Back
[00:02:38] <PCW> The GPIO speed would be similar to normal parallel port so should be OK for EMC
[00:03:40] <PCW> (as long as your not trying to bit-bang a faster protocol out the pins)
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[00:04:43] <danimal_laptop> found out the 5th axis is a fadal
[00:04:55] <PCW> you're
[00:04:55] <danimal_laptop> my buddy has the same exact one
[00:05:17] <PCW> Wheres the rest of the Fadal?
[00:05:30] <danimal_laptop> who knows
[00:05:42] <Wormgear> Hey Danimal
[00:05:48] <danimal_laptop> hey
[00:12:22] <danimal_laptop> fadal tr65
[00:12:54] <Wormgear> How's life man?
[00:13:08] <Wormgear> I hope I didn't offend you the other day
[00:16:03] <Tom_itx> hmm, Danimal_garage we had a 4th axis on the Fadal but not 2 rotary. didn't really pay much attention to it
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[00:23:41] <danimal_laptop> Tom_itx: it's this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb_oP19QQjA
[00:25:30] <Tom_itx> yeah, ours was just a single bolt down axis
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[00:26:17] <Tom_itx> really only used it on a couple jobs
[00:26:32] <Tom_itx> slitting the end of a tube on one
[00:39:06] <Wormgear> Danimal are you still a 'no' on me visiting your shop
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[01:47:26] <jy76> hello any body out there? was wondering if its possible to actually get a 10.04 cd w emc from any source, geographic anomally and i only have dial up 3 days is a long time to hope something dont interupt my download, thanx
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[01:54:36] <PCW> jy76 a location would help...
[01:55:03] <jy76> central new york
[01:55:37] <PCW> WIFI cafe?
[01:57:08] <PCW> Library computer?friends computer? got to be someone close with enough bandwidth...
[01:58:05] <jy76> no laptop yet was just curious. i have two machines to convert have used mach 3 but it seems to me that emc is far more accomdating to multiple axis and overall adaptability to varous machines
[02:00:21] <jy76> i have been hoping to find someone locally that is running emc to have an at length discussion but have had no luck yet. do you have any idea of how to find something like that?
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[02:04:27] <PCW> You can try the user map on the linuxcnc.org website (but it seems to be broken sometimes)
[02:07:30] <jy76> yes pcw have tried that and not had much luck. probably due to my own ignorance of what this project relly has to offer, i have only been a member for a couple of wks am hoping for internet upgrade at beginning of year though that will be good
[02:09:16] <PCW> Yeah the maps dont work for me now either (they used to but its been a while since I checked)
[02:09:50] <PCW> Maybe put out a plea for local help on the forum
[02:09:57] <PCW> bbl ttgh
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[02:12:09] <jy76> hello wormgear
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[02:21:56] <jy76> does anyone know how to post in the emc users digest i am getting the emails but cant find where to post, i have posted the forum and that worked thanks
[02:31:01] <Wormgear> hi
[02:31:12] <Wormgear> i'm kinda new here too so i don't know how to post just yet
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[02:35:43] <andypugh> jy76: Just reply to the email, we should all see it
[02:36:06] <andypugh> (But please, don't include the whole digest in the reply)
[02:36:07] <jy76> yes worm i think new is good there is a great amount vof info here its just sifting and accessing it that appears to be the issue, r u a manufacturing professional?
[02:37:57] <Wormgear> no i'm not
[02:38:00] <Wormgear> i'm a beginner
[02:38:07] <Wormgear> i don't even have the darn mill in my garage yet
[02:40:18] <andypugh> jy76: Start with the manuals, and then look for extra stuff on the Wiki. Be warned that anyone can write stuff on the Wiki. It was all true once, but a lot of it is rather old.
[02:43:00] <jy76> andy the wiki wow im likely to get lost hah :)
[02:46:04] <jy76> worm ive got mine in the garage well and a lathe oh and another mill but thats as far as ive gotten, i am however an operator/ programmer so that helps right now im just trying to figure out how not to go broke building a smoking heap
[02:46:27] <andypugh> Don't be afraid to ask specific questions here, or on the mailing list, or on the forum.
[02:51:12] <jy76> ok andy heres a thought im thinking about attaching an encoder to .5hp 24 dc motor as axis servo would this need a break and would a stepper drive drive it? or would i need different driver? lots of info on steppers but havent got much for servos
[02:52:43] <andypugh> with you in a minute, I just completely killed a VM..
[02:53:22] <jy76> k. whats a vm?
[02:53:44] <andypugh> Virtual Machine
[02:54:28] <jy76> better than crashing a 5000$ probe
[02:55:16] <andypugh> Indeed. This is free
[02:56:29] <jy76> yeah and the boss isnt griping at you as you stand ther with the deer in the head lights lok wonderin........ how did that happen
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[02:59:02] <andypugh> OK< looks like that is never coming back, and I haven't paid enough to even file a bug report.
[02:59:37] <andypugh> Anyway, no you can't run a DC motor from a stepper drive.
[03:00:24] <andypugh> The chips inside stepper drives are often suitable, as the jobs are similar (a DC motor drive is basically half of a stepper diver)
[03:00:51] <andypugh> But you need some sort of analogue or PWM inut drive.
[03:02:26] <andypugh> DC motor drives are often called "Amps" because they convert a 5V 2-3mA signal from the PC to (possibly) a few hundred volts and/or a few hundred amperes.
[03:05:12] <jy76> so pc output ( da converter driving analog to pwm driver,would work? but would need arcitecture for accel/ decel would emc be able to solve this by software b/c that sort of drive would be easy
[03:07:06] <andypugh> All the accel/decel is done in EMC2, all you really need for a DC motor is a way to convert the PWM from EMC2 into a suitable motor drive current.
[03:08:07] <Eartaker> first off what is the DC motor for?
[03:08:16] <Eartaker> spindle?
[03:09:27] <Eartaker> oh axis servo
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[03:09:57] <Eartaker> you can use a DC motor as a servo if it has a shaft on the back so you can attach an encoder but you will also need a servo drive
[03:10:53] <Eartaker> but it would work out better in the end to just but a servo motor designed for it
[03:10:58] <Eartaker> buy*
[03:11:33] <andypugh> The simplest servo drive I have seen used EMC2, a DC motor, a ULN2008 chip as a buffer and a disc of cardboard marked with a pen and a mouse opto-sensor.
[03:12:02] <Eartaker> nice
[03:16:30] <jy76> wow andy thats simple, i was figuring to make a three layer tone wheel at work with an opto sensor for resolution, would emc accept 1x 10x 1000x inputs from this device or would it need a counter?
[03:21:44] <jy76> eartaker buy where have you seen the price of a servo lately those thigs are crazy high
[03:21:51] <jy76> +
[03:22:01] <jy76> -
[03:22:21] <jy76> dropped the keyboard
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[03:32:17] <Danimal_garage> yawn
[03:33:23] <andypugh> jy76: Quadrature is easiest.
[03:34:10] <andypugh> There are dual-channel optos that do quadrature internally.
[03:34:54] <andypugh> Both my spindle encoders are home-made.
[03:35:35] <Danimal_garage> fancy pants
[03:36:41] <andypugh> You can see one of them at 22s in this video. It's nothing complicated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4&feature=g-upl
[03:38:53] <jy76> how many segments and just one layer or many?
[03:39:16] <andypugh> I don't know why you think it needs more layers
[03:39:17] <Danimal_garage> lol i always forget you must talk with a funny english accent
[03:39:45] <andypugh> That one is 50 teeth, OK for speed/synch but probably not ideal for positioning.
[03:40:03] <andypugh> FWIW my accent is funny even in england.
[03:40:17] <Danimal_garage> andypugh: hows your motor coming?
[03:40:27] <andypugh> I am not sure.
[03:41:15] <Danimal_garage> wind it yet?
[03:41:44] <andypugh> Winding one pole of the stator and increasing the current until it gets hot gives me something rather less magnetic than I hoped, and which doesn't repel a magnet. I am not sure if that is to be expected or not.
[03:42:20] <Danimal_garage> ah bummer
[03:42:40] <Danimal_garage> maybe you need more plates in there? seemed awfully thin
[03:42:43] <pcw_home> You need to complete the magnetic circuit before you will get much flux
[03:43:01] <andypugh> it might be normal. A rare-earth magnet is highly likely to be stronger than a small electro-magnet.
[03:43:21] <andypugh> And yes, there was only one pole wound, so perhaps that matter.
[03:43:24] <pcw_home> (Hence the small gaps in good motors)
[03:43:42] <Danimal_garage> what gage wire are you using?
[03:44:04] <andypugh> .45mm (26AWG)
[03:44:14] <jy76> andy positional accuracy, i was an auto tech in a previous life gm crank sensors have three layers for precise trackingso i was figuring if im going to program one why not make it high res?
[03:44:45] <andypugh> Ford crank sensors only have one track.
[03:44:50] <andypugh> Works fine.
[03:45:20] <andypugh> Nothing wrong with High res, but if so, why bother with the low-res?
[03:46:51] <andypugh> Some Ford engines now have two sensors for quadrature (to keep crank-synch during reverse rotation on engine-stop for stop-start applications, they want to fire on second TDC)
[03:47:14] <andypugh> But still only one track. (I know, I have some in my drawer at work)
[03:48:02] <Danimal_garage> i'm really wondering what they used this 5th axis for. There's different (bigger?) servos on it than stock, and the servos have the encoders on them instead of the rotary itself.
[03:48:20] <Danimal_garage> it also has what i believe are angular sensors on it
[03:49:41] <jy76> yes only one track but they also track cam pocition, (tdc location) and torgue cnvertor rotation (quadrature?)
[03:50:44] <andypugh> Yes, with a 4-stroke engine you need to know where the CAM is..
[03:51:05] <andypugh> Anyway, the point is that EMC2 only needs one track, plus index (sometimes)
[03:51:42] <jy76> andy thanx for your input it was very useful im turning in good evening
[03:52:17] <jy76> thanx andy good nite
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[03:54:37] <Wormgear> lol how not to go broke
[03:54:48] <Wormgear> what do you mean, jy76, that you're a operator/programmer?
[03:55:00] <Danimal_garage> has anyone ever played with programable coolant nozzles on EMC?
[03:56:44] <andypugh> You mean tool-length compensated nozzles? I have seen the need, but seen no evidence for it.
[03:57:12] <andypugh> Half the tool-change videos on Youtube have a hand come in to re-aim the coolant.
[03:57:32] <andypugh> Wormgear: He left
[03:58:06] <Danimal_garage> andypugh: ha!
[03:58:12] <andypugh> Wormgear: Given your name, you might like this:
http://urobotics.urology.jhu.edu/projects/BW/
[03:58:19] <Danimal_garage> but yea, thats what i mean
[04:01:36] <andypugh> It's easy enough in principle, but the details might be tricky. Like, exactly where do you want to point it? Though a simple stepper linked to tool length would be a good start.
[04:02:12] <andypugh> Maybe an M-code programmable offset.
[04:02:53] <andypugh> You can pull tool-length out of hal, and fed it to a stepgen without wasting an axis word
[04:03:24] <andypugh> 4am. Sleep time. Night all
[04:03:47] <pcw_home> What about muscle wire on a standard bendable hose?
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[04:03:53] <pcw_home> 'nite
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[05:05:52] <A2Sheds> what is it about youtube when you start watching a video by andy on CNC and 5 videos later you're watching Brazilian midget tossing
[05:12:54] <danimal_laptop> haha! i know!
[05:13:13] <danimal_laptop> not that im complaining
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[06:09:10] <alex4nder> anyone have a good way to visualize g-code away from the mill controller? can I run AXIS or something standalone?
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[06:21:53] <Wormgear> hey alexander
[06:27:07] <seb_kuzminsky> alex4nder: you can run axis on any hardy or lucid computer, without realtime, using the "simulation" builds
[06:27:28] <alex4nder> seb_kuzminsky: ah cool, I'll check that out
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[06:42:34] <alex4nder> seb_kuzminsky: cool, I got that working
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[06:47:17] <alex4nder> seb_kuzminsky: cool,. got it running.
[06:56:01] <alex4nder> works great
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[12:46:34] <PCCNC123> how to join gmane group its asking email address of the group?? where to find it..
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[13:56:00] <JT-Shop> more info on the 5i20 computer lockup problems from the east coast
[13:57:14] <JT-Shop> FYI- The system crashed again this afternoon for the first time in a while. I'm fairly certain it's not the G code as it locked up when we were starting (opening) EMC. There was no code loaded when it happened. Basically we opened EMC, clicked estop, and then tried to click the enable button. Nothing happened. EMC wouldn't enable. In other words the estop icon wouldn't unclick and the enable...
[13:57:16] <JT-Shop> ...icon wouldn't click. We tried it a few times and it just froze up. After that we tried to close EMC but it wouldn't close. It eventually crashed and closed. We tried to reopen it but it wouldn't open so we then tried to shut down the computer but that wasn't happening either. Eventually after we rebooted we were able to get EMC to open again. It ran fine for a few short tests but then...
[13:57:17] <JT-Shop> ...the physical home / load buttons wouldn't work. They eventually started to work after opening and closing EMC a few times. FYI - Each time we had to reboot the computer Ubunto took a long time to load (3 or 4 minutes).
[13:57:19] <JT-Shop> The interesting little tidbit that may or may not mean anything is that we moved the computer/machine today. I'm not 100% sure but I think several other times that we had problems we had adjusted, moved,... the computer. Do you think it's possible there's some wiring issue in the boards,.. that could be causing this. It sounds like something is being jostled and causing issues.
[13:59:12] <archivist> bad connections
[13:59:50] <archivist> reseat and clean connectors where possible
[14:00:40] <JT-Shop> this same 5i20 has been in two different computers and is the only common element that I can think of
[14:00:50] <JT-Shop> and it is a brand new 5i20
[14:02:44] <JT-Shop> if I try and run a 5i20 config without a 5i20 emc won't even start...
[14:03:33] <JT-Shop> could a bad keyboard or mouse cause the computer to lockup?
[14:11:51] <awallin> I would maybe keep the 5i20 in the machine but unplug all the ribbon cables and get the machine stable as such first
[14:12:02] <awallin> then incrementally hook back up everything
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[14:23:27] <JT-Shop> the big problem is it happens only occasionally
[14:25:25] <Mjolinor> any knowledgeable people present who know the TB6560?
[14:25:58] <Mjolinor> all the cheap driver baords on ebay advertise that current reduces when the stepper is not turning
[14:26:21] <Mjolinor> but from what I can see in the data sheet this is not the case unless you drive the TQ lines frmo an external source
[14:26:28] <Mjolinor> but the data sheet sucks :)
[14:27:37] <Mjolinor> so I suppose hte question is do I need to dedicate another output line from my parallel port to do this or not
[14:28:19] <awallin> are the motors getting too hot? while standing still?
[14:28:33] <Mjolinor> not really but hte chip is (IMHO)
[14:29:02] <Mjolinor> the motors are bigger than the chip will provide anyway so they don't ahve any problem taking what this chip will throw at them
[14:29:28] <Mjolinor> so becaseu of that the chip is near maximum and I jsut wanted to be safer, there is no need to power the stepper on a lathe unless it is turning
[14:30:52] <Mjolinor> the data sheet is not really complete, I think that an essential bit of informatin is how long after you assert the increase current pin before the current increases
[14:31:25] <Mjolinor> I am worried that if I use an IO line on the parallel port to increase the current then the first request for a step may miss because the current is not enough
[14:31:35] <Mjolinor> but that information is not in the data sheet
[14:33:04] <awallin> I don't see how any drive could infer if your spindle is on/off from just step+dir input signals..
[14:33:22] <Mjolinor> the step pulse will not be there
[14:33:31] <Mjolinor> not about hte spindle
[14:33:50] <Mjolinor> the spindle is an ac motor, its about the stepper motor, it does not need power if it is not turning
[14:34:11] <Mjolinor> turning << the stepper motor I mean
[14:34:18] <Mjolinor> me being ambiguous there :)
[14:37:33] <awallin> I had a measurement system with a stepper driven x/y/z table where the stepper drive/signals would create noise problems for the measurement. However turning the phase-current down on the steppers was a bad idea because the table would lose 0.5 or 1 step of position each time you did that.
[14:37:57] <Mjolinor> that is what I feared
[14:38:01] <awallin> if you have a half/microstepping drive it is not a good idea to turn off the pase-current unless you are at a full-step position
[14:38:27] <Mjolinor> I assume I can configure EMC to assert he current pin then assert the step pin wiht a delay between
[14:38:51] <awallin> I guess it's possible.
[14:39:05] <awallin> If your table is heavy and has enough friction it might not even move :)
[14:39:21] <Mjolinor> hmm, I hadnt thought abuot that but you're right, if it is not a t a complete step then the current decay in the 2 windings needs to be controlled to be equeal otherwise it will move a bit when you turn off the current
[14:39:53] <Mjolinor> as usual , it's acan of worms instead of an easy solutin :)
[14:49:37] <A2Sheds> don't use a cheap board designed with the same philosophy as most consumer products to have a short life
[14:49:59] <Mjolinor> good advise generally :)
[14:50:36] <A2Sheds> find a board with higher output capability and a larger heat sink
[14:50:36] <Mjolinor> but it doesnt matter in this case, it's jsut an exercise in doing it, if it all blows up tehn as long as I learn why it doesn't matter :)
[14:50:51] <Mjolinor> oh it will have a larger heat sink before I finished :)
[14:51:05] <Mjolinor> I bought soem peltier pumps to stick on it, that iwll keep a polar ber cool
[14:52:06] <Mjolinor> the chip stays totally cold if the motor is turning but if it is stationary it gets damn hot
[14:52:11] <Mjolinor> that is what I want to sotp
[14:52:49] <A2Sheds> an aluminum heat sink with more surface area will suffice, it's passive and just uses convection
[14:55:01] <A2Sheds> which package is the TB6560? the HQ or the FG?
[14:55:06] <Mjolinor> HQ
[14:55:28] <Mjolinor> and I am running it at 2.77 amps
[14:57:49] <A2Sheds> what the voltage across the bridge?
[14:58:03] <Mjolinor> which bridge?
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[14:58:35] <Mjolinor> the stepper output?
[14:58:41] <Mjolinor> 6 v RMS
[14:58:57] <A2Sheds> the output bridge in the chip
[14:59:53] <Mjolinor> it's pretty impossible to measure accurately anyway
[15:00:07] <Mjolinor> but I set hte current according to the datasheet, the voltage doesn't relaly matter
[15:00:24] <A2Sheds> design for worst case
[15:00:46] <Mjolinor> Im trying to but it's not easy when the stepper wants more than the chip will provide
[15:01:15] <Mjolinor> I did wonder whether to jsut throw away the stepper driver chip notion and go with a bsic darlington drive with no micro stepping
[15:01:31] <Mjolinor> buthte microstepping makes it very smooth
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[15:02:48] <A2Sheds> page 25 of it's data sheet has junction to case thermal resistance
[15:03:01] <A2Sheds> its/it's
[15:03:52] <Mjolinor> ?psage 25 is ouput transistor modes in my datashseet :)
[15:04:08] <Mjolinor> I dont figure to get that far into it anyway :)
[15:04:29] <Mjolinor> it really is a very poor data sheet
[15:05:14] <Mjolinor> there seems to be a lot fo that lately, I jsut made soemthign using a honeywell magnetic field chip and hte number of things that werenot answered in the data sheet was criminal, I got on first name terms with technical support at honeywell
[15:05:40] <A2Sheds> Rth (j-c) = 1.5 deg C /W , Rth (j-a) = 2.5 deg C /W
[15:07:23] <Mjolinor> you are in a different datasheet
[15:07:42] <Mjolinor> that data sheet is not as up to date, I have that one but the other is better
[15:08:00] <A2Sheds> preliminary 2006-05-31
[15:08:05] <Mjolinor> yup
[15:08:22] <Mjolinor> 2011-01-18
[15:08:28] <Mjolinor> is more up to date
[15:09:11] <A2Sheds> well use the thermal resistance in that data sheet
[15:09:28] <Mjolinor> it shoudl be in this newer one but I am struggling to find it
[15:10:00] <A2Sheds> thermal resistance probably hasn't changed
[15:10:03] <Mjolinor> found it :)
[15:10:46] <Mjolinor> the older dtat sheet is for the tb6560hq, I am using tb6560ahq
[15:10:52] <Mjolinor> newer chip I suppose
[15:10:53] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: when you get a chance could the 5i20 cause these symptoms in any way?
http://pastebin.com/vLaHExyt
[15:12:19] <A2Sheds> FYI - Each time we had to reboot the computer Ubunto took a long time to load (3 or 4 minutes).
[15:12:42] <Mjolinor> I had that with EMC, the only thing that fixed it was a re install
[15:12:59] <Mjolinor> and it wasnt related to any CNC type hardware, it was jsut the computer witha new install on
[15:13:23] <A2Sheds> JT-Shop: how long does it take when the problem isn't there? I'd like to see the boot logs
[15:13:41] <Mjolinor> more specifically, I did a new install wiht hte emc disc, all was good adn worked well. I messed with it a while and buggered EMC up so I jsut deleted the partition and re isntalled
[15:13:48] <JT-Shop> to boot up?
[15:14:12] <Mjolinor> that second install did exactly what oyu ahve described and I could not get emc to run so I delelted the partition again and reinstalled adn it was OK again
[15:14:26] <A2Sheds> JT-Shop: did that FYI mean that the PC takes longer to boot when there is the problem vs when it;'s not acting up?
[15:14:44] <Mjolinor> yes, it did take a lot longer to boot after emc had failed to start
[15:15:45] <JT-Shop> A2Sheds: I'm not sure, I can ask him
[15:19:42] <pcw_home> I could be a PCI card problem but that kind of looks like hard drive troubles (long boot time especially)
[15:20:15] <pcw_home> can he save a dmesg trace when it acts up?
[15:20:52] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: the same problem is on two separate computers not sharing the hard drive or any other component inside the box
[15:23:49] <A2Sheds> just having quiet turned off in grub might be helpful to see where ubuntu is hanging at boot, but it's time to look at all the logs
[15:24:27] <JT-Shop> if it locks up he has to power cycle the computer
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[15:30:47] <pcw_home> Its possibly a bad 5i20. Have him ask us for an RMA and we will replace it on suspicion
[15:31:06] <JT-Shop> ok, thanks
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[15:35:52] <pcw_home> Funny symptoms though what Ive seen with bad stuff on the PCI side is instant reboot or instant crash with nothing ever working again (no mouse no nothing)
[15:35:53] <pcw_home> in his example EMC started which meant it loaded firmware (~167000 accesses) and probed the card with no problem
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[15:40:09] <pcw_home> And his mouse was still working which is very unlike a bus crash
[15:40:10] <pcw_home> but we will replace the card just to eliminate it as a possible suspect
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[15:53:31] <JT-Shop> thanks Peter, I'll copy him on this
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[15:57:23] <IchGucksLive> Hi all
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[16:25:12] <pcw_home> Another thing to try is cleaning the contact fingers on the card and the PCI slot (99% isopropyl)
[16:25:14] <pcw_home> I use some card stock (pressboard) thats about 1/32nd thick for cleaning PCI slots
[16:25:15] <pcw_home> (soak in 99% IPA, insert and remove from slot about 10 times, turn over for fresh edge and repeat )
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[16:28:00] <archivist> look if card gets dirty
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[16:33:44] <jthornton> could have been a dirty PCI slot on first computer and transfered to second computer then back to first computer?
[16:34:10] <danimal_laptop> just like an std
[16:34:17] <jthornton> lol
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[16:38:31] <pcw_home> Well its worth swapping the card to see if it fixes the problem
[16:38:32] <pcw_home> but dirty contacts can cause troubles that change when you move things around
[16:38:34] <pcw_home> (as can a bad solder joint on a card)
[16:39:36] <jthornton> ok I'll pass that on to him thanks
[16:40:58] <archivist> any green spots on the fingers can show thin gold plate and corrosion
[16:42:15] <jthornton> iirc computer #1 was an older computer
[16:51:08] <Tom_itx> moving the card would self clean it
[16:51:17] <Tom_itx> i've done that many times on memeory cards
[16:51:31] <Tom_itx> iso isn't a bad idea though
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[17:06:52] <A2Sheds> http://www.beyourownit.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/dirty-computer.jpg
[17:13:08] <TekniQue> what kind of a dirty pervert designed that motherboard
[17:13:17] <TekniQue> with the RAM slots at an angle
[17:14:02] <TekniQue> and an AGP slot in the middle
[17:21:57] <A2Sheds> looks like it says Compaq under the dirt in the middle
[17:38:50] <danimal_laptop> yuck
[17:39:10] <danimal_laptop> should have left that thing in the 90's
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[18:54:07] <geo01005> ok, stupid question. Why isn't /dev/parport0 available on my EMC machines?
[18:55:16] <geo01005> is the regular parallel port kernel module not included in the RT patched kernel?
[18:55:19] <Loetmichel> geo01005: because emc needs exclusive access?
[18:55:38] <Loetmichel> just a guess
[18:56:12] <geo01005> I'm trying to program an AVR on the parallel port of my EMC machine, I suppose I'll give up and try a different computer.
[18:56:15] <Loetmichel> A2Sheds: that looks familliar
[18:56:31] <Loetmichel> my computers are looking no different ;-)
[18:56:53] <Loetmichel> geo01005: use the serial and avrdude
[18:57:08] <Loetmichel> its an even simpler circuit ;-)
[18:57:08] <geo01005> I need to burn a new bootloader.
[18:57:17] <Loetmichel> so what?
[18:57:32] <geo01005> I already have an STK-200 programer attached to it.
[18:57:37] <Loetmichel> liik for ponyprog siprog circuits
[18:57:44] <Loetmichel> the avrdude can cope with that
[18:57:51] <Loetmichel> ah, i see
[18:57:58] <geo01005> I'll just use my window laptop.
[18:58:19] <geo01005> It was in my wife's car. She just got back early.
[18:59:01] <A2Sheds> Loetmichel: I try to blow them all out with compressed air every ~90 days or they end up with clogged fans or heatsinks
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[18:59:44] <A2Sheds> the HVAC filters only help so much with dust
[18:59:47] <Loetmichel> A2Sheds: lately i wonderew why my PC was beeping...
[19:00:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11390
[19:00:08] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11393
[19:00:36] <A2Sheds> yeah, pretty typical after a few months
[19:00:50] <Loetmichel> (nothing a rinse and some compressed air cant fix:
[19:00:56] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11396
[19:01:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11399
[19:02:17] <Loetmichel> the best computer i had in my hands was a old 486/66 which worked 0ver 10 years in a forgery.
[19:02:39] <Loetmichel> over 20mm high black FeO2 in it...
[19:03:12] <Loetmichel> dont know what it is called in english, in german its "Hammerschlag"
[19:03:51] <Loetmichel> it was still running, thanks to Ferro oxide not being conductive for electicity but for heat...
[19:03:54] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[19:03:56] <A2Sheds> best is completely sealed conduction plus convection cooling if possible, the next best is using big fans >155mm and filters and regular blasting with air
[19:05:32] <A2Sheds> iron oxide but powdered and mixed with a resin, like whats used in cores in transformers and inductors
[19:05:51] <Loetmichel> i know
[19:06:36] <Loetmichel> inside this machine there was a nearly 1" thick LAYER of oxide powder, baked to something like a ferrite core ;-)
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[19:07:04] <Loetmichel> the monitor was as dark as a tea kettle candle...
[19:07:17] <Loetmichel> ... until i wiped it with some alcohol pads
[19:07:19] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[19:07:29] <A2Sheds> was it built by Panzer?
[19:07:35] <Loetmichel> it was black all over, the whole machine
[19:07:42] <A2Sheds> built like a tank
[19:07:52] <Loetmichel> no, it was a peacock IIRC
[19:08:24] <Loetmichel> it yust soot 10 jears beneath the forgery OVEN....
[19:08:38] <Loetmichel> ehm.. Furnace
[19:10:15] <Loetmichel> just stood
[19:10:23] <Loetmichel> s/beneath/beside
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[19:23:21] <Jymmm> cradek: You'll enjoy this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nn2h3_aH3vo
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[19:28:50] <IchGucksLive> Good evening from Germany
[19:29:42] <Loetmichel> IchGucksLive: hihi, quote thomas gottschalk?
[19:29:43] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[19:31:06] <IchGucksLive> Michell does look like a grandma O.o
[19:31:55] <Loetmichel> do i?
[19:32:05] <Loetmichel> does she?
[19:32:28] <Loetmichel> <- dvb-t starting now...
[19:33:09] <IchGucksLive> Loetmichel: awaiting the blow up of koblenz mine found tomorrow with 45.000 evacuated
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[19:38:49] <Mjolinor> am I correct in thinking that EMC will work OK with inputs on pins 2 to 9 even though stepconf doesn't seem to support it?
[19:41:44] <awallin> take a look at this
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_parallel_port.html#sec:Parport
[19:42:38] <Mjolinor> cheers, perfect I think
[19:44:11] <Loetmichel> IchGucksLive: i hope not. koblenz ist far, may hear the bang ;-)
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[19:45:16] <IchGucksLive> B)
[19:46:42] <Mjolinor> hmm, it seems all or nothing. I need 7 in 8 out which appears not to be possible unless I have an open collector parallel port
[19:47:12] <cpresser> afaik they will start defusing sunday morning. there wont be a bang today
[19:47:39] <IchGucksLive> Mjolinor: therfor you need to test it
[19:47:45] <Mjolinor> yup
[19:48:11] <IchGucksLive> cpresser: the mine is not the problemm the Bomb nearby is the consern
[19:48:57] <IchGucksLive> Mine can be cleard in frech air ,Bomb is under water defusing
[19:49:20] <IchGucksLive> in fast running water ofcause
[19:50:32] <A2Sheds> have any of the old bombs gone off in the past 30 years?
[19:50:51] <pcw_home> unfortunately yes
[19:51:03] <IchGucksLive> alot of have
[19:51:30] <alex4nder> hey
[19:51:52] <IchGucksLive> B)
[19:52:08] <A2Sheds> I haven't heard of this problem in Europe, Africa and South Asia sure
[19:52:19] <pcw_home> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1283273/WW2-bomb-kills-G-ttingen-experts-attempt-defuse-it.html
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[19:53:52] <IchGucksLive> there is a livecam ->
http://www.swr.de/nachrichten/rp/-/id=1682/nid=1682/did=8914268/1m9e8vk/index.html
[19:54:57] <alex4nder> hey, how do you guys generally start off with CAM/G-code.. do you do it all manually?
[19:55:06] <A2Sheds> are they still finding old unexploded WWII bombs in England?
[19:55:20] <cpresser> alex4nder: yes. since i need to observe the milling process
[19:55:51] <alex4nder> cpresser: so do you use some macro tool and expand the g-code there, or do you do every step manually?
[19:56:05] <IchGucksLive> alex4nder: no i work with the opensource heekscad
[19:56:29] <archivist> alex4nder, I hand code
[19:56:45] <A2Sheds> http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/13/as-many-as-21000-unexploded-bombs-lurk-beneath-the-surface-of-england/
[19:56:49] <cpresser> ah sorry., i did misinterpret your question.
[19:56:58] <cpresser> i use CAM for gcode generation
[19:57:13] <IchGucksLive> alex4nder: take look on this basics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAVkVawm6pM
[19:58:17] <IchGucksLive> alex4nder: for basic shapes we provide emc2 python scripts for milling pockets and letters and drill pattern
[19:58:28] <A2Sheds> anyone have <1KW AC servo drives they like and play well with EMC?
[19:58:53] <A2Sheds> I'm not using Parker anymore
[19:59:00] <IchGucksLive> i only use Epson printer Steppers
[19:59:40] <A2Sheds> they have a serial interface that only works with their proprietary serial interpreter
[20:00:47] <IchGucksLive> lots of russon omron on ebay
[20:01:15] <A2Sheds> IchGucksLive: which printer models do you liberate them from?
[20:02:03] <IchGucksLive> there are in the ACUlaser
[20:02:18] <IchGucksLive> but on ebay 14.90Euros
[20:02:38] <IchGucksLive> 2.4V 1.8A 1.1Nm
[20:03:28] <IchGucksLive> i managed with the new M542 6000mm/min
[20:04:06] <IchGucksLive> at 24V
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[20:08:22] <alex4nder> IchGucksLive: cool, I've written some python already to generate gcode based on macros; I'll check out the existing stuff.
[20:09:10] <IchGucksLive> alex4nder: one moment
[20:09:30] <IchGucksLive> A2Sheds: 200669946541 check ebay.com
[20:10:05] <IchGucksLive> alex4nder:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators
[20:10:17] <IchGucksLive> there is the most stuff you need for basic
[20:11:37] <alex4nder> cool
[20:12:02] <IchGucksLive> alex4nder: but heekscad CNC does this all togeter with 3d view
[20:13:54] <alex4nder> IchGucksLive: I'll check it out
[20:14:27] <IchGucksLive> i got more trainings video in the channel
[20:15:07] <IchGucksLive> best on this is you can interact the postprozell to your mashine needs
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[20:17:29] <IchGucksLive> by for mee today have a nice day or Gn8
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[21:36:59] <Danimal_garage> yawn
[21:37:34] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/d6LXink-YfjMfZEBNBo8i9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[21:38:14] <andypugh> Didn't get the material for the magnet housing today, so I don't know if it makes torque or not.
[21:39:05] <tom3p> ? default lang is deutsche ?
http://www.linuxcnc.org/
[21:41:12] <Danimal_garage> andypugh: looks good
[21:41:50] <Danimal_garage> is that stationary and the od is going to spin?
[21:42:17] <andypugh> Yes.
[21:42:25] <Danimal_garage> ah ok
[21:42:31] <Tom_itx> what's the app?
[21:42:37] <Danimal_garage> its a secret
[21:42:44] <andypugh> And the thing in the middle spins, at a different speed.
[21:42:53] <Danimal_garage> ah
[21:43:04] <Danimal_garage> i was wondering why the id was so big
[21:43:22] <Danimal_garage> does the id have it's own motor?
[21:43:39] <Danimal_garage> are you making a segway? lol
[21:43:54] <Mjolinor> it's a coffee machine
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[21:45:35] <andypugh> Yes, the ID is driven by a 2hp motor.
[21:45:47] <Danimal_garage> ah
[21:46:53] <Tom_itx> sorta reminds me of a Fisher & Paykel
[21:47:33] <Danimal_garage> out of curiousity, why didnt you just put some planetaries in there or something and mechanically drive the od from the id shaft?
[21:47:49] <Danimal_garage> or do they totally need to be indepentant
[21:51:17] <tom3p> sounds like an electric transmission
[21:51:56] <andypugh> They need to be totally independent
[21:52:29] <andypugh> And having one winding shorted to the stator is bad, gosh darn it!
[21:52:34] <andypugh> Back in a bit...
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[21:54:18] <danimal_laptop> debur it next time! :)
[21:54:36] <tom3p> where is the source for ncgui? can it be had in a master RIP?
[21:55:18] <Tom_itx> http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/ngcgui/README
[21:55:22] <Tom_itx> that's what i have on it
[21:56:50] <tom3p> thx, got that. i thought i had actually used it once, was surprised i couldnt find any of the mentioned dirs
[21:59:04] <danimal_laptop> i still like plain old axis the best, but i only do production
[22:00:20] <tom3p> http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/ngcgui/ngcgui.tgz et al
[22:01:11] <tom3p> danimal_laptop, these are cam like extensions, you use SW and some post tho right?
[22:01:40] <Tom_itx> the link is also in the README
[22:01:59] <andypugh> danimal_laptop: It was deburred, painted with rubber-loaded cyanoacrylate and wrapped in kapton tape. I hoped that might be enough.
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[22:02:24] <tom3p> yep thx
[22:04:01] <Tom_itx> i've been meaning to try it
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[22:12:18] <tom3p> for milling plastic, is there a way to kill static?
[22:12:21] <tom3p> i built a clear housing and vac system, but the view is gone instantly.
[22:18:17] <tom3p> i remember these zerostats ttp://www.ebay.com/sch/items/zerostat?_dmd=1&_sop=12
[22:18:50] <tom3p> in the 80's we found them in hifi shops and they made the new hand calculators go nuts! ( hi v discharge & cmos :)
[22:20:07] <tom3p> they were piezo discharges to kill static on vinyl records
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[22:25:10] <Wormgear> water kills static like no other
[22:25:48] <tom3p> thx i was trying to keep it dry
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[22:38:05] <alex4nder> cool, I loaded my STL into mastercam, and it generated something that looks somewhat reasonable.
[22:39:55] <tom3p> cool ray gun for anti-static
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8108/diyantistaicgun2.jpg
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[22:59:10] <TekniQue> wait what
[22:59:16] <TekniQue> how is that anti static?
[22:59:26] <TekniQue> that looks like it does nothing but generate static
[23:01:46] <TekniQue> oh
[23:01:48] <TekniQue> pretty neat
[23:02:19] <Danimal_garage> i'd like to anti static my car
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[23:03:53] <Wormgear> Danimal you busy today?
[23:06:49] <Danimal_garage> yes
[23:06:58] <Wormgear> darn
[23:07:03] <FinboySlick> Is there any point on relatively small machine to get steps smaller than 0.00625mm?
[23:07:04] <Wormgear> lemme know man
[23:07:17] <Wormgear> you let me come by and check our your operation i'll buy you a case of beer
[23:07:18] <Danimal_garage> what's the best way to clean circuit boards that have rat crap/pee on them?
[23:07:35] <Wormgear> uhh most modern circuit boards you can actually run through the dishwasher
[23:07:47] <Wormgear> as long as they don't have electrolytic caps on em
[23:08:02] <Wormgear> then you gotta bake them afterwards for an hour in the oven at 300 F
[23:08:39] <Danimal_garage> there's caps on them
[23:08:45] <Wormgear> darn
[23:08:47] <Danimal_garage> they're my servo drives
[23:09:54] <Wormgear> you got servos now.......wow
[23:10:15] <Wormgear> yeah you can just spray em off with RC car motor cleaner
[23:10:22] <Danimal_garage> all my machines have servos
[23:10:29] * FinboySlick envies.
[23:10:38] <Wormgear> servos as oppposed to stepper motors?
[23:10:39] <Danimal_garage> i was just going to hand wash them carefully
[23:10:46] <Danimal_garage> i wont be using them for a couple weeks
[23:11:04] <Wormgear> you can get ICs and other components wet you just have to make sure to drive off the water
[23:11:43] <Wormgear> that's why they usually put them in an oven for a couple hours to really bake off the water
[23:11:57] <Wormgear> heck you can even get electrolytics wet too for a while
[23:12:12] <Wormgear> but some can't tolerate high temps
[23:13:58] <Danimal_garage> hair dryer!
[23:14:38] <Danimal_garage> there's no chips on this board, it's only got resistors and caps
[23:16:20] <Wormgear> most chip caps can tolerate 120 C easily
[23:16:34] <Wormgear> so a hair dryer should be fine
[23:16:56] <Wormgear> during PCB manufacturing all circuit boards take a bath with detergent to get rid of solder paste excess and flux
[23:16:58] <Tom_itx> Danimal_garage, i scrub em with iso
[23:17:01] <Tom_itx> and a toothbrush
[23:17:07] <tom3p> use isopropyl alchol but make sure the water content is <10%
[23:17:13] <tom3p> yeh ^^^
[23:17:23] <Tom_itx> and then blow dry with an air hose
[23:17:30] <Tom_itx> at least that's what i do
[23:17:35] <Wormgear> cute TOmmy
[23:17:43] <Tom_itx> effective
[23:17:44] <tom3p> air hose with < 99% water ( ;) most shops have carp air )
[23:17:54] <Wormgear> hahaha
[23:17:56] <Tom_itx> i have a dryer on mine
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[23:18:04] <Wormgear> i used to have to use nitrogen at the company i worked for
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[23:18:24] <Wormgear> optical semiconductor industry forces the use of nitrogen or heated nitrogen
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[23:40:27] <andypugh> FinboySlick: .00xxx mm sounds plenty small enough to me.
[23:42:01] <Wormgear> Andy what's the advantage of using brushless servo drive over stepper motors?
[23:42:18] <andypugh> Speed, and possibly power.
[23:42:30] <toastydeath> Accuracy?
[23:42:51] <andypugh> Steppers over NEMA 23 become increasingly cumbersome and slow.
[23:43:11] <andypugh> Both steppers and servos are accurate enough
[23:43:11] <Wormgear> what about power consumption?
[23:43:20] <andypugh> Wormgear: That too.
[23:43:30] <Wormgear> how much power consumption reduction are we talking about here
[23:43:36] <andypugh> Steppers take a lot of current all the time, servos only when they need to.
[23:46:06] <skunkKandT> servos are also just cooler...
[23:46:16] <Wormgear> i really don't understand why they cost more
[23:46:26] <Wormgear> it's just a damn brushless motor
[23:46:42] <skunkKandT> literally and figuratively
[23:46:45] <andypugh> On the down-side, it's a lot more work to get servos working, and you will always feel that your tune could be slightly better.
[23:46:54] <skunkKandT> heh
[23:46:56] <skunkKandT> sure
[23:47:05] <Wormgear> why is it more work?
[23:47:18] <alex4nder> I
[23:47:23] <alex4nder> er I'm really happy I went steppers first
[23:47:47] <andypugh> Wormgear: You need to set up and tune the PID controller with servos,
[23:48:49] <Wormgear> holy crap......
[23:48:57] <Wormgear> i can barely make an integrator
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[23:54:18] <andypugh> Well, the PID is all inside the software, but you need to get the numbers right.
[23:54:41] <Wormgear> yeah i bet that's harder said than done
[23:54:56] <Wormgear> doesn't a stepper setup involve tuning a feedback loop too?
[23:55:22] <andypugh> No, they just go where you tell them. Or they don't (you can't tell)
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[23:56:22] <Wormgear> i thought you could also use a stepper motor in a feedback loop
[23:56:30] <Wormgear> i guess people do'nt do that that often
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[23:59:27] <Wormgear> well thanks Andy you did answer my questions
[23:59:42] <Wormgear> i would guess that you're decent with control theory and systems implementation
