#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-23

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[00:02:58] <Aero-Tec> it work
[00:03:02] <Aero-Tec> its live
[00:03:08] <Aero-Tec> alive
[00:03:09] <Aero-Tec> lol
[00:03:18] <Aero-Tec> thanks a ton
[00:03:56] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: could have never of done this with out your help
[00:04:03] <skunkworks__> yay!
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[00:04:17] <Aero-Tec> ear to ear smile
[00:04:31] <Aero-Tec> now if I can just get the gcode to work
[00:08:46] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: does the meter seem pretty stable?
[00:10:27] <Aero-Tec> yes
[00:10:30] <skunkworks__> good
[00:10:40] <Aero-Tec> it bounces a tad
[00:10:46] <Aero-Tec> but not to bad
[00:11:26] <Aero-Tec> the RPMs bounce about 2 to 3 RPMs
[00:11:42] <skunkworks__> oh - that is pretty good
[00:11:55] <Aero-Tec> and at only 280 RPMs you see it more
[00:11:58] <skunkworks__> you can adjust the setp lowpass.0.gain 0.01 in your hal file to make it filter more or less.
[00:12:21] <Aero-Tec> cool
[00:12:39] <Aero-Tec> I really can not thank you enough for your help
[00:13:07] <Aero-Tec> this would have been a nightmare with out your help
[00:13:10] <skunkworks__> Not a problem - I hope you can figure out your gcode issue.
[00:13:44] <Aero-Tec> taken forever and I can not have the lathe down for long. use it all the time
[00:14:13] <Aero-Tec> that will not be a problem
[00:14:22] <Aero-Tec> I can deal with Gcode
[00:14:33] <Aero-Tec> will track it down
[00:15:05] <Aero-Tec> this is so cool
[00:15:18] <Aero-Tec> next will be the mill
[00:15:24] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: can I ask why you switched?
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[00:15:44] <Aero-Tec> that will not be so hard now I have a better understanding of thing
[00:15:58] <Aero-Tec> from Mach?
[00:16:02] <skunkworks__> yes
[00:16:21] <Aero-Tec> I have had mach do things
[00:16:38] <skunkworks__> ah - I have heard that.
[00:16:43] <Aero-Tec> it took off right through my part in mid production run
[00:17:02] <skunkworks__> I have never had linuxcnc do something that wasn
[00:17:06] <Aero-Tec> I had run the code like 20 time
[00:17:08] <skunkworks__> wasn't my fault.
[00:17:11] <tjb1> Sounds like my vinyl cutter with sign cut pro
[00:18:37] <Aero-Tec> in mid production run, loaded new part, hit the run botton, it was doing it right them bam, g0 move right into the part
[00:18:43] <Aero-Tec> stalled every thing
[00:18:49] <skunkworks__> yeck.
[00:19:00] <Aero-Tec> that and the lathe threading sucks
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[00:19:54] <roycroft> so if i may butt in for a moment
[00:19:54] <skunkworks__> I would like to hear your thoughts when you get to threading with linuxcnc and a single index.
[00:19:55] <Aero-Tec> the lathe part of mach in general sucks, they give no time to fix it, mill is king
[00:20:09] <roycroft> someone here has suggested that i not put ball screws on my x3
[00:20:17] <roycroft> that i should keep the acme screws
[00:20:23] <roycroft> until they wear out, at least
[00:20:39] <Valen> why? (also who?)
[00:21:00] <roycroft> if i were to consider that, i'm sure i could all but eliminate any backlash, but they certainly won't be as accurate as even low quality ball screws
[00:21:06] <roycroft> i don't recall who
[00:21:20] <roycroft> and the reason i think is primarily cost/benefit
[00:21:28] <Valen> the main reason is friction
[00:21:29] <roycroft> i've not decided either way
[00:21:38] <roycroft> an x3 is pretty small
[00:21:44] <Valen> if you anti-backlash an acme (well) your going to need alot of oomph to move it
[00:22:03] <roycroft> likely i could put much bigger motors on the thing for less money than ball screws
[00:22:10] <roycroft> that's something i'll still have to work on
[00:22:40] <roycroft> the real question is: does linuxcnc have the ability for me to map out the eccentricities of my screws and automatically compensate for that?
[00:22:45] <Valen> yes
[00:22:49] <roycroft> cool
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[00:22:51] <Valen> screwcomp i believe
[00:23:08] <roycroft> i'm still inclined to get some ball screws
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[00:23:27] <Valen> check out linearmotionbearings2008 on ebay
[00:23:37] <Valen> he sells them cut and machined really rather cheap
[00:24:01] <roycroft> machined to my specifications?
[00:24:12] <Valen> yup
[00:24:15] <roycroft> or does he have 'standard' kits?
[00:24:18] <roycroft> excellent
[00:24:19] <Valen> that too
[00:24:37] <Valen> i think we spend ~$200-300 for our (larger) mill
[00:24:40] <Valen> spent
[00:24:43] <skunkworks__> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/config/ini_config.html#_axis_lt_num_gt_section_a_id_sub_axis_section_a
[00:26:40] <roycroft> certainly good prices
[00:26:56] <Valen> yup
[00:27:11] <tjb1> Woot is doing a woot-off today if anyone is interested
[00:27:23] <Valen> we did our own anti-backlash with a pair of ballnuts and springs
[00:28:31] <Valen> but I think the antibacklash nut is probably how we will do our next one
[00:28:35] <tjb1> Here you are roycroft - http://www.ebay.com/sch/linearmotionbearings2008/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=50&_trksid=p3692
[00:30:10] <roycroft> i'm concerned that the seller cannot ship in wooden boxes and informs customers that they have to straighten the screws when they arrive
[00:30:37] <roycroft> i thought alignment was pretty critical with ball screws
[00:30:54] <tjb1> I missed that...
[00:30:59] <tjb1> and the fact they are coming from china
[00:31:15] <tjb1> Order a month in advance of when you need it
[00:31:19] <roycroft> i was considering some american-made ball screws
[00:31:28] <Valen> they are rolled screws not ground
[00:31:43] <tjb1> Yeah estimated delivery - Jun 21 - Jul 5
[00:31:49] <roycroft> cut to length, and annealed at each end to my specifications
[00:31:51] <tjb1> Unacceptable
[00:32:11] <roycroft> that time frame would be ok with me, rigth now
[00:32:13] <Valen> i hope your sitting down when you ask thk for a price
[00:32:15] <tjb1> Then if you have a problem you have another month wait
[00:32:16] <roycroft> i have enough other stuff to do
[00:32:45] <roycroft> i'm figuring about $750 for a set of three ball screws with anti-backlash nuts
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[00:33:06] <roycroft> and i'm sick at the moment, and ordered to stay off my feet
[00:33:10] <roycroft> so i'm always sitting down :)
[00:33:28] <tjb1> Im gonna have $260 in 18' of .5x.5 20 pitch 20 PA rack...
[00:33:38] <Valen> last time i looked $400 from linearmotion, was around $2000 from thk
[00:34:57] <tjb1> Any cheap gear rack suppliers? I have already looked at Moore Gear and McMaster
[00:35:25] <Valen> mcmaster has decided the rest of the planet isn't worth their time
[00:36:02] <tjb1> I don't like the fact they can't quote you on any shipping
[00:36:13] * djdelorie is wondering how hard it would be to just turn your own...
[00:36:38] <roycroft> it would be easy
[00:36:41] <roycroft> very easy
[00:36:48] <roycroft> turning them accurately is another story
[00:36:56] <djdelorie> ah, even if the screws are longer than your lathe's working length?
[00:37:07] <Valen> we have a 600 bed mill with .001mm glass scales ;->
[00:37:07] <djdelorie> they'd be no more accurate than my lathe, at least, sure.
[00:37:23] <Valen> 4th axis + grinding stone
[00:38:19] <Valen> joining them together could be challenging though lol
[00:38:22] <Valen> and hardening them
[00:39:47] <roycroft> just weld 'em up with your old stick welder and flame-harden them with a torch :)
[00:40:00] <Valen> QED!!
[00:40:15] <roycroft> a little grinding to get the welding slag off, and bob's your uncle!
[00:40:20] <djdelorie> in theory, you can turn screws longer than your lathe as long as they fit through your headstock. You just have to CAREFULLY turn each section at a time
[00:41:11] <djdelorie> assuming you have both a steady and follow rest, and enough experience to pull it off... ;-)
[00:41:28] <Valen> you know
[00:41:58] <Valen> in theory after you made the first say 10 CM you could just have a little jig with a grinding wheel on it and a ballnut
[00:42:14] <djdelorie> self-hosting :-)
[00:42:18] <Valen> wind the nut on, then use the nut to grind the thread
[00:42:26] <Valen> accuracy may be somewhat variable though
[00:43:58] <Valen> if you wanted cheap screws http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/51518718/Ball_Screw.html
[00:44:04] <Valen> shipping could be expensive though
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[00:44:46] <roycroft> here's the thing
[00:45:03] <roycroft> the mill i'm converting only weighs about 275kg
[00:45:27] <roycroft> there's really not enough mass to hold really tight tolerances in the first place
[00:46:11] <roycroft> which may be another reason to just stick with the acme screws for now
[00:48:07] <tjb1> Anyone have final input on this table design? - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/154609-4x8_-_plasma_router.html
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[00:51:10] <Valen> "Would like Mach3" instafail ;-P
[00:51:19] <tjb1> :)
[00:51:28] <tjb1> Mach3 is for dummies
[00:51:33] <tjb1> < dummy.
[00:52:12] <roycroft> i don't know about mach3 itself
[00:52:17] <roycroft> but it only runs on windows
[00:52:29] <Valen> yeah, diagonals are needed
[00:52:32] <roycroft> which would make it exceedingly difficult to deal with on a regular basis
[00:53:03] <tjb1> Diagonals where?
[00:53:08] <Valen> everywhere
[00:53:17] <tjb1> I have Lion, Ubuntu, XP, and Windows 7
[00:53:20] <Valen> imagine all the joints are hinges
[00:53:24] <Valen> now make it rigid
[00:53:28] <tjb1> Welded
[00:53:30] <roycroft> i still don't know all that much about linuxcnc, but i'm quite impressed with how fleshed-out it is
[00:53:37] <Valen> so?
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[00:54:12] <roycroft> it's not like a lot of opensource software that's skeletal and barely works
[00:54:19] <tjb1> Just little 45*?
[00:54:24] <tjb1> at every corner
[00:54:40] <roycroft> and it seems that every time i ask if linuxcnc can do something the answer is "yes"
[00:54:50] <Valen> the limiting factor on this kind of thing is acceleration
[00:55:15] <Valen> so you want to be pulling alot of Gs accelerating your head around the place
[00:55:41] <Valen> so imagine a series of rapids going along the short axis of your router
[00:55:48] <Valen> the whole thing will shake around
[00:55:48] <roycroft> yes, triangles are necessary in every plane
[00:56:06] <tjb1> Will do, any other suggestions?
[00:56:21] <Valen> not a gusset, an actual brace
[00:57:06] <roycroft> i use blue for my machine shop equipment/fixtures, and green for my welding/grinding/cutting shop fixtures :P
[00:57:07] <tjb1> A piece of the 2x2 with an actual 45 cut on it?
[00:57:09] <ReadError> ive never used mach
[00:57:12] <ReadError> <3 linuxcnc
[00:57:33] <Valen> I'd put a pair of carrages for the rails and space them 200+ mm apart to help stop twisting
[00:57:43] * ReadError is a cnc hipster
[00:57:52] <Valen> no see where you have a square, turn it into 2 triangles
[00:58:01] * roycroft pours a can of pbr on readerror's head
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[00:58:16] <ReadError> im actually drinking sam adams white ipa right now
[00:58:20] <Valen> put a piece of steel from one corner into the diagonally opposite corner
[00:58:20] <ReadError> i feel so ashamed
[00:58:21] <tjb1> Carriages for the rails?
[00:58:25] <Valen> yes
[00:58:33] <roycroft> yeah, that's pretty hoity-toity stuff
[00:58:41] <tjb1> Can you explain that
[00:58:46] <ReadError> roycroft: im gonna hit up the keg of 2hearted after
[00:58:47] <Valen> for a router I'd also beef up the gantry
[00:58:50] <roycroft> next thing you'll be making your own gourmet beer
[00:58:52] <ReadError> to balanace it out
[00:59:01] <ReadError> my 2heart clone is straight FIRE
[00:59:33] <roycroft> just grab a warm can of schlitz malt liquor if you want to balance things out
[00:59:43] <ReadError> uhmmm yea
[00:59:47] <ReadError> i have standards
[00:59:50] <Valen> http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/sia/32.2/images/guise_fig16b.jpg is what your table should look like tjb1
[00:59:57] <ReadError> I keep about 60 different beers on hand
[01:00:08] * Valen drinks XXXX
[01:00:12] <tjb1> Im not getting about the carriages
[01:00:21] <ReadError> i got this 2009 oldstock ale roycroft
[01:00:25] <ReadError> i may age it longer
[01:00:36] <Valen> slide perhaps a better word?
[01:01:42] <tjb1> supports for the CRS flat stock?
[01:01:44] <ReadError> hey roycroft
[01:01:52] <ReadError> if i got like a pallet of bigfoot
[01:01:59] <ReadError> and sat on it for 5 years
[01:02:06] <ReadError> would it be worth something?
[01:02:06] <Valen> imagine putting a bar a meter long sticking up in place of the tool doing the cutting
[01:02:14] <Valen> now grab hold of that at the top and pull
[01:02:25] <Valen> try to twist the gantry and slides into a pretzel
[01:02:30] <Valen> now stop that from happening
[01:03:08] <alex4nder-> ReadError: yoh
[01:03:51] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you around?
[01:04:11] <Tom_itx> i think gracie called him
[01:04:20] <roycroft> okeefe's extra old stock?
[01:04:26] <tjb1> Sorry Valen
[01:04:30] <tjb1> Im dumb...
[01:06:28] <Valen> ok looking at the first picture in that post
[01:06:44] <Valen> you have black things that i presume are some kind of slide?
[01:07:02] <tjb1> Yes
[01:07:37] <Valen> now imagine putting another set on 200mm further up the rail and putting the gantry in between those
[01:07:58] <tjb1> Of the black carriages?
[01:08:03] <Valen> yes
[01:08:21] <tjb1> Ill lose 16 inches of travel then
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[01:13:13] <Valen> what size is the steel tube?
[01:13:19] <tjb1> If you have a better supplier of steel I would love to know
[01:13:22] <tjb1> 2x2x1/8
[01:13:45] <tjb1> .19 an inch
[01:13:48] <roycroft> i use coyote steel here in eugene
[01:13:48] <Valen> i wouldn't use 3mm wall tube
[01:14:03] <roycroft> probably they wouldn't work out for you though
[01:14:18] <Valen> a 6M length of 2" box is ~$30 as i recall?
[01:14:39] <roycroft> sure
[01:14:41] <roycroft> a year or so ago
[01:14:53] <roycroft> more like $45 now
[01:14:57] <tjb1> the 113" piece is $23
[01:15:09] <tjb1> Well a 10 ft piece is $23
[01:15:13] <Valen> are you getting somebody else to cut it all?
[01:15:27] <tjb1> They are cutting it all to rough length
[01:15:27] <roycroft> cuts are damn expensive
[01:15:33] <Valen> thats why its expensive
[01:15:34] <tjb1> $55 cut charge on all the steel
[01:16:02] <roycroft> i wish i could handle 20' sticks, but i can't
[01:16:09] <roycroft> so i have to pay a litle more for 10' lengths
[01:16:09] <Valen> i think your getting taken for a bit of a ride
[01:16:29] <tjb1> Not that I know of
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[01:16:46] <tjb1> They are .06 cheaper per inch than other place and way cheaper than the online supplier
[01:16:49] <Valen> all the stuff in that water table could be expensive lots of steel there
[01:17:22] <Valen> steel is an old school material with old school suppliers
[01:17:34] <tjb1> Only thing I'm not touching are the 113" square tubing, all the rest will be cut ~1/8" long and I will square it all to length at school
[01:18:06] <Valen> put some grubby clothes on and rock up there asking for a bunch of steel whilst talking crap with the storeperson will probably get you 20% off lol
[01:18:15] <Valen> ever see gran torino?
[01:18:19] <tjb1> no
[01:18:35] <tjb1> The problem I have is this damn extrusion is sooo expensive
[01:18:44] <tjb1> Plus $150 shipping
[01:18:51] <Valen> ahh, it had a good part on being a "manly man" and talking to people like that
[01:18:57] <Valen> why are you using it?>
[01:19:07] <Valen> your slides seem to be running on a steel sheet anyway
[01:19:09] <tjb1> For attaching the rack and crs to
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[01:19:25] <Valen> attach them to the steel
[01:19:30] <tjb1> I know I can attach that to the steel...
[01:19:42] <tjb1> I don't want to drill all the holes in the square tubing
[01:19:47] <Valen> why not?
[01:20:00] <tjb1> They then have to match the crs perfect
[01:20:01] <Valen> take you half an hour or so
[01:20:08] <Valen> so match drill them
[01:20:36] <Valen> where are you getting this "CRS" stuff from anyway?
[01:20:38] <tjb1> Then after welding it all together...
[01:20:42] <tjb1> I can't really tweak it
[01:20:49] <tjb1> the same steel supplier
[01:20:52] <Valen> so do it last
[01:20:55] <tjb1> crs=cold rolled steel
[01:21:10] <Valen> weld your table up
[01:21:16] <Valen> sit one rail on
[01:21:24] <Valen> clamp it down get it straight
[01:21:35] <Valen> put the gantry on
[01:21:40] <Valen> get the other rail straight
[01:21:44] <Valen> (well parallel)
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[01:21:54] <Valen> then just drill through them with a hand drill
[01:22:16] <Valen> its only 44 holes in total
[01:22:26] <tjb1> Wit this way, I can adjust it over the length up and down also
[01:22:41] <Valen> called shims
[01:23:20] <Valen> as far as i can tell your spending $500 to avoid drilling 44 holes
[01:23:36] <tjb1> Also all the holes for the rack
[01:24:16] <tjb1> Are you also suggesting I don't use extrusion for the y and z axis?
[01:24:31] <Valen> yeah
[01:24:46] <Valen> the only advantage to it i see is it'll be lighter on the moving axis
[01:25:25] <tjb1> A lot easier to attach it to everything :)
[01:25:45] <Valen> I don't see that really being the case
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[01:26:16] <Valen> you asked for input
[01:26:19] <Valen> thats my input
[01:26:25] <tjb1> I don't have to drill any holes for the rack or for mounting to the carriages
[01:26:35] <Valen> its drilling a hole
[01:26:43] <Valen> decent hand drill will do that in about 15 seconds
[01:26:55] <Valen> (not battery drill, 2000W mains drill)
[01:27:25] <tjb1> and then you have no adjustment
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[01:27:29] <tjb1> besides drilling the hole bigger
[01:27:45] <Valen> you have the same adjustment that the extrusion gives you
[01:29:38] <Valen> that or just design it better ;-P
[01:29:54] <tjb1> I have infinite linear adjustment :)
[01:30:09] <tjb1> well 73" of adjustment
[01:30:16] <tjb1> you just can't do that with a hole
[01:30:22] <Valen> sure you can
[01:30:30] <Valen> just drill a new hole
[01:30:35] <Valen> but why would you even want to do that
[01:30:39] <Valen> you put the rail on
[01:30:43] <Valen> straighten it
[01:30:46] <tjb1> So when I really screw the hole up
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[01:30:47] <Valen> then do the bolt up
[01:31:08] <Valen> you have oversized holes in the rail
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[01:34:07] <tjb1> Ill see :)
[01:34:29] <alex4nder-> anyone done a new factory 80/20 order?
[01:34:46] <tjb1> Nope, only got a quote from them
[01:35:40] <alex4nder-> I think I'm going to have them kit out my mill table
[01:36:42] <tjb1> Can you buy direct through 80/20 or do you have to go through a distributor?
[01:36:55] <tjb1> Valen, share your steel distributor with me
[01:36:56] <alex4nder-> you go through their distributor
[01:37:07] <alex4nder-> distributor(s)
[01:37:14] <Valen> i'm in australia
[01:37:23] <tjb1> Well there is the problem...
[01:37:30] <tjb1> Im in the US where everything is over priced
[01:37:42] <Valen> uhh everything is overpriced here
[01:37:50] <alex4nder-> tjb1: you'll say that until you try to buy a car in Australia
[01:37:51] <Valen> visit dell .com vs dell.com.au
[01:37:55] <tjb1> Apparently not your steel :)
[01:37:56] <alex4nder-> and then you'll wish you lived in the US
[01:38:08] <Valen> the dollar is the same 1:1 but the same dell is 30-40% more expensive here
[01:38:18] <tjb1> Apple ;)
[01:38:26] <tjb1> Expensive no matter where you live
[01:38:30] <Valen> worse
[01:38:52] <tjb1> alex4nder-: have you noticed any different prices between distributors?
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[01:39:42] <alex4nder-> tjb1: I've never bought anything before.. I'm just looking at the pricing on ebay and using that as my comparison
[01:40:04] <tjb1> My experience is the distributor is quite a bit cheaper than ebay and amazon prices
[01:40:22] <alex4nder-> ah, interesting.
[01:40:24] <tjb1> But I think there are like 4 distributors in my state so if one is cheaper...
[01:40:33] <alex4nder-> I'll know soon enough.
[01:41:22] <tjb1> 1530 x 18" is 14.23
[01:41:32] <tjb1> 3030 x 73" is 93.08
[01:41:41] <tjb1> 3030 x 113" is 144.08
[01:41:44] <alex4nder-> that 1530 price is what I saw on ebay
[01:41:55] <alex4nder-> $0.85/in
[01:42:04] <Valen> turning up in store or sounding like you are in the trade will get you a decent discount as a rule
[01:42:28] <tjb1> Well all the distributors are at least 3 hours away
[01:42:47] <alex4nder-> tjb1: aren't most of these guys drop-shipping from the factory anyway?
[01:42:47] <Valen> speak to them on the phone, or send a fax
[01:42:52] <Valen> i know an actual fax
[01:43:06] <Valen> but its how they work most of the time
[01:43:08] <tjb1> alex4nder-: Yes, I was hoping to avoid the shipping by picking it up...
[01:43:19] <Valen> the average age of the people in the store is probably 50
[01:43:29] <alex4nder-> tjb1: I don't even have a distributor in my area code.
[01:43:57] <tjb1> Where do you live?
[01:44:23] <tjb1> Australia?
[01:44:25] <alex4nder-> central california
[01:44:49] <tjb1> Well there are only like 4-5 distributors in pennsylvania
[01:44:59] <tjb1> 3 are near philly
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[01:45:11] <tjb1> either 1 or 2 around pitt
[01:45:42] <tjb1> So if they are all drop shipping, I see no advantage of using the closer one over the others
[01:46:43] <alex4nder-> this table is going to be 40x26x32 outside dimensions
[01:46:58] <alex4nder-> and I'm going to have them ship it broken down
[01:47:14] <tjb1> should be pretty cheap
[01:47:20] <alex4nder-> yah, I think so
[01:47:22] <tjb1> mine is so expensive because it requires freight
[01:47:26] <alex4nder-> how big is it?
[01:47:30] <tjb1> 113" long
[01:47:40] <alex4nder-> ah jeez
[01:47:42] <alex4nder-> what is it?
[01:47:48] <tjb1> plasma table
[01:47:52] <alex4nder-> ah
[01:47:58] <tjb1> after all valen talk I think I'm gonna drop the router use :)
[01:48:06] <tjb1> maybe throw a dremel on there
[01:48:33] <alex4nder-> ok, I'm going to leave the coffee shop
[01:48:33] <alex4nder-> late
[01:48:40] <tjb1> Its my senior project for college so I don't have much time
[01:48:46] <tjb1> later
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[01:50:55] <tjb1> Valen = Van Halen?
[01:52:43] <tjb1> Guess my table could do a router with some improvements
[01:52:47] <tjb1> in the future...
[01:53:14] <tjb1> Right now its just an over engineered plasma table
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[01:55:47] <roycroft> i need a plasma table
[01:55:53] <roycroft> but first, i need room for a plasma table
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[01:56:00] <roycroft> i had been following your thread on cnczone
[01:56:08] <tjb1> Its really slow, sorry
[01:56:18] <tjb1> I was required to design it last semester :)
[01:56:48] <roycroft> well, my gf and i are figuring out how to finance a new shop for me
[01:56:57] <tjb1> You reading the one in the plasma section or router section?
[01:57:09] <roycroft> once we get that sorted out, and the shop built, i'll definitely be looking to build a plasma table
[01:57:27] <roycroft> i just use the plasma cutter by hand off the edge of my welding table
[01:57:41] <roycroft> and i suck at plasma cutting, even though it's almost impossible to suck at plasma cutting
[01:57:49] <tjb1> Ha yeah
[01:57:58] <tjb1> What kind do you have?
[01:58:10] <roycroft> everlast
[01:58:19] <roycroft> 60a
[01:58:24] <roycroft> or 50a
[01:58:26] <roycroft> i forget
[01:58:33] <tjb1> We had a hobart air force
[01:58:43] <tjb1> It sucked really bad so we returned it and got the hypertherm
[01:59:03] <roycroft> i blame the operator for the poor cutting mine does
[01:59:32] <tjb1> The hypertherm was only 200 more than the hobart and that hobart would BARELY cut 3/8
[01:59:48] <tjb1> plus it had no way to interface with a cnc
[01:59:56] <roycroft> but i'll also say, in that operator's defense, that i've cut all of about 30 running feet of metal with it
[02:00:05] <roycroft> perhaps a little experience would help :)
[02:00:08] <tjb1> Don't use it around a magnet
[02:00:14] <tjb1> I tried to use a round magnet as a template
[02:00:37] <roycroft> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/PowerPlasma-50-317-pd.html
[02:00:41] <roycroft> that's what i got
[02:01:12] <roycroft> and this
[02:01:14] <roycroft> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/PowerTig--250EX-381-pd.html
[02:01:33] <tjb1> It wrecked the electrode and nozzle
[02:01:36] <roycroft> with this
[02:01:38] <roycroft> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/PowerCool-W300-392-pd.html
[02:01:51] <roycroft> last fall's toy windfall :)
[02:02:17] <tjb1> thats really cheap for a 50amp
[02:02:24] <roycroft> i can imagine that a magnet would turn the plasma stream pretty sideways
[02:02:35] <roycroft> and do exactly what you said
[02:02:44] <roycroft> yeah, their stuff is priced really well
[02:03:14] <roycroft> the plasma cutter was pretty much an afterthought
[02:03:21] <roycroft> the tig welder is what i really needed
[02:03:28] <tjb1> Thats stupid
[02:03:40] <tjb1> That tig comes with a water cooled torch but not the water cooler...
[02:03:42] <roycroft> but i was "what the heck - it's pretty cheap, and it would be cool"
[02:04:01] <roycroft> well here's the real issue there
[02:04:08] <roycroft> yes, it comes with a water cooled torch
[02:04:29] <tjb1> Cant use it without the cooler
[02:04:32] <roycroft> but because it doesn't come with the cooler, they sell a really heavy duty water cooled torch, that can also be used without water up to 200a
[02:04:36] <roycroft> that's nice
[02:04:46] <roycroft> except now you have this big, heavy, unwieldy torch
[02:04:58] <roycroft> my plan was, and still is, to get a lighter torch to use for almost everything
[02:05:01] <tjb1> We just got this - http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Equipment/Pages/product.aspx?product=K2535-1(LincolnElectric)
[02:05:08] <roycroft> and save the bundled torch for emergencies
[02:05:59] <roycroft> i was looking at blue and red
[02:06:14] <tjb1> and this is the plasma - http://www.hypertherm.com/en/Products/Handheld_cutting/Systems/powermax45.jsp
[02:06:21] <roycroft> but their stuff is made in china these days too
[02:06:30] <roycroft> and the local dealers seeth with attitude
[02:06:38] <roycroft> i'm not going to pay extra for that attitude
[02:06:59] <tjb1> we only paid 2400 for the ready pak
[02:07:49] <tjb1> and we have a lincoln pro mig 175
[02:08:13] <roycroft> i have a lincoln 130 for mig
[02:08:16] <tjb1> which is the older version of the current 180
[02:08:33] * roycroft is not much of a weldor, but is slowly building up that set of skills
[02:08:36] <tjb1> That tig is driving me nuts trying to use it
[02:08:46] <tjb1> The torch gets sooo hot at 130 amps
[02:08:48] <roycroft> i don't have much time on mine yet
[02:08:58] <roycroft> i got mine in the fall
[02:09:05] <tjb1> ours was delivered friday
[02:09:23] <roycroft> my welding shop is about 10m away from my garage
[02:09:39] <tjb1> ours is just hobby use right now
[02:09:46] <tjb1> well we make a lot of stuff for ourselves
[02:09:55] <roycroft> in the winter that's a 10m mud puddle
[02:10:03] <roycroft> and the welding shop is not powered
[02:10:18] <roycroft> i have a 6ga extension cord i have to take out there to run my welding gear
[02:10:24] <roycroft> which, as you can imagine, is very heavy
[02:10:44] <tjb1> yeah that would suck
[02:10:54] <tjb1> this is the only thing we sell - http://www.ebay.com/itm/260914898411?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_500wt_1413
[02:10:55] <roycroft> so after a few hours of playing with the tig welder, and a couple minutes (literally) with the plasma cutter, i just packed them up for the winter
[02:11:06] <roycroft> my first spring project was to put in a gravel pathway
[02:11:33] <tjb1> I'm about to take that off ebay
[02:11:35] <roycroft> but then we had a late winter snow storm that took down seven trees in my yard, and i spent several weekends cutting wood and cleaning that up
[02:11:45] <roycroft> just last week i finished the gravel pathway
[02:11:52] <roycroft> and now i can start using the shop
[02:12:04] <roycroft> except i'm laid up for a few days due to cellulitis
[02:12:19] <tjb1> We have around 40 tons of gravel in our driveway
[02:12:28] <tjb1> nothing but mud when it rains a lot or in the winter...
[02:13:57] <roycroft> well, when we build my new shop i'll have machining, sheet metal, mechanic, woodworking, and grinding/welding all in the same building
[02:14:05] <jdhNC> I want to square a piece of 1" thick Al. Is there a ngcgui routine or something simple that will generate gcode for side milling back and forth with incremental moves?
[02:14:08] <roycroft> wiht at least 250a of power
[02:14:24] <roycroft> i'm going to try to get 3-phase brought in, if it's available here
[02:14:52] <tjb1> we also have one of these which makes it nice - http://www.rockanddirt.com/thumbnail?2000-JOHN-DEERE-260-skid-steer-loaders-wheel&db=equipdb&height=280&width=385&border=0&fname=12838/36284023_a.jpg
[02:14:58] <roycroft> the house was built in the early '50s, and does not have any grounded outlets
[02:15:01] <roycroft> and only 100a
[02:15:18] <roycroft> to upgrade the panel and the service we'd need to rewire the whole house
[02:15:28] <roycroft> so i'm going to try to get a second meter drop directly to the new shop
[02:16:04] <roycroft> yeah, that's a nice loader
[02:16:24] <roycroft> how much can it handle?
[02:17:11] <tjb1> 5k before it tips
[02:17:19] <roycroft> ok, so the bucket is a yard
[02:17:28] <roycroft> i wasn't sure, but i thought that looked like a yard bucket
[02:17:33] <tjb1> 7500 breakout
[02:18:40] <roycroft> and you can lift a bridgeport with a 12" rotary vice, a couple 6" kurt vices, and an overweight operator without breaking a sweat
[02:18:57] <tjb1> Yeah its pretty nice
[02:19:48] <tjb1> traded a 39' dump trailer for it
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[02:34:22] <ReadError> <roycroft> and you can lift a bridgeport with a 12" rotary vice, a couple 6" kurt vices, and an overweight operator without breaking a sweat
[02:34:23] <ReadError> how
[02:34:56] <jdhNC> the operator grabs the vise and lifts really hard
[02:38:52] <roycroft> with this:
[02:39:15] <roycroft> http://www.rockanddirt.com/thumbnail?2000-JOHN-DEERE-260-skid-steer-loaders-wheel&db=equipdb&height=280&width=385&border=0&fname=12838/36284023_a.jpg
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[03:52:17] <Connor_CNC> Hey guys, question about charge pump, soft estop and external estop
[03:52:48] <Connor_CNC> On my setup. I had just charge pump setup.
[03:53:33] <Connor_CNC> when you hit the F1 or ESTOP button in linuxcnc it would kill the pump as expected. I've now added a external E-Stop switch. now, I can't get the charge pump to run. I'm not sure what I've done.
[03:56:13] <jdhNC> you have estop-in set correctly?
[03:56:50] <Connor_CNC> I dunno now. I got ran stepconf gen on another config and pulled the lines out.
[03:57:12] <Connor_CNC> net estop-ext => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[03:57:16] <Connor_CNC> is what I have now.
[03:57:29] <Connor_CNC> I had net estop-out => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[03:57:30] <Connor_CNC> before
[03:57:50] <jdhNC> net estop-ext <= parport.0.pin-15-in
[03:58:05] <Connor_CNC> yup, got that.
[03:58:37] <jdhNC> net estop-ext => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[03:58:39] <Connor_CNC> net estop-out charge-pump.enable iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[03:58:39] <Connor_CNC> net charge-pump <= charge-pump.out
[03:58:52] <jdhNC> that's all mine... I don't have a charge pump on there. Just the e-stop
[03:59:15] <Connor_CNC> yea. That's the thing, I need the charge pump to kick in.. when enabled.
[04:00:02] <Connor_CNC> if the CP doesn't kick in.. then the relay is in a NO state and the only way I can keep it "UP" is to continue to hold the push-to-start button. :)
[04:00:31] <jdhNC> what sets charge-pump.out?
[04:01:13] <Connor_CNC> It's a hal component I think.
[04:01:38] <jdhNC> yeah, just wondering what causes it to come on.
[04:02:30] <jdhNC> how much did you increment your boring diam/radius each step for the Y spacer block?
[04:02:52] <jdhNC> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?About_Charge_Pumps
[04:03:15] <Connor_CNC> Good grief. I don't remember.. not much.
[04:03:20] <jdhNC> net emcOn motion.motion-enabled => charge-pump.enable
[04:03:48] <jdhNC> this boring head looks huge for this mill.
[04:04:00] <Connor_CNC> You get the 3" like mine ?\
[04:04:23] <jdhNC> I don't recall, it looks 3"ish
[04:04:46] <jdhNC> I got a 2.5" indexable face mill, it is beautiful on aluminum
[04:06:24] <Connor_CNC> how much and were from ?
[04:06:35] <jdhNC> ebay, $35ish?
[04:06:50] <jdhNC> 4 t32 inserts
[04:08:17] <jdhNC> $43, they seem to be more now.
[04:08:25] <jdhNC> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190564217487
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[04:12:58] <Connor_CNC> okay, charge pump working correctly.. now, I just need to somehow enable software based E-stop
[04:13:23] <jdhNC> net estop-out => parport.0.pin-01-out
[04:13:48] <jdhNC> net estop-out <= iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[04:13:58] <Connor_CNC> I don't need to send it to a output pin.
[04:14:55] <jdhNC> that's a light on mine. I was planning on a relay, but never did.
[04:16:42] <Connor_CNC> it's like I need a AND
[04:17:01] <jdhNC> for out, or in?
[04:17:20] <Connor_CNC> well. I dunno.
[04:17:31] <Connor_CNC> what PIN is the software button ?
[04:18:13] <Connor_CNC> that pin and the estop-ext both need to be active before CP will go active.
[04:19:00] <jdhNC> when I hooked up my external e-stop, I never had to hit the software one again
[04:19:18] <Connor_CNC> yea. I want both.
[04:19:40] <Connor_CNC> because keyboard not right at estop.
[04:20:50] <jdhNC> forgetting to home has been a pain
[04:21:15] <jdhNC> I wonder if you an put a single prox switch in the middle for X limits/home
[04:24:49] <roycroft> you need a voice-activated e-stop
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[04:25:42] <jdhNC> blood activated? screaming?
[04:26:17] <roycroft> so when you yell "OH SH*T!" it will know what to do
[04:27:05] <jdhNC> http://dx.com/p/voice-sound-sensor-module-blue-black-121523
[04:27:14] <jdhNC> I have one of those coming
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[04:29:45] <roycroft> a blood-activated one would be interesting too
[04:33:34] <Connor_CNC> OKay. I think I got it.. kinda strange... I have to push my hardware based push-to-start and while pushing that, click the power button.
[04:33:54] <Connor_CNC> Would that be considered a good thing ?
[04:34:01] <jdhNC> not for me.
[04:34:05] <jdhNC> why bother with the hw button then
[04:34:39] <Connor_CNC> HW button needed latch the charge-pump relay. because I disable the breakout board.
[04:35:06] <Connor_CNC> without the BOB, the CP can't get the charge-pump signal.
[04:35:28] <Connor_CNC> and without the signal, the relay won't flip, and thus, the the BOB won't be enabled. :)
[04:35:29] <roycroft> having to operate two buttons simultaneously is a pain
[04:35:44] <roycroft> this isn't a nuclear missile launch control system
[04:35:54] <roycroft> pressing two in the proper sequence i can see
[04:35:59] <roycroft> but simultaneously, not
[04:37:57] <jdhNC> run the charge pump relay through the estop chain instead?
[04:39:29] <Connor_CNC> that's what I'm trying to figure out how to do.
[04:39:52] <jdhNC> I meant through a physical contact
[04:39:58] <Connor_CNC> already is
[04:41:19] <jdhNC> run the chargepump pwm output via a relay contact?
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[04:42:08] <Connor_CNC> Machine locked up because of a config..
[04:43:54] <jdhNC> wow, it's late... good luck.
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[06:46:46] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:47:37] <micges> hi
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[07:04:17] <Guest75922> hi
[07:04:56] <Guest75922> can u suggest a guide 4 linux cnc
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[07:09:12] <micges> Guest75922: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/
[07:09:57] <Guest75922> thnkz
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[09:10:06] <Loetmichel> mornin
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[10:59:40] <z00z> huh? this is emc channel ? :)
[11:04:40] <Loetmichel> z00z: depends
[11:05:06] <z00z> :)
[11:05:10] <Loetmichel> if you are into CNC: yes, if you are looking for storage solutions no
[11:05:15] <z00z> heh
[11:05:30] <z00z> what about powerpath over CNC ? :)
[11:06:21] <Loetmichel> whats powerpath?
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[11:16:03] <micges> z00z: rather not
[11:19:33] <z00z> :)
[11:19:40] <z00z> J/K
[11:22:48] <micges> np
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[12:04:01] <alex_joni> Loetmichel: http://www.emc.com/storage/powerpath/powerpath.htm
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[12:33:15] <Thiel> hi folks i just compiled the new git and the config is telling me sudo make setuid what is this for
[12:34:06] <jdhNC> you have to be root to suid
[12:34:25] <jdhNC> the program has to be suid to be run by non-root users.
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[12:34:50] <Thiel> ah ok so i need to do this
[12:35:16] <jdhNC> unless you only want to run it as root or sudo and run it.
[12:35:27] <Thiel> ok
[12:36:10] <jdhNC> whether or not it is a gaping security hole is different.
[12:36:30] <Thiel> Thanks
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[12:39:07] <Loetmichel> alex_joni: ok, nothing important for linuxCNC ;-)
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[13:00:36] <alex_joni> Loetmichel: nope
[13:01:08] <alex_joni> running with sudo might not work
[13:01:31] <alex_joni> ah, Thiel left already
[13:09:12] <Loetmichel> *hrmpf* cleaning up my mess... already filled the fifth 120liters trash bag... and have a man high pile of paper/carton outside the room... was definetly time.... :-(
[13:09:25] <Loetmichel> thats a week-filling job it seems...
[13:10:04] <jdhNC> every time I do that I try to remember that you can clean up periodically and it isn't so bad.
[13:10:10] <jdhNC> but, I don't.
[13:10:35] <Loetmichel> seems familliar ;-)
[13:12:19] <alex_joni> heh
[13:12:38] <Loetmichel> ... and my wife is cutting up corrugated boxes in the living room. has already filled the second trashcan (240 l)... it seems we are ordering to much online ;-)
[13:13:26] <jdhNC> my daughter has turned in to an online-buying junkie
[13:13:34] <jdhNC> she says she got it from me though.
[13:15:02] <Loetmichel> if i wouldnt live in a rented flat i would organize a "bronx" oil barrel.. and burn the paper... but thats not allowed in germany, and germans are a bit easy with filing a complaint at the police...
[13:17:09] <Loetmichel> the "nice" thing: to get rid legally of the trash i have to drive it to the tras burning plant... for 7,5 Eur each car fill... which has oben for the public only on saturdays between 9 and 12 o'clock
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[13:17:39] <Loetmichel> ... and then tey wonder of the wild trash dumps appearing in the woods.
[13:17:43] <jdhNC> I stick the cardboard/etc. in the recycle bin and they pick it up every week
[13:18:09] <alex_joni> jthornton, JT-Shop: these look somehow cost-effective: http://www.dborerrods.com/rod_price.htm
[13:18:16] <alex_joni> the rest are all above 1500$
[13:18:50] <jdhNC> $700 for a fishing pole is cost-effective?
[13:19:40] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: right. we have two cardboard bins a 240 l ... for 4 familys... emptied by the city every four weeks...
[13:20:00] <alex_joni> well, apparently for handmade bamboo fly fishing rods it is
[13:20:05] <JT-Shop> yikes
[13:20:09] <Loetmichel> tras the same but only 2 bins 120 l and emptied weekly
[13:20:26] <Loetmichel> NEVER enough space
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[13:21:37] <jdhNC> you would really have to like to fish for that.
[13:22:32] <jdhNC> I use a ~48inch metal rod for fish.
[13:22:33] <Loetmichel> hrhr... my fishing pole is made of fibre glass and had cost 8.95 eur...
[13:22:50] <Loetmichel> ... a "dip-stick", no spindle for the line...
[13:23:14] <Loetmichel> (is that the right term?)
[13:23:14] <jdhNC> that isn't very effective in 50m water.
[13:23:44] <JT-Shop> nice looking rods for sure
[13:24:19] <Loetmichel> no, but enough to get a meal or two in the camping if a river or a sea is nearby
[13:24:44] <Loetmichel> and its not meant to do more. ;-)
[13:25:21] <Loetmichel> (to be honest i would rather use some net or something, i consider fising with a rod somewhat ineffective) :-)
[13:26:12] <jdhNC> me too.
[13:26:41] <jdhNC> I take a speargun and concentrate on stupid fish.
[13:26:52] <Loetmichel> dynamite? ;-)
[13:27:47] <jdhNC> nope, I have dove with people that used spears with powerheads. .357 or sometimes 5.56mm shells in the tip.
[13:28:50] <Loetmichel> oh... going for the BIG fish?
[13:30:45] <jdhNC> not always big, just easier to deal with if they die instantly.
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[14:06:23] <joe9> djdelorie: were you able to get the contouring operation in heeks to work? it coredumps for me.
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[14:53:19] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop what are you using for steplen and stepspace on your plasma cutter?
[14:53:24] <Tom_itx> standard numbers?
[14:53:29] <Tom_itx> 40000
[14:54:24] <Tom_itx> i tried testing with my old controller but it's step timing was way off for these drivers
[14:54:34] <jdhNC> 40000 is a long time
[14:54:38] <JT-Shop> let me look
[14:54:40] <Tom_itx> i need to put it on the scope
[14:54:44] <Tom_itx> jdhNC that is default
[14:55:34] <Tom_itx> i wanna try to get both controllers working with them
[14:55:37] <Tom_itx> if possible
[14:55:48] <Tom_itx> but i'll get linuxcnc going first
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[14:58:41] <JT-Shop> DIRSETUP = 200
[14:58:41] <JT-Shop> DIRHOLD = 200
[14:58:41] <JT-Shop> STEPLEN = 1000
[14:58:41] <JT-Shop> STEPSPACE = 2000
[14:58:53] <Tom_itx> for gecko drivers?
[15:00:43] <Tom_itx> gecko docs say they want a 50% duty square wave on step
[15:00:56] <Tom_itx> 2000 / 1000 isn't 50%
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[15:01:16] <Tom_itx> but apparently it works :)
[15:02:27] <Tom_itx> ok, off again. bbl
[15:02:33] <Tom_itx> i'll read any comments later
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[15:55:15] <djdelorie> joe9: so far, I've only used profile, pocket, and drill
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[15:55:28] <DJ9DJ> namd
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[16:59:47] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: getting it worked out?
[17:00:12] <Aero-Tec> yes
[17:00:20] <Aero-Tec> I got a new lathe
[17:00:22] <Aero-Tec> LOL
[17:00:29] <Aero-Tec> one other thing
[17:00:43] <Aero-Tec> you asked why am I moving from mach
[17:01:01] <Aero-Tec> I see mach used in all the small machines
[17:01:07] <Aero-Tec> toys mostly
[17:02:00] <Aero-Tec> but the real big ones used in industry and used every day to make things all run EMC
[17:03:37] <skunkworks> The brain washing has started Bah Ha ha ha ha... ;)
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[17:04:30] <jdhNC> if mach suits your purposes and you are happy with windows, there is no reason not to use it.
[17:04:36] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[17:05:45] <Aero-Tec> true
[17:06:10] <archivist> "your purpose" has to be a restricted set though :)
[17:06:13] <Aero-Tec> but if your needing to rely on your machine, it is not the right choice
[17:06:23] <IchGuckLive> mach is now on every china aplication so im guessing someone is gone devel it sooner
[17:06:47] <Aero-Tec> Matt is making mach4
[17:06:56] <jdhNC> still?
[17:06:58] <Aero-Tec> redoing it from the ground up
[17:07:03] <Aero-Tec> yes still
[17:07:07] <archivist> not every, we are aware of the chinese looking at linuxcnc
[17:07:17] <jdhNC> all by himself?
[17:07:32] <archivist> who else is there :)
[17:07:41] <Aero-Tec> he has some help
[17:08:00] <IchGuckLive> i got for the Foam patch for linuxcnc more then 6.000 requests
[17:08:23] <IchGuckLive> and theairfoil system is also in the 2nd tousend
[17:09:00] <Aero-Tec> mach is nice for the home hobbyist, but it is not a good option for guys that want do go some real work
[17:10:04] <Aero-Tec> I know there are guys using mach for production but I bet they would be better off using EMC
[17:10:18] <Connor> IchGuckLive: Foam Patch ?
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[17:11:10] <skunkworks> I think a lot of mach users just 'put up with it'
[17:11:15] <IchGuckLive> Connor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd4KejP1b48
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[17:11:30] <jdhNC> I've heard some people only have one computer.
[17:11:49] <skunkworks> mach4 has been hyped up so much that it will probably never live up to what people expect.
[17:12:14] <skunkworks> but - time will tell
[17:12:51] <Connor> oh. okay. because a foam cutter has 2 points to it's "Z" with the wire in between.
[17:13:43] <IchGuckLive> Connor: therfor we run 2 plane systems
[17:13:51] <Connor> got it.
[17:14:13] <IchGuckLive> Connor: i made also a quick generator tutorial
[17:14:52] <Connor> I'm not doing foam, just surprised me when I saw that EMC needed a patch to handle it..
[17:14:58] <IchGuckLive> and ofcause the airfoil generator that is able to combinate all 1500 available airwingdata
[17:15:29] <IchGuckLive> Connor: now its in the git and will find its way to master soon
[17:15:42] <Connor> I need to figure out how to get my charge-pump, external E-stop and EMC's software estop working together.
[17:16:09] <Connor> I've got it working with charge-pump + external estop, but, the software button (or F1) does nothing..
[17:16:30] <Connor> OR, I had it working were I had to hold both my push-to-start external button, and click the POWER button..
[17:16:36] <Connor> but, neither is what I want.
[17:16:50] <Connor> any ideas on what I need to look at ?
[17:17:18] <Aero-Tec> anyone see this?
[17:17:20] <IchGuckLive> did you set and reset at the same time
[17:17:26] <Aero-Tec> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7cjo4kTYMw
[17:17:33] <Connor> IchGuckLive: How do you mean ?
[17:17:55] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: yes - he is doing some pretty cool stuff
[17:18:09] <jdhNC> you didn't replace the sofware start button with the pushbutton?
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[17:18:32] <Connor> No.
[17:18:44] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: hard running axis
[17:19:04] <Connor> I have a push-to-start, or maybe that's miss labeled.. more like push-to-reset.
[17:19:32] <Connor> If the machine is E-stopped. you have to re-enable the estop, then push the button.
[17:19:42] <skunkworks> Connor: I have only done it using ladder... http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Sample_HAL_And_ClassicLadder
[17:19:55] <skunkworks> ladder example 4
[17:20:23] <skunkworks> I think there is an estop hal component - but I have not tried it.
[17:20:44] <skunkworks> with example 4 - both the software estop button and external estop work as expected.
[17:21:01] <Connor> that makes the connection on the charge pump relay, which allows the Break Out Board to be enabled, so it can send the signal to the charge pump, which then engages the relay and thus, keeps the break out board enabled, the spindle relay enabled, and the stepper drivers enabled.
[17:21:08] <IchGuckLive> Connor querry !
[17:21:20] <Connor> Looking it over.
[17:22:04] <IchGuckLive> you need to set and rset the hal at the sametime in a given order
[17:22:07] <Aero-Tec> can you imagine this machine running mach and deciding to make a full speed run in some direction or other?
[17:22:09] <Aero-Tec> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxxdq6y8z8M
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[17:23:15] <Aero-Tec> this guy has been doing CNC for a long time, and has been running EMC for over 15 years I am told
[17:23:31] <skunkworks> Connor: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/man/man9/estop_latch.9.html (I have never used it)
[17:23:58] <Connor> IchGuckLive: Not sure what your saying.. but looks like your talking about some sort of toggle?
[17:24:05] <Aero-Tec> if he can trust EMC with that machine I know I do not have to worry about EMC screwing up and taking off on it's own
[17:24:18] <Connor> skunkworks: I was thinking of of latch too.. but, couldn't find a good example of it being used.
[17:24:35] <Connor> and, I really don't want to use ladder if I can help it..
[17:24:37] <archivist> Aero-Tec, the clever thing about the cinci retrofit is the kins which fix the original machine errors on manufacture
[17:24:54] <IchGuckLive> Connor: yes there are 2 halpins for etch E-stop and Mashine on
[17:25:01] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: that is stuart in Wichita - we have had a few fests there..
[17:25:01] <Aero-Tec> I heard about that
[17:25:32] <Aero-Tec> nice machine
[17:25:32] <jdhNC> you could use a hw self-latching relay?
[17:25:37] <Aero-Tec> I would love one
[17:25:46] <IchGuckLive> emc->linuxcnc
[17:25:46] <Aero-Tec> not sure what I would do with it
[17:25:51] <Aero-Tec> but I want one
[17:25:52] <Aero-Tec> lol
[17:26:07] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: PCB 10mil
[17:26:09] <Aero-Tec> EMC is shorter
[17:26:16] <Aero-Tec> lol
[17:26:30] <Connor> jdhNC: That's what I have in a sense.. I'm just missing something on the software side of things.
[17:26:49] <Connor> EMC knows when the external estop is triggered and responds correctly.
[17:27:01] <Connor> I just need it to work with it's own internal buttons.
[17:27:02] <Aero-Tec> how about lcnc
[17:27:09] <Aero-Tec> or lxcnc
[17:27:20] <Aero-Tec> quick and short
[17:27:29] <Aero-Tec> lencnc
[17:27:47] <jymmm> Elsie
[17:28:03] <Connor> what is the pin for E-stop output and for the Power button output ?
[17:31:14] <IchGuckLive> E-STOP
[17:31:16] <IchGuckLive> • halui.estop.activate (bit, in) - pin for requesting E-Stop
[17:31:18] <IchGuckLive> • halui.estop.is-activated (bit, out) - indicates E-stop reset
[17:31:19] <IchGuckLive> • halui.estop.reset (bit, in) - pin for requesting E-Stop reset
[17:31:53] <IchGuckLive> M ACHINE
[17:31:54] <IchGuckLive> • halui.machine.is-on (bit, out) - indicates machine on
[17:31:55] <IchGuckLive> • halui.machine.off (bit, in) - pin for requesting machine off
[17:31:57] <IchGuckLive> • halui.machine.on (bit, in) - pin for requesting machine on
[17:32:34] <IchGuckLive> you need to toggle all 2 estop at the same time
[17:32:48] <Guthur> sorry, hardware related question: is the off centre weight of a gantry spindle ever much a problem
[17:32:54] <IchGuckLive> activate and reset
[17:33:01] <IchGuckLive> and at mashine the on off
[17:33:14] <djdelorie> Guthur: it is for me
[17:33:25] <Guthur> do any designs incorporate a counter balance
[17:33:45] <djdelorie> mie is balanced *if* I have the big router on it, but off-balance if I have the small air spindle.
[17:34:02] <djdelorie> so when using the air spindle, I have to be careful about Z speeds or I break bits
[17:34:16] <IchGuckLive> Connor see side 114 of the integreater manual
[17:34:44] <Guthur> djdelorie: oh i see what you mean there, I was thinking more across the Y
[17:34:49] <Guthur> if that is the right axis
[17:34:50] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2536.html - router on front, motor on back
[17:35:12] <Guthur> /across/along
[17:35:24] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2605.html - air spindle on front instead, rotates around Y if you move Z too fast
[17:35:27] <archivist> Guthur, you need a stiff enough gantry that it should not matter too much, often the gantry is not up to much
[17:36:04] <IchGuckLive> djdelorie: is this trapezional spindal or 55°
[17:36:10] <skunkworks> Connor: I think... Fault_in would be hooked to your external estop. ok_in would hooked to user-enable-out . reset would be hooked to user-request-enable and ok_out would be hooked to emc-enable-in
[17:36:12] <Guthur> archivist: i was wondering if it might be cause of the gantry ends coming out of alignment over time
[17:36:17] * djdelorie suspects that moving the two Y rails further apart, and the bearings on the Z rails, would limit rotation
[17:36:24] <djdelorie> trapezoinal?
[17:36:27] <archivist> think rotary stiffness and that is what the cutter does to the gantry
[17:36:30] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[17:37:06] <djdelorie> you mean the Z axis screw?
[17:37:50] <Connor> ok, so what is iocontrol.0.user-enable-out and motion.motion-enabled ?
[17:38:06] <IchGuckLive> djd this is mutch heavyer then a alu rooter
[17:38:10] <Connor> the motion.motion-enabled looks to be the power button...
[17:38:40] <Connor> the iocontrol.0.user-enable-out is the one I see estop using all the time.
[17:39:21] <Connor> lunch here, back in a few
[17:40:03] <skunkworks> Connor: I think the estop hal componant is doing what the rung 4 of the estop example is doing. (with a few more pins for watchdog enable and such)
[17:40:04] <Guthur> djdelorie: your first picture, http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2536.html, is a reasonably example of what i mean. It's off to one side, I was wondering if you where routing on that side for a prolonged period without a counter balance on the opposite end of the gantry that it might cause alignment issues
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[17:41:29] <djdelorie> Guther: most cnc routers are set up that way. You have to consider where the forces go if you push the router's nose in each direction (X, Y, Z) and if those forces will encouter something that gives (backlash) or bends
[17:42:11] <djdelorie> In my case, for example, if I push in the Y direction, there's very little rotation around the linear bearings, but the whole gantry will bend left/right due to the weak upright supports
[17:42:19] <archivist> I would expect the bars to flex mid travel
[17:42:38] <djdelorie> if I push in X, there's play in the Z rails so the whole thing rotates around Y
[17:42:49] <Guthur> ok, so you just live with it
[17:42:57] <djdelorie> 1" steel rails only 26" long have very little flex compared to the rest of the machine ;-)
[17:43:16] <djdelorie> Guther: This is a learning machine for me, so I'm learning from my mistakes :-)
[17:43:17] <Guthur> hehe yeah I suppose
[17:43:39] <archivist> everything bends a bit, it just scale of the bend :)
[17:43:39] <Guthur> is that a lead screw?
[17:43:40] <ScribbleJ> Surely if you have predictable backlash you can compensate for it in the gcode.
[17:43:43] <djdelorie> I will probably redo the uprights and brace at some point, once I can reliably mill them
[17:44:00] <djdelorie> the smaller steel thing between the two Y steel rails is a lead screw, yes
[17:44:12] <archivist> ScribbleJ, for some work yes other no
[17:44:29] <Guthur> what sort of bushels are you using on the rails?
[17:44:37] <archivist> ScribbleJ, no climb milling with backlash
[17:44:50] <djdelorie> ScribbleJ: the problem is, pressure from the cutter itself can also compensate for backlash, so it's tricky to know what linuxcnc needs to do
[17:45:00] <ScribbleJ> That makes sense.
[17:45:14] <djdelorie> Guther: they're linear ball bearings for X and Y, and just aluminum rod in copper pipe for Z
[17:45:17] <ScribbleJ> I'm new to milling -- waiting on my CNC router frame to arrive so I can actually begin.
[17:45:34] <djdelorie> ScribbleJ: cut first, worry about accuracy later :-)
[17:46:12] <ScribbleJ> But I've built 3D printers and written firmware for them... it's interesting how the state of CNC in 3D printing compares to this project.
[17:46:17] <archivist> cut first, learn mistakes, fix errors, rinse repeat
[17:46:26] <Guthur> djdelorie archivist : cheers for the input
[17:46:27] <ScribbleJ> That makes sense. There's a lot to learn.
[17:47:22] <archivist> I could not cut steel with my mill on first build as the column was far too flexible
[17:47:47] <djdelorie> I'm not even sure I can cut brass or aluminum, I don't have any useful chunks to play with at the moment
[17:48:38] <ScribbleJ> Are you guys using mills, or do either of you have a larger router table?
[17:48:49] <ScribbleJ> s/mills/mills exclusively/
[17:49:45] <archivist> I have turned on one of the mills and milled in a lathe, do whatever you want
[17:51:03] <Guthur> djdelorie: one more question...for now...what are you using for axis drive, servos or steppers?
[17:54:14] <archivist> Guthur, see his http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/ page for his motor drives
[17:55:43] <Guthur> archivist: cheers
[17:59:48] <djdelorie> steppers are the easy way to go, but I got the servos as surplus so I used those
[18:00:21] <ScribbleJ> That's a nice lookin machine!
[18:01:22] <archivist> some do pretty some (me ) do fugly
[18:01:41] <ScribbleJ> http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2511.html That's an interesting way to drive a timing belt.
[18:01:43] <ScribbleJ> Haaa
[18:01:49] <ScribbleJ> The one on the drill I mean.
[18:02:39] <Connor> skunkworks: you mean the estop_latch ?
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[18:03:43] <ScribbleJ> Where did you source the smooth rod and bearings for that build? That looks like some thick rod. That stuff is $$$ everywhere I look.
[18:04:07] <skunkworks> yes the estop_latch hal componant -I think- acts similar to the rung 4 of the ladder example
[18:05:04] <djdelorie> yeah, once I hooked up the nut I needed a way to move the gantry around
[18:05:19] <djdelorie> ScribbleJ: it was all surplus a friend brought over
[18:05:23] <ScribbleJ> Dang.
[18:05:27] <ScribbleJ> I need friends like that.
[18:05:28] <archivist> ScribbleJ, you could just ask for ground steel rod from your local steel supplier
[18:06:00] <djdelorie> The only thing I actually spent money on, on that project, was the electronics (even though I designed them myself, I still had to pay for parts)
[18:06:05] <djdelorie> (electronic parts, that is)
[18:06:11] <ScribbleJ> I'll look into that. I definitely need a way to source this stuff that's cheaper than going to a linear motion parts supplier.
[18:06:24] <archivist> should be cheaper than a cut length from a + profit cnc supplier
[18:06:56] <djdelorie> I've seen quite a few designs that use roller blade bearings and wood/metal with aluminum angle iron
[18:07:13] <archivist> ScribbleJ, but there are other ways depends on primary use of the machine
[18:07:46] <archivist> or just get a scrap machine and retrofit
[18:08:02] <IchGuckLive> Connor: iocontrol.0.user-enable-out is only to tell you
[18:08:30] <IchGuckLive> Connor: if soomeone has hit this button and its state
[18:08:41] <Connor> inside the gui ?
[18:09:33] <IchGuckLive> you need to read this for checking the state of your buttons to be in the right position
[18:10:17] <djdelorie> http://stevesfixitshop.blogspot.com/2012/02/linear-bearings-x-axis.html
[18:10:29] <Connor> okay, yea, so, I need IT and external estop to both be active to enable the charge pump...
[18:10:45] <IchGuckLive> Connor: look at configs SIM Axis Gladvcp manual example.hal
[18:10:58] <ScribbleJ> Ahhhh
[18:11:03] <ScribbleJ> djdelorie, that's an interesting concept!
[18:11:34] <Connor> IchGuckLive: Link ?
[18:12:33] <IchGuckLive> Connor: in your config file folder
[18:12:49] <Connor> Oh, okay, it'll be a while.. not in the shop ATM.
[18:13:37] <Connor> My original thinking was to use the and2 hal component..
[18:13:46] <Connor> estop_latch might work too..
[18:14:20] <Guthur> ScribbleJ: depending on the size of your machine MakerSlide might do
[18:14:34] <Guthur> seems a very cost effective linear bearing, I have not tried it though
[18:15:20] <Connor> I'm just not sure about the rising edge part of it..
[18:16:13] <IchGuckLive> Connorhttp://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/ladder/ladder_examples_fr.html#_external_e_stop
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[18:19:13] <skunkworks> Connor: what I said above worked here.. I setup a estop_latch hal componant. then manually set the estop_latch.0.fault-in (it would be hooked to your external estop) from false to true and the machine went into estop. could not use the program estop button until the external (estop_latch.0.fault-in) pin was set to 'false'
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[18:20:12] <Connor> skunkworks: okay, what about the "reset" pin ?
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[18:20:27] <skunkworks__> net estop-loopout iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in estop-latch.0.ok-out
[18:20:29] <skunkworks__> net estop-loopin iocontrol.0.user-enable-out estop-latch.0.ok-in
[18:20:30] <skunkworks__> net resetestop iocontrol.0.user-request-enable estop-latch.0.reset
[18:20:57] <skunkworks> (and you would have to hook estop_latch.0.fault-in to your external estop.)
[18:21:09] <Connor> it's pin 15
[18:21:26] <skunkworks> (and add the hal component and function)
[18:21:55] <Connor> okay. I'll give that a try.. That look slike my best bet.. and tie the charge-pump to the watchdog
[18:22:33] <skunkworks__> it seems to work exactly like the ladder I am using on the K&T
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[18:22:45] <skunkworks__> (I should remember that)
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[18:22:50] <Connor> I would need to invert my external estop since fault must be false ?
[18:23:14] <skunkworks> how ever so the pin would go 'true' when it was in estop
[18:23:55] <Connor> currently it's tied to +5v, and NC loop, so, e-stop condition would be floating.
[18:24:44] <Connor> okay.
[18:24:51] <Connor> I'll try that later this evening.
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[18:26:41] <Connor> After a E-stop event... I have to rest the external e-stop if that was tripped. then, push my external reset button, which allows the charge pump to latch, then, I can push the green button on my spindle to enable the spindle, because it trips it's internal latch, that has to be reset.
[18:26:48] <Connor> Which, I think is a good thing.
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[18:27:43] <jdhNC> green button should reset everything to ready-to-run condition.
[18:27:58] <jdhNC> s/green/start/
[18:28:01] <skunkworks> my estop cuts power to everything but the computer and logic supplies.
[18:28:03] <Connor> I need to re-arrange a few things for my stepper drivers, because I want those to disable if I have the power button toggle.
[18:29:00] <Connor> jdhNC: I have 2 resets, the one for the controller, and then the one built into the G0704 spindle.. as you know. If you pull AC and plug it back in, it trips it's internal latch.
[18:29:10] <skunkworks> (we have 2 2hp motors, 5hp vfd, servo supply transformer, coolant pumps..)
[18:29:21] <jdhNC> yeah, I don't like that one on the spindle
[18:29:51] <Connor> I'm pulling the red panic button off.. No need for it now.. but leaving the red/green buttons in place.
[18:30:29] <jdhNC> if the machine is ready to run, and spindle motor is in auto speed, you shouldn't have to push another button
[18:30:35] <Connor> and since we have spindle to speed detection, it's no big deal.. it will wait for the machine to reach speed..
[18:31:01] <jdhNC> that would be better anyway.
[18:31:12] <Connor> what I just said ?
[18:31:23] <Connor> When I get it all working, I'll do a video.
[18:31:24] <jdhNC> yes. I have no spindle feedback at the moment.
[18:31:41] <jdhNC> therefore I dislike having the extra spindle start button
[18:32:26] <Connor> Yea, see.. I do in my setup.. so, that's nice.. I can start the program from the keyboard, and it'll get ready.. and I can check everything on the machine.. and if all looks good, hit the spindle GO button.. and that'll start it up.
[18:32:59] <Connor> Also nice for manual tool change.. you can turn off the spindle without fear that the machine might start it up on you..
[18:33:18] <jdhNC> I need some kind of plugs for passing limits, spindle feedback etc. through the enclosure to the panel
[18:33:18] <Connor> when your done, hit the green button, click the ok button on the screen and your good to go.
[18:33:44] <Connor> I used a single DB9 to go up to my little external control box.
[18:34:26] <jdhNC> I have a 4-pin in the back on my spindle control box that has the enable/disable and analog out to the spindle control
[18:34:47] <jdhNC> I figured the spindle feedback wouldn't end up going through that box.
[18:35:21] <Connor> has push-to-reset, e-stop, +5v, +12v (switched by relay on good condition), spindle pwm, spindle dir, A, B, Z and ground (using DB9 hood)
[18:35:51] <Connor> yea, total of 10 connections. 9 pins and the ground..
[18:36:03] <skunkworks> Connor: have you tried rigid tapping?
[18:36:23] <Connor> Using a CB 4 pin for my Limits, 1 pin for each axis, 4th pin for ground or +5v which ever way I wire it.
[18:36:37] * skunkworks still giggles when he does...
[18:36:40] <Connor> skunkworks: Don't have B up yet, or spindle reverse working yet.
[18:36:49] <skunkworks> ah
[18:37:18] <jdhNC> I have a bunch of DB9's. I'll put some extra cutouts in the enclosure
[18:37:20] <Connor> I need a relay, or H-bridge to reverse the direction.. and I hope to get A+B working soon.. Right now just have Index.
[18:37:40] <Connor> but, I made sure my cable had everything I needed.
[18:37:44] <jdhNC> that relay I posted a few days ago should work
[18:38:16] <Connor> I need to go back and look at how big it is to see if I can fit it into either the main spindle enclosure, or my little control box.
[18:38:36] <jdhNC> it was 110vdc, but only 10amps I think.
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[18:38:50] <Connor> I mean physical size
[18:39:10] <Connor> and I'm not sure 10amps is enough. DC motors can have a huge amount of amps on start, or direction change.
[18:39:22] <jdhNC> kind of bulky. I have room in mine due to no C41 there.
[18:39:39] <Connor> I probably have room at the TOP of the enclosure.
[18:40:17] <jdhNC> put it in a box on top
[18:40:35] <Connor> I wonder if they make a solid state relay/h-bridge that can be used for this...
[18:40:50] <jdhNC> DC SSR's seem to be expensive
[18:41:05] <Connor> would have to be DPDT too.
[18:41:30] <jdhNC> I ordered some small project boxes to use as stepper motor->4-pin jack junction boxes to mount under the motor or on the motor standoffs.
[18:42:06] <Connor> jdhNC: I was going to mill some out of plastic in the next few weeks for that.
[18:42:22] <Connor> like those we were talking about the other day, except to fit the 60mm frame.
[18:42:29] <jdhNC> make 3 extra :)
[18:42:38] <jdhNC> he sells them that fit the 60mm frame
[18:42:55] <jdhNC> but they cost more than the motor
[18:43:11] <Connor> CNC4PC doesn't have them... the guy in Australia has them.
[18:43:18] <jdhNC> he makes them
[18:43:36] <jdhNC> huge price difference for just a few mm
[18:44:03] <Connor> I think he's trying to re-coup the mold making.. and they're not as popular as the other size.
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[19:12:54] <andypugh> djdelorie: If that is the One+ drill then the LiIon battery is possibly a worthwhile upgrade. They stay charged for ever, it seems.
[19:13:22] <djdelorie> I've been told that: "hey, when the battery on this craps out, but the lithium one"
[19:13:45] <djdelorie> I have two batteries, one stays in the charger, so it's not been a problem yet
[19:14:41] <andypugh> I have the circular saw too. It cut through a 6" x 1" slab of aluminium and the charge indicator still showed green.
[19:15:09] <andypugh> However my underpants were full of swarf.
[19:15:16] <djdelorie> do NOT scratch
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[19:39:43] <Connor> andypugh: Yea, I love/hate cutting aluminum with my miter saw. Works great.. I hate the amount of swarf it makes.. and how far that stuff goes!
[19:40:56] <mrsun> shouldnt make any more amount of swarf then anything else you cut with the same cut depth etc :P
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[19:43:54] <skunkworks> it is just messier...
[19:44:21] <skunkworks> the band saw doesn't throw the shavings half way across the room.
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[19:49:21] <skunkworks> huh - the watchdog in the estop_latch hal componant is an actual watchdog signal..
[19:49:24] <skunkworks> cool
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[19:51:31] <Aero-Tec> what is the best ini or starting sting for lencnc?
[19:51:44] <archivist> swarf throwing is good fun! finding it in ones pockets later less so
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[19:51:51] <Aero-Tec> G18 G20 G40 G49 G90 G94 G80
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[19:52:06] <Aero-Tec> is what I would start my code with
[19:52:11] <archivist> use the right gcode for your machine
[19:52:36] <Aero-Tec> but I see lencnc is a tad more involved then mach was
[19:52:42] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: here is lathe info if you have not seen it... http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/lathe/lathe-user.html
[19:54:06] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: thanks, I had seen it
[19:54:29] <Aero-Tec> but they say nothing about a good starting point to setup your code with
[19:54:53] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: what was you gcode issue yesterday? (where g95 wasn't working?)
[19:54:56] <Aero-Tec> set all the switches in the right place and get things cleared for the new program
[19:55:33] <Aero-Tec> had to deal with something else so I never got to it till now
[19:55:38] <Aero-Tec> working on it
[19:55:48] <Aero-Tec> have not tracked it down yet
[19:56:46] <Aero-Tec> but I am thinking that it has to do with how the cnc controller is configured right now
[19:56:52] <ScribbleJ> If I'm setting up a linuxcnc box today, do I still want ubuntu 10.04 or should I use the new 1204 lts?
[19:57:02] <Aero-Tec> like in some mode that is being a pain
[19:58:21] <Aero-Tec> like when the threading code would not work because of it being in G95 mode instead of G94
[19:58:33] <andypugh> ScribbleJ: Definitely 10.04
[19:58:43] <Aero-Tec> it ran well for you in the sim, so it should run for me here
[19:58:52] <andypugh> 12.04 is on a kernel with no RTAI yet
[19:58:57] <ScribbleJ> OK, thanks
[19:59:38] <Aero-Tec> I was looking for something that would clean up all modes and give a good clean starting point
[19:59:59] <Connor> skunkworks: Meaning I don't have to use the chargepump component ?
[20:00:17] <skunkworks> well - you could still use it..
[20:00:26] <skunkworks> I would take baby steps..
[20:00:33] <Aero-Tec> all compensations off, and offsets and what ever else that could be a left over from some other coding
[20:00:37] <archivist> Aero-Tec, it is something you need to think about knowing your machine and anything you have added/configured
[20:00:42] <Connor> I mean, does it output the 12.5khz signal ?
[20:01:00] <Connor> or just a true/false signal ?
[20:01:28] <skunkworks> Connor: I think it is 1/2 thread freqency. so if it is in the base thread of 1ms - it is 500hz (I think)
[20:02:02] <Connor> Well, that won't work.. I need either a 12.5khz, or have it "enable" the charge-pump .
[20:02:35] <skunkworks> how are you creating the charge pump now?
[20:02:46] -!- bostjan_2 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[20:02:46] <Aero-Tec> I know that G20 or G21 would be a nice thing to have in the INI part of your code, depending on if your doing metric or inch
[20:03:13] <Connor> what ever the standard way stepconf program does it.
[20:03:45] <Connor> but, maybe that's the same thing?
[20:03:59] <Connor> I though it was suppose to do 12.5khz..
[20:05:18] <Aero-Tec> anyway to access a USB drive in lincnc?
[20:05:37] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@195.191.253.94] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:05:41] <Connor> okay. 12.5khz is what mach3 puts out.. The valid frequency range for the charge pump is 3000Hz-15500Hz
[20:06:36] <Connor> okay. So I'm good.
[20:06:46] <jdhNC> Aero-Tec: plug it in.
[20:07:19] <Aero-Tec> when I tried to load Gcode from the drive it would not see the drive
[20:07:36] <Aero-Tec> I had to move the code from USB drive to the HD
[20:07:55] <Aero-Tec> tha computer sees the drive
[20:08:04] <Aero-Tec> but lincnc would not
[20:08:30] <jdhNC> I have one I mount under nc_files/
[20:09:04] <Aero-Tec> cool
[20:09:12] <Aero-Tec> so how does one do that?
[20:09:34] <Aero-Tec> add a link to the usb in that dir?
[20:09:45] <jdhNC> a symlink would be the easiest way
[20:09:57] <Aero-Tec> can one do a link and then will it stay there when you pull the USB?
[20:10:02] <Aero-Tec> ok
[20:10:12] <Aero-Tec> will do that
[20:10:14] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[20:10:29] <Connor> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?About_Charge_Pumps has dead link for the Tormach section..
[20:11:25] <jdhNC> it still has emc in it
[20:11:44] <jdhNC> s/emc2/linuxcnc/
[20:16:11] <andypugh> Fixed
[20:19:07] <Connor> okay, I think that's what I need to use.. However, I don't see it using fault.. it looks to just use ok-in.
[20:19:15] <Connor> iocontrol.0.user-request-enable
[20:19:21] <Connor> that the power button,or the E-Stop ?
[20:20:00] <andypugh> I recall someone sayign that the e-stop atch component didn't behave right, or according to it's docs. I don't know if he ever got anything done about it.
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[20:20:19] <andypugh> I think there was an argument that existing configs might break if it was changed.
[20:20:52] <Connor> I'll try that as it is and see if it works for me.. if not..I'll play with it..
[20:21:55] <Connor> basicly, I need the charge-pump active if not in e-stop condition. need external estop working, and EMC software e-stop buton working. I then want to tie the software POWER button to the stepper enable output.
[20:24:43] <andypugh> I think it is all reasnably easy. I seem to have what you describe pretty much without really having to think about it.
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[20:25:07] <Connor> what are you using in your config for that?
[20:25:10] <skunkworks> andypugh: Playing with it - I think the watchdog signal should be activated when the reset get twiddled.
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[20:25:49] <skunkworks> some bobs have to have the watchdog signal before they will send the enable signal back to emc.
[20:26:10] <Connor> Yea, my watchdog MUST be active in order for the e-stop clear condition can be reported to EMC.
[20:26:37] <andypugh> I don't necessarily think you ever want to disable the watchdog.
[20:26:57] <skunkworks> andypugh: that is one way... :)
[20:27:11] <andypugh> ie, if linuxCNC is up and running, then the watchdog can run becaue LinuxCNC is in control.
[20:27:13] <skunkworks> (and would probably work just fine for connor
[20:27:59] <andypugh> The watchdog will stop barking if HAL stops, or the PC freezes, or whatever, but if LinuxCNC is working normally, then the watchdog should be twiddling.
[20:28:03] <Connor> skunkworks: Exactly. The C10 BOB has a enable on it, and if you disable it, it disables the buffer between the parport and the charge pump.
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[20:28:37] <Connor> I think for my software based E-Stop to work, I have to kill the watchdog.
[20:29:02] <Connor> That's the only way I can break the "latching relay" part of it.
[20:29:49] <andypugh> A software-only e-stop isn't the best plan. My machine has a 2-element switch, an NC which drops out the main breaker (on a loop) and an NO which tells LinuxCNC that it has been pressed.
[20:30:01] <Connor> I know. I have software AND hardware.
[20:30:36] <andypugh> The little red button on the screen is more of a "fairly urgent stop" :-)
[20:31:13] <cpresser> mine just kills the enable-signal on the stepper drivers and the spindle. that net is also connecte via HAL to let emc2 know
[20:31:15] <Connor> The external estop is in series with the BOB enable and a extra DPDT relay (which kills the spindle AC and puts 5v to the stepper disable)
[20:31:51] <Connor> and drops the 5v to pin-10 (e-stop IN)
[20:32:19] <Connor> but, for software estop to work. it just needs to kill the charge pump. does the same thing.
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[20:32:32] <Connor> My Keyboard and external E-Stop aren't in the same location.
[20:33:25] <Connor> andypugh: What happens which you click the e-Stop button in EMC? Does it trip the main breaker too?
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[20:35:00] <andypugh> Yes
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[20:35:43] <Connor> okay, so how does emc trip the breaker?
[20:40:43] <andypugh> Well, I have a 7i64 so lots of 48V / 2.5A outputs, so I simply have a digital out connected to the contactor coil, and on through the e-stop chain. Basically the digital output is just another switch in the chain.
[20:40:44] <andypugh> ]
[20:41:30] <Connor> okay. So, same idea, except instead of digital out, I'm using the charge pump for that part of it.
[20:42:26] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:53:38] <andypugh> I am not sure that it really is the same idea/
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[21:51:54] <Connor_CNC> okay, on the machine.
[21:52:26] <Connor_CNC> in order to start it up now.. (I have e-stop latch going)..
[21:52:38] <Connor_CNC> I have to make sure my external estop is ok.
[21:53:13] <Connor_CNC> then.. I have to click on the software estop X (it doesn't change but, it toggles the enable-out ??)
[21:53:22] <Connor_CNC> then I can push my external reset button and it works.
[21:54:09] <Connor_CNC> my question is, why do I need to click on the software estop X button first?
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[21:56:23] <andypugh> I don't know.
[21:56:29] -!- andypugh has quit [Quit: andypugh]
[21:57:15] <robin_sz> is it possible to malke a cnc controlled kitten?
[21:58:11] <roycroft> if anyone had ever figured out how to harnass the power in a kitten that person would be the wealthiest person in the world, and we would never need concern ourselves about energy again
[21:58:58] <robin_sz> sounds purrfect
[21:59:11] <frysteev> robin_sz: hampster wheel
[21:59:31] <roycroft> the closest we've come to is this:
[21:59:45] <roycroft> truth 1: cats always land on their feet
[22:00:00] <roycroft> truth 2: butterd toast always lands buttered side down
[22:00:11] <roycroft> strap a piece of toast to a cat's back and drop it
[22:00:15] <Connor_CNC> how do you invert the output of a pin
[22:00:26] <roycroft> and you have a perfect , perpetually rotating machine
[22:00:27] <Connor_CNC> I need to invert pin 9 out
[22:05:33] <robin_sz> would a kitten help?
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[22:06:34] <robin_sz> you try applying to signal to the left front foot, and taking the signal from the right front foot ... I believe they invert in that direction
[22:06:43] <robin_sz> da pugh
[22:06:49] <ScribbleJ> roycroft, I think you are mistaken. YOu'd have to strap the toast to the cat's feet. It will land on them otherwise.
[22:07:00] <robin_sz> I directed Mr Briggs in your direction re lathes
[22:07:23] <andypugh> He has quite a nice Denford
[22:07:32] <robin_sz> he told me Boxford
[22:07:53] <andypugh> Approximately the same thing. But yes.
[22:08:42] <robin_sz> I didn't have the brian power to understand the problem, so re directed
[22:08:59] <robin_sz> I think he just had a licensing issue with the CAM package or something
[22:09:18] * robin_sz was sailing this evening
[22:09:27] <robin_sz> very pleasant, apart from screwing up the start
[22:09:51] <andypugh> Ah, yes, he is using the Denford educational software, and they won't licence it to non-edicational folks.
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[22:10:07] <robin_sz> do they have a non-educational software?
[22:11:13] <robin_sz> there are two possible answers:
[22:11:25] <robin_sz> yes, but it costs more than the educational variant
[22:11:25] <andypugh> No.
[22:11:34] -!- Connor1 [Connor1!~mill@75.76.30.113] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:11:38] <robin_sz> no: we are british and stupid, we just like to turn money away
[22:11:41] Connor1 is now known as Connor_CNC
[22:11:49] <robin_sz> ah no
[22:12:00] <robin_sz> kinda predictable
[22:12:10] <andypugh> I told him when he got it that EMC2 was his answer
[22:12:22] <robin_sz> I told him the same
[22:12:31] <robin_sz> he said someting about "not having time"
[22:13:09] <Connor_CNC> okay.. I'm stumped.. how do you invert a output for a pin on parport ? Do you use NOT ?
[22:13:19] <andypugh> I also told him that he should just give it to me.
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[22:13:34] <andypugh> Connor: Input or output?
[22:13:38] <Connor_CNC> output
[22:14:03] <andypugh> setp parport.0.pin-nn-out-invert 1
[22:14:17] <andypugh> (From fallible memory)
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[22:32:23] <Connor_CNC> okay. didn't need to invert the pin.. need to switch the common on my relay.
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[22:33:02] <Connor_CNC> I have it working except for having to push the X estop (even if it's already depressed) to enable E-Stop on machine.
[22:33:18] <Connor_CNC> I guess that'll do for now.
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[22:45:34] <ScribbleJ> Is there any advice about a computer to run linuxcnc and drive a parport machine, like... some go-to box you can order from Amazon if you don't havea n old PC on hand?
[22:46:53] <Tom_itx> atom D525
[22:46:58] <Tom_itx> newegg
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[22:48:10] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[22:48:39] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[22:48:39] <ScribbleJ> hrmmmmmm
[22:48:46] <Tom_itx> is what i got
[22:48:58] <Tom_itx> 2 sticks of ram and a hdd and dvd if you want
[22:49:09] <Tom_itx> case comes with psu
[22:49:43] <ScribbleJ> That is good advice. Is this a better idea than trying to find a parport card for an old PC I might have, or ... is there a way to add a parport to an old laptop?
[22:49:58] <Tom_itx> not all parport cards work anymore
[22:50:07] <Tom_itx> you need a good ole legacy card
[22:50:16] <ScribbleJ> Ok. Good to know.
[22:50:24] <Tom_itx> or ask here about it
[22:50:45] <ScribbleJ> I just got a machine today, but I bet it'll be weeks before I have it running. Heh
[22:50:51] <Tom_itx> atom has another mb out now a bit newer but this one works good
[22:50:54] <Tom_itx> several here use it
[22:51:21] <Tom_itx> or put the mb in your control box
[22:51:42] <jdhNC> the new one or the new new one
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[22:51:53] <andypugh> ScribbleJ: That Atom board is known to give great results with LinuxCNC
[22:53:17] <Tom_itx> jdhNC, pcw_home posted a link the other day
[22:54:16] <jdhNC> to the 525 successor?
[22:54:59] <jdhNC> I think I need another 525 for up here.
[22:55:09] <Guthur> djdelorie: did you use any CAD software to design your CNC?
[22:57:26] <ScribbleJ> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.951221 haaay, is that the right motherboard?
[22:58:24] <jdhNC> yep
[22:58:38] <ScribbleJ> that appears to be a deal for me.
[22:59:13] <Tom_itx> W/psu?
[22:59:22] <ScribbleJ> There's a PSU in the photos...
[22:59:40] <jdhNC> 200w ps
[22:59:42] <ScribbleJ> 200W
[22:59:45] <ScribbleJ> yeah, just found it.
[22:59:46] <ScribbleJ> heh
[22:59:59] <ScribbleJ> I'm sur ethat's very sufficient for the purpose.
[23:00:10] <jdhNC> 1 x PCI-32bit through a riser card
[23:00:24] <jdhNC> the MB doesn't need the riser, wonder if that is wrong or the back of the case is weird
[23:00:36] <ScribbleJ> It is weird.
[23:00:41] <Tom_itx> cd drive front access?
[23:01:16] <jdhNC> the no cd access, and the cutout for the pci is sideways
[23:01:24] <Tom_itx> my case doesn't require a riser either
[23:01:30] <jdhNC> nor mine.
[23:01:34] <jdhNC> I'd pass on that one
[23:01:40] <Tom_itx> i'll stick with my deal thankyou
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[23:02:02] <Tom_itx> i got pics of the case if you wanna see
[23:02:20] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/atom_index.php
[23:03:19] <jdhNC> my case came with a little plug in speaker thing, but I didn't see any place on the MB to plug it in
[23:03:43] <Tom_itx> it may have a builtin piezo
[23:04:02] <jdhNC> didn't see one.
[23:04:09] <Tom_itx> i didn't look
[23:04:14] <Tom_itx> not important to me
[23:04:35] <jdhNC> only good for POST
[23:04:59] <Tom_itx> good enough
[23:05:27] <ScribbleJ> I don't think having a CD on it is important to me, the elcheapo case is good.
[23:05:45] <jdhNC> I didn't bother with cd either. I do have a pci card though
[23:06:41] <ScribbleJ> What for ?
[23:06:56] <jdhNC> wifi card
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[23:10:51] <andypugh> I guess that has a riser to lay a PCI card over the top of the board horizontally.
[23:12:01] <andypugh> Yes, I found a picture, and that is the case.
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[23:13:23] <r00t4rd3d> My Atom setup: http://i.imgur.com/DaW3W.jpg
[23:13:56] <Tom_itx> ScribbleJ unless you wanna install from the live cd
[23:14:32] <jdhNC> I burned the livecd to a usb
[23:14:38] <jdhNC> booted it on the atom and installed
[23:14:47] <Tom_itx> 2.5?
[23:15:29] <jdhNC> no, 10.04 but 2.5 wasn't released when I did the install
[23:15:47] <Tom_itx> i may have to reinstall mine
[23:15:56] <Tom_itx> i've been messin around with the machine
[23:16:02] <r00t4rd3d> still waiting on my jae50 to sata board so i can use the dvd
[23:16:18] <Tom_itx> i wanted to test my new drivers tonight but may not get to
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[23:18:49] <atom1> does someone have the link to install 2.5 from the web?
[23:19:01] <jdhNC> it's on the front page
[23:19:04] <atom1> it doesn't work off the live cd
[23:19:17] <atom1> i may just try reinstalling it
[23:19:24] <jdhNC> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpdatingTo2.5
[23:19:33] <r00t4rd3d> did you get an error?
[23:19:48] <r00t4rd3d> trying 10.04 or whatever
[23:19:53] <Tom_itx> when i did the install i did but i got it working after that
[23:20:04] <Tom_itx> i've screwed with that pc to where i think it's my fault
[23:20:19] <Tom_itx> i've got 10.04 cd too
[23:20:26] <r00t4rd3d> most computer users are their own worst enemy
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[23:20:54] <Tom_itx> mmm requred a restart
[23:21:14] <r00t4rd3d> what are you trying to do tom?
[23:21:19] <Tom_itx> i installed a webserver on it
[23:21:28] <Tom_itx> i was just messin around
[23:21:32] <r00t4rd3d> apache?
[23:21:37] <Tom_itx> yeah
[23:21:57] <Tom_itx> it's working but linuxcnc isn't
[23:21:59] <r00t4rd3d> im an apache wizard
[23:22:16] <r00t4rd3d> i have a hat
[23:22:18] <Tom_itx> well they moved stuff around again from my main server install on debian
[23:23:17] <Tom_itx> will having all that on there affect linuxcnc's performance?
[23:23:52] <Tom_itx> it's not online, it's a backup
[23:23:58] <r00t4rd3d> it is wicked fun to config 1000 virtual servers off one apache install.
[23:24:14] <r00t4rd3d> no
[23:24:32] <r00t4rd3d> apache is very light weight when not under load
[23:24:47] -!- pfred1 [pfred1!~pfred1@unaffiliated/pfred1] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:25:05] <pfred1> hey everybody
[23:25:20] <r00t4rd3d> other then posting your links here your server is probably dead most of the time
[23:26:15] <Tom_itx> i'm sure it is
[23:26:36] <pfred1> I need to setup my machine upstairs to serve my html to me
[23:26:36] <Tom_itx> it's my "pastebin"
[23:26:50] <r00t4rd3d> and you only do image files
[23:27:15] <r00t4rd3d> bandwidth yes, apache power no.
[23:27:26] <pfred1> I'm fixing to take down my old machine which does my html now
[23:27:26] <djdelorie> Guther: Nope, we just winged it
[23:27:52] -!- atom1 [atom1!~tom@ip68-102-202-1.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:30:07] <pfred1> so sad to decommission an old PC but I don't really use it anymore
[23:30:31] <r00t4rd3d> toilet pc
[23:30:37] <r00t4rd3d> everyone poops
[23:32:06] <pfred1> I hooked a 5.1 surround system up to my new junker last night its cool!
[23:32:41] <r00t4rd3d> pfred1, you use the tb6560?
[23:32:54] <r00t4rd3d> ive seen some of you replies to forum posts
[23:32:58] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d now i do toshiba just came out with a new chip though
[23:33:04] <r00t4rd3d> but was pfred2
[23:33:19] <pfred1> on instructables?
[23:33:31] <r00t4rd3d> cant remember
[23:33:39] <pfred1> I'm pfred2 there
[23:33:51] <pfred1> I lost my password when i moved for pfred1
[23:33:59] <pfred1> it was a hectic time
[23:34:03] <r00t4rd3d> i could recover that for you
[23:34:42] <JT-Shop-2> lol Andy's computer is a "bit bonkers"
[23:34:46] <pfred1> I only posted a little as pfred1
[23:34:54] <pfred1> JT-Shop-2 well read what he said
[23:35:06] <r00t4rd3d> username is all i need
[23:35:08] <pfred1> crashing all over the place can't unload modules it ain't right
[23:35:33] <JT-Shop-2> just making fun
[23:35:40] JT-Shop-2 is now known as JT-Shop
[23:35:44] <pfred1> it looks bad for Linux
[23:35:58] <JT-Shop> well generator test was very interesting to say the least
[23:36:10] <pfred1> but in his case I couldn't argue it seems he does have to reboot
[23:36:35] <pfred1> really he needs to get to the bottom of what is going on
[23:37:08] <pfred1> maybe if he gets really good friends with Alan Cox or something
[23:37:18] <pfred1> hey DJ don't you know Alan?
[23:37:48] <djdelorie> Not that well ;-)
[23:38:07] <pfred1> it sounds like Andy could use some of Alan's attentions to me
[23:39:05] <djdelorie> however, crashing when you unload modules is usually the module's problem, not the kernel's problem. If it's a third-party module, blame them first ;-)
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[23:39:14] <pfred1> isn't LinuxCNC using a kernel later than what RTAI patches against now?
[23:39:39] <pfred1> djdelorie it sounds like it is crashing on him, then he is trying to unload it with no success
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[23:39:55] <JT-Shop> I think andypugh's crashes are due to him writing modules and figuring out what is broke as he goes along
[23:40:09] <djdelorie> if you patch the kernel source, and it breaks, you get to keep both pieces
[23:40:11] <pfred1> JT-Shop that is a valid method
[23:40:18] <andypugh> Indeed,
[23:40:18] <JT-Shop> aye
[23:40:38] <pfred1> fix it until it breaks
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[23:41:27] <andypugh> Then I have to figure out how I segfaulted, or which infinite loop has been zeroing kernel memory until it hit something important. It isn't Linux's fault that I can break it with badly-coded kernel modules.
[23:41:29] <JT-Shop> so andypugh we ran the generator to power up the BP VMC and while not 100% due to lack of control of the motor's speed I think it was conclusive enough to say the Simodrive don't like my phase converter
[23:41:33] <pfred1> andypugh tell us more about your rebootable PC :)
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[23:42:27] <pfred1> I'm getting to the point on this box where I want to bank some uptime on it
[23:42:52] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I think a single-phase DC power supply is the better solution. But I am not sure how much you would have to shange. It seems daft to make 3-phase only to have it instantly rectified.
[23:43:20] <pfred1> 3 phase DC now that'd be interesting
[23:43:32] <pfred1> delta wye!
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[23:44:27] <pfred1> andypugh what do you think everything on the bench for $10 USD http://i.imgur.com/o39uG.jpg
[23:44:40] <pfred1> was it a good deal?
[23:45:44] <andypugh> Yes and no. It looks like a useful monitor and IEC leads, and some junk.
[23:46:09] <pfred1> right now I'm using the 5.1 surround it is kicking
[23:46:34] <JT-Shop> andypugh: it would be quite an undertaking as the modules all talk to each other... if they were autonomous units that might be more trivial
[23:47:16] <pfred1> andypugh the plastic tub came with it too
[23:47:38] <pfred1> that has to be worth $2 right there
[23:47:38] <andypugh> I spy a circle of firebricks and some scorched baking trays. You do casting too, I surmise?
[23:47:41] <JT-Shop> so at this point I #1 buy a 3 phase generator or #B figure out how to get clean 3phase from a rotary pase converter
[23:47:56] <pfred1> andypugh yeah a little when the weather is right I worry about burning down the county
[23:48:39] <pfred1> or at least the stand of woods i live in
[23:49:14] <andypugh> I have to be at work tomorrow in the actual morning. So I best check out.
[23:49:21] <pfred1> nite
[23:49:24] <JT-Shop> goodnight Andy
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[23:57:44] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: you around?
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