#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-07-15

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[00:00:37] <ReadError> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Jul%2012%2C%2011%2054%2014%20PM.jpg
[00:00:48] <ReadError> 1st one was on the left
[00:01:33] <alex4nder> sick
[00:01:39] <alex4nder> how are you attaching them to the table?
[00:02:07] <andypugh> Why not just leave them like the middle one?
[00:02:15] <ReadError> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Jul%2012%2C%204%2052%2025%20PM.jpg
[00:02:24] <ReadError> andypugh, well
[00:02:24] <CareBear\> andypugh : you'll know after assembling one or two
[00:02:28] <CareBear\> :)
[00:02:28] <ReadError> i figure less copper
[00:02:32] <ReadError> less chance of shorting
[00:02:33] <ReadError> ;)
[00:02:37] <Tom_itx> i've used double back tape to secure them before
[00:02:43] <ReadError> since ive never done SMD work
[00:02:54] <ReadError> i made a simple jig
[00:02:59] <ReadError> took 5 mins
[00:03:02] <alex4nder> ReadError: ah, cool cool. what's the work holder made out of?
[00:03:22] <ReadError> some g10
[00:03:26] <ReadError> 1/8"
[00:03:30] <alex4nder> ah cool
[00:03:58] <alex4nder> what is it?
[00:04:02] <Tom_itx> lower right 2nd pad in on the first board has an awfully thin trace on it
[00:04:06] <alex4nder> uC and support compontent carrier?
[00:04:14] <andypugh> Do you know why the circles aren't round?
[00:04:22] <Tom_itx> as does the 8pin dip to the left of it
[00:04:28] <andypugh> I assume a flexiy-bendy machine?
[00:04:29] <alex4nder> andypugh: he's an artist
[00:04:30] <ReadError> andypugh, I think its the tool
[00:04:36] <ReadError> er
[00:04:38] <ReadError> idk
[00:04:56] <alex4nder> you sure it's not backlash?
[00:05:22] <ReadError> that pic is my 1st
[00:05:27] <ReadError> i kinda got the code and depth a bit better
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[00:05:34] <alex4nder> looks great man
[00:05:37] <andypugh> Could well be backash. The left-right tracks seem thinner than the up-down ones.
[00:05:50] <alex4nder> ReadError: you going to drag solder them by hand or use a toaster/heater/hot air?
[00:05:59] <ReadError> alex4nder, ordered a rework station
[00:06:05] <alex4nder> what style?
[00:06:10] <andypugh> Solder paste and an iron seems to work fine for me.
[00:06:13] <ReadError> luckily, when i ordered they had it 20$ off
[00:06:15] <alex4nder> andypugh: same here
[00:06:19] <andypugh> (ie, normal soldering iron)
[00:06:26] <alex4nder> I use a hoof tip on a Metcal MX-500
[00:06:44] <Tom_itx> the upper left pad on the 8pin dip going to the tqfp has an awfully thin trace on the right board
[00:06:46] <ReadError> http://sra-solder.com/product.php/6267/1/968
[00:06:58] <ReadError> Tom_itx, yea
[00:07:00] <archivist> top middle round pad shows machine error nicely
[00:07:01] <ReadError> its super thin
[00:07:05] <ReadError> but has continuity
[00:07:21] <Tom_itx> reliablly?
[00:07:31] <ReadError> yea ive done 4
[00:07:34] <ReadError> its there on all of them
[00:07:40] <ReadError> maybe i need to change my backlash settings
[00:07:41] <andypugh> The optical encoder chip (with pads underneath and nothing out the side) is a bit of a pain though: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kWSTOh9MUUH3q-9nUid_ztMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[00:07:41] <Tom_itx> so is the 4th pad over at the top
[00:07:52] <archivist> there is backlash or bending
[00:08:13] <Tom_itx> i've all but given up on this rewiring job
[00:08:24] <alex4nder> ReadError: did you ever do backlash comp on your setup?
[00:08:52] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Isn't it a bit late to give up now?
[00:08:56] <Tom_itx> seems the logic want's to see 5v on a button push on most of it and the gpio pins on the 7i43 require logic low
[00:09:21] <Tom_itx> i got it back to a workable point
[00:09:55] <Tom_itx> i don't really feel like a whole rewrite / rewire just to get an encoder
[00:10:00] <andypugh> Tom_itx: They don't _require_ logic low, but just disconnecting them from +5 won't change their state.
[00:10:22] <Tom_itx> i thought the gpio had weak pullups on them
[00:10:37] <Tom_itx> and taking them to gnd would change their state
[00:10:44] <ReadError> ok this is odd
[00:10:53] <ReadError> i could have _swore_ i had backlash in my taig.ini file
[00:10:57] <Tom_itx> anyway, i'd have to rethink alot of the other logic and i'm not sure i'm up to it right now
[00:11:15] <alex4nder> ReadError: I remember you working on it
[00:11:30] <alex4nder> like, you mentioned it
[00:11:33] <andypugh> Yes, exactly, so they won't change state if they are simply disconnected from +5 . I _think_ you could pull them down with a stronger pull-down, then drag them back up with +5V
[00:11:55] <Tom_itx> pcw indicated i needed logic low
[00:11:55] <ReadError> now im tripping out
[00:11:59] <ReadError> because i thought i set them...
[00:13:05] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Depends what you mean by "logic low". That really only applies to outputs, and you are looking at inputs.
[00:14:01] <ReadError> wow
[00:14:05] <ReadError> this entire time, i thought i had it on..
[00:14:27] <ReadError> jon@jon-desktop:~$ grep -R "BACKLASH" *
[00:14:27] <andypugh> They are weakly pulled high inside the FPGA. You could more-forcefully pull them down with a resistor, then accept that the +5V is having to source a decent amount of current.
[00:14:27] <ReadError> Binary file Desktop/taig/.taig.ini.swp matches
[00:14:27] <ReadError> Dropbox/New folder/configs/taig/taig.ini:BACKLASH = 0.0008
[00:14:27] <ReadError> Dropbox/New folder/configs/taig/taig.ini:BACKLASH = 0.0035
[00:14:34] <ReadError> its in my dropbox *facepalm*
[00:14:36] <Tom_itx> ReadError it makes a huge difference
[00:14:54] <ReadError> yea for sure
[00:15:01] <ReadError> i need to move the config back over
[00:15:43] <ReadError> ok its in the .swp file
[00:15:49] <ReadError> open vim session i assume
[00:16:04] <andypugh> Tom_itx: A simpler solution might be a ULN2008, they are very cheap and IIRC have exactly the required properties of connecting a leg to common Gnd when an input pin is high.
[00:16:05] <Tom_itx> andypugh i may try pulldowns just to see
[00:16:28] <Tom_itx> i don't think it would hurt anything
[00:16:56] <andypugh> No, it's all safe-level voltages and resistors outside the baord.
[00:16:57] <Tom_itx> pcw_home?
[00:17:14] <Tom_itx> like a 1k
[00:17:25] <Tom_itx> naw, probably 10k
[00:17:39] <Tom_itx> i doubt the internals are very strong ones
[00:18:09] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I probably meant uln2003 (uln2008 is the 8-channel version)
[00:18:24] <Tom_itx> i'll just try resistors
[00:18:38] <andypugh> A 1k pull-down means your signal current is 5mA, which is tiny
[00:20:01] <andypugh> 100R wouldn't be silly if you are using physical buttons.
[00:20:43] <Tom_itx> is_opendrain just applies to outputs right?
[00:22:38] <andypugh> Pretty sure that's what I read last night, yes
[00:22:56] <andypugh> mn hostmot2 in the gpio section has the info
[00:23:02] <andypugh> (man)
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[00:26:04] <ReadError> i have 0.0035 in my Y axis too
[00:26:08] <ReadError> that makes perfect sense now
[00:26:38] <ReadError> only 0.0008 in my X
[00:27:03] <Tom_itx> andypugh yeah i'm looking at it
[00:27:07] <andypugh> Those numbers seem rather low. Ballscrews?
[00:27:28] <ReadError> andypugh, just the default taig stuff
[00:27:32] <ReadError> i put my dial on it
[00:27:34] <Tom_itx> i think all you get on input is 'in' and 'in_not'
[00:27:40] <ReadError> set the movement to 0.0001
[00:27:48] <ReadError> and would move, change directions
[00:27:52] <ReadError> count how many presses it took
[00:27:59] <ReadError> before the dial indicator moved a bit
[00:28:06] <ReadError> did it 3 times, took the average
[00:28:11] <ReadError> not sure if thats the right method
[00:28:16] <ReadError> since it wasnt under a load..
[00:28:30] <andypugh> If you are keen, you can map it so that the values are different in different parts of the travel
[00:28:46] <ReadError> well im not that good ;)
[00:28:52] <Tom_itx> andypugh i think i'm gonna test with some spagetti wiring on one pin before i rewire the whole thing again
[00:28:53] <ReadError> im still starting off
[00:30:28] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Seems like the sensible approach.
[00:31:23] <Tom_itx> talk about backlash, my Y was pretty worn and had .010 but after adding comp i was able to cut a nice circle within .001 of what i programmed it which i think is pretty good for this little sherline
[00:31:49] <Tom_itx> no noticeable notches where the quadrants change direction either
[00:32:21] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/cnc_files/millholder2.jpg
[00:32:38] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/cnc_files/millholder1.jpg
[00:33:14] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I just remebered that I used ULN2003 to interface my 7i43. You can just see them peeking through under the wires: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Til4cZnLeEZ6Y2jizdn8-tMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[00:33:16] <ReadError> im still kinda tripping how my config got changed out
[00:33:29] <ReadError> since i know i had it, it was in the .swp file afterall
[00:36:03] <andypugh> That Vero-board breakout is marginally cleverer than it looks, as the wires each have a crimp-terminal on the end and are onto individual header pins. So that is all rewiarable. Naturally I have never needed to.
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[00:36:35] <Tom_itx> i wish you had a bigger pic of it
[00:37:35] <Tom_itx> i do the crimp terminals as well
[00:37:46] <Tom_itx> heatshrink over it to use as a single plugin
[00:38:29] <andypugh> I sold the hold-down set. £32. About half what I pad for it.
[00:39:39] <Tom_itx> ok, back at it here...
[00:46:31] <r00t4rd3d> lets do t his
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[00:53:16] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d, if you have any pycam questions
[00:53:23] <ReadError> sumpfralle is the coder
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[01:00:29] <r00t4rd3d> sweet, let me get my gun.
[01:00:54] <fullofSheds> seems that cnc machine co's decide on very similar names all over the world.... I didn't exoect to find 10 different co's named NewWay, neuway, nuway etc etc in China
[01:02:53] <Tom_itx> andypugh 1k doesn't seem to be enough
[01:03:00] <Tom_itx> the pin still kinda floats
[01:03:08] <Tom_itx> maybe 330 ohm?
[01:03:16] <Tom_itx> would that be too much?
[01:03:22] <andypugh> I think I would have started at 330.
[01:03:46] <andypugh> We know that it is safe to short the pin to gnd, as that is rather what you are expected to do
[01:03:50] <Tom_itx> i _would_ have started at 10k :)
[01:04:02] <Tom_itx> true
[01:04:15] <andypugh> So the question is how much current you want to flow in the 5V state
[01:04:58] <andypugh> What is the pin voltage at 1k?
[01:05:50] <Tom_itx> i didn't check it
[01:06:05] <andypugh> ie, with a multimeter measure the unconnected voltage. Then the voltage at 1k, then you can calculate the pull-up resistance. And then you need to know the switching thresholds to work out the opptimum pull-down.
[01:06:09] <Tom_itx> it was causing the logic to twitch though so it was very marginal
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[01:09:14] <Tom_itx> 4.14v unconnected, 1.432 connected
[01:09:52] <Tom_itx> .507v with the 330 ohm
[01:12:55] <Tom_itx> yeah 330 seems to do ok
[01:16:29] <Tom_itx> i'll solder some of those in and see what happens
[01:16:50] <andypugh> Make sure the jumpers are set for 5V operation though.
[01:17:07] <Tom_itx> they are
[01:17:14] <Tom_itx> i did that right off the bat
[01:18:05] <r00t4rd3d> it was 91 inside my house today, finally down to 84
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[01:18:20] <Tom_itx> W2 is 'UP' on the 7i43
[01:19:42] <andypugh> Time to snooze. Night all
[01:19:53] <Tom_itx> thanks
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[01:23:12] <r00t4rd3d> Stank you very much for your assistance.
[01:24:45] <r00t4rd3d> thats my favorite line when talking to customer service
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[01:55:00] <r00t4rd3d> 10pm, time to work on my router.
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[02:03:46] <r00t4rd3d> 1045 soyuz rocket is gonna blast off
[02:03:53] <alex4nder> nice
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[02:04:11] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
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[02:04:25] <r00t4rd3d> they are loading up
[02:04:38] <r00t4rd3d> the american chick is doable
[02:05:50] <r00t4rd3d> click the go live in the player viewer if it didnt auto
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[02:09:01] <r00t4rd3d> anyone watching?
[02:09:20] <r00t4rd3d> that launch pad is crazy
[02:11:23] <r00t4rd3d> ewww HD
[02:11:24] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/ustream.html
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[02:17:45] <r00t4rd3d> i guess some dude actually has to turn a key or something to fire them things off
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[02:19:10] <Tom_itx> car key?
[02:20:22] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.duke.edu/web/isis/gessler/collections/locks-keys.htm
[02:20:59] <r00t4rd3d> that italian key and lock is crazy cool
[02:22:04] <r00t4rd3d> good luck using that drunk
[02:24:37] <ink> whoa neat
[02:25:30] <Tom_itx> those look like russian launch keys
[02:25:42] <r00t4rd3d> one is
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[02:32:12] <r00t4rd3d> T-MINUS 8:00
[02:32:18] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/ustream.html
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[02:33:53] <r00t4rd3d> id do it, strap me in
[02:35:32] <r00t4rd3d> they just inserted the key
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[02:36:34] <r00t4rd3d> fullscreen for the fireworks!
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[02:44:31] <ink> impressive :)
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[03:16:02] <taiden> hey gents
[03:16:12] <alex4nder> what up
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[03:18:28] <ink> soyuz
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[03:39:18] <nlkdavid> .
[03:40:36] <Tom_itx> mmm
[03:40:43] <Tom_itx> ok i think i finally got it working
[03:40:51] <Connor> got what working ?
[03:40:53] <Tom_itx> rewired and software working
[03:41:02] <Tom_itx> i moved some pins on my pendant
[03:41:09] <Tom_itx> doing so caused all sorts of problems
[03:41:40] <Tom_itx> the short of it was the pins i went to were reverse logic from what i had originally
[03:42:44] <Tom_itx> so i had to add some resistors and change the software to suit
[03:43:03] <Tom_itx> but it took a while to get to that point
[03:43:37] <Tom_itx> now i've got an encoder freed up to use for my spindle encoder
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[03:55:45] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, still up?
[03:55:59] * Tom_itx doubts it
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[04:18:10] <nlkdavid> .
[04:26:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: It's nearly 7pm JT-Shop time, he's ben asleep for hours now
[04:26:17] <Tom_itx> heh
[04:26:30] <Tom_itx> he goes to bed before the chickens
[04:26:45] <Jymmm> before sunset
[04:27:33] <Jymmm> I picked up some BRAIDED mason line today, it's not bad, holds a knot well too
[04:28:01] <Jymmm> 250ft for under $4 out the door
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[05:56:55] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: looks great.
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[06:53:56] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:07:53] <MrSunshine> http://imagebin.org/220826 darwin at work
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[07:22:01] <tjb1> CNCzone needs to do something about the spammer
[07:22:03] <tjb1> s
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[09:09:42] cylly is now known as Loetmichel
[09:10:16] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[10:32:53] <andypugh> Excellent: http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/
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[10:45:02] <r00t4rd3d> O_-
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[10:49:45] <r00t4rd3d> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LJjW_1GAPjA/T-nmI0HWCWI/AAAAAAAADKY/PsiVVwGCVQQ/s871/Samples.jpg
[10:49:51] <r00t4rd3d> i like the
[10:50:00] <r00t4rd3d> "salad hands"
[10:51:46] <r00t4rd3d> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pPDCndbsZvs/T3FQQfCsFGI/AAAAAAAADFY/h5Lo8q3IFzc/s1024/DSC00509.JPG
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[11:20:57] <Loetmichel> *haha* nostalgia hits... found my old gameboy advance with a tetris card inside... new batteries-> runs... just gamed a bit... *awesome memories* ;-)
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[11:53:39] <gmagno> hello, I haven't read the datasheets in detail, but... does anyone know the main differences between the Allegro A4988 and A4984. I want to drive a nema17 motor whose main spec is 1.8A
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[12:03:14] <archivist> you want us to read the datasheet for you :)
[12:03:35] <jthornton> it was on my list of things to do but I've not had the time
[12:08:23] <r00t4rd3d> There is a 4 digit span in the model numbers.
[12:09:43] <r00t4rd3d> i dont think amps would be the main spec of a stepper either.
[12:09:57] <r00t4rd3d> frame size would probably come first for me
[12:11:33] <gmagno> my conviction is that they are almost interchangeable, and was hoping that the community experience would answer this question easily. But thanks anyway
[12:13:16] <r00t4rd3d> such a small jump in model numbers the differences are probably not much
[12:13:33] <r00t4rd3d> probably power stuffs
[12:13:41] <r00t4rd3d> fuck now i gotta look
[12:15:37] <r00t4rd3d> 84 = No smoke no fire (NSNF) compliance (ET package)
[12:21:52] <jthornton> maybe on #electronics
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[12:25:12] <archivist> andypugh, some rust in leicester see fleabay seller oldschoolgill an item 110915800612
[12:26:10] <jthornton> I like that works but broken
[12:26:51] <archivist> some of the descriptions are not believable :)
[12:26:52] <r00t4rd3d> i bet you have a tool like that
[12:27:04] <archivist> I dont
[12:27:25] <r00t4rd3d> no screw drivers with a chipped handle?
[12:28:07] <archivist> a tool like that is a saw sharpener !
[12:30:48] <r00t4rd3d> it takes me like 20 tries to get my gear on the end of my threaded rod straight.
[12:31:11] <r00t4rd3d> there is 2 keys and each one will tilt it slightly
[12:32:22] <r00t4rd3d> i wanna jam it in someones eye on try #10
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[12:39:19] <r00t4rd3d> carve these out on your fancy machine:
[12:39:20] <r00t4rd3d> http://cdn.thegloss.com/files/2011/02/nikeclogs.jpg
[12:40:01] <andypugh> archivist: Seems overpriced for special-purpose rust.
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[12:40:14] <andypugh> Especially with what saw blades cost nowadays
[12:40:28] <archivist> andypugh, what I thought too
[12:41:14] <archivist> I thick all that sellers prices are 3 times too high
[12:43:01] <archivist> where as 221069262442 seems to be solid meaty nourishment
[12:45:29] <andypugh> Yes, that does look properly sturdy.
[12:46:12] <andypugh> But I think you would need a travelling crane to switch to horizontal mode.
[12:47:10] <archivist> some mills have the crane built in
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[12:47:49] <andypugh> Mine might, eventually.
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[14:03:38] <Tom_itx> andypugh i think i got it all working except the inverted logic caused one default not to work properly but i can get past that
[14:04:48] <Tom_itx> the resolution per step on the mpg
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[14:24:00] <JT-Shop> hmmm python + tk or python + glade
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[14:24:55] <Jymmm> I'd say glade
[14:25:01] <Tom_itx> morning JT-Shop, Jymmm
[14:25:14] <Jymmm> howdy Tom_itx
[14:25:55] <Tom_itx> first project since the 'renovation'
[14:26:05] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/cnc_files/millholder2.jpg
[14:26:08] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/cnc_files/millholder3.jpg
[14:26:13] <JT-Shop> morning
[14:26:36] <Tom_itx> got my silly pendant io move over finally
[14:27:26] <JT-Shop> that a safety belt on the tool rack?
[14:27:41] <Tom_itx> spare spindle belt
[14:27:51] <andypugh> Paranoid?
[14:28:00] <Tom_itx> no it's broke
[14:28:02] <Tom_itx> :)
[14:28:08] <Tom_itx> keep it for the numbers
[14:28:32] * Jymmm hands Tom_itx some post-it notes
[14:28:35] <andypugh> Why didn't you make a special place in the holder for it :-)
[14:28:47] <JT-Shop> I think I'll go for glade, done tk with the simple g code generators
[14:28:48] <Tom_itx> i did
[14:29:41] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Glade is a lot easier to get the gui looking right, and a lot more powerful. It _ought_ to be easier.
[14:30:03] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: looks nice
[14:30:57] <JT-Shop> yea, I think it is time to move on to glade, I've messed with it a bit in the past
[14:31:23] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Be warned, that red acrylic will crack if stressed
[14:31:44] <Tom_itx> it was just scrap laying around
[14:32:01] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: =)
[14:32:07] <Tom_itx> seems like it's holding for now
[14:33:55] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: =)
[14:39:17] * Loetmichel hase made a holder for the ER11 collets lately....
[14:39:19] <JT-Shop> need a bigger monitor for glade + a tutorial :(
[14:39:27] <Loetmichel> WITH writing...
[14:39:42] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12638
[14:40:02] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: two projectors and that big ass bare wall in the newshop
[14:40:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13221
[14:40:12] <JT-Shop> lol
[14:40:53] <archivist> no space for the holder redo from start
[14:41:10] <Tom_itx> Note
[14:41:10] <Tom_itx> Dont try and set the offsets by editing the tool table, the offsets are from the machine origin.
[14:41:25] <Tom_itx> rather: Don't try and set the length offsets
[14:41:33] * Tom_itx looks at JT-Shop
[14:41:56] * JT-Shop looks back through the maze of windoes on this tiny monitor
[14:42:16] * JT-Shop nods
[14:42:26] * archivist looks askance at the looks
[14:42:43] <Loetmichel> tiny monitor?
[14:42:47] <Loetmichel> where?
[14:42:50] <Tom_itx> 22:
[14:42:52] <Tom_itx> 22"
[14:42:53] <Tom_itx> :)
[14:42:58] <Loetmichel> i need one in 10 to 12"
[14:43:07] <Loetmichel> and 1024*768 at least...
[14:43:14] <Tom_itx> i need a touchscreen now
[14:43:14] <Loetmichel> but where to get ;-)
[14:43:18] <JT-Shop> this one is about 18"
[14:43:36] <Loetmichel> i havent enough room at the CNC.
[14:43:40] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel steal one from UPS / FEDEX truck
[14:44:39] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/SBC/lcdpanel.jpg
[14:44:40] <Loetmichel> the 15" is already crammed between two rack shelves there: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[14:44:44] <Tom_itx> i'd planned on using that one
[14:45:12] <Loetmichel> and i want it to mount on the back wall of the mill, for easy moving the mill
[14:45:31] <Loetmichel> i sometimes have it with me when doing model conventions...
[14:45:35] <Loetmichel> or at company ;-)
[14:45:45] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12691
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[14:51:38] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you might mention the offset number is a length from machine zero and not a length difference between tools
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[14:52:08] <Tom_itx> some machines use the first tool to set zero and the rest are referenced from that
[14:52:53] <JT-Shop> ok
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[14:53:20] <Tom_itx> i think that was part of my initial confusion
[14:53:34] <Tom_itx> not sure why i'm confused now :)
[14:53:52] <JT-Shop> olo
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[14:55:49] <r00t4rd3d> its the drugs man!
[14:57:30] <r00t4rd3d> lay off the bath salts
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[15:06:42] <Jymmm> archivist: Ball Worm Transmission http://urobotics.urology.jhu.edu/projects/BW/
[15:07:12] <Jymmm> archivist: patent for it at bottom in PDF
[15:08:19] <archivist> not sure there is no prior art, typical us paten office
[15:10:26] <Jymmm> http://www.google.com/patents/US7051610?printsec=drawing#v=onepage&q&f=false
[15:11:36] <archivist> In leafing through patents that date from as far back as the early 1900s, Stoianovici found about 30 that made similar claims to that of his invention. "None had been built and none were commercially available," he said. He attributed this only to the recent catching-up of design and manufacturing technologies that can handle the calculations and machining needed for the device's complicated geometry.
[15:11:53] <archivist> so how did he get a patent!
[15:12:33] <Tom_itx> he applied for one?
[15:13:32] <Jymmm> archivist: Just soemthign I came across and thought you could recreate is all
[15:14:12] <gene_> www.mesanet.com is unreachable this morning :(
[15:14:52] <Tom_itx> works fine here
[15:15:24] <Jymmm> it's down here
[15:15:44] <gene_> gene@coyote:/media/pclos11slash/etc$ ping www.mesanet.com
[15:15:45] <Tom_itx> maybe the splash screen was cached ere
[15:15:46] <gene_> PING www.mesanet.com (216.240.33.54) 56(84) bytes of data.
[15:15:47] <Tom_itx> here*
[15:15:47] <gene_> ^C
[15:15:49] <gene_> --- www.mesanet.com ping statistics ---
[15:15:50] <gene_> 9 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 8062ms
[15:15:51] <Tom_itx> it's down
[15:16:10] <Jymmm> pcw_home: you broke the interwebs!
[15:16:29] <gene_> Now come and fix it! :)
[15:16:48] <ReadError> hey guys, archivist
[15:16:49] <ReadError> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Jul%2015%2C%2011%2014%2053%20AM.jpg
[15:16:55] <ReadError> re did it with backlash on
[15:16:57] <pcw_home> Probably maintenance or something
[15:17:09] <ReadError> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Jul%2012%2C%2011%2054%2014%20PM.jpg
[15:17:15] <ReadError> bit better you think?
[15:17:30] <archivist> Jymmm, http://www.unicopter.com/1509.html
[15:17:40] <pcw_home> freeby.mesanet.com is a possibility if you really need something
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[15:19:12] <gene_> That works Peter, thanks
[15:20:08] <archivist> ReadError, I presume the three off is before, and the out of focus the after, yes seems better
[15:21:27] <ReadError> ya the 1st one i posted is the newest: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Jul%2015%2C%2011%2014%2053%20AM.jpg
[15:21:33] <ReadError> the one with 3, is w/o compensation
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[15:48:29] <Tom_itx> ReadError is that the keeper?
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[16:02:44] <ReadError> Tom_itx: yea
[16:03:20] <andypugh> What is magma?
[16:03:45] <andypugh> (in the linuxcnc / rtai context)
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[16:18:04] <skunkworks__> I thought that was just a flavor of rtai
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[16:25:10] <andypugh> Could be.
[16:25:24] <pfred1> perhaps?
[16:25:45] <pfred1> andypugh how's rain?
[16:26:05] <andypugh> The relationship between Ubuntu versions, kernel versions and rtai versions is a source of bafflement to me
[16:26:44] <pfred1> I think LinuxCNC should go Arch or Gentoo
[16:26:45] <andypugh> It hasn't actually rained today. I think that is the first day this month
[16:27:41] <pfred1> man it is dry as dust here it drizzled a little in the morning but not enough to even wet the ground
[16:27:57] <pfred1> we're losing our whole corn crop the whole state
[16:27:59] <andypugh> pfred1: I think the idea of the liveCD being on Ubuntu is to lower the barrier to Windows folk. If you know which flavour you prefer, you probably know how to roll your own LinuxCNC
[16:28:09] <pfred1> the whole world os going to be real hungry this year
[16:28:30] <pfred1> oh I built mine on Debian
[16:28:39] <pfred1> I'm not saying there shouldn't be a live image
[16:28:51] <andypugh> And the Rio Summit achieved absolutely nothing except 45,000 people flying to Rio.
[16:29:03] <pfred1> but the Ubuntu repo I mean it seems to be headed in its own direction
[16:29:48] <pfred1> did you know that Ubuntu distances itself from the word Linux?
[16:30:03] <Tom_itx> pfred1 naw, they hoard it but it will drive the prices up
[16:30:20] <pfred1> Tom_itx oh the prices are going to go up
[16:30:39] <pfred1> but there will be places we won't even be able to ship to the way things are looking
[16:30:49] <pfred1> it is bad we're plawing fields under now
[16:30:52] <pfred1> plowing even
[16:31:10] <pfred1> I never seen fields plowed under this time of year
[16:31:18] <pfred1> its already over
[16:31:43] <andypugh> pfred1: Too wet or too dry?
[16:31:48] <pfred1> too dry
[16:31:51] <pfred1> too hot
[16:32:02] <jthornton> I'm working through this tutorial on glade but it doesn't say where to put the code at the end
[16:32:03] <jthornton> http://www.overclock.net/t/342279/tutorial-using-python-glade-to-create-a-simple-gui-application
[16:32:04] <andypugh> We had a very hot march, then a frost, so the fruit trees flowered then died. That was a bad start.
[16:32:12] <pfred1> corn standing there looking like it is october already all burnt to nothing
[16:32:42] <pfred1> and it isn't even bad here compared to the breadbasket
[16:32:51] <pfred1> out in the midwest forget about it
[16:33:46] <andypugh> jthornton: I think you choose the python code file name as the action for a GUI control
[16:33:46] <pfred1> I've been checking out gambas lately for programming
[16:33:58] <pfred1> anyone here looked at gambas?
[16:34:00] <jthornton> ok, thanks
[16:34:10] <pfred1> it is a visual basic clone
[16:34:28] <pfred1> aptitude install gambas2
[16:35:27] <pfred1> for a quick and dirty gui hack it can't be beat
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[17:21:55] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[17:22:36] <pfred1> hi
[17:24:00] <IchGuckLive> B)
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[17:33:59] <IchGuckLive> do you think its good to get a Tutorial to make a Blender STL radar Mesh Scan to get G-code to your own CAM Data
[17:34:17] <IchGuckLive> Blender §d Radar Laser scanner and hit position 2 G-code
[17:34:50] <pfred1> I can't figure blender out
[17:35:18] <IchGuckLive> it is only good for Lathe Milling without a y axis otherwise you can use standart open source CADCAM
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[17:36:54] <IchGuckLive> pfred1: can you try the last file i uploaded to relise the SCAN http://www.blendpolis.de/download/file.php?id=79447
[17:37:04] <IchGuckLive> you need the latest 2.63a for it
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[17:37:40] <IchGuckLive> yust go over 3D view and hit P
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[17:38:18] <pfred1> I just happen to have blender-2.63-linux-glibc27-i686
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[17:39:33] <IchGuckLive> you need the 2.63a the 2.63 has no phiik engine
[17:39:52] <pfred1> well it opened
[17:40:09] <pfred1> so what am I missing?
[17:40:28] <pfred1> it looks like a dog candlestick
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[17:43:49] <pfred1> I went over it and hit P then this cube lasered the dog
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[17:44:43] <pfred1> it looked like a scene out of spaceballs or something
[17:45:47] <IchGuckLive> if you run it to the end it will give you a file in the folder that goolds the g_code to reproduce the CAT
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[17:46:13] <pfred1> I don't know what you mean run it to the end
[17:46:21] <pfred1> just keep on holding down P?
[17:47:11] <pfred1> I think blender crashed it has become unresponsive
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[17:50:07] <IchGuckLive> it does not respond on scanning towards the end at 90deg see the script
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[17:50:43] <IchGuckLive> script is in Textedit
[17:51:15] <IchGuckLive> there you can make the numbers Rotation scan wide scan depth offset in the axis and so on
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[17:53:18] <pfred1> yeah I reran it and it worked
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[17:53:29] <pfred1> I'd spun the object around the last time
[17:53:36] <pfred1> so that kind of messed it up
[17:54:11] <pfred1> this time there was a red beam that scanned up and down not a cube that flew by and lasered it
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[17:57:01] <pfred1> so where is the g-code?
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[18:00:02] <IchGuckLive> after the gameEngine has finished it retuns to edit mode then you got if you dont changed the name a cat_2G_3m_90Deg.ngc in your folder
[18:00:10] <IchGuckLive> or one folder back
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[18:00:52] <IchGuckLive> i run blender in folder mode so its in the main blender folder
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[18:01:09] <pfred1> oh yeah look at that
[18:01:27] <pfred1> -rw-r--r-- 1 pfred1 pfred1 282382 Jul 15 13:53 cat_2G_3m_90Deg.ngc
[18:01:49] <IchGuckLive> alot of lines
[18:02:05] <pfred1> 14452
[18:02:22] <IchGuckLive> and only 90deg of the Dog
[18:02:25] <pfred1> pfred1@buck:~/bin/blender-2.63-linux-glibc27-i686$ wc -l cat_2G_3m_90Deg.ngc
[18:03:00] <pfred1> oh so it is a dog?
[18:03:00] <r00t4rd3d> http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/077/5/5/hello__911__by_reztips-d4t7vsg.jpg
[18:03:31] <IchGuckLive> im working wright now on a collision sensor that brings in the shape of the cutter so its more accurat then a point scanner
[18:03:57] <pfred1> some kind of an interference type of a thing?
[18:04:41] <pfred1> good thing you told me about that file
[18:04:55] <pfred1> I'd have never known it was there
[18:05:34] <IchGuckLive> you need to wright your own its a game
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[18:19:24] <IchGuckLive> pfred1: its pure python and the use of the Game Engine to get data
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[18:22:02] <IchGuckLive> ok by
[18:22:07] <pfred1> bye
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[19:11:04] <r00t4rd3d> almost done, again
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[19:24:14] <WillenCMD> hello hello!
[19:25:17] <pfred1> hi
[19:25:46] <WillenCMD> slow day on here?
[19:25:58] <pfred1> no slower than any other
[19:26:28] <pfred1> I got something that was on my list today
[19:26:40] <pfred1> it ain't a great one but it should do
[19:26:46] <WillenCMD> how long is your list? :)
[19:26:54] <pfred1> not very long really
[19:26:58] <pfred1> but I always add to it
[19:27:08] <WillenCMD> what did you get?
[19:27:20] <pfred1> I got one of those hand drill guide slide things
[19:27:26] <archivist> that sort of list only grows!
[19:27:49] <pfred1> you know you mount a hand drill on it and it has these rods and a base and you push the drill on it?
[19:28:02] <WillenCMD> like a mag drill?
[19:28:13] <pfred1> I mean I got a drill press and my mill but sometimes I don't want to put stuff onto those
[19:28:23] <pfred1> no not a beam driller
[19:28:30] <toastyde1th> a drill guide.
[19:28:33] <pfred1> this thing I'll find a pic
[19:28:41] <toastyde1th> makes sure the hand drill is 90 deg to the surface
[19:28:50] <WillenCMD> oh i gotcha
[19:28:52] <Tom_itx> oh a laser guide?
[19:29:00] <Tom_itx> mmm
[19:29:02] <toastyde1th> no, a physical guide
[19:29:04] <WillenCMD> like lewis and clark? but for drills
[19:29:05] <pfred1> I think this is the exact one I got http://www.tb3.com/tesla/sparkgaps/DrillGuide.jpg
[19:29:06] <toastyde1th> http://www.amazon.com/General-36-37-Precision-Drill/dp/B00004T82L
[19:29:08] <toastyde1th> like this
[19:29:11] <pfred1> looks a heck of a lot like it
[19:29:33] <pfred1> good thing I saw the pic too
[19:29:41] <pfred1> now i know how to do angles with it
[19:29:52] <andypugh> I took a picture of it, I was so pleased with mysefl: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5645268349766191922 and the following one. Completely hand-held. Well, the drill anyway. The bolt was in a vice.
[19:30:22] <pfred1> what is that a crack pipe?
[19:30:36] <pfred1> whats going on there?
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[19:31:29] <pfred1> toastyde1th I actually need mine to redrill holes for a bench i need to repair for the legs
[19:31:44] <pfred1> so not 90 degrees but some repeatable accuracy is required
[19:32:13] <andypugh> pfred1: Were you asking me?
[19:32:17] <pfred1> that bench has been sitting in my shop for a while now I even thought about trying to toss it up onto my mill
[19:32:33] <pfred1> andypugh yeah that paraphenallia picture you posted a link to
[19:32:54] <pfred1> I heard about you brits!
[19:32:55] <andypugh> Just a bolt I drilled a hole down the middle of.
[19:33:10] <Tom_itx> it's a fuse hole for a cannon
[19:33:19] <andypugh> Before I got a lathe, or a bench drill.
[19:33:25] <pfred1> I still have a head bolt I had to drill out of a block
[19:33:31] <andypugh> I have actually forgotten what it was for.
[19:33:41] <pfred1> man that was touch and go
[19:34:08] <pfred1> danged thing broke like a quarter of an inch below the deck
[19:34:13] <pfred1> I was like oh no my car!
[19:35:07] <pfred1> I donno why they call them easy outs it never seems easy whenever I have to use one
[19:35:34] <Tom_itx> how would it be without it?
[19:36:04] <pfred1> helicoil
[19:36:33] <pfred1> after I drilled it I was like torching that block for about 2 hours before I even tried budging it
[19:37:20] <andypugh> How does one remove the Ubuntu loading screen and see the boot messages scrolling past instead?
[19:37:28] <pfred1> headbolt went between 2 exhaust ports it was born to fail
[19:37:53] <pfred1> good question I know you can do it
[19:38:01] <andypugh> You used an EZ-Out on something you wanted to keep? Blimey that was brave!
[19:38:08] <pfred1> the one great thing about ubuntu is it is easily googable
[19:38:18] <Jymmm> http://urobotics.urology.jhu.edu/projects/BW/
[19:38:22] <Tom_itx> it's in settings i believe
[19:38:29] * Tom_itx looks again
[19:38:48] <andypugh> Yes, googling "arch" won't work at all well.
[19:38:55] <pfred1> andypugh well it was either easy out or scrap the car
[19:39:26] <pfred1> I don't think they give you any extra head bolts
[19:40:02] <andypugh> Yes, but, EZ-outs are smaller than the bolt that broke. So, how are they meant to be stronger than the bolt that broke?
[19:40:26] <pfred1> less fatigued I guess
[19:40:39] <andypugh> Even if they are made of infinitely strong steel, the bolt now has a hole in the middle, so that is weaker than the bolt that broke.
[19:40:49] <pfred1> I've had them not work more than I've had them work
[19:40:53] <pfred1> then I end up retapping
[19:41:31] <andypugh> I am glad it worked for you, but they mainly snap off and leave you with a undrillable bit of hardened steel and spark-erosion bill.
[19:41:38] <pfred1> I think that is the object to weaken the broken bit so you can get it out
[19:42:01] <andypugh> It is much more reliable to drill the bolt out (and a left-hand drill is a good idea)
[19:42:10] <pfred1> when we used to break taps in the machine shop I worked in we'd chisel them out
[19:42:19] <pfred1> make chisels out of beat reamers
[19:42:31] <pfred1> you'd just shatter the junk out
[19:42:47] <andypugh> In your case, you could have made a guide that fitted in the top of the hole to centre the drill, too.
[19:43:26] <andypugh> Yeah, I have smashed up a few taps myself. It's easier with big ones than little ones, though.
[19:43:30] <pfred1> that is the key to make an easy out work center it
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[19:44:08] <andypugh> I have one bolt head glued on on my lathe, with an M3 tap underneath it :-)
[19:44:08] <archivist> spark eroders are wonderful for unfortunate accidents, locals got me a smashed tap out last year
[19:44:53] <Jymmm> archivist: do they work for blind holes?
[19:44:55] <pfred1> they make tap extractors
[19:45:09] <archivist> Jymmm, yes
[19:45:14] <Jymmm> cool
[19:45:16] <pfred1> we'd only break out really little ones
[19:45:30] <atom1> andypugh, To set splash image preferences, you
[19:45:30] <atom1> modify the value of the preference keys in the /apps/gnome-session/options/ location. For example, if you do not want users ever to see a
[19:45:31] <atom1> splash image, set a mandatory value as follows:
[19:45:51] <atom1> is that what you're after?
[19:45:57] <andypugh> atom1: I should have said: LiveCD boot...
[19:46:03] <atom1> o
[19:46:16] <pfred1> probbaly nosplash for a boot parameter
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[19:47:18] <Tom_itx> Jymmm send me one of those ball screw thingies
[19:47:22] <pfred1> eyah boot=nosplash
[19:47:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Heh, you are suppose to MAKE one, the patent is at the bottom with drawings
[19:49:03] <Tom_itx> what do they use in power steering units?
[19:49:07] <Tom_itx> no ballscrews?
[19:49:47] <archivist> rack and pinion
[19:50:00] <Tom_itx> not the older ones
[19:50:03] <Tom_itx> were they?
[19:50:08] <Tom_itx> like GM used
[19:50:10] <pfred1> worm gears
[19:50:14] <Tom_itx> k
[19:50:25] <pfred1> a steering box
[19:50:36] <pfred1> pitman arm style
[19:50:37] <archivist> the old were a ball screw and nut
[19:51:24] <pfred1> andypugh on the grub menu hit e then add nosplash to the commandline
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[19:51:58] <andypugh> I have tried that, but can't figure out how to get it to then carry on booting.
[19:52:08] <pfred1> hit enter
[19:52:51] <andypugh> "b" takes me to BIOS boot, esc takes me back to the grub menu, but not (as far as I can see) with the new options
[19:53:20] <WillenCMD> http://anonir.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/ubuntu-lucid-disable-boot-splash/
[19:53:28] <WillenCMD> i followed this to remove the splash
[19:53:37] <WillenCMD> works like a charm
[19:53:58] <pfred1> WillenCMD andypugh wants to disable live CD boot splash
[19:54:17] <WillenCMD> nevermind
[19:54:18] <pfred1> only way is to edit the grub command line
[19:54:39] <pfred1> nosplash on it should work I don't know why it won't tacceit it and just boot
[19:54:45] <pfred1> accept it even
[19:54:58] <andypugh> Actually, I remebered that I now have the rtai kernel on the boot volume so editing geub probably is an option.
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[19:55:32] <pfred1> I like scrolling boots myself i hate splash booting
[19:55:50] <pfred1> I want to see the machine doing something
[19:56:15] <andypugh> I want to see the point at which the boot fails
[19:56:36] <pfred1> always helpful
[19:57:00] <Jymmm> http://askubuntu.com/questions/128751/how-to-boot-with-no-splash-screen
[19:57:43] <pfred1> being as how on a live CD the only thing you can edit is the grub commandline i can't see there being any other answer
[19:57:48] <Jymmm> http://askubuntu.com/questions/127130/splash-problem-with-ubuntu-12-04?rq=1
[19:58:55] <pfred1> although if you wanted to I suppose you could edit the iso and reburn it
[19:59:22] <pfred1> seems like an awful lot of trouble ot me though
[19:59:49] * Jymmm preference... quiet nosplash vga=794
[20:00:07] <pfred1> what does quiet do?
[20:00:53] <pfred1> this is strange I have no grub manual page?
[20:03:16] <pfred1> hmm this sounds dangerous grub-editenv - edit GRUB environment block
[20:04:12] <andypugh> Hmm, very odd.
[20:04:40] <pfred1> I think the last time I passed parameters to a Linux kernel I was still running lilo
[20:04:51] <pfred1> I don't think I've ever done it for grub
[20:05:15] <andypugh> It boots to the stage of loading USB thingies, then stops. But if you plug and unplug USB devices, it notices them and prints IDs etc to screen.
[20:05:19] <pfred1> just never has come up
[20:05:30] <pfred1> that is strange
[20:05:31] <andypugh> So it isn't actually crashed, it just isn't doing anything
[20:05:46] <pfred1> linux can hate on your without a net connection too
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[20:05:55] <pfred1> but it eventually gets over it
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[20:06:27] <andypugh> No, it finally dropped to BusyBox:
[20:06:32] <pfred1> sweet
[20:06:46] <andypugh> Not really
[20:07:12] <pfred1> if you ever want to make someone never run Linux give them a copy of arch to run :)
[20:07:23] <andypugh> check root= bootarg cat /proc/cmdline
[20:07:59] <andypugh> or missing modules, devices cat /proc/modules ls /dev
[20:08:24] <pfred1> did you md5sum your CD image?
[20:08:40] <pfred1> it sounds broken to me
[20:09:14] <andypugh> ALERT! /dev/disk/by-uuid/3b23438d-c9d6-{etc etc} does not exist. Dropping to a shell
[20:09:29] <pfred1> hmmm
[20:09:34] <pfred1> I hate uuid
[20:09:40] <andypugh> Well, this is with the rtai kernel installed using the script.
[20:10:28] <pfred1> you can get around uuid by labeling your partitions
[20:10:53] <pfred1> not sure how that applies to live images though
[20:11:42] <pfred1> I wonder if you can label a CD I think you can
[20:12:51] <andypugh> I am not booting from LiveCD now.
[20:13:01] <andypugh> This is booting from the drive in the machine.
[20:13:34] <pfred1> have you changed your boot drive?
[20:14:11] <pfred1> no that doesn't make sense then you wouldn't be booting now would you
[20:14:43] <pfred1> reload grub
[20:15:24] <andypugh> how?
[20:15:34] <andypugh> Do I look like a geek?
[20:15:40] <andypugh> :-)
[20:16:02] <pfred1> boot off other media then you have to mount your system oh what the hell is it called
[20:16:16] <pfred1> having a senior moment
[20:16:46] <andypugh> Sounds difficult.
[20:17:04] <pfred1> nah it ain't that bad slackware used to just print the command on the screen for you
[20:17:10] <pfred1> it is one command
[20:17:16] <andypugh> Things you need to know: This is a Vortex86 machine, booting from a Compact Flash card
[20:17:31] <pfred1> linux don't care it al lworks the same
[20:17:49] <pfred1> this is driving me nuts i can't remember what it is called
[20:18:16] <andypugh> I have no idea wha you are going to suggest even.
[20:18:34] <andypugh> I think the problem is probably in the kernel options.
[20:19:11] <pfred1> it sounds like your fstab is cooked could be a grub config file too
[20:19:30] <pfred1> just give me a sec the name will come to me
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[20:20:56] <pfred1> you actually enter it onto the grub commandline
[20:23:17] <pfred1> andypugh this looks like directions http://www.av8n.com/computer/htm/grub-reinstall.htm
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[20:25:05] <pfred1> still driving me nuts because this isn't even how I used to do it
[20:25:08] <andypugh> Did I mention that the machine still boots fine with the kernel it came with?
[20:25:26] <pfred1> oh then you neder ran update-grub
[20:25:30] <pfred1> never even
[20:25:44] <pfred1> OK this is a local kernel you built?
[20:26:17] <pfred1> you might have forotten to include your root filesystem support
[20:26:27] <pfred1> that is a popular one that stops you cold
[20:27:05] <andypugh> It came with kernels 2.6.30-vortex86mx-apm and 2.6.24-16-generic.
[20:27:16] <andypugh> The first will boot it, the second won't
[20:27:44] <pfred1> how did you install the kernel did you do it the debian way? which automates installing the modules and making your initrd
[20:27:51] <andypugh> I booted with the vortex one, ran the LinuxCNC install script, and that added 2.6.24-16-rtai
[20:28:24] <andypugh> But that won't boot either. Not that surprising considering that the vanilla unpatched version didn't either.
[20:28:33] <pfred1> check in /lib/modules make sure someone didn't stomp out the other guy's modules
[20:28:46] <andypugh> And AFAIK the LinuxCNC install script uses debs
[20:28:57] <pfred1> if you have two kernels same version they'll share the modules directory
[20:29:05] <pfred1> which isn't good
[20:29:20] <pfred1> because the modules will only work for one kernel
[20:29:44] <andypugh> It still boots happily into Ubuntu with the vortex kernel
[20:29:46] <pfred1> well there is a way to possibly make them work but it isn't the default
[20:29:58] <pfred1> because it is a different version has its own modules dir
[20:30:14] <pfred1> module stomping ia bad
[20:30:22] <andypugh> I don't understand
[20:30:33] <pfred1> 2.6.24-16
[20:30:45] <pfred1> 2.6.24-16-rtai
[20:30:57] <pfred1> 2.6.24-16-generic
[20:31:01] <andypugh> Before I installed 2.6.24-16-rtai it wouldn't boot from 2.6.24-16-generic.
[20:31:19] <pfred1> I think installing one stomped on the other's modules
[20:31:36] <andypugh> It has only ever booted from 2.6.30-vortex86mx-apm
[20:31:54] <pfred1> although hmm I'm thinking look in /boot at your initrds
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[20:31:58] <andypugh> It still only boots from the vortex kernel
[20:32:05] <pfred1> because boot should run off initrd
[20:32:27] <pfred1> it shouldn't even go fishing in /lib/modules
[20:32:47] <pfred1> I think your initrd might be broken
[20:32:54] <cei> Is there any way to view the status of all parallel port pins?
[20:32:56] <pfred1> that is what loads the drivers yo uneed in order to boot
[20:33:06] <pfred1> cei yes
[20:33:24] <pfred1> there's an app for that
[20:33:48] <andypugh> cei http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Parallel_Port_Tester
[20:34:01] <pfred1> is that the one with the row of fake LEDs?
[20:34:05] <andypugh> Yes
[20:34:08] <pfred1> :)
[20:34:16] <pfred1> that is the app I was thinking of then
[20:34:26] <andypugh> pfred1: So, why will it boot one kernel but not the other?
[20:34:28] <cei> thanks!
[20:34:44] <pfred1> andypugh just look in /boot and see what is there
[20:34:46] <andypugh> I think it looks more like a problem in the kernels
[20:34:56] <pfred1> well that is where your kernel is
[20:35:01] <pfred1> it is in /boot
[20:35:16] <pfred1> but along with that will be your system map files and initrds
[20:35:48] <andypugh> You realise this is all gibberish to me?
[20:35:56] <pfred1> doesn't matter just go look
[20:36:15] <andypugh> I am waiting for it to drop to shell again
[20:36:30] <pfred1> I thought you had one good booting kernel?
[20:36:40] <pfred1> use it not the broken ones
[20:37:03] <andypugh> Now I need to decise which way is faster..
[20:37:12] <pfred1> you say you installed this kernel with a script
[20:37:38] <cei> andypugh, That tool shows my first parallel port, but not my second. Is there a premade tool that would show both or should I modify this tool?
[20:37:42] <pfred1> is the basic system Ubuntu?
[20:38:07] <andypugh> cei: Let me look at the files
[20:38:17] <pfred1> that thing has to be python
[20:38:29] <pfred1> all them little gewgaws are
[20:39:06] <cei> no python that i can see!
[20:39:12] <pfred1> it isn't?
[20:39:22] <andypugh> cei: To look at one port at a time, edit the address in the first line of the HAL file. (0x378 by defult).
[20:39:43] <cei> I see, thanks
[20:39:49] <pfred1> it sounds like they wish to view all at once
[20:40:11] <pfred1> can't pop up more than one at a time?
[20:40:11] <cei> meh, It's easy enough to switch addresses
[20:40:19] <andypugh> To view two at a time, hmm, I don't think you can without adding a second set of LEDs to the XML file
[20:40:27] <pfred1> ah
[20:40:37] <cei> If I really need it I can figure that out
[20:41:12] <pfred1> andypugh in any event boot your "good" kernel yo ucan fix the broken one better from it
[20:41:29] <pfred1> the beauty of Linux is you can always have a good kernel
[20:41:35] <andypugh> cei: You _could_ duplicate the XML with different names for the LEDs, then duplicate all the "net" commands in the HAL for parport.1.xxx and add both addresses to the loart hal_parport line
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[20:43:17] <cei> THanks for the help all
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[20:43:32] <pfred1> I have 3 kernels that are all the same version on this machine but due to revisions they have 3 unique names
[20:43:46] <andypugh> pfred1: What should I look at?
[20:43:54] <pfred1> you're in /boot?
[20:44:18] <andypugh> I have 3x config, 3x initrd and 3xSystem and 3xvmlinuz
[20:44:32] <pfred1> andypugh do you have an initrd.img for each kernel?
[20:44:40] <pfred1> OK 3 of each
[20:45:06] <andypugh> And a .bak of one of the initrd
[20:45:07] <pfred1> that means your revision names are saving you from overwriting
[20:45:42] <andypugh> I would have thought that I would have seen the problem before, on other machines, if the rtai-kernel didn't play nice
[20:48:40] <pfred1> if it was me I'd try update-grub again
[20:49:01] <pfred1> something went bad on the kernel install unless as yo usay the kernel is just bum
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[20:50:39] <andypugh> Aye, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=813090 looks interesting
[20:50:51] <pfred1> do this
[20:51:03] <andypugh> I think I am on grub1
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[20:51:11] <pfred1> see what your uuid is in /etc/fstab then in grub.cfg:
[20:51:32] <pfred1> hmmm I doubt it grub2 is been around a while now
[20:51:41] <pfred1> I hate grub2 compared to 1 too
[20:51:49] <pfred1> but can't fight progress
[20:52:00] <pfred1> heck I liked lilo
[20:52:07] <pfred1> it was simple
[20:52:30] <pfred1> just grep boot /etc/fstab
[20:52:48] <pfred1> then grep that stupid number in /boot/grub
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[20:53:07] <pfred1> grep simelongmeaninglessnumber /boot/grub/*
[20:53:11] <andypugh> Looks like that might be it
[20:53:20] <andypugh> That stupid number is in fstab
[20:53:27] <Jymmm> pfred1: We have these things called moving pictures now, with sound and everything!
[20:53:49] * pfred1 throws stone tablets at Jymmm ...
[20:54:06] <pfred1> I give you the 10 commandments!
[20:54:20] <Jymmm> pfred1: You misspelled 'Thou'
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[20:55:17] <pfred1> it is amazing you can read gilgamesh today but we can't read an 8" floppy anymore
[20:55:32] <pfred1> media that has come and gone in my lifetime
[20:56:11] <pfred1> heck a little while ago I couldn't get 2 3.5 floppy drives to read a disk written by one
[20:56:38] <pfred1> I was in there with PB blaster trying to get one to run better didn't happen for me
[20:56:58] <Jymmm> 78, 45, 33, reel to reel, 8 track, cassette, cd, mp3, streaming
[20:57:10] <pfred1> I still have a turntable
[20:57:26] <pfred1> I even had it hooked up to my PC for a bit ripped some records on it
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[20:58:00] <mcenter> Is there a forum post or wiki page that helps with steps for commissioning servos?
[20:58:10] <Jymmm> film, beta, laserdisc, vhs, dvd, blueray, streaming
[20:58:25] <pfred1> I never got a blu-ray
[20:58:33] <skunkworks__> mcenter: what do you have?
[20:58:36] <andypugh> mcenter: Several. None very good
[21:00:11] <mcenter> 5i25 + 7i77 with baldor 26M drives setup for +-10V velocity demand.
[21:00:55] <pfred1> andypugh I still think update-grub may fix your problem
[21:01:13] <pfred1> can't hurt
[21:01:55] <mcenter> I am trying to understand the whole HAL thing. I have read HAL manual lightly several times. The Integrators manual, etc.
[21:02:08] <pfred1> like me
[21:02:50] <pfred1> HAL is like any other difficult thing you just have to keep at it and slowly it'll come to you
[21:02:58] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/FeWVz.gif
[21:03:49] <pfred1> I need a girl that dumb
[21:03:55] <mcenter> At some point I want to do a little tuning. I copied parameters from previous motion controller, but I suspect they may not work because of different base period.
[21:04:53] <pfred1> k I'm out to go watch one of them dar movin pictures here
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[21:05:34] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:06:20] <Jymmm> gn9
[21:06:26] -!- DJ9DJ has quit [Quit: bye]
[21:07:53] <mcenter> AFK. going for a swim.
[21:08:06] <r00t4rd3d> 30cal bolt action pens:
[21:08:07] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/pTb2E.jpg
[21:09:31] <Jymmm> TSA wouldn't let these aboard because it said the word "anthrax" (seriosuly) http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/6708/images/
[21:09:53] <r00t4rd3d> Sanduskied:
[21:09:54] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/g534q.jpg
[21:15:40] <r00t4rd3d> someone king me, im crowning.
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[21:20:21] <andypugh> mcenter: When you get back, give me a shout
[21:21:07] <andypugh> <snort> at chicken pox
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[21:40:38] <Jymmm> what are those flat bearings that look like a washer called?
[21:41:32] <Jymmm> ah thrust
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[21:48:47] <r00t4rd3d> MORNING
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[22:52:45] <frallzor> ahoyhoy
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[23:42:11] <JT-Shop> zzzzzzzzzzz
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[23:47:05] <Jymmm> is this real/pure tungsten? http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14002083-10pcs_thoriated_tungsten_electrode_20_x_150_mm.html
[23:48:02] <JT-Shop> the pure tungsten will say just that, and is used to weld aluminum mostly
[23:48:48] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: is pure better than alloy for strength as a shaft as apposed to a welding rod?
[23:48:55] <Jymmm> opposed
[23:49:43] <JT-Shop> dunno, I only weld with them
[23:49:53] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: do they bend eaisly?
[23:49:58] <Jymmm> easily
[23:50:25] <JT-Shop> never tried to break one
[23:50:38] <jdh> they bend
[23:50:45] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: not break, just bend. as in tarp/tent stakes
[23:50:58] <Jymmm> pounding into ground, etc
[23:50:58] <JT-Shop> the smallest I use is 1/16"
[23:51:09] <JT-Shop> never tried to break or bend one
[23:51:10] <Jymmm> ah
[23:52:50] <jdh> we use .045
[23:53:35] <JT-Shop> 3/64"?
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[23:54:08] <Jymmm> 3.2mm ~= 0.125"
[23:54:38] <jdh> they are marked in decimal
[23:55:14] <JT-Shop> what do you weld with such a small rod?
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[23:55:25] <jdh> zircalloy tubing
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[23:55:35] <JT-Shop> cool
[23:56:07] <jdh> 99 welds, replace electrode.. they look perfect when removed.
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[23:59:36] <maddogma> I'm trying to get camview (from psha.org.ru ) running on linuxcnc 2.5. When I run camview from a terminal, I get a segfault and the following error in /var/log/messages : camview[1563]: segfault at 8 ip 00de46bc sp bfe19280 error 6 in liblinuxcnchal.so.0[ddf000+8000]. Any ideas?
[23:59:52] <Jymmm> heh http://www.pupman.com/listarchives/1996/september/msg00141.html