#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-26

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[00:21:31] <ReadError> did you laser cut those Loetmichel?
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[00:22:43] <ReadError> nm just saw the video
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[00:27:29] <andypugh> jdhNC: 1/50th HP sounds so much more feeble than 20W
[00:30:00] <Connor> jdhNC: Same as the one on ebay for $115.00 + 18 shipping..
[00:31:01] <jdhNC> yeah, but it's not ebay
[00:31:22] <Connor> one on ebay is from BuildStore.
[00:31:46] <Connor> I don't mind ebay
[00:32:15] <Connor> but, that can wait.
[00:32:23] <Connor> I need other things first.
[00:32:52] <Connor> I just had a little windshield wiper pump laying around..
[00:37:13] <jdhNC> worst that will happen is it dies
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[02:21:40] <jymmm> That's not balsa, that's russian plywood
[02:22:15] <jymmm> 4 ply
[02:23:11] <jymmm> maybe 3ply
[02:23:18] <Tom_itx> heh
[02:26:15] <jymmm> Tom_itx: ?
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[03:08:17] <Connor> So, what to buy next. QCTP for my lathe/mill setup with index bits and boring bar set; Tormach Basic starter set (or come up with my own); Ball screws and such for my mill to replace the stock ones...
[03:09:34] <Tom_itx> ball screws
[03:10:34] <Connor> reasoning ?
[03:10:46] <Tom_itx> you asked
[03:10:51] <Tom_itx> it's what i'd get
[03:15:04] <Connor> The thing with the screws is, I already have it working.. would be nice to do some other stuff and then upgrade when my budget allows again.
[03:16:29] <jdhNC> tormach is nifty but doesn't buy you anything
[03:17:03] <Tom_itx> i had a working mill too and made a new psu and got new drivers for it
[03:17:36] <Connor> jdhNC: It doesn't ? Does if I want to start doing automatic tool changing.
[03:17:55] <Connor> I HATE having to change the tools.. it's a pain.
[03:21:11] <Connor> going to the shop and do some cardboard cad work to figure out how to mount the sensors for the spindle...
[03:24:53] <jdhNC> I like my $5 edge finder
[03:25:33] <Connor2> ? What you get ?
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[03:26:34] <jdhNC> generic spinny 3/8" .200 edge finder
[03:26:58] <Connor_CNC> Ah yea, wobblers..
[03:28:13] <jdhNC> I think I will either buy an er32 collet set or some end mill holder. Probably the collet set
[03:28:33] <skunkworks__> make or buy one of these... the best money we spent.. http://youtu.be/U61ub6mtpH4
[03:29:17] <jdhNC> yeah, that would be nice also
[03:29:38] <jdhNC> wonder if anyone here has made any extra they want to get rid of cheap
[03:30:06] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/probe_index.php
[03:30:15] <Tom_itx> haven't tested mine on the machine yet
[03:30:30] <jdhNC> send me one, I'll try it out.
[03:30:46] <Tom_itx> i need to get tips for them still
[03:32:28] <Connor> 0
[03:32:53] <jdhNC> 1
[03:33:33] <Tom_itx> https://www.carbideprobes.com/
[03:33:38] <Tom_itx> they have reasonable tips
[03:35:23] <Connor_CNC> WTF.. My DOG typed that in my office.. I'm out in the shop..
[03:42:23] <Connor_CNC> AXIS Quick reference is wrong. says hitting HOME send current axis home. All it does for me is try to set the current position AS home. ?
[03:43:37] <skunkworks__> Connor_CNC: depends on how your machine is setup
[03:44:36] <skunkworks__> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/config/ini_homing.html
[03:45:53] <Connor_CNC> okay.. My Y and Z are set manually for now.. X is only one that auto-homes..
[03:46:01] <Connor_CNC> would that be the reason ?
[03:47:50] <skunkworks__> 3.1. HOME_SEARCH_VEL
[03:47:52] <skunkworks__> The default value is zero. A value of zero causes LinuxCNC to assume that there is no home switch; the search stage of homing is skipped
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[03:48:27] <Connor_CNC> So, ALL must be auto based for that to work ?
[03:48:53] <jdhNC> there is a chart in there that seems to be incorrect
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[03:51:46] <skunkworks__> for what to work?
[03:52:11] <jdhNC> for not trying to auto-home
[03:52:30] <Connor_CNC> from what the reference in AXIS says. Hitting the home button, will SEND the axis home, not SET it.
[03:52:52] <Connor_CNC> I tried it on my X which auto homes... and it tries to set home to the current position...\
[03:53:13] <skunkworks__> then your ini isn't setup correctly
[03:53:15] <jdhNC> do you have search_vel and latch_vel?
[03:53:43] <Connor_CNC> well.. wait.. hitting home, made is search for home again.. instead of just going to home..
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[04:29:29] <jdhNC> why did my boring bar make an oval hole?
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[04:41:22] <jymmm> it was bored of making round holes
[04:41:48] <Connor> jdhNC: You change the speed of the spindle while boring ?
[04:42:01] <Connor> You using a long boring bar?
[04:42:15] <jdhNC> shortest one
[04:42:21] <Connor> OH. Might be out of tram.
[04:42:32] <Connor> How OFF was it ?
[04:43:11] <jdhNC> .040
[04:44:16] <Connor> That could easily be tram issue
[04:44:33] <jdhNC> in what plane?
[04:44:52] <Connor> which way is it longer ? X or Y ?
[04:45:09] <jdhNC> Y
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[04:45:38] <Connor> You check the tram on the Y yet ?
[04:46:19] <Connor> The other question, did you move the X and Y during boring at all ?
[04:46:38] <jdhNC> never moved anything (used the quill)
[04:46:54] <jymmm> everything "locked down"?
[04:46:56] <jdhNC> I'm not sure I know how to check Y tram
[04:47:12] <jdhNC> nothing seemed to be moving.
[04:47:25] <Connor> same as you do the X. just spin your Tram square 90 degrees.
[04:47:45] <Connor> The quill might cause it... You can try using the Z and lock the quill down.
[04:48:19] <Connor> is it the same on both sides (or is this a blind bore ?
[04:48:26] <jdhNC> I can't see how that would make an oval. It would make a hole that wasn't teh same on top and bottom.
[04:48:42] <jdhNC> through hole. It's the Y ballnut mount
[04:49:03] <Connor> Well, it just for clearance.. no big deal.
[04:49:11] <jdhNC> looks like it will work fine, just annoyingly oval.
[04:49:35] <jdhNC> it was cutting beautifully too, up until the last pass where it started chattering
[04:49:51] <Connor> Did you use the center hole in boring head or the next one out ?
[04:50:01] <jdhNC> center hole
[04:51:03] <Connor> is it oval, or elongated ?
[04:51:44] <jdhNC> what's the difference?
[04:52:27] <Connor> elongated can be slightly longer one way than the other.. it's not a true oval..
[04:52:52] <jdhNC> dunno. I just measured it and got high/low
[04:53:08] <Connor> No flats ?
[04:53:15] <jdhNC> nope
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[04:54:13] <jdhNC> still need to make the Y Space block. I will also have to bore it
[04:54:32] <Connor> I dunno.. The only other things I can think of is out of tram, run-out on the spindle, flexing in the quill in the Y plane.
[04:54:41] <Connor> what RPM was you running at ?
[04:55:01] <jdhNC> 900-1500 or so
[04:55:09] <Connor> WOW. Too fast.
[04:55:09] <jdhNC> tried different ones.
[04:55:36] <toastydeath> what is the problem
[04:55:41] <Connor> I bet that thing was vibrating..
[04:55:51] <jdhNC> it did on the last pass
[04:56:01] <Connor> I think I kept mine down around 300-500rpm
[04:56:13] <toastydeath> boring head bored an oval hole?
[04:56:16] <jdhNC> toasty: oval holes using a boring head
[04:56:20] <toastydeath> how far out is it
[04:56:34] <toastydeath> and in what direction
[04:56:36] <jdhNC> .040 bigger in one direction
[04:56:41] <Connor> He said .040 in the Y
[04:56:47] <toastydeath> that's quite impressive
[04:56:55] <Connor> and he was using the quill.
[04:57:01] <toastydeath> it happened on the last pass only?
[04:57:09] <jdhNC> I dont' know that it is perfectly Y aligned, but in that general direction.
[04:57:18] <toastydeath> i.e. everything was measured to be cylindrical the pass prior?
[04:58:05] <jdhNC> evidently not the immediate prior pass. I started out with a drilled .5" hole and used the boring head to make it 1.110"
[04:58:11] <Connor> I would try on some scrap.. Use the Z instead of the quill, and use JOG or MDI to do it..
[04:58:35] <toastydeath> jdhNC, but it WAS round the pass prior
[04:58:37] <Connor> nice slow feed rate.
[04:58:48] <toastydeath> or are you saying you didn't measure it
[04:58:53] <jdhNC> didn't check the prior pass
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[04:59:17] <Connor> the chatter could have done it... how much was you taking per pass ?
[04:59:27] <Connor> and did you take a spring pass ?
[04:59:42] <toastydeath> avoid spring passes unless you boned something up
[04:59:47] <jdhNC> 10-15thou per cut
[05:00:07] <toastydeath> jdhNC, 10-15 on the radius, or on the diameter
[05:00:17] <jdhNC> diameter
[05:00:42] <Connor> I would sneak up on it last few passes taking .001 or so off.
[05:00:58] <toastydeath> something either came loose or you had a dynamic effect from taking too light a cut at too high a speed
[05:01:10] <jdhNC> I could take off another 3 or 4 just by reboring the same hole
[05:01:25] <Connor> You already remove the part from the vise ?
[05:01:37] <Connor> it's HARD to get it centered again.
[05:01:41] <jdhNC> yep, didn't notice until I took it out.
[05:02:04] <Connor> Given the application, I wouldn't worry about it...It's just a clearance hole anyway.
[05:02:18] <jdhNC> yeah, still annoying.
[05:02:27] <jdhNC> the next one will be a bearing holder
[05:02:29] <Connor> but, I would practice on some scrap before doing your Y spacer block bearing pockets.
[05:02:42] <Connor> and slow it down. 300-500 RPM.
[05:03:03] <Connor> and use your Z jogging or MDI..
[05:03:07] <Connor> lock the quill down.
[05:03:09] <jdhNC> wonder how well this cuts circles as-is
[05:03:40] <jdhNC> (cnc'ed circles)
[05:03:41] <Connor> CNC ? Would have been okay for that.. I would still use boring head for the bearing pockets.
[05:03:50] <toastydeath> most machines, even commercial vmcs, have substantial hysterisis in circular tracking
[05:04:09] <djdelorie> my first cnc hole was oval. Thought I had a metric screw (12mm) but I actually had an imperial screw (0.5 inch)
[05:04:22] <Connor> Lathe would even be better. (4 jaw chuck)
[05:04:24] <toastydeath> if it matters enough to break out a boring bar, very few machines could match it in interpolation
[05:05:05] <Connor> no chance of the flexing do to the RPM.
[05:05:07] <djdelorie> check for backlash in one of the axes?
[05:05:22] <Connor> djdelorie: He was using a boring head..
[05:05:28] <Connor> wouldn't have caused it..
[05:05:46] <djdelorie> depends on the forces involved
[05:06:27] <Connor> It is slightly possible that the boring head was moving the table a bit.. but to be .040 out...
[05:06:35] <toastydeath> if the axis wasn't fully locked down or the locks are a bit loose, it can absolutely move it around but .04 is unlikely
[05:06:50] <jdhNC> nothing was locked, just the steppers holding it in place
[05:06:57] <Connor> I removed all the locks on my after I CNC'ed it.
[05:07:01] <toastydeath> the only place I've seen that much movement is on a manual horizontal mill
[05:07:08] <djdelorie> how many cutters on the boring head?
[05:07:08] <toastydeath> with the climb nut disengaged
[05:07:28] <Connor> I'm thinking combo RPM + Quill + Chatter
[05:07:31] <jdhNC> single boring bar in the head
[05:07:58] <djdelorie> I can imagine the cutting forces causing more play in one axis than the other
[05:08:06] <toastydeath> jdhNC, there is a well-known effect in mill design where you have dynamic rigidity breakdowns
[05:08:20] <jdhNC> true, and my Y has more backlash
[05:08:33] <toastydeath> at periodic points, and that CAN cause enough movement in one axis to bore .040 out
[05:08:54] <jdhNC> my Y lead nut is semi-defective.
[05:09:11] <toastydeath> if you have backlash, you must lock the table down for boring
[05:09:26] <toastydeath> there is no way to hold the table still with a motor if you have backlash.
[05:10:20] <jdhNC> I'll try again tomorrow with the x/y locked down.
[05:10:45] <jdhNC> the head is pretty much a pain with the constant resettting size.
[05:10:54] <toastydeath> ...constant resetting size?
[05:11:03] <jdhNC> I could cnc to .015 under and bore.
[05:11:15] <toastydeath> or you could bore .050-.100 per pass
[05:11:28] <jdhNC> taking .010-.020 cuts stopping, etc
[05:11:58] <jdhNC> that seems excessive, but I guess it wouldn't matter if it was slower.
[05:12:10] <toastydeath> in operations like this, you take deep cuts slowly
[05:12:29] <toastydeath> .100 is not a heavy cut
[05:12:34] <jdhNC> it is for me.
[05:12:56] <jdhNC> I'm not a machinist...
[05:13:04] <toastydeath> .002" per rev feed, at a slow enough rpm for the machine to not bog
[05:13:27] <Connor> He's not dealing with a very large machine..
[05:13:30] <Connor> it's a G0704.
[05:13:32] <toastydeath> more per revolution is more efficient from a horsepower perspective
[05:13:49] <toastydeath> i.e. the hp and torque requirement per volume goes down
[05:14:53] <toastydeath> gear it down to the slowest speed and try to take it nearly all at once
[05:14:59] <toastydeath> it'll make some noise but it'll go quickly.
[05:15:29] <toastydeath> this is true even on small machines.
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[05:16:09] <djdelorie> today I discovered my metal lathe can take a 7 thou shaving 1/8" wide in steel, without slowing down :-)
[05:16:20] <djdelorie> it did, however, tend to throw chips at me
[05:16:41] <toastydeath> lol
[05:16:52] <djdelorie> I likely had the wrong tool bit in
[05:20:38] <jdhNC> connor: do you know if alcoa is still operating in alcoa?
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[05:29:13] <toastydeath> also a better trick for getting parts to align is to always use soft jaws
[05:29:37] <toastydeath> you can't even hope to approach the accuracy of soft jaws with a four jaw or mill vise
[05:30:00] <toastydeath> if you have to take the part out of the machine, you can put it back exactly where it was before with no movement
[05:30:28] <toastydeath> it's also one of the only ways to cut anything remotely flat
[05:30:47] <toastydeath> used to do 18" bars that had to be +/- .0002"
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[05:31:00] <toastydeath> er, just plus, not minux
[05:31:08] <toastydeath> *minus
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[05:54:01] <archivist> djdelorie, you need a chip breaking insert
[05:54:39] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/img_2627.html
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[05:55:37] <jymmm> djdelorie: R.I.P.
[05:56:10] <djdelorie> bad choice of jokes. It was my father-in-law's lathe before he passed away.
[05:56:24] <jymmm> My aplogogies
[05:56:29] <jymmm> and condolences
[05:57:15] <djdelorie> the lathe was older than he was, the tooling is mostly "old school". And it ALL WORKS. He took good care of it
[05:58:13] <archivist> djdelorie, 99.9% of hand ground tooling does not have chip breaking, one has to just lean out the way :)
[05:58:32] <djdelorie> yeah. Safety glasses were an obvious "must"
[05:58:54] <djdelorie> most of the chips just curled up and fell off, but some of them got thrown in random directions
[05:59:16] <djdelorie> I haven't bought any new tooling for it yet, although I have a shopping list of some needed things, like new centers
[05:59:29] <jymmm> Hey guys, something you migt want to at least bookmark... http://www.machinistblog.com/make-your-own-machinable-wax/
[06:00:21] <archivist> you can add temporary guards to catch/deflect the chips but often they obscure the work or get in the way
[06:01:14] <djdelorie> it's just candles and milk jugs? Cool.
[06:01:44] <djdelorie> I'm not too worried about the chips at the moment, I'm still in the "getting it running and figuring it out" stage, not the actual "getting stuff made" stage.
[06:01:56] <jymmm> djdelorie: Well, canle wax isn't actually parrafin wax, but can consist of it as a blend (for the record)
[06:01:57] <djdelorie> I need to rearrange my shop to keep all the messy tools in one spot, too
[06:02:10] <djdelorie> I used to make candles when I was a kid
[06:03:08] <jymmm> And not all paraffin wax is the same either, as I've learned the hard way.
[06:04:43] <jymmm> Funny thing, I just spoke to a R&D Chemist from a wax refinery this morning actually. I got skooled =)
[06:07:39] <jymmm> djdelorie: Oh, and if yu ever want to make colored candles, never use crayons. They clog the pores of the wick =)
[06:07:52] <djdelorie> IIRC, that's exactly what we used
[06:08:22] <jymmm> Most do, it's easy. But I've been learning a lot about waxes and the like.
[06:09:02] <jymmm> But as a kid, eh it's easy enough =)
[06:09:56] <jymmm> as far as that machinist wax, I don't know much about LDPE to comment
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[06:10:40] <jymmm> There are other ways to harden wax that are simpler
[06:11:16] <jymmm> siric acid (sp) is one
[06:13:10] <jymmm> djdelorie: powdered coffee creamer, and some other semi-translucent containers (looks milky) are LDPE
[06:13:26] <jymmm> ice tea mix, etc
[06:15:13] <djdelorie> too many fun things to try, not enough free weekends...
[06:15:45] <jymmm> djdelorie: Eh, old coffee cans and a burner, how much time could it take?
[06:16:01] <jymmm> gas camping stove works too
[06:16:30] <jymmm> djdelorie: Try to use a double boiler, as it's easy to get wax to the ignition stage
[06:16:30] <djdelorie> actually, it's the paraffin I don't have. And it's not nearly at the top of the priority list anyway
[06:16:50] <jymmm> djdelorie: old candles would do in a pinch
[06:17:27] <jymmm> or hit the dollar store for a couple of those religous cnadles, pure paraffin
[06:17:48] <djdelorie> I live in the middle of nowhere. The dollar store is $6 in gas away from here.
[06:17:57] <jymmm> of $5 for a 1LB block at the grocery store canning/baking isle
[06:18:09] <djdelorie> and my list of "just a few minutes" project is longer than I want to admit ;-)
[06:18:52] <jymmm> djdelorie: Well, start saving metal containers that you normally toss out. canned foods, soda cans etc
[06:19:04] <djdelorie> got plenty of those
[06:19:11] <jymmm> perfect for melting small batches
[06:19:55] <jymmm> I take soda cans and a hand can opener and remove the tops, but keep the ring for rigidity
[06:21:11] <jymmm> weigh the can, then you can make formulas consistantly after that (by weight)
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[07:17:05] <mrsun> yey got a job for my mill =)
[07:17:26] <mrsun> tho i can never think i will get any payed for it but experience is worth a million bucks? :P
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[07:17:57] <DJ9DJ> moin
[07:33:24] <mrsun> hmm, got some kind of composite material, used for friction disks in clutches ... anyone know what type of material this is and cutting speeds to cut it? :)
[07:34:20] <mrsun> looks and feels like some kind of plastic or something with brass chips in it
[07:40:06] <mrsun> i guess its non abrasive as its inside an engine ... but dont know if its dry and outside or not, just got a thingie and some material and was asked to cut it out :P
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[07:47:21] <mrsun> aparently named "cosid 236" ... found the material but the composition i cant find :/
[07:47:42] <jymmm> asbestos
[07:48:37] <mrsun> jymmm, aparently supposed to be asbestos free
[07:48:45] <jymmm> ah
[07:48:56] <mrsun> but cant find references to that either
[07:49:05] <mrsun> just going after the information i got from the guy who wanted it
[07:49:12] <mrsun> if its asbestos in it he will get it back .... :P
[07:50:43] <mrsun> but very very little information about the material on their page
[07:51:01] <jymmm> search for it + 'msds'
[07:51:52] <mrsun> jymmm, what is that? :)
[07:52:09] <jymmm> MSDS == Material Data Safety Sheet
[07:52:24] <mrsun> cant find anything
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[07:59:51] <mrsun> and cant get hold of the swedish distributor aparently
[08:02:53] <mrsun> and if its abrasive i cant cut it anyways .... :/
[08:03:02] <mrsun> but no information .. whatsoever
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[08:05:15] <mrsun> http://www.bilbromsar.se/teknisk/cosid110.htm <-- if i could find something like that for tihs material
[08:06:02] <mrsun> http://www.bilbromsar.se/teknisk/cosid236.htm hah! :P
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[08:24:43] <mrsun> me haxos :P
[08:24:48] <mrsun> replaces 110 with 236 and voila :P
[08:28:15] <jymmm> lol
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[14:04:16] <jymmm> Um... "liquid steel resin" and "electrical insulator" http://jbweld.net/products/jbweld.php
[14:06:48] <syyl> its realy not conductive
[14:06:54] <syyl> too much resin between the steel
[14:06:57] <jymmm> Nice... "cures under water and safe for use with potable water" http://jbweld.net/products/water.php
[14:07:16] <jymmm> syyl: Well, they "say" steel, which to be is a conductor =)
[14:07:23] <jymmm> s/be/me/
[14:07:29] <syyl> buts its no single massive block of steel
[14:07:52] <jymmm> Neither is graphite powder, but it WILL conduct =)
[14:08:11] <jymmm> it excess of 15A too =)
[14:08:25] <jymmm> bah s/it/in/
[14:08:53] <syyl> trying to split a hair, ha?
[14:08:55] <syyl> :P
[14:08:56] * Tom_itx wonders what jymmm does all day
[14:08:57] <jymmm> Though, I dont think I have ever seen "Water Weld" on the shelfs before.
[14:09:26] <syyl> almost any two component resin harenes without air/under water
[14:09:28] <jymmm> Tom_itx: The same thing we do every night Pinky, TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!"
[14:09:41] <Tom_itx> been there, done that
[14:09:56] <jymmm> syyl: Nuh uh, try on a oil pan
[14:10:06] <Tom_itx> i returned it once i saw the shape it was in
[14:10:12] <jymmm> lol
[14:10:27] <jymmm> Hello Mars? I'd like to make a reservation
[14:10:29] <syyl> it will not stick to oil, right
[14:10:34] <syyl> Oo
[14:11:11] <jymmm> syyl: Most thing util cured don't like liquids of any kind.
[14:11:16] <jymmm> until
[14:11:51] <jymmm> well, dried at least.
[14:13:21] <jymmm> syyl: Well, except for gorilla glue, but that's a polymer based glue and uses water as the catalyst.
[14:17:38] <jymmm> syyl: And splitting hairs? No. But I suspect the word "steel" in this context is more of a marketing thing. Even if it's 1% steel flakes in it, that still makes it a conductor, or at the very least a resistor and if you were to use it around high voltage could cause some damage.
[14:18:12] <syyl> hold a magnet nearby
[14:19:17] <jymmm> the tubes are stee, but I wonder if the putty is the same stuff. Then the magnet would be a good test.
[14:19:43] <syyl> one of both components IS magnetic
[14:19:46] <syyl> try it
[14:20:09] <jymmm> syyl: oh, you have ALREADY tried the magnet on it?
[14:20:10] <syyl> ah, never worked with it, but taking a great talk?
[14:20:16] <syyl> yes for gods sake
[14:20:32] <jymmm> and?
[14:21:08] <syyl> magnetic?!
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[14:21:51] <jymmm> Ok, then how can it be an "electrical insulator"?
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[14:23:49] <jymmm> syyl: Did you try the magnet once cured or in liquid state? If it has iron oxide, then that might get depleted in the curing stage.
[14:24:09] <syyl> works on both
[14:24:11] <Loetmichel> because every steel flake gets covered with polymer. conducting polymer glues are only conducting above a certain conductor/polymer ratio.
[14:24:23] <syyl> its not as magnetic as a massive chunk of mild steel
[14:24:25] <syyl> but it is
[14:24:37] <jymmm> syyl: I understand
[14:25:11] <syyl> i like that stuff pretty much
[14:25:13] <jymmm> Loetmichel: But how can each steel flake get covered? Does it get wrapped by a nanny?
[14:25:25] <syyl> you mix it?!
[14:25:46] <syyl> you never worked with a 2 component resin, didnt you? :D
[14:25:54] <jymmm> syyl: But that doens't gurantee 100% coverage
[14:26:18] <jymmm> ppl get lazy and dont always mix as well as they should
[14:26:29] <Tom_itx> and get lazy results
[14:26:32] <syyl> then its their fault
[14:26:36] <Loetmichel> surface tension. it conducts only if there is to less polymer to cover each flake completely
[14:27:10] <jymmm> Loetmichel: never considered that
[14:29:50] <Loetmichel> hmmm... ircing over androidvnc frok a 5" smartphone is a bit less than comfortable...
[14:30:01] <jymmm> I can just see jbweld being used to repair a terminal block on an old furnace and you wouldn't want it to conduct
[14:30:21] <jymmm> Loetmichel: 5" diagonal?
[14:30:47] <syyl> get a new terminal block
[14:31:15] <jymmm> syyl: Why, "it's just a crack" and unavailable from the mfg for 6 weeks
[14:31:19] <Loetmichel> jbweld hasnt enough / no conductors in it
[14:31:47] <Loetmichel> yes. dell streak 5
[14:31:49] <syyl> I would take no chances with electric stuff
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[14:32:35] <jymmm> Loetmichel: heh
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[14:35:12] <jymmm> syyl: Scroll down to "J-B Kwik"... http://jbweld.net/products/uses.php Furnaces AND electrical plugs =)
[14:35:38] <syyl> go for it :)
[14:35:45] <syyl> i will not stop you
[14:36:07] <jymmm> syyl: I'm just questioning what they say is all.
[14:36:40] <syyl> common sense just tells me, that I will not repair a 50ct part with glue
[14:36:41] <syyl> :P
[14:36:46] <syyl> *electric part
[14:37:31] <jymmm> They've been arounf for a LONG time, so you know the product works, just the marketing copy brings up the question for the use of steel and still call itself an electrical insulator is all.
[14:37:54] <jymmm> syyl: Shit, there is no such thing as a 50¢ part these days.
[14:38:10] <jymmm> =)
[14:38:19] <syyl> maybe in your world :P
[14:38:46] <jymmm> Did you forget the $9 shipping?
[14:39:02] <syyl> you know what? :D
[14:39:13] <syyl> i go to my shop and do something usefull
[14:39:22] <jymmm> buh bye!
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[15:09:31] <jdhNC> one of my ACBs seems to be missing a ball.
[15:09:37] <alex4nder-> hey
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[15:11:16] <Connor> jdhNC: Really? That's not good.
[15:11:46] <jdhNC> more of a pain in the ass
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[15:12:14] <Connor> You get ACB for the floating end ?
[15:13:36] <jdhNC> yep
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[15:13:54] <Connor> use the one with missing bearing on that side.. should make it easier to change it out.
[15:14:03] <Connor> err. missing ball
[15:14:04] <jdhNC> yep
[15:14:26] <Connor> it's not lead bearing anyway. heck, you don't even need a bearing for it.
[15:15:07] <jdhNC> I want a little tension on the screw
[15:15:29] <Connor> then it's not floating.
[15:15:55] <Connor> the idea with floating is it allows it to grow/shrink with temp change and not warp or put undo stress on anything
[15:16:09] <jdhNC> if it floats, the ACB does nothing
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[15:16:31] <Connor> yup, that's my point. :) a standard Roller Bearing would be fine for that side.
[15:16:34] <jdhNC> half of it anyway
[15:17:01] <Connor> just to keep it from rubbing on the clearance hole.
[15:17:32] <jdhNC> what did you do with the way cover bracket in the back?
[15:17:44] <Connor> removed it for now.
[15:18:19] <jdhNC> this vise eats a lot of Y travel
[15:18:33] <Connor> I want to do one of those metal way covers that hooks at the top of the saddle, and to the bottom of the existing way cover.
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[15:20:23] <Connor> yea, I have the same issue. You have a few options. cut the back flange off, or use the front slot instead, with clamps on the back slot holding down the flange.
[15:21:24] <Connor> the OTHER solution is to add those spacers like Hoss did to the head and the column to give him a total of 9" or so travel on the Y.
[15:21:43] <Connor> OR, go to a 4" CNC vise.
[15:21:56] <jdhNC> seems like that would lose some rigidity
[15:22:07] <Connor> The extensions ?
[15:22:15] <jdhNC> I got a smaller 'precision' vise, need to make some clamps
[15:22:19] <jdhNC> yeah
[15:22:28] <Tom_itx> 6" kurt is the standard to live by
[15:22:38] <jdhNC> not on a little mill
[15:22:58] <Connor> Tom_itx: We have 5" kurt style on our mills.. they still a tad too big..
[15:23:02] <Tom_itx> buy it one, it will grow up someday
[15:23:25] <Connor> I don't have any room for anything bigger.
[15:23:31] <Tom_itx> what's the smallest one they make?
[15:23:40] <Connor> Kurt ?
[15:23:43] <Tom_itx> yes
[15:24:04] <Connor> No clue. These are Kurt style... I think they have it in a 4" 5" and 6"
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[15:26:38] <Connor> http://www.shars.com/products/view/69/6quot_Lock_CNC_Vise
[15:26:44] <Connor> probably would work better for us.
[15:27:09] <Connor> and damn, wasn't that much more than the 5" I got beofre.
[15:28:00] <jdhNC> taller
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[16:01:49] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/7269924844/in/photostream/lightbox/
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[16:06:20] <archivist> kit or own design?
[16:07:45] <Connor> based on the fact it's got packing peanuts on it, i would say kit.
[16:09:12] <skunkworks__> Mmmmmm packing peanuts....
[16:10:01] <Tom_itx> they should come flavored
[16:11:48] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: Just FYI... That yellow floor pad you have it on, probably has more lead than the balancing wights on your car's tires =) Does it still have that funky smell to it?
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[16:12:43] <jymmm> That's not ACME thread, is it? http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8146/7269924844_7d06a64199_o.jpg
[16:14:11] <archivist> the flexible drive is the wrong side of the bearing
[16:15:47] <jymmm> I can ignore skunkworks__ not using panduit, but something so nice and shiny, then use electrical tape on the spindle cable seems kinda tacky/ghetto.
[16:15:50] <Connor> jymmm: No, it's 1605 C7 ball screw
[16:15:59] <jymmm> Connor: ah
[16:16:10] <Connor> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/7268906768/in/photostream/lightbox/
[16:16:34] <Connor> I don't see a bearing...
[16:16:55] <Connor> They didn't use ANY bearing blocks on that...
[16:17:34] <Connor> that coupler is going to introduce backlash unless the far side has bearings and they're driving the "floating" side.
[16:17:41] <Tom_itx> yuck
[16:19:17] <archivist> I would expect a lot of whip with that method, dont go too fast
[16:22:40] <jymmm> Do the X rail mounts look too close together or is it just me?
[16:23:25] <archivist> the ones the gantry moves on? yes
[16:23:29] <jymmm> yeah
[16:23:45] <Connor> what about 4" total width ?
[16:23:52] <Connor> mine are 6"
[16:24:41] <archivist> little to stop the gantry rotating about the leadscrew position
[16:25:04] <jymmm> Mine are 9" apart (end-to-end)
[16:25:37] <Tom_itx> maybe it's me but does that aluminum look bent by the screw?
[16:25:46] <Tom_itx> where the bolts pulled it
[16:26:16] <jymmm> Tom_itx: under the table, look concaved?
[16:26:41] <Tom_itx> the rail on the left side
[16:26:55] <Tom_itx> angle or whatever it is
[16:27:05] <Connor> which picture ?
[16:27:27] <Tom_itx> the last one you posted
[16:28:03] <Connor> I thnk so.
[16:28:33] <Connor> That's the underside, so, probably doesn't matter.
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[16:30:06] <jymmm> andypugh: Join us as we "Bash a CNC Kit" http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8146/7269924844_7d06a64199_o.jpg
[16:30:33] <Connor> ScribbleJ: I hope you don't get mad at us. :)
[16:31:05] <andypugh> Z and spindle look OK
[16:31:14] <jymmm> Connor: As long as ScribbleJ gets what he wants out of it, he'll be fine.
[16:31:49] <andypugh> Cable chain is nice to have
[16:32:43] <jymmm> Just a pet peeve... Annoys me when they mix hex and philips heads.
[16:32:45] <andypugh> If it was mine I would want the X sliders further apart, but when you consider how close to the point of action of the tool, that might not be a problem.
[16:33:16] <Tom_itx> they should have a protective cover on them too
[16:33:33] <Tom_itx> not good for bearing wear
[16:33:44] <andypugh> Easy to add wings to the table to cover the slides though.
[16:34:22] <Tom_itx> i wonder how flat that extrusion is
[16:34:25] <jymmm> andypugh: hard to clean out sawdust/ swarf though
[16:35:03] <andypugh> I think that extrusion is supposed to be quite flat. It is being used for the intended purpose,
[16:35:27] <jymmm> Tom_itx: 80/20 is pretty good stuff
[16:35:29] <Tom_itx> who sells that stuff?
[16:35:31] <andypugh> Are those supports in the middle of the Y? If so, I wonder why they didn't use supported rail for the full width?
[16:36:01] <jymmm> andypugh: I think that's amirrored Y back plate and your seeing a reflection
[16:37:10] <andypugh> I don't see anything for it to be a reflection of.
[16:37:32] <jymmm> the ground in front of the yellow pad
[16:38:43] <jymmm> see the crack in the concrete in front of the yellow pad? That crack seems to be being reflected.
[16:38:57] <andypugh> Yes, I see the reflection of the wire adn the crack, and so would be able to see the "phantom supports" if they were floating in mid air in front of the machine. I think it is more likely that they are extra rail supports
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[16:39:36] <andypugh> ScribbleJ: Which kit is it? Where from?
[16:39:55] <jymmm> andypugh: I think those are 1" 1/16" wall aluminum angle for keeping dust off the rails.
[16:41:16] <Tom_itx> well it looks decent overall
[16:41:30] <ReadError> anyone anodized aluminum?
[16:41:39] <Tom_itx> danimal
[16:41:53] <Tom_itx> btw where the heck has he been?
[16:42:00] <jymmm> Haven't seen him in a while
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[16:59:40] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[16:59:54] <jymmm> As I understand it, the wattage of electrical heat items (soldering iron, toaster oven, hair dryer, heat gun, etc) is not so much it's heat output, but it's ability to recover and get back up to the intended temperature after/during usage. Does anyone have any links so I can read up on by chance?
[17:00:03] <IchGuckLive> today the new Space area has begone privat tractor to the ISS
[17:02:37] <jymmm> IchGuckLive: "That's out of this world man!"
[17:02:47] <pcw_home> jymmm: I would say its the maximum wattage (heat output) when the thermostat is on (or full on for a proportional control)
[17:03:03] <Thetawaves> jymmm, i would have to agree with you somewhat
[17:03:23] <Thetawaves> jymmm, a higher wattage output can also pump more heat through large heat sinks
[17:03:39] <Thetawaves> jymmm, say if you wanted to solder a lead directly to a battery, for instance
[17:03:56] <IchGuckLive> jymmm: on hotwire control ?
[17:04:02] <jymmm> IchGuckLive: no
[17:04:30] <pcw_home> for simple things like toasters and some hair dryers and uncontrolled soldering irons its the same (as they have no thermostat)
[17:05:11] <IchGuckLive> they are designed to load only that amount of charge
[17:05:39] <jymmm> pcw_home: Well, a 20W soldering can get to 700F, but is use it's the higher wattage one that will get back up to 700F the fastest.
[17:06:09] <Thetawaves> my 120w soldering iron definitely heats up joints near instantly
[17:06:48] <jymmm> Thetawaves: iron or gun?
[17:06:59] <Thetawaves> gun
[17:07:25] <jymmm> Yeah, the only problem with a soldering gun is they have a 20% duty cycle
[17:07:40] <jymmm> and must be cooled after 30 minutes
[17:07:43] <IchGuckLive> isent there a internel electrical feedback loop that controls the heat
[17:07:53] <syyl_ws> then get a good welding iron, it can stay on the whole day
[17:07:59] <syyl_ws> soldering not welding Oo
[17:08:05] <Thetawaves> it would appear my weller is also 120w
[17:08:30] <syyl_ws> or should i say, "get a weller"
[17:08:31] <syyl_ws> ;)
[17:08:33] <IchGuckLive> weller is the best 8hr duty no problem for 2years
[17:09:04] <jymmm> syyl_ws: if your gonna comment, keep up with the converation... we were speaking of Weller soldering GUNS, not iron.
[17:09:33] <syyl_ws> i will comment what ever i want :)
[17:09:41] <andypugh> I am not sure what they guns are for.
[17:10:17] <jymmm> andypugh: quick & hot, like PL259 coax connectors
[17:10:33] <pcw_home> Electrical work mainly too wild temperature for PCB use
[17:10:55] <pcw_home> but almost instant "on"
[17:10:58] <andypugh> I don't see what they do that a big thermostatic iron can't do a lot better.
[17:11:01] <jymmm> andypugh: They work great, just not for continous use is all.
[17:11:06] <IchGuckLive> jymmm: witch modell the 9200 serie
[17:11:37] <Thetawaves> this is amazing http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=037103474674
[17:12:30] <Thetawaves> sheet metal soldering iron
[17:14:03] <Thetawaves> am i reading this right?
[17:14:05] <Thetawaves> http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=037103079480
[17:14:10] <Thetawaves> you can use that to cut through al?
[17:15:45] <jymmm> Thetawaves: 900F cuts aluminum?
[17:15:55] <Thetawaves> 1100
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[17:16:28] <Thetawaves> not enough for al
[17:16:29] <Thetawaves> 1,221° F
[17:22:27] <jymmm> Ok, this is strange. The instructions on my (older) soldering gun say 30seconds, wait 5 minutes, and dont use longer than 30 minutes at a time
[17:24:26] <jymmm> When I spoke to cooper tools a ways back, they told me the transformer secondary is like 0.5V @ 400A and that's how they can get way with the tips they use and the reason behind the duty cycle. I guess they changes something becasue there is no longer a duty cycle mentioned in the manuals
[17:26:19] <pcw_home> I dont think when I had a soldering gun that the duty cycle was ever an issue since you normally only pull the trigger when actually soldering and usually you spend more time picking up parts and wires, positioning etc than actual soldering
[17:27:24] <pcw_home> the transformer secondary is just one turn (at least in the soldering gun I had)
[17:28:43] <jymmm> pcw_home: It was when soldering PL-259 connectors =)
[17:29:17] <pcw_home> gun gets too hot to hold?
[17:29:17] <andypugh> You know how you should never bolt through the middle of a toroidal transformer? Well, if you do ever want a few 100 amps at very low voltage, it can be a useful trick.
[17:30:00] <jymmm> pcw_home: No, the piece does as you cna't really mount it in a vise (heat sink)
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[17:30:44] <jymmm> pcw_home: so you end up using the iron longer to reheat it
[17:30:50] <jymmm> err gun
[17:32:10] <pcw_home> andypugh a bolt should be OK unless you complete the turn
[17:32:31] <jymmm> andypugh: cool =)
[17:33:11] <andypugh> Yes, that's the potential problem I was referring to. I was just saying that it isn't always not what you want.
[17:33:21] <skunkworks__> ubolt from center to outside... Seemd like a good idea at the time...
[17:33:37] * skunkworks__ didn't really do that...
[17:34:58] <jymmm> Ah, found it... "The D650 Industrial Soldering Gun is designed for intermittent use with a duty cycle of one minute power On, then four minutes Off."
[17:36:11] <pcw_home> andypugh: looks like your solder stencil encoders turned out well
[17:36:13] <pcw_home> that may well be the cheapest way to make durable encoder wheels
[17:36:14] <pcw_home> (we pay ~$120 for a 18x20" 6 mil SS stencil)
[17:37:22] <andypugh> They are looking very good so far. It looks like the AEDR detector really does need the right slot pitch, as suddenly they appear far less sensitive to spacing or alignment or surface finish.
[17:37:48] <andypugh> It could be an interesting way to make a linear encoder too.
[17:38:03] <andypugh> Though you inherit the accuracy of the stencil cutting machine.
[17:39:14] <pcw_home> yes AFAIK they have a differential photodiode array which requires a fixed pitch (or signal/noise goes down)
[17:39:29] <andypugh> I ought to get back to permanently mounting them. See you in a bit.
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[17:56:20] <jymmm> whats wrong with having an encoder on acetate?
[17:56:52] <jymmm> instead of the SS
[17:56:53] <andypugh> It's a reflective sensor.
[17:56:58] <jymmm> ah
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[19:16:01] <skunkworks__> wow - heck of a storm going through here..
[19:16:17] <jdhNC> here too, blowing 20-30kts
[19:19:10] <jdhNC> http://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/atcf_web/image_archives/2012/al022012.12052612.gif
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[19:21:16] <ScribbleJ> Aw
[19:21:23] <ScribbleJ> Ya'll were making fun of my setup and I missed it?
[19:22:00] <jdhNC> looks fine
[19:24:16] <ReadError> how much is the kit ScribbleJ?
[19:24:56] <ScribbleJ> It was about $3k, and those are supports in the middle of the Y rail.
[19:25:24] <jdhNC> $3k?
[19:25:27] <jdhNC> how big is it?
[19:25:35] <ScribbleJ> 5'x2'x... IDK, 5"
[19:26:01] <ScribbleJ> Working area, I mean. It's obviously a bit bigger than that.
[19:26:19] <skunkworks__> nice size
[19:27:34] <jdhNC> how much does it weigh?
[19:28:12] <ScribbleJ> I'd estimate about 250-300lbs.
[19:29:33] <jdhNC> are teh X rails unsupported?
[19:30:05] <ScribbleJ> I'm not sure which is supposed to be X and which is supposed to be Y. The 5' long rails are fully supported. The 2' long rails have small supports in the center, but not the full length.
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[19:30:41] <jdhNC> oh, those are attached to the rails?
[19:30:55] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/7258500836/in/photostream <- detail of long axis support.
[19:31:20] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/7268906472/in/photostream <- detail of short axis support.
[19:31:21] <jdhNC> why not those for the other axis?
[19:31:35] <ReadError> from china?
[19:31:42] <ScribbleJ> It appears to have the same thing, but only a couple inches in the middle. I dunno why not the whole length.
[19:31:48] <ScribbleJ> I guess they didn't feel it was necessary.
[19:31:52] <ScribbleJ> Yes, from china.
[19:32:10] <jdhNC> probably not. the carriage spans most of the gap between the ends and the center support
[19:32:43] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: Was the moth included?
[19:33:01] <ScribbleJ> jymmm, I paid extra for that, yea.
[19:33:03] <ScribbleJ> :P
[19:33:08] <jymmm> lol
[19:33:50] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: What is the led "control panel" suppose to be?
[19:33:54] <jdhNC> is the metal box also a water tank?
[19:34:20] <ScribbleJ> jymmm, I'm not really sure. You all might enjoy reading the instructions that came with the machine.... one moment...
[19:34:38] <ScribbleJ> http://scribblej.com/setup-help-u.pdf
[19:35:00] <ScribbleJ> jdhNC, no, I'll be using a 5gallon bucket with distilled water and a milk jug full of ice. Because I'm fancy.
[19:35:06] <ScribbleJ> Same way I cool my laser. :/
[19:35:41] <jdhNC> that whole thing is just the VFD?
[19:35:52] <jdhNC> or drives/etc?
[19:36:12] <ScribbleJ> Nah, the big silver box has all the stepper drivers in it and such. The beige box is simple a 110v->220v transformer I think.
[19:36:47] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: I love how the included a pirate copy of artcam! lol
[19:36:49] <ScribbleJ> The instructions are a riot.
[19:36:51] <ScribbleJ> YES
[19:36:54] <ScribbleJ> That made me lol!
[19:37:01] <jdhNC> looks nifty. I don't understand why the couplers are on the inside though.
[19:37:20] <ScribbleJ> Would it be more common to mount the motors further out and have the couplers outside?
[19:37:33] <jdhNC> yes
[19:37:42] <jdhNC> all the flex in the coupler will be backlash
[19:37:49] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: This thing is suppose to double as a lathe too?
[19:38:01] <jdhNC> looks like a 4th axis kit
[19:38:05] <ScribbleJ> jymmm, I think saying it works as a lathe is a stretch, but it does include a 4th axis, yes.
[19:38:22] <jymmm> lol
[19:38:25] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/7258533630/in/photostream <- 4th axis
[19:38:41] <jymmm> pdf page 4
[19:38:46] <jdhNC> can you buy that part separately?
[19:39:02] <ScribbleJ> jdhNC, I'm pretty new to this sort of thing - I'm not sure what the difference between having the couplers inside the frame or outside would be on backlash. How does that work?
[19:39:05] <syyl> is that 4th axis geared in any way?
[19:39:12] <syyl> or is that direct drive?
[19:39:21] <ScribbleJ> syyl, it appears to have a giant gearbox between the chuck and the motor, but I'm not certain.
[19:39:37] <ScribbleJ> I could probably tell by checking the docs for the step count per rev
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[19:40:20] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: they show a WATER HOSE going to the spindle
[19:40:36] <jdhNC> usally there wouuld be a bearing between the frame and the screw to keep the screw at a fixed location. The motor would be on the other side with the flex coupler.
[19:40:44] <ScribbleJ> jymmm, it is water cooled, yes.
[19:40:55] <syyl> ah ok, thanks
[19:41:02] <jdhNC> motors aren't usually supposed to be subjected to load in that direction.
[19:41:12] <syyl> for light work thats will work, i think
[19:41:23] <ScribbleJ> jdhNC, I think I understand. Perhaps that is something for me to 'upgrade' :)
[19:41:58] <jdhNC> cutting force in that direction will load the motor and squish or strech the flex coupler
[19:42:06] <ScribbleJ> Aha
[19:42:12] <ScribbleJ> yes, I get it now.
[19:42:16] <syyl> did you get that moth with the router? ;)
[19:42:30] <ScribbleJ> Sheesh, everyone's a comedian.
[19:42:45] <ScribbleJ> <jymmm> ScribbleJ: Was the moth included?
[19:42:52] <syyl> hmpf
[19:42:54] <syyl> sorry :D
[19:42:58] <ScribbleJ> :P
[19:43:18] <ScribbleJ> For the record, it was an extra recurring charge.
[19:43:23] <ScribbleJ> You might call it a small mothly fee.
[19:43:30] <jdhNC> it is a nice size. Kind of pricey for me, but sometimes that's better than spending months looking for parts and making it.
[19:43:37] <syyl> :D
[19:43:55] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: If you are going to use that aquarium pump, might I suggest you get another one and use in tendem in case one fails and you dont/see/hear/smell it failing
[19:44:00] <jdhNC> what are you going to make with it?
[19:44:07] <ScribbleJ> jdhNC, I thought the price was just about right for what I'm getting, considering I don't have to dig up a plan and source all the things. PLus the prices I've been able to find for parts are crazy... I must not be a good shopper.
[19:44:08] <jymmm> tandem
[19:44:40] <ScribbleJ> jymmm, I was thinking I'd hook up a flow sensor like on my laser so it'll cutoff if there's no water. Maybe. But yours is good advice.
[19:44:52] <jdhNC> I'd buy a ready made 4th axis like that if it wasn't too much.
[19:44:53] <syyl> you got a lot of router for your money, thats for sure
[19:45:02] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: whatever works =)
[19:45:46] <jymmm> lol "epoxy the limit switches"
[19:45:48] <jdhNC> you are in .au?
[19:45:58] <ScribbleJ> jdhNC, I'm not completely sure. I think it'll take me a fair while just to get up to speed on using it. My wife would like me to make some fancylooking furnishings for the house.
[19:46:11] <ReadError> i like how they show the pump in a drinking glass
[19:46:14] <ScribbleJ> I am not, I'm near Chicago, USA.
[19:46:20] <ScribbleJ> The documentation is /awesome/.
[19:46:21] <ScribbleJ> Heh
[19:46:42] <jdhNC> got a url or anything for the A?
[19:46:46] <jymmm> Chicago?! That's a foreign country!!!
[19:47:03] <ScribbleJ> jdhNC, I was looking on the ebay to see if I could find the 4th axis on its own, but I wasnt able to find the same one - just many other similar ones.
[19:47:13] <ScribbleJ> I think if you just search ebay for 4th axis you'll do as well as I could.
[19:47:25] <jymmm> A axis ratio is 1:100
[19:47:37] <syyl> uh
[19:47:40] <syyl> what?
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[19:47:54] <syyl> there must be a harmonic drive hidden in the inside
[19:47:57] <ScribbleJ> That some serious gearing there.
[19:48:06] <ReadError> ScribbleJ
[19:48:10] <ReadError> whats the site you ordered from
[19:48:10] <andypugh> The 4th axis looks Like it could be improved with some bearings/sleeves just behind the chuck.
[19:48:27] <jdhNC> all of it looks like it could use some bearings
[19:48:36] <ScribbleJ> syyl, it does have the words 'harmonic reducer' in the 4th axis advertisement - I'll admit to not knowing what that means.
[19:48:47] <ScribbleJ> ReadError, ebay! :) Hang on, I'll link you to it.
[19:49:02] <ScribbleJ> http://www.ebay.com/itm/60-inch-4-axis-cnc-router-engraving-milling-machines-/160767400390?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256e7bd9c6
[19:49:13] <andypugh> I think there are a lot of us might be tempted by that 4th axis just for the harmonic reducer..
[19:49:24] <syyl> yeah :D
[19:49:31] <ReadError> lol you built a cat tunnel>
[19:49:33] <ScribbleJ> Can I just ask wikipedia what that is?
[19:49:39] <jdhNC> probably
[19:49:42] <syyl> i used a harmonic drive for my own 4th axis, its great
[19:49:49] <ScribbleJ> ReadError, yea... making some nice brackets to hang the cat path instead is a project for the router I think.
[19:50:03] <syyl> its a backlash free gearing with very hight gear ratio
[19:50:09] <syyl> short version :D
[19:50:18] <ScribbleJ> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_drive ?
[19:50:25] <andypugh> Interesting that the 4th axis in the eBay ad has more metal behind the chuck. It might just be further onto the thaft.
[19:50:26] <syyl> right
[19:51:21] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/harmonic_1.jpg
[19:51:30] <syyl> and thats how such a thing looks in real live
[19:51:34] <syyl> mine has 1:50 ratio
[19:51:37] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: Well, if nothign else you can either make bats or toothpicks with it =)
[19:51:41] <ScribbleJ> Thank you, I was wondering.
[19:52:09] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/harmonic_2.jpg
[19:52:11] <andypugh> You would easily spend more than that price on parts, I reckon. And the time.
[19:52:32] <ScribbleJ> That's fascinating, syyl.
[19:52:50] <syyl> the massive ring is stationary, the thing with the grubscrew is the incoming coupling
[19:52:51] <ScribbleJ> andypugh, that's how I justified buying it.
[19:53:01] <syyl> and the "cup" on the other side is the outputshaft
[19:54:23] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: "Look Honey, I spent thousands of dollar and made a toothpick for you! Isn't that awesome?!" lol
[19:54:36] <ScribbleJ> yea... you joke...
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[19:54:52] <ScribbleJ> It seems likeley that something that's more or less that will happen in my immediate future.
[19:54:56] <ScribbleJ> heh
[19:55:12] <ReadError> do the cats like the tunnel ?
[19:55:33] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: Nah, you'll have fun with it =)
[19:55:36] <ScribbleJ> They love it, ReadError ... one of them has spent nearly all day out there every day since we put it up.
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[19:56:37] <ScribbleJ> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB60taosDi4 And he got to meet the neighbor cat.
[20:00:34] <FinboySlick> On the topic of harmonic drives. A canadian company here makes zero backlash wobble gears for things like telescope bases and what not. They have quite a bit of engagement so I'm thinking they might be good for rotary axis... Not sure how much they'd vibrate though.
[20:03:16] <skunkworks__> our neighbor love our cats - we where thinking of core drilling from basement to basement...
[20:03:38] <jdhNC> our neighbors kids love one of ours. He's not so friendly with anyone else though
[20:03:48] <syyl> that would be unique, skunkworks__ ;)
[20:04:23] <skunkworks__> then push a 10 inch pvc pipe in or something.
[20:04:28] <skunkworks__> (we have big cats)
[20:05:08] <syyl> if the pipe is not wide enough you could help out with a blast of compressed air..
[20:05:14] <ScribbleJ> hahaha
[20:05:16] <ScribbleJ> cat cannon
[20:05:23] <ScribbleJ> Sheesh
[20:05:25] <skunkworks__> http://electronicsam.com/images/house/Wifeandhowie.JPG
[20:05:29] <ScribbleJ> I shouldn't laugh, I'm going to hell.
[20:06:27] <FinboySlick> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwrl6bWfvrc Something like this?
[20:06:53] <ScribbleJ> Are you kidding me?
[20:07:09] <syyl> kitten ;)
[20:07:22] <ScribbleJ> WUT
[20:07:26] <FinboySlick> Poor little kitty.
[20:07:31] <ScribbleJ> Aw
[20:07:37] <syyl> better than beeing stuck in the pipe :\
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[20:07:40] <ScribbleJ> They are all scaring it... but that is pretty funny.
[20:07:52] <FinboySlick> Fffftomp!
[20:08:10] <ScribbleJ> That sound was so perfect I almost wonder if it was fake.
[20:08:10] <ScribbleJ> Heh
[20:08:28] <andypugh> I am going to be watching cute kitten videos all night now. :-)
[20:09:08] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Cats have definitely taken over the internet.
[20:09:22] <FinboySlick> From an evolutionary perspective, they might be scoring big time there.
[20:09:30] <ScribbleJ> absolutely.
[20:09:54] <FinboySlick> Elvis only exists in one spot on the internet.
[20:09:55] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/6390592859/in/set-72157629199693374
[20:10:01] <andypugh> I have been saying for years now that cats have carved out an evoliutionaty niche by being so cute as babies that people feed them, and then carry on.
[20:10:37] <ScribbleJ> The only thing I'd add to your theory, andypugh, is to note that we have made them cute - generally speaking we're the ones that have bred them and selected these features.
[20:10:53] <jymmm> Does any place carry fiberglass insulated hookup wire OFF-THE-SHELF?
[20:11:09] <FinboySlick> http://squal.net/elvis.jpg This is mine pulling a Zoolander BlueSteel look.
[20:11:19] <ScribbleJ> Russian Blue!
[20:11:22] <ScribbleJ> Very pretty.
[20:11:28] <FinboySlick> He's a beast.
[20:11:39] <syyl> but pretty
[20:11:40] <syyl> :D
[20:11:57] <andypugh> jymmm: Even if I found somewhere, it would be no help.
[20:12:01] <jdhNC> wouldn't on-the-shelf be better?
[20:12:10] <archivist> there is something about geeks and kitties
[20:12:38] <jymmm> andypugh: I meant like appliance supply, HVAC supply, or some other supply I havne't thought of
[20:12:52] <ScribbleJ> archivist, we share certain qualities in common, like being hated by some, preferring to sleep 23 hours a day, eating catfood... er, ... maybe that's just me.
[20:12:57] <FinboySlick> They're perfect geek pets. They aren't very demanding for attention, yet they give it readily.
[20:13:12] <ScribbleJ> Oh yeah, those things FinboySlick said sound better. Can I change my answer?
[20:13:16] <jdhNC> err.. there are geeks here?
[20:13:36] <andypugh> Maybe he means Greeks?
[20:13:43] * archivist puts a mirror up for jdhNC to see
[20:13:44] <syyl> the shop cat of a friend is very demanding for attention
[20:13:58] <syyl> no chance to work when it wants attention
[20:14:08] <FinboySlick> andypugh: There can't be Greeks here, they sold their internets to Goldman Sachs.
[20:14:18] <syyl> the cat oversounds even the haas cnc lathe
[20:15:00] <FinboySlick> syyl: Mine jumps. If you don't catch, he clings.
[20:15:18] <FinboySlick> And he's well over 15 pounds.
[20:15:22] <syyl> ah, used to do that to
[20:15:22] <FinboySlick> So you catch.
[20:15:23] <ScribbleJ> hahaha, I have one that will randomly decide to climb me. And he's the fat one, yes.
[20:15:29] <ScribbleJ> But he climbs my back.
[20:15:39] <syyl> our cat, not me
[20:16:29] <FinboySlick> Mine knows that his spot is the shoulder so it's not really climbing. It's feels more like go straight for the jugular.
[20:16:34] <Tom_itx> ScribbleJ, 5' x 2' that's a pretty good table
[20:16:41] <Tom_itx> just catching up...
[20:16:44] <ScribbleJ> Thanks, Tom.
[20:17:13] <Tom_itx> if i were to make one it would probably be similar
[20:17:54] <Tom_itx> where was your link again..
[20:18:02] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Are you sure he isn't a parrot?
[20:18:22] <FinboySlick> andypugh: You're casting doubt in my mind. He's very talkative.
[20:18:28] <Tom_itx> ahh i think i found it
[20:18:31] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/ <- my flickr, or the ebay -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/60-inch-4-axis-cnc-router-engraving-milling-machines-/160767400390?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256e7bd9c6
[20:18:45] <jdhNC> with that much space, I'd get a bridgeport
[20:19:07] <ScribbleJ> Or the docs? http://scribblej.com/setup-help-u.pdf
[20:19:22] <Tom_itx> i'm not looking for a router or engraver though
[20:19:34] <archivist> this bugger decided to climb my leg hence camera shake, claws http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2004/2004_12_02_rutland/PC020389.JPG
[20:20:26] <ScribbleJ> Ouch
[20:21:06] <andypugh> Let me guess, it came from China with a pirate copy of Mach3?
[20:21:10] <FinboySlick> It's got four eyes! Kill it with fire!
[20:21:16] <ScribbleJ> andypugh, mach3 AND artcam! haaaa
[20:21:36] <ScribbleJ> I was going to try them but I couldn't make Windows work. Story of my life.
[20:21:39] <syyl> full test version, ha? :D
[20:21:57] <Tom_itx> ScribbleJ is that a gear reduction box on their rotary axis or do you know?
[20:22:11] <ScribbleJ> Tom_itx, we determined it's a 1:100 harmonic drive
[20:22:18] <Tom_itx> oh
[20:22:27] <Tom_itx> that must turn really slow then
[20:22:37] <ScribbleJ> Well, it's no lathe.
[20:22:43] <Tom_itx> i know
[20:23:08] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Remember that 'ball worm gear' link you pasted a while back?
[20:23:15] <ScribbleJ> I haven't run any of it yet - actually, I have to configure linuxcnc and go hook up the box and test things as soon as I get off my lazy ass.
[20:25:31] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: http://www.epiclol.com/cdn/pictures/2012/04/they-had-a-lazy-ass-_1334480806_epiclolcom.jpg
[20:28:47] <FinboySlick> Here, found it: http://www.ikona.ca/technologies_tooth.shtml (the canadian wobble gear)
[20:32:32] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Aye, I do recall it.
[20:32:54] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Been trying to model your idea of having more than one ball engage the gear...
[20:33:00] <FinboySlick> It's a bit trickier than I thought.
[20:33:16] <andypugh> Yes, thought it might be :-)
[20:33:50] <andypugh> I think you would need to model it programmatically.
[20:34:00] <andypugh> (ie, writing macros in the CAD)
[20:34:41] <andypugh> Juat been to the garage at the end of the road, as today is definitely a day for beer. They had the Old Speckled Hen in the fridge! So I need to wait for it to warm up a bit.
[20:34:47] <ScribbleJ> jymmm, haaa
[20:34:47] <FinboySlick> andypugh: I can also feed it math f(t) curve information. Not sure if it will work in 3d though.
[20:35:04] <ScribbleJ> Hrmmmm
[20:35:17] <syyl> andypugh, the beer is a great idea
[20:35:21] <ScribbleJ> Any of you care to take a stab at how I'm supposed to configure my spindle in linuxcnc?
[20:35:23] <syyl> i think
[20:35:33] <syyl> i have to step down in the workshop and get one..
[20:35:40] <andypugh> ScribbleJ: I guess it runs from a VFD?
[20:36:05] <andypugh> And you are running direct from Parport?
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[20:36:28] <ScribbleJ> parport into the control box, which is a little bit of mystery so far, but I know I have to PWM a line to control the spindle speed.
[20:36:37] <andypugh> I assume that the Mach3 config just runs the spindle at constant speed / manual control?
[20:36:51] <ScribbleJ> The docs tell me it's pin 16/17, I'm just not 100% sure what each pin does.
[20:36:51] <ScribbleJ> heh
[20:36:55] <andypugh> Ah, OK, so there is a PWM filter, that's nice.
[20:37:51] <skunkworks__> it is like 10hz pwm or something like that from mach..
[20:38:26] <ScribbleJ> They show the mach setup, and it seems to call pin 16/17 step and dir, but that can't be right.
[20:38:32] <ScribbleJ> It's also in chinese, so what do i know?
[20:40:20] <andypugh> It might be right. Mach3 might use a stepgen as PWM. I don't know.
[20:40:40] <andypugh> Well, it wouldn't be PWM, but frequency-votage.
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[20:42:05] <ScribbleJ> Well, I guess it can't hurt to much for me to experiment to figure out what is right.
[20:42:07] <ScribbleJ> too
[20:42:16] <andypugh> At a guess, PWM on 16 and Spindle Enable on 17.
[20:42:33] <ScribbleJ> I'll buy that.
[20:48:55] <pcw_home> I though 16 was the charge pump on G540
[20:50:35] <syyl> hrm
[20:50:36] <syyl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsrNLHHidlU
[20:50:53] <syyl> 0:25 that myford looks like it wants to jump of the table every moment :D
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[21:40:44] <ScribbleJ> Well, I just tested X/Y/Z and they all move quite nicely.
[21:41:29] <ScribbleJ> I dunno what's a good speed, I tested up to 30mm/s fine though, I think I need to play with accel values a little... and when I jog 'continuous' it doesn't go > about a few tens of mm, is that normal?
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[21:43:36] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/VW93b.jpg
[21:43:42] <r00t4rd3d> finally my z axis is complete
[21:44:00] <r00t4rd3d> all but the lead screw connection but i have the part made just need to screw it together
[21:44:33] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError
[21:44:35] <ScribbleJ> I like it!
[21:45:06] <r00t4rd3d> ty :D
[21:45:25] <ScribbleJ> I built a wooden CNC once
[21:45:39] <ScribbleJ> With wooden drive shafts and wooden bearings, even a wooden controller.
[21:45:41] <ScribbleJ> Only one problem
[21:45:44] <ScribbleJ> It wooden work.
[21:45:56] <r00t4rd3d> harhar
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[21:47:36] <r00t4rd3d> mine will lumber along
[21:47:46] <ScribbleJ> Haaa
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[21:49:10] <r00t4rd3d> hopefully
[21:49:52] <r00t4rd3d> next i have to do cable chains and limit switches
[21:51:37] <r00t4rd3d> which i already have :)
[21:52:13] <jdhNC> send me come cable stuff
[21:52:30] <r00t4rd3d> i got some from chinaman on ebay
[21:53:07] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/110739289334?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[21:53:16] <r00t4rd3d> 40" for 7 bucks
[21:53:35] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/120904946859?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[21:53:47] <r00t4rd3d> matching end connectors, 3 a piece
[21:56:30] <jdhNC> cool
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[22:03:10] <jdhNC> http://www.ebay.com/itm/110827172064
[22:03:21] <jdhNC> wonder if that would work ok for limit switches
[22:04:01] <ScribbleJ> It looks lik,e what my laser has on it
[22:04:10] <ScribbleJ> It just acts like a switch, right?
[22:04:13] <ScribbleJ> hould be fine.
[22:04:20] <ScribbleJ> We use hall effect stops on our repraps too.
[22:04:54] <ScribbleJ> Oh, that's not hall, it's inductance?
[22:04:59] <jdhNC> looks like it.
[22:07:57] <r00t4rd3d> i got these limit switches
[22:07:57] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/160769295252?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[22:19:41] <ScribbleJ> Those look like some quality microswitches.
[22:20:00] <ScribbleJ> I have a bag of like 100 I got for about $30, they are total garbage, but I guess useable.
[22:30:32] <jymmm> garbage?
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[22:31:17] <syyl> some machining pictures?
[22:31:18] <syyl> http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=7183.0
[22:31:18] <syyl> :D
[22:32:43] <andypugh> syyl: Your toys are too nice.
[22:32:53] <syyl> not my own :D
[22:33:00] <Tom_itx> aww
[22:33:08] <Tom_itx> and i thought you were showing off
[22:33:24] <syyl> thats what i have to work with on my job :D
[22:35:07] <Tom_itx> not sure i care for the magnetic vise
[22:35:35] <Tom_itx> i suppose it comes in handy
[22:35:43] <syyl> on the grinder? you bet :D
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[22:36:48] <jymmm> BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG Joooooooooooooooohn
[22:37:13] <jthornton> LOL
[22:37:31] <jymmm> jthornton: So whats on the grill/smoker?
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[22:39:37] <Tom_itx> syyl what size spindles are those? cat40?
[22:39:47] <syyl> iso40
[22:39:48] <jthornton> spammers are getting grilled atm
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[22:39:59] <syyl> i think thats the same as cat40?
[22:40:08] <jymmm> jthornton: Spam in a Can?
[22:40:47] <Tom_itx> probably
[22:41:04] <andypugh> jthornton: Someone on the dev channel just noticed that #<_x> gives relative position, but the docs say absolute position.
[22:41:57] <jthornton> ok thanks andypugh
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[23:32:40] <Tom_itx> can't figure out why everything seems backwards on this thing now
[23:35:21] <andypugh> Are you stood on your head?
[23:35:34] <Tom_itx> apparently
[23:35:54] <Tom_itx> i had it all working once now with the new drivers even the limit switches appear backwards
[23:36:07] <Tom_itx> and the pendant isn't working right
[23:36:16] <Tom_itx> gotta be something simple
[23:36:47] <andypugh> Ground wire dropped off?
[23:37:05] <Tom_itx> nothing like that
[23:37:57] <Tom_itx> facing the machine, +X moves the table to the left?
[23:38:04] <Tom_itx> just checking...
[23:39:23] <Tom_itx> ok, i'm taking all my notes back out with me this time
[23:41:37] <andypugh> Typically +X moves the _tool_ to the right. So that is table left, yes
[23:42:28] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: always thing of the tool moving not the table
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[23:44:43] <atom1> i can never keep that straight for some reason
[23:45:00] <atom1> but i sure can't figure yet why everything seems backwards
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[23:46:03] <jdhNC> perhaps everything is backwards
[23:46:16] <atom1> well it wasn't last time i tested it
[23:46:27] <atom1> i may hook up the other driver just to see
[23:46:29] <jdhNC> swapped a phase on the steppers?
[23:46:45] <atom1> no none of the wiring has changed
[23:46:55] <atom1> i did swap out the psu and drivers is all
[23:47:05] <atom1> (nothing major)
[23:47:07] <atom1> :)
[23:47:38] <andypugh> Mains plug in upside down :-)
[23:48:00] <atom1> that's it!!
[23:49:13] <andypugh> Do the new drivers have opto-inputs, and are now actually 0v for Opto-On? That would switch the DIR pins, but the steps would still work (possibly better)
[23:49:28] <atom1> ok, pendant is working.. the leds on the mesa card are blinking like they're supposed to
[23:49:46] <atom1> andypugh, they're 203v's
[23:50:21] <atom1> but i had them working on the bench with a spare set of steppers wired the same
[23:50:35] <atom1> (the old steppers off the machine)
[23:50:47] <atom1> and i've used the new ones since
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[23:54:41] <atom1> ok, right now +X moves the tool left
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[23:55:12] <atom1> and +Z is down
[23:55:17] <atom1> so those are wrong
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[23:56:01] <jdhNC> easily fixed with a screwdriver or keyboard
[23:56:07] <atom1> yessir
[23:56:19] <atom1> i'm just trying to figure out what changed if i can
[23:56:43] <andypugh> If you changed the drives, they may just have a different DIR sense.
[23:56:59] <atom1> the limits are backwards though
[23:57:03] <andypugh> I don't think there is any sandard
[23:57:04] <atom1> and that is the same
[23:57:08] <atom1> probably not
[23:57:20] <atom1> i can fix it, i just can't figure out why it changed
[23:57:43] <jdhNC> someone haxq0red your box and swapped signs
[23:57:44] <andypugh> I suspect the difference is in how opto-isolators are wired.
[23:58:08] <atom1> what about the limit switches though
[23:58:26] <atom1> i just swapped the sign on SCALE to fix the axis
[23:59:28] <atom1> it's almost like it's missing 5v somewhere but i sure don't see any wires out of place