#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-29

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[00:04:56] <atex57> OK Back to it. When I do an install with the stock Pico System PWM files everything loads OK, the encoders show a change when I tweak each axis. If I make any changes to the INI file it throws up an error file with the problems. Where is a good place to post these so someone else can look at them?
[00:07:48] <andypugh> www.pastebin.org
[00:10:03] <atex57> I clicked on that and it came up as pastebin.com, not org. Same thing?
[00:10:17] <andypugh> yes
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[00:16:32] <atex57> OK, the error file is on pastebin with the name of hardinge-chnc-atex57
[00:18:04] <atex57> The only changes from org file was change axes to 3 and remove A from the list to cause this error
[00:19:51] <andypugh> It's easier to give the URL, the name was about number 50 in the list...
[00:20:46] <andypugh> The real problem is: "univpwm_servo.hal:16: Pin 'axis.3.motor-pos-fb' does not exist"
[00:21:04] <andypugh> Do you have an Axis.3 ? Typically that would be A.
[00:21:18] <Tom_itx> ok i don't quite get this. with the main psu unplugged i get 3.2v on an open limit switch and with it plugged in i get 4.65v
[00:21:44] <Tom_itx> ground on the meter is on the mesa card
[00:21:46] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Mesa card?
[00:21:48] <Tom_itx> yes
[00:22:02] <Tom_itx> the voltage is taken at the switch
[00:22:06] <andypugh> 5V from the main PSU to the Mesa card?
[00:22:17] <andypugh> It will run from PCI voltage at 3.3 I think
[00:22:23] <Tom_itx> off the 50 pin header
[00:22:39] <Tom_itx> why the voltage fluctuation though?
[00:22:53] <andypugh> Unless there is a 5V supply to the mesa card it only has 3.3V from the PCI bus (I think)
[00:22:56] <Tom_itx> the mesa card is powered off the usb from the pc
[00:23:24] <andypugh> 7i43?
[00:23:32] <Tom_itx> yes along with a 7i47
[00:23:39] <andypugh> Jumpered for USB power?
[00:23:46] <Tom_itx> but the switches are coming right off teh 7i43
[00:23:48] <Tom_itx> yes
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[00:23:59] <andypugh> The honest answer is, I have no idea.
[00:24:06] <Tom_itx> heh, me either
[00:24:07] <Tom_itx> yet
[00:24:17] <Tom_itx> it worked ok with the old drivers and psu
[00:24:22] <andypugh> pcw_home: would be the best bet
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[00:24:38] <Tom_itx> i hate to make a bunch of changes not knowing
[00:24:52] <Tom_itx> i brought it in my office to try to debug
[00:25:10] <andypugh> atex57: You need to remove all references to axis.3 if you only have 3 axes.
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[00:25:42] <andypugh> Anyway, I need to log off and sleep.
[00:25:44] <andypugh> Night all.
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[00:26:19] <Tom_itx> maybe i should try powering it from a regular 5v supply
[00:26:34] <robin_sz> mmmm
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[00:27:00] <Tom_itx> the grounds etc would be alot closer to being common
[00:27:18] <Tom_itx> i just can't figure out the voltage fluxuation
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[00:27:45] <Tom_itx> the cables to the machine are shielded
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[00:33:21] <Tom_itx> the voltage to the switches is 4.79 ... 4.86v before linuxcnc is launnched and the config files read
[00:38:18] <Tom_itx> ok, which way is best to wire a limit switch, normaly grounded and when tripped goes to 5v or normally 5v and goes to ground when tripped?
[00:39:23] <Tom_itx> of all things this is the last i figured i'd have problems with
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[00:45:03] <pcw_home> 3.2 v is because the 7I43 has pullups to 3.3V so open inputs will be at ~3.3V
[00:45:05] <pcw_home> if add an external pullup resistor to 5V or drive them with a 5V signal
[00:45:06] <pcw_home> you can pull them up to 5V
[00:45:23] <skunkworks__> I get is kick out of old house construction... http://www.electronicsam.com/images/house/StartBathremod.JPG
[00:45:25] <skunkworks__> \
[00:45:47] <skunkworks__> yes - the stack was cut right through the floor joists.
[00:47:38] <pcw_home> if you use bare FPGA pins for switch inputs you need to ground them through the switches since all FPGA pins have pullups
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[00:48:04] <Valen> skunkworks its ok joists are strong right?
[00:48:05] <Valen> ;-P
[00:48:33] <pcw_home> whats the rule of thumb? no more than 40% gone?
[00:49:35] <pcw_home> (or maybe thats for termites)
[00:50:17] <Valen> in my place they put a wall mount AC in
[00:50:29] <Valen> here we dont shethe the building in ply
[00:50:36] <Valen> we just put timber diagonals in
[00:50:41] <Valen> well they cut the diagonal
[00:50:49] <pcw_home> ouch
[00:51:45] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, so under normal conditions they are low?
[00:51:55] <Tom_itx> and when tripped it opens and goes to 3.3v or so
[00:52:27] <Valen> like this http://toolboxes.flexiblelearning.net.au/demosites/series13/13_05/toolbox13_05/unit7_assembling_wall_frames/images/internal_wall_frame.jpg but recessed into the wall, and usually a 1x1 bit of timber (you can see the new way they do it with the metal strapping on the other side of the wall)
[00:52:28] <pcw_home> thats the easiest thingfor bare FPGA pins
[00:52:46] <Tom_itx> i'm double checking the wiring to make sure that's what i have
[00:52:58] <Valen> I'd be wary about having bare fpga i/os running any distance, they are pretty fragile as i recall
[00:53:31] <Tom_itx> pcw_home it's ok to use them that way right? or should they be buffered....
[00:53:53] <pcw_home> lots of people use them but if you connect to 12v or so its all over
[00:54:00] <Tom_itx> i know
[00:54:11] <pcw_home> or -1V
[00:54:16] <Tom_itx> at best it will be from a 5v supply
[00:54:19] <Valen> or a staticy hand?
[00:55:13] <Tom_itx> i'll post a line to see if i have that part right.. hang on
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[00:55:35] <pcw_home> yeah although most damaged cards we see have blown protection diodes which means to high a voltage and no current limiting
[00:55:53] <atom1> net x-pos-limit hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.046.in => axis.0.home-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
[00:55:58] <pcw_home> seen and too high
[00:56:01] <atom1> does that part look ok?
[00:56:41] <atom1> or should i configure the pin differently first
[00:56:58] <pcw_home> looks ok (high for "past-limit"
[00:57:11] <Tom_itx> or open
[00:57:13] <Tom_itx> ok
[00:57:56] <pcw_home> what does watch show if you click the limit switches?
[00:58:30] <Tom_itx> i haven't tried it yet
[00:58:45] <Tom_itx> this setup worked fine with my old drivers and psu setup
[00:59:05] <Tom_itx> this is a new driver psu and drivers (gecko 203v)
[00:59:23] <Tom_itx> for some reason when i plug them in it interferes with it
[00:59:24] <pcw_home> watch is handy and you can save a watch list
[00:59:30] <Tom_itx> i've checked the grounds etc
[00:59:42] <Tom_itx> i'll check that once i double check the wiring
[01:00:13] <pcw_home> well the FPGA inputs are just TTL threshold so you have only about 1.5V of noise immunity
[01:00:22] <jymmm> JT-Shop: got one of these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri_5dmULUJ0
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[01:02:17] <pcw_home> if they basically work (check with watch) but are noisy you probably need to look at your wiring / grounding carefully or add hardware or software debounce
[01:06:43] <pcw_home> Note that your step drives (50V?) put 50V rectangular waves into the stepmotor with perhaps 20-50 ns rise times, This drives the winding --> frame capacitance of your stepmotors so you get basically unlimited magnitude current spikes from step motor frame ground back to the drive
[01:06:45] <pcw_home> this can easily generate couple volt spikes _everywhere_
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[01:12:06] <Tom_itx> would it help to run shielded wire to the switches?
[01:12:38] <Tom_itx> it's shielded up to where it enters the machine enclosure
[01:13:32] <cylly2> and ists a good idea to set the shield only on ONE end to ground
[01:13:47] <Tom_itx> yeah i know that one
[01:13:53] <cylly2> let the other end float
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[01:14:14] <pcw_home> Yes as long as the shield terminates at the 7I43 end (and does not touch frame ground)
[01:15:20] <Tom_itx> just curious but why is only one mount screw on the gnd plane on that card?
[01:15:37] <Tom_itx> the one by the usb connector is
[01:15:55] <Loetmichel> hrmpf... i should go to bed... the clock rings in 3,5hrs to wake me for work...
[01:16:15] <Tom_itx> sleep when you get there
[01:16:17] <pcw_home> no mounting hole should be grounded (but one near USB connector has AC gnd)
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[01:23:09] <pcw_home> you can get rid of a lot of step drive noise with couple common mode chokes (one per step motor winding) basically a overgrown ferrite bead
[01:24:35] <Tom_itx> wind the wire thru it like you see on monitors?
[01:24:43] <Tom_itx> or used to..
[01:25:20] <pcw_home> these limit the magnitude of the current spikes into the step drive/motor frame capacitance
[01:25:47] <Tom_itx> once i finish checking the switch wiring i'll double check the frames are grounded as well
[01:26:33] <pcw_home> Ive had good luck straight through but it probably depends on the core material
[01:28:57] <pcw_home> of course the usual things (twist A,/A and B,/B step motor wires)
[01:28:59] <pcw_home> step wires away from other signals etc
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[01:46:33] <r00t4rd3d> What I accomplished today, motor wire extensions soldered, shrink tubed and taped:
[01:46:34] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/mgtPZ.jpg
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[01:48:30] <Tom_itx> been there: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/motors/stepper9.jpg
[01:50:25] <r00t4rd3d> i like to solder and am good at it but after 4 wires i was ready to kill myself
[01:51:08] <r00t4rd3d> stripping, twisting, fluxing, more twisting
[01:51:14] <r00t4rd3d> tinning
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[01:52:38] <jdhNC> I put terminal strips next to the motors on my router.
[01:53:00] <r00t4rd3d> i have some for a breadboard
[01:53:04] <jdhNC> I'm planning on 4-pin connectors for these mounted in small project boxes mounted on the steppoer offsets
[01:53:59] <r00t4rd3d> i should have used bnc connectors
[01:54:21] <r00t4rd3d> i still might for my board connections
[01:54:26] <jdhNC> that would take a lot of BNC connectors
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[02:05:46] <jymmm> taped? What is this, ghetto cabling... you dont use tape!
[02:06:31] <jymmm> unless it's teflon tape for plumbing
[02:10:52] <r00t4rd3d> just to hold the wires together
[02:11:01] <r00t4rd3d> i soldered all the connections
[02:11:10] <jymmm> heat shrink tubing
[02:11:16] <jymmm> spiral wrap
[02:11:18] <r00t4rd3d> i used that too
[02:11:21] <jymmm> split loom tubing
[02:11:32] <r00t4rd3d> im using wire chain
[02:11:33] <jymmm> 1/2" heat shrink tubing
[02:12:22] <jymmm> I would have used shielded cabling
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[02:15:39] <Tom_itx> jymmm, whag gage?
[02:15:53] <Tom_itx> whst*
[02:15:58] <jymmm> 18
[02:15:58] <Tom_itx> i give up
[02:16:15] <Tom_itx> trying to type over a pile of test equipment
[02:16:37] <Tom_itx> that's it?
[02:16:38] <jymmm> HD has/had 2 pair shielded 18ga cable
[02:16:48] <jymmm> by the foot
[02:16:50] <Tom_itx> for steppers?
[02:17:10] <jymmm> for anything
[02:17:32] <Tom_itx> i didn't use shielded but i think it's 14 or 16
[02:17:39] <Tom_itx> probably 16
[02:17:45] <jymmm> nema 23?
[02:17:50] <Tom_itx> ja
[02:17:57] <jymmm> 4a?
[02:18:05] <Tom_itx> if i reconfigure them yes
[02:18:48] <Tom_itx> maybe i should cut the wires off the old ones and use it
[02:18:58] <Tom_itx> it may be shielded, i can't tell
[02:19:40] <Tom_itx> i think my switch wiring is right
[02:22:30] <jymmm> ou can use 18ga for 40A @ 3ft, 24A @ 5ft, 15A @ 10ft, 8A @ 15ft, 7A @ 25ft,
[02:23:00] <Tom_itx> this was stuff i had
[02:23:10] <jymmm> ah
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[02:24:06] <Tom_itx> if i find out the original steppers wires were shielded i may cut them off and use them instead
[02:25:30] <Tom_itx> i think they were 6 wire steppers and the ones i have now are 8
[02:25:43] <Tom_itx> not that it matters
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[02:26:17] <jymmm> =)
[02:26:43] <Tom_itx> do you sell a kit?
[02:26:57] <Tom_itx> it sounded like you had something the other day
[02:27:17] <jymmm> What did I say the other day?
[02:27:50] <r00t4rd3d> that you were secretly fond of Tom.
[02:28:33] <jymmm> r00t4rd3d: I told you that in the confidence of our bed you bastard!
[02:29:14] <r00t4rd3d> i could not understand you, your mouth was full.
[02:29:17] <Tom_itx> [22:42:21] <jymmm> $1300 for that?! I could easily sell mine for much more then, cool!
[02:30:02] <jymmm> Tom_itx: Oh, my router as it has a gorliia stnad, dust enclosure, and shit load of componantes and enclosures I'm including
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[02:30:15] <jymmm> computers, etc
[02:30:21] <r00t4rd3d> put it on ebay
[02:30:27] <Tom_itx> oh so just a one off sale
[02:30:36] <Tom_itx> why are you gettin rid of it?
[02:30:51] <r00t4rd3d> he is smoking that shit again
[02:31:10] <Tom_itx> sounds like you both are
[02:31:14] <r00t4rd3d> cracks rock or what ever you call it
[02:31:23] <jymmm> Tom_itx: Well, I have the laser now, and that was my original intension, I bought/build the router as a pseudo laser.
[02:32:04] <Tom_itx> so umm, did you ever fix the laser table?
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[02:32:06] <jymmm> PLus mine has a 24x24x5 travel
[02:32:22] <jymmm> the router that is
[02:32:37] <r00t4rd3d> mine is 12x36x10
[02:32:46] <jymmm> and a 2.25HP spindle 18-25K rpm soft start
[02:32:49] <Tom_itx> show off
[02:33:51] <Tom_itx> well crap, i'm not sure where to go with this
[02:34:07] <jymmm> Hell, I'm even including Parker OEM650/750 drives too
[02:35:01] <jymmm> industrial connectors, controls, etc
[02:35:15] <jymmm> DIn rail stuff
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[02:37:23] <jymmm> Tom_itx: I'm also kinda getting rid of stuff to prepare to move sometime in the future. So anything of bulk is pretty much gone. Enough pack ratting.
[02:37:48] <jymmm> consolidate, shrink, reduce is the goal
[02:38:12] <jymmm> Tom_itx: you never saw my racks?
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[02:38:31] <Tom_itx> you got quite a rack?
[02:38:45] <jymmm> plural
[02:38:57] <Tom_itx> crap, this is 22 ga
[02:39:03] <Tom_itx> what's that good for?
[02:39:08] <Tom_itx> on the old steppers...
[02:39:11] <jymmm> steppers, telco
[02:39:23] <jymmm> stranded or solid ?
[02:39:34] <Tom_itx> belden M-8723
[02:39:48] <jymmm> I'm not going to look that shit up
[02:40:00] <Tom_itx> aww c'mon
[02:40:10] <Tom_itx> stranded
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[02:40:30] <jymmm> should be find for 3a
[02:40:42] <Tom_itx> i want 4
[02:41:08] <Tom_itx> i wonder what that white jacketed wire i have is..
[02:41:26] <Tom_itx> i'd have to double them up but it's shielded
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[04:27:47] <jdhNC> http://tinyurl.com/cqq22d5 Not quite square, but close enough.
[04:42:22] <Connor> What did you use ?
[04:42:30] <Connor> jdhNC: ?
[04:42:39] <jdhNC> X2, .5" HSS end mill
[04:42:49] <Connor> Ah. How come not square? :)
[04:43:09] <jdhNC> didn't clamp it square to the table
[04:43:41] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/130097-connors_g0704-11.html#post1120276
[04:43:56] <Connor> Posts and Photos, including my home switch and my E-Stop control box
[04:45:23] <jdhNC> I spent an hour picking aluminum chips out of everything before I could get the table off.
[04:45:43] <Connor> Shop Vac!
[04:45:48] <jdhNC> that too
[04:46:22] <jdhNC> I put another spst switch between the f/r & speed pot for disabling the C41 spindle disable
[04:46:27] <Connor> on #3 of my stepper covers.. first 1 not good, had to redesign. 2nd one great except I forgot to mirror the freaking holes to mount it to the stepper... so they're backwards..
[04:46:39] <jdhNC> got pics?
[04:46:48] <Connor> NOt yet. the 3rd one will be done shortly.
[04:47:20] <Connor> Letting the PVC cement setup on the last layer so I can surface that, pocket out the hole for the 4 pin connector and then profile cut.
[04:47:39] <jdhNC> how are you holding it?
[04:47:39] <Connor> probably another 30 or 40 minutes and a tool change.. :)
[04:47:45] <Connor> in the vise.
[04:48:12] <Connor> 3.5" x .75" pvc.. clamp it in the vise.. mill out the main pocket.
[04:48:39] <Connor> glue smaller 2nd pvc over the "2nd pocket" let it pocket it out..
[04:48:50] <Connor> then, it surfaces the main pocket and the 2nd pocket.
[04:48:56] <Connor> glue 3rd on top of 2nd.
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[04:49:11] <jdhNC> my ways/gibs/etc were pretty clean (spotless now)
[04:49:29] <Connor> surface, then the connector hole, then profile out the part. then drill the 4 holes.
[04:49:38] <Connor> Cool.
[04:49:38] <jdhNC> I will have to take the Y ballnut off to install it.
[04:49:45] <Connor> I thought so.
[04:49:52] <jdhNC> no clue what I will use to keep the balls in
[04:50:14] <Connor> take wood dial and turn it down on your mill to the correct size..
[04:50:31] <Connor> you'll want to remove and install it on the un-machined side.
[04:50:42] <jdhNC> yeah, only way on that one.
[04:51:00] <Connor> remove the white disks. (mark them as to which on goes were and index them...
[04:51:49] <jdhNC> my X ballnut doesn't sound quite right after dremel/grinding
[04:51:50] <Connor> put the dowel on end, and slowly back the nut off.. keeping pressure on the dowel.
[04:52:00] <jdhNC> wonder if I melted something.
[04:52:14] <Connor> Could have melted the insides of the plastic return.
[04:52:15] <jdhNC> take off both white covers, even the 'inside' one?
[04:52:29] <Connor> white covers, the ones on each end.
[04:52:54] <jdhNC> yeah, but both have to be removed?
[04:53:03] <Connor> would be best.
[04:53:17] <jdhNC> I should go ahead and order extra balls :)
[04:53:22] <Connor> that way you can keep a eye on the balls.
[04:53:30] <jdhNC> wonder if chai would pre-grind a ballnut
[04:53:45] <Connor> possibly..
[04:53:53] <Connor> I have NO idea how the back those things..
[04:54:00] <Connor> what a PAIN.
[04:54:20] <jdhNC> from the front (removing the white cover)
[04:54:32] <jdhNC> there is a youtube video
[04:54:39] <Connor> is there?
[04:55:09] <jdhNC> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEAQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DGXdt5M8ZeoE&ei=m1bET82UD6eK6QGZv5TcCg&usg=AFQjCNFHGwGV5LDYC6cKBKHOaDKq9lKEIw
[04:55:27] <Connor> he's repacking...
[04:55:55] <jdhNC> I thought that's what you meant.
[04:56:11] <Connor> No. I was talking about making a insert..
[04:56:29] <Connor> and unthreading the ballnut onto the insert.
[04:56:39] <Connor> removing the white whipers just helps.
[04:56:47] <jdhNC> oh, I read that they pack them on the screw, by hand.
[04:56:59] <Connor> They may. I had too.
[04:57:12] <Connor> but, I also transfered one from one screw to another, or to a transfer tube.
[04:57:23] <jdhNC> worked ok?
[04:57:30] <Connor> yea.
[04:57:35] <Connor> most of the time. :)
[04:57:35] <jdhNC> transfer tube the minor diameter of the screw?
[04:57:50] <Connor> yea.
[05:00:58] <Connor> okay, back in a bit, time to finish up this cover.
[05:02:29] <jdhNC> I have to get up for work in 5 hours.
[05:03:31] <WalterN> hmm
[05:03:44] <jdhNC> My Y ball nut is on backwards anyway.
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[05:03:51] <WalterN> any good way to get an SVG image to a DXF?
[05:05:24] <WalterN> I want to engrave this SNG image, but need it as line art... I dont know of a good way to do that
[05:05:35] <WalterN> SNG/SVG
[05:06:22] <jdhNC> image2gcode?
[05:06:44] <WalterN> the software does not use Gcode :-/
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[05:06:54] <jdhNC> oh, what is it?
[05:07:07] <WalterN> for the engraving machine... its a plugin thing for corell draw
[05:07:39] <WalterN> its also not my machine... otherwise I'd... uh.. not own it
[05:07:41] <WalterN> lol
[05:11:20] <WalterN> its really lame... it shoves the SVG image all on one layer... no way to have it do layers like proper SVG images support...
[05:12:40] <WalterN> best thing I'm seeing is convert to some high resolution PNG image, turn that PNG image black and white and use some program to convert that into DXF
[05:13:47] <WalterN> I'm kinda raging about this... I can even import an SVG into solidworks
[05:15:45] <WalterN> looks like I cant do it in autocad either
[05:16:05] <WalterN> fffffff
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[05:21:19] <WalterN> http://autotrace.sourceforge.net/
[05:21:25] <WalterN> but thats old...
[05:25:06] <WalterN> hmm, whats this? http://potrace.sourceforge.net/
[05:27:24] <WalterN> that might work
[05:27:25] <WalterN> brb
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[05:31:55] <psha[work]> WalterN: potrace may be found in inkscale
[05:31:58] <psha[work]> inkscape
[05:32:06] <WalterN> enh?
[05:32:14] <psha[work]> if you wanna take a look
[05:32:17] <WalterN> potrace is built into inkscape?
[05:33:40] <psha[work]> no, it's used in inkscape
[05:34:40] <WalterN> ...?
[05:35:56] <psha[work]> it's used to vectorize raster images
[05:44:16] <WalterN> hmm
[05:44:18] <WalterN> how?
[05:44:33] <jymmm> traces them
[05:45:06] <WalterN> well yeah, but how? never really used inkscape before
[05:45:32] <psha[work]> install inkscape, open raster image (png)
[05:45:37] <psha[work]> select 'raster -> vectorize'
[05:48:20] <Connor> jdhNC: You still up?
[05:48:25] <Connor> Stepper cover finished.
[05:52:38] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/1120417-post131.html
[05:52:48] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=160668&amp;d=1338270657
[05:52:56] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=160669&amp;d=1338270663
[05:53:08] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=160670&amp;d=1338270672
[05:53:21] <WalterN> psha[work]: I dont see that...
[05:53:52] <psha[work]> probably contour
[05:53:55] <psha[work]> not raster
[05:54:31] <psha[work]> ah, in english locale that's 'Path -> Trace Bitmap'
[05:55:27] <Connor> So what do you all think of my little stepper motor cover ?
[06:00:52] <WalterN> shiny
[06:01:26] <WalterN> psha[work]: this looks like it will work now... thanks \o/
[06:02:21] <WalterN> psha[work]: its also kinda an bassackwards way to do it... SVG -> PNG -> another vector
[06:03:08] <psha[work]> WalterN: take a look at gcodetools
[06:03:10] <psha[work]> for inkscape
[06:03:20] <WalterN> enh?
[06:03:23] <psha[work]> not perfect but why not
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[06:04:29] <psha[work]> http://www.cnc-club.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=35
[06:05:32] <WalterN> ooo
[06:05:38] <WalterN> thats really cool
[06:06:00] <WalterN> though, this program/machine does not use Gcode
[06:06:32] <WalterN> I'll worry about that when I make my own kick butt CNC engraving machine that isnt stupid
[06:07:14] <WalterN> ...eventually
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[06:07:27] <jymmm> Start with NOT using SVG
[06:08:03] <psha[work]> jymmm: bebebe
[06:08:05] <WalterN> start with using a PNG?
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[06:08:30] <WalterN> I didnt make the SVG, which is the point... didnt want to do extra drawing stuffs when it could be found online :3
[06:09:08] <jymmm> Use a REAL CAD format, not some buggy spec'ed for the last 5 years not intended for absolutely values and has FP issues
[06:09:17] <jymmm> -y
[06:09:22] <jymmm> -ly
[06:09:58] <WalterN> if I drew the thing, yeah...
[06:10:19] <psha[work]> jymmm: mmm, dxf?
[06:10:49] <jymmm> psha[work]: Hell, even PostScript if you had to.
[06:11:05] <jymmm> at least it deals with absolute values
[06:11:31] <jymmm> Just any vector format other than SVG
[06:12:02] <jymmm> Though AI has issues with which version opens the file, so that's a pita
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[06:13:10] <psha[work]> jymmm: what's that 'any' other format that's widely supported?
[06:13:23] <jymmm> dxf
[06:13:51] <psha[work]> orly?
[06:14:03] <psha[work]> any tool to convert from dxf to image?
[06:14:11] <jymmm> image?
[06:14:22] <psha[work]> image
[06:14:24] <psha[work]> just image
[06:14:34] <jymmm> wtf is 'image' format?
[06:14:47] <psha[work]> anything that you may look in your browser/any other image viewer
[06:15:01] <jymmm> a raster format?
[06:15:50] <psha[work]> heh, if i say 'vector' you'll kill me :)
[06:16:07] <WalterN> then I'll say it.
[06:16:17] <psha[work]> since only vector format that may be viewed by something other then cad software is svg
[06:16:26] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+o jymmm] by ChanServ
[06:16:33] <psha[work]> whaa
[06:16:38] * psha[work] hides under the table
[06:17:05] * jymmm sets mode: +dumbass WalterN
[06:17:10] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [-o jymmm] by ChanServ
[06:17:15] <WalterN> heh
[06:17:31] <WalterN> SVG is much nicer than any bitmap though
[06:17:41] <jymmm> not the same thing
[06:18:05] <jymmm> svg, ai, cdr, dxf, PS, HPGL are all vector
[06:18:28] <jymmm> png, gif, jpg, bmp, are raster
[06:18:54] <WalterN> I thought cdr was the OSX naming of an ISO disk image
[06:19:14] <jymmm> WAY before that it was and has been CorelDraw file format.
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[06:27:49] <psha[work]> jymmm: only svg and ps may be used without tons of additional software
[06:28:05] <psha[work]> and truly speaking svg is _much_ simple to process with external tools
[06:28:27] <psha[work]> format is not perfect
[06:32:39] <jymmm> Inkscape can open/save to DXF format
[06:32:42] <jymmm> AMong others
[06:34:32] <alex4nder-> hey
[06:37:35] <psha[work]> jymmm: not working
[06:37:40] <psha[work]> very buggy
[06:38:12] <jymmm> Then find/get/buy a cad program.
[06:39:02] <psha[work]> svg covers most of my needs
[06:39:11] <psha[work]> what for i need to find/get/buy cad program?
[06:40:27] <psha[work]> if svg don't fits for your needs that's a pity
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[06:52:37] <Loetmichel> moin
[06:52:47] <Loetmichel> s/moin/mornin
[06:58:55] <WalterN> yeah
[06:59:16] <WalterN> the SVG -> DXF thing in inkscape is rather borked
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[07:18:24] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:42:55] <_abc_> Has anyone here got frustrated with home switches and implemented a single home 'switch' push button?
[08:42:59] <_abc_> I'm about to do that
[08:43:30] <_abc_> It takes ages for the machine to zero and it refuses to do anything until zeroed which is useless because after that I need to zero it on the material start point again
[08:43:37] <_abc_> How do you deal with this?
[08:58:47] <Loetmichel> making the homing a g0
[08:58:49] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[08:59:05] <Loetmichel> and enough "overrun" to break
[08:59:17] <Loetmichel> s/nbreak/brake
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[11:07:08] <jthornton> wow abc didn't stay long... must be a frustrated person
[11:09:40] <archivist> he is not in ##electronics at the moment so probably doing the day job
[11:10:52] <jthornton> ah
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[11:11:46] <archivist> he is bright enough to deal with anything I think
[11:13:21] <jthornton> he doesn't seem to have a grasp of what homing does
[11:15:05] <archivist> probably pre conceived ideas :)
[11:15:54] <archivist> needs leading to why you need to home doc
[11:16:14] <jthornton> :)
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[11:21:48] <mrsun> http://imagebin.org/214303 <-- my first job to order :P some new clutch friction thingies for a machine .. the original is the one in the middle, the other two (theres one more thats not on the picture) ive made in the mill =)
[11:21:51] <mrsun> yeey me :P
[11:24:55] <archivist> looks like a nice copy...without the wear :)
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[11:29:38] <mrsun> archivist, i just hope it wasnt to worn down as that was the only thing i got to go after ... so added a tenth here and there :P
[11:29:42] <mrsun> 0.1mm that is :P
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[11:31:22] <archivist> mostly when I have been making replacement parts there has been some area unworn that can be used for dimensions
[11:32:33] <jthornton> many times I round up the measurements in worn areas assuming the design used some kind of even numbers
[11:32:54] <archivist> I see wear on the tab driving side which you have added, are you going to take out the wear in the spines of the bore they fit it
[11:33:51] <archivist> and the wear in the splines could be the real problem as that will stop disengagement
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[11:48:02] <mrsun> jthornton, if i would round up the thingies it would be bigger ... but theres only 1 area that actualy has some mechanical wear (more then the preasure point for the steel parts in the clutch) so i went for the highest points and got something like 19.95mm so i went for 20, and then the mill was aparently 0.03 undersized so it became soemthing like 20.05 - 20.07 on the wear points .. but hell they can file that off if
[11:48:02] <mrsun> it doesnt fit good :P
[11:48:44] <mrsun> archivist, the preasure plate part was worn down 3mm in the original part ... my guess is that that was the problem for them :P
[11:54:16] <jthornton> by even I don't mean an integer even all the time just depends on the part
[11:55:03] <mrsun> ahh true =)
[11:57:34] <mrsun> archivist, what do you mean with take out the wear in the spines of the bore? :)
[12:06:40] <joe9> need some advice, I have a pcb that I want to engrave. but, instead of doing it on actual pcb's, I want to do some test runs on a different cheaper material (wood). I read somewhere that using the same tip on wood and pcb is not a good idea.
[12:07:08] <joe9> wondering if anyone has used any other material for such test runs?
[12:07:16] <joe9> something that does not harm the machine or the tip.
[12:07:59] <joe9> probably some paper derivative (cardboard) or something like that.
[12:15:31] <jdhNC> engraving plastic perhaps.
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[12:23:48] <jthornton> wax
[12:24:01] <jthornton> machinable that is
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[12:24:38] <mrsun> all wax is machineable, they just leave different kinds of messes ;P
[12:24:47] <jthornton> LOL
[12:25:02] <jthornton> yea machine paste wax...
[12:25:06] <mrsun> hehe :P
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[12:25:23] <mrsun> making machineable wax is a fun project also =)
[12:29:29] <jdhNC> wax and plastic bags?
[12:34:18] <mrsun> yeah
[12:34:20] <mrsun> LDPE
[12:34:27] <mrsun> parafin
[12:34:27] <joe9> what is LDPE?
[12:34:41] <mrsun> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-density_polyethylene
[12:36:00] <Valen> I want to try me some of that woods metal
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[12:38:10] <mrsun> One alloy is called Cerrosafe. It is mainly used by gunsmiths for making a reference casting of the chamber of a firearm. When it solidifies it first shrinks, allowing easy removal from the chamber. When it cools it expands back to the exact size of the chamber. The casting can then be directly measured with calipers or a micrometer to determine the dimension of the weapon's chamber, which is important for safety.
[12:38:10] <mrsun> [edit]
[12:38:14] <mrsun> omg =)
[12:38:16] <mrsun> magic alloy
[12:38:19] <joe9> jthornton: the machineable wax is pretty expensive on mcmastercarr.
[12:38:37] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#9389K43
[12:38:50] <mrsun> ive made some machineable wax, its not hard att all but dont do it inside the house =)
[12:38:50] <Valen> thats pretty neat
[12:38:52] <joe9> i need a 4inch x 6inch.
[12:38:59] <Valen> probably eleventy million dollars a gram though
[12:39:18] <mrsun> just melt parafin wax, add LDPE until it wont disolve anymore (it disolves very very slowly) then just screen it and out a nice wax comes =)
[12:39:42] <mrsun> and the wax can be remelted and cast into new blocks to have and do test cuts etc with =)
[12:41:20] <joe9> ldpe is pretty cheap though.
[12:42:09] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#8588K163
[12:44:39] <archivist> mrsun, where the spline drives the tab there may be a wear dent, this tends to push/pull the tab into/out of engagement
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[12:53:15] <joe9> http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/mwax/15-HeathRobinson2.jpg seems to be a cool way to prevent stuff all over the place.
[12:53:29] <joe9> http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2729.0 from here.
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[13:01:38] <joe9> ssi_: do you know of any places in atl that carry machinable wax? (other than mc, they seem expensive).
[13:02:35] <jthornton> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Machine%20Shop/HPIM0599.jpg
[13:04:05] <joe9> jthornton: cool.
[13:04:27] <joe9> i will probably do something like that with a cardboard box to start off with.
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[13:16:13] <jthornton> it got in the way more than anything really
[13:16:18] <jthornton> I don't use it any more
[13:16:50] <jthornton> mighty clean in that photo :)
[13:19:29] <joe9> jthornton: do you know if I can buy machinable wax from some other place other than mcmaster locally? do homedepot or hobby stores carry it?
[13:20:22] <archivist> would economy candles be suitable if melted into a block
[13:21:27] <joe9> i can probably buy wax blocks at some local craft store, I suppose.. not sure if that will work instead of machinable wax, though.
[13:22:08] <jdhNC> plastic would probably be more representative and easier to see.
[13:22:17] <jdhNC> and cheaper
[13:22:27] <joe9> ldpe is definitely cheaper on mcmaster
[13:23:00] <joe9> not sure if that is a good enough material to use though.
[13:23:59] <archivist> google finds some home brew waxes
[13:24:03] <jdhNC> how big are your boards going to be?
[13:24:10] <joe9> 4inch x 6inch
[13:24:41] <joe9> archivist: yes, I saw the recipes. I do not want to do that home-burning stuff.
[13:24:53] <joe9> i believe it can cause an explosion if you are not careful.
[13:25:07] <jdhNC> 85915T341
[13:26:37] <joe9> jdhNC: that looks pretty useful. thanks for that. let me check it out more.
[13:26:56] <jdhNC> 85915T217 would make 12 4x6 ones for about $1/each
[13:27:26] <joe9> jdhNC: have you used these?
[13:27:35] <jdhNC> for making name plates
[13:27:53] <joe9> oh, ok. was it hard on the cutter/end mill?
[13:28:04] <jdhNC> it is pretty soft
[13:29:02] <jdhNC> go peel one off some HR persons door and practice on it.
[13:30:12] <joe9> it is pretty cheap too. worth a shot. would you recommend it over a 8588K163
[13:31:32] <jdhNC> get some of each
[13:31:56] <joe9> good idea. will do that.
[13:32:13] <jdhNC> I don't think the shallow cuts will be as visible in the LDPE. Never tried it though.
[13:32:26] <joe9> good point. thanks.
[13:33:12] <jdhNC> get an ink roller, cut it, ink it up, press it on to paper. Might be amusing anyway.
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[13:34:14] <joe9> jdhNC: which one, with the ldpe or the engraving plate?
[13:34:19] <jdhNC> yes.
[13:35:31] <jdhNC> you could spray paint the ldpe first. Might help the contrast.
[13:35:46] <ctjctj> In the release notes for 2.5 it says that there is a precise release for RT and SIM. I can not locate a 2.5 precise ISO nor does the buildbot have a precise RT. help?
[13:35:53] <joe9> good idea. I have the black spray paint too
[13:38:29] <ctjctj> joe9: I came in late but for engraving/sign making what is normally done is that you paint the piece first. Put regular contact paper (cabinet shelf sticky paper.) carve/engrave. Spray paint again with contrasting color. Remove the contact paper. Works good. If you want to do multiple versions of this you can buy a spray on vynal that does the same thing as the contact paper.
[13:38:39] <pcw_home> ctjctj There is no Precise RT for the time being only sim (until the RTAI guys get busy and support 3.2 kernels)
[13:39:27] <ctjctj> pcw_home: I miss read it. My error. Sorry.
[13:39:39] <joe9> ctjctj: i have a circuit that I want engraved on a pcb. For the first few runs, I want to test it on some material that is scrapable and that does not harm the endmill or cutter.
[13:39:55] <joe9> ctjctj: it appears that machinable wax is the best to use
[13:40:07] <ctjctj> joe9: Yes. great stuff.
[13:40:18] <ctjctj> Sorry. Like I said, came in late and guessed.
[13:40:26] <joe9> for such purpose. But, I could not find a "machinable wax" store around (mcmaster is expensive for that).
[13:40:59] <ctjctj> how big of a piece of wax are you looking for?
[13:41:04] <joe9> ctjctj: i am checking for alternatives for that and jdhnc recommended the engravable stuff, which seems suitable too.
[13:41:11] <joe9> 4inch x 6 inch
[13:41:36] <ctjctj> http://www.grizzly.com/products/Machinable-Wax-Block-2-X-6-X-6-/H9042 a little thick.
[13:42:42] <joe9> ctjctj: yes, that. but, I was looking for something locally (ATL) to be able to use it today.
[13:43:07] <ctjctj> joe9: Ah. Grizzy is cheap and good. Not fast on deliveries.
[13:43:26] <joe9> 9389K44 in mcmaster is around the same price too.
[13:43:42] <joe9> whereas the ldpe and the engraving stuff is around a few bucks.
[13:44:11] <ctjctj> Go to the grocery store and pick up a plastic cutting board?
[13:44:36] <joe9> oh, really..
[13:45:35] <ctjctj> Some of them are very smooth. Others you have to run a fly cutter over. But walmart has them. low cost. (not cheap) and you can have it in 15 minutes.
[13:45:39] <joe9> ctjctj: is it as easy as these materials on the end mill? the cutting boards seem harder.
[13:46:32] <ctjctj> Most of the cutting boards are HDPE (if I remember correctly). I would have no problem with my piece of junk JGRO cutting with a 1/16 end mill in the stuff.
[13:47:13] <ctjctj> It is a little harder than wax, much easier than pine.
[13:47:34] <joe9> what is "JGRO"?
[13:48:18] <ctjctj> Or if you want just pick up a piece of 1/2 MDF. paint, cut to size. JGRO is a type of CNC router plan. Made from 3/4 MDF, black pipe, Al angle and roller skate bearings.
[13:48:35] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[13:49:06] <ctjctj> MDF is easier on the endmills than the paint you would put on it. *GRIN*
[13:49:28] <ctjctj> Make sure you have dust control if you use MDF.
[13:50:04] <Valen> we use mdg alot
[13:50:09] <Valen> mdf allot
[13:50:48] <ctjctj> Beautiful for carving and lots of other stuff. Stable. Just produces a fine dust that goes *EVERYWHERE*
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[13:51:10] <joe9> what do you think of mcmaster.com/#86925K41
[13:51:20] <joe9> "Sheet Lining Wax"
[13:53:39] <ctjctj> I'm confused. You are going to pay $15 for 1/32 thick lining wax that then has to be attached to a flat surface for you to do your testing milling?
[13:54:43] <ctjctj> If you are ordering from McMaster just get the machining wax. You can take a block of it, melt it and let it harden to reuse. However think you need it to be...
[13:55:10] <joe9> ok, thanks.
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[14:02:40] <ScribbleJ> When I'm out at the hardware store this afternoon what sort of lube do I want to get for my bearings/linear rail/ballscrews?
[14:03:15] <joe9> i use the red lithium grease -- not sure what others think about it.
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[14:08:31] <jthornton> any good quality EP grease would be fine IMHO
[14:08:54] <jymmm> ep?
[14:09:00] <ScribbleJ> OK, thanks.
[14:09:04] <jymmm> extra pregnant?
[14:10:10] <ScribbleJ> I'm still having software toolchain issues here, too... pycam takes LITERALLY days to generate simple gcode and heekscnc crashes left and right on my desktop, the latest version from git.
[14:10:21] <ScribbleJ> I might go back and try an older heeks. Or something.
[14:11:17] <ctjctj> ScribbleJ: heekscad has issues. One of the things that helps is to make sure all the curves are correctly ordered. And don't trust heekscad to do that on its own.
[14:11:33] <ScribbleJ> So... run it through netfabb or something?
[14:11:59] <ctjctj> I do it by hand. *grin*. But then my curves are generally pretty clean with only a few dozen segments.
[14:12:08] <ScribbleJ> Naw
[14:12:14] <ctjctj> I don't know netfabb.
[14:12:23] <ScribbleJ> If I have a model simple enough to do by hand, then I don't need a gcode generator, I could do that by hand too I bet.
[14:12:37] <ScribbleJ> I'm talking about generating gcode for complex surfaces.
[14:12:53] <ctjctj> 3D?
[14:13:03] <jymmm> 2.5d?
[14:13:50] <ScribbleJ> I'm not sure exactly what would be 2.5D
[14:14:24] <jymmm> Like a beveled, but not curved shoulder of raised lettering
[14:15:10] <joe9> how about freecad -> heekscnc?
[14:15:16] <joe9> i had better luck with it.
[14:15:29] <ScribbleJ> joe9, I'm fine on the CAD angle. I tend to use OpenSCAD (I hate it with a passion, though!)
[14:15:36] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: http://www.welsoft.co.uk/machmill/hs20.htm
[14:15:40] <ScribbleJ> Or inkscape/librecad for 2d
[14:16:49] <joe9> ScribbleJ: i tried openscad, but, prefer freecad (python is easy to program, imho).
[14:16:52] <ctjctj> The problem comes down to a weakness in DXF files. There isn't a "closed curve" entity. Which means that you get a jumble of segments. When drawn on the screen this is not big deal. It all comes out in the z-buffers. But when you machine them the segments have to be in the right order.
[14:17:09] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: I thought you had a copy of ArtCAM?
[14:17:29] <ctjctj> So anything that generates a DXF file is likely to have problems when imported into heekscad. :-(
[14:17:45] <ScribbleJ> jymmm, yea, a pirated copy came with the machine - but I do not hve a Windows box on which to run it. I may bother to set something up later to try it if I continue to be frustrated by open source solutions.
[14:18:17] <Loetmichel> hmmm, bocnc can join the ends
[14:18:39] <Loetmichel> even has a parameter for how near the ends must be to be a closed curve
[14:18:41] <ctjctj> ScribbleJ: I'm slowly working on a CAM solution in Java. Can you tell me what you are trying to do so I make sure my code handles it?
[14:20:57] <joe9> ctjctj: is it hard work to build a cam solution?
[14:21:05] <ctjctj> hell yes.
[14:21:14] <joe9> are you reading .step files or is it a cad+cam?
[14:21:43] <ctjctj> Not doing the cad part. There are too many people that offer good (or ok) solutions to that. CAM is what is missing.
[14:22:36] <ctjctj> Stupid things like heekscad likes to lift the tool to "safe height" when doing pockets. It doesn't need to do that. It needs to know how high to lift the bit to do a safe rapid to the start point.
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[14:23:04] <joe9> ctjctj: is your tool opensource?
[14:23:29] <ctjctj> Or the fact that there is no good algorithm for doing offsets... So you end up creating segments that can be offset but you have to make sure you don't run the tool into the other side. (cross path detection)
[14:24:04] <ctjctj> It is going to have a $25 starting price. Every month if goes up by $5 till it reaches $125. Any bug found drops it back to $25.
[14:24:12] <ctjctj> One release back will be OS.
[14:24:34] <ctjctj> (got to pay for my hobbies some how)
[14:25:18] <ctjctj> Unfortunately my biggest issue is in the UI because you need pretty pictures for people to understand different settings.
[14:25:24] <ScribbleJ> ctjctj, all i'm trying to go is get a working toolchain I can rely on. I've been using a test object that's a bunch of hemispheres and a couple extruded words.
[14:25:47] <joe9> is there a non-ui cam/cnc solution?
[14:25:54] <joe9> i meant non-gui
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[14:26:17] <joe9> something that can take stuff from the command line and dump output files.
[14:26:18] <ctjctj> Oh, it comes with a nesting algorithm. So you can input a series of DXF, .step files and it will fit them onto a sheet.
[14:26:45] <ScribbleJ> That's all pretty basic stuff there, ctjctj.
[14:27:10] <ctjctj> joe9: That doesn't work real well, unfortunately. Most of the input files need some tweeking.
[14:27:17] <ScribbleJ> I mean, I'm coming from the 3D printing world and we have several open source options that do all the things, plating multiple files and such.
[14:27:19] <ctjctj> ScribbleJ: Yep. Just small amounts of programming.
[14:28:03] <ctjctj> But as you can see there doesn't seem to be a solution. So I work on my own toy and get as much input as to what is needed.
[14:29:21] <jymmm> http://www.gsimple.eu/index.html
[14:29:35] <ScribbleJ> I think that's great, ctjctj. Sorry you won't be sharing the source. :)
[14:29:57] <ScribbleJ> If push comes to shove, I'll write my own gcode generators as well... just expected I wouldn't need to. :)
[14:29:58] <ctjctj> ScribbleJ: I will, just one version back. I need to give back to the community. *grin*
[14:30:40] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: http://www.craftsmanspace.com/free-software/free-cam-software.html
[14:30:42] <ctjctj> And of course it will run on linux.
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[14:46:28] <jymmm> Interesting.... Tire Logs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJnB1498qCQ&NR=1&feature=endscreen
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[15:24:48] <syyl_> we had a house built of tires in the army
[15:24:57] <syyl_> for grenade training ;)
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[15:41:50] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/7289815962/in/photostream Sooooooooo who wants to guess which of these pins contols my spindle?
[15:42:59] <syyl_> i love the two in the middle :D
[15:43:11] syyl_ is now known as syyl
[15:43:59] <ScribbleJ> Yea... :/
[15:43:59] <ScribbleJ> Hah
[15:45:09] <jdhNC> http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=vfd%20k1a%20k1b%20x0%20x1%20x2&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CGgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fxz.szeti.com%2FCD2000%2520%2520Specification.PDF&ei=ke7ET62wOuOK6QGfsbihCg&usg=AFQjCNH0qkKvVavoJNha3ATLJs52VyTw4Q&cad=rja
[15:45:14] <jdhNC> that was ugly
[15:45:32] <jdhNC> xz.szeti.com/CD2000%20%20Specification.PDF see if anything useful is in there?
[15:45:45] <ScribbleJ> Veeeeery slow to download.
[15:45:45] <Connor> waiting for it to load.
[15:45:50] <ScribbleJ> I guess I'll let you know in 15 minutes.
[15:46:10] <jdhNC> almost 10meg
[15:47:31] <jdhNC> what are the chances it wants a PWM input?
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[15:48:38] <jdhNC> it has tb6560 drivers?
[15:49:21] <ScribbleJ> I'm pretty certain it wants PWM
[15:49:25] <ScribbleJ> I just don't know where to put the PWM
[15:49:26] <ScribbleJ> heh
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[15:49:48] <jdhNC> nothing hooked up on the pins specified in the docs?
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[15:56:07] <Connor> K1B and K1A are relay outputs.
[15:57:36] <Connor> The one you linked to jdhNC is analog based using standard 0-10V input method.
[15:59:52] <ScribbleJ> Hrmmmmm
[16:00:02] <ScribbleJ> Interesting docs, but I'm not sure how much I can take from them.
[16:00:13] <ScribbleJ> I have sent an email to China, maybe they will havean answer.
[16:00:20] <ScribbleJ> I can control the spindle manually in the meantime, that works.
[16:00:27] <ScribbleJ> From the control box itself I mean.
[16:00:32] <syyl> "hello china?"
[16:00:37] <Connor> You MAY need a C41 control board.
[16:00:44] <Connor> if it doesn't have PWM input
[16:01:42] <ScribbleJ> syyl, yeah, I just address it to EVERYONE@CHINA.COM (yes, .com, you know)
[16:01:56] <syyl> :D
[16:02:08] <syyl> maye someone answers Oo
[16:02:38] <jthornton> I use *.gmail.com when I want reach millions of Chinese spammers
[16:02:39] <ScribbleJ> Oh
[16:02:46] <ScribbleJ> There IS one connection shown in the docs they sent me
[16:03:57] <ScribbleJ> It looks like it goes into X0, the problem is the board it comes from, the mainboard, doesn't look like the one I have I think. Brilliant.
[16:07:27] <jdhNC> that's just a random doc I googled up
[16:08:07] <Connor> Well, it explained what the K1A and K1B were.
[16:08:36] <Connor> You sure they're isn't any other connectors anywhere on you setup?
[16:08:54] <Connor> So, WHY is VFD all the rage ?
[16:09:09] <jdhNC> vfds r0ck.
[16:09:33] <jdhNC> we have hundreds of them here.
[16:10:01] <Connor> okay, But, WHY are they better than single phase AC or DC using PWM or Phase Chopping ?
[16:11:33] <jdhNC> we use a lot for constant torque in vector mode
[16:12:14] <Connor> < Knows nothing about VFD's.. so vector mode means didly..
[16:13:46] <jdhNC> afaik, they generally do PWM
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[16:18:52] <Tom_L> JT-Shop or anyone for that matter, would it make that much difference using a shielded wire on the stepper wires or just regular hookup wire?
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[16:19:52] <jthornton> the ones on my AutomationDirect steppers are not shielded
[16:20:18] <jdhNC> stepper shouldn't care, other things around might.
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[16:21:15] <Tom_itx> ok, i'll try other stuff first then and use that as a last resort
[16:21:49] <jdhNC> stepper problems, or noise problems?
[16:21:54] <Tom_itx> noise
[16:21:55] <Tom_itx> i think
[16:21:59] <Tom_itx> or grounding issues
[16:22:12] <Tom_itx> on the limit switches going to the fpga pins direct
[16:22:26] <Tom_itx> may also add pullups
[16:22:45] <Tom_itx> internal ones are usually weak
[16:22:46] <jdhNC> don't they have built-in pullups?
[16:22:52] <Tom_itx> dunno about the fpga ones
[16:22:57] <Tom_itx> yes they do
[16:23:25] <Tom_itx> gonna swap out the switch wires for shielded wire as well
[16:23:44] <jdhNC> I got a 7i37ta for them. 7i42T might be ok, but I guess if you don't fry the fpga it wasn't needed.
[16:23:59] <Tom_itx> what's the 37?
[16:24:05] <Tom_itx> buffer board?
[16:24:10] <jdhNC> did you disconnect the DC from the drives and see if it still happens?
[16:24:21] <Tom_itx> it works fine with the main psu off
[16:24:36] <Tom_itx> it's either noise or a grounding issue i bet
[16:25:04] <jthornton> is the 0v on your power supply grounded?
[16:25:21] <Tom_itx> not to the switches
[16:25:25] <ScribbleJ> http://www.usinages.com/ressources/file/88405 This is my motherboard! YAY
[16:25:28] <Tom_itx> i plan to rectify that
[16:26:28] <jdhNC> surely your PSU is already rectified.
[16:26:40] <jdhNC> <- funny!
[16:26:46] <Tom_itx> i may need to power the mesa card from the main psu thru a smps
[16:26:54] <Tom_itx> which was part of the plan but not done yet
[16:27:01] <Tom_itx> currently it's usb powered
[16:27:27] <jdhNC> I powered my 7i43/7i47/7i37ta with a separate power supply
[16:27:33] * Tom_itx hands jdhNC the hot end of a psu cap
[16:27:41] <Tom_itx> what did you use?
[16:28:02] <Tom_itx> and did you tie the grounds together to the stepper supply?
[16:28:12] <jdhNC> lambda +5/+12 open frame power supply
[16:28:29] <jdhNC> all share frame ground
[16:28:56] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/5v_switcher.jpg
[16:29:03] <Tom_itx> i plan on using one of those
[16:29:16] <jdhNC> heh.. oddly enough. I mounted the mesa cards and my c41 with 4-40's because the mesa boards have absurdly small holes
[16:29:19] <Tom_itx> tied to the centertap of one of my transformers for about 24v in
[16:29:54] <Tom_itx> i've used those for several projects
[16:29:58] <jdhNC> the C41 has bigger holes, so I had some fiber washers to keep the bolt head out... dropped them when installing and stuck a little SS washer on.
[16:30:28] <jdhNC> the SS washer hit a resistor lead and dragged 5V down.
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[16:33:22] <Tom_itx> i just wondered about the shielding on the stepper wires because the original ones were but the wire is too small to use on this setup
[16:34:02] <Tom_itx> the steppers are working fine though
[16:34:42] <Loetmichel> ScribbleJ: than look out that it doesent look like this: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12554
[16:34:50] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[16:34:53] <jdhNC> got a plain 24v SMPS you could swap in?
[16:35:11] <jdhNC> looks like the normal cheap chinese tb6560 board
[16:35:21] <Tom_itx> jdhNC what for?
[16:36:09] <jdhNC> to eliminate your PS as the problem.
[16:36:27] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: jeah, jurst with the magic smoke out ;)
[16:36:28] <Tom_itx> it all works fine with my old psu and drivers
[16:36:30] <Loetmichel> just
[16:37:28] <Tom_itx> i'll sort it out, just need to find the time to do it
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[16:39:05] <ScribbleJ> Loetmichel, I've blown up some fets before... good times. :)
[16:39:32] <jdhNC> where did the 'scribble' come from?
[16:40:05] <ScribbleJ> Nowhere, really. I picked it pretty randomly a long time ago, and when I started finding other people online named Scribble I added the J to make it more distinct.
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[16:40:09] * Loetmichel had a PSU which was a little weak.. so i thougt my 24V 7Ah lead batterys would support there a little...
[16:40:34] <Loetmichel> ... would have if i hadnt switched red and black... :-(
[16:40:44] <Connor> oops.
[16:40:54] <Tom_itx> seems to have had plenty of supply current
[16:40:55] <ScribbleJ> All right, I've solved half the mystery with that document for the mainboard. There's DEFINTIELY at least one wire missing between it and the VFD
[16:40:59] <jdhNC> not a vurt reference then?
[16:41:11] <ScribbleJ> jdhNC, nope, but I've been asked that before. I don't think I've ever read it.
[16:41:15] <Loetmichel> toastydeath: just in the wrong direction
[16:41:23] <Tom_itx> maybe a darwin award nominee?
[16:41:29] <Connor> The Chinese board I have for my router worked okay.. I did make few mods.. mostly to get rid of the high pitched squeal.
[16:41:43] <Loetmichel> the short circuit current of these lead packs is around 100A ;-)
[16:42:10] <Loetmichel> oh, sorry toastydeath, Tom_itx was meant
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[16:56:00] <Connor> okay, so, how many uses tabs when doing a profile cut around a part ?
[16:56:24] <Tom_itx> depends on the part
[16:56:32] <Tom_itx> we used them alot on some parts
[16:57:10] <jdhNC> I've tried them on my router. They are nice for holding material in place, but they always ended up being the ugliest part of the profile
[16:57:14] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=160670&amp;d=1338270672
[16:57:51] <Connor> I used them on that... you can see the remains of one slightly in the middle of the stepper motor shape.
[16:58:24] <Connor> I've not sanded this yet.. but.. I hate those things..
[16:58:35] <jdhNC> that was my experience also.
[16:58:46] <Connor> Maybe more of them and thinner ?
[16:59:04] <Connor> kinda like lashing you find on model hobby parts ?
[16:59:15] <jdhNC> you could probably do .010
[16:59:50] <Connor> I only did 4 on this one. and had my drill / profile out of order.. the drill procedure was done last, but, should have been done before the profile.
[17:00:07] <Connor> To be honest. I think I may make the drilling profile 1st.
[17:00:13] <jdhNC> is the left/open part a single plan, or cut/glued/cut?
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[17:00:42] <Connor> single part. you can see the joints on the right.
[17:00:47] <Connor> 2 of them.
[17:02:04] <jdhNC> so the tabs were the only thing holding it in as you glued/cut/glued/cut the 2nd/3rd layer?
[17:02:18] <Connor> No. I did the profile last.
[17:02:34] <jdhNC> how long is your end mill?
[17:02:44] <Connor> 2 Step profile. Did the first taller section.. then did the first layer.
[17:03:08] <Connor> DOC .75" But, it's 1/4 all the way. It's a Bosch Router bit. :)
[17:03:40] <Connor> I use it for MDF allot.. and it has clearance to be able to do thicker stuff without issue.
[17:04:18] <Tom_itx> what did you draw that in?
[17:04:21] <Connor> First one I made I used my 1/4" that's on a 3/8" shank.. not enough clearance.. I manged to get the part made.. but, it ended up rubbing the top a little.
[17:04:28] <Connor> Inventor 2012.
[17:05:08] <Connor> exported to dxf, then into CamBam to cam it 2.5D.
[17:05:46] <Connor> 2 more to make.
[17:06:09] <Tom_itx> what does cambam export?
[17:06:09] <Connor> I'm thinking of using RTV to make a gasket for it.. probably don't want to paint the inner edge ?
[17:06:11] <Tom_itx> iges?
[17:06:11] <jdhNC> you could make 3 extras.
[17:06:14] <Tom_itx> dxf?
[17:06:17] <Connor> g-code.
[17:06:44] <Connor> and I cant export a dxf file of the CAMMED version..but, what's the point? No height info..
[17:07:57] <Connor> Okay, so, I find this REALLY freaking anoyinig.. how do you do a tool change, and touch off again for new tool height ?
[17:08:15] <andypugh> You aren't going to like the answer
[17:08:36] <Connor> stop the program. touch off.. and resume where you left off.. right ?
[17:08:47] <Connor> or break the program up into multiple files...
[17:08:58] <andypugh> 'Fraid so.
[17:09:25] <andypugh> It's on The List (as much as there is a list)
[17:09:32] <Connor> I think for the next two.. I'll use a drill bit in my chuck.. and pre-set the height.
[17:09:45] <jdhNC> why does no one seem to like the jog/spindle-during-manual-toolchange thing?
[17:09:56] <andypugh> It's possible (not even terribly difficult) to set up an automatic tool-length probe as part of toolchange.
[17:10:33] <andypugh> We all _like_ the idea, it's just that it is a huge effort because of the way EMC was written.
[17:10:40] <Connor> You think doing a small pocket on the inside edge (rounded) would be good idea for the RTV ?
[17:12:02] <Connor> I don't have a round nose end mill right now... and it would need to be small, like 3/32 or something.
[17:12:19] <Tom_itx> preset a spare tool then change the tool number
[17:12:29] <Tom_itx> would that work?
[17:12:34] <jdhNC> connor: http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=21&id=18843&limit=6#18853
[17:13:41] <Connor> Since i'm using collets with endmills with no holders.. no. I need to touch the tool off. I can do it with chuck and drill bit..
[17:14:15] <Connor> what sucks is having to hold the freaking vacuum hose over this thing for the whole operation...
[17:14:34] <Tom_itx> i've run multiple programs just because it's simpler on mine
[17:14:35] <Connor> that pvc clings to everything if you don't vacuum it up while milling it.
[17:14:47] <Tom_itx> but i've also run multiple tools
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[17:15:06] <Connor> Tom_itx: Explain what you mean with that ?
[17:15:13] <jdhNC> connor: that manualtoolchange replacement lets you jog/touch-off during tool changes.
[17:15:30] <Tom_itx> sometimes it's easier to break up a program by tools, just depending what you need done
[17:15:40] <Tom_itx> ie, i may not have a spare holder to use
[17:16:06] <Connor> Yea, I don't have any tool holders.. I want to get some TTS's.
[17:16:15] <Tom_itx> other times i can set them all and just go with it
[17:16:20] <Connor> as for this part.. all done with same endmill except for the holes.
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[17:25:34] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[17:25:49] <A0Sheds> besides http://www.cnczone.com/ , where can people who are new to building machines go to learn DIY?
[17:26:30] <IchGuckLive> A0Sheds: in the sim mode of linuxcnc
[17:26:39] <Connor> http://buildyourtools.com/phpBB3/
[17:26:51] <Connor> is a nice tiny forum with some useful info.
[17:27:02] <IchGuckLive> A0Sheds: simply start over and ask if you are stuck
[17:27:48] <A0Sheds> http://code.google.com/p/lemoncurry/wiki/main people are mostly getting into trouble with poor machine designs
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[17:28:16] <IchGuckLive> A0Sheds: do you got a router
[17:29:01] <IchGuckLive> my bad english have you got already a mashine
[17:29:06] <A0Sheds> IchGuckLive, I've been designing machines for 3 decades, what I'm looking for are website to help people learn how to design and build machines that work
[17:29:38] <andypugh> Using a projector is a fascinating idea...
[17:29:39] <Connor> A0Sheds: Start your own? :)
[17:29:42] <IchGuckLive> A0Sheds: thats the problem everyone thinks different of his needs
[17:30:06] <A0Sheds> i started the lemoncurry wiki to keep the info in the open...
[17:30:18] <IchGuckLive> if got 28now build mashines for education use only
[17:30:42] <A0Sheds> now it's mostly DIYers who don't have the skills yet to make a rigid stage
[17:30:45] <IchGuckLive> there are simple tiny ones that fit my needs
[17:31:13] <IchGuckLive> what is the requirerments for your need
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[17:31:41] <IchGuckLive> Dimantion milling material toolsize
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[17:32:13] <Connor> My biggest issue with my DIY CNC router was selecting the proper sized rails to go with the screws.. I went with 12mm instead of 16mm.. (both supported) ended up having to make some sims for my unit. the other issue was with the ballscrew mounting blocks. I needed shims between the bearings.
[17:32:16] <IchGuckLive> A0Sheds: next is then monye to be spend
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[17:33:00] <IchGuckLive> A0Sheds: witch country are you from
[17:33:16] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc13.JPG
[17:33:33] <Connor> I want redo the Z out of Alumn.
[17:33:56] <Connor> and replace the spoil board with T slot Extrusion.
[17:34:04] <archivist> Connor, after that you will want cast iron :)
[17:34:36] <Connor> No. This was designed for MDF, Plastic and alumn plate.. no steel or stainless.
[17:34:39] <Connor> :)
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[17:35:12] <archivist> well you do need some rigidity for aluminium work
[17:35:14] <Connor> Z still needs a home switch.
[17:35:26] <IchGuckLive> http://mechmo.de/lothar/cnc_4.JPG her is what i build for PCB only
[17:35:48] <Connor> archivist: Just cutting out 2D shapes.. no 3d work.. I'll do that on the mill.
[17:35:49] <IchGuckLive> front http://mechmo.de/lothar/cnc_3.JPG
[17:37:06] <IchGuckLive> oh we overfloated him with infos
[17:38:49] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: That has a certain srurdiness about it.
[17:38:58] <andypugh> (sturdniness, that is)
[17:40:05] <archivist> brick built sh house for pcb
[17:40:31] <Connor> http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3486 Opinions ?
[17:41:05] <Connor> Don't really need the chuck or the center drills, but, can't get it cheaper by parting it out.
[17:41:21] <Connor> and my boring bars I have are too large to use on the mini lathe..
[17:41:25] <archivist> qc tooling is useful
[17:42:11] <Connor> Going to use it on my mill too.
[17:42:17] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: its optimised on all parts to get a low price on high performance
[17:42:52] <Connor> I don't have any Indexed tooling.. so that's nice.. I just have a bunch of cheap crap
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[17:43:27] <archivist> you can do a lot with cheap crap just a bit slower
[17:43:34] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: 1mAlu 30x30mm 1,5m harden pins 1m of Trapez leadscrew
[17:44:04] <andypugh> Well, I think that those are aluminium tool holders, and the insert holders only actually have 2 useful orientations. So, I wouldn't.
[17:44:33] <andypugh> I see that set of 5 lathe tools a lot.
[17:44:47] <Connor> What's wrong with alumn tool holders ?
[17:45:00] <archivist> too soft
[17:45:09] <andypugh> The Modulus of Elasticuty of Aluminium is much lower than that of steel.
[17:45:15] <IchGuckLive> for beginning this tools are good to have
[17:45:50] <Connor> I'm not talking a huge lathe.. this is for mini lathe or my mill..
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[17:46:00] <archivist> price and weight may mean steel
[17:46:46] <Connor> https://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4116&category=-74669629
[17:47:18] <IchGuckLive> Connor B) O.o
[17:47:32] <Tom_itx> wow! even more money..
[17:47:37] <Connor> But, it's alot more.
[17:48:10] <Tom_itx> aren't the holders for a lathe?
[17:48:13] <archivist> cheap tool post is ally http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2482
[17:48:18] <archivist> yuk
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[17:48:44] <Tom_itx> cryptonite!
[17:49:37] <Tom_itx> archivist, it _is_ hard anodized :)
[17:49:47] <andypugh> https://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3048&category=-419988835
[17:50:04] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: if you got a Phaser O.O yes
[17:50:28] <archivist> Tom_itx, I used to work at an anodizing company ...it is only skin deep :)
[17:50:32] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: yesterday wars 40years startrek anuversity
[17:50:52] <_abc_> Guys, what do you do to make linuxcnc work immediately after turn on, without zeroing the axes? I am tempted to add an all zero switch
[17:51:12] <_abc_> I need to reset the axes 0's to the work anyway, the zero switches just consume time with transit
[17:51:15] <Tom_itx> _abc_ add a line to the config
[17:51:23] <_abc_> Tom_itx: is there a howto?
[17:51:32] <_abc_> I am new to linuxcnc (but not to linux and to cnc)
[17:51:36] <Tom_itx> hold on
[17:52:03] <andypugh> I gueess these are all to obig: http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Quick_Change_Toolposts__Complete_Sets_.html
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[17:52:25] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: NO_FORCE_HOMING = 1
[17:52:31] <atom1> NO_FORCE_HOMING = 1
[17:52:31] <_abc_> Also is there some tool changer kit, very lightweight and cheap for hobby mills?
[17:52:35] <_abc_> atom1: ah!
[17:52:37] <Tom_itx> that too
[17:52:44] <_abc_> thanks, where do I put that?
[17:52:50] <Tom_itx> in [traj]
[17:52:58] <_abc_> in what?
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[17:53:10] <andypugh> Connor: This might be the right size
[17:53:11] <andypugh> http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Lathe_Quick_Change_Toolposts.html
[17:53:14] <Tom_itx> your .ini file [TRAJ] section
[17:53:20] <_abc_> ah thanks
[17:54:10] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: dont forget the POSITION_FILE = holds the old values
[17:54:35] <jdhNC> andypugh: that can't be a .uk link, it is in inches.
[17:55:14] <Tom_itx> don't they still use wentworth?
[17:55:16] <Tom_itx> :)
[17:55:29] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: see page 17 on the integrator manual to start from the main manue
[17:56:00] <_abc_> Whitworth maybe
[17:56:02] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: UNCF
[17:56:09] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: I had no time to look there
[17:56:19] <_abc_> As I said, I am new...
[17:56:26] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: for your own help do so
[17:56:28] <andypugh> I had this set on my mini-lathe. But it wasn't great: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-c2-quick-change-tool-post-prod577143/
[17:56:33] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: later, for sure
[17:56:33] <jdhNC> Connor: you can get just the QCTP for $78 from CDCO
[17:56:36] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: too busy now
[17:57:08] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: page 17 is you best friend
[18:00:41] <IchGuckLive> Folks as i read integreador Question accured if i dont set min/max_limit what happens
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[18:07:20] <Tom_itx> to ground the stepper frames would you run one wire or one to each?
[18:07:35] <Tom_itx> (star)
[18:07:47] * Tom_itx already sees it coming..
[18:08:19] <jymmm> Mount the steppers to a grounded frame?
[18:08:48] <IchGuckLive> why grounding almost
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[18:08:54] <IchGuckLive> anyway
[18:09:06] -!- Guthur has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)]
[18:09:51] <Tom_itx> jymmm, well the axis move so it may be a poor connection at best
[18:10:38] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: steppers are on commons
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[18:12:39] <Tom_itx> want to try to eliminate any noise
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[18:13:05] <IchGuckLive> ah witch volts are you on 48?
[18:13:16] <Tom_itx> yeah approx
[18:13:17] <Tom_itx> 50
[18:14:48] <IchGuckLive> the driver as leadshine gecko is connected bak to ground
[18:15:43] <IchGuckLive> im off by for today
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[18:21:25] <Connor> jdhNC: Link to the QCTP on cdco ?
[18:28:19] <andypugh> pcw_home: I have just had an idea. Smart-serial temperature controller for the RepRap chaps. Plug into a 7i76 for a complete solution.
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[18:41:10] <Connor> https://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3112&category=-419988835
[18:41:26] <jdhNC> connor: cdcotools.com item 29461 It is an AXA, might be too big?
[18:41:33] <Connor> Yea, it's too big.
[18:41:56] <jdhNC> I have the HF one on my 7x
[18:42:10] <Connor> Yea, I didn't like that one..
[18:42:43] <jdhNC> it's a good match for the lathe. The tormach one way outclasses the 7x
[18:42:53] <Connor> anything wrong with these indexable inserts and holder. https://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1669
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[18:45:54] <jdhNC> connor: http://www.amazon.com/Quick-Change-Toolpost-holders-Chinese/dp/B003Y5K23I/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1338317109&sr=1-6
[18:47:34] <Connor> Is that not alumn too ?
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[18:48:34] <jdhNC> it is an A2Z ones. I'd just as soon get it from LMS though
[18:49:06] <Connor> Yea, Those are 6061 T6, Alumn.
[18:49:21] <Connor> The tormach is steel.. and comes with the knurl too
[18:49:56] <andypugh> I think the Tormach TP looks like a good bet.
[18:50:13] <jdhNC> ot
[18:50:14] <Connor> yea. $30.00 more with extra attachemnt.. but, not in that tooling package..
[18:50:20] <jdhNC> it's sexy
[18:50:28] <jdhNC> but, I'd feel bad putting that on my 7x :)
[18:50:41] <Connor> how about those indexable TCMT inserts and holders ?
[18:50:59] <andypugh> I wouldn't buy that set of indexable holders, because at least 2 of them are basically useless.
[18:51:20] <Connor> ok. look on LMS and tell me which ones to get.. same size.
[18:51:29] <jdhNC> I have a tiny set of those. Never use them.
[18:52:15] <andypugh> indexable HSS. How wierd.
[18:53:04] <Connor> https://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=1208242246&First=T&Last=T
[18:53:53] <Connor> Damn, that's the cheapest set of indexables I see.. trying to keep this under $200.00
[18:54:03] <jdhNC> get brazed
[18:54:20] <Connor> I don't want brazed. :)
[18:54:25] <andypugh> https://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4516&category=1208242246
[18:54:40] <andypugh> Seriously, why bother with indexable tooling?
[18:54:59] <Connor> what's wrong with it ?
[18:55:11] <andypugh> Expensive.
[18:55:41] <andypugh> Inserts are a few $ each. You can sharpen HSS quickly and easily, and make the tool to suit the job.
[18:55:58] <andypugh> The only reason to use indexable tooling is in repetitive work, really.
[18:56:35] <andypugh> And you don't get caught out by all the shops being shut when you chip an insert on a sunday afternoon.
[18:56:52] <jdhNC> http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-indexable-carbide-tool-set-39931.html
[18:57:21] <andypugh> Same ghastly set, though cheaper.
[18:57:31] <Connor> btw, Why are two useless ?
[18:57:37] <jthornton> the second reason is if you don't have the skills to sharpen HHS tools
[18:57:44] <jdhNC> I have those. I tried one of them once.
[18:58:02] <jthornton> and the third is if your cutting something other than ali or mild steel
[18:58:02] <roycroft> it doesn't take much skill to sharpen single-point tooling
[18:58:07] <roycroft> the problem is a lack of training
[18:58:15] <_abc_> So what about an intermediary step: indexable tool holders... set of...
[18:58:25] <_abc_> you set each tool in a holder then swap the holders...
[18:58:26] <andypugh> They are listed, probably, as "roughing" but they force you to stop a bit shorter every pass.
[18:58:34] <jthornton> and the fourth is if you like how a tool cuts and you don't want to experiment between each sharpening
[18:59:11] <Connor> Well, I have a small benchtop grinder.. but, can't get to it right now.. and I know nothing about grinding bits.
[18:59:37] <andypugh> That LMS set came with samples and instructions
[18:59:59] <roycroft> the hf tool grinder is a nice kit
[18:59:59] <jymmm> A 12" gas powered angle grinder works best
[19:00:54] <roycroft> http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-hp-6-inch-tool-grinder-46727.html
[19:00:59] <andypugh> Interesting that the set of tools with 5 tips is $22, and a set of three tips is $15. So the tip-holders have negative value.
[19:01:04] <roycroft> you can get a set of white wheels for that atr enco
[19:01:11] <roycroft> at enco
[19:01:27] <roycroft> and with a little futzing, it sets up nicely for grinding hss tooling
[19:01:30] <jymmm> roycroft: white being the finest ?
[19:01:43] * roycroft forgets the grit on them
[19:01:58] <roycroft> the green wheels it comes with are designed for carbide
[19:02:05] <andypugh> You don't need the fancy rests to sharpen tools though, you can do it freehand.
[19:02:07] <roycroft> the white ones are more suitable for hss
[19:02:36] <roycroft> when i took my first machining class, we spent the first night learning how to sharpen drill bits freehand
[19:02:46] <roycroft> we were not permitted to do anything else until we mastered that
[19:02:46] <andypugh> (I am amazed how many people throw away drill bits when they are blunt, rather than when the web is too thick)
[19:02:51] <jdhNC> that woudl be a useful skill
[19:03:01] <archivist> sharpen tools under the microscope with the dremel for odd small sizes
[19:03:04] <roycroft> it takes about 20 seconds to sharpen a drill bit by hand
[19:03:16] <jdhNC> for you maybe.
[19:03:27] <andypugh> Yeah, it takes me 10 seconds :-)
[19:03:33] <roycroft> for anyone, with a little practice
[19:03:34] <archivist> roycroft, but what size does it drill!
[19:03:36] <jthornton> how do you get the coating back on after you sharpen the bits?
[19:04:00] <roycroft> i don't usually use coated drill bits
[19:04:03] <andypugh> You don't need coating on the end. And you expose a new section on the cutting edge.
[19:04:04] <roycroft> they're expensive
[19:04:07] <Connor> Well.. I've got a budget of around $200.00.. It was either ballscrews, which I don't need ATM because they mill is working, QCTP, with better set of turning bits, or a few Tormach Tool holders for the mill.
[19:04:34] <archivist> just save up and get all eventually :)
[19:04:45] <Connor> maybe I just sit on it for a bit longer..
[19:04:55] <archivist> I know eventually can mean years
[19:05:00] <jdhNC> take your wife out to dinner, buy her some shoes.
[19:05:14] <Connor> finish making my stepper motor covers... and install the Y and Z limits..
[19:05:21] <andypugh> Connor Get the Tormach QCTP and a good left-hand cutting DCMT holder. And a few bits of 3/8" HSS for specials.
[19:06:23] <Connor> They don't have a LH DCMT... :(
[19:07:51] <andypugh> Aha! http://www.ebay.com/itm/400261938470?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d31787d26#ht_1806wt_1180
[19:09:12] <andypugh> Those do at least all look useful. And the inserts look to have actual chipbreakers.
[19:10:15] <Connor> I'm going to hold off a bit.
[19:10:51] <andypugh> That set includes threading and parting, which is nice.
[19:11:03] <jthornton> nice find on flea bay
[19:11:09] <Connor> maybe get the atom mobo and memory/hd for the robot since I stole the original for the mill :)
[19:12:33] <jthornton> why would you want to install 12.04 and 2.6 for the pure simulator?
[19:14:24] <andypugh> jthornton: Did you try earthing that neutral point yet?
[19:15:27] <jthornton> no
[19:15:31] <jthornton> is that safe?
[19:17:31] <andypugh> It's on the output side isn't it? As far as I recall that is exactly what Siemens recommend for an IT earthing scheme (which I think you effectively have)
[19:17:41] <Connor> okay, what's the closest metric size to a 4-40 screw ?
[19:18:11] <andypugh> Connor: http://www.bodgesoc.org/thread_dia_pitch.html
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[19:19:08] <andypugh> M3 is close but a little larger, by 6 thou.
[19:19:36] <Connor> let me check.. I have a M3 tap..
[19:19:51] <Connor> may have to take it with me and check at HW store.
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[19:22:10] <jthornton> andypugh, I'm not sure where it is I get low ohms from N to all the other terminals
[19:22:47] <jthornton> iirc about 2.5M ohms from N to ground
[19:22:55] <Connor> yup. it's M3. I thought it was 4-40. I think the HW store has M3's
[19:24:45] <andypugh> All the terminals?
[19:25:26] <andypugh> That might mean that the transformer is an autotransformer. What's the resistance from input to output?
[19:25:43] <jthornton> I didn't check that
[19:25:55] <jthornton> I'll go out to the shop and see
[19:27:02] <_abc_> very not nice, we had several quakes around our country, but nothing big from our own fault yet
[19:28:01] <jymmm> _abc_: If you have earthquakes, it's you're own fault!
[19:28:21] <_abc_> grrr punitive puns
[19:28:22] <jymmm> _abc_: Hi from San Andreas Fault line =)
[19:28:37] <_abc_> yeah ours kills only about 8500 every 40 years or so
[19:29:49] <jymmm> Its sad that I just sleep through a 5.0 or less earthquake.
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[19:31:20] <JT-Shop> andypugh: any terminal to ground is 2.5M ohm
[19:31:36] <JT-Shop> any terminal to any terminal is about 0.2 ohm
[19:32:05] <andypugh> It's an Autotransformer then, which is annoying.
[19:32:07] <JT-Shop> _abc_: have you sorted out your homing blues?
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[19:32:41] <andypugh> However, you did find step-down and step-up delta-wye transformers, so you could _replace_ that transformer with one of those.
[19:32:47] <andypugh> But ask Siemens first.
[19:34:17] <JT-Shop> aye, I plan on calling them in the morning
[19:34:39] <Connor> is there a 2.5.x simulator ?
[19:35:02] <JT-Shop> sure
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[19:40:31] <jymmm> Interesting use of electricity testing, truck logo funny too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4EmLvzmTHA&feature=related
[19:45:57] <JT-Shop> interesting on the wiki autotransformer page "In three phase power transmission applications, autotransformers have the limitations of not suppressing harmonic currents and as acting as another source of ground fault currents."
[19:47:57] <jymmm> ground fault being noise in this case?
[19:48:55] <archivist> no current
[19:52:49] <Connor> Can not find -sec RS274NGC -var PARAMETER_FILE -num 1
[19:53:07] <Connor> straight from the example http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui/ngcgui.html
[19:53:12] <Connor> in the Sample INI
[19:56:52] <mrsun> http://imagebin.org/214362 <-- before, http://imagebin.org/214363 <-- after this is cutting an unknown material recomended to use carbide tooling with .. 45 minutes of engagement in the material ... the mill is dull at the end, but i guess 45 minutes in abrasive materials is quite good anyways :P
[19:58:51] <jymmm> Bored? Feeling adventurous? New use for your lathe.... glass! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n4WVRKkmww
[20:01:37] <mrsun> the endmill should be as sharp at the end of the mill as at the top right? :)
[20:02:14] <andypugh> jymmm: This is fun.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl-QMuUQhVM
[20:04:39] <andypugh> I knew a chap who made vacuum tubes out of tin cans and jam jars, though he did have a lot of time on his hands while staying at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalag_Luft_III
[20:05:57] <mrsun> hell it cant even shave my nail at the very end
[20:07:54] <jymmm> andypugh: My first and last owned tube device was a shortwave receiver. Though I have used a 2KW tube linear amp on 10 meters =)
[20:08:28] <jymmm> RF, not audio
[20:08:36] <andypugh> I would guess that gene77 has used the biggest and most tubes.
[20:09:03] <jymmm> Studio engineer?
[20:11:09] <jymmm> andypugh: Heh, I love how they use all these OLD skool tools, then an IR Ceramic heater elements for tempering =)
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[20:17:14] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:19:01] <andypugh> It looks like he made his own vacuum pumps!
[20:20:00] <andypugh> But then at the end of video 2 he appears to have some very nice milling machines. Deckel?
[20:20:32] <jymmm> andypugh: Gawd, it ALWAYS creeps me out when glass blowers pull/stretch glass to seal ends. You know that long super thin and pointed time is gonna be sharp and brittle as hell when it cools!
[20:20:59] <jymmm> s/time/tip/
[20:24:13] <jymmm> andypugh: Those are some seriously heavy duty piston rods
[20:25:31] <jymmm> andypugh: especially for how slow they move
[20:25:51] <andypugh> Yes, I don't know why it moves so very slowly.
[20:26:09] <jymmm> andypugh: That high a vacuum?
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[20:27:05] <andypugh> As i understand it, you want to spin fast to make more vacuum, to minimise the effect of leakage past the pistons. But then I don't know that much about the subject.
[20:27:21] <jymmm> andypugh: nice video(s), thanks!
[20:27:36] <mrsun> what do they mean by hardness hrc63 on carbide end mills for example ? .. isnt hss as hard? so why use carbide then ? is the only thing you gain rigidity ?
[20:28:10] <andypugh> HSS is much under-rated, and far tougher.
[20:28:24] <andypugh> But yes, carbide is a lot stiffer.
[20:28:45] <jymmm> andypugh: Maybe due to it being constantly heated glass under normal operation, so they have to build up the vacuum slowly to test the integrity of the tubes envelope?
[20:28:52] <mrsun> i used hss on a hardened piece of steel ... ruined the endmill in seconds, put in carbide and cut it like butter
[20:28:57] <jymmm> and it's seal
[20:29:48] <andypugh> Well, yes, HSS is hardened steel, so it will struggle with hardened steel.
[20:30:17] <jymmm> andypugh: Isn't hss surface hardned though?
[20:30:25] <andypugh> No, through-hardened
[20:31:44] <jymmm> mrsun: sounds like it has to do with heat... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_speed_steel
[20:32:27] <jymmm> mrsun: here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_speed_steel#M2
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[20:34:22] <mrsun> how is carbide compared to hss in abrasion resistance ?
[20:34:32] <jymmm> mrsun: I think this answers your question http://www.diamondbladeselect.com/knowledge/some-knowledge-of-high-speed-steel-hss-and-its-market-position/
[20:35:05] <frallzor> cutting alu with 3 cutters compared to 2, what to think of?
[20:36:05] <mrsun> your mother, father and the homeland? :P
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[20:36:57] <frallzor> *flutes
[20:37:14] <jymmm> mrsun: were you taking deep cuts with the hss on hardened steel?
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[20:37:29] <mrsun> jymmm, not very
[20:37:42] <jymmm> heh, define "very" ?
[20:37:50] <mrsun> tho i think one of the biggest problems were that the corners got ripped off :P
[20:37:54] <mrsun> jymmm, 0.1mm maybe
[20:38:01] <mrsun> in those ballparks
[20:38:03] <jymmm> fast cuts?
[20:38:16] <jymmm> fast feed rates I mean?
[20:38:18] <mrsun> jymmm, hmm lets see i think it was about 40mm/min or something
[20:38:19] <andypugh> .1 might be too small.
[20:38:31] <andypugh> (might)
[20:43:41] <andypugh> I wonder where the numbers 115200, 33600, 19600 etc originate from?
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[20:43:57] <jymmm> modem speeds
[20:44:07] <andypugh> I know that!
[20:44:12] <andypugh> Why those numbers?
[20:44:14] <archivist> andypugh, multipliers from 300
[20:44:25] <andypugh> Ah!
[20:44:43] <jymmm> andypugh: http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/internet/modem-speeds.htm
[20:45:17] <archivist> in the dark ages it was 110 iirc then there was a jump to 300 then it got multiplied from there on up
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[20:45:50] <andypugh> I remeber when my 33k6 modem seemed incredibly fast.
[20:46:01] <jymmm> archivist: 110? Never heard of that. acoustic?
[20:46:15] <archivist> and radio
[20:46:23] <jymmm> ah
[20:46:37] <archivist> there is a lower speed for rtty
[20:46:37] <roycroft> folks, sorry for the bother, but what features do i need in a parallel port card for linuxcnc?
[20:46:46] <andypugh> I do recall that the teletype in the attic room of our halls of residence had an acoustic coupler and baudot-coded cards that you dialed with.
[20:46:52] <roycroft> i'm going to order one this afternoon
[20:46:59] <roycroft> and i think a two-port adapter would be useful
[20:47:06] <roycroft> but i'm not sure what else i need on it
[20:47:10] <archivist> roycroft, avoid certain chipsets
[20:47:11] <andypugh> roycroft: Are you sure you want a parport card?
[20:47:32] <roycroft> it seems that most controllers want to talk to the parallel port, no?
[20:47:36] <jymmm> roycroft: depending on it's cost, a PCI mesa card might have better ROI
[20:47:41] <Tom_itx> 300 baud was the shizzle
[20:48:01] <jymmm> Tom_itx: I got one for sale, interested?
[20:48:06] <mrsun> lets say you are cutting an somewhat ebrasive material, what type of cutter would you chose? =)
[20:48:08] <mrsun> hss or carbide? :)
[20:48:14] <Tom_itx> jymmm, no i still have mine
[20:48:15] <andypugh> http://www.mesanet.com/fpgacardinfo.html 5i25 is $80 and can look exactly like a super-fast parport card to most hardware.
[20:48:23] <mrsun> abrasive
[20:48:41] <Tom_itx> US Robotics ftw!
[20:48:41] <andypugh> mrsun: Wire EDM
[20:48:53] <roycroft> would that operate more efficiently than standard parallel ports?
[20:48:53] <mrsun> andypugh, if you had to chose from one of those :P
[20:49:15] <roycroft> the price is not too bad
[20:49:18] <andypugh> mrsun: Well, I would use whatever I could find in the drawer :-)
[20:49:24] <Connor> Can someone tell me why I'm having issues with the [RS274NGC] in my .ini file?
[20:49:31] <Connor> causes this error.
[20:49:42] <jymmm> I have a External USB powered modem, a USB/Serial Voice Modem, and the badass of them all a US Robotics Courier =)
[20:49:45] <roycroft> hmm, and it looks more flexible than parallel ports
[20:49:49] <Connor> Can not find -sec RS274NGC -var PARAMETER_FILE -num 1
[20:49:51] <andypugh> Connor: Pastebin..
[20:49:52] <JT-Shop> typo, not there etc
[20:50:06] <JT-Shop> did you put it in there?
[20:50:19] <andypugh> Connor: I think we are seeing that an awful lot at the moment
[20:50:56] <andypugh> I am not sure it actually matters
[20:51:00] <Connor> http://www.pastebin.ca/2155596
[20:51:09] <Connor> debug dump
[20:52:09] <andypugh> Looking
[20:52:36] * JT-Shop bets a pint that it can't find the var in the section cause it ain't there yet
[20:52:43] <andypugh> Hmm, 2.5 and sim-axis is working fine for me.
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[20:53:01] <Connor> yea. it works fine.. I was adding stuf for ngcgui
[20:53:10] <Connor> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui/ngcgui.html
[20:53:16] <JT-Shop> I think you forgot to add it all
[20:54:54] <JT-Shop> post your ini file
[20:55:11] <andypugh> No suggestion that you need PARAMETER_FILE in the docs
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[20:56:16] <JT-Shop> that may be one of the subfiles that needs that they are intertwined somewhat
[20:56:37] <JT-Shop> I just used the sample configs
[20:56:59] <andypugh> Connor: Try adding PARAMETER_FILE = sim.var to [RS274NGC]
[20:57:47] <jdhNC> the example configs worked (mostly) in mine also. Had to edit paths
[20:58:34] * JT-Shop goes to look cause I hate guessing as I'm usually wrong
[20:59:00] <jymmm> Blind yet??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQAQqt9qxuY
[21:00:01] <JT-Shop> I dont' think that has anything to do with ngcgui
[21:00:14] <frallzor> hello thar
[21:00:19] <frallzor> Mr JT
[21:00:30] <JT-Shop> it's mr Frall
[21:00:53] <JT-Shop> PARAMETER_FILE = myfile.var - The file located in the same directory as the ini file which contains the parameters used by the interpreter (saved between runs).
[21:01:19] <Connor> now .ngc files are complaining isn't in search path.. but it is..
[21:01:20] <JT-Shop> PARAMETER_FILE ^^ suggestion
[21:01:21] <frallzor> indeed it is
[21:01:36] <andypugh> Oh! A tourbillon. COmplete waste of time they are...
[21:01:36] <jymmm> JEEBUS, that's a seriously accurate grinder!
[21:01:47] <JT-Shop> Connor: you must have the paths wrong then
[21:01:54] <Connor> nope. :(
[21:02:11] <Connor> /home/billy/linuxcnc/nc_files
[21:02:25] <jymmm> andypugh: I would think they would need an environmentally controlled area.
[21:02:30] <Connor> /home/billy/linuxcnc/nc_files/ngcgui_lig
[21:02:45] <andypugh> Connor: We can't see those
[21:04:17] <jymmm> andypugh: Waste of time or money?
[21:04:25] <jymmm> $150K USD
[21:04:48] <andypugh> A tourbillon makes it easier to pass the chronometer tests, as that measures consistensy in different positions. But if you are wearing the watch, then it moves around anyway, so there is no point in the movement movinf itself.
[21:04:54] <JT-Shop> Connor: The subroutines need to be in a directory specified by the [RS274NGC]SUBROUTINE_PATH.
[21:06:15] <andypugh> jymmm: $285,000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Daniels_(watchmaker)
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[21:06:22] <Tom_itx> jymmm i had a courier too
[21:06:40] <jymmm> Neat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guTSrF7J6Y0&feature=fvwp&NR=1
[21:07:52] <Tom_itx> u spend alot of time on utube
[21:08:17] <gene77> Yelp guys, need tool table help
[21:08:18] <jymmm> looking for something specific
[21:09:31] <gene77> This entry in my tool table is giving me a tool image that is about 1" in diameter:T9 P9 X0 Y0 Z0 D0.04 ;a #58 drill
[21:09:38] <jymmm> andypugh: $3.99 and has a calculator too http://www.dealextreme.com/p/0-9-lcd-digital-8-digit-calculator-wrist-watches-silver-grey-1-x-lr1130-pair-111094
[21:10:13] <jymmm> andypugh: oh, and free shipping ;)
[21:11:04] <andypugh> gene77: Have you reloaded the tool table?
[21:11:05] <Tom_itx> beam me up scottie
[21:11:43] <jymmm> Tom_itx: They have a Dick Tracy wrist watch with celluar video phone
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[21:11:51] <gene77> From the edit screen yes
[21:12:23] <andypugh> gene77: If you are using Axis, what does it say about loaded tool and offsets/radius at the bottom of the window?
[21:13:12] <Connor> JT-Shop: They are. .. Well.. it's pointed to a sym link.
[21:13:33] <gene77> The reload from the axis menu fixed it! Thanks Andy
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[21:14:09] <archivist> andypugh, seen george daniels :) at a presentation at BHI the worthy dragged in to hand out certificates
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[21:14:32] <JT-Shop> Connor: symlink should work
[21:14:41] <Connor> That's what I thought
[21:14:54] <andypugh> Well, you won't see him again.
[21:15:00] <JT-Shop> me?
[21:15:11] <JT-Shop> oh
[21:15:13] <andypugh> George Daniels
[21:15:20] <JT-Shop> ah
[21:16:14] <andypugh> If you make a clock do you get to join the BHI?
[21:16:22] <archivist> no
[21:16:29] <JT-Shop> Connor: are you cutting and pasting from the sim to your config to get ngcgui to work?
[21:16:35] <archivist> if you pay you get to join
[21:16:51] <andypugh> Even easier. :-)
[21:17:13] <archivist> andypugh, fun part for me was getting a certificate but was not a member :)
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[21:18:26] <archivist> bhi volunteers made a pair of millenium clocks, I made some parts at work
[21:18:31] <andypugh> It's interesting that britain has a huge history of technical innovation in clock and watch making, but no huge output.
[21:19:21] <andypugh> (Harrison, Tompion, Mudge, Daniels)
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[21:19:54] <archivist> and a few others
[21:20:45] <andypugh> Well, yes. They were just the ones that came to mind.
[21:20:55] <Connor> I'm cutting and pasting the stuff from the ngcgui into the sim config.
[21:20:55] <archivist> boss was on the bhi council so I got dragged in occasionally, but wages were rubbish so never joined
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[21:21:54] <Connor> SUBROUTINE_PATH = /home/blly/linuxcnc/nc_files/ngcgui_lib:/home/billy/linuxcnc/nc_files/ngcgui_lib/utilitysubs
[21:21:54] <Connor> USER_M_PATH = /home/billy/linuxcnc/nc_files/ngcgui_lib/mfiles
[21:22:37] <Connor> crap.. I think I had a typo.
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[21:54:58] <drmacro> I would like to search the forum archives, but being noob, I don't even know what search criteria to use. I want to find out more about using a 4th axis to rotate a head for engraving on the outside of a tube.
[21:59:38] <andypugh> Hmm, well, no good searching. I have read the forums and that question hasn't come up.
[22:02:14] <andypugh> I think I would create a custom config with A mapped as a linear axis, but with the stepper scale adjusted to account for Z-height.
[22:02:45] <andypugh> That way XA space is square and you can engrave in it with no maths.
[22:04:54] <andypugh> Unfortunately stepgen.position-scale is a parameter, not a pin. So you would need to set it from a shell script (M100-M199) or manually.
[22:05:32] <andypugh> Am I making any sense?
[22:06:09] <andypugh> I can iterate up or down the knowing-lots-about-linuxCNC scale to suit, if I know where you stand.
[22:08:40] <drmacro> andypugh do you frequent linux audio forums as well?
[22:09:40] <drmacro> or maybe kicad?
[22:14:02] <frallzor> its a miracle, for the first time I am pleased with solidworks rendering
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[22:18:01] <andypugh> drmacro: No. Why, is there another one of me?
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[22:21:40] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Could the world even handle such a concept?
[22:22:17] <drmacro> andypugh: handle looks familiar, might be from some cnc forum as well...too much time spent on the intertubes for me I guess :)
[22:23:40] <drmacro> In any case, the goal is to be able to engrave letters on barrels of connectors. making the connections in hal is definitely one question, the other is how to get from cad to gcode
[22:24:00] <andypugh> I am occasionally seen on cnczone
[22:25:25] <andypugh> Well, if you can create XY text data, then LinuxCNC can be persuaded to engrave it.
[22:26:03] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators#Text_Engraving_Software
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[22:33:17] <drmacro> andypugh: Yes, I've seen that...but I think that does it on an xy plane.
[22:34:28] <andypugh> Simple text-substitution.
[22:35:06] <andypugh> Or, make a config where Y is a radius-scaled rotary and jog into position with a linear A
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[22:37:55] <drmacro> andypugh: maybe I'm making it too complicated because I don't know enough. But, imagine the tread on a tire is made of letters engraved in the surface. Are we thinking the same thing?
[22:38:31] <drmacro> it seems to me each increment of the x and y axis are a different z
[22:38:44] <drmacro> to trace a letter
[22:39:01] <andypugh> Yes. http://store.cokertire.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/i/firestone-nonskid-33x5-tread_9.jpg
[22:39:21] <andypugh> Ah. Do you have a rotary axis?
[22:40:02] <andypugh> Yes, you have a 4th axis, you said? So Z is constant.
[22:40:04] <drmacro> Ok, we're talking the same. Yes, the intent is to have a rotary axis
[22:40:41] <drmacro> ah, yes of course z is constant
[22:40:57] <andypugh> (We tried some original "Non-Skid" tyres on our 1925 truck, They were awful, and wore very quickly.
[22:41:55] <drmacro> so the x axis get some magic to make the x coords rotate rather than move +/-
[22:42:45] <drmacro> so how do i make that magic happen
[22:44:07] <drmacro> I didn't know you could make a '25 truck lay rubber :)
[22:44:42] <drmacro> my sawdust retreas used to go pretty quick...
[22:45:01] <drmacro> s/retreas/retreads
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[22:46:59] <andypugh> As far as LinuxCNC is concerned, it has no idea what the motor it is turning is actually doing.
[22:48:01] <andypugh> So if you connect the X-steps to a rotary with the scale set to suit the radius, then it will happily engrave XY text on a cylinder.
[22:48:32] <andypugh> (if you get the scale wrong your text will get thinner or fatter.)
[22:49:01] <drmacro> Right, so the max x travel is the circumference
[22:49:25] <andypugh> You might even consider making a specialised XZB machine if you intend doing a lot of this.
[22:49:56] <drmacro> ZB?
[22:50:00] <andypugh> drmacro: Well, you might make X travel several circumferences to engrave spiral text
[22:50:48] <andypugh> (B is the rotary aligned with Y, conventionally)
[22:51:45] <andypugh> Bear in mind that your machine is the config you load. I have a lathe/mill and the motors swap jobs depending on which LinuxCNC config file I load.
[22:52:39] <andypugh> So, you could create a config especially suited for cylindrical engraving, and load that when needed. And have a normal XYZ machine the rest of the time.
[22:53:46] <drmacro> Yes, I see
[22:54:42] <drmacro> switching gears...does it even make sense to consider steppers on a B'port?
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[22:56:04] <syyl> why not
[22:56:20] <syyl> i think there were stepperdriven bridgeports from the factory
[22:57:17] <andypugh> Yes, the first BOSS machines used huge steppers. They were, by all accoounts, a bit poor.
[22:57:19] <syyl> the german made deckel fp3E came also with stepper drives
[22:57:33] <andypugh> But steppers have improved since.
[22:57:41] <andypugh> Nevertheless, I wouldn't.
[23:01:14] <drmacro> I was leaning toward servos, just thought I'd ask. And, i'm kinda reconciled to spending around $1k for ball screws?
[23:01:32] <syyl> you want ball screws
[23:01:34] <syyl> period
[23:02:14] <andypugh> But 1k seems high
[23:03:19] <drmacro> x/y only less, + knee ~$1k at least what I've found.
[23:04:51] <andypugh> What sizes?
[23:06:20] <andypugh> 25mm double ballnut is arounf $150, and then the ballscrew is $30 per foot
[23:06:45] <drmacro> 12x36 for X/Y, I think the knee is 12 or less
[23:07:35] <andypugh> You probably don't nees a double for Z
[23:07:48] <syyl> the weight will even it out ;)
[23:07:48] <andypugh> http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/gten-brand-ballscrews-ballnuts-ballnuts-c-1_59_66.html
[23:08:07] <andypugh> (that's UK prices, probably cheaper in the US)
[23:08:50] <andypugh> Generic ballnuts are about half the price from that site.
[23:09:21] <andypugh> Like £40 for a 32mm single ballnut.
[23:10:44] <drmacro> I was looking at the pre configured B'port replacements. Clearly, I need to research the generics.
[23:11:18] <andypugh> It depends in whether you can machine your own ballscrews.
[23:12:25] <syyl> and thats nothing you want to do on a chinese minilathe :D
[23:13:20] <drmacro> I have an 11"x36" Logan...
[23:13:32] <syyl> that sounds good :D
[23:13:43] <andypugh> OK, then wind it up to full speed and buy a CBN insert from eBay
[23:13:48] <syyl> its just important that the ballscrew fits the spindle bore
[23:14:04] <syyl> you wont do that with a steady rest :D
[23:15:26] <andypugh> This is what happens if you can't get it through the spindle: http://youtu.be/IPP4r3H2VO8
[23:16:55] <syyl> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah :D
[23:17:23] <andypugh> It turned out all right in the end
[23:17:45] <syyl> and the cbn insert? :D
[23:17:57] <andypugh> Yes, well, I had to turn it round.
[23:18:04] <drmacro> Love the sparks...I thought you were only suppose to do blue swarf on shapers ;-)
[23:19:07] <syyl> time to leave
[23:19:10] <syyl> goodnight :D
[23:19:18] <drmacro> need support on the part sticking out the other end of the headstock no?
[23:19:24] <andypugh> No, with CBN and Hard Turning you want sparks. It's effectively single-point grinding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLpv3x0hlck
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[23:23:36] <drmacro> I've not actually had the X/Y off my B'port and I haven't dug out the manual. Is there an insert in the knuckle that can be replaced by a ball nut, or does the nut need a carrier in the knuckle?
[23:25:26] <andypugh> No idea. I used a Bridgeport, once.
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[23:30:38] <JT-Shop> mine came with the kit
[23:32:29] <JT-Shop> seems like you can get a "converted" one on flea bay for not much anymore
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[23:42:48] <drmacro> just did some lookin on ebay, not much to be had. which kit did you buy?
[23:44:03] <SWPadnos> a standard Bridgeport has a yoke which "ties" the X and Y ballscrews together
[23:44:49] <SWPadnos> the X screw is held in place by bearings on either side of the table, along with a ballnut in the yoke. The Y screw is held only at the front of the machine and in the yoke
[23:44:56] <JT-Shop> I purchased a BP series 1 with an Anilam 1100M kit installed
[23:44:57] <drmacro> yes, gonna have to tear mine apart to measure...:P
[23:45:19] <SWPadnos> are you looking for the overall length of the screws?
[23:45:56] <SWPadnos> I think the ballnuts won't fit quite right in the standard yoke, but I don't specifically remember buying a replacement yoke (so maybe they do ...)
[23:46:35] <drmacro> that was the question: would generic ball nuts fit the yoke?
[23:46:48] <SWPadnos> heh. well, my memory says yes or no :)
[23:48:28] <drmacro> I'm guessing from the anilam web site they are gonna be a bit out out of my hobbyist budget
[23:48:50] <JT-Shop> yea, new would be real high
[23:48:53] <SWPadnos> yeah, they're not cheap. I got a set for ~$600 IIRC, 5 years ago
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[23:49:08] <JT-Shop> ball screws?
[23:49:12] <SWPadnos> yep
[23:49:22] <SWPadnos> ground, even
[23:49:28] <JT-Shop> the Anilam kit was a complete conversion back when
[23:49:32] <JT-Shop> nice!
[23:49:39] <drmacro> the kits I've seen were rolled and around $1200
[23:50:09] <SWPadnos> yeah. this was from a pallet of NOS import screws, but they happened to be very nice for the money
[23:51:14] <drmacro> andypugh suggested generics, but seems to be more sellers in UK and McMasterCarr is off the charts
[23:51:33] <SWPadnos> then you definitely don't want to know about Elrod Machine :)
[23:51:54] <JT-Shop> you ain't from round ere ar ya?
[23:53:42] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=30&id=20500#20500
[23:55:02] <andypugh> drmacro: Wierdly enough: http://www.amazon.com/Nook-SBN10325-Standard-Accuracy-0631-0200/dp/B0052FRULA/ref=sr_1_12?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1338335649&sr=1-12
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[23:56:14] <JT-Shop> amazon your one stop ball screw shop
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[23:57:50] <drmacro> I knew as soon as I typed it, someone would do a different search and prove me wrong. :'(
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[23:58:45] <JT-Shop> heh
[23:59:50] <andypugh> Try http://www.nookindustries.com/ball/BallHome.cfm (but no online pricing)