#emc | Logs for 2011-12-04

[00:00:49] <andypugh> You can put an encoder on a stepper to get feedback, but there isn't much you can do with the information.
[00:01:31] <andypugh> If you try to drive a stepper harder then that just means faster, and that makes the torque drop, exactly the opposite of what you wanted.
[00:02:23] <Wormgear> LoL i've never had anyone explain that to me
[00:02:36] <Wormgear> you seem pretty solid with your understanding over motors
[00:02:42] <Wormgear> of* motors
[00:02:57] <andypugh> I knew nothing until I started playing with EMC2 :-)
[00:03:07] <Wormgear> i really cannot wait to get started
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[00:03:49] <Wormgear> i'd imagine also that if your PID loop is performing more like an integrator (derivative and direct control zero'd -out) then it will be slow like a stepper
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[00:09:06] <skunkKandT> andypugh: i think you have done something similar.. How do I offset an axis in hal by a signal? I want to change Z axis in realtion to spindle temp
[00:09:23] <skunkKandT> up to .005"
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[00:10:15] <skunkKandT> (from cold to hot)
[00:11:02] <andypugh> Use the "offset" component, with the offset taken from the temperature via a "scale" function.
[00:11:34] <andypugh> Offset goes between axis.N.position-cmd and the PID or stepgen.
[00:11:54] <andypugh> Your spindle grows by that much?
[00:12:19] <skunkKandT> oh - cool - that looks almost easy enough..
[00:13:01] <skunkKandT> from about 60deg to 100 is about .003
[00:13:42] <andypugh> The nice thing about "offset" is that it tweaks the feedback on the way back, so the controller stays happy.
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[00:16:54] <skunkKandT> I am graphing now to see what I am going to get...
[00:17:13] <cradek> is it linear?
[00:17:35] <andypugh> It ought to be.
[00:18:26] <skunkKandT> it wants to be... but the upper temp looks funny because i think the whole spindle wasn't up to temp
[00:18:35] <andypugh> Though I guess if the contact between internal parts changes as the parts expand, it might not be linear
[00:19:50] <andypugh> 10% non-linearity takes the error down to 0.0003..
[00:20:42] <skunkKandT> I am actually taking readings as the spindle cools down... good or bad
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[00:21:18] <andypugh> I would suggest going both ways. Then you get a feel for the hysteresis
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[00:36:49] <FinboySlick> Hmmm, I need a better floor :P
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[00:37:03] <FinboySlick> My mill is bouncing.
[00:37:24] <Danimal_garage> lol
[00:37:27] <Danimal_garage> wood?
[00:37:45] <FinboySlick> Yeah. I used a corner of the house to improve things but it's not enough apparently.
[00:38:03] <andypugh> You could consider piers under the floor
[00:38:12] <FinboySlick> Yeah, that's what I'm considering.
[00:38:27] <FinboySlick> So long as it doesn't also manage to move the floor sideways ;)
[00:38:58] <andypugh> I would be rather worried about a mill on a wooden floor. (Depending on the size of the mill)
[00:39:08] <FinboySlick> 800 pounds.
[00:39:32] <andypugh> No worse than a water-bed I suppose.
[00:39:43] <FinboySlick> Yeah. Bit smaller area though.
[00:40:06] <andypugh> This is on the ground floor?
[00:40:37] <FinboySlick> Yeah, and the cellar is not finished (dirt floor) so I can put as much bracing beneath it as I want.
[00:41:37] <skunkKandT> andypugh: this is what I have so far... http://imagebin.org/186863
[00:41:43] <FinboySlick> I'm trying to tweak acceleration figures but I'm not too sure how to figure out if I've skipped steps.
[00:41:44] <andypugh> Perhaps build a breeze-block square up to joist level, then fill with compacted ballast, and skim over with concrete. Then put the floor back.
[00:42:51] <andypugh> skunkKandT: Fahrenheit?
[00:42:55] <FinboySlick> The 'test axis' wizard goes back and forth so if I consistently lose steps in each direction, I'm not really going to notice.
[00:43:34] <skunkKandT> yes - although the temp is not as critical.. the volt vs offset is what i am worried about
[00:43:39] <andypugh> It's pretty unusual to lose steps and continue. A lost step (under no load) normally escalates to a stalled motor
[00:44:04] <andypugh> skunkKandT: Is that your full range of interest?
[00:44:23] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Really?
[00:44:39] <FinboySlick> I thought it would just keep going at an offset.
[00:45:02] <skunkKandT> I was hoping to get down to 60 deg.. and then fit a line
[00:45:21] <andypugh> FinboySlick: At high speed, yes. I am not talking about electrical signal problems here, purely stepper physical limits.
[00:45:53] <andypugh> skunkKandT: That looks like a 0.00025 error between data and straight line.
[00:46:08] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Physical limit is what I'm trying to find out. So basically, if my motor stalls, I found it?
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[00:46:20] <skunkKandT> That would be awesome
[00:46:33] <andypugh> Yes, keep increasing the speed, you will see it eventually.
[00:47:35] <andypugh> Has anyone here tried photochemical milling?
[00:47:44] <FinboySlick> That's very good news, I'm already up from 200mm/s² accel to 500mm/s² and it's not showing any signs of strain (well, the mill isn't, not sure about the floor)
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[00:48:31] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Do you have weight on the table?
[00:48:44] <FinboySlick> andypugh: A vise and typical part.
[00:49:04] <andypugh> You don't have any atypical parts to hand? :-)
[00:49:54] <FinboySlick> I guess I should find the theorical 'heaviest thing I'm going to mill on' thing to put on the table for such tests.
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[00:51:32] <FinboySlick> I also lowered microstepping quite a bit. I guess there's not much point in going below 0.0002" a step.
[00:51:51] <andypugh> You might not want the absolute max accel anyway, it is perhaps worth leaving time to get to the e-stop when you miss-type in the MDI :-)
[00:52:41] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Oh that's for sure. I'm just curious to see what the mill can do theorically. I'm definitely limited by my experience here and trying to be sane about that.
[00:54:19] <FinboySlick> I'm already pretty darn happy with it, and also the fact that I can't find any backlash.
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[01:02:49] <skunkKandT> boy- takes longer and longer for each 50mv to go by when the spindle gets closer to ambient
[01:02:51] <skunkKandT> ;)
[01:03:14] <andypugh> Yeah. Iced water would be non-representative
[01:03:22] <Wormgear> why does it take longer
[01:03:25] <andypugh> Why not leave it overnight, and just get the end-point?
[01:03:53] <andypugh> Newton's law of cooling, the rate of heat loss is proportional to the difference between the temperatures
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[03:03:05] <Nick001> Anyone know where and how to get emc2-dev. My computer is screaming about it to go from 2.3 to 2.4 amd I cant install a comp file without it.
[03:14:47] <mikegg> you have to change the repository in synaptic to 2.4
[03:14:50] <mikegg> I think
[03:15:18] <mikegg> then it should upgrade automatically
[03:18:25] <Nick001> It's not there to begin with
[03:19:45] <Nick001> it's listed in synaptic but won't get it because of 2 pkgs that are unavailible
[03:21:55] <mikegg> I dunno dude, I'm probably one of the least qualified to be talking about this. but I thought if you go to repositories -> other software tab
[03:22:11] <mikegg> and edit the things that say emc2.3 to say emc2.4
[03:22:15] <mikegg> magic happens
[03:22:34] <mikegg> food time, bbl
[03:22:50] <Nick001> Did that and it says no dev files
[03:23:04] <Nick001> engoy
[03:24:47] <Nick001> It also puts emc into statup error and going back dosen't work
[03:25:49] <Nick001> Ifound something in the wiki with a list of pkgs to dounload offline but its listed as 32 bit. I'll have to try it tomorrow
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[03:41:24] <danimal_laptop> Nick001: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[03:41:45] <danimal_laptop> just go with 2.5, it's pretty much ready for release anyways
[03:41:53] <danimal_laptop> just waiting on docs or something
[03:43:12] <danimal_laptop> instructions are there to upgrade
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[03:56:09] <Tom_itx> is ngcgui part of 2.5 now?
[03:56:27] <danimal_laptop> no clue, never used it
[03:57:31] <Tom_itx> the readme indicated it would be
[03:57:40] <Tom_itx> http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/ngcgui/README
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[04:02:18] <mikegg> also
[04:02:19] <mikegg> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.048.invert_output TRUE
[04:02:24] <mikegg> err.. not that
[04:05:32] <mikegg> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UPDATING#Changes_between_2_3_x_and_2_4_x
[04:05:49] <mikegg> huh, chrome wouldn't let me copy that for some reason....
[04:06:13] <mikegg> 2.4 won't work right out of the box...
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[04:11:52] <Nick001> danimal_laptop- go with the 64 bit? MB is an older board Asus P4P800SE
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[04:20:36] <danimal_laptop> is it a 64 bit processor?
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[04:25:51] <danimal_laptop> Nick001: i'd assume 32 bit unless you have a 64 bit processor, which is unlikely if it's old
[04:26:35] <Wormgear> hi
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[04:50:08] <Nick001> ok - I thought it woked bakwards - 64 bit was the older one. I need to keep up
[04:50:36] <Nick001> worked backwards
[04:52:01] <Nick001> Also use realtime files?
[04:54:30] <danimal_laptop> yes
[04:56:56] <Nick001> will this help me install a comp file?
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[05:57:58] <mikegg> does anyone know of a stepper driver which runs of line voltage? i.e. ~120
[05:58:10] <mikegg> *off
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[08:25:56] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[10:06:56] <scanf> hi, how useful is the RTAI 10.04 install for side tasks not related to EMC?
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[10:22:21] <awallin> scanf: it's not much slower/different than a normal install I think
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[10:25:48] <archivist> scanf, till recently my web and database server and browsing was on the cnc controller off the mill
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[11:12:26] <scanf> its working pretty well
[11:12:44] <scanf> sshfs mounted dirs and 720p movie playing over network
[11:19:54] <Eartaker> lies
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[11:34:48] <yoyoek1> hi
[11:37:17] <yoyoek1> there are some users mgcodegenerator ?
[11:41:11] <Eartaker> ?
[11:45:03] <yoyoek1> looking for feedback for my plugin mgcodegenerator
[11:50:58] <jthornton> what does it plugin to?
[11:51:12] <mrsun> anyone has a south bend lathe ?
[11:51:56] <yoyoek1> jthornton: about http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?GcodeGenerator
[11:51:58] <jthornton> I used to have an Atlas lathe does that count?
[11:52:42] <mrsun> i want to know how the compound locking mechanism works on the south bend, have a clone and the bolts for the compound isnt long enough, i was think if there was supposed to be some kinds of rods at lose at the end of the bolts or something
[11:53:21] <mrsun> http://www.desmoines-classifieds.com/Warren-County-/Farm-Supplies-/Road-building-/South-bend-9-10K-lathe-compound-rest-w-nut-gib-adimage.jpg looks like there is something in there
[11:53:29] <mrsun> that is tapered to lock into it
[11:54:51] <jthornton> is the compound just a smooth shaft?
[11:55:15] <mrsun> the thing that goes into the hole has a taper on it, like a dovetail
[11:55:26] <mrsun> that matches with the bolt holes from the sides
[11:56:03] <jthornton> so a pin with a matching taper for each locking bolt then
[11:56:05] <mrsun> or is it called cross feed?
[11:56:16] <mrsun> the one highest that you can set angle on =)
[11:57:23] <archivist> those two square headed are the locking screws /me has a southbend
[11:58:04] <mrsun> mm, but they are to short to reach all the way so has to be some more pins inside =)
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[11:58:38] <archivist> probably brass to avoid damage
[11:58:54] <mrsun> a pitty they have been so stupid with this lathe and run it without oil for a very long time :/
[11:59:10] <mrsun> leadscrew is very worn, oil holes were clogged with dust/oil ....
[11:59:20] <mrsun> oilcups removed.. i guess they were in the way or something :P
[11:59:31] <archivist> they wear any way, mine has about 10-15 thou wear on the ways
[12:00:06] <archivist> I got new nuts made for my southbend leadscrew
[12:00:20] <mrsun> the spindle bushing was "rigid" according to the one i bought it off, when i took hold of the spindle i could jerk it towards me over 1mm :P
[12:00:37] <mrsun> only thing holding it in place was the wedge belt tension :P
[12:01:00] <archivist> once rebuilt it should be good
[12:01:23] <mrsun> ive made a new bushing =)
[12:01:35] <mrsun> need shims for the bolts for the bushings tho
[12:01:55] <mrsun> its a quite beautifull machine tho =)
[12:02:04] <mrsun> the days when there was still soft edges on everything :P
[12:02:06] <archivist> I have the taper turning attachment and that is nice
[12:03:06] <archivist> I machined an iso taper and it fitted really well in the mill
[12:08:37] <mrsun> archivist, but how do you free up the cross slide to be able to be pushed by that attachment ?
[12:09:19] <archivist> the cross slide nut woks against the attachment
[12:10:22] <mrsun> hmm, i dont understand =)
[12:10:44] <mrsun> trying to find a good picture of the thing but =)
[12:12:18] <mrsun> all i can find is pictures of where it just pushes on the cross slide and i guess that would require to remove the cross slide screw?
[12:12:27] <archivist> my swiss lathe has the facility too but has some parts missing
[12:14:01] <archivist> you can get southbend manuals but they do charge :(
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[12:17:02] * archivist goes back out after coffee to continue shed base ground clearance
[12:35:39] * Loetmichel states: his mill is MUCH to small for the job at hand... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12494
[12:35:48] <Loetmichel> ... time to build a bigger one ;-)
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[13:36:16] <TekniQue> Loetmichel: yes
[13:38:40] <archivist> Loetmichel, I have a pic I got at a factory where the item is held by the crane because it was too big
[13:39:36] <mrsun> archivist, how is the spindle oil viscosity for the south bend ?
[13:40:08] <mrsun> atm i have just used for testing some moped gearbox oil but dont know if its good :P it keeps throwing oil all over the place
[13:40:20] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_Statfold/p1010169.jpg
[13:40:52] <archivist> mrsun, that means it is getting through the bearings :)
[13:41:10] <mrsun> yes, is it to low viscosity or is it good? :P
[13:41:26] <archivist> you may be over oiling a bit
[13:41:48] <archivist> gear oil is a bit thick
[13:42:12] <mrsun> yeah over oiling is an possibility as i filled the oil holes with oil when testing :P
[13:42:18] <archivist> mine has wick feeders to regulate the flow
[13:43:03] <mrsun> archivist, hmm, dont know what has been there originaly on this one, its a south bend clone and they had removed the oilcups for the spindle
[13:44:27] <mrsun> if i were to use a wick, would it just be straight down into the hole into the bearing ?
[13:45:48] <archivist> basicly yes
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[16:25:51] <isssy> irchild
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[18:01:01] <IchGucksLive> hi all the boms in germany are determinated
[18:01:17] <IchGucksLive> but 5 new are found this weekend also
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[18:37:28] <Nick001-Shop> A line at buildbot is To use these packages on your computer, put one of these stanzas in your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/emc2-buildbot.list:-- How do I get this line into the directory - Seems to be protected from direct editing
[18:42:17] <JT-Shop> Nick001-Shop: sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list.d/emc2-buildbot.list
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[19:11:06] <Nick001-Shop> That one worked- followed the rest of the instructions and came up with unmet dependencies and broken packages and emc2 stayed at 2.3.5. Do I need to reboot to take effect|?
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[19:42:39] <JT-Shop> aww Nick left
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[20:13:10] <ssi> hi everybody
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[20:22:14] <ssi> anyone got any tips on troubleshooting a 5hp motor that blows the breaker on startup?
[20:22:33] <ssi> I'm figuring maybe bad start/run caps?
[20:23:59] <andypugh> Single phase?
[20:24:00] <JT-Shop> 120v motor?
[20:24:23] <JT-Shop> Hi Andy
[20:24:32] <andypugh> Does it have a centrifugal switch?
[20:24:48] <andypugh> (If so, my guess is that it stuck on, and the starting windings melted)
[20:25:32] <andypugh> Though it might, possibly, be stuck off, so the motor doesn't actually turn, and acts stalled.
[20:26:03] <ssi> single phase 220v
[20:26:09] <andypugh> I have to say, 5hp seems big for single-phase
[20:26:17] <ssi> it's on a big IR compressor
[20:26:28] <ssi> the motor does turn, it'll run the pump even
[20:26:40] <ssi> but it blows the breaker within a few seconds
[20:26:47] <ssi> and it does it unloaded too, so it's not the pump binding
[20:26:53] <andypugh> In that case, I go for "centrifugal switch stuck on"
[20:27:07] <ssi> http://p.twimg.com/Af2JQ0UCIAIxxh9.jpg
[20:27:18] <ssi> would that be inside the motor, or teh switch on the compressor?
[20:27:46] <andypugh> If you disonnect it from the compressor, you should hear the switch click out, and then when you turn it off, click back in when it slows down.
[20:28:03] <andypugh> It in the motor, on the back of the rotor.
[20:28:11] <ssi> I see
[20:28:19] <ssi> I'm assuming it's safe for me to pull the back of the case off?
[20:28:31] <ssi> the bolts that hold it in go all the way through the body to the front
[20:29:30] <JT-Shop> ssi: does your motor have two big humps on the motor with caps in them like mine?
[20:29:55] <andypugh> The picture here shows roughly where it will be. Try peering through the holes to make sure that it really does have one, though.
[20:29:57] <andypugh> http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/E/electric_motor.html
[20:30:18] <ssi> JT-Shop: yea
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[20:30:58] <andypugh> JT-Shop asks a good question, it might not have starting windings if it is cap-start / cap run.
[20:31:01] <ssi> JT-Shop: and the humps are actually sealed cans... I tried pulling one off thinking it was a cover over the caps
[20:31:14] <ssi> but the whole thing came off and wires run into the back of the case
[20:31:23] <ssi> also, for what it's worth,
[20:31:30] <JT-Shop> ssi: you have the exact same motor as I do on my IR compressor
[20:31:33] <ssi> if you turn the motor through by hand, it feels and sounds like it drags slightly
[20:31:40] <ssi> not sure if that's normal
[20:31:58] <JT-Shop> can you take an amp reading before it trips the breaker?
[20:32:07] <ssi> maybe
[20:32:07] <JT-Shop> breakers fail too
[20:32:10] <ssi> yea that's true
[20:32:22] <JT-Shop> I'll kick mine on and see what it draws
[20:32:22] <ssi> it'd be cheap enough for me just to replace the breaker I guess
[20:32:25] <ssi> ok
[20:32:31] <ssi> lemme see what I can do
[20:33:29] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Can you listen for a centrifugal switch too?
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[20:35:05] <andypugh> I spent much of this evening making an M12 x 1mm thread using an M6 tap...
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[20:35:54] <JT-Shop> ssi: mine draws 25 amps and I don't hear the old click of a centrifugal switch
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[20:36:14] <JT-Shop> andypugh: on the lathe?
[20:36:43] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yes. It would be especially difficult otherwise.
[20:36:56] <ssi> JT-Shop: I don't have a clamp meter, so I'm gonna have to do this the scary way
[20:37:05] <ssi> if you don't hear back from me in 10m or so, send flowers ;)
[20:37:40] <andypugh> Though I guess you could make an eccentric tap holder/guide to allow you to use a smaller tap as a single-edge tap..
[20:37:46] <JT-Shop> well you could have ground off all but one line of teeth and thread milled with it
[20:38:37] * JT-Shop wonders which way to look for the mushroom cloud over ssi's shop
[20:40:04] * JT-Shop looks on the nice photo of the name place and sees the FLA 22.5 right there on the label
[20:40:04] <ssi> argh I'm a tard
[20:40:16] <ssi> didn't kill myself,
[20:40:22] <JT-Shop> that's good
[20:40:24] <ssi> but I did kill a relatively expensive 10A fluke fuse ;)
[20:40:30] <ssi> forgot about that
[20:40:41] <JT-Shop> what did you try and do?
[20:40:59] <ssi> put the meter in line with the 220v on the compressor to try to measure the starting current
[20:41:06] <JT-Shop> ouch
[20:41:07] <ssi> but it's hard to measure 25A of current with a 10A fused meter
[20:41:11] <Tom_itx> you need a bigger meter than that to measure a big motor's current
[20:41:16] <ssi> like I said, I don't have a clamp meter :(
[20:41:19] <JT-Shop> be a lot more than 25a at startup
[20:41:23] <Tom_itx> need an inductive pickup for it
[20:41:26] <ssi> yeah
[20:41:35] <ssi> ah well
[20:41:43] <ssi> anyway, so I guess I can try replacing the breaker
[20:41:50] <ssi> it's a 30A breaker, fwiw
[20:41:53] <JT-Shop> what size breaker is it?
[20:41:55] <ssi> and been running for years with no issue
[20:41:57] <ssi> but I guess they can fail
[20:42:05] <JT-Shop> ouch that is too close to FLA
[20:42:06] <ssi> beyond that, start/run caps
[20:42:16] <Tom_itx> i don't think motors have both start coils AND caps, i think it's either one or the other
[20:42:18] <JT-Shop> should be on a 50amp circuit
[20:42:26] <ssi> I can do t hat
[20:42:38] <ssi> but like I said, it's never been an issue
[20:42:47] <andypugh> ssi: You can just wrap some wire round one of the leads and measure AC mV
[20:43:00] <ssi> and the compressor is 2' from the breaker
[20:43:01] <Tom_itx> carefully discharge the caps and measure the resistance across their leads
[20:43:12] <JT-Shop> not till the breaker gets tired of running close to max
[20:43:46] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I call them capzappaters
[20:43:53] <ssi> I can't measure the caps without pulling the rear cap off
[20:43:56] <ssi> which includes the bearing
[20:44:00] <ssi> I'm pretty sure
[20:44:07] <JT-Shop> I'd go for the breaker first
[20:44:10] <ssi> I may try swapping the breaker first
[20:44:13] <ssi> cheap, least invasive
[20:44:15] <Tom_itx> don't blow up your meter checking them
[20:44:25] <JT-Shop> and I'm not taking mine apart to see :P
[20:44:29] <ssi> :)
[20:44:30] <Tom_itx> aww
[20:45:33] <JT-Shop> speaking of caps Tom_itx I put some AB indicator lamps (the transformer kind) from line to ground on my phase converter and it is less shocking to stick my hand inside now :)
[20:45:59] <Tom_itx> heh
[20:46:15] <Tom_itx> wakes you up better than a strong cup of coffee
[20:47:11] <JT-Shop> kinda neat to watch the generated leg wind up and get brighter when you start it
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[20:58:10] <Tom_itx> i made a mains led indicator with an led, diode (to protect the led) and about a 30K resistor
[20:58:43] <Tom_itx> the diode has a higher reverse breakdown
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[21:35:37] * mrsun is trying out to switch gears etc on a south bend
[21:35:53] <mrsun> kinda fiddly =)
[21:36:14] <archivist> simple, just move the levers :)
[21:36:24] <mrsun> ehm :P
[21:36:32] <mrsun> with lose gears :P
[21:38:12] <ssi> breaker didn't hlp
[21:38:34] <ssi> motor actually does sound like it has a centrifugal switch
[21:38:35] <Tom_itx> lick the caps and see if they're charged
[21:38:39] <ssi> I took some video, trying to get it put up
[21:39:14] <archivist> mrsun, mine is late 1930's/1940's http://www.southbendlathe.com/historical_photo.aspx?id=35
[21:39:32] <mrsun> but you have a gearbox =)
[21:39:49] <archivist> erm I might :)
[21:40:27] <mrsun> http://www.southbendlathe.com/historical_photo.aspx?id=36 thats more like mine =)
[21:40:29] <Tom_itx> i wonder when they started putting spindle brakes on em
[21:40:32] <mrsun> but its not realy a south bend
[21:40:34] <mrsun> its a clone
[21:41:44] <archivist> southbend was copied a lot I think
[21:42:06] <Tom_itx> my atlas looks alot like those
[21:42:27] <ssi> andypugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL-qHHkg27k
[21:43:36] <archivist> what a noise
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[21:46:57] <syyl__> theres a screw loose
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[21:47:09] <syyl__> (not in my head!)
[21:47:21] <Tom_itx> something is loose for sure
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[21:51:34] <danimal_laptop> hi
[21:53:37] <ssi> there's definitely a centrifugal switch and a starting winding
[21:53:44] <ssi> but there's also definitely two caps :/
[21:53:49] <ssi> I pulled the caps tho
[21:56:53] <ssi> http://p.twimg.com/Af2huAYCMAA9XxW.jpg
[21:57:00] <ssi> http://p.twimg.com/Af2hrnvCMAIdUD0.jpg
[22:01:32] <andypugh> Can you tell if the switch is, err, switching?
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[22:01:45] <mrsun> hmm now i need stuff to learn threading on...
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[22:02:10] <andypugh> Voltmeter across it should work, should be zero volts when closed, and something AC when open,
[22:02:26] <ssi> I can check continuity on it...
[22:02:29] <ssi> I have the backcap off
[22:02:36] <ssi> everything looks nominal, no obvious burned windings
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[22:02:59] <andypugh> Checking continuity with the motor stopped is not that much help.
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[22:04:27] <ssi> well I can manually close the switch
[22:04:55] <ssi> btw, the start capacitor is testing twice the capacitance that it's labeled
[22:05:00] <ssi> run cap is right on
[22:06:05] <mrsun> hmm, building a threading dial or whatever they call it cant be to hard can it? :)
[22:06:45] <ssi> no, just a gear that matches your leadscrew
[22:07:33] <mrsun> and in my case as a metric user it would turn one turn per cm ?
[22:07:40] <mrsun> or is it more ?
[22:08:53] <ssi> I wanna say the metric ones typically are 15 tooth? but that might not be generic
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[22:18:38] <mrsun> hmm, need to check if the thread is metric or imperial also on the lathe
[22:18:40] <mrsun> that i do not know
[22:18:52] <mrsun> i know i have gears for cutting both metric and imperial threads atleast :P
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[22:26:43] <Tom_itx> check shorts from winding to frame too
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[22:34:08] <Mjolinor> anyone know if hte default mm / rev in stepconf is 20
[22:34:19] <Mjolinor> I want to do soem calulations but I dont ahve it here
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[22:50:12] <JT-Shop> ssi: you find the problem?
[22:50:22] <danimal_laptop> hi John
[22:52:48] <Wormgear> sup Dan
[22:55:05] <JT-Shop> Hi Dan
[22:55:11] <Tom_itx> good evening
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[22:55:45] <Wormgear> Dan can you please take me off your black list
[22:56:18] <danimal_laptop> huh?
[22:56:55] <Tom_itx> maybe he's just ignoring you
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[23:05:33] <andypugh> mrsun: I think I have a spare thread gauge from my lathe.
[23:06:40] <andypugh> I am not planning to go back to manual threading :-)
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[23:14:45] <andypugh> Can anyone think of a suitable package for making a very accurate bitmap image?
[23:15:15] -!- Wormgear has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
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[23:17:08] <FinboySlick> andypugh: From what source?
[23:17:28] <andypugh> That's the question :-)
[23:17:50] <A2Sheds> andypugh: Gimp works for me
[23:18:19] <andypugh> Does that let you work to accurate scale?
[23:18:27] <andypugh> Perhaps I should explain.
[23:18:39] <tom3p> aside: acad released 123d freeware ( time crippled , some bits only OSX ) interesting http://www.123dapp.com/
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[23:19:34] <alex4nder-> hey
[23:19:38] <Wormgear> where can i buy the kind of worm thread rod for doing axis actuation?
[23:19:42] <andypugh> I might want to create a mask for etching an encoder wheel. I have found a company that will expose a 60mm x 60mm film slide for a very reasonable cost. The question is how to create the image.
[23:19:57] <FinboySlick> Oooh.
[23:19:58] <Wormgear> like what Loetmichel used for his homebrew router
[23:20:03] <Jymmm> Wormgear: acme? ballscrew?
[23:20:18] <andypugh> Wormgear: Which country are you in?
[23:20:20] <FinboySlick> andypugh: In such a case, I'd go vector graphics and then output to bitmap.
[23:20:28] <Wormgear> USA
[23:21:03] <alex4nder-> Wormgear: mcmaster
[23:21:07] <FinboySlick> andypugh: You can actually write an accurate .svg file (it's XML if I recall) and render it at whichever resolution you want.
[23:21:14] <Loetmichel> Wormgear: which one do you mean?
[23:21:27] <andypugh> I am not getting the quality I want from the built-in RIP of a laser printer, so I was thinking about writing code to colour in pixels.
[23:21:38] <Wormgear> the little threaded rods that move the axes
[23:21:54] <Jymmm> Wormgear: Yes, which ones though... acme? ballscrew?
[23:21:54] <Loetmichel> which router
[23:21:57] <Wormgear> i mean, your little router
[23:22:04] <andypugh> Though I do know a guy who used to write in raw postscript, and I guess that would work well too.
[23:22:05] <Loetmichel> i've made about eight ;-)
[23:22:06] <Wormgear> the smallest one you have for doing RC parts and PCBs
[23:22:17] <Jymmm> andypugh: does it HAVE to be a bimap (raster) graphic?
[23:22:19] <Wormgear> hmm lol
[23:22:22] <Loetmichel> a, the aluminium one?
[23:22:23] <FinboySlick> andypugh: It's essentially what I suggested only svg is easier to write.
[23:22:24] <Wormgear> acme ballscrew?
[23:22:31] <Wormgear> what the heck is that?
[23:22:57] <FinboySlick> andypugh: I assume you don't need very complicated shapes.
[23:23:32] <Jymmm> andypugh: and why do you need a raster graphic?
[23:24:01] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I assume it's what the company expects as input.
[23:24:04] <Wormgear> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12304
[23:24:27] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: not for any type of fabrication i've ever come across
[23:25:03] <Loetmichel> Wormgear: in germany it is called "trapezgewindespindel" i think in english it musst be something like "Trapezoid screw"
[23:25:04] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: (06:19:33 PM) andypugh: I might want to create a mask for etching an encoder wheel. I have found a company that will expose a 60mm x 60mm film slide for a very reasonable cost. The question is how to create the image.
[23:25:43] <Jymmm> Oh that... Use PostScript, can render out to 2400 lpi easily
[23:25:45] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: try something like this:
[23:26:01] <Jymmm> for encoder disc purposes
[23:26:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=263
[23:26:07] <Loetmichel> (pdf)
[23:26:39] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Yeah, I suggested svg because it's easier to write one's self but that can be then converted to postscript or plain rastered.
[23:26:39] <Loetmichel> the black one stationary the white one rotating
[23:26:42] <Jymmm> andypugh: You can use a laser printer and overhead film material
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[23:27:08] <andypugh> I can't. That was plan A, I can't make a 75lpi image with aliasing and moire.
[23:27:09] <Jymmm> andypugh: Create the artwork in postscript and that can do some SERIOUS resolution
[23:27:24] <Jymmm> andypugh: No aliiasing at all
[23:27:31] <Wormgear> Loetmichel just give me the exact part #
[23:27:38] <Loetmichel> Wormgear: i cant
[23:27:43] <Wormgear> DAMNIT!
[23:27:54] <A2Sheds> you need to have a film scanner that will actually output the file the way you want
[23:27:56] Wormgear is now known as JaegerBar
[23:28:18] <Loetmichel> in germany you can buy this screws in any (bigger) hardware store
[23:28:32] <Jymmm> andypugh: Someone else did it here a few years ago if you want to check the logs. Turned out really well actually.
[23:28:52] <andypugh> I might look at SVG, it sounds like it might be a bit easier than PS>
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[23:29:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: Easier sorta, but not as accurate. PS is VERY easy to learn though
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[23:29:39] <A2Sheds> andypugh: whats the actual printer going to be?
[23:29:41] <FinboySlick> andypugh: http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/SVGimages.html
[23:29:41] <JaegerBar> Loetmichel, what does Jaegerbar and Blutbotten mean in german?
[23:29:42] <andypugh> Does PS handle rotational arrays?
[23:30:00] <andypugh> A2Sheds: http://www.digi2slide.co.uk/index.html
[23:30:01] <JaegerBar> i saw it on some TV show about supernatural
[23:30:02] <Jymmm> andypugh: I dont know what that is
[23:30:04] <FinboySlick> andypugh: SVG will.
[23:30:16] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: you've been watching too much Grimm.
[23:30:21] <alex4nder-> er JaegerBar
[23:30:29] <JaegerBar> lol no kidding
[23:30:33] <JaegerBar> what does that mean in german
[23:31:03] <Jymmm> !logger
[23:31:07] <Jymmm> !log
[23:31:22] <JaegerBar> logbear?
[23:31:44] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: no idea
[23:32:41] <A2Sheds> andypugh: I'd ask them if they know what type of file and settings produce a 1:1 without the RIP getting in the way and modifying the data
[23:32:47] <Loetmichel> that ar not real german words, or so distorted by heard and written from an ameriocan that i cant recognize them
[23:32:58] <alex4nder-> haha
[23:33:34] <JaegerBar> Loetmichel, which one should i get : http://www.mcmaster.com/#threaded-studs/=f7zoln
[23:33:42] <Loetmichel> "jaeger" would be "hunter", bar would be bar (the drinking one)
[23:34:07] <A2Sheds> andypugh: http://www.digi2slide.co.uk/guidance.html they look they do some auto-doctoring of images sent to them
[23:34:24] <andypugh> Yeah, I will have to talk to them.
[23:34:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: fenn made it
[23:34:51] <Jymmm> andypugh: circa 2007
[23:35:11] <JaegerBar> bear = bar
[23:35:17] <andypugh> 2007? I didn't evan have a lathe then!
[23:37:39] <Jymmm> andypugh: FOUND IT!!! http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/encoder-panelized.ps
[23:37:48] <Jymmm> andypugh: you want the PDF version???
[23:38:07] <andypugh> That's cool, but I don't want an absolute encoder.
[23:38:30] <alex4nder-> phfew... I just went down into my garage, smelled smoke, and thought my mill was on fire
[23:38:37] <alex4nder-> turns out it was the neighbors BBQing
[23:38:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: What I'm trying to say is that in PS, you can edit to whatever you want, it's easy to do and you can use that as an example.
[23:38:55] <andypugh> Yeah, good point,
[23:39:34] <Jymmm> andypugh: Just go to some place that has a 2400+ dpi printer and have them print it on transperancy film for you
[23:40:03] <JaegerBar> lol
[23:41:51] <andypugh> The film printer is 2800x2800 dpi. Though I have considered going to a printer shop with my "test document"
[23:42:57] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Care to give me a rough idea of the shape you want? I'd like to try my hand at it.
[23:43:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: Sure, whatever works for you. I've spoken to the folks that do SVG and inkscape, and there are "flaws" in the SVG specification when it comes to absolute positioning, where PS doesn't have those issues.
[23:43:24] <andypugh> I am looking at that PS source now, to see if I can figure it out.
[23:43:37] <Jymmm> andypugh: It uses RPN math if that helps
[23:43:47] <Jymmm> andypugh: by default, PS is 72 dpi
[23:44:04] <JaegerBar> pls Loetmichel, tell me which to get
[23:44:07] <Jymmm> andypugh: for purposes of resolution that is
[23:44:21] <Jymmm> err scaling I mean
[23:44:22] <JaegerBar> http://www.mcmaster.com/#
[23:45:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: So once you've drawn your disc, use 72 dpi as the scale to print out if you want a 4" disc, etc.
[23:45:12] <andypugh> FinboySlick: I want a 56mm disc with a 42mm central hole, and 500 equally-spaced segments. (1:1 mark-space ratio). Ideally I would also have 14 of 10x10mm tabs prjecting radially.
[23:45:35] <JaegerBar> Loetmichael, what motors do you use for yours?
[23:47:10] <andypugh> Jymmm: Have you looked inside that PS file? It's all commented and parametric...
[23:47:20] <andypugh> It looks like it might be perfect.
[23:49:26] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: how should i know?
[23:49:37] <JaegerBar> dunno haha
[23:49:40] <Loetmichel> depends on your requirements
[23:51:03] -!- maddogma [maddogma!~quassel@c-98-209-18-126.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #emc
[23:53:46] <Tom_itx> andypugh how many divisions do you want on the encoder?
[23:54:07] <andypugh> 500 (as I have a 75lpi sensor)
[23:55:52] <Tom_itx> i dunno about 500 but he's got a postscript here: http://www.geology.smu.edu/~dpa-www/robo/Encoder/pitt_html/encoders.html
[23:56:26] <Tom_itx> about halfway down