#emc | Logs for 2011-10-04

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[00:05:25] <A2Sheds> http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0009-5001443/manufacturing/cnc-milling-machine-fanuc-control-operating-system-6m-table-size-610mm
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[00:05:46] <A2Sheds> $239 AUD !!
[00:07:02] <Danimal_garage> nice!
[00:07:04] <Danimal_garage> bid!
[00:07:06] <A2Sheds> http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0007-5001443/manufacturing/cnc-turning-lathe-hardinge-superslant-model-sb2t-500mm-between-centre-wit
[00:07:51] <Danimal_garage> nice!
[00:07:54] <Danimal_garage> bid again!
[00:08:14] <Danimal_garage> i think someone on here has a superslant
[00:08:24] <Danimal_garage> running on emc2
[00:08:29] <JT-Shop> robh does
[00:08:34] <Danimal_garage> yea
[00:08:36] <JT-Shop> yep
[00:08:55] <Danimal_garage> i have a Hardinge HNC, and JT-Shop has a CHNC, great machines
[00:09:12] <Danimal_garage> great emc2 candidates as well
[00:09:48] <Danimal_garage> and i think robh's machine files are one of the sample files in emc2
[00:09:54] <A2Sheds> I need to check those bids in ~26 hrs
[00:09:58] <Danimal_garage> so the toolchanger work has been done for you
[00:10:09] <Danimal_garage> other than wiring
[00:10:51] <Danimal_garage> but that's not too bad
[00:12:10] <A2Sheds> http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0001-7000896/engineering-and-toolmaking/cnc-machine-mitsui-vrsa-fanuc-6m-controller-fitted-with-btr
[00:12:48] <Danimal_garage> a bit big
[00:13:20] <Valen> right price though
[00:13:51] <A2Sheds> lower than the US, if they sell for what the current bids are
[00:14:13] <JT-Shop> my CHNC config and wiring diagrams are on my web site
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[00:19:52] <A2Sheds> http://www.graysonline.com/sale/7000888/engineering-and-toolmaking/alloy-engineering-workshop-equipment?spr=true the whole shop
[00:20:26] * JT-Shop retires to the cocina to start some chow
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[00:55:50] <Danimal_garage> i thought that said cocaine
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[01:02:18] <Tom_itx> does emc remember the G54 etc and tool offsets?
[01:05:14] <Danimal_garage> remember it between restarts?
[01:05:38] <Danimal_garage> yes
[01:06:31] <Danimal_garage> work offsets are saved to the var file, and tool offsets are saved to the tool.tbl
[01:07:27] <Danimal_garage> that's one of 3 things i know about emc
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[01:16:10] <Danimal_garage> yawn
[01:21:55] <Tom_itx> where _do_ you set up the z tool offsets?
[01:22:20] <Tom_itx> it doesn't assume the first tool is the z offset for G54 does it?
[01:22:20] <Danimal_garage> in the tool table
[01:22:28] <Tom_itx> my current control does that
[01:22:59] <Tom_itx> oh there it is
[01:23:04] <Danimal_garage> you can select your work offset then the tool offset and touch off the tool length using that work offset
[01:23:20] <Tom_itx> what the heck are all the axis for in the tool table?
[01:23:43] <Tom_itx> i presume tool and poc are normally the same
[01:24:08] <Danimal_garage> i dont use that stuff, you'll have to ask someone else. i just use tool length offsets and work offsets
[01:24:13] <Danimal_garage> yes
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[01:24:31] <Danimal_garage> unless you don't have the tool in the same numbered pocket
[01:24:37] <Danimal_garage> poc is pocket
[01:24:50] <Tom_itx> well i did say 'normally'
[01:25:07] <Danimal_garage> and i was giving you the answer
[01:25:10] <Danimal_garage> :)
[01:25:37] <Tom_itx> and you did a right fine job
[01:25:45] <andypugh> Tom_itx: The tool table allows offsets in all directions. Partly to suit lathes, partly for multi-spindle machines.
[01:25:48] <Danimal_garage> it wouldnt be normal if your toolchanger doesnt have to put the tool back in the same pocket to remember where it is
[01:26:02] <Tom_itx> ok lemme ask you this
[01:26:22] <Danimal_garage> andypugh is better at splaining sheet than i am
[01:26:24] <Tom_itx> if you have values in G54 will the program use them by default or do you need to specify G54 in your gcode?
[01:26:33] <Tom_itx> another thing my current control does by default\
[01:26:50] <Danimal_garage> i *think* it does it by default
[01:26:55] <Tom_itx> ie if it's non zero does emc use G54 by default?
[01:27:01] <andypugh> You can set it up so that EMC2 remembers which pocket tools are in, as some toolchangers always put the old tool in the pocket the new tool came out of.
[01:27:03] <Danimal_garage> im probably wrong though, might go off of machine zero
[01:27:13] <Tom_itx> i know it doesn't if it's zero
[01:27:18] <Tom_itx> i found that out last night
[01:27:36] <andypugh> You will always be in the same coordinate system as last time you used the machine
[01:27:44] <Tom_itx> ok
[01:27:54] <Danimal_garage> even if you restart the machine?
[01:28:00] <Danimal_garage> no
[01:28:12] <andypugh> And you can't select G53 (machine coordinates)
[01:28:13] <Tom_itx> i just wondered if i needed to add G54 to my post on the cad cam
[01:28:31] <andypugh> It's not a bad idea to add G54, but I never bother,
[01:28:38] <Tom_itx> me either
[01:28:56] <Danimal_garage> my mastercam post generally does a g53 at the end of the program
[01:29:09] <Danimal_garage> clears the offsets
[01:29:12] <andypugh> If you used G55 the previous time you might get a surprise
[01:29:17] <Danimal_garage> right
[01:29:19] <Tom_itx> right
[01:29:23] <Tom_itx> mine start out as:
[01:29:34] <Tom_itx> N1 T1 M06 ( .0312 END MILL )
[01:29:36] <Tom_itx> N2 G17 G00 G90 X-0.689 Y-0.0491 S10016 M03
[01:29:36] <Tom_itx> N3 G43 Z0.1 H1
[01:29:39] <Danimal_garage> i ALWAYS add a work offset since i use every work offset in the machine
[01:29:42] <andypugh> G53 doesn't clear offsets. It's a temporary (one line only) directive to use machine coords
[01:29:47] <Tom_itx> and that's basically all the setup it requires
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[01:30:19] <Danimal_garage> ah well whatever it is that clears offsets, thats what mastercam does
[01:30:22] <Tom_itx> i forgot what G43 was..
[01:30:29] <Danimal_garage> tool offset
[01:30:37] <Danimal_garage> g43h#
[01:30:43] <Tom_itx> yeah
[01:30:54] <andypugh> You can leave out the H and uses the current tool
[01:31:04] <andypugh> G43 H0 clears tool offsets
[01:31:09] <andypugh> (I think)
[01:31:28] <Tom_itx> i'll try my current post and see how it works
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[01:33:14] <Tom_itx> Danimal_garage do you know what file the tools are stored in?
[01:33:23] <Tom_itx> can i edit it with an editor?
[01:33:57] <Tom_itx> tool.tbl
[01:33:57] <Danimal_garage> tool.tbl
[01:34:06] <Danimal_garage> you can edit it in emc2
[01:34:13] <Tom_itx> i know
[01:34:24] <Tom_itx> but i think you can edit it with a txt editor too
[01:34:31] <Danimal_garage> you can edit it in gedit too
[01:34:38] <Danimal_garage> but no point
[01:34:41] <Tom_itx> yup
[01:34:52] <Tom_itx> there is if i wanna import a tool file
[01:35:46] <Danimal_garage> i guess
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[01:41:04] <Tom_itx> where is the z tool offset referenced from>
[01:41:05] <Tom_itx> ?
[01:41:19] <Tom_itx> same point as the G54 z offset?
[01:42:09] <Danimal_garage> if you're in g54
[01:42:19] <Danimal_garage> if you're in g57, it's in g57
[01:42:32] <Danimal_garage> or g59.3 if you're in g59.3
[01:42:34] <Danimal_garage> etc
[01:42:55] <Tom_itx> so once you enter the offset you can change fixture offsets and still be good
[01:43:20] <Danimal_garage> enter what offset?
[01:43:27] <Tom_itx> tool
[01:43:37] <Danimal_garage> yea
[01:44:09] <Tom_itx> once i run a program it'll all clear up but i'm not at the point i can yet
[01:44:17] <Danimal_garage> you can touch off work offsets with any tool as long as you're using the associated tool offset for the tool
[01:44:19] <Tom_itx> so i'm just doing what i can
[01:44:57] <Danimal_garage> yea, it'll make more sense when you can run it
[01:45:11] <Danimal_garage> it's pretty straight forward though
[01:45:15] <Tom_itx> i figured
[01:45:16] <Danimal_garage> once you get into it
[01:45:38] <Danimal_garage> you'll figure it out quick
[01:46:08] <Danimal_garage> when is your machine ready to run?
[01:46:12] <Tom_itx> i know, i'm just sittin here with not much i can do right now
[01:46:32] <Tom_itx> i've had emc on it already but can't leave it hooked up yet
[01:46:45] <Tom_itx> been testing bits and pieces slowly
[01:46:56] <Tom_itx> got the limits done last night
[01:46:58] <Danimal_garage> whats on it now?
[01:47:06] <Tom_itx> the original control
[01:47:25] <Tom_itx> i wanna be able to swap it out and go once i commit
[01:47:29] <Danimal_garage> why cant you leave it hooked up?
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[01:47:54] <Tom_itx> oh i suppose i could but it's easier to bench test it right now
[01:48:00] <Danimal_garage> dont have everything to run it?
[01:48:04] <Danimal_garage> ah
[01:48:25] <Tom_itx> i plan to swap out the driver eventually for geckos
[01:48:35] <Tom_itx> but it works for now
[01:48:58] <Tom_itx> the end was to have this all set up for a larger machine
[01:49:05] <Tom_itx> so that's partially why all the testing
[01:49:10] <Tom_itx> pendant etc
[01:49:34] <Danimal_garage> stepper?
[01:49:40] <Tom_itx> ya
[01:49:53] <Valen> go servo Tom_itx you know you want to
[01:50:11] <Danimal_garage> i didnt like the gecko drives
[01:50:12] <Tom_itx> my brain says yeah but the pocket says no
[01:50:23] <Tom_itx> dan, why?
[01:50:31] <Tom_itx> 302v?
[01:50:33] <Danimal_garage> no microstepping selections
[01:50:59] <Danimal_garage> i had the crappy leadshine chinese ones, and they were way better than the gecko i had
[01:51:07] <Danimal_garage> and cheaper
[01:51:23] <Tom_itx> someone suggested the chinese digital one
[01:51:28] <Danimal_garage> the gecko was basically useless for me sincei couldnt change the microstepping
[01:51:52] <Danimal_garage> i had very large steppers, it didn't like that much microstepping
[01:52:16] <Danimal_garage> plus i had to make a heat sink for it
[01:52:32] <Danimal_garage> the leadshines already had one
[01:53:22] <Danimal_garage> the only problem i had with the leadshines was the heat sink grease was a little light on one drive so it overheated occasionally and faulted. easy fix though, just apply more
[01:54:03] <Danimal_garage> i was running 9.2A motors on 7.8?A drives too
[01:56:22] <Danimal_garage> the leadshine drives had switches to dial in the microstepping.
[02:01:06] <Valen> i'm also not too keen on the gecko microstepping
[02:01:30] <Valen> made a little thing to do a time lapse camera drag it along type thing
[02:01:37] <Valen> made ticking noises i didn't like
[02:03:02] <Danimal_garage> i couldnt get mine tuned right
[02:03:18] <Danimal_garage> i had to slow the velocity down a bit so it wouldnt miss steps
[02:03:37] <Danimal_garage> it had some stupid pot on there for tuning
[02:03:49] <Danimal_garage> didnt have or need that on the leadshinedrives
[02:03:50] <Tom_itx> well i doubt my current drivers even have microstepping
[02:03:50] <Valen> only made it better at one speed?
[02:04:20] <Danimal_garage> Valen: i dont know, i got pissed off and got servos
[02:04:27] <Tom_itx> heh
[02:04:49] <Danimal_garage> Tom_itx: get the leadshines, IMHO, cheaper and more user friendly
[02:05:07] <Tom_itx> i'll consider that when it's time
[02:05:18] <Tom_itx> what v do they run at?
[02:05:28] <Danimal_garage> i use my machine every day if that counts
[02:05:35] <Danimal_garage> for production
[02:05:39] <Tom_itx> link?
[02:05:44] <Tom_itx> keelinginc?
[02:05:49] <Danimal_garage> i ran mine at 45v
[02:06:01] <Tom_itx> i think mine will be around that or 50v
[02:06:10] <Danimal_garage> hold on i'll look at the model i have
[02:06:11] <Tom_itx> 48v is what i measure no load
[02:06:24] <Danimal_garage> yea, it'll handle a bit more, maybe 80v?
[02:07:18] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/psu1.jpg
[02:07:25] <Tom_itx> i have one for each axis now
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[02:09:01] <Danimal_garage> they're burried, i cant get to them now
[02:09:13] <Danimal_garage> but they were like $80 each
[02:09:43] <Danimal_garage> i have one giant power supply
[02:09:55] <Danimal_garage> the transformer is like 30-40lbs
[02:11:09] <Tom_itx> i got those surplus
[02:11:18] <Danimal_garage> you might want to look at servos though. i got a set of 3 servos and 4 drives for $300 on ebay.
[02:11:29] <Danimal_garage> 640oz/in
[02:11:49] <Danimal_garage> same price as 3 stepper drives
[02:12:12] <Danimal_garage> just shop around
[02:20:13] <jdhNC> what do you look for to find that?
[02:21:36] <Danimal_garage> i just searched for servos on ebay
[02:22:05] <Danimal_garage> i found a guy selling a set of motors and drives, and i won the auction for like $300
[02:24:33] <jdhNC> I've looked for servos, but don't have enough knowledge to know what is right. Do you care if they are brushless, a/c or d/c, or just power and mounting?
[02:25:24] <Danimal_garage> i didnt care as long as they were the right size, and were compatible with emc
[02:25:50] <Danimal_garage> they need to be able to be controlled with an analog input
[02:26:08] <Danimal_garage> the servos ideally should have encoders
[02:27:01] <Danimal_garage> resolvers can be used, however you need an additional card to convert them to quadrature encoder outputs for emc to count
[02:27:13] <Danimal_garage> so it may cost more
[02:27:41] <jdhNC> got any example urls?
[02:27:43] <Valen> you can use the mesa product chain if you DIY servos ;->
[02:27:53] <Valen> we used scooter motors for ours
[02:27:56] <jdhNC> then you need to know even more
[02:28:33] <Valen> dunno about that
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[02:28:44] <Tom_itx> it's not a cake walk but it's a fun learning process
[02:28:45] <Danimal_garage> no examples, im still busy working. im not the best person to ask anyways, im far from an expert
[02:29:34] <jdhNC> I've got no problem waiting and accumulating parts, but if it isn't a matched pair, I wouldn't trust my judgement.
[02:29:44] <Tom_itx> mind you, if i needed a machine i would have had mine up and running a long time ago
[02:30:56] <Danimal_garage> i think it mostly comes down to brushed vs brushless, current, and feedback to the amps as far as a tach or hal sensors, etc
[02:31:06] <Danimal_garage> and voltage
[02:31:18] <Valen> simple is brushed with encoders
[02:31:24] <Tom_itx> brushless are better right?
[02:31:28] <Tom_itx> but i'm sure they cost more
[02:31:49] <Valen> best part of a servo system is even if they aren't matched provided they have enough power you can tune it individually
[02:32:07] <Valen> i spose they are better
[02:32:28] <Valen> should handle more power in the same package and might be a little smoother if they are well sensored
[02:32:49] <Danimal_garage> i have brushless on one machine, and brushed on 2 others
[02:32:57] <Valen> but the controllers are much much more $
[02:33:10] <Valen> and you need that analog step in it
[02:33:20] <Valen> I like the mesa stuff because its all digital ;->
[02:33:30] <Danimal_garage> yea, they need feedback for the rotor angle
[02:33:39] <Danimal_garage> like hall sensors
[02:34:29] <Valen> some use the encoders for the feedback as well
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[02:35:36] <Danimal_garage> only an encoder with the proper channels for it
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[10:50:34] <piasdom> trying to get jog buttons with glade and buttons are grayed(disabled).
[10:50:57] <piasdom> i tried all type buttons and all do the same. http://pastebin.ca/2086678
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[11:12:42] <bjam67_> join #emc-devel
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[11:28:08] <Tom_itx> piasdom http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/gui/gladevcp.html
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[11:33:45] <piasdom> Tom_itx: Thanks
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[11:34:43] <Tom_itx> i know nothing about glade or i'd offer more
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[11:40:24] <piasdom> Tom_itx: appreciate the help
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[12:42:00] <Mjolinor> quick question. EMC needs 10.04, PCB with Gcode export seems to need 11.04, anyone got a fix?
[12:45:46] <psha[work]> Mjolinor: fix what?
[12:46:08] <Mjolinor> i need to expoprt from PCB to G code so I can use EMC
[12:46:26] <Mjolinor> the version of PCB in the 10.04 ubuntu does not allow gcode export
[12:46:44] <Mjolinor> jsut thought I would ask before I embark on some reading and searching
[12:46:56] <Mjolinor> because I am sure soemone else must have met hte problem
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[12:47:54] <SadMan> i don't think that emc actually requires specific ubuntu version, it just needs rt kernel
[12:48:21] <Mjolinor> hmm, thought I read that it's best to use the 10.04 in the ISO image
[12:48:35] <SadMan> so you should be fine with setting 11.04 in your sources.list and installing that pcb package plus upgrading the dependencies it needs
[12:49:04] <Mjolinor> half tried that, bottled out when it said GTK wasnt compatible
[12:49:20] <Mjolinor> having messed with GTk before and come serisouly unstuck :)
[12:49:55] <Valen> Mjolinor: you want to run pcb2gcode?
[12:50:12] <Mjolinor> do I?
[12:50:15] <Mjolinor> :)
[12:50:32] <Mjolinor> in the export menu of PCB on my 11.04 machine I have a gcode option, on the EMC machine I don't
[12:51:02] <Mjolinor> so maybe its a plugin I dont have but can't find or maybe G code is only included as an option in the newer verion of PCB in 11.04
[12:51:20] <Valen> what is PCB?
[12:51:33] <Mjolinor> is pcb2gcode a stand alone executable?
[12:51:39] <Valen> it is
[12:51:41] <SadMan> some pcb design software
[12:51:46] <Mjolinor> it is a Linux package for making PCBs
[12:51:47] <Valen> what are you trying to actually do?
[12:51:56] <Valen> pcb2gcode converts gerbers into gcode
[12:52:09] <Mjolinor> ok I iwll go and find that then , cheers
[12:52:12] <Valen> there is a PPA for it that gets you a fairly recent version
[12:53:20] <SadMan> Mjolinor: like i said, installing pcb from 11.04 should work, other options are recompiling that package from source and fixing dependencies or using chroot (that'd be a mess)
[12:53:37] <Mjolinor> it wants to update gtk if I do that
[12:53:49] <Mjolinor> and I am wary of updating gtk as it seems to break easily
[12:54:14] <SadMan> i'd try that for you but my emc box is off and i'm not at home ;-)
[12:54:33] <Mjolinor> its not too desperate at the moment as its all a new install so if I trash it I can start again. I jsut wanted to sort it now before I get too much stuff on the machine
[12:55:04] <Mjolinor> I would prefer to get the newer version because the verion in 10.04 will not open my PCBs from 11.04 so I will have to redo them all :(
[12:55:34] <Mjolinor> you persuaded me, can I come back and kick you when the machine trashes?
[12:55:36] <Mjolinor> :)
[12:55:45] <SadMan> sure, no problem ;-)
[12:56:51] <psha[work]> Mjolinor: upgrading gtk may break many things
[12:57:02] <Mjolinor> I know :)
[12:57:06] <psha[work]> but until it tells you that it want to remove emc2 it's pretty safe
[12:57:07] <Mjolinor> thats why I bottled out
[12:57:37] <Mjolinor> doesnt really matter if it breaks everyting apart from emc2 as the machine is dedicated anyway
[12:58:01] <psha[work]> good news for you is that axis is based on Tk, not gtk :)
[12:58:08] <psha[work]> so it can hardly break emc :)
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[12:59:59] * Mjolinor holding his breath
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[13:05:14] <SadMan> still alive or have you suffocated?
[13:05:51] <Mjolinor> its replacing th8igns :)
[13:06:10] <Mjolinor> ok, emc sitll works and PCB has the gcode option :)
[13:06:18] <Mjolinor> jsut needed a bit of encouragmenet
[13:07:06] <SadMan> just check if you don't have some autoupdate on so it doesn't upgrade the rest of the system
[13:07:11] <SadMan> although it usually asks first
[13:07:22] <SadMan> i'd change the sources.list back to 10.04
[13:08:41] <Mjolinor> I wil do that now
[13:09:01] <Mjolinor> seems to be OK, exported hte gcode from PCB and imported to EMC, look sright :)
[13:09:34] <Mjolinor> I did get an error from apt-get on the install but it does seem to work
[13:09:38] <Mjolinor> ls
[13:09:44] <Mjolinor> whoops, wrong keybaord
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[13:10:38] <SadMan> what error?
[13:12:04] <Mjolinor> mesage about a libgdk-pixbuf2.0dev package
[13:12:27] <Mjolinor> emc is now not working :(
[13:12:34] <Mjolinor> the sw is but its not controlling the machine
[13:13:19] <SadMan> anything in dmesg, logs?
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[13:14:31] <Mjolinor> nope
[13:15:14] <Mjolinor> think a rebopot is claled for :)
[13:15:32] <SadMan> won't hurt anything
[13:17:46] <Mjolinor> hmm, no mouse, no keyboard, no nothing :(
[13:19:20] <Mjolinor> :( no boot, time to get het CD out mehtinks
[13:20:37] <psha[work]> heh, that's bad :)
[13:20:42] <psha[work]> no boot at all?
[13:20:53] <psha[work]> or booted to graphics and then complained?
[13:21:05] <Mjolinor> boots to the ubuntu desktop, I have auto login on
[13:21:29] <Mjolinor> gives me a message about unable to load soem applet or other but crashes at that point, no caps lock on the keybaord so its completely crashed
[13:21:43] <psha[work]> Alt-SysRq-K
[13:21:47] <Mjolinor> coffe time mehtinks while I consider things, I htink a new install is going to be order of the day
[13:22:02] <psha[work]> you may try to boot into 'recovery' mode
[13:22:10] <SadMan> upgrading gtk crashes kernel?
[13:22:12] <SadMan> that's a new one
[13:22:17] <psha[work]> since kernel and base system is in place - nothing serious i think
[13:22:24] <psha[work]> SadMan: i bet upgrading xorg...
[13:22:59] <SadMan> he didn't say it was upgrading xorg too ;-)
[13:23:13] <Mjolinor> no
[13:23:16] <Mjolinor> it didnt do that
[13:23:27] <Mjolinor> it didnt update the kernel either as far as I saw anyway
[13:23:37] <Mjolinor> alt sysrq K works
[13:24:50] <Mjolinor> thsi is weird, I can alt sysrq k adn it gives me the login screen but sitll no mouse or keyboard
[13:25:02] <SadMan> usb keyboard?
[13:25:13] <Mjolinor> yup
[13:26:18] <SadMan> can you ssh to it or it's not networked?
[13:26:23] <Mjolinor> same on PS2 kboard
[13:27:04] <Mjolinor> unless the ssh is started byd efault on the emc image it wont be running
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[13:28:43] <Mjolinor> no ports open
[13:33:54] <psha[work]> Mjolinor: Alt-Control-F1
[13:34:11] <SadMan> try rebooting to see whether keyboard doesn't work from the start or it stops after running xorg
[13:34:25] <psha[work]> SadMan: if alt-sysrq-* works then keyboard is ok
[13:34:35] <psha[work]> but it's not detected by xorg
[13:34:38] <SadMan> but he says he can't type in console
[13:34:42] <SadMan> that's weird
[13:34:44] <Mjolinor> ctrl alt F doesnt do anyting
[13:34:48] <SadMan> or i misunderstood him
[13:34:54] <Mjolinor> hte only thing that does is alt sysrq k
[13:35:02] <Mjolinor> I cant get a console
[13:35:24] <SadMan> what do you get after sysrq k?
[13:35:33] <Mjolinor> a login screen
[13:35:38] <Mjolinor> cant get the grub menu up
[13:35:42] <psha[work]> don't know how it's in ubuntu but debian after 3 fast deaths of Xsession falls back to text console
[13:35:48] <Mjolinor> whats the key, I thought it was jsut esc
[13:36:02] <SadMan> caps lock usually works
[13:36:30] <Mjolinor> it is crashing I htink because a press of the power on button shuts it down straight away
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[13:36:38] <Mjolinor> I dont have to hold it to force a shutdown
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[15:18:19] <sarariman_seb> enco code, free shipping on orders over $50 until friday oct 7: GSSR4
[15:21:44] <sarariman_seb> and on a related note: what kind of taps do you guys use for rigid tapping?
[15:25:11] <JT-Shop> electrolube
[15:25:59] <cradek> spiral POINT for thru holes
[15:26:15] <cradek> by far the best way
[15:26:23] <JT-Shop> http://www1.mscdirect.com/eCommerce/NavigationServlet/Threading/Taps/Spiral-Point-Taps/_/N-1z13penZ77h2tZ1yz8adg?refinement=4291787118&searchandizedOk=N
[15:26:36] <JT-Shop> and spiral flute for blind holes
[15:26:38] <cradek> if you must do blind holes, spiral flute.
[15:27:00] <sarariman_seb> great!
[15:27:04] <cradek> (or form.)
[15:27:21] <cradek> for small blind holes, form.
[15:27:39] <JT-Shop> I've not done thread forming yet
[15:29:30] <cradek> I've formed 4-40 threads in Al
[15:29:56] <JT-Shop> do you have to ream the hole to get the size correct?
[15:30:17] <cradek> I didn't, but I used a good quality drill very carefully centered
[15:30:28] <cradek> (this was on the lathe)
[15:32:05] <cradek> sarariman_seb: unless your time and material are both free, buy expensive name-brand taps
[15:32:52] <sarariman_seb> cradek, you like electrolube too?
[15:33:29] <cradek> generally I use rapid-tap for hand tapping, or whatever coolant is in the mill, or whatever cutting oil is in the lathe
[15:33:44] <cradek> I don't think lube matters so much unless the materials are exotic
[15:33:58] <JT-Shop> electrolube is a coating on the tap only by OSG tap and die
[15:34:08] <Mjolinor> ls /boot
[15:34:08] <cradek> tap quality matters much more (and I do pretty much just aluminum)
[15:34:11] <Mjolinor> sorry
[15:34:29] <cradek> oh! had no idea what it was, only knew I didn't use it
[15:35:08] <JT-Shop> it has much less friction than other coatings I've tried
[15:35:24] <cradek> you do mostly titanium?
[15:35:43] <JT-Shop> aluminum and carbon steel mostly
[15:35:44] <archivist> electrolube is a company name over here
[15:36:27] <archivist> they were famous for switch lubrication sprays
[15:38:21] <JT-Shop> just looked up OSG forming taps and a 10-24 has a 0.004" hole range, not as tight as I thought
[15:38:50] <cradek> yeah but 10-24 is huge :-)
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[15:39:16] <cradek> you can do fine with spiral flute for #10
[15:41:04] <JT-Shop> sarariman_seb: I always look at my taps and drills with at least 10x to make sure no edges are chipped...
[15:41:51] <cradek> yes and be sure to throw them out just before they break :-)
[15:42:10] <JT-Shop> 4-40 is 0.003' with #39 recommended
[15:43:25] <JT-Shop> I always toss them if there is any sign of chipping on the cutting edges into the McCoy bucket
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[15:51:07] <skunkworks> I found a spiral 10-32 that works great. cuts like butter.
[15:57:45] <Mjolinor> pcb
[15:58:08] <Mjolinor> ok, I need to stop doing that. I shall hide the kboard
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[16:04:09] <Danimal_garage> the only taps i hate are 6-32
[16:04:37] <JT-Shop> that the only size you use?
[16:04:42] <Danimal_garage> too course for that small of a diameter
[16:04:56] <Danimal_garage> i try to never use a 6-32
[16:05:48] <Danimal_garage> i dont tap often anymore
[16:06:18] <Danimal_garage> i only have one threaded part, and i use a m4x.7 forming tap for that
[16:07:27] <JT-Shop> this next part will be a PIA to make... damm engineers... oh wait I designed it
[16:07:31] <Danimal_garage> otherwise i hand tap for fixtures and whatnot, and i just use leftover oil from the lathe after i switched it over to waterbased coolant
[16:07:44] <Danimal_garage> ha
[16:08:00] <Danimal_garage> yea, i always blame the engineers
[16:09:04] <Danimal_garage> wow, it's cooling off, my anodizing tank is 65 degrees this morning
[16:09:15] <Danimal_garage> usually i need ice to get it under 70
[16:09:15] <cradek> I built something friday that some idiot designed using 2-56 screws
[16:09:20] <JT-Shop> it's nice here too
[16:09:41] <JT-Shop> them are small ones
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[16:10:09] <Danimal_garage> cradek: those tap nice
[16:10:14] <JT-Shop> I have that tap just in case I ever need it again
[16:10:35] <Danimal_garage> i have a ton of tiny taps
[16:10:42] <Danimal_garage> 0-80 is the smallest
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[16:12:33] <Danimal_garage> i used to use them all the time when i worked for this place that made automated inspection equipment
[16:12:58] <cradek> I have a box full of oddball tiny taps. from a gunsmith maybe? most of the pitches are not what you'd expect.
[16:13:25] <grommit> PCW: i have a Granite Devices servo drive whose opto inputs I want to control from my 7i43 (thru 7i42). I only have access to the anode, so cannot do open drain. There is a 220ohm resistor in series with the diode. Any ideas?
[16:13:34] <Danimal_garage> i have a 3/8-28 somewhere
[16:13:41] <Danimal_garage> and a 1/4-60
[16:14:02] <cradek> heh those are pretty odd.
[16:14:32] <Danimal_garage> yea
[16:14:50] <Danimal_garage> i think the 1/4-60 was for an adjusting screw on something we were making
[16:15:36] <cradek> did you ever do differential to make stuff move even slower?
[16:15:51] <JT-Shop> I have a few odd ones for proximity switches
[16:16:58] <archivist> I have a tap wrench with a differential tightening screw
[16:17:32] <archivist> and some itsy bitsy metric taps
[16:19:15] <Danimal_garage> not that i know of, i just got a blueprint and was told to machine the part back then
[16:19:26] <Danimal_garage> i was only 18 or so
[16:23:05] <Danimal_garage> i was only a handle cranker back then....
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[16:30:55] <A2Sheds> grommit: http://www.granitedevices.fi/assets/files/vsd-e_160_manual.pdf page 14?
[16:31:32] <grommit> Yes, I have that schematic. The problem is how do I drive it from the Mesa card?
[16:32:22] <grommit> It will not drive it directly and the input resistor on the Granite is too high to allow a pull up externally.
[16:32:24] <A2Sheds> grommit: is your input figure #8, #9 or #10?
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[16:33:12] <grommit> #10
[16:34:25] <grommit> I have a 7i42 bob on the front of the 7i43. The 7i42 has a 50ohm on it. I may try bypassing that with a piece of wire and it might just work 6.8mA where the Granite specs 6.3mA, but that is a hack (if it even works)....
[16:34:35] <A2Sheds> the series resistor limits the amount of current that goes through the internal led
[16:34:51] <grommit> yep
[16:35:28] <A2Sheds> and you want to drive this opto input from what exactly?
[16:35:42] <grommit> Mesa 7i43/7i42
[16:37:27] <A2Sheds> the 50 ohm series resistors on the 7i42 will be in series with the ~220 ohm resistor on the opto input...
[16:38:00] <grommit> yes, and that is why the mesa won't drive it.
[16:38:37] <A2Sheds> I'm looking at the outputs on the 7i42 right now
[16:40:19] <grommit> The 7i42 will output 3.3, with drop of 1.5 on the Granite diode (of 1.5 according to spec sheet on chip they use) gives 1.8v/270 = 6.7mA
[16:40:41] <grommit> Granite's spec sheet claim 6.3mA
[16:41:46] <pcw_home> No if you use open drain output, you connect the granite anode to 5V so you have plenty of drive
[16:42:33] <pcw_home> more than 10 mA
[16:42:51] <pcw_home> 3.5/270
[16:44:09] <Danimal_garage> cradek: is the ability to run a program while in mdi a glitch?
[16:44:21] <grommit> Care to give me a schematic? I had it connected that way yesterday...?
[16:44:26] <Danimal_garage> or a feature?
[16:44:47] <Jymmm> (undocumented feature) lol
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[16:45:17] <Danimal_garage> ha
[16:46:04] <Danimal_garage> i would assume it's known already
[16:46:08] <Danimal_garage> just curious
[16:46:11] <pcw_home> Does the Granite have a common anode on their OPTOs or common cathode?
[16:46:54] <grommit> I have access to the anode only, cathode is tied to 5V power supply ground
[16:47:20] <pcw_home> Yuck
[16:47:34] <A2Sheds> heh
[16:47:37] <grommit> Page 13 of the link A2Sheds posted above
[16:47:50] <grommit> Yeah, now you are with me! Yuck!
[16:48:36] <pcw_home> so nearly every parallel port chip etc known to man sinks better than sources and they get it backwards
[16:48:47] <A2Sheds> the equivalent schematics is common cathode with 220 ohm series resistor on the anode
[16:49:03] <grommit> If I bypass the 50ohm on the 7i42 I might (barely) have enough current to drive it....
[16:49:21] <Danimal_garage> can you do opendrain on a parellel port?
[16:49:32] <Danimal_garage> never used one....
[16:49:39] <pcw_home> Sounds pretty marginal
[16:49:46] <grommit> I know
[16:49:53] <grommit> But what else can I do?
[16:49:58] <pcw_home> is this an enable or step.dir (seems like a lot of current)
[16:50:23] <grommit> It is a disable/clear fault signal to the Granite.
[16:50:53] <grommit> Actually it is gpio, but assigned to disable/clear fault
[16:51:20] <pcw_home> 6.3 MA minimum?
[16:51:26] <grommit> yes
[16:51:50] <pcw_home> stupid
[16:53:26] <grommit> By the way, this got us looking at the bus switch chip on the 7i43. Does it just clamp off 12 (or 24) of the pins if any one of them goes above the threshold?
[16:53:55] <pcw_home> probablyl need a PNP transistor or a buffered daughter card
[16:54:05] <grommit> Ugh.
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[16:54:52] <pcw_home> If you power the enable directly from 5V does it work? (just to make sure you dont have other troubles)
[16:55:04] <grommit> Yes
[16:57:37] <A2Sheds> use a cheap SSR
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[16:59:25] <grommit> There's a thought....
[16:59:47] <A2Sheds> I forget the ones we use, cheap fast a few pins
[16:59:52] <pcw_home> Yes the bus switch turns off with inputs higher than 3.x volts to protect the FPGA.
[16:59:54] <pcw_home> It also allows 5V output swings if you have extenal pullups to 5V
[16:59:56] <pcw_home> Do the Step/dir signals also have the same specs?
[17:00:32] <grommit> It has a different circuit, but I think the same specs. i think that is working fine....
[17:01:13] <pcw_home> do you have any 5V signals going into the 7I42?
[17:01:16] <grommit> Figure 8 on page 14 of the Granite link. It isn't much different
[17:01:27] <grommit> But it is working.
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[17:02:17] <grommit> Yes, I (will) have a torch height control board feeding some inputs/outputs on the same 7i42
[17:02:29] <A2Sheds> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=cla274
[17:02:50] <A2Sheds> http://www.clare.com/home/pdfs.nsf/0/7B8386C9F64F3F47852572810042EE06/$file/CPC1218.pdf
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[17:05:45] <pcw_home> IF you only have 18% or so of margin (50/270) I would not trust it working very long
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[17:08:22] <IchGuckLive> Good evening all from Germany
[17:08:48] <grommit> Bummer
[17:09:05] <A2Sheds> I'm just not surprised anymore by some of the bassackward interfaces I come across in machine controls
[17:12:37] <grommit> If I build some kind of buffer it needs to be fast enough to handle the step/dir was well...
[17:13:22] <IchGuckLive> step dir the TB6560 will do your job perfect
[17:16:40] <A2Sheds> grommit: how fast?
[17:17:13] <grommit> Not sure....
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[17:17:29] <pcw_home> Looks like step/dir can be run in sinking mode so its OK the way it is (connect HSIN+ to 5V, and HSIN- to step/dir run in open drain mode)
[17:17:31] <Jymmm> speed of light in a vacuum =)
[17:18:36] <pcw_home> but the active high enable really wants a inverter (ether a PNP transistor or a chip)
[17:18:40] <grommit> Ah, yes, I forgot I do actually have the other pins on those two
[17:20:39] <grommit> Does stepgen.NN have an open drain parameter (not sure if parameter is the right emc-speak)...
[17:21:50] <pcw_home> the per pin mode stuff is all GPIO assosciated
[17:22:42] <pcw_home> so if the stepgen output is on GPIO NN you set GPIONN mode to open drain
[17:22:53] <A2Sheds> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Display-Module-4-Axis-Stepper-Driver-TB6560-/270812987867?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0db641db inexpensive 4 line LED readout
[17:22:54] <grommit> ok
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[17:24:16] <grommit> Would there have been a better choice than 7i43/7i42 to do this? 5i20, etc?
[17:25:06] <IchGuckLive> A2Sheds: i run this boards for 2 years now up to 5 axis no problems
[17:25:33] <IchGuckLive> A2Sheds: i use the 2,5A version
[17:25:43] <A2Sheds> IchGuckLive: I like the low cost LED board
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[17:25:52] <IchGuckLive> agree
[17:26:06] <IchGuckLive> but emc has also the numbers in DRO mode
[17:26:28] <A2Sheds> reprap has used these as well
[17:26:58] <IchGuckLive> with the epson porer Steppers from mineba LM23 high tourge for 11Euros the system is perfect
[17:27:30] <A2Sheds> sometimes you want a LED position display out in front, not just from the LCD
[17:27:42] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: And how do you know this? Surely you didn't actually build or became involved in reprap!!! ;)
[17:29:14] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: is the price going down now they anounce the 10.000 part for this year
[17:29:27] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: of what?
[17:29:41] <IchGuckLive> reprap buildiing kit
[17:29:47] <Loetmichel> re @ home...
[17:29:47] <A2Sheds> Jymmm: I help them out at times.
[17:30:01] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: FIIK, Never touched the thing
[17:30:18] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: And you feel no shame at all?!?!?!?!?!
[17:31:16] <IchGuckLive> the comercel printer 3D will now going under 200 Dollars as wel epson anounced l
[17:32:04] <A2Sheds> Jymmm: heh, it's similar to raising kids...... you do what you can, the rest is up to them :)
[17:33:02] <A2Sheds> IchGuckLive: have a link?
[17:33:18] <A2Sheds> I haven't seen anything by Epson
[17:34:29] <A2Sheds> a bad as reprap might be, makerbot basically did a similar design and somehow got a venture firm to give them $10M US
[17:34:43] <grommit> Search for Objet260 Connex
[17:35:51] <grommit> I don't think it is $200, however...
[17:36:53] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: Threre's alwasy adoption, military/boarding school, etc
[17:38:17] <IchGuckLive> best at the moment is 3D printining online for 5Dollars per qcm
[17:38:44] <IchGuckLive> like zcorp they charge 10 but in full color
[17:39:03] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: Does that include the air space inbetween?
[17:39:57] <IchGuckLive> yes the room that the part messers in the printer
[17:40:07] <IchGuckLive> http://www.zcorp.com/de/Products/3D-Printers/ZPrinter-450/spage.aspx
[17:40:32] <A2Sheds> zcorp uses HP cartridges, I have a better design that prints 0.5L/hr per cartridge
[17:40:49] <Loetmichel> A2Sheds: really?
[17:40:50] <A2Sheds> they mostly use HP45
[17:40:59] <Loetmichel> normal HP print cartridges?
[17:41:17] <Loetmichel> with ink as pricey as gold?
[17:41:18] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: to colorise the powder
[17:41:36] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: i know zcorp
[17:41:37] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I'm sure they refill them
[17:41:37] <A2Sheds> we have a new cartridge that is 2x the speed of HP
[17:41:42] <Loetmichel> and to fuse thje powder
[17:41:55] <Loetmichel> but the price of the cartridges... BRRRRRRRR
[17:42:21] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Compared to making the jets yourself?
[17:42:37] <A2Sheds> HP won't let anyone fill virgin cartridges, they only have 3-4 filling partners in the world
[17:43:03] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: You buy refill kits with reset chips from ebay =)
[17:43:10] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: I would use some epson Print heads and use external tanks
[17:43:36] <Loetmichel> rather tan the HP bubblejets
[17:43:48] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: *shrug*, I probably would too. but I don't like/use inkjet printers of any kind.
[17:44:03] <Loetmichel> and for non-coloured objects you can use simple demineralized water then
[17:44:15] <A2Sheds> HP #45 cartridges don't need to be reset
[17:44:24] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: ah
[17:44:49] <A2Sheds> I'm currently developing several inks and fluids for inkjet
[17:44:53] <Loetmichel> A2Sheds: hp# 45? sounds like the type in my old designjet 650C?
[17:45:13] <A2Sheds> yeah, might be, it's pretty big
[17:45:38] <A2Sheds> roughly 2.5" x 2"
[17:46:00] <Jymmm> THAT HUGE!! (kidding)
[17:46:47] <IchGuckLive> i got a old C84 from epson and mayd a ink system on it for 1L cartrige
[17:46:47] <A2Sheds> http://image.ec21.com/image/jammezeng/simg_GC04217928_CA04256881/HP_45_51645A_Black_Inkjet%252FInk_Cartridge.jpg
[17:47:45] <A2Sheds> epson heads are piezo
[17:47:58] <IchGuckLive> it runs always till the epson limit of 24.000pages then i got to reset the printer totaly
[17:48:24] <A2Sheds> they handle fluids with viscosity just above what TIJ handles
[17:48:25] <IchGuckLive> is Hp different technology
[17:48:36] <A2Sheds> HP is TIJ thermal inkjet
[17:48:53] <IchGuckLive> i never had an HP
[17:49:22] <IchGuckLive> my naibour US Army had one and it printet more test pages then others
[17:49:30] <A2Sheds> the most important thing is filtering any fluids you jet, 0.5 micron, 1 micron max
[17:49:38] <Loetmichel> A2Sheds: yeah, looks like theone sin my designjet
[17:50:04] <A2Sheds> you can flush and refill HP #45
[17:50:09] <Loetmichel> ... they are about 45Eur per cartridge/colour... with about 60ml ink in it
[17:50:49] <IchGuckLive> i use pelikan ink epson filterd for 6.5euros per liter
[17:51:22] <IchGuckLive> never had trouble with that and im printing realy many pages
[17:52:15] <A2Sheds> we might have a wide format TIJ (60") printer powered by EMC next year
[17:52:46] <IchGuckLive> Heekscad has a Reprap postprocessor includet for emc printing
[17:52:53] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: the point is: why use Bubblejet cartridges which will live only long enough for maybe 5 Workpieces, not longlive piezo heads like from epson and external ink tanks?
[17:53:32] <A2Sheds> the problem with piezo is price and if you clog a nozzle you're out $500-5K
[17:53:54] <Loetmichel> A2Sheds: hmmm
[17:54:38] <IchGuckLive> A2Sheds: agree the head on the cardrige is better for use with powder
[17:54:39] <A2Sheds> TIJ cartridiges are good for 2 liters minimum depending on whats in the fluid
[17:54:39] <Loetmichel> just buy a decent epson printer and dismantle it: about 100-300 Eur and much spare parts for the 3dprinter ;-)
[17:55:30] <A2Sheds> there is a company that converts the 13" epsons into flatbeds, IIRC they sell for ~$13K
[17:56:33] <IchGuckLive> graduation from high school Whats that called in engl.
[17:56:41] <A2Sheds> bbl, I can fill you in more about inkjet
[17:56:47] <IchGuckLive> Germany Abitur.
[17:57:32] <IchGuckLive> is there a diploma in the usa Also
[17:58:34] <Loetmichel> A2Sheds: my company buys hp lasers, epson impact dot matrix printers and injetzs and dismantles them and rebuild them as Military Rugged/Tempest systems
[17:59:27] <Loetmichel> so i know the margin between by and sell ;-)
[17:59:46] <Loetmichel> s/my company/the company i work for
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[18:00:31] <IchGuckLive> by i got to leave !
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[18:01:02] <archivist> funny how eu companies take japanese stuff and badge resell with improvements
[18:01:13] <archivist> we used canon printers
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[18:16:21] <JT-Shop> we have a cannon printer but it only prints the letter O...
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[18:16:55] <Danimal_garage> lol
[18:17:04] <Danimal_garage> maybe it's binary
[18:17:41] <JT-Shop> could be just off and on yea
[18:21:32] <Loetmichel> archivist: no, we label it with our Company logo, but so that the original manufacturer still is visible
[18:22:02] <Loetmichel> we just upgrade the Systems to Tempest and/or ruggedize them.
[18:22:05] <Loetmichel> (sp?)
[18:23:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.cordsen.com/index.php/tempest/level-b/printer-color <- looks original from the outside ;-)
[18:23:45] <Loetmichel> (but not from the inside ;-)
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[18:26:01] <Loetmichel> ok, the rugged dotmatrix isnt really recognizable as a epson -> http://www.cordsen.com/index.php/rugged/printer/59-rugged/bw-printer-rugged/147 ;-)
[18:27:24] <Loetmichel> noting left of the LQ300 than the PCBs and the central Print chassis ;)
[18:27:52] <Loetmichel> no case parts ot rollers, not even the PSU ;-)
[18:28:02] <Loetmichel> s/ot/or
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[18:46:09] <Danimal_garage> one wheel bearing down, one to go
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[19:07:11] <JT-Shop> crap, I need to clean out the coolant tank on the CHNC :/
[19:07:26] <JT-Shop> I'm thinking a small wet/dry vac would be nice for that
[19:07:43] <A2Sheds> Loetmichel: interesting, we develop lots of products, fluids, inks, polymer emulsions for inkjet and 3dp as well as the printers and depositions tech
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[19:08:16] <Loetmichel> ah, nice
[19:08:48] <A2Sheds> Loetmichel: which inkjets do you ruggedize?
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[19:09:06] <A2Sheds> just epson?
[19:09:16] <Danimal_garage> bilige pump and a hose into the sink lol
[19:10:24] <Loetmichel> dont ask me, some HP industrial chassis (35xx) and 2 different consumer epsons, but this ones i had only for repair in the last 3 years so i dont know them well
[19:10:57] <Loetmichel> if it is interesting i can look in the documentation in the company tomorrow
[19:11:09] <A2Sheds> just curious
[19:11:32] <Loetmichel> mostly we sell hap laserjets
[19:11:36] <Loetmichel> HP
[19:12:36] <Loetmichel> and some of the rugged epson dot matrix for vehicle mount, 'cause the dont get angry if gforces, humidity AND temperature way off
[19:13:16] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: You may not always drink Dos Equis, but you seem to me like you have one of the most interesting jobs in the world.
[19:13:38] <Loetmichel> we had one of this even in the deep freezer (-18c) and then misted with water... prints like a charm...
[19:13:46] <Loetmichel> try that with a laser ;-)
[19:15:51] <A2Sheds> inkjets are a miracle if they print at all, they have a very narrow range of temp, viscosity, surface tension, particle size
[19:17:03] <A2Sheds> on top of that all the head manufacturers are very closed about specs and who they work with, it sort of like working with the mob
[19:17:53] <A2Sheds> warranty only approved inks, and you have to jump through all kinds of hoops and expense to get an ink approved
[19:18:31] <Loetmichel> A2Sheds: yeah, thats like i imageine it would be...
[19:18:39] * Loetmichel pities you ;-)
[19:18:45] <A2Sheds> they even patent the waveforms used to fire the jets
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[19:20:51] <Loetmichel> A2Sheds: the best ink printer i have seen so far marks cables in a cable factory: just one fine steel nozzle with a rotating vanve behind, a high pressure ink pump, and 2 sets of Electrostatic plates.
[19:21:00] <Loetmichel> (about 2kV IIRC)
[19:21:24] <A2Sheds> CIJ, continuous inkjet
[19:21:54] <Loetmichel> the valve induces a steady stream of little dropps, moved one by one by the electrostatic forces of the plates...
[19:22:25] <A2Sheds> Hitachi is #1 in CIJ
[19:22:36] <Loetmichel> and so it prints on the (running with about 10m/s) cable by "bending" the drop stream over the cable ;-)
[19:22:48] <Loetmichel> and it uses any ink and even laqer ;-)
[19:23:11] <Loetmichel> was fascinating to look at ;-)
[19:23:37] <A2Sheds> I'm actually working on TIJ inks that do the same thing now
[19:25:42] <A2Sheds> the ink sticks to glass, PET, PVC etc, doesn't scratch or rub off with your fingernail
[19:25:43] <Loetmichel> the operator told me the had filled the printer even with some (thinner based)car paint once, but that was risky 'cause the occasional arc across the plates ;-)
[19:26:18] <A2Sheds> heh, the limitation of CIJ is low res and narrow print swath
[19:27:15] <Loetmichel> <- translating swath
[19:27:26] <A2Sheds> print width
[19:27:26] <Loetmichel> ah, i see
[19:27:58] <Loetmichel> yes, swath there was about 1" max
[19:28:20] <Loetmichel> and resolution was low, maybe 90 pixels/"
[19:28:29] <Loetmichel> but speed was incredible
[19:28:36] <A2Sheds> http://www.hitachi-ds.com/hitachi-ds/en/Products/Coding-and-Marking/RX-Series/RX-SD160W.html
[19:28:49] <Loetmichel> i mean: the cable was runnung wit about ten meters a second across the printer!
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[19:29:20] <Loetmichel> hmm, this system was stone old
[19:29:51] <Loetmichel> open High voltage plates, a nozzle with high pressure line made out of car brake hose and so on
[19:29:53] <A2Sheds> yes, they have been around for quite some time
[19:29:56] <PCW> Some of that technology is quite old (AB-Dick videojet)
[19:30:12] <Loetmichel> and a full 19" 42he rack of electronics
[19:30:16] <PCW> 70s at least
[19:31:45] <A2Sheds> http://www.dimatix.com/divisions/materials-deposition-division/materials-printer-dmp-5000.asp I'm actually building a system similar to this right now using EMC
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[19:31:51] <Loetmichel> putting your hand near one ofe the plates was both exiting (cause the static field) and frightening... if you caught hte first arc.
[19:32:21] <Loetmichel> there was a stunning (pun intended) much of power in the plates! ;-)
[19:33:04] <PCW> Wonder if they used tubes for the HV deflection
[19:33:21] <Loetmichel> i think so because the rack was so big
[19:33:52] <Loetmichel> looked not like much computing power in there ;-)
[19:34:07] <Danimal_garage> 2 wheel bearings down.
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[19:34:35] <PCW> Friend of mine used to work on ION implanters and they had +-15 KV deflection amps (6BK4 color TV shunt regulator tubes as final output)
[19:35:21] <PCW> basically +-15KV op amps
[19:36:14] <A2Sheds> I've had burn marks on both sides of my hand from where the arc passed through
[19:36:49] <PCW> Ouch
[19:37:02] <A2Sheds> it's not the recommended way of finding the crack in the anodes insulation :)
[19:37:31] <Danimal_garage> lol
[19:38:22] <Danimal_garage> worst shock i've ever gotten was from my boat motor.
[19:38:31] <archivist> 16khz 9kv burn is interesting does not hurt too much but takes a week to get around to bleeding :)
[19:38:39] <A2Sheds> the smell of ozone and something burning
[19:38:40] <Danimal_garage> not sure the voltage from the coils, but i'm guessing in the 10's of thousands
[19:38:58] <Danimal_garage> i know my car is about 45k volts
[19:39:22] <archivist> drills a hole and cauterizes at the same time
[19:39:43] <Danimal_garage> nice
[19:40:29] <A2Sheds> Sony trinitrons used run up to around 40KV at 15,750hz
[19:40:57] <archivist> be careful putting hand in the line output stage of a valve colour tv
[19:41:27] <archivist> top cap in a tv is usually 25kv
[19:41:36] <archivist> never seen 40
[19:42:28] <Loetmichel> hmmm, iirc there is a "sound barrier at about 28kV where the electron beam would become a powerful xray-generator...
[19:42:50] <A2Sheds> one time I was carrying the bad tubes out to the dumpster and forgot to fully discharge one (alligator clip from anode to tube ground) for 30 sec
[19:42:50] <Loetmichel> so more then that in any TV would not considered "healthy"
[19:42:55] <Danimal_garage> i'm so glad tubed tv's are practically non existent at this point.
[19:43:17] <Loetmichel> Danimal_garage: i have 2 with 80cm over here
[19:43:40] <Loetmichel> one dead on the balcony, one runing in the living room
[19:43:47] <Danimal_garage> i have 2 that i can't give away, and they're really too heavy to carry
[19:43:56] <archivist> yup there were xray warnings on the line output stage in the old days
[19:44:11] <Loetmichel> ... the 46" plasma is sitting on the Bedroom wall ;-)
[19:44:25] <A2Sheds> that's why Sony's were so heavy, the extra lead shield to run them over 30KV
[19:45:07] <archivist> are you sure they were over 30kv
[19:45:41] <A2Sheds> Sony only, zenith, RCA etc were all lower
[19:45:42] <cradek> I thought (in the US at least) 30ish kV was the legal max, to avoid the x-ray problem
[19:45:44] <archivist> they needed strong glass due also to the flat vertical
[19:46:07] <cradek> I thought it was the support frame to handle the wire tension that made them so heavy.
[19:46:19] <A2Sheds> all the above
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[19:46:55] <andypugh> visa question: "Have you committed, ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in extrajudicial killings, political killings, or other acts of violence?" Hmmm, let me think on that one...
[19:47:11] <andypugh> "have you ever committed genocide"
[19:47:17] <cradek> I used to eat hamburger...
[19:47:37] <Loetmichel> even a "normal" 55cm tube tv has a 1/2" thick lead glass on the front to avoid (soft) xray
[19:48:05] <Loetmichel> @40kv ther will be much hard xray... HOW thick is the front glass of a trinitron?
[19:48:54] <Loetmichel> andypugh: hmmm... looks like an american visa?
[19:49:08] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop any word on the scope yet?
[19:49:09] <archivist> I cannot believe that voltage as I would have been told when I was a TV engineer
[19:49:24] <JT-Shop> UPS says Thursday
[19:49:26] <andypugh> Yes, an american visa.
[19:49:48] <andypugh> "Have you ever been arrested" is likely to be a problem.
[19:50:09] <Loetmichel> archivist: btw: in my "old" days where i used to fix tube tvs i could count on at least 2-3 arcs to the finger from various open TVs
[19:50:12] <A2Sheds> one of my first jobs was working on the video game CRT chassis, they used trinitrons
[19:50:20] <JT-Shop> then you would have to tell the story of the 1/2 a ton of garbage
[19:50:26] <Loetmichel> not too hurtful, just enough to shake you awake
[19:50:38] <Loetmichel> (and leave little holes in fingers ;-)
[19:50:39] <A2Sheds> this back in the Space Invaders, Pacman days
[19:50:53] <jdhNC> at the restaraunt
[19:51:48] <A2Sheds> do they fingerprint on entry to the EU from the US?
[19:52:11] <Loetmichel> A2Sheds: i dont think so
[19:52:20] <mrsunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeJVfOFnrsY&feature=feedrec_grec_index omg, talk about having to much time on your hands :P
[19:52:24] <awallin_> only the us is crazy enough to fingerprint.. afaik :)
[19:52:28] <Loetmichel> the americans are the only oness paranoid eough for that ;-)
[19:52:54] <Tom_itx> you've just not pissed anybody off enough to knock down a couple buildings
[19:53:03] <A2Sheds> Japan started a couple of years ago
[19:53:30] <A2Sheds> might just be for US into japan as payback
[19:55:17] <Loetmichel> A2Sheds: jes, we did, but the german terrorist were to stupid. they got caught buying tons of H2o2 and acetone ;-)
[19:55:47] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, did you get a clear lense for it?
[19:55:51] <Tom_itx> lens
[19:55:55] <JT-Shop> yea
[19:56:04] <JT-Shop> just made sense to get one
[19:56:09] <Tom_itx> yup
[19:56:23] <Tom_itx> i mainly wanted it because i solder alot and the smoke fogs them up
[19:56:36] <Tom_itx> makes it easier to clean
[19:56:41] <A2Sheds> http://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-monitors/Electrohome%20G07-901%20RGB%20Monitor.pdf
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[19:57:58] <jdhNC> later
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[19:59:08] <cradek> nice find! <= 25.5 kV, pretty standard...?
[19:59:17] <A2Sheds> yes
[19:59:38] <A2Sheds> I can't believe somebody posted that manual
[20:00:10] * archivist saves a copy :)
[20:00:21] <A2Sheds> HV was not monitored at the anode
[20:00:28] <archivist> A2Sheds, you know I collect manuals :)
[20:00:47] <A2Sheds> happy to be of service
[20:02:33] <A2Sheds> that's the one that zapped me in the chest on the way to the dumpster
[20:03:01] <archivist> hehe http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=monitor
[20:03:36] <FinboySlick> Monitor with a grudge.
[20:04:12] <archivist> pliers on the nipple and the tube dies :)
[20:05:14] <A2Sheds> we used to try and implode them
[20:05:25] <A2Sheds> from afar
[20:06:07] <archivist> yes had qties to take to the tip from work so we had to be careful
[20:06:13] <andypugh> This visa application has been going on for an hour, and keeps being interrupted by 404s
[20:07:24] <andypugh> I started at 7pm, intending to ring the interview booking line (at £1.23 a minute!) when I finished. it's now after 9pm and they have closed.
[20:09:21] <A2Sheds> my son just turned 18 and his passport expired two months ago, now we have to go through all kinds of hoops to get a new one, so it's not much easier if you're in the US
[20:10:45] <A2Sheds> they wouldn't accept his old passport as a proof of ID either, had to be several other things
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[20:14:06] <andypugh> The annoying thing is, I don't actually want to go to the US. It just happens to be in the way.
[20:17:00] <A2Sheds> hmm 3/32 dia (.0945") 2.4mm thread on this screw. M2.5 or #2?
[20:17:29] <A2Sheds> #3
[20:17:30] <andypugh> 2.4 sounds right for 2.5mm
[20:18:17] <andypugh> But I don't think it is a preferred size
[20:18:58] <andypugh> Ah, no, it is.
[20:19:16] <andypugh> It's below 2 that you go to 1.6 and 1.2.
[20:19:37] <A2Sheds> Parker Motion uses them on their ballscrew positioners for the covers, I can't recall if it's metric or ansi
[20:19:41] <andypugh> M2.5 is 0.45mm pitch if that helps
[20:22:08] <Loetmichel> andypugh: see, TAHT i s a problem i seeminly will never have... since my application to german security check "UE" just failed a few moths ago.
[20:22:17] <andypugh> that would be 56.5tpi if you have a thread gauge. #3 would be 56tpi. (Oh, great!)
[20:22:31] <A2Sheds> heh
[20:23:00] <andypugh> Could be No7 Thury
[20:23:06] <Loetmichel> ( to much sins in my youth i presume) so i will likely never get a visa for the us, knowing how much date Germany and the us Homelad sec. interchange.
[20:23:07] <andypugh> Or 7 BA
[20:23:51] <andypugh> A2Sheds: http://www.bodgesoc.org/thread_dia_pitch.html
[20:24:30] <andypugh> I really should add the smaller metric sizes
[20:25:07] <A2Sheds> what size hex key would fit for a button head version?
[20:25:41] <A2Sheds> crap, the manual only has drawings of the locations
[20:27:23] <andypugh> M2.5 is 1.5mm driver
[20:27:34] <A2Sheds> I'm going with M2.5 since the other fasteners are all metric
[20:30:53] <A2Sheds> yeah, 1.5mm hex key stripped it, 1/16" worked
[20:33:04] <A2Sheds> ok, so 4000 counts post quadrature/rev with 5mm pitch screw, 1.25um/count
[20:35:05] <Tom_itx> what's the purpose of such a fine encoder? does it really have that much of an advantage over say a 1024 count?
[20:35:26] <Tom_itx> err you said post
[20:35:26] <A2Sheds> in my case it came on the servo with the drive
[20:35:35] <Tom_itx> mine are that i think
[20:35:40] <A2Sheds> yeah, 1000 count/rev
[20:36:30] <A2Sheds> straightness and flatness are only 12um for the drive
[20:37:19] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/maxbot/image006.jpg
[20:37:34] <Tom_itx> i forget what they are exactly
[20:37:39] <A2Sheds> rated load 107Kg (375 lbs)
[20:38:03] <A2Sheds> and my load is 0.5kg max
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[20:57:14] <A2Sheds> http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0173209&ucst=t $0.8735
[20:57:56] <andypugh> That makes little sense. motion.spindle-speed-out is negative for M4. But pwmgen does not take negative numbers
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[21:00:01] <cradek> which part of that do you think doesn't make sense?
[21:01:00] <cradek> (I sure agree you can't hook them directly together for some setups)
[21:04:45] <JT-Shop> I used something to make it always positive but forget atm
[21:05:25] <skunkworks> abs
[21:05:40] <JT-Shop> yea, that one
[21:05:42] <Danimal_garage> yea i eventually need to fix that on both my machines
[21:05:49] <Danimal_garage> no reverse
[21:06:00] <skunkworks> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/abs.9.html
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[21:08:07] <skunkworks> heh - I didn't notice it was andy asking the question.
[21:08:15] <Danimal_garage> ha
[21:08:23] <Danimal_garage> i didnt know he asked questions
[21:08:32] <Danimal_garage> i thought he only gave answers
[21:08:35] <Danimal_garage> like cradek
[21:08:56] <Danimal_garage> but regardless, you just helped me out
[21:10:02] <skunkworks> our vfd take 0-10v and cw/ccw signals
[21:10:14] <Danimal_garage> same here
[21:10:29] <JT-Shop> mine is +-10vdc
[21:10:48] <skunkworks> ours is mid 90's vintage
[21:10:59] <JT-Shop> I think I did the abs for the RPM meter
[21:11:02] <Danimal_garage> i think mine can run as +-10v as well, but i think it's easier to figure out emc than the vfd
[21:11:45] <andypugh> OK, sorry, I was away finding a neater solution.
[21:12:18] <andypugh> Right, the way to make stepconf drive the spindle properly is to use pwmgen type 1. You end up with an unconnected direction pin, but so what?
[21:13:17] <Danimal_garage> you rebel
[21:13:52] <JT-Shop> Dan, want a beer?
[21:14:18] <elmo40> is it Beero'clock already?
[21:14:19] <Danimal_garage> not yet
[21:14:26] <Danimal_garage> still working my arse off
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[21:22:02] <Danimal_garage> wanna help make some parts?
[21:22:17] <Danimal_garage> i know you want to learn how to anodize
[21:25:12] <JT-Shop> me too
[21:31:26] <elmo40> oohh, do esplain :)
[21:31:44] <elmo40> I'd love to 'hard' anodize some of my motorcycle parts
[21:33:47] <JT-Shop> I have a book and the chemicals just need the equipment
[21:34:30] <Danimal_garage> hard anodizing is a pain, i just do class II
[21:34:53] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: i've had luck with just a battery charger or even a pc power supply
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[21:35:41] <Danimal_garage> might need a heater, but i just use one from an aquarium
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[21:35:56] <Danimal_garage> in the summer i use ice in gatorade bottles
[21:36:19] <JT-Shop> how many stages is the process
[21:37:00] <Danimal_garage> clean/deox/desmut, anodize, dye, and seal
[21:37:36] <JT-Shop> that's what this book says too
[21:38:13] <Danimal_garage> casswell?
[21:38:17] <Danimal_garage> caswell*
[21:39:15] <JT-Shop> MoonLite Anodizing
[21:40:12] <Danimal_garage> caswell is probably the way to go for home anodizing
[21:40:53] <Danimal_garage> you can get away with a pretty minimal setup
[21:40:56] <JT-Shop> the chemicals are caswell but I'm missing cleaner and sealer
[21:41:28] <Danimal_garage> the sealer is a nickel acetate powder you put in boining water
[21:41:36] <Danimal_garage> it helps with UV protection
[21:41:55] <Danimal_garage> you can just use boiling water, especially if you're only doing clear
[21:42:03] <Danimal_garage> i don't use any cleaner
[21:42:40] <Danimal_garage> i use a heavy duty drain opener for the etching process, and i use the desmut from caswell, however you can just use the battery acid
[21:43:10] <Danimal_garage> if the parts are really dirty, just clean/degrease them with dish washing soap
[21:43:34] <Danimal_garage> the only thing you really need is the battery acid
[21:43:46] <Danimal_garage> which you can get at nappa
[21:44:06] <JT-Shop> I have 1 1/4 gallons of acid
[21:44:20] <Danimal_garage> battery acid?
[21:44:25] <JT-Shop> yea
[21:44:29] <Danimal_garage> or straight sulferic acid
[21:44:35] <JT-Shop> let me look
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[21:45:14] <Danimal_garage> it's like 3:1 acid to water i think, so that'll make a few gallons
[21:45:29] <Danimal_garage> i use a igloo cooler for the tank
[21:46:04] <JT-Shop> battery acid
[21:46:32] <Danimal_garage> yea that'll make a few gallons
[21:47:21] <Danimal_garage> i got 5 gallons from nappa
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[21:48:08] <Danimal_garage> i'm going to get another plastic shop sink from homo depot and turn that into an anodizing tank so i can do more capacity
[21:49:59] <Danimal_garage> my anodizing comes out better than the place i occasionally have do it when i'm swamped
[21:50:46] <robh__> lol, u mean when it comes back bad and some is good and they say it was the metal, or two different bits of metal
[21:50:52] <robh__> when it was al the same bar haha
[21:51:50] <Danimal_garage> haha
[21:52:13] <Danimal_garage> well i wouldnt say they do a bad job, i just take a little more time doing the prep
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[21:52:39] <Danimal_garage> and i'm more careful where i attach the clamps so that the contact points arent visible
[21:52:41] <robh__> which does pay off on the finished part :)
[21:53:03] <Danimal_garage> i dont etch them as long so they come out more shiny when i do it
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[21:53:32] <Danimal_garage> i polish them minutes before anodizing, so they don't need much of an etch or deox/desmut
[21:53:51] <Danimal_garage> do you do anodizing robh__?
[21:54:01] <robh__> try not too but ya lol
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[21:54:38] <robh__> was always waiting to long to get it back from platers even tho it was quite a total in
[21:55:15] <robh__> only small tanks tho, ~50gallons..
[21:55:23] <Danimal_garage> bigger than mine!
[21:55:38] <robh__> 60 us gallon that is
[21:55:42] <Danimal_garage> i have a 45L igloo cooler
[21:55:57] <robh__> yea i start with 20gallon tanks
[21:56:01] <Danimal_garage> what do you use as a chiller?
[21:56:08] <robh__> but then i got some proper Ti jigs so made my tanks bigger to use them
[21:56:16] <robh__> i dont use one, dont get hot enuth here
[21:56:27] <robh__> and baths are big enuth to keep temps down too
[21:56:54] <Danimal_garage> what kind of current do you use per square foot?
[21:57:05] <Danimal_garage> or whatever unit of measure lol
[21:57:17] <robh__> my seals and dye is in SS tanks, i made up and welded just from 304stainless then i put insolation foam around them work nice
[21:57:31] <robh__> 12amp per sq foot
[21:57:38] <Danimal_garage> i use the Caswell LCD method, so 6ASF
[21:57:45] <Danimal_garage> nice
[21:57:49] <Danimal_garage> i'm jealous
[21:57:56] <robh__> but i dont work out amps no more... i just 15v it, and keep a check on my acid tank levels
[21:58:09] <Danimal_garage> i just put my dye in tupperware containers and microwave it for 5 minutes lol
[21:58:24] <Danimal_garage> ah you run a much higher concentration of acid then
[21:58:41] <robh__> i got some nice old RAF PSUs from the bay, so do 50amp all day long nice cheap - that was most pain thing to find i found good PSU
[21:58:59] <Danimal_garage> i do the 15v method as well... i havent touched the knobs on my power supply in forever
[21:59:18] <Danimal_garage> nice
[21:59:44] <robh__> its nice make a part, same or next day have it anodized :)
[21:59:49] <Danimal_garage> i have an Astron 15v 50A
[22:00:22] <Danimal_garage> i made ti clips for my rack to hold the parts
[22:00:30] <Danimal_garage> do you use lead cathodes?
[22:00:31] <robh__> nice
[22:00:34] <robh__> no
[22:00:34] <robh__> alli
[22:00:44] <Danimal_garage> aluminum?
[22:00:46] <robh__> ye
[22:00:53] <Danimal_garage> why not lead?
[22:00:56] <robh__> just lined all the sides with it, use 1mm
[22:01:06] <robh__> just never tryed it and always have alli sheet offcuts etc
[22:01:15] <Danimal_garage> lead seems to be more trouble free
[22:01:25] <Danimal_garage> i used to use aluminum
[22:01:28] <robh__> only in sence of stops tank filling up with alli
[22:01:48] <robh__> but never had a prob so dont fit what aint broke
[22:01:55] <Danimal_garage> i hear ya
[22:02:32] <robh__> having Ti jigs was best investment i think such a time saver
[22:02:40] <Danimal_garage> definitely
[22:02:49] <Danimal_garage> i still use aluminum wire for some parts
[22:03:00] <Danimal_garage> but ti for the majority
[22:03:18] <robh__> yea same.. but them big ugly parts that wount fit
[22:03:27] <Danimal_garage> yea
[22:03:37] <Danimal_garage> what temp does your tank run?
[22:03:39] <robh__> Ti here is very pricy
[22:03:53] <Danimal_garage> i get it on ebay fairly cheap here
[22:04:37] <Danimal_garage> do you still need to keep your tank at about 68f?
[22:04:50] <Danimal_garage> or is it different with your acid concentration
[22:05:18] <robh__> 18-20c sort of
[22:05:28] <robh__> 65-70f
[22:05:59] <Danimal_garage> sorry for the 100 questions, i'm planning to upgrade my system and all i know is the lower current setups
[22:06:13] <Danimal_garage> im interested in how you're getting 12asf
[22:06:22] <Danimal_garage> do you know your acid concentration?
[22:06:28] <robh__> just pore size that changes with temp plus other things if get techi
[22:06:56] <Danimal_garage> yea, i have a hard time with the temp, i get desolution
[22:07:26] <Danimal_garage> i live in the desert though
[22:07:36] <robh__> aaah
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[22:08:05] <Danimal_garage> do you buy battery acid for yours or straight sulferic acid?
[22:08:10] <robh__> cant rember % of top my head but i think its 165g/l or something
[22:08:50] <robh__> it does not matter, start with bacid but i also had some diluted sulferic befroe too and made it up
[22:09:33] <robh__> i got a bit of it from a plating company tho they will are helpfull too
[22:09:57] <Danimal_garage> what's 165g/l?
[22:10:09] <Danimal_garage> im in the us, never seen that before lol
[22:11:01] <robh__> i think its 15% or something
[22:12:45] <robh__> 165g/l is what u get from a titration test to keep check on tank levels
[22:13:26] <Danimal_garage> ah i dont have a titration test
[22:13:37] <Danimal_garage> i just top it off with water when it gets low
[22:13:41] <Danimal_garage> so far so good
[22:13:52] <Danimal_garage> not very scientific i guess
[22:14:04] <robh__> no but it works for most part
[22:14:21] <Danimal_garage> i suspect i'm a little under 1mil
[22:14:24] <robh__> untill u drag too much out but takes awhile
[22:14:31] <Danimal_garage> but black still comes out black so i'm happy
[22:14:40] <Danimal_garage> yea
[22:14:46] <robh__> i find black is hardest colour to get right, others and easyer
[22:14:47] <Danimal_garage> i keep an eye on the voltage
[22:15:14] <robh__> sent u a link
[22:15:16] <Danimal_garage> pink is the worst for me, for some reason the color rinses out in the sealer
[22:15:29] <robh__> pink nice
[22:15:35] <Danimal_garage> ah thanks!
[22:15:51] <Danimal_garage> i have to steam it in the sealer before i actually put it in
[22:15:58] <robh__> clear now i love that, id do that all day if i could
[22:16:00] <Danimal_garage> every other color is fine
[22:16:13] <Danimal_garage> haha yea, i cheat, i run it a bit faster
[22:16:38] <Danimal_garage> i do 12 colors
[22:17:11] <robh__> haha me too
[22:17:25] <robh__> and only do 20mins of it
[22:17:36] <andypugh> Petzl used to do a camo-like blotchy anodising I quite liked
[22:17:40] <robh__> i do 2x soon to be 3, blue, black red
[22:17:58] <Danimal_garage> ha i do an hour with 7075 for clear, normally it's 1:20
[22:18:10] <Danimal_garage> since i'm only running 6asf
[22:18:32] <robh__> that T6 7075 or 0
[22:18:33] <Danimal_garage> i'm really interested in bumping that up to 12asf or at least more than 6asf
[22:18:36] <Danimal_garage> t6
[22:18:51] <Danimal_garage> 90% of what i do is 7075
[22:18:52] <robh__> id machine that all day let alown plate it
[22:19:01] <Danimal_garage> i do haha
[22:19:17] <Danimal_garage> cuts way better than 6061
[22:19:21] * JT-Shop wanders off to work on the ballista
[22:19:26] <robh__> we dont have 6061
[22:19:37] <robh__> 6082 here
[22:20:35] <Danimal_garage> where is here?
[22:21:25] <andypugh> Not actually the anodised pattern I was thinking of, but quite fun: http://www.mountainleisureperth.com/pub/files/.thumbnails/1287764156_petzl%20shunt_w500_h500.jpg
[22:21:56] <robh__> uk
[22:22:58] <Danimal_garage> i find it weird you don't have 6061 there... it's pretty much what everyone uses here
[22:23:37] <robh__> we used to many years back i think, then we and EU changed to 6082
[22:26:22] <elmo40> is there a way to only anodize certain areas? like using a tape to prevent the current from hitting a particular section?
[22:26:38] <robh__> yes
[22:26:53] <robh__> high temp masket or any other form of masking the acid does not eat
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[22:27:15] <robh__> *high temp masking
[22:28:21] <robh__> depends what it is, for holes , i use small silicon inserts to mask small holes , many other tricks out there
[22:31:07] <andypugh> Nail varnish?
[22:32:03] <robh__> would strip the dye out before u seal it i think
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[22:45:07] <Danimal_garage> i wish they made white dye
[22:45:21] <A2Sheds> heh, it's physics
[22:45:32] <robh__> lol
[22:45:42] <robh__> when ufind out how todo let us know we will make a mint
[22:45:44] <A2Sheds> the pores are smaller than the wavelength of light
[22:45:49] <Danimal_garage> haha i know
[22:46:00] <A2Sheds> you can anodize white
[22:46:08] <A2Sheds> it's a different chemistry
[22:46:43] <A2Sheds> you can get your pink by using a solvent based dye vs water based dye bath pretty easy
[22:46:45] <andypugh> Just anodise _really_ thick. Alumina is white
[22:48:07] <toastydeath> Danimal_garage, fine sandblasting and anodize with no dye
[22:48:10] <toastydeath> gets you a white effect
[22:48:52] <Danimal_garage> so does a ton of etching
[22:51:13] <A2Sheds> Danimal_garage: http://www.dyes.com/ProductLine/Inks/Writing+and+Marker+Ink/Keyfast+Spirit+Dyes+for+Solvant+Inks/ColorChart.html
[22:51:37] <A2Sheds> use those in denatured alcohol
[22:52:16] <Danimal_garage> for what?
[22:52:20] <Danimal_garage> anodizing?
[22:52:31] <A2Sheds> anodize your light colors
[22:52:44] <A2Sheds> they won't wash out when you seal
[22:53:21] <A2Sheds> it's also the secret to producing layered patterns when used with aqueous dyes
[22:53:41] <Danimal_garage> ah
[22:55:49] <A2Sheds> I can color parts that have been anodized but haven't been sealed even after 2 years
[22:58:58] <JT-Shop> anyone heard of a Copley stepper drive with microstepping set at 16,000?
[22:59:34] <Tom_itx> wtf
[22:59:37] <Danimal_garage> not me but no suprise there
[22:59:48] <Danimal_garage> sure it's not 1600?
[22:59:57] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:00:21] <Danimal_garage> i can just imagine a shitload if missed steps
[23:00:52] <JT-Shop> I don't think the drive outputs 16,000 microsteps
[23:01:03] <A2Sheds> http://www.italfinish.com/public/images/documenti/aacwhiteanod.pdf one way how to white anodize
[23:02:12] <A2Sheds> there are some other arc type anodizing techniques as well
[23:02:27] <A2Sheds> it works by scattering light
[23:03:10] <Danimal_garage> eh too much like work
[23:03:17] <A2Sheds> yeah
[23:03:21] <Danimal_garage> im already planning on cutting back on my color options
[23:04:32] <A2Sheds> anodize but don't seal, send them the parts along with some markers and let them make their own custom patterns, seal, charge %100 more
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[23:11:41] <Danimal_garage> yay, i found 2 pieces of material i needed
[23:11:46] <Danimal_garage> phew
[23:13:43] <Danimal_garage> man i got sooo far behind when i had to go back to my parent's for a week
[23:13:54] <Danimal_garage> cant believe i got caught up so fast though
[23:15:11] <elmo40> A2Sheds: how do you know if a part has not been sealed? (anodized)
[23:15:21] <elmo40> would it be dull?
[23:15:30] <Danimal_garage> no it looks the same
[23:16:15] <Danimal_garage> the pores are so small, you really wouldnt know, and i've never seen an unsealed part come from an aonodizer before
[23:16:53] <Jymmm> unsealed?
[23:16:55] <A2Sheds> elmo40: it won't be hard or scratch resistant
[23:17:17] <A2Sheds> is will be conductive if it is not sealed, the oxide is a good insulator
[23:17:29] <Danimal_garage> eh you're quite incorrect there
[23:17:51] <Danimal_garage> it's non conductive, sealed or not
[23:18:08] <Jymmm> O_o
[23:18:14] <robh__> rub with acetone might fetch dye out but i dont know never tryed it
[23:18:14] <Danimal_garage> sealing is really only heating it to close the pores. sometimes they use an additive to help with uv protection
[23:18:36] <SWPadnos> sealing is only needed to enclose whatever colorant you use, it shouldn't affect the insulating properties of the oxide layer
[23:18:44] <SWPadnos> if you're talking about anodizing Aluminum
[23:18:50] <Danimal_garage> you can seal it in boiling water
[23:19:08] <Danimal_garage> it'll seal at about 150f
[23:19:13] <Danimal_garage> maybe less
[23:19:14] * Jymmm waves to SWPadnos
[23:19:20] * SWPadnos waves back
[23:19:43] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: AC Wave huh?
[23:20:00] <SWPadnos> permanent wave
[23:20:04] <Jymmm> heh
[23:20:17] <Danimal_garage> direct current wave=slap
[23:20:47] * Danimal_garage waves at Jymmm in DC
[23:20:52] <Danimal_garage> :)
[23:21:24] * Jymmm test Danimal_garage conductive properties with a cattle prod
[23:21:52] * Danimal_garage wears his grounding shoes
[23:23:14] <Jymmm> FAK almost complete (I think)
[23:23:32] <Danimal_garage> FAK?
[23:23:33] <Jymmm> FAK == First Aid Kit
[23:23:37] <Danimal_garage> ah
[23:23:43] <Jymmm> for the house that is.
[23:23:50] <Danimal_garage> for when you cut your finger off with the laser?
[23:24:09] <Danimal_garage> you won't need a band aid, it will carterize it (sp)
[23:24:42] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: Could be, I do have sutures and lidocane
[23:25:05] <Danimal_garage> i dont even have band aids
[23:25:10] <Danimal_garage> or anything
[23:25:26] <Danimal_garage> not even a forth aid kit
[23:25:38] <Jymmm> When I finish the list of items, you want a copy?
[23:25:44] <Danimal_garage> i got tylenol for hangovers, that's about it
[23:25:52] <Danimal_garage> sure!
[23:25:59] <Jymmm> ok,
[23:26:02] <Danimal_garage> i should put something together
[23:26:12] <Danimal_garage> i guess i'm an adult now
[23:26:15] <Danimal_garage> kinda
[23:26:16] <zhanx> lol
[23:26:35] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: I don't believe in ANY FAK that I've ever seen. all are incomplete and overpriced.
[23:26:38] <zhanx> my neighbor is a medic and a homebody i got the best first aid kit
[23:26:52] <zhanx> pound on wall and he comes over
[23:27:01] <Danimal_garage> ny neighbor is in a sewing club. i'll have her stitch me up
[23:27:22] <Danimal_garage> knit me a sling
[23:27:28] <Jymmm> hahaha
[23:27:38] <zhanx> lol
[23:27:53] <Danimal_garage> i dont even have an emergency kit for natural disasters
[23:27:57] <zhanx> cole just brings jack or jim over and calles it good
[23:28:04] <Danimal_garage> ha
[23:28:30] <Danimal_garage> i figure my reverse osmosis water system holds 5 gallons of water so i'm good for a few days there
[23:28:37] <zhanx> Danimal_garage, for a decent first aid kit look at leg drop pouches, my issue one is really good
[23:28:53] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: That's the 2nd thing I'm working on (more intently)
[23:29:08] <Danimal_garage> and i have a few packs of brats and sandwich meat/cheese, and i always have ice in the freezer
[23:29:18] <Danimal_garage> plus i usually have beer
[23:29:27] <zhanx> i got a case of beer and some mre's
[23:29:29] <Danimal_garage> and my cell phone has a flashlight app
[23:29:51] <Danimal_garage> and my van has auxilary batteries and an inverter
[23:30:01] <Danimal_garage> im good for a while
[23:30:17] <A2Sheds> http://www.optics.arizona.edu/optomech/student%20reports/2008%20presentations/Randall%20Marks%20Anodize%20Aluminum.ppt
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[23:30:48] <Danimal_garage> i dont open files on this computer
[23:30:52] <zhanx> thinking i am too lazy to setup up the machine to cut tonight the bat can wait till tomorrow
[23:30:57] <Danimal_garage> it's a POS and freezes
[23:31:38] <A2Sheds> trying to find a good pdf
[23:31:58] <Danimal_garage> i only use this pc for irc and pandora
[23:32:03] <zhanx> Danimal_garage what are you running for a cnc?
[23:32:43] <Danimal_garage> i have a shizuoka ans 3 axis mill with 24 position tool changer, and a hardinge hnc lathe, and a small servo desktop mill for engraving
[23:32:51] <zhanx> wow
[23:33:03] <Danimal_garage> eh, not so much wow
[23:33:15] <zhanx> ok, i just got a microcarve a4 and working on a pcb mill
[23:33:22] <Danimal_garage> nice
[23:33:35] <zhanx> 9x11x6" but works in my limited space
[23:33:48] <Danimal_garage> my mill isnt the best but it's working (usually)
[23:34:07] <zhanx> after my pcb mill is done i am gonna finish my 3d scanner
[23:34:07] <Danimal_garage> that's about the travel on my desktop mill
[23:34:13] <Danimal_garage> nice
[23:34:25] <zhanx> my pcb mill is a 6x6x2"
[23:34:40] <Danimal_garage> thats all you really need
[23:34:51] <zhanx> yep, if i need more i will stack boards
[23:35:37] <zhanx> thinking i should make the head changeable so i can use it as a little 3d printer also
[23:35:55] <Danimal_garage> i've never made a pcb
[23:36:12] <zhanx> i have made then on transparent paper even
[23:36:21] <zhanx> staples for via's etc
[23:36:40] <A2Sheds> http://aluminumsurface.blogspot.com/2009/04/why-sealing-process-is-so-important.html
[23:37:51] <zhanx> sweet just got the email my drill rod will be delivered tomorrow
[23:38:11] <zhanx> too bad my china power supply will be here like next year
[23:39:11] <JT-Shop> it's only 3 months till christmas
[23:39:58] <elmo40> >_<
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[23:41:35] <zhanx> darn, my lathe guy said he doesn't have metric sizes so cant do my 8mm holders
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[23:44:03] <fritzgutten> hey there, anyone ever control a spindle with step and direction signals?
[23:44:26] <zhanx> not even sure why you would want to do that
[23:44:44] <A2Sheds> elmo40: trying to find a presentation but, if your fingerprints stay in the aluminum anodize then it wasn't sealed is an easy way to tell
[23:45:15] <fritzgutten> if i were trying to drive an extruder on a 3d printer as a spindle i would ;)
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[23:45:54] <zhanx> fritzgutten check out steprap
[23:45:59] <zhanx> reprap on a cnc
[23:47:12] <fritzgutten> seems like most of those guys are driving the extruder as an a axis, i would rather treat it as a spindle with unlimited revs
[23:47:12] <elmo40> A2Sheds: good to know
[23:47:20] <elmo40> and wipe it before you seal the prints in... ;)
[23:47:31] <Danimal_garage> the only way to tell if it wasnt sealed is with a microscope, or comparing it to a part that is the same material and prepped in the exact same way. other than seeing if it would absorb dye
[23:48:10] <A2Sheds> with a SEM vs optical microscope
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[23:48:15] <Danimal_garage> by the naked eye, it's pretty hard to tell
[23:48:24] <fritzgutten> so just curious about linking spindle speed to step and direction pins in hal
[23:48:44] <JT-Shop> you can have a stepper driven spindle
[23:49:10] <A2Sheds> or the sharpie test
[23:49:15] <fritzgutten> dont happen to have a link to some info do you?
[23:49:54] <JT-Shop> pncconf can do that for you iirc
[23:52:21] <fritzgutten> have to look up on using it, is it included in the latest release?
[23:52:51] <JT-Shop> yea, open a terminal and type in pncconf
[23:53:01] <JT-Shop> there also might be some info on the wiki
[23:54:02] <fritzgutten> got it, just found the pncconf directions on the forums
[23:54:12] <fritzgutten> i'll give it a whirl!
[23:56:01] <JT-Shop> hmm I don't see it when the parallel port is selected
[23:58:26] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,16/id,3518