#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-18

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[00:10:37] <skunkworks__> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=53295&page=5
[00:11:01] <skunkworks__> assume it is the same guy]
[00:11:38] <skunkworks__> (post 45)
[00:15:02] <ReadError> hello hello :)
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[00:20:48] <jthornton> see you guys next week
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[00:39:56] <skunkworks__> almost positive... ;) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/134585
[00:40:35] <alex4nder> hey
[00:44:30] * djdelorie was complaining about no jog-during-toolchange just last week...
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[00:49:22] <skunkworks__> never knew I was missing that feature..
[00:50:09] <djdelorie> do you have to do manual tool changes, re-touching-off Z each time?
[00:50:22] <djdelorie> i.e. pretty much every hobby cnc mill? ;-)
[00:53:57] <skunkworks__> when I was doing circuit boards - I used a microswitch to set tool length when manually changing the bits
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[01:21:58] <skunkworks__> but I am sure you don't want to hear that... ;_
[01:22:04] <skunkworks__> ;)
[01:22:35] * pfred1 hears nothing!
[01:22:53] <djdelorie> two solutions allow for flexibility
[01:23:15] <pfred1> at some point flexibility turns into dislocation
[01:23:52] <djdelorie> sure, but given that we all have different cnc machines, a certain minimum amount of flexibility is good
[01:24:43] <djdelorie> pfred1: we're talking about manually touching off Z after a manual tool change again
[01:26:10] <pfred1> I must have missed the first time it was a topic
[01:26:32] <pfred1> I hear how Linuxcnc does it is different
[01:27:10] <djdelorie> the limiting feature is that linuxcnc won't let you jog or touch off during a tool change or g-code pause
[01:27:25] <djdelorie> you can automatically re-zero a tool using a switch, but not via jogging
[01:28:15] <pfred1> so LCNC won't go into a tool change position then go back to work?
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[01:29:19] <pfred1> I could swear people auto tool change with lcnc so manual would just be that but paused
[01:29:57] <djdelorie> it goes to the position, but after you're done with the wrenches, you can't re-touch-off Z to compensate for where you put the new tool in (how far)
[01:30:18] <pfred1> you can set the tool height
[01:30:30] <djdelorie> you can't reliably insert the router bit that accurately
[01:30:36] <pfred1> I think you have to set it in fact
[01:30:53] <pfred1> yes you can with collars on them
[01:31:02] <djdelorie> my bits don't have collars
[01:31:08] <pfred1> well then get some
[01:31:23] <djdelorie> my point is, some folks just want to change bits, touch off Z, and continue
[01:31:30] <pfred1> well then
[01:31:41] <pfred1> they need to run something else i guess ;)
[01:31:52] <djdelorie> that's what they're doing
[01:31:55] <pfred1> LinuxCNC don't play dat way!
[01:32:14] <skunkworks__> *they come back.. they always come back...
[01:32:17] <djdelorie> only because nobody's changed the code to play dat way yet ;-)
[01:32:33] <skunkworks__> djdelorie: smop...
[01:32:36] <pfred1> LinuxCNC if anything is pedantic
[01:32:55] <pfred1> which has its good points and bad ones
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[01:33:53] <pfred1> as far as I can tell LinuxCNC never compromises integrity in the name of convenience
[01:34:03] <pfred1> just how it is
[01:34:24] <pfred1> sure it might be nice if it did some stuff but then it wouldn't be what it is
[01:36:19] <Valen> djdelorie: we either split the gcode into one file per tool or if we break a tool use run from line after touching off
[01:36:36] <djdelorie> Valen: I ended up splitting the job into one-per-tool
[01:37:27] <Valen> if you were jobbing i can see it being a pain in the ass
[01:37:36] <djdelorie> skunkworks__: last time this came up, it was a *complex* MOP
[01:37:38] <Valen> but then if your jobbing manual tool changes will suck
[01:37:57] <skunkworks__> for some definition of simple....
[01:38:27] <Valen> if you have a tool height probe, could the automagic tool change be made to work?
[01:38:55] <pfred1> djdelorie just figure out a way where you can set the bits the correct lengths in the long run you'll be better off
[01:39:31] <Valen> collets do up to different heights each time, you need to re zero if you want to be accurate
[01:39:40] <pfred1> could probably fold up a piece of sheet metal to make a gauge
[01:39:50] <djdelorie> the topic came up wrt others' posts about mach3 vs linuxcnc, the inability to jog during a tool change was one of the reasons to go to mach3.
[01:40:04] <djdelorie> If it bothers *me*, I have plenty of tact switches to adapt to a make a sensor :-)
[01:40:29] <jdhnc> I loaded someones new hal_manualtoolchange that lets you jog & turn off spindle during tool change
[01:40:30] <pfred1> djdelorie you mean make a touch off probe?
[01:40:47] <djdelorie> pfred1: sure, I could do that if I wanted.
[01:40:53] <pfred1> lots do
[01:40:57] <djdelorie> but not everyone
[01:41:33] <pfred1> man this monitor looks better with my new card
[01:44:08] <skunkworks__> djdelorie: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ManualToolChangeMacro
[01:45:29] <pfred1> macaroni and cheese
[01:45:46] <skunkworks__> it is just a glorified RFL
[01:45:54] <pfred1> RFL?
[01:47:33] <skunkworks__> run from liine
[01:47:42] <pfred1> ta
[01:48:19] <pfred1> I've heard of people bringing the topic up but there is a method that is just different than how mach does it
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[02:00:18] <joe9> that can take me through the process of writing a simple gcode program. I can write gcode to draw a rectangle.
[02:00:51] <joe9> i do not understand all the G codes / coordinate systems available.
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[02:01:14] <joe9> wondering if anyone has any thoughts that can help with my gcode baby steps.
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[02:05:20] <jdhnc> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=21&id=18843&limit=6#18853
[02:05:34] <jdhnc> that lets you jog during manual tool change
[02:05:53] <jdhnc> joe9: what do you want todo?
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[02:06:25] <joe9> jdhnc: just learn to be comfortable with gcode programming. I am getting lost with the gcode in the examples.
[02:07:34] <joe9> i want to be able to use gcode as I would write an svg file. get comfortable enough that I can do this with linuxcnc: write gcode file in vim and then see it with linuxcnc.
[02:07:45] <joe9> i can open the file and all that.
[02:08:02] <joe9> just need to be more comfortable with gcode -- this is what I am lacking.
[02:08:16] <jdhnc> no clue what an svg file looks like :)
[02:08:32] <jdhnc> so your analogy kind of falls short with me!
[02:08:34] <joe9> svg is just an xml file to describe images
[02:11:19] <jdhnc> so, a gcode file is just a non-xml file to describe tool paths
[02:11:26] <joe9> yes.
[02:11:49] <jdhnc> Find something you want to cut out, try writing the g-code for it.
[02:12:01] <joe9> http://www.sherline.com/CNCinst6.0.htm seems helpful.
[02:12:23] <jdhnc> It's good to know, but for anything relatively complex, I'd just as soon draw it in a CAD package and run some CAM on it.
[02:12:32] <joe9> oh, ok. thanks.
[02:12:57] <KimK> joe9: Also, there are two ways to write gcode, the "east coast" way (program the part profile, with a "true" tool offset) and the "west coast" way (program the tool path, with a "zero" tool offset)
[02:14:30] <jdhnc> G41/G42 are quite nifty, after you figure out the lead in
[02:15:05] <joe9> http://cncutil.org/gcode-introduction.html
[02:15:32] <KimK> joe9: Either way is correct. The part profile way is easier to understand and relate to the part drawing. The tool path way is harder to follow when looking at the part drawing, but makes for fewer tool table editing mistakes by tired/bored operators.
[02:15:44] <jdhnc> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html
[02:16:21] <Valen> offset tools are the "better" way of doing it in that you can measure your actual tool dia and it'll make the part right
[02:16:34] <Valen> but most cam packages seem to prefer the no offset way
[02:16:55] <Valen> the better ones want to use offsets more
[02:17:23] <joe9> KimK: i think the "east coast" way is easier to start off
[02:17:28] <jdhnc> for a CAM package, it is jsut as easy for it to do the offsets vs. trying to guess what a proper lead-in would be.
[02:18:10] <KimK> joe9: Sounds good to me.
[02:18:35] <Valen> we made one actual part by hand writing the g code
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[02:18:45] <Valen> (with arcs and such like)
[02:18:57] <Valen> at that point we went screw it and use cam ;->
[02:19:10] <jdhnc> I made some stuff for my boat with hand gcode
[02:19:18] <joe9> i am looking to just carve a few straight lines to make sure that I understand gcode enough. I can draw a rectangle now.
[02:19:28] <joe9> looking to graduate to the next step.
[02:19:40] <djdelorie> there's a reason why computers are so good at math and boring repetitive tasks...
[02:19:43] <jdhnc> draw a rectangle with radiused corners
[02:20:02] <KimK> joe9: You need a project! Anything you need to make?
[02:20:13] <Valen> the G code you need to really know is everything except for g1 lol
[02:20:32] <Valen> cam packages spit out G1 and arcs (if your lucky)
[02:20:45] <Valen> knowing about the different drill cycles can be handy
[02:20:51] <djdelorie> g1 is the only one I use in MDI
[02:21:02] <joe9> kimk, i want to engrave some text (name) on a plywood piece (as a start).
[02:21:06] <Valen> also stuff like the exact path vs smooth path
[02:21:10] <Valen> joe9: use cam lol
[02:21:25] <joe9> valen, oh, ok. thanks. is cam opensource?
[02:21:27] <the-jub> hi :)
[02:21:28] <Valen> you will be 3 weeks doing it by hand
[02:21:38] <KimK> joe9: Great! Have you got truetype-tracer installed?
[02:21:39] <Valen> there are path to gcode converters for inkscape
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[02:22:21] <joe9> no, I do not care about fonts and all that. just simple straight lines to familiarise myself with the coordinate system.
[02:22:24] <djdelorie> joe9: "cam" is a technology, there are many cam packages, some are open source
[02:22:55] <joe9> djdelorie: which do you use? in the past, it has always been a safe bet to follow your footsteps on these.
[02:23:07] <djdelorie> cam == computer aided manufacturing ?
[02:23:08] <joe9> djdelorie: if you do not mind sharing.
[02:23:20] <joe9> no, the cam package that you use.
[02:23:30] <djdelorie> for the simple things I'm doing, heekscnc is sufficient, but I don't think it does fonts
[02:23:42] <djdelorie> (or if it does, I haven't discovered it yet)
[02:23:46] <joe9> i do not need fonts, just straight lines for now.
[02:23:54] <djdelorie> g1 x0 y0 ?
[02:23:54] <joe9> will check out heekscnc. thanks.
[02:24:31] <KimK> joe9: Oh, OK. Well, that's harder. You'd have to get graph paper or a CAD screen and define your characters point-by-point. Instead, don't you have some useful project that you'd like to make?
[02:24:32] <djdelorie> if you just want to do straight lines, G1 and F are the only codes you need to know, once you've copied a header from a working file
[02:24:39] <Valen> for "art" check out inkscape
[02:24:54] <Valen> g0 is handy (and scary) too djdelorie
[02:26:13] <skunkworks__> every one needs a jog wheel hooked to 'maximum velocity'... makes the machine less scary
[02:27:33] <joe9> ok, thanks guys. let me read up on some tutorials.
[02:27:48] <joe9> KimK: thanks. let me try one character first and get a feel for the task.
[02:28:01] <djdelorie> hm... milling at maximum travel speed... yeah, scary
[02:29:04] <pfred1> not in foam
[02:29:28] <djdelorie> I've got foam...
[02:29:31] <pfred1> djdelorie I like that die grinder you're using as a spindle
[02:29:36] <pfred1> its sharp
[02:29:56] <djdelorie> it's perfect for that purpose, too. Although I have no idea what CFM it requires
[02:30:05] <djdelorie> so far, less than 12 ;-)
[02:30:10] <pfred1> I copped a bosch trim router at a flea market cheap that I use
[02:30:32] <pfred1> it is only 30K RPM though
[02:30:38] <djdelorie> I have a second setup that uses a standard 1.5HP router too
[02:31:08] <pfred1> I do have a little ultra high speed pneumatic die grinder
[02:31:22] <pfred1> it doesn't have a whole lot of torque though
[02:31:42] <pfred1> it is a really nice Swiss made one
[02:32:19] <pfred1> thing is crazy when I start it it sounds liek a jet taking off
[02:32:34] <thinpete> anyone ever try a dentists drill for PCB routing?
[02:32:50] <pfred1> that is sort of what djdelorie has
[02:32:56] <djdelorie> the air spindle sounds like a dentist's drill
[02:33:25] <pfred1> let me find a pic of the goofy thing i have
[02:33:31] <thinpete> what kind of bearings?
[02:33:54] <djdelorie> dunno, but mine comes with an inline oiler
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[02:34:19] <pfred1> the one with the black whip hose in this pic http://www.instructables.com/image/F22VXT2GKLJ5O8R/Pneumatics.jpg
[02:35:50] <pfred1> in the fat part on the end there is a wheel in there with drill holes in it that is the turbine
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[02:36:03] <pfred1> thing must really be balanced
[02:36:23] <pfred1> because it is a pretty big wheel and it goes at the RPM of the tool
[02:36:23] <thinpete> 1/8 collet?
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[02:36:36] <pfred1> it is changable
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[02:42:27] <thinpete> well I'm happy, the PCIE bridge showed on our 6I25 proto
[02:42:29] <thinpete> always a nail-biter when first testing PCIE stuff
[02:44:59] <skunkworks__> thinpete? Peter?
[02:45:24] <skunkworks__> PCW?
[02:45:37] <thinpete> yeah someone complained that my XXXPCWXXX looked fat
[02:45:44] <pfred1> thinpete :)
[02:45:45] <skunkworks__> heh
[02:45:59] <pfred1> or it looks like you have wings
[02:46:11] <skunkworks__> you sure they didn't mean phat?
[02:46:22] <thinpete> This computer was going into suspend and i was running out of names
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[02:47:12] <pfred1> I'm not 100% sure i can use suspend on this system
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[02:47:28] <pfred1> I think it may mess with my gfx cards
[02:47:39] <pfred1> it might be what burnt one out
[02:47:49] <pcw_home> works fine on ubuntu 12.04 and whatever this thing is
[02:48:10] <pfred1> well I had one burn up and another go into an unrecoverable had to reboot state
[02:48:27] <pcw_home> after suspend?
[02:48:28] <pfred1> since then I've been a little leary about using it
[02:48:30] <pfred1> yup
[02:48:47] <pfred1> each time i woke the box up it had issues
[02:48:58] <pcw_home> maybe no one watching the fire
[02:49:03] <pfred1> once gfx card never came back other time it did only after a reboot
[02:49:35] <pfred1> I guess i should test it again while i can still return this card
[02:49:46] <pcw_home> :-)
[02:49:46] <pfred1> because i do like the concept
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[02:50:39] <skunkworks__> I can go weeks with this laptop.. but after a while things do get a little funky...... twice now the mouse has disapeared
[02:50:43] <pfred1> I just got one of these on sale it'll be $15 after the rebate http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500208
[02:51:42] <pcw_home> wireless sometime is funny with suspend as well
[02:51:53] <pcw_home> sometimes
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[02:52:09] <pfred1> well suspend shuts down networking
[02:52:27] <pfred1> I see my wired network come back up when it comes out of it
[02:52:48] <pcw_home> well its been flawless on this system (to my surprise)
[02:53:19] <pfred1> on my laptop I decided i didn't want to do gnome but without network-manager i couldn't get my wifi to work
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[03:48:54] <r00t4rd3d> pfred1, you realize that card is pretty crappy right?
[03:49:34] <r00t4rd3d> okay for a average desktop user
[03:50:33] <r00t4rd3d> any kind of serious game and its low settings and resolution
[03:52:08] <alex4nder> yoh
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[06:53:22] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:06:36] <witdraak> what does it mean if my debug say: "inifile: warning: file contain dos-style line endings"
[07:09:34] <djdelorie> that means you used a dos-style text editor to edit them, so each line ends with a CR LF pair (13/10 decimal) instead of a single NL (10 decimal) byte
[07:11:30] <witdraak> how would i get by to fix this?
[07:11:37] <Jymmm> djdelorie: What the hell do you know about DOS?! ;)
[07:12:16] <Jymmm> witdraak: Use a linux editor
[07:12:21] <Connor> OKay, What is the diff between pwm and pdm ?
[07:12:42] <witdraak> using Gedit atm
[07:13:43] <Connor> Still trying to get this stupid C6 speed controller to work.
[07:14:14] <Connor> I think I'm running into issues with the computer maxing out at 16Khz .. but need 25Khz for the C6
[07:14:42] <djdelorie> witdraak: linux comes with a dos2unix utility
[07:15:04] <djdelorie> Jymmm: I grew up on dos, created djgpp even.
[07:15:23] <Jymmm> djdelorie: (It at least USED to, not sure anymore, might be in the archives now)
[07:15:32] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I know, it was a joke =)
[07:15:55] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I stil have to hit you up on that some day too =)
[07:16:09] <djdelorie> ;-)
[07:17:12] <witdraak> im guessing it is atm the least of my problems then... will find that dos2unix util later
[07:21:19] <witdraak> i think im the noobist of all linux users...is there a think i can troubleshoot all of these error codes on linuxcnc
[07:21:39] <djdelorie> what codes? That was plain English...
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[07:27:47] <witdraak> cn not find -sec IO -var IO -num 1
[07:27:57] <witdraak> can not find -sec IO -var IO -num 1
[07:28:27] <witdraak> those are one of them
[07:30:17] <witdraak> don't want to bother you guys to much with these maby easy Q's so was just wandering if there is any troubleshooting pages that will help with these kind of stuff.. also not have to read a whole 50 lines just to get one answer
[07:30:19] <awallin> witdraak: what's that? what are you trying to do?
[07:30:50] <witdraak> that is one of the errors i get when running linuxcnc in the debug section
[07:32:03] <awallin> hm, start with something simple. does the sim/axis config start & work ?
[07:33:15] <witdraak> well it all works but when i add the lines to get the gladevcp demo to work on my current program i get the errors
[07:34:58] <witdraak> is it posible to add them in line by line and check error?
[07:36:04] <awallin> I haven't worked with gladevcp, if it's anything like pyvcp there's one file that defines the UI, and a HAL-file that hooks up UI pins to linuxCNC pins. they all need to work together pretty much..
[07:38:34] <witdraak> ah im gonna add the code into my ini file one by one then check if i can get the problem
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[07:45:39] <witdraak> my problem lies with "POSTGUI_HALFILE = ../gladevcp/manual-example.hal" im guessing that gives the funtionality of the ui and py file
[07:48:57] <alex_joni> witdraak: there is also dos2unix which converts lineendings
[07:49:26] <alex_joni> n/m ;)
[07:50:11] <witdraak> care to give the name of the converter? would benifit me from searching between my endless lines of dosendings
[07:50:40] <witdraak> i tiped in dos2unix and seem to not get it...
[07:51:32] <Jymmm> http://www.virtualhelp.me/linux/164-dos2unix-missing-ubuntu-1004
[07:52:04] <witdraak> and what i know about linux is "how to cut a knife" not "build a terminator"
[07:56:10] <witdraak> looks like some folklore if you ask me
[07:56:41] <Jymmm> witdraak: the alternative is to start over from scratch.
[07:56:58] <witdraak> more folklore
[07:57:35] <Jymmm> witdraak: Dude, do you want help or just want to bash everything?
[07:58:01] <witdraak> hehe yea thanx allot im trying it out but doesn't seem to work
[07:58:10] <witdraak> or i don't understand it...
[08:01:20] <archivist> or dont diagnose the error
[08:04:51] <witdraak> i will figure your dos2unix thing probably just need to sharpen the tool a bit got my gladestuff working but found a downside to mine as soon as i use one of the glade buttons up down left right seems to not work
[08:05:18] <witdraak> is that the downside of using gladevcp to using pyvcp?
[08:05:43] <witdraak> it seems to focus to the tab as a diferent program
[08:08:09] <witdraak> is there a way to make it just a push button with no focus ?
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[08:28:08] <witdraak> im guessing im the only one founding that as a nuesance seing im using a keyboard emulator as a pendant...
[08:33:25] <tiago_> I don't know, but seem to be a logical way
[08:35:26] <alex_joni> witdraak: juve@eneas:~$ apt-cache search dos2unix
[08:35:26] <alex_joni> tofrodos - Converts DOS <-> Unix text files, alias tofromdos
[08:35:38] <alex_joni> dos2unix
[08:35:38] <alex_joni> dos2unix: Need to specify filename or redirect stdin.
[08:36:37] <alex_joni> witdraak: the gladevcp stuff stealing focus is a bug, and I saw some recent comments on that, maybe a fix even, not sure
[08:36:53] <alex_joni> (didn't look very closely, but a search on the mailing list might turn up something))
[08:41:25] <witdraak> will have a look
[08:41:28] <witdraak> thanx
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[08:42:33] <witdraak> oh wait i don't have a mailing list...
[08:43:02] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[08:43:10] <witdraak> ola
[08:51:51] <witdraak> anyhow im done for today.... did post the Q in the forums maby there is someone who knows how to get the focus thing sorted out :
[08:51:55] <witdraak> :)
[08:52:04] <witdraak> o7 ciao
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[09:06:42] <alex_joni> Jymmm: http://peterlengyel.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/82.jpg
[09:07:13] <Jymmm> alex_joni: your back door?
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[09:09:37] <Jymmm> alex_joni: If that's your secret escape route, it's not very secret anymore =)
[09:09:56] <ReadError> wouldnt want to stumble out that door to take a pee intoxicated
[09:11:56] <Jymmm> Why not? the sharp spikes on the railing would prevent you from falling.
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[09:19:14] <alex_joni> Jymmm: heh, I just thought it looks cool
[09:19:28] <alex_joni> http://peterlengyel.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/87.jpg <- other side
[09:19:28] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Is it fake or real?
[09:19:31] <alex_joni> real
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[09:19:59] <Jymmm> ah, ok. cool
[09:20:07] <Jymmm> where?
[09:20:48] <Tom_itx> where's the garage?
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[09:42:22] <alex_joni> Jymmm: bulgaria/Lom area
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[10:59:17] <ReadError> mornin yall
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[12:31:27] <jdhnc> anyone have a US source for inexpensive boxes to mount drives/terminals?
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[12:44:01] <Jymmm> jdhnc: your funny =)
[12:44:25] <Jymmm> jdhnc: abandond factories?
[12:45:34] <jdhnc> I could use plastic
[12:46:06] <Jymmm> jdhnc: then just use old PC cases that have been gutted
[12:46:21] <Jymmm> it'll keep EMI/RFI down too
[12:46:59] <jdhnc> There was a big dumpster outside one of the buildings the other week with an old machine that had been trashed. Full of 80/20 extrusion, prox switches, cylinders, control cabinets... all scrapped.
[12:47:35] <Jymmm> you should have went dumpster diving then
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[12:47:41] <jdhnc> PC case is my fall back, but one of my drives is pretty big and not shaped well for a small case.
[12:47:47] <jdhnc> can't take any of it.
[12:47:56] <Jymmm> why?
[12:48:03] <jdhnc> policy
[12:48:13] <Jymmm> did you ask?
[12:48:20] <jdhnc> of course
[12:48:36] <Jymmm> did you get a buddy to ask or just get it for you?
[12:48:38] <jdhnc> people unofficially take stuff like that, but it is considered theft if they want it to be.
[12:49:14] <Jymmm> what about buying it for $1/lb ?
[12:49:39] <Jymmm> or some such thing
[12:49:44] <jdhnc> there is a policy for that too. Has to go through some committee, then put up for all employee purchase
[12:50:08] <Jymmm> oh gawd
[12:50:19] <jdhnc> there are 100+ PC's waiting to be scrapped. Can't take the cases either.
[12:52:57] <Jymmm> you poor bastard
[12:53:21] <Jymmm> almost everyone here dumpster dives, except you =)
[12:54:45] <jdhnc> just not from work.
[12:55:06] <jdhnc> we are in a security fence with armed guards.
[12:55:12] <Jymmm> didn't you just say that everything you need for cnc is in the dumpster at work?
[12:55:33] <jdhnc> pretty much.
[12:55:48] <Jymmm> Oh that's an idea.... make a cnc FOR work, but grab enough parts to make three
[12:56:12] <Jymmm> It's still company property then
[12:56:42] <Jymmm> and gets around the BS policies too
[12:57:25] <Valen> "policy" like that shits me
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[15:40:14] * archivist wonders if rob_h got to mach today what should I look out for tomorrow
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[16:00:11] <Connor> Anyone around?
[16:00:17] <archivist> no
[16:00:43] <Connor> Having some issues with stepgen. I've set it up to generate a 25Khz signal for my C6 Speed control.. works okay up till around 16Khz, then goes really strange.
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[16:02:48] <archivist> but what is your base thread set to
[16:03:16] <Connor> base-thread: I've had as low as 15000
[16:03:35] <cradek> can you describe goes really strange?
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[16:04:22] <Connor> Sure. after about 16Khz, it jumps around allot betwen 20 and 25Khz.
[16:04:46] <Connor> I've never seen anything between 16 and 20
[16:05:08] <cradek> how are you measuring it?
[16:05:11] <Connor> Hal Scope says otherwise. but my digital O-Scope doesn't confirm hal scope.
[16:05:32] <archivist> aliasing
[16:05:34] <Connor> and the C6 doesn't respond correctly either.
[16:05:38] <cradek> you do understand that the output can only change when the base period runs, right?
[16:06:08] <Connor> cradek: Yea.
[16:06:26] <cradek> when you're up near the output changing every period or two, you're going to see a lot of granularity
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[16:06:52] <cradek> can the C6 be made to use lower frequencies?
[16:07:09] <Connor> No. I think I'm switching it out for a C41 which use PWM.
[16:07:15] <archivist> it does have adjustment so probably
[16:07:28] <cradek> (I don't know anything about it)
[16:07:29] <Connor> archivist: That's for voltage limit
[16:07:51] <archivist> Connor, /gain which is what you want to change
[16:08:17] <Connor> let me link to the standard config for this thing..
[16:08:30] <archivist> run a lower max F and increase the voltage so it is 10 at that freq
[16:08:58] <Connor> http://cnc4pc.com/Files/EMC2.txt
[16:09:25] <Connor> I started with that.
[16:09:45] <Connor> based on what I can tell.. that puts out a max of 1.3Khz.
[16:10:33] <Connor> well.. maybe not.. not sure what the net effect of the scale gain is on that one.
[16:10:52] <Connor> I think my base thread is just too high and my machine can't handle much lower.
[16:11:09] <jdhnc> why this over PWM?
[16:11:30] <Connor> jdhnc: Cause I didn't notice the PWM and this is what other people were using.
[16:11:33] <cradek> it does seem like that will have a max of 1.3kHz, with 1300 units/sec and 1 pulse/unit
[16:12:14] <cradek> so maybe full output for this device is 1.3kHz
[16:12:31] <Connor> no. It's clearly indicated in the manual to be 25Khz.
[16:13:30] <Connor> "This card requires a 25 KHz input signal to deliver 10VDC"
[16:14:38] <Connor> I've changed maxvel to 2500 and position-scale to 10
[16:15:04] <Connor> that's how I managed to get up to 16Khz, but, anything beyond is like I said.
[16:15:53] <cradek> what's your base period now?
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[16:18:19] <cradek> what are you driving with this analog output?
[16:19:46] <Connor> It's replacing the wiper on the mill speed control.
[16:20:27] <Connor> cradek: I don't know now.. I'll have to go look.. I've been changing it. I've tride 25000, 15000 and maybe even 10000
[16:20:29] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-050103-Center-Finder-Shank/dp/B002SG7PPM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1V6OLUXV8Z3IJ&colid=1HD36PD3VHG5C
[16:20:31] <ReadError> any good?
[16:20:47] <Connor> of course, I start getting errors on lower values.
[16:21:54] <pcw_home> you probably need that reset option on stepgen to get that high a frequency
[16:22:17] <Connor> reset option ?
[16:26:43] <jdhnc> This guy has a HAL example for his C6 driving a lathe spindle: http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=10&id=11151#11277
[16:27:09] <Connor> Yea. I've tried that one too..
[16:28:58] <Connor> What I don't understand is, the maxvel is 1250.. so, he would only get 1.25khz..
[16:29:41] <Connor> Maybe it has to do with the gain on the scaling ?
[16:30:01] <jdhnc> I thougt that was max scaled rpm
[16:30:40] <Connor> I don't know. I've never done anything with step gen.
[16:34:10] <Connor> In the end.. Looks like just using raw freq is overkill with PWM option exist...
[16:35:02] <jdhnc> are you using a plain p-port?
[16:35:18] <Connor> using it via C10 BOB
[16:35:45] <Connor> and they say it needs to be buffered.. which the C10 BOB does.
[16:37:42] <joe9> my first gcode program to write the alphabet S: http://codepad.org/6lT3oiHY
[16:38:15] <joe9> any feedback would be great. it works, but, anything that I need to add to the program will be helpful.
[16:40:39] <jdhnc> what is your Z 0? bottom of work?
[16:44:43] <jdhnc> since you asked, and remember my opinion is likely suspect... I would either use Nxxxx everywhere or nowhere. I would specify G0/G1 on each line that has motion, and probably woudn't do the G92. Why switch back to inches
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[16:59:32] <rob_h> i have returned archivist
[17:00:45] <archivist> rob_h, I missed out today had a delivery to wait in for, going tomorrow, anything good?
[17:00:58] <rob_h> drives and controls show section is quite dead not alot worth there, big names are not there also, Yaskawa , baldor etc
[17:01:23] <rob_h> machine side again afew big players not there but your normal are there, but no machines on show that make you go, thats what i want
[17:01:57] <rob_h> nice range of machines this year tho on show
[17:02:08] <joe9> jdhnc: thanks. Z = 0 was the top. the Z -ve value is closer to the workpiece
[17:02:26] <joe9> jdhnc: what is the point to using Nxx? is there a need to use them?
[17:02:31] <archivist> rob_h, I like watching the citizen sliding heads
[17:02:54] <rob_h> nice show case of small companys tho this year which is good, got to speak some tool supplies
[17:03:03] <rob_h> yea they have quite a stand this year
[17:03:14] <Optic> hmm no reply from sheetcam email support
[17:03:50] <joe9> anyone using this http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ClassicLadderExamples#Single_button_probe_touchoff
[17:03:51] <rob_h> archivist, on the leader stand(leadwell) they have a nice small 8 axes lathe twin spindle quite nice money too 50/60k
[17:04:00] <archivist> rob_h, what I dont like is the daily spam from the organisers
[17:04:10] <rob_h> o too right
[17:04:21] <rob_h> y this year setup a junk email address to use
[17:04:21] <archivist> bar stewards
[17:04:33] <rob_h> any one i wanted to send me details i gave them card etc
[17:04:56] e-ndy|afk is now known as e-ndy
[17:05:22] <joe9> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CoordinateSystems is there a better place to understand coordinate systems?
[17:06:28] <joe9> i am trying to understand what the "touch off" button of the axis gui does?
[17:06:55] <djdelorie> touching off sets the part origin to be wherever the tool happens to be
[17:06:58] <jdhnc> sets the workpiece origin
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[17:07:44] <djdelorie> example: you want to carve a logo, you load the "carve-logo" gcode, it assumes it will be carving at (0,0,0) so you move the tool to where you want the logo and touch off there
[17:07:47] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/axis.html
[17:08:10] <archivist> rob_h, ah that reminds me to make up some cards for the day
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[17:10:03] <joe9> "touch off" is similar to this: G92 X00 Y00 Z00
[17:10:15] <cradek> no it's not
[17:10:32] <cradek> it's similar to various G10 invocations
[17:10:43] <joe9> cradek: ok, thanks.
[17:10:50] <cradek> in fact everything you do in the touch-off dialog issues a G10 command
[17:11:05] <cradek> reading the G10 docs and the AXIS docs will give you a very full picture
[17:11:17] <cradek> nothing you do in touch-off issues a G92 command
[17:11:24] <IchGuckLive> i got a question : if i increase the Voltige from 24 to 48 volt is the Watts of the powersorce the same request i see no amps on the meter out on 24V i see 5A
[17:15:02] <joe9> what does "classic ladder" do? i found this page: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ClassicLadderExamples
[17:15:13] <joe9> but, I have no clue what problem it is trying to address.
[17:15:22] <joe9> does everyone need "classic ladder"?
[17:16:22] <IchGuckLive> no its just a simple if then logic with relays
[17:16:45] <IchGuckLive> fore extra options toolchanger turret
[17:17:14] <archivist> IchGuckLive, depends, are you asking about motor current with a current controlled driver or current into a resistive load
[17:17:47] <pcw_home> IchGuckLive: for step drives the idle power would be about the same for a 24 pr 48V PS
[17:17:49] <pcw_home> (so 48V would be 1/2 the current)
[17:17:59] <pcw_home> (at the PS)
[17:18:39] <IchGuckLive> archivist: i only messured the power out of the source i also changed from Serial to parallel and gave it a 4A per motor on the stage but see nothing at the amp meter
[17:19:01] <IchGuckLive> it works the powerstage also gives noice if the motors hook in
[17:19:57] <pcw_home> depending on the motor resistance you may only have a few 100 mA at 48V when the motors are stopped
[17:19:57] <IchGuckLive> i woudt like to change all 26 mashines in this config thrfor it saves monex if i can go down with the powersource
[17:20:41] <IchGuckLive> this is my guess its to low or to fast to messure with a meter
[17:21:14] <IchGuckLive> the source hs 320W for 5Motors at 4,2A per phase
[17:22:21] <pcw_home> sometimes DVMs dont deal well with the switching noise
[17:24:13] <pcw_home> you should see more PS current with the motors running
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[17:27:38] <alex4nder> gents
[17:27:39] <Connor> okay, so, what would the stepgen and scale settings need to be to get the 25kz setup for 100-2500 RPM Spindle (and base thread if I need to adjust that)
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[17:27:58] <Connor> I'm going to give this one more go and if it doesn't work, swap this thing out for a C41 speed controller that works on PWM>
[17:28:13] <IchGuckLive> i will also check this ones mre tomorrow i think also the dial meter has a current flow direction maybe wrong connected
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[17:30:33] <pcw_home> Connor: how short a base period can you run error free?
[17:30:53] <Connor> I dunno. I'm just trying to see if I can even get this to work at this point.
[17:31:06] <Connor> It's running on a Dual Core 1.8ghz Atom.
[17:31:23] <MattyMatt> I need to read up on G10 v G92 too. I've been using G92 on reprap thinking it was exact equiv of touching off
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[17:31:28] <pcw_home> 25 KHz is reachable with a 40 KHz base thread and that reset doohickey
[17:31:35] <pcw_home> 40 usec
[17:31:53] <Connor> reset doohickey ?
[17:32:30] <Connor> So, base-thread @ 40000 ?
[17:32:43] <pcw_home> setp parport.0.reset-time NNNN
[17:32:56] <MattyMatt> half price hand scrapers in UK, for anyone doing a gingery -> http://www.toolbox.co.uk/faithfull-engineers-hand-4273-83275
[17:33:02] <Connor> okay, and what does NNNN need to be at..
[17:33:15] <Connor> I think I've seen that in my setup.. and it already has a number..
[17:33:45] <pcw_home> reset is used so the stepgen can generate a pulse per thread invocation
[17:33:47] <pcw_home> (rather than a pulse every 2 invocations)
[17:34:33] <pcw_home> doe the BOB have a minimum pulse width spec? (the reset line needs that number)
[17:34:37] <pcw_home> does
[17:34:43] <jdhnc> Matty: what's a 'gingery'?
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[17:35:34] <Connor> 10ns ?
[17:35:38] <MattyMatt> and on the subject of cheapskates. this chinese 4-axis is 100 times better with this done (X&Y only fixed so far in this pic) http://i.imgur.com/WJDu3.jpg
[17:35:59] <Connor> Typical signal Delay says 10ns, and Max operation freq is 4 Mhz
[17:36:03] <MattyMatt> jdhnc, Gingery lathe with home cast and hand scraped alu bed
[17:36:54] <jdhnc> are you bypassing optos with that or what?
[17:36:59] <MattyMatt> yep
[17:37:19] <MattyMatt> optos that were pointless anyway, as there's a buffer before them
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[17:37:25] <pcw_home> for the frequency to voltage converter?
[17:37:46] <pcw_home> 10 ns seems fast for that
[17:37:59] <Connor> ok. so. the reset value ?
[17:38:20] <Connor> Looks like i have to set stepspace to 0
[17:38:30] <Connor> steplen to 1
[17:38:43] <Connor> let me look and see what the reset-time is.
[17:38:44] <Connor> brb
[17:39:02] <pcw_home> But since the PP cannot make pulses shorter than about 1 uSec, minimum reste time should be fine
[17:39:10] <pcw_home> reset
[17:40:45] <Connor> okay. reset is 1200
[17:42:15] <jdhnc> shoudln't steplen be much higher than 1?
[17:43:45] <Connor> jdhnc: I dunno..
[17:45:09] <pcw_home> I dont know where the reset thing is documented
[17:45:10] <pcw_home> I would think it sets the step length if used
[17:45:22] <jdhnc> perhaps thread-time/desired freq?
[17:46:45] <jdhnc> I should mention that I'm being forced to write vb.net code so my judgement is perhaps unsound.
[17:47:06] <pcw_home> yeah it in the stepgen manual (stepspace 0, steplen < 1 period)
[17:47:57] <Connor> okay. so parport reset value ?
[17:48:22] <Jymmm> jdhnc: Unless I actually see the gun pointed at your head and verify it is in fact loaded, nobody is FORCING you.
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[17:48:36] <jdhnc> would this be simplified (and more robust) with a 5i25/7i43?
[17:48:58] <jdhnc> Jymm: there are other forces in the world, and everything is relative.
[17:49:39] <Jymmm> jdhnc: Bullpucky, you could simply deny all knowledge of such things.
[17:49:51] <Jymmm> VBwhat?
[17:50:10] <Jymmm> PH&J?
[17:50:10] <jdhnc> I am paid pretty well to do whatever is needed.
[17:50:21] <Jymmm> jdhnc: So?
[17:50:43] <Connor> probably would be easier with a 5i25, but I don't have one..
[17:50:48] <Jymmm> So are hookers, but even they have standards unlike you!
[17:50:52] <jdhnc> Connor, you could!
[17:51:05] <jdhnc> buy 5, I'll take two.
[17:51:23] <Connor> yea. tight on $$.. I would probably be better off swapping this C6 for a C41 which works with PWM
[17:51:40] <Connor> which might be exactly what I do if I can't get this to work in the next 30 minutes or so.
[17:51:57] <Jymmm> jdhnc: Hell man, even crack whores have standards!
[17:52:37] <jdhnc> Jymmm: maybe. I actually got propositioned by a crack whore in teh harbor freight parking lot last night.
[17:52:45] <jdhnc> well, not sure about the crack part.
[17:53:23] <alex4nder> hot
[17:53:55] <pcw_home> Probably need a new 5I25 config for that bob
[17:53:55] <pcw_home> and you still need to understand the position scale stuff
[17:53:55] <pcw_home> (the hardware stepgen is set up very similarly to the software stepgen)
[17:53:55] <pcw_home> so if you can do it with PP no need for 5I25
[17:54:32] <jdhnc> steplen 40000, stepspace 0 should give 25khz?
[17:54:40] <Jymmm> jdhnc: See, s/he at least only goes for the living. You on the other hand endorse, promote, and help in developing the world oldest and most profitable virus in the world!
[17:55:22] <pcw_home> steplen 1 stepspace 0, then set stepgen velocity appropriately
[17:55:57] <pcw_home> (and PP reset time 1000 or so)
[17:56:05] <IchGuckLive> jdhnc: is 15┬Ás =15000ns
[17:56:05] <IchGuckLive> or 150000
[17:56:20] <jdhnc> yeah, I can live with it. It is just a HMI/oracle interface. The real stuff is done in a PLC and some compumotor controllers.
[17:56:40] diddlybits is now known as ybit
[17:56:48] <Jymmm> jdhnc: oracle iface? for what?
[17:57:56] <jdhnc> jymmm: check product release, operator qualifications, product specs, engineering assembly validation, stuff
[17:58:28] <Jymmm> jdhnc: and that goes to the PLC?
[17:59:36] <jdhnc> jymmm: yeah, it does some supervisory stuff too though
[18:00:21] <jdhnc> I could probably do it in a canned HMI/SCADA package, but that is often painful for updates and 3rd party support.
[18:00:23] <Jymmm> jdhnc: Hmmm, ok. interesting. If you get tired of the VB BS try autoit instead =)
[18:01:25] <jdhnc> nah, this is a 'real' app.
[18:01:42] <jdhnc> that looks cool for automated testing though
[18:02:08] <Jymmm> jdhnc: dont let the description fool you, it can be complied as well
[18:02:50] <Jymmm> jdhnc: It STARTED out as an admin tool, but is far more than that.
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[18:03:50] <jdhnc> The units for steplen, stepspace, dirsetup, and dirhold have been changed from BASE_PERIOD units to nanosecond units. Internally, the values given are rounded up to a multiple of BASE_PERIOD,
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[18:04:23] <jdhnc> is that no longer accurate?
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[18:12:11] <pcw_home> Thats correct, it just that reset mode is special
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[18:14:17] <pcw_home> and looks like it requires stepspace = 0
[18:15:21] <Connor> okay, I set base_thread to 40000, steplen to 1, stepspace to 0, reset anything from 600 to 1200 and still can't get anything stable above 12 to 16Mhz.
[18:15:28] <Connor> before it starts looking really strange.
[18:15:46] <jdhnc> strange how?
[18:15:54] <Connor> It's not stable.
[18:16:50] <pcw_home> well its not going to be stable, the _average_ frequency should be OK though
[18:17:10] <pcw_home> can you lower you base thread period?
[18:17:25] <Connor> I think I start getting errors around 20000
[18:17:48] <pcw_home> maybe try 25000 or so
[18:18:08] <Connor> and again, I never SEE freq between 16 to 25
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[18:18:36] <Connor> I can see it walk up by 1khz or so up to about 12 to 16 (depending on settings), then it jumps up to 20 or 25
[18:19:39] <pcw_home> it should dither between 25 KHz and 12.5 KHz
[18:20:31] <pcw_home> that is a 40 usec period interspersed with 80 usec periods
[18:21:00] <pcw_home> (the best you can do with a 40 use thread)
[18:21:02] <pcw_home> usec
[18:21:50] <pcw_home> what does the analog output do above 1/2 scale?
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[18:22:32] <pcw_home> if it averages the frequency it should be fine
[18:27:57] <Connor> Yea, I think I'm going to change this out for the C41
[18:28:00] <Connor> this is nutz.
[18:28:12] <Connor> what's pissing me off is Mach3 can do this no problem.
[18:28:44] <jdhnc> sounds similar to the mach vs. emc chargepump thing on diy-cnc
[18:29:09] <Connor> What's that about? Because I have a charge pump too.
[18:29:16] <Connor> I've yet to even hook it up.
[18:30:33] <jdhnc> http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/DIY-CNC/messages
[18:30:48] <jdhnc> the 'I gave up on linuxcnc' thread
[18:31:26] <pcw_home> Check the analog no PP device will be jitter free
[18:31:56] <Connor> I have.
[18:32:24] <Connor> at some point, it stops going up, then starts going back down.. and I can't get the full range..
[18:32:58] <jdhnc> can you turn the gain up to get full scale from 16khz?
[18:33:14] <Connor> you mean the pot ?
[18:33:22] <jdhnc> yeah, on the c6
[18:33:56] <Connor> I didn't think that was gain, I thought that was a limit. I adjust it to be 7v at the top end of that arc.. but, then, it only has about 1 to 1.5v worth of range.
[18:34:43] <jdhnc> might not be, but I would assume there are zero/span settings?
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[18:35:02] <Connor> The only adjustment is that 1 pot.
[18:35:52] <jdhnc> you are going to use this on the stock g0704 speed control?
[18:35:59] <Connor> yup.
[18:36:21] <pcw_home> Sounds like something else is wrong, no excuse for it going back down again unless you are violating its timing somehow
[18:36:42] <Connor> I wish I had a freq generator.
[18:36:56] <Connor> might be able to put one together with a arduino.
[18:41:15] <jdhnc> on the bright side, I can hold off on speed control until you figure it out, or I can just turn the pot by hand.
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[18:41:35] <Tom_L> http://www.mouser.com/tidk-lm3s-drv8312/?cm_mmc=Email-_-April2012-_-Industrial-Newsletter-_-TILearnMore
[18:41:59] <Tom_L> motor driver
[18:42:16] <jdhnc> Tom_L: that's weird, I just looked at that this morning.
[18:42:22] <Tom_L> hah
[18:42:37] <Tom_L> just checked my email
[18:42:39] <Connor> I think the 704 goes up to 90v
[18:44:10] <pcw_home> you could use the pwmgen to generate a 12.5 KHz square wave (at 40000 ns base thread)
[18:44:11] <pcw_home> and check analog for 1/2 way up
[18:44:23] <jdhnc> oh, that was in the mouser email this morning.
[18:44:30] <Tom_itx> yup
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[19:04:54] <andypugh> I think I posted this not where I intended to post it: Interesting for Mac-owners (And possibly Windows dudes, but not Linux Geeks) http://labs.autodesk.com/technologies/fusion/overview/
[19:06:45] <archivist> etcha sketch
[19:06:54] <archivist> :)
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[19:17:59] <Jymmm> cradek: You cat lovin freak, here ya go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aTagDSnclk
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[19:59:36] <joe9> G92 offset is easy to understand. Is there an inclination to use G92 over G5x (G53, G54..) codes? or, what would determine which is the better coordinate system to use?
[20:00:28] <joe9> alex4nder: looks like "touch off" is a big deal. Is it?
[20:01:42] <joe9> It would be easy to touch off to one side and do stuff. but, I want to do something to both sides (align both the sides). I am wondering if anyone can suggest any fixtures that can help with the alignment.
[20:02:12] <joe9> I am thinking of face milling a wood piece with 2 holes on corners and putting my workpiece aligned to those 2 holes.
[20:02:46] <alex4nder> joe9: it's how you sync up your mill's coordinate system with the thing you're milling
[20:02:49] <alex4nder> so it's a pretty big deal
[20:02:54] <joe9> but, then I would need 2 fixtures. one to drill the holes in the workpiece, and, another to hold it down while milling.
[20:02:55] <jdhnc> I have never used G92, only touchoff/g54 (and g55)
[20:03:26] <joe9> jdhnc: how did you learn it? about G54, etc.
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[20:03:41] <joe9> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CoordinateSystems is not helping me.
[20:03:50] <jdhnc> I tried to run the emc logo and it said "touch off"
[20:03:58] <alex4nder> joe9: it's straight forward
[20:04:07] <jdhnc> move X to your zero position, hit touch off, hit enter
[20:04:14] <jdhnc> move y to y zero, touch off,
[20:04:24] <alex4nder> and zero, he means relative to the g-code you're running
[20:04:26] <jdhnc> move z to either top or bottom of work, touch off the appropriate value
[20:04:28] <alex4nder> or whatever.
[20:04:42] <jdhnc> zero relative to the stock
[20:04:56] <alex4nder> well zero relative to the stock is completely dependent on the program
[20:05:10] <jdhnc> joe: touch off is trivially easy. G92 requires thought (IMO)
[20:05:45] <alex4nder> if my code depends on the centerline of the stock for zero, then I need to consider touchoff from that centerline.
[20:05:59] <joe9> jdhnc: but, in your case you are assuming that the workpiece zero == machine zero. isn't that normally not true?
[20:06:28] <jdhnc> joe9: that is incorrect.
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[20:07:29] <jdhnc> in my case, I set g54 to work/code zero
[20:07:35] <jdhnc> via touch off
[20:09:43] <alex4nder> joe9: the simplest way to think about all this is: how does your machine know where you put the piece you're milling, on the table?
[20:10:04] <alex4nder> touch off is how you tell it that
[20:14:20] <joe9> jdhnc: when I touch off using the method described by you, X becomes 0 after "touchoff". But, Y and Z are not changing to 0. They remain at the value they were before.
[20:14:43] <joe9> I select Y and then press 'Touch off'
[20:15:05] <joe9> it pops up a dialog "Enter Y coordinate relative to the workpiece"
[20:15:31] <djdelorie> i.e. "what Y coordinate is the tool at now? "
[20:15:33] <joe9> value is 0.0, and the Coordinate system is "P2 G55"
[20:15:45] <joe9> djdelorie: G21, Y90.000
[20:16:12] <joe9> when I press "Ok" on the touch-off button, I see the blue line in the status bar
[20:16:34] <joe9> and it does not seem to change the value of Y though.
[20:16:36] <djdelorie> joe9: I mean, the dialog is asking you that, and *it* sets the Y90
[20:16:54] <djdelorie> "effectively" at least
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[20:17:19] <joe9> my mistake.
[20:17:25] <djdelorie> touching off is a way to let the user decide, at milling time, where the part "is" relative to the milling operations
[20:17:35] <djdelorie> rather than hard code a machine offset in the g-code
[20:17:37] <joe9> i was under the impression that G54 = x, G55 = y and so on.
[20:17:45] <joe9> but, it was G2 G54 for all axes.
[20:18:55] <djdelorie> the way gcode is normally used in small machines, the *operator* decides what the part origin is, not the gcode
[20:18:55] <andypugh> G92 is typically used for a temporary offset. G54 and friends are persistent and would typically refer to vice jaws, various parts of a lathe chuck, etc.
[20:19:02] <joe9> so, when a machine is powered on, you manually do a "home" and then a "Touch off". Then, run your program, correct/
[20:19:24] <joe9> andypugh: oh, ok. thanks.
[20:19:38] <djdelorie> that's what I do. Power on, home, then manually move the tool to some "well known" location on the part, and tell the pc what coordinates that spot "is"
[20:20:03] <djdelorie> that creates a "part origin" that the gcode is relative to, so the gcode doesn't have to know where I put the part on the table
[20:20:23] <joe9> djdelorie: for milling dual sided pcb's, do you have any pics of fixtures that help with alignment?
[20:21:05] <djdelorie> nope. My theory on that is that you have to home and touch off, then let the machine mill holes for positioning pins while it's milling one side
[20:21:18] <djdelorie> so when you flip it, you insert the pins and mill everything else
[20:21:22] <andypugh> An example of G92 use is some G-code routines I have for making connector cut-outs, they are standalone routines which temporarily set the G92 origin to where the axes are when the routine is called. So I can G0 (or jog) to the centre of each connector in a panel then call the routine.
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[20:21:42] <djdelorie> or do all your position pins, drills, and mills for one side without losing your part origin, then flip to just mill the other side
[20:22:12] <joe9> djdelorie: any suggestions on what would be good to use for "position pins"?
[20:22:27] <djdelorie> perhaps some broken pcb/dremel drill bits?
[20:22:40] <joe9> andypugh: ok, thanks.
[20:22:54] <djdelorie> antyhing that's stiff enough to hold the board in position while you clamp/bold/screw it down
[20:23:05] <djdelorie> it can even be temporary, like two 1/8" drill bits :-)
[20:23:52] <joe9> djdelorie: ok, thanks.
[20:29:21] <joe9> is there any way I can "touch off" programmatically? when I know that my part zero is at X=210, Y=90 and Z = -150. I could move there and use G92. But, how can I do that using the G54 coordinate system? any samples around, please?
[20:29:46] <cradek> read the G10 docs like I suggested earlier
[20:30:34] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G10-L2_
[20:30:39] <joe9> cradek: thanks.
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[20:58:07] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:00:40] <cra_> Hello, anyone in here used a hall effect sensor chip directly as is? I want to know which way around to mount it...i.e which is the "sensing" side....or does it not matter, as long as the magnet passes somewhere near the top black plastic casing of the chip?
[21:04:13] <Tom_itx> the data sheet will tell you all that
[21:05:17] <cra_> ...your a better man than me.... http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CGUQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fallegromicro.com%2Fen%2FProducts%2F~%2Fmedia%2FFiles%2FDatasheets%2FA3141-2-3-4-Datasheet.ashx&ei=aCyPT8GxPMa-8APGtYWfCw&usg=AFQjCNEjMFtyT8ilhOOZyau4Ydu3ZDNqHA
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[21:07:42] <cra_> I can`t see anything... I feel like the magnet should pass the flat front face....but mounting it would be easier head on, if the magnet passed the top head of it
[21:09:15] <andypugh> The one I have, the sensing face is the bevelled one
[21:09:57] <andypugh> Different model, though
[21:12:05] <ReadError> hey joe9
[21:12:07] <ReadError> you around
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[21:16:36] <the-jub> morning
[21:16:46] <Tom_itx> evening
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[21:18:51] <ReadError> afternoon
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[21:40:58] <joe9> ReadError: what's up?
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[21:45:45] <ReadError> joe9
[21:45:50] <ReadError> you close to cnn center?
[21:45:58] <joe9> near emory.
[21:46:06] <joe9> is where I am
[21:46:13] <ReadError> ah ok
[21:46:25] <ReadError> was gonna say i can order the bits if you close you can pick em up while im at work
[21:47:42] <r00t4rd3d> yay i received my power supply today :)
[21:48:18] <r00t4rd3d> its sucks buying a part at a time
[21:48:33] <joe9> ReadError: what are you planning on ordering?
[21:49:04] <joe9> and, I am thinking of buying 2 of EM2E8-0625-90VC
[21:49:22] <joe9> i can pick them wherever is convenient for you.
[21:49:40] <joe9> http://www.thinktink.com/products/Mechanical_Etching_Bits.asp from here, correct? ReadError
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[21:51:27] <ReadError> ya either site
[21:51:34] <ReadError> need to get a few for routing, and drilling
[21:51:40] <ReadError> i work 7am-6pm
[21:51:44] <djdelorie> r00t4rd3d: it's like christmas every day? as long as the parts show up in the order you need them in ;-)
[21:51:50] <joe9> i need some routing and drilling bits too.
[21:52:39] <djdelorie> i need more weekends...
[21:53:36] <Tom_itx> i need more.
[21:53:41] <joe9> are "end mills" used for face milling? I want to flatten a piece of wood so that I can lay my work on top of it.
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[21:54:08] <Tom_itx> joe9, fly cutter or shell mill
[21:54:18] <joe9> tom_itx, ok, thanks.
[21:55:32] <ReadError> joe9: got any vids of it runnin?
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[21:56:09] <alex4nder> kick ass sea bass
[21:56:25] <alex4nder> the Taig really works well when you keep the chip size small but the IPM high
[21:56:30] <jdhnc> sea bass season still closed here.
[21:57:04] <alex4nder> if i keep my chip size around .020 I get really good results, and can use a lot more of the edge of the cutter
[21:57:21] <alex4nder> (this is on a 4 flute 3/16" HSS endmill cutting aluminum)
[21:57:45] <joe9> ReadError: no, i do not have any videos. btw, i used these clamps to secure the microswitches to the frame/taig: http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-ratchet-bar-clamp-spreader-46806.html
[21:58:06] <alex4nder> joe9: oh, I have an alternative to homing switches
[21:58:17] <ReadError> oh, i ordered 2 goodies today
[21:58:20] <joe9> alex4nder: which is?
[21:58:20] <alex4nder> I forgot to mention
[21:58:42] <alex4nder> with the taig, just cut your table size down by half an inch, and then home right where the stepper plates almost come in contact with the mill body
[21:58:50] <alex4nder> you can be off a quarter of an inch, and it doesn't matter.
[21:58:52] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SG7PPM/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details
[21:59:01] <alex4nder> then you set your home coords at those extremes
[21:59:20] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SG7PPC/ref=oh_o00_s00_i01_details
[22:00:15] <joe9> i don't foresee the need for an edge finder for my purposes.
[22:00:32] <alex4nder> ReadError: nice
[22:00:42] <joe9> is "ZrN coated" the best out there?
[22:00:43] <djdelorie> an edge finder lets you touch off the X and Y much more accurately than just eyeballing it
[22:01:17] <alex4nder> joe9: in engineering,there's never any 'best'
[22:01:22] <alex4nder> there's good enough, with degrees
[22:01:35] <joe9> http://www.thinktink.com/products/Mechanical_Etching_Bits.asp from here. the ZrN coated are higher priced.
[22:02:10] <alex4nder> I'd expect you to break a bunch of bits before you get your situation sorted
[22:02:13] <joe9> djdelorie: why not just a longer punch? i could not figure out how the edge finder worked. will need to check youtube.
[22:02:30] <djdelorie> it's non-obvious how it works, but it's visually very obvious
[22:02:34] <alex4nder> yup
[22:02:41] <alex4nder> smack springloaded cylinder into an edge
[22:03:09] <alex4nder> when it lines up with another cylinder, you're the radius of the smacking cylinder away from whatever you're running into
[22:03:21] <alex4nder> the other cylinder being what's chucked up in your spindle
[22:04:23] <ReadError> hope i can cram everything into an ATX case
[22:04:27] <ReadError> PSU and such
[22:04:44] <alex4nder> I hope you don't have noise problems
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[22:04:58] <ReadError> hmmm
[22:05:10] <ReadError> i can get an external box
[22:05:15] * alex4nder shrugs.
[22:05:18] <alex4nder> it might be fine
[22:05:31] <ReadError> didnt realize it would be that sensitive
[22:06:01] <joe9> the G540 does get pretty hot.
[22:06:02] <alex4nder> I need to post up this video of machining aluminum
[22:06:03] <djdelorie> joe9: this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0od-cp_9dg
[22:06:27] <ReadError> alex4nder: for sure
[22:06:41] <ReadError> is it pretty simple to convert SVG -> DXF
[22:06:53] <ReadError> or some other format i can convert to a toolpath
[22:11:21] <joe9> djdelorie: do you have an edge finder?
[22:11:34] <djdelorie> ReadError: inkscape has a "save as" dxf option
[22:11:36] <djdelorie> joe9: no
[22:11:59] <djdelorie> joe9: then again, I don't have a conventional "mill" either
[22:13:10] <ReadError> djdelorie has that bigdog router
[22:13:12] <ReadError> giant thing
[22:13:30] <djdelorie> ReadError: that's my *small* router
[22:14:09] <djdelorie> the big one is mounted in my router table: http://www.delorie.com/wood/projects/router/
[22:14:34] <andypugh> djdelorie: Have you considered using a webcam instead of touch-off?
[22:14:55] <djdelorie> the cnc one is a Porter Cable 960, it's about 1 HP. The table one is a bigger PC, it's about 2.5 HP and swings 3.5 inch bits
[22:15:26] <joe9> http://www.amazon.com/review/R1E6R4GR45D2ME/ref=cm_cr_dp?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B002SG7PPM&nodeID=16310091&store=industrial ReadError, alex4nder: this review is scary.
[22:15:26] <djdelorie> andypugh: thought about it. Don't have one that can be rigidly mounted, and the pc that runs the mill at the moment doesn't have working usb. I need to dig a more recent one out of the pile
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[22:16:09] <andypugh> Ah, yes, it does depend on the spindle design. I can fit one into a BT30 shank easily.
[22:16:39] <andypugh> In theory the camera can be on a different axis to the spindle, as long as the offset is known accurately.
[22:16:45] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.lowes.com/pd_254859-70-D26670_4294936478+4294926871__?productId=1072533&Ntt=router&Ns=p_product_price|0&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_DEWALT_4294936478%2B4294926871__s%3FNtt%3Drouter%26Ns%3Dp_product_price|0&facetInfo=DEWALT
[22:16:50] <r00t4rd3d> think that router would work well?
[22:17:22] <djdelorie> andypugh: the problem at the moment is finding a suitable camera :-)
[22:18:50] <djdelorie> r00t4rd3d: "well" depends on what you're using it for. I like the PC960 router because you can take the motor out and it's *round* so easy to mount.
[22:19:09] <djdelorie> the PC960 is about twice the HP of the one you linked to, though, and probably twice the size/weight.
[22:19:47] <r00t4rd3d> I need lighter
[22:20:01] <r00t4rd3d> the dewalt one might be pushing my limits
[22:20:02] <djdelorie> the PC7518 is rated at 3.25 HP but weighs even more than the 960
[22:20:48] <djdelorie> an air spindle is significantly lighter, but also less powerful
[22:21:00] <r00t4rd3d> makita makes a laminate router that looks small
[22:21:02] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#edge-finders/=h5x98t ReadError alex4nder
[22:21:11] <andypugh> I have one of these, which looks promising (note that that auction of for a job let of ten) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-MINI-Metal-12-0-Mega-USB-2-0-Digital-Video-Webcam-/150631987283
[22:21:41] <djdelorie> yeah, the 960 is 3x the weight of that dewalt...
[22:21:42] <andypugh> Seems easy to mount in a spindle once the clampy thing is off.
[22:22:05] <andypugh> But then, I might make a touch probe too
[22:22:28] <jdhnc> make me one!
[22:22:29] <andypugh> After I actually have the machine working, which will be after I have the current project working...
[22:22:42] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25ecodZ5yc1v/R-203298572/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=makita+router&storeId=10051
[22:22:42] <ReadError> scumbag a2z just shipped my stuff
[22:22:44] <jdhnc> going to make all the motors forit?
[22:22:45] <ReadError> *sigh*
[22:22:45] <r00t4rd3d> that is 6lbs
[22:23:45] <djdelorie> andypugh: found those in the USA ebay too, might order one once my paypal has more funds in it
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[22:26:59] <djdelorie> is there a market for small DIY touch probes?
[22:27:11] <djdelorie> or is a switch-on-a-stick good enough?
[22:27:26] <alex4nder> I'd buy one.
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[22:27:40] <djdelorie> yeah, but buy one *what* ?
[22:27:44] <djdelorie> and for how much?
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[22:27:50] <alex4nder> a probe that didn't suck
[22:28:00] <alex4nder> $50-$125
[22:28:02] <djdelorie> heh. Define "suck" now :-)
[22:28:03] <alex4nder> if it was high quality
[22:28:06] <alex4nder> any higher I'd make myself
[22:28:59] <andypugh> There is one, somewhere at that price. I wonder if I can find it?
[22:30:12] <andypugh> Ah, yes: http://www.wildhorse-innovations.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=80
[22:30:15] <andypugh> $119
[22:30:33] <alex4nder> yah, I was looking at one of those
[22:30:46] <alex4nder> but it's been out of stock for as long as I've been looking at it
[22:33:11] <alex4nder> it makes me want to buy/build a lathe.
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[22:36:01] <andypugh> It is possible to exist without a lathe, but I wouldn't call it "living"
[22:36:11] <alex4nder> haha
[22:37:18] <djdelorie> I have three lathes... not once has one of them offered to get me a snack. Living! Ha!
[22:38:03] <andypugh> You need to ask the right way: http://xkcd.com/149/
[22:38:44] <ReadError> the taig lathes too small?
[22:38:49] <ReadError> im not doing anything super big
[22:39:12] <alex4nder> it's got max a 6" swing
[22:39:14] <alex4nder> I think
[22:39:18] <alex4nder> so if that's big enough
[22:41:39] <ReadError> the vids where they cut threads are awesome
[22:41:50] <ReadError> but i seen i get get an attachment and do that on my mill
[22:42:56] <djdelorie> ReadError: I have a chinese 7x12 lathe, and it's *not* better than my big one. The little one's gibs/dovetails suck, so the toolholder moves, makes it useless for precision work.
[22:43:18] <djdelorie> heh. eventually I'll be able to make new ones, I suppose...
[22:43:25] <ReadError> how much was the chinamade one?
[22:43:37] <joe9> http://www.sherline.com/tips.htm helpful
[22:44:08] <djdelorie> "make a donation to the club if you want, but I never want to see this piece of crap again"
[22:44:25] <djdelorie> that much :)
[22:45:06] <djdelorie> it's basically a very older version of this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/7-x-12-Mini-Metal-Lathe/G8688
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[22:51:49] <joe9> the reviews say that "Brown & Sharpe" edge finders are the best.
[22:51:58] <joe9> not sure if that still stands. any experiences?
[22:52:07] <joe9> the price is approx the same.
[22:52:45] * djdelorie thought "brown & sharpe" was a taper size, not a company...
[22:52:55] <joe9> http://www.amazon.com/Brown-Sharpe-599-792-20-Audible-Diameter/dp/B0006J3DOA/ref=sr_1_6?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1334787513&sr=1-6
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[22:54:18] <joe9> http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-S828HZ-Wigglerand-Complete-Attachments/dp/B0006J4PIS/ref=sr_1_11?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1334787513&sr=1-11 seems tempting.
[22:54:53] <djdelorie> do you need "best" or just "good enough" ?
[22:55:20] <joe9> good enough.
[22:55:22] <pfred1> OMG did I patch this right?
[22:57:37] <pfred1> who says C++ is hard?
[22:57:57] <djdelorie> well-written C++ is easy. ANY poorly-written code is hard.
[22:58:17] <pfred1> OK then i make hard C++ because i don't know the first thing about it
[22:58:24] <joe9> do the "audible" edge finders help? any experiences using one vs a non-audible one?
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[22:58:43] <joe9> http://www.amazon.com/Brown-Sharpe-599-792-5-Finder-Diameter/dp/B0006J3D7M/ref=sr_1_9?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1334787513&sr=1-9 vs http://www.amazon.com/Brown-Sharpe-599-792-20-Audible-Diameter/dp/B0006J3DOA/ref=sr_1_6?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1334787513&sr=1-6
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[22:58:54] <joe9> i am debating between the above.
[22:59:03] <pfred1> is Brown and Sharp still in business?
[22:59:08] <joe9> the audible one does not have a center finder.
[22:59:35] <joe9> not sure if the "audible" feature helps or not.
[22:59:41] <pfred1> I thought their whole union falling out went rather poorly for them
[23:01:58] <djdelorie> joe9: are you sure you want a cone on the end, and not http://www.amazon.com/Brown-Sharpe-599-792-21-Audible-Diameter/dp/B0006J3DOU/ref=pd_sbs_indust_8 ?
[23:03:06] * pfred1 beats joe9 with a piece of heavy walled pipe for thinking about buying Brown and Sharp ...
[23:03:42] <djdelorie> joe9: START MAKING STUFF!
[23:03:49] <skunkworks__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U61ub6mtpH4
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[23:05:45] <alex4nder> pfred1: B&S markets perfectly fine stuff made by other people. ;)
[23:06:12] <pfred1> alex4nder yeah I thought they got bought out by an English holding company
[23:06:36] <alex4nder> pfred1: I own testa-made calipers and DTIs from thm
[23:06:58] <alex4nder> er tesa
[23:07:17] <pfred1> I was in a union machine shop while that was all going on
[23:08:03] <alex4nder> joe9 / ReadError: http://www.andern.org/alexander/images/taig/taig_milling_aluminum.m4v
[23:08:13] <alex4nder> apologies in advance for the shakeycam action
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[23:09:22] <joe9> pfred1: is it a bad idea to buy B&S? why do you say that?
[23:10:31] <djdelorie> alex4nder: how much horsepower and RPM in that cut?
[23:11:20] <pfred1> joe9 it doesn't matter today they're long gone
[23:11:20] <alex4nder> djdelorie: it's a "1/4 HP" motor.. running at ~3k
[23:11:35] <andypugh> djdelorie: I think my 9x20 is an Indian knock-off of a cheap Chinese lathe.
[23:11:55] <pfred1> andypugh nothing but the best!
[23:11:57] <djdelorie> hmmm... I could slow my router down to 3k, and it'd be about 1/4 hp too by that point.
[23:12:04] <joe9> pfred1: which edge finder do you recommend? do you recommend an audible vs edge/center finder?
[23:12:16] <djdelorie> chipload and cutter? I might try milling aluminum next :-)
[23:12:26] <djdelorie> joe9: why do you need an edge finder?
[23:12:36] <pfred1> joe9 I have a wobbler but I don't use it much
[23:12:38] <andypugh> pfred1: http://www.brownandsharpe.com/
[23:12:50] <pfred1> andypugh nice english company now
[23:12:57] <alex4nder> djdelorie: 4 flute 3/16" endmill.. the chip size is ~0.02"
[23:13:22] <alex4nder> and the DoC is .2"
[23:13:55] <joe9> djdelorie: it seems to be very helpful to align my workpiece if I change the position of the clamps.
[23:14:09] <djdelorie> do you *need* more precision than just eyeballing it?
[23:14:15] <alex4nder> joe9: you're like a parent with their first child
[23:14:16] <pfred1> you need a dial indicator for that
[23:14:23] <alex4nder> it's all organic baby wipes and microgreens
[23:14:32] <alex4nder> just turn on the spindle and start milling wood
[23:15:04] <djdelorie> agreed. Cut stuff, only buy more crap if you can't make it work with the crap you already have. Enjoy the baby for a while.
[23:15:08] <pfred1> joe9 I do use my dial indicator a lot
[23:16:15] <joe9> alex4nder: it looks like that. that is a very good analogy.
[23:16:26] <pfred1> I have a Horrible Fright $6.99 special it works great
[23:16:48] <alex4nder> joe9: you will break something, and you just have to shrug it off
[23:16:56] <alex4nder> you will mess up your fixturing, and ruin stock
[23:17:04] <alex4nder> you will snap endmills
[23:17:21] <alex4nder> you will start your program, and be so excited to see it move, that you forget to turn on your spindle
[23:17:24] <djdelorie> when I got my first lathe, I got a $32 set-of-eight cheap chinese steel tools to learn on. AFTER figuring it all out, THEN I started buying the $100 tools.
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[23:17:55] <pfred1> djdelorie you should have ground old files
[23:17:57] <joe9> pfred1: i have such a dial indicator too.
[23:18:05] <djdelorie> NEVER use old files for wood turning
[23:18:06] <pfred1> joe9 yeah they're fine
[23:18:20] <pfred1> djdelorie why not?
[23:18:24] <djdelorie> too brittle
[23:22:09] <alex4nder> djdelorie: you can tell at the beginning of the video that the chipload is much larger, and you get the disconcerting crunching noises
[23:22:22] <alex4nder> it's all about shaving the material
[23:22:46] <djdelorie> yup. "first cut" is always a little scary though
[23:23:06] <alex4nder> the spiral drop has a 1.5 cutter diameter
[23:23:18] <alex4nder> the rest is an explicit .02 step
[23:24:04] <djdelorie> 0.02 step in Z per pass? or XY step? Or shaving per flute?
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[23:24:30] <alex4nder> X-Y... the Z is done with the first 1.5x diameter spiral into the material
[23:24:50] <alex4nder> the rest is .2 depth
[23:25:10] <djdelorie> so each shaving is 0.02 wide, whatever tall, and how thin?
[23:25:21] * djdelorie thinks there's a horsepower-to-shavings ratio in there somewhere
[23:26:09] <pfred1> alex4nder your video makes me want to get a rotary table
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[23:37:12] <alex4nder> djdelorie: yah, the chips are ~.02 wide, .2 tall, and really thin
[23:37:20] <alex4nder> obviously dependent on feeds/speeds
[23:37:22] <djdelorie> XY feed rate?
[23:37:51] <alex4nder> 30 IPM
[23:38:37] <djdelorie> 2.5 thou per cut?
[23:39:30] <djdelorie> 3000/60 = 50 rotations/sec * 4 = 200 cuts/sec; 30 IPM = 0.5 IPS; 0.5 inch/sec / 200 cuts/sec = 0.0025 inch/cut
[23:39:52] <djdelorie> actually, thinner since it's not the whole cutter diameter
[23:40:01] <pfred1> I always use 2 flute endmills for aluminum
[23:40:51] <alex4nder> djdelorie: yup
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[23:41:08] <alex4nder> I grabbed a couple chips and measured between 2 and 4.5
[23:41:22] <alex4nder> but I did several projects in the same tub
[23:41:35] <alex4nder> with some feed override
[23:41:59] <alex4nder> pfred1: yah, this is some cheap shit chinese 4 flute HSS, and some no-spec aluminum I bought at Ace
[23:42:18] <djdelorie> I have max feed override at 2.0x as I have no idea what "works" in wood yet
[23:42:24] <pfred1> aluminum is like cutting foam
[23:42:37] <pfred1> I've machined tougher hard woods
[23:42:48] <alex4nder> yah, sort of.. although I broke an endmill in this aluminum the other day, while pushing the edge
[23:42:54] <djdelorie> gaboon ebony. it's like turning hard plastic instead of wood
[23:43:17] <alex4nder> endmills don't like gummy aluminum welding itself in 2 of the 4 flutes. :/
[23:43:23] <alex4nder> with no feedrate reduction
[23:43:57] <pfred1> yeah aluminum seems to like to have the room of 2 flute endmills
[23:44:14] <alex4nder> yah, I did some 7075 with a long 2 flute, and it worked well
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[23:44:55] <pfred1> even though you can machine it dry there are cutting lubes for it too
[23:45:09] <alex4nder> I spray my endmills whenever I do it now, for that reason
[23:45:30] <pfred1> yeah doesn't take much
[23:45:50] <pfred1> if nothing else you get a much better surface finish
[23:46:47] <pfred1> but likely your 4 flute is clogging on you a little
[23:48:28] <andypugh> I remember my first cuts on a lathe :-) I was 7, and had to stand on a tool box to reach the handles. I even remember the machine we were making, a cement mixer based on a beer keg.
[23:50:12] <pfred1> lathe work is so simple it is complicated
[23:51:09] <A0Sheds> andypugh: do you have a photo blog up somewhere of your last adventure?
[23:51:44] <andypugh> No. I didn't want to get the camera wet. And, to be honest, it was "just for me" if that makes sense?
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[23:51:56] <A0Sheds> sure, just interested
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[23:54:18] <andypugh> There is a whole bunch of blog posts from all the crews, including a few from me: http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/index.php/follow/crew-diaries/
[23:54:35] <A0Sheds> thanks
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[23:54:59] <pfred1> I'd sail around the world if the oceans were single malt whiskey
[23:55:06] <A0Sheds> anyone seen danimal lately?
[23:55:40] * pfred1 never develped much of a taste for salty water though ...
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[23:59:41] <andypugh> And the first one there is from my particular friend Nina, who also posted: http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/index.php/follow/crew-diaries?item=1181