#emc | Logs for 2011-11-15

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[00:15:40] <elmo40> FinboySlick: that's a sweet truck!
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[00:21:01] <FinboySlick> elmo40: Yup, figured I'd share.
[00:21:29] <elmo40> id love to put one of them together
[00:21:44] <elmo40> been looking at this old VW Van, too ;)
[00:21:47] <FinboySlick> elmo40: Did you peek at the engine? It's quite a neat thing.
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[00:22:10] <elmo40> individual heads
[00:22:25] <FinboySlick> supercharged 3cyl diesel.
[00:23:24] <elmo40> I bet if you turned new pistons for it and bored it out a lil' you could increase the efficiency by 20%
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[00:24:38] <FinboySlick> elmo40: Yeah. Speaking of VW van... You ever seen the old awd mitsubishi minivans? I'm trying to remember the name.
[00:25:59] <FinboySlick> delica, that's what they're called.
[00:26:21] <FinboySlick> They're like a an all terrain VW van, would be my pick.
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[00:37:58] <elmo40> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Delica
[00:38:23] <elmo40> Also called Chrysler L300 Express (AU)
[00:38:23] <elmo40> Ford Husky (ZA)
[00:38:24] <elmo40> Mitsubishi Colt Solar (RI)
[00:38:24] <elmo40> Mitsubishi L300
[00:38:24] <elmo40> Mitsubishi L300 Express (AU)
[00:38:24] <elmo40> Hyundai Porter
[00:38:24] <elmo40> Mahindra Voyager (IN)
[00:38:34] <elmo40> many names ;)
[00:40:00] <syyl> ah
[00:40:18] <syyl> such a l300 stands on the parking lot at work
[00:40:25] <syyl> i ike the look of it :D
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[00:47:41] <FinboySlick> Well, they're not all cute. I was really thinking of the third generation StarWagon.
[00:53:49] <skunkworks> I think there is one of those in every foreign movie...
[00:59:57] <danimal_laptop> i call those things birth control
[01:00:00] <danimal_laptop> :)
[01:00:59] <syyl> i just read bird control Oo
[01:01:53] <FinboySlick> danimal_laptop: Nonsense, I'd totally do a hot chick who has one.
[01:02:20] <danimal_laptop> ha
[01:02:41] <danimal_laptop> i think i can put one of those inside my van
[01:04:36] <FinboySlick> http://www.acrosser.com/products/AR-ES0892_detail_id_413.html <--- These are supposed to have awesome jitter performance. Anyone else tried 'em? I'm seriously considering a purchase.
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[01:24:16] <FinboySlick> Or would I be better off with so-so jitter and a mesa card?
[01:25:24] <jdhNC> isn't everything just better with a mesa card
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[01:25:58] <jdhNC> unless you got all the parts and machine for free... the added cost of the new cheap PCI card is way lost in the noise.
[01:26:26] <FinboySlick> jdhNC: The mesa card handles stepgen?
[01:26:38] <FinboySlick> (assume a dummy parallel port/stepper machine here)
[01:26:59] <jdhNC> yes
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[01:28:05] <FinboySlick> What are the requirements on the computer in such a case?
[01:28:33] <jdhNC> no clue, other than 'runs emc2' and has a free pci slot
[01:29:00] <FinboySlick> Well, it probably needs to still be RTAI capable, no?
[01:29:10] <jdhNC> yes
[01:29:17] <jdhNC> that is the 'runs emc2' part
[01:29:29] <FinboySlick> So timing/jitter likely matters on some other level
[01:29:49] <jdhNC> I assume that would depend on what you are asking it to do.
[01:30:33] <jdhNC> I'm not suggesting a cheap, high-latency pc, just that adding the mesa card eliminates the stepgen concerns and overall, it is dirt cheap
[01:30:53] <FinboySlick> OK.
[01:32:00] <jdhNC> Firmware modules are provided for hardware step generation, quadrature encoder counting, PWM generation, digital I/O, Smart Serial remote I/O, BISS, SSI, SPI, UART interfaces and more
[01:32:54] <jdhNC> for $89, and gets you 34 IO's
[01:33:29] <FinboySlick> Yeah, was reading that.
[01:36:50] <jdhNC> my only experience is my gantry router running off a parallel port though :) I do own a 7i43 and 5i23? though
[01:41:26] <FinboySlick> I need to start getting off my butt and get that little workshop done. Swimming in ideas but no practice.
[01:47:10] <jdhNC> you should start by paypal'ing me us$100.
[01:47:55] <FinboySlick> jdhNC: Hah... Okay, but you build the workbench.
[01:48:04] <FinboySlick> ... to spec.
[01:48:10] <jdhNC> no problem
[01:48:28] <jdhNC> I'm sure it would look lovely in my garage.
[01:48:42] <FinboySlick> There are GPS coordinates in the spec.
[02:08:10] <danimal_laptop> yay, finally got air hooked up again
[02:09:35] <danimal_laptop> compressor rolls around fairly well on the casters
[02:09:56] <danimal_laptop> i got enough cord and hose to get it out of the way when i need to
[02:11:36] <Tom_itx> why do you need a compressor on wheels?
[02:11:44] <Tom_itx> doesn't it shake alot more?
[02:18:13] <danimal_laptop> so i can move it out of my way when i need to get behind the machine
[02:18:42] <danimal_laptop> it weighs at least 500-600lbs, it's not gunna shake
[02:18:53] <danimal_laptop> it's actually quieter now
[02:19:55] <Tom_itx> 80 gal?
[02:19:58] <danimal_laptop> yea
[02:20:06] <Tom_itx> i'd be hesitant to put mine on wheels
[02:20:09] <Tom_itx> vertical
[02:20:13] <danimal_laptop> yes
[02:20:17] <Tom_itx> same
[02:20:32] <danimal_laptop> it doesnt seem too unstable
[02:20:39] <danimal_laptop> what brand?
[02:20:45] <Tom_itx> sanborn
[02:20:47] <Tom_itx> i think
[02:20:53] <danimal_laptop> ah
[02:20:59] <danimal_laptop> mine's a curtis
[02:21:17] <Tom_itx> i left it on the pallet even, so i could put a drain valve / hose out the bottom
[02:21:30] <danimal_laptop> the legs are spread apart enough i think
[02:21:30] <Tom_itx> makes it easy to keep cleaned out
[02:21:37] <danimal_laptop> cool
[02:21:58] <Tom_itx> iirc i got it at sams before they went with the cheapo ones
[02:21:58] <danimal_laptop> mine had an electric valve for draining, however i need to hook it back up
[02:22:16] <danimal_laptop> i got mine on craigslist
[02:22:27] <danimal_laptop> it's a 3cyl 2 stage
[02:22:36] <danimal_laptop> belt driven
[02:22:42] <Tom_itx> 2 stage 2 cyl
[02:22:44] <Tom_itx> belt
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[02:23:00] <Tom_itx> ~ 175lb
[02:23:26] <Tom_itx> my bud had a screw compressor at his shop
[02:23:29] <danimal_laptop> nice
[02:23:32] <Tom_itx> in a room by itself
[02:23:38] <danimal_laptop> yea those are sweet
[02:23:42] <Tom_itx> no tank
[02:24:24] <danimal_laptop> ah, ours had tanks where i worked
[02:24:33] <Tom_itx> at least i don't think it did
[02:24:37] <Tom_itx> it was fully enclosed
[02:25:05] <danimal_laptop> the tanks were pretty big
[02:25:22] <danimal_laptop> at least twice the size of mine
[02:25:22] <Tom_itx> this was as big as a small cnc
[02:25:50] <danimal_laptop> but they were feeding a 300 employee machine shop
[02:26:12] <Tom_itx> iirc he had maybe a dozen or so
[02:26:51] <danimal_laptop> ugh i gotta finish getting my shop back together. the mill's coming this week so i gotta get ready
[02:27:05] <Tom_itx> is this one for a retrofit?
[02:27:13] <danimal_laptop> thats the plan
[02:27:20] <danimal_laptop> is has a working control on it though
[02:27:35] <danimal_laptop> i'm still planing on emcing it though
[02:28:10] <danimal_laptop> it has the same toolchanger as my other mill so it should be a fairly easy conversion since i already have the ladder program
[02:29:45] <danimal_laptop> gotta run, adios!
[02:29:47] <Tom_itx> it makes it better to have similar cnc's
[02:30:13] <danimal_laptop> yea they're different brands, but almost the same.
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[02:51:48] <Jymmm> Pick n Pluck... sounds like a chicken restraunt
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[03:02:43] <Jymmm> Ok, who are the old farts in here?
[03:03:01] * Tom_itx looks at Jymmm in suspicion
[03:03:09] <Jymmm> Not I
[03:03:37] <Tom_itx> you mean 'seasoned experienced machinists'?
[03:04:06] <Jymmm> Nope, I mean old farts with AARP memberships or the like
[03:04:29] <Jymmm> Old fart discounts... http://codepad.org/sTtmjERJ
[03:05:50] <Jymmm> 20% discount at kmart could come in handy.
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[03:10:20] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i think all the ole pharts went to bed
[03:10:36] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: You're still here =)
[03:10:44] <Tom_itx> as are you
[03:10:53] <Jymmm> But I ain't old like you
[03:11:04] <Tom_itx> i'm not old
[03:11:22] <Jymmm> Ha!
[03:11:31] <Tom_itx> my daddy is old
[03:11:56] <Jymmm> heh
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[03:15:15] <emcrules_d510> wheres the instructions on the wikki to run emc from dev? it's been a while!!
[03:16:50] <danimal_laptop> i'm 30 and feel pretty old, and i just farted
[03:17:10] <danimal_laptop> does that count?
[03:18:24] <A2Sheds> get off my lawn!
[03:18:45] <danimal_laptop> haha i do yell that on occasion
[03:18:56] <danimal_laptop> the joys of living near a school....
[03:20:06] <danimal_laptop> i need motion sensored high pressure sprinklers
[03:20:54] <Tom_itx> i considered that myself
[03:21:25] <danimal_laptop> if i had grass instead of gravel i would
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[03:24:16] <elmo40> FinboySlick: that link you posted is for something with no parports. just serial.
[03:26:50] <FinboySlick> elmo40: I'd put a mesa card in it.
[03:27:07] <elmo40> whybother
[03:29:44] <FinboySlick> elmo40: Well, it's not that much more expensive than a good PCI parallel card.
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[03:33:26] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I'm just about to buy that acrosser system... Is there anything you can think of that I should be aware of prior? What CPU I should get, etc... ?
[03:34:30] <elmo40> something with an Atom D510
[03:35:07] <A2Sheds> yeah. yeah. what he said ^
[03:35:26] <emcrules_d510> ditto^
[03:35:38] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: how much is that system??
[03:36:26] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: A fair bit more than a D512, but if it gives me rock-solid performance with minimal tweaking, I don't mind the extra cash.
[03:36:32] <FinboySlick> I mean D510
[03:36:46] <A2Sheds> http://global.acrosser.com/products_search.html?keyword=AR-ES0892 is the new link
[03:37:15] <A2Sheds> SWPadnos mentioned it to me
[03:37:44] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Yeah I'm on there. Was wondering if you remembered any specific tweaks, what kernel, etc. Oh, well, I guess I better ask him then ;)
[03:38:33] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: are you planning on stepping @1MHz or more?
[03:38:47] <FinboySlick> if I can, I will!
[03:39:05] <FinboySlick> And then I'll realize it's useless and I won't!
[03:40:14] <A2Sheds> sorry have to run 'Murder She Wrote' is back on..... now where did i leave my teeth?
[03:40:49] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I liked the previous old-act better, it sounded more like Clint Eastwood.
[03:41:04] <emcrules_d510> for the 2.5 branch do you use "track v2.4_branch" or sub 2.5 for 2.4
[03:42:48] <A2Sheds> lots of D510 boards have low latency jitter right out of the box
[03:43:53] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: give up on the ALix or was it just too slow?
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[03:44:32] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Bit of both. Can't get it to work and the further I read, the more I see that it relies on SMI for just about everything.
[03:44:51] <FinboySlick> Some RTAI people claim good results but details are way too scarce.
[03:46:21] <FinboySlick> I could spend a couple more months on it but then I wouldn't be gaining any milling experience in the meantime.
[03:47:15] <FinboySlick> any specific D510 boards you guys would suggest?
[03:47:32] <Tom_itx> are the 510's still available?
[03:47:51] <Tom_itx> they may be back in stock but newegg was out when i checked
[03:48:07] <FinboySlick> That's okay, I have a few sources, I just want to avoid more guesswork.
[03:48:20] <Tom_itx> i've got a D525
[03:49:11] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: Did you have to disable a core?
[03:49:27] <Tom_itx> i just loaded the live cd
[03:49:44] <FinboySlick> What's your max jitter?
[03:49:48] <Tom_itx> wasn't savvy enough to know the difference at the time
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[03:51:15] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[03:51:19] <Tom_itx> that's what i got
[03:51:41] <Tom_itx> i'd have to run it again. i don't recall what it was off hand
[03:52:06] <FinboySlick> I can still find D510 intel boards in 10-packs (800$/lot)
[03:52:32] <Tom_itx> they have d510's just not the ones for $75
[03:52:48] <A2Sheds> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500048 $109 Zotac
[03:53:17] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: That's pretty fancy.
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[03:53:26] <Tom_itx> i don't think it was over 10k
[03:53:52] <danimal_laptop> the d510 should only be about $80 max
[03:53:59] <danimal_laptop> i get them locally for that price
[03:54:22] <A2Sheds> we usually go to Microcenter with a Live CD and walk down the counter installing it on every machine until we find a winner
[03:54:33] <FinboySlick> I could also get a supermicro superserver if I wanted top-quality hardware, but I get the feeling that thing would be full of management interrupts and what not.
[03:55:00] <Tom_itx> base is 13538 servo 7120 so far
[03:55:16] <A2Sheds> the we learned we could just run the latency test from the live CD :)
[03:55:34] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I covet your list of winners.
[03:55:56] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: That'd be a downgrade from what I already have.
[03:56:23] <FinboySlick> My issue with this one is that it's very big and cumbersome.
[03:57:21] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: are you going to run steppers?
[03:57:42] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: For the foreseeable future, yes.
[03:58:19] <FinboySlick> As fast as possible too because I'm stuck with a spindle that can only do shallow passes.
[03:59:05] <A2Sheds> http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Desktop-D510MO-integrated-processor/dp/B003374OWW $86.50
[03:59:45] <A2Sheds> http://www.macconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=10884524&cm_mmc=Base-_-10884524-_-New-_-WN3&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=10884524 $59.00
[04:00:13] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Hehe, I'm not very price conscious. More availability and sure-that-it-works conscious.
[04:00:29] <A2Sheds> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5984572&SRCCODE=GOOGLEBASE&cm_mmc_o=VRqCjC7BBTkwCjCECjCE
[04:00:38] <FinboySlick> Actually....
[04:00:49] <FinboySlick> I think I *do* have a D510 board somewhere.
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[04:01:05] <FinboySlick> With 5 gigabit LAN :P
[04:01:51] <A2Sheds> 5 x 1GBLan or 1x 5GBLan ? :p
[04:02:16] <FinboySlick> 5x 1Gb, obviously. But on an atom board, that's a lot of LAN :)
[04:03:01] <A2Sheds> http://www.ascendtech.us/itemdesc.asp?ic=MB4FOXIATOMD51S $60
[04:03:59] * FinboySlick wishes they came with DVI but he won't complain.
[04:04:57] <FinboySlick> Should I assume that anything with a D510 will have pretty much the same results?
[04:06:00] <A2Sheds> IIRC wasn't that an intel requirement for ATOM boards? no DVI, no ATX size boards for cheap etc etc
[04:06:49] <FinboySlick> Possible.
[04:07:05] <A2Sheds> part of it seems to be the lucky BIOS combination as well for the real low jitter boards
[04:07:46] <FinboySlick> How low are we talking about anyway?
[04:07:55] <A2Sheds> Intel didn't want Atom competing with their other cpu/chipsets
[04:08:14] <A2Sheds> no Atom laptops either, just netbooks
[04:08:14] <FinboySlick> I'm < 6k currently with the clunky box.
[04:08:27] <A2Sheds> why change then?
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[04:08:47] <FinboySlick> Every couple days, I get a 100k spike :P
[04:09:18] <A2Sheds> might just be noise
[04:09:59] <FinboySlick> It's big, fragile, generates a ton of heat and all nVidia.
[04:10:16] <A2Sheds> I've seen similar and never had problems on a machine
[04:10:42] <A2Sheds> I'd run it over with a tractor then
[04:10:58] <A2Sheds> just for the 'n' word
[04:12:30] <FinboySlick> This looks nice: http://www.jetway.com.tw/jw/ipcboard_view.asp?productid=749&proname=NF33-270-LF
[04:13:17] <FinboySlick> Might be tricky pci-wise though :P
[04:13:42] <A2Sheds> we should be asking all the motherboard review sites to include the latency jitter test results
[04:15:13] <FinboySlick> That little thing is so cute though... Mesa needs to start making mini-PCI hardware!
[04:22:13] <A2Sheds> http://www.dcw-sales.com/products.php?product=Supermicro-X7SPA%252dHF%252dO-Atom-Dual%252dCore-D510{47}-Intel-945GC{47}-RAID{47}-V%262GbE{47}-Mini%252dITX-Motherboard%2C-Retail $241.56
[04:23:11] <FinboySlick> It's the 945GCLF that seems to be key here, hmm?
[04:25:50] <A2Sheds> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM6209062402P?sid=IDx20101019x00001a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=SPM6209062402 seems to be the most expensive place to buy one $356
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[04:39:03] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I have one of those laying around: http://www.jetway.com.tw/jw/ipcboard_view.asp?productid=779&proname=NC9C-455-LF
[04:39:25] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I'll try to run a test tomorrow.
[04:48:08] <A2Sheds> AMD Phenom II X4 3.4 + gigabyte 785G jitter 4500
[04:48:24] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Woah!
[04:50:53] <A2Sheds> factory BIOS
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[04:51:30] <danimal_laptop> yawn
[04:51:33] <danimal_laptop> i'm tired
[04:51:35] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Wouldn't this have a dreadful ATI card though?
[04:52:30] <A2Sheds> this one has a HD5830
[04:52:59] <FinboySlick> Ubunti gets along with it?
[04:53:59] <A2Sheds> not sure what Ubuntu uses for the driver, I didn't check
[04:54:55] <A2Sheds> I don't run unbuntu on anything anymore except for the EMC2 liveCD to test systems
[04:57:07] <A2Sheds> probably mesa and not catalyst
[04:57:27] <FinboySlick> Still worth keeping in mind.
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[05:29:38] <FinboySlick> Time to call it a night. Thanks a bunch A2Sheds and everyone else for the input.
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[07:48:31] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[08:15:52] <Quack> http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/bfs/2702458196.html
[08:16:29] <Quack> lemme know what ya'll think
[08:23:33] <archivist> have you collected it yet :)
[08:31:38] <Quack> no not yet
[08:31:47] <Quack> i am wondering if i should go check it out
[08:31:56] <Quack> i'm worried it might be a rusty piece of junk at $800
[08:32:40] <archivist> that is about the right price for a well worn one probably
[08:33:40] <archivist> but a worn one of those could out perform a chinese heap
[08:36:21] <Quack> HAHA
[08:36:30] <Quack> i just don't know what to look for
[08:36:33] <Quack> i don't know how to diagnose it
[08:36:39] <Quack> i'm not a bridgeport doctor
[08:37:29] <archivist> play and backlash, and any non working function
[08:38:53] <archivist> and listen to it under power, nice whine from the motor or grinding noises, you could look around local machine shops to listen to a runner
[08:39:05] <Quack> yeah i was thinkin about that
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[09:16:45] <wim2> anyone care to help me figure out the likely control mode of a erm, thingy ?
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[09:19:43] <robin_sz> out of interest, roller bearings .. is the load it will take when sationary less than the load it will take when rotating
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[11:13:25] <elmo40> I believe so.
[11:13:35] <elmo40> depending on speed, of course
[11:15:53] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cNUTU6uNNg&feature=feedrec_grec_index hmm, the milling head slides in and out insted of the table, how is the regidity in that compared to having the table slide? .. should be about the same right? :)
[11:16:55] <elmo40> I would rather have a fixed bed then moving bed.
[11:17:32] <elmo40> you can have (practically) unlimited part weight that way since the bed could be a solid piece of iron.
[11:18:50] <elmo40> the only problem I have with Mazak is the weak spindles.
[11:19:01] <elmo40> sure, it does 18,000RPM but it is only 20Hp!
[11:19:25] <elmo40> can't dig 0.250" with a 4" facemill in Al, it dies and trips the overload
[11:20:04] <mrsun> "only" 20hp ... =)
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[11:20:50] <mrsun> my micromill has 1hp spindle motor =)
[11:21:03] <elmo40> that machine is slow... the DMG would kick its ass ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WE-UQX050Y
[11:21:20] <elmo40> not the best vid for speed, but excellent machine none the less
[11:21:58] <mrsun> hmm yeah like you say with a fixed bed, i guess things would slide alot easier and more accurate every time
[11:22:02] <elmo40> mrsun: when you have a solid billet of Al that gets milled down to 0.060" wall thickness you need HP and a large face mill. 20 isn't enough
[11:22:08] <mrsun> as a bed with 1kg load compared to 50kg load would be a pita to move =)
[11:22:43] <archivist> table does move on that mill
[11:22:55] <elmo40> when doing 'aerospace' parts they are light, no need to worry. but the stuff I do now everything needs a crane to move it on the machine ;)
[11:23:02] <mrsun> on the one that i showed the table moves along the X
[11:23:33] <mrsun> gonna go out and see if father needs some help =9
[11:23:41] <archivist> but frame and slides give rigidity not which part moves
[11:23:44] <mrsun> got some designs for my gingery mill in my head now to thin off =)
[11:24:14] <elmo40> keep the bed still. move the column.
[11:24:37] <elmo40> plus, if you have an oversized part you can stick it out the one edge and not worry about it moving into anything
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[12:33:15] <syyl_> can emc be set to mover after each toolchange to a tool touchoff switch to determine the leght?
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[12:40:00] <emcrules_mobile> syyl: you could make a macro call that you pass the tool # and changes the tool then probes the length of the tool
[12:42:48] <syyl_> ok, then its possible
[12:42:53] <syyl_> i didnt need to know more ;)
[12:47:55] <jthornton> syyl_: a manual tool change or a tool changer?
[12:48:03] <syyl_> manual
[12:48:28] <syyl_> problem is the morse taper, as it has no defined z-position after tool change
[12:49:15] <kp> Hi all. Is there a hal pin I can use to tune the acceleration values while emc is running?
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[12:57:00] <jthornton> kp: no
[12:59:23] <jthornton> syyl_: you could write a subroutine and call that after a tool change
[12:59:47] <syyl_> so it could handled with gcode only?
[13:00:41] <jthornton> is this for different tools in one file?
[13:00:55] <syyl_> jep
[13:01:44] <kp> jthornton: Thanks. You know why?
[13:05:52] <jthornton> syyl_: sure after changing the tool then move to the touch off part and do a probe move then store the offset then move to a safe position then start cutting
[13:06:16] <syyl_> fine
[13:06:30] <syyl_> then, all i need is a touchoff probe for tool lenght
[13:06:40] <jthornton> yea
[13:06:54] <syyl_> thank you :)
[13:07:44] <jthornton> I do it on my plasma but use a G92 to find the material top (floating head with probe switch)
[13:07:54] <jthornton> kp: nope
[13:08:42] <kp> thanks
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[13:34:11] <Spida> eletrical touchoff is the only method used for finding tool lengths?
[13:34:47] <Spida> I guess optical and mechanical both give less exact results...?
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[13:35:50] <jthornton> syyl_: you don't really gain anything but complexity by having manual tool changes in a file, the simple thing is to break the files up for each tool...
[13:36:04] <syyl_> thats what i do right now
[13:36:07] <syyl_> hmm
[13:36:16] <syyl_> maybe you are right ;)
[13:36:58] <jthornton> do you use the dowel on the material top to set your Z now?
[13:37:21] <syyl_> right now i touch of with the tool
[13:37:28] <syyl_> and paint
[13:37:40] <syyl_> when the cutter scratches the paint
[13:37:42] <syyl_> zero
[13:37:52] <syyl_> works better then 1/100mm
[13:38:29] <jthornton> try using a dowel pin, set the tool lower than the height of the pin and slowly move up till the dowel just passes under
[13:38:45] <jthornton> then set your offset to the diameter of the dowel pin
[13:38:48] <syyl_> ah
[13:38:55] <jthornton> I find that method fast and accurate
[13:38:58] <syyl_> yeah, i know that with a gauge block
[13:39:06] <syyl_> *method
[13:39:20] <jthornton> thanks to cradek for telling me about that
[13:39:40] <syyl_> the use of a dowel pin is a good idea
[13:42:28] <Valen> rage @ebay
[13:42:41] <Valen> offering to engrave something is a circumvention of their fees
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[13:45:43] <skunkworks> #emc-devel
[13:45:47] <skunkworks> heh
[13:46:12] <skunkworks> I blame the keyboard
[13:51:20] <Spida> are there any optical methods for automatic tool length measurement?
[13:51:35] <syyl_> laser?
[13:51:53] <syyl_> the big manufacturers do that
[13:52:00] <Valen> camera
[13:52:02] <jdhNC> probe a through-beam?
[13:52:03] <Valen> aspheric lense
[13:52:32] <Spida> wouldn't that need a VERY narrow beam?
[13:53:15] <Spida> for a larger beam one would need to define a trheshold for the amount of light that is reflected, and that would depend on the tool shape...
[13:53:51] <jdhNC> as long as it was consistent for each tool?
[13:54:01] <Spida> also, any oil drop or dust hanging on the tool would influence that measurement
[13:54:05] <jdhNC> guess it could be orientation specific
[13:54:52] <Spida> but for home use, there is nothing better than electrical touch off?
[13:55:22] <jdhNC> nothingh cheaper
[13:55:50] <jdhNC> I have an alligator clip I put on the tool
[13:56:11] <Spida> I was thinking of making that work with an automatic tool changer later
[13:57:07] <Spida> so alligatoring the tool is not a solution *g*
[13:58:10] <syyl_> i would build a mechanic touch off
[13:58:17] <syyl_> with 6 balls/3 pins
[13:58:57] <syyl_> electromechanic...
[13:59:01] <jdhNC> a spindle mounted probe?
[13:59:11] <jdhNC> or a plate you hit with your tool?
[13:59:12] <syyl_> naa, for tool lenght measurement
[13:59:35] <syyl_> a tool mounted renishaw probe with a plate instead of a ball-tip
[14:00:25] <syyl_> like this, but with a flat tip:
[14:00:26] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/syylishaw1.jpg
[14:02:19] <skunkworks> what happens if there is a little crap on the end of your tool?
[14:02:55] <syyl_> blow it away :D
[14:03:25] <syyl_> the machine would need a airnozzle aiming for the tooltip
[14:03:47] <syyl_> our machines at work do so
[14:04:05] <syyl_> no problems with chips
[14:04:19] <syyl_> only if somethings stuck to the tip, like a piece of doublesided tape
[14:05:24] <jdhNC> http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/14/via-offers-89-processor-and-motherboard-combo-for-custom-htpcs/
[14:05:32] <jdhNC> would emc2 run on that?
[14:07:11] <Spida> syyl_: can you explain that image please?
[14:07:20] <syyl_> hmm
[14:07:29] <syyl_> i try
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[14:08:02] <syyl_> the 6 balls are conncected in series
[14:08:12] <syyl_> and the circuit is cloed by the 3 pins
[14:08:51] <syyl_> if the probe (and with it the 3 pins) is moved in any direction
[14:08:51] <Spida> ah, so the green disc is isolated and the balls are held in palce by something not visible in the picture?
[14:09:03] <syyl_> the circuit is opened
[14:09:16] <syyl_> wait, i have a picture of the real deal :D
[14:09:27] <Spida> ah
[14:09:33] <Spida> I understand
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[14:09:41] <Valen> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/190601701086 what I'm selling btw
[14:09:57] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-10-02_18-26-37_176.jpg
[14:10:16] <syyl_> i used a piece of circuit board and soldered 6 bearing balls to it
[14:10:23] <Valen> nice
[14:10:34] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-10-02_18-29-04_533.jpg
[14:10:34] <Valen> we are using gold balls from earrings in ours
[14:10:51] <syyl_> and thats, how the center piece with the pins fits in
[14:11:10] <jdhNC> valen: are you sure about that URL?
[14:11:20] <Valen> works for me?
[14:11:37] <Valen> its a new listing they may be blocking it or something
[14:11:41] <Valen> should be a wooden torch
[14:11:46] <Spida> works for me
[14:11:47] <jdhNC> that's it.
[14:12:00] <Valen> CnCed wood n all
[14:12:05] <syyl_> did that help, Spida? :D
[14:12:08] <jdhNC> I was thinking probe for some reason.
[14:12:22] <Valen> the line i had was "for $15 we can engrave it, let us know and we'll make a new auction for you"
[14:12:26] <Spida> syyl_: yes
[14:12:33] <Valen> and thats evading their fees
[14:12:43] <Valen> making another auction is evading fees
[14:13:08] <Valen> asshats
[14:13:11] <jdhNC> how do you fit the engraving on the curve?
[14:13:17] <Valen> CnC
[14:13:30] <Valen> we know the curve of the torch so we engrave to match
[14:13:41] <Valen> you can see its kinda deep too
[14:13:42] <jdhNC> via CAM or by hand?
[14:13:49] <Valen> CAM
[14:13:53] <Valen> (CnC)
[14:14:05] <Valen> whats the bet they kill it again for having our website in the pictures
[14:14:22] <jdhNC> wouldn't surprise me
[14:14:48] <jdhNC> a human would have to do it though
[14:15:10] <Valen> the website is for a computer company (for now) ;->
[14:16:21] <Valen> should i airbrush it out you think?
[14:16:26] <Valen> perhaps just the .com part
[14:16:30] <jdhNC> I wouldn't
[14:16:58] <Valen> sooo grumpy
[14:17:20] <Valen> you want a punch in the face accuse an Australian of impropriety
[14:18:00] <Valen> that aside, any critiques on the listing?
[14:19:02] <jdhNC> nope... you could add another auction that includes engraving in the price.
[14:19:14] <syyl_> looks pretty professional
[14:19:21] <Valen> i doubt many people would take it is the thing
[14:20:34] <Valen> (the engraving)
[14:20:39] <Valen> technically its cool though lol
[14:20:49] <jdhNC> you typo'ed 'halves' on the last line.
[14:21:21] <jdhNC> how's that for picky, one letter out of the whole thing!
[14:21:28] <Valen> ffs, the 4 words i didn't retype from dads origional spiel
[14:23:49] <Valen> price seem fair?
[14:24:22] <syyl_> for a handmade piece? sure
[14:24:23] <jdhNC> Astronomical Unit (US$ 38.50) = 5.759523 1012 m U.S. Dollars
[14:24:35] <jdhNC> google didn't do a great job guessing that one
[14:24:41] <Valen> not quite
[14:24:42] <syyl_> hr
[14:24:49] <Valen> though its interesting it put a price on a distance
[14:24:55] <Valen> pretty cheap really
[14:25:13] <Valen> $US and $AU are ~ 1:1 at the moment
[14:25:50] <syyl_> maybe you should also do a wooden usb stick
[14:26:01] <jdhNC> that might be cool
[14:26:15] <Valen> looked at that, the material cost is pretty high to get a good one so theres not much margin on them
[14:26:20] <syyl_> (and one in stainless steel for the machinists)
[14:26:29] <Valen> IE material cost in these is about $5
[14:26:37] <Valen> decent usb stick is $40
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[14:27:06] <Valen> stainless torch or stainless usb?
[14:27:13] <syyl_> hmm
[14:27:15] <syyl_> both :D
[14:27:20] <Valen> lol
[14:27:21] <Valen> soon
[14:27:27] <Valen> going to do a brass one first
[14:27:32] <Valen> anyway early start tomorrow
[14:27:33] <syyl_> ah, nice
[14:27:45] <Valen> figured it'd sell for a bit more coin
[14:27:54] <Valen> all polished up
[14:28:07] <syyl_> or maybe aged?
[14:28:18] <Valen> i hate aged look stuff
[14:28:23] <Valen> i keep my brass shiny
[14:28:28] <syyl_> hr, ok
[14:28:30] <Valen> i got a medal once that had been aged
[14:28:44] <Valen> took me a few days but i polished it up good ;->
[14:28:58] <syyl_> i like aged and then polished
[14:29:30] <syyl_> with the lower parts still oxidized
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[14:31:30] <piasdom> hello
[14:32:17] <piasdom> i can't get xyz jog to work with glade. it shows in axis by it's disabled
[14:35:29] <piasdom> http://imagebin.org/184175
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[15:29:33] <danimal_laptop> sweet, both chillers are sold (i think)
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[15:46:46] <frysteev> non emc question
[15:46:49] <frysteev> i have a spiral saw that keeps choking on drywall dust
[15:46:58] <frysteev> dispiate that being its primary purpose,
[15:47:03] <frysteev> trying to figure out how to clean it,
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[15:56:08] <skunkworks> heh - I love how people think this is so cool.
[15:56:09] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwrjws9Yprc
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[15:58:16] <cradek> but he's turning the spindle backwards?
[15:59:31] <danimal_laptop> does that mean it's supposed to feed backwards? lol
[16:00:13] <danimal_laptop> actually that's a good question, what happens in g95 when the spindle goes backwards when it's supposed to be going forward
[16:01:15] <danimal_laptop> cradek: i got a touch screen monitor on the way, i'm going to try touchy on the new mill
[16:01:46] <cradek> danimal_laptop: the tool won't move if the spindle is going the wrong way
[16:02:03] <danimal_laptop> wow, you guys thought of everything
[16:03:08] <skunkworks> Heh - I didn't notice that.. ;)
[16:04:00] <pcw_home> So if you just have a A and index EMC would not know...
[16:04:06] <danimal_laptop> yea
[16:06:54] <syyl_> spindle synchron move IS cool :D
[16:06:59] <syyl_> like magic :o
[16:07:03] <danimal_laptop> lol
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[16:07:26] <danimal_laptop> i have yet to try threading on mine
[16:07:32] <danimal_laptop> isnt that sad?
[16:08:04] <syyl_> but you could, whenever you want?
[16:08:10] <syyl_> thats enough :D
[16:08:13] <danimal_laptop> yes
[16:08:16] <danimal_laptop> true
[16:08:40] <danimal_laptop> i just thread on the manual lathe
[16:08:47] <danimal_laptop> i kinda like it :)
[16:08:57] <syyl_> yeah
[16:08:58] <syyl_> me to
[16:09:06] <syyl_> took me some time to get it mastered
[16:09:09] <danimal_laptop> threads are fun
[16:09:12] <syyl_> but now, i like it
[16:09:16] <jdhNC> I've only done it a few times, but it is a very satisfying experience ot have it come out right.
[16:09:35] <danimal_laptop> yea, i learned it in trade school
[16:09:36] <syyl_> maybe i convert my lathe someday to emc...
[16:10:09] <jdhNC> heh... if I had the time, I'd go do the 2 year program at the local CC.
[16:10:48] <danimal_laptop> we used to have a vocational school you could go to for your last 2 years of high school, thats what i did
[16:11:00] <danimal_laptop> they shut that down
[16:11:15] <jdhNC> our county just started doing that a couple of years ago
[16:11:52] <danimal_laptop> they also shut down the state apprenticeship program for toolmaking right after i finished it
[16:12:14] <danimal_laptop> i had to chase someone down for my certificate
[16:12:42] <danimal_laptop> sad
[16:12:55] <danimal_laptop> they're not teaching manufacturing anymore
[16:13:11] <danimal_laptop> i guess the plan is to just buy it from china from now on
[16:15:59] <jdhNC> <- manufacturing
[16:16:31] <jdhNC> $1700 for the 13.5amp one
[16:16:36] <jdhNC> <urk>
[16:16:47] <danimal_laptop> 13.5a what?
[16:16:55] <jdhNC> flashlight
[16:17:02] <danimal_laptop> ha!
[16:17:12] <danimal_laptop> how many lumens?
[16:17:23] <archivist> 1
[16:17:24] <jdhNC> http://www.extreme-exposure.com/?q=node/1015
[16:17:29] <danimal_laptop> better be like 50,000
[16:17:31] <jdhNC> 1 realllly big lumen
[16:17:57] <syyl_> might be enough to set a bird aflame midair ;)
[16:18:09] <jdhNC> can't use it out of water
[16:18:22] <syyl_> burns itself?
[16:19:15] <danimal_laptop> hid? why not led?
[16:19:17] <jdhNC> yeah, the head is delrin also, not great at air cooling
[16:19:32] <danimal_laptop> hid is so 2005
[16:19:43] <syyl_> *laughs*
[16:19:58] <jdhNC> it's still hard to get high lumen LED's in a tight beam (6 degrees or so, in water)
[16:20:53] <danimal_laptop> why not lithium ion batteries?
[16:21:22] <jdhNC> dunno why they don't. Other UW light mfg's use lithium
[16:21:38] <danimal_laptop> i have a 3000 lumen led light with an 8 hour run time
[16:21:52] <jdhNC> I don't like charging high cap lithium batteries
[16:22:02] <danimal_laptop> for my mountain bike
[16:22:25] <jdhNC> http://www.extreme-exposure.com/?q=node/2280
[16:22:34] <jdhNC> that's a 600 lumen, $1700 LED
[16:22:40] <syyl_> lithium batteries have a explosive temper ;)
[16:23:40] <danimal_laptop> ouch
[16:24:03] <jdhNC> I wouldn't trust any mfg's lumen rating though.
[16:24:48] <danimal_laptop> mountain bike lights are usually tested and reviewed by independant labs, so they are fairly correct
[16:25:18] <danimal_laptop> 3000 lumens for $700 sounds better lol
[16:25:36] <jdhNC> perhaps.
[16:26:17] <jdhNC> how about if you are using the light in 270ft deep water, a mile back in a cave?
[16:31:34] <syyl_> could be a problem if it fails there ;)
[16:31:53] <syyl_> dark, cold, to wet to light a candle...
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[16:35:01] <danimal_laptop> waterproof matches?
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[16:41:01] <piasdom> Thanks anyway.
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[16:46:09] <A2Sheds> other than using some unique anodizing processes, how could you decorate the outside of an aluminum enclosure with a tamper evident coating? Tamper evident meaning that it would be difficult to conceal drilling or cutting through the surface to gain access to the interior of the enclosure.
[16:47:10] <jdhNC> cover it in glass
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[16:49:52] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[17:10:28] <danimal_laptop> opps, i listed my second chiller for the second highest bidder on the first chiller i sold with a buy it now price for him, and someone else sniped it lol
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[17:26:05] <Loetmichel> [mad scientist-laughter] "IT LIVES!" [/mad scientist-laughter] -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12448 ;-)
[17:27:06] <Loetmichel> ... that was the SECOND display i bought and changed. I wont drop the phone a third time, to expensive ;-) (40 eur the lcd/touch unit)
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[17:29:07] <jdhNC> quit smoking while you are at it :)
[17:30:13] <Loetmichel> that was just for size comparsion
[17:30:50] <Loetmichel> <- goes on the balcony , having a smoke ;-)
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[17:42:59] <Tom_itx> danimal_laptop you didn't like the way they worked?
[17:43:28] <danimal_laptop> a circulating chiller would be a little more ideal
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[18:06:01] <anonimasu> A2Sheds: ambient light sensor insinde ;)
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[18:09:43] <A2Sheds> miniature Ninjas inside :)
[18:11:32] <anonimasu> if you wireup ambient light sensing you can force them to service it if they break the seal
[18:14:14] <A2Sheds> I understand, I think they need to easily see that it's been tampered with, not sure of all the conditions, only that they are looking to provide a decorative coating to do so that isn't easily reproduced and conceal the tampering
[18:14:53] <A2Sheds> using a thin foil would also work but i think it has to hold up to some handling
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[18:15:35] <A2Sheds> anodize, glass or ceramic coatings would be an example
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[18:28:01] <anonimasu> A2Sheds: what about anodizing the inside?
[18:29:39] <Mjolinor> some questions needing input please
[18:29:54] <Mjolinor> I am about to convert a Denford Orac
[18:30:40] <Mjolinor> I would like ot add manual controls, I can do this wiht a quadrature encoder and feed 2 inputs to the parallel port, will EMC take that and move the saddle / cross slide accordingly?
[18:30:45] <archivist> I did a starturn, I used the original stepper drivers
[18:30:59] <Mjolinor> stepper drivers are toast :)
[18:31:11] <archivist> I repaired one of mine
[18:31:30] <Mjolinor> I actually ahve a few of the stepper driveers but they are horribly unreliable
[18:32:08] <Mjolinor> I dont want to keep any of hte original other than the spindle drive control
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[18:34:29] <Mjolinor> another question is whether or not there is an advantage to bringing in the 0nce per rev pulse fmor the headstock
[18:34:47] <archivist> yes, screw cutting
[18:34:52] <Mjolinor> or should I jsut bring in the slotted disk input from the head stock to get the revs?
[18:34:55] <Mjolinor> ok
[18:34:59] <archivist> both
[18:35:03] <Mjolinor> I thought that would be the case
[18:35:20] <Mjolinor> so I am going to run out of pins methinks :)
[18:35:28] <archivist> add a port
[18:35:47] <Mjolinor> does one normally connect the limit switches togather to use just one input per axis?
[18:36:21] <archivist> I went without the limit switch being wired at the moment
[18:36:30] <Mjolinor> ie limit left or limit right = stop?
[18:36:54] <Mjolinor> that way I need only 2 inputs for the limit switches for X and Y
[18:37:47] <Mjolinor> or maybe there is no reason why they can't all be wired OR so limit X left, X right Y forwrd, Y backwards all = stop
[18:38:27] <Mjolinor> I suppose they are all jsut emergency devices anyway
[18:42:34] <archivist> you can use them for homing too
[18:42:53] <Mjolinor> hmm, are they accurate enough
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[18:43:07] <Mjolinor> lot of unknowns in this thing :)
[18:43:46] <archivist> accuracy is one of the reasons I have not bothered with switches
[18:44:30] <Mjolinor> I was planning on putting an IR beam homing thing on
[18:44:38] <Mjolinor> eventually :)
[18:45:12] <archivist> even ir has problems
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[18:46:24] <archivist> what accuracy are you intending to work to
[18:46:31] <Mjolinor> no idea
[18:46:40] <Mjolinor> :) useful input that :)
[18:46:50] <Mjolinor> I dotn know what hte orac will do
[18:47:17] <Mjolinor> bigger problems at this stage than considering what it is capable of
[18:47:21] <Mjolinor> like how to make it work
[18:47:56] <archivist> making it work is the easy bit
[18:48:23] <Mjolinor> the speed control is unnkown to me at hte moment, there seem to be 2 ways, either 0 - 10 V analogue input which is pretty easy to make form a PWN signal which EMC has but hte inverter also seems to have an RS232 input which is probably better
[18:48:35] <Mjolinor> PWM
[18:48:42] <archivist> use pwm
[18:49:06] <Mjolinor> you reckon
[18:49:11] <Mjolinor> OK
[18:49:30] <archivist> there may well be an opto for the pwm to the spindle board already in there
[18:49:31] <Mjolinor> it seems ot be easier to get accurate speed that way because oyu can use the feedback more easily I htink
[18:49:51] <Mjolinor> I am not sure at all how the RS232 works on the inverter, manufacturers don't give you a lot fo info
[18:50:52] <Mjolinor> originally the Orac electronics put out a 0 - 10 V analogue signal straight to the inverter
[18:51:14] <archivist> pwm and emc is easy, rs232 not really supported at all
[18:51:38] <cradek> might be modbus, which sometimes happens over rs232
[18:51:58] <Mjolinor> PWM is certainly easier to make
[18:52:27] <Mjolinor> just drive a transistor with a capacitor on the output
[18:52:40] <Mjolinor> depends how much current the inverter needs on the analogue input
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[18:53:24] <archivist> probably 4-10k input impedance ish
[18:53:39] <Mjolinor> hmm, thats low
[18:54:52] <archivist> you dont want high impedance inputs near electrically noisy machinery
[18:54:59] <Mjolinor> what frequency PWM does EMC manage?
[18:58:28] <archivist> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/pwmgen.9.html
[18:58:45] <Mjolinor> cheers
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[19:12:08] <andypugh> Anyone got any experience of prototype motor laminations? I have been quoted $11.76 each, which adds up to "lots" once you make a stack.
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[19:17:02] <pcw_home> Andy: that's why you need a EMC controlled laser cutter
[19:18:38] <A2Sheds> anonimasu: Yes, that would surprise an intruder, but I think they want to notice tampering from the outside.
[19:21:21] <andypugh> Yes, a laser cutter would be good, though I also have no idea where to get the material (or I would consider making a press tool)
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[19:23:18] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Forgive my french, but I assume you mean the cores for motor coils?
[19:23:25] <andypugh> Yes
[19:23:51] <FinboySlick> What's the performance difference between (whatever they call it) and steel?
[19:24:11] <andypugh> Quite a lot, by all accounts.
[19:24:38] <andypugh> (Well, assuming you are talking about a solid core v laminations?
[19:24:57] <FinboySlick> I meant between laminated steel and laminated core alloy.
[19:25:37] <FinboySlick> If it's about 2%, I'd suggest making it out of steel until you find a proper source.
[19:26:20] <FinboySlick> How big a motor are you trying to make?
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[19:26:50] <pcw_home> For small motors you could cut out laminations from scrap power transformers
[19:27:13] <FinboySlick> Yeah, I was about to say that, though the lamination thickness might be quite different on power transformers.
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[19:29:22] <Poincare> if i'm right the cores are just 'soft' (laminated) iron
[19:29:48] <pcw_home> Usually silicon steel I think
[19:29:57] <Poincare> silicon steel?
[19:30:11] <pcw_home> Yeah
[19:30:30] <FinboySlick> Poincare: Otherwise, you risk making something more akin to an induction heater (according to wikipedia)
[19:30:55] <Loetmichel> if you get a real big Ring transformer you can even cut LARGE motors from its core
[19:31:09] <pcw_home> Old spark coils used bundles of iron wire
[19:31:19] <Loetmichel> not sillicon steel
[19:31:24] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Orientation matters if it's the good stuff though.
[19:31:35] <Loetmichel> transformers and motors have mu-metal-core
[19:32:02] <Loetmichel> meaning a iron which is very ductile to magnetic field changes
[19:32:34] <Loetmichel> not steel at all
[19:32:40] <pcw_home> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_steel
[19:33:08] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Get samples of LiquidMetal(tm), you might get lucky ;)
[19:33:48] <owhite> Hello, does anyone have any experience with using the arduino HAL component? The question I have is will it require installation of a FTDI driver to handle USB/serial communications.
[19:34:44] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: taht is a "steel"? i dont think so, but if you say so....
[19:34:50] <Loetmichel> i meant permalloy
[19:35:32] <pcw_home> My first job was winding transformers....
[19:35:51] <Loetmichel> but you're right: mu-metal isnt used in cores
[19:35:59] <Loetmichel> just to shield cores ;-)
[19:36:10] <Loetmichel> so the silica steel it is.
[19:36:17] <cradek> owhite: I don't see an arduino hal component. if it's from outside the emc distribution, can you give a link?
[19:36:17] <Loetmichel> i stand corrected ;-)
[19:36:35] <owhite> cradek: http://axis.unpy.net/01198594294
[19:36:37] <andypugh> Wasn't that Jepler's?
[19:36:43] <andypugh> Aha, yes
[19:36:47] <cradek> looks like
[19:37:00] <owhite> the homepage says it was developed by cradek and jepler.
[19:37:07] <Poincare> But why does andypugh wants to make a motor? arent they cheap and available enough?
[19:37:25] <owhite> cradek is sufficiently prolific that he has forgotten how it works :-).
[19:37:26] <andypugh> I want one 4" dia with a 3" through-hole...
[19:37:38] <cradek> PORT = "/dev/ttyUSB0"
[19:37:52] <cradek> I don't know anything about this, but I'm guessing it looks like an ftdi
[19:37:54] <pcw_home> Just thinking that scrap yards the recycle transformers for copper must have tons of laminations (and oil transformer laminations are not glued together)
[19:38:10] <cradek> in ubuntu I'm pretty sure those basic drivers are already installed with no extra work
[19:38:11] <Poincare> andypugh: any specs for length?
[19:38:22] <andypugh> 15mm long
[19:38:26] <Loetmichel> hmmm, i STILL think using a cheap 7" tablet waterproofed would make a great wireless control for big machines
[19:38:30] <owhite> cradek: now that you mention it, I think you're right, I think its part of the ubuntu release.
[19:39:04] <Poincare> so you want imperial dia with metric length???
[19:39:14] <owhite> seems like a neat way to read in temperature and pressure readings that I need.
[19:39:49] <andypugh> Poincare: I am british, I guess things in mm, inches, feet and metres, depending on size :-)
[19:39:50] <jdhNC> ftdi 'just works' in ubuntu
[19:40:08] <owhite> jdhNC: thanks.
[19:40:31] <Mjolinor> cables fathoms furlongs hectares acres, all are good :)
[19:40:43] <jdhNC> micro-fortnights
[19:40:56] <andypugh> magaparsec-barns
[19:41:01] <andypugh> (mega)
[19:41:17] <Mjolinor> not a big call for those distance sin CNC though
[19:41:20] <andypugh> A megaparsec-parn is about a teaspoon full.
[19:41:33] <andypugh> (bran)
[19:41:42] <Loetmichel> andypugh: no yards?
[19:41:52] <Mjolinor> no, the americans took tehm
[19:42:07] <andypugh> Yards == metres, so it depends on what is being measured.
[19:42:38] <Poincare> andypugh: was thinking about role shutter motors and conveyor belt motors but they are more like 500-1000mm long
[19:42:39] <andypugh> steel in m, cloth, lawns yards
[19:43:12] <andypugh> Poincare: And I don't think they have the huge through-hole.
[19:43:35] <owhite> gonna run. thanks people.
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[19:43:42] <andypugh> It's a very specific application. I have the stator from a motorcycle alernator which is about right, but a but big.
[19:43:45] <Poincare> isnt a yard a little short for a meter?
[19:43:56] <Loetmichel> you see me startled. i believed since my navy time yards wer british in origin
[19:44:09] <Loetmichel> Poincare: 910mm iirc
[19:44:36] <andypugh> A yard is fingertip to nose looking forwards. A meter is the same looking to the side :-)
[19:44:45] <Loetmichel> *google* 914mm ... close but no cigar ;-)
[19:45:30] <Poincare> andypugh: specific like a vawt or so?
[19:46:40] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Yes, yards, feet, inches were all british (actuall, English, I think) units. But then the French sold us some new units and we sold the old Imperial ones to the Americans.
[19:46:54] <andypugh> Poincare: vawt?
[19:47:12] <Poincare> vertical axis wind turbine
[19:51:13] <andypugh> Ah, no, this is a CNC application.
[19:52:24] <Loetmichel> Poincare: savonius or darreuis(sp?)
[19:52:41] <Poincare> none yet
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[19:59:03] <FinboySlick> andypugh: I was going to guess a wheelmotor for a lawnmower ;)
[20:00:12] <andypugh> Sorry to be coy, but if it works I will be looking at trying to patent the idea.
[20:05:12] <FinboySlick> But patents are evil...
[20:05:35] <Mjolinor> and expensive
[20:05:38] <andypugh> Yes, true.
[20:05:42] <Mjolinor> and achieve little
[20:06:14] <Mjolinor> first to market wins the race every time
[20:06:39] <FinboySlick> I think SCO thought the 100m was a marathon though.
[20:06:42] <andypugh> But I can't afford to exploit the idea myself.
[20:06:56] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Where's your indistruialist spirit?
[20:07:06] <Mjolinor> :o and you can afford to patent it and defend it?
[20:07:09] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Get lots of concrete and start building a factory in your backyard.
[20:07:17] <andypugh> I don't have one. I have no interest in running a business.
[20:08:19] <andypugh> I don't know what I want to do, I do know that I don't want to publish the idea on the internet before I even know it works, and so preclude the possibility of a patent.
[20:08:52] <Mjolinor> all that a patent give syou is a headache, as soon as you patent it then it is in the public domain, protected (you hope)
[20:09:13] <andypugh> So, what do you suggest?
[20:09:23] <Mjolinor> what happens then is the big boys look at it adn the decision is, how much to buy the patent? how much fine if we dont buy it , can the owner afford to defend it
[20:09:28] <andypugh> Just give up on the idea?
[20:09:38] <Mjolinor> and always the owner cannmot afford to defend so they jsut ignore the patent
[20:09:44] <danimal_laptop> andypugh: i got a kiln for heat treating
[20:09:45] <Mjolinor> no absolutely not
[20:09:59] <Mjolinor> develop the idea then find a company and either sell it or give it for a erpcentage
[20:10:11] <Mjolinor> percentage
[20:10:47] <andypugh> So, that's the same, but without them even having to pay a fine?
[20:10:58] <FinboySlick> andypugh: But leave a record into the public domain somewhere so as to invalidat their patent if they turn evil ;)
[20:11:02] <Mjolinor> except that you get seom money
[20:11:18] <Mjolinor> if you patent it tehn you will not get anything but headache and die ahving not sorted it out
[20:12:14] <Mjolinor> it is hard and its horribly complex and difficult
[20:12:17] * FinboySlick is all playful about it, btw, it's your idea, do what you feel is best.
[20:12:27] <Mjolinor> you need a big company
[20:13:02] <Mjolinor> the problem is that if you are not experianced in these things then what you feel is best is usually ill informed
[20:13:29] <andypugh> There is actually only one company in the world likely to be interested. They are in Germany (so stand a better-tha-average chance of playing by the rules)
[20:13:42] <Mjolinor> the best way by far is to find a big company to take it, that has risks and you need good contreacats / NDAs in place before you release it
[20:13:52] <Mjolinor> hmm
[20:14:05] <Mjolinor> germany is no beetter or worse than most places
[20:14:14] <Mjolinor> for sure china is the worst :)
[20:14:25] <Mjolinor> but first to market will win every time
[20:14:35] <FinboySlick> Mjolinor: You're talking to a brit, they have an odd perception of ze-germans.
[20:14:54] <Mjolinor> I am a brit :)
[20:14:56] * FinboySlick watches Top Gear, he knows.
[20:15:01] <andypugh> They like rules. The more rules they have, the happier they are.
[20:15:15] <danimal_laptop> haha FinboySlick
[20:15:27] <danimal_laptop> they certainly don't like Amuricans
[20:15:37] <Mjolinor> the germans?
[20:15:42] <Mjolinor> they don't like anything
[20:15:42] <danimal_laptop> apparently we're all fat
[20:15:44] <Loetmichel> andypugh: ahem... dont agree
[20:15:47] <danimal_laptop> the brits
[20:15:50] <Loetmichel> and i live in germay
[20:15:59] <andypugh> So does my girlfriend :-)
[20:16:55] <andypugh> (Well, "girlfriend" is rather stretching the word, but is close enough)
[20:17:21] <danimal_laptop> out of curiousity, how well would an emc'ed machine run if it were streaming pandora? a d510 intel board.
[20:17:22] <Mjolinor> hmm, that has scary thoughts going in my head
[20:17:47] <cradek> danimal_laptop: it wouldn't matter to emc
[20:18:19] <Loetmichel> andypugh: so you are wearing a bowler and a "pinguin"?
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[20:18:28] <danimal_laptop> thanks cradek. i'm thinking about ditching the computer in the shop which i usually stream pandora through
[20:18:38] <danimal_laptop> just stream it through the mill :)
[20:18:48] <FinboySlick> That's something I was wondering too (not pandora specifically), but assuming that EMC2 runs real-time priority, nothing would really affect it CPU-wise, right?
[20:18:54] <danimal_laptop> i just don't have room for a spare computer in there
[20:18:59] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Of course not! I am Working Class!
[20:19:02] <cradek> right
[20:19:05] <FinboySlick> (I mean nothing else running on the box)
[20:19:43] <Loetmichel> andypugh: just wanted to show you a german -> english stereotype ;-)
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[20:20:32] <danimal_laptop> man, that purple soap from Zep works awesome. my shop floor looks like new again, except for all the epoxy paint missing
[20:20:41] <Loetmichel> the best incarnation of "american mom" i have ever seen was a brit.
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[20:21:04] <danimal_laptop> hi JT-Shop
[20:21:28] <JT-Shop> Hi Dan
[20:21:32] <danimal_laptop> how goes it
[20:21:42] * Loetmichel was two weeks in london as a "end of school jouney", where we were in "bed and breakfeast"
[20:22:01] <andypugh> I know, but there really is some truth in all the stereotypes. I am just happy that you chose the bowler hat and unbrella rather that the Inselaffe appellation.
[20:22:10] <danimal_laptop> lol
[20:22:23] <danimal_laptop> fish and chips?
[20:22:54] <Loetmichel> the women who picked me and my classmate up at the bus stop hat winders in her hair, ab morning coat over her skirt , a cigarrette in the mouth and drove a myfair sport like on a racetrack ;-)
[20:23:34] <Mjolinor> you're talking about Londoners, they are not British :)
[20:23:39] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[20:23:40] <Mjolinor> they are Southerners
[20:23:46] <andypugh> Ah, she had been to Landlady School.
[20:25:13] <JT-Shop> not bad, internet has been down so I drove to a motor shop about an hour away to look at a 15hp motor for my phase converter
[20:25:50] <Loetmichel> andypugh: but the family and the house hat been rather nice.
[20:25:54] <danimal_laptop> nice, upgrading?
[20:26:19] <danimal_laptop> there's a ton of motors at the surplus yard if you want me to look for you
[20:26:25] <danimal_laptop> big ones
[20:26:31] <Loetmichel> somwhere in the outskitrts of london, working class red brick house but a VERY nice daughter ;-)
[20:26:58] <Loetmichel> ... my english made a leap in that two weeks it hadn in 6 jears of school ;-)
[20:27:03] <Loetmichel> hadnt
[20:28:17] <Loetmichel> just out of curiosity: where in GB you are located, andypugh?
[20:29:12] <jdhNC> you can get his lat/long from one of his iphone3gs pics :)
[20:29:14] <andypugh> Just east of London. But that isn't where I am from.
[20:30:19] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: from mine, too
[20:31:21] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12346 <- this one for example
[20:31:36] <Loetmichel> (shit have i grown old ;-)
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[20:32:52] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12388 or this one (at work)
[20:32:54] <jdhNC> you have a streak?
[20:32:58] <Loetmichel> yes
[20:33:13] <jdhNC> I briefly wanted one of thse, then decided it was too big
[20:33:27] <Loetmichel> and just changed the display the SECOND time...
[20:33:37] <jdhNC> now I think my 4.5" is small enough and would like a 5.3"
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[20:33:54] <Loetmichel> first time i stepped on it, second time i let it fall on concrete
[20:34:20] <Loetmichel> it isnt tooo big, just big enough ;-)
[20:35:08] <Loetmichel> looks a little silly if you actually talk with it, though: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12325
[20:35:33] <jdhNC> no streetview from google for you... you can see andypugh's neighbor's cat
[20:35:43] <Loetmichel> hmm?
[20:36:44] <jdhNC> damn, that is huge. Guess I'm glad I didn't get one :)
[20:37:21] <Loetmichel> interesting detail: the first time i stepped on it: the front glass has survived but the lcd was broken _from the back_
[20:37:34] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12355
[20:37:41] <andypugh> jdhNC: You might be seeing an "amusing" concrete dog, actually.
[20:38:10] <jdhNC> andypugh: it's sitting in the window
[20:38:52] <jdhNC> not that I'm some kind of weird creepy internette stalker sort of person
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[20:40:16] <andypugh> That's probably a cat then. The amusing concrete dog tends not to move
[20:40:52] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[20:41:08] <Loetmichel> not enough dynamite handy?
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[20:49:40] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I think I found a winner.
[20:50:49] <FinboySlick> Hmmm, does the livecd disable hyperthreading by default?
[20:51:13] <cradek> that's impossible since it's a bios setting
[20:53:17] <FinboySlick> I'm still getting ~8k jitter on this little board.
[20:53:45] <FinboySlick> 6, really but I managed to beat it enough to make that climb to 8.
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[20:54:12] <cradek> yay
[20:54:33] <FinboySlick> And this is booting off of USB, which I think ought to be pretty bad for latency to begin with.
[20:56:04] <danimal_laptop> JT-Shop: let me know if you want me to check the surplus yard for a motor
[20:56:33] <danimal_laptop> they got tons of them
[20:59:43] <FinboySlick> What should the parallel port be set to? Normal or EPP/ECP?
[21:00:01] <cradek> unless using ppmc or mesa smart hardware, it matters not
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[21:04:13] <Quack> danimal can you check the surplus yard for a bridgeport =p
[21:04:36] <danimal_laptop> they have one but it's sold
[21:04:57] <danimal_laptop> are you ready to buy one? I can probably find one
[21:05:08] <andypugh> cradek: What problems did you find with the "message" component?
[21:05:32] <andypugh> (I have added auto-docs for the "messages" modparam)
[21:05:56] <danimal_laptop> so i'm looking at the 7i64...... what's the best way to use it with emc? serial?
[21:05:59] <Quack> i'm ready to spend $1500 on just the bridgeport, reserving $2000 for tooling, etc. no longer caring about CNC, in fact DRO is not even important
[21:06:03] <andypugh> ((using the undocumemented "modparam dummy" statement))
[21:06:26] <andypugh> $1500 buys a lot of Bridgeport
[21:06:37] <danimal_laptop> Quack: you should be able to find one pretty easily
[21:06:46] <Quack> i saw one in Irvine for $800
[21:06:57] <andypugh> danimal_laptop: I think it only works with Mesa cards, it isn't "ordinary" serial
[21:06:59] <Quack> hopefully i can check it out soon, but i'm stuck in the bay area for a few more days
[21:07:20] <danimal_laptop> andypugh: so it doesnt work with the 5i20?
[21:07:39] <andypugh> Yes, that's a Mesa card..
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[21:08:36] <danimal_laptop> i dont understand how to hook it up then...
[21:08:43] <andypugh> You probably want a 7i44 too
[21:08:46] <danimal_laptop> i'm just used to the ribbon cable
[21:09:26] <andypugh> The 7i44 converts from ribbon-cable to 8xRJ45
[21:09:54] <andypugh> (Pete maybe ought to make a 4-channel or even 2-channel version)
[21:10:09] <danimal_laptop> ah
[21:10:14] <danimal_laptop> that adds a bit to the cost
[21:10:49] <andypugh> I don't know if you can wire semi-direct or not, there might be signal level conversion going on.
[21:11:01] <andypugh> Do you already have the 8i20?
[21:11:07] <danimal_laptop> 5i20
[21:11:08] <PCW> ARGHH after 2.5 days of pulling hair the resolver problem is a Xilinx compiler bug
[21:11:27] <andypugh> Sorry, 5i20
[21:11:33] <danimal_laptop> i have a 5i20 i was going to borrow from my engraver
[21:11:42] <danimal_laptop> since i'm not using that anytime soon
[21:12:05] <andypugh> PCW: Enough of your problems, how about saying whether it is possible to wire a 7i64 direct, without the 7i44
[21:12:10] <andypugh> :-)
[21:12:11] <danimal_laptop> maybe i'll just order 2 7i37's
[21:12:17] <danimal_laptop> haha
[21:12:19] <JT-Shop> the 15hp motor is so heavy I used the cherry picker to git it out of the van
[21:12:25] <jdhNC> anyone know why I would have bought a 7i47 and 7i34? (also have 5i23 and 7i43)
[21:12:41] <danimal_laptop> JT-Shop: haha i bet
[21:12:43] <PCW> No it needs a differential driver/receiver (it has a RS422 interface)
[21:12:45] <jdhNC> I have no rs422 needs
[21:14:11] <andypugh> I think Mesa name their cards randomly so that they sell more to the easily-confused
[21:14:17] <danimal_laptop> haha
[21:14:22] <danimal_laptop> i thought the same
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[21:14:46] <danimal_laptop> i'm just gunna go the 7i37 route
[21:15:06] <jdhNC> I got a 7i37 too which seems to be reasonable
[21:15:24] <jdhNC> I must have been really confused on the 422 stuff
[21:15:24] <PCW> you can run the sserial interfaces with 7I34, 7I44, 7I47, 7I52, 7I74, 7I76,7I77,7I78 daughter cards
[21:16:39] <PCW> with varying ease of cabling... 7I77 and 7U74 are easiest (cat 6 straight through patch cables)
[21:16:41] <danimal_laptop> i have 3 7i37's on other machines, they work fine
[21:16:48] <PCW> 7I74
[21:17:21] <jdhNC> 7i34 looks like just a buffer board or something?
[21:17:48] <PCW> SSERISL makes more sense if you need more I/O
[21:17:49] <PCW> Yes 7I34 is just a RS-422 buffer
[21:18:05] <PCW> so for UART or SSERIAL configs
[21:18:43] <jdhNC> the 7i47 has nice terminal strips. Can it be used for general IO?
[21:19:31] <PCW> 7I47 can be use for differential I/O or single ended 5V output
[21:20:12] <PCW> or differential encoders
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[21:21:17] <jdhNC> http://pastebin.com/9Y2t4iKP
[21:21:26] <danimal_laptop> calling you now PCW
[21:21:37] <jdhNC> is that using the 7i47 for anything, or is it just the 5i23?
[21:22:21] <danimal_laptop> 2 7i37ta's it is
[21:24:21] <danimal_laptop> yay, they're in stock
[21:24:29] <PCW> Anything, 7I47 was made for differential encoder inputs and step/dir or PWM outputs mainly
[21:24:31] <PCW> but because it gas differential inputs and outputs it can also be used with RS-422 serial comms (like SSERIAL)
[21:25:14] <danimal_laptop> now i just have to cross my fingers that the machine has encoders
[21:25:22] <danimal_laptop> and not resolvers
[21:25:44] <PCW> usually the FPGA card doesn't matter (they are fairly universal)
[21:25:46] <PCW> only some big configs wont fit in the smallest FPGA (5I20)
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[21:26:22] <jdhNC> I have a 5i23 (and a 7i43)
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[21:27:12] <danimal_laptop> now i have 5 7i37's lol
[21:27:44] <PCW> 5I23 is about 1/2 used up by the resolver interface for example (and resolver interface will not fit in 5I20)
[21:28:17] <danimal_laptop> PCW: the resolver interface doesnt work with the 5i20??
[21:28:23] <danimal_laptop> darn
[21:28:51] <PCW> Nope I tried a shoehorn but still no-go
[21:28:52] <danimal_laptop> so i guess if the machine has resolvers i have to get a new fpga board
[21:29:10] <danimal_laptop> i guess i can swap them out for encoders
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[21:33:26] <PCW> Andy could you resend me the resolver and SSERIAL patches? I think I deleted them if a fit of mail spool cleaning
[21:34:59] <cradek> you guys oughta use git
[21:36:05] <cradek> git fetch andys-repo andys-branch-name:my-branch
[21:36:08] <cradek> git merge my-branch
[21:37:15] <PCW> I suppose but I always get git messed up somehow and reclone regularly
[21:38:26] <emcrules_mobile> PCW: do you need to know what board versoins I have for the firmware?
[21:38:38] <PCW> No
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[21:39:16] <emcrules_mobile> ok
[21:41:08] <Vq> PCW: git checkout . ; git clean -xfd # is usually as good as a reclone (unless you have staged files, but I assume you haven't)
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[21:42:40] <PCW> We've tried to be careful not to break any existing SSERIAL devices with FPGA firmware revs
[21:42:42] <PCW> really ancient 8I20s or 7I64s might need to have their firmware updated and there is one
[21:42:43] <PCW> outstanding 8I20 startup bug that will require re-flashing the 8I20 pic code
[21:43:33] <PCW> (but it only cause rare failure to start interface bugs so I dont think anyone has noticed it)
[21:44:23] <PCW> Vq: where # is one of those long hex numbers?
[21:44:30] <emcrules_mobile> haven't even put power to mine yet
[21:44:55] <Vq> PCW: No, # is a comment :)
[21:45:42] <PCW> OK ill have to lookup "git clean"
[21:46:16] <Vq> git checkout . # restores modified files under git control
[21:46:26] <Vq> git clean # removes files not under git control
[21:46:54] <Vq> -f makes it really do it, -x makes it remove files listed in the ignore file, -d makes it remove directories
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[21:49:47] <syyl_> hmm
[21:50:10] <syyl_> what does "joint select A" in pncconf mean?
[21:50:23] <PCW> emcrules_mobile: would a SSERIALconfig for the 7I44 on P2 and a standard 4 channel servo pinout on P3 be OK?
[21:50:24] <PCW> (its easiest for me to just block copy an existing pinout section from pinout file to pinout file)
[21:50:37] <syyl_> is it the selection of the axis to be moved by a "multi-handwheel?"
[21:52:22] <emcrules_mobile> PCW: sure what about gpio
[21:53:19] <PCW> if you dont enable any of the PWMs/encoders all of P3 and P4 are GPIO
[21:54:05] <emcrules_mobile> that works
[21:54:41] <emcrules_mobile> ah well I need one encoder
[21:55:57] <PCW> Looks like there are already a couple pinout files one with 8 sserials and 8 servo interfaces (PWM+encoder)
[21:55:59] <PCW> theres another with some stepgens
[21:57:47] <emcrules_mobile> its just to play with the 8i20 so just need to conect 8i20 and one encoder 3 hall signals and enable output
[21:59:37] <PCW> ok building svss8_8 (on this on the sserial (7I44) is on the last connector)
[22:00:30] <emcrules_mobile> thanks
[22:03:29] <PCW> OK let me make see if its vaguely alive
[22:03:39] <PCW> make sure
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[22:13:51] <andypugh> PCW: Done
[22:15:14] <PCW> Thanks
[22:15:59] <emcrules_d510> andypugh: the firmware goes into /lib/firmware/hm2 correct?
[22:16:48] <andypugh> ../lib/firmware/hm2/5i23 (or whatever)
[22:17:13] <emcrules_d510> ah yes
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[22:24:45] <PCW> emcrules_d510: I haven't had a chance to test it but freeby.mesanet.com/svss8_8.bit (sserial on last connector)
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[22:27:55] <emcrules_d510> PCW: Thanks many
[22:29:39] <andypugh> cradek: I just noticed that the message .comp is LGPL, and taints the kernel. Does that make it a non-starter?
[22:42:57] <emcrules_d510> hm2/hm2_5i23.0: invalid token in config string: "sserial_mode0=00000000"
[22:43:14] <andypugh> Yes. I changed it.
[22:43:28] <andypugh> Where did you get that config file from?
[22:43:30] <emcrules_d510> ah so i need to set it
[22:43:39] <emcrules_d510> you
[22:43:58] <andypugh> use sserial_port_0=00000000 (or just leave it out completely)
[22:47:13] <PCW> freeby.mesanet.com/svss8_8.pin is pinout file
[22:47:35] <PCW> (just for reference)
[22:49:22] <emcrules_d510> 8i20.hal:28: Pin 'hm2_5i23.0.8i20.0.7.angle' does not exist
[22:49:22] <emcrules_d510> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2..
[22:49:48] <emcrules_d510> nevermind helps if i plug it in im sure
[22:51:09] <PCW> 8i20 needs
[22:51:10] <andypugh> Yes, and you would need to plug it in socket 7 for 0.7 to exist
[22:51:11] <PCW> 1. connect to sserial
[22:51:13] <PCW> 2. some bus Voltage (50V is OK)
[22:51:15] <PCW> 3. enable input active
[22:51:17] <PCW> for it to start
[22:51:41] <andypugh> If you don't have a slowly fashing green light, one of them is missing.
[22:52:05] <andypugh> But you should get comms with just the RJ45 (is it an RJ45?)
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[22:53:08] <PCW> enough to ID the 8I20 but it wont start (setup start will succeed but normal start will fail)
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[23:01:18] <emcrules_d510> can the hardware enable be held closed for testing?
[23:04:32] <JT-Shop> seems like Chinese quality is getting better, just assembled a work bench (didn't have to look at the label to see country of origin) and each package of screws contained exactly the correct amount... The Chinese can count!
[23:05:41] <andypugh> Yes, you can jumper the pins on the 8i20 to use the cable 5V as an enable.
[23:05:41] <danimal_laptop> haha
[23:05:58] <Tom_itx> check it with a geiger counter
[23:06:10] <Tom_itx> and don't eat the paint
[23:06:17] <andypugh> Japan =/= China
[23:06:20] <JT-Shop> and don't drop more than one screw as the stupid pack only had one each
[23:06:52] <danimal_laptop> japan quality (except for cars) has seemed to be better than American quality unfortunately
[23:07:21] <danimal_laptop> for machines anyways
[23:07:28] <andypugh> err, I think it is true of the cars too.
[23:08:52] <andypugh> emcrules_d510: link 1 to 3 and 2 to 4
[23:09:49] <PCW> well standard patch trouble
[23:09:49] <emcrules_d510> andypugh: how do you identify the ports on the 7i44? there is no manual on the mesa site
[23:09:51] <PCW> should git reset --hard reset the current branch to the state on the repository?
[23:10:13] <PCW> They are marked on the card
[23:10:18] <JT-Shop> some models maybe better/worse than japan quality... I've had 0 problems with my '02 Z71 Silverado can't say the same from the Uplander but not much has gone wrong with it really
[23:10:37] <PCW> I do have the 7I44 manual on my todo list
[23:10:37] <andypugh> PCW: You might want to do git pull --rebase too.
[23:11:11] <PCW> I did git pull but not rebase, let me try
[23:11:54] <danimal_laptop> definitely not the same for cars. take them apart, you'll see.
[23:12:14] <JT-Shop> I usually give up and do a git clone and get a fresh checkout :/
[23:12:16] <danimal_laptop> JT-Shop: i had an 02 silverado too, it was a good truck
[23:12:19] <andypugh> I do work for a US car manufacturer.
[23:12:30] <danimal_laptop> andypugh: i know, but a foreign one
[23:13:21] <andypugh> Well, we were just told off today because our quality metrics were behind the Japanese. (that was a global thing)
[23:13:24] <danimal_laptop> andypugh: you don't see a problem with Honda's color coded bearing system? how hard is it to consistently grind the crank journals to size...
[23:13:30] <Tom_itx> some of their engineering seems backwards though
[23:13:57] <danimal_laptop> how friggin loaded is their wheel if they cant keep it within .001"
[23:14:04] <danimal_laptop> on a cnc grinder
[23:14:19] <danimal_laptop> on the same crankshaft....
[23:14:41] <andypugh> No, I don't see a problem with matching bearings to housings and cranks. Especially if it is to get the exact optimum fit.
[23:15:01] <andypugh> And how likely is it that it will ever matter?
[23:15:21] <andypugh> (Besides, as far as I know, every manufacturer does it)
[23:15:37] <danimal_laptop> i had a crank that was .007" off between journals
[23:15:50] <Tom_itx> not wear?
[23:15:50] <andypugh> From new?
[23:16:04] <danimal_laptop> the color codes confirmed it was from new
[23:16:41] <PCW> No that didnt work either so Ill try rm -r emc-dev and reclone...
[23:16:58] <andypugh> I don't see that as a quality issue. I see the fact that you ended up with the engine apart and found out about is to be a quality issue.
[23:17:16] <danimal_laptop> yea, a blown motor at 54k miles
[23:17:26] <danimal_laptop> quality issue...
[23:17:31] <andypugh> PCW: It could be my dodgy patches again.
[23:17:51] <andypugh> danimal_laptop: Was the crank the problem?
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[23:18:04] <danimal_laptop> yes, rod bearing went
[23:18:29] <Tom_itx> early vw 4cyl had weak rod bearings
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[23:18:36] <Tom_itx> water cooled
[23:18:52] <danimal_laptop> most older hondas around here with much over 150k leave a nice little blue cloud when they take off
[23:19:22] <danimal_laptop> the piston rings wear a really deep ridge in the top of the cyl
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[23:32:18] <Jymmm> carbon rings?
[23:35:21] <Tom_itx> carbon?
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[23:39:58] <emcrules_d510> PCW: can the 7i44 be powered from either TB P1 or TB2
[23:43:10] <PCW> Yes but it should be PC power
[23:44:06] <PCW> AND IGNORE P1 use TB2
[23:45:10] <PCW> P1 is 5V GND GND 5V so never connect to floppy power (it will be removed on next rev)
[23:46:04] <PCW> Andy patches applied on clean 2.5 and resolver velocity now works!
[23:47:11] <PCW> (I guess its in RPS for a 1/1 resolver)
[23:47:12] <PCW> Now checking sserial count data type
[23:47:52] <emcrules_d510> PCW: a external regulated 5VDC supply should be fine correct?
[23:48:32] <A2Sheds> what protects the 7i43 FPGA from latchup when it is powered only by USB (but configured for EPP) and W6 and W7 in the UP position?
[23:49:06] <PCW> emcrules_d510 Yes but you need to disconnect cable power
[23:49:16] <A2Sheds> and USB drops power but EPP is still active
[23:49:26] <emcrules_d510> yes jumper w1 in down position
[23:50:51] <PCW> If theres no core voltage all FPGA outputs are floating (but the EPP signals will try and power the 3.3 via the protection diodes, this causes no harm)
[23:50:55] <A2Sheds> sorry with W6 UP and W7 down
[23:51:34] <A2Sheds> ah diodes, I haven't a schematic
[23:53:15] <PCW> Only fragile thing on the 7I43 ever found is hot plugging the EPP when using an external 5V supply
[23:54:50] <PCW> If I did it again I would probably use a quickswitch to isolate the ports and do 5-3V translation on the EPP interface (7I62 does this)
[23:55:49] <andypugh> PCW: Default is RPS, docs say how to get RPM.
[23:56:12] <PCW> yeah looked like RPS
[23:58:50] <andypugh> Push?
[23:59:26] <emcrules_d510> andypugh: ok I have buss voltage to the 8i20 cat5 cable between it and the 7i44. but still no luck. the 8120 HV on led is yellow no other leds on