#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-02-20

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[02:00:27] <skunkworks_> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DIY-CNC/message/32022
[02:02:04] <skunkworks_> http://pastebin.com/F0QXDq9q
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[02:03:59] <pfred1> well I never used mach but I wouldn't let Windows run a tea kettle so ...
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[02:12:40] <cstop> skunk
[02:13:24] <pfred1> skunkworks_ now that you've pointed that message out I'm going to reply to it in the group and see what trouble I can cause :>
[02:13:33] <cstop> What did I just read on your pastebin reference? Disgruntled? (Just what would gruntled be?)
[02:13:48] <pfred1> Isn't it fair to say that steppers are crap compared to servos?
[02:14:04] <cstop> no not fair
[02:14:12] <pfred1> well it is true
[02:14:39] <cstop> no steppers should be viewed as high pole count motors that is all,
[02:15:17] <pfred1> steppers run like motors designed by a pollak they're totally bassackwards in operation
[02:15:50] <pfred1> the faster they go the less power you get out of them the slower the more
[02:16:17] <pfred1> it is no wonder people shell out for servos
[02:16:20] <cstop> so instead of micro stepping, do you propose macro stepping? i.e. six pole equivalent?
[02:16:40] <pfred1> microstepping doesn't help you with field excitation
[02:17:02] <pfred1> them coils are going to take time to develop magnetic fields then lose them
[02:17:13] <pfred1> it is physics
[02:17:18] <cstop> for most "real world" applications (machines) power at high speeds is not needed.
[02:17:45] <cstop> yes, macro stepping
[02:17:55] <pfred1> I've dgar raced my stepper motors enough to have seen it time and time again
[02:18:23] <pfred1> gobs of power at 800 RPM beans at 1200
[02:18:31] <cstop> what use is drag racing? except to glorify the deficiency?
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[02:19:18] <pfred1> all I'm saying is steppers have break over points after which they're useless
[02:19:46] <Tom_itx> every motor has limits
[02:19:49] <cstop> so stay away from those regiemes
[02:19:55] <pfred1> yeah steppers just reach them sooner
[02:20:05] <Tom_itx> and they are cheaper
[02:20:14] <Tom_itx> you pay one way or the other
[02:20:14] <pfred1> you get what you pay for
[02:20:44] <emperordane> anyone have experience with a SCARA setup?
[02:20:53] <Tom_itx> i would love to have servos but i don't think it would be that practical on a sherline
[02:21:01] <cstop> is 100ipm such a limitation to any real work?
[02:21:15] <Tom_itx> sometimes yes
[02:21:20] <pfred1> cstop it might be if you have an 8 foot long bed
[02:21:39] <pfred1> go get a cup of joe while you're rapiding over
[02:21:59] <Tom_itx> or go eat lunch and come back
[02:22:00] <cstop> program the ops to avoid the long moves
[02:22:07] <pfred1> people seem to be going with racks or belts for that now though
[02:22:27] <cstop> and servosd take reduction units
[02:24:00] <emperordane> no takers for SCARA advice?
[02:24:16] <pfred1> if you add a B to it I've heard of those
[02:25:10] <pfred1> SCARA sounds like what the MOB does to you if you don't pay up
[02:25:43] <gene77> Question? Did the G43.1 and G49 TOL comp stuff get made specific to the G54-G55-G56 that is in effect when the G43.1 options
[02:25:54] <cstop> please define your view of SCARA
[02:25:59] <gene77> call is made in the last 2-3 days???
[02:26:29] <emperordane> @cstop, scara is a polar coordinate robot, with three thetas and a z axis
[02:26:54] <pfred1> emperordane like a hexabot?
[02:26:55] <emperordane> i'm working on an IBM 7575 and built motor controllers for it,
[02:27:27] <emperordane> not quite,
[02:27:28] <emperordane> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqOuaYxXRa4
[02:27:34] <emperordane> similar to that
[02:27:36] <pfred1> I said like not exactly
[02:28:14] <emperordane> gotcha
[02:29:05] <pfred1> oh that isn't liek a hexabot at all
[02:29:10] <emperordane> i've been having issues with HAL and scarakins, figured i'd send you folks a ping
[02:29:11] <pfred1> more like a puma
[02:29:17] <emperordane> yeah
[02:29:25] <pfred1> emc can run pumas
[02:29:59] <emperordane> yeah, there's also a SCARA example file, however tying to HAL has been tricky
[02:30:13] <pfred1> oh no one said it was easy
[02:30:27] <emperordane> haha, i hear that
[02:30:46] <pfred1> there is a video online some guy tied 3 strings to a washer and ran it
[02:30:53] <pfred1> its pretty cool
[02:31:03] <emperordane> i was just trying to see if anyone has successfully documented emc2 + a scara bot
[02:31:35] <emperordane> cartesian is documented EVERYWHERE, but there seems to be quite a bit less for the odd robots
[02:31:44] <pfred1> emperordane you can be the first
[02:33:07] <emperordane> haha, allready working on it, i've got an MK5 abs extrusion head and pretty well documented homegrown dc servo drives
[02:33:29] <pfred1> woo cool you made your own servo amps?
[02:33:38] <pfred1> I want to try that someday
[02:34:06] <pfred1> I want to do one more big stepper driver though
[02:34:15] <emperordane> they will be open hardware, you're welcome to borrow the design when i post them up
[02:34:23] <pfred1> like 7 amps and 45 volts
[02:34:26] <emperordane> ~50A 36v
[02:34:57] <emperordane> its for the IBM Scara, funky 90's servos
[02:35:00] <pfred1> the drivers i made are kind of worthless to build you can buy them for cheaper
[02:35:30] <emperordane> true, the experience part was kinda cool though
[02:35:40] <pfred1> but the plans are open source :) http://www.instructables.com/id/TB6560-Microstepping-Bipolar-Chopper-Stepper-Motor/
[02:36:18] <emperordane> aww man! thats awesome
[02:36:26] <pfred1> you can get a chinese 3 axis board for $22 today
[02:36:43] <pfred1> my drivers take about $10 an axis to make
[02:37:01] <emperordane> very cool
[02:37:13] <pfred1> but hey i know just about everything ther eis to know about the driver IC
[02:37:13] <emperordane> i'm at ~38$/axis
[02:37:35] <pfred1> most who buy them chinese boards end up blowing them up
[02:37:45] <emperordane> exactly
[02:37:51] <emperordane> i'm half way through documenting mine:
[02:37:53] <emperordane> http://transistor-man.com/theta0.html
[02:38:20] <cstop> I'm all for the industrial surplus when it comes to power comp[onents
[02:38:41] <cstop> Parker S-6 drives for steppers
[02:39:03] <pfred1> did you use discrete mosfets in your H bridge or a packaged unit?
[02:39:29] <cstop> at about $50 each (self contained power supply included!)
[02:39:35] <pfred1> some of them packages come with nice extras like disallowed state lockouts and delays
[02:39:37] <emperordane> discrete fets, i got a giant plastic tube of .9 mili ohm 40v fets from a dude
[02:39:52] <pfred1> yeah but some of the packages have nice features
[02:40:00] <emperordane> the driver was a IR half bridge driver though
[02:40:05] <pfred1> and they're matched better than discrete parts too
[02:40:07] <emperordane> exactly, lots of cool states
[02:40:10] <emperordane> er
[02:40:15] <emperordane> features
[02:40:22] <emperordane> like shootthrough prevention, etc
[02:40:31] <pfred1> yup they have delays
[02:41:04] <pfred1> I mean you can build all that stuff too but sometimes just pays to get the package with it all
[02:41:16] <emperordane> exactly, it saves a boatload of time
[02:41:34] <pfred1> well makes boards simpler construction easier design easier
[02:42:21] <pfred1> some of my earliest motor drivers i didn't understand modularizing so much so I really made a poor choice with them
[02:42:53] <emperordane> i hear that
[02:43:11] <cstop> poorer choice than a $10 chicom device?
[02:43:26] <cstop> real question
[02:43:27] <emperordane> i probably spent more time bread-boarding than it wouldve taken to just tie together a pcb (the route i took in the end)
[02:43:48] <emperordane> havent used a chicom device
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[02:44:12] <pfred1> emperordane you mean like this? http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8530/pict0787a.jpg
[02:44:47] <pfred1> the top of that board looks OK though http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1538/pict0783o.jpg
[02:44:53] <emperordane> oh gosh yes exactly
[02:45:01] <cstop> that is a real art work! ;-)
[02:45:09] <pfred1> cstop :)
[02:45:13] <emperordane> hahah
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[02:46:20] <emperordane> debug on something like that is always excellent
[02:47:02] <cstop> Hey have you guy got any good solutions to temporary pin connections both male and female? Db and "odd" sized?
[02:47:44] <emperordane> @cstop, you mean like pcb through-hole connectors or scope probe connectors?
[02:48:35] <cstop> seems like I'm forever sticking bits of wire in the females and shoving bits of paper between alligator clips on the males
[02:48:59] <pfred1> scissors
[02:49:05] <pfred1> just cut the ribbon cables
[02:49:31] <cstop> A universal Male pin scope probe is what is wanted. The probe being female
[02:50:23] <cstop> ribbon cables do not show themselves on servo motors or DRO scales
[02:51:12] <cstop> I suppose I should get a DB9 pin break out
[02:51:30] <cstop> Gender cahangers I have
[02:51:35] <pfred1> I made my own BOB
[02:51:54] <emperordane> i like these:
[02:51:57] <emperordane> http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/5016/5016KTR-ND/278887
[02:52:08] <emperordane> @cstop
[02:52:28] <emperordane> if you have a scope probe with a clippy thing they clip into that part
[02:52:37] <emperordane> the part would be surface mounted to a board
[02:52:41] <emperordane> that what you were looking for?
[02:52:44] <pfred1> cstop mine is a buffered parallel port board all you need is barrier strips and the connector
[02:52:46] <emperordane> there's through-hole variants
[02:54:22] <cstop> emp no, I'm talking about male and female pin plugs of all types and genders
[02:55:36] <cstop> for making connections for all types of power and signals DB connectors, MS connectors, DIN connectors ets.
[02:55:40] <pfred1> here is my ugly BOB in action http://i.imgur.com/HSUs7.jpg
[02:55:48] <pfred1> he only has one DB
[02:56:16] <cstop> pfred1 I have several cnc4pc C10 db-25 bobs
[02:56:19] <pfred1> I chopped up a riser cable out of a junk computer
[02:56:51] <pfred1> I have like a box full of the things was glad to make use of one
[02:57:16] <pfred1> tough things to put to any practical use you know?
[02:57:50] <cstop> just the other day I was working with a 30 pin MS servo motor connector...5v here, gnd and A+ A-
[02:59:51] <cstop> etc
[03:00:45] <emperordane> hm, @cstop, you could just use a pile of DB9 connectors, if you have more than 9 pins, just use more of them
[03:00:48] <pfred1> yeah if you don't have opposite gender plugs you can sacrifice I can see it getting tough to make temp connecitons
[03:00:49] <emperordane> they are dirt cheap
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[03:01:43] <pfred1> for my project I've standardized on barrier strips and individual wires
[03:01:59] <pfred1> cept for the P-Port cable
[03:02:07] <cstop> love those screw terms
[03:02:27] <pfred1> yeah bit of a pain to connect and disconnect but pretty flexible
[03:02:52] <pfred1> I figure once it is all hooked up I won't be taking it apart too often
[03:05:54] <clytle374> pfred1, so if I break file named X in Ubuntu, who do I find what package owns it so I can reinstall it?
[03:06:07] <clytle374> X=somefile
[03:07:20] <cstop> what did I hit that makes a beep at every key stroke?
[03:07:33] <cstop> irc thing
[03:07:42] <emperordane> what client are you using?
[03:07:55] <cstop> xchat
[03:08:37] <pfred1> clytle374 http://www.cyberciti.biz/howto/question/linux/dpkg-cheat-sheet.php
[03:08:56] <pfred1> dpkg -S {/path/to/file}
[03:10:10] <clytle374> thanks, Precise seems to have some include troubles.
[03:10:24] <clytle374> I fixed it the wrong way, the first time
[03:10:28] * pfred1 runs stock Debian
[03:10:34] <clytle374> Now to see if Linuxcnc works
[03:10:49] <pfred1> though today with Squeeze I can't wholeheartedly recommend it
[03:11:03] <pfred1> Lenny rox though
[03:11:37] <pfred1> I've been mulling over the thought of trying out gentoo lately
[03:11:44] <clytle374> I'll still take Gentoo anyday...
[03:12:02] <clytle374> Having a good toolchain is priceless
[03:12:06] <pfred1> yeah sometimes I do want the fine grained control
[03:12:26] <pfred1> who am I kidding I'm a total control phreak
[03:12:36] <clytle374> I love it when people ask what version of Gentoo I'm running
[03:12:58] <pfred1> but i have to say lenny is really close to my ideal
[03:13:27] <pfred1> I didn't have to tweak too much of it at all to be happy
[03:14:01] <pfred1> I have two boxes that run squeeze not to thrilled with either of them
[03:14:16] <cstop> ;whizzz...sound of "something" going over my head
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[03:15:02] <pfred1> I tried arch it is just too nuts and bolts
[03:15:23] <pfred1> like here have a bag of bolts try to get something to run with it
[03:16:02] <clytle374> well, Gentoo works real easy as long as there is an ebuild for the software you want..
[03:16:06] <pfred1> I do like dpkg
[03:16:13] <clytle374> If not, at least you have a good tool chain
[03:16:37] <clytle374> well, linuxcnc isn't going to work.. I went into the other room to find X is broken
[03:16:42] <pfred1> well i learned years ago that package management is the key to happiness
[03:17:12] <clytle374> Gentoo is the way they should all work
[03:17:17] <pfred1> I ran slackware long ago before it had any real package management and just about drove myself crazy trying to keep everything straight
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[03:17:48] <pfred1> it was overwhelming
[03:17:49] <clytle374> emerge and portage handle it very well imo
[03:17:59] <pfred1> yeah need something
[03:18:09] <pfred1> so then I ran RPM based systems for a long time
[03:18:28] <clytle374> me too
[03:18:45] <pfred1> when I finally came out of all that I ran ubuntu for a little bit then went over to full blown debian
[03:19:03] <pfred1> I'd run debian eons ago back in the dselect daze
[03:19:08] <clytle374> until you find you need the dev package of a bunch of installed stuff to get something else to work
[03:19:14] <pfred1> but never was too comfortable with it back then
[03:19:27] <pfred1> always gave it up for something else
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[03:20:01] <pfred1> like i ran Debian in 1997
[03:20:09] <pfred1> stuff was rough back then!
[03:20:34] <pfred1> I'd literally sweat during the install
[03:20:40] <clytle374> I had a BP6 mobo and a voodoo2 card..
[03:20:51] <clytle374> 2 cpus and direct rendering
[03:20:56] <pfred1> what do you mean if I have this I can't have that?
[03:21:11] <pfred1> it was a nightmare
[03:21:18] <clytle374> and sound and a working modem was happiness back then
[03:21:37] <pfred1> oh yeah way back I used to have the commercial sound drivers
[03:21:52] <pfred1> they were really good even years after my license expired they'd hook me up
[03:22:14] <pfred1> now sound just works
[03:22:23] <pfred1> cept on my new system
[03:22:40] <pfred1> I tossed an old soundblaster card in it and it works
[03:22:53] <clytle374> Looks like Ubuntu moved the header files, maybe I'll get the same failures this time.
[03:22:58] <clytle374> If I ever get that far
[03:23:01] <pfred1> I never got the onboard to work but i might have had the wires wrong or something
[03:23:43] <pfred1> well you can add an -I line
[03:24:10] <pfred1> or if it is a configure script there is usually a --with-include switch
[03:24:31] <clytle374> I couldn't build rtai
[03:25:00] <clytle374> bunch of headers point to /usr/include/bits but are really in /usr/include/i386-linux-gnu
[03:25:50] <pfred1> clytle374 there are the notes how I did a custom install on Lenny http://pastebin.com/cYYqyKPX
[03:26:06] <pfred1> I used like a half a dozen different pages of instructions
[03:26:16] <pfred1> each of them was a little wrong here or there
[03:26:46] <pfred1> other than my GL issue my box runs great though
[03:27:00] <pfred1> that I can't be bothered to fix
[03:27:20] <pfred1> it is just going to kill my performance on that hardware
[03:28:29] <clytle374> I wish mine would have failed with an error, jsut wouldn't run hm2.. lpt worked fine
[03:28:43] <clytle374> well, the latest update broke the desktop
[03:28:54] <pfred1> might be GL issue
[03:29:06] <pfred1> I run fluxbox
[03:29:23] <pfred1> about as stripped down and basic as they come
[03:29:50] <pfred1> the RAM died in that box and I ran X with 22MB of good RAM
[03:30:02] <clytle374> no errors in dmesg or Xorg.log
[03:30:10] <pfred1> it wasrunning OK until I tried to open up firefox
[03:30:19] <pfred1> you check syslog?
[03:30:31] <pfred1> that is where my errors showed up
[03:31:23] <clytle374> lightdm terminated, no idea what that is
[03:31:36] <pfred1> google is your friend
[03:31:43] <clytle374> of course I don't have the apparmor patches.. So I get errors
[03:33:19] <pfred1> RTAI sure adds new wrinkles typical Linux systems don't usually see
[03:33:51] <Jymmm> Not if you dont fuck with it =)
[03:33:51] <clytle374> My first rtai kernel and realtime passed all the testsuite
[03:34:05] <pfred1> Jymmm I don't run the CD image
[03:34:17] * pfred1 thinks it sucks
[03:34:17] <Jymmm> pfred1: Like I said...
[03:34:29] <pfred1> hell I know it sucks
[03:35:08] <Jymmm> Dont muck with it and use a computer from THIS century.
[03:35:33] <clytle374> It works good for what it does, I just like a more compact system.
[03:36:02] <clytle374> I'd also like to remove 90% of the drivers so people don't plug things into it
[03:36:06] <pfred1> Jymmm can your box boot up this fast? http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2250/wedoct27bootchart.png
[03:36:32] <Jymmm> pfred1: I dont care how fast a computer can boot, I never turn them off.
[03:36:45] <pfred1> it is one metric of system performance
[03:37:01] <Jymmm> and if I didn, I can go grab a cup of coffee, or take a shit.
[03:37:17] <pfred1> that isn't the point all that shit is screwing you all the time
[03:37:26] <pfred1> you just don't know it
[03:38:12] <Jymmm> I've been in IT for many moons, I know, I just dont care much of the time or toss out the old shit and ind something better.
[03:38:27] <Jymmm> s/ind/find/
[03:38:48] <pfred1> s/ind/find/;g
[03:39:27] <pfred1> sed - stream editor for filtering and transforming text
[03:39:34] <clytle374> I just started out building it since that is how you work a Gentoo system. Then I started to wonder what was going wrong
[03:39:41] <clytle374> Now I want to know it isn't me
[03:40:16] <pfred1> clytle374 one thing I've noticed is X has a video driver and the kernel does and they interact and different versions interact differently
[03:40:29] <pfred1> they're like layers
[03:40:44] <pfred1> I've had some combinations that didn't work
[03:41:06] * pfred1 is a retro Quake head so digs his acceleration
[03:41:07] <clytle374> yep, but what was causing my crazy failures.
[03:41:38] <pfred1> getting Linux to do accelerated GL isn't always 1 2 3
[03:42:10] <pfred1> but doing accelerated GL doesn't always work with RTAI
[03:42:32] <clytle374> My topic is Linuxcnc....... the desktop not loading is a diffrent problem I'm having right now
[03:43:01] <clytle374> It's not rtai.... I said the last update broke the desktop.. I went back to the default kernel
[03:43:07] <pfred1> clytle374 your desktop might be doing GL and you might be doing accelerated GL
[03:43:08] <clytle374> It's still broke
[03:43:37] <pfred1> what'd you do break your xorg.conf file?
[03:43:43] <pfred1> just delete it
[03:43:58] <pfred1> or rename it
[03:44:08] <clytle374> I didn't touch it
[03:44:18] <pfred1> well check and see if you have one
[03:44:23] <pfred1> and if there is anything in it
[03:44:34] <pfred1> it is about all that can break a generic X
[03:45:07] <pfred1> because other than that X autoconfigures to just work today
[03:45:44] * pfred1 remembers when that wasn't the case ...
[03:46:15] <clytle374> If it was X it would log an error?
[03:46:30] <pfred1> it should
[03:46:42] <pfred1> your X log should spit out WWs
[03:47:18] <pfred1> so you upgraded the kernel or what?
[03:47:51] -!- jtr has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[03:48:18] <pfred1> but sometimes X can break and not even know it
[03:48:27] <clytle374> I ran apt-get upgrade in hopes of fixing the include probelm
[03:48:47] <pfred1> ah so you really don't know what changed and did you in?
[03:49:12] * pfred1 does aptitude safe-upgrade
[03:49:22] <pfred1> hasn't did me in yet
[03:50:06] <pfred1> well safe-update upgrading is never safe
[03:50:08] <clytle374> No idea. "The last update broke the desktop"
[03:50:26] <clytle374> this is apt-get
[03:50:52] <pfred1> aptitude is part of dpkg well an add on for it
[03:51:03] <pfred1> it is the preferred front end today
[03:51:22] <pfred1> apt-get is archaic
[03:51:37] <pfred1> still works, kinda
[03:51:59] <pfred1> but users are urged to migrate to aptitude
[03:52:17] <clytle374> I'm starting to think that binaries are archaic
[03:52:19] <clytle374> brb
[03:52:42] <pfred1> yeah I've had deb packages that didn't work as advertised
[03:52:56] <pfred1> especially X itself
[03:53:19] <pfred1> was why I coiuldn't run Lenny on my i3 box
[03:53:35] <pfred1> it should have worked except that it didn't
[03:56:02] <clytle374> power grid is back up here, need to shutdown and reboot
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[03:58:51] <emperordane> @pfred, why is apt-get archaic? did i miss something
[03:59:04] <pfred1> emperordane ask the debian developers
[03:59:32] <pfred1> aptitude just does a better job today
[03:59:59] <emperordane> ah, never really understood the difference, i should look into it
[04:00:11] <pfred1> I think aptitude handles dependencies better than apt did
[04:00:40] <pfred1> but if you read their documentaiton today they say to use aptitude
[04:01:26] <emperordane> hm, cool, good to know
[04:02:01] <pfred1> least debian but I guess that goes for all distros that use dpkg
[04:02:34] <pfred1> I don't think any dpkg based distro uses anything modified from debian's tools
[04:02:50] <pfred1> they're just different repros with different system configs
[04:03:54] <pfred1> ubuntu is a hacked debian testing with their own secret sauce added
[04:04:29] <emperordane> gotcha
[04:04:54] <pfred1> so I'd imagine debian's policy rules as far as the tools go at least apply
[04:05:11] <pfred1> well policy guidelines
[04:05:32] <pfred1> they have rules too that just doesn't happen to fall into that catagory
[04:06:13] <pfred1> it is debian's rules which is why there are spliter distributions
[04:06:28] <pfred1> splinter even
[04:07:04] <pfred1> some of debian's rules are a royal pain in the butt too
[04:13:55] <clytle374> well the power is back on, I have rtai and Linuxcnc installed. But no desktop
[04:14:37] <pfred1> do you use a display manager or startx from the terminal?
[04:14:59] <clytle374> I was defaulted to lightdm
[04:15:04] <clytle374> auto login was on
[04:15:21] <pfred1> oh then your dm is broken
[04:15:49] <clytle374> yep, now why is the question
[04:15:57] <Jymmm> defective power.
[04:15:58] <clytle374> startx gives failed to load session "Ubuntu"
[04:16:02] <pfred1> wasn't that the error your were getting lightdm?
[04:16:10] <clytle374> yep
[04:16:25] <clytle374> my generator makes good power,
[04:16:48] <Jymmm> NO CLEAN POWER FOR YOU! NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!! s/The Power Nazi/
[04:17:16] <Jymmm> clytle374: you're off the grid?
[04:17:30] <clytle374> I was due to 8" of wet snow
[04:18:19] <Jymmm> Heh, I really need to make a raised portable shelter for my generator.
[04:18:34] <ve7it> Jymmm, had a good day today..... found a like new dishwasher on freecycle and fixed it by plugging in the control cable. Tore out the old DW.. it was rusted and leaked and smelled bad.
[04:18:35] <clytle374> Ours is in the garage
[04:19:14] <Jymmm> ve7it: Nice! We used to dumpster dive for things, found a DW once tested it with water hose =)
[04:19:55] <Jymmm> clytle374: I have a honda eu2000i, so need a portable shelter. I'm thinking tent poles and nylon
[04:20:05] <pfred1> clytle374 what version of ubuntu are you on and what window manager do you use?
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[04:20:29] <ve7it> I love the dumpster dive, but there is not much good stuff on this island... need bigger population centers
[04:20:41] <clytle374> Precise and gnome
[04:20:44] <clytle374> http://s706.photobucket.com/albums/ww70/clytle374/?action=view&current=DSCN2803.jpg
[04:20:47] <pfred1> yeah I'm out in the boonies no dumpsters here
[04:21:05] <clytle374> Here is what you need, if you think the power is going to be out long
[04:21:05] <Jymmm> ve7it: Yeah. Usually following the trash days helps
[04:21:54] <ve7it> Jymmm, you are in a great location for diving, but I have seen some mighty big rats in the bay area
[04:22:11] <pfred1> clytle374 Precise is their testing branch?
[04:22:18] <Jymmm> ve7it: many places have locked gates/dumpsters around here.
[04:22:21] <Jymmm> clytle374: http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu2000i
[04:22:33] <clytle374> yep, it is to be the new cnc release
[04:22:38] <Jymmm> clytle374: Can mod it to take gas/LP/NG
[04:22:54] <pfred1> clytle374 apparently you've been bitten by the unstable bug
[04:23:15] <Jymmm> clytle374: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNaGW5SOPas
[04:23:16] <ve7it> Jymmm, we used to have twice a year recycle days where you could put just about anything on the curb.... used to be a great way to collect printers and computers
[04:23:17] <clytle374> Mine will run motor oil, veg oil, about anything oily
[04:23:22] <pfred1> that is why testing branches are under test they're unstable
[04:24:02] <clytle374> I think I understand testing alright
[04:24:11] <pfred1> clytle374 I think the only thing you can do is update and upgrade until it works
[04:24:40] <clytle374> probably
[04:24:48] <pfred1> hope someone fixes it
[04:24:51] <clytle374> 2000 watts isn't much
[04:25:15] <Jymmm> clytle374: No, but can run any appliance
[04:25:23] <Jymmm> and is portable
[04:25:25] <clytle374> I'm using testing in hopes it failes the way gentoo did, then someone will need to fix it
[04:25:44] <pfred1> depends an induction motor will pull 600% amps on start up
[04:25:46] <Jymmm> I cna get a 2nd one and run in tandem, ther'es a special cable to interconnect two of them
[04:25:48] <clytle374> What about a stove, water heater, and well pump?
[04:26:12] <clytle374> Jymmm, yeah the inverter type generators are very cool
[04:26:13] <Jymmm> one at a time
[04:26:25] <Jymmm> stove == gas
[04:26:44] <Jymmm> it's not inteneded for full time use
[04:26:58] <pfred1> when the power goes out here i just go to sleep
[04:27:14] <Jymmm> and it's QUIET!!!!
[04:27:16] <clytle374> that's the difference. these are made to run months on end
[04:27:25] <pfred1> oh it is really quiet here
[04:27:40] <Jymmm> the generator that is
[04:28:06] <clytle374> You can't hear ours inside, I had to make that expansion tank for when it's under a heavy load
[04:28:20] <pfred1> when I go outside i don't hear anything
[04:28:49] <clytle374> 12hp single cylinder 750rpm diesels make a good thump under load
[04:29:24] <pfred1> sometimes people shoot guns here that is noisey
[04:30:00] <clytle374> why only sometimes?
[04:30:14] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwRo5kI7ve0&feature=related
[04:30:14] <pfred1> I donno seems to be a weekend thing mostly
[04:30:52] <pfred1> years ago was a lot more shooting now it has died off a lot
[04:33:11] <emperordane> @jymmm, how far north are you that you got 8" of wet snow?
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[04:33:37] <clytle374> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbpiYeCJbNs&feature=related smaller but same engine
[04:34:43] <clytle374> not bad for not having a proper muffleer
[04:35:10] <clytle374> emperordane, I got the snow.. Southern WV
[04:36:03] <emperordane> whaaaat, west virginia?
[04:36:43] <clytle374> yep
[04:37:48] <emperordane> the heck, boston was ~50-60's today
[04:37:52] <emperordane> (F)
[04:39:58] <clytle374> weather is like that
[04:41:44] <clytle374> four hours on 1 gallon of diesel, not bad. You'd almost think the 1940s technology works pretty darn good.
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[05:46:24] <clytle374> Well, I thought I was on the grid. It was just teaser power. Now they say we'll have power at 11:30 tonight
[05:46:31] <clytle374> 23 hours from now.
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[07:40:26] <DJ9DJ> moin
[07:49:00] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[08:29:35] <jdhnc> or something.
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[12:23:40] <skunkworks_> http://pastebin.com/EaXkaBqe
[12:23:54] <skunkworks_> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DIY-CNC/message/32029
[12:23:56] <skunkworks_> :)
[12:25:16] <Jymmm> its memberso only skunkworks
[12:27:08] <skunkworks_> I know. That is why I pastebin'ed it
[12:27:24] <Jymmm> *WE* dont know that though
[12:27:43] <skunkworks_> I think it sucks that some yahoo groups don't allow you to atleast read them without logging in..
[12:28:02] <skunkworks_> even mach allows you to read their groups!
[12:28:11] <Jymmm> it's up to the mods
[12:28:27] <skunkworks_> yep
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[12:32:19] <Jymmm> whos Steve Blackmore?
[12:32:59] <archivist> a bit of a prat
[12:34:07] <Jymmm> Is anything technical he's saying hold merit?
[12:36:16] <archivist> he is one who fails to listen and try stuff properly and therefore fails to learn that stuff can work, just not the way he tried (incorrectly probably)
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[12:39:24] <jthornton> that is one unhappy guy
[12:39:27] <Jymmm> Ok, O'll take your word on it. Sounds like he's not rating on emc as a whole and doesn't have an issue with servos, just steppers.
[12:39:45] <archivist> but steppers work!
[12:40:38] <archivist> I have not seen him actually notice nor complain about stepper acceleration curves though
[12:40:55] <Jymmm> Well, yes. But I've gotten better results with TurboCNC than I have with EMC fwiw.
[12:41:00] <jthornton> I thought he complained about everything
[12:41:05] <archivist> hehe
[12:41:21] <archivist> Mr Angry
[12:46:14] <archivist> iirc he did get banned from the MACH forum :)
[12:46:46] <mazafaka__> What a bastard
[12:47:00] <mazafaka__> :)
[12:47:31] <mazafaka__> He said bad of EMC, what a bastard :)
[12:48:06] <Jymmm> sigh, WTF! FF Update 8.x, 9.x, 10.x, and a few days later 10.0.2. Now I go to CHECK FOR UPDATE and instead of propting bme, it just goes ahead and starts downloading and no cancel.
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[12:52:59] <Tom_itx> it got tired of you asking
[12:59:03] <Jymmm> I'm tired of them not getting ti right the first time and wanting me to update. And FULL versions too?! What the hell is up with that???
[12:59:43] <Jymmm> Oh this is just too funny... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M4ocodNA5Q&feature=endscreen&NR=1
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[13:06:59] <Valen> where is this rant?
[13:08:15] <Jymmm> Valen: the link skunkworks pastbin
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[13:19:26] <Jymmm> Oh man, since I got the hose to connect my little heater to 20# propane tank, I'm lovin it! Just swapped tank (filled to 15#) after 18 days.
[13:20:10] <jthornton> hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go :)
[13:20:44] <Jymmm> jthornton: Gtab me a couple of diamonds while you're at it
[13:20:48] <Jymmm> Grab
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[13:21:39] <jthornton> no diamonds at this factory but I'll Gtab you a hose while I'm there
[13:23:13] <Jymmm> jthornton: Just make sure it's plasticizer free, 12ft will do nicely =)
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[15:57:42] <mazafaka__> old naked women from World Naked Bike Ride with their view really assert they are experienced and old with whole their view.
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[16:07:02] <mazafaka__> ...so you will obey just for not comprehending of the aging they are representing.
[16:10:12] <mhaberler> cool idea: http://web.media.mit.edu/~amitz/Amit_Zoran_home_page/the_freeD.html
[16:14:21] <archivist> having spent 100s of hours dremel in hand I can see where that wont work
[16:21:48] <A2Sheds> mhaberler: is this for people that refuse to or can't run 3d modeling or CAD tools?
[16:22:23] <mhaberler> it's great for artists with morbus parkinson
[16:23:10] <archivist> how do they get freedom if it overrides and pulls off!
[16:23:36] <archivist> and it could pull through the work volume
[16:23:41] <A2Sheds> you mount that thing on a robot arm and one could carve an object while doing something else :)
[16:24:18] <archivist> just get a normal dremel/spindle
[16:26:30] <A2Sheds> I know people that refuse to work on anything with automation or 3d modeling, they probably wouldn't like this either
[16:27:19] <archivist> I note the holes in the cup rim!
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[16:29:30] <A2Sheds> at 1:00 in the vid?
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[17:19:57] <frysteev> ola peeps
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[17:44:21] <frysteev> any people with hydraulics experence here?
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[18:01:03] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the world
[18:01:47] <IchGuckLive> 1 Day to go in Rio carneval
[18:02:32] <DJ9DJ> hi
[18:02:38] <IchGuckLive> B)
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[18:03:19] <IchGuckLive> 4 Milion People today at Germany carneval street parades
[18:04:45] <DJ9DJ> 4 mio crazy ppl ;)
[18:05:39] <IchGuckLive> yes Helau !
[18:08:35] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: hello sir, how have you been?
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[18:09:06] <IchGuckLive> fine and working around the clock for carneval !
[18:09:31] <kb8wmc> better you doing it than me....lol
[18:09:43] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: last night to stand
[18:10:02] <kb8wmc> ah, very good....rest after
[18:10:17] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: did you notice the new Heekscad and Librecad
[18:10:28] <kb8wmc> no sir, I did not....
[18:11:02] <IchGuckLive> all systems improved for area cut
[18:11:20] <kb8wmc> very very good....
[18:11:27] <kb8wmc> I will have to take a look
[18:11:30] <IchGuckLive> librecad does now make perfect polylines from lineArcs
[18:11:43] <kb8wmc> ah, gut
[18:13:16] <A2Sheds> they are directional boring out front right now, I wonder how often it's used to secretly tap into places?
[18:13:26] <kb8wmc> I am slowly learning to use heeks, I still fall back on acad, because it is quick for me
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[18:14:20] <kb8wmc> like trying to teach an old dog new tricks
[18:14:27] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: http://foengarage.de/fiat_logo_heeks.jpg
[18:14:35] <IchGuckLive> nice and working example
[18:14:38] <kb8wmc> thank you
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[18:15:04] <kb8wmc> very nice
[18:15:54] <IchGuckLive> librecad 2.0.0alfa2 will have all the acad icons
[18:16:08] <A2Sheds> I've only tried Heeks once, I usually use UGS or Solidworks
[18:16:46] <IchGuckLive> A2Sheds: with solidcam or mastercam
[18:16:53] <kb8wmc> ah, something familiar then
[18:17:12] <A2Sheds> mastercam
[18:17:33] <IchGuckLive> nice
[18:17:46] <A2Sheds> is Heeks getting better?
[18:17:52] <A2Sheds> actively worked on
[18:17:55] <kb8wmc> is the latest heeks and librecad found on their respective sites?
[18:18:15] <archivist> heeks is not very active at all
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[18:21:56] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: yes
[18:22:15] <kb8wmc> ok, tnx
[18:23:46] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: I am attempting to modify one of your codes for rectangular pocketing and insert it into ngcgui as a permanent tab....
[18:24:50] <IchGuckLive> linuxcnc 2.6 will have the G150 implemented
[18:25:10] <IchGuckLive> G12/13 also
[18:25:54] <kb8wmc> oh, very good...
[18:26:33] <IchGuckLive> as it is designed to move slightly to python there are as in Heekscad more people interested to do things for ther one neeed
[18:27:37] <IchGuckLive> as you emengent as kurve_funcs.py wars implemented the postprozessor explodet
[18:28:46] <kb8wmc> I am using 2.4.5 pre version
[18:29:15] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: did you see my modification for foamcutting
[18:29:28] <kb8wmc> no, I did not see that one
[18:30:05] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMo19ivradQ
[18:30:18] <kb8wmc> thank you
[18:32:55] <kb8wmc> very good....
[18:33:23] <kb8wmc> correction to my version info...2.5 pre
[18:34:29] <IchGuckLive> yea thats the version the devela are on
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[18:40:35] <IchGuckLive> Principessas de Rio carneval -> http://glo.bo/xI4ahh
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[19:25:38] <Jymmm> http://dornob.com/industrial-retro-adjustable-height-metal-scissor-lift-table/
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[21:01:51] <alex_joni> Jymmm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRVhooUQwrM
[21:03:04] <cradek> rock polka?
[21:03:24] <Jymmm> alex_joni: X X X
[21:04:23] <Jymmm> alex_joni: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXQYyKzyDaE
[21:07:24] <Jymmm> alex_joni: http://dc310.4shared.com/img/571564899/c42246e3/dlink__2Fdownload_2FgLk9OnUr_3Ftsid_3D20111006-181408-7663a1b8/preview.mp3
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[21:10:26] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XkAV7iQ634&feature=related
[21:12:04] <alex_joni> hahahaha: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wudV1c9jLKM
[21:13:33] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Dig that funky squeeze-box Romainian Boy!
[21:17:05] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Find this being played on an accordion and I'll be impressed... http://dc376.4shared.com/img/405183878/7d21a67c/dlink__2Fdownload_2FcmKO-YNP_3Ftsid_3D20110801-042303-fde0bef0/preview.mp3
[21:19:32] <alex_joni> 1m into the song, nothing really yet ;)
[21:20:21] <Jymmm> alex_joni: the best part ins the begininning anyway =)
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[21:41:00] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2YMEy-p2UeI#! omg
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[22:07:45] <craynerd> Hi, I asked this yesterday but then had to dash off line! Does anyone use a usb dongle that works ok out of the box (or easily!) with the ubuntu kernal on the latest linuxcnc livecd /download
[22:08:27] <cradek> what kind of usb dongle?
[22:08:38] <craynerd> sorry!!! USB wirless adaptor!!
[22:08:51] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:09:23] <craynerd> ok, will google that.. don`t know much about them but I have had a hell of a job trying to get this Realtek one to work
[22:09:30] <craynerd> still haven`t managed it.
[22:09:37] <cradek> check compatibility with ubuntu 10.04 lucid and/or kernel 2.6.32
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[22:10:45] <craynerd> I know this sounds lazy, but I`m sure a lot are compatable. This Realtek one has linux drivers but I can`t for the life of me get it running. I`m a linux noob but I`ve tried for hours! I just wanted to go on someone advice so know it`ll run OK.
[22:13:03] <craynerd> DJ9DJ: I can`t find anything for gn8 !!??
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[22:13:32] <archivist> wireless is the first mistake :)
[22:13:58] <craynerd> lol, I`m in my workshop basement and my router is upstairs so no chance of wired.
[22:14:23] <archivist> pfft, not far for a bit of wire
[22:14:55] <craynerd> long way to hide it from my Mrs!
[22:15:17] <archivist> I dont have that "problem"
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[22:18:06] <craynerd> why are wireless adaptors such a problem them with linux?#
[22:19:48] <JT-Shop> I don't have any wireless problems with Ubuntu, they are all plugged into Wonderblows computers
[22:19:56] <archivist> wireless is a home consumer market where win boxes live
[22:20:59] <archivist> for always on connections like I use wireless is just too unreliable
[22:21:39] <JT-Shop> Yippee the 5i25/7i77 have arrived for the BP conversion
[22:22:08] <archivist> hacking the VMC ?
[22:22:24] <JT-Shop> the knee mill
[22:22:38] <JT-Shop> has an Anilam 3 axis conversion on it now
[22:22:48] <archivist> I dont remember seeing that
[22:22:53] <JT-Shop> with a 286 computer :/
[22:23:08] <archivist> time it was done then
[22:24:30] <Jymmm> Plasma $12K http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/2856096532.html
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[22:47:28] <skunkworks__> have these gone down in price? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[22:49:48] <skunkworks__> or have they always been around that?
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[22:52:53] <JT-Shop> that is about what I paid for mine
[22:53:08] <skunkworks__> ok - I thought they where in the 79 or more range
[22:53:15] <archivist> I never took note of prices but that page claims a discount
[22:53:56] <archivist> look up a bit and you see Was: $84.99
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[23:09:30] <andypugh> craynerd: I don't know if you worked it out, but "Gn8" was him saying "Goodnight" before logging off, not a recommendation of an adaptor.
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[23:10:40] <andypugh> craynerd: I tried 3 different mini-PCI wireless adaptors, and none worked.
[23:11:13] <skunkworks__> get an access point
[23:11:14] <andypugh> Which is why I ended up using short wires to cheap WiFi routers.
[23:12:09] <andypugh> I have a WRT54G with an aftermarket firmware distributing to two other routers in various places using WDS.
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[23:13:21] * skunkworks__ has a ton of wrt54g's
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[23:13:37] <skunkworks__> for some reason - people sell them at rummage sales.
[23:14:14] <cradek> andypugh: huh, I didn't understand that either.
[23:15:03] <andypugh> The WRT54G is a good router, and runs Linux, and can be hacked.
[23:15:12] <skunkworks__> yep
[23:15:12] <andypugh> What's not to like :-)
[23:15:27] <cradek> I have also used routers flashed with openwrt or ddwrt: for instance my kitchen-closet printer is on one currently
[23:15:36] <andypugh> I use the "Tomato" firmware as that adds WDS.
[23:18:04] <cradek> I use openwrt for anything nontrivial, but dd-wrt if I want simple bridging (dd-wrt can run on the crippled 2MB devices)
[23:19:04] <andypugh> Does anyone recall the NML file change that was required? I was trying to use the V90 config distributed from the probotix website earlier, and it doesn't work as-downloaded.
[23:19:19] <cradek> just remove the out of date nml file
[23:19:53] <andypugh> removing the file gives an "I can't find an NML file" error instead.
[23:20:24] <andypugh> None of the files need execute permissions do they?
[23:20:43] <andypugh> (as it is a ZIP file, so will have lost them)
[23:21:05] <cradek> no
[23:21:12] <cradek> remove the NMLFILE= from the ini as well
[23:21:20] <andypugh> If anyone else wants a fiddle: http://www.probotix.com/downloads/V90_emc2_configs.zip
[23:21:34] <andypugh> Aha! I bet that does it.
[23:21:42] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UPDATING#emc_nml_changes
[23:21:51] <cradek> it's, uh, item 1.1 :-)
[23:22:11] <andypugh> Reading the docs is for gurls! I prefer to look like an idiot.
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[23:54:31] <andypugh> pcw_home: Did you get the chance to try the patch?