#emc | Logs for 2011-10-22

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[00:00:08] <andypugh> For a suitably incorrect definition of the word "fact" yes.
[00:00:30] <Jymmm> $20 via paypal for the first one to provide me a dos.iso file.
[00:00:41] <Jymmm> that works.
[00:00:48] <Jymmm> USD
[00:01:51] <Tom_itx> dos 7?
[00:02:01] <andypugh> Jymmm: Check your DCC
[00:02:13] <Jymmm> andypugh: Can't DCC (firewall)
[00:02:13] <alex_joni> Jymmm: http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/iso.html
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[00:05:07] <Tom_itx> what was the last one to have bin2exe?
[00:05:33] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: 4.01 iirc
[00:05:52] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: but it only works in the bin is under 34 or 64 KB
[00:05:58] <Jymmm> s/in/if/
[00:06:15] <andypugh> 64k! You can do a playab;e game of chess in 1k
[00:06:28] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i know
[00:06:41] <Tom_itx> basically a com file
[00:06:50] <andypugh> (And that 1k included 604 bytes of screen memory)
[00:07:03] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Most of the bat2com utilities have a 24KB overhead
[00:08:33] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: You want a nice FDD2IMG utility for dos and all version of windows?
[00:09:33] <Tom_itx> i'm all about utilities
[00:10:19] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: hang on
[00:12:44] <Tom_itx> if you have a dvd with a mediateck chipset you can likely flash pc bios
[00:12:53] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/mtkflash/flash_howto_index.php
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[00:13:09] <Tom_itx> i made one for the chip on that lcd display
[00:13:14] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: oh hell, they took down the archive
[00:14:31] <Tom_itx> i had to add a socket to it
[00:15:10] <andypugh> That's impressively committed of you.
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[00:29:02] <Jymmm> Ok, where can I upload a binary file to these days?
[00:29:36] <Tom_itx> i put em on my server
[00:30:55] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: http://www.2shared.com/file/i6jFGyXh/FIRM.html
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[00:31:36] <Jymmm> 14,672 bytes
[00:32:38] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Nothing to install, runs in dos or dos window. if there are ANY failures at all, it's a defective floppy. Replace and try again.
[00:33:14] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Unlike DOS, this utility will pevent you from writting to a defective floppy.
[00:33:18] <andypugh> alex_joni: Dud you get your $20?
[00:33:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: 3.5 5.25 dos, win, mac floppies doesn't matter.
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[00:34:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you can also write 5.25 to 3.5 if you want
[00:34:57] <Tom_itx> ok
[00:35:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I use the extension .IMG just so it's easy to recall
[00:35:54] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you can zip the img file it creates to half size too
[00:36:01] <Jymmm> 720KB
[00:36:28] <Tom_itx> not something you'd need every day nowdays
[00:37:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: It's how I've archived all my floppies over the years. It's also how I email bootable fdd's to ppl all self contained.
[00:37:21] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I own pkzip 2.04g
[00:37:39] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: which supports LFN and is still 16bit
[00:38:39] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: there is still some gear out there that want a REAL FDD to flash the firmware *sadly enough*
[00:39:25] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Actually, out counties 911 dispatch center uses DOS
[00:39:29] <Jymmm> our
[00:39:39] <Jymmm> it just works, period.
[00:39:53] <Tom_itx> no funds to update?
[00:40:26] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: No, they've won awards for being the only 911 callcenter with an uptime of 99.99%
[00:40:39] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: it was intensional.
[00:40:57] <andypugh> 911 dispatch? Emergency Porsches?
[00:41:15] <Jymmm> andypugh: 911 in the US is 999 in UK I think?
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[00:42:07] <andypugh> Aye, or 112
[00:42:17] <andypugh> I think they all work now
[00:42:33] <Jymmm> "Calls to the European Union standard emergency number 112 are automatically routed to 999 operators."
[00:42:43] <Jymmm> wikipedia ^^^
[00:43:04] <andypugh> In the days of dial phones and click-bang exchanges 999 was almost the slowest possible number to dial :-)
[00:43:38] <Tom_itx> heh
[00:43:41] <Tom_itx> no kidding
[00:43:45] <Jymmm> I just want to know if they RECORD the call while you are on hold before they've answered.
[00:46:22] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-heavy-duty-pry-bar-set-1654.html?utm_source=hftusa&utm_medium=hftusa&utm_campaign=buylink
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[00:47:59] <Jymmm> or save a buck $5.99 http://www.harborfreight.com/retail-flyer page 2
[00:48:46] <Jymmm> argh, 50% off coupn flyer
[00:48:51] <Jymmm> coupon
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[00:53:31] <Jymmm> Question... What could I do to this http://www.harborfreight.com/15-1-2-half-inch-heavy-duty-pry-bar-2529.html so that I could use this http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-heavy-duty-pry-bar-set-1654.html#pr-header-1654 as an extension?
[00:54:27] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: What's your obsession with crow/pry bars?
[00:54:32] <andypugh> Wow! an 18V drill for £10. That must have almost 10 amp-minutes capacity.
[00:54:40] <Jymmm> Add a piece of pipe? Some clamp? I don't want to take away from the wonderbar's usefulness
[00:54:55] <andypugh> Leave him, it's less scary than the knives and machetes
[00:54:55] <Jymmm> andypugh: they actually say it works pretty well.
[00:55:02] <Tom_itx> Jymmm nothing
[00:55:08] <Tom_itx> they are fine tools as they are
[00:55:31] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: No, I want to extend the length
[00:55:39] <Jymmm> temporarily
[00:55:50] <Tom_itx> so just buy a longer one
[00:55:50] <Jymmm> for leverage
[00:56:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I dont want a longer one, that's the point.
[00:56:23] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Cut it down the middle, make a temporary weld of a suspension spring.
[00:57:10] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: no cutting/wleding, drilling ok
[00:57:16] <andypugh> http://www.screwfix.com/p/roughneck-gorilla-bar-48/29330
[00:57:25] <Danimal_garage|2> dammit, cant find my broach!
[00:57:29] <Danimal_garage|2> grrr
[00:57:40] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Fasten the suspension spring to it with a pair of very solid C-clamps?
[00:57:45] <andypugh> Danimal_garage|2: What do you broach?
[00:57:50] <Jymmm> andypugh: I saw those last week, a bit too long
[00:58:05] <andypugh> Good machine-mover
[00:58:08] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: And call your health insurance to see if you're covered for lost fingers.
[00:58:15] <Danimal_garage|2> just this one part i'm making for someone
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[00:58:28] <andypugh> Keyway?
[00:58:42] <Jymmm> I wonder if I could find a hella-stong ring of sorts?
[00:58:55] <Tom_itx> ship anchor chain
[00:58:56] <Jymmm> strong
[00:59:16] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: like a 6" piece of gas pipe 2" diameter
[00:59:22] <Danimal_garage|2> yes
[00:59:28] <andypugh> Jymmm: http://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-fatmax-xl-fubar/83871
[00:59:45] <Jymmm> but would the pipe start to split under pry force?
[00:59:50] <Danimal_garage|2> i just saw the damn thing
[01:00:00] <andypugh> Jymmm: Not unless you are extra strong
[01:00:02] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: How much force do you plan to put on it?
[01:00:13] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: 600lbs+
[01:00:27] <Tom_itx> good luck with that
[01:00:37] <andypugh> If you are going to extend that one you keep showing, you will straighten the end out before you break the pipe
[01:00:43] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Applied force or delivered force?
[01:01:32] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: delivered
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[01:01:46] <FinboySlick> Hmmm...
[01:01:52] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yeah, I'm hoping that won't be the case though.
[01:02:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: mind telling your irc client to stop trying to send me files I cna't receive please
[01:02:34] <andypugh> You asked, nay, _demanded_ them
[01:02:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: and I told you I can't do DCC due to firewall
[01:03:00] <andypugh> (Didn't realise the window was still there)
[01:03:23] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: IRC conntrack ;)
[01:03:40] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=HT+BARS&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=55-122&SDesc=Stanley%26%23174%3B+Fubar%26%23174%3B+Forcible+Entry+Tool+-+30%22
[01:03:46] <Danimal_garage|2> ah, found it!
[01:03:48] <Danimal_garage|2> yay
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[01:04:12] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Intensional chain
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[01:04:59] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: The one I keep yankin'? ;)
[01:05:16] <andypugh> Jymmm: That looks effective
[01:05:57] <FinboySlick> BTW, anyone here experienced with recycling DVD burner lasers into dangerous things?
[01:06:09] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yeah, though I'd prefer something with a dead blow to it. but $$$$$$$$$
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[01:06:36] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: instructbles.com has shitloads, probably YT too
[01:07:03] <Jymmm> andypugh: This is nice... http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.cfm/pid_2022_paratech_pry_axe_choose_standard_claw_or_metal_cutting_claw_or_get_both_at_a_very_attractive_price_/
[01:07:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.paratech.com/#/Forcible%20Entry%20Tools/Personal/Pry-Axe/
[01:08:09] <FinboySlick> Yeah, of course. I'm interested in the finer points though. Pulsing, etc. I'd be looking for short bursts of power.
[01:08:32] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: wouldn't that be firmware specific?
[01:09:07] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Well, the firmware is long gone. I just have the laser diode and three pins here ;)
[01:09:13] <Jymmm> ah
[01:09:42] <Jymmm> This looks fun... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAzOz1ee71c&feature=related
[01:09:53] <andypugh> Jymmm: They are very expensive, but I guess the payback time on burglaries is fairly short :-)
[01:10:15] <Jymmm> andypugh: HAHAHAHA, I wish there was a payback =)
[01:10:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: For that, I'd just use a cordless drill if that was the case
[01:11:46] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfwQm3pDwaA
[01:12:16] <andypugh> My uncle had the top cut off his car. He wasn't best pleased. His passengers legs didn't work when they _started_ the journey..
[01:12:31] <Jymmm> doh
[01:13:35] <Jymmm> andypugh: "PRT" in that video is what I'd be interested in, but that video sucks
[01:14:24] <Jymmm> andypugh: GREAT video of that stanley fubar tool... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIRABx3CgyU&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL2BDF2482D9533246
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[01:16:00] <andypugh> He's a beefy 14yo
[01:16:28] <Jymmm> heh
[01:17:11] <andypugh> And I think a conventional sledge would work as well.
[01:18:59] <Jymmm> sure, as would a jackhammer =)
[01:19:19] <Jymmm> but too heavy to carry in a pack
[01:19:26] <Jymmm> 8.5 lbs
[01:19:38] <andypugh> You get the 14yo to carry it for you
[01:19:55] <Jymmm> but then I'd have to carry his video games
[01:20:44] <Jymmm> 1.1 lbs http://www.harborfreight.com/15-1-2-half-inch-heavy-duty-pry-bar-2529.html
[01:21:23] <andypugh> I don't see how they can call that "Heavy Duty"
[01:21:54] <Jymmm> I can't see how they call it a prybar either, but eh.
[01:22:25] <Jymmm> startname for one of these is a "wonder bar"
[01:22:29] <Jymmm> street name
[01:23:08] <Tom_itx> is there a grey market for em?
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[01:23:21] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: for which?
[01:23:35] <Tom_itx> that they have a 'street name'
[01:24:22] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: the mfgs call them by a dozen different names, in construction they call them wonderbars not to be confused with real pry or crowbars
[01:24:35] <Jymmm> or wrecking bars, etc
[01:24:54] <Jymmm> it's a glorified nail puller
[01:25:35] <Jymmm> the funny thing is the HF one has more of a angle than te expensive stanley one
[01:25:53] <Tom_itx> not when you're done with it
[01:25:55] <Jymmm> for leverage
[01:26:19] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'll find out when I test it how much it bends/cracks =)
[01:27:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: did you see the "test till destroyed" videos?
[01:27:27] <Tom_itx> no
[01:27:41] <Tom_itx> i've seen plenty of destructive testing though
[01:27:53] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: a $20 USD knife... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_m4xErfJXw
[01:28:00] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: in 6 parts.
[01:29:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: he beats the f*ck out of it, and is still usable
[01:30:30] <andypugh> Yeah, not my kind of guy...
[01:30:55] <Jymmm> andypugh: I think it's to prevent swarf from flying in his face, etc
[01:31:13] <Jymmm> concrete too
[01:32:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: your DCC window is still open btw.
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[01:33:41] <andypugh> Extreme measures...
[01:33:48] <Jymmm> heh
[01:34:10] <Jymmm> Ilove when he cuts the tube in half
[01:39:01] <Danimal_garage|2> i need an arbor press!
[01:39:24] <andypugh> Watching 4. It would be shorter if he had more physical fitness
[01:39:25] <Danimal_garage|2> luckily this piece was aluminum so i could broach it using the bridgeport quill as a "press"
[01:39:37] <Jymmm> =)
[01:40:35] <Danimal_garage|2> i launched a 4" diameter 6" long piece of aluminum out of the lathe today
[01:40:39] <Danimal_garage|2> it was pretty cool
[01:40:49] <Jymmm> glowing red?
[01:40:54] <andypugh> Cool that it missed you, yes.
[01:41:21] <Danimal_garage|2> no my manual lathe isnt fast enough to make anythnig glow red
[01:41:22] <Jymmm> andypugh: Danimal_garage|2 has nine fingers now
[01:41:38] <Danimal_garage|2> Jymmm: i had 9 (working) fingers before that
[01:41:50] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: =)
[01:42:13] <Danimal_garage|2> andypugh: where's your sense of adventure?
[01:42:23] <andypugh> I went to the hospital for an X-ray last week. They said it would take 3 weeks to send them to my doc. That just makes no sense.
[01:42:42] <Danimal_garage|2> i was taking a .250" DOC on the lathe
[01:42:56] <Jymmm> radiologist report usually
[01:42:57] <Danimal_garage|2> i had the part completely in the jaws all the way back to the chuck too
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[01:43:21] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: loosed instead of tightened the jaws?
[01:43:29] <andypugh> 3 weeks would be a long time to walk around on a broken leg.
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[01:44:01] <Tom_itx> Danimal_garage|2, i did that one time on a mill
[01:44:15] <Tom_itx> someone came up to talk to me as i was changing parts
[01:44:29] <Tom_itx> a stack of plates
[01:44:36] <Danimal_garage|2> Jymmm: no, i'm not that Polish
[01:44:49] <Tom_itx> i sent a couple thru the back of the machine when the shell mill hit them
[01:45:03] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: hahahaa
[01:45:29] <Danimal_garage|2> Tom_itx: at my very first job, i left some parts on a shelf in the blanchard grinder. someone went to use it, and it flung the parts and took the door off
[01:45:56] <Danimal_garage|2> they were probably 20lb disks
[01:46:15] <Danimal_garage|2> the blanchard grinder had a 36" wheel
[01:46:20] <Danimal_garage|2> fyi
[01:46:41] <Tom_itx> i heard storries of a flywheel coming loose on a drop hammer at a place i worked once and went thru the shop wall
[01:47:08] <Danimal_garage|2> nice
[01:47:11] <Tom_itx> you could see where they brazed it all back together
[01:48:01] <andypugh> Flywheels are scary. There is no limit to how much power you can extract from one, except shearing the shaft.
[01:48:21] <Danimal_garage|2> i remember we had this air compressor for a submarine in the shop, and one of the guys was disassembling it, and we were told it was discharged, but as he got to the last bolt on the end plate, it shot off and went through the wall
[01:48:26] <Tom_itx> they had 3 phase channels running along the celing and one day a forklift driver poked one
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[01:48:38] <Danimal_garage|2> it was probably 18" in diameter, 1.5" thick
[01:49:06] <Tom_itx> this flywheel was probably 4-5' diameter
[01:49:10] <Tom_itx> or more
[01:49:28] <Tom_itx> it was old equipment
[01:49:33] <Tom_itx> ww2 era i'd guess
[01:50:02] <andypugh> I built a machine once with a 3000rpm 100kg (220lb) flywheel linked to a pneumatic clutch linked to a cam. You operated the clutch by clicking a mouse in a GUI. I have never been quite so scared by a mouse click.
[01:50:08] <Jymmm> 5ft diameter flywheel on a sub compressor?
[01:50:21] <Tom_itx> no Jymmm
[01:50:25] <Tom_itx> on a drop hammer
[01:50:30] <Jymmm> oh
[01:50:48] <Jymmm> i was gonna say DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN
[01:52:30] <Tom_itx> i wasn't there when it happened
[01:58:55] <FinboySlick> Sort of makes me think of the redneck wood splitter.
[02:02:18] <FinboySlick> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40sCGb678sQ in case there's someone left on earth unfamiliar with this modern wonder of work safety.
[02:08:59] <andypugh> It might not be as bad as it looks.
[02:09:15] <FinboySlick> Until you trip and lean on the table ;)
[02:09:50] <FinboySlick> I still think it's awesome of course.
[02:09:55] <andypugh> It isn't moving fast, so the only danger is getting your hand dragged through the hole, and I _think_ it is big enough to keep half your digits.
[02:10:39] <FinboySlick> Hehehe, you go first.
[02:11:14] <FinboySlick> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i5ZKITP5ws is pretty awesome too.
[02:11:43] <FinboySlick> (nevermind the music)
[02:12:56] <andypugh> Similar concept in Robotwars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzraVXP-5KQ
[02:13:41] <FinboySlick> Hypnodisk did quite well in that series.
[02:13:48] <FinboySlick> hypno disc that is.
[02:26:28] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CvT0tLQB1I (SMIDSY was my robot)
[02:27:11] <FinboySlick> andypugh: You one of these three guys?
[02:27:35] <andypugh> One in the middle with the beard
[02:27:51] <FinboySlick> Awesome, I'm pretty sure I remember watching you when it aired :)
[02:29:00] <andypugh> Another video has a comment saying that we were the best robot never to escape the heats, which seems fair.
[02:29:46] <FinboySlick> How dangerous were they anyway? They always seemed to me likre being a bit more for show.
[02:29:50] <andypugh> OK, the _other_ one with the beard, who never says anything.
[02:30:43] <FinboySlick> I dreamed of designing one that would kill one of the house robots ;)
[02:30:45] <andypugh> The robots? Some were properly dangerous. The big pneumatic axes could have killed you.
[02:30:56] <FinboySlick> I meant the flames.
[02:31:06] <FinboySlick> The robots looked plenty dangerous.
[02:31:31] <andypugh> The flames were no problem, we had mesh over all our vents (Davy Safety lamp style)
[02:32:56] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Wow... I'm envious, I really dreamed of competing in that show.
[02:34:12] <andypugh> It just took a bunch of time and money. We were lucky that 200 people on a bike mailing list bunged £10 each into the pot. :-)
[02:34:28] <FinboySlick> I imagine.
[02:34:43] <andypugh> But that was the sort of budget.
[02:35:33] <FinboySlick> I still have a pretty clever high-mass spinner design stashed somewhere.
[02:36:25] <andypugh> I want to make a jaws-of-life style 2-wheeler. Just an _enormous_ set of jaws acting as chassis and everything.
[02:36:52] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Let's start a new international league!
[02:37:56] <andypugh> I could make a much better one now, with the equipment and knowledge I have built up since.
[02:38:43] <FinboySlick> I wonder why the show faded, it was quite popular where I lived.
[02:38:55] <andypugh> Copyright disputes
[02:39:21] <FinboySlick> Damn lawyers.
[02:39:50] <andypugh> Imagine robotwars with Arduinos..
[02:40:28] <FinboySlick> As in autonomous, or merely how much easier it would make the electronics side of things?
[02:40:41] <andypugh> We had all sorts of problems with proprietary interfaces.
[02:41:43] <andypugh> The Radio to Electronic Potentiometer link board was cheap enough, but fragile and supply was very limited.
[02:42:22] <andypugh> And we had to do mixing in the transmitter.
[02:42:27] <FinboySlick> andypugh: I assumed you used standard RC radios.
[02:43:06] <andypugh> Some did, a lot had an RC servo turning a physical potentiometer linked to a golf-buggy controller.
[02:43:53] <andypugh> Which, actually, isn't a bad system, as it is very resistant to RF noise
[02:44:25] <andypugh> And as long as the reciever sees more forwards than back, you go forwards.
[02:44:44] <FinboySlick> My design didn't require power control on the main drive so it could have been relay-driven.
[02:45:14] <andypugh> Nowadays, you would use a smart filter in the onboard electronics. (which would be an Arduino, just because you can buy and program a spare in a hurry)
[02:45:41] <andypugh> Sump Thing used 4 starter motors. A forwards and a reverse one for each wheel :-)
[02:46:11] <FinboySlick> Clever. And they have lots of torque.
[02:46:25] <FinboySlick> I wouldn't have thought of those.
[02:48:22] <andypugh> Well, they are very heavy, very inefficient, and you need one for each direction. So not the best choice, but cheap.
[02:48:44] <andypugh> The 100kg weight limit was the real problem.
[02:49:07] <FinboySlick> I'd say challenge more than problem.
[02:50:00] <FinboySlick> I love how compact and sturdy SMIDSY was.
[02:50:34] <andypugh> It was _full_
[02:50:46] <andypugh> It took 3 of us 24 hours solid to strip and rebuld.
[02:51:11] <FinboySlick> I assume you guys kept it.
[02:51:28] <andypugh> No, we sold it to someone who campaigns it in the hobby circuit
[02:52:11] <FinboySlick> I should look around Canada, maybe we have a similar hobby circuit.
[02:56:01] <andypugh> Cool! Robots fighting their way out of a caravan http://www.youtube.com/user/roamingrobots#p/u/8/xVoGlHq8t3M
[03:00:05] <andypugh> Anyway, time to sleep
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[10:59:52] <|n0b0dy|> how does the file->properties cut time calculate?
[11:00:16] <|n0b0dy|> someone did a halftone drawing and it took alot longer than 8 mins :D
[11:00:31] <jthornton> it does not take into account acceleration or deceleration
[11:00:49] <jthornton> only sums the rapids and feed moves
[11:01:05] <|n0b0dy|> rgr
[11:01:39] <jthornton> so it will never take less than and always take more than the time shown
[11:01:49] <|n0b0dy|> Laughing Out Loud yea
[11:02:19] <|n0b0dy|> it was a slower machine... 3 inch/s/s
[11:02:36] <|n0b0dy|> just curious
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[13:12:33] <Tom_itx> jthornton aren't there some fudge factor values you can enter in the ini?
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[14:31:27] <jthornton> not that I know of
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[15:10:53] <geo01005> has anyone used EMC2 for cell based manufacturing with multiple EMC2 controlled machines?
[15:11:41] <geo01005> I understand that was one of the main points to the original EMC project, that concept seems to have been lost in the development of emc2,
[15:12:00] <geo01005> or at least those who have done it haven't documented it.
[15:15:57] <awallin_> not many hobbyists have pallet-changers, robot-hands, etc. that move workpieces from one machine to another..
[15:15:57] <archivist> not sure using in a cell needs separate docs as it can respond to pins and set pins which can be connected between machines
[15:16:29] <archivist> see also classic ladder
[15:17:54] <geo01005> yes, simple things can be handled with discrete IO, but things like synchronized motion between two machines would be quite difficult.
[15:18:55] <geo01005> an extreme example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOESSCXGhFo
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[15:21:07] <geo01005> I was under the impression that this type of synchronization in a cell was the whole point of the NML structure.
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[15:46:00] <geo01005> of course these sort of application go beyond wanting to use EMC for hobby use.
[15:46:34] <geo01005> It is unclear how far into the "non-hobby" use of emc developers would like to go.
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[16:14:48] <archivist> there are a number using emc in production environments
[16:16:03] <Tom_itx> has anyone wired up a pallet changer etc that you know of?
[16:16:52] <archivist> I think skunkworks has tested his pallet iirc
[16:24:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: BeerBot http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=X7t3I674yH8
[16:26:56] <syyl> that must have been a mess to setup ;)
[16:27:01] <syyl> lot of spilled beer
[16:27:07] <JT-Shop> lol
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[16:29:17] <Tom_itx> some have jog learning
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[16:30:12] <Jymmm> Beer Bot Wenches... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP4LG64lUeA&feature=related
[16:30:50] <Gensor> Hello again! What would be the cost to freight a bridgeport interact 4000-4600 lbs from mass to south dakota palletized and/or crated? Thanks!
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[16:31:24] <Jymmm> http://www.freightcenter.com/
[16:32:44] <syyl> my last girlfriend did a better job in that, Jymmm ;)
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[16:33:05] <Jymmm> =)
[16:33:45] <syyl> time to go to the shop...
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[16:42:21] <geo01005> I suppose this describes a solution I might be interested in: http://www.mailinglistarchive.com/html/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/2011-03/msg00749.html
[16:42:56] <geo01005> "a
[16:42:57] <geo01005> very very simple motion control HAL component, which can have multiple
[16:42:59] <geo01005> instances."
[16:44:19] <geo01005> The part of the EMC2 project I like the best is the HAL.
[16:44:34] <geo01005> I think that there are quite a few people who also think that is the case.
[16:45:37] <geo01005> Perhaps a worthwhile branch of EMC2 would put all the functionality of EMC in distributed HAL components.
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[16:54:56] <tom3p> geo01005, i agree HAL is a very strong tool, i use it for non-EMC motion of simple stepper joints. i dont think all of EMC could fit well inside HAL though. ( HAL is 'subset' of EMC )
[16:54:57] <syyl_> hmm
[16:55:24] <syyl_> will a 1024 signals encoder suitable for a milling spindle, when i want to do rigid tapping?
[16:55:42] <syyl_> are there any experiences?
[16:57:39] <JT-Shop> 1024 should be fine, I think I have 2000 on my lathe iirc
[16:57:56] <syyl_> ok
[16:58:11] <syyl_> and will i get problems, if i couple it via a timing belt to the spindle?
[16:58:39] <FinboySlick> If there's a dev or two areound, I think I found the issue I had with building emc-dev. Seems the linker is missing a few -lintl options here and there. I'd like someone familiar with the build/configure script to give me a couple pointers on proper implementation of a patch (I can fix it myself but I'd like to fix it right and submit a patch).
[16:59:34] <tom3p> fwiw: theres been some talk recently about guis for hal wiring.
[16:59:42] <tom3p> i stumbled upon a manual for some math that used a beautiful system.
[16:59:50] <tom3p> this is of interest for the CNC math contained and the gui used in the example screenshots.
[16:59:59] <tom3p> http://download.rhino3d.com/en/Rhino/4.0/EssentialMathematicsSecondEdition/
[17:00:06] <tom3p> example of the gui: http://modelab.nu/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ListManagement.jpg
[17:00:13] <tom3p> (phew!)
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[17:05:18] <FinboySlick> usrmot is the first bit that is missing -lintl
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[17:56:58] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_cpCxzXbOg&feature=related now thats some spindle runout :P
[17:58:31] <Jymmm> For legos, that's probably precision
[17:58:49] <syyl_> and he takes a pretty serious chipload ;)
[17:59:37] <Jymmm> It's floral foam, smack it on your forehead and it snaps like a twig.
[18:00:51] <Jymmm> Here we go... LEGO DESTRUCTION!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AQEwofiBVU&NR=1
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[19:00:41] <n0b> someone got know what size bolt will go through a radioshack perfboard mounting holes?
[19:01:02] <n0b> will a #6 fit?
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[19:24:43] <skunkKandT> join emc-devel
[19:24:50] <skunkKandT> heh
[19:25:36] <skunkKandT> I love emc and rtai... I was surfing while machining and the browser locked up. didn't effect anything.. ;)
[19:25:54] <skunkKandT> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1susef3Bo0
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[19:28:17] <awallin_> skunkKandT: your video? looks like a home-built servo-amp?
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[19:29:31] <skunkKandT> no - just a random youtube video. sorry
[19:30:28] <skunkKandT> I have not stepped into the brushless amp world.. (other than some smallish amc drives)
[19:35:00] <skunkKandT> wait - that looks brushed
[19:35:28] <awallin_> brusched even..
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[20:37:58] <skunkKandT> first 5 tool program. so far so good ;)
[20:39:35] <n0b> I just wanna jog around the table. Will m06 by itself on a line be good enough to stop emc and bring up the tool change okay box? ie I dont need t3 or something?
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[20:42:14] <fragalot> Does anyone here recognize the make of this lathe? https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-dNBdZQ7kz7E/TqMJNvUTGgI/AAAAAAAABN4/9Ioe1kz3DS0/s800/IMG_20111022_163451.jpg
[20:44:15] <skunkKandT> fragalot: looks like a monarch..
[20:44:26] <fragalot> Hm.
[20:44:26] <skunkKandT> we have something similar
[20:44:28] <fragalot> Neat ^_^
[20:44:39] <fragalot> I love it :P
[20:44:51] <skunkKandT> very good lathe
[20:45:06] <fragalot> it's my friends' .. he's had to move the dc generator to another room because of the noise it makes :/
[20:45:48] <fragalot> doing this has resulted in the quietest lathe i've ever heard in my life O.O
[20:45:54] <fragalot> or well, not heard
[20:46:39] <skunkKandT> we got rid of the motor generator and just made up a dc speed control
[20:46:53] <skunkKandT> some day it will probably get a vfd
[20:47:01] <fragalot> he's thinking of doing that too, just wondering how
[20:47:22] <skunkKandT> if you still want to use the 2 speed gearbox - you would need to do some machining
[20:47:25] <skunkKandT> iirc
[20:48:14] <fragalot> hm. I do quite like that feature :/
[20:48:17] <skunkKandT> and yes - it is pretty quiet with just the dc motor running
[20:48:54] <skunkKandT> it would be a he4ck of a machine to cnc.. but the purist would be upset. ;)
[20:49:09] <fragalot> lol yeah
[20:49:25] <fragalot> but to be fair, that machine already has a lot of tools to assist you when making something
[20:49:43] <fragalot> like a nice stop on all of the axis so you don't have to worry too much about going too far
[20:50:02] <fragalot> I miss that on new conventional lathes :/
[20:50:10] <skunkKandT> yes
[20:50:38] <skunkKandT> for some reason I don't have a picture of the whole lathe..
[20:50:39] <skunkKandT> http://electronicsam.com/images/monarch/saddle.jpg
[20:51:08] <skunkKandT> http://electronicsam.com/images/monarch/gearbox.jpg
[20:51:11] <fragalot> seems to be .. missing bits
[20:51:34] <skunkKandT> it got dropped
[20:51:36] <skunkKandT> ;)
[20:51:40] <skunkKandT> why we got it so cheap
[20:51:43] <fragalot> lol
[20:52:01] <fragalot> should be an easy part to replace i'd imagine?
[20:52:07] <andypugh> n0b: Not sure I understand the question, but M6 won't do anything unless it causes a tool _change_
[20:52:20] <skunkKandT> well - we got it working - using it ever sense.
[20:52:35] <fragalot> :D
[20:52:41] <fragalot> On a different matter
[20:52:56] <andypugh> Typical American lathe, with the saddle traverse handle exactly where all the hot chips fall.
[20:52:58] <fragalot> anyone here able to suggest me a decent mini lathe? (desktop sized)
[20:53:05] <fragalot> andypugh: haha
[20:53:24] <fragalot> andypugh: that's why it's got the feed handle further away
[20:54:12] <andypugh> Seriously, American lathes have saddle on left hand, slide on right, UK lathes have them the other way round (In general) with the saddle traverse at the tailstock end of the apron.
[20:54:58] <fragalot> I've used both.. on the monarch it's not too bad to be fair
[20:55:26] <fragalot> then again I mostly use the feed :/
[20:55:29] <andypugh> http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/shop/Colchester_Mk1.jpg as an example
[20:55:42] <andypugh> I suspect it is hard to switch?
[20:55:44] <fragalot> so. desktop sized lathes, anyone? :P
[20:55:58] <andypugh> All the desktop lathes are equally rubbish.
[20:56:06] <andypugh> (amongst the new ones, anyway)
[20:56:18] <fragalot> andypugh: Well i'm looking for an "almost not rubbish" one
[20:56:19] <fragalot> :P
[20:56:26] <fragalot> andypugh: I don't see why it'd be hard to switch really
[20:56:52] <fragalot> if it'd also be another size, that's a different matter
[20:57:00] <andypugh> Well, it depends how much you manually generate radii by twiddling both handles at the same time.
[20:57:27] <fragalot> Ah, yeah. rarely... today actually,.. I failed.
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[20:58:01] <fragalot> making this
[20:58:02] <fragalot> https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/104171760210826658876/albums/5666382885841226817
[20:58:53] <fragalot> winged all of the dimensions as it's really only a prototype :P
[20:59:10] <skunkKandT> heat engine? or flame licker?
[20:59:19] <fragalot> skunkKandT: flame licker
[20:59:22] <skunkKandT> neat
[21:01:40] <fragalot> I just woke up this morning with the idea to make one that doesn't have a "complex" cam valve system
[21:02:18] <skunkKandT> magic?
[21:02:34] <fragalot> no, just a valve controlled by the piston itself
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[21:03:00] <skunkKandT> ah
[21:03:29] <andypugh> Like the little CO2 engines?
[21:03:49] <fragalot> when it's fully retracted, it's going to pull the valve into the closed position, when going back, air pressure will partially open the valve because it's just loose in the cylinder, and then hte piston pushes it fully open before it sucks the flame in again
[21:03:59] <fragalot> it made sense in my dream >.>
[21:04:45] <fragalot> I might have to remake either the cylinder or the piston though.. the fit is snug, but not quite as snug as i'd like it to be
[21:05:35] <fragalot> couldn't find the right tool to get up into the cylinder so it's just drilled & lapped.. not quite perfect :<
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[21:26:57] <n0b> andypugh, i'm just trying to jog the spindle around the table.... at the same height... but at each point i jog to, i want emc2 to stop, and wait for me to click okay/continue... and then it will jog to the next point and stop
[21:27:08] <n0b> and wait for a click okay
[21:27:11] <n0b> repeat
[21:27:57] <andypugh> When you say "Jog" you don't mean "jog" do you?
[21:28:31] <n0b> it's not gonna be cutting...
[21:29:01] <andypugh> Do you want to pause a G-code program until you press a button? If so, then use M0.
[21:29:13] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_main.html#sub:M0,-M1,-M2,
[21:29:43] <andypugh> "Jogging" is when you move the machine using hand controls.
[21:29:54] <n0b> oic
[21:30:01] <n0b> :D
[21:30:59] <andypugh> You need to use "S" to restart after M0
[21:31:07] <andypugh> (Other keys might work too)
[21:31:20] <n0b> that's what i'm afraid of :p
[21:31:25] <n0b> random keystroke
[21:37:44] <andypugh> Try it and see.
[21:38:26] <n0b> I'd try the trial error method, but I'm not at home... :D
[21:46:51] <n0b> thanks alot ... catch ya later
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[21:51:02] <fragalot> is it me, or does this look like an absolute bitch to make conventionally? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taMV8CcszbE&feature=fvwrel
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[22:32:13] <andypugh> fragalot: No more so than any other enormous crankshaft, I suppose.
[22:33:58] <andypugh> And it isn't as big as some: http://www.gizmag.com/go/3263/picture/6193/
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[23:29:08] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Patch! Compile! Test! I insist!
[23:30:24] <DaViruz> mmm, wrtsil diesel!
[23:30:33] <DaViruz> a finnish friend of mine works for them
[23:30:49] <DaViruz> only on land based engines though
[23:30:56] <DaViruz> mainly power generating plants
[23:32:18] <andypugh> I was once looking for info on huge diesels. I found that going to www.man.com was a serious mistake. I had to reboot the computer because mouseover windows were spawning so fast. It wasn't about engines, either.
[23:32:59] <andypugh> It seems to have changed hands, that domain.
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