#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-22

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[00:00:25] <robin_sz> I would still get leather gloves
[00:00:39] <robin_sz> hands get hurt easy
[00:00:42] <mazafaka> In MX boots, leg is protected from the side, right?
[00:01:12] <mazafaka> robin_sz: last summer, I had fallen from MTB and deeply scratched the palms
[00:01:13] <robin_sz> yep
[00:01:29] <robin_sz> leather MX gloves would save you
[00:01:52] <robin_sz> MX gear and MTB gear will be similar
[00:01:55] <mazafaka> I know of cases when a car hits bike from the side, and riders say 'only boots have saved my legs'
[00:02:00] <robin_sz> MX a bit tougher
[00:02:02] <robin_sz> yep
[00:02:31] <robin_sz> MX boots no good for MTB bike though, wont pedal in those :)
[00:02:52] <robin_sz> good for all biking on rough roads though
[00:02:59] <mazafaka> So, MX gear can slide a little on a rough tarmac, or they will grip it too much so I can not protect myself from falling further?
[00:03:19] <robin_sz> MX gear tends to have impact protection
[00:03:25] <robin_sz> but not much sliding protection
[00:03:46] <robin_sz> its OK so say 40 kmh?
[00:04:04] <mazafaka> :) heh, cycling in boots is tricky. Legs in some boots just move aside on the pedals when you land on e.g. stairs on a hardtail.
[00:04:12] <robin_sz> yep
[00:04:19] <robin_sz> MTB has different needs
[00:04:24] <mazafaka> 40 km/h is rather OK for a bicycle
[00:04:28] <robin_sz> yep
[00:04:47] <robin_sz> so you can choose
[00:05:07] <robin_sz> I dont ride bicycle only moto
[00:05:23] <robin_sz> I wuold get some good MX leather gloves, save your hands
[00:05:26] <mazafaka> I think of road gears, anyway.
[00:05:39] <robin_sz> road gear is for road bikers .. 200 kmh +
[00:05:55] <mazafaka> save from scratches, but does not protect from rough surfaces like tarmac?
[00:06:20] <mazafaka> oh, didn't think of it
[00:06:24] <robin_sz> MX gear is OK to 40 kmh, saves from bruises, some scratches
[00:06:38] <robin_sz> road gear is OK to 200 kmh, but not flexible ...
[00:06:48] <robin_sz> too heavy for mtb
[00:06:57] <mazafaka> I fear of rough tarmac, and some type of gravel roads
[00:07:01] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:07:22] <robin_sz> MX jackets I would look at
[00:07:26] <robin_sz> light
[00:07:30] <robin_sz> plenty of air
[00:07:36] <robin_sz> good impact protection
[00:07:49] <robin_sz> and mx jeans .. with in built protection
[00:08:04] <mazafaka> some MTB gloves look like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/motocross-mx-racing-gloves-knuckle-protection-velcro-closure-Medium-/251044002270?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Gloves&hash=item3a736379de
[00:08:31] <mazafaka> there are no mx jeans :)
[00:08:38] <robin_sz> they look good
[00:09:15] <robin_sz> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UFO-MX19-MOTOCROSS-ENDURO-RACE-JEANS-BLUE-36-4294C-/270678117884?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f05ac4dfc
[00:09:51] <mazafaka> I don't know, I fear of something since I had seen photos of injured road bikers. Tarmac + stupid moments = harm
[00:10:01] <robin_sz> might be too heavy for MTB riding?
[00:10:27] <mazafaka> I thought jeans are made of cotton :)
[00:10:39] <robin_sz> MX gear will protect you .. depends if it has enough "air" for MTB riding .. you might get too hot
[00:10:49] <robin_sz> nope,
[00:10:55] <robin_sz> thats denim jeans :)
[00:11:02] <mazafaka> maybe heavy, but i never cycle in shorts or so. Skin must be protected at least with something
[00:11:09] <robin_sz> yep
[00:11:22] <robin_sz> skin + tarmac = pain
[00:11:39] <robin_sz> its like a giant grinding machine :(
[00:12:16] <robin_sz> http://www.newturfers.com/mwf/attach/16/168616/madrash.jpeg
[00:12:35] <mazafaka> I have seen worth
[00:12:46] <mazafaka> e.g. thorn apart bodyparts
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[00:13:02] <robin_sz> looks like he was wearing trainers
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[00:13:32] <mazafaka> heh, some wear shorts and invite girls in bikini, i would only invite ones into the cars
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[00:13:43] <robin_sz> you see, when you fall off, the road doesnt know if you fell off motorbike or mtb ... it chews you up just the same
[00:14:56] <robin_sz> anyway
[00:14:58] <mazafaka> I actually know nothing of falling from the motorbike. If you fall from MTB, it is mostly possible to fall happily protecting yourself pushing you hands in front of you. But bike may squeeze you and slide with you.
[00:15:29] <robin_sz> mmm .. I seen mtb guys pretty cut up
[00:15:57] <robin_sz> I fell off bycyles it always hurts
[00:16:02] <mazafaka> In this video, they wear mx gear's jeans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g8DX8Uc4sY
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[00:17:18] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:17:54] <mazafaka> I only felt because of chain fails - it have started to fall of the gear, and leg gone down to the asphalt, And I hit several times and then felt on ahuge speed. A car could drive just behind me (modern Russian drivers aren't smart at all, kids of any age)
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[00:19:38] <mazafaka> MX gear, its jeans, protect what? knees and what else?
[00:19:46] <robin_sz> hips
[00:19:50] <robin_sz> top side of leg
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[00:20:24] <mazafaka> With carbon thingies which do not restrict the moves?
[00:21:15] <robin_sz> msotly leather for amrasion
[00:21:18] <robin_sz> abrasion
[00:21:29] <robin_sz> and with sorbothane rubber for impact
[00:21:42] <mazafaka> I'll look if there's some Moto store in the nearest big city and visit it, ask for prices and sales and discounts
[00:23:36] <robin_sz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTyrxhqN5ak
[00:23:37] <mazafaka> Seems like thoughtfull protection for sane rider. But I would be extra carefull for other vehicles' behavior and moves on the road. Some drivers show themselve with they style of driving, and this reveals and predicts potential accident.
[00:23:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/V6ggD
[00:24:23] <robin_sz> oh yes, watching drivers is something you learn quite soon on motorbike or mtb
[00:24:31] <robin_sz> you can see the dangerous ones easy
[00:24:34] <r00t4rd3d> finally getting enough parts to build trial and errors
[00:26:09] <mazafaka> Yeah... Another time has come on the roads... Some vehicle is always behind you, it's dangerous to cycling agressively, must be careful enough to not fall down on the road in front of the car which has no space to stop before you.
[00:26:19] <robin_sz> oh watch this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVN98EwM3l0&feature=related
[00:26:40] <mazafaka> Many people here have bought cars for themselves.
[00:26:55] <robin_sz> good mx gear often has thin sorbothane pads over the bones
[00:27:03] <robin_sz> hips, knees
[00:27:19] <robin_sz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVN98EwM3l0&feature=related << very impressive :)
[00:27:43] <mazafaka> it's probably like resin sneakers and e.g. ecco shoes which are suitable for running 'just from the store'
[00:29:13] <robin_sz> similar
[00:29:34] <robin_sz> anyway, yuo can imagine it is good to have even 5mm of this when you hit the road
[00:30:27] <mazafaka> robin_sz: What do you think of the installation of MX front end and front and rear wheels with disk brakes to the 2-stroke 350 cc bike which dry weight is 160 kg because of heavy front end and wheels?
[00:31:09] <mazafaka> off course. besides, jeans always tear apart when you het the surface with the knees.
[00:34:38] <mazafaka> And, alwasy a happy case. Or whatever can happen with any good protection.
[00:36:17] <mazafaka> These ones look nice, but ends of the fingers aren't really armoured ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WULFSPORT-WIGGSTYLE-MX-OFF-ROAD-MTB-ENDURO-BIKE-ARMOURED-WULF-MOTOCROSS-GLOVES-/190590712097?pt=UK_Cycling_Clothing&var=&hash=item72185d0435 )
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[00:49:13] * robin_sz returns
[00:50:11] <mazafaka> I'll end up with some heavy-duty MTB gloves with protection
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[00:50:59] <jdhnc> anyone know of an easy to make, fairly accurate pwm->0-10vdc circuit?
[00:51:20] <robin_sz> jdhnc, yes, yes it is
[00:51:44] <jdhnc> cool, can you make it and send it to me?
[00:51:54] <jdhnc> or failing that, give me a reference.
[00:52:03] <robin_sz> its called a "resistor" and "a capacitor"
[00:52:13] <jdhnc> yeah, I wanted a little better than that.
[00:52:30] <robin_sz> what aspect of it do you want to improve?
[00:52:49] <robin_sz> basically, you need an input buffer
[00:52:53] <robin_sz> a RC filter
[00:53:15] <robin_sz> an output buffer (with gain trim to get 10V for 100% mod)
[00:53:18] <robin_sz> thats it .
[00:54:25] <jdhnc> so, how do you pick R/C for 100khz 5v pwm
[00:54:57] <djdelorie> or, for maximum overkill, an MCU or FPGA that measures the actual pulse widths, and outputs to a precision DAC... ;-)
[00:55:15] <jdhnc> djd: that's more likely for me.
[00:55:46] <r00t4rd3d> whats a good gantry height?
[00:56:24] <jdhnc> depends, what's your favorite color.
[00:56:30] <r00t4rd3d> mine is 18 miles too long atm, http://i.imgur.com/UnrMB.jpg
[00:56:52] <robin_sz> yep
[00:56:57] <jdhnc> heh... I saw that earlier and thought, damn, that's a really high gantry.
[00:57:02] <robin_sz> want a good plan?
[00:57:13] <robin_sz> use the same height as the base
[00:57:15] <djdelorie> mine is only 3.75"
[00:57:22] <robin_sz> or maybe 2 x the base
[00:57:30] <robin_sz> yes, your base is MUCH too small
[00:57:40] <robin_sz> 1 x base is strong
[00:57:41] <r00t4rd3d> i own all your base
[00:57:52] <ReadError> i want to build one out of 80/20
[00:57:53] <robin_sz> 2 x base is ok for light materials
[00:58:03] <robin_sz> all your base are belong to us
[00:58:14] <r00t4rd3d> my base is too small?
[00:58:16] <jdhnc> how think is your material. How big is yoru spindle. How much Z do you need
[00:58:20] <r00t4rd3d> my mom said it was average
[00:58:30] <robin_sz> she lied
[00:58:31] <jdhnc> that's what she told me too.
[00:58:44] <robin_sz> your mom said mine was just fiiiiine
[00:59:35] <r00t4rd3d> what else should I do?
[00:59:36] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/V6ggD
[00:59:45] <r00t4rd3d> tell me what i should change now
[00:59:59] <r00t4rd3d> besides gantry height but I knew that already.
[01:00:06] <r00t4rd3d> im not gonna carve stumps
[01:00:22] <robin_sz> coo
[01:00:40] <robin_sz> lateral stablilty will be poor
[01:00:42] <ReadError> http://p.twimg.com/ArCQoV8CMAERK-t.jpg:large
[01:00:44] <jdhnc> need to shorten it, or at least add another cross piece lower.
[01:00:45] <robin_sz> (left, right)
[01:00:45] <ReadError> ;o
[01:01:01] <robin_sz> or an under-piece
[01:01:09] <robin_sz> the dise will just push apart
[01:01:09] <r00t4rd3d> its getting an under
[01:01:11] <jdhnc> or both
[01:01:24] <r00t4rd3d> i was waiting till i got the height right
[01:01:31] <robin_sz> take those blocks
[01:01:37] <robin_sz> cut them in the middle
[01:01:43] <robin_sz> make the base 10"
[01:01:58] <r00t4rd3d> i got linear rods and blocks too
[01:02:04] <r00t4rd3d> for the other axis
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[01:02:27] <robin_sz> try an get base nearer 10" or so for that gantry
[01:02:50] <r00t4rd3d> i have to stick with the base width cause i already have a lead screw for it
[01:03:00] <robin_sz> ?
[01:03:05] <robin_sz> not WIDTH
[01:03:13] <robin_sz> the distance from front bearing to back bearing
[01:03:33] <r00t4rd3d> oh
[01:03:36] <r00t4rd3d> well
[01:03:37] <robin_sz> too small
[01:03:40] <robin_sz> much too small
[01:04:08] <r00t4rd3d> for a dremel ?
[01:04:19] <robin_sz> mm
[01:04:28] <robin_sz> might be OK, btu the height ...
[01:04:30] <r00t4rd3d> or maybe a small trim router
[01:04:43] <robin_sz> yes, too smalll by a lot for a trim router
[01:04:54] <r00t4rd3d> yeah im gonna fix the height next
[01:05:04] <robin_sz> drop it to 4" or so
[01:05:10] <r00t4rd3d> ok
[01:05:18] <r00t4rd3d> im gonna pretty it up too
[01:05:22] <r00t4rd3d> put a dress on it
[01:05:23] <robin_sz> meh
[01:05:28] <robin_sz> boobies?
[01:05:50] <r00t4rd3d> no one has square corners
[01:05:56] <robin_sz> it would be .... unique
[01:06:06] <r00t4rd3d> i got sawz
[01:06:14] <r00t4rd3d> all of them
[01:06:32] <robin_sz> I know a perfect Z axis slide for you
[01:07:00] <r00t4rd3d> i was gonna have one made out of aluminum
[01:07:15] <r00t4rd3d> i know this metal guy now
[01:07:48] <jdhnc> does he travel with a lion, a little girl and a small dog?
[01:08:12] <robin_sz> http://www.igus.co.uk/wpck/default.aspx?Pagename=drylin_sht&CL=GB-en
[01:08:18] <r00t4rd3d> no just barbies, gi joes and candy. Has this funny bear sticker on his van too.
[01:08:22] <robin_sz> drylin leadscrew module
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[01:08:51] <jdhnc> no kidding! me to!
[01:09:28] <robin_sz> the SLW series is what you want
[01:09:30] <r00t4rd3d> I can just imagine how many piles of gold they want for that actuator
[01:09:42] <robin_sz> guess
[01:09:48] <r00t4rd3d> 2-300
[01:09:52] <jdhnc> 600
[01:09:55] <r00t4rd3d> fuck that
[01:10:00] <robin_sz> idiot
[01:10:04] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[01:10:16] <r00t4rd3d> 600 really?
[01:10:18] <jdhnc> $59.95?
[01:10:23] <r00t4rd3d> what
[01:10:24] <robin_sz> no, its not worth telling you
[01:10:47] <robin_sz> you really think I would recommend a $600 actuator to someone building a $100 router?
[01:11:17] <r00t4rd3d> i got over 130 in one axis
[01:11:21] <robin_sz> about $60to 80
[01:11:27] <robin_sz> depending on size
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[01:12:28] <r00t4rd3d> i still cant find the prices
[01:12:54] <robin_sz> I paid Ł79 for my last one
[01:13:03] <robin_sz> its about 12" long
[01:13:17] <robin_sz> there are deals out there, look around
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[01:14:12] <robin_sz> infact, I seem to remember they even sent me a free sample once
[01:14:53] <jdhnc> they have some cool looking cable management stuff
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[01:17:51] <r00t4rd3d> i would buy one if I knew how
[01:18:16] <robin_sz> shop around, keep an eye on ebay
[01:18:37] <robin_sz> perfect for a dremel or small trim router
[01:18:55] <robin_sz> you should pick it up up under 100
[01:19:16] <robin_sz> remember you need 4" of free movement with a 4" gantry
[01:19:42] <r00t4rd3d> what do you mean by that
[01:19:50] <r00t4rd3d> up and down?
[01:19:53] <robin_sz> yes
[01:20:06] <r00t4rd3d> what about kitty corner?
[01:20:23] <robin_sz> i never touched her
[01:20:31] <robin_sz> the rumours are a lie!
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[01:21:52] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Z-Axis-Linear-Stage-CNC-DIY-New-5-travel-/330720833708?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d007f70ac
[01:22:33] <ReadError> nice find
[01:22:37] <Thetawaves> no ball screw?
[01:22:39] <r00t4rd3d> woudl that hold your mom?
[01:22:44] <r00t4rd3d> or a trim router
[01:23:08] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[01:23:14] <ReadError> you can get the probotix router mount
[01:23:39] <robin_sz> NICE!
[01:24:47] <r00t4rd3d> link?
[01:25:04] <ReadError> http://www.probotix.com/spindles_and_mounts/
[01:25:58] <r00t4rd3d> oh anyone of theirs will fit your saying
[01:26:23] <robin_sz> that linear stage is NICE
[01:26:34] <robin_sz> if you have the $ .. get it
[01:26:46] <r00t4rd3d> i will on friday
[01:26:54] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[01:26:55] <r00t4rd3d> i got like 25 now
[01:26:58] <ReadError> depends what router you ahve
[01:27:07] <r00t4rd3d> a dremel
[01:27:23] <r00t4rd3d> but I almost bought a ridgid the other day
[01:27:39] <r00t4rd3d> they one they also have for sale
[01:27:44] <r00t4rd3d> the trim job
[01:27:58] <r00t4rd3d> rigid*
[01:28:53] <ReadError> with a router that size
[01:28:58] <ReadError> go with that big dog motor ;)
[01:30:41] <jdhnc> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221004966233
[01:30:45] <jdhnc> anyone know what that is?
[01:31:23] <ReadError> looks like a manufacturing table of some sort
[01:31:29] <ReadError> production line stuff
[01:32:57] <Jymmm> pcb related by ythe ctegory it's in
[01:34:41] <Jymmm> kinda looks like it would UNstack pcbs
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[02:07:38] <ReadError> what can i use to touch off of that would handle the x/y/z ?
[02:07:53] <ReadError> im worried a block would mess up my endmill
[02:08:30] <ReadError> i have a center finder
[02:08:41] <ReadError> but then i still have to swap the bit
[02:08:49] <ReadError> so ide lose my depth reading
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[02:14:14] <Jymmm> a flashlight
[02:14:47] <Jymmm> oh, nm
[02:15:15] <Tom_itx> ok Jymmm
[02:15:18] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/psu1.jpg
[02:15:28] <Tom_itx> you think those caps will filter the supply well enough?
[02:15:42] <Jymmm> uf and voltage?
[02:15:43] <Tom_itx> 2200 uf ea iirc
[02:15:47] <Tom_itx> 63v
[02:15:54] <Tom_itx> supply is ~45 iirc
[02:16:01] <Tom_itx> need to check it again for sure
[02:16:18] <Tom_itx> 3x transformers diode packs 9 caps
[02:16:22] <Jymmm> 45*1.414==63.63
[02:16:57] <Jymmm> are you making two ps?
[02:17:09] <Tom_itx> 3
[02:17:20] <Tom_itx> 3rd one was late to the pic
[02:17:34] <Tom_itx> 1 per axis
[02:17:36] <Jymmm> just 4400uF?
[02:17:42] <Tom_itx> 6600
[02:17:46] <Tom_itx> 3 ea
[02:18:32] <Jymmm> iirc seems low, but I could be mistaken. Also you are overvoltage for the caps, no error for margin
[02:18:46] <Jymmm> reverse that
[02:24:43] <Tom_itx> i think the v for the caps is ok
[02:25:30] <Tecan> wheres a good place to buy timing belt ?
[02:25:34] <Tecan> that wide white stuff
[02:25:34] <Jymmm> C = 80000 * I / V
[02:25:48] <Tom_itx> 6A
[02:25:55] <Tom_itx> 45v
[02:26:14] <Tecan> theres xl and t5 timing belts right ?
[02:26:25] <Tom_itx> stock drive products
[02:26:31] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you should be at 11,000uF
[02:26:46] <Jymmm> so double what you intended
[02:26:52] <Tom_itx> you think?
[02:27:03] <Tom_itx> where do you get that formula?
[02:27:28] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ggecko https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC0QxQEwAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fviewer%3Fa%3Dv%26q%3Dcache%3ApdMzMP6hS0wJ%3Awww.geckodrive.com%2Fimages%2Ffck_uploads%2FStep%252520Motor%252520Basics%252520Guide.pdf%2B%26hl%3Den%26gl%3Dus%26pid%3Dbl%26srcid%3DADGEEShe4wN_Lmw7S0G_EfL0OGIPG0UO6hfAfhQVcvNlUCd8zXcHLWWfVgXCTghEOggP2bekC_HlGQYjsV-K299dq9oCtn1BhRto4X-0AQhUNX2FbyhEBplbOTDk1XSCNYh-X
[02:27:29] <Jymmm> xmQ6JN8%26sig%3DAHIEtbSf0mk1J4p78iIJoLIePaLAfeNabw&ei=umuTT_rsJuqviAKIx4AK&usg=AFQjCNERyMt2Ed2PY2pjN-j1BdhVXFBHBQ&cad=rja
[02:27:43] <Jymmm> google power supply basics site:geckodrive.com filetype:pdf
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[02:28:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: https://www.google.com/search?q=power+supply+basics+site%3Ageckodrive.com+filetype%3Apdf
[02:28:07] <Tom_itx> their site is down right now
[02:28:20] <Jymmm> I know, click on QUICK VIEW
[02:29:31] <Tecan> wheres a good place to buy threadrod and timing belts ?
[02:29:35] <Jymmm> pg 11 or so, unregulated power supply
[02:29:43] <Tom_itx> Tecan, stock drive products
[02:29:43] <Jymmm> Tecan: McMaster.com
[02:30:29] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: use a voltage rating 20% HIGHER than the output voltage
[02:30:39] <Jymmm> for the cap voltage
[02:31:54] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: is 45v the OUTPUT voltage for the PS or the xfmr?
[02:32:25] <Tom_itx> 32v xfmr iirc
[02:32:30] <Tom_itx> i'd have to check again
[02:32:51] <Jymmm> 32vac * 1.414 == 46vdc
[02:33:54] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: did you get the pdf?
[02:34:14] <Tom_itx> i'm looking at it
[02:34:17] <Tom_itx> didn't save it
[02:34:17] <Jymmm> k
[02:34:35] <Jymmm> good coument, hasn't changed in years
[02:35:22] <Tom_itx> wonder why they're down
[02:35:28] <Tom_itx> and yet can view the pdf
[02:35:42] <Jymmm> I went thru google's cache of the website
[02:35:55] <Jymmm> thats the link I gave you
[02:36:05] <Tom_itx> so can i save it as a pdf?
[02:36:20] <Jymmm> at the top click on DOWNLOAD ORIGINAL
[02:36:36] <Jymmm> err
[02:36:37] <Tom_itx> errors
[02:36:51] <Jymmm> click on SAVE IN GOOGLE DOCS, then you can download from there
[02:37:51] <Jymmm> FILE > DOWNLOAD
[02:40:52] <Tom_itx> i'll wait
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[02:43:05] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: so it looks liek you need more caps
[02:43:33] <Tom_itx> or less transfomer
[02:43:42] <Tom_itx> can i combine the outputs of 2?
[02:43:50] <Tom_itx> if they're in phase
[02:44:05] <Jymmm> what do you mean?
[02:44:18] <Jymmm> less current? less voltage?
[02:44:23] <Tom_itx> make 1 big transformer from 2
[02:44:35] <Jymmm> for what purpose?
[02:44:59] <Tom_itx> or would i be better off keeping them as separate supplies
[02:45:04] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: wait, were you going to make one PS per axis?
[02:45:17] <Tom_itx> yup
[02:45:24] <Jymmm> no no no no no no no
[02:45:37] <Tom_itx> don't tell me no
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[02:46:05] <Jymmm> the idea is that when one stepper is stopping, the BENF produces goes to another axis
[02:46:11] <Jymmm> BEMF
[02:46:22] <Jymmm> one PS for all three axis
[02:46:28] <ThadiusB> hello everyone
[02:46:33] <ThadiusB> what a long, kickass day
[02:46:42] <Tom_itx> well i'd have a total of 18A
[02:46:47] <Tom_itx> i probably don't need it all
[02:47:04] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: what is the secondary voltage from onw xfmr?
[02:47:09] <Jymmm> one
[02:47:11] <Tom_itx> but you don't understand my queston
[02:47:24] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure if it's advisable to do it or not
[02:47:35] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: what is the secondary voltage from one xfmr?
[02:47:39] <Tom_itx> i already combined secondaries on each transformer
[02:47:47] <Tom_itx> to boost the current
[02:48:17] <Tom_itx> so if i keep the phase correct, can i combine 2 transformer secondaries?
[02:48:30] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: what is the secondary voltage from one xfmr?
[02:48:38] <Tom_itx> i told you already
[02:49:10] <pcw_home> sure you can parallel secondaries (if they are identical)
[02:49:21] <Jymmm> to double the current
[02:49:42] <pcw_home> and identical PRI/SEC ratios
[02:49:43] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, these would be parallel transformers
[02:49:52] <Tom_itx> they are 3 identical transformers
[02:50:04] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/psu1.jpg
[02:50:09] <Tom_itx> 2 of the 3 shown there
[02:50:09] <Jymmm> if one xfmr is 32vac@8A you may not even need the second xfmr
[02:50:28] <Tom_itx> they are ~32v ac approx 6A
[02:50:37] <Tom_itx> ea
[02:50:40] <Tom_itx> x 3
[02:50:45] <Tom_itx> or 2
[02:50:52] <Jymmm> you might not even need a second xfmr
[02:50:58] <Tom_itx> but i was gonna use one per axis
[02:51:07] <Tom_itx> for later expansion
[02:51:14] <Jymmm> BEMF
[02:51:14] <Tom_itx> with a common ground
[02:51:22] <pcw_home> if you worry, check the voltage difference in the secondaries before you parallel
[02:51:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: BEMF
[02:51:40] <pcw_home> (differentially)
[02:52:07] <Tom_itx> pcw_home i just wondered if it was safe to parallel separate transformers
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[02:52:16] <Tom_itx> these were surplus
[02:52:20] <Tom_itx> so i got em
[02:52:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I seriosuly doubt you need more than one xfmr for all three axis
[02:52:59] <Tom_itx> Jymmm at 4A on the stepper driver?
[02:53:19] <Tom_itx> i know it doesn't draw all that unless you need it
[02:53:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: read that pdf, and you need to accoutn for BEMF and using multple PS does not do that
[02:53:37] <Tom_itx> i know a little about back emf
[02:54:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: then read the pdf
[02:54:37] <Jymmm> I beieve he talks about it in there
[02:56:01] <Jymmm> The easiest factor in choosing a power supply is its current rating, which is based on your motor
[02:56:01] <Jymmm> ratings. A motor control will always draw less than 2/3 of the motor’s rated current when it is parallel
[02:56:01] <Jymmm> (or half-winding) connected and 1/3 of the motor’s rated current when it is series (or full-winding)
[02:56:02] <Jymmm> connected. That is to say, a 6 amp per phase motor will require a 4 amp power supply when wired in
[02:56:04] <Jymmm> parallel and a 2 amp power supply when wired in series. If multiple motors and drives are used, add the
[02:56:06] <Jymmm> current requirements of each to arrive at the total power supply current rating.
[02:57:00] <Tom_itx> ok but the drivers are rated at 7A
[02:57:10] <Tom_itx> and i'm building this for future expansion
[02:57:26] <Jymmm> it's all in the pdf
[02:57:53] <Tom_itx> i'll read it
[02:58:06] <Tom_itx> later. i think if i tried now, i'd fall asleep in the middle
[02:59:13] <Tecan> i just bought a Item Title:NOK 037-XL-0471A-J Timing Belt what kinda pully would i need for it ?
[02:59:21] <Jymmm> pcw_home: in a buck boost circuit, whats the easiet way to shield/block/filter emi from everything around it?
[02:59:31] <alex4nder> lead
[02:59:32] <Jymmm> emi/rfi
[03:01:03] <pcw_home> first optimize PCB layout to minimize the size of high frequency high current loops
[03:01:19] <pcw_home> use shielded inductors
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[03:02:57] <pcw_home> high frequency capacitors across and ferrite beads in series with I/O
[03:04:44] <Thetawaves> the best way is to put at least 10kohm resistor in series, and TVS diodes between power, signal and ground
[03:05:19] <Thetawaves> and then a small capacitor to eliminate any remaining surges
[03:06:23] <Thetawaves> it's hard to do 10k ohm outputs, so you should at least use 10-20ohm resistor
[03:06:33] <pcw_home> I think jymmm is talking about radiated EMI. not ESD
[03:07:10] <Thetawaves> any length of wire will not be sufficiently protected in any circuit is connected to without that
[03:07:22] <Thetawaves> it is*
[03:07:56] <Thetawaves> should you have a 20 foot cable, you will be very disappointed to find that your electronics no longer work the morning after a thunder storm.
[03:12:01] <Thetawaves> ahhhh he wants to know about how to make a noise free power supply
[03:12:07] <Thetawaves> to which i say: good luck
[03:13:20] <Thetawaves> try a battery powered system in a metal case
[03:15:26] <Thetawaves> Jymmm, what do you want to do with your emi-less power supply
[03:15:49] <pcw_home> There are many low noise switching PS techniques but they all cost more (sine wave PS's for example)
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[03:16:05] <Thetawaves> i'm used to people complaining about dc-dc converters throwing out too much noise, not the other way around :-/
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[03:29:10] <ThadiusB> anyone here have any suggestions for computer fan control in 10.04??
[03:29:39] <ThadiusB> i know thats way off topic, sorry
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[03:31:39] <Jymmm> pcw_home: correct
[03:32:53] <Jymmm> pcw_home: so, ferrots and caps acros the output.
[03:33:24] <Jymmm> pcw_home: dont the ferrets need to be closest to the load?
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[04:01:20] <pcw_home> I would not suggest ferrets as they are messy and will chew through the wires
[04:04:31] <jdhnc> and they smell bad.
[04:06:10] <Tom_itx> ok i was wrong on the transformers. they're 37.4 vac on the secondaries
[04:06:44] <Tom_itx> that's about 53vdc right?
[04:07:00] <Tom_itx> no load
[04:12:15] <jdhnc> 52.89158723275375482512
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[04:14:26] <Tom_itx> that should be some improvement over the current 24v setup
[04:14:35] <Tom_itx> 24 28 i forget
[04:14:59] <jdhnc> what is the primary rated?
[04:15:00] <djdelorie> now it's 24+28 :-)
[04:15:37] <Tom_itx> jdhnc, i dunno these are surplus
[04:15:51] <Tom_itx> i was told they are rated for 6A
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[04:18:36] <jdhnc> did you measure teh 37.4?
[04:19:18] <Tom_itx> yes
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[04:28:49] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snOErpOP5Xk#t=1m21s
[04:28:57] <r00t4rd3d> im not sure how that happened
[04:29:35] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snOErpOP5Xk#t=1m21s
[04:29:40] <r00t4rd3d> err
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[06:33:30] <Jymmm> Who is it that does ATMEL's? http://www.geocities.jp/arduino_diecimila/obaka/project-2/index_en.html
[06:39:29] <djdelorie> www.atmel.com
[06:39:50] <Jymmm> lol, no someone on here works with AVRs
[06:40:12] <Jymmm> lol, no. Someone on here works with AVRs
[06:40:25] <Jymmm> I think it's Tom_itx
[06:42:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: one pin composite out from arduino
[06:42:58] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBXiZpuncg&feature=related
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[06:59:11] <DJ9DJ> moin
[07:03:00] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: hi
[07:03:22] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: BTW... GN8 is G NATE, not Good night =)
[07:03:23] <DJ9DJ> hi Jymmm
[07:03:33] <DJ9DJ> hehe
[07:04:08] <DJ9DJ> in german it its "gute nacht" and 8 is "acht"... so it works better ;)
[07:04:20] <DJ9DJ> so i have to write gn9 here ;)
[07:04:21] <Jymmm> ah
[07:04:35] <Jymmm> hahaha
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[08:55:38] <Loetmichel> morgäääääähn!
[08:56:03] <Loetmichel> ehrm... mornin'!
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[09:20:18] <Guest63042> linuxcnc.org/documentation has been entered by viagra-spam
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[11:17:25] <r00t4rd3d> awesome
[11:23:44] <r00t4rd3d> I have a pile of Arduino's
[11:24:14] <TekniQue> for balancing your desk on?
[11:27:33] <r00t4rd3d> nah, they catch all the dust in my house.
[11:31:02] <r00t4rd3d> who uses a TB6560 controller?
[11:33:28] <r00t4rd3d> I really hope it works well for me. I dont want to buy a g540.
[11:34:37] <r00t4rd3d> cheaping out on nothing but the electronics should be cool right?
[11:35:04] <ReadError> g540 is pretty sweetr
[11:35:09] <ReadError> hooked up easy
[11:35:15] <r00t4rd3d> pretty expensive too
[11:48:54] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190606079584?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[11:49:02] <r00t4rd3d> that seem like a good multimeter?
[11:50:17] <archivist> and we get whiners trying to get TB6560s going properly
[11:50:38] <archivist> alex_joni, site seems hacked again
[11:51:02] <r00t4rd3d> newbs
[11:54:36] <Valen> where would i put a sandwich in a linux file system
[11:55:14] <r00t4rd3d> the fat table
[11:56:22] <Valen> pretty sure thats not a part of the linux file system you know / and all that jaz
[11:56:33] <Valen> I need somewhere to dd a sandwich to
[11:57:15] <archivist> sudo make me a sammich
[11:57:17] <Jymmm> /dev/nul
[11:57:44] <Valen> archivist: its a comment on a comment with that comment ;->
[11:58:32] <archivist> to understand recursion you need to understand recursion
[11:59:52] <r00t4rd3d> i got bored last night:
[11:59:53] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/V6ggD
[12:00:05] <Jymmm> Is that anything like you die to live and live to die?
[12:02:26] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: how thick is the mdf and aluminum bar?
[12:02:36] <r00t4rd3d> 3/4 - 1/4
[12:02:59] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: do you have a way to tension the bearings?
[12:03:11] <Valen> dd if=/dev/sandwich of=/dev/
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[12:03:12] <Valen> ???
[12:03:35] <Jymmm> Valen: /dev/null
[12:03:42] <r00t4rd3d> yeah. That gantry was just to test
[12:03:47] <Valen> see null is kinda harsh
[12:03:53] <Valen> I want the sandwich
[12:04:09] <Valen> of=~/later ?
[12:04:09] <r00t4rd3d> im going to cut it down today so its about 4" off my table
[12:04:20] * archivist has the sandwich
[12:05:33] <r00t4rd3d> Jymmm, when you say tension the bearings what do you mean?
[12:05:41] <r00t4rd3d> tighten them to the rail?
[12:05:50] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: basically, yes
[12:06:03] <Valen> generally you use pairs of bearings and load them up against each other to get rid of backlash
[12:06:09] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: ability to remove any ply
[12:06:09] <r00t4rd3d> yeah there is adjustment screws
[12:06:28] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/linear-carriage-with-abec-7-bearings-p-33.html?cPath=21
[12:06:55] <r00t4rd3d> and if you really want to read up on them
[12:06:57] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/linear-carriage-adjustment-p-100.html?cPath=24
[12:07:53] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[12:07:57] <ReadError> you seen the maker slide?
[12:08:07] <r00t4rd3d> i think so
[12:08:22] <ReadError> http://www.makerslide.com/
[12:08:30] <ReadError> you can make your frame out of 80/20 and those
[12:08:55] <r00t4rd3d> https://www.inventables.com/technologies/cnc-mill-kits-shapeoko
[12:09:08] <r00t4rd3d> 16hours!
[12:10:14] <r00t4rd3d> you cant even buy that stuff yet though
[12:10:29] <r00t4rd3d> soon
[12:10:52] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: how wide is your bearing mounting blocks?
[12:11:38] <r00t4rd3d> 1" with the bearing
[12:11:45] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/cad/pdf/CRP101-00.pdf
[12:12:06] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: No, I mean the blocks themselves, 6"?
[12:12:28] <r00t4rd3d> how long? 4.5"
[12:12:54] <r00t4rd3d> they make longer ones too
[12:12:56] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: and how long is your 1/4" thick rails?
[12:13:15] <r00t4rd3d> 36"
[12:13:16] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/extended-linear-carriage-with-abec-7-bearings-p-35.html?cPath=21
[12:13:46] <r00t4rd3d> that one is almost 9" long
[12:13:57] <ReadError> you dont think you need a longer one?
[12:14:11] <r00t4rd3d> My mom said it was average.
[12:14:26] <ReadError> oh ok
[12:14:41] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: your mom isn't going to be the one laying with it though
[12:14:49] <Jymmm> playing
[12:15:06] <ReadError> hey now he has a 'special' relationship
[12:15:31] <r00t4rd3d> My uncle is also my brother
[12:15:42] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: so is your sister
[12:15:49] <r00t4rd3d> thats my cousin
[12:15:56] <Jymmm> your child
[12:16:16] <Jymmm> your child is your fathers brother
[12:17:14] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: with only being 4.5" apart, I think you're ging to have a hell of a lot of stress when your table is at the ends
[12:17:57] <r00t4rd3d> i dont get you
[12:18:49] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: When the end of your table is touching the end of the bearing block, your bearings are going to be under a LOT of stress
[12:18:56] <r00t4rd3d> oh
[12:19:24] <Jymmm> If your bearing block was 9" long, much less stress
[12:19:29] <r00t4rd3d> I can set the gantry on one end and push it right off the other with a slight push
[12:19:51] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: But push it to 99.999% off
[12:19:56] <Jymmm> and leave it there
[12:20:15] <r00t4rd3d> i can add another 4.5 carriage or get some extended ones if I have issues
[12:20:26] <r00t4rd3d> Im only going to start off wit a Dremel so...
[12:20:34] <Jymmm> you might even find dimples in your aluminum the next day
[12:21:04] <r00t4rd3d> they say to use cold rolled steel for those but I wanted to be different.
[12:21:23] <r00t4rd3d> and its easier to drill
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[12:22:30] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: Ok, grab the end of your rails like you would a steering wheel and hold it in the air for 5 minutes
[12:22:47] <r00t4rd3d> for what
[12:22:51] <ReadError> shouldnt it be longer on the side that holds the router?
[12:23:13] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: to understand why I'm mentioning it
[12:24:43] <r00t4rd3d> I have a couple extra rods and pillow blocks if shit goes down
[12:26:34] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLfHb9LRWuc
[12:26:44] <r00t4rd3d> i got the carriage idea from that guy
[12:27:11] <r00t4rd3d> he uses 4 but has alot more going on then me
[12:27:43] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: I'm not commenting on the design, just the length of the bearing blocks
[12:28:27] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: the mdf and 1/4" are going to be really heavy alone
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[13:46:57] <alcx> can anybody tell me why i see viagra-spam when i browse http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/documentation
[13:47:22] <alcx> with text browser only ( lynx, w3m )?
[13:47:32] <psha> where exactly?
[13:47:35] <psha> on that page?
[13:47:58] <alcx> the page is complete different
[13:48:23] <psha> probably corrupted /etc/hosts file?
[13:48:44] <Jymmm> what is the date at the bottom of the page?
[13:48:46] <psha> usual case on windows machines )
[13:49:17] <alcx> i use a mobile machine right now - maemo
[13:49:29] <Jymmm> alcx: what is the date/time at the bottom of the page?
[13:49:54] <Jymmm> "Last Update on..."
[13:51:15] <alcx> with lynx i see as date today
[13:52:44] <psha> hm, i've 03.04.2012
[13:52:50] <psha> 20:19
[13:52:57] <psha> Last Updated on Tuesday, 03 April 2012 20:19
[13:53:34] <alcx> with grafical browser 3 april. and the page looks allright
[13:54:00] <alcx> i see spam only in lynx / w3m
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[13:57:32] <alcx> /etc/hosts is ok
[13:58:40] <fliebel> Is there a general cnc channel? I'm just asking general CNC stuff in here most of the time, which I'm not sure is appropriate.
[14:01:25] <ReadError> dns server?
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[14:03:53] <r00t4rd3d> fliebel, this is it
[14:04:05] <jdhnc> fliebel: that's about 60% of all here.
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[14:04:14] <Guest53386> dns server is 8.8.8.8 which is from goole
[14:04:17] <r00t4rd3d> there is like #diycnc i think
[14:04:28] <r00t4rd3d> but its dead
[14:04:31] <Guest53386> google
[14:05:13] <r00t4rd3d> fliebel, the talk here is pretty open though
[14:05:23] <r00t4rd3d> from what ive seen atleast
[14:05:49] <r00t4rd3d> ive never asked anything emc related :)
[14:06:02] <r00t4rd3d> i dont even have it installed.
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[14:06:14] <r00t4rd3d> i dont even have my router built
[14:06:23] <r00t4rd3d> where am i?
[14:06:31] <Jymmm> mars
[14:07:22] <r00t4rd3d> i marked all my stuff now i just have to cut it
[14:07:28] <fliebel> Cool, so here we go, with a stupid question: How do you mill standalone objects? I'm having fun turning wood to sawdust, but eventually, I'd like some objects that are, you know, separate from the rest of the plank.
[14:07:59] <r00t4rd3d> 3d printer
[14:08:05] <r00t4rd3d> :)
[14:08:34] <jdhnc> leave tabs, use hold downs, tape, vacuum table, fingers, holes
[14:09:02] <r00t4rd3d> ive seen lots of people use clear packing tape lol
[14:09:15] <fliebel> jdhnc: tabs, hold downs?
[14:09:25] <r00t4rd3d> ie clamps
[14:09:38] <r00t4rd3d> they make table clamps
[14:09:50] <jdhnc> don't cut all the way through, leave a few places where z doesn't go through. Most CAM packages will generate them.
[14:10:05] <jdhnc> put holes in the inside part and screw it to the spoilboard
[14:10:13] <fliebel> I saw an option in PyCAM to generate support things...
[14:10:14] <r00t4rd3d> then use your one good tooth to bite out the tabs
[14:10:18] <jdhnc> hold it with your fingers as it makes the final cut :)
[14:10:48] <jdhnc> don't cut the last few thou and sand/snap it off
[14:11:27] <jdhnc> let it cut and hope for the best as it finally breaks free and either goes flying or gets gouged by the cutter.
[14:11:47] <Jymmm> or both
[14:11:47] <fliebel> Ok, thanks for the inspiration. :)
[14:12:05] <fliebel> Now I "just" have to configure PyCam correctly.
[14:12:46] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/PdfNx.jpg
[14:13:12] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: self portrait?
[14:13:55] <r00t4rd3d> i can do stuff
[14:14:46] <pcw_home> same thing here. its hacked
[14:15:30] <r00t4rd3d> i just got offered to extend my membership with viagra
[14:15:39] <pcw_home> (documentation page)
[14:16:04] <Jymmm> pcw_home: can you post a scrncap?
[14:17:19] <pcw_home> this is with lynx its fine with FF
[14:17:32] <pcw_home> text of the page?
[14:17:43] <Jymmm> no that's ok
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[14:36:14] <pcw_home> also a viagra ad if you change your user agent to search robot
[14:38:38] <Jymmm> Yeah, I think I found the cause
[14:40:42] <pcw_home> another joomla vulnerability? (theres a April 18 date in the ad)
[14:40:47] <Jymmm> I meantioned what needed to be done over the last 3-4 years, but eh
[14:41:34] <pcw_home> "Posted: 03.20.2012 18:03 by Gilson"
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[14:42:14] <pcw_home> SQL injection?
[14:43:00] <archivist> or a joomla vulnerability
[14:43:20] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Website is STILL hacked/fucked up (view in lynx) get rid of that ADMIN link and go thrut he database MANUALLY, yes it will take hours. I'm getting tired of mentioning this year after year
[14:43:53] <Jymmm> alex_joni: View in lynx --> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/documentation
[14:44:11] <Jymmm> or both
[14:44:13] <archivist> I could test for sql injection as I have a tool here but one does not let it loose without people knowing
[14:44:46] <pcw_home> or in FF with googlebot user agent if you want to see its full glory
[14:45:09] <Jymmm> I think it got hacked way back, but there was residual left behind allowing for a "back door" or sorts. and that's why it keeps getting re-hacked
[14:45:16] <archivist> sounds like the same problem as a few months ago
[14:45:20] <Jymmm> *of sorts
[14:45:52] <Jymmm> Right, but nobody went thru the db or code to look for residue (aka back door)
[14:45:56] <archivist> one cannot run joomla and other cms's without some baby sitting and work
[14:46:19] <pcw_home> probably only meant to be seen by robots lynx was a mistake
[14:48:22] <Jymmm> I dont want to install liveheaders to test it
[14:48:34] <Jymmm> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/live-http-headers/
[14:49:46] <Jymmm> But if one of you want to, then you can see what, if anything, is doing the redirection/doanload to find the exact culprit. There are a LOT of offsite links
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[14:51:51] <archivist> it just shows different content depending on your user agent, dont think redirects are involved
[14:52:06] <pcw_home> looks like some versions of joomla would execute php in .jpg files hiding in the image directory
[14:52:47] <Jymmm> It downloads a file: L15482-4328TMP.html.gz
[14:52:57] <Jymmm> that fiel contains the viagra stuff.
[14:53:18] <Jymmm> something is regenerating that file with a random filename
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[14:53:50] <Jymmm> the .gz I believe is just the httpd's compression
[14:54:34] <Jymmm> so somewhere on the webserver's file system is a L15482-*.html file
[14:55:44] <Jymmm> But, where the 302 redirect is coming from I have no idea, I dont have the tools setup to look.
[14:56:30] <Jymmm> or some other selective method
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[15:00:34] <Jymmm> reviews.libraryjournal.com is one of the urls and sets a cookie letting them know what website has been efectively hacked
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[15:14:30] <pcw_home> hmm the documentation page is but the tip of the iceberg...
[15:22:40] <Tom_itx> Jymmm sometimes if you want something done you must take it upon yourself
[15:25:53] <archivist> first you need admin rights
[15:27:19] <Tom_itx> well drat
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[15:35:48] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/ukIeN.jpg
[15:35:51] <r00t4rd3d> better?
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[15:42:38] <r00t4rd3d> Jymmm
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[15:47:56] <r00t4rd3d> i wanna hook a servo to a syringe, fill it with frosting and have it write and draw on cake.
[15:57:02] <A0Sheds> MDF + food, not exactly NSF
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[16:10:07] <r00t4rd3d> ill bribe the health inspector with cake
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[16:39:49] <joe9> any suggestions on what I am doing wrong? http://codepad.org/qd0uwS6a I cannot get the rectangle closed in the backplot of axis.
[16:41:25] <Tom_itx> rounding error in diameter offset of tool?
[16:41:56] <joe9> G01 X-0.1 Y-0.1 F1
[16:42:09] <joe9> if i move the line after the G40, then it closes the rectangle.
[16:42:51] <Tom_itx> feed is modal too
[16:42:55] <Tom_itx> you don't need to repeat it
[16:43:07] <joe9> ok, thanks. will correct the feed.
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[16:43:39] <joe9> Tom_itx: is it correct to move the above line (return to start position) to after the G40.
[16:43:44] <ReadError> oh wow
[16:43:46] <Tom_itx> same with the coordinates but that varies among machines
[16:43:48] <ReadError> hand generated gcode
[16:44:58] <joe9> Tom_itx: I do not understand the last line. can you please restate, if you do not mind?
[16:44:58] <Tom_itx> why do you want diameter offset?
[16:45:09] <joe9> Tom_itx: updated code http://codepad.org/Pj0lJsej
[16:45:35] <joe9> Tom_itx: I read about "cutter radius offset" and I want to get a rectangle of 0.10 x 5inch.
[16:45:50] <joe9> without the cutter radius reducing the size.
[16:45:51] <Tom_itx> if you have a move of G1 x0, y0 then G1 x0, y1 you don't need to repeat the x0
[16:45:59] <Tom_itx> on most machines
[16:46:15] <joe9> Tom_itx: yes, I agree on that. I was just using that to help with the code reading.
[16:46:39] <joe9> not sure if it actually helps. it feels that it helps to have an (x,y) position for each step.
[16:46:44] <Tom_itx> i think it's easier to read changes
[16:47:00] <Tom_itx> but it doesn't matter much
[16:47:31] <Tom_itx> what's your D1 offset value?
[16:47:45] <joe9> G20 G10 L1 P1 Z0 R0.0625
[16:47:57] <joe9> doesn't this line set it to 0.125 = diameter?
[16:48:02] <joe9> or, am I wrong?
[16:48:06] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[16:48:10] <Tom_itx> i'd have to look
[16:48:17] <Tom_itx> i don't have em all memorized
[16:48:27] <Tom_itx> i use cad cam most of the time
[16:48:38] <cradek> joe9: did you see the examples in the docs at http://linuxcnc.org/docview/2.5/html/gcode/tool_compensation.html#sec:cutter-radius-compensation
[16:48:55] <cradek> they show cutting inside and outside a rectangle
[16:49:33] <Tom_itx> if the D1 value is non zero it may not close the rectangle
[16:49:41] <Tom_itx> cutter comp
[16:49:43] <joe9> cradek: no, I did not see the examples. will check them out.
[16:49:45] <joe9> thanks.
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[17:17:01] <alex4nder> hey
[17:21:31] <joe9> cradek: i like this book and am using it for getting up to speed. wondering if you recommend anything else http://www.amazon.com/CNC-Programming-Handbook-Third-Edition/dp/0831133473
[17:21:36] <joe9> alex4nder: hello.
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[17:26:41] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the green globe
[17:31:50] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: hello, how are you today sir?
[17:32:35] <IchGuckLive> good thanks april wether outside raining in waveforms
[17:33:05] <kb8wmc> lol, sunshine here today but only 55 F.
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[17:44:32] <alex4nder> joe9: how's it?
[18:02:54] <joe9> alex4nder: asking about the "CNC Programming Handbook"?
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[18:04:16] <joe9> alex4nder: awesome book, imho. I borrowed it from the local library. there are free e-book copies floating around. I am thinking of buying one now.
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[19:25:52] <alex4nder> joe9: oh yah? you haven't been happy with the LinuxCNC docs?
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[19:59:02] <isssy> hi all
[19:59:09] <isssy> look that http://www.commell.com.tw/product/SBC/LP-172.HTM#Overview
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[20:05:31] <Loetmichel> isssy: looks nice... but no parallel ports
[20:05:37] <isssy> no need
[20:05:42] <isssy> pf parport
[20:05:49] <Loetmichel> pf?
[20:06:03] <isssy> in 1 or 2 months pcw will release 7i43 but lan version
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[20:06:18] <isssy> parport ,
[20:07:49] <Loetmichel> *wait*
[20:08:35] <Loetmichel> isssy: you wanted to say?
[20:09:59] <isssy> that mesa will have new card - lan based instead parport
[20:10:25] <isssy> but if you insist on parport , there is mini pci-e - parport cards
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[20:11:15] <andypugh> I can't find a component to split an int into bits. Surely we have one?
[20:11:55] <cradek> classicladder can do bitwise math
[20:12:07] <Loetmichel> isssy: do i look like rockefeller?
[20:12:08] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[20:12:42] <Loetmichel> mesa is much to expensive for me cheap bastard, and not needed fpr small steppers
[20:12:46] <Loetmichel> anyway
[20:13:14] <isssy> depend what you need to do. i am using servos on big machines and steppers are not for me
[20:13:15] <andypugh> cradek: Aye, I guess that is one solution. I am trying to answer a query on the forum. An inverse-version of "weighted-sum" is what is required.
[20:13:41] <andypugh> Loetmichel: 5i25 is not a lot more than a parport card, and does a lot more.
[20:13:58] <Loetmichel> andypugh: not in germany ;-)=
[20:14:43] <Loetmichel> isssy: my actual machine: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[20:14:57] <isssy> yea , he is right , to import mesa cards in europa is more expencive than the card itself
[20:17:32] <Loetmichel> the machine i am building for a friend: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13131
[20:18:12] <Loetmichel> THERE i could have used the mini mainboard, because the SBC i have buildt in it is a press fit...
[20:18:15] <andypugh> I can only find them for sale as a kit with the 7i76, but presumably that means that they have stock just over the border in Austria: http://www.retrofit-plus.at/store/7i76-plug-n-go
[20:18:30] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13113
[20:20:29] <archivist> andypugh, "5i25 is not a lot more than a parport card" how is your maths?
[20:20:49] <archivist> 219 euro
[20:20:50] <isssy> my smaller machine is 1meter by 2 meters and the big 30 meters by 2,5 meters
[20:21:20] <isssy> the german site is selling them 4 times more expencive than mesa
[20:21:24] <andypugh> It's about $80 for just the 5i25. Which is ÂŁ40 (using approximate maths) which is a good night on the beer in an expensive pub...
[20:21:41] <CareBear\> $80 in beers?
[20:21:54] <andypugh> I get thirsty
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[20:22:13] <archivist> I cant afford going to a pub, thats about a weeks earnings
[20:22:16] <isssy> hey , andy is from the uk , have some mercy
[20:22:16] <CareBear\> that's.. 60 eur; 25 beers
[20:22:26] <CareBear\> I'm swedish
[20:22:33] <CareBear\> but live in germany now
[20:22:45] <CareBear\> I always bring way too much cash to the bars
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[20:23:10] <CareBear\> beer can easily be 7 eur in sweden
[20:23:12] <Loetmichel> sorry, that was wrong /s
[20:23:16] <CareBear\> here? 2.50
[20:23:18] <Loetmichel> s/pub / nightclub ;-)
[20:23:23] <CareBear\> club pub bar whatever
[20:23:26] <Loetmichel> should that have been ;-)
[20:23:52] <CareBear\> alcohol serving place of entertainment
[20:24:25] <andypugh> CareBear\: €8 in Rovaniemi
[20:24:57] <isssy> in BG is0,85 euro
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[20:30:07] <CareBear\> isssy : in bars or in the supermarket?
[20:30:19] <CareBear\> at the supermarket it's 85 cent in germany as well
[20:31:10] <isssy> supermarket , in the bars is 1,5 euro
[20:31:16] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: I'd like to do that too
[20:31:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: did you see the arduino one wire composite output?
[20:31:52] <Tom_itx> no
[20:32:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: scroll back thru yout logs
[20:32:33] <Tom_itx> that's a dallas (tm) protocol
[20:32:46] <Tom_itx> err ti?
[20:32:56] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: not one Wire (tm), single pin
[20:33:14] <Tom_itx> why would i want composite?
[20:33:31] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: dont ask why, just go look
[20:34:04] <pfred1> why would Tom_itx want composite?
[20:34:12] <Tom_itx> i always ask why
[20:34:19] <Tom_itx> the govt tells me not to ask why too
[20:34:25] * pfred1 asks for Tom_itx
[20:34:33] * Tom_itx thanks pfred1
[20:34:37] <pfred1> np
[20:34:56] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i don't see it in my screen buffer and that's as far back as i'm gonna look
[20:35:10] <Jymmm> fine my me
[20:35:15] <Jymmm> by
[20:35:33] <Jymmm> it wasn't for MY benefit.
[20:35:41] <Tom_itx> mkay, thanks
[20:36:24] <Tom_itx> sry if i seem a bit crabby. I am.
[20:36:45] <pfred1> I'm tired and I can get cranky when I get tired
[20:38:13] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:38:20] <Jymmm> gn9
[20:38:21] <DJ9DJ> eeeeeeeh... gn9 Jymmm! ;)
[20:38:26] <DJ9DJ> hehe
[20:38:33] <Jymmm> =)
[20:38:53] <DJ9DJ> cya guys :)
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[20:38:57] <Loetmichel> CareBear\: i was in Norway and denmark with the ship i did my military service on
[20:39:17] <pfred1> Loetmichel who did you invade?
[20:39:23] <alex4nder> CareBear\: have you built a mill yet?
[20:39:36] <Loetmichel> one souce of incom was to sell the monthly bottle of to the danish/norwegian ppl
[20:39:45] <alex4nder> haha
[20:40:23] <Loetmichel> buy a bottle hard alcohol (remy martin fro example) on the ship (taxfree) for 17DM , sell for abut 180 ;-)
[20:40:28] <pfred1> Loetmichel we're ready for you http://paulgazis.com/Humor/Vikings.htm
[20:40:36] <Loetmichel> pfred1: noon
[20:40:37] <Loetmichel> e
[20:41:10] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: you got a montly bottle in the military?
[20:41:36] <Loetmichel> (exept a bar in scotland where a comrade got bandly beaten up at friday, so the whole ship was there the next day and "told them to dont do taht again witnh a german soldier"
[20:42:05] <Loetmichel> ... the pub hat da letter on the door "closed for rebuild" the next day;-)
[20:42:15] <Loetmichel> alex4nder: right
[20:43:26] <alex4nder> crazy
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[20:51:21] <andypugh> (It seemed to work out OK)
[20:51:29] <pfred1> ultra was possibly the most pivitol strategic ace in the war
[20:51:34] <Loetmichel> andypugh: its possible to talk entirely in caps. the most double menaing is to far apart to get misunderstood
[20:51:45] <pfred1> the dumb jerries kept using their codes up until the end
[20:51:52] <Loetmichel> but there is a lot of puns which use it, of course ;-)
[20:52:11] <Loetmichel> whats a jerry?
[20:52:50] <pfred1> Loetmichel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerrycan
[20:53:29] <andypugh> Interesting that a huge weakness of Enigma was that no letter could ever code to itself, so all you had to do was run the permutations and reject any combination where cyphertext and plaintext had the same letter in the same place.
[20:53:50] <pfred1> it was the poles who really broke the code
[20:54:13] <pfred1> then they gave all their data to the British
[20:54:39] <CareBear\> man..
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[20:54:53] <CareBear\> As of January 10, 2009 all portable fuel containers are required to conform to two new regulations: 2. They must meet the requirements of the Children’s Gasoline Burn Prevention Act.
[20:55:00] <Loetmichel> [22:51] <pfred1> the dumb jerries kept using their codes up until the end <- still dont understand
[20:55:30] <CareBear\> some kid got burned and now there is a *law*
[20:55:41] <pfred1> Loetmichel the allies called the Nazis jerries
[20:55:41] <andypugh> Loetmichel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_(WWII)#Jerry He was being willfully offensive.
[20:55:49] <CareBear\> poor kid of course, but a *law* ?! only in the US
[20:55:59] <Loetmichel> pfred1: ah, NOW i am getting it
[20:56:12] <Loetmichel> CareBear\: no, germans tend to do the same thing
[20:56:14] <pfred1> andypugh hey at least I didn't say Fritz
[20:56:20] <alex4nder> or kraut
[20:56:27] <alex4nder> I would have been offended.
[20:56:32] <pfred1> alex4nder yes hun comes to mind too
[20:56:35] <CareBear\> I would have been hungry.
[20:56:38] <alex4nder> haha
[20:56:55] <pfred1> I think that is what Patton called them
[20:57:44] <Loetmichel> tahts ok, we call english ppl still "Tommies" ;-)
[20:57:51] <pfred1> maybe we should make non-flammable gasoline?
[20:58:03] <pfred1> then nobody will get hurt
[20:58:04] <andypugh> Inselaffe
[20:58:14] <Loetmichel> pfred1: already invented for Jet fuel
[20:58:23] <Jymmm> pfred1: who says it's flammable?
[20:58:42] <Loetmichel> andypugh: and that, if one wants to be especially nasty
[20:58:54] <pfred1> I'm going to keep on using my same old beat up 5 gallon can to get gas for my tractor
[20:59:40] <Jymmm> oh, you talking those new safety cans?
[20:59:42] <andypugh> I have a German girlfriend. It does make for the occasional awkward conversation "This is a really ugly town" / "Well, it was quite nice until your lot bombed it" / "Well, you started it" :-)
[21:00:06] <pfred1> yeah the brits were for indiscriminate carpet bombing
[21:00:16] <Loetmichel> andypugh: hihi, i can imagine ;-)
[21:00:27] <pfred1> the first time the germans bombed london it was by mistake
[21:00:47] <andypugh> They were aiming for Moscow?
[21:00:58] <pfred1> they weren't aiming for london
[21:01:05] <Loetmichel> pfred1: i THINK the germans and the brits are noone to put blame here
[21:01:08] <Loetmichel> or on both sides
[21:01:14] <pfred1> in WW2 most bombs landed more than 5 miles off target
[21:01:15] <Loetmichel> that was a WAR goddamit.
[21:01:45] <andypugh> pfred1: London is quite a lot bigger than 5 miles diameter.
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[21:02:02] <pfred1> andypugh they were probably trying to hit an air field outside london
[21:02:08] <Loetmichel> there is a proverb here: "in war and in love everything is allowed"
[21:02:25] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Indeed, and none of us here had anything to do with it.
[21:02:29] <Loetmichel> right
[21:02:36] <pfred1> actually the only thing that saved england was germany switching to bomging london after it all blew up
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[21:03:05] <pfred1> was a terrible strategic blunder not to finish off the raf when they had the chance
[21:03:29] <Loetmichel> pfred1: the whole thing was a strategic desaster
[21:03:35] <pfred1> not all of it
[21:03:42] <pfred1> france fell quickly
[21:03:43] <Loetmichel> ok, whats to expect from a austrian private?
[21:03:55] <Loetmichel> +n
[21:04:02] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: shrimp on a barbie?
[21:04:09] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Giant beer?
[21:04:10] <Loetmichel> ?
[21:04:20] <Jymmm> I red it as .au
[21:04:22] <pfred1> it was that war monger churchill that i blame
[21:04:23] <Jymmm> read
[21:04:30] <Loetmichel> austrian, not australian
[21:04:37] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I see that now =)
[21:04:40] <alex4nder> haha
[21:04:47] <alex4nder> yah, I blame Australia for WWII
[21:04:56] <Jymmm> though it would be funny if austrian did the australlian thing
[21:05:10] <Loetmichel> hitler was a private in the austrian army before ruling germany
[21:05:36] <Loetmichel> private-> second lowest rank, "gefreiter" in germany
[21:05:50] <pfred1> Loetmichel he was a higher grade than that he was a corporal
[21:05:55] <Jymmm> are there still places in EU where dud bombs can still be found?
[21:05:57] <pfred1> won the iron cross too
[21:06:15] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: in germany: ervery 2 weeks or so
[21:06:33] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: in the ground or in bunkers/silos?
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[21:06:36] <pfred1> he would have advanced further too except his superiors didn't think he had the character for rank
[21:06:47] <Loetmichel> last time about 4 weeks ago the rhine was blocked because 2 bombs were found in the river bed
[21:07:08] <Jymmm> ah, but not in random fields?
[21:07:15] <andypugh> Aye, we keep finding them here.
[21:07:16] <Loetmichel> oh, i thought dud meant "fallen, but not detonated"
[21:07:28] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: correct
[21:07:32] <andypugh> Quite often during building work in London.
[21:07:33] <Loetmichel> in random fields also
[21:07:39] <Loetmichel> and under buildings
[21:07:40] <Jymmm> ok
[21:07:53] <pfred1> as much bombing as took place in WW2 it is nothing compared to today
[21:08:13] <Jymmm> pfred1: I was thinking vietnam war
[21:08:24] <Loetmichel> i read somewhre tha amiericans had dropped more bombs in iraq on one day than have fallen in the ENTIRE ww2
[21:08:27] <pfred1> yeah in vietnam we used some ordinance
[21:08:57] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Maybe in yield, but I very much doubt in number.
[21:09:00] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I think vietnam was worse than iraq
[21:09:04] <pfred1> one B-52 can carry what 10 WW2 bombers could
[21:09:16] <Loetmichel> but as the advance in technology is: i doubt that as much as in ww2 are "dud"
[21:09:20] <andypugh> pfred1: Yes, but you don't have thousands of B52s
[21:09:30] <pfred1> andypugh I don't know about that
[21:09:33] <Loetmichel> andypugh: in tonnes, of coures, not number
[21:09:47] <Loetmichel> course
[21:09:51] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yeah, we have FedEx now for overnight delivery, 10am guanrteed
[21:09:59] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: HARHAR
[21:10:02] <Jymmm> =)
[21:10:26] <pfred1> andypugh on top of it we more into precision guided munitions today it took so many bombs ot hit a target in WW2 now we get it first shot
[21:11:09] <pfred1> one bomb that hits is way better than 100 that miss
[21:11:43] <andypugh> Anyway, what really spoilt it for the Nazis (lets blame them, not the nice Germans) was Japan. Though quite _why_ Pearl Harbour meant that the US was at war with Germany is something of a mystery to me. The US could have finished the Pacific war in no time if they hadn't decided to sort out Europe first.
[21:12:28] <pfred1> the USA had been bullying Japan since the early 30s
[21:13:16] <Jymmm> bullying?
[21:13:21] <Loetmichel> andypugh: letzs put it this way: if hitler had listened to his more seroius generals all of you would speak german today.
[21:13:22] <pfred1> roosevelt was doing all he could to actually get into the war no matter what he said
[21:13:29] <Jymmm> ah
[21:13:38] <pfred1> Jymmm sure we weren't allowing htem to get oil or other natural resources
[21:13:46] <Loetmichel> lets greet the fackt taht hitler was so egomanic ;-)
[21:13:59] <pfred1> we were totally screwing woth them
[21:14:11] <Jymmm> pfred1: Ah, I didn't know.
[21:14:23] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Aye, we were discussing that in the bar last night, how depressign it must have been for career generals to be forced to follow the plans of politicians.
[21:15:15] <pfred1> I donno early on the german generals were against then after early success pretty much for the Nazis
[21:15:55] <pfred1> it was only after things went bad again that some went against again
[21:17:01] <Loetmichel> pfred1: hit should have made his peace with either russians OR brits
[21:17:14] <Loetmichel> then no force would have stopped him
[21:17:28] <pfred1> he tried with the brits and the peace he wanted to make with the commies was to kill them all
[21:17:29] <andypugh> I think that they never quite got over seeing the UK as natural allies.
[21:17:49] <pfred1> so you could say he tried pertty hard there too
[21:18:17] <Loetmichel> and after he would have conolidated his land gains in euirope and africa there woulb be no force big enough to stop then, considering the tell-tal german ingeneuety in desinging better weapins
[21:18:20] <Loetmichel> weapons
[21:18:30] <cpresser> as you all know, the nazis havent been defeated. they build a base on the dark side of the moon
[21:18:35] <pfred1> Loetmichel the USA would have crushed him
[21:18:45] <cpresser> spaceships with anti-gravity drives...
[21:19:17] <pfred1> Loetmichel you don't know how many Americans of German descent there really are here :)
[21:19:23] <Loetmichel> pfred1: i want to belive that but i dont think they had the reccources one hitler had conuered half europe
[21:19:38] <Loetmichel> once
[21:19:44] <Loetmichel> conquered
[21:20:10] <pfred1> the Nazis never understood the scale of economics
[21:20:21] <pfred1> the whole war they made what 6,000 tanks?
[21:20:31] <Loetmichel> cpresser: first the dark side of the moon isnt dark
[21:20:52] <Loetmichel> second: that fuilm has more holes in it than the titanic ;-)
[21:20:55] <Loetmichel> film
[21:21:13] <cpresser> but it sounds cool. they even hav a moon highway^^
[21:21:17] <Loetmichel> pfred1: 6000 tanks of the german tiger variant are enough ;-)
[21:21:24] <pfred1> apparently not
[21:21:36] <pfred1> not when we made 60,000 shermans
[21:21:43] <Loetmichel> pfred1: not for a 2 front war
[21:22:08] <Loetmichel> oh, they would have been sufficient to kill 10 times the shermans
[21:22:16] <pfred1> a tiger might be able to take out 20 shermans but the 21st is gonna get him
[21:22:24] <Loetmichel> but not if the majority of them was bound in russia
[21:22:47] <pfred1> it happened time after time
[21:22:48] <Loetmichel> pfred1: totally right
[21:22:50] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[21:22:54] <Loetmichel> do the math ;-)
[21:23:39] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte
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[21:23:56] <Loetmichel> what really puzzled me: i have personnally shot a american ".45 peacemaker" rebuild
[21:24:07] <pfred1> heh yeah I seen this thing I thought it was called the maus
[21:24:28] <Loetmichel> ... wit bullets that have a V0 of 1040m/s... and are supposed to break 38mm armor steel...
[21:24:36] <pfred1> the germans put too much faith into super weapons
[21:24:55] <Loetmichel> whats a mindset to create a small arm that can cope with a tank?
[21:25:00] <andypugh> pfred1: The Ratte was 5x as big as the Maus.
[21:25:18] <pfred1> andypugh ah I see this was one of their pipe dreams?
[21:25:24] <andypugh> Indeed.
[21:25:41] <pfred1> the maus was stupid enough of an idea
[21:25:54] <pfred1> daneg thing would have just sank int othe ground
[21:26:27] <pfred1> yeah the T-34 really shocked and scared the germans
[21:26:44] <cpresser> fortunately hitler tried to push some of those insane projects. just imagine what would have happend if people like speer would have established efficient mass production in early war (pre 42)
[21:26:53] <pfred1> it influenced the design of the panther a lot but not enough
[21:27:11] <Loetmichel> pfred1: i dont think so
[21:27:31] <pfred1> cpresser that was a big factor the germans were always playing catch up they never fully comprehended the scale of the war in time
[21:27:34] <Loetmichel> if the tracks are wide eough the monster would have less ground pressure than an car
[21:27:40] <psha> heh, also don't miss early t34 with t34-85
[21:27:53] <pfred1> up until the last few months of the war they kept on increasing their production
[21:29:14] <cpresser> pfred1: it was quite lucky for the german war-efforts that fritz todt died in a plane crash. after that speer took over war-production and started massive rationalization programs.
[21:29:19] <pfred1> if the germans had gotten on the stick earlier maybe they'd have cone a little better?
[21:29:38] <Loetmichel> pfred1: yeah, thats what i meant by "if he had time to consolodate his land winnings he would be nearly unstoppable
[21:29:39] <cpresser> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Produktion_von_Panzerwagen_in_Deutschland_1941-1944_ver.2.png
[21:29:42] <pfred1> done a little better even
[21:30:00] <pfred1> Loetmichel the thing is the nazis liked to rest on their laurels
[21:30:00] <Loetmichel> (not that that is a good thin, I would not want to live in a nazi country)
[21:30:11] <pfred1> they were a bunch of lazy sots at heart
[21:30:19] <cpresser> the one thing germans really lacked was a organization like bletchley park
[21:30:35] <pfred1> one thing the germans had was parallel efforts
[21:30:41] <pfred1> there was too much competition
[21:31:08] <pfred1> too many factions inside battling each other
[21:31:16] <Loetmichel> maybe, but when was it that competition switched from being a good thing to being a drawback?
[21:31:26] <pfred1> when you're fighting a war
[21:31:27] <andypugh> I don't think that the Nazi high command had any respect for intellectuals, so they would never have set up anything like Bletchley.
[21:31:34] <pjm__> i bought a book at BP yesterday called 'nazi codebreakers' about the german efforts against allied crypto systems, looks like an excellent read!
[21:31:47] <pfred1> yeah running off the jews wasn't the smartest thing they did
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[21:32:06] <pfred1> the US atomic program was mostly german jews
[21:32:34] <Loetmichel> the jews were a "sacificial cow"
[21:32:45] <Jymmm> kosher?
[21:32:51] <Loetmichel> to put the blame on someone for the bad economics and so on
[21:33:13] <pfred1> pjm__ wen you get done with that read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptonomicon
[21:33:26] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutte
[21:33:31] <Loetmichel> i think it could have been any other ethnic if the leaders were biased another way
[21:33:33] <pfred1> Loetmichel I'm not entirely sure if it was completely misplaced
[21:34:00] <pfred1> but it still hurt them in the short term
[21:34:28] <Jymmm> pjm__: fiction?
[21:34:31] <pfred1> the nazis hardly invented anti-semitism
[21:34:34] <andypugh> Bill Tutte managed to figure out the structure of the Lorenz machine from looking at the cyphertext and plaintext. That's actually almost incredible.
[21:35:04] <pjm__> Jymmm no its non-fiction, based on allied investigations after germany was taken by allies
[21:35:10] <pjm__> and also POW 'interviews'
[21:35:28] <skunkworks__> pjm: ! how is your machine working?
[21:35:38] <pfred1> pjm__ the Cryptonomicon is fiction but some of the events that happen within the story actually occurred
[21:35:38] <Jymmm> pjm__: Cool, I might actually read a non-technical book this decade then =)
[21:36:00] <Loetmichel> harhar
[21:36:11] <Jymmm> hell, it'll take me that long to read it anyway
[21:36:19] <pjm__> sorry i got the title wrong its Hitler's Codebreakers: German Signals Intelligence in World War 2 [
[21:36:20] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I dont read
[21:36:35] <Loetmichel> i just happen to have the 4 "chtorran" books (sci-fi) on my cellphone
[21:36:42] <Loetmichel> in english
[21:36:58] <pjm__> skunkworks__ yo! it is working nicely thanks, i still have a few little bits to do to tidy it up, but so far its been perfect! and i've made tonnes of things with it
[21:36:59] <pfred1> the only code that wasn't broken in WW2 was the US code based on the navajo Indian language
[21:37:02] <Loetmichel> to read in the car and everywhere/when i have time
[21:37:15] <pfred1> we had a corner on the Indian market :)
[21:37:39] <pjm__> skunkworks__ last project http://pjm.dyndns.org/twtr/nixie4.jpg case for my clock
[21:37:52] <Loetmichel> because my pile of "to read" novels is getting higher and higher
[21:38:20] <skunkworks__> Neat!
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[21:38:31] <pjm__> also re BP i would recommend "Colossus: The secrets of Bletchley Park's code-breaking computers"
[21:38:33] <Loetmichel> pjm__: nice. but a nixie clock HAS to be in a wooden case. IMO
[21:38:55] <pfred1> pjm__ you could polish the edges more
[21:38:56] <pjm__> LOL well i wanted to see the electroncs
[21:39:19] <Loetmichel> ... and it has to be free to air wiring
[21:39:22] <pfred1> pjm__ wet sand it with 600 grit then use polishing compound
[21:39:25] <Loetmichel> not PCB
[21:39:25] <pjm__> yeah i looked at how u get the edges of polycarbonate smoothed, not too sure how
[21:39:26] <Jymmm> pfred1: Someone analyzed encrypted SSL traffic recently and was able to determine from the patterns what content they were looking at.
[21:39:34] <Loetmichel> ... also in my opinion
[21:39:53] <pjm__> could u have a nixie clock in wood case with GPS timing?
[21:39:58] <pjm__> or does that not mix properly
[21:40:02] <pfred1> pjm__ I put the polishing compound on a piece of paper then use it like sandpaper
[21:40:05] <Loetmichel> [23:39] <pfred1> pjm__ wet sand it with 600 grit then use polishing compound <- or use a bunsen burner and some experience
[21:40:19] <Jymmm> pjm__: gps or wwv ?
[21:40:21] <pfred1> Loetmichel nah it comes out better polished
[21:40:28] <pjm__> wwv isnt accurate enuf ;-)
[21:40:34] <Loetmichel> pfred1: depends ;-)
[21:40:38] <pjm__> due to ionospheric disturbance
[21:40:40] <pfred1> torching it it is always wavy
[21:40:41] <Jymmm> pjm__: What do you think FEEDS gps?
[21:40:49] <pjm__> Rb's !
[21:40:53] <Loetmichel> whats wwv?
[21:40:54] <pfred1> Loetmichel no it doesn't polishing always yields a superior finish
[21:40:59] <Loetmichel> something like DCF77?
[21:41:02] <pjm__> yeah
[21:41:03] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: atomic clock in colorado
[21:41:18] <pfred1> and you can't torch all clear plastics either
[21:41:28] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: transmit time on 5,10,15,and 20MHz
[21:41:32] <Loetmichel> pfred1: right, workls best with PMMA
[21:41:45] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i see, like DCF77
[21:41:51] <Jymmm> yeah
[21:41:55] <andypugh> i like "Cryptonimicon" but I think that the"Quicksilver" series is better. It's science fiction, except the scientists are Newton, Hooke, Liebnitz...
[21:41:59] <Loetmichel> only that DCF77 is on 77.5khz
[21:42:04] <pfred1> I have a piece here that is torched one side and polished the other and i can see the torch waves in the polished side
[21:42:11] <Loetmichel> ... and about 10km from here
[21:42:22] <Loetmichel> with its main transmitter
[21:42:26] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWV_%28radio_station%29
[21:42:37] <pfred1> andypugh ever read Snow Crash?
[21:42:56] <Loetmichel> pfred1: so its not good torched?
[21:42:57] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[21:43:12] <pfred1> Loetmichel its OK but I prefer polished
[21:43:15] <Loetmichel> i never had problems with waves
[21:43:23] <andypugh> Yes. Several times. In fact I have read everything he has written, including the Stephen Bury stuff, and Zodiac.
[21:43:28] <Loetmichel> only wiht blisters if i got to long on one3 place
[21:43:29] <pfred1> polish one side then look through it
[21:43:34] <pfred1> then you'll see them
[21:44:07] <pfred1> andypugh I haven't read everything he's written but a few things
[21:44:26] <pfred1> gibson is a read everything well up until a point
[21:45:02] <andypugh> I Reamde is pretty good.
[21:45:10] <pjm__> Cryptonomicon gets excellent reviews, so probably one to add to my list
[21:45:12] <andypugh> And I really liked Anathem
[21:45:28] <pfred1> pjm__ I thought it was entertaining fast paced too
[21:45:35] <pjm__> great!
[21:45:46] <pfred1> it'd better be for the size it is
[21:46:00] <andypugh> I read anything written by Gibson, Sterling, Cherryh, Stevenson and Weber pretty much as soon as they are ublished.
[21:46:23] <andypugh> Ah, and Ian M Banks too
[21:46:24] <pfred1> a regular cyberpunker are you?
[21:46:32] <r00t4rd3d> pffft
[21:46:43] <Loetmichel> hmmm, who is weber?
[21:46:56] <andypugh> Quicksilver is Stempunk :-)
[21:46:58] <Loetmichel> the rest sits here in the shelf, more or less complete ;-)
[21:47:01] <andypugh> (steampunk)
[21:47:10] <pfred1> andypugh you might like some early greg bear
[21:47:56] <andypugh> David Weber answers your question about armour piercing handguns in "Out of the Dark" which is a really promising Alien Invasion story badly ruined by vampires.
[21:48:07] <andypugh> I have read most stuff by Greag Bear too.
[21:48:10] <pfred1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_(Greg_Bear)
[21:48:30] <pfred1> OK
[21:48:34] <andypugh> And George RR Martin
[21:48:40] <pfred1> his later stuff is a bit too commercial for me
[21:48:56] <andypugh> I really like China Mieville.
[21:50:02] <pfred1> andypugh you like Larry Niven?
[21:50:24] <andypugh> Not especially, he is rubbish with characterisation
[21:50:34] <pfred1> hmm i liked the motie series
[21:50:36] <andypugh> I have read a lot of his stuff.
[21:51:14] <andypugh> Have you read anything by Vernor Vinge? He does better aliens than Niven
[21:51:31] <pfred1> I've read another Vinge not that one
[21:51:46] <pfred1> at least i think i have
[21:51:58] <andypugh> And I _think_ that Cherryh is the only author I know who has written books with no human characters at all.
[21:52:16] <Tom_itx> who reads them?
[21:52:22] <pfred1> Jack Vance?
[21:52:55] <andypugh> Yeah, I like Jack Vance, he has such a laid-back style where he quietly does dreadful things to characters with no fanfare.
[21:53:01] <pfred1> heh
[21:53:21] <pfred1> stanislaw lem?
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[21:53:41] <pfred1> he wrote solaris
[21:53:45] <andypugh> Ah! At last, I haven't read anything by him.
[21:53:54] <pfred1> oh read everything by him!
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[21:54:04] <pfred1> solaris is probably the worst hting he's ever written
[21:54:14] <Jymmm> lol
[21:54:23] <Jymmm> pfred1: it's not THAT bad
[21:54:31] <pfred1> compared to his other works it is
[21:54:43] <alex4nder> hah
[21:54:46] <alex4nder> I thought you were talking about the OS
[21:54:51] <alex4nder> and I was like "fuck yah man, Solaris sucks"
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[21:55:03] <pfred1> but no it is a pretty wild story
[21:55:31] <andypugh> I tried to read Dhalgren once. I think that is not unusual.
[21:55:42] <pfred1> heh delany
[21:56:15] <pfred1> as many times as I've read Dhalgren I can't say as I understand it
[21:56:27] <pfred1> I always do enjoy it though
[21:56:38] <pfred1> try stars in my pocket like grains of sand
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[21:58:12] <pfred1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cyberiad
[21:59:10] <Loetmichel> [23:54] <pfred1> solaris is probably the worst hting he's ever written <- the film is BAD
[21:59:11] <pfred1> andypugh you'll like Lem
[21:59:17] <Loetmichel> the book is quite readable
[21:59:18] <pfred1> Loetmichel which there are two
[21:59:26] <Loetmichel> the new one
[21:59:34] <pfred1> well they're both pretty bad
[21:59:44] <pfred1> but I think the second one is a bit better than the first
[22:00:04] <pfred1> seeing either then reading the book will ruin it for anyone
[22:00:25] <andypugh> If I was going to recommend one book to read in the SF genre I think it would be Cherryh's "The Pride of Chanur". She has written "better" books, but that has a set of really likeable aliens in it.
[22:01:14] <Loetmichel> andypugh: chanur universe is GREAT
[22:01:24] <pfred1> this book when I read it I didn't know if it was true or not I'm pretty sure it isn't but it is so compelling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Master's_Voice_(novel)
[22:01:40] <pfred1> it is the most bizarre sci-fi book I've ever read though
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[22:01:55] <pfred1> and I've read a lot of sci-fi books
[22:02:17] <pfred1> every 20 pages I was going is this real?
[22:02:29] <andypugh> Sounds good, actually.
[22:02:29] <Loetmichel> andypugh: and the most alien is the human ;-)
[22:02:37] <pfred1> it kicks ass
[22:03:35] <andypugh> One thing I liked about Stevenson's "Quicksilver" was how often it sent me to Wikipedia to check if events really happened. (it starts in 1666)
[22:03:45] <pfred1> heh
[22:04:09] <Tom_itx> someone have the link to the page to calc your stepper voltage?
[22:04:25] <pfred1> Tom_itx what does that mean?
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[22:05:12] <pfred1> I thought as long as you didn't exceed your insulation break down voltage you were good
[22:05:28] <pfred1> and your current too of course
[22:06:38] <andypugh> Loetmichel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nUi3DaWzGI
[22:08:59] <Loetmichel> andypugh: nice!
[22:09:24] <andypugh> I guess we are not the only fans
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[22:09:32] <Loetmichel> not really the voice i have imagined for her but fitting
[22:09:51] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ping
[22:10:34] <pfred1> OK that's enough of that
[22:10:55] <Loetmichel> andypugh: i admit the first time i read the books i COULD have imagined to be with a dozen or more female man-sized felines on a spaceship ;-)
[22:11:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ardunio composite video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBXiZpuncg&feature=related
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[22:11:45] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Aye, it does sound more than bearable.
[22:11:50] <pfred1> if you're into space porn this comes to mind http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_on_the_Half-Shell
[22:12:07] <Loetmichel> pfred1: no, entirely not
[22:12:17] <pfred1> it is an excellent book
[22:12:42] <Loetmichel> but the thought to be the lap pet of a buch of felines: may be interesting this way around ;-)
[22:13:01] <andypugh> Actually, no, I am not into space porn! In fact I get annoyed with books where the sex interferes with the plot. (Jean M Auel, I am pointing at you)
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[22:13:16] <pfred1> read it and you may see where hitchhiker's guide the the galaxy came from
[22:13:20] <Jymmm> Cool, but pricy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gy7w6R091M&feature=related
[22:13:35] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[22:13:53] <pfred1> andypugh well in venus sex is a large part of the plot
[22:14:02] <Loetmichel> lets look at amazon... i would like to have the chanur books on the Smartphone ;-)
[22:14:28] <Loetmichel> ... i have 2 16gb cards in it. so space shouldnt be a problem ;-)
[22:15:45] <andypugh> Jymmm: Looks like a nice basis for a pandant
[22:15:50] <andypugh> A pendant, even
[22:16:10] <Jymmm> andypugh: a lil small though I'd think
[22:16:22] <Jymmm> to utilize the touch part
[22:16:51] <andypugh> Joke from last night: "Have you heard of Which Tyler? He led the Pedants Revolt"
[22:25:28] <andypugh> Loetmichel: No sign of Chanur on Kindle
[22:25:51] <Loetmichel> no
[22:25:56] <Loetmichel> apparently not
[22:26:08] <andypugh> Ah, well, not in the UK or DE anyway. I seems that it exists in the US>
[22:26:15] <andypugh> http://www.amazon.com/Chanurs-Venture-ebook/dp/B000FCK7TC
[22:26:36] <andypugh> That's simply unfair
[22:26:42] <Loetmichel> it is
[22:26:45] <pfred1> how can an ebook exist in only one place?
[22:27:29] <andypugh> Well, i am doing a brute-force search of regions....
[22:27:31] <Loetmichel> pfred1: how can germans not see half of the youtube videos?
[22:27:33] <Loetmichel> (gema)
[22:27:38] <jdhnc> 09/18/2010 04:33 AM 236,669 Chanur's venture - C. J. Cherryh.epub
[22:27:52] <pfred1> Loetmichel that's easy hostmasking
[22:28:54] <andypugh> I am quite often denied Youtube videos when I look from the PCs at work because they are orroneously identified as being in germany.
[22:29:33] <pfred1> andypugh can't be too careful with those Germans ....
[22:29:46] <jdhnc> I proxy through canada from some places and get odd results from some sites.
[22:30:00] <pfred1> we all know what a little beer and martial music does to them
[22:32:23] <andypugh> Right, time to sleep (well, I will probably read a bit more of "The Hunger Games" first. Which is OK but not great.
[22:32:55] <Tom_itx> pfred1 this was what i was after: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Formulas
[22:33:00] <pfred1> nite
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[22:33:32] <pfred1> Tom_itx how does higher voltage make you miss steps?
[22:34:24] <Tom_itx> i don't recall saying it did
[22:34:48] <pfred1> the reason manufacturers don't give you the voltage is they know you're going to PWM the motor
[22:35:17] <pfred1> Tom_itx you didn't but thos page does
[22:35:42] <pfred1> "Run that axis and increase the speed until you find the fastest speed that it will run without missing steps with the test voltage."
[22:36:45] <Loetmichel> <- bedtime
[22:37:10] <pfred1> Tom_itx now i never knew inductance limited your maximum voltage
[22:38:30] <pfred1> although it does seem that at equal voltage a lower inductance motor will run faster than a higher inductance one can
[22:38:50] <pfred1> so it is a good thing you can run higher inductance motors higher voltages
[22:39:53] <pfred1> oh this is all for resistor current limiting drives
[22:40:26] <pfred1> I'm not sure if any of this applies to a PWM drive
[22:41:30] <pfred1> I built a resistor limited drive once the resistor you need is crazy
[22:41:56] <pfred1> I had a 36 Watt resistor and it still wasn't enough the thing got so hot you could fry an egg on it
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[22:44:31] <pfred1> Tom_itx what kind of motor driver are you running?
[22:45:38] * robin_sz gulps
[22:45:40] <Tom_itx> probably the 203v
[22:45:51] <robin_sz> blinkin flip ....
[22:45:53] <robin_sz> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hardinge-HLVH-Super-precision-toolroom-lathe-19976-/190571407299?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item2c5ef0e7c3
[22:45:55] <pfred1> Tom_itx then I do not think any of this applies to you
[22:45:56] <robin_sz> 14K?
[22:46:05] <Tom_itx> well sure it does
[22:46:13] <Tom_itx> there's still a max voltage
[22:46:15] <pfred1> Tom_itx how so?
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[22:46:46] <pfred1> ah you'd better ask mariss but I think he is going to tell yo uyour only limit is the drive input voltage
[22:46:49] <Tom_itx> i'm well within the limits though
[22:47:20] <pfred1> that whole page is for a dropping resistor stepper motor driver and that ain't what geckos are
[22:47:51] <pfred1> the resistor they use is a current sensing resistor
[22:48:08] <robin_sz> surely, people stopped using dropper type drives roughly the same year they stopped using overhead pulleys and belts to move power around the shop?
[22:48:16] <pfred1> totally different
[22:48:20] * robin_sz nods
[22:48:34] <Tom_itx> well if it doesn't apply then the docs should say so
[22:48:36] <pfred1> robin_sz I built one to check it out
[22:48:44] <pfred1> it does at the bottom of the page
[22:48:50] <robin_sz> pfred1, very inefficient and crap at high speeds
[22:49:21] <pfred1> Tom_itx I didn't know what they were talking about myself until I'd read it to the end
[22:49:58] <pfred1> "Your resistor must drop the difference in voltage between the voltage at which your stepper is rated and your supply voltage: "
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[22:50:10] <pfred1> that whole page is about a dropping resistor driver
[22:50:30] <pfred1> they went out with big hair in the 80s
[22:52:05] <Tom_itx> it would be better to run the stepper in parallel configuration over series wouldn't it?
[22:52:12] <pfred1> yes
[22:52:35] <pfred1> even if it means amp starving the motor
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[22:53:12] <Tom_itx> i still believe there is a voltage limit on the motor itself
[22:53:23] <pfred1> yeah the breakdown voltage of the insulation
[22:53:44] <pfred1> somewhere around 300 volts I guess
[22:54:12] <pfred1> as long as you don't put more current into it than it can handle it can handle all the volts you throw at it
[22:54:56] <pfred1> this is the beauty of PWM drives
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[22:56:09] <pfred1> although the resistor they're talking about on the bottom of that page I bet costs a pretty penny to buy
[22:56:23] <pfred1> for laughs I'm going ot look on up
[22:56:37] <robin_sz> PWM drives are without doubt the way to go, I can;t imagine anyone using resistor limited drives now they are available
[22:56:39] <robin_sz> but ..
[22:56:57] <robin_sz> I do rmeember someone selling them in the last few years on eBay .. what a joke
[22:57:08] <pfred1> what is the next round up after 100 Watt resistors?
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[22:57:20] <Tom_itx> they should make mention of that on that page if it doesn't apply to newer drivers
[22:57:35] <pfred1> Tom_itx they do if you know what you'r reading about
[22:57:37] <robin_sz> you also have to consdier the PSU
[22:57:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: did you see it? if not scrollup
[22:58:11] <robin_sz> a PWN drive will use about 1/3rd or less of the current a resistor limite ddruive will
[22:58:28] <Tom_itx> pfred1 i thought i'd use this for a current limit resistor: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/resistor2.jpg
[22:58:31] <robin_sz> much less usually
[22:58:33] <pfred1> well I'm going to cheat and only look up a 100 watt resistor because i really don't know the next standard step up from it
[22:58:56] <Thetawaves> robin_sz, it depends on your switching speed
[22:59:00] <pfred1> Tom_itx too small
[22:59:04] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/resistor1.jpg
[22:59:14] <robin_sz> Thetawaves, no it doesnt
[22:59:18] <Thetawaves> robin_sz, eventually you'll eat up all the power switching your transistors if your pwm speed is too high
[22:59:23] <Tom_itx> 175w @ 500 ohm
[22:59:26] <Thetawaves> yes it absolutely does.
[22:59:31] <robin_sz> Thetawaves, unlikely
[22:59:35] <Thetawaves> LOL
[22:59:47] <pfred1> Tom_itx yeah but how many Watts is it at 5 Ohms?
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[22:59:54] <Tom_itx> not as many
[23:00:00] <robin_sz> most modern fets and igbt are fine at 100khz
[23:00:01] <pfred1> not nearly no
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[23:00:30] <Thetawaves> NO igbts are fine at 100khz
[23:00:34] <pfred1> Tom_itx I'm going ot look up what resistor the drive they describe on that page needs
[23:00:41] <robin_sz> Thetawaves, really?
[23:00:55] <Thetawaves> ultra fast igbts are 5khz in hard switch mode
[23:00:58] <Thetawaves> 20khz in resonate mode
[23:01:25] <robin_sz> Thetawaves, thank fuck you told me that, I shall recall all our last 4 years of production immediately
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[23:01:44] <Thetawaves> show me a 100khz igbt
[23:01:47] <Thetawaves> i would LOVE to see it
[23:02:18] <robin_sz> the psu in our SMPS runs at 100khz
[23:02:28] <Thetawaves> with a mosfet
[23:02:31] <robin_sz> or 12okhz depending on model
[23:02:36] <robin_sz> IGBT
[23:02:40] <Thetawaves> give me a part number man
[23:02:55] <robin_sz> varies
[23:03:02] <pfred1> Tom_itx one 5 OHM, 120W resistor http://www.newark.com/ohmite/tghhv5r00je/resistor-thick-film-5ohm-120w-5/dp/83K9848
[23:03:10] <robin_sz> we build from small to medium size smps
[23:03:16] <robin_sz> 1kw to 8kw
[23:03:21] <Tom_itx> pfred1, is there a pointA?
[23:03:32] <Tom_itx> -A
[23:03:33] <pfred1> Tom_itx that is the resistor they mention on that page
[23:04:06] <Tom_itx> so i could put a diode pack on my mains and stuff it into the driver?
[23:04:14] <pfred1> the point is resistor dropper drives are ludicrious
[23:04:16] <Thetawaves> i found one
[23:04:18] <Tom_itx> provided the driver would take it
[23:04:30] <Thetawaves> so called 'warp' speed igbt good up to 100khz
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[23:05:40] <Thetawaves> IRG4PF50W
[23:05:57] -!- cmorley has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[23:06:13] <alex_joni> we use the PF50W, but it's a slow one
[23:06:44] <Thetawaves> http://www.irf.com/product-info/igbt/
[23:06:55] <Thetawaves> htf did i miss the warp speed igbts
[23:07:15] <robin_sz> they have been around a while
[23:07:24] <pfred1> a canna hold her together for very much longer cap'tan
[23:07:39] <robin_sz> although ours are not IRF devices
[23:07:56] <pfred1> robin_sz you use dilithium crystals from Rigel 7
[23:08:15] <robin_sz> somedays when the supply drys up, I believe so
[23:08:20] <Thetawaves> that is actually the only warp speed igbt IR makes... wtf?
[23:08:32] <robin_sz> we dont use IR
[23:09:04] <robin_sz> although, istr that part is listed as a replacemetn for one of the msaller units, if our regualr supplier is out of stock
[23:09:51] <Thetawaves> what do you use?
[23:09:56] <pfred1> I've had a hankering lately to try my hand at making a SMPS
[23:10:32] <Tom_itx> someone recently did one using an avr and found it was only about 30% efficient
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[23:10:38] <Thetawaves> IXGH72N60C3 or similar probably
[23:10:52] <Thetawaves> i am building one right now.
[23:11:05] <Thetawaves> i chose mosfets
[23:11:45] <Thetawaves> Tom_itx, how can that possibly be true?
[23:12:02] <pfred1> bad programming?
[23:12:15] <Tom_itx> couldn't tell you
[23:12:24] <Tom_itx> it was someone in #avr
[23:12:30] <Tom_itx> here within a couple weeks
[23:12:35] <pfred1> I couldn't tell you why someone would use an AVR in an SMPS
[23:12:35] <Thetawaves> in the buck converter at least.. the flyback diode used has to be very fast to get good efficiency.
[23:12:53] <Tom_itx> pfred1 he wanted to try it
[23:13:02] <pfred1> that would be a reason
[23:13:09] <Thetawaves> why does it matter which controller he used?
[23:14:09] <pfred1> you don't need to use a controller at all
[23:14:29] <Thetawaves> you need some measurement and pwm device
[23:14:39] <pfred1> sure you use a comparator
[23:14:46] <robin_sz> Thetawaves, we make stuff like this: http://matrixamplification.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=41&Itemid=124
[23:14:50] <Thetawaves> and a 555 timer?
[23:14:52] <Thetawaves> lol
[23:15:33] <pfred1> robin_sz slip that right under the back seat of the ghetto blaster
[23:15:37] <robin_sz> Thetawaves, we buy "a few" mosfets and IGBTs ;)
[23:15:44] <Thetawaves> robin_sz, the specific switch you use is a trade secret?
[23:16:15] <robin_sz> not really, im not the deigner, and I dont carry the numbers in my head ...
[23:16:42] <robin_sz> we do use IXYS parts in some though
[23:17:24] <pfred1> robin_sz what is a, "unique turbulated heatsink design"?
[23:17:37] <robin_sz> I know I bolted 4 of them into a servo drive the other day, thats kicking around somewhere
[23:18:01] <robin_sz> pfred1, its just a U shaped channel of ally, with slots cut through it
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[23:18:13] <robin_sz> let me find an internals pic for you
[23:18:18] <pfred1> robin_sz totally tubular!
[23:18:24] <robin_sz> no
[23:18:27] <robin_sz> U shape
[23:18:44] <robin_sz> we punch it out of 4mm sheet, then bend it up into a U
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[23:19:24] <pfred1> I think i like extrusions the best
[23:19:41] <robin_sz> we did that too
[23:19:50] <robin_sz> but not as efficient at getting heat out
[23:20:24] <robin_sz> we had them made in China, very cheap, cheaper than bending flat ally anyway
[23:20:31] <pfred1> I thought finned extrusions were the way to go
[23:20:44] <robin_sz> they are cheap and universal
[23:21:13] <robin_sz> sssh now, let me find you a pic ;)
[23:21:18] <pfred1> k
[23:21:49] * pfred1 lubz e-pr0n ...
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[23:22:39] <Tom_itx> robin_sz, similar to the one laying on the desk? : http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/triac1_rev2.jpg
[23:23:11] <pfred1> Tom_itx the ones on your boards are extrusions
[23:23:13] <Tom_itx> only larger
[23:23:20] <Tom_itx> i know
[23:23:25] <Tom_itx> the other one isn't
[23:23:42] <pfred1> yeah I always thought the plates were chizy
[23:23:58] <pfred1> I mean they can get the job done but ...
[23:25:07] <pfred1> I gut old TVs for heatsinks
[23:25:34] <pfred1> who said TV was worthless?
[23:25:50] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, similar
[23:26:32] <robin_sz> pms sent
[23:40:16] <ThadiusB> question, if i recieve this RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on task, technically it could be happening more than once even though it only displays once?
[23:40:22] <ThadiusB> need to check jitter?
[23:41:31] <pfred1> ThadiusB it means you have to back off some on your latency
[23:42:04] <ThadiusB> so i should run my stepconfig wiz again and do a longer jitter test for better average, then back off some?
[23:42:20] <pfred1> why test it you alreayd know you need to back off
[23:42:24] <robin_sz> strangely enough, I had just tonight pulled a EMC box out of hiding and started dragging slides and ballscrews towards the workbench
[23:42:29] <pfred1> just back it off some see if it helps
[23:43:13] <pfred1> I had to give up on axis GL was messing with my system
[23:43:18] <ThadiusB> ok, some i'm at 15k, any idea what increments i should start scaling it back in?
[23:43:35] <ReadError> ThadiusB: got it up and cutting?
[23:43:39] <pfred1> try 16K
[23:43:59] <ThadiusB> cutting air Read, actually did a few parts, but still having issues
[23:44:12] <ReadError> any pics or vids yet?
[23:44:42] <pfred1> ReadError really you could figure out what the max step rate you want it then set there
[23:44:52] <pfred1> want is even
[23:45:03] <pfred1> oh ThadiusB
[23:45:07] <ThadiusB> lol
[23:45:25] <pfred1> I mean why run faster than you need to?
[23:45:51] <ThadiusB> i'm just a small fish in a huge pond pfred
[23:45:53] <pfred1> do you have headroom over your max speed?
[23:45:54] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, got the link OK?
[23:46:26] <pfred1> I only ran into trouble when I went for high microstep modes
[23:46:42] <Tom_itx> yup
[23:46:48] <pfred1> evne in 8th step 18500ns is OK for me though
[23:47:04] <robin_sz> good good
[23:47:13] <Tom_itx> i should go to the local scrap and see if they have something similar
[23:47:22] <Tom_itx> they get some odd extrusions sometimes
[23:47:32] <pfred1> for heatsinks?
[23:47:43] <Tom_itx> that would be my purpose yes
[23:47:53] <pfred1> try aluminum window frames
[23:47:58] <pfred1> they're extrusions
[23:48:21] <robin_sz> if its just for a one off project, finned extrusion may be best
[23:48:34] <robin_sz> we do this because we make several hundred a month
[23:48:49] <Tom_itx> those are extrusions aren't they?
[23:48:53] <Tom_itx> they look like it
[23:48:53] <robin_sz> it slightly better than extrusion, but not a lot
[23:48:55] <robin_sz> no
[23:48:59] <robin_sz> 4mm flat sheet
[23:49:01] <Tom_itx> hmm
[23:49:04] <robin_sz> cut out on a punch
[23:49:10] <robin_sz> bent on a press
[23:49:25] <robin_sz> with a "swan neck" tool
[23:49:40] <pfred1> cold rolled sheet?
[23:50:07] <robin_sz> 4mm ally sheet ...
[23:50:14] <Tom_itx> must be pretty soft to start with
[23:50:14] <robin_sz> no clue if its cold rolled or not
[23:50:22] <robin_sz> its 1003 i think
[23:50:24] <robin_sz> http://www.vandf.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/edwards-tool11.jpg
[23:50:28] <robin_sz> comme ca
[23:51:07] <robin_sz> actually, we just bought a new punch this week,
[23:51:17] <robin_sz> Amada 422? 322? hmm
[23:51:18] <pfred1> I have a whole box of heatsinks I've scavanged
[23:51:26] <pfred1> they're my horde
[23:51:40] <ReadError> pfred1: you a horder? ;p
[23:51:47] <ReadError> hoarder
[23:51:49] <pfred1> ReadError I'm getting there
[23:52:01] <ReadError> lol it sounds like it ;)
[23:52:06] <Tom_itx> robin_sz one of those would be handy to have :)
[23:52:19] <pfred1> ReadError I just bought this over the weekend http://i.imgur.com/WCRO5.jpg
[23:52:28] <pfred1> ReadError and that isn't evne all of it!
[23:52:34] <ReadError> lol
[23:52:40] <pfred1> that bin was full
[23:52:42] <ReadError> why did you buy a box of used pens and markers?
[23:52:46] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, yep, it finishes off the machining department nicely
[23:52:50] <pfred1> it was $3
[23:53:06] <ReadError> did the glitter glue come with it?
[23:53:11] <pfred1> yup
[23:53:16] <ReadError> well thats a good deal then
[23:53:20] <Tom_itx> that's why he bought it!
[23:53:20] <pfred1> those CD-Rs too
[23:53:27] <Jymmm> so was the gameboy!
[23:53:30] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, we have a 8x4 cnc router, 2 small lasers (cardboard and plastic), a Haas VF2 with 4th axis and now an Amada punch
[23:53:35] <pfred1> yeah there was even a gameboy in there
[23:53:43] <alex4nder> ReadError: how's the mill?
[23:53:54] <ReadError> alex4nder: got everything mounted
[23:53:58] <alex4nder> nice
[23:54:00] <ReadError> gotta bring the box and monitor down still
[23:54:00] <Tom_itx> robin_sz our neighbor had newer haas but i've never run one
[23:54:03] <pfred1> I'd say 80% of the pens are good
[23:54:11] <ReadError> plus, i got an enclosure i want to put my stuff into
[23:54:13] <pfred1> by good i mean like new
[23:54:17] <ReadError> like a junction box
[23:54:18] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, we only got ours going really this week
[23:54:37] <ReadError> i was messing with pycam today at work
[23:54:43] <ReadError> it does not work as intended ;(
[23:54:44] <Tom_itx> i've seen a row of em at Tony's shop though
[23:54:45] <pfred1> Jymmm I feel I missed out on a golden opportunity though
[23:54:47] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, just sent first programmes down from VisualMill on Saturday
[23:54:53] <ReadError> importing a svg doesnt work at all
[23:54:54] <Jymmm> pfred1: how so?
[23:55:10] <Tom_itx> i think i got pics of em somewhere
[23:55:14] <robin_sz> look, its Jymmm
[23:55:24] <pfred1> Jymmm the woman I bought it off of is a nurse and a lot of the pens are chewed on so it is likely she has an oral fixation ...
[23:55:38] <Jymmm> pfred1: LOL
[23:55:40] <ReadError> pfred1: you in the USA?
[23:55:46] <pfred1> ReadError yes
[23:55:52] <ReadError> where about?
[23:55:58] <pfred1> ReadError Delaware
[23:56:02] <robin_sz> Jymmm, have you built that CNC parrot yet?
[23:56:12] <Jymmm> pfred1: If she's a nurse, she could be infected, so yes maybe you DID miss a golden opportunity of an STD
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[23:56:38] <pfred1> Jymmm yeah she might have been a real slob I've been looking at these pens and they tell a story
[23:56:55] <robin_sz> nurses, .. nasty dirty things .. best avoided
[23:56:59] <Jymmm> pfred1: haha
[23:57:00] <pfred1> she was obviously a mad pen kleptomaniac
[23:57:07] * robin_sz checks his wife is not listening
[23:57:10] <ReadError> i only like a certain type of pen
[23:57:17] <robin_sz> sharpie?
[23:57:23] <pfred1> ReadError me too, one that writes
[23:57:29] <ReadError> precise v5
[23:57:32] <ReadError> or g2's
[23:57:39] <pfred1> yeah they'rei n there
[23:57:40] <Jymmm> pfred1: and would have access to date rape drugs too I bet... aka Fatal attraction
[23:57:53] <ReadError> http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/jFuArAQ_59mRfG588MTf-CeBa8M0brHAKc4SzXZ8CUj8Ev2My-V6r7mQJOgv0FbZXwoq4XM-hvzkirQ-1aVYh8FADaGaT917h90x1cx63r2QSI3bsN5QBkgjerMmP924s9wi188uKb9azMHTnjZx8qWh5fo0QsPETkFvuZV9OxPJpLA_
[23:57:54] <ReadError> those
[23:58:06] <pfred1> ReadError there are some really nice pens in this mess
[23:58:25] <ThadiusB> ok, another question, does linuxcnc have try and compensate for backlash, and if so, should i change my accel?
[23:59:00] <ThadiusB> if i have anti-backlash installed?
[23:59:20] <pfred1> backlash is one thing luckily I haven't had to fool with
[23:59:27] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: Yes, it does have compensation, but you should always use mechanical whenever you can
[23:59:37] <Tom_L> robin_sz, these are the ones at tony's shop: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/stewart/DSC_0007.JPG
[23:59:39] <pfred1> my HDPE nuts seem elastic enough they don't have any
[23:59:39] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/stewart/DSC_0008.JPG