#emc | Logs for 2011-10-18

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[00:01:10] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
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[00:02:49] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: micrometers on cantaloupe?
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[00:53:32] <emcrules_CAD> has anyone seen docs on the mesa 7i73 pendant interface?
[00:54:29] <Tom_L> hmm i haven't heard anymore about that. i think they got busy with the 5i25 etc
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[00:55:16] <emcrules_CAD> Hows the 5i25 looking?
[00:55:33] <emcrules_CAD> is it supported in emc?
[00:55:41] <Tom_L> i think so
[00:55:49] <Tom_L> andy has been working on the code i think
[00:55:59] <Tom_L> i'm not sure the exact status
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[02:02:15] <FinboySlick> Will emerge --root=/foo build packages that link with /foo/lib/whatever or with /lib/whatever ?
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[02:24:13] <FinboySlick> Gah, sorry, wrong channel.
[02:24:23] <naked-misty> hello everyone
[02:24:37] <Tom_itx> clothe yourself
[02:25:21] <naked-misty> need some help, tired of pulling out my hair
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[02:26:23] <Tom_itx> it gets rather sparce at this time of day but voice your issue
[02:29:17] <naked-misty> understood, why when i touch off my z axis does my machine coords stay at 0.0, so when i run program it thinks z is going to crash into table and prompts error
[02:30:02] <jdhNC> what are your z coord. limits
[02:32:34] <naked-misty> when i load program all are 0.0 both on relative and machine. jog z up and touch off to 1.242 but machine coords stay a what ever i just happened to jog up and down.
[02:33:19] <jdhNC> manual home?
[02:33:47] <naked-misty> yes part will be cut in about center of machine
[02:34:29] <jdhNC> you moved z somewhere and then called it 'home' (before doing the touch-off)?
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[02:37:15] <naked-misty> opened emc2, everything comes up x0 y0 z0. by default i think
[02:37:42] <naked-misty> z axis is 3" off table in real world
[02:38:39] <naked-misty> home all axis, enter t1m6 into MDI so tool table will come up in touch off window
[02:40:22] <naked-misty> and touch off to 1.242 to tool table, which would be correct if i was using the touch plate
[02:43:27] <naked-misty> this is could be backwards from the norm, walk through would be great
[02:44:16] <jdhNC> I home my Z at the top. EMC knows I have 3" of travel (0.1" above home, 2.9 below)
[02:44:47] <jdhNC> regardless of where I touch off, it will not let me go outside those limits relative to where I homed.
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[02:46:19] <jdhNC> I assume that is the way it is supposed to operate, but I've only done one setup and have mis-interpreted things before :)
[02:46:49] <naked-misty> ok, how do you tell emc2 that the top of your work is zero and all cuts will be say -.25"
[02:47:15] <Tom_itx> i set my work offset
[02:47:39] <jdhNC> move z to the top of the work, touch-off as 0.0
[02:47:58] <Tom_itx> i do it slightly different but same idea
[02:48:13] <jdhNC> or stick a known plate on top and touch off to it
[02:48:21] <Tom_itx> set your tools from that point too don't you?
[02:48:24] <jdhNC> with whatever relative offset is needed
[02:49:04] <naked-misty> tried that, for some reason 0.0 is the table of my machine and it will not and lets say not again cut below that
[02:49:34] <jdhNC> is your gcode telling it to cut at z-0.25?
[02:49:46] <Tom_itx> your model must match your setup
[02:49:47] <naked-misty> yeah had is set up that way
[02:50:14] <jdhNC> where is Z when you home it?
[02:51:43] <naked-misty> ok my part is .5" and setting on top of .75 spoil board
[02:52:30] <jdhNC> seems like being naked, and chips flying could be a bad combination.
[02:52:35] <jdhNC> but, whatever.
[02:52:50] <naked-misty> i have changed/redone g code so all cuts are 0.0 from bottom of spoil board
[02:53:47] <Tom_itx> when i set my model up i always have z0 above the part
[02:53:59] <Tom_itx> then i use a height block to set everything from
[02:54:05] <jdhNC> move the tool to the top of the work, touch-off, tell it 1.25
[02:54:41] <naked-misty> i do , and that is what i have been doing
[02:55:22] <naked-misty> relative position shows 1.25, machine position shows 0.0 and will not let me cut
[02:57:16] <jdhNC> I can't see mine right now, so I'm pretty much out of imagination. Can you jog lower ? (with no tooling)
[02:59:21] <naked-misty> ok lets say i load it up with z being 3" up when i jog down to touch off say i come down .625 machine will say -0.625
[02:59:47] <naked-misty> even though i can touch off and relative says 1.25
[03:01:16] <naked-misty> was working on staurday
[03:01:43] <naked-misty> now when i try get will error joint 2 will exceded msg
[03:03:57] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui_axis.html#cap:Touch-Off
[03:06:00] <naked-misty> been there tried that.
[03:06:27] <Tom_itx> i was looking for something else as well
[03:09:48] <naked-misty> the only weird thing i noticed. rapid/safe z is a 1.255 actual touch off is at 1.242 machine coord would show 0.013 while relative would show 1.252
[03:10:44] <naked-misty> 1.255 - 1.242 = 0.013
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[03:13:05] <Tom_itx> http://unpy.net/emc2-docs-new/code_Code_Notes.html#sec:Homing
[03:13:12] <Tom_itx> that's not what i was after either
[03:16:32] <naked-misty> wish i could just tell emc2 that my machine coord is z1.242
[03:17:10] <Valen> naked-misty: what do you mean?
[03:18:14] <Tom_itx> i found a help somewhere that told me how to reset the home to zero
[03:18:19] <naked-misty> when i touch off my machine coords don't change, so i can't cut anything because emc2 thinks i'm cutting though my machine table
[03:19:11] <Tom_itx> then when i home the machine it sets home to zero and then i jog to G54 and touch off those coords
[03:19:17] <Tom_itx> i don't have a probe wired up yet)
[03:20:04] <Jymmm> alex_joni: http://tourwrist.com/
[03:24:37] <Valen> touching off wont change machine cordinates
[03:24:49] <Valen> the only thing that will do that is homing
[03:25:27] <Tom_itx> what i'm looking for had me mdi some stuff to clear it
[03:28:05] <naked-misty> so then i should z all the way down, home the machine z, move up install bit touch off to 1.25 and i should be still above that 0 of the machine z
[03:28:36] <naked-misty> which would let me cut then
[03:29:26] <Tom_itx> my homed z position is tool retracted all the way up
[03:29:34] <Tom_itx> then i set my fixture offsets
[03:30:54] <Valen> you need to look at your ini files and see where your home is
[03:31:08] <Valen> personally we just made the machine limits 500000 in all directions
[03:31:13] <Valen> and never bothered homing
[03:31:21] <naked-misty> my machine will have home switches
[03:31:24] <Tom_itx> :/
[03:31:30] <naked-misty> just limits
[03:31:43] <Tom_itx> that's all i have
[03:31:51] <Valen> i believe there is a home on limit thing
[03:31:56] <Tom_itx> i have 2 on x and y and 1 on z
[03:31:59] <Valen> a few weeks ago i got the homing working
[03:32:18] <Tom_itx> it frustrates me that i can't find that
[03:32:33] <Valen> found the index pulse on our encoders
[03:34:13] <naked-misty> thats what i'm try'n to cut is some mounts for my limit switches
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[03:36:38] <Tom_L> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems
[03:36:47] <Tom_L> 3. may possibly be what i found
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[03:41:23] <naked-misty> seemed to get it to work again
[03:41:36] <Tom_itx> what did you do?
[03:42:33] <naked-misty> since my emc is setup as 0.0 being the machine table
[03:43:38] <naked-misty> i jogged all the way down on z axis, almost 3.4 inches, which almost had my router collet touching the work
[03:43:54] <naked-misty> zeroed the axis
[03:45:37] <naked-misty> moved up on z put in the bit moved down so eyeballed 1.25 off of work, removed bit
[03:46:12] <naked-misty> ran program and drilled my 4 holes with out any errors
[03:47:19] <naked-misty> oh don't forget touched off to 1.25 after eyeballing
[03:50:48] <naked-misty> have to thank Valen for the machine coord info
[03:51:26] <naked-misty> must have been working on saturday because of shear blind luck
[03:51:27] <Valen> no worries
[03:58:05] <naked-misty> thanks for the help, maybe I can get around to getting them cut out this week.
[03:58:12] <naked-misty> nite
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[06:28:19] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[06:48:09] <AitalMAC> psha do you have a minute?
[06:48:51] <psha[work]> yes
[06:49:07] <AitalMAC> i have a problem with Axis Embed Video
[06:49:45] <AitalMAC> the camera soemtimes freeze and i have to make again the camviewcfg from camview-emc
[06:50:02] <AitalMAC> I dunno if you have read my post on the forum
[06:50:22] <psha[work]> probably not
[06:50:34] <psha[work]> link?
[06:50:50] <AitalMAC> anyway the camera change for i dunno what reason from input4vl:1 to input4vl:0
[06:51:10] <psha[work]> 1 to 0 or 0 to 1?
[06:51:27] <psha[work]> 0 to 1 may be caused by random USB disconnects
[06:51:29] <AitalMAC> it goes both ways
[06:51:33] <AitalMAC> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,38/id,13865/lang,english/
[06:51:43] <psha[work]> check dmesg
[06:51:43] <AitalMAC> Sometimes it's 0 sometimes it's 1
[06:51:54] <psha[work]> digit maps to /dev/videoX number
[06:52:33] <psha[work]> and what's in logs?
[06:52:48] <AitalMAC> write in terminal "maps to /dev/videoX number" ???
[06:52:53] <psha[work]> no
[06:53:03] <psha[work]> it's just description of what's happenning :)
[06:53:04] <AitalMAC> Oh in logs there is the same error message over and over again
[06:53:16] <psha[work]> after freeze/change you should look into dmesg
[06:53:21] <AitalMAC> Ok
[06:53:34] <AitalMAC> And what should i look for?
[06:53:37] <psha[work]> i suspect you'll found something USB related there
[06:53:58] <psha[work]> what lines fill emc log?
[06:54:06] <psha[work]> probably i can silent them a bit
[06:54:17] <AitalMAC> soemthing like input4vl:0 not found
[06:54:35] <psha[work]> reasonable
[06:54:36] <AitalMAC> i'm not on ubuntu right now
[06:54:48] <AitalMAC> so i can't tell you exactly
[06:54:56] <psha[work]> so - wait until freeze, check dmesg and a bit of lines from log
[06:55:24] <psha[work]> if i'm right you have problems with either camera (cable) or it's driver
[06:55:51] <AitalMAC> ok i'll get back with my findings, but i think it will be in a few days
[06:56:01] <AitalMAC> the wire it's a very long wire
[06:56:06] <psha[work]> np, i'm always somewhere around
[06:56:07] <AitalMAC> 10 meter
[06:56:19] <psha[work]> that might be the problem
[06:56:26] <AitalMAC> I was also thinking that
[06:56:43] <AitalMAC> But my friend told me that it could be that the camera goes in standby
[06:56:50] <AitalMAC> and i don't know how to prevent that
[06:56:51] <psha[work]> so my bet is that camera is lost and reinitialized
[06:56:55] <Valen> AitalMAC: take a look at syslog
[06:57:05] <Valen> usb connects and disconnects are written to there
[06:57:15] <psha[work]> since /dev/video0 (or 1) is busy by camview it's bound to nonexisting device (1 or 0)
[06:57:24] <Valen> also you don't have more than one camera type device ?
[06:57:35] <AitalMAC> ok i'll check that too
[06:57:41] <AitalMAC> no i have just one camera
[06:57:56] <AitalMAC> No other video devices
[06:57:59] <Valen> just a tail /var/log/syslog -n 200 should show you stuff
[07:01:55] <psha[work]> Valen: usually dmesg has more info
[07:02:17] <psha[work]> ah, it's replicated to syslog
[07:02:46] <AitalMAC> Yes in fact those two file have write a lot of stuff in it
[07:02:48] <Valen> i've seen more in syslog than dmesg
[07:02:59] <AitalMAC> too much actually
[07:03:04] <Valen> dmesg is hardware only stuff as i recall
[07:03:06] <AitalMAC> around 15GB size for each
[07:03:10] <Valen> wow
[07:03:23] <Valen> dmesg is only since boot
[07:03:45] <psha[work]> Valen: syslog contains lot of stuff from daemons/etc
[07:03:47] <Valen> syslog should get rotated every day or so
[07:04:17] <AitalMAC> In 2 hour work if camera freeze i have HD full allerts
[07:04:23] <Valen> psha[work]: yeah, thats why i like it, dmesg will tell you a usb whatsit has been plugged in, syslog lets you know what the system is doing ;->
[07:04:44] <Valen> you might want to look into getting syslog to squelch that
[07:04:53] <AitalMAC> how?
[07:05:11] <psha[work]> hm, usually it's enought for me to know what's going on from dmesg ;)
[07:05:23] <Valen> AitalMAC: that one i don't know off hand
[07:05:35] <Valen> psha[work]: the linux way, theres lots of ways ;->
[07:06:05] <psha[work]> in syslog you'll get udev messages probably
[07:06:12] <psha[work]> which are not that interesting
[07:06:25] <Valen> but you can do it
[07:07:19] <Valen> http://www.rsyslog.com/doc/rsyslog_conf_filter.html and http://serverfault.com/questions/15106/is-there-a-way-to-filter-syslog-entries might be a place to start AitalMAC
[07:07:53] <AitalMAC> ok i'll look into those
[07:08:01] <psha[work]> Valen: heh, at least now he should check that USB is disconnected and try shorter cable :]
[07:08:06] <psha[work]> why to bother with syslog? :D
[07:09:02] <Valen> might help him find out whats going on ;->
[07:10:31] <psha[work]> heh, 'usb-cable-watcher-daemon: Camera is disconnected due to scheduled disonnect' :]
[07:10:44] <psha[work]> unfurtunately there is no such daemon :(
[07:11:02] <psha[work]> and thus nobody logs such things into syslog othere then dmesg lines :-P
[07:11:10] <AitalMAC> can't you stop the camera if it's not working anymore instead of having it send error messages untill the syslog is big like the hard disk?
[07:12:25] <psha[work]> yes, that's why i need some lines from logs
[07:12:32] <psha[work]> to know what exact message fills them
[07:12:35] <AitalMAC> ok
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[07:13:31] <AitalMAC> I have another question, is it possible to have the machine follow a line draw on a paper when viewed from the camera?
[07:13:55] <AitalMAC> like some robot that follow line on the floor
[07:14:27] <psha[work]> why not
[07:14:42] <psha[work]> but you should write plugin that detects line
[07:15:47] <AitalMAC> plugin where?
[07:16:32] <AitalMAC> plugin for EMC, or for camview?
[07:16:39] <psha[work]> camview
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[07:17:41] <AitalMAC> camview-emc is open source?
[07:17:44] <psha[work]> sure
[07:17:57] <psha[work]> camview-emc is small python script on top of camunits framework
[07:18:10] <psha[work]> i've written python bindings for it
[07:18:23] <psha[work]> but core is in C (+glib)
[07:18:46] <psha[work]> there are several emc-related plugins (crosshair, halio, etc...)
[07:20:13] <AitalMAC> where can i find the source for camview-emc?
[07:20:25] <psha[work]> http://psha.org.ru/git/psha/
[07:21:00] <psha[work]> http://psha.org.ru/cgit/psha/cu-plugins/
[07:21:05] <psha[work]> camview-emc
[07:21:13] <psha[work]> http://psha.org.ru/cgit/psha/emc-camunits/
[07:21:16] <psha[work]> halio plugin
[07:21:28] <AitalMAC> thanks a lot
[07:22:07] <psha[work]> if you want to track line probably you should write plugin that detects line direction
[07:22:20] <psha[work]> or direction to the closest line if there is no one in the 'center'
[07:23:06] <AitalMAC> what are the halio plugin for?
[07:24:27] <psha[work]> exchange info with emc HAL
[07:24:38] <psha[work]> however it's not good example of how to do that :]
[07:24:48] <psha[work]> since it don't register pin but hooks into existing one
[07:25:13] <AitalMAC> ok
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[14:16:58] <JT-Shop> I think it will rain all day today
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[15:10:16] <FinboySlick> Weee! I finally god my indicator and caliper.
[15:10:23] <FinboySlick> got
[15:13:46] <skunkworks> yay
[15:17:55] <FinboySlick> They're beaUUutiful....
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[16:22:07] <JT-Shop> Yippie!
[16:27:14] <JT-Shop> photo?
[16:31:01] <syyl> "photos or it didnt happen"
[16:31:02] <syyl> ;)
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[16:46:45] <Danimal_garage> hi
[17:08:14] <FinboySlick> Photos? Um... Starrett 798 and 711
[17:08:55] <FinboySlick> And yeah, I know I'm probably paying a lot of extra money just for the name.
[17:09:24] <Danimal_garage> Starrett? look at you, Mr. Fancy Pants
[17:09:36] <Tom_itx> B&S was all i could afford
[17:09:38] <Danimal_garage> i'm cheap, i got mitutoyo
[17:09:50] <Tom_itx> 20 yrs ago :)
[17:09:57] <Danimal_garage> well i guess i have some starrett mics
[17:10:03] <Danimal_garage> i think i got a little of everything
[17:11:25] <Danimal_garage> fowler, scherr tumico, b&s, starrett, mitutoyo, lufkin
[17:12:10] <jdhNC> harbor freight
[17:12:17] <Danimal_garage> haha
[17:12:25] <Danimal_garage> none here fortunately
[17:12:40] <Danimal_garage> i think i have a couple spi indicators, about the same as harbor freight i guess
[17:12:55] <archivist> I dont think mitutoyo is cheap
[17:12:56] <Danimal_garage> oh wait i do have a harbor freight drop indicator for the lathe
[17:13:07] <Danimal_garage> cheaper than starrett
[17:13:31] <Danimal_garage> i like my digimatic calipers
[17:13:47] <Danimal_garage> i've had them for 12 years or so i think
[17:13:51] <archivist> starrett is a bit like Apple all name and shiny but what is really extra
[17:14:11] <Danimal_garage> archivist: i really like my starrett tap wrenches
[17:14:22] <syyl> sounds like buying mahr or mitutoyo ;)
[17:14:47] <archivist> I do have some Starrett though :)
[17:14:49] <Danimal_garage> mitutoyo is cheap for digital callipers, IMO
[17:15:03] <Danimal_garage> i think i paid $99 for mine
[17:15:11] <syyl> bzt they are not bad
[17:15:15] <syyl> i like mine at work
[17:15:17] <archivist> one needs to check gib screws on the calipers
[17:15:20] <Danimal_garage> they used to be about $50 less than everyone else
[17:15:24] <Loetmichel> hmmm, CHEAP for digital calipers is "noname"
[17:15:36] <Loetmichel> in germany: "aldi"
[17:15:45] <Spida> medion.
[17:15:54] <Loetmichel> 10 eurs for a 150mm caliper (cheap)
[17:15:58] <archivist> I have the crappy Aldi ones too
[17:16:00] <Danimal_garage> Loetmichel: you'd get laughed out of a machine shop with chineese callipers
[17:16:07] <syyl> right
[17:16:14] <syyl> or it gets used as an wrench
[17:16:16] <Loetmichel> oh, i have half a dozen of them
[17:16:18] <syyl> or a bottle opener
[17:16:30] <Loetmichel> for marking parts
[17:16:33] <Danimal_garage> i use the cheap ones on my car, that's about it
[17:16:36] <archivist> I have checked accuracy with glass standards and the Aldi shit works
[17:16:54] <archivist> just they kill batteries
[17:16:56] <syyl> yes, as long as you measure paralell surfaces
[17:17:01] <syyl> measure something round
[17:17:10] <syyl> gets interesting ;)
[17:17:12] <Loetmichel> (dont know the english word, in german it is "parallelanreisser"
[17:17:15] <Loetmichel> )
[17:17:31] <Danimal_garage> archivist: that's a bit like showing up for work at General Motors or Ford in a Honda. You'll find your car on the roof in the parkinglot.
[17:17:37] <archivist> look for tight when closed and check gib screws!
[17:18:05] <syyl> there are two possible adjustments
[17:18:09] <syyl> locked and loose ;)
[17:18:13] <Danimal_garage> lol
[17:18:20] <Loetmichel> archivist: the cheap chinese stuff is ok, als long as you get the sled to stay parallel, i.e if the slides are justified to nearly 0 play
[17:18:49] <syyl> banned all chinese measuring tools from my shop...
[17:18:51] <archivist> 0 play is important regardless of make
[17:19:14] <archivist> seen out of adjustment mitutoyo too
[17:19:22] <syyl> oh, stop, one cheap dial indicator on the shaper..
[17:19:29] <syyl> need to replace it one day...
[17:19:53] <archivist> ex boss was a terror for his calipers being loose and inaccurate
[17:19:55] <Loetmichel> archivist: but in the chinese department i have two calipers which will not be adjustable to 0 play
[17:19:57] <Danimal_garage> when the tips get worn, you dimple the back of the jaws with a ball bearing, just above the tips.
[17:20:01] <Loetmichel> not even close to 0
[17:20:03] <syyl> otherwise...
[17:20:22] <syyl> if i want to measure something precise
[17:20:25] <Loetmichel> 'cause it will lock half way down if you adjust it to 0
[17:20:27] <syyl> i dont go for calipers ;)
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[17:21:06] <archivist> Loetmichel, adjust (grind/wet and dry) the shaft
[17:21:06] <Danimal_garage> i have never adjusted my Mitutoyo callipers in the 12 or so years i've used them
[17:21:16] <Danimal_garage> and i use them daily
[17:21:23] <Loetmichel> archivist: on a eur 10,- tool?
[17:21:28] <Loetmichel> why should i?
[17:21:39] <archivist> make em better
[17:21:41] <Loetmichel> i have about 6 of the calipers
[17:22:24] <Danimal_garage> 6 shitty callipers at $10 a pop is the same price as one good pair of calipers, yet not as good.
[17:22:35] <Danimal_garage> lol
[17:22:41] <Loetmichel> 2 are bad, used as wrench and anything you need a rough guess, teh other 4 are good, cant find a difference to the one mitutoyo i have
[17:22:50] <Tom_L> we used the crappy ones in the coolant filled machines
[17:23:19] <Loetmichel> so no need to invest work in the shitty ones
[17:23:45] <syyl> my prefered one is a mechanical one with vernier...
[17:23:51] <syyl> works even under water ;)
[17:24:05] <Danimal_garage> Tom_L: i get my mitutoyos wet all the time, just blow them out with air and they're good
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[17:24:14] <Tom_L> i know
[17:24:23] <Danimal_garage> one day i'll get the fancy waterproof ones
[17:24:38] <Tom_L> chips make the mechanical ones skip about .020"
[17:24:48] <Danimal_garage> haha yea i dont miss that
[17:28:19] <andypugh> This is entertaining. The good news is that my EMC2 machine will boot to console off the SSD, and I have copied-off the emc2-dev directory.
[17:29:22] <Tom_itx> i suppose as long as you know the thickness anything would work for a tool touch pad
[17:29:37] <andypugh> I can boot from a liveUSB EMC2 installer, but that says it can't find a live filesystem, and that too exits to a limited command line. Indeed it can be seen that there is no sda1 in /dev/ when booted from USB. I wonder what is happening?
[17:30:01] <Tom_itx> andy is your drive going away?
[17:30:50] <Jymmm> andypugh: There are a few ways that LiveUSB are created. If not properly done, you can see what your describing FWIW.
[17:30:58] <Tom_itx> that is one reason i have several pc's
[17:31:03] <Jymmm> s/can/will/
[17:31:07] <Tom_itx> keep stuff current on all of them
[17:31:22] <andypugh> Yeah, it looks like it is dying.
[17:31:39] <andypugh> Any clues how to try to recover it?
[17:31:46] <Jymmm> andypugh: It's worked all this time, but now you're hving issues?
[17:31:59] <andypugh> Yeah, it's been fine for a year or more.
[17:32:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'd dd the stick to another one.
[17:32:33] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, what's that wear leveling software...
[17:32:39] <Tom_itx> i'd sure enable it on ubuntu
[17:33:09] <Tom_itx> and make sure your ssd supports it
[17:33:09] <andypugh> Yes, well, when we have finished discussing how best to lock stable doors :-)
[17:33:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Not sure, I dont trust/use those, I just backup sticks instead and then I have a copy too.
[17:33:20] <Loetmichel> syyl: for use in cooling fluid: try these: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5341
[17:33:21] <Tom_itx> so do i
[17:33:26] <Loetmichel> (the lower ones ;-)
[17:33:31] <Tom_itx> andy it seldom comes up otherwise :)
[17:34:02] <syyl> i had plastic calipers with 6...
[17:34:24] <Loetmichel> syyl: that was a joke ;-)
[17:34:28] * Tom_itx stabs syyl wiht a plastic fork
[17:34:29] <andypugh> I am likely just to buy a replacement SSD of exactly the same type, as I modified my PSU to drive it neatly
[17:34:54] <syyl> about as usefull as the plastic calipers, Tom_itx ;)
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[17:35:35] <Loetmichel> syyl>_ the plastic calipers are GREAT fpr electronicans measurign on live equipment
[17:35:40] <Loetmichel> BTDT
[17:35:41] <Danimal_garage> when i go plastic, i choose sporks.
[17:35:47] <Jymmm> andypugh: dd if=/dev/exist_usb_stick of=/dev/new_usb_stick and wait a long time. But BE CAREFUL and not do any typos and make sure you specify the correct devices or you can destroy everything.
[17:36:17] <andypugh> Jymmm: To do what?
[17:36:31] <Jymmm> andypugh: To make a backup usb stick
[17:36:58] <andypugh> I don't need a backup USB stick.
[17:37:01] <Tom_itx> do they come in 1Tb?
[17:37:16] <andypugh> I need to repair (if possible) the filesystem on my SSD
[17:37:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: k
[17:37:55] <Jymmm> andypugh: Backing up a SSD/USB is the same process.
[17:38:50] <andypugh> I have already backed-up the bits that matter (EMC2-dev)
[17:39:10] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Jymm's trick only works if the target stick is larger, btw, regardless of free space.
[17:39:25] <FinboySlick> Larger or equal.
[17:39:29] <FinboySlick> Obviously.
[17:39:37] <andypugh> And that's another problem.
[17:39:49] <Jymmm> andypugh: *sigh* the purpose is NOT to backup data, but to get to a clean non-wore down drive
[17:40:16] <FinboySlick> And you can try to do recovery on the image instead of the faulty stick.
[17:40:22] <andypugh> OK, but to do that I need a new drive.
[17:40:32] <FinboySlick> andypugh: You can do that on a standard hard drive.
[17:40:38] <Jymmm> andypugh: or a hdd or whatever
[17:40:49] <Jymmm> or even a file if you like
[17:40:50] <FinboySlick> In fact, you can do that to a file of an existing hdd.
[17:41:09] <andypugh> I was hoping to DD through ssh (which I have done before) but I don't know how to enable that from the command line.
[17:41:25] <FinboySlick> dd will take every bit of data as they are on the stick, where they are on the stick, and put them in the target, be it a file or another disk.
[17:41:29] <Jymmm> andypugh: enable what?
[17:41:37] <Jymmm> oh, ew
[17:41:56] <FinboySlick> andypugh: That's a bit tricky. Could be easier with netcat.
[17:42:08] <FinboySlick> do you have netcat/nc on the source and target boxes?
[17:42:16] <Jymmm> andypugh: You don't want to be booted into the drive you are trying to dd, BAD IDEA. Use a love boot cd, like http://sysreasccd.org
[17:42:25] <Jymmm> s/love/live/
[17:42:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: sysresccd will allow ssh into it too
[17:43:17] <FinboySlick> Yeah, and it's pretty good at detecting hardware.
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[17:44:03] <andypugh> Here's the current situation. I have a Mac, a USB to SATA (full size) adaptor and an (important) SATA 3.5" drive. The EMC2 machine has this SSD: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Portable-Black-Two-channels-MLC-Flash-DOM-Disk-Module-8GB-7-PIN-SATA-SSD-/320760463565
[17:44:29] <andypugh> That has a female SATA socket. So won't plug into anything except a motherboard.
[17:45:04] <FinboySlick> andypugh: If you really want to dd through ssh, i can setup something here that should be foolproof and hand you the recipe.
[17:45:25] <cradek> ssh pipes stdin/stdout across the session, so it is trivial
[17:45:27] <FinboySlick> It'll be a tad slow regardless of how you do it though.
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[17:45:33] <Tom_L> http://www.dalco.com/ProductDetails2.aspx?sku=73875
[17:45:33] <Jymmm> andypugh: Out of curiosity, why ssh?
[17:45:42] <cradek> ssh otherhost dd if=whatever |dd of=whatever
[17:45:54] <Tom_itx> $3 male adapter
[17:46:17] <FinboySlick> what I had in mind was pretty much what cradek said.
[17:46:17] <cradek> you don't need a new device if you have room; you can copy into a file and mount it loopback.
[17:46:43] <andypugh> because ssh is the only way I know to remote log-in to the EMC2 box, and is certainly the only way that is currently enabled (and even that doesn't work at the moment as the machine only boots to command-prompt)
[17:47:07] <FinboySlick> cradek: He can mount it loopback if he dumps the partition, if he dumps the drive he'll need to hop through a couple hoops first.
[17:47:07] <Jymmm> andypugh: you check the logs?
[17:47:10] <cradek> easiest is to just discard the bad device and restore from backup
[17:48:00] <andypugh> Yeah, that's my plan. I can just do a LiveCD install, copy back emc2-dev, and be back where i was.
[17:48:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: If you have physical access to the box, ssh at this point is a waste of time.
[17:48:16] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Do you know where the data you need to recover is?
[17:48:17] <andypugh> Trouble is, that it will take at least a week for a new drive to arrive
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[17:48:31] <FinboySlick> you can always just scp.
[17:48:46] <FinboySlick> Less chances of you hitting bad sectors and hanging your transfer.
[17:48:51] <Jymmm> andypugh: you dont have ANY other hdd's?
[17:49:41] <andypugh> Yes, I have one that is my backup drive. But it's in Mac HFS.
[17:50:05] <FinboySlick> andypugh: That'll work fine with the scp method. You can also pipe a tar backup through ssh.
[17:50:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: any AVAILABLE to be reformatted hdd's?
[17:50:07] <andypugh> What I don't have is any way to power a mechanical drive in the EMC2 box.
[17:50:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: what pc is this?
[17:50:43] <Tom_itx> the ssd looked like it fit a laptop
[17:50:51] <andypugh> It's a D510MO with a PicoPSU
[17:50:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: ah.
[17:51:19] <andypugh> The SSD plugs into any SATA port. It's a neat solution, and a good one if you aren't using it to develop EMC2 on it :-)
[17:51:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ok, do you HAVE to have the emc box up NOW, is it it a WANT?
[17:51:27] <Tom_itx> as cheap as they are you should have a spare D510 with ssd ready to rock
[17:51:32] <FinboySlick> andypugh: If you only need to recover a bit of the data on it, I suggest you focus on just nat, not the whole drive.
[17:51:48] <andypugh> I have all that I need off if it already.
[17:51:58] <Tom_itx> good
[17:52:05] <FinboySlick> OK, so you just want it up and running?
[17:52:20] <Jymmm> andypugh: Do you have jobs pending that REQUIRE you to have emc running RIGHT NOW???
[17:52:27] <andypugh> I want to get the machine up and running in an attempt to squeeze 7i76/7i69/7i70/7i71 support into the 2.5 release
[17:52:43] <Tom_itx> he's lookin out for us
[17:52:56] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: Let's mobilize!
[17:53:05] <FinboySlick> Wait, I don't have any of that hardware...
[17:53:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I understand that, but that's nothting that couldn't wait till next release, or sub-release.
[17:53:15] <FinboySlick> What's in it for me?
[17:53:18] <Danimal_garage> 2.5 is coming out soon?
[17:54:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: If he has customers waiting (which is what I thought), that was the solution I was addressing.
[17:54:09] <Tom_itx> i know
[17:54:39] <andypugh> I don't _have_ customers.
[17:55:30] <Jymmm> andypugh: Eeeesh, then the hell with ya! You wait like everybody else! LOL
[17:55:48] <Danimal_garage> well, gee, with that additude you wont
[17:55:57] <Jymmm> hahahaha
[17:55:59] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Don't worry, Jymmm's just a big meany. I'll still help you.
[17:56:04] <FinboySlick> ;)
[17:56:08] <Tom_itx> suckup
[17:56:11] <FinboySlick> Meanie Jymmm, meanie...
[17:56:49] * Tom_itx teleports a nice new shiny ssd to andypugh
[17:56:54] <Jymmm> Yeah, I do disaster recovery where hours count. If you CAN wait till you get a new drive, all this talkin is pointless.
[17:57:28] <FinboySlick> I on the other hand am a recovering disaster. The hours don't count.
[17:57:43] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[17:58:40] <Danimal_garage> it would be cool if there was a feedrate slide that didn't slow down the rapid moves as well
[17:58:57] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: I've had to "dump" one of the "to be fired" attorneys computer in 30m while they were sitting with HR once. I hated being put into that position and having to do that, but I got it done.
[17:59:38] <FinboySlick> 30min, I hope the drive wasn't too big.
[17:59:44] <Tom_itx> ooo Jymmm is an evil one
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[18:00:12] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: It was, but I knew the FS well enough to grab the critical items ASAP
[18:00:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Sad, but true *sigh*.
[18:00:34] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: What do you do knowing the FS of lawayers, don't you have ethics man?
[18:01:27] <andypugh> Danimal_garage: I think you could wire a GladeVCP slider into the adaptive feed input, that would probably do what you want.
[18:01:35] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: The head lawyer gave the approval, as did my boss, and our CFO. I had no choice =(
[18:02:02] <FinboySlick> Weak excuse... I'm disappointed in you.
[18:02:07] <Danimal_garage> andypugh: thanks, i'll see if i can figure out how to do that someday
[18:02:21] <Danimal_garage> not a big deal, i just thought it would be cool to have in EMC
[18:02:23] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Eh
[18:02:45] <FinboySlick> You demand a warrant.
[18:02:54] <FinboySlick> They're attorneys, they'll understand ;)
[18:03:00] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Dont have to, it's company property.
[18:03:01] <Danimal_garage> FinboySlick: join the club (his parents started it)
[18:03:14] <Danimal_garage> :)
[18:03:36] <abilos> hello people, sorry for me to barge in here but i have a problem with EMC2 crashing with the following error: http://pastebin.ca/2091139
[18:03:39] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: But, if it makes you feel any better, I always install a dead man script on my stuff =)
[18:04:04] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: You little Lolsec rebel you.
[18:04:16] <abilos> it used to work perfectly before, then I did not turn on the EMC2 machine for a month or two, and now I applied the most recent updates... now it greets me with the above error
[18:04:31] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: "Outsource me you bastards!"
[18:04:32] <cradek> X Error of failed request: BadLength (poly request too large or internal Xlib length error)
[18:04:42] <cradek> it seems like your opengl is broken
[18:04:48] <cradek> can you run other opengl apps like glxgears?
[18:04:52] <abilos> let me try
[18:05:32] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: TrueCrypt is my friend =)
[18:05:43] <abilos> same error, i know where to look now :) thank you very much :D
[18:05:47] <cradek> considering X_GLXVendorPrivateWithReply, I suspect you've mucked about with the accursed nvidia binary blob driver
[18:05:59] * FinboySlick calls homeland security.
[18:06:04] <abilos> cradek: or i seem to have an ancient intel 815 videocard :S
[18:06:29] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: LOL, they're a joke. Call em, you need the number?
[18:06:32] <abilos> i do remember of some ancient intel cards becoming deprecated
[18:06:32] <cradek> pastebin the output of glxinfo?
[18:06:44] <abilos> cradek: just a sec, coming right up
[18:07:03] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Thugs don't need to be competent.
[18:07:29] <abilos> cradek: here you go http://pastebin.ca/2091140
[18:07:40] <andypugh> abilos: You should find that the tkemc example configs work fine
[18:07:44] <cradek> heh well that doesn't work very well either does it
[18:07:54] <cradek> consider http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#Installing_Software_based_OpenGL
[18:08:19] <abilos> thanks, i will look into that... so possible with the kernel update that my 3d support got lost?
[18:08:22] <cradek> or yeah, check google for clues, you've definitely got bogus opengl
[18:08:43] <cradek> what do you mean kernel update? how did you install?
[18:09:23] <abilos> hmm, well it had about 80 updates when i allowed the machine to update
[18:09:37] <abilos> but that would be incorrect as EMC2 provides the correct kernel updates
[18:09:54] <cradek> did you install from the linuxcnc ubuntu 10 + emc livecd?
[18:09:55] <abilos> i installed from a EMC2 distribution cd on an ancient compaq evo pentium 4 machine
[18:10:07] <abilos> cradek: i used the EMC2 livecd
[18:10:20] <cradek> running the updates is good, and should not have installed a different kernel then
[18:10:39] <cradek> maybe do try switching to swx11
[18:10:43] <abilos> i figured as such, but strange that my opengl somehow got borked
[18:10:52] <cradek> well I doubt it worked before the updates
[18:10:59] <cradek> or do you know that it did?
[18:11:18] <abilos> yes, i have drilled about 40+ boards on this machine :D
[18:11:33] <abilos> but that was prior the updates
[18:11:41] <cradek> ok this is information you didn't share :-)
[18:12:22] <abilos> my apologies, i did mention it in my second message :).
[18:12:39] <abilos> is a reboot required for the software opengl?
[18:12:50] <cradek> probably
[18:12:58] <abilos> okay, rebooting, one moment please
[18:13:00] <cradek> you didn't update across releases did you? like to 11.x?
[18:13:16] <abilos> a dist upgrade?
[18:13:33] <cradek> right
[18:13:33] <abilos> nope, not that i can remember. it throws a special dialog box when you do that, right?
[18:13:57] <cradek> I think it's a separate button in the updater screen
[18:14:23] <abilos> no, did not do that. the update screen went up with "you got updates" and i just clicked install
[18:14:35] <abilos> but let me check if it works, i will report back here
[18:14:39] <cradek> hm ok
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[18:17:28] <abilos> here we go
[18:17:31] <abilos> and it works :D
[18:17:40] <cradek> yay
[18:18:06] <abilos> too bad i mucked around for too long with it, its a bit too late to start a job now with +200 holes
[18:18:19] <abilos> dont want to disturb the neighbors too much
[18:18:30] <abilos> but anyways, thanks a lot
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[18:18:55] <cradek> welcome
[18:19:19] <abilos> signing off, take care
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[18:41:17] <Jymmm> Can 1/16" aluminum plate be plasma cut with clean edges by chance?
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[18:55:55] <Danimal_garage> i love it when i scrap a chainring for minor cosmetic reasons and it happens to be one i can run on my own bike
[18:56:43] <Danimal_garage> makes it hurt less, especially when it's titanium like this last one
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[19:15:20] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: water jet is kinda clean
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[19:16:06] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ah, ok. so I take that plasma is not a clean finish
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[19:25:27] <Tom_itx> when you use tool touch off is there a place in the ini or somewhere that you enter the gage height so it knows the offset from it?
[19:27:32] <cradek> Tom_itx: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/main.html#sec:G10-L11
[19:27:45] <cradek> this is what happens when you have "touch off to fixture" selected
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[19:36:47] <JT-Shop> yea, it's a bit lumpy Jymmm but depends on the thickness too
[19:37:26] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I just set my touch off point to Z0.0 for all tools that make sense to do so
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[19:37:56] <JT-Shop> then touch off one tool to the material in G54
[19:39:50] <Tom_itx> since i haven't done it yet i'm not sure how emc does it. i know how to set tools and offsets but emc with the touch off seems to be a little different than i may be used to
[19:45:14] <JT-Shop> what part confuses you?
[19:45:25] <robin_sz> Jymmm, yes, ally cuts fien with plasma, possibly a little burr on the back, easily removed with a fingernail
[19:45:41] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, just acounting for the touchplate thickness
[19:45:56] <robin_sz> if you get the pressures and speeds right, it should be clean
[19:47:11] <robin_sz> Jymmm, but even if you get the presures and speeds wrong, its easy to clean it up, usually just comes off by hand, or a quick scrape with a deburr tool
[19:47:28] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: when touching off the tool table if you use the same point the actual number is just a relative number between each tool
[19:47:40] <Tom_itx> i know
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[19:48:00] <JT-Shop> robin_sz: I must have had the speeds current wrong when I did a little ally a while back
[19:48:02] <Tom_itx> on my sherline i always use T1 to set the z fixture offset too
[19:48:13] <Tom_itx> we used a dowel pin on the big machines
[19:48:18] <robin_sz> Jymmm, I use one of these on anything im doing in ally anyway: http://www.directindustry.com/prod/noga-engineering/manual-deburring-tools-11972-46302.html
[19:48:36] <Tom_itx> and we just left it in the tool changer
[19:48:52] <robin_sz> JT-Shop, its normally a little higher pressure than steel, and a bit faster
[19:49:02] <robin_sz> from what I remember
[19:49:14] <JT-Shop> pressure? air pressure
[19:49:18] <JT-Shop> ?
[19:49:41] <Tom_itx> i'll just make the plate up and mess around with it
[19:50:53] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: now I'm not following what your talking about
[19:51:13] <Tom_itx> :)
[19:52:54] <robin_sz> yes, air pressure
[19:53:14] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i don't generally set z zero below the work piece
[19:53:18] <robin_sz> good rule of thumb for ally ... 100 amps = 4m/minute in 1/4" plate or 6mm plate
[19:53:32] <JT-Shop> hmm, my Hypertherm 1250 doesn't have much for pressure adjustment
[19:53:49] <robin_sz> theres a regulator on the 1250 I think?
[19:53:53] <Tom_itx> instead i'll use a 123 block or something to set the tools from that would be higher than the work and adjust it in the model
[19:54:20] <Tom_itx> we did that as a rule in the shop so and time you told the machine to go to z zero it would be clear of the work
[19:54:31] <Tom_itx> s/and/any
[19:54:37] <JT-Shop> yea, just looked and it is marked in psig
[19:55:22] <robin_sz> I found it worked better on ally when I turned it up a bit from what I used on steel
[19:55:39] <JT-Shop> ok, I'll remember that the next time
[19:56:15] <robin_sz> 1250 is an 80 amp machine?
[19:56:22] <JT-Shop> yea
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[19:56:40] <robin_sz> so try arouns 3m/minute in 1/4" plate
[19:56:46] <Tom_itx> i feel a nap coming on
[19:56:52] <robin_sz> 5 to 6m a minute in 3mm etc
[19:57:18] <robin_sz> 10% too slow, you get a burr
[19:57:26] <robin_sz> 10% too fast, you lose the cut
[19:57:46] <JT-Shop> cut chart shows 114IPM 139 arc voltage and 80 amps for 1/4" ally
[19:58:07] <robin_sz> whats 114 ipm in proper measurments?
[19:58:21] <JT-Shop> LOL
[19:58:45] <JT-Shop> 2,895.6mm min
[19:58:57] <robin_sz> well, there you go
[19:59:07] <robin_sz> 3m wasnt a bad guess
[19:59:22] <JT-Shop> I must have had something set wrong :/
[19:59:30] <robin_sz> bet you went too slow :)
[19:59:43] <robin_sz> or a crappy nozzle
[20:00:10] <JT-Shop> I might have got the number wrong... I have a bad habit of that
[20:00:33] <JT-Shop> I keep a pretty good eye on the consumables and toss any suspects
[20:00:53] <robin_sz> around 75 to 80psi is good,
[20:01:03] <robin_sz> aim for that with the gas flowing
[20:01:31] <JT-Shop> I normally cut at 75ish
[20:01:45] <JT-Shop> I'm make a note to try 80pisg
[20:01:45] <robin_sz> well, anyway
[20:01:58] <robin_sz> yeah a bit more on ally seems to help
[20:02:13] <robin_sz> people always tend to cut too slowly
[20:02:49] <robin_sz> anyway .. enough plasma for one day :)
[20:03:01] <JT-Shop> yea slowly is not better on a plasma that is for sure
[20:03:14] <robin_sz> it was Jymmm asking anyway, he probably only wants to cut up his parrot
[20:03:23] <JT-Shop> yea, time to make some chips over here
[20:03:49] <JT-Shop> glad you popped in with the good info, thanks
[20:04:00] <robin_sz> i pop by from time to time :)
[20:04:17] <robin_sz> been too busy playing with lasers to play with emc recently
[20:04:55] <Tom_itx> oh, JT-Shop what signal do you wire the tool touch pad to?
[20:05:13] <robin_sz> got a real nice 30W laser to play with at moment
[20:05:14] <JT-Shop> motion.probe.in or something like that
[20:05:19] <Tom_itx> ok
[20:05:23] <Tom_itx> i'll find it
[20:05:53] <JT-Shop> I don't use probing to set my tool table only on my plasma do I use probing move to find the material top
[20:06:18] <robin_sz> for info, when I had a router, for small cutters, I used a stainless steel bell-push button .. sort of resessed and flat topped, waterproof too
[20:06:39] <Tom_itx> do you use the same signal to probe the work offset for x y and z?
[20:07:47] <Tom_itx> or is it a separate input from the tool probe
[20:07:49] <robin_sz> this sort of thing: http://www.candccentral.co.uk/images/D/71076_0.jpg
[20:08:30] <robin_sz> worked well for tool length offsets in wood ... probably not accurate enough for milling
[20:08:57] <Tom_itx> i considered modding one of those led height thingies
[20:09:12] <robin_sz> ?
[20:09:16] <robin_sz> height thingy?
[20:09:25] <Tom_itx> one sec
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[20:10:45] <Tom_L> http://www.travers.com/skulist.asp?RequestData=CA_Search&navPath=All+Products%2F%2F%2F%2FUserSearch1%3Dtool+probe&q=block+id+33676+and+class+level3+id+29043&minPrice=$129.99
[20:11:28] <robin_sz> interseting
[20:11:36] <robin_sz> that wuold work well for milling I guess
[20:11:40] <Tom_itx> we used those in the shop
[20:11:55] <Tom_itx> 2"
[20:12:30] <Tom_itx> or making such an animal
[20:12:31] <robin_sz> right
[20:12:34] <robin_sz> looks neat
[20:12:53] <Tom_itx> i was either gonna make something similar or run wires outta one of them
[20:13:16] <robin_sz> the latter sounds easier for the $
[20:13:24] <robin_sz> 129$ ... cheap
[20:14:15] <robin_sz> waiting for the ppl on photonlexicon.com to come up with info on service mode plug for my laser
[20:14:38] <Tom_itx> i kinda want something with a little spring in it is all
[20:15:09] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna make another smaller touch probe for my sherline
[20:15:11] <robin_sz> they were all "well of course we know, but we dont share this with people unless they are experienced" ... so I showed them my previous lasers (all bigger than anyting they play with) and now it looks like they were all talk and bullshit
[20:15:28] <Tom_itx> figures
[20:15:42] <robin_sz> pesky laser
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[20:16:05] <robin_sz> just needs the output detectors calibrating
[20:16:13] <Danimal_garage> i wish i had a laser for part marking
[20:16:19] <robin_sz> overcomplicated medical crap
[20:16:52] <robin_sz> if the main output detector and the post-safety shutter detector do not match within 5% .. it estops
[20:17:47] <robin_sz> Danimal_garage, just send it out to a laser jobshop, they are more trouble than they are worth
[20:18:19] <robin_sz> the little 100W ones are fun for paper and plastic though
[20:18:21] <Danimal_garage> it would cost too much, i have too many variants of parts
[20:18:37] <robin_sz> just dxf them and send them
[20:19:37] <robin_sz> I used to own a laser jobshop, its what they do all day, every day .. modern nesting software just does it in minutes, wont cost alot
[20:19:43] <Danimal_garage> thousands of different parts
[20:19:56] <robin_sz> seems unlikley
[20:20:11] <Danimal_garage> ok.
[20:20:39] <Danimal_garage> i have over 1500 different part options last time i did the math
[20:20:50] <Danimal_garage> and i added some since then
[20:21:00] <robin_sz> and? why shoudl that be a problem to a jobshop?
[20:21:23] <robin_sz> they will nest it way faster than you will
[20:21:30] <robin_sz> and they work on low margins
[20:21:56] <Danimal_garage> there's no easy way to locate the parts without fixtures
[20:22:09] <robin_sz> then laser cutting is not for you
[20:22:13] <Danimal_garage> bottom line is i'm not sending them out
[20:22:22] <Danimal_garage> i do everything in house
[20:22:29] <robin_sz> no you dont
[20:22:30] <skunkworks> robin_sz: what do you like?
[20:22:43] <robin_sz> no one makes there own steel these days
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[20:23:36] <robin_sz> and unless you have serious cash, all lasering is done in flat sheet
[20:23:51] <robin_sz> not in fixtures
[20:24:23] <robin_sz> if it needs fixtures, you are better of milling it
[20:24:27] <Danimal_garage> this ball endmill sucks, i'm not buying this brand again.
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[20:25:04] <Danimal_garage> i have a cnc engraver, too much of a PITA because of thickness variables, etc
[20:26:41] <robin_sz> i think you have some misconceptions about what a laser will do for you
[20:27:57] <mrsun> robin_sz, ive made my own steel =)
[20:28:15] <mrsun> so some do :P
[20:28:19] <robin_sz> did you mine the ore?
[20:28:32] <mrsun> went about 5km out in the woods to get red sand yes =)
[20:28:47] <Danimal_garage> are you saying it can't make up for a few thousands in variance of the workpiece?
[20:29:02] <Danimal_garage> because the ones i've used can.
[20:29:23] <robin_sz> typically, they work in flat sheet
[20:29:32] <robin_sz> cutting parts out of the sheet
[20:29:40] <robin_sz> not cutting holes in fixtured parts
[20:29:46] <Danimal_garage> i'm talking about a laser engraver
[20:29:53] <robin_sz> oh, im not
[20:29:53] <Danimal_garage> nevermind
[20:30:22] <robin_sz> laser engravers typically are fixed focus
[20:30:39] <robin_sz> I have .. umm .. something in the shed
[20:30:45] <robin_sz> Universal Laser?
[20:31:01] <robin_sz> need the driver for it though :(
[20:31:42] <robin_sz> at the moment only have standard windows print driver so it does raster
[20:31:55] <robin_sz> need the UL driver to make it do vectors
[20:32:37] <Danimal_garage> the laser engraver we had where i used to work would be perfect, but i don't feel like dropping 10k right now
[20:33:06] <robin_sz> wonder what that was?
[20:33:13] <robin_sz> 10K is way expensive for co2
[20:33:24] <robin_sz> and too cheap for pulsed yag
[20:33:42] <Danimal_garage> i dont know
[20:34:08] <Danimal_garage> it was about 3 feet by 2 feet, had a door on the top to access the table
[20:34:18] <Danimal_garage> havent seen it in a few years
[20:34:19] <robin_sz> co2
[20:34:25] <Danimal_garage> it was yellow and silver
[20:34:34] <robin_sz> plenty of those now cheap cheap
[20:34:42] <Danimal_garage> they paid 10k for it a few years ago
[20:35:02] <Danimal_garage> with the software, etv
[20:35:05] <Danimal_garage> etc*
[20:35:23] <Danimal_garage> wasnt a cheap chineese one though
[20:35:34] <robin_sz> i picked on of these up
[20:35:35] <robin_sz> http://www.ulsinc.com/products/vls360/
[20:35:42] <robin_sz> (older version of that machine)
[20:36:01] <robin_sz> ebay, for 400
[20:36:29] <robin_sz> was non working, would not home
[20:36:33] <Danimal_garage> really? would it part mark steel or ti?
[20:36:41] <robin_sz> steel yes
[20:36:47] <robin_sz> ti, no
[20:36:47] <Danimal_garage> looks similar in style to what we had
[20:36:55] <robin_sz> at least dotn think so
[20:37:01] <Danimal_garage> i mostly do anodized aluminum
[20:37:06] <robin_sz> perfect for that
[20:37:16] <Danimal_garage> how many watts?
[20:37:21] <robin_sz> mine, 50
[20:37:26] <Danimal_garage> i see a few different sizes
[20:37:27] <robin_sz> that one is 60 I think
[20:37:42] <Danimal_garage> interesting
[20:37:48] <Danimal_garage> how did you fix it?
[20:37:52] <robin_sz> the fault on mine was a dead diode don stepper drive
[20:38:07] <robin_sz> took diode off the unused 4th axis driver
[20:38:14] <robin_sz> cost: 1 piece of solder
[20:38:23] <Danimal_garage> is it mostly off the shelf drives, or is everythnig propietary in those things?
[20:38:38] <robin_sz> proprietary in the UL stuff
[20:38:42] <robin_sz> theymake millionsof them
[20:38:57] <robin_sz> that machine is expensive new
[20:39:07] <robin_sz> but keep eye on ebay
[20:39:32] <Danimal_garage> yea i'll have to
[20:40:34] <Danimal_garage> with the size of my logo, i can only really engrave a few thousands deep or it looks like a blob. i cant make it bigger becasue there's no room. the parts usually vary in thickness a few thousands so its a PITA to engrave
[20:40:46] <Danimal_garage> ends up being too deep or too shallow
[20:41:01] <robin_sz> you use a proper floating nose-cone engraver?
[20:41:21] <robin_sz> normally, they dont care how thick or bent material is
[20:41:24] <Danimal_garage> no
[20:41:27] <Danimal_garage> hmm
[20:41:32] <Danimal_garage> didnt know about those
[20:41:34] <robin_sz> canbe warped and still get perfect depth of cut
[20:41:39] <Danimal_garage> nice
[20:41:47] <robin_sz> I thought you said you had cnc engraver?
[20:41:58] <Danimal_garage> homemade
[20:42:02] <robin_sz> ahh
[20:42:06] <Danimal_garage> just has a router spindle
[20:42:11] <robin_sz> ok
[20:42:15] <Danimal_garage> emc powered
[20:42:19] <robin_sz> not good for engraving
[20:42:32] <Danimal_garage> nope
[20:42:35] <robin_sz> proper ones use high speed spindle (50k)
[20:42:38] <robin_sz> rpm
[20:42:48] <robin_sz> and .. proper engraving tool
[20:43:01] <robin_sz> that sticks out through a ceramic "nose"
[20:43:17] <robin_sz> nose always rests on uncut material
[20:43:28] <Danimal_garage> ah
[20:43:42] <robin_sz> depth of cut set by micrometer adjustemnt of how far cutter pokes out
[20:43:59] <robin_sz> this is how all real cnc engravers do it
[20:44:04] <robin_sz> they are 2.5D
[20:44:09] <robin_sz> tool up, tool down
[20:44:40] <robin_sz> and always cut big areas in a spiral from centre out
[20:44:54] <scanf> for extending my db25 -> controller cable, in theory, should a db25->db25 cable + gender changer work?
[20:45:20] <Danimal_garage> i wonder if i can find one of those spindles to add to my machine
[20:45:34] <robin_sz> yeah, easy
[20:45:35] <Danimal_garage> it's a good machine otherwise
[20:45:41] <Danimal_garage> it's all servo
[20:45:44] <robin_sz> motor is usually seperate
[20:45:57] <robin_sz> drive to spindle via a rubber band/belt
[20:47:10] <Danimal_garage> http://www.dynacompinc.net/routeroptions.html
[20:47:52] <robin_sz> there you go
[20:48:16] <Danimal_garage> wonder how much...
[20:48:31] <Danimal_garage> as much as a laser probably haha
[20:48:47] <robin_sz> http://www.engraversnetwork.com/store/engraving_spindles.html
[20:48:55] <robin_sz> mmm, no where near
[20:49:05] <robin_sz> the actual spindle is really really basic
[20:49:18] <robin_sz> if you have a lathe, you could make it easy
[20:49:34] <robin_sz> just buy some engravign tools and some ceramic nosecones to play with
[20:50:08] <robin_sz> $400 or so
[20:50:12] <robin_sz> ^^
[20:51:56] <robin_sz> ahh .. sweet : http://www.engraversnetwork.com/images_dahlgren/509407_2213_650.jpg
[20:52:05] <robin_sz> look at that, perfect
[20:52:19] <Danimal_garage> nice
[20:52:25] <robin_sz> $460
[20:52:27] <Danimal_garage> that'd be easy to retrofit
[20:52:34] <robin_sz> see the pulley groove?
[20:52:40] <Danimal_garage> yea
[20:52:56] <robin_sz> rubber belt, to some motor of yoru choice
[20:53:42] <Danimal_garage> yea, one of these days i'll mess with it
[20:54:04] <robin_sz> it will make a huge difference to your engraving
[20:54:10] <Danimal_garage> if i can get this thing engraving good parts for about $1k, i'll be happy
[20:54:33] <Danimal_garage> i already have 500 into it
[20:54:44] <robin_sz> no reason why it wont of its smooth motion
[20:55:50] <robin_sz> its the floating nose-cone that makes all the fifference
[20:56:14] <robin_sz> you'll get professional results with that, every time
[20:57:30] <Danimal_garage> yea thanks for the info
[20:57:36] <Danimal_garage> didnt know much about them
[20:58:16] <robin_sz> there you go, I did someting useful ;)
[20:58:27] <Danimal_garage> haha
[20:58:44] <robin_sz> check ebay for "Dahlgren" and "gravograph" ... you might find someone parting one out
[21:03:03] <Danimal_garage> will do
[21:03:23] <Danimal_garage> i gotta get caught up before i work on that thing though, i got so much backlog right now...
[21:05:26] <andypugh> Scrolling back: I invented a steel formulation, with erbium as an alloying element. It worked well.
[21:05:52] <andypugh> I once tried reading Dahlgren, I can't recommend it.
[21:06:29] <robin_sz> I would ask why ... but I know better
[21:09:04] <andypugh> Which one? The steel was part of my job at the time, and Dhalgren is a SF book, and is one of only two books I have started and not finished.
[21:09:21] <robin_sz> steel
[21:09:32] <robin_sz> not sure what erbium would do in steel
[21:09:40] <robin_sz> makes good lasers though :)
[21:10:16] <andypugh> erbium is effective at pushing the nose of the TTT diagram into later time, so you can quench down to fine pearlite without hitting martensite.
[21:10:31] <robin_sz> hmm
[21:10:41] <robin_sz> those are surely english words
[21:10:55] <robin_sz> and i know what they mean, individually
[21:11:02] <andypugh> Yeah, the job before that I was working on Erbium fibre lasers. I might be the only person in the world to have two consecutive erbium-based jobs.
[21:11:10] <robin_sz> hehe
[21:11:23] <robin_sz> yeah, erbium doped yag is all I have played with
[21:11:28] <Danimal_garage> between the two of us, you're the only one to have a job, period.
[21:11:39] <robin_sz> jobs suck
[21:11:42] <robin_sz> I had oneonce
[21:11:43] <Danimal_garage> indeed
[21:11:48] <robin_sz> never again!
[21:11:53] <Danimal_garage> same here
[21:12:05] <robin_sz> i made it last 15 years though
[21:12:32] <Danimal_garage> i think 12 years for me
[21:12:51] <robin_sz> it would be a cold day in hell before I filled out a job application
[21:12:52] <Danimal_garage> several different jobs though
[21:13:26] <robin_sz> andypugh, did I send you laser piccy link?
[21:13:38] <andypugh> Not that I noticed.
[21:13:50] <robin_sz> https://picasaweb.google.com/robin.szemeti/Laserscope
[21:14:08] <robin_sz> 30 to 40 w of 532nm
[21:14:44] <Danimal_garage> i often wonder why some of the smarter people in here have jobs
[21:14:55] <robin_sz> they dont
[21:14:58] <Danimal_garage> they could make a ton more on their own
[21:15:11] <Danimal_garage> andypugh and cradek do i believe
[21:15:19] <robin_sz> exactly! ;)
[21:15:26] <cradek> smart and entrepreneurial are very different things
[21:15:33] <robin_sz> this is true
[21:15:38] <Danimal_garage> i'm neither
[21:15:48] <robin_sz> entrepeneurial can be equated to crazy
[21:15:49] <andypugh> robin_sz: It's lovely, what is it?
[21:16:03] <robin_sz> medical laser
[21:16:08] <robin_sz> 100W yag
[21:16:10] <andypugh> I am really not interested in making money.
[21:16:15] <robin_sz> qswitched
[21:16:28] <Danimal_garage> if you can make something halfway decent, even if it already exists, you can sell enough to make a living
[21:16:29] <robin_sz> into a ktp crystal
[21:16:33] <andypugh> I would like to be rich, but not if I have to work at it.
[21:16:43] <robin_sz> not related to money for me
[21:16:58] <robin_sz> I just cant stand being told what to do
[21:17:07] <robin_sz> especially by retards
[21:17:25] <Danimal_garage> same here, which is why i never read the directions :)
[21:17:36] <robin_sz> actually, to be fair, my last boss was excellent
[21:17:51] <robin_sz> but further up the chain you went, the scarcer brain cells became
[21:17:54] <andypugh> I seem to avoid that in most of my jobs. My bosses have always just left me to find my own tasks.
[21:17:54] <Danimal_garage> my last boss was a douche
[21:18:07] <robin_sz> andypugh, lucky
[21:18:28] <robin_sz> anyway, I shall soon have the beam out of that laser and pointing into random directions, oh yes
[21:19:02] <andypugh> You need to be seen to be keeping yourself busy for that to work. But they can't tell the difference between matlab and EMC2 :-)
[21:19:11] <robin_sz> hehe
[21:19:22] <Danimal_garage> ha
[21:19:36] <andypugh> (Joking, I don't actually do EMC2 at work, well, apart from the forums (which are back out of the filter spontaneously))
[21:19:57] <robin_sz> there are ways ;)
[21:20:09] <robin_sz> got a copy of Tails?
[21:21:04] <Danimal_garage> i wish i could find a shear small enough for my shop that can cut .125" thick sheets of 6-4 titanium
[21:21:19] <Danimal_garage> or at least .125" thick sheets of 7075-t6 aluminum
[21:21:27] <Danimal_garage> and for a decent price
[21:21:34] <robin_sz> how wide?
[21:21:39] <Danimal_garage> 48"
[21:21:49] <robin_sz> yeah, should be do-able
[21:21:56] <Danimal_garage> i want to buy material in full sheets, it's cheaper
[21:21:58] <robin_sz> most are bigger
[21:22:08] <robin_sz> 8' or 3m
[21:22:21] <Danimal_garage> yea, i have serious space and power constraints
[21:22:32] <robin_sz> thickness is not a problem though, thats thin thin thin
[21:22:36] <Danimal_garage> i'd prefer a kick shear, but doubt i can find one up to the task
[21:22:43] <robin_sz> not a chance
[21:22:47] <Danimal_garage> most i see are only 16ga
[21:22:49] <robin_sz> will need to be power
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[21:22:56] <Danimal_garage> i dont have 3 phase
[21:23:03] <robin_sz> so?
[21:23:16] <robin_sz> invertors are cheap
[21:23:18] <Danimal_garage> and cant even really get 220v where i'd need to put it (outside in the back yard)
[21:23:36] <robin_sz> you wont cut .125" by foot power
[21:23:51] <robin_sz> unless you are the size of andypugh
[21:23:51] <Danimal_garage> and i really can't get something very heavy back there either
[21:24:00] <andypugh> Oi!
[21:24:02] <robin_sz> you are screwed :)
[21:24:03] <Danimal_garage> yea, i know
[21:25:37] <Danimal_garage> it's ok, i'm american, and according to every other country, we're all fat
[21:26:41] <robin_sz> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Edwards-Truecut-3-25mm-X-1250mm-Sheet-Metal-Guillotine-/230681184390?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35b5ab8886
[21:28:40] <Danimal_garage> yea way too big and needs 400v
[21:29:06] <Danimal_garage> dammit i need a bigger shop
[21:29:07] <robin_sz> the 400V is irrelevant
[21:29:16] <robin_sz> you can power it easy
[21:29:21] <robin_sz> just the space
[21:29:38] <Danimal_garage> yea
[21:29:49] <robin_sz> VFD will run the motor off 220 easy
[21:29:55] <robin_sz> only 1kw or so usually
[21:30:04] <Danimal_garage> i have about 10 tons of equipment in a 500sqft space
[21:30:12] <Danimal_garage> i have a rotary phase converter
[21:30:17] <robin_sz> euuwww
[21:30:18] <robin_sz> ;)
[21:30:27] <robin_sz> driven from electric?
[21:30:35] <robin_sz> or ovehead belts and a steam engine?
[21:30:37] <robin_sz> wait ...
[21:30:45] <robin_sz> horses and a big wheel?
[21:31:21] <Danimal_garage> everything has vfd's on them for the 3 phase
[21:31:31] <robin_sz> thats the way
[21:31:38] <Danimal_garage> except my surface grinder which i barely use, that runs on the roto-phase
[21:31:46] * robin_sz nods
[21:31:51] <robin_sz> you need a bigger shop
[21:31:53] <Danimal_garage> even my coolant pumps have their own vfd's
[21:31:54] <robin_sz> and real juice
[21:32:14] <Danimal_garage> yea tell me about it
[21:32:20] <robin_sz> okies, I have to go
[21:32:24] <robin_sz> i shodl be coding!
[21:32:29] <robin_sz> dang it!
[21:32:34] <Danimal_garage> and i have a washer/dryer in here, plus my anodizing equipment
[21:32:36] <Danimal_garage> adios
[21:32:44] <robin_sz> heh, ok
[21:32:44] <Danimal_garage> and a motorcycle
[21:32:51] <robin_sz> good call
[21:32:57] <robin_sz> laters
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[21:48:12] * JT-Shop needs a surface grinder :)
[21:48:47] <Danimal_garage> still?
[21:48:57] <Danimal_garage> figured you'd have one already
[21:51:17] * Tom_itx points to the road out front
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[22:00:47] <JT-Shop> I tried using an angle grinder and some drawer slides but it didn't work well
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[22:07:05] <JT-Shop> andypugh: did you get your d510 back up and running?
[22:08:24] <andypugh> Yes and no
[22:08:59] <andypugh> It seems perfectly happy booting to a command prompt, but X/Gnome are very unhappy
[22:09:57] <JT-Shop> some bad areas on the ssd?
[22:11:33] <andypugh> No idea. How do you tell?
[22:11:47] <scanf> hi again
[22:12:04] <scanf> im going to rephrase my question from earlier cuz i know someone here knows
[22:12:10] <JT-Shop> chkdsk in winblows dunno in linux
[22:12:56] <scanf> okay i have a db25 cable from my parport that handles step/dir/en/gnd, there should be no issues if i added like a 6' db25<->db25 cable extender to make it longer.... right?
[22:14:03] <andypugh> scanf: Probably not, assuming that all the cables are fully wired. Many are not.
[22:14:39] <andypugh> And the extension cables are actually often Laplink cables, and they are wired crossed, and that is no help at all.
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[22:15:32] <scanf> so as long as it is a straight thru (non-modem cable) it should be good?
[22:16:30] <JT-Shop> andypugh: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1620415
[22:16:58] <scanf> andypugh: try 'badblocks'
[22:17:36] <DaViruz> scanf: modem cables are straight through
[22:17:42] <emcrules_CAD> andypugh: is the 7i73 working on emc?
[22:17:49] <andypugh> It gets through fsck OK. I think I need to remove the errors=mount-ro from the fstab
[22:17:56] <DaViruz> null-modem cables, oth, are not
[22:19:32] <scanf> modem cables vs null modem cables?
[22:20:48] <andypugh> scanf: Easiest just to test with a multimter
[22:21:04] <andypugh> emcrules_CAD: I don't know. It might.
[22:21:31] <andypugh> (Or, it is likely to when I get my machine back up and running)
[22:21:44] <emcrules_CAD> Oh i thought you had one
[22:21:58] <DaViruz> generally a male-female cable will be straight through- null modem cables are usually female-female
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[22:23:22] <emcrules_CAD> andypugh: how does the 7173 interface I can only see it in mesas price list. No docs or picture on the website.
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[22:28:11] <andypugh> I have no idea, I can't see it either. But I _think_ it is a SmartSerial device
[22:29:03] <andypugh> OK, So, if the fstab makes the ssd read-only, how can I make it not read-only, when the fstab file is on a read-only disk?
[22:30:19] <DaViruz> mount -o remount -o rw /
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[22:31:28] <DaViruz> or whatever mount point you need to make read-write
[22:39:19] <andypugh> DaViruz: It looks like I can't unmount the boot volume.
[22:39:34] <andypugh> If I boot from USB I can't see the drive at all.
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[22:41:05] <DaViruz> you don't need to unmount it, you need to remount it
[22:42:37] <DaViruz> add -n if mtab is giving you problems
[22:42:48] <DaViruz> (which it probably is coming to think about it)
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[22:47:35] <DaViruz> hmm, maybe it also needs to be -o remount,rw
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[22:48:58] <DaViruz> andypugh: to clarify: you can remount the file system into read-write even if it is currently mounted read only, and even though it is the root file system
[22:53:22] <andypugh> Well, you probably can if you haven't alreay screwed up the fstab
[22:53:47] <andypugh> What's the absolute most basic editor in linux? cat?
[22:56:21] <Tom_itx> emcrules_CAD, new stuff takes time to get published
[22:56:57] <Tom_itx> when you're riding on the bleeding edge of technology sometimes you gotta bleed a bit
[22:58:54] <andypugh> Forget that editor question, it is going to be easier to use cp, and edit it elsewhere :-)
[22:59:01] <Tom_itx> pico?
[22:59:04] <Tom_itx> err..
[22:59:17] <andypugh> I don't even have "ed" in that shelll
[23:00:13] <Tom_itx> if it were dos i'd suggest copy con
[23:01:11] <Tom_itx> yeah i used pico in debian
[23:01:22] <andypugh> No pico...
[23:01:30] <Tom_itx> nedit
[23:01:38] <Tom_itx> no
[23:01:40] <emcrules_CAD> Tom_itx: I agree just saw it on the website the other day and thought "gee that would save me a load of time"
[23:01:53] <Tom_itx> probably so
[23:02:18] <Tom_itx> soon as andy fixes his ssd problem you will quicker results i bet
[23:02:36] <emcrules_CAD> andypugh: any more doc updates on BLDC
[23:02:52] <Tom_itx> nedit is gui anyway
[23:04:28] <andypugh> no, sorry.
[23:06:05] <JT-Shop> andy you try nano
[23:06:20] <andypugh> Yes.
[23:06:27] <JT-Shop> vim and emacs?
[23:06:42] <andypugh> It's OK, I could mount a usb, cp it to that and edit elsewhere
[23:06:55] <JT-Shop> OK
[23:12:28] <emcrules_CAD> andypugh: They way I understand BLDC. I am able to use an incremental encoder (as one example) to derive hall tracks correct. Obviously I would have to know things like the # of poles and such.
[23:18:48] <andypugh> Yes. You also need an absolute reference which would have to be the index.
[23:19:50] <andypugh> (Actually, thinking about it, bldc can use pole A as reference, and that is what it would do in "qH" mode, which is what you would use for your application
[23:20:06] <emcrules_CAD> As I take it thats your way of bypassing the need for some sort of shake and wake?
[23:22:02] <andypugh> It basically is that. But without back-emf feedback into EMC2 we can't use the method used by sensorless drives.
[23:22:34] <emcrules_CAD> Hopefully I will be trying it out in the next few weeks. I will let you know how i make out.
[23:23:40] <emcrules_CAD> So you could potentially have one revoloution of rotation durring startup?
[23:24:15] <andypugh> e2fs -c "Warning, drive is mounted, you ****WILL**** cause ****SERIOUS**** file system damage if you proceed." I wonder if it is worth it?
[23:24:22] <andypugh> emcrules_CAD: Yes.
[23:24:49] <andypugh> And if you try for index startup (I can't remember if it even does that)
[23:28:02] <emcrules_CAD> Does this apply only when the encoder count is lossed due to power loss? Durring an E-stop we would still have the encoder counts correct.
[23:32:11] <DaViruz> andypugh: a simply readonly statement in fstab won't foil remount
[23:32:25] <DaViruz> what happens if you try to remount?
[23:32:30] <DaViruz> or doesn't the system boot at all?
[23:33:08] <DaViruz> in that case just tell the boot loader to use bash as init and mount root as readwrite
[23:33:15] <DaViruz> that way the fstab won't get read at all
[23:34:06] <DaViruz> and then you can edit away
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[23:39:14] <DaViruz> or you can just close your eyes, cover your ears and pretend i don't exist or know what i'm talking about
[23:40:50] <andypugh> emcrules_CAD: Yes
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[23:41:30] <andypugh> DaViruz: Sorry, I was upstairs fiddling with the broken machine
[23:42:08] <DaViruz> i wasn't refering to lag, that's to be expected on irc, i was refering to your reluctance to try the remount command
[23:42:35] <DaViruz> or at least tell me why it didn't work
[23:42:47] <andypugh> I tried remount, and found that I had messed up the fstab and that seemed to be part of the problem.
[23:43:09] <andypugh> I actually don't know what the problem is.
[23:43:31] <DaViruz> that command shouldn't care about the fstab
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[23:43:35] <andypugh> I am _assuming_ that it is a dead or dying SSD.
[23:44:30] <andypugh> The error message when I tried the mount/remount said that there was an invalid entry in the fstab. (which was true, because I had removed the error=mount-ro option)
[23:45:16] <DaViruz> hmm, maybe the device needs to be specified as wel in that case
[23:45:22] <andypugh> I actually have less evidence now than I had before that there is anything wrong with the SSD
[23:45:38] <andypugh> fsck runs with no comment
[23:45:49] <DaViruz> like mount -n -remount,rw /dev/sdxn /
[23:46:13] <andypugh> How do I tell is the drive is ro or rw?
[23:46:18] <Jymmm> Nah, andypugh just needs to clean his SSD by running it trough through the dish washer is all. Oh, and an oil change too (5 qts)
[23:46:31] <DaViruz> just "mount"
[23:46:36] <DaViruz> or cat /etc/mtab
[23:47:58] <andypugh> It's rw now, then.
[23:48:09] <DaViruz> oh.
[23:48:21] <andypugh> So, perhaps I have been making an invalid assumption.
[23:48:39] <DaViruz> but you still can't edit the file?
[23:49:10] <andypugh> fstab? I can edit that now, yes.
[23:49:38] <andypugh> The actual problem is that I can't start X
[23:50:18] <andypugh> I get some low-graphics mode warnings, but the only option that don't repeat endlessly without getting anywhere is to drop down to console start.
[23:50:55] <DaViruz> i see
[23:51:02] <DaViruz> X is a real beast to diagnose
[23:51:10] <andypugh> (So, starting in low-graphics once just siezes up, reconfiguring graphics just repeats the same dialog over and over again)
[23:51:26] <andypugh> Prior to this I was having trouble saving a file.
[23:51:53] <andypugh> And then everybody on the mailing list jumped to the same conclusion as me that it was a dead SSD
[23:53:03] <DaViruz> are ssd malfunctions common? i don't think i've ever heard of one outside of really cheap crappy ones
[23:54:22] <andypugh> I wonder if it is worth trying sudo Xorg -configure?
[23:54:40] <andypugh> That will probably break the touchscreen driver, I think.
[23:55:01] <DaViruz> it won't replace your current configuration
[23:55:16] <DaViruz> it'll make a new file under /root/.whateveritscalledtoday
[23:58:04] <DaViruz> but then touchscreen drivers are usually patchy as hell so i guess there can be no guarantees..