#emc | Logs for 2011-10-29

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[00:17:17] <Jymmm> grilled burger topped with beans and a fried egg
[00:18:16] <Jymmm> lil chopped red onion, pickled beets, and garlic cheese bread, and a beer =)
[00:19:27] <Jymmm> Hmmm, I'm not sure I like the sound of a "Maintenance Free Respirator" too much.
[00:21:09] <Valen> theres heaps of places that do cheap pcbs
[00:21:27] <Valen> http://iteadstudio.com/ is one of the cheaper ones
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[00:21:56] <Valen> http://dorkbotpdx.org/wiki/pcb_order is the one Danimal_garage|2 was talking about
[00:23:48] <andypugh> I have used http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html?cPath=185
[00:24:03] <andypugh> Cheaper still (10 for $10 rather than 8 for $15)
[00:25:28] <andypugh> dorkbotpdx are US-made, but that is not a major selling point to me, and makes them a lot further away for Valen
[00:25:49] <Valen> untill seed and itead came about they were cheaper though
[00:26:59] <Jymmm> http://www.goldphoenixpcb.com/singlepage.php?tg=specialprice
[00:27:49] <Jymmm> 100sqin $100
[00:29:50] <Tom_itx> i've used them several times
[00:30:38] <andypugh> Yeah, but Seeed was $10 for 40 square inches. (OK, so that was 10 x 4sqin boards)
[00:32:14] <Tom_itx> quality of itead isn't always there either
[00:32:30] <Tom_itx> and seeed is a bit seeedy at times
[00:32:32] <Jymmm> It was just bookmarked long ago
[00:32:39] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: how so?
[00:32:48] <Tom_itx> long long ago in a far away place?
[00:33:13] <andypugh> I was more than happy with the Seeed boards. Couldn't fault them.
[00:33:22] <Tom_itx> most are ok
[00:33:41] <Tom_itx> i've heard of more problems with itead though
[00:34:28] <Jymmm> http://batchpcb.com/index.php/Faq#Can%20I%20route%20exotic%20shapes
[00:34:34] <Tom_itx> generally if gp has a few bad spots they compensate with extra board
[00:34:47] <Tom_itx> batch uses GP
[00:34:49] <Tom_itx> Jymmm
[00:35:22] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: NFC, just more bookmarks circa 2009
[00:35:36] <Jymmm> whats gp ?
[00:35:44] <Tom_itx> Gold Phoenix
[00:35:48] <Jymmm> ah
[00:35:58] <Tom_itx> or the big oil giant
[00:35:59] <Jymmm> http://www.liquidpcb.org/
[00:36:12] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: BP you mean?
[00:36:17] <Tom_itx> err yeah
[00:36:21] <Tom_itx> sounds alike
[00:36:47] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: just like love, lust, they sound alike too ;)
[00:38:18] <Jymmm> finally found some goop (tm) in a squeeze tube for the car
[00:38:36] <Tom_itx> leave it in there long enough and it will be goo
[00:38:39] <Tom_itx> instead of goop
[00:39:12] <andypugh> What? I need a _fortran_ compiler for freeCAD?
[00:39:19] <Jymmm> Tat's why I wanted the squeeze tube (with screw o cap), instead of tub with easy tip over and fall off in the summer heat.
[00:40:44] <Jymmm> soap, alcohol pads, and the like never remove grease/grime if you have to change a tie or whatever, then gets on your clothes, steering wheel, seats, etc.
[00:40:51] <Jymmm> tire
[00:41:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: sudo apt-get install freecad?
[00:42:27] <andypugh> Mac
[00:42:46] <Jymmm> andypugh: fink
[00:42:50] <andypugh> And there is a Mac installer which works perfectly, but I want some of the newer features
[00:43:10] <Tom_itx> more advanced problems?
[00:45:15] <Jymmm> BBF almost complete!!!
[00:46:45] <Jymmm> But, running out of coals anyway, so eh.
[00:49:56] <Jymmm> BTW, these aren't bad looking, but only 1/2", not the typical 3/4" http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-heavy-duty-pry-bar-set-1654.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiNjc2MDgxMzYiLCJza3UiOiIxNjU0IiwiaXMiOiI1Ljk5IiwicHJvZHVjdF9pZCI6%0D%0AIjc1In0%3D%0D%0A&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4311b&utm_source=1003
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[00:51:29] * Tom_itx thinks Jymmm lives at harbor freight
[00:51:56] <emcrules_cad> Think a fanuc MPG will work on 3.3V?
[00:52:11] <Tom_itx> what's it rated for?
[00:52:16] <Tom_itx> use a level converter?
[00:52:25] <emcrules_cad> 5V
[00:55:53] <emcrules_cad> Yep it works!!!
[00:55:58] <Tom_itx> good
[00:56:19] <Danimal_garage|2> emcrules_cad: i have one, i think i run it off the mesa 7i42
[00:56:41] <Danimal_garage|2> it's an oldie though
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[01:00:50] <emcrules_cad> yeah they work fine on mesa. I had bought a panel mount CUI from digikey but seems to be DOA. had a few fanucs kicking around tried that on the usbkey and it worked.
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[03:07:43] <jp_> is axisui.jog.x read only?
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[03:13:47] <Danimal_garage|2> i think so
[03:15:19] <Tom_itx> fire up hal config and see
[03:15:51] <emcrules> Hal config wont play along with me
[03:17:06] <Tom_itx> ouptut
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[03:17:50] <emcrules> http://pastebin.com/Qua6y0sk
[03:18:39] <emcrules> emc runs fine just hal config hasn't been working for a bit
[03:19:22] <emcrules> on the sim sample config in my office
[03:24:38] <emcrules> any good idea why axis (GUI) mode selection wont follow what i select using halui?
[03:29:48] <atom1> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui_axis.html
[03:29:52] <atom1> not really
[03:30:29] <emcrules> Yeah i read that. Thanks Though.
[03:31:40] <Tom_itx> what do you need it for?
[03:31:48] <emcrules> just seems odd that if i use a pendant to set modes and axis that it would not reflect back in axis. if i change to TKemc it does
[03:32:29] <Tom_itx> i noticed some odd behavior with mine
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[03:32:42] <Tom_itx> haven't really had time to play enough to pinpoint it
[03:32:56] <emcrules> If i select X axis in manual mode on my pendant should i not be able to set the radio button in axis as well
[03:33:26] <Tom_itx> i'd have to get mine out and play with it
[03:35:09] <emcrules> The emc status screen shows that i changed to MDI but axis was still in manual as an example
[03:36:02] <Tom_itx> you have an mdi button on your pendant?
[03:36:17] <emcrules> yep i know WTF for right
[03:36:31] <Tom_itx> no i just didn't put one on mine
[03:37:10] <emcrules> i plan to have a nice big kepad membrane around a 15" monitor so i dont need a keyboard
[03:40:23] <emcrules> love to get it to the point where it's like using a mill pwr control
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[03:47:18] <Tom_itx> got any pics of yours?
[03:50:48] <emcrules> the pendant?
[03:51:00] <Tom_itx> yeah
[03:52:19] <emcrules> no not yet im machining the housing this week
[03:53:15] <emcrules> and still waiting on my teensys to come for the build
[03:53:23] <Tom_itx> i made a quick one so i could have a starting point. started a cad model and i'm just not quite happy with it
[03:53:43] <emcrules> the amtel key sucks for anything long term
[03:54:04] <Tom_itx> roll your own
[03:55:02] <emcrules> yeah but im just don't have the finesse for soldering that stuff
[03:55:19] <Tom_itx> use a frying pan
[03:55:50] <emcrules> plus im building a router right now as well so i have to pick my battles
[03:55:59] <Tom_itx> i know the feeling
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[04:01:55] <emcrules> i like the avr for the pendants it works quite well
[04:02:30] <Tom_itx> i didn't really see the need other than maybe the lcd but i decided not to put one on mine
[04:02:50] <Tom_itx> i figured i would be watching the workpiece most of the time i was using it anyway
[04:03:00] <Tom_itx> and for the rest i can see the pc screen
[04:03:40] <emcrules> the lcd is great. it removes the need for a bunch of leds
[04:05:04] <emcrules> coupled with a keypad it's a real i/o saving approach and 10X the functionality
[04:05:42] <emcrules> ttyl have a good night
[04:05:47] <Tom_itx> you too
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[04:27:15] <Valen> I'm going to try and get the xbox controller as the pendant happening
[04:28:48] <CBLACK10> Anyone know if I can make axis switch from joint to world mode after all joints are homed? Maybe using a hal component?
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[09:36:22] <elmo40> so Google is gonna make more billions (not that I blame them, just saying) http://arst.ch/rdt
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[10:10:03] <awallin_> elmo40: start using and contributing to openstreetmap? although I don't know who runs their servers? maybe we should all run an openstreetmap server on our home machines just to be sure?
[10:32:32] <awallin_> check this: https://picasaweb.google.com/106188605401091280402/20111029#5668858079557771218
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[11:16:37] <mrsun> ordered fittings for central oil system for the mini mill =)
[11:16:39] <mrsun> wee
[11:17:45] <mrsun> need to get this mill up and running soon :P
[11:18:36] <mrsun> got so much i need to build and the mill would make it alot easier to do :P
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[13:02:54] <mrsun> gah thinking of buying ballscrews for the mill also =)
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[13:06:15] <syyl_> oneshot oiler, mrsun?
[13:06:23] <mrsun> syyl_, thats the name =)
[13:06:27] <syyl_> added it to my mill a few weeks ago
[13:06:30] <syyl_> its great :)
[13:06:42] <mrsun> yeah, as its hard to get the oil to the slides otherwise
[13:06:42] <syyl_> one pull, whole machine lubricated
[13:06:51] <mrsun> and yeah fully lubricated in one pull =)
[13:07:11] <mrsun> cut oil groves etc in the slides also to make the oil go where i want it =)
[13:08:04] <syyl_> same here :D
[13:08:36] <syyl_> i went for the cheap system from arceurotrade
[13:08:43] <syyl_> with that pump
[13:08:44] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-09-25_20-54-51_237.jpg
[13:08:47] <syyl_> it works fine
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[13:44:07] <JT-Shop> YEA! RedBirds :)
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[14:03:36] <JT-Shop> it's almost cold enough for a small fire in the shop but I might have to open the door...
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[15:07:31] * mrsun is finaly starting to get a pretty good dot pattern on the slide =)
[15:07:45] <mrsun> and it has finaly stopped making a scratchy sound when pulled back and forth
[15:08:47] <mrsun> could use some precision ground rod to check for dovetail straightness tho =)
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[15:12:45] <mrsun> hmm its only the dovetail that doesnt have the gib that needs to be perfectly straight right? :)
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[15:12:53] <mrsun> the table that mates to it and the side without gib
[15:13:10] <mrsun> so if i fix the table, use table as guide to get the other side of dovetail straight i should be ok? :)
[15:20:08] <JT-Shop> step #A move CHNC in front of garage door... check
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[15:27:40] * JT-Shop is temped to go for it in the morning
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[16:09:08] <JT-Shop> is the 5i20 + 7i46 + up to 6 7i64's supported by EMC?
[16:09:27] <JT-Shop> + a 7i33
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[16:13:48] <JT-Shop> nevermind
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[16:56:44] <Jymmm> Is neutral and ground (technically) the same in an extension cord that's plugged into the wall? Like would I get shocked/ pop a breaker if I shorted them together?
[16:57:57] <Tom_itx> no
[16:58:10] <Tom_itx> unless your buddy wired it
[16:58:11] <Jymmm> no to which?
[16:58:18] <Tom_itx> then neutral and hot would be reversed
[16:58:29] <Tom_itx> use one of those fancy plugin led thingies to test it
[16:58:46] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, just say no
[16:59:09] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'm trying to come up with a semi-safe way to use an extension cord for 12vdc operation
[16:59:34] <Tom_itx> neutral and GND are wired to the same buss bar in the breaker box
[16:59:47] <Tom_itx> which also has a GND rod tied to it
[17:00:18] <Tom_itx> GND isn't supposed to be a current carrying circuit
[17:00:36] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Ok, so if I wired a battery to neutral/ground on the far end, then someone accidentally pugged it into the wall, it wouldn't do anything?
[17:00:51] <Jymmm> (fuse in there somewhere)
[17:01:15] <Tom_itx> use a 3 pronged plug
[17:01:18] <Tom_itx> problem solved
[17:01:41] <Jymmm> 12/3 extion cord
[17:02:05] <Jymmm> but 12v adapter using netural/ground for the wiring
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[17:04:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: My generator has a 12V battery charger built in. Instead of making a long cord, I thought a 12/3 extension cord plus a couple of pigtail adapters might be nice.
[17:04:31] <Tom_itx> ok
[17:04:42] <Tom_itx> so what's stopping ya?
[17:05:25] <Jymmm> Well, I justed to come up with a semi-safe way to do it incase someone thinks it's 110vac line and plugs it into the wrong place
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[17:06:11] <Tom_itx> if the plug fits.. it works. Right?
[17:06:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I wasn't sure if netural/ground would be safe or not to use
[17:06:57] <Tom_itx> should be ok unless a circuit is old and doesn't have the gnd run
[17:07:10] <Jymmm> ok, then what?
[17:07:37] <Tom_itx> a 3 prong plug won't fit
[17:07:43] <Tom_itx> other than that not muc
[17:07:45] <Tom_itx> h
[17:07:55] <Jymmm> OH! REALLY old ones.
[17:08:12] <Jymmm> No no I'm nt worried about that, as much as blowing somethign up
[17:08:26] <Jymmm> if someone plugs it in the wrong place
[17:09:42] <Jymmm> I thought about just reversing the polarity, but then the plug could get shorted if it landed on metal.
[17:10:10] <Jymmm> (ie, no way to plug it into something)
[17:12:05] <Tom_itx> long as the fat lead is gnd it should be ok
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[18:20:09] <skunkKandT> chirp chirp
[18:20:29] <skunkKandT> 1/2 hour cycle times seem to give me a bit of down time
[18:20:50] * skunkKandT should optimize the gcode a little
[18:21:18] <skunkKandT> I really don't think I would gain too much. it is mostly cutting time
[18:21:29] <skunkKandT> and I am a chicken
[18:21:54] <jdhNC> turn it up to 11
[18:22:07] <archivist> oil it
[18:22:36] <Tom_itx> just depends how many you have to make
[18:22:55] <skunkKandT> I am just glad I don't have to babysit it too much...
[18:23:02] <skunkKandT> only 6 more or so
[18:23:03] <Tom_itx> watch the tool path and notice what can be changed and the line numbers
[18:23:08] <skunkKandT> 18 total
[18:23:29] <Tom_itx> do it anyway... good learning experience
[18:23:39] <skunkKandT> 5 different tools
[18:23:50] * skunkKandT hugs emc again
[18:24:02] <skunkKandT> emc is starting to feel uncomfortable..
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[19:27:16] * skunkKandT loves rigid tapping...
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[19:52:12] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Those toolpaths you made for me, what was the CAM? Someone has commented on my video that they think it looks like MeshCAM. Kind of scary if they are right...
[20:03:38] <skunkKandT> he has mentioned what cam he uses - I just don't remember - meshcam doesn;t sound righ
[20:03:53] <skunkKandT> right
[20:10:09] <pcw_home> Hi Andy, haven't tried the sserial patch yet but will on Monday.
[20:10:12] <pcw_home> Busy cleaning up HM2 source trying to get the number of warnings down to a dull roar
[20:13:12] <pcw_home> I missed a bug in the 5I25 code because it was lost in 100s of warnings...
[20:17:31] <andypugh> I think the EMC2 side is done. It doesn't feel finished, but I can't think of anything left to do. It's a bit odd really.
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[20:26:14] <pcw_home> Will it deal with non byte data sizes? (the 7I77 analog outs are signed 14 bit numbers)
[20:28:05] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I use OneCNC
[20:28:21] <pcw_home> The fact that HAL has no char type also makes the byte stream stuff awkward
[20:29:20] <andypugh> pcw_home: It can handle any width, on any alignment.
[20:30:13] <pcw_home> OK good, the 7I77 has 6 14 bit signed numbers sardined plus 2 1 bit booleans
[20:30:41] <andypugh> You can wrap a 47 bit signal from bit 29 of user0 to bit 13 of user2 if you want.
[20:30:56] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: when using the 7i76 with analog inputs could it read the 0-10v straight from the plasma?
[20:31:25] <andypugh> JT-Shop: From the EMC2 side the answer is yes.
[20:32:00] <JT-Shop> that would be neat I think
[20:32:12] <pcw_home> Sort of, its not very high res (8 bits) and has a 33V full scale so you would want your divider to provide ~30V
[20:32:18] <andypugh> But it's an 8-bit 0-33 (?) V signal, so not very high resolution.
[20:33:18] <JT-Shop> just thinking out loud
[20:33:56] <pcw_home> its there just as a side effect (the digital input bits are actual read as analog values and processed into bits)
[20:33:59] <JT-Shop> could feed the frequency from the THCAD to the encoder input on the 7i76?
[20:34:06] <pcw_home> Sure
[20:34:16] <pcw_home> its just a standard encoder
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[20:38:40] <pcw_home> But theres no reason not to try the analog input, heck even 6 bits is better than the "too high/ too low" you get from comparator type torch height controls
[20:40:27] <JT-Shop> so do I need to try and boost the 0-10vdc up to 0-30vdc somehow?
[20:41:52] <JT-Shop> I have a bootable usb stick with freedos if I need it...
[20:43:51] <pcw_home> your torch has a 0-10V output?
[20:44:38] <JT-Shop> yes
[20:47:11] <andypugh> Well, try it and see. Otherwise an op-amp is simple enough
[20:47:25] <pcw_home> I'd probably just live with the .13V or so resolution (so about 4V resolution with 0-300V full scale)
[20:48:58] <JT-Shop> ok, I'll give it a whirl when I change it over
[20:49:12] <pcw_home> or divide the raw torch voltage down with a 200K or so series resistor
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[20:50:15] <pcw_home> (7I76 input impedance is ~22K)
[20:50:18] <JT-Shop> nope I was having a sometimers moment it is full voltage
[20:50:32] <JT-Shop> 300vdc maximum
[20:51:00] <JT-Shop> so yea I would need to divide it down to 0-30vdc
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[20:51:19] <pcw_home> OK so something like 200K series resistor is about right
[20:51:35] <Jordinar> Hello, can someone tell me whether EMC2 supports MESA 8I20 + 7I44 Daughter Card to control a (servo) motor? (whether this combination is supported, in general)
[20:52:28] <skunkKandT> Jordinar: you picked a good time to ask...
[20:52:38] <JT-Shop> lol
[20:53:01] <Jordinar> really? and the answer is ... ? ;)
[20:53:17] <skunkKandT> wait for it..
[20:53:30] <skunkKandT> wait
[20:54:40] <Jordinar> any info about current state (maybe works in development versions?), or an eta? days, weeks, months? (sorry, I don't know much about the hardware yet)
[20:55:27] <JT-Shop> there is a FAQ on the forum that has all the combinations
[20:56:28] <skunkKandT> What is the 8i20?
[20:56:59] <JT-Shop> Jordinar: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,27/id,1325/lang,english/
[20:57:02] <Jordinar> you mean this: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,27/id,1325/lang,german/ ?
[20:57:08] <skunkKandT> pcw_home: is the mesa expert owner..
[20:57:09] <Jordinar> ah ok, yes, you mean this.
[20:57:38] <JT-Shop> yes
[20:57:49] <pcw_home> There are some brave pioneers running 8I20s with EMC now. Theres a fair learning curve (you will learn a lot about permanent magnet synchronous motors)
[20:58:34] <Jordinar> I'm not sure how to read the combinations in this faq .., but after reading I'd say 8i20 + 7i44 works?
[20:59:20] <pcw_home> Yep but needs EMC 2.5
[21:00:24] <Jordinar> 2.5 is current development branch?
[21:00:34] <Jordinar> think so ... as 2.4.6 is markes as stable
[21:01:09] <JT-Shop> 2.5 is in the process of being released... the current development is in master
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[21:05:41] <pcw_home> Andy I have some ideas on better error reporting from SSLBP
[21:05:43] <pcw_home> I think its probably better not to revert SSERIAL I/O to GPIO on failure to start but rather bail with an error
[21:05:45] <pcw_home> (and use the SSLBP error byte and remote error byte to specify the error)
[21:07:20] <pcw_home> When you had the initial problem with the 7I76 not starting at 8V its possible to report "remote low voltage error"
[21:08:21] <pcw_home> This would make it easier for the user to debug, rather than just finding missing HAL pins later
[21:08:21] <Jordinar> Which mechanism could be used to determine motor positioning with 7I44?
[21:09:19] <pcw_home> Initial position or running position?
[21:09:35] <Jordinar> Running
[21:09:51] <pcw_home> Encoder feedback to EMC
[21:11:59] <andypugh> pcw_home: Last time I experimented with base 2.5 the 7i76 was not recognised ("unknown card type 7i76)", but the pins stayed as sslbp. Which was a small surprise.
[21:12:28] <andypugh> Jordinar: 7i44 is just a breakout board really.
[21:13:46] <Jordinar> and this means in regard to my last question? I think I'd need to connect an encoder there.
[21:13:50] <andypugh> pcw_home: Well, the 7i76 status is available in EMC2.
[21:14:40] <andypugh> (As in, I could have spotted the low-voltage bit, if I had looked0
[21:14:57] <pcw_home> What I am saying is that for example with a missing card or remote fault, EMC should bail and report the fault (as text)
[21:16:51] <andypugh> pcw_home: Yes, I see your point. I will look at the sequence and see what the opportunities are.
[21:17:17] <pcw_home> the latest SSLBP firmware (V29) will report remote faults without a doit which should make this easier
[21:17:47] <andypugh> But would you want to require them to "x-out" any un-connected channels?
[21:18:10] <pcw_home> that is you issue a normal start wait for start if a channel does not start, fail and report the error
[21:18:45] <pcw_home> I think its better to fail in a obvious way that to just end up with missing HAL pins
[21:18:52] <pcw_home> than to
[21:23:24] <pcw_home> Yeah its somewhat in conflict with fully auto-detect, I'm not sure what is best but if a channel is enabled and doesnt work it seems
[21:23:26] <pcw_home> best to report the channel error in detail and not start EMC
[21:29:06] <andypugh> Users seem really skilled at not seeing the error messages, and just saying "EMC2 crashed"
[21:30:24] <skunkKandT> That is when you sneer at them and point out where the error is. ;)
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[21:31:03] <pcw_home> I guess you could have the best of both worlds if you parsed the error correctly (ignore missing devices but report errors and bail on remote faults)
[21:31:05] <pcw_home> Yeah EMCs error logging could be nicer
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[21:32:27] <andypugh> skunkKandT: My worry is all those who "crash" then we don't get to sneer at, but give up.
[21:32:46] <skunkKandT> sure.
[21:33:43] <pcw_home> one way of looking at this is if you can do a succsessful setup start, theres a remote card there
[21:33:45] <pcw_home> if a normal start fails at this point, then bail and report the error
[21:34:58] <pcw_home> so now its fully auto (enable missing cards wont cause a bail)
[21:35:00] <pcw_home> only existing cards with a problem will cause a bail
[21:35:21] <pcw_home> s/enable/probe/
[21:40:36] <JT-Shop> it's final I'm cutting power to the CHNC and moving it into the shop in the morning
[21:41:38] <andypugh> pcw_home: Yes, that seems sensible.
[21:42:21] <andypugh> Though I am not sure that the hm2 driver _can_ kill EMC2 after the setup stage is over.
[21:42:59] <andypugh> So, I might need to add a final "check status" cycle
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[21:43:28] <pcw_home> well maybe not bail but just issue the appropriate error
[21:48:18] <pcw_home> I think currently theres a bootstrap problem with 8I20s which bailing would make worse
[21:48:19] <pcw_home> ( You need VBUS to start a 8I20 but if VBUS is switched on by a ESTOP circuit controlled by EMC you need to defer starting the 8I20 until EMC is running)
[21:48:22] <pcw_home> we may have to fix this in 8I20 firmware)
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[21:50:48] <andypugh> pcw_home: Hmm, yes, I need to look at that sequencing.
[21:51:34] <andypugh> It's just a case of linking .....port-N.run with amp-enable, but the docs don't mention it.
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[21:54:55] <mrsun> yeey found why the mill binds up
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[21:55:33] <mrsun> the freakin gib thingie is to thin, so it twisted and went against a very jagged edge insted of being in the dovetail like it should =)
[21:55:58] <andypugh> Jordinar: You will probably need this component to use an 8i20: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/2.5/html/man/man9/bldc.9.html I am aware it probably asks more questions than it answers
[21:56:57] <andypugh> mrsun: You saw that youtube with the scraping guy? He wasn't impressed with the twisted Gib either
[21:57:13] <mrsun> hmm, didnt notice that
[21:57:25] <mrsun> the dovetails are to small on the machine
[21:57:31] <pcw_home> Andypugh OK if thats possible it should be fine
[21:57:34] <pcw_home> (note that any time you restart a channel the first doit may fail timing so the first error should be ignored)
[21:57:35] <Jordinar> I already used the bldc component, with different cards. so it should be ok, although most things about this aren't self-explaining, but thank you.
[21:57:39] <mrsun> they should have been like 5mm higher or something
[21:58:31] <andypugh> pcw_home: We already ignore 6 cycles of errors
[21:58:43] <pcw_home> after a start?
[21:58:55] <mrsun> andypugh, isnt so much the gib that is twisted as the gib twisting from the tightening screws
[21:58:56] <andypugh> After first do-it
[21:59:08] <mrsun> so insted of following the angle it goes more straight up
[21:59:23] <pcw_home> OK 1 should be sufficient
[22:00:34] <andypugh> I was using the students' Colchester Student most of today (making a tappet guide for their 1916 Dennis). Once again I was reminded just how far off being a proper machine tool my Chinese lathe is.
[22:01:09] <mrsun> put a small piece of paper that was folded a couple of times in a part of the gib to make it not twist and it doesnt bind up at all anymore =)
[22:01:27] <mrsun> so now i can make it real tight without binding, so i guess making a new gib is the next project =)
[22:02:08] <pcw_home> Is it just too flimsy or what?
[22:02:47] <mrsun> to thin and the tightening screws in the wrong position =)
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[22:03:04] <mrsun> putting preasure at the wrong place, the preasure ends up right at the edge of the dovetail
[22:04:00] <andypugh> I don't like the Gibs with little screws. Surely all the cutting force goes through the little screws? The tapered ones are far better, but much harder to retrofit. I did retrofit tapered keepers to my lathe saddle though: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5397761515711545458 and following
[22:06:08] <andypugh> Of course, that mainly served to show that the bed thickness varies, though scraping the paint off the bearing surfaces helped.
[22:06:59] <andypugh> The original keepers were just cast-iron plates with the screws not quite tight..
[22:08:36] <mrsun> http://i40.tinypic.com/wteic7.png <-- ends up like that
[22:09:44] <pcw_home> Ouch!
[22:10:19] <pcw_home> Andypugh Sounds like you almost be better off with the raw castings (a lathe kit)
[22:10:21] <mrsun> noticed by accident when there was a strange line int he gib when i examined it
[22:10:23] <andypugh> Any scope for making two gibs in a "folding wedge" sort of way?
[22:10:30] <JT-Shop> make some shims to go behind the gib
[22:10:49] <mrsun> JT-Shop, think im gonna make new gibs that is thicker in brass or something insted =)
[22:11:02] <JT-Shop> there you go
[22:11:25] <pcw_home> bbl store run
[22:12:35] <mrsun> with the little shim i put there i could tighten the screws ALOT before the table got realy hard to move
[22:12:37] <mrsun> but never bound up
[22:13:07] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop is that the last big piece you have to move?
[22:13:32] <JT-Shop> no, the VMC and the BP knee mill are to follow
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[22:14:05] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Do you want a rather nice Ormerod Shaper? Free to a good home.
[22:14:23] <JT-Shop> I'm guessing it is a bit far from me?
[22:14:53] <andypugh> But the cheapness compensates surely?
[22:15:18] <JT-Shop> I'm thinking a 150 quart cooler and a pump will be the ticket for my plasma table water storage
[22:19:08] <JT-Shop> while I'd love to have a shaper so my friends can say "what is that?" I'm sure it is closer to you than me...
[22:19:28] <Tom_itx> heh
[22:19:43] <Tom_itx> is that what i think it is?
[22:19:53] <KimK> andypugh: Does it have a universal knee?
[22:20:21] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I moved the CHNC a few feet this morning with the 6 ton rollers and is was a piece of cake
[22:20:43] <andypugh> KimK: No, keyed to 4 positions
[22:21:11] <KimK> andypugh: Ah, OK. Nevermind then. Thanks though.
[22:22:21] <mrsun> ofc this problem could also be helped by adding a piece to the bottom of the table, but .. feels like alot of working getting it right =)
[22:23:59] <andypugh> KimK: (And JT-Shop, you know you want it really) https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5669043105375949586
[22:24:10] <andypugh> (and the previous)
[22:25:05] <andypugh> Sorry, no, not the previous, the next. The previous is different, and is in fact a mate of mine after his brain surgery.
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[22:25:45] <JT-Shop> pick up I assume
[22:26:04] <andypugh> I would deliver at your expense :-)
[22:26:07] <JT-Shop> would be neat to CNC that for sizing material
[22:26:23] <andypugh> It takes a big cut
[22:26:39] <JT-Shop> but you can't come over here... your an outlaw
[22:27:05] <JT-Shop> yes, I've played with a similar one a long time ago
[22:27:11] <Tom_itx> only outlaws are allowed?
[22:27:16] <Tom_itx> what about inlaws?
[22:27:46] <KimK> When shapers are outlawed, only outlaws will have shapers?
[22:27:56] <JT-Shop> inlaw is all ready here... I just have to keep her from burning down the house when she cooks
[22:28:04] <Tom_itx> haha
[22:28:26] <JT-Shop> I have to hid the plantains out here in my shop from her
[22:28:32] <JT-Shop> hide
[22:29:00] <JT-Shop> she is 85 and the memory thing is getting to her
[22:29:52] <mrsun> damn they want alot for powerscrapers =)
[22:29:53] <andypugh> I made a huge error in applying for my visa, I assumed competence in the US government, that they had end-to-end ways to transmit data, and thus lying was dangerous. I have since realised that there is absolutely no way that the immigration service could ever have got any info from the courts service, and that a simple lie would have saved everyone a bunch of trouble.
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[22:31:09] <andypugh> Heck, the part of the immigration service which said they had the info they needed for me to re-appy didn't tell the re-applying department.
[22:32:04] <andypugh> Next step is the Chinese immigration service. I _do_ hope they don't ask the same questions...
[22:32:24] <Tom_itx> andypugh just come in from the south. anybody can get in there
[22:32:50] <andypugh> The crazy thing is, I am sailing in and going straight home/
[22:34:01] <JT-Shop> I don't have a lot of faith in the competency of government employees from the top down... there are some exceptions I'm sure...
[22:34:30] <Tom_itx> few
[22:34:36] <KimK> andypugh: I'll send your photo link to the fellow who was looking for a shaper with a universal knee, you never know? Could you give me something for scale in that photo, maybe the table size or max stroke or something?
[22:35:01] <andypugh> KimK: I am in the UK....
[22:35:23] <KimK> andypugh: Yes, I remember
[22:35:43] <andypugh> OK, so the guy wanting a shaper is in the UK too?
[22:35:49] <KimK> Scrap metal ships cheap
[22:37:03] <KimK> I presume this thing is junk?
[22:37:19] <KimK> Or needs work?
[22:37:36] <andypugh> It needs a motor, but the slides are good.
[22:38:03] <andypugh> We reconditioned it a few years ago, but my dad doesn't need two shapers.
[22:38:30] <andypugh> However, it is too good to throw away.
[22:38:48] <JT-Shop> see if robh needs one
[22:38:57] <mrsun> if it wasnt so expensive to ship i would buy it :P
[22:39:02] <andypugh> It's all tight and smooth
[22:39:05] <mrsun> shapers seems nice =)
[22:39:48] <mrsun> ooo 2000sek for a shaper in sundsvall :P
[22:40:40] <mrsun> atleast there is some in sweden also =)
[22:40:52] <mrsun> when i get the garage more empty i might very well buy one =)
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[22:44:55] <andypugh> My dad has an Elliot 10M too, and that takes up less workshop space: http://www.lathes.co.uk/shapers/index.html
[22:46:16] <andypugh> The nice thing about shapers is that the tooling is very cheap, and you can sharpen with a bench grinder.
[22:47:42] <Tom_itx> looks like UK changes their time tonight
[22:48:02] <andypugh> Though planers are even better (same process, moving workpiece) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4kPDhrhlgk
[22:48:18] <Tom_itx> US is next week
[22:49:25] <andypugh> Ah, yes, That means I get an extra hour to sleep,
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[22:49:41] <skunkKandT> we finally scrapped our planer.. It was never put back together - still had flat belts for power. would have been a solid machine to make a cnc out of
[22:50:25] <skunkKandT> Too many projects
[22:50:29] <andypugh> The one in the youtube clip is pretty big. It also seems to have two cutter heads (which makes sense)
[22:50:58] <skunkKandT> the table on ours was around 24" by 6ft iirc
[22:51:15] <skunkKandT> maybe about 2ft for z
[22:51:19] <andypugh> Most of the really big ones got converted to plano-mills (same frame, but with a rotary cutter)
[22:52:45] <JT-Shop> faster cut I assume with a rotary cutter
[22:52:54] <andypugh> My dad recalls how boring they were when used to machine gear-box mating surfaces. 20 minutes of ....cutcutcutcutcutcutcutcutcutcutucutcutcut.... then a few hours of ...cut.................................cut.....
[22:53:16] <JT-Shop> and lots of click click click
[22:53:38] <Tom_itx> at least you know the cutter isn't broke
[22:53:45] <JT-Shop> LOL
[22:54:04] <andypugh> Mainly that with a rotary cutter you don't cut air for most of the shift. you can cut in the Y too.
[22:55:01] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,12/id,14402/lang,english/#14402
[22:55:40] <andypugh> This was at David Brown. They make _big_ gearboxes. They have a horizontal borer you could use to put circular windows in a bungalow.
[22:57:15] <skunkKandT> JT-Shop: I would first try G64Psomething
[22:57:25] <JT-Shop> yea
[22:58:35] <JT-Shop> I'm going to try and lead him to read a page or two first :)
[23:00:37] <andypugh> Can we persuade him to hob the gears instead
[23:02:49] <MattyMatt> isn't a stray F change most likely?
[23:05:40] <MattyMatt> or maybe he has his accel so low that short moves are all slowed
[23:06:12] <skunkKandT> if those are short line segments - emc tries to touch each one during normal g64 and it has to be able to stop at each end point. With g64psomething - it combines the line segments into longer ones.
[23:07:16] <MattyMatt> it looks like that's 2 teeth of moves to me. all sharp corners
[23:07:36] <skunkKandT> ew - that might be an issue
[23:09:19] <skunkKandT> raising the acceleration would help also
[23:09:55] <MattyMatt> he needs to show more code, anyway
[23:09:56] <JT-Shop> looks like an arc line arc line so acceleration and naive cam detector will help that a lot
[23:10:18] <JT-Shop> wood gears!
[23:10:53] <JT-Shop> iirc only G64Pn invoke the naive cam detector :?
[23:11:11] <skunkKandT> yes
[23:11:17] <skunkKandT> if I understand it right
[23:11:54] <MattyMatt> I'm still making plywood gears myself, but only as trial runs before I start expending delrin
[23:12:00] <JT-Shop> I sure was glad when jepler added arcs to it so my plasma could fly at 500IPM with tiny little arc line combos
[23:12:29] <skunkKandT> I think though... That the naive cam detector only spits a arc into 2 line segments * if the 2 line segments are within the p tolerence.
[23:16:28] <JT-Shop> yea, but that made a huge difference in cutting artsy fartsy stuff on the plasma... before the whole table would shake after smooth cutting
[23:18:22] <skunkKandT> sure
[23:18:33] <MattyMatt> repraps got 5x faster this year with sth similar
[23:18:50] <MattyMatt> single lookahead
[23:19:56] <MattyMatt> next stage is lokahead a certain distance rather than a fixed number of segments, but arduino's ram becomes a problem
[23:20:36] <MattyMatt> and fpu performance
[23:20:44] <MattyMatt> (non existent)
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[23:23:59] <MattyMatt> I'm putting a DB-25 on my arduino, so I can do direct comparison of reprap firmware vs emc2
[23:24:01] <andypugh> Well, I tried loading that code (needed G90.1) and the segment posted is a series of ver short arcs and longer linear moves, that might be part of one flank of a gear, or might not.
[23:24:37] <MattyMatt> it's not, the I & J are too close. they'd be miles away if the G2 were near-straight
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[23:25:39] <andypugh> The I, J only work in G90.1
[23:26:26] <andypugh> (and I had to delete the first line as you can't arc without a strt)
[23:26:53] <MattyMatt> he needs to show the whole code. it's silly trying to guess
[23:28:22] <andypugh> http://imagebin.org/181505
[23:29:01] <JT-Shop> that's a tiny arc in the middle of the line
[23:29:20] <JT-Shop> is he mm or inch?
[23:29:23] <andypugh> Indeed, it makes little sense that way
[23:29:39] <andypugh> mm I assume
[23:30:04] <JT-Shop> yea, doesn't say where he is located
[23:30:18] <andypugh> The left-side line is the move from assumed zero
[23:30:29] <JT-Shop> CHCN is lined up with the garage door and ready to go :)
[23:30:56] <andypugh> But yes, it could be relative arcs and imperial, and the arc centre errors might be masked in imperial
[23:31:14] <JT-Shop> could be
[23:36:12] <andypugh> Cools software though, I like the "imaginary gears" tutorial (5th from top at http://www.gearotic.com/Tutorials.html )
[23:38:41] <MattyMatt> I don't trust anyone who spells the word hobbiests
[23:39:04] <MattyMatt> especially when they aren't hobbing :)
[23:39:25] <andypugh> I am hobbier than most :-)
[23:39:40] <JT-Shop> lol
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[23:41:59] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/181506
[23:43:24] <MattyMatt> is the sledge for widening the door?
[23:43:49] <JT-Shop> lol it holds the door open between the garage and the shop
[23:48:16] <andypugh> Random youtube video, but a nice medium-sized machine shop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGPUnmUYjR4&feature=related
[23:49:08] <MattyMatt> italians make more stuff than we do these days
[23:49:15] <JT-Shop> wow they make basements too
[23:49:52] <JT-Shop> with blue lab coats
[23:52:49] <JT-Shop> they work on some big stuff compared to me
[23:53:36] <MattyMatt> 3 generations who all know who their dad is. that's their competitive advantage over UK
[23:53:55] <andypugh> :-)
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[23:55:15] <andypugh> I know that my great-grandad ran this engine. I tried not to be an engineer, but there was no escape: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lW0PJu8wUg
[23:55:45] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,30/id,12073/limit,6/limitstart,150/lang,english/#14405
[23:56:04] <MattyMatt> my gd was a toolmaker. it must have rubbed off
[23:56:25] <MattyMatt> momma was a girl-engineer in a way. jewellery
[23:56:36] <JT-Shop> Andy sserial-mode problem
[23:57:54] <JT-Shop> my grandfather on my mothers side which died when my mom was like 12 was a Chevrolet mechanic even after he went blind from diabetes