#emc | Logs for 2011-12-18

[00:03:56] -!- theorbtwo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[00:04:06] -!- theorbtwo [theorbtwo!~theorb@] has joined #emc
[00:05:50] -!- Loetmichel has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[00:08:08] -!- Mjolinor has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:09:33] -!- Loetmichel [Loetmichel!Cylly@p54B15BDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #emc
[00:14:08] -!- JT-Shop has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
[00:21:03] -!- jthornton has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
[00:21:26] -!- i_tarzan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[00:31:30] -!- JT-Shop [JT-Shop!~chatzilla@216-41-156-59.semo.net] has joined #emc
[00:31:30] -!- jthornton [jthornton!~chatzilla@216-41-156-59.semo.net] has joined #emc
[00:31:38] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[00:33:43] -!- geo01005 [geo01005!~chatzilla@63-248-116-228.static.ogdl0101.digis.net] has joined #emc
[00:41:50] -!- Tectu [Tectu!tectu@kunsmann.eu] has joined #emc
[00:42:26] <Tectu> okay, i am searching how i do connect my drivers to the parallel port... i cannot find any informations in the documentation/wiki. may anyone help me please?
[00:46:23] <skunkKandT> what are your drivers?
[00:46:44] <Tectu> tought about self made l297&l298 drivers
[00:48:04] <Tectu> is it possible to use such drivers?
[00:48:56] <skunkKandT> like this? http://hans-w.com/9908-09A.gif
[00:49:18] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-115-146-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #emc
[00:49:18] <Tectu> exactly :)
[00:49:30] <skunkKandT> (that is one of many ways to hook it to the printer port..)
[00:49:54] <Tectu> yeah, where do i find the part in the emc documentation about hooking up?
[00:49:56] <syyl_> i heard that the l297/298 combo likes to die pretty easy ;)
[00:50:01] <Farthen> aren't those drivers max 3A or sth?
[00:50:28] <Farthen> yeah, those ics break easily. i tried them out once too
[00:50:36] <skunkKandT> tect
[00:50:41] <skunkKandT> Tectu: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/
[00:50:51] <Farthen> if you are really going that route, order at least to of each :-P
[00:50:57] <Farthen> *two
[00:51:10] <Tectu> Farthen, got 6x l297 and 6x l298 ;-)
[00:51:22] <Tectu> skunkKandT, yeah, that's where i am still searching
[00:51:23] <skunkKandT> read about step config q\wixard
[00:51:28] <skunkKandT> heh
[00:52:08] <skunkKandT> like http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_stepconf.html
[00:53:37] <Tectu> yeah, just tought that there may be some wiring shematics
[00:54:18] <Jymmm> I swear I still dont get why ppl build their own stepper drivers, they dont have mid-band compensation and other such features in them
[00:54:32] <Jymmm> they are NOT cheaper in thelong run
[00:54:37] <skunkKandT> Tectu: the link of the schematic I first posted shows how they hooked it up to the printer port,
[00:54:58] <Tectu> skunkKandT, looks like the url isn't some offical EMC documentation?!
[00:55:29] <Tectu> but i guess i can go with that...
[00:55:33] <skunkKandT> no... It really is outside of emc..
[00:56:24] <Tectu> hmkay
[00:56:32] <Jymmm> skunkKandT: Wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuht>!%@(@#&3)@$*%
[00:56:44] -!- Nick001-Shop has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:57:48] <skunkKandT> Hooking things up to the printer port - quite a few different ways to do it and is outside the scope of what could be documented within emc.. IMHO - but it is a google search away...
[00:59:39] <skunkKandT> good site for reference.. http://pminmo.com/
[01:01:22] <Tectu> thanks!
[01:01:47] <Tectu> do you guys have experiences with USB to Parallelport converters?
[01:01:50] <Tectu> do they work good?
[01:01:52] <Tectu> with emc.
[01:02:15] <skunkKandT> no
[01:02:43] <skunkKandT> they only work goodish for printing...
[01:03:43] <Tectu> are you kidding now or not? I have just my experiences with USB to RS232 converters, and well... depends on the usage, but some times 8 of 10 didn't work for some applications
[01:04:57] <freespace> no kidding
[01:05:01] <skunkKandT> not kidding
[01:05:04] <freespace> usb doesn't provide the kind of timing requirements required
[01:05:14] <freespace> this is why parport is used, despite its declining popularity
[01:05:32] <skunkKandT> pci printer port cards are cheap and work
[01:06:15] <Tectu> good to know
[01:06:17] <Tectu> thank you
[01:06:58] <skunkKandT> no problem
[01:07:11] <skunkKandT> what are you running?
[01:07:20] <Tectu> archlinux x86_64
[01:07:47] <Tectu> hopefully it works on arch
[01:08:12] <freespace> does it have an emc2 package?
[01:08:23] <Tectu> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=40145
[01:08:26] <Tectu> outdated
[01:08:44] <freespace> mmm, do they supply a rtai kernel?
[01:09:06] <Tectu> i don't know that.
[01:09:09] <freespace> emc2 will refuse to run without it
[01:09:14] <Tectu> oh
[01:09:18] <skunkKandT> I have heard a few that have used archlinux.. but I don't know how well supported it is
[01:09:34] <Tectu> can't i just compile from source?
[01:09:37] <freespace> they might supply it.. but if in doubt, use the emc2 livecd at first
[01:09:39] <skunkKandT> the ubuntu LTS versions are (10.04 being the latest)
[01:09:44] <freespace> the kernel? of course
[01:10:06] <freespace> but time compiling the kernel is not time milling :P
[01:10:11] <Tectu> i just burned the liveCD a few hours ago, running on a computer which has still parallel port on the mainboard
[01:10:12] <freespace> er, is time not*
[01:10:39] <Tectu> i have to wait until i get my aluminium profiles for the CNC, cannot do much things until then
[01:10:47] <freespace> ok
[01:11:02] <Tectu> well, milling isn't the main purpose of my machine
[01:11:05] <Tectu> just need a 3D printer
[01:11:15] <Tectu> and i came across the idea to build it also for milling PCBs etc
[01:11:20] <Tectu> that's why i took a look to emc
[01:11:30] <freespace> cool!
[01:12:06] <freespace> that's an interesting combination of capabilities
[01:12:11] <Tectu> yeah
[01:12:44] <Tectu> a friend of mine asked me to build him a real reprap, he just likes the conecept of selfreproducations. so i decided to build a "better" machine and print him a real reprap then ^^
[01:13:20] <Tectu> but i am pretty sure that i will mostly use it only for 3D printing and PCB drilling/milling
[01:15:46] <Tectu> freespace, emc documentations referes to archlinux, so it's possible neo-technical.wikispaces.com/emc2-arch
[01:16:10] <skunkKandT> Tectu: did you see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX-ZHNVqOgU
[01:17:31] -!- JT-Shop has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
[01:17:35] <Tectu> damn, thats pretty awesmome
[01:19:08] -!- jthornton has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
[01:22:16] -!- Nick001 [Nick001!~nospam@clsm-209-74-52-37-pppoe.dsl.clsm.epix.net] has joined #emc
[01:22:44] <syyl_> i like that process much more ;)
[01:22:45] <syyl_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Px6RSL9Ac&feature=related
[01:25:58] -!- DaViruz [DaViruz!~daviruz@62-20-182-212-no18.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #emc
[01:26:04] -!- JT-Shop [JT-Shop!~chatzilla@216-41-156-59.semo.net] has joined #emc
[01:26:09] -!- jthornton [jthornton!~chatzilla@216-41-156-59.semo.net] has joined #emc
[01:28:36] -!- geo01005 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[01:29:04] -!- rob_h has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[01:36:49] <MattyMatt> Tectu http://mendelmax.com/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=MendelMax
[01:40:07] <MattyMatt> that's a good compromise machine. it's belt drive so it's mainly a printer still, but the frame is stable enough for pcb milling
[01:48:41] <jthornton> seems to be too complicated for a pcb mill
[02:00:04] <MattyMatt> probably, but it's cheap to make. it only uses the basic tslot. all the gussets are printed plastic
[02:01:05] <jthornton> have you priced tslot lately?
[02:01:28] <MattyMatt> yep, found a place in UK sells it cheaper than misumi
[02:02:01] -!- Eartaker [Eartaker!~Eartaker@c-67-185-76-100.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #emc
[02:02:01] -!- Eartaker has quit [Changing host]
[02:02:01] -!- Eartaker [Eartaker!~Eartaker@unaffiliated/eartaker] has joined #emc
[02:02:36] <andypugh> It's not horribly expensive from RS. £13 for a 3m length.
[02:02:54] <jthornton> that ain't bad
[02:03:25] -!- skunkKandT has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[02:04:29] -!- geo01005 [geo01005!~chatzilla@63-248-116-228.static.ogdl0101.digis.net] has joined #emc
[02:05:34] <syyl_> hmm
[02:05:51] <syyl_> from paper to cad
[02:05:52] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/handrad1.jpg
[02:05:53] <syyl_> ;)
[02:06:24] <syyl_> will be machined from a block of plastic...
[02:07:22] <MattyMatt> £2.90 per meter from http://aluminium-profile.co.uk/acatalog/Aluminium_Profile_with_6mm_Slot.html
[02:07:48] <MattyMatt> same rexroth stuff RS sell
[02:08:03] <jthornton> oh that is tiny stuff then
[02:08:12] <syyl_> the profile is not the problem
[02:08:36] <jthornton> syyl_: that looks fun to machine
[02:08:38] <syyl_> but the angle conectors, t-slot nuts, screws, etc make that stuff pretty pricy :D
[02:08:55] <andypugh> jthornton: Yes, I was talking about the 20x20 (which I assume is what the reprap was using)
[02:09:07] <syyl_> i see a lot of chips in my future, jthornton ;)
[02:09:13] <jthornton> yea, if you don't make all your fittings your out a lot
[02:09:24] <MattyMatt> the connectors are all printed plastic (so this isn't really a good printer to build first ;)
[02:09:25] <jthornton> 20mm x 20mm?
[02:09:55] <andypugh> syyl_: The single-screw connection method is pretty cheap and easy, you just need to drill one hole to give you access to the screw heads.
[02:10:03] <MattyMatt> 20x20 is better than the 8mm allthread the others are made from
[02:10:41] <syyl_> yea andypugh, but a bitch to assemble ;)
[02:10:52] <syyl_> everthink wants to move, rotate and slide away
[02:10:58] <MattyMatt> t nuts are £3 for 10 at that place, so that's not so bad
[02:11:14] <jthornton> crap found another broken one
[02:11:19] <andypugh> syyl_: I enjoy the challenge :-)
[02:11:25] <syyl_> ;)
[02:11:59] <syyl_> simplest way are that cast angles...but they look not too good..
[02:12:34] <MattyMatt> I can't judge, I haven't made one
[02:12:48] <syyl_> btw, opened the mpg encoder
[02:12:49] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-12-18_02-35-23_284.jpg
[02:12:52] <syyl_> pretty simple ;)
[02:13:01] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-12-18_02-35-39_581.jpg
[02:14:43] <MattyMatt> looks like 100 slots in the encoder. I guessed 25
[02:15:02] <syyl_> jep, 100
[02:16:01] <MattyMatt> I found my optical mouse hoard last night, so I'm gonna be making on of those RSN
[02:16:30] -!- LawrenceSeattle [LawrenceSeattle!~lawrence@] has joined #emc
[02:18:53] <MattyMatt> now is the detent done? I don't see the wear you'd expect from a sprung ball
[02:19:24] <syyl_> its a springloaded upright pin that engages the gear
[02:25:22] <MattyMatt> nice to see inside a real one before I start :) thanks for that pic
[02:25:43] <syyl_> no problem ;)
[02:26:24] <syyl_> hmm
[02:26:29] <syyl_> looking for the right buttons
[02:27:04] <syyl_> water/swarf proof
[02:27:49] <MattyMatt> http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/aux/
[02:28:18] <syyl_> hmm
[02:28:34] <syyl_> a bit high on price ;D
[02:28:38] <syyl_> but cool looking
[02:28:46] -!- sumpfralle1 [sumpfralle1!~lars@f054036168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #emc
[02:30:56] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[02:31:53] <andypugh> I think you could make a perfectly good MPG with a steel gear, two prox sensors and a magnet to give a detente on each tooth.
[02:32:00] <MattyMatt> you could get the full keyb (€1422) to run blender and you'd still be ahead over a max/maya workstation
[02:32:35] <MattyMatt> andypugh: isn't that a stepper in reverse? :)
[02:33:09] <andypugh> Good point, you can make an MPG from a stepper.
[02:33:25] <MattyMatt> I have some schmitt triggers I don't need. I might play with that
[02:33:52] <syyl_> now...i buit an encoder..
[02:34:00] <syyl_> could be also used as a mpg i think
[02:34:07] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-12-10_22-04-13_702.jpg
[02:34:38] <MattyMatt> I guess it'd need the same fat back-emf diodes it need when being driven
[02:34:47] <jthornton> syyl_: nice
[02:34:48] <andypugh> For an MPG a laser-printed target would be fine.
[02:35:15] <syyl_> it even gives a nice signal :D
[02:35:15] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-12-10_23-56-47_216.jpg
[02:35:50] <MattyMatt> most of the cost of that mpg one is the shiny knob
[02:36:02] <MattyMatt> I'll make that part first
[02:36:03] -!- geo01005 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[02:36:30] <syyl_> thats the most important part :)
[02:36:57] <MattyMatt> 100 divs I can do (still using stepper-in-a-vice as 4th axis)
[02:50:31] -!- skunkworks_ [skunkworks_!~chatzilla@str-bb-cable-south2-static-6-425.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #emc
[02:59:49] -!- andypugh has quit [Quit: andypugh]
[03:13:25] -!- The_Ball has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[03:14:51] -!- The_Ball [The_Ball!~The_Ball@] has joined #emc
[03:31:20] -!- syyl_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[03:55:24] -!- ve7it has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[04:14:19] -!- geo01005 [geo01005!~chatzilla@63-248-116-228.static.ogdl0101.digis.net] has joined #emc
[04:33:19] -!- FinboySlick [FinboySlick!~FinboySli@squal.net] has joined #emc
[04:36:49] <FinboySlick> Anyone with EMC-specific g-code tutorial links handy. I'm mostly looking for hand-coding bits.
[04:38:05] -!- geo01005 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[04:47:07] <elmo40> anything in perticular?
[04:48:54] <elmo40> and i dont think there is an EMC specific g-code. It handles virtually anything ;)
[04:51:30] <FinboySlick> elmo40: Just basic setup of a program/part. I only really used CAM and it didn't give me any problems yet but there are some very basic cuts that I'd rather setup by hand.
[04:52:45] <FinboySlick> I'm building the enclosure that will let me use the mill without completely messing up the house.
[04:53:07] <elmo40> makes other people happy when you do that ;)
[04:53:56] <elmo40> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Example_G-Code_Programs
[04:54:17] <elmo40> those are far from 'simple' :-P
[04:55:29] <elmo40> interesting stats ;)
[04:55:34] <FinboySlick> Well, I have good computer skills, the complexity of the code itself isn't really what concerns me. I'm more concerned with the 'proper' way of doing things. Bits that I ought not to forget to avoid crashing.
[04:55:36] <elmo40> but i think it needs to be updated http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Top_200_Link_In_Emc_Irc_Channel
[04:56:35] -!- geo01005 [geo01005!~chatzilla@63-248-116-228.static.ogdl0101.digis.net] has joined #emc
[05:07:19] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: take a look at G1 to just get the hang of moving each axis around
[05:08:21] <A2Sheds> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators try some of these generators and look at what they output
[05:10:27] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Yeah, that's fairly straightforward. Do I always have to factor in the tool diameter in every move or is this something I define first and then not worry about?
[05:11:37] <A2Sheds> are you going to define more than one tool?
[05:12:15] <A2Sheds> there was some gcode tutorial somewhere
[05:12:19] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Not planning to yet, this is for simple cuts.
[05:12:57] <A2Sheds> started out with simple movements and then added complexity
[05:13:16] <FinboySlick> As I said, figuring out what each instruction does is not what I'm most worried about. I'm looking to understand more of the program setup and finish phases.
[05:13:34] <A2Sheds> does MasterCAM have a demo version?
[05:13:55] <FinboySlick> Like moving to z0 before I return to x0 z0 at the end, etc.
[05:14:04] <toastyde1th> mastercam's learning curve resembles a high cliff
[05:14:19] <toastyde1th> it does have student licenses, iirc
[05:14:24] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: CAM-wise, I'd consider myself set.
[05:15:00] <FinboySlick> But I don't want to just rely on CAM for everything I do.
[05:15:04] <toastyde1th> FinboySlick, if you are using cutter comp you don't really care much about tool diameters.
[05:15:33] <toastyde1th> you just have to make sure your entrance and exit moves are sufficiently long to allow the cutter comp to fully engage
[05:15:43] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: G40-G42?
[05:15:47] <toastyde1th> yes
[05:16:07] <elmo40> oh boy... starting from scratch, are we?
[05:16:25] <FinboySlick> elmo40: Yes.
[05:16:59] <A2Sheds> http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCCNCGCodeBasics.htm
[05:17:17] <A2Sheds> http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCCNCGCodeCourse.htm
[05:17:36] <elmo40> if you are using standard size tools you can adjust your toolpath manually. Making a 1" hole with a 0.25" cutter, you use a radius of .375 Simple enough ;)
[05:17:58] <FinboySlick> elmo40: Yeah.
[05:18:08] -!- sumpfralle1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[05:18:13] <A2Sheds> http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCVideosHome.htm
[05:18:17] <elmo40> it is rather simple math for simple shapes. making an encloser *should* be simple shapes.
[05:18:33] <FinboySlick> elmo40: Oh they're all simple straight cuts.
[05:19:24] <FinboySlick> elmo40: I'm using the mill instead of an angle saw just for the sake of learning some code by hand.
[05:19:40] <A2Sheds> http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCGWizardE.html
[05:22:24] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Hehe, well you filled my plate for the night.
[05:23:39] <A2Sheds> long night ahead
[05:24:56] <A2Sheds> I use gcode in odd ways since I'm not using tools or interlacing passes in non-linear movements
[05:29:04] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Their speed and feed video is awesome.
[05:29:45] <A2Sheds> printers scan in interlaced wave patterns to eliminate banding or hide/avoid moire patterns
[05:30:46] -!- geo01005 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[05:51:04] -!- psha [psha!~psha@] has joined #emc
[05:57:19] -!- OpenSpace has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[06:03:15] -!- geo01005 [geo01005!~chatzilla@63-248-116-228.static.ogdl0101.digis.net] has joined #emc
[06:08:15] <MattyMatt> A2Sheds I thought printers interlaced because they could only get the pins/nozzles so close together
[06:08:41] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[06:08:54] -!- geo01005 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[06:14:51] <MattyMatt> argh I haven't used my lovely new metric tap & die set yet but I want a 3/8" * 24 tpi die (jacobs chuck)
[06:15:26] <MattyMatt> I need to cnc my lathe asap
[06:18:32] <MattyMatt> threadmaking in UK can get expensive without one
[06:19:08] <FinboySlick> MattyMatt: I hear everything is expensive in the UK except politicians ;)
[06:20:56] <MattyMatt> that's just a word for anyone on twitter
[06:25:46] -!- geo01005 [geo01005!~chatzilla@63-248-116-228.static.ogdl0101.digis.net] has joined #emc
[06:35:17] -!- geo01005 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[06:42:22] -!- Eartaker has quit [Quit: By the time you read this I'll already be gone....]
[06:43:13] -!- Calyp has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[07:14:52] -!- FinboySlick has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
[07:16:20] -!- Eartaker [Eartaker!~Eartaker@unaffiliated/eartaker] has joined #emc
[08:16:14] -!- the_wench has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[08:20:58] -!- psha has quit [Quit: leaving]
[08:34:23] -!- acemi [acemi!~acemi@unaffiliated/acemi] has joined #emc
[09:05:33] -!- skunkworks_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[09:22:57] -!- Mjolinor [Mjolinor!~Mjolinor@cpc1-burn3-0-0-cust572.10-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #emc
[09:24:45] -!- LawrenceSeattle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[09:24:59] -!- LawrenceSeattle [LawrenceSeattle!~lawrence@] has joined #emc
[09:28:03] -!- skunkworks_ [skunkworks_!~chatzilla@str-bb-cable-south2-static-6-425.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #emc
[09:51:30] -!- Eartaker has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[10:10:18] -!- geo01005 [geo01005!~chatzilla@63-248-116-228.static.ogdl0101.digis.net] has joined #emc
[10:12:19] -!- OpenSpace [OpenSpace!~ja@77-46-182-248.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #emc
[10:13:13] -!- theorb [theorb!~theorb@] has joined #emc
[10:16:12] -!- rob_h [rob_h!~rob_h@5ace7094.bb.sky.com] has joined #emc
[10:17:22] -!- theorbtwo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[10:17:32] theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[10:20:47] -!- geo01005 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[10:29:11] <Loetmichel> mornin
[10:29:19] <Mjolinor> corrrect
[10:29:33] <Mjolinor> and a good morning to you too
[10:29:37] <Mjolinor> we hve lots of snow
[10:33:54] -!- OpenSpace has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[10:36:04] * Loetmichel has lots of work
[10:36:16] <Mjolinor> with the new spindle?
[10:36:31] <Mjolinor> is that working OK now, all plumbed in for hte cooling or still on a bottle?
[10:37:02] <Loetmichel> why i am sitting on my private mill doing work for a company which has given me the pink slip to 31.01.12 i cant tell, though
[10:37:29] <Mjolinor> because you are a geek
[10:37:34] <Mjolinor> same as everyone on here
[10:38:09] <Mjolinor> and anyway as a comparison I have spent 1 year and 3 months designing soemthing for a company that has not paid me for 2 years
[10:38:19] <Mjolinor> and they owe me over 200k
[10:40:08] <Loetmichel> more because i said i'll do it before the boss has fired me...
[10:40:25] <Mjolinor> :)
[10:40:26] <Loetmichel> and I tend to stand by my word.
[10:40:29] <Mjolinor> thats a valid reason too
[10:40:56] <Mjolinor> if the company don't want your services then you don't want to work their and they don't deserve your abilities
[10:41:16] <Mjolinor> are you going to go out and find another job?
[10:41:20] <Loetmichel> yes
[10:41:30] <Mjolinor> do oyu think you will find one locally?
[10:41:32] <Loetmichel> after new year
[10:41:35] <Mjolinor> where are you?
[10:45:25] <Loetmichel> germany, Offenbach, near frankfurt am main
[10:46:34] <Mjolinor> I think it is going to get very bad in most of europe
[10:46:43] -!- OpenSpace [OpenSpace!~ja@178-223-230-215.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #emc
[10:46:56] <Mjolinor> there are now too many people, too high a % of the working populaiton, in "make work"
[10:47:17] <Mjolinor> where they contribute nothing and are jsut a bleed on the people that produce real things
[10:47:27] <Mjolinor> and it is going to cause soem serious problems
[10:47:47] <Loetmichel> as for the plumbing: http://www.cyrom.org/pce/actual_work.avi
[10:49:55] <Mjolinor> does the water have glycol in?
[10:50:01] <Mjolinor> or maybe you jsut like pink
[10:50:29] <Loetmichel> tahts an additive for car cooling systems
[10:50:42] <Loetmichel> so i think it has glycol in it, yes
[10:50:53] <Mjolinor> what is it cutting?
[10:51:03] <Loetmichel> especially for aluminium motors
[10:51:17] <Loetmichel> 12mm Polycarbonate (Makrolon)
[10:51:41] <Mjolinor> it amazes me how much money plastics are
[10:52:06] <Mjolinor> I suppose it is because if I want metal to make soemthign then I can usually find it but if I want plastic there is no way, it has to be bought
[10:53:24] <Loetmichel> more like: plastics are patented, metals cant be (special Alloys maybe)
[10:53:41] <Mjolinor> that too I suppose
[10:53:59] <Mjolinor> plastics are complicated too, a lotmore difficult to know what to buy
[10:54:11] <Loetmichel> *bah* the PC chips EVERYWHERE... i have to build a housing fpr the mill soon ;-)
[10:54:20] <Mjolinor>
[10:54:25] <Mjolinor> I need to make that from plastic
[10:54:55] <Mjolinor> if you talk to 10 people that use plastic then you will get 10 different sorts of plastic that it needs to be made fomr
[10:55:04] * Loetmichel has some 2 components Resin for that...
[10:55:33] <Loetmichel> if i in DESPERATE need of som plastics i simply get a suitable container, and pour me a block ;-)
[10:55:47] <Mjolinor> :) that works
[10:55:50] <Mjolinor> but not cheap
[10:56:05] <Loetmichel> ... having a hardening time of 2 min it isnt TOO long a wait :-)
[10:56:20] <Loetmichel> its ok, its about 20 eur for 2 kg
[10:56:49] <Loetmichel> (26$ or so)
[10:57:01] <Mjolinor> hmm, the last lot I bought like that was £100
[10:57:15] <Mjolinor> polyethyleneamines
[10:57:31] <Loetmichel> the resin i have here is Polyurethane
[10:57:35] <Loetmichel> non-foaming
[10:57:38] <Mjolinor> most fo the stuff I need is to go on medium voltage lines
[10:57:47] <Mjolinor> so the electrical characteristics are the most important
[11:00:28] <Loetmichel> the thing i am milling at the moment will be This one:
[11:00:45] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10877
[11:00:49] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10880
[11:00:55] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10883
[11:00:59] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10886
[11:01:48] <Loetmichel> just in clear plastics
[11:02:48] <Mjolinor> that is a lot of work for a usb extecnsion lead
[11:03:31] <Loetmichel> (its for a shielded PC, to plug in a flashdrive ansSTILL close the shielded front door) ;-)
[11:03:46] <Loetmichel> it fits in a drive bay
[11:03:56] <Mjolinor> ok
[11:05:14] <Loetmichel> and since its a single PC it would be overly expensive to let it be made somwhere
[11:05:43] <Loetmichel> so i agreed to make it myself, like the prototype on the photos
[11:06:40] <Loetmichel> ... like the other 6 items un my "to do" list here ;-)
[11:06:48] <Mjolinor> only 6
[11:07:02] <Loetmichel> hihi, yes
[11:07:02] -!- skunkworks_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[11:07:08] <Mjolinor> wait till you get in your 50s, to do lists get longer and never shorter
[11:07:18] <Loetmichel> 2 items i have already marked out
[11:07:35] <Loetmichel> 6 items for this weekend
[11:07:39] <LawrenceSeattle> I've heard I can't use a USB to parallel port converter for EMC. Is that true?
[11:08:09] <Loetmichel> LawrenceSeattle: thats right because usb has a round trip time of about a second or so
[11:08:20] <LawrenceSeattle> eek
[11:08:25] <LawrenceSeattle> really that slow?
[11:08:25] <Loetmichel> and you want a little faster than 1 step a second ;-)
[11:08:34] <Loetmichel> worst case yes
[11:08:42] <Mjolinor> and because USB parallel ports often do not allow individual control of bits, they will only allow bytes back anf forth
[11:08:52] <Loetmichel> usb kann transfer MUCH data but is not designed for realtime
[11:09:04] <LawrenceSeattle> are there any usb options for EMC2?
[11:09:10] <LawrenceSeattle> I do have a reprap board...
[11:09:19] <Mjolinor> there is a USB <> parallel port made specifically for bit baching by an RC group
[11:09:35] <Mjolinor> if oyu google mm2001 you will get seom hits on it
[11:10:34] <LawrenceSeattle> thx
[11:10:52] <Mjolinor> I don't know if oyu can buy one though or if it is a home made thing only
[11:11:12] <Mjolinor> and problay you need to understand french :) as it is a french group I think
[11:11:33] <LawrenceSeattle> heh
[11:11:49] <LawrenceSeattle> I built a reprap board. I bet an EMC board isn't much different
[11:12:09] <Mjolinor> I suspect it is a whole lot simpler actually
[11:12:11] <LawrenceSeattle> wonder if I can just make that work
[11:12:56] <Mjolinor> I think it depends on what you are trying to do with it
[11:13:20] <Mjolinor> the rep rap for sure ahs 3 axes XYZ control
[11:13:32] <Mjolinor> and a binary switch ciruit for the heater
[11:13:33] <Mjolinor> I think
[11:15:29] <LawrenceSeattle> I want to build a PCB mill
[11:16:08] <Mjolinor> so as long as it is a small one then the reprap boourd should do it
[11:16:17] <LawrenceSeattle> reprap boards have 4 axes, and 3 fets typically
[11:16:39] <Mjolinor> IIRC they only use small steppers so that is problay where your capabilities are defined
[11:16:50] <LawrenceSeattle> but the GCode processing happens in firmware. would that be compat with EMC?
[11:17:04] <LawrenceSeattle> is there a way to make it work?
[11:17:08] <Mjolinor> but it is surely less work to find a parallel port board that will work
[11:17:16] <Mjolinor> the PCI ones are generally OK
[11:17:16] <LawrenceSeattle> it'll do 2A per
[11:17:42] <LawrenceSeattle> would be nice to make this work as I have 8 spare reprap PCBs :)
[11:17:47] <Mjolinor> and you soudl be using a desktop PC anyway, laptops do not do the RT kernel too well according to what I have read
[11:18:11] <LawrenceSeattle> ah ok
[11:20:44] -!- OpenSpace has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[11:22:12] -!- skunkworks_ [skunkworks_!~chatzilla@str-bb-cable-south2-static-6-425.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #emc
[11:22:20] <Mjolinor> if the gcode processing is in firmware then there may be codes you need that are not processed by the rep rap I suppose
[11:22:49] <Mjolinor> spindle speed control being hte one that seems most likely to be missing
[11:24:25] -!- Calyp [Calyp!~Caly@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm] has joined #emc
[11:25:08] <cpresser> Mjolinor: usb-parallel will not work since usb has no realtime capabilities. even if you got bit-bang-mode, you wont get good results
[11:25:22] <Mjolinor> I knwo that?
[11:25:31] <Mjolinor> I was jsut saying there is one specifically designed
[11:25:53] <cpresser> ah sorry, i just wanted to make sure. since you mentioned that thing
[11:26:57] * Mjolinor thinks typical google, laods of hits for usb parallel when searching for other things but nothing when searchign for usb parallel
[11:32:46] <Mjolinor> http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.aeropassion.net/jedicut-guide/USB-MM2001.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.aeropassion.net/jedicut-guide/USB-MM2001-et-decoupe-CNC.php&h=295&w=400&sz=54&tbnid=xpgHxjBES2e7fM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=122&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmm2001%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=mm2001&docid=GJRlPR0jn-j-YM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ts_tTuCaL4ej8gPemoD4CQ&ved=0CCUQ9QEwAQ
[11:32:59] <Mjolinor> that is a picture of it connected to a parallel port mm2001
[11:33:36] -!- OpenSpace [OpenSpace!~ja@178-223-215-222.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #emc
[11:43:37] -!- ewidance [ewidance!~ewidance@montpellier.civade.com] has joined #emc
[12:00:12] <Mjolinor> interesting find today, the CCD in optical mice produces quadratue signasl so its jsut as easy to make a pendant with an optical mouse as it is with a ball mouse
[12:17:35] -!- ewidance has quit [Quit: ewidance]
[12:58:02] -!- UncleG [UncleG!~UncleG@] has joined #emc
[12:58:46] <UncleG> How do I get my machine to decelerate sooner so its momentum does not carry it past its desired location?
[12:58:49] <UncleG> servo.
[12:58:54] -!- andypugh [andypugh!~andy2@cpc2-basl1-0-0-cust492.basl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #emc
[13:10:59] <jthornton> tune the machine if it is closed loop
[13:19:09] <UncleG> Im just using an encoder feedback, no tach. isnt there just a math factor to slow down at a certain rate as it approaches commanded position?
[13:19:51] <jthornton> how does your drive know how fast the motor is going without a tach
[13:20:13] <UncleG> encoder
[13:20:43] <jthornton> have you tuned the PID and checked the following error using hal scope?
[13:21:25] <UncleG> I tuned it all
[13:21:50] <UncleG> there is just too much momentum from the slide it's self, this is not a leadscrew
[13:22:12] <jthornton> so your following error is huge?
[13:22:37] <UncleG> if the inertia is high enough
[13:22:49] <jthornton> reduce the acceleration for that axis
[13:23:09] <UncleG> I want it to accelerate at a high rate of speed
[13:23:20] <jthornton> does it fault when it over travels that much?
[13:23:31] <UncleG> yes
[13:23:37] <cpresser> if it is a problem with the momentum you will habe to increase the I-Parameter of the PID-Controller
[13:23:43] <UncleG> no
[13:23:58] <UncleG> I just need to decelerate it
[13:24:04] <jthornton> can't have both, you have to tune the drive to be stiffer
[13:24:25] <jthornton> it is only one setting for acceleration/deceleration
[13:24:49] <jthornton> or ramp your speed down in g code
[13:24:55] <UncleG> well I suppose I'll have to make my own ramp
[13:25:26] <UncleG> Ill see if I can do it on a ratio dependant on DTG
[13:25:26] <cpresser> its a physical property of your machine which can be mapped in the mathematical model. so it can be controlled by the PID.
[13:25:51] <andypugh> UncleG: You might be labouring under a conceptual error here. EMC2 doesn't send end-points to the machine, it sends a millisecond-by-millisecond position, and relies on the machine to be there. The velocity and accelleration provile is set by the locus of those points.
[13:26:39] <jthornton> andypugh: did you see the multi-switch component on the forum?
[13:27:06] <andypugh> jthornton: Yes, and I can think of a number of much more elegant ways to do it :-)
[13:27:27] <andypugh> It ought to take "number of bits" as a modparam.
[13:27:32] <jthornton> aye, I didn't study it long
[13:27:43] <jthornton> but a good idea I think
[13:27:49] <UncleG> In my situation this is a servo over cam system, I just need it to decelerate between rapid and cut feedrate once im in within .100 of the material
[13:28:15] <andypugh> "cam" or "CAM">
[13:28:18] <andypugh> ?
[13:28:30] <UncleG> physical metal steel cam w/ roller
[13:28:34] <jthornton> g code
[13:28:54] <UncleG> think of a brown and sharpe
[13:29:03] <UncleG> single spindle screw machine
[13:30:00] <andypugh> You might have a non-trivial kinematics...
[13:30:56] <andypugh> Have you looked into whether "feed-rate-overide" is usable?
[13:31:05] <UncleG> O.o :)
[13:31:24] <UncleG> Ill see
[13:31:46] <jthornton> so you say your machine can accelerate faster than it can decelerate?
[13:32:24] <UncleG> no
[13:32:29] <UncleG> it just build moment
[13:32:48] <UncleG> this is a pretty big hunk of steel moving
[13:34:00] <UncleG> the slide is on a cam if the cam spins very fast then stops abruptly, it will "throw" slide/turrent into the bar
[13:34:12] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@31-16-115-146-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #emc
[13:34:33] <jthornton> ok, I see now
[13:34:53] <UncleG> *nods*
[13:35:28] <jthornton> so the mass and speed is predicable and you could start your feed move a bit sooner to slow down the slide
[13:35:52] <UncleG> its tedious calculating for every rapid movement
[13:36:06] <jthornton> yep, that would be a pia
[13:36:13] <andypugh> UncleG: Delete the cam? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpP7iTKuWpw
[13:36:53] <UncleG> the best way is to decelerate at a rate of speed which is dependat on both current velocity and DTG
[13:39:18] <UncleG> http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?v=177418715613645&set=t.100000365549057&type=3&theater
[13:39:28] <UncleG> oh crud you prolly cant see that
[13:39:33] <UncleG> can you?
[13:40:28] <andypugh> NO
[13:40:40] <andypugh> (sorry, accidental caps)
[13:47:42] <UncleG> http://huntingtonscrew.com/cnc.mp4
[13:47:48] <UncleG> if you look close I crash it
[13:47:51] <UncleG> lol
[13:49:23] <andypugh> Hmm, interesting machine.
[13:50:37] <UncleG> I need to make a new video it has lots of additions now
[13:51:45] -!- jthornton_ [jthornton_!~chatzilla@216-41-156-59.semo.net] has joined #emc
[13:51:46] <Loetmichel> emc ONE?
[13:53:02] <UncleG> yeh
[13:53:13] <UncleG> was
[13:54:39] <jthornton> so the shaper looking slide is the problem one?
[13:54:46] -!- jthornton_ has quit [Client Quit]
[13:58:03] <A2Sheds> andypugh: do you recall how many lines of g-code ahead the trajectory planner buffers? Or is it line by line or??
[13:58:33] <andypugh> I don't know. I think it can be all the way to the end.
[14:00:30] <A2Sheds> is there any way to make it work (without a rewrite of the traj planner) with dynamic data vs a static file it loads at startup?
[14:00:43] -!- syyl [syyl!~syyl@p4FD130AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #emc
[14:25:05] -!- geo01005 [geo01005!~chatzilla@63-248-116-228.static.ogdl0101.digis.net] has joined #emc
[14:32:13] -!- geo01005 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[14:55:15] -!- psha [psha!~psha@] has joined #emc
[15:20:03] -!- geo01005 [geo01005!~chatzilla@63-248-116-228.static.ogdl0101.digis.net] has joined #emc
[15:21:12] -!- UncleG [UncleG!~UncleG@] has parted #emc
[15:29:19] <Tectu> okay... took a better look on emc now... and guys... damn, that's a pretty awesome piece of software. my respect!
[15:41:14] -!- elmo40 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[15:47:19] -!- isssy [isssy!~isssy@78-83-51-185.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #emc
[15:49:29] <andypugh> Tectu: The best thing is, if there is anything missing, you can add it (or pay someone to add it)
[15:49:44] <andypugh> (or persuade a dev to add it)
[15:50:24] <Tectu> yeah :)
[15:50:50] <Tectu> but when i take a look at that software... how the hack can professional, propretary software for tousands of dollars suck so much? :D
[15:51:30] <archivist> easily, they use the money for salesman wages not development
[15:51:35] <Tectu> mmh
[15:52:03] <andypugh> I wonder how much it would have cost to pay all the EMC2 devs and documenters for their time?
[15:52:25] <archivist> more than I can afford :)
[15:53:09] <Jymmm> andypugh: $3.72 USD per year
[15:54:07] <andypugh> CNC packages sell by the thousand, not the million. You can see why they are expensive. We have software at work with a few hundred users worldwide. That's _very_ expensive.
[15:55:16] <archivist> they only have a few users because they charge so much!
[15:55:55] <Jymmm> Heh, toss it on a VM then enable RDP =)
[15:56:19] <Tom_itx> they don't wanna support that many users with their crap software
[15:56:53] <andypugh> archivist: It's emissions dyno controller code. Each car manufacturer probably has 200 dynos or less. That doesn't add up to a huge market.
[15:57:25] <archivist> andypugh, all home tuners would use it if the price was right
[15:58:14] <andypugh> Home tuners can't afford the dynos, and don't care about emissions.
[15:59:10] <andypugh> A suitable dyno installation (with air, oil and water temperature control) is about a million.
[15:59:31] <Jymmm> andypugh: say what?!
[15:59:47] <archivist> a couple of rollers and use the cars own cooling
[16:00:09] <DaViruz> i think andypugh is referring to being able to control the ambent temperature
[16:00:16] <DaViruz> in order to ensure emissions standards in all operating temperatuers
[16:01:35] <archivist> I realise what the complete systems is, but the small user is left out because the high price companies dont want to risk the gravy
[16:01:55] <andypugh> archivist: Car? What car? These are engine development dynos, the cars don't exist at that point.
[16:02:13] <DaViruz> i'm guessing the software is of no use if you don't have control over those parameters
[16:03:24] -!- OpenSpace has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[16:03:25] <archivist> andypugh, by the way I used to work for an electronics company making the readout for torquemeters :)
[16:04:16] <andypugh> It's of no use if you don't have the specific dyno hardware, including a _lot_ of dedicated IO. The dynos log literally thousands of parameters, and control hundreds.
[16:04:31] <andypugh> archivist: That's one channel...
[16:05:26] <andypugh> Not that I have all that much support for their pricing policy, we replaced a $10,000 per year per seat module from them with an Excel macro that I wrote. (if you can call 20,000 lines of code a macro)
[16:05:59] <DaViruz> it sure isn't a micro at least
[16:06:04] <SWPadnos> it's much more macro than micro
[16:06:06] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:06:38] <SWPadnos> a friend of mine used to run all the accounting for his business in Lotus 1-2-3
[16:06:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I like 123
[16:06:53] <SWPadnos> complete with macros to sort through all the transactions and print invoices at the end of the monts
[16:06:55] <SWPadnos> month
[16:07:10] <SWPadnos> back in the '286 days ...
[16:07:28] <Jymmm> I still have a 123 clone that works pretty good including the / commands
[16:07:32] <SWPadnos> 123 is fine. I preferred Quattro back in the day
[16:07:44] <archivist> I wound up a salesman from an accounting software co, why was it 30k£ when it could be priced like a spreadsheet :)
[16:07:55] <Jymmm> was quatro dos based originally?
[16:07:58] <SWPadnos> and now I'm fine with (Libre|Open)Office
[16:08:01] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:08:02] -!- acemi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2]
[16:08:23] <Jymmm> andypugh: You poor bastard...having to write a macro for excell
[16:08:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Eh, I just use google docs most of the time
[16:09:47] <Jymmm> andypugh: So, did you know VB before writing it, or while writing it?
[16:09:57] <andypugh> Jymmm: I actually rather like VBA and the IDE. VBA is a perfectly good language, a very good example of OO.
[16:10:09] <andypugh> And yes, I learned on the job. :-)
[16:10:14] <archivist> andypugh, http://www.torquemeters.com/products/test-bed-torquemeters/ the electronics was subcontracted, dunno if it still is
[16:10:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: =)
[16:11:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: Too many viruses, so I'm just against it al together.
[16:12:18] <Jymmm> andypugh: Though I do like MS-Access
[16:12:57] <archivist> MS-Abcess
[16:13:02] <Jymmm> I wish google docs would add a relational db
[16:13:37] <Jymmm> archivist: Yeah, most ppl would have corrupted DB's, you just had to run the clean-up tools on it daily
[16:13:51] <Jymmm> But there's SQLite now, so all is good.
[16:14:21] <archivist> I dont touch that toy either
[16:14:42] <Jymmm> archivist: If you use FireFox you do.
[16:14:48] <Jymmm> or thhunderbird
[16:15:08] <archivist> yes but that is with a barge pole
[16:15:08] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.autoitscript.com/site/autoit/
[16:15:14] <Jymmm> lol
[16:17:05] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Do you use XBee much?
[16:17:53] -!- OpenSpace [OpenSpace!~ja@77-46-254-205.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #emc
[16:20:27] -!- Calyp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[16:23:02] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, if never counts as much, then yes (otherwise no)
[16:23:10] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: =)
[16:23:24] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You are not missing anything fwiw
[16:23:33] <SWPadnos> good to know
[16:23:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: except headaches, frustration, and agravation
[16:23:59] <SWPadnos> oh, I have those anyway
[16:24:15] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/handrad2.jpg
[16:24:17] <syyl> :D
[16:24:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Hey, just because you can't tell you left from your right sock, doens't count =)
[16:24:49] <SWPadnos> I get tube socks to deal with that problem
[16:24:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: =)
[16:26:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: It would actually be nice for 360, if downloading while multiple devices were connected didn't take all of them down at that same time.
[16:26:39] <SWPadnos> isn't it pitifully slow (relatively speaking)?
[16:27:02] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: What *I'm* seeing is 200 byte packets =(
[16:27:18] <SWPadnos> yeah, very different from 2 MByte packets ...
[16:27:32] <SWPadnos> and 50 at once
[16:27:47] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: That's no where near the specs though, and this is specialized usage, so parts of it I just don't get yet.
[16:28:22] <SWPadnos> I just looked at the Digi page, and everything has data rates in the low hundreds of kbits/s, except the WiFi one which is 65 Mbits/s
[16:28:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Big difference fro the 65Mbps they claim http://www.digi.com/xbee/
[16:28:48] <SWPadnos> yeah, was just there :)
[16:28:49] <Jymmm> but we're not using 802.11
[16:29:03] <Jymmm> we have 802.15.4 iirc
[16:30:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Specifically 802.15.4 OEM
[16:31:37] <jdhNC> what's the best way to ship a 60 lb box to Austria from .us?
[16:31:38] -!- geo01005 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[16:31:51] <Jymmm> how big?
[16:31:51] <Mjolinor> with a mortgage
[16:31:56] <SWPadnos> put it in 2 boxes
[16:32:21] <jdhNC> it doesn't come apart... 36"x20"x12" or so
[16:33:02] <Jymmm> piggyback in a container
[16:33:34] <jdhNC> the buyer is paying for shipping, it's a $6000 item.
[16:34:21] <archivist> UPS it will cost a "bit"
[16:34:27] <pcw_home> pack as if it will be dropped 5 ft to concrete
[16:34:42] <Jymmm> what pcw_home said
[16:35:07] <archivist> I did that for my signal generator chicago to here
[16:36:18] <jdhNC> just wondering if there were shippers to avoid.. like UPS to canada usually sucks
[16:36:22] -!- geo01005 [geo01005!~chatzilla@63-248-116-228.static.ogdl0101.digis.net] has joined #emc
[16:36:31] <Jymmm> You mean Ooooooooooooooooops ?
[16:36:47] <archivist> or slow or just expensive
[16:37:44] <Jymmm> or rings the door and literally 2 seconds later leaves before you had a chance to answer the door.
[16:37:46] -!- Calyp [Calyp!~Caly@unaffiliated/calyptratus-tzm] has joined #emc
[16:38:03] <Mjolinor> they wait until you are more than 2 seconds away form the door first
[16:38:04] <jdhNC> they seem to have problesm with customs
[16:38:09] <jdhNC> and cost
[16:38:11] <Mjolinor> they sit in their van with telescopes
[16:38:32] <Jymmm> jdhNC: There is FedEx Freight fwiw
[16:38:40] <archivist> customs is out of the shippers control
[16:39:03] <archivist> customs was nosy and looked in my box
[16:39:34] <Mjolinor> customs in the UK is now in the shippers control and it sucks, they charge a fortune for the customs part and oyu have no choice but to pay it
[16:41:10] <jdhNC> I can pack the box well. I'm not sure customs can repack as well.
[16:41:40] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Glue black foam piece together
[16:41:52] <Mjolinor> they do not always open it
[16:42:09] <jdhNC> I have the original wooden crate it was shipped from the mfg.
[16:42:18] <Mjolinor> I ship a lot of stuff about and I use a combination lock on it wiht a note stuck on the box saying if htey want to open it then ring this number for hte combination
[16:42:21] <jdhNC> but, it weighs almost nothing so I'm not sure how strong it is.
[16:42:26] <Mjolinor> and no one has ever bothered to ring
[16:42:46] <Jymmm> jdhNC: drywall screws to the rescue
[16:44:12] <Tom_itx> Mjolinor, they just pry the lock off
[16:44:29] <Mjolinor> nopw
[16:44:31] <Mjolinor> nope
[16:44:34] <jdhNC> $610 for fedex 1 week.
[16:44:42] <Mjolinor> always arrived at destination unopened
[16:44:58] <Mjolinor> and its gone frmo UK USA, UK vietnam, UK greece, UK turkey
[16:45:06] <Mjolinor> itys been alot fo places and back
[16:45:39] <Mjolinor> spectrum analysers, network analysers adn EMC antennas for the most part
[16:46:04] <Jymmm> jdhNC: fexed freight ?
[16:46:22] <jdhNC> no, they don't seem to do austria
[16:46:29] <Jymmm> ah
[16:46:33] <jdhNC> all I see is canada/mexico/puerto rico
[17:00:06] <Jymmm> well $600 isn't unreasoanable for a $6000 item shipped international
[17:02:11] <alex4nder-> DHL has always worked well for me, as an express shipment service
[17:03:00] <alex4nder-> but only international; their US domestic service was lame.
[17:07:05] <Mjolinor> not as bad as TNT
[17:07:49] <Mjolinor> they delivered a TV and the box was really beat up but hte TV seemed OK, on removing TV form box there was another parcel for miidlesex harefield hospital inside, must have got in through one of the holes they made in the box
[17:08:06] <Mjolinor> I took it to the TNT depot adn they wanted me to pay shipping on it
[17:08:32] <Mjolinor> big argument about that and eventually we jsut left it on the counter while this women shouted that it wasn't her responsibility
[17:09:20] <Jymmm> heh
[17:09:21] <andypugh> Was it an organ?
[17:09:29] <Mjolinor> it didnt smell like one
[17:10:00] <Mjolinor> not that I am an expert in the smell of decomposing organs you understand
[17:10:21] <Mjolinor> but I would habve imagined it woudl smell during the 3 weeks it was at home while we were trying to get TNT to pick it up again
[17:11:34] <Jymmm> Mjolinor: Nah, that was just a bonus FROM the hospital for your broken tv box as compensation.... FREE SURGICAL INSTRUMENTS WITH EVERY DAMAGED BOX!
[17:11:51] <Mjolinor> I wasnt brave enough to open it
[17:11:56] <Mjolinor> in case it was an organ :)
[17:12:24] <Mjolinor> staples is aobut hte best delivery in the UK
[17:12:41] <Mjolinor> take any box to staples shop and htey will deliver it anywere in the UK very reasonably
[17:12:43] -!- jy76 [jy76!WebseitenU@host-64-179-15-11.syr.choiceone.net] has joined #emc
[17:14:33] <jy76> anybody out there this morning?
[17:14:37] <andypugh> Really? I didn't know they did that.
[17:14:50] <Jymmm> Has anyone in the US noticed any slowness of getting things delivered via USPS in the last few weeks by chance?
[17:15:16] <Tom_itx> Jymmm you think it might be due to the additional volume?
[17:15:26] <jy76> been waiting for a title for 3 wks
[17:15:41] <Tom_itx> Jymmm or just fleet cutbacks
[17:16:07] -!- jy76 has quit [Client Quit]
[17:16:19] <Mjolinor> probaly busy shipping hte soldiers back from Iraq or wherever it is they jsut came back form
[17:16:20] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'm thinking the place I ordered from in Novemebr is lying their ass off; they say thry shipped on 12/9 from MA to CA, seems too long to me
[17:16:21] -!- jy76 [jy76!WebseitenU@host-64-179-15-11.syr.choiceone.net] has joined #emc
[17:16:38] <Tom_itx> from where?
[17:16:47] <Jymmm> massachuset
[17:16:48] <Tom_itx> i've had stuff get lost in Pa
[17:17:07] <Tom_itx> i think the eastern mail centers kinda suck
[17:17:18] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: sme jewelry place that had the item on backrder for a month
[17:17:32] <Tom_itx> probably 2 or 3 things recently
[17:17:47] <jy76> was wondering if anyone could help w rtapi not loaded error
[17:17:57] <Tom_itx> one finally arrived after 6 weeks
[17:18:05] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: eeeesh
[17:18:16] <Tom_itx> it was stuck in Pa
[17:18:38] <Tom_itx> actually both went thru that facility
[17:19:05] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yeah, East coast kinda sucks it seems
[17:19:12] <Tom_itx> got a tracking number?
[17:19:18] <Tom_itx> i'd have them persue it
[17:19:21] <Jymmm> no,
[17:19:58] <Jymmm> they say 10-14 days, so I'll wait a couple more
[17:20:49] <Jymmm> This is why I just dont care for mail order anything.
[17:21:08] <Tom_itx> the other carriers are better but cost more
[17:21:46] <Jymmm> Well, I blame the merchan more than USPS. I've had good luck with usps over the years.
[17:21:56] <Tom_itx> fedex delivered the 13th what was due on the 16th
[17:22:34] <Tom_itx> lately UPS has been holding packages even though they are in the local facility
[17:22:40] <Tom_itx> for the due date to arrive
[17:23:02] <Tom_itx> apparently they feel if you're paying for ground that's what you're gonna get
[17:23:05] <Jymmm> only becasue they can
[17:25:14] <Mjolinor> i ordered soem chips from newark electronics and put wild mint road instead of wild mint lane no the delivery address, all else was correct, name zip etc
[17:25:35] <Mjolinor> they refused to give it the guy who it was going to and insisted on sending it back to newark electronics
[17:26:01] <Mjolinor> thats UPS :)
[17:26:09] <Jymmm> No, that's Ooooooooooooooooooops
[17:26:40] <Tom_itx> i heard that fedex and ups were gonna merge first quarter
[17:26:48] <Tom_itx> resulting company name: FedUp
[17:26:53] <Jymmm> heh
[17:27:09] <Jymmm> FedOoooooooooooops
[17:27:13] <Mjolinor> the other option is beet yeaux
[17:33:15] -!- acemi [acemi!~acemi@unaffiliated/acemi] has joined #emc
[17:37:28] -!- jy76 has quit [Quit: Bye Bye]
[17:40:34] -!- geo01005 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[17:43:21] -!- geo01005 [geo01005!~chatzilla@63-248-116-228.static.ogdl0101.digis.net] has joined #emc
[17:43:29] -!- isssy has quit [Quit: Bye Bye]
[17:47:30] -!- ve7it [ve7it!~LawrenceG@S0106001c10b7770f.pk.shawcable.net] has joined #emc
[17:53:46] -!- GoSebGo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[17:55:15] -!- capricorn_one [capricorn_one!~raffi@zima.linwin.com] has joined #emc
[18:05:40] -!- CmdrData [CmdrData!~CmdrData@ip72-199-20-172.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #emc
[18:12:22] -!- isssy [isssy!~isssy@78-83-51-185.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #emc
[18:12:36] -!- geo01005 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[18:13:52] -!- IchGucksLive [IchGucksLive!~chatzilla@95-89-244-199-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #emc
[18:14:12] <IchGucksLive> Hi all over the world
[18:15:44] <Jymmm> hola
[18:16:02] <alex4nder-> hey
[18:16:35] <Jymmm> ho
[18:19:37] <Tectu> guys, what would you prefer on a small home made cnc... belt or screw for the motion?
[18:21:34] <archivist> depends on what the cnc is, router/mill/lathe/whatever
[18:22:52] <Tectu> well, router, milling and 3d printing ^^
[18:23:14] <Tectu> i want to use it for milling and drilling pcbs primary, then i also want to print myself a reprap
[18:23:30] <IchGucksLive> for 3D printing belt and screw is good
[18:23:39] <archivist> you need some accuracy for pcb work, ballscrew
[18:23:57] <archivist> no backlash
[18:23:59] <IchGucksLive> pcb is good at 0.01mm
[18:24:30] <IchGucksLive> backlash of TR12x3 is under 0.05
[18:25:12] <archivist> 5 times .01!
[18:25:13] <Tectu> i tought about this design: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2716/4379919116_78aaafd5d6_b.jpg
[18:25:26] <Jymmm> a belt between the motor and leadscrew introduces backlash ????
[18:25:33] <Jymmm> toothed belt that is
[18:25:56] <Tectu> jep
[18:26:06] <archivist> elastic and in any gearing
[18:26:07] <IchGucksLive> the nut to the screw makes the backlash
[18:26:07] <Tectu> of course i would use a toothed belt, and not just a belt
[18:26:25] <IchGucksLive> timing belt ofcause
[18:26:53] <IchGucksLive> Tectu: what dimangens are you going
[18:27:01] <Jymmm> archivist: How different is that from (lets say) nylon/plastic gears?
[18:27:07] <IchGucksLive> 10x10x5 inch
[18:27:26] <archivist> Jymmm, you need anti backlash gears
[18:27:26] <Tectu> IchGucksLive, tought about a workspace 250x250mm X/Y and about 10 in Z
[18:27:30] <Tectu> 100mm in Z*
[18:27:33] <alex4nder-> Tectu: it seems like a toothed belt would introduce non-linearity into your system.
[18:27:38] <IchGucksLive> Jymmm: around 0.1 so 2times
[18:27:57] <Jymmm> archivist: you pulling my leg??? anti-backlash gears?
[18:28:13] <IchGucksLive> Tectu: so thats pretty good you will come up with 450Euros
[18:28:23] <archivist> Jymmm, ich is wrong it depends on reduction ratio and number of gears, not a fixed error
[18:28:34] <Tectu> IchGucksLive, jep, that's what i tought about the price
[18:28:36] <archivist> Jymmm, no I am not
[18:28:52] <IchGucksLive> Tectu: what country are you
[18:29:00] <Tectu> IchGucksLive, switzerland (german part)
[18:29:14] <Jymmm> archivist: ah, k
[18:29:14] <IchGucksLive> so Deutsch is your language
[18:29:20] <Tectu> german, right.
[18:29:24] <IchGucksLive> Te querry
[18:29:28] <Tectu> kay
[18:30:20] <archivist> Jymmm, http://www.ondrives.com/precision-gears-precision-anti-backlash-spur-gears-abpsg-2-5-module.html
[18:30:30] <mrsun> for pcb work a simple anti backlash nut would do? :)
[18:30:37] <archivist> but they are limited in force
[18:32:09] -!- mhaberler has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[18:32:19] <Jymmm> archivist: Hmmm, never heard of them before, cool
[18:33:30] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[18:34:06] <archivist> Jymmm, they are for low torque use not really useful for cnc
[18:34:19] <Jymmm> archivist: Ah, gotcha.
[18:34:58] <Jymmm> archivist: where would they be used typically?
[18:35:07] <archivist> they would be the right thing to use to couple an encoder to a spindle though
[18:35:22] <Jymmm> ok, that makes sense
[18:40:29] <Jymmm> anyone have a gigbit n router that's reliable and doens't overheat?
[18:53:42] <alex4nder-> like, a wifi router/gigabit switch combo?
[18:57:02] -!- stormlight [stormlight!~jasonandt@c-50-131-96-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #emc
[19:05:27] -!- mhaberler has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[19:05:28] -!- mhaberler_ [mhaberler_!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[19:14:05] <andypugh> WRT54G?
[19:14:38] -!- mhaberler_ has quit [Quit: mhaberler_]
[19:23:37] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[19:24:28] -!- IchGucksLive [IchGucksLive!~chatzilla@95-89-244-199-dynip.superkabel.de] has parted #emc
[19:26:37] <pcw_home> I thought all fanless GBit switches overheat...
[19:26:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: That's gb and only 10/100
[19:27:25] <Jymmm> pcw_home: your probably right, going to pick up an linksys e3000 for $70 in a few minutes
[19:28:00] <Jymmm> andypugh: b/g no n and only 10/100, not gigabit
[19:28:21] <pcw_home> The few fanless ones we have had were too hot to touch on warm days
[19:28:27] <Jymmm> its silly that they have n on 10/100
[19:28:33] <Jymmm> pcw_home: what brand?
[19:28:54] <pcw_home> Dont recall offhand
[19:29:05] <Jymmm> linksys? dlink? something else?
[19:29:28] <pcw_home> The latest had a fan anyway
[19:29:32] <Jymmm> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124388
[19:29:46] <Jymmm> pcw_home: but unless you tell me, I dont know which one that is =)
[19:30:07] <psha> i've fanles gbit switch :]
[19:30:16] <pcw_home> Without going to work I would not know
[19:30:28] <psha> but it power supply burnt some days so now it has external one :]
[19:30:31] <psha> but it's fanless
[19:30:44] <Jymmm> I'd prefer fan
[19:31:44] <psha> probably netgear wndr3[78]00?
[19:31:48] <psha> fanles, N, gigabit
[19:31:52] <psha> (probably fanles)
[19:31:58] <pcw_home> Yeah re PS electrolytic caps in small hot routers/swiches are a time bomb
[19:32:00] <Jymmm> fsck netgear any more
[19:33:32] <archivist> I have seen 7805's melt the case in small switches
[19:43:49] -!- psha has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[19:43:59] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: if it's got a metal case, NetGear tends to be OK
[19:44:45] <alex4nder-> I have a GS108T, and I'd buy another..
[19:45:30] <archivist> Im not too impressed with zyxel at the moment
[19:52:30] <factor> heh I hooked my up backward but was nto the 78 twas the rectifier.
[19:54:51] -!- isssy has quit [Quit: Bye Bye]
[20:27:09] -!- sumpfralle1 [sumpfralle1!~lars@g226019041.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #emc
[20:29:42] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[20:33:13] -!- Mjolinor has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[20:35:18] -!- andypugh has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[20:53:28] -!- syyl_ [syyl_!~syyl@p4FD1553C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #emc
[20:56:16] -!- syyl has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[21:05:45] -!- micges has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
[21:06:43] -!- drmacro [drmacro!~mac@68-189-244-90.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #emc
[21:11:16] -!- andypugh [andypugh!~andy2@cpc2-basl1-0-0-cust492.basl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #emc
[21:11:28] <andypugh> Did I miss anything?
[21:11:59] <archivist> no
[21:12:21] <drmacro> I have quad. encoders on 2 axis of a mill and a parallel port. To start I want to display the coordinates as they change with EMC2. I've read the various manuals, but still not sure where to start to attempt this.
[21:15:31] <Tectu> anyone here useing emc2 with extruder for RepStrap=
[21:15:32] <Tectu> ?
[21:19:49] -!- geo01005 [geo01005!~chatzilla@63-248-116-228.static.ogdl0101.digis.net] has joined #emc
[21:19:51] <andypugh> drmacro: You want EMC2 to act as a DRO?
[21:20:50] <andypugh> If you select "show machine position" then it will do that (in contradistinction to "show commanded position")
[21:21:15] <andypugh> Or i your query about how to wire encoders to the parport and then to EMC2?
[21:23:46] <archivist> drmacro, will the mill be controlled by emc, and is it to be servo or stepper
[21:24:40] <drmacro> andypugh: DRO yes, initially. and yes wiring, assuming I have the encoders connected to input pins on the p-port, the "logical" wiring, describing that to EMC.
[21:25:38] <archivist> drmacro, will the count rate be low enough for the parallel port
[21:27:19] <drmacro> At this point, it is a hand crank, but, I need to check the pulse per inch to be sure.
[21:29:44] <andypugh> You could do a DRO without bothering with most of EMC2. Just a HAL file to load some threads and encoder counters and a GladeVDP (or PyVCP panel) with the numbers and some reset buttons.
[21:29:50] -!- jsr__ [jsr__!~jsr@in-184-1-118-203.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #emc
[21:31:37] <archivist> if you intend servo, then it is likely you would use a card that can count at much higher rates (example mesa)
[21:35:00] <drmacro> andypugh: I guessed I could do that from what I've read. I would ultimately servo the table, but it'll be a while before I get the ball screws and servos. I have the encoders, so I wanted to DRO for now. So, I'm trying to figure out how to configure HAL file to do it.
[21:35:45] <drmacro> archivist: that was in reply to you as well.
[21:36:41] <andypugh> drmacro: Have you read the HAL manual?
[21:38:22] <andypugh> Which version of EMC2 do you have?
[21:40:20] <pcw_home> Also to avoid parallel port pitfalls its probably best to use the input only pins (10,11,12,13,15)
[21:40:30] -!- syyl [syyl!~syyl@p4FD1553C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #emc
[21:41:06] <andypugh> drmacro: I think that this example here does exactly what you want: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?PyVCP
[21:41:38] -!- syyl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[21:42:09] <andypugh> You need the two files pyvcp-dro2.hal and pyvcp-dro.xml and that should be it.
[21:42:09] <drmacro> Booting the machine to check rev. Yes, I've read the HAL manual. I think I grock the different settings. I just don't visualize all the steps required to display an encoder input.
[21:42:54] <drmacro> oops, typing while you were sending. checking link now.
[21:43:56] <drmacro> emc says 2.4.6 when launched
[21:44:37] <andypugh> I think that means you have to use PyVCP and not GladeVCP.
[21:44:40] -!- rob__H [rob__H!rob_h@2002:8ac7:449b::8ac7:449b] has joined #emc
[21:47:38] -!- rob_h has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[21:51:35] -!- bootnecklad has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[21:54:39] -!- rob__H has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[21:56:16] <Loetmichel> *grrr* Thats endless... 22:54 o'clog over here and i have still 5 of the plates to go... i had have bought a fitting drill bit for the 100++ holes per plate ;) -> http://www.cyrom.org/pce/lochknabbern.avi
[21:56:27] -!- geo01005 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[22:00:24] <drmacro> andypugh: I got the files from that link and they appear to running. I'll study the content of the hal file and see if I can learn how it works.
[22:01:24] <drmacro> Thanks to all for the pointers! :)
[22:03:41] -!- mhaberler has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[22:04:00] -!- drmacro [drmacro!~mac@68-189-244-90.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has parted #emc
[22:06:11] -!- bootnecklad [bootnecklad!~bootneckl@host-84-13-211-227.opaltelecom.net] has joined #emc
[22:09:52] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[22:12:51] -!- bootnecklad1 [bootnecklad1!~bootneckl@vm4.telegraphics.com.au] has joined #emc
[22:13:17] -!- bootnecklad has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[22:27:39] -!- syyl has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[22:28:46] -!- CmdrData has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[22:38:01] -!- stormlight has quit [Quit: stormlight]
[22:38:01] -!- jsr__ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[22:39:28] -!- Eartaker [Eartaker!~Eartaker@c-67-185-76-100.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #emc
[22:39:28] -!- Eartaker has quit [Changing host]
[22:39:28] -!- Eartaker [Eartaker!~Eartaker@unaffiliated/eartaker] has joined #emc
[22:39:42] <andypugh> I started making this motor before I had finished designing it. Which is probably why I have spent thus evening making tis crazy part. http://imagebin.org/189246
[22:40:23] <andypugh> That 0.4 is mm (15 thou). Facing of to that thickness involved double-sided tape.
[22:44:35] <andypugh> I have yet to decide on the best way to put an encoder track on it. Perhaps i need to make a laser engraver.
[22:45:14] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[22:59:47] <A2Sheds> $40 inkjet, adhesive inkjet paper, $3 can of clear acrylic
[22:59:50] -!- geo01005 [geo01005!~chatzilla@63-248-116-228.static.ogdl0101.digis.net] has joined #emc
[23:01:15] <A2Sheds> I need to start selling encoders printed with inkjet
[23:09:34] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@] has joined #emc
[23:13:45] <alex4nder-> hah
[23:14:19] -!- Eartaker has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:15:23] <skunkworks_> andypugh: will the motor work for your applications?
[23:23:28] -!- geo01005 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[23:25:39] <andypugh> A2Sheds: my detector needs 75lpi, and I haven't found a printer that can do that yet.
[23:25:51] <andypugh> skunkworks_: Yes, it seems to work.
[23:25:57] <skunkworks_> Great!
[23:26:28] <andypugh> Certainly good enough for a proof of concept.
[23:30:53] <skunkworks_> for some reason I thought this was for your mill ;)
[23:32:09] <andypugh> It is, indirectly.
[23:37:55] <Loetmichel> grrr... 45min one plate... and stoll 4 to go... that will be a short night... ( its 00:37 over here, and at 08:00 i have to be in the company) ... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12575
[23:38:12] <A2Sheds> Lexmark thermal inkjet is 600dpi native at the head
[23:39:10] <A2Sheds> the color cartridges will do 1200dpi since they have much smaller drops but the nozzle spacing is 600dpi
[23:39:16] -!- LawrenceSeattle has quit [Quit: LawrenceSeattle]
[23:39:59] <A2Sheds> Canon has 2pL $40 printers that will do up to 4800 dpi, the 1pL printers are ~$100 and do 9600 dpi
[23:53:53] <andypugh> I bought a 2400 dpi laser printer, but the vendor is being strange. They seem to be able to send me emails about once a week but not read my replies.