#emc | Logs for 2011-11-23

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[00:00:07] <cpresser> andypugh: your pragmatic soulution does not seem right :)
[00:00:28] <cpresser> a sphere with radius 8 has a volume of ~2100
[00:00:31] <andypugh> cpresser: It agrees with various analytical solutions.
[00:00:43] <FinboySlick> awallin: Gimme a poke if you get this.
[00:00:59] <cpresser> a cylinder r=4 h=16 has 800.. so the reult should be around 2100-800=1300
[00:01:18] <andypugh> Yes, and the answer is 1393?
[00:01:37] <cpresser> oh... damm.. look like i read the wrong number in your picture^^
[00:01:52] <PCW> Theorem of pappus and well known centroid of segment should work as well
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[00:02:22] * FinboySlick regrets not doing his math homework.
[00:02:42] <andypugh> I modified The stack-of-discs solution for the volume of the sphere.
[00:02:45] <Danimal_garage> JT-5i25: i just used a ti-85
[00:03:14] <Danimal_garage> FinboySlick: i went to a trade school for high school
[00:03:27] <Danimal_garage> no math except for shop related stuff
[00:03:28] <JT-Shop> I have some of them in boxes from some previous lifetime
[00:03:37] <FinboySlick> Danimal_garage: Heh, I actually went to a fancy MIT-ish engineering school.
[00:03:50] <Danimal_garage> nice
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[00:04:10] <FinboySlick> Didn't do very well. Teachers loved me but I lacked discipline.
[00:04:13] theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:04:22] <Danimal_garage> same here, i never did homework
[00:04:28] <Danimal_garage> still dont :)
[00:04:46] <Danimal_garage> i was born to be a shop rat
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[00:05:04] <FinboySlick> Danimal_garage: We should get andypugh to be our teacher, he'd beat some discipline into us.
[00:05:21] <Danimal_garage> na, he's a skinny european.
[00:05:26] <andypugh> I went to the 8th best university in the world for my actual degree. But is seems a long time ago now.
[00:05:43] <andypugh> I am quite a fat european, actuallt :-)
[00:05:43] <Danimal_garage> (payback for all the fat american jokes)
[00:05:45] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Hehehe, they count down to 8th?
[00:05:50] <Danimal_garage> haha
[00:06:05] <andypugh> Down to 200... http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011/subject-rankings/natural-sciences/physics
[00:06:35] <Danimal_garage> i went to the 8th best community college in our city
[00:06:35] <FinboySlick> When's awallin usually around?
[00:07:23] <andypugh> Of course, it was nearer the top when I was there :-)
[00:07:25] <JT-Shop> I quit in the 3rd grade because I was bored
[00:07:32] <Danimal_garage> lol
[00:08:07] * cpresser cant integrate in non-cartesian spaces. the sad thing is that i learned this stuff just 6-7 years ago :/
[00:08:29] <FinboySlick> I actually loved calculus.
[00:08:45] <Danimal_garage> i figured out in 3rd grade that my teacher never checked our homework and just gave me a's since i was in the gifted program so she assumed i did it.
[00:08:45] <andypugh> But, by any rational measure (who has the most machine tools) it seems that my education avails me naught in this company :-)
[00:08:56] <FinboySlick> If they had taught me that first, I'd have paid much closer attention during algebra and trig.
[00:09:00] <Danimal_garage> so i kinda stopped doing homework around 3rd grade
[00:09:43] <andypugh> And I guess none of you guys was shipped off to Paris for the day for a 3 hour meeting? So I lose there too, and need to get some sleep.
[00:10:17] <JT-Shop> got bumped to Paris once with a hotel chit and some other roughnecks... we had fun
[00:10:37] <JT-Shop> goodnight Andy
[00:11:22] * JT-Shop wanders inside to check on the MIL
[00:11:57] <FinboySlick> Nite nite Andy.
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[00:12:10] <FinboySlick> I'm not getting what I want out of that Atom 330.
[00:12:40] <jdhNC> love? affection?
[00:13:20] <FinboySlick> I can get love from an Atom? Does that mean I should take it on a date?
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[00:20:23] <FinboySlick> Oh well, back to more bios tweaking.
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[00:20:35] <JT-Shop> lol
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[00:25:44] <JT-Shop> fire pit http://imagebin.org/185222
[00:26:40] <Danimal_garage> nice!
[00:26:46] <Danimal_garage> expensive fire pit!
[00:27:34] <JT-Shop> yea it was
[00:28:01] <JT-Shop> give em what they want and charge what you want for it
[00:28:17] <danimal_laptop> rich neighbors? lol
[00:29:06] <JT-Shop> a friend of mine is a contractor and I do all his steel work
[00:29:25] <JT-Shop> one of his rich friends a lawyer I think
[00:31:30] <Danimal_garage> ah
[00:31:33] <Danimal_garage> nice
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[00:31:49] <Danimal_garage> my new chiller just got here
[00:31:58] <JT-Shop> cool, pun intended
[00:32:00] <Tom_itx> COOL!
[00:32:04] <Tom_itx> :)
[00:33:19] <Danimal_garage> ha
[00:34:18] <Tom_itx> jt's is hawt
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[00:51:34] <A2Sheds> nothing like having to tune the servo amp loop first then the emc servo loop
[00:53:33] <PCW> You can do most of it in EMC with torque mode drives (other than the drives current loop)
[00:55:04] <PCW> _but_ 1 Khz sample rate is somewhat iffy for high performance drives velocity loop
[00:56:23] <A2Sheds> yeah, I'm using torque mode first, these amp/controllers also have a positioning mode for dumb back and forth moves as well
[00:56:49] <A2Sheds> they also learn torque curves
[00:57:04] <PCW> torque curves?
[00:57:27] <A2Sheds> they will learn the proffile of the motor under load
[00:57:54] <A2Sheds> bbl
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[01:39:16] <elmo401> 120m/min??? meters per minute?
[01:39:50] <FinboySlick> It's faster than my machine ;)
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[01:41:06] <danimal_laptop> grr i dont think this chiller works
[01:41:37] <Tom_itx> uh oh
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[01:53:14] <danimal_laptop> i'm trying to figure out how fast this thing should be cooling
[01:54:03] <danimal_laptop> 5 litres, 500w of cooling capacity at 25c and 300w at 0c
[01:54:29] <danimal_laptop> cant find any calculators online, but i guess i dont know exactly what im looking for
[01:56:30] <jdhNC> wouldn't you need BTU/time or joule/time?
[01:56:58] <danimal_laptop> i dunno
[01:57:02] <danimal_laptop> im new to this
[01:57:16] <danimal_laptop> http://www.chillercity.com/OPMANUAL/RTE-110-210.pdf
[02:02:58] <jdhNC> so, 500 watts for 60 seconds would be 3000 joules?
[02:04:02] <danimal_laptop> im not sure how it works, im trying to read
[02:04:47] <danimal_laptop> i thought joules were what my dog has :)
[02:08:00] <danimal_laptop> eh i guess it is working. just slowly
[02:09:08] <Tom_itx> slower than what you had?
[02:09:20] <danimal_laptop> i dont know yet
[02:09:25] <jdhNC> 1 min @500 watts would be 30,000 joules, or 7.2 k-calories or 7.2kg of water 1 degree c
[02:11:27] <danimal_laptop> yea definitely slower than that....
[02:11:59] <jdhNC> that should be more than 1c per minute for 5 liters
[02:12:19] <A2Sheds> http://www.borino.com/GYC/wattsbtu_calculator.htm
[02:12:30] <jdhNC> at 20c, less as it cools and some huge loss for efficiency?
[02:12:45] <A2Sheds> use BTU's easily, you have a 30 gal tank
[02:14:00] <A2Sheds> 500w = 1706 btu
[02:17:11] <A2Sheds> btu = energy for 0.1198 US gallons for 1 degF
[02:17:58] <A2Sheds> 30 gal = 250.2 lbs
[02:18:30] <A2Sheds> btu = 1lb of water 1 deg F
[02:19:19] <danimal_laptop> so its 1706btu/hr?
[02:19:44] <A2Sheds> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_thermal_unit
[02:20:33] <danimal_laptop> so it is per hour
[02:20:45] <A2Sheds> yes
[02:21:27] <danimal_laptop> so it should be able to cool the tank about 7f per hour
[02:21:53] <danimal_laptop> by that math
[02:22:27] <A2Sheds> actual will be in the ballpark
[02:22:37] <danimal_laptop> yea
[02:22:56] <danimal_laptop> thanks!
[02:22:58] <A2Sheds> they rate the chiller at a given temp and humidity
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[02:23:17] <A2Sheds> and it's not constant over either
[02:25:37] <A2Sheds> I need to get my A/C license, I can only buy r134
[02:26:33] <skunkKandT> we get ours from MN
[02:27:42] <skunkKandT> oh - reading comprehension is not my strong point
[02:28:10] <danimal_laptop> same here
[02:28:25] <danimal_laptop> i'm actually not too sure what my strong point is
[02:28:48] <danimal_laptop> it used to be alcohol consumption
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[02:40:41] <FinboySlick> Now this is a bit more like it...
[02:41:09] <FinboySlick> 8242 base thread with glxgears, youtube and everything else I can throw at it.
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[02:44:36] <danimal_laptop> nice!
[02:44:58] <danimal_laptop> A2Sheds: it was about 7f drop in an hour
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[02:47:01] <alex4nder> hey
[02:47:37] <danimal_laptop> hi
[02:48:14] <A2Sheds> \0/
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[03:00:09] <FinboySlick> Hmmm, isolcpu doesn't limit itself to rtai tasks, right?
[03:00:40] <FinboySlick> cpu2 seems to be left entirely unused.
[03:01:28] <A2Sheds> did you just enter that line into grub.conf?
[03:01:40] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Yeah.
[03:01:52] <FinboySlick> Well, just as in that's what gave me my 8k result.
[03:02:11] <FinboySlick> But I wonder if there's a way to give cpu2 some work too (if not RTAI work)
[03:03:45] <A2Sheds> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?The_Isolcpus_Boot_Parameter_And_GRUB2
[03:04:11] <A2Sheds> I'm not sure if it's just ubuntu's version of grub2
[03:04:42] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Um, this is pretty much what I did.
[03:05:09] <FinboySlick> I probably need to set afinity to all RTAI processes I start.
[03:05:19] <FinboySlick> So that they only run on cpu2
[03:05:23] <A2Sheds> 'ISOCPUS="isolcpus=1"' defined early in the file /etc/grub.d/07_rtai.
[03:06:12] <FinboySlick> I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about there.
[03:06:23] <A2Sheds> we were going to investigate this since just adding it to the kernel string has a different effect
[03:08:40] <FinboySlick> What's the different effect?
[03:08:56] <FinboySlick> What I did seems to do what the kernel doc for isolcpus is supposed to do.
[03:10:06] <A2Sheds> isolate emc to 1 cpu core and have the other cpu core for other processes vs everything on 1 cpu core
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[03:12:59] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I'm not sure this is what the article you presented describes.
[03:13:41] <A2Sheds> that why we wanted to check
[03:13:45] <FinboySlick> isolcpus takes a CPU out of the scheduler's list, making the scheduler only use one CPU.
[03:14:19] <FinboySlick> Since starting emc2 or latency-test is done by the scheduler, it starts it on the CPUs it has left.
[03:14:23] <A2Sheds> it's about how you get grub2 to actually implement isolcpus
[03:15:13] <FinboySlick> I think the key here is to have the processor afinity for the emc2 and latency-test processes set to the isolated CPU.
[03:15:24] <A2Sheds> sure
[03:17:28] <FinboySlick> Is this something anyone has worked on?
[03:24:33] <FinboySlick> Heh, I guess this is exactly what you were telling me ;)
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[04:09:05] <FinboySlick> Setting affinity of the latency test to my free CPU, I managed to shave another 1000 off the latency test under 'everything is crawling' stress.
[04:16:38] <danimal_laptop> sweet, i made an aluminum heat exchanger by wrapping aluminum tubing around a pipe on the lathe
[04:17:23] <FinboySlick> danimal_laptop: Square or round tubing?
[04:18:00] <FinboySlick> danimal_laptop: Finding a way to squeeze the inside of your coil against the tube would probably give you better contact.
[04:23:20] <Danimal_garage> round
[04:25:52] <FinboySlick> Danimal_garage: I'm sure it works quite well regardless.
[04:26:51] <Danimal_garage> i hope so!
[04:27:06] <FinboySlick> Danimal_garage: Do you use isolcpu?
[04:28:07] <Danimal_garage> i dont know what it is so i doubt it
[04:28:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://www.logicpd.com/products/system-on-modules/omap35x-som-lv/
[04:29:54] <FinboySlick> Danimal_garage: I'm getting pretty good results tweaking around it.
[04:30:11] <Danimal_garage> http://www.flickr.com/photos/66828621@N02/6387171457/
[04:30:31] <Danimal_garage> 1/2" tubing, about 12 feet of it there
[04:31:00] <FinboySlick> Danimal_garage: Oooh, I thought you were trying to cool the center pipe with the tubing.
[04:31:11] <Danimal_garage> no
[04:31:38] <Danimal_garage> im going to run cold or hot water through it for my anodizing tank
[04:31:53] <FinboySlick> They don't look too kinked, did you use the 'fill with sand before bending' trick?
[04:33:21] <Danimal_garage> no i heated the sharp bends
[04:33:31] <Danimal_garage> however i wish i thought of sand!
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[04:35:17] <FinboySlick> Well, I'm pretty happy with the tweaking tonight :)
[04:35:57] <FinboySlick> Those are some fancy sprockets too, your work?
[04:37:36] <danimal_laptop> thanks! yes, thats what i make for a living.
[04:37:46] <danimal_laptop> www.homebrewedcomponents.com
[04:37:50] <danimal_laptop> thats my site
[04:38:07] <danimal_laptop> all made by emc2 machines :)
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[04:39:10] <FinboySlick> I think I saw a vid or two of sprockets being made, might they have been yours?
[04:39:47] <danimal_laptop> hmm i posted a lathe op once in here, but that's it
[04:40:10] <FinboySlick> Probably not then, they were on a home-made mill.
[04:40:19] <FinboySlick> Well, have to go.
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[04:41:19] <danimal_laptop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6I1oAPG0Ss
[04:41:45] <AdrianG> Hi guise. I've ordered custom silicone sleeves for my earphones. like this: http://www.pilotstuff.com/media/averysound/ShureA.jpg
[04:42:13] <AdrianG> what's a good way to glue them to the sleeve? something that'll be secure, but not too strong, so can detach them later on, in case earphones breakdown and need to be replaced.
[04:42:15] <Spida> danimal_laptop: The requested URL /cgi-bin/redirect.pl was not found on this server.
[04:42:59] <danimal_laptop> which link?
[04:43:43] <Tom_itx> maybe the file wasn't done uploading
[04:43:56] <danimal_laptop> its been on there for a while
[04:44:06] <Tom_itx> works fine here
[04:44:29] <Tom_itx> did you make that first tool holder?
[04:44:52] <Spida> danimal_laptop: i have javascript disabled.
[04:44:58] <danimal_laptop> yea
[04:45:49] <Tom_itx> do you enter that as 3 tools for the tool offset table?
[04:45:59] <danimal_laptop> just 3 offsets
[04:46:07] <Tom_itx> k
[04:47:28] <danimal_laptop> i almost never have to change them
[04:47:40] <danimal_laptop> the tool holder is welded to the turret lol
[04:48:20] <danimal_laptop> the 2 turning tools fit pretty tight into the holders
[04:48:28] <danimal_laptop> and the cutoff tool barely matters
[04:48:47] <Tom_itx> yea i figured that just knocked the corners off
[04:49:16] <Tom_itx> even if it's not round, the teeth still get cut later
[04:49:42] <Tom_itx> is that al or ti?
[04:49:52] <Tom_itx> looks like al
[04:50:04] <danimal_laptop> al
[04:51:03] <Tom_itx> ahh i see the weld now
[04:51:08] <Tom_itx> that's kinda brave
[04:51:15] <danimal_laptop> not a pretty one lol
[04:51:19] <danimal_laptop> why?
[04:51:38] <Tom_itx> what if you decide to use it for another purpose?
[04:51:41] <danimal_laptop> turrets are a dime a dozen.
[04:51:49] <Tom_itx> oh
[04:51:52] <danimal_laptop> it's one bolt
[04:52:02] <danimal_laptop> they're made to be interchangable
[04:52:08] <Tom_itx> ahh ok
[04:52:14] <danimal_laptop> or i could just break the weld
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[06:04:57] <Eartaker> Danimal_garage, you made your own tool holder?
[06:05:37] <Eartaker> I made one once... runout was .001 for a 3/4" endmill
[06:05:40] <Danimal_garage> for the lathe, yea
[06:05:45] <Eartaker> ahh
[06:05:54] <Danimal_garage> not bad
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[06:06:27] <Eartaker> I also make my own 60deg dovetail cutter
[06:06:30] <Eartaker> made
[06:06:42] <Danimal_garage> nice
[06:07:11] <Eartaker> this is the endmill holder I made
[06:07:12] <Eartaker> http://www.eartaker.net/pics/albums/userpics/10001/DSCN0617.JPG
[06:07:33] <Eartaker> here are the pics of the dovetail cutter http://www.eartaker.net/pics/thumbnails.php?album=6
[06:07:42] <Eartaker> carbide insert =]
[06:08:10] <Danimal_garage> ah thats cool
[06:08:31] <Eartaker> thanks
[06:14:37] <Loetmichel> mornin
[06:14:38] <Loetmichel> '
[06:14:46] <Eartaker> hi
[06:15:00] <Loetmichel> is taht a "weldon" type holder, Eartaker?
[06:15:04] <frysteev> hihi
[06:15:18] <Eartaker> weldon?
[06:17:01] <Loetmichel> a tool holder with a cylindrical hole and 2 90° sideways screws
[06:17:57] <Loetmichel> unlike a collet which grips the thool bei comressing a tapered slittet part with a top nut
[06:18:03] <Eartaker> I only have 2 set screw
[06:18:30] <Eartaker> I machined it to go with my Tormach tooling
[06:18:32] <A2Sheds> anyone have a 1mm hex key I could use for a minute?
[06:18:41] <Eartaker> 1*
[06:18:54] <Loetmichel> ah, so its like a weldeon holder. but with oene set screw less
[06:19:12] * Loetmichel lends A2Sheds a 1mm allen key ;-)
[06:19:34] <Eartaker> sure... the lip at the top lets it rest on the spindle so that you get the same Z height every time
[06:19:55] <Loetmichel> <- electronican , has very small tools ;-)
[06:20:55] <A2Sheds> next time I'll buy 2
[06:21:14] <A2Sheds> it's the only size missing
[06:21:15] <AdrianG> ok
[06:21:19] <AdrianG> anyone knows about glues
[06:21:22] <Loetmichel> Eartaker: i have no use for these, but what i made once was a holder to use a circular saw blade as a mill bit ...
[06:21:38] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5474
[06:21:38] <AdrianG> whats the best glue to glue silicone/vinyl with to plastic? something not too strong, so that I can rip it off easily.
[06:21:39] <Eartaker> like a slitting saw?
[06:21:49] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5471
[06:21:54] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5468
[06:22:21] <Eartaker> nice
[06:22:22] <Loetmichel> i admit: i placed myself behind the gantry sides as i used this ;-)
[06:22:38] <Eartaker> lol
[06:22:43] <Loetmichel> 'cause if the blade gets loose at 10000RPM....
[06:22:47] <Eartaker> O_
[06:22:48] <Eartaker> O_O
[06:22:58] <Eartaker> I would do the same
[06:26:09] <Loetmichel> movement of the ganrtry was 2mm to small for the size of the "sacrifice plate"
[06:26:19] <Loetmichel> so i had to improvize
[06:26:20] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[06:27:34] <Loetmichel> AdrianG: depends: silicone wont stick to anything else if hardened.
[06:27:49] <AdrianG> Loetmichel: not even superglue?
[06:27:56] <Loetmichel> vinyl and "plastic" : vinyl IS plastic, i would try CA
[06:28:04] <Loetmichel> not even superglue
[06:28:12] <AdrianG> so u cant glue -anything- to silicone?
[06:28:28] <Loetmichel> thats right, not even fresh silicone
[06:28:37] <AdrianG> thats pretty ridiculous
[06:29:01] <AdrianG> I hope they make decent quality sleeves then that snap-on tightly.
[06:29:58] <Loetmichel> thats the reason you should cut out any remains and wahs with silicone remover if you have some loosened silicone seals in your bathroom before applying new silicone sealer
[06:30:23] <Loetmichel> s/wahs/wash
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[06:34:49] <Loetmichel> hmmm, as i read "silicone"... anyone knows a cheap supplyer for 1 or 2mm thick silicone sheet, but with enough carbon powder in it to be slightly conducting? i need new desk toppings for my workplace. (ESD)
[06:37:00] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12457 <- the old (waxed carton) surface is badly damaged... and i have about 40m*90cm of desk to resurface at the company
[06:50:08] * Loetmichel will drive to work now
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[08:14:16] <Loetmichel> re@ work
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[08:38:56] <awallin> mornin (re: when around? around now until about 12 hours from now...)
[08:42:35] <Loetmichel> hrhr
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[14:33:07] <JT-Shop> Anyway, the machine is running ok. It still locks up and crashes from time
[14:33:09] <JT-Shop> to time. It usually happens when we're opening, closing, loading a file,
[14:33:11] <JT-Shop> starting a program,... In other words it doesn't just crash while it's
[14:33:12] <JT-Shop> running, it only happens when we're doing something. We just can't pin
[14:33:14] <JT-Shop> point the cause. We know it's not the computer. My feeling is that
[14:33:16] <JT-Shop> something not right with Ubunto/EMC or something with the code we're
[14:33:17] <JT-Shop> loading. Our plan is to keep running and hope at some point we figure it
[14:33:19] <JT-Shop> out.
[14:33:43] <JT-Shop> this is from the guy that has two different computers he has tried, could it be a bad liveCD?
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[14:42:20] <cradek> "We know it's not the computer" is the place where I would start asking questions
[14:43:03] <JT-Shop> he installed two different computers, one a brand new D525 Foxcon
[14:43:05] <cradek> but I suppose it could be a cd. it has a verify function, did he run it?
[14:43:19] <cradek> if it passes that, the cd's probably fine
[14:43:23] <JT-Shop> dunno, I just e-mailed him to ask
[14:44:13] <JT-Shop> I do know he generates the g code with visual mill on a windoz computer then transfers the file with a usb stick
[14:44:36] <cradek> do you know what he means by "locks up" and "crashes"?
[14:45:04] <JT-Shop> the computer becomes unresponsive and he has to power cycle it
[14:45:21] <JT-Shop> like an endless loop is running
[14:46:20] <cradek> when it locks up, can he still move windows around? does the mouse pointer still move? does the capslock light still work?
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[14:46:42] <JT-Shop> I dont' know about the capslock light, I'll ask him
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[14:47:26] <cradek> do you know if he has run memtest? did he use any common parts when trying the two computers?
[14:47:58] <cradek> (I can easily imagine sharing ram, for instance)
[14:48:01] <JT-Shop> yes, he ran memtest on both and no common parts were used from either computer
[14:48:16] <cradek> ah, ok
[14:48:23] <JT-Shop> the D525 was a complete brand new computer
[14:48:27] <cradek> using any custom kins, comps, etc?
[14:48:56] <JT-Shop> trivkins, 3 axis XZA
[14:49:37] <JT-Shop> I run the same config on my plasma computer to test as he has a 5i20
[14:49:37] <cradek> XZA sounds interesting
[14:49:45] <JT-Shop> yea
[14:50:47] <JT-Shop> brb, I've cooled down so much I'm getting cold now :/
[14:51:08] <cradek> not sure what to advise he try, other than collect more data :-/
[14:55:35] <mrsun> hmm, does mach3 only handle steppers? :)
[15:16:58] <pcw_home> Mach can work with external servo controllers (Galil etc) and of course step/dir driven servos (is this the Mach channel?)
[15:19:24] <JT-Shop> lol
[15:19:58] <mrsun> pcw_home, was just wondering, just read it on a yahoo group and didnt want to join another channel to ask :P
[15:33:51] <pcw_home> This reminds me why those comments about PCs not being suitable controllers for robots on Practical Machinist bug me
[15:33:53] <pcw_home> I think having an open realtime framework on hardware with much better floating point performance than most DSPs and real time access to
[15:33:55] <pcw_home> all motion information in one place is an ideal robot controller...
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[15:40:26] <A2Sheds> I just wish x86 cpu's would have tighter irq response times
[15:43:32] <pcw_home> Probably not all that important (unless you are trying to generate steps)
[15:43:33] <pcw_home> 20 uSec jitter on a servo is no problem for most things
[15:45:05] <pcw_home> (and could actually be made totally irrelevant if the actual thread activation time we taken into account)
[15:45:15] <A2Sheds> or is it really just RTAI? I don't recall how much tighter QNX was
[15:46:00] <pcw_home> There are probably some hardware issues as well (DMA block transfers)
[15:47:33] <A2Sheds> I saw a demo from a research group last year at Manufacturing Week that had a micro-mill machining sub-micron parts
[15:48:05] <A2Sheds> they ran Windows and claimed they had <5us response times
[15:48:33] <pcw_home> As thing move mode to switched/buffered (PCIE) instead of bus architecture i would expect hardware blocks to be less frequent
[15:49:05] <A2Sheds> i think they had realtime extensions by Radysis
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[15:50:24] <pcw_home> I just got some of our hardware working with some windows real time kernel (it claimed really good real tiem but it was dreadful when measured againtt our clock)
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[15:51:49] <pcw_home> Probably <5 uSec on very carefully selected hardware
[15:51:56] <A2Sheds> I had this servo stage running with <3um repeatably until one of the servos or encoders went wacky. stall, jitter
[15:52:15] <A2Sheds> figures, the day before a 4 day holiday
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[15:53:23] <pcw_home> As I said if the servo thread takes the actual time into account 20 or even 100 uSec of jitter is immaterial
[15:55:26] <A2Sheds> this one was set to 15us, was fine at 25mm/sec
[15:55:43] <GoSebGo> Dxf to gcode: how? Anyone use the programs at <http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Cam
[15:55:52] <pcw_home> People get all excited about low jitter but unless you are driving step motor with software it probably does not matter that much
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[15:55:54] <GoSebGo> ?
[15:57:12] <cradek> do you have autocad?
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[15:57:54] <GoSebGo> Pcw, i'm working on a patch to measure jitter each servo loop and report actual loop iteration time to the thread functions, seems to be working well
[15:58:00] <GoSebGo> Cradek: no...
[15:58:36] <GoSebGo> I've got heels and freecad, but they blow up all the time
[15:59:00] <GoSebGo> A friend made a dxf and i want to cut it for him
[15:59:20] <GoSebGo> s/heels/heeks/
[15:59:30] <GoSebGo> Well i guess i have heels too
[15:59:31] <cradek> you want to cut on the lines, or inside/outside them, or something else?
[16:00:08] <GoSebGo> I'd like to select elements for milling and specify cutter comp
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[16:01:13] <AndChat-> On an element by element basis
[16:01:32] <cradek> maybe you can find a naive-cam program to make basic silly "on the path" gcode and then add entry/exit/comp by hand
[16:01:38] <AndChat-> Whoops, my connection dropped
[16:01:46] <cradek> realize can do that, but you need autocad
[16:01:59] <AndChat-> Good idea
[16:02:03] <cradek> (if it's a one off and acad r12 can read your dxf, I could do it for you)
[16:03:05] <AndChat-> We'll probably have to iterate the drawing a couple of times, we're trying to match a physical object we dont (yet) have a drawing for
[16:03:29] <AndChat-> Plus i want this capability in my toolbox!
[16:03:48] <cradek> I'm sure you know without me telling you that dxf is the wrong format to use, and once you've got your data there, you've already half lost the game
[16:04:06] <pcw_home> GoSebGo Re jitter: that would be valuable as a starting point for jitter compensation
[16:04:07] <pcw_home> (in a velocity mode servo or hardware stepgen this would allow tolerance of relatively huge amounts of jitter)
[16:04:12] <cradek> because ... it's flat and meant for printing
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[16:04:33] <AndChat-> Micges has an sf project called vec2ngx, but it seems inactive
[16:05:20] <pcw_home> (or reduce jitters noise injection for high precision motion)
[16:05:30] <AndChat-> Cradek, he's using some windows cad program and exporting to dxf at the end for fabrication
[16:06:00] <cradek> it's a 2d part?
[16:06:42] <cradek> I guess dxf is fine for 2d like engraving work
[16:07:00] <AndChat-> It's a 2.5d part, is that the term? A bunch of flat cuts at different depths
[16:07:02] <cradek> plasma/laser cutout
[16:07:23] <cradek> how are the depths represented in the dxf?
[16:08:21] <AndChat-> So i want to select a contour and say "cut outside/on/in this, at z=this value"
[16:08:28] <cradek> autocad has depth (2d entities at various Z), but I think qcad (etc) don't
[16:09:20] <AndChat-> The depths are represented out of band ;-)
[16:09:29] <cradek> I would do that by loading the flat drawing into autocad, raising the entities to the desired Z values, then using REALIZE to export it, then tediously add ccomp and entry/exit by hand
[16:09:43] <cradek> I don't know of any other way
[16:10:16] <cradek> if the shapes are simple, you could ask him to dimension it and then just write the gcode, I guess :-/
[16:10:26] <AndChat-> I think ive seen references to a dxf to gcode filter in some of our sample configs
[16:10:51] <AndChat-> Guess i'll experiment & report back
[16:11:01] <cradek> yes do report
[16:11:26] <cradek> if you care to send it to me, I'd have fun giving it a shot
[16:11:57] <AndChat-> Thanks, i might do that :-)
[16:12:41] <AndChat-> Seems like ttt does much of the back-end work needed here (sort of), but
[16:12:59] <AndChat-> It'd be nice to have a gui front end
[16:13:24] <cradek> if you want to pick features and set out-of-band properties, I don't see any way around a gui
[16:13:39] <cradek> ... which makes me think the whole process is kind of sucky
[16:14:24] <AndChat-> Heh
[16:15:00] <AndChat-> Bbl, work
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[16:37:50] <ssi> is there a magic variable that contains the current tool's radius?
[16:37:57] <ssi> I seem to remember reading something about that, but I can't find it now
[16:38:07] <skunkKandT> Everything I have been cutting has been 2.5d..
[16:38:17] <skunkKandT> I think it is one of the vars..
[16:40:38] <ssi> I'm trying to cut something on the lathe with cutter compensation, and it's giving me fits
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[16:41:02] <ssi> it's like a sawtooth cut... 30 degree angle in on one side, straight face on the other
[16:41:21] <ssi> G42 compensates it correctly on the angled side, but then cuts a cutter diameter's too far on the straight side
[16:41:25] <pcw_home> skunkKandT: did you figure out what wrong with index?
[16:41:27] <ssi> G41 behaves opposite
[16:41:32] <pcw_home> whats
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[16:42:21] <cradek> ssi: check your tool table, make sure orientation and diameter are both right
[16:42:35] <skunkKandT> pcw_home: I hooked another encoder into the same input and rigid tapped 'manually' ;)
[16:42:46] <cradek> ssi: I'm guessing you have wrong orientation. cutter comp will get that right if you tell it about your tool
[16:42:52] <skunkKandT> so I think for whatever reason the encoder in the spindle is missing the index
[16:43:21] <skunkKandT> I was suprised at how low the voltage is coming from the encoders +/- 1.8ish volts for differential.
[16:43:43] <cradek> skunkKandT: yuck, hope it's wiring and you can find it.
[16:44:32] <ssi> cradek: that must be what it is...
[16:44:36] <skunkKandT> Well - the voltage for all channels are the same.. so - I don't think it is wiring..
[16:45:02] <ssi> I have the orientation set so that it looks right on the screen... but it's odd the way it doesn't match what the docs say it should be
[16:46:13] <cradek> first diagram here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/lathe/lathe-user.html#_lathe_tool_orientation
[16:46:46] <cradek> guessing you have 2 or 1, depending on which way your sawtooth goes
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[16:46:49] <ssi> it's 2
[16:47:10] <cradek> is that what you had in your tool table?
[16:47:12] <ssi> yep
[16:47:27] <ssi> and 75/45 front/back angle
[16:47:36] <cradek> those angles only affect display, not motion
[16:47:50] <Gromits> why would a signal not show up in HAL Configuration window, but be shown in Hal Meter?
[16:47:58] <cradek> if you're still having trouble, send me your sawtooth gcode and I'll have a peek
[16:48:19] <cradek> er better yet, pastebin it so anyone can look
[16:48:26] <ssi> sure, gimme a sec
[16:48:29] <cradek> brb
[16:50:37] <ssi> this is probably not the prettiest code ever
[16:50:38] <ssi> http://pastebin.com/fhHWRJkU
[16:51:00] <ssi> so T32 is my actual tool, with a .0625 radius, 75/45 angles and orientation 2
[16:51:09] <ssi> T33 is the same tool but with a 0 radius
[16:51:27] <ssi> I'm using that to draw the outline of what the finished profile should be
[16:51:59] <ssi> also, I'm turning off compensation in between the angled infeed and the feed in Z. It complains about gouging if I don't.
[16:54:03] <Gromits> I have two signals related to my THC config (called, FilteredArcOK and FloatAndTorchOn) that do not show up under signals in HAL Configuration window. However, if I launch the HAL Meter they are there. Why would this be?
[16:57:07] <skunkKandT> Gromits: I don't know.. if you change the name? for shits and giggles?
[16:57:20] <skunkKandT> I rarely use hal configuration
[16:57:50] <Gromits> HAL Configuration is nice as you can watch state with little LED-like indications
[16:58:15] <skunkKandT> huh. cool
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[17:03:41] <pcw_home> skunkKandT 1.8V is fine if a little low as receiver sensitivity is 200 mV.
[17:03:43] <pcw_home> Possibly dirt in the encoder? (index is a separate sensor)
[17:07:20] <skunkKandT> pcw_home: maybe.. It was a nice sealed unit that we put in a crappy enviroment.. So It could have gotten crap in it.
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[17:07:53] <skunkKandT> I have some parts I will be making soon that I need to get it working again. :)
[17:08:05] <skunkKandT> So - I will be tearing into it.
[17:08:29] <Gromits> I changed their names, but they still do not show up. Odd. I wonder if this a limit on number of signal names or something?
[17:08:56] <skunkKandT> pcw_home: this one http://youtu.be/5vvP4L_hr90
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[17:13:06] <skunkKandT> Gromits: random thought.. Is this signal only created in the postgui file?
[17:13:34] <Gromits> It is created in a secondary .hal file thc300.hal
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[17:18:24] <Gromits> Now that I look closer, I see several of my signals not showing up in HAL Configuration.
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[17:20:29] <pcw_home> Looks like its sealed
[17:20:49] <skunkKandT> pcw_home: that is what we though ;)
[17:21:10] <skunkKandT> *thought
[17:21:38] <Gromits> Found them. This is a bug (perhaps in 2.5?). They under axis letter A for some reason.
[17:21:50] <skunkKandT> heh - odd ;)
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[17:35:41] <tom3p> Gromits i use the hal configuration panel a lot, but never used the 'watch' tab. indeed it has 'led's for the signal states. thx for the tip
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[17:36:35] <tom3p> and floats too
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[18:10:58] <danimal_laptop> hi
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[18:15:02] <JT-Work> bye
[18:15:27] <andypugh> Something I said?
[18:15:51] <andypugh> Do any of you use G41 on a lathe?
[18:16:08] <JT-Work> yes
[18:16:32] <andypugh> Any tips? I want to machine a sphere.
[18:17:14] <JT-Work> make sure your leadin move is on the correct side
[18:18:04] <andypugh> Normally I have the tools set up so that the tangents are correct for diameter and facing. I guess I could set up "alias" tools with the controlled point in the middle, and the radius set up in the tool table?
[18:18:33] <JT-Work> oh yea I use the correct orientation of the tool too
[18:18:40] <ssi> andypugh: I'm working on trying to figure out how to use compensation myself
[18:18:58] <JT-Work> I'll put up an example when I get back to the shop
[18:19:01] <JT-Work> bye
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[18:19:40] <andypugh> I was wondering if I could compensate in the G-code, perhaps by correcting the position of the centre point.
[18:20:14] <Danimal_garage> buy a big truck or a porsche. thats how most people compensate around here
[18:20:23] <andypugh> I have an R1.
[18:20:34] <Danimal_garage> or a fast bike
[18:20:51] <Danimal_garage> thanks, almost forgot that one
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[18:20:55] <Danimal_garage> :)
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[18:21:11] <ssi> already been down that road, have the scars to prove it
[18:21:12] <Danimal_garage> andypugh: http://www.flickr.com/photos/66828621@N02/6387171457/
[18:21:15] <ssi> I compensate with airplanes now
[18:21:17] <andypugh> I am not sure what I am compensating for, but I agree, it has to be _something_
[18:21:34] <Danimal_garage> compensating for your small machine
[18:22:35] <Danimal_garage> made it on the lathe. .500" tubing
[18:22:46] <Danimal_garage> about 12 feet of it
[18:24:18] <andypugh> A guy in private emails has a machine that was working, but giving f-errors (this is a stepper machine with odd kinematics). He has "cleaned up" the INI and kins files, and now it doesn't f-error, but won't jog. (not even from the keyboard). I wonder what the problem is?
[18:25:09] <Danimal_garage> does it move via mdi or program?
[18:25:43] <pcw_home> Danimal_garage; is the coil electrically connected (so it gets anodized)
[18:26:44] <andypugh> Danimal_garage: He hasn't said. I asked the same question. It isn't the jog slider...
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[18:27:09] <Danimal_garage> andypugh: how about the max velocity in the traj section of the ini?
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[18:27:48] <Danimal_garage> pcw_home: it gets connected to the cathode so it wont disolve as fast
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[18:27:58] <andypugh> He is off to see if it moves with MDI. That should narrow things down a bit.
[18:28:23] <Danimal_garage> it does not get anodized, it would disolve faster if it was connected to the anode
[18:29:14] <Danimal_garage> it works well, should last about a year or so, and only cost $12
[18:31:13] <Danimal_garage> i just made a drum to wrap the tubing around on the manual lathe
[18:31:55] <A2Sheds> I haven't looked into the details of the servo loop in EMC with hostmot2. How do you compute the max speed in torque mode with a 5cpr encoder (post quad)?
[18:32:11] <A2Sheds> sorry 5000 count per rev
[18:32:59] <andypugh> A2Sheds: You are worried about the encoder counter keeping up?
[18:33:45] <A2Sheds> andypugh: sure, I'd like to determine the limits
[18:34:07] <A2Sheds> actually in velocity or torque mode
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[18:34:44] <andypugh> I think they count at 10MHz, so that's about 2000rps, or 120,000rpm.
[18:35:21] <andypugh> That might be out by a factor of 4.
[18:35:58] <A2Sheds> andypugh: is the 10MHz a hard limit of the PID in the fpga?
[18:36:00] <andypugh> Unless you are looking for servo speeds over 30,000 rpm, I think you wil be fine.
[18:36:34] <andypugh> No, you won't get 10Mhz PID. 10kHz is pushing it.
[18:36:35] <pcw_home> I thought anodization was self limiting and self healing (like electrolytic capacitor anodes)
[18:37:02] <A2Sheds> oh, 10MHz is the speed of the latch of the counters
[18:37:08] <andypugh> Yes
[18:37:33] <pcw_home> 10 KHz is possible with the PCI cards probably 2 KHz is about max for 7I43
[18:37:58] <pcw_home> encoder counter is faster than any known encoders
[18:38:09] <A2Sheds> whats the relationship of irq latency to servo not missing counts?
[18:38:19] <pcw_home> none
[18:39:01] <A2Sheds> so servo counting/positioning is all in the fpga's PID loop?
[18:39:06] <pcw_home> encoder counter is 16 bits so safe to 16 MHz worst case at 1 KHz sample rate
[18:39:10] <A2Sheds> or hostmot2
[18:39:57] <pcw_home> No the PID loop is in EMC HostMot2 just does the counting/PWM generation//stepgeneration etc
[18:40:09] <A2Sheds> ah ok
[18:40:53] <danimal_laptop> pcw_home: no, there is definitely a time limit for anodizing.
[18:41:11] <pcw_home> We have configs with PID in FPGA but not for EMC
[18:41:31] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I managed to shift all RTAI processes to the second CPU, that made a fair bit of difference.
[18:41:37] <danimal_laptop> after about an hour at 12ASF, 6061 will start to disolve
[18:42:26] <pcw_home> danimal_laptop: funny, works for capacitors (anodization forms near perfect insulator, current drops to near 0)
[18:43:18] <andypugh> There you are, Tantalum tube is the way to go.
[18:46:10] <FinboySlick> danimal_laptop: You anodizing the sprockets?
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[18:49:37] <danimal_laptop> yes
[18:52:55] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: are you below 1us yet? :p
[18:53:14] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Soon! Soon!
[18:53:38] <A2Sheds> please share the settings when you're done
[18:54:01] <FinboySlick> I can't seem to have it go above 5885 with my trick.
[18:54:35] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: did you test other Atom boards as well?
[18:55:06] <ssi> oh I think I know what's wrong with my compensation problem...
[18:55:13] <ssi> it won't let me cut into a sharp corner
[18:55:21] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I only have a couple other outdated ones. My trick is multi-core specific so it can only work on one of 'em.
[18:58:28] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: It would be relatively trivial to add to the different startup scripts though. Detect the value of isolcpu, taskset to that CPU when you launch any RT process.
[19:01:15] <A2Sheds> Holy Gauss Batman, the magnets in this servo are amazing
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[19:10:21] <IchGucksLive> hi all
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[19:43:34] <ssi> 30144
[19:43:39] <ssi> mischan
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[20:14:08] <IchGucksLive> hi all i hackt it axis http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqulCfB5ICU
[20:16:04] <IchGucksLive> but as always the simples things dont work i want to put the UV beside the red sqare at offset from its UV startpoint it does not work 2hr of progammiong around no solution why
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[20:20:59] <JT-Shop> more info on the crashing EMC computer http://pastebin.com/Q2Knn0pf
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[20:22:40] <cradek> #
[20:22:40] <cradek> Sometimes EMC just closes without
[20:22:40] <cradek> #
[20:22:42] <cradek> warning. That's what I call a crash.
[20:22:48] <JT-Shop> yea
[20:22:49] <cradek> he should check dmesg after that
[20:23:13] <JT-Shop> will dmesg still have the info after power cycling?
[20:23:15] <cradek> and "could still move the mouse pointer" is not a system hang
[20:23:21] <cradek> no
[20:23:47] <ssi> cradek: so my compensation issue is because I'm dumb and didn't understand the issues with cutting into a sharp corner
[20:24:05] <cradek> ssi: what do you mean?
[20:24:19] <ssi> http://www.prototechnical.com/~imcmahon/sawtooth.png
[20:24:34] <ssi> that was my original code... and it turns comp off before it makes the Z only feed
[20:24:41] <ssi> leaving comp on, it would complain about gouging
[20:24:53] <cradek> what emc version?
[20:24:53] <ssi> it's because I can't cut into that sharp radius... including the 90 degree corner at the end of each line
[20:24:56] <ssi> 2.4
[20:25:03] <cradek> what's the exact error?
[20:25:30] <ssi> Straight traverse in concave corner cannot be reached without gouging
[20:26:02] <cradek> sharp corners are no problem. probably your last move right in the corner of the sawtooth is impossible ("cannot be reached"), and that's the actual error
[20:26:25] <ssi> possibly... but even if I restrict it so it can't cut the last couple lines it complains
[20:26:35] <ssi> let me put together a test case
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[20:26:50] <cradek> it looks like you've got about 4 lines worth of trouble there - look at the rapids - sometimes they are going backward
[20:27:02] <ssi> yeah that shot is full up with issues
[20:27:07] <cradek> right
[20:27:20] <ssi> right now I'm trying to just trace the profile with/without comp
[20:27:26] <cradek> take out everything but the first few lines, turn on comp, and see the preview
[20:27:53] <cradek> it WILL work with comp but you must be careful to not ask for impossible things
[20:28:12] <cradek> you will see all the moves get shorter
[20:28:32] <cradek> I like to do comp with like /G41, /G40. then I can turn it on and off with block delete and watch the preview change
[20:28:47] <ssi> block delete eh... I haven't messed with that
[20:29:12] <ssi> this is what I have right now:
[20:29:12] <ssi> http://www.prototechnical.com/~imcmahon/sawtooth2.png
[20:29:21] <ssi> I added that 1/16 radius in the corner
[20:29:23] <ssi> and it seems ok with that
[20:31:29] <cradek> I don't understand - do you mean your cam or whatever treats it differently?
[20:31:50] <cradek> emc doesn't care if that corner is sharp or curved, it cares about the moves in the various passes you somehow program
[20:32:07] <cradek> because some of those passes become degenerate when you consider the tool size/shape
[20:32:08] <ssi> I'm not using any cam... all by hand
[20:32:38] <ssi> lemme do it without the radius and see what it has to say
[20:33:21] <cradek> cutting inside |\ shape is no problem, as long as you don't try to cut up in there where the round part of the tool doesn't fit
[20:33:27] <JT-Shop> ssi: what tool orientation are you using for that tool?
[20:33:43] <JT-Shop> nevermind I see
[20:33:44] <cradek> I can see from the sawtooth2.png that it's 2
[20:33:53] <cradek> see the +
[20:34:11] <JT-Shop> yea, saw it just after I hit enter :)
[20:34:13] <cradek> nevermind, I see your nevermind, I see
[20:34:26] <ssi> ok yeah
[20:34:32] <ssi> it fails if I try to do a sharp point
[20:34:49] <ssi> but I guess the idea is I don't need a radius, I just need a root flat that's at least a diameter width?
[20:34:54] <JT-Shop> and it should fail on an inside corner for that
[20:35:24] <cradek> I'm pretty sure you don't need either
[20:35:34] <ssi> it fails with a sharp corner
[20:35:37] <JT-Shop> iirc a diameter width + a smige
[20:35:57] <cradek> can you give me a simple example gcode to review
[20:36:01] <ssi> yeah, sec
[20:39:11] <ssi> sigh... when I make a simple example, suddenly it works fine
[20:39:15] <ssi> must be something dumb in my code
[20:39:58] <JT-Shop> are you turning on compensation before you get to the saw tooth shape?
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[20:41:56] <ssi> yeah, there's a leadin
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[20:42:07] <ssi> I just need to start from scratch somehow
[20:43:48] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/no-gouge.png
[20:44:08] <cradek> I ran this once with block delete on, so the upper red line shows the uncompensated program
[20:44:27] <cradek> the white line it's currently cutting shows the correctly compensated path
[20:44:32] <ssi> yeah
[20:44:35] <ssi> looks perfect
[20:44:37] <cradek> there is no problem with sharp corners
[20:46:01] <cradek> but if I tried to program a tiny move up in the corner where you can see the tool can't touch without gouging into one of the uncompensated red lines, I'd get the "unreachable without gouging" error
[20:46:11] <ssi> gotcha
[20:46:18] <ssi> I'll rewrite this and see what I can come up with
[20:46:20] <ssi> thanks for the help :)
[20:46:23] <cradek> welcome
[20:47:18] <ssi> btw, iphone "clinometer" app works well for measuring tool clearance angles :D
[20:47:47] <cradek> I doubt any iphone app would work well for me
[20:47:57] <ssi> due to lack of iphone?
[20:48:13] <cradek> yes I bet that's one big stumbling block
[20:48:31] <ssi> probably
[20:49:21] <ssi> found another neat use for it yesterday
[20:49:32] <ssi> if you have two devices that clinometer is running on
[20:49:37] <ssi> you can link them together to make one a remote display
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[20:49:59] <ssi> had to lay one on the center section of the airplane I'm building and level the thing laterally and longitudinally
[20:50:17] <ssi> was able to have the sensing phone in the center, and read it on a second phone 15' back while shimming the tail
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[20:55:40] <andypugh> Maybe I should keep my spare iPhone then?
[20:55:55] <ssi> I'm debating the same thing :)
[20:56:29] <ssi> I was hoping the app would let you string together multiple devices
[20:56:34] <ssi> and use one to see the values of all of them
[20:56:37] <ssi> but no such luck
[20:58:59] <andypugh> Don't you hate it when you remove the outer packaging and film lid, then read "remove the outer packaging and piece film lid several times"
[21:00:48] <ssi> get out the hot glue gun!
[21:00:49] <ssi> :D
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[21:20:13] <ssi> infinite loops in gcode really trip emc out pretty bad
[21:20:34] <ve7it> cradek, playing with your lathe example..... could you post what your tool table has in it for tool 2? it seems like at end of move there is a major gouge
[21:20:54] <andypugh> ssi ESC breaks the loop
[21:20:58] <ssi> does it?
[21:21:06] <andypugh> Eventually
[21:21:09] <ssi> :D
[21:22:29] <andypugh> What controls where the "controlled point" cross is on a lathe tool?
[21:23:13] <andypugh> Ignore that. I have a left hand tool with right-hand geometry set up :-)
[21:23:49] <ve7it> cradek, isnt the rapid move an the end 0.3" inside the material
[21:24:00] <ve7it> at
[21:25:58] <ssi> is there a majic variable that I can read to know the current tool's diameter?
[21:26:10] <andypugh> Yes.
[21:26:51] <ssi> may I know it? :D
[21:27:15] <ssi> I remember reading about it, but I can't find it in the docs
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[21:27:52] <andypugh> Try #5410 (or #5409 or #5411)
[21:29:02] <ssi> 5410 looks like the winner
[21:29:09] <ssi> 5409 says 0, 5411 says 82
[21:29:28] <andypugh> possibly also #<_ccomp> depending on your version.
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[21:30:36] <ssi> #<_comp> just says #########
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[21:31:39] <JT-Shop> ssi: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_overview.html#sub:Numbered-Parameters
[21:31:53] <ssi> sweet, thanks
[21:32:25] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-11-20_13-22-22_706.jpg
[21:32:31] <syyl> got it cast last saturday :D
[21:32:47] <syyl> got one bad shot at it...
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[21:36:10] <skunkKandT> syyl: awesome! another thing I want t o try some day
[21:36:28] <syyl> thanks :)
[21:36:38] <syyl> and i even machined it...
[21:36:39] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-11-23_20-58-01_38.jpg
[21:36:53] <JT-Shop> Nice!
[21:36:53] <syyl> on my road to rigid tapping :D
[21:39:36] <skunkKandT> my rigid tapping road took a detour
[21:39:56] <skunkKandT> (seems my spindle encoder lost its index)
[21:40:32] <syyl> ouch
[21:40:40] <syyl> dirt on the disc?
[21:40:55] <skunkKandT> maybe.. I don't know
[21:41:00] <skunkKandT> have not looked at it yet
[21:41:27] <syyl> but...if it can not be fixed, it aint broken ;)
[21:41:41] <skunkKandT> :)
[21:42:59] <ssi> syyl: cast that yourself?
[21:43:05] <syyl> jip
[21:43:06] <ssi> that's on my list of stuff to do
[21:43:46] <syyl> friend of mine has a charcoal oven and a few hundred kilograms of oil-bound sand
[21:46:18] <ssi> what mill are you working on?
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[21:48:27] <syyl> a heaviely modified deckel g2 engraver..
[21:48:59] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/steuerung_3.jpg
[21:49:17] <ssi> ooo cool
[21:50:12] <ssi> I wish I had motivation to finish my mill
[21:50:13] <ssi> hahah
[21:50:22] <JT-Shop> I guess for rigid tapping you only need one index pulse, so if you have more than one index pulse per rev it still works?
[21:50:35] <syyl> hmm
[21:51:45] <syyl> emc couples the linear motion to the spindle rotation
[21:51:53] <syyl> with only an index
[21:52:00] <syyl> that would be a bit..rough?
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[21:52:35] <JT-Shop> I think it is only and issue for a lathe with multi pass threading, but I may be full of crap too
[21:52:46] <JT-Shop> s/and/an
[21:53:07] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: do you laser etch phones?
[21:53:10] <ssi> this is how I did it on my lathe:
[21:53:11] <ssi> http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/205204_655375525742_71107655_34534452_5631970_n.jpg
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[21:53:33] <ssi> note that one of the notches is deeper... one opto is further in to catch the index pulse
[21:53:47] <JT-Shop> nice work
[21:53:52] <ssi> thx
[21:54:16] <syyl> that looks straight forward
[21:54:17] <ssi> works very well
[21:54:22] <syyl> is the disc laser/plasmacut?
[21:54:34] <ssi> plasma
[21:54:36] <ssi> http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/391037_733989228252_71107655_35191172_1031842993_n.jpg
[21:54:41] <ssi> there's a 5/8-24 thread I did last night
[21:54:50] <syyl> looks like a thread
[21:54:51] <syyl> ;)
[21:56:45] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: http://www.flickr.com/photos/66828621@N02/6387171457/
[21:56:47] <ssi> I have a somewhat narrow window of speeds I can run the spindle at for good results
[21:56:51] <Danimal_garage> made it on the lathe
[21:57:02] <ssi> if it's too slow, for some reason the threading cycle never picks up spindle at speed
[21:57:20] <ssi> if it's too fast, the Z can't keep up quite right and I get some lead error
[21:57:23] <JT-Shop> nice Dan
[21:57:42] <Danimal_garage> thanks. 1/2 aluminum, 12 feet long
[21:57:55] <Danimal_garage> heat exchanger for the anodizing tank
[21:57:56] * JT-Shop goes to remove some chips from the ballista trigger
[21:58:34] <ssi> dan: how exactly did you do that on a lathe?
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[22:00:42] <mrsun> on ballscrews when they say 360mm is that overall length (including the machined parts) or is it just the thread ?
[22:00:54] <ssi> probably overall length
[22:02:36] <mrsun> but how long is the machinings etc
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[22:02:46] <Danimal_garage> i had a big tube, put a slot in the end that the center tube would fit in, and just wrapped the tubing around the bigger tube while spinning the chuck by hand
[22:03:57] <ssi> haha ok
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[22:13:41] <andypugh> mrsun: Normally machining is extra, you just get a fully-threaded length
[22:14:43] <andypugh> Well, I say "normally" I mean for 4 of the 5 I have bought.
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[22:34:45] <mrsun> andypugh, guess i have to send a message and ask the seller then =)
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[22:35:30] <andypugh> Seems best.
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[22:39:52] <DaViruz> i would have guessed that 360mm specified would mean 360mm possible travel
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[22:46:10] <DaViruz> also, on the subject of ebay, i just picked up a set of four VFDs for $150, feeling very happy about that!
[22:47:14] <Danimal_garage> sweet! what hp?
[22:47:28] <DaViruz> tiny ones, three 0.25kW and one 1.1kW
[22:48:03] <Danimal_garage> cool
[22:48:38] <Danimal_garage> the little ones work good for coolant pumps
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[22:49:34] <Danimal_garage> i got a couple 1hp ones on my machines for coolant
[22:50:02] <DaViruz> sounds luxurious, but i guess it can be usefull if you lack 3ph power
[22:50:06] <DaViruz> -l
[22:50:58] <Danimal_garage> yea, i use them sincei dont have 3ph
[22:51:46] <DaViruz> one of these little ones will actually go on the spindle of my tiny mill
[22:51:52] <DaViruz> only a 200W spindle motor
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[22:53:04] <JT-Shop> dang the shop smells good...
[22:53:33] <DaViruz> mine doesn't, coolant rot :(
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[22:54:29] <andypugh> My coolant pump works fine rewired delta and with a capacitor across the phases, running single-phase.
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[22:55:12] <ssi> I wish I had a machine with a coolant pump :'(
[22:55:35] <JT-Shop> I had a fractional hp 3 phase motor run for a couple of years on single phase and never complained once... I only found out by accident that one wire was not connected
[22:55:36] * skunkKandT wipes coolant from his hands
[22:55:37] <andypugh> I hardly use it.
[22:55:41] <Danimal_garage> same here DaViruz
[22:56:05] <Danimal_garage> nasty coolant in the lathe
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[22:56:12] <DaViruz> i always use it if only for clearing chips
[22:56:13] <skunkKandT> as of right now - my coolant pump is switched on with a computer power strip
[22:56:14] <andypugh> ssi: a squeeze-bottle of Rocol works OK. Though you do often end up with parts too hot to handle...
[22:56:29] <ssi> I have a koolmist setup for my knee mill
[22:56:37] <ssi> but I really want to get a proper enclosure and flood coolant on the cnc lathe
[22:56:39] <DaViruz> fully enclosed machine with hefty coolant flow is niice.
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[22:57:11] <andypugh> The lathe isn't really right for it. Though I have considered plumbing it into the Mill coolant circuit.
[22:58:15] <andypugh> Bets on how high this goes? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alexander-toolmaster-milling-machine-not-deckel-aciera-schaublin-lathe-/200679616537
[22:58:25] <JT-Shop> andypugh: sserial 0 1 2 3 4 is that something to select in a config?
[22:58:29] <DaViruz> chlorine bleach works pretty well for freshening up nasty coolant systems
[22:59:02] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I don't understand the question.
[22:59:02] <DaViruz> emptying the system, flushing with water a couple of times, and then letting it run with chlorine for an hour or so
[22:59:11] <JT-Shop> I hate the get me more hits with what it ain't (not deckel aciera schaublin lathe)
[22:59:19] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,39/id,14940/limit,6/limitstart,12/lang,english/#15063
[22:59:22] <andypugh> It's fair in this case.
[22:59:51] <andypugh> Anyone looking for those would be happy to find that. Especially with all the accessories.
[23:00:38] <andypugh> It's even listed as an Alexander/Deckel in lathes.co.uk (http://www.lathes.co.uk/alexander/index.html)
[23:01:29] <andypugh> The tilting/swinging dividing head which uses the overarm for a tailstock looks very useful.
[23:01:52] <Danimal_garage> i hate irrelevant keywords. Like when i was looking for a car. i don't want to see your fucking grand am when i'm looking for a ranger
[23:02:52] <andypugh> Yes, but those are different. These are effectively identical, with parts interchangeability.
[23:03:25] <andypugh> There are people would pay 3k for the dividing head for their Deckel.
[23:06:15] <danimal_laptop> not to me. i don't want to see someone's feeler when i'm looking for a hardinge.
[23:06:59] <ssi> got my silly cut working properly
[23:08:00] <ssi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiwqBze1y-0
[23:09:17] <andypugh> For a while I had a search active for Aciera/Deckel/Schaublin. I didn't put Alexander in there because they are rare. At that time I would definitely have been wanting that Alexander. Actually, I still do.
[23:09:24] <DaViruz> andypugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl-d55-3HUA
[23:09:27] <DaViruz> friend of yours? :)
[23:10:29] <skunkKandT> ssi: cool - what is it going to be?
[23:11:00] <ssi> baffles for a form 1 can
[23:11:56] <skunkKandT> ssi: heh - funny - I just watched your threading video today.. I was trying to see if you where using emc ;)
[23:12:33] <ssi> I am indeed :D
[23:12:43] <ssi> my plasma table is still running mach3
[23:12:46] <ssi> but one day I intend to change that
[23:12:55] <ssi> mostly running mach3 because my THC is setup for it out of the box
[23:13:14] <JT-Shop> ssi what kind of THC do you have?
[23:13:18] <skunkKandT> gasp!
[23:13:26] <ssi> CandCNC
[23:13:28] <ssi> the cheap one
[23:13:31] <ssi> LCTHC I think
[23:13:45] <JT-Shop> I have the cost effective one from Mesa
[23:14:02] <ssi> hahaha
[23:14:09] <DaViruz> ssi: you a sport pilot?
[23:14:12] <ssi> I didn't even know mesa existed when I built this machine ;)
[23:14:33] <ssi> DaViruz: if by 'sport' you mean 'recreational', yes
[23:14:41] <ssi> 'sport pilot' means degraded privileges :D
[23:15:06] <DaViruz> oh
[23:15:06] <andypugh> DaViruz: Nobody I know. I bet he is popular with the neighbours when he turns that equipment on.
[23:15:30] <DaViruz> andypugh: he says in a video that his neighbours doesn't mind :)
[23:15:45] <andypugh> He's rather foul-mouthed, isn't he?
[23:16:27] <elmo40> andypugh: what did you mean about the 120m/min for me turning AR235 ?
[23:16:49] <DaViruz> once though he said his neighbours might disapprove when he pulled the entire neighbourhood down to 190V-ish on the grid
[23:18:04] <andypugh> elmo40: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLpv3x0hlck
[23:19:25] <JT-Shop> andypugh: did you see cmorley's comment about the sserial selections?
[23:20:06] <andypugh> elmo40: This is my attempt, but my lathe is not stiff enough.
[23:20:12] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPP4r3H2VO8
[23:20:38] <ssi> hardturning is amazing
[23:20:52] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Ah, yes, but he hasn't got any sserial hardware, and I don't think he quite understands.
[23:21:28] <JT-Shop> I have the hardware and don't understand
[23:21:51] <ssi> andypugh: sure it's your lathe and not just flex in the screw?
[23:21:55] <elmo40> andypugh: fast enough? you using ceramics ?
[23:22:02] <andypugh> Yes, CBN
[23:22:27] <andypugh> You need to run at about 120m/min with steel and CBN.
[23:22:52] <elmo40> what is that, 120m/min. surface speed?
[23:22:56] <andypugh> Yes
[23:23:43] <ssi> i OD ground my ballscrew ends with a spindex on my surface grinder
[23:23:47] <ssi> and then threaded after grinding
[23:24:13] <elmo40> that is 400feet/min?
[23:24:25] <andypugh> Hard-turning can give a better finish than grinding.
[23:24:46] <elmo40> I don't have ceramics (plus the edge is flame cut, would eat those inserts)
[23:26:00] <elmo40> man, I wish I had these tools! makes it look like butter! http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=ybROpiPXrnQ
[23:26:05] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5611905035055922322 The lower one is the ballscrew from the video (after a second attempt with tiny cut)
[23:26:12] <elmo40> cbn... boss doesn't buy :(
[23:26:34] <elmo40> why did you bust the ballscrew?
[23:28:08] <ssi> I'd rather hardturn but I don't have the tools
[23:28:37] <andypugh> ssi: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNGA-433-CBN-2-Tipped-Insert-Grade-CBN10-SECO-1pc-/320796168352
[23:29:05] <andypugh> elmo40: I don't understand the question?
[23:30:52] <elmo40> since I don't have cbn I use inserts by the bucket!
[23:35:20] <JT-Shop> we seem to be getting a lot of folks switching from macktree to EMC2...
[23:36:50] <skunkKandT> yay!
[23:37:13] * skunkKandT actually never tried it... tubocnc ->emc1 ->emc2
[23:37:29] <skunkKandT> I think I tried emc1 for all of 3 seconds.
[23:37:53] <JT-Shop> I tried a bdi but failed to get it installed :/
[23:38:16] <skunkKandT> it took 3 tries to find a video card it liked
[23:39:06] <skunkKandT> I had to build emc2 on the bdi install initally... Then a few months later - cradek (I think) got the ubuntu script working
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[23:39:37] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: i have a buddy with a mach3 machine that wants me to help him convert it to emc
[23:39:57] <Danimal_garage> some sort of servo knee mill
[23:40:10] * JT-Shop sends Dan a crow bar and a hammer to start with
[23:40:29] <skunkKandT> make sure you say snidly.... 'step servos... Eww' ;)
[23:40:30] <Danimal_garage> thanks, but i have those from my last install
[23:40:38] <JT-Shop> lol
[23:41:00] <JT-Shop> should be an easy convert
[23:41:05] <Danimal_garage> skunkKandT: he's just amazed i was able to get the toolchanger working
[23:41:21] <Danimal_garage> yea, i gave him a list of mesa stuff to order
[23:41:43] <Danimal_garage> very basic machine
[23:41:56] <Danimal_garage> no buttons or spindle control
[23:42:00] <Danimal_garage> or tool changer
[23:42:05] <Danimal_garage> just e-stop
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[23:43:07] <Danimal_garage> so i shouldnt have to bug you guys about it
[23:43:20] <Danimal_garage> i'll savbe that for touchy on my new mill lol
[23:43:25] <Danimal_garage> save*
[23:44:01] <skunkKandT> heh
[23:44:35] <Danimal_garage> i havent even looked into touchy yet
[23:44:44] <Danimal_garage> i just got the monitor
[23:44:49] <skunkKandT> All I have done is look at it...
[23:44:59] <Danimal_garage> the manufacturer does have a driver for ubuntu at least
[23:45:44] <JT-Shop> name brand monitor?
[23:46:00] <Danimal_garage> elo
[23:46:04] <Danimal_garage> or something
[23:46:09] <Danimal_garage> looks decent
[23:46:09] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,18/id,14877/lang,english/
[23:47:03] * JT-Shop goes to set up the mill for a few holes
[23:47:22] <Danimal_garage> i think i have trhe one cradek mentioned in that post
[23:48:00] <Danimal_garage> mine's a rear pannel mount though
[23:48:07] <Danimal_garage> which is what i wanted
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[23:51:59] <andypugh> JT-Shop: You failed to install a "Brain Dead Install", I don't like to have to say what that means.
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[23:53:38] <skunkKandT> snicker
[23:54:18] <Danimal_garage> don't encourange him
[23:54:23] <Danimal_garage> :)
[23:56:03] <Tom_itx> Danimal_garage how's the mill coming?
[23:58:42] <Danimal_garage> havent touched it other than pulling the old controller out
[23:59:41] <Tom_itx> did you call antek about your supply? i didn't see any toroids that big on their site