#emc | Logs for 2011-11-27

[00:00:56] <alex4nder> ssi: yah it is
[00:02:00] <andypugh> It will probably run cooler half-wired (nearer to spec)
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[02:06:13] <Turtl3boi> yahoo
[02:06:23] <Turtl3boi> i wonder if i should get that damn ZX45 from Bolton Hardware
[02:06:45] <Turtl3boi> Yo Eartaker how much did you get charged for shipping the ZX45 to your door?
[02:07:01] <Eartaker> like $150 i think
[02:08:03] <Turtl3boi> that's not bad for such a big item
[02:08:15] <Turtl3boi> did you have trouble getting from your front yard to your garage
[02:08:31] <Turtl3boi> would i need a forklift for that?
[02:22:08] <Turtl3boi> http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/tls/2721145917.html
[02:22:14] <Turtl3boi> is this too much to pay for a used b-port
[02:23:28] <cradek> depends on your area. but probably.
[02:23:53] <cradek> no tooling is bad
[02:24:18] <cradek> and be aware it might be good, or it might be all worn out, you can only tell by examining it
[02:24:21] <Turtl3boi> so i should counter offer $1400?
[02:24:31] <Turtl3boi> ok
[02:29:48] <Turtl3boi> Eartaker may you please tell me how much the Matthews PM45 costs?
[02:29:49] <cradek> you should examine it before you offer $10
[02:31:02] <Turtl3boi> i see
[02:32:35] <Tom_itx> it would be worth $10 at the scrap yard but you'd have to get it there which may make it not worth it
[02:33:09] <Turtl3boi> hahaha
[02:33:26] <Turtl3boi> looks like Eartaker is quite happy with his ZX-45 mill
[02:33:40] <Turtl3boi> the PM-45 from Matthews looks quite nice too but I need to inquire about a price
[02:40:56] <Eartaker> Turtl3boi, if you get the lifgate service they use a pallet jack. I just pushed it up my griveway
[02:41:17] <Turtl3boi> Ahh okay. Your friends helped out?
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[02:41:38] <Eartaker> no I was there when they offloaded it
[02:41:45] <Eartaker> I just had them drop it in the garage
[02:42:02] <Eartaker> but to get it up on the stand you will need and engine hoist
[02:42:31] <Turtl3boi> ahh ok i think i can borrow one of those ;)
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[05:48:57] <MattyMatt> what's a good ballpark cutting speed for a HSS tap hobbing an 8.8 bolt?
[05:51:23] <MattyMatt> in the region of 600 sfm?
[05:52:24] * MattyMatt go rafb
[05:53:16] <MattyMatt> my lathe only has 2 speeds, normal and too slow
[05:53:41] <MattyMatt> so I never think about cutting speeds
[05:54:05] <MattyMatt> except in vague ways like "this could be faster"
[06:33:47] <Turtl3boi> yo Eartaker how does the Precision Matthews coolant system work?
[06:34:03] <Eartaker> what do you mean?
[06:34:07] <Eartaker> its flood collant
[06:34:15] <Eartaker> coolant
[06:35:19] <Turtl3boi> fluid?
[06:35:24] <Eartaker> yeah
[06:35:29] <Turtl3boi> it looks like the coolant would just go everywhere though
[06:35:37] <Eartaker> it probably will lol
[06:35:42] <Turtl3boi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg2edJQRqZg
[06:35:55] <Turtl3boi> that's pretty stupid then
[06:36:17] <Eartaker> depends on the flow rate
[06:36:19] <alex4nder> hmm
[06:36:31] <alex4nder> I think I just smoked a bearing in my X axis while playing with my new stepper motors.
[06:38:02] <Turtl3boi> holy crap
[06:38:06] <Turtl3boi> what mill you got?
[06:38:13] <Turtl3boi> i'll make sure not to buy that mill
[06:38:21] <alex4nder> ...
[06:39:30] <Turtl3boi> no seriously what do you have?
[06:41:33] <alex4nder> it's a taig
[06:41:40] <Eartaker> how would you kill a bearing with a stepper...
[06:42:46] <Turtl3boi> oh yes i remember you know alexander
[06:42:56] <Turtl3boi> i was the guy who wanted to come get a demo of your taig
[06:43:33] <alex4nder> Eartaker: when you install the stepper, and overtorque the coupling that is attached to the lead screw, and spin around at 100 in/min. : |
[06:44:59] <Eartaker> its just a shaft couple... dont see how that is going to put any load on your bearings...
[06:45:37] <alex4nder> because coupler is sandwiched between the bearing and the nut.
[06:45:48] <alex4nder> granted with spacers and whatnot in between.
[06:46:13] <Eartaker> ahh
[06:48:34] <Turtl3boi> can i come over and take a look alex4nder?
[06:48:53] <Turtl3boi> i might learn something......
[06:50:12] <alex4nder> uh, this is kind of a solo relaxation project for me. :)
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[09:19:29] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[09:20:52] * Loetmichel has just bid on a Chinese HF-spindle with er11 collet... 2 hors to see if i can get a 800W 24krpm Spindle with ER11 and VFD for less than 360$ ;-)
[09:20:57] <Loetmichel> +u
[09:41:03] <Eartaker> hmm
[09:41:51] <Loetmichel> ... watercooled :)
[09:42:39] <Eartaker> nice link to it?
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[09:43:07] <Eartaker> what about this...
[09:43:08] <Eartaker> KL-800 Milling Spindle $349.0
[09:43:08] <Eartaker> OD = 65mm x 160mm, Voltage: 220V
[09:43:08] <Eartaker> Speed: 8000-24000 R/min
[09:43:08] <Eartaker> Power: 800 W (1HP), Frequency: 400 Hz
[09:43:08] <Eartaker> Water Cooling, ER11 collet chuck
[09:43:09] <Eartaker> Grease Lubrication, NSK Bearing, Runout off: less than 0.005mm
[09:43:11] <Eartaker> Water cooling about 20-26 gal/hr
[09:43:18] <Eartaker> =]
[09:43:25] <Eartaker> but no VFD
[09:43:32] <Eartaker> http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCSpindleandController.html
[09:43:57] <Loetmichel> thats the spindle
[09:44:20] <Eartaker> nice
[09:44:25] <Eartaker> and you get a VFD with it?
[09:44:28] <Loetmichel> but i will get it WITH VFD for 349... if no one else will bid ;-)
[09:44:36] <Eartaker> is it used?
[09:44:40] <Loetmichel> new
[09:44:41] <Loetmichel> china
[09:44:44] <Eartaker> hope the bearings are not shot..
[09:44:46] <Eartaker> OOO
[09:44:48] <Eartaker> NICE
[09:44:52] <Eartaker> good luck
[09:45:03] <Eartaker> what kind of machine will you put it in?
[09:45:11] <Loetmichel> my little one
[09:45:18] <Eartaker> ?
[09:45:22] <Eartaker> I have not seen it
[09:45:35] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11423
[09:45:51] <Eartaker> ahh nice
[09:46:43] <Loetmichel> 'cause the proxxon spindle is great , no measureable runoff, very quiet... but only 5kRPM max
[09:46:59] <awallin> those ATC spindles on the keling page are new? but 4k$... ouch.
[09:47:58] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12180 <- better view (had it brought to my workplace , had to make some parts for the company)
[09:50:28] <Loetmichel> i hope the company gets more orders next year so i can get the Team-Haase AL1065 which is promised me by my boss but is delayed until enough money is in.
[09:50:49] <Loetmichel> so i dont have to bring my own equipment to the company any more...
[09:51:10] <Loetmichel> the little one there isnt desight for 24/7 work ;-)
[09:51:14] <Loetmichel> designed
[10:10:32] <Loetmichel> awallin: whats an atc spindle? manufacturer? or special mounts ?
[10:13:04] <IG-garage> http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4524/137304751.1/0_737dd_1cff29cb_XL.jpg <-- My steampunk air compressor for painting.
[10:21:32] <Jymmm> I dont know if I'd call it "steampunk" =)
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[10:24:10] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: if you like pets, I have uploaded couple of videos to http://www.youtube.com/user/mainflower9
[10:24:15] <IG-garage> Jymmm: Why?
[10:24:40] <IG-garage> that is of a steampunk style, you!
[10:25:44] <Jymmm> stainless steel hose clamps?
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[10:29:36] <Loetmichel> IG-garage: no, i am not really into pets.
[10:30:00] <Loetmichel> ... other than the ones on my dish, next to the mashed poteatoes ;-)
[10:30:26] <IG-garage> Jymmm: some cheap hose clamps, they work for low pressure with which I work
[10:30:53] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: well, there's my apartment seen as well
[10:30:54] <Jymmm> IG-garage: Sure, but I don't think they existed in the 19th Century =)
[10:31:13] <IG-garage> Jymmm: oh my, absolutely right!
[10:31:55] <IG-garage> But I need to drain the volumes, so I use the clamps. Simply do not showing the steampunk time machine
[10:32:49] <Jymmm> old skool SQUARE NUT clamps =)
[10:33:39] <Jymmm> http://www.kfc-fastener.com/uploadfiles/pro_largeimg/6094320100907143847598.jpg
[10:35:43] <Jymmm> maybe something like this... http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/135376.jpg
[10:38:58] <IG-garage> Heh, where to get ones?
[11:03:44] <Spida> how do you prevent collision of the tool with fasteners?
[11:05:48] <IG-garage> collision of what?
[11:07:02] <Spida> cutting into screws used to clamp down the workpiece
[11:07:21] <Spida> before/after the real cutting
[11:09:56] <archivist> better clamp placement and better gcode, or thinking
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[11:11:51] <archivist> the well off can buy software to simulate the machine and cut and warn of clashes
[11:12:28] <archivist> else stop mid cut move fastener, carry on
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[11:14:56] <Loetmichel> *HA* got it! -> http://www.ebay.de/itm/120813745732 ... payed already, lets see how long shipping will last... ;-)
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[11:18:22] <IG-garage> spindle motor itself is water cooled, or it has capability to guide the water to the bits?
[11:19:05] <Loetmichel> spindel mtir itself
[11:19:28] <Loetmichel> er11 with inside cooling-> never seen that ;-)
[11:25:31] <IG-garage> i mean e.g. drill bits sometimes have holes for coolant, which goes thru the hollow spindle
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[11:26:12] <Loetmichel> IG-garage: not biots for an ER11 collet ;-)
[11:26:15] <Loetmichel> bits
[11:26:20] <Loetmichel> thats what i meant
[11:27:13] <IG-garage> I don't know what ER11 collet is...
[11:27:34] <Loetmichel> the good part on water cooled spindle motors: no fixed fan on the spindle -> no "air strike alarm" if the spindle is at full RPM ;-)
[11:28:35] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11998 <- thats an ER11 collet (on a 8mm shaft)
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[12:01:59] <elmo40> nice and tiny. I like it
[12:02:11] <elmo40> it is a floating head? or rigid
[12:02:47] <elmo40> because I am looking for a floating ER11 head. For tapping on a bridgeport
[12:03:15] <elmo40> an apprentice smashed mine :( could make one but it's a PITA.
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[12:59:14] <IchGucksLive> awallin: ? i'd adchiefed the next majou step in XYUV plane programming
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[13:37:38] <Loetmichel> elmo40: tahts a fixed one
[13:38:06] <Loetmichel> bought it for making my own HF spindle with a model plane brushless motor
[13:38:43] <Tom_itx> do you use antifreze for coolant or just water?
[13:38:46] <Loetmichel> like this one but with ER11
[13:38:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11519
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[13:38:58] <Loetmichel> who, me?
[13:39:08] <Tom_itx> whoever has a watercooled spindle
[13:39:22] <Tom_itx> and you
[13:39:50] <Loetmichel> ah, i will use clear water and an old heat exchanger from a car heater
[13:40:10] <Loetmichel> and two 120mm PC fans
[13:40:16] <Loetmichel> closed system
[13:40:21] <Tom_itx> a transmission oil cooler would do too if you can't find one
[13:41:13] <Loetmichel> two reasons: io HAVE no coolant on my mill and second: if i had it would be contaminated with metal dust... not so good for the tiny coolant channes in the mill
[13:41:18] <Loetmichel> s/mill/spindle
[13:41:34] <Tom_itx> you need room for expansion
[13:41:49] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: the car heater "cooler" is here already
[13:42:05] <Tom_itx> i figured as much
[13:42:06] <IchGucksLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cbbW7iGjwo
[13:42:18] <IchGucksLive> Stepstone 1 of Axis modification video
[13:42:26] <Loetmichel> no problem, the expansion room will be the PVC piping
[13:42:35] <Loetmichel> which dan expand enough
[13:42:48] <Tom_itx> hope so
[13:43:11] <Loetmichel> IchGucksLive: jo have a BAD german accent if I can hear it ;-)
[13:43:35] <IchGucksLive> PƤlzer B) :DD
[13:43:40] <Loetmichel> HARHAR
[13:43:58] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel, a small reservoir tank like a radiator overflow might do nice too
[13:44:06] <IchGucksLive> NY Living year Florida Based Parents
[13:44:10] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: not needed
[13:44:20] <IchGucksLive> Loetmichel: What do yoiu expect
[13:44:30] <Loetmichel> i have some experience with water cooling in PCs
[13:44:40] <Tom_itx> what sort of pump will you use?
[13:45:02] <Loetmichel> a small aquarium pump
[13:45:11] <Loetmichel> like here:
[13:45:25] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4050
[13:45:30] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4047
[13:45:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4044
[13:48:24] <Tom_itx> i've got a small eheim but i think it may be submersible only, i'm not sure
[13:49:43] <Tom_itx> is yours direct drive or magnetic?
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[13:52:18] <awallin> can't you water-cool the PSU also? or is it very quiet?
[13:52:57] <Tom_itx> probably not
[13:53:13] <Tom_itx> the toroids etc would be hard to wrap with water
[13:53:42] <Tom_itx> i've never seen one but then i haven't really looked
[13:53:57] <awallin> hm, with a passive PSU and an SSD drive it's probably possible to build a fairly quiet desktop pc
[13:54:19] <Tom_itx> my atom is silent
[13:54:45] <Tom_itx> but not built for HP
[13:56:05] <Tom_itx> the psu has a fan but you never hear it
[14:00:06] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: magnetic drive
[14:00:51] <Loetmichel> like every aquarium or fountain pump
[14:01:16] <Tom_itx> i replaced bearings in my washing machine and noticed the pump in it was too
[14:01:34] <Loetmichel> awallin: you CAN buy watercooled PSUs
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[14:18:50] <syyl> hmm, my first attemt for a spindle encoder was a fail...
[14:19:39] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/doppelencoder_3.jpg
[14:19:42] <syyl> new version ;)
[14:19:56] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/doppelencoder_2.jpg
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[14:28:22] <TekniQue> but that cannot sense the direction of rotation now can it?
[14:29:49] <syyl> yes
[14:29:52] <syyl> but from what i read
[14:30:04] <syyl> emc doesnt need an a/b signal for spindle synchron move Oo
[14:30:12] <syyl> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/examples_spindle.html#Spindle%20Synchronized%20Motion
[14:52:25] <awallin> syyl: you're goint to DIY an encoder??
[14:52:38] <syyl> i try...
[14:52:39] <syyl> ;)
[14:53:23] <awallin> wasn't there an example where someone just stuck a bit of reflective tape on the rotating spindle, and there was a single sensor that gave a pulse when the tape passed.
[14:54:16] <mhaberler> the issue with this 1PPR encoders is that speed changes are abrupt after each rev
[14:54:27] <mhaberler> my opinion: forget these
[14:55:07] <mhaberler> I had a 1ppr encoder builtin on my mill, and I wound up mounting a real encoder enventually - all sync problems gone
[14:57:33] <mhaberler> you dont need an 'encoder' - you need a good angular velocity feedback intra-revolution as the spindle spins up/down or reverses direction eg during a tap
[15:00:49] <pcw_home> but you do need quadrature if you have reversals (like tapping)
[15:02:16] <Loetmichel> not necessarily
[15:02:55] <Loetmichel> you can get away with ASSUMING the direction by lokking on the spindle speed and te dircetion pin of the VFD
[15:03:38] <Loetmichel> so direction pin change: nex time the spindle crosses velocity zero assume a direction change of the spindle
[15:04:04] <Loetmichel> has been done in the robotics field, SHOULD work for spindles
[15:04:05] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[15:06:51] <pcw_home> Seems unlikely to work very well as you dont know the actual mechanical reversal point
[15:07:12] <pcw_home> and you will lose counts
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[15:07:30] <mhaberler> good luck
[15:07:45] <mhaberler> there goes your tapping tool - zing
[15:08:00] <syyl> my taps are not that cheap :\
[15:08:20] <Loetmichel> mhaberler: pessimist!
[15:08:40] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: why you will loose counts?
[15:09:25] <Loetmichel> and one KNOWS the point of drirection reversal, because teh spindle have to stop to change direction
[15:09:57] <mhaberler> you assume the vfd pin has anything to say about angular velocity
[15:10:09] <Loetmichel> so if you assume the nex full stop of the spindle after revers pin has come up you KNOW when the spindle hase changed direction
[15:10:27] <pcw_home> because without quadrature (just a simple pulse stream) you can get any width of output pulse
[15:10:28] <pcw_home> somtimes these will get counted sometimes not...
[15:10:30] <Loetmichel> mhaberler: no, i dindt
[15:10:41] <mhaberler> how would the vfd infer angular velocity?
[15:11:35] <Loetmichel> i said it is done this way in the robotics field, with a encoder with only one channel and ASSUMING the direction based on that encoder and the information in which direction the Drive SHOULD operate
[15:11:53] <pcw_home> so a single pulse stream counter with reversals will always accumulate errors
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[15:12:51] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: ok, that is an issue but the pulse withs in this application are not as small or wide as to get lost.
[15:13:37] <mhaberler> ok. you have an edge on your 1ppr. Your vfd has reversed direction wrt phases delivered to the motor. How do you infer the edge means cw or ccw revolution?
[15:13:40] <pcw_home> with reversals pulse width can be anything
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[15:26:33] <Loetmichel> mhaberler: not one ppr
[15:26:38] <Loetmichel> about 100 ppr
[15:26:49] <Loetmichel> like the one syyl posted
[15:26:54] <mhaberler> fine: problem is the same - detect direction change
[15:26:57] <Loetmichel> and even a index pulse
[15:27:08] <Loetmichel> *sigh*
[15:27:38] <mhaberler> is it quadrature or not?
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[15:27:57] <mhaberler> doesnt look so from image
[15:27:58] <syyl> its just a counting encoder so far
[15:28:02] <Loetmichel> like i said: if the pulse speed crosses zero after a diretion chenge in the drive one can more or less safely assume taht the motor has changed direction
[15:28:33] <mhaberler> aha. you 'safely assume', but you dont know - that was my whole point
[15:28:57] <Loetmichel> if the motor cant be driven from another source ( like in a car with gravitation)
[15:29:14] <syyl> but i am not sure for now, maybe it will get a/b signal
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[15:29:35] <mhaberler> get a quadrature encoder on ebay and be done with it
[15:29:37] <Loetmichel> mhaberler: let say this: it has been done for little robots, whrere you have to fight gravity and mass.
[15:29:45] <Loetmichel> and it operates well there
[15:29:49] <syyl> i need one with a 40mm bore
[15:30:08] <syyl> been there, not done ;)
[15:30:45] <Loetmichel> mhaberler: and i didnt propose this mode of operation. i just said it CAN be done.
[15:31:24] <mhaberler> I had the same problem - drive belt, wheel with spindle bore, encoder on second wheel, same size, done
[15:33:06] <mhaberler> I played around with homebrew encoders for too long - mine turned out to be too inexact, phase noise, not exactly centered = useless
[15:33:27] <Loetmichel> and geth some play in the belt: drill bit gone.
[15:33:43] <mhaberler> drive belt == zahnriemen
[15:33:44] <Loetmichel> you can talk down everyting
[15:33:49] <Loetmichel> i know
[15:33:56] <Loetmichel> can have play, too
[15:34:18] <mhaberler> no, it's fine - I'm not religious about it - I just reported my experience
[15:34:28] <Loetmichel> as i have done ;-)
[15:34:55] <Loetmichel> but you are right: i would have suggested a a/b encoder to syl also
[15:35:32] <Loetmichel> but if i have read everything riht emc doesent support it on the spindle anyways?
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[15:35:59] <mhaberler> works fine - you need to wire up with hal
[15:36:56] <mhaberler> it needs to support it for tapping on a lathe, and rigid tapping, possibly other spindle-synced moves
[15:37:34] <mhaberler> motion.spindle-revs IN float
[15:37:35] <mhaberler> For correct operation of spindle synchronized moves, this signal must be hooked to the position pin of the spindle encoder.
[15:37:59] <pcw_home> If 4 counts/rev is good enough you can get A/B/I with 2 sensors :-)
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[15:44:38] <elmo40> Loetmichel: what is it you are looking for, super high RPM? how much power can that tiny motor give you.
[15:47:49] <elmo40> I like this pendent design : http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=stoB_AzI5g0 nice LCD display.
[15:48:42] <syyl_> yeah
[15:48:52] <syyl_> but i dont understand how somebody wants a display on his handwheel
[15:50:13] <elmo40> when I was making aerospace parts my machine was 240" long, trying to read the fixed display was painful, all I wanted was the readout on the pendent so I knew where the spindle was. would have saved me from walking back and forth so often.
[15:50:33] <syyl_> ok, thats a point
[15:50:39] <syyl_> *takes out his calculator*
[15:50:53] <syyl_> ah, 6m
[15:51:36] <syyl_> maybe binoculars would have been an option ;)
[15:51:51] <elmo40> it was for making wing spars and fuselage supports.
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[15:53:44] <syyl_> hmm
[15:53:55] <syyl_> when using hostmod2 and a mesa card
[15:54:10] <syyl_> the pins to be used for the encoders are fixed?
[15:54:44] <elmo40> we used to stick out pieces that were 42' :-P machine it in steps. Blending was tricky because the part would bow differently at every length, especially after it was cut.
[15:55:57] <syyl_> and they are just called by .encoder.xx, not by a pin-number?
[15:56:24] <syyl_> part double the size of the machine? i know that in a bit smaller scale ;)
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[15:58:15] <Loetmichel> elmo40: about what you are talking?
[15:58:40] <Loetmichel> the spindle i have bought or syyl_s encoder project?
[15:59:06] <elmo40> you posted a pic of a small motor, you will use that for powering the ER11 spindle?
[15:59:15] <elmo40> will this be an engraver?
[15:59:34] <Loetmichel> no, i have build that for the "cheese router" of a friend
[15:59:57] <Loetmichel> 30kRPM with little (2mm max ) router bits
[16:00:23] <Loetmichel> to replace a dremal
[16:00:25] <Loetmichel> dremel
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[16:00:43] <Loetmichel> and that "little" motor has about 1000Watts!
[16:01:10] <Loetmichel> and a tremendous amount of torque for being a outrunner ;-)
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[16:01:39] <pcw_home> Yes in hostmot2 encoders have fixed pinouts decided at firmware creation time and are numbered 0..N-1 for N encoders
[16:01:41] <pcw_home> This is so for example a standard 3 axis config always uses encoders 0,1,2
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[16:01:45] <Loetmichel> correction: the outrunner has only about 300W
[16:02:11] <syyl_> and that encoders are the hardware encoders of the mesa card?
[16:02:18] <Loetmichel> the inrunner on my other brushless spindle has about 1000 watts and a max RPM of 50k
[16:02:22] <syyl_> i think i start to understand it ;)
[16:02:30] <Loetmichel> this one: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=436
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[16:03:29] <Loetmichel> there are ceramic ball bearings in it
[16:03:32] <pcw_home> Yes hardware encoders (you can of course use GPIO for low speed encoders)
[16:03:40] <syyl_> ok fine, thank you :)
[16:03:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10468
[16:08:45] <elmo40> Loetmichel: interesting. What is a 'cheese router' ?
[16:09:06] <Spida> http://kaesefraese.com
[16:09:18] <Loetmichel> a router/mill which can only mill parmesan or softer materials ;-)
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[16:09:45] <elmo40> lol
[16:09:55] <elmo40> circuit boards?
[16:10:11] <Spida> elmo40: like http://kaesefraese.com/images/fraese3/kpl.jpg or http://buildyourcnc.com/images/david1.JPG or http://www.instructables.com/image/F0FQHG3F54HJ7SB/Easy-to-Build-Desk-Top-3-Axis-CNC-Milling-Machine.jpg
[16:10:31] <elmo40> I understand
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[16:10:45] <Loetmichel> its a (bad) nicname for all those construtions with too small linear rails or even desk drawer rails and so on
[16:11:30] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: I also have a brushless 'Somewhat-1350' (the one with wire brush on it): http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4714/137304751.1/0_737dc_47cf8d12_XL.jpg
[16:12:14] <Loetmichel> IG-garage: that is a ac asychronous motor
[16:12:14] <IG-garage> This manual brush at the left is also brushless, though human-powered :)
[16:12:30] <IG-garage> could be, could be... who knows...
[16:12:31] <Loetmichel> i was talking about the little model motors for planes
[16:12:56] <Loetmichel> about the size of an egg, but power like a big one...
[16:13:06] <Loetmichel> (some heat issues , though)
[16:13:07] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[16:13:11] <IG-garage> uh...
[16:14:13] <Loetmichel> look over here: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__5139__Turnigy_80_100_A_180Kv_Brushless_Outrunner_eq_70_55_.html
[16:14:20] <Loetmichel> to bring it to the extreme
[16:15:15] <Loetmichel> about one and a half fist full of motor, nearly ten horsepowers ;-)
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[16:15:43] <IG-garage> it probably uses those super-magnets if it's so high in power
[16:15:50] <Spida> I am not sure I'd want to put that amount of energy into anything labled turnigy or towerpro.
[16:16:15] <Loetmichel> Spida: coward ;-)
[16:16:41] <Spida> IG-garage: those no so super-magnets used in some of the turnigy motors tend to lose magentization pretty quick.
[16:16:59] <Loetmichel> Spida: if overheated, right
[16:17:23] <IG-garage> yhey must be water-cooled?
[16:19:12] <Loetmichel> no, they are air-cooled
[16:19:56] <Loetmichel> they tend to overheat if not mounted with a oversized fan, though
[16:20:26] <Spida> I have oversized fans on them - like 12"
[16:20:34] <Spida> didn't help
[16:20:51] <psha> anyone tried kvm/qemu virtual parallel port?
[16:21:22] <Loetmichel> Spida: and if you are not confident in Towerpro: maybe a HXT fits your needs? -> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__5140__HXT_80_85_A_250Kv_Brushless_Outrunner_eq_70_40_.html
[16:21:24] <Loetmichel> ;-))))
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[16:22:06] <IG-garage> 'oversized fan'? Onto what does it blows? If the motor lacks such thingies made of sheet metal along it, fan will not cool it down
[16:22:37] <Loetmichel> IG-garage: these motors are constructed for model planes: 5 minutes of max power, than cool down
[16:23:15] <IG-garage> and how can they be cooled down with a fan?
[16:23:16] <Loetmichel> the motors are open, so one can press enough air throgh it to cool the windings directly, but that is no easy task.
[16:23:22] <IG-garage> oh
[16:23:28] <IG-garage> right then.
[16:24:15] <Loetmichel> and the bell of the motors rotate, so no chance for passive heatsinks, either ;-)
[16:24:32] <Spida> I have made a nive invention: use a second battery to prolong flight-time. just land, change battery, fly again. should get it patent for it seems it still doesn't seem to be known widely...
[16:24:44] <Loetmichel> ... let me look... somwhere....
[16:25:56] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/turborix_umgewickelt.avi <- there is a little one of this contruction. only about 150W maximum ;-)
[16:26:08] <Loetmichel> there you can see how they are buildt
[16:26:23] <IG-garage> cool it down in gasoline as fuel pump is being submerged in fuel and works. This way, your airplanes may crash down from the sky with a fire! :)
[16:26:24] <psha> cncbasher_: around? sorry for not replying on forum...
[16:26:40] <psha> cncbasher_: i think there is no examples for gladevcp except some tried by devs
[16:26:58] <psha> cncbasher_: so best way is to try with help of somebody to create your own
[16:27:02] <psha> cncbasher_: and that's would be example :]
[16:27:36] <Loetmichel> ... chinese motors... ball bearings sound like dead... new ones ;-)
[16:27:55] <Spida> yes
[16:28:47] <Loetmichel> i've rewound that one 'cause i ripped out the wires in a chrash
[16:28:58] <Loetmichel> ... twice... :-(
[16:29:38] <Loetmichel> but for about 10 to 20 $ one cant complain about quality ;-)
[16:30:51] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/turningy_c2409.avi <- even smaller one (100W) even cheaper (7.95$)
[16:31:10] <Loetmichel> that set was about 150 $ for 9 motors and 9 ESCs ;-)
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[16:43:17] <A2Sheds> is there an easy way to get EMC to generate a one shot pulse with a controllable width?
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[16:44:13] <A2Sheds> using say the GPIO's on a 7i37?
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[16:54:53] <pcw_home> Theres a one shot component
[16:55:52] <pcw_home> (servo thread timing resolution)
[16:55:55] <A2Sheds> loadrt oneshot [count=N|names=name1[,name2...]]
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[16:58:49] <A2Sheds> pcw_home: does that mean the pulse width can only be multiples of the servo thread interval?
[17:00:57] <A2Sheds> oneshot.N.width float in (default: 0) Pulse width in seconds ... or is it in full seconds? or can it be say .02?
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[17:05:45] <cradek> A2Sheds: considering it's a float, .02 should be a perfectly fine width
[17:06:27] <cradek> yeah
[17:06:28] <cradek> data.timer -= period * 0.000000001;
[17:06:28] <cradek> if ( data.timer < 0.0 ) data.timer = 0.0;
[17:26:07] <A2Sheds> cradek: thanks
[17:29:10] <A2Sheds> now if this servo would only behave
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[17:35:48] <alex4nder> hey
[17:50:36] <skunkworks> who?
[17:50:50] <syyl_> ho!
[17:51:35] -!- Connor has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[17:53:11] <ssi> huh?
[17:53:13] <alex4nder> right.
[17:53:44] <ssi> someone come over and motivate me to finish my mill build
[17:53:48] <ssi> or hell, my mini mill build
[17:53:50] <ssi> or both... :(
[17:54:23] -!- capricorn_one [capricorn_one!~raffi@zima.linwin.com] has joined #emc
[17:54:31] <alex4nder> ssi: finish it
[17:54:35] <alex4nder> mortal kombat
[17:54:35] <alex4nder> etc.
[17:55:01] <ssi> need to figure out where to start (again)
[17:55:19] <alex4nder> I installed my first stepper last night, and tested things out with EMC.
[17:55:22] <ssi> I have ballscrews cut and threaded
[17:55:43] <ssi> and I got a tube of good kluber grease... need to clean out all my AC bearings and get them packed with the new grease
[17:55:46] <alex4nder> and I think I killed my bearings.
[17:55:47] <ssi> and make stepper mounts
[17:55:53] <alex4nder> ah
[17:56:15] <alex4nder> what mill are you converting?
[17:56:18] <ssi> g0704
[17:57:01] <alex4nder> cool
[17:57:38] <ssi> I also need to add encoders to my lathe steppers
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[17:58:53] <alex4nder> yah, that's a bunch of stuff to do
[18:00:57] <alex4nder> I'm waiting for the skate shop to open, so I can go buy some new bearings.
[18:01:40] <ssi> hahah
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[18:11:01] <danimal_laptop> hi
[18:11:29] <IchGucksLive> B)
[18:13:10] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/doppelencoder_4.jpg
[18:13:17] <syyl_> now i got a/b signal and index :D
[18:15:21] <IchGucksLive> this is finished work for 15USD at 600p/U
[18:15:34] <IchGucksLive> there are somany on ebay
[18:16:03] <syyl_> but none with 40mm bore for a reasonable price
[18:16:12] <pcw_home> I think this is a lathe spindle so not so easy to connect
[18:16:28] <syyl_> milling machine :)
[18:16:47] <IchGucksLive> syyl_: direct connect ?
[18:16:53] <syyl_> jep
[18:17:00] <IchGucksLive> why
[18:17:07] <IchGucksLive> adaptiv to 10mm
[18:18:19] <syyl_> first version was that
[18:18:20] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-11-23_20-58-01_38.jpg
[18:18:34] <syyl_> but
[18:18:48] <syyl_> due to the gearing i got more than one index pulses per revolution..
[18:18:56] <syyl_> never tought of that
[18:19:33] <mikegg> does anyone have a schematic of what it should look like driving a gecko drive with a 5i20 ?
[18:20:03] <syyl_> but, a friend suggested to build my own encoder...
[18:20:11] <syyl_> and thats what i am going for :D
[18:21:14] <pcw_home> mikegg directly or via some daughtercard?
[18:21:51] <mikegg> through a opto-22 rack, but jumpering out the opto module
[18:22:04] <mikegg> the gecko has opto isolation, so it's redundant
[18:22:13] <IchGucksLive> syyl_: search for dynapar
[18:22:19] <mikegg> it sorta works, but missing steps
[18:22:53] <mikegg> slowing it down doesn't help, so I'm thinking i've done something wrong with the logic...
[18:22:54] <syyl_> and you pay me one? :P
[18:23:32] <IchGucksLive> 35USD for a E2204 is not pricy
[18:23:49] <IchGucksLive> or do you need a 5000p/rev
[18:24:11] <syyl_> no
[18:24:20] <syyl_> but lets see if i can do it by myself
[18:24:26] <syyl_> i can still buy one..
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[18:25:06] <pcw_home> mikegg Could be step polarity or OPTO drive.
[18:25:08] <pcw_home> Does the Gecko have common anode or common cathode OPTOs?
[18:25:23] <IchGucksLive> syyl_: good
[18:25:34] <syyl_> and that way
[18:25:38] <IchGucksLive> you need good fast cny
[18:25:47] <syyl_> i get a encoder that fits exactly my machine
[18:27:22] <mikegg> pcw_home: one sec...
[18:28:10] <IchGucksLive> syyl_: lm 358 is perfect i use thia also for the little selfrunning linefollowers
[18:28:43] <IchGucksLive> syyl_: what controlerr are you ising 7ixx
[18:28:56] <syyl_> i planed to use 5i20
[18:28:58] <syyl_> eh
[18:29:03] <syyl_> i use 5i20 right now :D
[18:29:21] <IchGucksLive> that fits your need
[18:29:28] <syyl_> the photodiode i want to use is a sfh229
[18:29:33] <syyl_> http://www.kosmodrom.com.ua/pdf/SFH229.pdf
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[18:30:14] <IchGucksLive> why not a standard one if lower then 1000/p/rev
[18:30:54] <IchGucksLive> if you go beond 1.2mm you will run in trouble with the inductiuon
[18:30:56] <mikeggg> pcw_home: I think this answers your question..? http://imgur.com/krdIR
[18:32:09] <danimal_laptop> im having trouble creating an xorg.conf file for some reason
[18:32:15] <pcw_home> mikeggg OK so where is common connected?
[18:33:20] <mikegg> I think I tried it both ways, been working on this off and on..
[18:34:30] <mikegg> is one way or the other preferable ?
[18:35:06] <pcw_home> OK really only one way makes sense for common anode --> COMMON to +5V from PC and the GPIO bits used for STEP/DIR set to open drain mode
[18:36:16] <pcw_home> other option requires 3.3V and I doint think Gecko drives really work at 3.3V
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[18:37:02] <mikegg> the manual says that it will, but with the 4.7k in the opto rack and the voltage drop in the line I think it's too low...
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[18:37:48] <mikegg> lemme try that and see where it goes...
[18:37:48] <pcw_home> My experience is that Gecko is no go at 3.3V
[18:38:02] <mikegg> (the 5v option that is..)
[18:38:28] <pcw_home> 4.7 pullup ill not make less than 3.3V (only more)
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[18:46:26] <mikegg> I think I made my jumpers wrong..
[18:47:19] <mikeggg> http://www.opto22.com/documents/0245_G4_Dig_24_Ch_data_sheet.pdf
[18:47:46] <mikeggg> on page 3, the +5 for common to the gecko, should come from pin 3 I think
[18:49:28] <mikeggg> which is supplied from an external power source
[18:58:43] <pcw_home> Funny dont they have the option of powering the 5V from pin 49
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[19:01:31] <mikeggg> hmm, dunno lemme try
[19:02:35] <mikeggg> the LED on the rack isn't as bright, but yeah it's still lit
[19:05:36] <pcw_home> Well if its dimmer that means there's probably to much 5V draw from something there so maybe it needs external power connected (best from PC)
[19:05:38] <pcw_home> (a 5V measurement will tell you)
[19:07:07] <mikeggg> oh yeah, now I remember. I'm using several input modules to read limit switches. I think I was pushing the current limit of the 5i20
[19:07:16] <mikeggg> or something
[19:09:02] <mikeggg> so if I'm using an external power supply, should I clip pin 49? or pull the voltage select jumper from the 5i20?
[19:15:17] <danimal_laptop> im having some issues editing my xorg.conf file. i did sudo gedit etc/X11/xorg.conf but it opens a blank file and it wont save
[19:15:40] <danimal_laptop> anyone have any ideas?
[19:17:56] <Tom_itx> root/
[19:17:59] <Tom_itx> ?
[19:18:08] <cradek> missing leading /
[19:18:20] <danimal_laptop> ah
[19:18:23] <danimal_laptop> thanks!
[19:18:31] <cradek> it was nothing :-)
[19:19:22] <danimal_laptop> ha
[19:19:34] <danimal_laptop> cradek: what touch screen monitor do you use?
[19:20:21] <cradek> I have about 4 of them, all different
[19:20:58] <danimal_laptop> do you have an ELO?
[19:21:00] <pcw_home> If you have anon-ancient 5I20 there should be a PTC per connector (1.3A) so that should be plenty for a I/O module rack
[19:21:30] <danimal_laptop> the touch screen works, but it is mirrored and needs calibration
[19:21:34] <cradek> yes I think the one in the mill is elo
[19:21:52] <cradek> yep that's the way it goes with those
[19:22:07] <danimal_laptop> i got the instructions to fix it online
[19:22:12] <cradek> is it lcd usb?
[19:22:15] <danimal_laptop> yes
[19:22:40] <danimal_laptop> i entered the script in terminal that fixes it, but i have to do that on every reboot
[19:23:03] <danimal_laptop> someone suggested i put the script into the xorg.conf file, does that make sense?
[19:23:26] <cradek> what is "the script"
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[19:25:08] <danimal_laptop> cradek: http://pastebin.com/zLF4uWgh
[19:25:27] <cradek> no, that makes no sense in xorg.conf
[19:25:42] <danimal_laptop> ah
[19:26:16] <danimal_laptop> any suggestions?
[19:29:10] <cradek> ummm
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[19:32:00] <cradek> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-hardware-18/save-xinput-set-int-prop-properties-to-xorg-conf-or-elsewhere-727110/
[19:33:02] <cradek> I have droppings here that say I'm using the evtouch driver, and also that I had to hack and recompile it. I think that may have been for hardy, though.
[19:34:08] <danimal_laptop> ah
[19:34:20] <cradek> in other news, we're eventually doomed to have everything rewritten in xml "to make it all easy"
[19:34:22] <danimal_laptop> thanks, i didn't see that page in my searches
[19:34:28] <cradek> so good luck :-/
[19:34:46] <danimal_laptop> lol thanks...
[19:34:49] <psha> danimal_laptop: if you need to run something at the beginning of the X session you may use .xinitrc/.xsession or Xsession.d
[19:35:07] <cradek> touch screens are among the worst-supported hardware
[19:35:16] <cradek> unfortunately it sometimes takes much patience
[19:35:26] <danimal_laptop> thanks psha, someone else mentioned that as well
[19:35:48] <cradek> psha: that's post-login, though. not ideal for a touchscreen.
[19:35:49] <danimal_laptop> cradek: yea, i've been messing with it for about a day
[19:36:42] <danimal_laptop> cradek: what's the difference between touchy and just making pyvcp buttons?
[19:37:12] <danimal_laptop> i couldnt find much on touchy other than this: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui_touchy.html#r1_2
[19:37:17] <cradek> touchy is a full user interface that works
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[19:38:28] <cradek> it does a lot of things you can't do with pyvcp buttons no matter how hard you try: imagine making a system to enter mdi commands.
[19:39:21] <psha> cradek: ah, sorry
[19:39:27] <psha> have not read script :]
[19:40:06] <cradek> if using auto-login, it might approximately work though
[19:41:15] <danimal_laptop> cradek: don't you lose the axis screen with touchy? i kinda like the preview of the parts im making
[19:41:39] <cradek> yes, touchy has no preview by default, but in later versions you can add one using gremlin
[19:42:21] <cradek> I like to code/test run/preview using AXIS on my desk, and then go to the machine which uses touchy to run it
[19:43:50] <danimal_laptop> since i only do production work on my machine and hardly ever use mdi (only for tool changes occasionally), would it make more sense to just use a few pyvcp buttons for the spindle, coolant, cycle start, etc?\
[19:45:01] <danimal_laptop> i know those buttons are in axis already, but i'd probably put in a bigger button so it's easier to hit
[19:50:44] <cradek> that way lies madness
[19:51:21] <ssi> anyone have any thoughts on the best way to grease AC bearings?
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[20:05:36] <mikeggg> what are AC bearings?
[20:06:05] <andypugh> Angular COntact
[20:07:48] -!- GoSebGo [GoSebGo!~Seb@184-229-80-232.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #emc
[20:08:55] <mikeggg> I packed some grease in a syringe when I did the spindle on my 622
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[20:44:16] <mikeggg> pcw_home: thanks for your help - I think i've got it all hooked up right now. but it's still missing steps and stalling randomly so there must be something else going on..
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[20:46:01] <mikeggg> the only other thing that I changed since I last had it working well was the DC power supply to the gecko. I came down a bit to 85 VDC, but I can't imagine that's the problem
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[20:48:40] <pcw_home> isn't 85V too high for Gecko?
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[20:50:32] <mikeggg> well, yeah. their tech support said it's under rated - should be fine
[20:50:40] <mikeggg> I've got a big heat sink and a fan on it
[20:52:05] <pcw_home> fan wont help overvoltage...
[20:53:33] <pcw_home> And you set step/dir outputs to open drain mode?
[20:53:41] <mikeggg> yeah, I should know better by now...
[20:53:58] <mikeggg> hm2_5i20...is_opendrain TRUE
[20:53:59] <mikeggg> yeah
[20:54:26] <alex4nder> sick
[20:54:32] <alex4nder> skateboard abec 7 bearings did the trick
[20:55:05] <pcw_home> You shoud be able to check at least the dir pins with a voltmeter to see if you are getting ~0 to ~5V swing
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[20:57:56] <mikeggg> yeah, it swings 4.96 to 0.137
[20:58:31] <mrsun> hihi now the table is straight down to 0.005 .. cant measure any lower as it jumps all over the place :P
[20:58:48] <mrsun> shouldnt that be good enough for a micromill ? :)
[20:58:51] <mrsun> 0.005mm that is
[20:59:22] <mrsun> 0.0002 inches :P
[20:59:53] <andypugh> Good enough for me, but I am not fussy.
[21:03:19] <alex4nder> mrsun: this is a taig micromill?
[21:03:24] <mrsun> seig X1
[21:03:38] <alex4nder> ah
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[21:08:25] <danimal_laptop> yay i fixed the touchscreen
[21:08:44] <danimal_laptop> i just put the script into startup applications
[21:08:51] <danimal_laptop> worked like a charm
[21:10:14] -!- tom3p [tom3p!~tomp@74-93-88-241-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #emc
[21:10:46] <Tom_itx> woot!
[21:11:45] <tom3p> how to get to forums? i just got blocked, the site is marked as a phishing site http://phish.opendns.com/main?url=www.linuxcnc.org%2Fcomponent%2Foption%2Ccom_kunena&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.linuxcnc.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Femcinfo.pl%3FEmcKnowledgeBase&w=1280&h=571
[21:15:27] <tom3p> what i wanted to post http://imagebin.org/185967 http://imagebin.org/185968
[21:16:03] <tom3p> its hal diagrams rendered by dotty and edited by lefty ( lefty & dotty are part of the visgraph suite/deb )
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[21:18:30] <alex4nder> tom3p: yah, what's the deal with that.. if you search for linuxcnc.org, the summary is for discount Adobe Acrobat.
[21:18:42] <alex4nder> did the server get hacked at some point?
[21:19:03] <tom3p> yes, but this is new, this is worse, its blocked
[21:19:11] <alex4nder> huh
[21:19:17] -!- isssy has quit [Quit: Visitor from www.linuxcnc.org]
[21:20:05] -!- isssy [isssy!~isssy@78-83-51-185.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #emc
[21:20:30] <tom3p> could someone goto http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl and click on the emc forum link ? communications| forums | emc forum-trial on linucnc.org
[21:20:34] <tom3p> please
[21:20:42] <ve7it> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/lang,english/ works for me
[21:21:14] <tom3p> Phishing Site Blocked for me. just clicked on yout link, so its blocked here
[21:22:21] <ve7it> I also clicked the link from irc window I posted and it works OK.... some feature of your ISP?
[21:22:23] <tom3p> my cnxn goes thru http://opendns.com and its earmarked as phishing by http://phish.opendns.com
[21:22:40] <andypugh> That keeps happening to me from work. The site has been hacked.
[21:22:51] <tom3p> thx, well posting the info to imagebin is all i can do then
[21:23:18] <danimal_laptop> who is lame enough to hack the emc site?
[21:23:23] <tom3p> if anyone was interested in the recent tool chain for diagramming hal, see above ^^^
[21:24:00] <tom3p> danimal_laptop, i suppose whos interested in emc is valuable info, or .,.. there are just mean people too
[21:24:42] <danimal_laptop> is it the mach3 folk?
[21:24:59] <andypugh> It's quite clever, if you browse the site as the googlebot user-agent, you got totally different content to if you browse it with a normal browser user-agent
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[21:31:48] <cradek> I cleaned it up manually again - the best I can do. the permanent fix is a joomla security update, which requires SWPadnos and alex_joni to work together, and they can't seem to schedule it, being on opposite sides of the world and both busy.
[21:40:14] <tom3p> thx for the effort, i remember i could access it from the hotel during the week, but not here
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[21:41:48] <tom3p> i spose its not new, not worse, this opendns just noticed it had a weird connection and said beware of dragons
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[21:43:32] <andypugh> cradek I think JT is working in creating a joomla 1.7 version of the whole site. I can imagineit being a big job though.
[21:44:28] <cradek> I think keeping the existing data is what makes it hard
[21:44:41] <A2Sheds> I knew they guy that asked wikipedia to drop EMC since it was a "dead project"
[21:46:00] <andypugh> What did he base that on?
[21:46:17] <andypugh> Anyway, the Cistine chapel is a dead project, and that is on there.
[21:46:31] <A2Sheds> he didn't like EMC so he notified wikipedia and they flagged it for deletion a couple of years ago
[21:46:31] <cradek> andypugh: his own agenda, I assume
[21:47:09] <A2Sheds> I was going to replace his mach 3 system with EMC
[21:47:46] <andypugh> Ah, so malicious rather than ill-informed?
[21:47:48] <A2Sheds> he's a consultant that was behind on a simple project, IIRC a winder
[21:48:03] <A2Sheds> yeah, just a douche
[21:48:29] <alex4nder> laf.
[21:49:08] <A2Sheds> he edits lots of wikipedia articles on machining
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[21:51:54] <alex4nder> A2Sheds: you should make a wikipedia article about him.
[21:51:58] <alex4nder> detailing his exploits.
[21:52:02] <A2Sheds> hehe
[21:52:36] <cradek> yeah, then it can be deleted for not being "notable" or whatever the requirement is for living people
[21:52:41] <alex4nder> haha
[21:52:42] <A2Sheds> his name might still be in the wikipedia edit log
[21:53:16] <A2Sheds> he consulted for ITW of all places
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[21:55:15] <andypugh> The thing about being a consultant is that you have to always believe that you are right and everyone else is wrong. I ought to become one, really.
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[21:58:34] <tom3p> the 'processing' language, i thought it was for arduino ( it is ) but it was designed for data visualization ( graphing )
[21:58:36] <A2Sheds> why does Parker require HALL states for their servo amps (Gemini) to operate?
[21:58:53] <alex4nder> andypugh: that's not true.
[21:59:04] <alex4nder> <- consultant
[22:00:02] <A2Sheds> 20K count post quad encoder and it wants a HALL state , you whisper next to the drive and the encoder changes state
[22:00:45] <andypugh> A2Sheds Ah, but is it an absolute encoder?
[22:00:56] <A2Sheds> nope, quadrature
[22:01:02] -!- mschuhmacher has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[22:01:09] <andypugh> The drive needs to know the rotor position before it can commutate.
[22:01:10] <A2Sheds> with index
[22:01:38] <andypugh> It can't start the motor moving until it know where it is.
[22:02:06] <A2Sheds> how does the 8i20 handle it?
[22:02:11] <andypugh> There are ways round it, but Hall sensors are by far the most acceptable.
[22:02:38] <andypugh> The 8i20 doesn't handle it at all, it is all done inside EMC2
[22:03:23] <A2Sheds> that is my point, the Parker amp wants to know, no matter what EMC is telling it +-10V
[22:04:08] <A2Sheds> I'm never using these as amplifiers again
[22:04:36] <andypugh> The bldc component offers a number of ways to do it, but Hall sensors will tend to work the best. The alternatives are to apply a known field coil current and see where the motor points (assuming it is under zero load), or to rotate the motor as a stepper until it sees index. Both involve moving the motor, neither work properly under load.
[22:05:20] <A2Sheds> if the motor and controls are in a unknown state
[22:05:28] <andypugh> Do your motors not have hall sensors?
[22:05:59] <A2Sheds> they do, but it looks like one motor has a flaky one
[22:06:09] <andypugh> Once the motor has tunred a fraction of a turn then I would assume that the Parker drives will use the encoder, just like EMC2 does.
[22:06:33] <A2Sheds> with 20k count encoders it doesn't take much of a turn
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[22:07:08] <A2Sheds> I wanted to use an different encoder and discovered that it needs the HALL
[22:07:25] <A2Sheds> wasted day
[22:07:31] <andypugh> There are encoders that output Hall too.
[22:08:28] <andypugh> If you want to experiment, the bldc component can also output Hall signals, though I have no idea if that would be useful in your case.
[22:08:34] <A2Sheds> http://imagebin.org/185636
[22:08:57] <A2Sheds> oh yeah, that would help!
[22:09:11] <andypugh> Search for "commutation encoder"
[22:09:39] <A2Sheds> these have both internal HAL and quad encoder
[22:10:06] <A2Sheds> the thing is that the HALL sensors are actually optical
[22:11:16] <A2Sheds> need it working by tomorrow, can't get a replacement for a week or two
[22:12:01] <A2Sheds> it's behaving well enough at low speeds for the time being
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[22:12:24] <andypugh> Makes sense. Don't think of them as Hall sensors, so much as a low-resolution absolute encoder piggybacked on the high resolution incremental one.
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[22:12:36] <A2Sheds> yeah
[22:12:55] <A2Sheds> too bad their docs don't explain it that way
[22:13:47] <andypugh> I need some custom encoder discs. And Hall sensors, for my home-made motor. I think it will have to be DIY all the way though.
[22:14:45] <A2Sheds> buried in some troubleshooting tips they mention that the HALL sensor LED is shared bu the encoder even though they have two separate 5V supplies
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[22:15:31] <A2Sheds> i think they really don't want to support motors other than parker
[22:17:34] <danimal_laptop> andypugh: is that what you were making with the electrical steel? a motor?
[22:17:39] <A2Sheds> I'm not sure of the optos on this but they just have two lm339 opamps and some Schmitt trigger
[22:18:50] <andypugh> Danimal_garage Yes
[22:19:43] <andypugh> I am thinking that in the commercial world, the motor design probably isn't based around how many laminations get made before the last milling cutter snaps. (The answer is 56 laminations, for a 27mm motor)
[22:19:47] <danimal_laptop> thats cool, what for? shits and giggles, or is it for a special purpose
[22:20:09] <danimal_laptop> ha
[22:20:27] <andypugh> A special purpose.
[22:20:49] <Loetmichel> andypugh: in commercial the laminations get lasered or punched
[22:20:55] <A2Sheds> iron core motor?
[22:20:58] <andypugh> I needed a motor with a 65mm OD and a 40mm through-hole.
[22:21:03] <Loetmichel> ... more punched after the prototype i think
[22:21:22] <Loetmichel> andypugh: outrunner or inrunner?
[22:21:25] <danimal_laptop> andypugh: what for, or is it a secret?
[22:21:27] <andypugh> Loetmichel Indeed, and that would have cost me $400 and a 3-week wait.
[22:21:53] * Loetmichel has milled some lminations for outrunners also
[22:22:04] <andypugh> Danimal_garage Secret, I want to sell the idea if it works.
[22:22:12] <danimal_laptop> thats what i figured
[22:22:21] <danimal_laptop> hope it works for ya
[22:22:34] <Loetmichel> but i have used the despooled core of a thick toroid transformer as stock material ;.)
[22:23:09] <andypugh> Loetmichel: I scrounged the material from a local transformer manufacturer
[22:23:28] <A2Sheds> low budget innovation
[22:23:33] <archivist> luck you still have a local tx maker
[22:23:45] <andypugh> Yeah, I was surprised.
[22:23:54] <archivist> most have shut
[22:24:11] <archivist> I have a winding machine from one
[22:25:08] <andypugh> http://www.teccoltd.com/products1.html
[22:25:42] <andypugh> I was wondering about winding my motor using an A axis with a spool feeding through the spindle.
[22:26:05] <A2Sheds> andypugh: how much torque are you shooting for?
[22:26:45] <andypugh> I actually have no idea. There is a fair chance that I will end up rewinding several times for steadily bigger voltages
[22:27:12] <andypugh> But if I can get 1Nm, that should be plenty.
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[22:27:42] <andypugh> I am worried that the design doesn't have much space for the windings.
[22:28:31] <archivist> there are basic iron to copper ratios iirc
[22:29:42] <andypugh> Yes, so I understand. That's just some of the research I have failed to do :-)
[22:30:32] <archivist> ah well...ampere turns...turn the wick up on the supply
[22:33:11] * Jymmm straps on the seatbelt.... it's gonna be a bumpy ride....
[22:35:51] <Jymmm> Please place your irc clients in their fully upright and locked position...
[22:38:28] <skunkworks> heh - funny for a sunday
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[22:41:13] <andypugh> archivist That's my thinking. Initially I will wind to suit the 7i39 and see how that goes.
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[22:44:02] * JT-Shop is a tired puppy after herding 6 laughing adults acting like kids all weekend :)
[22:44:11] <Jymmm> skunkworks: told ya =)
[22:44:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: not enough or too much boose?
[22:44:41] <archivist> JT-Shop, you let them too close to the beer
[22:44:51] <danimal_laptop> hmm sudo apt-get install emc2 is not doing anything
[22:45:57] <danimal_laptop> i did everything is said here: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
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[22:46:37] <andypugh> danimal_laptop with the space?
[22:46:53] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: both at times LOL
[22:47:04] <danimal_laptop> what space?
[22:47:05] <Jymmm> heh
[22:47:09] <JT-Shop> they had a cooler right in the middle of them'
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[22:47:43] <JT-Shop> danimal_laptop: what are you trying to do?
[22:47:44] <andypugh> the spaces after deb and deb-src and between / and lucid and v2.5
[22:48:35] <A2Sheds> when using "X test axis" in pncconf, setting the Dac Offset doesn't seem to effect Dac Output Offset
[22:48:46] <danimal_laptop> JT-Shop: trying to install 2.6
[22:48:56] <danimal_laptop> andypugh: i just copy and pasted
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[22:50:08] <andypugh> Odd. It worked for me.
[22:50:32] <andypugh> You did the apt-get update
[22:50:37] <JT-Shop> danimal_laptop: why master and not 2.5?
[22:50:47] <danimal_laptop> yea, did nothing
[22:51:11] <andypugh> I wonder if you need a "starter" installation?
[22:51:12] <danimal_laptop> JT-Shop: i dunno, i run master on my other mill so i figured i'd just use that
[22:51:30] <danimal_laptop> andypugh: what do you mean?
[22:51:35] <andypugh> Is there an emc2 version on the machine allready?
[22:51:51] <danimal_laptop> it's a fresh install from the live cd
[22:51:59] <andypugh> Wierd.
[22:52:00] <danimal_laptop> with updates
[22:52:09] <JT-Shop> I use 2.5 so it is a bit more stable
[22:52:19] <andypugh> Have you sacrificed a chicken?
[22:52:46] <danimal_laptop> maybe i edited the emc2-buildbot.list incorrectly
[22:52:52] <JT-Shop> danimal_laptop: on my 525 I just built a deb but you can git one here http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/dists/lucid/v2.5_branch-rt/binary-i386/
[22:53:23] <danimal_laptop> i did sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list.d/emc2-buildbot.list
[22:53:53] <danimal_laptop> and pasted the info there
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[22:54:43] <danimal_laptop> JT-Shop: i dont know how to do it that way
[22:55:06] <danimal_laptop> im just wondering why doing it this way wont work
[22:55:12] <danimal_laptop> i did it on my other machine
[22:55:38] <JT-Shop> I uninstalled 2.4 with the synaptic package manager then clicked on the deb and it prompted me to install it
[22:55:51] <JT-Shop> typo maybe?
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[22:56:12] <danimal_laptop> i copied and pasted
[22:59:08] <JT-Shop> how many spaces after deb?
[22:59:21] <JT-Shop> should only be one
[22:59:33] <danimal_laptop> 5
[22:59:35] <danimal_laptop> ah
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[23:00:12] <danimal_laptop> still no workie
[23:03:32] <JT-Shop> and you added the repository to the synaptic package manager?
[23:03:56] <danimal_laptop> not that i know of
[23:04:11] <danimal_laptop> i dont think i did that on the other machine
[23:05:33] <JT-Shop> I see it on my machine
[23:08:12] <danimal_laptop> i see it too
[23:11:50] <danimal_laptop> maybe apt-get isnt working?
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[23:14:25] <JT-Shop> dunno, I have success with just downloading or making the deb and clicking on it after uninstalling 2.4
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[23:20:20] <danimal_laptop> i dont exactly know how to do that
[23:21:12] <danimal_laptop> do i download everything in that link you sent me?
[23:21:24] <JT-Shop> download the deb, uninstall 2.4 in the synaptic package manager, then click or double click on the deb and follow the bouncing ball
[23:21:32] <JT-Shop> just the latest one
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[23:22:34] <JT-Shop> this one should do http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/dists/lucid/v2.5_branch-rt/binary-i386/emc2-dev_2.5.0~pre2.224.g68fa27d_i386.deb
[23:24:02] <danimal_laptop> it's only 733k?
[23:24:59] <danimal_laptop> i was confused because some files were 8m, others were 16k
[23:25:27] <JT-Shop> the docs are 7.8m
[23:27:02] <danimal_laptop> ah
[23:33:46] <danimal_laptop> it says error: dependency is not satisfiable: emc2 (=
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[23:35:31] <danimal_laptop> hmm apt-get install emc2 is working now
[23:35:35] <danimal_laptop> weird
[23:36:23] <JT-Shop> go with the force Luke
[23:37:02] <danimal_laptop> all i did was reboot
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[23:38:51] <danimal_laptop> yay it worked
[23:39:50] <JT-Shop> unless you need a feature in master I would run 2.5 so you don't get broken as often....
[23:41:21] <danimal_laptop> i installed 2.5
[23:41:44] <danimal_laptop> but fwiw, master has been working fine on my other mill for a while
[23:42:07] <JT-Shop> oh, I thought you said 2.6...
[23:42:23] <danimal_laptop> i did at first but i changed it
[23:42:43] <JT-Shop> have you been upgrading your other mill?
[23:43:23] <danimal_laptop> no, i think i just went with 2.6 for some reason when i replaced my bad hdd
[23:43:41] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop are you using 2.6 on anything?
[23:43:47] <JT-Shop> no
[23:43:52] <danimal_laptop> right now im just setting up the computer for the new mill
[23:44:01] <Tom_itx> any idea what it fixes/changes?
[23:44:14] <JT-Shop> 2.5 on most things with one still using 2.4
[23:44:29] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: a bunch iirc
[23:44:41] <JT-Shop> more changes than fixes
[23:45:00] <Tom_itx> 2.5 isn't really released yet is it?
[23:45:02] <JT-Shop> changes=new features
[23:45:33] <danimal_laptop> i just use it for the new velocity loop pin
[23:45:39] <danimal_laptop> or whatever it is
[23:45:41] <JT-Shop> no, it is sitting in the wings ready to go on stage but a few more document issues need to be fixed I think is all it is waiting on
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