyplXGFZIsyTV2Y9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[22:24:20] <jthornton> so how far is 90 more degrees?
[22:25:04] <jthornton> doesn't look like you spend hours with a file to make the bracket
[22:25:30] <andypugh> I think 90 fewer would be better. That was 2.5 spacings. I measured it accuratley and everything. Forgetting I neded 2.25
[22:25:54] <jthornton> ouch
[22:26:18] <andypugh> So, do I slot the holes, or start again?
[22:26:42] <jthornton> at least after two days I can make a button count
[22:27:12] <jthornton> I'm not sure how it exactly works
[22:27:40] <andypugh> It looks at these gear teeth: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/50sU9lCdX6QIFUW_s5hL5tMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[22:27:47] <jthornton> I like slots and jack screws for most things
[22:28:18] <archivist> andypugh, I thought that slot was for adjustment, just lever it a "bit"
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[22:28:37] <andypugh> The slot was so that both sensors could be tangent to the gear.
[22:28:40] <jthornton> half a "bit"
[22:29:20] <tjb1> iphone took a swim...
[22:29:31] <jthornton> is it water proof?
[22:29:37] <andypugh> tjb1: Did it survive?
[22:29:38] <archivist> andypugh, I may try that idea for the hobbing machine except I have to place for an index
[22:29:52] <archivist> to/no
[22:30:02] <andypugh> I made an index. You see that screw?
[22:30:03] <tjb1> It didnt work, took the whole thing apart and now it works…but screen has water marks on it, not sure if they will dry out or not
[22:30:12] <tjb1> board is fine
[22:30:18] <jthornton> the screw your index?
[22:30:19] <Jymmm> remove battery and add denatured alcohol.
[22:30:34] <Jymmm> not a lot or for too long though.
[22:30:35] <tjb1> I was afraid to tear the screen apart
[22:30:40] <Jymmm> dont
[22:30:44] <andypugh> You can buy new screens on eBay for less than you might think. You can probably also buy new moisture-detectors...
[22:30:45] <archivist> andypugh, yes but where that is is a sliding tube on my head
[22:30:49] <tjb1> Its dry Jymmm except for between the digitizer and glass
[22:30:59] <Jymmm> just add the denatured alcohol
[22:31:09] <tjb1> I know andypugh, I will give it a few days and see if screen cleans up
[22:31:16] <tjb1> where Jymmm?
[22:31:39] <Jymmm> denatured alcohol can displace water.
[22:31:49] <andypugh> Though what I was hinting at is morallt reprehensible. (And, actually, I wouldn't)
[22:31:53] <Jymmm> flush it out.
[22:31:59] <jthornton> can't you pack it in some desiccant to dry it out
[22:32:13] <tjb1> Im not worried about the warranty and its currently sitting in rice
[22:32:24] <archivist> put it in the oven to dry :)
[22:32:25] <tjb1> If it doesn clean up Jymmm I will try that, its a bear to tear apart
[22:32:40] <tjb1> 500 little screws no bigger than a grain of rice
[22:32:46] <tjb1> 40 cables
[22:32:46] <andypugh> archivist: I think we ought to consider adding missing-tooth indexing to the encoders in LinuxCNC so that sngle-channel encoding is possible.
[22:32:47] <Jymmm> dunk the whole phone in denatured alcohol,
[22:33:03] <Jymmm> but with no battery inside
[22:33:19] <archivist> andypugh, Im thinking for hobbing no index is really needed
[22:33:19] <andypugh> tjb1: You exaggerate. It's 5 cables and maybe 10 screws.
[22:33:37] <Jymmm> andypugh: Well, maybe more like 20 screws
[22:33:39] <tjb1> Its more than 5 cables and there are 10 screws holding one cover on :P
[22:33:56] <tjb1> Then there are 10 little bastards holding the screen on
[22:33:57] <jthornton> so normal alcohol is 20% water all ready...
[22:33:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: apple is screw happy.
[22:34:09] <andypugh> tjb1: Which model? I have only had a 3GS in bits.
[22:34:11] <tjb1> 6 of them have little ass washers on them too
[22:34:14] <tjb1> iphone 4
[22:34:31] <andypugh> Ah, I will approach mine with some caution then
[22:34:33] <Jymmm> jthornton: doens't evaporant fast enough
[22:34:33] <tjb1> You have to take everything out to get the screen out
[22:34:45] <tjb1> And I mean everything...
[22:35:15] <jthornton> Jymmm, what doesn't evaporate fast enough the water in normal alcohol?
[22:35:18] <tjb1> Andy does your have the pentalobe screws on the bottom?
[22:35:21] <Jymmm> jthornton: AND... "normal" / isoprobal alcohol can have the other 20% be oil or water
[22:35:40] <jthornton> denatured only means poison
[22:35:58] <Jymmm> jthornton: they dont call it "rubbing" alcohol for nothing, some add an oil for a lubricant.
[22:36:31] <Jymmm> most dont' day what the "other 20%" is.
[22:36:33] <andypugh> andypugh: My 4S does, yes.
[22:36:35] <jthornton> sure but it's hard to find 99% alcohol... except I have 5 gallons
[22:36:35] <Jymmm> say
[22:36:35] <tjb1> New screen/digitizer is $30
[22:37:01] <Jymmm> denatured alcohol is $8 at the hardware store for a pint.
[22:37:08] <Jymmm> 191 proof
[22:37:12] <Jymmm> err 190 proof
[22:37:22] <tjb1> If I am gonna do that I will do screen only
[22:37:23] <Jymmm> I buy it by the gallons
[22:37:45] <andypugh> Wierdly, one of "my" components on the cars is held together with "security" penatalobe, not just 5 star, but with a pin in the middle too. I have no idea why.
[22:37:57] <tjb1> pentalobe or torx?
[22:38:13] <tjb1> the pin is security (torx)
[22:38:15] <Jymmm> We had a friend to that to his $900 Nokia he dropped in a barrel of wine. It worked for him.
[22:38:27] <Jymmm> YMMV
[22:38:36] <andypugh> tjb1: Yes, but torx is normally 6-pointed, not 5-pointed?
[22:39:00] <Jymmm> andypugh: torx is hex with curve sides
[22:39:03] <tjb1> http://toolwarehaus.com/images/W79450C.jpg
[22:39:04] <tjb1> ?
[22:39:23] <tjb1> Not sure now…that says Security Torx but has 5 points
[22:39:39] <Jymmm> let me look at me security bits...
[22:40:19] <Tom_itx> center hole
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[22:40:33] <Tom_itx> is security i believe
[22:40:55] <Jymmm> No, he's right... There are BOTh 5 and 6 point security torx.
[22:41:15] <Tom_itx> the mating part will have a stud in the middle of the torx pattern
[22:41:35] <andypugh> tjb1: The top picture and the bottom picture are of different things. The bottom ones are 6 point (as there too small a probablity that all 7 bits would be inserted with the front spline aligned to the hex.
[22:41:44] <Jymmm> tjb1: Just use a flat blade screwdriver if you dont have the security bit.
[22:42:03] <tjb1> Its andy who has the problem Jymmm
[22:42:06] <Jymmm> tjb1: find the proper size to fit, else you'll strip the head.
[22:42:12] <andypugh> I think the point of 5-star is that a screwdriver can't be wedged in the same way.
[22:42:19] <tjb1> I threw those garbage pentalobe out once I got the replacements
[22:42:33] <Jymmm> andypugh: You can, just more of a PITA.
[22:43:06] <Jymmm> tjb1: you have another phone you can use?
[22:43:10] <andypugh> tjb1: Oh, Ihave no problwm with the securityh screws on the thermostat housing. It's the poor customers down the line who will curse us.
[22:43:22] <tjb1> Its working Jymmm, thats how im online
[22:43:28] <Nick001-Shop> is there a starting point for PID - like motor voltage and speed?
[22:43:31] <Jymmm> lol
[22:43:43] <tjb1> If it holds out til november I will probably get the 5 but will lose my unlimited
[22:43:57] <Jymmm> tjb1: If it's working... Then DONT FUCK WITH IT! M'Kay???
[22:44:08] <tjb1> Thats why I didnt run and dip it in alcohol :D
[22:44:23] <tjb1> But if screen doesnt clear up its getting replaced
[22:44:26] <tjb1> Its like 6 different shades
[22:45:01] <Jymmm> tjb1: So? Just take better drugs to compensate foe the psychedelic colors!
[22:45:10] <tjb1> Its not colors
[22:45:14] <tjb1> Its like transparent black
[22:45:15] <Jymmm> whatever
[22:45:23] <tjb1> than gray, lighter gray, lighter gray
[22:45:24] <tjb1> normal
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[22:45:49] <tjb1> Also this weird straight line on the top corner...
[22:45:58] <andypugh> Nick001: You can work out a starting point if you really want.
[22:46:02] <JT-Shop> my gallon cans of Crown denatured alcohol don't even mention purity...
[22:46:25] <Nick001-Shop> any links?
[22:46:35] <Jymmm> 60 security bits, I think I need more.
[22:47:09] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Fine, then go buy some Everclear... 190 Proof
[22:47:18] <Jymmm> at the liquir store.
[22:47:32] <andypugh> Nick001: The output of the PID is the Pgain x error, so work out what sort of position error you want to give full speed output. You don't want, for example, to be running at max speed when you are closer to the endpoint than the stopping distance at max decell.
[22:48:17] <andypugh> But, at a guess, try 1 for a metric machine and 10 for an Imperial one :-)
[22:49:54] <Nick001-Shop> that's the P - what about the ID?
[22:50:06] <andypugh> Both 0 until P is close.
[22:50:17] <Nick001-Shop> Just trying to have a starting point without blowing the H- Bridge again
[22:50:53] <andypugh> Ah, try 0.1 then. Or less.
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[22:53:27] <JT-Shop> yikes I hate to see "again" after blowing up
[22:53:35] <Nick001-Shop> how would I call a spindle speed with the H-Bride in etch-servo - have a dc motor and a 2000 line encoder to a spindle assembly
[22:54:00] <Nick001-Shop> lit up like a bulb and fried real good
[22:54:14] <r00t-Shed> im amazed at how this is coming out :
[22:54:15] <r00t-Shed> http://i.imgur.com/tmD0k.png
[22:54:38] <r00t-Shed> i fked up the model somewhat too
[22:54:39] <Nick001-Shop> just got a replcement and will have a 1 amp fuse on the power supply
[22:54:54] <andypugh> r00t-Shed: Is that 4.73m long?
[22:54:59] <r00t-Shed> inch
[22:55:15] <andypugh> Seems a bit small?
[22:55:41] <r00t-Shed> just screwing around
[22:57:39] <andypugh> Talking about making cars, I wasted a lot of today looking at this (a build of a 3000hp Vauxhall Victor): http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=47&t=845887&mid=263071&nmt=Redvictor+3
[22:58:25] <r00t-Shed> i am impatient too so smaller models, smaller cut time :)
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[23:00:51] <JT-Shop> 3000hp?
[23:01:02] <andypugh> Supposedly.
[23:01:28] <JT-Shop> that's a bunch of HP to hang on to
[23:01:30] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IokQf21NANo
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[23:03:45] <JT-Shop> that's impressive
[23:04:53] <JT-Shop> I like this quote "You can make a small fortune in UK drag racing
[23:04:53] <JT-Shop> if you start with a large one "
[23:05:00] <andypugh> Opening doors, electric windows, all street legal. The build diary is fascinating, if rather long.
[23:05:16] <JT-Shop> 189 pages yes
[23:07:31] <andypugh> I am just skimming the pictures of really nice parts
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[23:11:44] <JT-Shop> be interesting to see the engine
[23:14:21] <Tom_itx> alum block?
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[23:34:00] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop any ideas why the realtime didn't load on a new install?
[23:35:38] <Jymmm> It's on Delay Time?
[23:35:51] <Tom_itx> must be
[23:37:20] <Jymmm> $20 for a 400W/800W peak inverter, $50 for 750/1500W Hmmmmmm
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[23:39:42] <Tom_itx> via c3 cpu
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[23:41:30] <Jymmm> Let's see, I can run the 18K BTU Window AC on a deep cycle marine battery for 30 minutes =)
[23:43:33] <JT-Shop> did you install side by side with a normal ubuntu?
[23:44:32] <Tom_itx> i used the live cd install
[23:46:12] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/cxQQ7.jpg
[23:54:03] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc3-5MiWTcE&feature=plcp
[23:54:07] <r00t4rd3d> video of me cutting it
[23:54:23] <r00t4rd3d> turn up the volume for effect
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