#emc | Logs for 2011-10-19

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[00:03:08] <Tom_itx> DaViruz, define cheap and crappy? i've got a corsair 32g and wonder if i should be relying on it...
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[00:06:55] <andypugh> Well, all it is actually complaining about is XKB "failed to configure keymap"
[00:07:56] <andypugh> (I tried changing to a PS2 keyboard, didn't help)
[00:09:21] <andypugh> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xorg#X_failed_to_start_:_Keyboard_initialization_failed
[00:09:33] <andypugh> Aha! That means the root partition is full!
[00:09:46] <andypugh> (Can it be that simple?)
[00:10:57] <Tom_itx> haha
[00:11:03] <Tom_itx> maybe you've been coding too much
[00:13:22] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: TMP
[00:13:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: TMP
[00:14:13] <Jymmm> as in TOO MUCH PR0N
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[00:15:03] <andypugh> Argh!
[00:15:09] <andypugh> It _was_ that simple
[00:16:31] <Tom_L> hoorah
[00:16:44] <Tom_L> now get back to coding...
[00:16:45] <Tom_L> :)
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[00:17:30] <andypugh> Anyone want that replacement SSD that I ordered?
[00:17:41] <Tom_L> you better hug it
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[00:20:32] <Jymmm> The funny thing is that if he just dd'ed the drive to a file he would have found he was out of space hours ago.
[00:25:53] <andypugh> If I could have done that, I would ahve.
[00:26:30] <andypugh> I think the problem might be the 2.7GB in var/log/
[00:26:39] <andypugh> (it's only an 8GB disk)
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[01:50:52] <norias> hi
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[04:30:16] <DaViruz> Tom_itx: i'd hardly consider that cheap and crappy, i'm referring to noname stuff
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[04:39:00] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[08:17:51] <Valen> friend of mine had a bunch of bolts in the head of his bike go like this
[08:17:51] <Valen> http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab60/glenscads/Suzuki%20across/DSC04111.jpg
[08:18:00] <Valen> any suggestions as to the cause
[08:21:04] <archivist> when?
[08:22:00] <archivist> during use or when he was tightening or removing
[08:24:30] <Valen> not too sure
[08:24:31] <Valen> he was doing one up with his fingers and it snapped off
[08:24:31] <Valen> so he checked the others
[08:25:14] <archivist> if an original bolt check for recalls
[08:26:04] <archivist> have heard of bad hardening and tempering getting into vehicle production
[08:29:54] <Valen> when he was tightening
[08:30:01] <Valen> he had taken them out and was putting them back in
[08:31:57] <archivist> some people tighten with gusto and should be removed from all contact with tools :)
[08:32:53] <Valen> he was using his fingers
[08:33:01] <Valen> he is a 90lb guy
[08:33:50] <archivist> could be 90lb of muscle :)
[08:34:42] <Valen> it isnt
[08:34:44] <archivist> any way replace
[08:38:45] <archivist> a metallurgist needs to see the crack surface (also under a microscope) to see why http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fracture
[08:39:32] <Valen> they are grade 6 bolts torqued to .8kg/meter
[08:39:43] <Valen> so yeah somewhat curious
[08:39:53] <archivist> the metallurgist from the local Toyota plant used to come to see us where I worked, he had some stories
[08:40:34] <Valen> fatigue is weird
[08:40:59] <archivist> I know
[08:41:05] * Loetmichel hat a full packet of M8 8,8 screws once, tightened one-handed with a 1/4" ratchet... *KNACK*
[08:41:20] <Loetmichel> the whole box...
[08:41:33] <psha[work]> had a full hat of ...
[08:41:36] <archivist> bad hardening and tempering
[08:41:39] <Loetmichel> next box from the same order was ok
[08:42:00] <Loetmichel> had
[08:42:18] <Loetmichel> sorry, german words neak in some times ;-)
[08:42:22] <archivist> test batches/boxes when used in a critical place
[08:42:23] <Loetmichel> sneak
[08:43:50] <Loetmichel> i go for the bad tempering, too, the faulty screws shattered into 1000++ pieces if thrown from the deskt to the concrete floor
[08:43:56] <Valen> given the super low torque, any thaughts on replacing them with a lower/cheaper grade of bolt?
[08:44:48] <Loetmichel> i just wnated to second the opiniion that ther are much faulty karts out there,, even fresh out of the box
[08:44:52] <Loetmichel> wanted
[08:45:17] <archivist> the local suzuki dealer may have a stock of the bolts due to previous failure for free
[08:45:32] <Loetmichel> sorry, i have a bad cold so my typing/spelling is worse than usual
[08:47:29] <Loetmichel> <- at work nontheless, sniffing and coughing... good side effect: no one comes to my production manager booth :-)
[08:48:14] <archivist> Valen, cheap shit may not have the fatigue strength of the right bolts
[08:48:52] <Valen> archivist: dealer has 5 bolts in stock in total
[08:49:19] <Valen> he is going to go to a bolt supplier and get some
[08:50:28] <archivist> bolt supplier is unlikely to have high tensile
[08:50:52] <archivist> can ask though
[09:04:01] <Valen> bolt supplier has everything
[09:04:48] <Valen> they are good
[09:04:48] <Valen> and know their stuff
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[10:20:06] <archivist> over here the bolt suppliers only have "counter" intelligences
[10:38:08] <Valen> this one is an old one
[10:38:21] <Valen> and all they do is sell bolts
[10:38:34] <Valen> 6 guys all ~60 in the shop
[10:38:51] <Valen> shop is a counter with a small room on one side and a stupid big warehouse on the other
[10:43:03] <Loetmichel> i know this from a electronic parts supplier in germany: small room , about 5 by 8 meters with a 8 meter counter cutting int roughly in half.
[10:43:24] <Loetmichel> one side for the customers, other fpr 4-6 old guys in lab coats.
[10:43:59] <Loetmichel> ... and a conveyor belt going through te back wall
[10:44:59] <Loetmichel> looking at the company from above: about 25 by 50 meters Storage on 2 levels behind the "shop" ;-)
[10:46:42] <Loetmichel> amazing Knowledge bundled in the old guys and a Throughput on customers like a shop sized ten times this one ;-)
[10:47:11] <A2Sheds> if the bolts were for aircraft you could trace them back to the hole in the ground the ore came from... or that was the plan
[10:47:29] <Loetmichel> (thanks to the many girls in the storage area packing the goods for mail Delivery AND the goods for the "shop"
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[11:22:42] <Tom_itx> logger[mah]
[11:22:43] <logger[mah]> Tom_itx: Log stored at http://emc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23emc/2011-10-19.html
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[11:57:08] <Guest770> Anyone know where to find english mocca GUI's?
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[12:00:04] <jthornton> iirc he didn't make one... but I'm totally wrong 1/2 the time
[12:00:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Got Garage Door?
[12:01:16] <jthornton> lol
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[12:32:00] <Jymmm> jthornton: ?
[12:32:11] <jthornton> ?
[12:32:23] <Jymmm> jthornton: garage door you laughd
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[12:44:55] <Jymmm> jthornton: did you see the video?
[13:23:04] <JT-Shop> yea
[13:39:37] <jdhNC> http://arduino-direct.com/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=201
[13:39:57] <jdhNC> cheap and should work fine with a p-port?
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[13:49:30] <malagant> hi! laser gurus needed :)
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[13:52:00] <malagant> this is the problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMuzcdJ3il4
[13:53:02] <awallin_> that is an electrical problem. (are you in the helsinki-regiion by any chance?)
[13:53:17] <malagant> nope, sorry, oulu
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[13:53:45] <malagant> awallin_, do you know what's the problem?
[13:54:06] <awallin_> I recall our CO2 laser wants DC at some reasonable voltage (20V?) and some huge current (15A?) ?? hmm
[13:54:54] <awallin_> sam's laser faq ?
[13:55:07] <awallin_> http://repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
[13:55:10] <malagant> I think it wants something like 30kV@20mA :D
[13:55:41] <malagant> I know this might be a grounding problem, but I'm not sure how to fix it
[13:55:52] <malagant> there is no loose wires or anything like that..
[13:55:57] <awallin_> so did it work before?
[13:56:09] <malagant> no, just got it
[13:57:10] <awallin_> http://repairfaq.org/sam/laserco2.htm#co2prin
[13:57:22] <awallin_> start 30kV, operate 10kV and 7-25mA
[13:58:20] <malagant> well, the system has its own power supply that handles the voltage
[13:58:25] <awallin_> but that arcing you are seing is probably outside the laser-tube. hopefully your tube is intact and not broken...
[13:58:30] <Loetmichel> that is depending on wattage and lenght of the tube
[13:59:05] <awallin_> from malagant's video I would guess it's not more than a 50W co2
[13:59:12] <malagant> tube seems to be ok and water circulates perfectly
[13:59:24] <malagant> it's 40W CO2
[13:59:42] <Loetmichel> and tha arcing looks like some destroyed isolator.
[13:59:56] <Loetmichel> can you tell whre the arc is flying TO?
[14:00:08] <Loetmichel> one point will be the tube contact, and the other?
[14:00:12] <malagant> to the ground I think :D
[14:00:14] <Loetmichel> tha chassis?
[14:00:17] <malagant> yeah
[14:00:52] <malagant> I so use grounded power cable..
[14:00:54] <Loetmichel> coild be a isolation fault in the HV-transformer
[14:01:00] <malagant> I do use I meant
[14:01:12] <malagant> hmm
[14:01:13] <Loetmichel> that SHOULD be galvanically seperated from the Ground
[14:01:27] <Loetmichel> s/coild/could
[14:01:49] <Loetmichel> teh high voltage
[14:01:53] <Loetmichel> the
[14:01:57] <Loetmichel> (normally)
[14:02:53] <malagant> the red cable goes directly from the transformer to the laser tube's another end
[14:03:00] <malagant> and the cable isn't broken
[14:04:14] <malagant> could it be that the another cable (blue one) isn't grounded goog enough and current doesn't flow thru the tube?
[14:04:28] <Loetmichel> malagant: i menat: the high voltage souldnt have a ground reference at all, or maybe a center tap which is grounded. so that BOTH tube ends are only HALF the voltage above ground like now
[14:04:44] <malagant> ahh
[14:05:02] <Loetmichel> if one tube end is connected to the ground, on the other end will be the full Voltage for the Tube "above" ground
[14:05:26] <Loetmichel> so the isolation distances are not succesible
[14:06:16] <malagant> I'll upload some pictures, wait a sec..
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[14:08:39] <skunkworks> I should really run the released version of emc now. I think everything that was modified is now in it.
[14:09:39] <malagant> http://lauri.jamsa.me/pic/laser/2011-10-19%2012.53.50.jpg
[14:10:11] <malagant> http://lauri.jamsa.me/pic/laser/2011-10-19%2012.53.58.jpg
[14:10:28] <malagant> http://lauri.jamsa.me/pic/laser/2011-10-19%2012.54.07.jpg
[14:11:21] <skunkworks> neat - is that around 100w?
[14:11:46] <malagant> 40W
[14:11:51] <skunkworks> nice
[14:12:10] <malagant> but it's not working (see earlier messages) :D
[14:12:11] <awallin_> from the video it looks like the arc is from the red wire to the blue enclosure/casing ?
[14:12:25] <malagant> true
[14:12:42] <Loetmichel> i am missing some charring
[14:13:45] <Loetmichel> the blue wire looks very thin isolated.
[14:14:08] <Loetmichel> maybe your laser supply IS gronded on the blue end
[14:14:09] <awallin_> here's something similar http://www.synthfool.com/laser/
[14:14:23] <skunkworks> we had a 1kw laser go down because the hv wire fired to the case.
[14:14:41] <skunkworks> *one of the hv wires
[14:14:56] <Loetmichel> so there has to be an isolation fault at the "red" sinde OR the tube sint startig and the Voltage goes up until arcing occurs
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[14:15:50] <Loetmichel> malagant: as a search for the fault I would fist look behiond the foam at the red end for some charring.
[14:16:08] <Loetmichel> THIS big arcs should do some visible damage
[14:16:33] <Loetmichel> then you can guess whre the isolation is faulty and maybe re-isolatie it
[14:16:42] <malagant> Loetmichel, I removed the foams before using it. Was it wrong move? :D
[14:16:49] <Loetmichel> (shrink tube, self-vulcanizing tape, etc)
[14:17:12] <Loetmichel> oh, thats why i donst see any charring ;-)
[14:17:19] <Loetmichel> dont
[14:17:54] <Loetmichel> do you have some photos of the end after the arc had occured?
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[14:18:33] <malagant> arc didn't do any visible damage :/
[14:19:18] <Guest770> Anyone know where to find english mocca GUI's?
[14:20:41] <malagant> Loetmichel, as you can see, the arc is from red wires's end to the chassis -> I think it's not isolation problem of the red wire
[14:20:43] <awallin_> Guest770: this ? http://code.google.com/p/moccagui/
[14:20:49] <skunkworks> Guest770: Have you checked the forum? I have not been keeping up with it.
[14:20:51] <malagant> or do you think that the foam is needed :O
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[14:21:26] <skunkworks> grommit!
[14:21:56] <malagant> my guess was that the foam was there for just because of the transport..
[14:22:05] <grommit> hey skunkworks
[14:22:18] <Loetmichel> malagant: look closer
[14:22:27] <Loetmichel> it WILL have done visibel damage
[14:22:43] <Loetmichel> maybe only 0,1mm black spots. but it will!
[14:23:13] <grommit> EMC won't start this morning. I did regular Ubuntu system updates, and that could be why, but not 100%. Does this look like an X windows problem? http://pastebin.com/xgrDmrtX
[14:23:15] <Loetmichel> the foam will not isolate, tat was mostly sure only for transport
[14:23:29] <malagant> Loetmichel, ok, but it's not the point :D what's the problem? blue wire isn't going where it should?
[14:23:42] <Loetmichel> dont think so
[14:24:24] <Loetmichel> as i said: look whre the entry points of the arc are, then one cen guess a litte more "educated" what the fault is
[14:24:29] <grommit> Peter (a guy I work with) was doing some major work on the config last night, but I can't see anything obvious in the config, and that error isn't much help....
[14:24:35] <Loetmichel> s/cen/cam
[14:24:37] <Loetmichel> can
[14:24:58] <skunkworks> grommit: for grins can you try a sim config?
[14:25:24] <malagant> Loetmichel, ok, cannot do it before tomorrow..
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[14:25:37] <JT-Shop> yea try mini
[14:26:34] <grommit> Sim config fails with same error
[14:27:20] <grommit> Is there a way to revert back before system updates? I haven't ever done that with Ubuntu but the error sure looks like an X windows issue....
[14:27:57] <JT-Shop> you might google that
[14:29:34] <skunkworks> that is what I would think too. It seems to die after trying to load axis.
[14:29:44] <skunkworks> did you try mini? (non x config)
[14:29:48] <JT-Shop> seems to puke when it loads axis
[14:29:52] <skunkworks> 30.Starting EMC2 DISPLAY program: axis
[14:29:52] <skunkworks> 31.Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
[14:30:54] <awallin_> google seems to suggest that updating graphics drivers might solve your X-problem...
[14:30:57] <Loetmichel> malagant: my guess is that the isolation of the point where the red cable ist fixed on the tube isnt done right
[14:31:09] <grommit> a2ms@Klaatu:~$ glxgears
[14:31:10] <awallin_> lot's of things written about "X Error of failed request: BadLength"..
[14:31:11] <grommit> X Error of failed request: BadLength (poly request too large or internal Xlib length error)
[14:31:13] <grommit> Major opcode of failed request: 153 (GLX)
[14:31:15] <grommit> Minor opcode of failed request: 17 (X_GLXVendorPrivateWithReply)
[14:31:17] <Loetmichel> maybe a bubble in the sillicone or so
[14:31:17] <grommit> Serial number of failed request: 17
[14:31:19] <grommit> Current serial number in output stream: 17
[14:31:20] <grommit> a2ms@Klaatu:~$
[14:31:43] <grommit> I can't run anything x related...oh damn...
[14:32:25] <grommit> oh well, a fine distraction from a machine that won't work ;-)
[14:34:37] <skunkworks> heh
[14:35:23] <skunkworks> well - I spent a good part of a day trouble shooting a machine that just had a estop button pushed in. (one that no one knew about)
[14:35:51] <grommit> Nice
[14:35:57] <grommit> I can relate, believe me!
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[14:42:27] <skunkworks> awallin_: ever get back to your extruder?
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[14:43:50] <awallin_> skunkworks: not really... it sort of worked, but we don't have room for the big router-table. a desktop xyz-platform like the makerbot or similar would be more protable. I guess there would be some incentive to develop g-code generators for 3d-printing also then..
[14:44:04] <grommit> Well, if anyone else has that issue just do this to downgrade your xserver:
[14:44:09] <grommit> sudo aptitude install xserver-common=2:1.7.6-2ubuntu7
[14:44:21] <grommit> and sudo aptitude install xserver-xorg-core=2:1.7.6-2ubuntu7
[14:44:29] <grommit> After reboot I am back working again.
[14:44:48] <skunkworks> awesome!
[14:45:10] <grommit> I was fully prepared to take all day fixing that :-)
[14:48:11] <grommit> Probably could have installed the 7.6 update rather than go all the way back to 7, but oh well...
[14:50:01] <psha[work]> grommit: hi :]
[14:50:04] <psha[work]> and bye :]
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[14:51:44] <grommit> bye... ;-)
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[15:29:40] <malagant> I added the question about the laser problem on CNCzone.com: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/laser_engraving_cutting_machines/138755-2_inch_arc_laser_tube.html
[15:31:02] <awallin_> I guess the mirrors on the end of the laser-tube are not adjustable? if doesn't start to lase it may be like Loetmichel said, the voltage rises so high you get arcing.
[15:31:26] <awallin_> lasing requires the right gas inside and good alignment of the resonator mirrors, clean mirrors, etc.
[15:32:09] <malagant> yeah, it might be that the laser tube is broken
[15:32:21] <malagant> but outside it's in perfect condition
[15:36:24] <malagant> btw, what's the green part on right of this image: http://www.synthfool.com/laser/internals.jpg
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[15:40:00] <A2Sheds> the green part is a resistor
[15:47:05] <A2Sheds> malagant: http://lauri.jamsa.me/pic/laser/2011-10-19%2012.53.58.jpg it looks like there is a dark line where the red wire meets the tube
[15:48:30] <malagant> A2Sheds, what it means?
[15:49:03] <A2Sheds> possibly carbon from the arc to the chassis ground
[15:49:28] <A2Sheds> what is that conical piece made from that the red wire enters?
[15:49:32] <malagant> the picture is taken before tests
[15:50:31] <malagant> it's some kind of silicon or similar
[15:51:05] <malagant> and filled with silicone
[15:52:13] <malagant> rubber maybe, same stuff as the water pipe
[15:52:25] <A2Sheds> is that where the arc is from?
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[15:52:38] <malagant> yeah
[15:53:04] <malagant> should I isolate the wire's end somehow?
[15:53:14] <malagant> adding some tape on it? :D
[15:54:00] <A2Sheds> if the black line is carbon, you could try cleaning it
[15:54:27] <A2Sheds> the problem is if you try to fix it will they honor any warranty?
[15:54:54] <A2Sheds> or do you still care about a warranty?
[15:55:51] <malagant> yeah, I think I'll first wait what the seller says..
[15:56:22] <A2Sheds> if not, then if it's carbon, try to clean it with a solvent that won't leave a film, and then add some silicone
[15:56:40] <malagant> ok, I'll try that
[15:56:49] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[15:56:56] <A2Sheds> check on the warranty first
[15:57:08] <Loetmichel> i dont think that the black line is anything relevant
[15:57:27] <Loetmichel> maybe just a cmalp inside the rubber to hold the cable
[15:57:42] <malagant> Loetmichel, might be true
[15:57:58] <malagant> I could try to isolate the connection using some rubber or similar
[15:58:59] <A2Sheds> ignoring the warranty..... I'd check to see if there is a good connection there ad then redo the insulation
[15:59:08] <A2Sheds> ad/and
[15:59:51] <Loetmichel> from my point of view there are 2 possible explanations: faulty insulation at the red end of the tube (and no, you won't get anything good with insulating tape, there is silicone rubber needed or maybe self vulcanizing rubber tape) OR the tube has gone bad and has no co2 left in it (meaning to much air inside)
[16:00:58] <Loetmichel> if so, the discharge inside the tube wont start which wil let the power supply rise in voltage until arcing occurs
[16:02:43] <Loetmichel> anyways: to use the tube without the watercooling WILL damage it. SOOON.
[16:03:24] <Loetmichel> so please make the water cooling operable before further testing.
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[16:04:12] <A2Sheds> or if there is some residue on the insulation at that connection, less likely that what he ^ said
[16:04:48] <JT-Shop> mmmm, tastes like cheddar flavored packing peanuts http://piratebrands.com/products/piratesbooty/agedwhitecheddar
[16:07:10] <Loetmichel> i have looked at the video again: looks like the arc occurs out of the point where the red wire disappears into the rubber hose
[16:07:25] <Loetmichel> with a little bit of luck its just a bad insulation
[16:08:45] <Loetmichel> malagant: do you have some neutral (no vinegar) silicone handy?
[16:08:49] <A2Sheds> I wonder if that unit was even tested before it was shipped
[16:09:48] <Loetmichel> you COULD try to insulate the connection of the red wire to the tube GENEROUSLY and without air bubbles.
[16:10:32] <Loetmichel> but if the tube itseld has drawn air it would be difficult to get the warranty in this case
[16:11:02] <Loetmichel> A2Sheds: chinese ? could be, could not be ;-)
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[16:33:41] <A2Sheds> JT-Shop: any food product with "Booty" on the label is a red flag to me
[16:34:15] <JT-Shop> LOL
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[16:46:42] <malagant> Loetmichel, water cooling was operational all the time I did tests
[16:46:50] <Loetmichel> ok
[16:47:54] <ktchk> Any tb6560 user?
[16:48:44] <malagant> Loetmichel, I'll wait if the seller wants to replace the tube, if not, then I'll try to fix it
[16:49:51] <Loetmichel> malagant: just a question: how much was the entire unit?
[16:50:56] <Loetmichel> (i war thinking of buying a 80W tube + optics + PSU and building the machine myself, but if it was cheap...
[16:51:02] <Loetmichel> was
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[17:03:34] <A2Sheds> malagant: at least you have pics and video of what is wrong for the seller to see
[17:04:56] <A2Sheds> and it should rule out if the unit is plugged in, or is being misused in any way
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[17:07:16] <malagant> Loetmichel, the entire unit was 540 eur (inc. shipping and handling)
[17:07:25] <Loetmichel> ok, thx
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[17:09:44] <ktchk> Hi any one using the tb6560 board?
[17:10:17] <malagant> I have the board, but haven't used it yet (just tested that it works)
[17:11:16] <ktchk> I can not set emc2 to the size I needed
[17:11:33] <malagant> ok, can't help with that
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[17:16:32] <lumberjack_jeff> update 2.4.7 appears to have broken my install. "X Error of failed request: BadLength (poly request too large or internal Xlib length error)"
[17:19:47] <malagant> Loetmichel, btw, if I set the current to minimum or little more, there is no arc
[17:20:00] <malagant> just this high pitch sound
[17:20:11] <malagant> and no laser beam
[17:20:13] <Loetmichel> malagant: but the tube is not igniting?
[17:20:40] <Loetmichel> should shimmer rose/violet arount the inner rube
[17:21:00] <malagant> yeah, nothing visible there
[17:21:15] <Loetmichel> get a digicam and check again
[17:21:21] <JT-Shop> lumberjack_jeff: I saw a similar problem this morning
[17:21:21] <Loetmichel> on minimum curren
[17:21:37] <Loetmichel> should be brite white inside the tube
[17:21:58] <lumberjack_jeff> jtshop, did you fix it?
[17:23:49] <malagant> Loetmichel, but I didn't manage to get any kind of beam from the tube
[17:24:13] <malagant> I placed piece of paper near the tube
[17:24:47] <JT-Shop> 09:44 grommit Well, if anyone else has that issue just do this to downgrade your xserver:
[17:24:48] <JT-Shop> 09:44 grommit sudo aptitude install xserver-common=2:1.7.6-2ubuntu7
[17:24:49] <JT-Shop> 09:44 grommit and sudo aptitude install xserver-xorg-core=2:1.7.6-2ubuntu7
[17:24:51] <JT-Shop> 09:44 grommit After reboot I am back working again.
[17:25:09] <JT-Shop> lumberjack_jeff: grommit had the same problem
[17:25:27] <lumberjack_jeff> thanks jtshop
[17:25:33] <JT-Shop> now I have a different one it don't see my joypad on my plasma :/
[17:29:08] <lumberjack_jeff> jtshop, I have ubuntu lynx (10.04 lts). Same advice?
[17:30:26] <JT-Shop> I'd google the error first, I assume grommit is using 10.04 as most are
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[17:33:24] <JT-Shop> crap, I just upgraded to 2.4.7 and my plasma config is broken... it can't find the joypad. lsusb shows it... hmmmm
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[17:37:07] <jt-plasma> hmm, running from a terminal I get
[17:37:09] <jt-plasma> Starting EMC2...
[17:37:10] <jt-plasma> emc/iotask/ioControl.cc 762: can't load tool table.
[17:37:12] <jt-plasma> postgui.hal:31: Pin 'input.0.btn-trigger' does not exist
[17:37:13] <jt-plasma> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
[17:41:06] <JT-Shop> and strangely enough the tool table is not there...
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[17:47:44] <JT-Shop> and wow input.0.btn-trigger is not there any more it has a new name :/
[17:50:54] * JT-Shop wonders how input.0.btn-trigger changed to input.0.btn-joystick ????
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[17:57:34] <Danimal_garage|2> mornin
[17:57:38] <JT-Shop> hi
[17:58:11] <Danimal_garage|2> Hi John
[17:58:14] <Danimal_garage|2> how goes it
[17:58:34] <JT-Shop> a bit scary when my plasma config crashed after upping to 2.4.7
[17:58:44] <JT-Shop> but I fingered it out..
[17:59:03] <JT-Shop> input.0.btn-trigger changed to input.0.btn-joystick on my joypad :/
[18:00:00] <JT-Shop> and my tool.tbl file disappeared, not that I used it on the plasma
[18:00:14] <Danimal_garage|2> weird
[18:01:04] <Danimal_garage|2> i get to clean my machine today for the first time in like 6 months
[18:01:13] <Danimal_garage|2> my mill
[18:01:17] <JT-Shop> yuck
[18:01:21] <Danimal_garage|2> yea
[18:01:28] <mhaberler> JT-Shop: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commit;h=e6fe7859446c6c8cc72769f5806255ed5fd309e9
[18:01:42] <mhaberler> (my suspicion)
[18:01:44] <Danimal_garage|2> my toolchanger has been acting up so i need to work on it
[18:01:58] <JT-Shop> I'd bet that is what it is
[18:02:26] <Danimal_garage|2> every once in a while the toolchanger loosens from the machine so i gotta get up there and retighten it
[18:04:16] <JT-Shop> mhaberler: did anything change regarding the tool.tbl? For some reason I didn't have the file but my ini listed the table...
[18:04:41] <mhaberler> nope, I wasnt the piano player ;-)
[18:04:47] <JT-Shop> lol
[18:05:10] <mhaberler> `round up the usual suspects´
[18:05:46] <JT-Shop> no biggie I just copied one from another config
[18:14:31] <Danimal_garage|2> i always copy over the entire config folder
[18:14:57] <Danimal_garage|2> not sure if thats good or bad but i havent lost any files that way
[18:15:30] <Danimal_garage|2> yay, i can see the machine again. Cant believe the shop vac didn't fill on that job
[18:16:03] <Danimal_garage|2> now for the sucky part..... whiping it down
[18:16:21] <Danimal_garage|2> good thing i cleaned out my closet yesterday, i got a ton of rags now
[18:20:00] <JT-Shop> I cleaned the CHNC coolant tank the other day... that sucked
[18:20:31] <JT-Shop> I actually don't think I lost the file but just never had it before in any of my plasma configs
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[18:28:56] <JT-Shop> but I did have a tooltable= tool.tbl in my ini file
[18:29:08] <JT-Shop> so I deleted that
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[18:30:53] <Danimal_garage|2> dont need one, huh
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[18:35:20] <skunkKandT> logger[ps
[18:35:23] <skunkKandT> logger[psha]:
[18:37:17] <JT-Shop> not on the plasma I don't
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[18:48:04] <Danimal_garage|2> almost clean!
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[19:00:09] <Danimal_garage|2> ha, just figured out an easy way to clean my toolchanger..... shove a rag under a tool bucket and feed the carousel around a few times
[19:00:45] <Danimal_garage|2> spray a little pine sol on it beforehand
[19:00:54] <ktchk> emc2 set up strepper the leadscrew mm/rev effect the pulse rate at max speed why?
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[19:01:56] <Danimal_garage|2> because the scale is counts per rev
[19:02:32] <Danimal_garage|2> so if it was off before, it didn't know how fast it was actually going
[19:03:06] <Danimal_garage|2> velocity is set by units per second
[19:03:10] <Danimal_garage|2> not revs
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[19:03:30] <IchGucksLive> Connor: ?
[19:04:00] <Connor> IchGucksLive: Yea
[19:04:05] <ktchk> the lead screw pitch is not what measured with the screw
[19:04:11] <IchGucksLive> i got it done the pendant
[19:04:17] <IchGucksLive> full working both ways
[19:04:24] <Danimal_garage|2> not sure what you mean
[19:04:26] <Connor> Cool!
[19:04:41] <IchGucksLive> i had an issue with a capaciter on the encoder
[19:04:58] <IchGucksLive> 2days coding around
[19:04:58] <Danimal_garage|2> set your units per rev before you set your velocity or accel
[19:05:18] <Connor> Cap on the encoder? Wasn't suppose to be their?
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[19:05:25] <IchGucksLive> Connor: and a 0,1cent capaciter mayd it work BOH
[19:05:46] <IchGucksLive> Connor: thats what i thaught to
[19:06:08] <Connor> I don't have any on mine.. but, I have have different kind of encocder.
[19:06:18] <IchGucksLive> but pullup 4k7 against source and 82k in pinline diddent work
[19:06:41] <IchGucksLive> the 33nF aigenst commen did it perfect
[19:07:03] <IchGucksLive> i now got 1000 commands per second going at 11500Baud
[19:07:28] <Connor> Cool
[19:07:38] <IchGucksLive> for usige i will do 200 commands/s with 9600
[19:07:52] <IchGucksLive> all 5 axis and 4 mashines in the unit
[19:08:39] <IchGucksLive> now testing is the case then //commanding and then publish all
[19:08:45] <Connor> cool
[19:09:06] <IchGucksLive> the CarRadio encoder for 1.99 does perfect
[19:09:20] <Tom_itx> logger[mah]
[19:09:21] <logger[mah]> Tom_itx: Log stored at http://emc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23emc/2011-10-19.html
[19:09:44] <ktchk> Danimal_garage|2: I use a tb6560 board and the leadscrew is 5mm/rev measured with ruler, but the distance is wrong, have to put 2.17 instead of 5 in the leadscrew pitch input box to make it correct
[19:10:51] <IchGucksLive> By for mee Connor we are on the finish street
[19:11:19] <IchGucksLive> for a Multiple Pendant under 100 Euor selfmade
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[19:18:24] <Danimal_garage|2> then you have your microstepping set wrong, or your timing is off.
[19:23:36] <cpresser> ktchk: do a quick sanity check and see how much pulses it takes for one revolution
[19:24:17] <ktchk> where to check
[19:27:05] <cpresser> paint something on the leadscrew and see when it reaches the same point again :)
[19:31:30] <Jymmm> dry erase marker
[19:32:07] <Danimal_garage|2> yay, clean machine!
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[19:39:05] <JT-Shop> free beer over here at my shop... bring rags
[19:39:50] <Danimal_garage|2> ha
[19:44:02] <Tom_itx> ok who has the coolest tool touch pad?
[19:44:51] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Apple, but it only works on a mac.
[19:45:07] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: or did you mean touch off?
[19:45:24] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Rags --> http://cdn.mainstreetconnect.us/sites/default/files/imagecache/article_vertical/rags_040611_04a.jpg
[19:45:39] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: He likes beer too!
[19:45:47] <andypugh> Hmm, you could probably use an iPhone as a touch-off plate. What could possibly go wrong?
[19:45:52] <syyl> yeah
[19:46:09] <syyl> mounted my cast belt housing/motor mount :D
[19:46:11] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-10-19_21-00-37_535.jpg
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[19:46:26] <Danimal_garage|2> andypugh: it would only be an improvement
[19:46:56] <andypugh> syyl: Nice. That's two of us at the quality end of the market :-)
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[19:47:08] <JT-Shop> syyl: much too clean
[19:47:14] <Jymmm> I meant this... but it might be able to be used as a touch off too... http://www.apple.com/magictrackpad/
[19:47:20] <syyl> i like my machines clean ;)
[19:47:26] <JT-Shop> me too
[19:47:39] <syyl> see the pile of swarf on the lower left? :D
[19:47:41] <Danimal_garage|2> syyl: nice!
[19:47:54] <Danimal_garage|2> i like my machines used.
[19:47:57] <JT-Shop> and a neat pile it is :)
[19:47:59] <Danimal_garage|2> it pays the mortgage
[19:48:09] <syyl> hrhr
[19:48:15] <syyl> this is hobby
[19:48:19] <JT-Shop> anyone use Visual Mill with SolidWorks?
[19:48:21] <syyl> i have time to play ;)
[19:48:25] <andypugh> Jymmm: Shiny! Must Buy!
[19:48:47] <Jymmm> andypugh: My gf likes it, I like my trackball.
[19:49:08] <Danimal_garage|2> hmm now that the machine is clean, i need to realign and tighten down the toolchanger
[19:49:32] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/user/MecSoftCorporation#p/u/2/dQVOeRI8yR8
[19:50:10] <Jymmm> andypugh: It's funny, I have two trackballs next to each other and when ppl come over they always have a bewilder look on their face when they see them.
[19:50:57] <andypugh> Oddly, I have such a look on my face now.
[19:51:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: Billards cue ball sized, not wimpy little things.
[19:51:44] <Jymmm> andypugh: One os for primary desktop, the other is for the KVM switch.
[19:51:55] <Jymmm> s/os/is/
[19:52:14] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I think that it works with Alibre too (which is much cheaper than Solidowrks, and not at all bad)
[19:52:36] <JT-Shop> I have SW already
[19:53:00] <JT-Shop> and maintain SW so I get the updates
[19:53:12] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: When you upgrade SW from one version to the next, does it deactivate the older version(s)?
[19:53:24] <JT-Shop> yea
[19:53:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: bastards
[19:54:05] <JT-Shop> it used to not do a good job of that and you had to delete it yourself but since 2009 or so they got that all sorted out
[19:54:31] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: So SW2008 still works?
[19:54:45] <JT-Shop> yea if that is what you have
[19:54:52] <JT-Shop> you don't have to upgrade
[19:55:20] <JT-Shop> I still have my 2001 disks around somewhere and they would work
[19:55:31] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Or if some shop building individual wanted to sell his used and outdated SW2008 by chance =)
[19:56:25] <JT-Shop> ah, you would not be able to activate it as that license is already activated
[19:56:36] <JT-Shop> I can have it on 2 computers max
[19:56:40] <Jymmm> gotcha
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[20:17:55] <emc_rules> I cant launch hal configuration within axis anymore. but hal meter and scope work fine. Any ideas?
[20:18:26] <Danimal_garage|2> weird
[20:21:30] <Danimal_garage|2> hmm looks like my adjustment screws for the timing switches for the toolchanger's arm were loose. seems to be working ok now
[20:22:02] <andypugh> emc_rules: Err, no. That's rather wierd.
[20:22:23] <andypugh> emc_rules: It is a standalone application.
[20:22:35] <andypugh> Try "halshow" in a terminal window with Axis up and running.
[20:24:34] <emc_rules> halshow comand not found
[20:25:40] <emc_rules> when i try to launch from axis i get no respone in terminal either
[20:26:16] <emc_rules> only started to happen when i started to use hidcomp
[20:26:30] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Do you have a 7i76?
[20:26:43] <JT-Shop> yea
[20:27:03] <andypugh> Has PCW indicated that the spindle connector is not as indicated in the manual?
[20:27:51] <andypugh> Because I get a dead short from Spindle+ to Spindle-
[20:28:00] <JT-Shop> he did say to make sure I got the latest manual
[20:28:20] <andypugh> He had the power connector wrong.
[20:30:17] <JT-Shop> the manual I have shows TB4 pin 1 spindle + pin2 spindle out and pin 3 spindle -
[20:37:21] <andypugh> Yes, if you connect that way (assuming 1 is the bottom pin) then bad things happen.
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[20:42:31] <andypugh> None of the other combinations work either, but that could be the driver.
[20:42:32] <Danimal_garage|2> finally replacing my y axis home switch bracket
[20:42:44] <andypugh> (or I might have blown it up)
[20:49:02] <JT-Shop> page 9 shows pin 1 on bottom with DB25 on the left
[20:49:30] <andypugh> Yes, that is what I have too,
[20:49:41] <andypugh> Just saying, don't wire it until Pete confirms
[20:50:06] <JT-Shop> ok, it is still sitting on my desk
[20:51:34] <JT-Shop> I found a flaw in VisualMill... the RPM calculations don't have a max spindle speed except in the post...
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[21:11:52] <ktchk> Danimal_garage|2: I did check the microstep setting the microstep and leadscrew pitch does not match the turns the motor run.
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[21:21:33] <elmo40> emc_rules: afternoon. long time no chat. how goes it?
[21:24:35] <Danimal_garage|2> ktchk: is the error the same every time? does it repeat, and get progressively off in the expected increments?
[21:27:29] <Spida> is there anythign I should read as an intro to milling when I want to buy/build a cnc-mill? I have a rough understanding of the mechanics involved, and I have occasionally used manual mills (missing a bunch of knowledge and experience there). anything I should read first?
[21:29:27] <andypugh> Spida: I didn't :-)
[21:30:06] <Danimal_garage|2> the machinist's handbook if you're really dedicated!
[21:30:46] <Danimal_garage|2> ah, finally got a working y axis home switch again
[21:30:58] <Danimal_garage|2> ready to make parts! (after lunch)
[21:32:52] <ktchk> Danimal_garage|2: The error is always the same I change the microsteps to 11 steps to make a 5mm movement\
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[21:36:30] <andypugh> 11 microsteps? That's not right.
[21:37:11] <ktchk> that is what i thinks so
[21:37:32] <ktchk> must be the tb6560 board
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[21:40:34] <andypugh> ktchk: More likely to be that the leadscrew pitch isn't what you think, or the reduction ratio is different.
[21:40:55] <andypugh> TB6560 is too dumb to get that sort of thing wrong.
[21:41:15] <ktchk> I check with t
[21:41:25] <Tom_itx> is andy back to his ole self now?
[21:41:54] <ktchk> the hand wheel turning the screw and measure
[21:46:10] <andypugh> Yes, it was a full drive. Not that _anything_ suggested that.
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[22:10:02] <elmo40> Spida: have you machines anything? wood, metal?
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[22:12:18] <andypugh> Anyone know when PCW gets back?
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[22:12:46] <Tom_itx> no idea
[22:12:55] <Tom_itx> surely he took a laptop along
[22:17:01] <elmo40> hasnt been here since when, the 13th?
[22:18:11] <Tom_itx> well he said he was goin on vacation
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[22:39:17] <Danimal_garage|2> yawn
[22:39:53] <Danimal_garage|2> man i don't want to make this machine dirty again
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[22:41:47] <Danimal_garage|2> it hasnt been clean for like 6 months, probably closer to 8
[22:43:18] <andypugh> Bolt it to the ceiling, then the swarf will fall off.
[22:43:37] <Danimal_garage|2> coolant prevents that from happening
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[22:44:01] <andypugh> Line the floor in plastic.
[22:44:37] <Danimal_garage|2> no i mean the chips just stick to the machine
[22:45:11] <andypugh> Don't give me problems, give me solutions!
[22:46:17] <Danimal_garage|2> i guess i can just not use coolant
[22:47:07] <andypugh> There you go! Or use something that dries away, like acetone.
[22:47:32] <Danimal_garage|2> how about gasoline? should work great when cutting titanium
[22:47:47] <Danimal_garage|2> i need to find a coolant proof vacuum cleaner hose
[22:48:18] <Danimal_garage|2> water solulable coolants kill rubber/plastics
[22:49:12] <Jymmm> Nah, use denatured alcohol. 190 Proof, white flame, ignites with just one spark, and hotter than hell!
[22:49:34] <Jymmm> 1oz will burn for apx 15 minues
[22:49:37] <jdhNC> LOX, also keeps it cool
[22:49:40] <Jymmm> minutes
[22:50:00] <Jymmm> jdhNC: LOX is just too fun to play with.
[22:50:23] <Danimal_garage|2> i wonder how well those cold air guns work in comparison to coolant
[22:51:33] <Danimal_garage|2> no lubricant properties, so i cant imagine all that well
[22:52:19] <Jymmm> oh you said Ti, nm
[22:53:32] <Jymmm> I was thinking magnesium, then you adding AIR cooling, yeah nice adding oxygen to the fire there =)
[22:54:42] <Danimal_garage|2> ti is pretty bad too
[22:54:51] <Danimal_garage|2> i've had a couple ti fires
[22:55:35] <Jymmm> Oh, in that case use pure O2 air cooling, no need for all that inert gas like nitrogen.
[22:56:03] <Danimal_garage|2> how about methane
[22:56:06] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: Though Nitrogen is REALLY cheap to refill ($16/40#)
[22:56:23] <Jymmm> well, tank exchange actually
[22:56:38] <Jymmm> aand is a fire supressant too
[22:56:53] <Danimal_garage|2> sand is the only fire supressant for mag fires, really
[22:56:59] <Danimal_garage|2> we always used sand
[22:57:18] <Jymmm> graphite
[22:57:25] <Tom_itx> just throw water on it
[22:57:40] <Jymmm> heh, and grab the mashmellows
[22:57:43] <Danimal_garage|2> i used to work for a company that made transmisisons, and we used mag for some of the cases
[22:57:53] <Danimal_garage|2> Tom_itx: riiiggghhhttttt.....
[22:57:59] <Tom_itx> :)
[22:58:52] <Jymmm> It's weird, ignited magnesium explodes when in contact with water, yet is used to start a camp fire in the rain - go figure.
[22:59:51] <Jymmm> ok, bbl.. food run!
[23:01:25] <Danimal_garage|2> too late for lunch, too early for dinner.
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[23:02:43] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uixxJtJPVXk
[23:05:48] <Danimal_garage|2> thats cool. that would make great fuel!
[23:06:52] <Danimal_garage|2> i'm guessing it's not very plentiful?
[23:07:27] <andypugh> No, and very expensive to make
[23:07:28] <Tom_itx> you just knew they had to break the glass
[23:08:46] <Danimal_garage|2> how many bananas had to die to get the potasium needed for that clip?
[23:13:17] <andypugh> http://stores.ebay.co.uk/K-H-Geologicals/Periodic-Element-Samples-/_i.html?_fsub=352203419&_sid=1003750089&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322
[23:13:47] <andypugh> (No alkali metals though)
[23:17:16] <elmo40> they want me to be the programmer... one issue, they use GibbsCAM :-/
[23:17:46] <Danimal_garage|2> new yob?
[23:17:47] <elmo40> any recommendations on a laptop? i was looking at a Lenovo with the nVidia Quadro cards.
[23:17:58] <elmo40> new position in the job.
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[23:18:21] <Danimal_garage|2> what do you do now there?
[23:20:10] <andypugh> Macbook.CNC-milled case, looks the part.
[23:20:25] <Tom_itx> i should go check that out at the trade show
[23:20:33] <Tom_itx> http://www.gibbscam.com/
[23:20:41] <Tom_itx> hell that's today!!
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[23:27:01] <andypugh> Night all
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[23:30:38] <Danimal_garage|2> yawn
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[23:56:56] <elmo40> i jumped into gibbs. was completely lost