#emc | Logs for 2011-10-28

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[00:53:35] <Danimal_garage> home depot trip number 4......
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[01:43:38] <elmo40> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF0uLnMoQZA
[01:43:49] <elmo40> this is what im going to use in my flying car ;)
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[01:48:10] <tom3p> what can cause following error in a hdwr stepgen?
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[01:54:13] <skunkworks> usually it is that the stepgen acceleration is not set higher than emc's axis acceleration.
[01:54:16] <skunkworks> he is gone
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[02:10:23] <Jymmm> terminal velocity!!!
[02:10:27] <Jymmm> =)
[02:11:46] <emcrules> cant wait till i get my teensys in the avr keys with .050 header spacings suck
[02:15:21] <Tom_itx> what avr keys have .050 spacing?
[02:16:01] <Tom_itx> are the teensys 1287's?
[02:18:44] <emcrules> the amtel usbkey
[02:19:26] <emcrules> 1286 ithink
[02:20:00] <Tom_itx> non host?
[02:20:12] <emcrules> i got my pendant working the way i want now so im building a batch
[02:20:35] <Tom_itx> ahh i see what it's for now
[02:20:38] <emcrules> at90usb1286
[02:20:47] <Tom_itx> you need that much chip?
[02:21:02] <emcrules> no but for 26$
[02:21:09] <Tom_itx> you need adc?
[02:21:16] <emcrules> nope
[02:21:33] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USB_Breakout/USB_Breakout_index.php
[02:21:54] <Tom_itx> U2
[02:22:20] <emcrules> need more pins
[02:22:22] <Tom_itx> i did a U4 board but haven't made any
[02:22:50] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
[02:23:00] <Tom_itx> i have a couple of those i'm playin with
[02:23:47] <Tom_itx> what are you gonna do with your pendant?
[02:24:29] <emcrules> keypad encoder lcd for now but working on oled
[02:24:48] <Tom_itx> kit or just for you?
[02:25:03] <emcrules> both/ either
[02:25:19] <Tom_itx> you're not working with Connor on it are you?
[02:25:23] <Tom_itx> he's making one as well
[02:25:37] <emcrules> nope
[02:25:45] <Tom_itx> i like oled
[02:26:00] <Tom_itx> you can get spi ones i think
[02:26:21] <emcrules> yeah i have one
[02:26:31] <Tom_itx> full color or grey scale?
[02:27:18] <emcrules> http://www.crystalfontz.com/product/CFAF320240F-035T-CB
[02:27:59] <Tom_itx> that's a little pricey
[02:28:52] <Tom_itx> a little bigger than most i've seen though
[02:29:03] <emcrules> just for prototyping
[02:29:19] <Tom_itx> sparkfun had one i think
[02:29:36] <emcrules> if i get serious the i will source it cheaper
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[02:33:27] <emcrules> Frank (cant spell his last name from memory) did alot of work on this a while ago and made it super easy to interface stuff like this
[02:34:09] <Tom_itx> i hooked mine up to the mesa board
[02:34:16] <Tom_itx> no fancy display though
[02:34:33] <emcrules> min other pendant is as well right now
[02:34:38] <emcrules> my
[02:35:52] <emcrules> i like the idea of freeing up the mesa hardware for machine i/o and using usb for HMI type stuff
[02:36:45] <Tom_itx> are you using dean's lib?
[02:39:11] <emcrules> HID comp and generic HID that uses deans lib
[02:39:52] <Danimal_garage> so far no leaks!
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[02:57:45] * FinboySlick perseveres... HARD!
[02:58:08] <FinboySlick> I shall overcome these missing symbols and implicit declarations.
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[14:19:08] <MattyMatt> jdhNC, are you jdhiller? (author of AMFedit)
[14:28:22] <jdhNC> nope
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[14:37:39] <Jymmm> jdhNC == jeffrey dahmer, Homeland's narcissistic criminal!
[14:38:01] <jdhNC> damn d00d
[14:38:07] <jdhNC> they never proved any of that
[14:38:17] <Jymmm> do they have to?
[14:48:52] <Loetmichel> being HS: no ;-)
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[14:52:57] <IG-garage> hello
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[14:56:55] <IG-garage> psha: hello
[14:57:56] <psha> hi
[15:00:32] <IG-garage> hi
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[15:10:32] <JT-Shop> ho
[15:11:23] <IG-garage> ho-ho-ho
[15:11:58] <A2Sheds> has anyone know of a technique for full color process imaging into metals besides image/graphic anodizing (for aluminum or titanium) or color electro-etching?
[15:12:50] <A2Sheds> has/does
[15:13:16] <IG-garage> my dog had said 'hauff' to me. But I'm not any Mr. Hauff, was my dog just barking friendly and lamely?
[15:14:00] <jdhNC> perhaps he has a cold.
[15:14:19] <IG-garage> textile paints for aluminum
[15:14:45] <IG-garage> jdhNC: no, he said 'heh!.. aff!'
[15:16:11] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: dye sub
[15:17:43] <IG-garage> hemical filling of the oxidized layer on the aluminum. E.g. blue washing detergent + rub aluminum and let some colour to leave on the surface while it's being oxidized with the air in water
[15:19:09] <A2Sheds> Dye sub into anodize before sealing. Otherwise dye sub is actually into a receptive polymer or ceramic coating applied to the surface.
[15:20:24] <A2Sheds> unless your substrate is porous unlike metal
[15:22:40] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: There is/was a laser engraver that produced 16 colors in SS
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[15:23:13] <MattyMatt> interferometry?
[15:23:24] <Jymmm> http://images.pennnet.com/articles/ils/thm/th_0803ilsornamental04.jpg
[15:23:36] <Jymmm> There ya go, more than 16 colors
[15:23:51] <A2Sheds> Jymmm: did it have a range of colors or only shades of grey?
[15:24:00] <Jymmm> look
[15:24:34] <Jymmm> http://www.industrial-lasers.com/articles/2008/03/ornamental-color-laser-marking-of-metals.html
[15:24:54] <A2Sheds> yeah, sub-optical wavelength gratings
[15:25:18] <Jymmm> those rare your choices, pick one
[15:25:24] <Jymmm> s/rare/are/
[15:25:37] <A2Sheds> rare as well
[15:25:51] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: Just pick one
[15:31:36] <A2Sheds> the laser process would also need a ceramic coating if the prints are going to be outside in the sun and weather
[15:32:16] <Jymmm> Fne, no color for you!
[15:34:51] <A2Sheds> ceramic prints do the same, print + firing, but you have to match the coefficient of thermal expansion of the ceramic to the alloy being printed
[15:35:45] <A2Sheds> or it will flake off with all the expanding and contracting over temp
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[15:44:11] <IchGucksLive> Hi all
[15:46:22] <IchGucksLive> conner im running on the most parts of the pendant
[15:47:09] <IchGucksLive> cradek: is the halpin resetet by axis as the net is processed ?
[15:48:28] <IchGucksLive> net jog-incr1-X-positiv halui.mdi-command-00 <= pendant.jog-inc1-x-positiv
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[15:49:09] <IchGucksLive> or do i need to reset it by the python file ?
[15:50:00] <IchGucksLive> if i need to reset it is there a halpin that indicates that emc axis has made a full cycle
[15:53:09] <A2Sheds> hmmm, what should I budget for a 20KW laser + accessories? $100K
[15:53:27] <IchGucksLive> CO2 ?
[15:54:56] <IchGucksLive> i think you can get a TRIUMPF 2Year old full mashine with 150inch for 25k
[15:55:23] <IchGucksLive> general renowd by manafactor
[15:56:29] <A2Sheds> I don't think you can modulate a CO2 laser like this http://www.industrial-lasers.com/articles/2008/03/ornamental-color-laser-marking-of-metals.html
[15:57:54] <jdhNC> we had a few 5kw lasers, they used a lot of power and required chilled water cooling
[15:58:39] <IchGucksLive> for this A2Sheds you only need 4kW of laserpower
[15:58:44] <A2Sheds> they used Nd:YAG and Nd:YVO4 or directly modulated pulsed fiber laser
[15:59:10] <IchGucksLive> the receller is just 5km from here
[16:00:33] <A2Sheds> <100 μJ with 30um spot
[16:02:03] <IchGucksLive> http://www.maschinensucher.de/A627351/YAG-Marking-Laser-Rofin-Sinar-RS-Marker-Power-Line-90Q.html
[16:02:15] <IchGucksLive> 14k Eur for the big one
[16:02:27] <A2Sheds> full color marking?
[16:02:42] <IchGucksLive> if you go for the chinise coped one its 7k eur
[16:03:48] <A2Sheds> the problem is still that you only produce oxides on the surface. I wish they had a SEM pic of a cross section
[16:06:59] <A2Sheds> looks like ceramic prints are the only durable solution for >10 outdoor applications
[16:07:03] <IchGucksLive> whatare you going to do
[16:07:53] <IchGucksLive> you can make the letters bigger and then go 4-10 times into it deper
[16:08:41] <IchGucksLive> so the outside is sharp and then you burn deeper if you go into the letter min width is 22pixel
[16:09:01] <A2Sheds> this would be for high res prints of photos
[16:09:42] <A2Sheds> say the curtain wall of a building
[16:09:50] <cpresser> A2Sheds: if you are really interested i can ask the people in my old lab. they did produces SEM pictures of different laser markings
[16:09:51] <IchGucksLive> printing color pictures with lasers there are mutch better ways to do this
[16:10:45] <IchGucksLive> http://apl.aip.org/resource/1/applab/v92/i4/p041914_s1?isAuthorized=no
[16:10:57] <IchGucksLive> this is a good solution to it
[16:11:43] <A2Sheds> cpresser: I'm wondering how deep the images go below the surface
[16:12:14] <cpresser> A2Sheds: only a few µm
[16:12:54] <A2Sheds> ichGucksLive: yes, my concern is durability over a few decades minimum outdoors
[16:14:03] <A2Sheds> cpresser: ok, so it would need a barrier layer to protect it
[16:14:19] <cpresser> laser maked spots oxidate faster than regular metal, i dont think it will do outdoors for more than a year
[16:14:58] <cpresser> your stuff will still be visible, but it will change
[16:16:26] <IchGucksLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh03rFk2J0U good example of the technik for the outline and deep burn on the letters
[16:16:26] <cpresser> isnt it possible to switch to aluminium?
[16:16:27] <A2Sheds> I can image anodize already
[16:17:21] <A2Sheds> we have also aluminum plated other metals and image anodized
[16:17:33] <cpresser> ah, its not a prticulat application, you are just searching for new methods?
[16:18:32] <A2Sheds> stainless steel, outdoor
[16:19:55] <cpresser> i am gonna do this one for my girlfriend and write 'kallisté' on it :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz9-DUG83Fk&feature=related
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[16:38:13] <IchGucksLive> cpresser: therfor you only need a 240mW laser from your old 16x DVD
[16:38:33] <IchGucksLive> ofcause a 5mW to put the diode inside
[16:38:49] <IchGucksLive> togeter 19.90 euro
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[16:53:36] <Jymmm> ve7it: Hey Lawernce, Have you ever worked on a PCW solar controller by chance?
[16:53:46] <Jymmm> PWM I mean
[16:54:05] <ve7it> no... sorry
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[17:02:11] <Jymmm> ve7it: wth man! lol
[17:02:36] <Jymmm> ve7it: You were to be my "go to" guy on this. Solar radio charger !!!
[17:04:25] <ve7it> the units I am intrigued with are the units that feed power back into the mains... hmm wonder if the new smart meters run backwards??
[17:05:04] <Jymmm> ve7it: Well, I'm trying to do portable "off the grid" if that helps =)
[17:07:37] <ve7it> the cheap solar controllers just disconnect the panels at max charge voltage... the good ones are like a switching power supply that track the maximum power point to suck every last watt out of the panel
[17:08:32] <Jymmm> ve7it: I have a foldable solar (milspec) solar panel/blanket, but no controller.
[17:08:45] <Jymmm> 15W
[17:10:24] <ve7it> I dont have any plans, but there must be some stuff on the internet.... for your size panel and a gell cell, you could probably just use a shunt regulator set for the gell cell float voltage (around 14.2v) and a reverse current protection diode
[17:10:48] <Jymmm> ve7it: shunt regulator???
[17:11:26] <Danimal_garage|2> morning
[17:11:54] <A2Sheds> any new tanks today?
[17:11:56] <ve7it> yup... a nice linear one.... when the battery is up to voltage, it makes heat, not radio noise.. it has no effect until 14.2 v is reached
[17:12:55] <Jymmm> ve7it: I have nfc what a "shunt regulator" is/does. Here's the solar blanket I have http://www.affordable-solar.com/store/portable-flexible-solar-panels/unisolar-uni-pac15-15-watt-foldable-flexible-solar-panel
[17:13:26] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: shunt regulator: a "power-zenerdiode"
[17:13:58] <Loetmichel> is connected in parallen to your battery and "shunts" all excess "voltage" to ground.
[17:14:15] <Jymmm> so prevents overcharging?
[17:14:34] <Loetmichel> i.e.: acts like a variable load which will pass enough current o drop the voltage to the desired voltage of the batter
[17:14:36] <Loetmichel> y
[17:14:47] <Loetmichel> below that it still isnt "there"
[17:14:59] <Loetmichel> s/still/simply
[17:15:13] <ve7it> http://www.reuk.co.uk/Shunt-Regulator.htm
[17:15:34] <Loetmichel> sorry for my bad typing, i seem to have a knot in my fingers atm ;-)
[17:15:42] <Jymmm> Ok, so a 1n4whatever to prevent discharging the battery under low light conditions, and a 14.2 zener diode to prevent overcharging the battery. Is it really that simple?
[17:16:11] <Loetmichel> it is
[17:16:21] <Loetmichel> but a zener would be a little weak
[17:16:51] <Loetmichel> the shuint regulator should be able to dissipate alt least the 15W your panel can produce
[17:17:14] <Loetmichel> if the batter is fully charged, it has toi transform the whol Charge currden of the panel to heat.
[17:17:25] <Jymmm> Ah, it's a special component, like a VR, SCR, etc.
[17:17:30] <Loetmichel> but use no 1n4 whatever
[17:17:38] <Loetmichel> use a power shottky
[17:17:46] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: why?
[17:18:09] <Loetmichel> 'cause a Si-diode has 0,7V forward drop
[17:18:17] <Jymmm> right
[17:18:25] <Loetmichel> a shottky diode has 0,2V forward drop
[17:18:34] <Jymmm> ah, less loss
[17:18:37] <Loetmichel> less energy "wasted"
[17:18:45] <Jymmm> cool
[17:19:19] <Jymmm> I read that PWM charging is better as it breaks up the crystaliztion that can occure in batteries
[17:19:35] <Jymmm> (I forget the REAL word they used)
[17:19:45] <ve7it> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SunGuard-4A-Solar-Charge-Controller-/380295586618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588b62233a
[17:20:09] <ve7it> cheap compared to the panels
[17:20:39] <Jymmm> ve7it: Yeah, I've been eyeing that controller for years. Wuld prefer it a thinner profile.
[17:20:51] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: thats shomething to belive (or not)
[17:21:02] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: the PWM ?
[17:21:14] <Loetmichel> i have NEVER read that PWM charging for AGM batterys does anything good (or bad)
[17:21:16] <ve7it> watch the postage on that unit!
[17:21:32] <Jymmm> ve7it: FSCK ME!
[17:21:50] <ve7it> me too!
[17:21:50] <jdhNC> sulphation
[17:21:59] <Jymmm> jdhNC: ty
[17:22:04] <jdhNC> but, I think that is only in plain SLA, not AGM
[17:22:33] <Jymmm> ve7it: $10 to US, default was UK
[17:22:51] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: to break up sulphur PWM is no good. ther has to be a bigger "hammer"
[17:22:55] <Jymmm> jdhNC: I have some 12V@7AH lead acid gel cells
[17:23:02] <ve7it> $55 to come north
[17:23:23] <Loetmichel> like a 0,1F capacitor charged to 60V and discharged into the battery with <0,1Ohm ;-)
[17:23:30] <Jymmm> ve7it: I've found it cheaper elsewhere. hang on...
[17:23:56] <ve7it> np... it was just an example... most panel kits come with them
[17:24:05] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i have about 20 of the 12V 7Ah from UPses
[17:24:22] <Loetmichel> they are pretty indestructibel
[17:24:25] <jdhNC> http://www.harborfreight.com/7-amp-solar-charge-regulator-96728.html
[17:24:28] <Loetmichel> indestructible
[17:24:30] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I have a case in a half
[17:24:42] <Jymmm> jdhNC: OH HELL NO! IT's a POS
[17:24:56] <ve7it> time to make some fishing sinkers...
[17:24:58] <jdhNC> uhm, but it comes from HF, how could it be.
[17:25:01] <Jymmm> Read " What is PWM" http://www.windsun.com/ChargeControls/ChargeCont.htm
[17:25:36] * Loetmichel is building a self driven "battery chassis" for my model helicopter charging since last year
[17:26:03] <Loetmichel> so i dont have to carry the heavy batterys to the model "airport"
[17:27:14] <Jymmm> ve7it: http://www.solar-electric.com/sg-4.html
[17:27:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5534
[17:27:59] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=6241
[17:28:08] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5516
[17:28:54] <Loetmichel> should carry about 10 12V7Ah packs AND the copter to the landing strip ;-)
[17:29:52] <Danimal_garage|2> hi
[17:30:29] <jdhNC> I suppose an extension cord would be too easy?
[17:30:43] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: for me?
[17:30:47] <jdhNC> yes
[17:31:11] <Loetmichel> not available: the landing strip is about 10 minutes with the car from home
[17:31:51] <Loetmichel> and nowhere near any building, in the middle of some wheat fields
[17:32:24] <Danimal_garage|2> so my anno tank is done! all that's left is making a shield for the chiller so the acid doesnt eat it
[17:32:35] <Loetmichel> and the parking lot is about 1000m from the laning strip ;-)
[17:32:43] <jdhNC> back in the day, all planes/cars/helicopters were nitro/methanol.... no longer?
[17:33:56] <Jymmm> jdhNC: lithium polymer batteries
[17:33:59] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10719 <- no longer ;-)
[17:34:01] <Jymmm> Li-Pol
[17:34:07] <Loetmichel> exactly
[17:34:35] <Jymmm> jdhNC: super low profile high AH, and ever higher $$$$
[17:35:06] <Jymmm> jdhNC: http://www.powerstream.com/li-pol.htm
[17:35:27] <ve7it> wonder if many prius have been car jacked for the battery?
[17:35:38] <Jymmm> ve7it: good idea
[17:36:12] <Loetmichel> prius have NiCd havent they?
[17:36:14] <ve7it> go for a test drive an phone the dealer when the battery goes "dead"
[17:36:22] <jdhNC> I could use a 29.6v, 40Ah pack
[17:36:44] <Jymmm> jdhNC: where did you see that?
[17:36:55] <jdhNC> I didn't, I could just use one.
[17:37:06] <Jymmm> jdhNC: *SMACK*
[17:37:09] <jdhNC> I have a 24v, 20Ah NiMH
[17:37:30] <jdhNC> 30Ah would be fine
[17:37:55] <Jymmm> jdhNC: http://www.powerstream.com/thin-primary-lithium.htm
[17:38:15] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/xphotorep_test.avi (8MB) <- $me testing the rebuld helicopter of a friend at my home, he is the camera man, hence the tremble
[17:39:09] <Jymmm> jdhNC: 3V@3AH == 23 grams
[17:40:04] <Loetmichel> (he feared i would crash his freshly rebuild copter ;-)
[17:40:13] <Jymmm> ok max cont current 1.5A
[17:40:35] <jdhNC> Jymm: current pack is 7kg
[17:41:20] <Jymmm> jdhNC: whats it for?
[17:42:11] <jdhNC> dive scooter
[17:42:20] <Jymmm> ah
[17:42:36] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: use A123 Cells
[17:42:50] <Loetmichel> best for cycle use and high currents
[17:44:18] <jdhNC> they scare me.
[17:44:27] <Loetmichel> 8 serial 15 parallel would be 34,5 Ah 26,4V
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[17:45:25] <Jymmm> ve7it: http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/support/item.cfm?ItemId=111
[17:45:46] <Jymmm> ve7it: PWM Charging Info http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/support/item.cfm?ItemId=174
[17:45:55] <Loetmichel> and about 8,4kg
[17:46:05] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: why?
[17:46:30] <jdhNC> just from reading stories of charging (and discharging) failures
[17:46:36] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Oh, it was 'desulfate a battery"
[17:46:40] <Loetmichel> a123 and failures?
[17:46:48] <Loetmichel> dont you mean LiPoly?
[17:46:53] <jdhNC> no, just generic lipo failures
[17:47:03] <Loetmichel> a123 is LiFePo
[17:47:03] <jdhNC> Jymm: that's what I said.
[17:47:04] <Spida> LiFEPo != LiPo
[17:47:06] <Loetmichel> much safer
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[17:47:18] <jdhNC> oh
[17:47:20] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Got Class D Fire Extinguisher? lol
[17:47:44] <jdhNC> yeah, I found a source for a 25amp LiFEPo pack, $510 shipped
[17:47:48] <Spida> LifePo gets elementary Lithium at about 800C, LiPo at 120C. huge difference
[17:48:07] <Loetmichel> Spida: thats the point
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[17:48:23] <Spida> I know. I dumped all my LiPos for LiFePos
[17:48:29] <Loetmichel> and lipo is in a foil pack, a123 in cylindical steel caings
[17:48:34] <Loetmichel> casings
[17:48:41] <Jymmm> nice
[17:48:59] <Jymmm> Which one is "Lithium Manganese Dioxide" ?
[17:49:05] <Spida> tehre are rumors that there are LiPo in metal casings, too
[17:49:11] <Spida> Jymmm: still different
[17:49:17] <Spida> LiMn.
[17:49:17] <Jymmm> Spida: k
[17:49:40] * Loetmichel has drainde hios LiFePo packs in 5 minutes and recharged them in 15 minutes
[17:49:43] <Jymmm> LiMnOpQr blah blah blah
[17:49:46] <Loetmichel> drained his
[17:49:54] <icnetwrks> has anyone used univelop's 3-Axis TB6560 CNC Driver Board V2.0?
[17:49:55] <Spida> LIMn ist similar to LiFePo. more cycles, less discharge-current
[17:50:23] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: lithium manganes dioxide are primary (non.rechargeable) cells
[17:50:31] <Jymmm> Spida: So what is the overall life of LiFe?
[17:50:36] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: oh, gotcha
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[17:51:21] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: lifetime lipo: abount 100 Cycles or three years, wharever happens first
[17:51:35] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Really? That's it?
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[17:51:41] <Loetmichel> lifepo: about 1000 to 5000 cycles, MUCH longer Shelf life
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[17:52:01] <Loetmichel> thats it, lipo ages even on the shelf
[17:52:26] <Jymmm> Yeah, that sounds great.
[17:53:00] <Jymmm> I HATE Li-Ion as they only last 24m on avg. NiMH drain on the shelf in days.
[17:53:26] <Jymmm> But NiMH far better for overall life.
[17:54:01] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i have a NiCd (panasonic red amp) powerpack from my youth...
[17:54:15] <Loetmichel> now about 25 years old
[17:54:18] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: no memory ?
[17:55:11] <Loetmichel> tortured every flight (5minutes charged to "red hot", then 3 minutes discharged in the plane, recharged 5 minuts and so on)
[17:55:20] <Loetmichel> gond knows how many cycles
[17:55:22] <Jymmm> Hell, even Radio Shack sells them
[17:55:34] <Loetmichel> it serves the last years as a power pack for my transmitter
[17:55:39] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Heh, no chance for memory =)
[17:55:45] <Loetmichel> STILL delivering over 100A if needed ;-)
[17:55:52] <Loetmichel> until now ;-)
[17:56:38] <Loetmichel> and still over 1600mAh capacity left from the original 1700
[17:56:49] <Loetmichel> never seen anything like this again ;-)
[17:56:50] <Jymmm> from NiCad?
[17:56:56] <Loetmichel> yeas
[17:56:59] <Loetmichel> yes
[17:57:01] <Jymmm> weird
[17:57:24] <Jymmm> Not bad in pricing... http://www.batteryspace.com/32vlifepo4batterypacks.aspx
[17:57:37] <Jymmm> Need special charger?
[17:57:49] <Loetmichel> would be better
[17:58:14] <Jymmm> could they be solar charged ?
[17:58:28] <Loetmichel> lifepo is charged like lead-acid: constant 3,7V per cell current limited to about 5 times the capacity
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[17:58:47] <Jymmm> oh, well shit, that's easy then =)
[17:58:55] <Loetmichel> and about every 10 cycles one Should balance the cells
[17:59:12] <Jymmm> how do you do that? Rearrange the connections?
[17:59:28] <Loetmichel> buy a charger with balancer
[17:59:51] <Jymmm> What does "balancing" really do?
[18:00:00] <Loetmichel> ... or get some 100Ohm resistors parallel each cell when carging
[18:00:04] <Loetmichel> charging
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[18:00:08] <Jymmm> I've heard the term, but not understnad it exactly
[18:00:12] <Loetmichel> it levels the cell voltages
[18:00:30] <Loetmichel> so every cell has the same voltage at charge end
[18:00:50] <Jymmm> Ok, so if a have a battery pack in a series/parallel setup, how can a "balancing" charger help?
[18:00:59] <Loetmichel> and not the weaker one has 3,9V and the bigger one 3,5
[18:01:18] <Jymmm> or even in parallel or series?
[18:01:55] <Loetmichel> connect the cells in parallen, the packs in series and get a connector out which has every series conection presented to the charger
[18:02:04] <Loetmichel> so it can level the cell voltages
[18:02:20] <Jymmm> so use a spider cable in essense?
[18:02:33] <Loetmichel> look at any lipo/lifepo pack: the have the Balancer connectors
[18:02:43] <Loetmichel> whats a spider cable?
[18:02:44] <Jymmm> ah
[18:02:55] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: one to many cbale
[18:03:42] <Loetmichel> no, the pack stay in series like it is, only the connections between the series cells are wired to the balancer
[18:03:49] <IchGucksLive> Jymmm: without the battery in the middle gets overload and at the sides no load
[18:04:01] <Loetmichel> so it can dischage the stronger cells to meet the weaker ones
[18:04:08] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ah
[18:04:20] <IchGucksLive> on liop it is requierd to use this for eatch cell
[18:04:49] <Loetmichel> IchGucksLive: on lifepo too... but only every tenth or so cycle
[18:05:03] <Loetmichel> 'cause the lifepos dont drift so bad capacity-wise ;-)
[18:05:31] <Jymmm> 32oz and I get 12.8V@10Ah http://www.batteryspace.com/HighPowerLFPPolymerCell3.2V10Ah8790160-10C32Wh100Arate.aspx
[18:06:03] <IchGucksLive> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_balancing
[18:07:09] <Jymmm> 2lb 12.8V@120AH, sounds pretty good to me
[18:07:14] <Jymmm> 10AH
[18:08:30] <Jymmm> compared to 12V@7AH leadacid at 5.2 lbs
[18:09:04] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[18:09:08] <Jymmm> though 4x the price too =)
[18:09:49] <Loetmichel> thats normal
[18:10:44] <Jymmm> Well, I have one in a nylon shoulder pouch with cigar socket and power pole connectors. It's heavy.
[18:10:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11184 <- one of my 13,2V 2,3Ah packs costs about 50 euros
[18:10:58] <Loetmichel> (60$?)
[18:11:47] <IchGucksLive> http://such001.reichelt.de/?SID=13TaM7HX8AAAIAABDXV4Ua87770fe5f31a03aa256ba5acb126fb2;ACTION=444
[18:12:07] <IchGucksLive> reichelt has the 18.5V at 3.6AH
[18:12:19] <IchGucksLive> i use this for driving the bicicle
[18:12:37] <Loetmichel> ... and the awg10 cables are NOT a joke. the pack can deliver about 120A without a flinch
[18:12:58] <Jymmm> =)
[18:13:27] <Jymmm> http://www.infinigi.com/imagez/renewable_energy/solar_photovoltaic/modules-panels/Unisolar/Uni-Pac30.gif
[18:13:42] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: nice
[18:13:57] <Jymmm> Thats what I have, It folds up to 9x6x4 inches or so
[18:14:48] <Jymmm> so, if I can have a battery pack and controller in the same size package with less weight, that would be great.
[18:15:05] <IchGucksLive> Loetmichel: what charger do you use
[18:15:10] <Jymmm> or even a bit smaller.
[18:15:14] <Loetmichel> china cheap
[18:15:31] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11471
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[18:17:03] <Jymmm> Can LiFePo work in low temps?
[18:17:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11187 <- that happens if one buys cheap china lipo ;-)
[18:17:33] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[18:17:33] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: can, but below 0c the max current is somewhat limited
[18:17:55] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: thats the same as alkaline
[18:17:59] <Jymmm> 0c
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[18:18:27] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i still use this one... it gets thicker every flight but still delivers its original capacity... so i still use it
[18:18:45] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Got Duct Tape?
[18:18:54] <Loetmichel> supposedly some time i will get a big "BANG" and the foil will rupture ;-)
[18:19:16] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: thus the duct tape, to keep the shrapnal to a minimum =)
[18:19:24] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[18:19:31] <Jymmm> (I'm serious)
[18:19:36] <Loetmichel> lipo= foilpack with foilinside
[18:19:42] <Loetmichel> no shrapnell
[18:20:00] <Jymmm> no, just bruning lithium flying everywhere
[18:20:03] <Jymmm> burning
[18:20:37] <Jymmm> =)
[18:20:52] <Loetmichel> just some confetti ;-)
[18:20:57] <Jymmm> lol
[18:21:28] <Loetmichel> and the smell of "mon cherie"
[18:22:11] <Loetmichel> -e
[18:22:13] <Jymmm> Well, I think I'll get the schottky diode and the shunt regulator and just ignore the PWM for now.
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[18:22:35] <Jymmm> I didnt realize PWM charging produced so much EMI
[18:23:01] <Jymmm> I'll save the $30 for LiFePo stuff instead.
[18:23:36] <Jymmm> These are new, old stock gel cells, so their overall life may not be that much.
[18:24:05] <Jymmm> Though, I'm not sure on how to trickle charge them wiht that setup
[18:24:41] <Jymmm> or "maintance charge" if you will.
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[18:26:33] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: no need
[18:27:01] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Well, the battery wont be on the solar panel all the time.
[18:27:12] <Loetmichel> just stet the shunt regulator to 13,8V for trickle charge and 14,2V to 14,4V to cycle charge
[18:27:47] <Jymmm> oh, the shunt reg is adjustable?
[18:27:54] <Loetmichel> most are
[18:29:06] <Jymmm> Ah, I thought it was like 7805, not like LM317
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[18:29:39] <Jymmm> and just use a resistor for the adjustment?
[18:29:58] <Loetmichel> which both are series regulators, not shunt regulators
[18:30:05] <Loetmichel> yes
[18:30:13] <Jymmm> http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM431.html#Overview
[18:31:11] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: jes, like this one. BUT: a little more than 400A please ;-)
[18:31:25] <Jymmm> heh, yeah (first hit on google)
[18:31:58] <Jymmm> Hmmm, I wonder if there is a way to automatically switch between trickle and charge mode somehow
[18:32:22] <Loetmichel> thats not critical
[18:32:40] <Jymmm> no, but I'm lazy and might forget =)
[18:32:56] <Jymmm> but I guess a switch is easy enough
[18:32:58] <Loetmichel> set it to cylcle cahrge if the battery is empty ant you have much sun.
[18:33:22] <Loetmichel> and the next day or so if nearly full/full switch it back to tricle
[18:33:38] <Loetmichel> it doesent die if set to 14,4 for a day or two
[18:34:06] <Jymmm> Well, the idea is to have it in a box "ready to go" in the house on mains, then toss in car and solar charge as needed.
[18:34:11] <Loetmichel> but after a week or longer it may lose capacity
[18:37:07] <Jymmm> Hmmm, can't find any higher than 100ma
[18:39:17] <Loetmichel> do you know how to solder?
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[18:51:40] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: http://www.elektronik-kompendium.de/public/schaerer/bilder/powzen07.gif
[18:51:49] <Loetmichel> do you think you can build this?
[18:51:55] <Loetmichel> should be sufficient
[18:52:04] <Loetmichel> (7.1
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[19:00:52] <Danimal_garage|2> i drove an electric Ford Ranger the other day
[19:01:05] <Danimal_garage|2> with a 200hp motor
[19:01:14] <Danimal_garage|2> pretty cool
[19:01:28] <Danimal_garage|2> lays a nice strip :)
[19:02:55] <Danimal_garage|2> welt like it had v8 torque
[19:03:00] <Danimal_garage|2> felt*
[19:08:02] <syyl_> but without the v8 "rooooarr"?
[19:10:02] <Tom_itx> Danimal_garage|2, what type of batteries?
[19:12:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Energizer
[19:13:02] <Jymmm> BUNNY POWERED!!!
[19:13:50] <syyl_> few hundred AA type ones? ;)
[19:16:01] <Danimal_garage|2> Tom_itx: i am not sure
[19:16:12] <Danimal_garage|2> not sure if they sprung for the lithium
[19:16:42] <Danimal_garage|2> they werent car batteries, they were some sort of battery packs
[19:21:13] <Loetmichel> Danimal_garage|2: thew power of an electric motor...
[19:21:31] <Loetmichel> max torque from 0 rpm 'til max rpm ;-)
[19:22:07] * Loetmichel sat in a "city stromer" once
[19:22:58] <Loetmichel> a VW golf (rabbit) with a 20kw electric motor and nearly 2 tons gross because of the lead-acid-batterys
[19:23:17] <Loetmichel> only 90km range with a Vmax of 90kmh...
[19:24:12] <Danimal_garage|2> the ranger was 4100lbs
[19:24:22] <Danimal_garage|2> it has a range of about 150-200 miles
[19:24:27] <Loetmichel> But: starting from the red ligt is awesome: Pedal to the metal... "zzziiirp" from the Speed controller... tachometer shows 60kmh... ;)
[19:24:55] <Loetmichel> anything but big motorcycles only sees the back lights until 60kmh
[19:25:10] <Loetmichel> and that with 20kw and nearly 2 tonnes to move ;-)
[19:30:19] <A2Sheds> anyone ever setup servos with a 5i20 and a servo drive with +-10V analog, that also uses encoder feedback and has it's own PID?
[19:32:42] <A2Sheds> I have to see about getting the servo drive into the state of being only an amplifier
[19:33:44] <cradek> sort of. many drives have velocity feedback, but more often with a tach than encoder. these drives have tuning for the velocity loop and sometimes the still-deeper torque/current loop.
[19:34:04] <anonimasu> what is the tuning procedure for a setup like that?
[19:34:15] <cradek> so without knowing exactly what your drive's pid parameters are tuning, I can't answer definitively yes or no to your question.
[19:34:17] <anonimasu> ie, how do you tune the tach response?
[19:34:55] <A2Sheds> yeah these are Parker GV's, they get feedback from the 1000 count/rev quad encoders in the motors
[19:35:01] <cradek> anonimasu: depends on the drive - some have a procedure. some you might use a dual trace scope for commanded and feedback (tach) velocity and wing it
[19:35:20] <cradek> some you might (ahem) turn the knob until it stops oscillating
[19:35:30] <cradek> and then call it good enough
[19:35:45] <anonimasu> scope, seems like a good idea.
[19:36:30] <A2Sheds> you can tune current, velocity and position loops
[19:36:49] <cradek> if it has a position loop something seems very weird about the setup
[19:37:03] <cradek> how can +-10v be a position command?
[19:37:13] <A2Sheds> yeah, might just be the doc, since it covers the programmable versions as well
[19:37:18] <A2Sheds> exactly
[19:37:39] <A2Sheds> but I'm looking at the drive setup file
[19:37:57] <cradek> I have used a drive that used encoder feedback for velocity, and it tuned like any other velocity mode drive
[19:38:30] <A2Sheds> http://pastebin.com/gS7JCHC6
[19:39:19] <cradek> DMODE 2 ;Drive Control Mode
[19:39:21] <cradek> ?
[19:39:39] <cradek> this all means nothing without docs
[19:40:16] <A2Sheds> dmode 2 is the mode for this drive
[19:40:20] <A2Sheds> I have the docs
[19:41:22] <skunkworks> I have seen amc amps that can be setup similar to a hobby servo - resistor/pot feedback and the +/-10v relates to the position of the shaft.
[19:41:41] <A2Sheds> it sets the drive in torque/force control mode +- 10V
[19:42:05] <A2Sheds> I'll play it and see
[19:44:45] <cradek> velocity is better than torque if you can tune it
[19:44:52] <A2Sheds> it looks like you can also program limits into the drive
[19:45:04] <A2Sheds> so that also explains the encoder feedback
[19:45:16] <cradek> freaky
[19:45:36] <A2Sheds> virtual limit and home switches
[19:46:28] <A2Sheds> http://www.compumotor.com/manuals/gemini/Gemini_Programmers_Reference.pdf
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[19:47:35] <andypugh> cradek: Do you have a little 5-axis mill, or am I confusing you with somebody else?
[19:47:58] <cradek> yes you're probably thinking of mine
[19:48:19] <A2Sheds> also it looks like you can program this version to travel between 2 positions if all you want to do it control it with a pot and start/stop inputs
[19:48:28] <andypugh> I think there is a guy on the forum who is using the same kins, and finds he gets an f-error on toolchange.
[19:48:42] <A2Sheds> so you can tune the trapezoid
[19:48:59] <andypugh> (this is probably a side-effect of linking the tool offset to the tool-table, in his case)
[19:49:03] <cradek> I'm pretty sure the kins are wrong
[19:49:15] <cradek> oh - yeah that approach will never work.
[19:49:31] <andypugh> Even with the head vertical?
[19:49:35] <cradek> he needs to put the tool length in W and use W in the kins
[19:49:47] <cradek> yeah, you obviously get position jumps
[19:50:12] <cradek> you have to make a move that applies it, you can't just apply it
[19:50:32] <cradek> so he probably has several problems
[19:50:47] <andypugh> Yes, because tool-offset is part of the kins.
[19:51:41] <cradek> you mean he has a hal pin and puts a (abruptly changing) value on it and makes joint offsets accordingly?
[19:51:43] <andypugh> It's a stepper machine, I assume, so just having VERY big f-error limits might be the pragmatic solution.
[19:51:58] <andypugh> Yeah, I think so.
[19:52:06] <cradek> well that's doing it wrong
[19:52:19] <cradek> he can fix it right by putting tool length on W
[19:52:32] <andypugh> Now you mention it, yes. But as the half-baked idea was my suggestion...
[19:52:47] <cradek> then use kins to make W move the tool the right direction (which works no matter which way it points)
[19:53:00] <cradek> bonus: you can do canned drill cycles in W
[19:53:17] <cradek> this is all solved and in use on at least several machines
[19:54:04] <andypugh> So, the tool offset parameter in the kins is a fixed value, even if you do toolchanges?
[19:54:16] <cradek> I don't know what parameter you're talking about
[19:54:25] <cradek> have a link to the kins?
[19:54:29] <andypugh> Neither do I. It's been several days
[19:54:59] <cradek> I can imagine a fixed value such as distance from B pivot point to tool gauge line
[19:55:14] <cradek> but I don't know if that's what you're talking about
[19:55:39] <andypugh> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/kinematics/5axiskins.c;h=0342088875f6fcf7f5c67a6ce88ea6b4eda531e5;hb=82f12f7e9da28e191ad691e929b69237154077b4
[19:56:00] <cradek> oh hell, it has my name on it.
[19:56:27] <andypugh> He has netted halui.tool-offset-Z (or whatever it is actually called) to 5axiskins.tooloffset.z
[19:56:39] <cradek> I don't see that pin
[19:56:45] <cradek> there is a (fixed, configurable) pivot length
[19:56:57] <cradek> oh right, there is also tool_length that is a hal pin but not used
[19:57:18] <andypugh> 115 and 117 create two HAL pins
[19:57:43] <cradek> yes and 115's is not used
[19:57:49] <andypugh> But, yes, I see now how W finds its way into the system.
[19:57:52] <cradek> 117 is meant to be fixed/configurable
[19:58:10] <andypugh> Right, looks like I can at least give less-bad advice now...
[19:58:16] <cradek> yes these kins might properly use W
[19:58:19] <andypugh> Thanks
[19:58:23] <cradek> I have not used these on a real machine
[19:58:51] <cradek> I *think* it looks like forward/inverse match, but I'm loathe to say I'm sure without actually testing
[19:59:38] <cradek> writing in terms of s2r makes it pretty simple though doesn't it
[20:00:09] <cradek> the 180- makes me suspect something's turned around wrong
[20:00:34] <andypugh> Well, that is an implementation detail tobe solved by the user :-)
[20:00:41] <cradek> heh, as they all are
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[20:01:32] <cradek> I had a hell of a time writing AB kins for a different project; I had to sleep on it and come back a couple times to get it right (directions matching)
[20:01:40] <mrsun> finaly got to scrape som more on the minimill =)
[20:01:57] <mrsun> tho i just get sader and sader over chinese "craftsmanship" :P
[20:02:02] <cradek> it's simple trig but ONLY after you manage to picture it the right way in your head
[20:02:37] <mrsun> btw, any tips on what on the mill to use as a right plane? :)
[20:02:43] <mrsun> ive got no clue what to use :P
[20:03:17] <cradek> sorry, I don't know the first thing about scraping. well, maybe the first, but not the second and third.
[20:03:33] <andypugh> Yeah, there are some things I have seen from China that clearly have never worked, and can ever work, but they manufacture and ship them by the thousand. It is a very odd mindset.
[20:04:27] <mrsun> hell it has taken me hours and hours to start to get one of the axis on the mill straight
[20:04:28] <cradek> chinese machines are often a nice set of castings that just need to be finished to make a fine machine. the only mistake is not thinking of them as a kit.
[20:04:30] <andypugh> mrsun: If yours is anything like mine, the place to start scraping is the unmachined area under the dovetail that their finishing tool didn't reach.
[20:04:35] <mrsun> contact picture is in the far ends of the table
[20:04:49] <cradek> (heck, same with used machinery, no matter where it was made)
[20:05:23] <mrsun> andypugh, i started with the base, to get the guides there straight
[20:05:40] <mrsun> now im working on the very poorly machined surfaces that mates to them
[20:06:03] <andypugh> My lathe slide had been quite carefully scraped in China, each side fitted it's slide perfectly. It was a pity that they didn't both fit _at_the_same_time.
[20:06:08] <mrsun> but its here i find it gets a bit more tricky, as if i scrape to much on one side it will tilt to that side
[20:06:16] <mrsun> i need a way to measure if im getting straight =)
[20:06:31] <cradek> andypugh: haha
[20:06:38] <andypugh> Which slide are you scraping? X?
[20:07:08] <mrsun> andypugh, Y i guess, in and out from the mill =)
[20:07:22] <andypugh> It doesn't actually matter if you tilt X or Y, as a skim cut on the table will compensate.
[20:07:53] <andypugh> That does assume you can then square up the spindle travel to the new XY plane though
[20:07:57] <cradek> but not a cut made on itself
[20:08:09] <cradek> by itself?
[20:08:12] <cradek> you know what I mean
[20:08:25] <mrsun> the Y table is easier to get straight
[20:08:50] <mrsun> as i can just place it on the stone and measure where it needs to be twisted =)
[20:09:05] <mrsun> i guess i can do that with the Y table slides on the X slide
[20:09:31] <mrsun> if i just had two pieces that is perfectly straight ... i need cast iron pieces ...
[20:09:32] <mrsun> sight
[20:09:41] <andypugh> The angle between the X travel and the Y travel needs to be exactly 90 degrees, but the rest of the geometry is pretty much solved by the fact that it is two straight lines and a point.
[20:10:32] <mrsun> and hmm and how to measure that =)
[20:10:40] <mrsun> but isnt that fixed by fixing the dovetails ?
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[20:13:01] <andypugh> mrsun: What you need, ideally, is a Camel Back. http://www.schsm.org/SCRAPING.pdf
[20:13:22] <mrsun> mm, but they are expensive + to ship them to where i live would cost a fortune :P
[20:14:07] <mrsun> im in the tought of asking somewhere that they cast iron if i provide the pattern what it would cost to get it casted :P
[20:14:32] <andypugh> You have a flat plate already?
[20:14:50] <mrsun> what is it called... those stones =)
[20:15:00] <mrsun> plane surface ?
[20:15:37] <andypugh> Well, you ought to be able to make a reference straightedge from something fairly straight, scraped to the surface plate
[20:16:12] <mrsun> yeah ive been thinking in those ways
[20:16:21] <jdhNC> thick plate glass?
[20:17:16] <cradek> I bet float glass is pretty darn flat, but import surface plates aren't very expensive at all
[20:17:18] <andypugh> But, to be honest, it's a mini-mill and it will still be a mini-mill when you have finished, I would concentrate on getting the play even and small, and the movement free, and leave it at that.
[20:17:38] <mrsun> if i can find a good piece to work with i have access to plane grinder or whatever its called, could use that to makeit fairly good to start with, then scrape the rest =)
[20:17:45] <skunkworks> Cradek: cool clock!
[20:17:52] <cradek> skunkworks: which?
[20:18:03] <mrsun> andypugh, hehe =)
[20:18:24] <skunkworks> cradek: http://timeguy.com/cradek/
[20:18:31] <cradek> oh the newest one, duh :-)
[20:18:32] <mrsun> andypugh, yeah well if i get these slides plane so they wont stick together if i tighten it up like it did, had to have like half a mm of play for it to work at all :/
[20:18:38] <skunkworks> :)
[20:18:50] <mrsun> i guess that would be aight =)
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[20:19:05] <mrsun> and ive added oil grooves for better lubrication while doing this stuff =)
[20:19:35] <cradek> skunkworks: there was poor WWVB reception there (metal lath walls), which led me to make an NTP/wifi clock. it works great.
[20:20:04] <skunkworks> heh - makes sense :)
[20:22:20] <mrsun> andypugh, and im realy perfectly happy to be able to make parts to the hundreds of a mm compared to like +- a pancake when done by hand :P
[20:22:43] <cradek> haha hundreds of mm
[20:23:10] <mrsun> haha :P
[20:23:12] <mrsun> of a
[20:23:22] <mrsun> _a_ :P
[20:23:23] <cradek> you mean hundredths
[20:23:51] <mrsun> haha maybe =)
[20:26:22] <elmo40> for anyone in the UK. Just came across this : http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=18&Itemid=20
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[20:29:08] <andypugh> I like the LandyLift. I wonder how much he would charge to take my Dad's spare Shaper away?
[20:29:48] <andypugh> (Talking of which, does anyone want a shaper?. We re-scraped the slides about 20 years ago, and it has hardly done any work since)
[20:31:08] <skunkworks> already have 2...
[20:34:09] <andypugh> A CNC shaper could be quite useful. You could slot-out dies and/or cut gear etc.
[20:34:35] <andypugh> I guess you would use feed-per-rev and an encoder that only incremented on the return stroke?
[20:37:09] <skunkworks> I would just cnc all 3 axis. then have quite a stout little machine.
[20:37:20] <skunkworks> (mount a spindle on the head)
[20:41:43] <andypugh> Then you would have Deckel..
[20:42:25] <andypugh> But there are (a few) things that can be shaped but not milled.
[20:44:49] <skunkworks> sure
[20:45:08] <skunkworks> but we have not used our shaper in years also... ;)
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[21:21:38] <A2Sheds> interesting discussion with Parker and that servo controller
[21:25:17] <A2Sheds> basically an amplified with some program control of IO's so you won't need a PLC for some simple operations
[21:25:33] <A2Sheds> amplified/amplifier
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[21:48:53] <Tom_itx> are there any decent videos demonstrating the scraping process?
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[21:56:35] <andypugh> Tom_itx: This looks instructive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1eOQa1gYiU might answer some of mrsun 's questions too.
[21:57:09] <Tom_itx> i've never tried it yet
[21:58:55] <JT-Shop> one stump out 4 to go :/
[21:59:09] <Tom_itx> just not happy moving dirt around?
[21:59:24] <JT-Shop> the stumps are in the way of moving dirt
[21:59:41] <Tom_itx> see that barrel of gunpowder?
[21:59:54] <JT-Shop> too expensive
[22:00:08] <Tom_itx> much more exciting
[22:00:16] <JT-Shop> that it is
[22:00:33] <JT-Shop> we are working on a explosive bucket launcher
[22:02:27] <andypugh> Interesting, he makes himself a straightedge using a shaper...
[22:03:50] * JT-Shop waits for it to load
[22:04:05] <JT-Shop> I need to scrap my cross slide on the Samson
[22:04:26] <andypugh> It is a lathe cross-slide he is doing
[22:05:36] * JT-Shop just looked to see that I have gobs of room on the back side of the cross slide for servo motor
[22:05:43] <Tom_itx> i see lots of blisters in the process
[22:06:02] <JT-Shop> I have a few carbide scrapers and they really cut
[22:12:39] <andypugh> I don't want this guy's job http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=ZTru-KEdaR8
[22:13:35] <Tom_itx> job security
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[22:21:50] <JT-Shop> never does seem to download for me
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[22:29:02] <JT-Shop> s/scrap/scrape
[22:30:53] <andypugh> JT-Shop: For a lathe cross-slide conversion I like the idea of a rotating nut and a ballscrew rigidly mounted to the saddle. You are not trying to squeeze an undersize nut inside the dovetail then.
[22:31:17] <andypugh> The nut goes on the back of the saddle, driven by a toothed belt.
[22:31:28] <JT-Shop> that makes sense
[22:31:52] <andypugh> I wish I could figure out a way to twist a toothed belt through 90 degrees
[22:32:05] <JT-Shop> that would be a trick to see
[22:33:09] <andypugh> I have seen a system for conveyors etc using conical rollers, but that has a lot of distance between shafts
[22:34:33] <JT-Shop> I don't quite understand, having the shafts at 90° to each other should be easy
[22:35:07] <Tom_itx> idler pullies?
[22:35:23] <JT-Shop> or do you mean one vertical and one horizontal
[22:35:35] <Tom_itx> i'm sure the belt wouldn't last though
[22:41:45] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I mean non-parallel in general. It seems easy until you try to make it work.
[22:42:20] <Tom_itx> andy you mean the flat cog belts?
[22:42:28] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure they're meant to twist
[22:42:35] <andypugh> Yes
[22:42:50] <JT-Shop> yea, non parallel is a pia
[22:42:59] <Tom_itx> you'd need guides on the pulleys if it did at all
[22:43:05] <Tom_itx> at least one side anyway
[22:43:45] <andypugh> The exact example I wanted was a pulley on a lathe cross-slide leadscrew with the servo below it, and with the servo axis parallel to Z.
[22:44:36] <JT-Shop> both shafts in the same plane but 90° out should be easy
[22:44:40] <andypugh> If you have a pair of pulleys and a belt, have a fiddle.
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[22:45:49] <andypugh> I tried it in CAD, modelling both edges and the middle, then measuring the lengths.
[22:45:50] <JT-Shop> Andy is talking in tongue now
[22:46:48] <JT-Shop> I'm just playing with a timing belt with my fingers as pulleys
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[22:47:32] <JT-Shop> it would not be the best layout but should work if both pulleys have sides
[22:48:11] <Tom_itx> it may wear on the edge of the belt if not exactly squared
[22:48:52] <andypugh> I thought it worked with fingers as pulleys too :-)
[22:49:54] <JT-Shop> only problem is my fingers don't have slots for the cogs
[22:50:42] <andypugh> They would with enough belt tension
[22:51:00] <JT-Shop> so what do you guys think of the PDF's being one master document "EMC Documents"?
[22:51:23] <Tom_itx> if it has good search tags in it
[22:51:34] <andypugh> Mild disapproval. But very mild, as I don't use the PDFs
[22:51:47] <Tom_itx> i'd sooner use html over pdf
[22:52:12] <JT-Shop> well it would provide search tags for the whole document chain including html docs
[22:52:51] <JT-Shop> now you can only link within a single pdf which limits it in the html
[22:53:07] <andypugh> There are ways round that, using a pdx
[22:53:16] <JT-Shop> Andy what is the objection?
[22:53:38] <andypugh> Our ECU documentation (4000 pages) is about 40 documents, but with a common index
[22:53:47] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop it doesn't matter to me. i just ask here anyway :)
[22:53:52] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I fear change
[22:54:04] * JT-Shop googles pdx but comes up short
[22:54:20] <JT-Shop> it has all ready happened
[22:54:24] <Danimal_garage|2> hi John
[22:54:30] <JT-Shop> and I don't like the result
[22:54:33] <JT-Shop> hi Dan
[22:54:44] <Tom_itx> Product Data Exchange
[22:55:09] <JT-Shop> is it open source?
[22:55:16] <andypugh> JT-Shop: http://www.adobe.com/uk/epaper/tips/acr5search/printable.html
[22:55:16] <Tom_itx> Priority Document Exchange
[22:55:20] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[22:56:14] <andypugh> There might not be an OSS equivalent.
[22:56:20] <JT-Shop> yea, it has to be open source or it won't fly
[22:57:20] <JT-Shop> but one never knows what will fly and what won't :/
[22:58:46] <JT-Shop> so anyway having one PDF will give the HTML's better links as you can link to anything and are not limited to just the contents in the master PDF document as now
[23:03:32] <JT-Shop> then I could fix all the links I broke over the years and jepler would not be sore at me anymore :)
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[23:07:52] <andypugh> http://www.sdp-si.com/web/html/newprdbelts6.htm
[23:08:53] <andypugh> They also do a ladder-style belt for twisted/3D applications
[23:09:00] <andypugh> http://www.sdp-si.com/d790/html1/D790C02192_7.html
[23:09:30] <JT-Shop> neat!
[23:09:47] <Tom_itx> i noticed that first one the other day and wondered about it
[23:11:16] <JT-Shop> first what?
[23:11:46] <Tom_itx> the cable drive thing
[23:14:34] <JT-Shop> dang I've been working on the docs since 2008
[23:15:17] <Tom_itx> you should be about done by now then
[23:15:33] <JT-Shop> doesn't seem like it...
[23:17:39] <JT-Shop> I like this commit on 8-24-2008 "fix the fix"
[23:21:37] <Jymmm> heh
[23:22:19] <Jymmm> Man, I wish I had SS wire equipment
[23:22:33] <Danimal_garage|2> JT-Shop: the hiller got the tank down to 57f so far, and it's 80 in here
[23:23:04] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: when you get to -10c, then it'll be beer o clock
[23:23:36] <Danimal_garage|2> there's a little ice around the wand
[23:23:52] <Jymmm> oh, well toss in the beers then!!!
[23:24:19] <Danimal_garage|2> riiiggghhtttt
[23:24:51] <Danimal_garage|2> JT-Shop: http://www.flickr.com/photos/66828621@N02/sets/72157627994062522/
[23:26:26] <Valen> beer?
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[23:31:26] <andypugh> Danimal_garage|2: It looks unnaturally clean
[23:32:47] <Danimal_garage|2> hasnt been used yet
[23:32:58] <Valen> no beer?
[23:33:00] <Valen> :-<
[23:33:06] <Valen> <- australian ;->
[23:33:57] <Valen> Danimal_garage|2: mmm aerated acid
[23:34:11] <Valen> bags not being a metal component within 20ft lol
[23:37:07] <JT-Shop> nice Dan
[23:38:14] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: maybe I am done but don't know it yet... I was told that I could have different html parallel document if I liked
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[23:39:23] <JT-Shop> Dan what make the swirl pattern in the water?
[23:39:39] <Tom_itx> vibration
[23:39:54] <Danimal_garage|2> the pump circulating
[23:40:15] <Danimal_garage|2> there's a pvc grid with holes in it on the bottom of the tank
[23:40:15] <JT-Shop> ah
[23:40:30] <Danimal_garage|2> that way it gets fairly even agetation
[23:40:45] <Danimal_garage|2> i'm about to try a couple parts
[23:40:49] <JT-Shop> looks even to me
[23:41:05] <Danimal_garage|2> yea, this aint my first rodeo lol
[23:41:10] <JT-Shop> is that acid in there
[23:41:14] <Danimal_garage|2> yes
[23:41:28] <Danimal_garage|2> thyere's a lead sheet on each side for cathodes
[23:42:15] <Danimal_garage|2> i trimmed a strip along the top and left it attached on one end and ran it through the big fitting on the top so i can have the electrical connection outside the tank wit hthe lid closed
[23:42:26] <Danimal_garage|2> there's only 2 racks in the pics, but i have 3
[23:42:56] <Danimal_garage|2> the chiller is just shoved in there for now, i want to see how well it keeps up before i make a mount for it
[23:44:09] <Valen> I always figured lead annode wouldn't work as well as Al
[23:44:17] <Valen> what power supply are you using?
[23:45:04] <emcrules_cad> Tom_itx: would you build one offs?
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[23:46:08] <Tom_itx> emcrules_cad huh?
[23:46:43] <emcrules_cad> One off board for micro controllers
[23:46:55] <Tom_itx> i have
[23:46:59] <Tom_itx> you can
[23:47:13] <Tom_itx> there's a reasonable service for one off boards
[23:47:22] <Tom_itx> good quality but purple mask
[23:47:30] <emcrules_cad> I can just dont have time or propper setup
[23:47:32] <Tom_itx> $5 sq in and you get 3 back
[23:47:45] <emcrules_cad> not too bad
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[23:48:38] <Danimal_garage|2> astron vs50m
[23:48:39] <Tom_itx> http://dorkbotpdx.org/wiki/pcb_order
[23:48:52] <Danimal_garage|2> lead works good, it doesn't corrode
[23:49:03] <Danimal_garage|2> lasts longer, i don't have to pull it out and dick with it
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[23:49:17] <Danimal_garage|2> i've used it for a couple years
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