#emc | Logs for 2011-11-09

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[00:00:03] <PCW> JT: 1.4 should be close to right (testing all I/O with andys driver and manual in hand found the last error I think)
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[00:03:03] <andypugh> I don't get this at all.
[00:03:21] <andypugh> How can the md5s be the same when there is new content?
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[00:04:49] <andypugh> OK, so the file creation time and the file contents disagree. What the heck?
[00:05:14] <FinboySlick> andypugh: DST change?
[00:05:27] <andypugh> No, it isn't that
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[00:05:47] <FinboySlick> andypugh: crossed a wormhole?
[00:05:53] <PCW> all the files I got have a length of 26681 bytes and a md5 checksum of 87145008d20ba9f0d6e462113d18f196
[00:06:50] <FinboySlick> BTW, anyone here can teach me enough git to pull emc-dev from just before a dependency on libboost was added?
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[00:10:27] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Try git checkout 3c5d11f3cedf5fd850c7d8bfc4c1c0eec9f89c94
[00:10:53] <andypugh> (This is a guess)
[00:11:36] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Well, that's probably all I needed.
[00:12:07] <FinboySlick> I find it a bit ironic that my glibc build is smaller than my uClibc build.
[00:12:47] <PCW> Well the good news is the file is different, the bad news is that it still doesn't apply ( same problem hostmot2.c line 84)
[00:12:49] <FinboySlick> Maybe it's that I had to spend less time patching code and could spend more trimming fat.
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[00:25:04] <andypugh> PCW: The good news is that it just failed for me too.
[00:27:05] <PCW> some magic about how the patches are made?
[00:27:34] <andypugh> I am trying a rebase
[00:38:22] <PCW> OK 4th times a charm!
[00:41:12] <andypugh> I wish I could learn from other people's mistakes, not my own.
[00:41:32] <Tom_itx> then how would we learn?
[00:42:40] <andypugh> Can you confirm what the pins do? I have rather forgotten. ie, what the output of "angle" is, how many counts to a full rev, whether there is a wrap after 256 revs?
[00:43:06] <andypugh> For the time being, though, goodnight.
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[01:03:04] <jdhNC> any free windows backplot viewers?
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[01:07:37] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop, i found you a surface grinder
[01:07:58] <Danimal_garage> and me a mill :)
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[01:11:09] <Valen> aww i want a surface grinder
[01:11:13] <Valen> make stuff shiny ;->
[01:11:20] <Danimal_garage> lol
[01:11:23] <Danimal_garage> yea
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[01:11:28] <Danimal_garage> good reason to have one
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[01:12:59] <Danimal_garage> now i gotta figure out how to squeeze another mill in here
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[01:14:35] <Valen> we were planning on making a CnC lathe
[01:14:47] <Valen> we figured vertical would be the way to do it ;->
[01:14:55] <Danimal_garage> making or retrofitting
[01:15:00] <Danimal_garage> a VTL would be cool
[01:15:02] <Valen> making
[01:15:09] <Valen> normal aspect ratio
[01:15:15] <Valen> ie long and skinny parts
[01:15:19] <Valen> but vertical
[01:15:28] <Danimal_garage> turn a drill press upside down
[01:15:43] <Danimal_garage> put linear rails on it
[01:15:44] <Valen> it'd be best however to have the chuck at the top in terms of not having crap fall into it
[01:15:45] <Danimal_garage> lol
[01:15:55] <Danimal_garage> ok just use a dripp press then
[01:15:57] <Valen> downside is mounting stuff isn't easy
[01:15:59] <Danimal_garage> drill*
[01:16:09] <Valen> we were thinking of going slightly above that ;-P
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[01:26:15] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: send me an email when you get this so i can forward you pics of the surface grinder. sales@homebrewedcomponents.com
[01:27:02] <Danimal_garage> he wants 1k for it, it's a 6x18, manual feed, american made (he forgot the brand).
[01:42:22] <Danimal_garage> i think it's a boyar schultz
[01:43:41] <Danimal_garage> which i think is close to Harig
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[01:59:13] <FinboySlick> argh...
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[01:59:27] <FinboySlick> All this work and still hard freeze as soon as I load an rtai module.
[02:00:00] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Got memleak around?
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[02:18:49] <A2Sheds> I'll conjure him up
[02:21:23] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I hope it doesn't involve a pentagram and dead chickens.
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[02:21:44] <memleak> Hi FinboySlick
[02:21:58] <FinboySlick> memleak: Yo great savior.
[02:22:21] <memleak> Haha. What seems to be the issue?
[02:22:30] <memleak> :D
[02:22:39] <FinboySlick> Remind my pitiful brain of the magic combo. You said no 'optimize for size' and what else on the kernel side?
[02:22:59] <FinboySlick> This is on 2.6.35.9
[02:23:45] <memleak> Turn off the inline option.. i forgot the exact name
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[02:23:53] <memleak> It's under kernel hacking near the bottom
[02:24:11] <memleak> Something to do with optimizing inlining.
[02:24:22] <FinboySlick> Allow gcc to uninline functions marked 'inline' ?
[02:24:26] <memleak> yes
[02:24:34] <FinboySlick> OK, that one is off, but I had -s
[02:24:43] <memleak> -s is strip right?
[02:24:43] <FinboySlick> I mean -Os
[02:24:51] <FinboySlick> Optimize for size.
[02:24:57] <memleak> oh -Os
[02:25:49] <memleak> -s is another flag that has no real impact on performance but strips certain things out of the binary, forgot exactly what... I had problems with -Os being used
[02:26:09] <FinboySlick> I hard-freeze as soon as I load an RTAI module.
[02:26:32] <FinboySlick> Which is a bit odd because at some point during my uClibc attempts they actually all loaded.
[02:26:42] <memleak> I had kernel panics.. hard-freezes... hmm.. any previous dmesg from when it crashed?
[02:27:22] <FinboySlick> No, cursor just stops blinking. I don't think it has time to prink anything.
[02:28:21] <memleak> does it happen when you modprobe or only when you run emc or latency-test?
[02:28:50] <FinboySlick> Well, the rtai modules are in /usr/realtime so I have to insmod, but yeah, it happens as soon as I insmod one of them.
[02:28:55] <FinboySlick> I haven't tried them all though.
[02:29:14] <memleak> hmm..
[02:29:29] <memleak> have you tried turning on core dumps and using gdb?
[02:30:26] <memleak> ulimit -c unlimited
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[02:30:55] <FinboySlick> Hah, you greatly overestimate my skill level. I can try to do that mind you but my gdb skills are very very puny.
[02:31:07] <FinboySlick> my kung-fu is not as strong as your kung-fu.
[02:31:17] <memleak> you use gentoo though right?
[02:31:41] <FinboySlick> Yeah, which means there are legions of smarter people already with patches to most issues I've ever run into ;)
[02:32:10] <memleak> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/backtraces.xml I'm not sure if gdb works on modules though
[02:32:41] <FinboySlick> I'll disable -Os first, see how far that gets me.
[02:34:35] <memleak> it is possible actually now that i look into it, as far as debugging modules using gdb. the fact it causes a lock-up upon loading makes it more difficult though..
[02:35:07] <FinboySlick> on rtai config, you just unable math and c99?
[02:35:51] <memleak> theres also kgdb as well. i know that RTAI is very picky about the kernel configs though so it might not be the module itself
[02:36:02] <memleak> yeah math fun support with C99
[02:36:27] <FinboySlick> OK.
[02:36:42] <memleak> can you post your entire kernel config?
[02:37:01] <memleak> i might be able to determine what the problem is based off of that
[02:37:03] <FinboySlick> memleak: Sure.
[02:37:12] <jdhNC> anyone have a small pc board layout I could have (in eagle)
[02:38:17] <FinboySlick> memleak: http://pastebin.com/DwrYgjyr
[02:39:39] <memleak> can you also do an lspci?
[02:40:33] <FinboySlick> memleak: That's a bit trickier, it's not built on the box yet so I'll have to port it. Cross-building is a bit of a bitch when it comes to that.
[02:40:43] <FinboySlick> memleak: It's a very plain Alix1D though.
[02:40:49] <FinboySlick> disabled sound and USB
[02:43:12] <memleak> alright 1 second im loading your config into my kernel source
[02:43:25] <memleak> patching rtai and all so i can see.
[02:45:19] <FinboySlick> memleak: rsync-ing my new kernel and lspci on the alix root, should have lspci for you in a couple minutes.
[02:57:51] <FinboySlick> memleak: http://pastebin.com/FWdrqrj8 <-- lspci -v
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[02:59:51] <memleak> alright
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[03:00:05] <memleak> i noticed lots of things that could be wrong with the config
[03:00:15] <memleak> i'll post a new one in just a sec
[03:00:18] <FinboySlick> OK.
[03:00:23] <FinboySlick> Remember, this machine has no APIC.
[03:00:26] JT-Shop_ is now known as JT-Shop
[03:00:28] <memleak> if it doesn't work, replace the TINY_RCU with the regular TREE one
[03:00:30] <memleak> yes i know
[03:01:47] <FinboySlick> Ok.
[03:01:50] <FinboySlick> Anything else?
[03:04:30] <memleak> nope :)
[03:04:33] <memleak> posting new config
[03:04:45] <memleak> install lzop on your kernel building machine
[03:04:49] <FinboySlick> Building with the tree RCU
[03:04:56] <FinboySlick> lzop?
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[03:05:02] <memleak> LZO compression
[03:05:24] <memleak> bzip2 is the slowest and clunkiest out of them all
[03:05:40] <memleak> i changed that to LZO, and some lots of other varios things
[03:05:44] <memleak> *various
[03:05:58] <memleak> feel free to look it over
[03:06:13] <FinboySlick> heh, as long as it works!
[03:06:47] <memleak> just be sure to recompile and reinstall emc and rtai userspace (/usr/realtime stuff)
[03:07:11] <memleak> http://pastebin.com/svRXrzEt
[03:08:19] <memleak> install acct as well (6.5.5)
[03:08:35] <FinboySlick> acct?
[03:08:54] <memleak> sys-process/acct -> GNU system accounting utilities
[03:10:09] <memleak> i'm not sure if these are all required but i got that config as close as i could to machines i got it running on, but still retaining the settings for the specific board you have
[03:11:08] <FinboySlick> so long as you didn't touch the ide thing. It's very picky, never managed to get it to work with libata
[03:11:12] <memleak> LZO decreases decompression and compression, acct is for the v3 BSD accounting thing in the kernel, i also added in your I2C hardware and some various HID/USB tweaks
[03:11:27] <memleak> i changed the SCSI options but not the IDE controller
[03:12:00] <memleak> you had things on that wouldn't effect things, and i turned on the async option to increase speed. should be fine
[03:12:20] <memleak> also i turned on legacy /proc/ide just to be safe
[03:13:11] <FinboySlick> OK, building kernel, rtai and emc2 are next.
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[03:19:41] <FinboySlick> Heh, so glad I,m not building all this on the alix.
[03:20:33] <FinboySlick> memleak: WARNING: "__fixunsdfdi" [/root/emc2-dev/src/hostmot2.ko] undefined!
[03:20:33] <FinboySlick> This a biggie?
[03:20:58] <memleak> i dont think so...
[03:21:56] <FinboySlick> synching to flash...
[03:22:27] <memleak> so you're cross compiling or how do you build it?
[03:23:05] <FinboySlick> since it's all x86, I chroot to the alix gentoo filesystem and build using a bigger CPU.
[03:23:14] <FinboySlick> But I use the alix' native compiler, etc.
[03:23:22] <memleak> oh you have it the easy way.
[03:23:43] <FinboySlick> memleak: gentoo is very very nice with cross-compiling.
[03:23:51] <memleak> i did ARM development on distros where i had to build the compilers and all from source myself
[03:24:02] <memleak> from x86_64 to arm cortex a8
[03:24:17] <FinboySlick> memleak: You'd love gentoo for that.
[03:24:19] <memleak> a mix of crosstool-ng, qemu, and chroot
[03:24:27] <FinboySlick> You can just plain use portage and specify the arch you want to crossbuild for.
[03:24:42] <memleak> yeah i need to learn to use emerge and all that
[03:24:43] <FinboySlick> CHOST=arm-whatever-whatever emerge sompackage
[03:24:49] <memleak> write ebuilds etc
[03:25:06] <FinboySlick> Most of them you won't need to write ;)
[03:25:27] <FinboySlick> you might have to write a patch here and there, but there's already ebuilds for anything.
[03:25:32] <memleak> im on fedora atm. yum this, yum that. no customization and optimization though
[03:26:00] <FinboySlick> Heh, you wait a lot less than I do when I emerge firefox
[03:26:21] <memleak> well at least its not openoffice eh? :D
[03:26:29] <FinboySlick> That one is terrible.
[03:26:45] <FinboySlick> they moved to libre though, open isn't maintained. Not that it's any faster to build.
[03:27:02] <FinboySlick> I hate updates to boost too.
[03:27:10] <memleak> is koffice doing well?
[03:27:11] <FinboySlick> Actually, gentoo pretty much made me hate boost.
[03:27:19] <FinboySlick> I don't do kde, hate QT.
[03:27:34] <memleak> what DE you use?
[03:28:00] <FinboySlick> gnome2 for now, I dread gnome3 from what I've seen so far, might go xfce when push comes to shove.
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[03:28:14] <memleak> you can run gnome2 on gentoo?
[03:28:19] <FinboySlick> Sure.
[03:28:36] <memleak> what about updates?
[03:28:44] <memleak> or can you freeze those?
[03:28:49] <FinboySlick> It's still maintained.
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[03:28:59] <memleak> oh gentoo didn't switch?
[03:29:03] <memleak> good call on their part :)
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[03:29:16] <FinboySlick> Oh there's a bit of infighting with that.
[03:29:26] <memleak> heh XD
[03:29:27] <FinboySlick> You should see the gnome-mplayer saga when they forced gtk3 on it.
[03:29:54] <FinboySlick> everybody submitted gtk2-support patch (as in honoring the -gtk3 flag). They were all denied.
[03:30:42] <FinboySlick> at least the 'sane' ebuilds are in the bug report and people can just emerge those.
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[03:31:30] <memleak> i'm surprised they didn't remove those posts
[03:31:56] <FinboySlick> Nah, gentoo democracy is prety healthy.
[03:31:58] <memleak> i'm sure their backed up elsewhere too though
[03:32:48] <FinboySlick> Thing is that it's so easy to just push your own patches and overlay your own build tree for specific packages, you're never really a victim of devs being stupid.
[03:33:34] <FinboySlick> you just make a /usr/local/portage/media-video/gnome-mplayer/gnome-mplayer-1.4.0.ebuild
[03:33:51] <memleak> i remember back when i tried gentoo, i found all the packages too old and i wanted to unmask all the packages marked "~" they tend to not answer questions that they don't approve of
[03:33:57] <FinboySlick> portage will always prefer your builds on equal versions.
[03:34:13] <FinboySlick> Oh I've always run ful systems as ~
[03:34:27] <FinboySlick> If you show that you're not an idiot when debugging issues, they help.
[03:35:09] <FinboySlick> So long as you make it clear that you run unstable and that you're aware that things are *supposed* to break from time to time, they'll assist. Also helps a lot when you submit patches.
[03:35:14] <memleak> they declared unstability and suicide when _I_ mentioned it.
[03:35:39] <FinboySlick> memleak: Just give me a poke, I'll protect you from the evil bonzaikitten.
[03:35:55] <memleak> That nick sounds very familiar actually!
[03:36:14] <FinboySlick> Hehe, sort of a channel bully, and package maintainer.
[03:36:28] <FinboySlick> Takes a while to tame the kitten, but pretty nice once you manage.
[03:36:44] <memleak> i know lots of those..
[03:37:02] <FinboySlick> Usually, that's my job.
[03:37:20] <memleak> you're a maintainer?
[03:37:30] <FinboySlick> But I wouldn't really try to be too obnoxious here. No, but I'm a very good bully.
[03:38:09] <memleak> I did some packaging for arch linux, the distro that is becoming worse than ubuntu by the looks of things..
[03:38:50] <memleak> oops.. sorry guys. forgot which channel i was in... i just don't like ubuntu because of the sneaky things they do.. didn't mean to start an argument... :/
[03:39:16] <FinboySlick> Hah, don't worry memleak, you now have a bully protector.
[03:39:39] <FinboySlick> Or something.
[03:40:57] <memleak> i really didn't mean to say that here.. all distros have their quirks at some point.
[03:42:11] <memleak> hows the kernel working?
[03:43:43] <FinboySlick> Somehow one of the changes made my entire card read-only.
[03:43:56] <FinboySlick> Modules loaded, but I freeze on unload, which might not be a big deal.
[03:44:15] <memleak> which card?
[03:44:22] <FinboySlick> I'm booting off a CF card.
[03:44:44] <memleak> so you cant mount the fs as rw?
[03:44:55] <FinboySlick> Apparently not.
[03:45:07] <memleak> but the modules load for rtai>
[03:45:13] <FinboySlick> yes
[03:45:22] <FinboySlick> Which is big progress if you ask me.
[03:45:37] <memleak> ok the read-only thing i can fix
[03:45:56] <memleak> i know which one that was.
[03:46:01] <FinboySlick> I probably can too. Just wondering how that happened.
[03:48:21] <memleak> did you need USB_DEVICEFS on?
[03:48:31] <FinboySlick> no, the CF card is IDE.
[03:49:38] <ve7it> jdhNC, did you get an eagle board.... I can post one for you
[03:50:25] <memleak> SCSI generic support shouldn't have effected that
[03:50:40] <memleak> async scsi scanning shouldn't have either but maybe one of those did
[03:50:59] <memleak> for your RCU did you use tree or tiny?
[03:51:05] <jdhNC> ve7it: I would like a small one (4x4cm) or so if you have one
[03:51:14] <jdhNC> or anything like that
[03:51:21] <ve7it> jdhNC, try http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/kenwood.html its a 1 IC single sided board with a few few surface mount parts as well
[03:52:01] <jdhNC> that looks perfect, thanks!
[03:52:35] <ve7it> no problem... my site has a few other bigger boards as well if you need another example
[03:52:40] <jdhNC> did you use pcb-gcode for it?
[03:52:47] <ve7it> yes
[03:53:20] <jdhNC> does it have Z height probing bulit in?
[03:54:16] <FinboySlick> memleak: um... I loaded your config straight.
[03:54:22] <ve7it> no... a bigger double sided board that can also be built single sided if you dont mind putting a few wire jumpers on the top side http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/dspic-servo.html
[03:54:27] <memleak> ah
[03:54:28] <FinboySlick> Didn't even check it, that's how much I trust you man.
[03:55:09] <jdhNC> single is good, I'm just playing with some code that probes the board area and adjusts the Z's to compensate for the board, or mounting
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[03:56:16] <ve7it> cool.. I love being able to do proto boards, even if my spindle only does 3000rpm.... limits me to about 3or4 ipm with v cutter
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[04:06:05] <memleak> FinboySlick, I guess turn on BLK_DEV CONFIG_USB_DEVICEFS BLK_DEV_SD CHR_DEV_SG and just turn off CONFIG_SCSI_SCAN_ASYNC and see if that fixes the CF ro problem.
[04:09:03] <FinboySlick> memleak: It says the device is 'write protected'.
[04:09:24] <FinboySlick> But it isn't write protected if I mount it on another system.
[04:09:32] <memleak> yeah its the kernel config.
[04:09:53] <memleak> sorry about that. that's what happens when you take a bunch of guesses
[04:11:21] <memleak> tried to improve performance. i'm a speed demon..
[04:11:24] <FinboySlick> I think it's just BLK_DEV
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[06:59:25] <Loetmichel> moin
[06:59:48] <Loetmichel> s/moin/mornin'
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[08:01:29] <Guest635> hi
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[14:08:12] <skunkworks> http://cnczone.com/forums/emc_linux_enhanced_machine_control/140212-anyone_running_lathe_emc_europe.html
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[15:36:03] <Danimal_garage> mornin
[15:40:38] <Danimal_garage> PCW: i just noticed you sent back the 7i48 repaired, thanks a lot, what do i owe you for that?
[15:41:17] <Danimal_garage> sorry it took so long to notice, i thought it was something else
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[16:21:04] <Danimal_garage> Hi JT-Shop
[16:24:41] <JT-Shop> hi Dan
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[16:25:25] <Danimal_garage> i found a surface grinder for you
[16:26:16] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: I think it's a Boyar Schultz 6x18
[16:26:22] <Danimal_garage> $1000
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[16:27:30] <Danimal_garage> suposively in good shape, just missing the wheel guards
[16:29:07] <JT-Shop> most seems to be missing the guards for some reason
[16:29:40] <JT-Shop> does it have the magnetic chuck?
[16:31:08] <JT-Shop> my internet sucks today so if I drop off the face of the earth you know what happened
[16:31:25] <Danimal_garage> yes it does
[16:31:50] <Danimal_garage> i went to look at a mill yesterday, and i asked the guy if he had one, he said yea but it's at his house
[16:32:00] <Danimal_garage> he's a machinery mover
[16:32:14] <Danimal_garage> he's supposed to get some pics for me
[16:32:33] <Danimal_garage> email me @ sales@homebrewedcomponents.com and i'll forward them to you
[16:32:37] <Danimal_garage> if you want
[16:34:07] <JT-Shop> yes, I want
[16:34:49] <JT-Shop> will he ship it?
[16:35:03] <Danimal_garage> i think i can talk him into it
[16:35:10] <Danimal_garage> i'll help him crate it for you
[16:35:13] <JT-Shop> I think the e mail went through it took 4 tries :?
[16:35:19] <JT-Shop> thanks
[16:36:08] <Danimal_garage> yep got it
[16:36:39] <Danimal_garage> i think it's a boyar schultz, he couldnt remember but he kept thinkinbg it sounded like brown and sharp but it wasnt
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[16:37:20] <Danimal_garage> it's manual, not automatic
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[16:37:22] <JT-Shop> ok
[16:37:25] <JT-Shop> two more heavy moves and all the machines are in the shop
[16:37:33] <Danimal_garage> nice
[16:37:43] <JT-Shop> yep manual is what I wanted, takes up much less floor space
[16:37:49] <Danimal_garage> yea
[16:38:04] <Danimal_garage> he had a 6x12 but he sold it already
[16:38:25] <Danimal_garage> i may buy a mill from him
[16:38:37] <Danimal_garage> it's almost the exact same thing as my shizuoka
[16:38:54] <Danimal_garage> has a toolchanger (same one as my shizuoka)
[16:39:26] <Danimal_garage> it's got servos already though
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[16:39:58] <Danimal_garage> he wants $1000 for it, i think i'm going to grab it
[16:40:07] <mrsun> can emc use steppers with encoders? :)
[16:40:15] <Danimal_garage> yes
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[16:40:47] <Danimal_garage> the good thing is i can use my ladder from my current mill for the toolchanger
[16:42:05] <A2Sheds> mrsun: you can pretty much combine any type of motor with any type of encoder if you are willing to dabble with the config files in EMC
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[16:42:38] <Danimal_garage> i already figured out my floorplan.... i can move my manual lathe next to the hardinge where my workbench is, move the work bench to where my desk and small roll away is, and put the new mill where my manual lathe is
[16:42:44] <mrsun> cool =)
[16:42:54] <mrsun> was thinking of getting some kind of encoder to stick on the motors to detect faults =)
[16:43:30] <Danimal_garage> yea people do that
[16:43:38] <Danimal_garage> i almost did myself
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[16:45:39] <mrsun> but what happends if it ends up betwene two steps? :P
[16:45:54] <mrsun> say the angle 180 is exactly betwene step 40 and 41 or something :P
[16:46:25] <A2Sheds> JT-Shop: do you have 3 phase from the power co or are you using a large converter?
[16:47:44] <A2Sheds> mrsun: either you'll have to tune the system to accept that or have more precision in your mechanics or motor microsteps
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[16:48:46] <A2Sheds> or live with your system oscillating between the two steps
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[16:49:19] <ssi> I have encoders that I want to put on my lathe's steppers
[16:49:30] <ssi> for more precise homing and for follow error faults
[16:50:24] <mrsun> gah, can anyone name a place where i can buy components etc?
[16:50:31] <ssi> what kind of components?
[16:50:31] <mrsun> there is a page im looking for and now i remember, digikey: P
[16:51:20] <ssi> so does anyone have any insight into how emc's G76 threading cycle behaves with respect to thread depth in G7 or G8 mode?
[16:51:58] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: did you see what i said about the mill before you got kicked?
[16:52:03] <mrsun> what is best to use? incremental or absolute? :)
[16:52:14] <ssi> book says a 16tpi thread is .0338" deep, but that's WAY too shallow... so I think hey maybe in G7 diameter mode I should double it... and even doubled it's too shallow :/
[16:52:21] <JT-Shop> mrsun: not usually but possible
[16:52:23] <ssi> so wtf am I doing wrong :D
[16:53:58] <mrsun> capacitive, magnetic (feels like this should not be so good so close to motor windings?) mechanical or optical ? :)
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[16:54:25] <ssi> optical
[16:54:35] <ssi> I can maybe dig up the encoders I bought
[16:54:52] <mrsun> gah there is so many different types :P
[16:55:24] <mrsun> tacho, sine, quad with index, quad analog, quad incremental, octal, gray code, binary, bcd ....
[16:55:38] <ssi> quad with index :D
[16:56:35] <A2Sheds> mrsun: maybe it's time to spend some time reading the forums to see how all this works and about all the types of encoders and motor setups
[16:57:19] <ssi> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&site=us&keywords=102-1307-ND%09&x=0&y=0
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[16:58:39] <mrsun> ssi, only problem is that i do not have a motor with shaft on both sides :P
[16:58:55] <ssi> that is a problem
[16:59:13] <ssi> need to put it on your leadscrew somehow thens
[16:59:16] <ssi> that's more accurate anyway
[17:00:10] <mrsun> isnt alot of room for it anywhere =)
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[17:05:19] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[17:07:33] <JT-Shop> Danimal_garage: last thing I saw Danimal_garage he wants $1000 for it, i think i'm going to grab it
[17:08:02] <Danimal_garage> yea thats pretty much it
[17:08:13] <JT-Shop> what is the travel?
[17:08:21] <Danimal_garage> i'd prefer a vmc, but i just dont think i have the room
[17:08:32] <JT-Shop> mine is X18 Y12.5 Z16
[17:08:43] <Danimal_garage> probably close to the shizuoka which is 17x37
[17:08:53] <Danimal_garage> might be a few inches smaller
[17:09:12] <Danimal_garage> z is only 5.5 since it's a quill
[17:10:00] <Danimal_garage> he had a smaller vmc there, but it's too tall to fit in my garage door
[17:11:37] <JT-Shop> nice size then
[17:11:37] <JT-Shop> mine is a bit small sometimes
[17:13:03] <Danimal_garage> my parts are only 7.5 inches in diameter, max
[17:13:33] <Danimal_garage> i'd prefer a smal machine
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[17:17:50] <JT-Shop> I'm back, wanna hot dog?
[17:18:22] <JT-Shop> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6x18-Boyar-Schultz-H618-Surface-Grinder-w-Dust-Collecto-/170583907631
[17:29:39] <Tom_itx> hotdog and beer
[17:30:56] <JT-Shop> good idea, I forgot about the beer
[17:32:43] <Tom_itx> mmm chili cheese dog with fries
[17:32:53] <Tom_itx> oh and .. beer
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[17:35:55] <IchGucksLive> hi all ->FAST RECOVERY RECTIFIER <- what is this a Diode ?
[17:36:04] <IchGucksLive> FR307
[17:37:40] <cradek> yes
[17:37:40] <A2Sheds> yes, a diode
[17:38:41] <Tom_itx> a fast one
[17:38:46] <Tom_itx> shottky etc
[17:39:15] <A2Sheds> people tend to oversimplify and think of a diode as a one way device, that's not entirely true when you're working with AC signals
[17:39:29] <A2Sheds> esp at higher frequencies
[17:40:11] <Danimal_garage> did you get it JT-Shop?
[17:40:27] <Loetmichel> A2Sheds: define higher frequencies ;-)
[17:41:40] <Loetmichel> a 1n4007 is at 10khz more of a resistor in both ways... but a 1n4148 should do some 10^3 times more ;-)
[17:42:20] <A2Sheds> that FR307 has a 500ns max. reverse recovery time
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[17:44:15] <IchGucksLive> Thanks all
[17:44:38] <IchGucksLive> i try to recpover the garbage from yesterdays china bolw up
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[17:47:13] <JT-Shop> Danimal_garage: not yet, the pictures?
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[17:55:56] <A2Sheds> I've had techs replace 1A diodes with 5A and wonder why they keep blowing, they did't realize they used a slower recovery diode in place of a fast device in a ~20khz circuit with harmonics
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[18:20:45] <IchGucksLive> A2Sheds: there are ultra fast diodes available but i never seen them used in driver circuits
[18:22:26] <IchGucksLive> most use the byv27/200
[18:27:42] <A2Sheds> heh, check this out, type: do a barrel roll ,in Google search, the screen will actually roll
[18:28:25] <Quack> can't you just put a cheap high voltage (low current) schottky diode in parallel with it to "speed things up"
[18:29:10] <Quack> IchGucksLive can you send me one of your PCB milling kits?
[18:29:18] <Quack> PCB routing*
[18:29:33] <IchGucksLive> its not a kit
[18:29:52] <IchGucksLive> i do this only for my education in the factory i work
[18:31:00] <IchGucksLive> does uf5404 equal FR304
[18:31:04] <IchGucksLive> fr307
[18:31:33] <Quack> where do you work?
[18:32:05] <IchGucksLive> at hager plastic wire channel system !
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[18:33:07] <A2Sheds> uf5404 is faster than the FR307
[18:34:18] <A2Sheds> IchGucksLive: so use them if you want
[18:34:55] <Quack> uhh the UF5404 has lower junction capacitance
[18:35:16] <Quack> that generally means faster responses across the board
[18:35:30] <IchGucksLive> if i can NOT get the money back from the chinese i will do so
[18:35:46] <A2Sheds> 50ns vs 500ns recovery
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[18:36:06] <A2Sheds> if the test conditions are apple to apples
[18:36:21] <Quack> interesting.......
[18:36:21] <IchGucksLive> they are here at 16 Eurocent
[18:36:38] <Quack> usually smaller Cj leads to faster responsiveness
[18:37:10] <A2Sheds> my Cj must be pretty high today
[18:39:16] <Quack> lol we were saying the same thing i'm sorry
[18:39:19] <Quack> i got mixed up
[18:39:51] <Quack> yeah the UF5404 has lower Cj and also is faster
[18:41:01] <Quack> generally bigger diodes (larger amps) are also slower diodes
[18:41:26] <A2Sheds> bbl
[18:41:28] <Quack> but other things play a role too obviously
[18:41:52] <Quack> IchGucksLive who is the audience that you teach (or design the kits for)?
[18:48:49] <IchGucksLive> tool makers and industrial mechanics
[18:49:45] <Quack> do you think i could urge you to turn one of your educational routers into a "kit"
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[18:53:25] <IchGucksLive> no
[18:53:59] <IchGucksLive> but i can give you the sketches and you can go to the next metal shop and build your own one
[18:59:54] <Quack> ok sure
[19:00:06] <Quack> yeah that would be great, especially if the cost is only 400 EU
[19:00:30] <Quack> Mr Lothar, how long do your Carbide bits last?
[19:02:09] <IchGucksLive> about 20m at 150mm/min 0,25 Deap FR4 at 30.000U
[19:02:25] <IchGucksLive> but we got a grinder for the bits
[19:02:38] <IchGucksLive> V-shape 0,3mm flat
[19:04:06] <Quack> so you can just grind them, and in a few minutes the bit can do another 20metres?
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[19:05:03] <IchGucksLive> i got about 100 of them in use and there are grindet in regular time as the students are on the mashine
[19:05:43] <IchGucksLive> grinding mashine education with cylindrical milling bit 3-teeth also to be grindet
[19:05:57] <IchGucksLive> oh now im out of my english !
[19:07:26] <Quack> you can speak german if you wish
[19:08:03] <Quack> can you please send me a picture of the "grinder for carbide bits"
[19:08:27] <Tom_itx> aren't those the 'white' stones?
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[19:18:12] <Quack> sie sprechen deutch, Mr Lothar
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[19:32:48] <tom3p> re the diodes, i just got 3 dozen FR604's from futurlec, only 22c each. i was going to use MUR ultrafast but they're > 1.50$ each (and lots better )
[19:34:08] <Quack> what are you guys using these diodes for?
[19:39:52] <tom3p> me? back emf on edm power module ( 100V 75A )
[19:40:24] <Quack> oh yeah basically a surging diode
[19:40:31] <Quack> to protect your FETs
[19:40:36] <Quack> or am i wrong?
[19:40:36] <tom3p> yep
[19:40:44] <Quack> oh ok and what FET are you using?
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[19:40:54] <Quack> just whatever it already has i suppose....
[19:41:10] <tom3p> irf604? no print here
[19:41:22] <Quack> oh international rectifier
[19:41:25] <Quack> yeah those are solid
[19:41:45] <tom3p> the diodes are fuses for them ;)
[19:43:49] <tom3p> oh heres a print irfp250 ( too low voltage :( 450 or better should be!
[19:45:01] <tom3p> still using ds0026 driver! ( out of production ) maybe icl7667 now
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[19:48:57] <jdhNC> an suggestions for a snubber diode for a 24v relay coil?
[19:52:03] <tom3p> in4004 last digit depends on current, 4 would be for typical 'ice cube'
[19:52:26] <tom3p> DC coil ;)
[19:52:57] <jdhNC> I think that's what I used, might have been a 1 though
[19:53:11] <jdhNC> any way to tell the difference?
[19:54:42] <tom3p> if you cant read it , i dunno
[19:55:06] <jdhNC> nothing readable on them
[19:57:35] <tom3p> the diameter is a rough estimate of current capability, you'd have to get mfctr docs to find these, try digikey & get a pdf from diodes incorporated for the 1n4001
[19:57:49] <tom3p> it should have infor on 4002 4004 400x
[19:58:10] <jdhNC> I'll just go with the bigger ones if they are both in there.
[20:06:54] <tom3p> well the pcb will have holes drilled for the diodes legs , and that changes with current capability, look first
[20:09:50] <jdhNC> I made the board, huge hole due to drilling with a 0.0625 end mill
[20:13:24] <tom3p> i lied, the x in 400x is voltage not current, but the diameter really is indicitive of current capability http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/1N4001-D.PDF
[20:13:36] <tom3p> so all 1n400x are 1 amp
[20:13:59] <jdhNC> any should be fine then
[20:14:58] <jdhNC> thanks for looking.
[20:22:32] <A2Sheds> hello and welcome back to Diode Talk.....
[20:23:38] <FinboySlick> Who's the host? Who's the host?
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[20:24:01] <A2Sheds> P. N. Junction
[20:24:38] <FinboySlick> Wasn't there a doping scandal about him?
[20:25:00] <A2Sheds> <rim shot>
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[20:32:35] <Quack> what "grinder" was IchGucksLive talking about earlier for his PCB Router carbido bits
[20:41:09] <tom3p> something like this i'd guess http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/426245_lg.jpg found in many shops, used to sharpen or make tools from blanks
[20:41:46] <Quack> hmm thanks
[20:43:24] <andypugh> PCW. Any luck with 7i49?
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[21:09:53] <PCW> I have to retry. I got a segv
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[21:14:33] <TekniQue> FinboySlick: hahaha, head on
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[21:21:55] <PCW> Have tp try the resolver a bit later, messing with 7I77 now
[21:22:05] <PCW> s/tp/to/
[21:28:55] <mrsun> has anyone tried one of these magnetic encoders with stepper motors etc?0
[21:29:03] <mrsun> saw this: http://www.renishaw.com/en/microstep-motor-uses-onaxis-magnetic-encoder-chip-for-size-sensitive-applications--10772
[21:29:07] <mrsun> where they use the type i mean
[21:29:13] <mrsun> so shouldnt be a problem to use them then ? :)
[21:31:04] <andypugh> They are used in throttle and EGR valve feedback applications in cars. They seem reliable.
[21:32:10] <A2Sheds> mrsun: unless you are building an RF welder or something else with lots of noise it should be fine
[21:33:39] <mrsun> i was thinking a like 10mm long magnet should be able to stick to the shaft of the motor and rotate with it :P
[21:33:49] <mrsun> even tho its not a two shaft motor =)
[21:34:02] <mrsun> ofc one could even do a uggly and glue it to the shaft :P
[21:40:13] <PCW> Andy your non-byte aligned data seems to work fine, we still have some discovery bugs in the 7I77 before we can test signed outputs
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[21:52:38] <andypugh> My bugs or your bugs?
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[22:14:33] <Tom_itx> haha diggin thru some boxes looking for something else i found some old Kennametal Milling and Turning slide calculators i forgot i had along with an Okuma pocket Operators manual :)
[22:15:25] <andypugh> I think I can operate pockets without a manual.
[22:15:37] <Tom_itx> give it a few years
[22:16:01] <Tom_itx> it's got M codes i'd never thought of
[22:16:31] <Tom_itx> pallet changer stuff probably
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[22:18:15] <Tom_itx> and an old Fadal operators manual
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[22:22:21] <Danimal_garage> PCW: thanks for fixing that 7i48, i didn't realize you repaired it.
[22:22:30] <Danimal_garage> What do i owe you?
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[22:24:30] <Danimal_garage> i have a new mill coming, i'll be using it for that
[22:24:53] <Danimal_garage> i also need a 5i2x and a board for gpio stuff
[22:25:27] <Danimal_garage> as well as a 5i20, 7i33, and 7i37 for a friend's machine
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[22:49:02] <jdhNC> I have a 5i20 and 7i37 waiting to be used, what's a 7i33?
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[23:00:38] <Danimal_garage> for servos
[23:01:19] <Danimal_garage> i have 2 machines to build this year, one of them is a mach 3 machine being converted to emc
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[23:03:04] <Danimal_garage> man, i have no motivation to work today
[23:05:53] <PCW> No charge
[23:08:19] <Danimal_garage> well i appreciate it, hopefully i can mae up for it with some orders soon
[23:09:04] <Danimal_garage> while you're here, i know i asked you before, but what would be a good card for someone who needs a lot on outputs?
[23:09:20] <Danimal_garage> assuming i'm running a 5i20 or something similar
[23:09:26] <Danimal_garage> gpio
[23:09:47] <andypugh> Define "a lot"
[23:10:21] <Danimal_garage> i use up quite a few with the toolchanger alone, and the new mill has the same toolchanger so i want to make surei have enouigh this time
[23:10:22] <Danimal_garage> hmm
[23:10:25] <Danimal_garage> give me a sec
[23:10:49] <Danimal_garage> 20ish?
[23:11:00] <Danimal_garage> plus a similar amount of inputs
[23:11:02] <andypugh> Inputs or outputs?
[23:11:15] <Danimal_garage> 20 of each
[23:11:27] <andypugh> 7i64 has 24 of each
[23:11:39] <Danimal_garage> ooohh
[23:11:43] <Danimal_garage> perfect
[23:12:39] <andypugh> Or a 7i70 and a 7i71 have 48 inputs and 48 outputs respectively.
[23:13:05] <Danimal_garage> might be a bit much
[23:13:15] <Danimal_garage> 24 and 24 would be awesome
[23:13:34] <andypugh> 7i70 + 7i71 costs exactly the same as a 7i64
[23:13:49] <andypugh> But are 28V rather than 48V rates
[23:14:01] <Danimal_garage> really, hmm
[23:14:26] <Danimal_garage> maybe i should just use the 7i70 and 71 then
[23:14:44] <Danimal_garage> it'll all be 24 volts or less
[23:14:55] <andypugh> Sorry, 32V. But only 300mA for each output pin (7i64 is 2.5A per pin)
[23:15:29] <Danimal_garage> ah
[23:15:32] <andypugh> Also, 7i64 inputs and outputs are all isolated.
[23:15:41] <Danimal_garage> ah
[23:15:43] <Danimal_garage> ok
[23:15:50] <Danimal_garage> 7i64 then
[23:16:12] <Danimal_garage> i just hope this machine has encoders instead of resolvers
[23:16:18] <andypugh> You can always add a 7i70 or 71 too.
[23:16:24] <Danimal_garage> i'm sick of dealing with resolvers
[23:16:28] <Danimal_garage> true
[23:16:32] <andypugh> What's wrong with Resolvers?
[23:17:05] <andypugh> (I plan to push the 7i49 resolver card driver today or tomorrow)
[23:17:28] <Tom_itx> mmm this must be the Okuma lathe book
[23:18:20] <Danimal_garage> didnt feel like buying pico resolver boards again
[23:18:50] <Danimal_garage> does the 7i49 eliminate the need for aditional cards?
[23:19:16] <Danimal_garage> the pico boards work awesome, i just would rather not drop $450 on them
[23:19:59] <Danimal_garage> sweet
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[23:21:23] <andypugh> Danimal_garage: $184 for 6 channels
[23:21:34] <Danimal_garage> not too bad
[23:21:41] <Danimal_garage> way cheaper than the pico option
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[23:27:11] <andypugh> Is it wrong to have lots of O<101> if / O<101> endifs in the same G-code file? ie, for every one of dozens of if/endif pairs to have the same O-number?
[23:27:53] <Danimal_garage> i dont even know what you just said :)
[23:28:18] <andypugh> ? It seems like a simple question, even if there is no simple answer
[23:28:49] <Danimal_garage> i dont know what an 0<101> is
[23:29:12] <andypugh> Never used if/endif in your g-code?
[23:29:21] <Danimal_garage> no
[23:29:54] <Danimal_garage> i'm not a cnc guy
[23:29:55] <andypugh> while/endwhile do/while? repeat/endrepeat?
[23:30:12] <Danimal_garage> nope, never heard of it
[23:30:37] <andypugh> You cut sprockets without loops? How on earth?
[23:30:50] <Danimal_garage> lol
[23:31:05] <Danimal_garage> is that bad?
[23:31:14] <andypugh> It's inconceivable
[23:31:19] <Tom_itx> for subroutines?
[23:31:32] <Danimal_garage> i use mastercam
[23:31:43] <Danimal_garage> whatever it outputs, i use lol
[23:31:45] <Tom_itx> yeah the cad cams just spit the code out
[23:31:53] <Tom_itx> i clean it up sometimes
[23:32:07] <Danimal_garage> i add stuff like g64's and whatnot
[23:32:17] <Danimal_garage> but for the most part, i just run it
[23:32:17] <Tom_itx> i fix my post so i don't have ot
[23:32:18] <Tom_itx> to
[23:33:25] <Tom_itx> haha jdhNC, just got a small mailer box in the mail so i can cut the stuff and stuff the box at the post
[23:33:29] <Tom_itx> if that made sense
[23:33:45] <Danimal_garage> i only have cnc machines as a necessity of making parts for money, i don't have a ton of interest in them
[23:33:51] <Danimal_garage> i'm more of a manual machine guy
[23:34:07] <Tom_itx> i think they're cool
[23:34:24] <andypugh> Danimal_garage: This G-code program will cut any sprocket, depending on the input values. (OK, so it needs a rotary table) http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,38/id,5176/lang,english/#5180
[23:35:04] <Tom_itx> i made a macro for generating sprockets for my cam once
[23:35:51] <Danimal_garage> i've been running manual machines for 14 years straight. i've only had some cnc experience for about 6 of those years, and that was mostly conversational controls, not g code
[23:36:49] <Danimal_garage> andypugh: i have a solidworks model where i only change the pitch diameter and do a circular patern to create a new tooth count
[23:37:04] <andypugh> Ah, well, you are more of a CNC guy than me then, I have used CNC for a total of about 20 hours.
[23:37:40] <Danimal_garage> the difference is you probably are interested in it
[23:37:56] <andypugh> Yes, that would be why I chose it as a hobby...
[23:38:07] <Danimal_garage> exactly :)
[23:38:17] <PCW> Well I cant get the resolver thing to work (it segvs)
[23:38:20] <andypugh> Actually, making a clock was the plan.
[23:38:34] <Danimal_garage> i chose it as a career so i do as little of it as possible
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[23:39:16] <PCW> maybe because I dont have the hardware setup, trying that next
[23:39:22] <andypugh> PCW can you leave it segv-ed, then cat /proc/modules then send me the dmesg?
[23:39:50] <Danimal_garage> ok i gotta restart this computer, it wont even play pandora anymore
[23:39:52] <Danimal_garage> brb
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[23:40:52] <andypugh> It works fine for me here, except for not having any hardware to work with.
[23:43:24] <Tom_itx> Danimal_garage, what do you use to post gcode from solidworks?
[23:44:26] <Tom_itx> andypugh, it's a hobby for me as well but it paid for my cad cam software
[23:49:03] <andypugh> For me the hobby seems to have mutated into writing drivers. I haven't touched the machine for weeks.
[23:49:23] <andypugh> (I have used the completed machine to make parts).
[23:50:01] <Tom_itx> i kinda wondered how you got roped into writing alot of the drivers
[23:50:17] <andypugh> Does anyone here have experience with White Metal (Babbitt) bearings? I am going to try to do the re-metalling of the Fire Engine engine myself.
[23:50:45] <Tom_itx> the only experience i have was on an old ford pickup years back
[23:51:04] <andypugh> OK, how did you do it?
[23:51:05] <Tom_itx> we ground one of the journals in vehicle and replaced one of the rods
[23:51:27] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure where the rod came from
[23:52:12] <andypugh> I am more intersted in the "casting new babbit onto the shells and machining" part of the process.
[23:52:37] <Tom_itx> and i'm not sure where the grinder came from either it belonged to an employer when i was quit a bit younger :)
[23:52:46] <Tom_itx> yeah i figured
[23:53:09] <Tom_itx> i don't know how they size them once they are cast onto the iron
[23:53:18] <andypugh> I guess you swapped for new shells, rather than re-metalled the old ones?
[23:53:31] <Tom_itx> i think so
[23:53:43] <andypugh> Ah, the white metal was direct on the rod?
[23:53:47] <Tom_itx> this was years ago
[23:53:50] <Tom_itx> yes
[23:54:04] <andypugh> I didn't know they did that
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[23:54:14] <Tom_itx> this one was i believe
[23:54:29] <andypugh> No reason it wouldn't work.
[23:54:44] <andypugh> The Dennis has brass half-shells.
[23:54:56] <Tom_itx> http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4556
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[23:57:14] <Tom_itx> maybe some tips there to help
[23:59:27] <andypugh> I can't figure out what they mean, really. I think I need pictures.