#emc | Logs for 2011-12-27

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[00:18:21] <archivist> FinboySlick, do less deep cuts with that tool length and thin ally over hang from vice, also you are climb milling you need a rigid setup for that
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[00:20:16] <FinboySlick> archivist: Yeah. I wish I had a shorter tool with enough flute length...
[00:20:34] <FinboySlick> Or just a hollow spindle so I could put more of the tool in it.
[00:22:11] <archivist> the first cleaning cut depth was ok
[00:25:20] <elmo40> very interesting technology they are working on: https://open.xerox.com/Services/imaging-demos
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[00:38:43] <tom3p> elmo40, Aesthetic Image Search ? or what
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[00:41:08] <elmo40> read the synopsis about it. 'what makes a good photo'. weird
[00:43:43] <archivist> most of my pictures are of things no aesthetics involved most of the time
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[00:50:39] <tom3p> the programmers nightmare: 'identify whats in the fotos'
[00:51:11] <elmo40> I wonder if something from there could be used with EMC2? take photos of objects for pattern recognition or something.
[00:52:39] <tom3p> there was some work done identifying hole centers by camera
[00:54:37] <tom3p> i stumbled upon a great 2 axis mechanism (A B), clever, its a machine that begs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujJu0uyY-8o&feature=player_embedded
[00:54:57] <tom3p> 'gimme'
[00:58:01] <elmo40> something more practical http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30rHCeLh1Ig
[01:01:42] <frysteev_> hi
[01:01:46] <elmo40> hi
[01:02:06] <Tom_itx> tom3p, this? http://www.miketreth.mistral.co.uk/centrecam.htm
[01:02:23] <frysteev_> who uses what gas for laser cutting here?
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[01:04:07] <FinboySlick> Hmmm, what's the g-code to make sure you're at destination before you make antother move? On deeper retracts, I'm notching the corner of my part.
[01:05:20] <elmo40> Tom_itx: exactly.
[01:05:38] <elmo40> FinboySlick: cnc mill?
[01:06:08] <elmo40> I believe G61.1 is accuracy control
[01:06:13] <FinboySlick> elmo40: Yeah, I think it's supposed to be G09
[01:06:37] <FinboySlick> elmo40: Oh... Hmm.
[01:06:45] <FinboySlick> G09 is 'exact stop check' in my old manual.
[01:06:46] <elmo40> g61.1 k##
[01:07:41] <FinboySlick> elmo40: OK.
[01:08:07] <elmo40> I think my old fanuc used P##
[01:08:13] <elmo40> so try either one
[01:08:25] <elmo40> maybe even a G61.1,K##
[01:08:27] <elmo40> add a comma :P
[01:08:37] <tom3p> chris eckert also built a tatooing machine, you strap your arm into it!
[01:08:50] <frysteev_> that sounds like fun :P
[01:11:09] <tom3p> Tom_itx, no, for emc2 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Axis_Embed_Video ( but i kept your link thx!)
[01:11:53] <tom3p> hey merry christmas everyone, bye!
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[01:44:20] <elmo40> nice. the woman was given a laptop for xmas, now she won't be using my rig :)
[01:50:04] <FinboySlick> elmo40: Just doing G61 worked. I went back to G64 for the actual cut.
[01:50:35] <FinboySlick> I also found out that a screensaver that locks the screen mid-cut is a bad idea.
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[01:50:52] <Tom_itx> :)
[01:50:53] <FinboySlick> Life's little lessons.
[01:51:54] <FinboySlick> I really need a better bandsaw. The mill shouldn't be doing this work.
[01:53:29] <elmo40> lol
[01:54:09] <FinboySlick> A place to put the bandsaw too.
[01:54:18] <A2Sheds> nice camera view
[01:55:04] <FinboySlick> EMC within EMC within EMC within EMC... Transcendental!
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[01:59:00] <elmo40> FinboySlick: glad the G61 worked out for ya
[01:59:58] <FinboySlick> elmo40: Yeah, thanks.
[02:02:14] <FinboySlick> Cutting an enclosure, so I can use coolant, so I can mill better.
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[02:10:59] <elmo40> cool
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[02:59:50] <geo01005> anybody know some alternative pinout names for the rotor terminals on a resolver?
[03:00:54] <geo01005> They are typically R1 and R2, but I'm working on a servo that has resolver/ absolute encoder interface.
[03:01:37] <geo01005> It has the following connections: 0V, S1, S2, S3, S4, R1, FS, SCL, SDI,SDO
[03:03:34] <geo01005> SCL, SDI, and SDO are definitely the absolute encoder digital interface pins, but I'm not sure about FS, and I'm not sure how 0V would work with a resolver.
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[03:12:16] <pcw_home> FS maybe Frame Sync (so SPI)
[03:13:01] <pcw_home> 0V maybe GND for SPI sigs (just a WAG)
[03:13:33] <geo01005> I suspect that the OV is for the SPI as well.
[03:13:34] <Tom_itx> ahh, SDO = Serial Data Out SDI Serial data In, SCL = clock
[03:13:39] <pcw_home> or maybe rotor is 0V and R1
[03:13:44] <Tom_itx> i suspect FS may be like a chip select?
[03:14:29] <pcw_home> Yes I' ve heard FrameSync used for SPI CS
[03:14:46] <geo01005> I'm not really interested in using the SPI interface in this case, I'm just trying to figure out the resolver stuff.
[03:15:20] <pcw_home> Probably need a (gentle) Ohmmeter
[03:16:13] <geo01005> There really should only be one pin that has a connection of R1, right?
[03:17:02] <geo01005> Please explain gentle in this case? are the rotor windings often very fragile?
[03:22:06] <pcw_home> No but the other signals may be delicate
[03:22:15] <geo01005> ahh, I see.
[03:22:25] <geo01005> I'll give it a try.
[03:24:47] <pcw_home> The question I would have is where is R2?
[03:24:49] <pcw_home> Typically a resolver will have the rotor pair and 2 stator pairs
[03:24:50] <pcw_home> all pairs are isolated from one another and the rotor resistance is lower than the stator resistances
[03:24:52] <pcw_home> (which will match each other)
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[03:47:51] <geo01005> hmm, interesting. 33 ohms between R1 and 0V, 330 ohms between each of the stator terminals.
[03:48:08] <geo01005> so I suppose I will use 0V as R2.
[03:49:33] <geo01005> also interesting to note that the two wires for R1 and 0V are .5mm^2 rather than .25mm^2
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[03:58:33] <pcw_home> also good to measure both ways to make sure you have a passive component
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[09:10:15] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[16:13:21] <Mjolinor> I need to set a multiplyer soemwhere in my conf files to get a correct spindle speed
[16:13:34] <Mjolinor> it is reading 700 when it shoudl be 10k or so
[16:14:33] <pcw_home> Input scale on spindle encoder?
[16:14:33] <Mjolinor> it is not in custompanel.xml, anyone tell me wher eit is and what it's clled?
[16:14:46] <Mjolinor> ok, Ill try that :)
[16:16:02] <Mjolinor> That's good, cheers
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[16:26:41] <awallin> anyone used this ? http://www.usovo.de/shop/Tool-Changer-and-HF-Spindles/Tool-Changer-Systems/WZW-Adapter-Tool-Changer/Kress-Toolchanger/Toolchanger-System-for-Kress-FM-6990E-and-FM-6901E::601.html
[16:27:54] <Loetmichel> awallin: i think that is nothing good.
[16:28:52] <Loetmichel> to use a kress as a drive for a toolchanger-spindle isnt what i would call reasonable
[16:29:20] <awallin> well it has the 43mm flange, but any motor could be fitted I guess..
[16:30:40] <Loetmichel> maybe if they would make a spindle with a AC motor on top...
[16:31:42] <Loetmichel> passend für FM 6990E, FM 6901E und Suhner UAD25RF
[16:32:01] <Loetmichel> passend für = fitting for
[16:32:12] <Loetmichel> the suhner would be a alternative i guess
[16:32:53] <Loetmichel> hmm, not really
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[16:33:59] <Loetmichel> not better than a kress
[16:35:16] <elmo40> morning blokes.
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[19:17:12] <Mjolinor> I have my spindle running from PWM, I have the revs coming back in. Where shoudl I be reading in order to make the spindle speed increase when I load hte motor?
[19:17:40] <Mjolinor> or will EMC do that automatically once it is actually doing something real?
[19:18:43] <archivist> do you have an encoder on the spindle
[19:18:59] <Mjolinor> i have pulses coming back into pin 11 on the parallel port
[19:19:38] <Mjolinor> not exactly an encoder, I am feeding hte voltage on the spindle supply through a low pass and a comparator to give me a pulse count
[19:19:50] <awallin> you need to add a pid component yourself in HAL
[19:19:58] <Mjolinor> using hte back emf to make a signal I suppose I am really
[19:20:09] <Mjolinor> do I?
[19:20:21] <Mjolinor> so I need to be reading about PIDs then
[19:20:42] <archivist> for true loop control yes
[19:20:53] <Mjolinor> ok, thanks
[19:21:13] <archivist> else use back emf in an analogue loop externally
[19:21:16] <awallin> but it might end up frying the motor, if you don't have a current limit on the drive..
[19:21:54] <Mjolinor> well both the ESC adn the motor can take more than my PSU will give so that will blow its fuse before it damamges anything
[19:21:59] <Mjolinor> in theory :)
[19:27:17] <Mjolinor> this brings back memories from many years ago at uni :)
[19:29:37] <clytle374> So rtai is dead and rt-preempt is taking over? didn't expect that.
[19:29:48] <clytle374> That makes the hard way even harder
[19:32:24] <skunkKandT> clytle374: ?
[19:32:58] <clytle374> or not? nothings been touched in rtai for 10 months, found someone say it is dead
[19:36:34] <skunkKandT> as far as I know - emc will be using it for its next lts release
[19:38:17] <clytle374> 2.5?
[19:39:15] <skunkKandT> the next emc supported OS - the next ubuntu long term support release
[19:41:46] <clytle374> they are working on rt-preempt, there is stuff for it in the tree.
[19:46:45] <pcw_home> AFAICR rt-preempt has substantially worse latencty than rtai
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[19:47:23] <jtektool> so 2.5 is ubuntu 12.0
[19:48:10] <clytle374> pcw_home, so what is going to happen? or am I wrong about rtai?
[19:49:48] <jtektool> <<<if rtai is stagnated i will let you know i have had problems patching 3.0+ kernels
[19:50:22] <pcw_home> I dont know whats going to happen but my guess is unless there is a real showstopper There really is no reason to change
[19:50:23] <jtektool> 2.6.37 i think was last supported kernel
[19:51:09] <jtektool> and even then theres problems with hostmot drivers
[19:51:43] <clytle374> hostmot drivers is a show stopper for me
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[19:52:26] <clytle374> jtektool, did you get 3.0 to patch? I was getting 2.6.37 right now
[19:53:12] <jtektool> you have to do a rewrite no
[19:55:39] <clytle374> I'm sure they can get rtai to work for 12.0, but in the future it'll be trouble
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[19:56:12] <jtektool> 12.04 looks coming in march-april
[19:57:05] <jtektool> someone has to take over rtai project....
[19:59:28] <clytle374> either that or rt-preempt might mature to work. idk
[20:00:11] <clytle374> pcw_home, btw, looks like you've been busy since I looked 2 years ago
[20:00:26] <clytle374> can't wait for a datasheet on the pendant board
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[20:02:26] <pcw_home> Yeah we are just getting the last details (the LCD support mainly) working
[20:02:27] <pcw_home> I'll probably work on the manual this week
[20:02:38] <jtektool> dont bother with 2.6.37 if your using hostmot 2.6.35.9 is last working
[20:03:33] <pcw_home> what is the issue with HostMot2?
[20:05:08] <jtektool> basically it wont even work
[20:05:10] <skunkKandT> if you are using the livecd - you have nothing to worry about.
[20:05:48] <pcw_home> Cant be too big a deal, theres not much connection between it and and any kernel services (maybe PCI discover or firmware loading)
[20:05:50] <pcw_home> both of those should be trivial fixes
[20:06:21] <jtektool> got to say 2.6.32-122-rtai as on live cd has worked best for me even after a recompile of emc and added in scicoslab/comedi and hart toolbox rtai
[20:07:01] <jtektool> brb...
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[20:11:09] <jtektool> back had to reboot
[20:19:02] <clytle374> pcw_home, want me to try 6.37 and see what happens?
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[20:27:24] <clytle374> PCW, want me to try 6.37 and see what happens?
[20:28:02] <PCW> Sure but I would just use the live CD unless you have a real need for a newer kernel (I'm sure all these issues will be sorted out for the Ubunto 12.04 LTS release)
[20:28:59] <clytle374> Is all the cool mesa support in the last CD?
[20:29:08] <clytle374> besides that I like to play
[20:29:24] <PCW> Well latest CD and upgrade to 2.5
[20:29:26] <clytle374> if I wanted my computers to work I wouldn't use Gentoo
[20:29:41] <clytle374> haha
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[20:31:06] <PCW> yeah I guess _some_ people like futzing with kernel builds :-)
[20:35:48] <clytle374> kinda like those people who like FPGAs?
[20:36:26] <PCW> I like them better than the TTL/DTL parts I started with
[20:36:54] <clytle374> very true
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[21:05:03] <clytle374> I've got a 5i20, 7i48, and 7i37 which leaves one free 50pin free on the 5i20. I can plug in a 7i44 and plug in 8 serial cards?
[21:05:21] <PCW> Yep
[21:05:40] <Mjolinor> is there a simple PID sample file anywhere, I cant find one in the examples included with the EMC install
[21:06:05] <PCW> PID for the spindle?
[21:06:12] <Mjolinor> yup
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[21:07:29] <PCW> There's an example on the wiki http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Closed_Loop_Spindle_Speed_Control
[21:07:31] <PCW> not sure how applicable it is
[21:07:46] <Mjolinor> looks good, thank you
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[21:09:29] <PCW> Note the thing about FF0 (basically if you have FF0 of 1 and all other terms 0 you should be the same as open loop)
[21:10:04] <Mjolinor> stop bafflin gme with science, I haven't got hat far yet :)
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[21:12:42] <clytle374> PCW, one more thing, they all work in hostmot2?
[21:12:55] <PCW> Yes
[21:13:26] <clytle374> do you sleep?
[21:13:46] <PCW> At work all the time
[21:14:08] <PCW> Close the door, take a little nap...
[21:15:05] <clytle374> that's why you get stuff done:) 2 years ago you were just getting the 7i48 working
[21:19:17] <PCW> Must be the naps (or maybe the fact that I dont do much of the work)
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[21:23:55] <clytle374> last time I looked seems like spi was going to be big, now it looks like RS-422 is the way to go
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[21:37:37] <skunkKandT> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/1040729-post58.html
[21:39:17] <cradek> HEY WHAT AN IDEA NOBODY HAS THOUGHT OF THAT OR TALKED ABOUT IT BEFORE
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[21:43:48] <clytle374> My favourite parts was "the real-time stuff is hopelessly intertwined "
[21:44:07] <clytle374> Are we handling the mouse in the servo thread.
[21:44:34] <clytle374> That was a joke btw
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[21:45:31] <cradek> it's true that if you expect to find a time-based queue somewhere where you can cut the string and insert your proprietary device in place of half of emc, you won't find such a place
[21:46:23] <cradek> so that might seem "hopeless" to someone who wants to change emc in such a way that paying them is necessary to use it
[21:46:59] <cradek> (but I should stop typing now)
[21:49:46] <clytle374> someone should tell him to use emc with a 2 core processor. Okay, not quite the same, but close
[21:49:57] <PCW> I could not stop myself...
[21:51:03] <cradek> PCW: incoming! duck!
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[21:52:36] <A2Sheds> which PCIe to EPP cards are the ones that work well with EMC?
[21:52:46] <A2Sheds> is it on the wiki?
[21:53:24] <PCW> That (AFAIK) is uncharted territory
[21:54:46] <A2Sheds> we have a low cost UV photopolymer now for 3dp, looking for the lowest cost solution for DIY + EMC to control 1 stepper motor and 2 limit switches
[21:55:30] <A2Sheds> only the z-axis moves
[21:55:58] <PCW> Someone on the forum used a 9901 based PCIE PP card successfully (bit banging)
[21:55:59] <A2Sheds> the PC would also send video to a DLP projector
[21:56:56] <PCW> My guess is the cheaper OXPCIE852 cards ($20 or so) should work fine as well
[21:57:01] <A2Sheds> several of the AMD APU boards have a GPIO port with 16 lines
[21:57:27] <PCW> but I have not developed enough ambition to buy/try one
[21:58:25] <A2Sheds> PCI slots should be around another year at least
[21:58:30] <PCW> Sure the GPIO should be fine for that, though simple driver would be needed
[21:59:49] <PCW> I expect they will be around a lot longer than that
[22:01:08] <PCW> I think ISA disappeared fast because its difficult to bridge
[22:01:09] <PCW> (you can still get ISA MBs for a price)
[22:01:25] <A2Sheds> http://code.google.com/p/miniemc2/ there's also this road
[22:01:58] <A2Sheds> but no VGA/DVI/ HDMI
[22:02:12] <A2Sheds> so it would only control the motion
[22:02:59] <PCW> There must be a similar SBC with DVI
[22:04:04] <A2Sheds> other options are "whatever PC" for video and USB for motion since it's not really real time, step the Z axis send video, blank screen, step z-axis, etc etc
[22:04:48] <PCW> Yeah probably cheaper in the long run (as fewer portability troubles)
[22:05:39] <A2Sheds> but I'm trying to get thousands of reprap people in here asking questions :)
[22:06:24] <syyl> the reprap people are a bit alternative ;)
[22:07:23] <PCW> USB PIC or AVR or whatever could do the steps
[22:07:54] <A2Sheds> see, I made it too simple
[22:08:26] <PCW> I this that strange Orange Juice 3D printer?
[22:08:52] <A2Sheds> the next version will step the dlp or part around for a larger print area, then it will be 3 axis of movement
[22:09:31] <A2Sheds> there are 3 or 4 dlp projects but they have all stalled out
[22:09:56] <PCW> But still always just indexing so almost anything will do for that
[22:10:07] <A2Sheds> they don't want to share or sell the photoplymer, so I made a few
[22:10:45] <A2Sheds> yes, pretty simple movement
[22:12:15] <PCW> Is this Blue/UV cured? Are Blue LEDS bright enough?
[22:12:32] <A2Sheds> the low end $300 DLP projectors are only 1280 x 720
[22:12:41] <A2Sheds> 385nm
[22:13:00] <A2Sheds> long UV just outside visible violet
[22:13:23] <A2Sheds> 5.6W 285nm UV LED is $150
[22:14:09] <A2Sheds> the other approach is what jymmm play with :) 256 UV led flashlights
[22:14:26] <PCW> wonder what the tradeof is from steering the beam to DLP/projector
[22:14:44] <A2Sheds> laser vs DLP?
[22:14:54] <PCW> (Yeah)
[22:15:18] <A2Sheds> $500 for DLP + LED, laser is much higher and far less safe
[22:15:48] <Tom_itx> what are you lookin for?
[22:15:59] <A2Sheds> otherwise it's synchronizing either a piezo mirror or spinning mirror
[22:16:29] <PCW> is the photopolymer even vaguely safe?
[22:16:45] <A2Sheds> some blends more than others
[22:17:21] <PCW> I know dichromate Jello is not a good thing
[22:17:21] <Tom_itx> oh is this that uv cured plastic?
[22:17:30] <A2Sheds> some monomers are not very friendly
[22:17:33] <Tom_itx> like the dentist uses?
[22:17:47] <A2Sheds> yes, very similar
[22:18:22] <A2Sheds> the dentist uses FDA approved blends so it cost $1k/oz
[22:18:31] <Tom_itx> no doubt
[22:18:41] <A2Sheds> our are $60 gal
[22:18:52] <A2Sheds> and are the same
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[22:19:06] <A2Sheds> i must be in the wrong business :)
[22:20:04] <PCW> So do they have a FDA person who blesses the polymer to make it worth 1K/oz?
[22:20:15] <Tom_itx> the pope
[22:20:36] <A2Sheds> I was comparing costs for different ways to control the video and up to 3 steppers and few limit switches
[22:21:08] <A2Sheds> FDA fairy
[22:21:32] <A2Sheds> probably 5-6 million in testing to get approval
[22:22:15] <A2Sheds> on the other hand some people would put depleted uranium into the mix to save a few $$
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[22:28:06] <A2Sheds> 1280 x 720 DLP at 0.1mm res is a 3d print area of 128 x 72 mm
[22:31:46] <PCW> Does sit need custom optics? (presumably the normal projection lenses are not optimally corrected for such a close target)
[22:33:17] <A2Sheds> nothing special
[22:34:51] <A2Sheds> http://www.chemshapes.com/ or http://3dlprint.com/2011/12/3d-printer-dlp-printing-with-uv-resin/ for examples
[22:37:59] <A2Sheds> the second links project reused the lens and just changed the spacing
[22:38:47] <A2Sheds> depends on the projector, but I'm swapping out the lamp for UV led anyway
[22:39:21] <A2Sheds> unless i find a dlp projector with enough 385nm
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[22:40:16] <A2Sheds> but the lamps die within a few hundred hours of use, the LED's last for 100K hrs if cooled properly
[22:40:30] <A2Sheds> and cost about the same
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[23:31:45] <testttt> hello
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[23:51:29] <JT-Shop> hmmm
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