#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-01

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[00:05:04] <Jordan__> yea you can't cast HDPE or UHMW
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[00:07:31] <Jymmm> I don't know about "cast", but you CAN mold inject HDPE.
[00:08:05] <Jordan__> i don't have mold injector
[00:09:00] <Jordan__> is there something i could cast that would be comparable to HDPE or UHMW
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[00:12:30] <Jymmm> ve7it: This looks like a better deal; more power, USB programming cable/sw included, and Rx down to 65MHz http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Version-UV-5R-Dual-Feq-UHF-VHF-Radio-DTMF-USB-Prog-Cable-software-CD-/220976649582?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33733c156e
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[00:44:01] <ve7it> Jymmm, YES... those look like a great deal
[00:44:21] <Jymmm> ve7it: http://UV-5R.com/
[00:44:50] <Jymmm> ve7it: I wonder if I could use one as a half-duplex repeater in an emergency?
[00:46:35] <Jymmm> ve7it: My TM-D700 I can use as a repeater less the CWID if I wanted to.
[00:46:55] <ve7it> oh an... I'm knackered.... just outside mixing wheelbarrows of concrete... building boat lift
[00:47:41] <Jymmm> ve7it: LOL, better you than me! I'd higher the neighbor kids to do that!
[00:49:39] <Jordan__> i want to tap some plastic for acme screw is it going to be high enough precision by hand tap?
[00:50:21] <Jymmm> be specific, plastic could be silly putty, they are all just polymers.
[00:50:52] <Jordan__> well UHME or HDPE or Acetal
[00:50:58] <Jordan__> UHMW*
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[00:54:55] <Jordan__> 230 for a tap?
[00:55:03] <Jordan__> i'll make my own
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[00:56:51] <Jymmm> Jordan__: I SERIOUSLY have no fucking idea why you are so set on using plastics, when real metal parts are not that much more expensive, but whatever... http://www.embeddedtronics.com/acmetap.html
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[01:13:16] <Nick001> ssi - are you around?
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[01:31:39] <ssi> Nick001: yeah
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[01:35:45] <Tecan> oops i missed my answer
[01:35:54] <Tecan> what would i put for driver microstepping if its 1/8 2 is half step
[01:36:16] <Jymmm> 8
[01:36:20] <Tecan> thanks
[01:36:30] <Tecan> you should see my hack job on the laser cutter
[01:36:37] <Tecan> 2x4's and osb
[01:36:41] <Jymmm> pic?
[01:36:47] <Tecan> comming in a bit
[01:36:57] <Jymmm> I'd have done MDF instead
[01:37:04] <Tecan> brb i'll take on on the phone
[01:37:08] <Jymmm> k
[01:38:36] <Nick001> is the spidle still stopping?
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[01:38:44] <Nick001> spindle
[01:38:51] <ssi> Nick001: yeah
[01:39:09] <ssi> Nick001: I'm assuming you mean on toolchange; what I asked about earlier
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[01:39:25] <Nick001> do you have manual change lines in a hal or load file?
[01:39:35] <ssi> I have stuff set up for the turret
[01:39:45] <Nick001> plc?
[01:40:05] <ssi> yeah
[01:40:09] <ssi> I cribbed it from JT
[01:40:14] <ssi> I don't actually understand classicladder yet :)
[01:40:19] <Nick001> me too
[01:40:19] <ssi> but the toolchange itself works great
[01:40:23] <ssi> it just stops the spindle
[01:40:43] <Tecan> here it comes lol
[01:40:50] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/fmHHP.jpg
[01:40:55] <Nick001> mine skips because I need a dwell on the stop selenoid
[01:41:55] <Jymmm> Tecan: That's not OSB, that's melamine but the pic is fuzzy.
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[01:42:10] <ssi> yea looks like melamine to me too
[01:42:11] <Nick001> when you open emc, does a window comes up about tool changong and then disappears
[01:42:17] <ssi> Nick001: don't think so
[01:42:24] <ssi> Nick001: my little lathe with manual toolchange does that
[01:42:33] <Tecan> nothing is measured lol
[01:42:53] <Jymmm> Tecan: You could have gone with angled aluminum instead of the 2x4's though =)
[01:42:55] <Tecan> its level tho
[01:42:59] <Nick001> but how about the hardinge?
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[01:43:15] <ssi> Nick001: the hardinge does not have the popup
[01:44:10] <Nick001> I had to eliminate those lines to get the spindle to keep running
[01:44:46] <ssi> I commented out all the stock lines about manual toolchange
[01:45:56] <Nick001> then someting's still in there causing it - rebooted the computer?
[01:46:16] <ssi> haha haven't tried that particular tactic
[01:46:26] <ssi> it's likely been rebooted since the toolchange was setup thought
[01:47:08] <Nick001> I would think so unless you just leave it on -)
[01:47:32] <ssi> right now I do leave it on, but I setup toolchanging before I righted the control cabinet, and it definitely came down for that
[01:48:10] <Nick001> maybe duplicate lines in another file the emc is looking at
[01:48:29] <ssi> which lines
[01:49:27] <Nick001> don't remember - not at the shop right now
[01:49:52] <Nick001> does a box come up when the spindle stops?
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[01:50:09] <ssi> no
[01:51:04] <Nick001> is that the exact line? TOOLCHANGE_WITH_SPINDLE_ON = 1
[01:51:30] <ssi> TOOLCHANGE_WITH_SPINDLE_ON = 1
[01:51:34] <ssi> copied and pasted
[01:51:41] <ssi> I'm reading through the wiki article on toolchanging now
[01:52:01] <Nick001> try it without the spaces around =
[01:52:31] <ssi> there's no way that can be the problem, everything else in the ini has spaces
[01:52:34] <Nick001> and macke sure about caps and such
[01:52:42] <Nick001> make
[01:52:46] <ssi> I'm trying to find documentation about that particular feature, and I can't find it
[01:52:58] <ssi> also I had a RANDOM_TOOLCHANGER = 1 in there, but I think that's wrong
[01:52:59] <Nick001> thats always
[01:53:01] <ssi> it's not a random toolchanger
[01:53:11] <ssi> so I commented that out thinking that might fix it, and it didn't
[01:53:15] <ssi> might need to add it back but set it to 0
[01:54:27] <Tecan> i have some micro switches here but i think their backwards
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[01:54:39] <Nick001> are you using 2.3?
[01:54:42] <ssi> 2.5
[01:54:42] <Tecan> can either version be used ?
[01:54:46] <Nick001> 2.5
[01:54:55] <ssi> need to be on 2.5 for the resolver stuff
[01:54:59] <Tecan> push for off let go for on
[01:55:05] <Nick001> Ok - looking it up
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[01:55:19] <Tecan> wait no the other way around
[01:55:28] <Tecan> push for on let go for off like a fridge door
[01:55:37] <ssi> you want Normally Closed for limit switches or anything in the estop chain
[01:55:43] <ssi> which is "pussh for off"
[01:55:53] <Tecan> yeah
[01:56:02] <Tecan> confused myself
[01:56:07] <Tecan> those are the ones you want ?
[01:56:33] <Tecan> to connect to the unused io pins like pin 10
[01:57:07] <Tecan> can be inverted so either will work good ?
[01:57:23] <Tecan> i just dont want to fry my printer port
[01:57:45] <ssi> optoisolated breakout boards are your friend :)
[02:00:32] <Tecan> will a printer port like 24 volts ?
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[02:00:42] <ssi> prorably not
[02:00:50] <Tecan> 0-5 then i guess
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[02:01:44] <Nick001> <ssi> Try TOOL_CHANGE_WITH_SPINDLE_ON = 1 this is whats in my ini file. Found it on my stick
[02:02:01] <Nick001> TOOL_CHANGE_WITH_SPINDLE_ON = 1
[02:02:04] <ssi> interesting
[02:02:26] <ssi> ok I'll try that
[02:02:27] <ssi> one sec
[02:04:48] <ssi> Nick001: that did it thanks :)
[02:05:07] <Tecan> if i leave 5 volts on pin 10 of my board will it hurt anything ?
[02:05:43] <Nick001> -)
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[02:09:52] <Tecan> high is suposed to be off right ?
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[02:16:10] <Tecan> oh i see its already 5 v its active low
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[02:23:37] <Jymmm> Anyone need a PCB spindle? http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14002557-12v_small_pcb_drill_press_drilling_with_08mm_drill.html
[02:24:27] <djdelorie> that's a huge drill bit for PCBs...
[02:24:55] <djdelorie> well, *my* pcbs...
[02:24:58] <Jymmm> huge motor too
[02:25:40] <djdelorie> I've yet to test my 1/8" air spindle with actually drilling PCBs though
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[02:26:41] <Jymmm> GIT ER DONE!
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[02:27:47] * djdelorie can only do twelve things at a time...
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[02:28:28] <Jymmm> djdelorie: then stop looking at pr0n and you'll have a slot available.
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[02:28:54] <djdelorie> I spent the last two days working on restoring a 1922 South Bend lathe, and adding a USB interface to my oscilloscope
[02:29:21] <Jymmm> well, ARE YA DONE YET?
[02:29:26] <djdelorie> never!
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[02:33:52] <djdelorie> hey - anyone know of a converter from excellon drill format to linuxCNC format? They're both "g-code" but not the same
[02:34:22] <djdelorie> (if not, I'll probably write a perl script or something)
[02:34:27] <djdelorie> (eventually ;)
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[02:36:52] <CareBear\> dj : how flexible is pcb on the output?
[02:37:08] <djdelorie> it's C source, it can do pretty much anything if you don't mind a recompile, or a plugin
[02:37:17] <CareBear\> this I know
[02:37:39] <CareBear\> I'm thinking convenient data structures internally
[02:37:43] <djdelorie> the actual gerber drill file has no options, though, it's always the same
[02:38:09] <djdelorie> if you're writing a plugin, just use the ALLPIN_LOOP macro
[02:38:24] <CareBear\> and xy are right there?
[02:38:25] <djdelorie> er, then VIA_LOOP
[02:38:31] <djdelorie> yup
[02:38:37] <CareBear\> too easy
[02:38:58] <djdelorie> yeah, *that* part is easy. Deciding how you want to interact with the machine, especially for tool changes, is harder
[02:39:23] <CareBear\> sure
[02:39:35] <djdelorie> I was hoping someone already worked out the details
[02:40:09] <CareBear\> I wrote a program to generate robot arm control programs from nc files
[02:41:00] <CareBear\> fun and all, but not much more
[02:41:31] <djdelorie> I'll probably have to have the machine carve a vacuum hold-down jig, too
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[02:43:09] <Tecan> im getting RTAPI ERROR message only displayed once per session
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[02:43:18] <Tecan> was it because i updated ubuntu ?
[02:44:51] <ssi> well shit
[02:44:57] <ssi> hardinge is out of commission for awhile :(
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[02:55:29] <Tecan> what are some good numbers for hal latency test ? im getting 5886 on servo thread and 13281 on base thread max jitter
[02:56:31] <Nick001> put the screwdriver away -(
[02:56:45] <ssi> Nick001: broke a resolver coupling :(
[02:56:45] <Tecan> ouch it jumped up to 25551 and 30990
[02:57:24] <Tecan> oh i see you have to put those numbers into the config
[02:57:29] <ssi> can't wait to find out how much this is going to cost me
[02:57:32] <Nick001> ouch - but's that's a little hard to do
[02:57:49] <ssi> I'm not entirely sure what causes it
[02:57:53] <ssi> but I suspect high accel
[02:58:11] <ssi> I was working on tuning, and I added a little bit of D term, and I think it accelerated really hard and broke the coupling
[02:58:19] <ssi> the little nickel bellows type coupling
[02:58:20] <Nick001> i thought you were at 180'
[02:58:25] <ssi> I am at 180
[02:58:43] <ssi> but if it oscillates really hard, there can be some pretty high accelerations
[02:59:04] <Nick001> would accel go over 180 '
[02:59:22] <ssi> doesn't have to
[02:59:44] <Nick001> those things are kindof tuff little guys till you put pliers to them
[03:00:12] <ssi> I found a similar part on mcmaster, and it's rated 6.1 in-lbs peak torque
[03:01:43] <Nick001> stil might be cheaper than Hardinge - If enough diff - worth a try
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[03:01:50] <ssi> mcmaster part is $70
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[03:02:01] <ssi> just emailed my contact at Morris about the hardinge part
[03:02:05] <Nick001> wow
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[03:02:27] <ssi> yeah, $70 isn't really "worth a try" unless the hardinge part is >$200
[03:02:32] <Nick001> of course happens on the weekend
[03:02:35] <ssi> of course
[03:02:53] <ssi> heh I could solder this one back together :P
[03:03:00] <Nick001> 200 may be a lowball for hardinge
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[03:03:28] <Nick001> did it breake at the collar?
[03:03:32] <ssi> yeah
[03:03:53] <ssi> hang on, pic incoming
[03:04:03] <Nick001> than you may well be able to silver solder it back
[03:04:12] <77CAAO2KB> Theoretically there should not be any D term on the control loop of a velocity mode drive
[03:04:12] <ssi> https://p.twimg.com/ApXTsDKCIAAMNpf.jpg:large
[03:04:39] <ssi> 77CAAO2KB: I probably won't try it again :)
[03:05:00] <ssi> 77CAAO2KB: I get a pretty significant swing in error at the start and end of each move... was trying to get rid of it
[03:05:59] 77CAAO2KB is now known as XXPCWXX
[03:05:59] <ssi> now I'm pretty mad at myself... likely shut myself down for a week :(
[03:06:11] <Nick001> start filing -) you might be able to do that
[03:06:46] <ssi> ohai PCW, that explains how you knew it was a velocity drive :D
[03:07:24] <ssi> Nick001: the guy that sold me the machine gave me a broken coupler and warned me about them
[03:07:33] <ssi> as soon as the axis went wonky I had a pretty strong suspicion that's what it was
[03:07:42] <ssi> in a way, I'm glad it's the coupler, cause I'd have NO clue what to do otherwise
[03:07:43] <XXPCWXX> Yeah this machine suspends and eats nicks
[03:08:06] <ssi> oh PCW btw, I had a look at my resolver while I had it apart removing the broken coupler
[03:08:16] <ssi> mine definitely also says 12V in, 6V out
[03:08:19] <ssi> same text that's on Nick's
[03:08:42] <XXPCWXX> Did you try 5 or 2.5 KHz?
[03:08:47] <ssi> yeah tried both
[03:08:48] <ssi> same results
[03:08:57] <ssi> 3V rms measured on each return pair
[03:09:41] <XXPCWXX> well thats pretty darn mysterious
[03:09:45] <ssi> isn't it though
[03:10:01] <XXPCWXX> and ~9V P-P on the scope?
[03:10:06] <ssi> yep
[03:10:51] <XXPCWXX> (dont trust meters above 60 Hz unless they are designed for that)
[03:11:05] <ssi> haven't used anything but a tek TDS420
[03:11:20] <ssi> and it'll measure and display waveform RMS onscreen
[03:11:24] <ssi> (or p-p)
[03:11:42] <XXPCWXX> no x10 probe errors?
[03:11:53] <ssi> don't think so!
[03:12:04] <XXPCWXX> weird
[03:12:30] <ssi> well at least I'll be able to try out the HV card when it comes
[03:12:43] <ssi> won't be able to actually run the machine, but I can at least get my spindle feedback working
[03:13:05] <XXPCWXX> you can measure the P-P on each of the drive lines and double to get the RMS in
[03:13:15] <ssi> yeah I've done that as well
[03:13:17] <ssi> it's 2Vrms in
[03:13:38] <ssi> I even got fancy and scoped the two drive phases independently and had the scope subtract them :)
[03:13:45] <XXPCWXX> so ~1.5X
[03:14:04] <ssi> yeah I suppose so
[03:14:39] <ssi> I can't imagine why that doesn't match the nameplate
[03:15:37] <XXPCWXX> any difference at all with the different drive frequencies?
[03:15:40] <ssi> none
[03:15:46] <ssi> just a different frequency waveform back
[03:16:06] <ssi> should I be running them at 2400 cause the nameplate says so?
[03:16:12] <ssi> or is there an advantage to the higher freq
[03:16:43] <XXPCWXX> you lose a little phase margin at the lower frequencies so I would leave it at 9600 Hz
[03:17:31] <ssi> ok
[03:17:36] <XXPCWXX> (because the resolver interface only updates the tracking filter at the carrier rate)
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[03:22:46] <XXPCWXX> does the spike when you start motion last for the entire accel phase?
[03:22:57] <XXPCWXX> (error spike)
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[03:47:12] <ssi> XXPCWXX: yeah I think I have error during accel and decel, but not during steady state velocity
[03:47:31] <ssi> Nick001: I was able to silver solder the coupler back together... I think it'll work alright until I can get a new one
[03:47:37] <ssi> however I'm not going to try to reinstall it
[03:47:50] <ssi> I'm going to take Peter's advice tonight and not force it when I'm tired :)
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[03:48:28] <ssi> not going to try to reinstall it TONIGHT, that is
[03:50:14] <Nick001> take it easy on that acceleration - I forgot about the gears -
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[03:50:43] <Nick001> that can be quite a windup at 5-1 ratio
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[03:51:39] <Nick001> does this card problem affect the axis positions?
[03:51:56] <ssi> it manifests as noise on the position feedback
[03:52:15] <ssi> and I'm assuming the gears you're talking about are the gears between the screw and the resolver/tach
[03:52:33] <ssi> and the coupler is on the screw side of that reduction, so the coupler sees screw torque at 1:1
[03:52:52] <ssi> (there's also a timing pulley reduction between the servo and the screw)
[03:53:42] <Nick001> the coupling connects the leadscrew to 140t gear and that drives 2 28t gears
[03:54:11] <ssi> right
[03:54:40] <ssi> so there's the inertia of the resolver and tach multiplied by five, and that's the torque load on that coupler
[03:55:59] <Nick001> yes - if you turn it by hand - you'll feel a heavy start and then it lightins up after it gets going
[03:56:21] <ssi> sure
[03:57:26] <Nick001> while its open - now would be a good time to put some moly oil on the gears
[03:57:46] <ssi> anything in particular?
[03:58:13] <Nick001> black slimy stuff in a small bottle -)
[03:58:24] <ssi> how about lubriplate?
[03:58:44] <ssi> we use that on airplanes in lots of areas
[03:58:52] <ssi> like the trim jackscrew drums
[03:58:58] <ssi> cause it stays put forever :)
[03:59:27] <Nick001> it's a black moly oil don't know how to spell it - it's late
[04:00:13] <Nick001> and very light - those 80 dp gearswon't work in anything heavy
[04:00:53] <ssi> might check the bike shop, they usually have good lubricants
[04:00:57] <ssi> that's where I buy triflow for instance
[04:03:34] <ssi> also, since I had the resolver/tach carrier out to remove that coupler
[04:03:41] <ssi> I believe I've lost my home position
[04:03:55] <ssi> I'll have to re-reference everything
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[04:04:59] <Nick001> your just using the switches and lost the index position
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[04:05:13] <ssi> prox switch moved, index position moved
[04:05:47] <Nick001> sounds like you put it back in
[04:05:57] <ssi> I did, without the coupler
[04:06:06] <ssi> I just didn't want it all hanging out getting full of oil
[04:06:42] <Nick001> no index on the resolver?
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[04:07:20] <Nick001> which axis broke?
[04:07:42] <ssi> well the resolver driver generates an index, and the fact that the resolver will be in a different relationship to the screw when it all goes back together means that index will be in some arbitrary position
[04:07:46] <ssi> X
[04:08:01] <ssi> I'm not too worried about it... my home location was arbitrary to begin with
[04:08:17] <ssi> I don't have a really good way to absolutely reference X to the spindle
[04:08:37] <ssi> and each tool slides in its Tslot anyway, so it doesn't really matter all that much
[04:08:52] <ssi> I'm trying to get the lines on the turret aligned with the spindle centerline at machine X=0, but I can't do that with any precision
[04:09:12] <Tecan> mounting motors is harder than i thought
[04:09:15] <Nick001> hardinge had an alignment routine to do that -
[04:09:46] <Nick001> but you turn the resolver unit to do it
[04:10:58] <Nick001> same with z to put the turret face a certain distance from the spindle face
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[04:10:59] <ssi> Nick001: yeah I know... I need to read through the maintenance manual again and read about their method
[04:11:04] <ssi> ive just been winging it so far
[04:11:28] <ssi> yeah the Z procedure involves setting it up to be 10.0000" from turret face to spindle face
[04:11:43] <ssi> I don't have a good way to measure 10.0000" :)
[04:13:29] <Nick001> i think 0.500 jo block to spindle nose and set it. dosent matter in emc as the offsets are from home position
[04:13:36] <ssi> right
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[04:13:41] <ssi> that's probably what I'll end up doing
[04:14:09] <ssi> btw I have ~0.004" measured backlash in my Z travel
[04:14:17] <Nick001> thats how I've run my first parts and it worked out
[04:14:20] <ssi> measured with a .0005 indicator
[04:14:36] <Nick001> ??
[04:14:47] <Nick001> oh ok
[04:14:50] <ssi> might be related to resolver noise
[04:15:03] <ssi> so I'm not going to compensate it until I get that sorted out
[04:15:15] <Nick001> just do your programing all in one direction
[04:15:25] <ssi> I don't want that limitation :)
[04:15:32] <ssi> backlash compensation in emc works reasonably well
[04:16:18] <Nick001> most turning operations are in the - direction
[04:16:23] <ssi> most
[04:16:26] <ssi> but not all :D
[04:17:27] <Nick001> when backwards turning you go in the + direction with that particular tool
[04:17:38] <ssi> yes
[04:17:42] <ssi> so maybe the backlash won't even matter
[04:17:47] <ssi> and at any rate, it's a small amount
[04:17:49] <ssi> X seems to have none
[04:17:52] <Nick001> and thats really rare situation
[04:18:27] <Nick001> thats beacuse z takes most of the heavy cuts over the years
[04:20:43] <Nick001> also - the end bearings may be wearing
[04:21:53] <ssi> possibly
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[04:31:19] <Nick001> vidio of a part http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EroZ4KtKTp4
[04:34:35] <ssi> what're you making?
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[04:36:07] <ssi> I like your comparator
[04:39:15] <Nick001> take the guessing out of tenths
[04:39:22] <ssi> yeah definitely :)
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[04:41:53] <Nick001> making a journal type of part with a timing belt pulley - all 1 piece - next vid will show 6mm dia x 1.5 long with 0.0005 tolerance and I hold it within 0.0002
[04:42:26] <Nick001> I even have the oil working
[04:42:43] <ssi> what oil are you using
[04:43:06] <Nick001> omicrom from Mobil
[04:43:23] <Nick001> I use it for gearcutting also
[04:43:38] <ssi> omicron eh
[04:43:42] <ssi> I'm using mobilmet 766
[04:44:04] <ssi> ah omicron is 426, eh
[04:44:16] <ssi> I have a gallon of that that I use out of an oil can for manual work
[04:44:21] <ssi> the 766 is a little heavier and sulfurier
[04:44:41] <Nick001> don't know - just buy it a drum or 2 at a time
[04:44:49] <ssi> 5gal or 55gal?
[04:44:55] <Nick001> 55
[04:45:03] <ssi> it's like a thousand dollars for a drum, yeah?
[04:45:31] <Nick001> bout that - but it works
[04:45:34] <ssi> yea
[04:45:47] <ssi> the 766 that I bought I got from enco for $70/5gal
[04:45:50] <ssi> pretty reasonable
[04:46:09] <frysteev_> ssi: lazzor is hoisted
[04:46:15] <ssi> frysteev_: GUD
[04:46:17] <ssi> pics?
[04:46:19] <Nick001> I stay away from sulfur - stains the machine and smells bad
[04:46:29] <frysteev_> yes, but they are still in the camera
[04:46:40] <frysteev_> im tired spent all day installing an rfid door system
[04:46:43] <ssi> machine's already stained :)
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[04:49:29] <Nick001> true - but just don't like the smell - worked with it as a kid along with lard oil - smoked it with heavy cuts on the turret lathes
[04:49:55] <frysteev_> ssi: thats cuz you made luz to it
[04:50:01] <ssi> orite
[04:50:10] <Nick001> and don't want to go back to THAT
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[05:17:51] <Tecan> that took way too long
[05:18:07] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/0cgho.jpg
[05:18:17] <Tecan> got er mounted tho
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[05:44:41] <Tecan> ahhh, 2 more down now just the laser left..... this might really suck
[05:45:00] <Tecan> frysteev_ do you know if i put stuff on the laser tube it'll melt ?
[05:45:14] <Tecan> does the tube usually get hot even though its water cooled ?
[05:45:44] <frysteev_> it gets decent hot
[05:46:03] <Tecan> shit fantastic plastic wont work then
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[05:48:05] <djdelorie> it shouldn't be hotter than the boiling point of water...
[05:48:23] <frysteev_> then it would be steam
[05:48:45] <djdelorie> ah, the old "steam-cooled laser" :-)
[05:50:23] <djdelorie> a fitting start for April 1st ;-)
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[05:55:16] <ssi> heheh
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[06:41:12] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:19:56] <raynerd> hello...anyone about. I`ve got some m542 drivers which I believe are opto-isolated in the driver themselfs. Do I really need a dedicated BOB? I have an LPT quick connector, ie. just a parallel direct break out, could I connect the drivers directly to that?
[08:20:35] <raynerd> what are the risks?
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[08:28:10] <raynerd> I`m not still not clear what "extra" a BOB gives me over a standard LPT quick connector like this: http://www.routoutcnc.com/lptcon.html
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[08:38:44] <archivist> raynerd, I use an extra board to allow me to buffer the signals and give sufficient current to the opto diode
[08:39:02] <archivist> I have a similar stepper drivers
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[08:41:04] <CareBear\> yes, the parallel port does not drive optocouplers very well
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[08:41:32] <archivist> a bit of vero and some 7414 on one machine and uln2004 on the other
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[08:42:52] <raynerd> hello...sorry. archivist, you still about? I don`t really understand what you mean. In theory could I at least attempt it today to see if my issue does lie with my TB6560? then again, I`m not ignoring your adviuce if this is not going to work or is dangerous!
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[08:45:33] <CareBear\> it's not dangerous, it just will not work
[08:45:36] <raynerd> carebear - I don`t really know what "drive opto-couplers" means, when you say not very well..do you mean I could attempt it and it should work but ideally need a BOB? or is it not worth trying?
[08:45:39] <CareBear\> the parallel port has shitty drivers
[08:45:49] <raynerd> ahh ok :-(
[08:45:50] <CareBear\> the port does not supply very much current
[08:46:15] <CareBear\> optocouplers prefer a fairly high current in order to switch on fast and well
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[08:47:19] <raynerd> I see...so for my thick head...the parallel port doesn`t give out a strong enough signal, so this word "buffer" I take it that means the BOB boosts the signal to drive these?
[08:47:37] <archivist> you need about 10ma for the opto and the parallel port is ttl out
[08:47:56] <raynerd> ahh :(
[08:48:22] <raynerd> I guess if I knew what I was doing, I could some how use the "BOB" part of the TB6560 and feed it to my new driver?
[08:48:40] <raynerd> but I don`t know what I`m doing enough so don`t know why I even mentioned it.
[08:48:42] <CareBear\> BOB and TB6560 doesn't mean anything to me :\
[08:48:53] <raynerd> breakout board??
[08:49:15] <raynerd> TB6560 - cheapo chinese 3 axis controller with integrated BOB (breakout board)
[08:49:28] <CareBear\> but yes, the right buffer chip would have stronger drivers than the LPT itself
[08:50:26] <CareBear\> PWM Chopper-Type Bipolar Driver IC for Stepping Motor Control
[08:50:27] <CareBear\> ?
[08:50:43] <CareBear\> toshiba
[08:50:44] <raynerd> so do I need something like this...http://www.diycnc.co.uk/uniportV2.pdf I`m UK and this is an hours drive away so I could collect tomorrow..
[08:52:11] <CareBear\> tell Roy cheers for using gEDA
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[08:53:01] <archivist> raynerd, yup that looks ok
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[08:53:19] <CareBear\> all you *really* need is one chip and a 5V power supply
[08:53:33] <CareBear\> but depending on DIY desire may prefer to buy that uniport
[08:53:52] <raynerd> I have a 5v supply... what chip?
[08:54:00] <archivist> and something to mount on...which is what that board is basicly
[08:55:04] <raynerd> you see this is what I was saying before. I have one of these: TB6560: http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=617&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsfd&tbnid=e9yUXx8rVoKnKM:&imgrefurl=http://reprap.org/wiki/4_Axis_TB6560_CNC_Stepper_Motor_Driver_Board_Controller&docid=ohia-xeZpMSKvM&imgurl=http://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/e/e9/TB6560.jpg&w=700&h=502&ei=zRd4T9PKBuLK0QW0xuyfDQ&zoom=1&iact
[08:55:04] <raynerd> =rc&dur=125&sig=107705087645064034893&page=1&tbnh=123&tbnw=172&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&tx=79&ty=54
[08:55:44] <CareBear\> oh
[08:55:49] <CareBear\> it already has an LPT interface
[08:55:54] <raynerd> It has the parallel going straight to it so I presume it must be doing what is needed!! but then taking the signal to the inbuilt drivers. I guess if I knew what I was doing, I could pull the signal from this !!
[08:55:55] <raynerd> yes!
[08:55:55] <CareBear\> but you don't want to use this?
[08:56:57] <raynerd> It is terrible!! I mean terrible. Read the reviews online, they are shocking and I`m almost 100% sure my problems are coming from this
[08:57:10] <CareBear\> ok
[08:57:20] <CareBear\> Toshiba usually don't do crappy chips, but ok
[08:57:27] <CareBear\> the board might be a bad implementation of it
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[09:01:08] <raynerd> I can obviously read, but when I do read the literature for these breakout boards like the one I linked from cncdiy above, I don`t really see what I am buying for £40-60! So ok, you have said I`m buying a board that will applifiy the signal going to the opto-isolators, what else am I paying all that money for?
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[09:01:30] <raynerd> ohh yea, I can see that the inputs have a pullup resistor connected...
[09:01:35] <archivist> the pcb and profit
[09:01:42] <raynerd> some mention about a relay
[09:01:59] <raynerd> actually, I don`t even think that the one above does!!
[09:02:28] <CareBear\> there's a fair bit of components on that uniport board
[09:02:51] <CareBear\> since it's clearly manufactured in small quantity, 40-50£ is about what I would expect
[09:03:02] <CareBear\> of course there's absolutely nothing spectacular on it
[09:03:09] <raynerd> OK..is it therefore worth me going one step more and getting this: http://www.diycnc.co.uk/html/oppb.html
[09:04:01] <archivist> some vero and a ULN2002 and a few resistors :)
[09:04:16] <CareBear\> you can certainly DIY an equivalent on a shoestring budget
[09:04:56] <raynerd> on the more expensive one, I dont get the voltage in part...what can that do?
[09:05:00] <CareBear\> but without at least a little bit of electronics experience it will quickly get frustrating - and buying that £57 board gets you a nice package which is known working
[09:05:26] <CareBear\> frustrating if everything doesn't work immediately - and they never do
[09:05:34] <archivist> the first board you linked gets its 5v from the usb
[09:06:10] <CareBear\> that's not a very good power supply however
[09:06:39] <CareBear\> this second one needs a 15-70V supply it seems
[09:06:51] <archivist> no, but probably ok for the opto driver
[09:06:56] <raynerd> so it takes its 5v supply from the 15-70v in?
[09:07:04] <CareBear\> raynerd : yep
[09:07:15] <CareBear\> archivist : technically not, unless there is a device which enumerates
[09:07:24] <raynerd> I presume you then take your supply from the board to the driver - rather than direct to the driver?
[09:07:46] <raynerd> to be honest, I`ve got a nice clean 5v signal available from my ATX converted supply for my spindle.
[09:07:59] <archivist> II keep the 5v separate because its on the computer side of the opto
[09:08:29] <archivist> you will lose the isolation if not careful
[09:08:46] <CareBear\> oh. 5V & 12V spare power output rails (100mA max)
[09:08:50] <CareBear\> can't drive anything with that
[09:08:57] <CareBear\> so yes you need a separate power supply either way
[09:09:11] <raynerd> the second one mentions the two 10A control relays... last question because I do appreciate you have given me a lot of advice. I don`t really understand what a relay would be used for?
[09:09:28] <CareBear\> very high power switching
[09:09:35] <CareBear\> but it is a mechanical switch
[09:09:51] <CareBear\> which is sometimes quite problematic
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[09:09:58] <CareBear\> mechanical switches always have bounce
[09:10:12] <CareBear\> it's not a perfect off->on and on->off transition
[09:10:57] <archivist> you may use the relay to switch mains to the motor psu for example
[09:11:02] <raynerd> actually, the cheaper UNIPORT has 2 x 16A relays. So does this mean I can use it to turn on my spindle when I get my head around how it`ll work?
[09:11:15] <raynerd> excellent.
[09:11:27] <archivist> if within ratings yes
[09:11:42] <CareBear\> maybe not for the spindle.. depends on how you want to control it
[09:11:56] <raynerd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ3BzL82qNg brushless is working well but don`t really understand it.
[09:11:56] <CareBear\> being mechanical and with the bounce the relays are also slow
[09:12:29] <CareBear\> and if they are made to work too fast, or even just slowly with the bounce, there may be arcing between the contacts inside the relay, ultimately burning the contacts down
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[09:17:46] <raynerd> do you mind if I ask...years ago when I purchased the LTP quick connect, that is what routoutcnc company sent me to run with their drivers. Why didn`t I need a buffer to improve the signal there?
[09:19:10] <CareBear\> what did it connect to?
[09:19:30] <raynerd> on sec.
[09:19:51] <raynerd> http://www.routoutcnc.com/lpkits.html
[09:19:59] <CareBear\> maybe what it connected to wasn't optically isolated, or maybe it included buffers already
[09:20:27] <raynerd> infact, if you look at the top image, it shows three drivers with the quick connector
[09:20:41] <CareBear\> sorry, pictures are not detailed enough to tell what's going on
[09:21:10] <CareBear\> would need a high resolution photo
[09:21:10] <raynerd> http://www.routoutcnc.com/singlesmall.html
[09:21:19] <raynerd> ok that link is the driver: http://www.routoutcnc.com/singlesmall.html
[09:21:35] <raynerd> and then he is selling the quick connect that I currently have, to run directly those drivers.
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[09:21:57] <raynerd> I presume they are not opto-isolated, but then surely it is a dangerous system to run??
[09:22:13] <raynerd> http://www.routoutcnc.com/lptcon.html
[09:22:13] <CareBear\> * Opto-Isolated step and direction inputs
[09:22:36] <CareBear\> can't tell from the photo
[09:22:47] <raynerd> humm, well that is wierd.
[09:22:47] <CareBear\> can you take a better one of your board?
[09:22:59] <CareBear\> the TB6560 board doesn't look bad
[09:23:24] <CareBear\> what problems did you have with it?
[09:23:29] <raynerd> I can, but it is really simple...there is literally nothing on it. The parallel port comes in and puts each connection to a terminal!
[09:23:33] <raynerd> screw terminal.
[09:23:40] <CareBear\> ok, so no buffers there
[09:23:41] <raynerd> no ICs or anything
[09:24:09] <CareBear\> well, a few optocouplers are more sensitive, but they are rare and usually way expensive
[09:24:22] <raynerd> humm, ok.
[09:24:35] <CareBear\> what problem did you have with the TB?
[09:25:05] <raynerd> all sorts. currently my issue is that the axis seem to be running out of sync
[09:25:22] <raynerd> say I draw to concentric circles, they will end up overlapping with little flats on them
[09:26:05] <CareBear\> is there any feedback
[09:26:06] <CareBear\> ?
[09:26:14] <raynerd> feedback ??
[09:26:20] <CareBear\> heh
[09:26:59] <raynerd> sorry, what do you mean
[09:27:01] <CareBear\> if not, I'd suggest there is a problem between software and the TB, not between TB and material
[09:27:15] <raynerd> how do you mean..feedback?
[09:27:30] <CareBear\> a way for the software to know the exact position of each axis
[09:28:04] <raynerd> also, the motors sound quite noisy and when stationary they make wierd screeching noises.
[09:28:13] <raynerd> no..no feedback
[09:28:30] <CareBear\> what motors are those?
[09:28:46] <raynerd> one second..let me go down with the machine
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[09:28:56] <CareBear\> and what power supply are you using?
[09:29:18] <raynerd> 24v two atx in series
[09:29:51] <CareBear\> is that a common setup?
[09:30:38] <raynerd> if you read the forums.. these boards tend to go pop above 24v despite their rating well above that
[09:30:58] <CareBear\> I'm sorry, I'm allergic to forums
[09:31:04] <CareBear\> I was more thinking of the two ATX in series
[09:31:57] <raynerd> is it a common settup - I have read that it can be done and it works well for some poeple as a cheap power supply
[09:32:04] <CareBear\> cool
[09:32:18] <raynerd> I`m with the machine now
[09:32:34] <CareBear\> motors are?
[09:32:47] <raynerd> motors are sanyo denki - nice motors. 2A, 1.8deg
[09:34:02] <CareBear\> stepsyn type 103H7126-0440 ?
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[09:34:21] <raynerd> I have stepping set to 1/2 step, but with 2mm lead screw, this is only 200 steps per mm. Is this accurate enough?
[09:34:42] <raynerd> type: 103H7126 - 5010
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[09:35:14] <raynerd> I have struggled to find anything for my 5010, only info for the 0440 as you suggested... I think maybe the only difference is that they are double ended??
[09:35:39] <CareBear\> no
[09:35:45] <CareBear\> it has bipolar winding and two shafts
[09:35:53] <raynerd> ahhh.
[09:36:11] <raynerd> could I have me motors wired wrong...or would they just not be turning?
[09:36:27] <raynerd> my**
[09:38:26] <CareBear\> it seems you can drive one motor with one TB6560 chip
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[09:38:58] <CareBear\> so there should be three of them on that board
[09:39:08] <raynerd> yes, correct
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[09:40:47] <raynerd> my motor is wired B- = blue, B+ = orange, A- = red, A+ = yellow
[09:41:07] <raynerd> I presume if this was wrong, my motors would not be turning at all.
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[09:42:10] <CareBear\> you can always try swapping things around
[09:42:48] <CareBear\> the noise and poor steady state suggests that they are connected wrong
[09:42:51] <raynerd> lol, when I swap things around without thought, things tend to go pop on me!!
[09:43:14] <CareBear\> well, be careful how you test
[09:43:40] <raynerd> I appreciate I`m asking a lot, but could you please clarify how I should determine the wiring.
[09:43:54] <raynerd> i.e which colour to each A+. A-. B+, B-
[09:44:03] <CareBear\> the best by far is if you can visualize the driver signals
[09:44:32] <CareBear\> maybe a scope if you have a probe with good attenuation
[09:45:16] <raynerd> when I test with a meter. I have continuity between A+, A- and B+, B-
[09:45:26] <CareBear\> yeah no that's no good
[09:45:27] <raynerd> which I thought was correct
[09:45:31] <CareBear\> yes it is
[09:45:38] <CareBear\> but it doesn't show what you want
[09:45:50] <CareBear\> there are two factors to consider, sequence and polarity
[09:45:56] <CareBear\> for A and B each
[09:46:15] <CareBear\> so there are 7 wrong combinations and 1 right
[09:46:23] <raynerd> I see, bugger
[09:46:47] <raynerd> I`ve no scope, so that is out the window and I can`t find the datasheet for my exact motors
[09:47:07] <CareBear\> I have the datasheet, but it says nothing about wire colours
[09:47:30] <raynerd> ah bugger
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[09:48:56] <raynerd> without a scope, is there anything else I can do?
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[09:52:48] <raynerd> any thoughts CareBare?
[09:53:40] <CareBear\> I think you B is reversed, and that you should swap A and B
[09:53:45] <CareBear\> your
[09:54:15] <CareBear\> the official driver connects 1-orange 2-blue 3-red 4-yellow
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[09:54:53] <CareBear\> ah here we go
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[09:55:30] <CareBear\> http://www.sanyo-denki.com/Data/Servo/catalogs/F2.pdf page 53 on the bottom
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[09:56:22] <CareBear\> you clearly have one winding in reverse
[09:56:42] <raynerd> slowww download, one sec.
[09:58:38] <raynerd> p53 - Motor cable：4835710-1 I see wire colours?? 6 wires though
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[09:59:06] <raynerd> pdf page 52??
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[09:59:13] <CareBear\> 53 here, but 52 in page corner
[10:00:05] <CareBear\> it's also possible that I'm just stupid and you have it connected fine
[10:00:11] <raynerd> yes.. OK got you.
[10:00:52] <CareBear\> but steady state does suggest otherwise
[10:01:56] <raynerd> so again, I know I might be being thick here...in your opinion, in simple terms B+ =colour, B- = colour..... how would you suggest wire it?
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[10:02:36] <CareBear\> that depends on how A and B are sequenced and what the polarity is
[10:02:42] <CareBear\> I can't tell you that
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[10:03:17] <CareBear\> we can assume and maybe we'll guess right.. it's 1/8
[10:03:29] <raynerd> ok
[10:03:42] <CareBear\> do you have some LEDs blinking on the TB board?
[10:04:20] <raynerd> some LEDs are ON steady but not blinking.
[10:04:55] <raynerd> two of the LEds I believe are showing the two voltage regs are working.
[10:05:27] <CareBear\> makes sense
[10:05:42] <raynerd> infact, when I launch emc, all LEDs go off except the two for the voltage regulators
[10:07:01] <CareBear\> but there's no light show when running
[10:07:52] <raynerd> one sec, just had to reboot. Will check now
[10:08:36] <CareBear\> do you have two LEDs and two 2k2 resistors?
[10:09:24] <CareBear\> well, just the meter might do actually
[10:09:29] <CareBear\> as long as you can single step
[10:09:56] <raynerd> OK, just checked...I`m concentrating so hard on the machine and software, must look at the driver. there are thee LEDs on the board and they VERY faintly light up when running code
[10:10:17] <CareBear\> ok, but just three
[10:10:18] <CareBear\> no help
[10:10:23] <CareBear\> break out the meter
[10:10:26] <CareBear\> disconnect motors
[10:10:28] <raynerd> the bottom one of the three, nearest the parallel port is on strong.
[10:10:29] <CareBear\> go to steady state
[10:10:29] <raynerd> ok
[10:10:57] <CareBear\> measure all six outputs, being consistent with polarity
[10:11:07] <raynerd> OK, all motors disconnected. Do I keep power and parallel connected?
[10:11:11] <CareBear\> yes
[10:11:22] <raynerd> ok
[10:11:29] <CareBear\> I guess you already know which is X Y and Z
[10:11:30] <CareBear\> so pick any one
[10:11:41] <CareBear\> but might not be bad to go over them all
[10:11:59] <raynerd> sorry...not clear what you are asking me to actually do with the meter?
[10:12:10] <CareBear\> black meter probe to A- red to A+
[10:12:26] <raynerd> ahh ok.
[10:12:27] <CareBear\> next black B- and red B+
[10:12:35] <CareBear\> note down results
[10:12:55] <CareBear\> then see if you can get the software to do exactly one step on that axis
[10:12:57] <raynerd> ok, get that, but measuring??
[10:13:01] <CareBear\> voltage
[10:13:03] <raynerd> ok
[10:13:06] <CareBear\> DC
[10:13:23] <CareBear\> it should say 24V or -24V
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[10:16:58] <CareBear\> what do you get?
[10:17:00] <raynerd> meter across X axis A- to A+ 0v, X axis, A+ to A- = 24v BUT all other axis read 0v!
[10:17:14] <raynerd> SORRY!
[10:17:23] <CareBear\> huh?
[10:17:35] <raynerd> x axis, A-, A+ = 0v , B-,B+ = 24.6v
[10:17:49] <raynerd> ALL other axis read 0 volts on ALL connections!
[10:18:03] <raynerd> i.e A-,A+ and B-,B+
[10:18:07] <CareBear\> yes
[10:18:19] <CareBear\> can you get one step on X?
[10:18:32] <CareBear\> I don't know if the software has an easy way to do that
[10:18:43] <CareBear\> very important that it's not moving some distance
[10:18:51] <CareBear\> but that it's exactly one step
[10:19:04] <raynerd> not sure how to do that in emc2
[10:19:16] <raynerd> I do have mach3 actually on other side of the computer, not sure on that either
[10:20:30] <CareBear\> if we assume that left is A and bottom is B (picture lower left p.52) then you are currently in exciting order 1 or 4
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[10:20:55] <CareBear\> I don't suppose you get some reading if you measure black A+ and red A- ?
[10:20:56] <raynerd> OK, very sorry. Enabling the lock on EMc and I get 24v across each A+ and A- connection, 0v across B+ and B-
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[10:21:21] <CareBear\> mhm
[10:21:23] <raynerd> across each axis
[10:21:50] <CareBear\> need to also do one step
[10:22:27] <CareBear\> do you get 0V also if you measure B- to B+ ?
[10:22:30] <CareBear\> ie. swap black and red
[10:23:13] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[10:23:42] <raynerd> sorry, nipped to lo.
[10:23:53] <raynerd> no, B- to B+ gives 0v on each axis
[10:24:14] <CareBear\> and if you swap on A you'll get -24 ?
[10:24:40] <raynerd> A- to A+ always gives me 24v
[10:24:49] <CareBear\> what if you swap black and red?
[10:25:12] <raynerd> yes sure
[10:25:18] <raynerd> -24v
[10:25:23] <CareBear\> ok
[10:25:44] <CareBear\> good. next need to do exactly one step. afraid I have no idea how to do that..
[10:26:49] <raynerd> lol, bugger
[10:27:27] <raynerd> jog only shows smalles step is 0.005mm which is more than 1 step I expect
[10:27:59] <CareBear\> 1.8 deg right?
[10:28:25] <raynerd> yes
[10:28:46] <CareBear\> so 1/200th turn
[10:29:08] <CareBear\> how far that is depends on your gear ratio obviously
[10:29:37] <raynerd> but there are no motors connected. Are you talking about half stepping and such
[10:30:10] <CareBear\> doesn't matter that nothing is connected since there is no feedback anyway
[10:30:19] <CareBear\> any half stepping and microstepping must be disabled
[10:31:19] <raynerd> well I`ve disabled half step to full step but I think I am now stuck
[10:31:31] <CareBear\> you don't know your gear ratio?
[10:31:38] <raynerd> gear ratio?
[10:31:54] <CareBear\> axis travel for one turn of the drive shaft
[10:32:01] <raynerd> I`m using 2mm pitch leadscrew
[10:32:05] <raynerd> yes 2mm pitch
[10:32:31] <CareBear\> so one turn means 2 mm travel ?
[10:32:33] <raynerd> yes
[10:33:04] <CareBear\> then you should move X .01mm
[10:33:12] <raynerd> correct, so 200 steps = 2mm on full step.
[10:34:03] <raynerd> so in mdi that would be g0 x??
[10:34:22] <CareBear\> no idea, sorry
[10:34:34] <raynerd> got it !!!
[10:34:35] <CareBear\> move X relative .01mm "forward"
[10:34:47] <raynerd> ok, I can do that
[10:34:50] <CareBear\> and position is not important, so you only get one try
[10:35:07] <raynerd> there is a jog by 0.01mm button! :D
[10:35:14] <CareBear\> what is important is new driver state in comparison to previous driver state
[10:35:25] <CareBear\> ok
[10:35:53] <raynerd> ok, so am basically reading the value of A+ A- when I move the axis?
[10:36:00] <CareBear\> after, yes
[10:36:06] <CareBear\> both A and B
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[10:40:37] <CareBear\> and?
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[10:41:22] <raynerd> It moves so quick it is hard to capture. I think it seems to drop from 24v to about 4-5v on A- A+ but across B- B+ I don`t capture anything
[10:41:25] <raynerd> significant
[10:41:29] <raynerd> it just flickers
[10:42:28] <raynerd> should I be reading as I press the move axis. Or do I just do it comfortably in my own time after I`ve moved the axis?
[10:42:35] <raynerd> almost to read a new state?
[10:43:59] <CareBear\> if the move works as intended you can measure comfortably after moving
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[10:44:19] <raynerd> not only that...in emc the state of the microsteping is set to 2 so actually, will I have to change this to 1 to do this test??
[10:44:46] <raynerd> and, it seems like you are inferring that I should have the motor plugged in for this tesT?
[10:44:52] <mazafaka> And EMC dot com develops the Enhanced Machine Controller itself, or just offers IT solutions and various another stuff?
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[10:46:39] <CareBear\> no motor needs to be plugged in
[10:49:02] <raynerd> OK, A-,A+ = 0v to 0v and B- to B+ 24v to 0v
[10:49:17] <raynerd> I say 0v, it is flickering around 0.3v
[10:49:45] <raynerd> SORRY!! A-A+ 24v to 0v and B-B+ 0v to 0v
[10:50:17] <raynerd> has that helped in any way?
[10:55:24] <raynerd> does that tell us anything..what is it we are trying to find out?
[10:59:56] <raynerd> Carebare: you vanished?!?
[11:18:34] <CareBear\> well..
[11:19:41] <CareBear\> okey, raynerd : try repeat once more, then measure again
[11:21:13] <CareBear\> repeat/move
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[12:05:02] <mrsun> hmm, i could make a spacer that fits in the current tool holder to be able to hold my new tools, will offset them out so will weaken everything a bit but it could work :P
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[13:25:04] <Tecan> sweet i won the lottery
[13:25:19] <Tecan> 50 million
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[13:26:18] <Tecan> happy 1st
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[13:39:35] <raynerd> Carebare: you still about?
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[15:36:30] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: !
[15:36:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yes?
[15:37:42] <JT-Shop> ever since I got wildblue satellite my IRC connection constantly resets, any clue what I can do to stop that?
[15:37:55] <JT-Shop> I use Chatzilla
[15:38:40] <Jymmm> I've noticed (and even kicked you when you were idle and bouncing for over 2 hour straight, but someone whined, and well blah blah)...
[15:38:58] <JT-Shop> yea, I forgot to turn it off
[15:39:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: are you ok if I kick you when your bouncing for 60minutes plus?
[15:39:29] <JT-Shop> yea
[15:39:33] <Jymmm> k
[15:39:51] <Jymmm> do you have any issues with anythign else other than irc?
[15:40:29] <JT-Shop> not that I know of, in fact I connected to another network and left it on overnight with no resets
[15:40:36] <Tecan> lol i used mason jar lids for the laser tube holder
[15:40:39] <JT-Shop> so something to do with freenode and me
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[15:41:12] <archivist> JT-Shop, they ping you to see if you are alive
[15:41:17] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: hang on,let me check something... Just keep rambling in the channel though, start singing or something
[15:41:28] <JT-Shop> llllll
[15:41:37] <JT-Shop> freenode?
[15:41:55] <JT-Shop> archivist: they = ?
[15:42:25] <dgarr> JT-Shop: http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/andy_sails_through_the_goldengate.jpg
[15:42:38] <archivist> freenode
[15:42:45] <JT-Shop> dgarr: cool
[15:43:26] <JT-Shop> archivist: speaking of steam what do you think of the 5 HP Compound in this link http://www.reliablesteam.com/RSE/RSEengines.html
[15:44:10] <JT-Shop> my buddy wants to build one
[15:44:48] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: It's strange, you're here for 30s, bounce, then return for 4.5 minutes, repeat. Let me check somethign else.
[15:44:57] <JT-Shop> ok
[15:46:45] <archivist> JT-Shop, http://heekscadlog.archivist.info/2012-03-31.txt :)
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[15:47:41] <archivist> and he's back http://heekscadlog.archivist.info/2012-03-31.txt
[15:48:06] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: did you stop singing?
[15:48:13] <JT-Shop> I must have
[15:48:29] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: well, keep the dogs howling
[15:48:54] <JT-Shop> I was pealing an orange
[15:49:52] <JT-Shop> should I just create a bogus channel and type away there not to flood here?
[15:50:02] <archivist> ping timeout looks like 240 secs
[15:50:33] <archivist> should be able to diagnose by the error (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:50:46] <JT-Shop> how is that?
[15:51:03] <JT-Shop> [ERROR] Connection to irc://freenode/ (irc://chat.freenode.net/) reset. [Help]
[15:52:03] <JT-Shop> I called wildblue technical support and they didn't know what an IRC was...
[15:52:17] <JT-Shop> a little furry animal I think
[15:52:30] <archivist> hehe useless
[15:52:42] <JT-Shop> yea
[15:52:49] <Tom_itx> http://freenode.net/privacy_change.html
[15:52:52] <Tom_itx> you should read
[15:53:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: try a REAL irc client
[15:53:13] <JT-Shop> ok
[15:53:17] <archivist> my bot timed out yesterday with the_wench has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) you drop out with (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[15:53:26] <Tom_itx> logs will be stored and made available to GOVT agencies
[15:53:38] <archivist> xchat is not the problem as I use it too
[15:53:58] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: which irc client?
[15:54:10] <JT-Shop> is xchat the same as chatzilla
[15:54:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: No, you can try xchat
[15:54:40] <JT-Shop> ok
[15:55:37] <JT-Shop> downloading now
[15:55:40] <Tecan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/300599211528?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
[15:55:41] <JT-Shop> oh it is done
[15:55:51] <JT-Shop> archivist: did you get to look at that link?
[15:56:00] <Tom_itx> Jymmm big brother will be watching you
[15:56:43] <archivist> JT-Shop, looks possibly acceptable, but I thought they should have some better pictures
[15:57:01] <JT-Shop> yea, my buddy ordered the pdf to look at it
[15:57:15] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: setting up xchat be back in a bit
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[15:58:42] <JT-Shop> well here I am
[15:58:52] <archivist> cant see you
[15:59:03] <JT-Shop> I'm over here
[15:59:16] <JT-Shop> I'll shutup now and see what happens
[15:59:21] * archivist looks under the carpet
[16:00:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Been there, done that a LONG time ago. the UNITED STATES PRESIDENT OBAMA used to KILL all big issues we were facing, but is no longer 'Da BOMB' he once was. (Hello Echelon - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_%28signals_intelligence%29)
[16:01:56] <archivist> JT-Shop, another way is buy an old steam book and draw up his own
[16:03:27] <JT-Shop> any titles you might suggest?
[16:05:13] <archivist> er.. let me cheat http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=steam
[16:08:47] <archivist> some early technical drawing books would use steam engine parts as examples
[16:10:00] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you gonna make a steam engine?
[16:10:20] <JT-Shop> yea
[16:10:30] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=BK2665
[16:10:52] <Tom_itx> my grandfather made one for me when i was a kid
[16:10:59] <Tom_itx> still up in the attic i think
[16:13:33] <archivist> I must finish the model steam engines I have
[16:16:50] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ping?
[16:19:11] <JT-Shop> yes
[16:19:29] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: WOOHOO, you haven't bounced!
[16:19:43] <fragalot> JT-Shop: do it. they're so satisfying ^_^
[16:20:00] <JT-Shop> I'm stoked, that was a pain in ass for everyone
[16:20:16] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yes, yes it was =)
[16:20:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Alls well in swap-a-souri now =)
[16:20:51] <JT-Shop> yea, sorry about that
[16:21:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I tease, it's all good.
[16:21:26] * JT-Shop is off loading chatzilla now
[16:23:23] <JT-Shop> archivist, is this a good book to read? http://www.amazon.com/Stationary-Steam-Engines-Shire-Library/dp/0852636520
[16:26:57] <Tom_itx> did they ever use stationary steam engines in factories on the long drive lines they had overhead for the machines?
[16:27:52] <fragalot> probably
[16:32:09] <ssi> JT-Shop: I busted my hardinge :'(
[16:33:12] <rob_h> broke what
[16:33:20] <fragalot> his hardinge
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[16:33:32] <rob_h> part wise
[16:33:37] <ssi> the little flex coupler between the screw and hte ressolver/tach drive gear
[16:33:38] <JT-Shop> damit jim he is dead
[16:33:38] <ssi> on X
[16:33:51] <rob_h> aaah
[16:34:02] <fragalot> ssi: not too bad then?
[16:34:06] <rob_h> pritty standard part then
[16:34:16] <JT-Shop> yea
[16:34:22] <JT-Shop> hi Rob!
[16:34:24] <ssi> waiting to find out how many billions of dollars that'll cost me from hardinge
[16:34:33] <fragalot> beats bending the frame (somehow) :P
[16:34:47] <ssi> mcmaster wants $70 for a similar part
[16:35:06] <fragalot> make a new one yourself on the hardi..wait
[16:35:06] <ssi> I managed to silver solder mine back together, so I'll probably try to put it back together like that today
[16:35:35] <fragalot> ssi: do you know what alloy it is made of?
[16:35:49] <fragalot> sometimes silver solder might look good but has absolutely NO structural strength
[16:35:58] <rob_h> iv been trying to fix the very bad designed hardinge air joint for the closer.. stop it leaking as bad as it does
[16:36:03] <ssi> the bellows are nickel I think
[16:36:08] <ssi> and it doesn't need very much strength
[16:36:29] <fragalot> it would appear that it does, seeing that it broke :P
[16:37:03] <ssi> assumptions will get you nowhere :)
[16:37:04] <rob_h> hi over there john
[16:37:13] <fragalot> ssi: :D
[16:37:21] <ssi> it broke because I was screwing with tuning
[16:37:30] <ssi> and got a real hard oscillation, so very high accel
[16:37:36] <fragalot> ah
[16:37:46] <ssi> the only load on that coupler is accelerating the inertia of the resolver and tach through a 5:1 gear ratio
[16:37:56] <ssi> the couplers are rated like 6 in-lb
[16:38:16] <JT-Shop> rob_h, did you get the collet closer to stop leaking?
[16:38:24] <rob_h> just shaking all the metal out from the slides was you
[16:38:37] <rob_h> no, you cant. well you can but you have to be GOD i think
[16:38:47] <ssi> rob_h: yeah I made a M199 macro that just shimmies all the chips off the machine :)
[16:38:55] <rob_h> the old bearings had worn away the metal seating face..
[16:39:19] <rob_h> and to seal. they rely on the bearing inner face being a very close fit to the housing that does not move..
[16:39:23] <rob_h> so too close they bind and lock up
[16:39:29] <rob_h> too far and you have a air line on the back
[16:40:03] <rob_h> we got it machined pritty well back to how it should of been.. and now new bearing are sealing good again. a little leak but not like it was..
[16:40:34] <rob_h> what it realy wants is some way of putting seals in there. and let the bearings do there real job
[16:41:11] <fragalot> ssi: rofl
[16:41:38] <Jymmm> Bearings, and seals, oh my!
[16:42:07] <fragalot> rob_h: teflon ring?
[16:42:09] <rob_h> or change it for a hydrolic unit. :) like other ones are
[16:42:49] <rob_h> yea might work.. as long as would not mind zero lube and doing 4000-6000rpm all its life when in use
[16:43:04] <fragalot> "all it's life" should be fine
[16:43:14] <fragalot> :P
[16:43:23] <rob_h> carbon seal might work too
[16:43:31] <fragalot> probably better
[16:43:43] <fragalot> (inb4 graphite)
[16:44:08] <rob_h> should self lubrecate
[16:45:51] <JT-Shop> http://rotarysystems.com/series-011
[16:46:09] <ssi> the chnc spindle does 6000rpm?
[16:46:14] <JT-Shop> yea
[16:46:18] <ssi> holy jeez
[16:46:31] <JT-Shop> you should see it when you have too much P
[16:46:36] <ssi> suppose it's unwise to run the hnc spindle that fast?
[16:46:52] <rob_h> my superslant does 6000rpm too.. but u want a good barfeed todo that with 4m hanging out the back
[16:47:16] <JT-Shop> yea, that could whop the fire of everything within 3m
[16:47:56] <rob_h> ssi i dont know. not sure on the bearing sizes and type in there
[16:48:05] <fragalot> rob_h: shop I used to work for had that go wrong once
[16:48:20] <rob_h> what go wrong?
[16:48:26] <fragalot> barfeeder pulled the nuts out of the concrete floor & started dancing, all of the guide bearing plate thingies inside of it got torn out
[16:48:31] <ssi> I wouldn't mind overspeeding that motor some, but I want to know what the bearings can take somehow
[16:48:44] <Tom_itx> you have a feed tube don't you?
[16:48:44] <Tom_itx> to hide the bar
[16:48:47] <fragalot> the feed chain itself broke, and there were various dents in the chassis of it
[16:48:55] <ssi> motor's only 1150rpm
[16:49:10] <Tom_itx> mmm
[16:49:12] <fragalot> wasn't pretty the next morning...
[16:49:13] <rob_h> aah yea we have multi size hydrolic feeders on our lathes.. so bars fit quite nice and run nice and quite too
[16:49:22] <fragalot> (that machine ran 24/7à
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[16:49:49] <fragalot> rob_h: that machine HAD a nice fit until it went wrong, lol
[16:49:55] <fragalot> still not sure what caused it
[16:50:01] <Tom_itx> fragalot pour footing under it :)
[16:50:23] <fragalot> Tom_itx: it *WAS* anchored in concrete with 14mm studs :P
[16:50:50] <fragalot> all I can think of it that SOMEHOW something caused it to vibrate & a poor concrete quality
[16:51:17] <fragalot> (it had machined the same part it was working on before it happened roughly 40k times)
[16:51:31] <kb8wmc> .... . .-.. .-.. ---
[16:51:47] <rob_h> someone forgot a bar prep and out cam the pushing at spindle end
[16:51:48] <fragalot> anyway it got a new barfeeder & is now making the same parts again, lol
[16:52:00] <ssi> hello yourself
[16:52:14] <kb8wmc> lol....
[16:52:29] <fragalot> rob_h: possibly, I only saw the carnage after the bars were removed from it
[16:52:30] <ssi> (73 de n4ml)
[16:54:32] <kb8wmc> aha, qth?
[16:54:38] <kb8wmc> EN73 qth here
[16:56:25] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, it has been a while and no reset... think you fixed it THANKS
[16:56:41] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Lucky guess =)
[16:57:04] <ssi> EM74
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[16:58:20] * JT-Shop wanders inside for a nap now...
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[16:59:29] <Jymmm> BI28
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[17:00:57] <ssi> Jymm is on a raft apparently
[17:01:00] <Jymmm> EN73, EM74 HA! Damn land lovers! Bi28 is where it's at biotch!
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[17:01:38] <ssi> ooh that's near christmas island
[17:01:47] <ssi> you can go visit where they host goatse.cx
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[17:01:56] <Jymmm> Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
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[17:13:04] <archivist> JT-Shop, Shire(publisher) tends to be small picture books looks expensive for one of those
[17:14:11] <archivist> JT-Shop, proper price direct http://www.shirebooks.co.uk/store/Stationary-Steam-Engines_9780852636527
[17:14:26] <archivist> about 20-30 pages
[17:14:41] <archivist> ah 32 if I look
[17:15:48] <archivist> I have an older one, no drawings
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[17:34:49] <ssi> ok got the soldered coupler back in place
[17:34:57] <ssi> machine is running, but as I feared, my homing is all screwed up
[17:35:40] <IchGuckLive> ssi good practice
[17:35:53] <ssi> hah good practice for what
[17:36:02] <IchGuckLive> homing programming
[17:36:04] <ssi> the "machine tool setup triathlon"?
[17:37:21] <ssi> problem is it no longer catches a fine home at the same time as the coarse home
[17:37:29] <ssi> I gotta adjust the prox switch on fine home
[17:37:59] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: good day to you sir.....
[17:38:54] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: hi
[17:42:15] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/JTE4k.jpg
[17:42:21] <Tecan> is this even going to work ?
[17:43:57] <Nick001> Just turn the alum housing to where the switch works like it should
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[17:44:46] <DJ9DJ> namd
[17:45:05] <IchGuckLive> Tecan: yes
[17:45:28] <Tecan> thanks :)
[17:45:34] <IchGuckLive> the ölaser will burn as the focus is generated in the head
[17:46:00] <Tecan> ya but the whole setup
[17:46:06] <Tecan> its just hacked together
[17:46:30] <Tecan> time for a few test fires
[17:47:13] <Nick001> ssi - if it happens again - use a marker and make a line to reassemble it close to where you were
[17:47:45] <ssi> Nick001: yeah that would have been clever, huh
[17:48:08] <ssi> I have it back open now, working on trying to realign the fine switch
[17:49:05] <IchGuckLive> tecan for 0.01mm precisan its enoph
[17:51:22] <cncbasher> Tecan: great to see someone live dangerously ...
[17:51:45] <cncbasher> http://www.m-machine-metals.co.uk/mm/website/engineering_movie_laser1.html
[17:51:51] <cncbasher> now turn the power up
[17:56:22] <Nick001> ssi - had a couple of them go over the years so I know your pain
[17:57:21] <IchGuckLive> cncbasher: not compare to a triumpf laser cutter
[17:58:44] <cncbasher> yea trumpf are ok , just repaired one last week all the mirrors had to be changed
[17:58:54] <cncbasher> that was a right pain
[17:59:07] <IchGuckLive> i got somany broken hads here of these to
[17:59:47] <IchGuckLive> in the video the watercooling right above the power is cool O.O
[18:00:30] <cncbasher> yea the lens is in a water cooled jacket
[18:01:16] <IchGuckLive> in the video why are the parts not lalling out it got a full motion around wonders !!
[18:01:25] <cncbasher> also the nozzle is springloaded
[18:02:40] <cncbasher> the material is laid on cross hatch type frame
[18:03:26] <IchGuckLive> ah yes now otherwise it woudt not me that flat
[18:04:30] <cncbasher> the frame is made up with stringers about 6" apart
[18:05:39] <IchGuckLive> thickness ?
[18:06:21] <cncbasher> the frame ? or the panel it is cutting ?
[18:06:34] <IchGuckLive> is the air pressure controled or strait fixed 6bar
[18:06:57] <IchGuckLive> the stringers
[18:07:07] <cncbasher> air pressure is only 2 bar , but variable
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[18:07:29] <cncbasher> stringers 1inch and a 1/4 deep
[18:07:40] <cncbasher> x 1/8"
[18:08:03] <cncbasher> with a main section across the centre
[18:08:23] <cncbasher> i'll photo it during the week and show up
[18:08:28] <cncbasher> show you
[18:08:48] <IchGuckLive> that sounds good 6" soundet very with
[18:08:57] <IchGuckLive> very spacy
[18:09:24] <cncbasher> we dont have any problem and it means the small part fall through
[18:10:03] <cncbasher> rather than catch or rise up and catch the head
[18:10:20] <IchGuckLive> yes it is pretty working that way Thought about the sheet hanging
[18:11:23] <cncbasher> the sheet is clamped at the righthand side only
[18:11:41] <cncbasher> and just laid across
[18:11:44] <cncbasher> works fine
[18:13:38] <IchGuckLive> isent the co2 pressure controled every head up
[18:13:45] <JT-Shop> hmmm, I feel much better now and look no resets!
[18:14:15] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: BBQ still up
[18:14:22] <cncbasher> your back up and runnng JT ?
[18:14:31] <JT-Shop> I think so
[18:15:16] <JT-Shop> archivist, what about this book? http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Steam-Engines-Joshua-Rose/dp/1931626154/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333303864&sr=1-6
[18:15:31] <IchGuckLive> im off by
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[18:16:46] <JT-Shop> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/modern-steam-engines-joshua-rose/1101969574
[18:17:28] <ssi> argh
[18:17:41] <ssi> one of the wires on the stupid little taper pin terminal blocks is broken
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[18:17:52] <archivist> I though amazon was supposed to be cheap
[18:18:13] <ssi> ssi> one of the wires on the stupid little taper pin terminal blocks is broken
[18:18:30] <ssi> anyone have any brilliant suggestions on how to pull those stupid things without the proper tool?
[18:19:58] <JT-Shop> looks like barnes & noble is cheaper
[18:20:08] <archivist> taper pins, pin punch the small end
[18:20:15] <ssi> can't get to the small end
[18:20:17] <JT-Shop> ssi drill it out and solder it back
[18:20:22] <ssi> JT-Shop: hrm
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[18:35:42] <Nick001-Shop> is the pin broken or just the wire?
[18:39:34] <ssi> the wire broke off at the pin
[18:39:38] <ssi> I have it soldered back now
[18:39:43] <ssi> but I'm not real confident in it :/
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[18:54:29] <tom3p> JT-Shop, dont forget powell's for used books, 394 stem engine entries http://www.powells.com/s?kw=steam+engine&class=
[18:54:31] <tom3p> ( and back issues of Model Engineering )
[18:57:19] <JT-Shop> didn't know abut powell's
[18:59:10] <archivist> Model Engineering did a marine engine, a local company does the castings
[19:00:42] <archivist> https://vault1.secured-url.com/reeves2000/shop_subcategory.asp?cat_id=9
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[19:04:31] <ssi> oh ffs
[19:04:40] <ssi> get one wire fixed and anotehr one breaks :(
[19:04:54] <chrisRa> I have been having a problem with my mill, thinking it was losing steps or backlash, but I`ve realised it is actually end float in the stepper motor, physically pushing the leadscrew. The leadscrews are currently drilled 1/4" in the end and tapped m4. The motor spindle pushes into the 1/4" bore and directly drives the leadscrew. What is the correct method of removing this end float?
[19:04:58] <JT-Shop> they are real delicate
[19:05:39] <JT-Shop> stepper motors should never have thrust loads
[19:06:06] <chrisRa> I`ve read what I can on the net and it seems I should have bearings somewhere...I can`t visualise how or where!
[19:06:17] <archivist> chrisRa, normally the stepper has a flexible connection and the leadscrew has its own bearings to control endfloat
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[19:08:54] <chrisRa> So really, is there no option for me other than to make a bracket to step the motor off the main frame of the machine?
[19:09:42] <CareBear\> or shorten the axis
[19:10:20] <chrisRa> in what way?
[19:10:39] <seb_kuzminsky> wooo!!! 2.5.0 is released! :-)
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[19:12:04] <archivist> chrisRa, or go to belt drive and have the motor under the axis
[19:12:33] <chrisRa> that is a big change and much more money
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[19:14:48] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: For your gantry... http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14002898-4_ways_rainproof_hoist_pushbutton_switch_pendant_control_station_w_emergency_stop.html
[19:15:41] <XXPCWXX> chrisRa: whats the far end bearing? is there room for a thrust bearing there?
[19:17:02] <chrisRa> there is none, it is floating as well!
[19:17:46] <chrisRa> Although it may be the best option to turn a little bearing block and fit a thrust bearing in the end of that so that the leadscrew pushes up against it.
[19:17:52] <archivist> then just ass a spring loaded bearing to an end
[19:17:55] <archivist> add
[19:19:16] <chrisRa> spring loaded bearing?
[19:19:55] <archivist> wavy spring behind a normal bearing, seen in motors etc
[19:19:57] <tom3p> cardek et al : congratulations on the new release, thanks for all the hard work
[19:20:14] <tom3p> cradek (scusa)
[19:21:12] <archivist> chrisRa, http://www.smalley.com/wave_springs/about_springs.asp
[19:21:31] <XXPCWXX> Yes a big thanks to all involved!
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[19:21:57] <frallzor> yoyo
[19:22:12] <chrisRa> archivist: being spring loaded, wouldn`t that give a little play still from the motor end float?
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[19:22:45] <archivist> just make the spring above forces expected
[19:25:08] <frallzor> springs work nice if you do as archivist said, works like charm on my mechmate =)
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[19:26:43] <archivist> best is a pair of proper axial bearings preloaded at one end
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[19:28:59] <ReadError> afternoon 'yall
[19:30:08] <ssi> XXPCWXX: got my machine back running with the soldered coupler
[19:35:51] <JT-Shop> sweet
[19:36:11] <ssi> homing's working again, but I'm going to have to recalibrate everything
[19:36:19] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: and sour
[19:36:42] <JT-Shop> but I don't read chinese
[19:36:58] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: what/who you calling sweet?
[19:39:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: a good size perspective http://iw.suntekstore.com/office_cache/273/14002898/iw1316678563_14002898_5_image.jpg
[19:41:16] <syyl_> finished my lathe stand :D
[19:41:18] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/IMG_0259.jpg
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[19:41:48] <JT-Shop> Nice!
[19:42:11] <syyl_> acts also as a cooleant and chip tray :)
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[19:43:19] <ssi> syyl_: very nice...
[19:43:25] <ssi> syyl_: I have a similar project in the wings
[19:43:51] <ssi> syyl_: my little lathe is the same casting as yours, and I'm going to make a new table with chip tray and coolant sump for it out of steel tube and sheetmetal
[19:44:04] <syyl_> ah :)
[19:44:16] <ReadError> anyone here use a taig mill?
[19:44:31] <ssi> JT-Shop: I've been working on resealing my plasma's water table... it leaked
[19:44:31] <syyl_> i added a massive central column, to give a bit more rigidity
[19:44:40] <ssi> just filled it up with water to test it, and it still leaks a little bit :(
[19:44:51] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/untergestell4.png
[19:45:08] <ssi> wow
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[19:51:17] <JT-Shop> ssi, what do you use in your water to stablilze it?
[19:55:28] <ssi> JT-Shop: I bought some sodium nitrite and some fungicide, but I never put them in because it leaks
[20:08:15] <JT-Shop> yea I use sodium nitrite and physan 20
[20:08:24] <JT-Shop> gotta fix them leaks
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[20:29:42] <ssi> I think physan 20 might be what I have as well
[20:29:55] <ssi> I think it's actually leaking a little bit around the silicone
[20:30:02] <ssi> I see tiny little bubbles form at the edge of the fillet
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[20:37:40] <tom3p> ssi: spray on pickemuptruck bed liner? we used it to refurb wire edm tanks (re-doing baked on enamel was too expensive)
[20:38:04] <tom3p> and very forgiving to dropped stock ( enamel chipped )
[20:39:51] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:49:45] <ssi> tom3p: I used rubberized undercoating
[20:49:50] <ssi> plus silicone fillets in the cracks
[20:54:38] <tom3p> ssi: sorry to hear that, seems something dont stick to somebody tho. and i know its a mess to start again ( btdt )
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[20:59:29] <ssi> yeah it's probably because I'm lazy and don't like to prep
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[22:09:48] <JT-Shop> dang it a cut off wheel on a angle grinder will cut right through MIG welding gloves :/
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[22:15:53] <KimK_ibmlaptop> Hi JT, be careful, we want you to be able to type when you get your fancy new satellite internet. How are things there otherwise? Congratulations on the 2.5 release, thanks for all your hard work on it.
[22:17:14] <frallzor> angle grinders cuts through thumbs too
[22:17:20] <frallzor> I know =P
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[22:50:08] <alex_joni> http://www.google.com/js/reallyadvanced.html
[22:52:50] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_UmWdcTrrc&feature=player_embedded#!
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[23:22:03] <ssi> is it possible to force a G43 after every tool change?
[23:26:21] <Jymmm> Question #1: How in the hell did he make this? It blooms in under 10s. He says it's 20F in the garage and that he did NOT preheat the stove. There is mention that he used 5 cans to make this one stove... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzd0mGZjb-0
[23:27:31] <Jymmm> Question #2: WHY can't you just set on top of this stove without it trying to go out. I thought it might have been a heatsink thing, but after playing around I dont think that's it.
[23:27:42] <Jymmm> s/top/pot
[23:27:56] <Jymmm> /
[23:29:57] <Jymmm> and it blooms without priming it either!
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[23:40:32] <Jymmm> Here is another one of his videos of them... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0gQcSA3jhk&feature=channel
[23:45:46] <Jymmm> Denatured alcohol boils around 172F/78C, so doesn't that mean he has to not only get the metal that hot, but also produce alcohol gas all within 10 seconds?
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[23:52:46] <alex_joni> Jymmm: looks like a side burner
[23:52:48] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverage-can_stove
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