#emc | Logs for 2011-09-18

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[01:12:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Do you have any Smart and Final's in your area?
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[02:47:20] <Tom_itx> i can use the 7I47 to drive a SSR right?
[02:47:33] <Tom_itx> it says 35ma in the pdf
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[02:48:42] <Tom_itx> using the inverted side and tying the SSR + to power
[02:49:26] <Tom_itx> testing with an led seems to work ok
[02:54:31] <pcw_home> Sure 7I47 has 5V swing outputs
[02:55:55] <Tom_itx> i was testing what we talked about the other day with a pullup on it but i may not need one
[02:56:21] <Tom_itx> haven't tried the actual hardware yet though
[02:57:20] <Tom_itx> i think i reserved a pin on the 47 so i may not need to tap into P3 on the 7I43 just yet
[03:01:47] <Tom_itx> to assure it is off on startup the inverted signal is needed though
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[03:22:48] <pcw_home> No pullup is needed on the 7I47 output, Either output will drive a SSR either way (5V referred or gnd referred loads OK)
[03:24:36] <pcw_home> yes inverted signals are needed if you use the FPGA pins directly since the FPGA pins are active low (and high at power up)
[03:30:18] <Tom_itx> i tested it on both
[03:30:39] <Tom_itx> they both seem to work (at least with an led) with no pullup
[03:38:36] <jdhNC> what SSR? I have some opto22's that draw almost nothing
[03:39:02] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure what it it for sure
[03:39:57] <Tom_itx> (if that made sense) reaching across 2 kbds and looking at 3 monitors here
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[03:41:05] <Tom_itx> i've been using it on my sherline for quite a few years now
[03:41:15] <jdhNC> for spindle power?
[03:41:19] <Tom_itx> yes
[03:41:26] <jdhNC> any leakage problems?
[03:41:29] <Tom_itx> switching it over to emc to try
[03:41:35] <Tom_itx> not that i've noticed
[03:42:17] <jdhNC> mine hums sometimes... a few mA leakage
[03:42:39] <Tom_itx> never noticed anything unusual
[03:46:24] <pcw_home> Yeah I guess most SCR/TRIAC based SSRs always leak a few mA through the host leadswhen off
[03:46:36] <pcw_home> hot leads
[03:47:11] <pcw_home> probably needed to run the SCR side logic
[03:47:59] <jdhNC> just enough to make my cheap router motor hum in some spots
[03:48:52] <pcw_home> Or get a fair shock so I have heard
[03:49:13] <jdhNC> I'll attempt to not verify that.
[03:50:17] <jdhNC> I have a contactor I could use instead, but it would require a DC relay for the coil
[03:51:32] <pcw_home> You have a DC coil contactor?
[03:52:03] <jdhNC> this one is 120 coil, I'd need the dc relay to switch the 120
[03:52:22] <pcw_home> Ah 120VDC
[03:52:41] <pcw_home> How many mA?
[03:53:15] <jdhNC> no, it's an AC coil, but it would require the other relay for teh coil
[03:53:59] <pcw_home> yea or a weensy SSR
[03:55:02] <jdhNC> is a 5i25 operationally much different than a 5i22?
[03:55:15] <pcw_home> I think there are some of those photovoltaic/MOSFET OPTOs that would work for that
[03:57:11] <pcw_home> well 5I25 has much fewer I/O pins, a newer but smaller FPGA (Sort of 400k-ish like the 5I23s FPGA)
[03:57:47] <jdhNC> this is for a 3 axis step/dir, home/limits, estop, probe, maybe spindle encoder
[03:58:14] <pcw_home> and also has on card configuration storage (it need to, it contains the PCI bus interface)
[03:58:38] <jdhNC> I noticed the vendor id's changed
[04:00:18] <Tom_itx> don't FPGA's load their config on startup opposed to CPLD's?
[04:00:23] <Tom_itx> it's been a while for me...
[04:00:38] <pcw_home> well simple configs like that should be fine, We figured that most slow (well updated at servo thread rate = 1 --> 5 KHz)
[04:00:40] <pcw_home> GPIO could use serial IO expanders so we dont need so many pins anymore for most motion systems
[04:02:40] <pcw_home> Yes FPGAs often load their config from an external chip (or from the system bus like most of our FPGA cards)
[04:02:42] <pcw_home> There are some FPGA with on chip flash storage, but all eventually get get loaded into RAM cells in the FPGA
[04:04:12] <pcw_home> Even some CPLDs are RAM based (they load the RAM cells from on chip EEPROM memory at power up)
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[04:10:18] <pcw_home> (other 5I25,5I22 difference is that 5I25 is target only at least until I get more ambitious and write a bus master PCI core)
[04:10:20] <pcw_home> not that this makes any real difference as the Hostmot2 driver does not yet support DMA
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[09:06:33] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[09:12:22] <cncbasher> awallin>convert dwg to dxf format first in draftsight or similar
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[09:16:41] <awallin> cncbasher: hm, ok... might just boot a win machine..
[09:17:23] <cncbasher> if your stuck send it over and i'll convert it
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[11:38:50] <jthornton_> up in the trees yesterday in the rain http://imagebin.org/172934
[11:42:23] <awallin> I thought tree-houses were for kids? :)
[11:43:17] <jthornton> well yes they are for kids
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[11:49:11] <jthornton_> http://imagebin.org/172935
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[12:26:38] <Tom_itx> just monkeying around
[12:27:39] <jthornton> LOL
[12:28:39] <alex_joni> jthornton: great :)
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[12:54:35] <JT-Shop> what is the name of that really good machine paint?
[12:56:35] <archivist> ooo shiny
[12:56:47] <Loetmichel> any 2k car paint?
[12:57:10] <JT-Shop> no, this is a specific one for machines... I can't remember the brand
[12:57:12] <Loetmichel> meaning two component paint
[12:57:23] <JT-Shop> awallin used it I think
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[13:31:25] <JT-Shop> logger[psha]: log
[13:34:00] <JT-Shop> <anonimasu> hammerite
[13:34:04] <JT-Shop> found it
[13:41:48] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Do yo have Smart and Final stores in your area?
[13:41:55] <JT-Shop> no
[13:41:57] <syyl> hammerite as a good machine paint? Oo
[13:42:04] <JT-Shop> yea
[13:42:15] <syyl> over here, that stuff is water based since a few years
[13:43:02] <Loetmichel> hammerite (the kinde with the scructurend surface) is the worst thing you can do to a macine
[13:43:18] <Loetmichel> it contains silicone oil for the "hammered" look
[13:43:29] <JT-Shop> the smooth one it what I will use
[13:43:41] <JT-Shop> not looking for a "look"
[13:43:47] <Loetmichel> which means that jou NEVER get a nea new paint
[13:44:21] <Loetmichel> which means that jou NEVER get a new pain on te machine without grinding it completely off AND usind silicone remover in masses
[13:44:38] <syyl> i would go for a good primer and paint (maybe even 2k) from a well knowed brand
[13:44:58] <Loetmichel> yeah that would be my way too
[13:45:13] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Well, if you ever come across this, grab a bag or two (frozen)... http://fresh.amazon.com/product?asin=B00113YTF2
[13:46:47] <JT-Shop> I use Nason Ful-Thane 2k urethane on my tractor
[13:47:57] <JT-Shop> http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/b/nsn/home.html
[13:49:34] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Nuke the chicken as directed, then toss the sauces in a pan over med heat, add the chicken, and stir occasionally till the sauce is reduced to your preference.
[13:49:55] * ries re-checks if this is the EMC channel :D
[13:49:57] <JT-Shop> can you e-mail me some
[13:50:48] <syyl> now its the chicken-channel
[13:50:52] <syyl> and i get hungry
[13:50:59] <Jymmm> ries: Everybody Must Chowdown
[13:51:00] <ries> works for me....
[13:51:41] <JT-Shop> http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/nsn/Nason/435-91_IB_Ful-Thane_2K_Urethane.pdf
[13:52:52] <syyl> that paint sounds good
[13:53:10] <JT-Shop> I'm cooking a roasting hen on the Big Easy this afternoon drizzled with EVOO garlic powder and adobo powder
[13:53:27] <JT-Shop> I've used it on my tractor and it seems to hold up well
[13:54:05] <JT-Shop> the color match ends up being the same as a 1980 Porsche Bamboo Beige
[13:56:29] <Jymmm> In a frying pan, add 2-4 tablespoons of water, tablespoon of chicken bullion, fresh/frozen brocolli, carrots, couple of onion slices, head of cabbage sliced to about 1.5" wide, blk pepper to taste. cover and simmer over med-heat till everything is softened partially. Add some corn starch (pre-diluted in water) and let it cook out and thicken up a bit. Makes a nice sauce instead of just steamed veggies.
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[13:57:18] <Jymmm> Serve chicken and veggies over steamed rice... aka Rice Bowl
[13:57:40] <JT-Shop> so my internet searches show that both Mobil DTE 32 and 68 are used in the headstock of manual lathes like mine... I can't remember what I used when I first bought it :/
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[14:37:15] <IchGuckLive> high does the Realtime kernal not install under min requirerments ?
[14:37:24] <IchGuckLive> i got 500Mhz at 512Mbram
[14:37:56] <IchGuckLive> rti kernal did not load
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[14:44:57] <psha> IchGuckLive: problem with rtai kernel is not reqs
[14:45:26] <psha> mhz/mbytes represent just general guidelines
[14:45:48] <anonimasu> it works on slower just not satisfactory.
[14:47:50] <anonimasu> JT-Shop: i think epoxy based is better, however requires primer too
[14:50:01] <IchGuckLive> i simply downloadet the liveCD 10.04emc and installt it it took 45min
[14:50:23] <IchGuckLive> no emc is starting at all
[14:52:03] <JT-Shop> anonimasu: I'm not sure I want to spray paint the lathe or not... it's a Samson made in Taiwan I think
[14:53:01] <pcw_home> IchGuckLive: What CPU maybe you have? maybe you have the "LAPIC not enabled" error with such an old CPU
[14:53:23] <pcw_home> what CPU do you have
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[14:54:29] <pcw_home> Ubuntu 8.04 might be better on older hardware
[14:56:42] <IchGuckLive> oh i dont now what cpu is on
[14:56:52] <IchGuckLive> i try 8.04
[14:57:33] <IchGuckLive> i think i have seen this lapic error
[15:02:06] <pcw_home> dmesg | grep LAPIC
[15:05:00] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: it grept nothing the promt returnd
[15:05:37] <frysteev> im looking at this http://www.everlastwelders.ca/product_details.php?id=317
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[15:11:33] * Tom_itx gives Jymmm an apron and chef hat
[15:11:55] <pcw_home> maybe dmesg | grep -i LAPIC
[15:12:44] <pcw_home> in case its not capitalized properly
[15:13:09] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, just wander down to the shipyard and swipe a couple gallons of battleship gray
[15:15:49] <Tom_itx> http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/BS381C-Paints.html
[15:19:02] <jthornton> I did discover the original paint color was gray, more like Light Aircraft Grey
[15:19:27] <frysteev> that would be cool do to battleship numbering on it
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[15:56:23] * JT-Shop dug into his freebee box and found a brand new Jacobs keyless chuck and a brand new MT adapter for it...
[15:56:39] <JT-Shop> now my $75 drill press is worth $300
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[16:17:28] <IchGuckLive> Question can i change the name Spindel in Axis
[16:17:50] <IchGuckLive> i want to have the HotWirer ON of button
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[16:19:43] <IchGuckLive> Another Question if i move on a XYUVB mashine G1 X5 U10 F10 is this syncronised
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[16:36:34] <JT-Shop> IchGuckLive: the X and U will reach the endpoint at the same time AFAIK
[16:37:00] <JT-Shop> grep for spindle in axis.py you might find it there
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[16:47:48] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: thanks
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[16:49:36] <JT-Shop> np
[16:50:39] <JT-Shop> anyone have an idea of what typical kind of feet would be used on a 14x36 manual lathe if any
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[17:00:27] <Tom_itx> just levelers or lead it in once level
[17:00:53] <Tom_itx> our big gridleys were leaded in
[17:02:14] <Tom_itx> they may not use that process so much anymore though
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[17:06:08] <JT-Shop> let get a photo
[17:07:05] <Tom_itx> or maybe just some square steel shims
[17:09:23] <anonimasu> levelling feet usually
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[17:12:57] <JT-Shop> this is the leveling bolt http://imagebin.org/172972 after cleaning out all the concrete, sand, dirt, chips....
[17:13:26] <Tom_itx> so use those
[17:13:46] <JT-Shop> but should not there be something under the bolt?
[17:13:53] <Tom_itx> if you want
[17:13:57] <JT-Shop> the hole http://imagebin.org/172973
[17:14:06] <Tom_itx> you could fab a cup with a divit in it
[17:14:25] <JT-Shop> these are worn with a bit of a taper so when you turn them they move the lathe
[17:14:33] <JT-Shop> just solid metal
[17:14:47] <Tom_itx> metric?
[17:14:53] <JT-Shop> all inch
[17:15:27] <Tom_itx> make some 'JT Feet' with a divit in the middle
[17:15:40] <JT-Shop> I can do that lol
[17:16:13] <JT-Shop> turn the ends down to a half dog point
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[17:27:18] <JT-Shop> I think some swivel leveling mounts would be the best...
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[17:28:34] <Tom_itx> you're likely only gonna level it once
[17:29:08] <JT-Shop> well, I'm not 100% sure where everything is going to go...
[17:29:39] <Tom_itx> draw up a cad model of your shop and equipment
[17:31:07] <archivist> I never followed a cad drawing for a workshop...available free stuff defines what fits where
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[17:32:18] <JT-Shop> that's one reason I built the gantry to shuffle stuff about till it all fits :)
[17:33:29] <archivist> like an oops and you need space for stock out the rear of the lathe spindle
[17:34:05] <JT-Shop> or crap, I have to open up the garage door to feed stock into the Hardinge chucker
[17:34:54] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Nah, give em to JT-Shop
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[17:36:20] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: better than having to open the wall to feed it
[17:36:55] <Loetmichel> hey, the natice speakers around: does "a couple" in english means exactly two or ist it used in de meaning of "few" also? Had just an argument with my wife about this (who is a english teacher and ist certain about it) but i think i have hear it being used otherwise.
[17:36:57] <JT-Shop> $26 each I think I order them from McMaster and they hold 20,000lbs each so I know they won't be overloaded :)
[17:37:10] <Loetmichel> native
[17:37:29] <JT-Shop> usually "a couple of..." means two
[17:37:42] <JT-Shop> but could be more as needed
[17:37:59] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: couple is one or two, a few is 3-7 iirc
[17:38:12] <Loetmichel> damn it, she was right ... (again ;-)
[17:38:41] <JT-Shop> do you know what a rank is?
[17:38:47] <Loetmichel> no
[17:39:10] <JT-Shop> it's any amount of firewood both the buyer and seller agree on :)
[17:39:19] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: nice ;-)
[17:39:35] <archivist> JT-Shop, make sure you can get the gantry over the mill for tricks like http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_Statfold/p1010169.jpg
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[17:42:57] <Loetmichel> something like a "Schüttraummeter" in german. (means 1 m^3 of loose piled up firewood, can be anywhere in the range of 0,3 to 0,6 m^3 of pure wood depending on the accuracy of the piling)
[17:43:05] <Loetmichel> but i get the idea ;-)
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[17:45:43] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: <Loetmichel> something like a "Schüttraummeter" in german. (means 1 m^3 of loose piled up firewood, can be anywhere in the range of 0,3 to 0,6 m^3 of pure wood depending on the accuracy of the piling)
[17:45:43] <Loetmichel> [19:43:00] <Loetmichel> but i get the idea ;-)
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[17:46:09] <Loetmichel> grrrr
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[17:46:13] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[17:53:08] * FinboySlick grumbles at how fast the machine has to move to meet feed per tooth requirements on aluminium.
[17:55:01] <FinboySlick> Should rated SFM be seen as an upper limit? What are the main consequences of running below it?
[17:55:03] <Tom_itx> lower the rpm
[17:55:16] <Tom_itx> gumming up the cutter
[17:56:11] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: So if my machine can actually handle those speeds, i'd be better off sticking to rated SFM?
[17:56:41] <Tom_itx> you can probably run below that somewhat
[17:58:05] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: This hog wants 800SFM at 0.00175in/tooth. That's 16500rpm at 86in/min.
[18:00:56] <FinboySlick> It sounds scary to me.
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[18:01:20] <FinboySlick> BTW, sorry to all of you for coming here looking for reassurance all the time ;)
[18:04:32] <FinboySlick> Actually, let's move to a more EMC related question that is linked to that insecurity. When I tested higher movement rates on the machine, I found that EMC doesn't ramp down speed when it's nearing an axis limit.
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[18:05:40] <FinboySlick> So, having soft limit a bit too close to the actual hard limits, that caused (mild) crashes while jogging at full speed.
[18:05:50] <FinboySlick> This a bug or a feature?
[18:08:14] <FinboySlick> Or merely the fact that steppers are just expected to stop dead when you aren't sending pulses to them?
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[18:11:26] <archivist> FinboySlick, steppers have to be decelerated properly
[18:12:14] <FinboySlick> archivist: That's sort of what I assumed. Could it be that EMC doesn't do that when 'keyboard jogging'?
[18:12:44] <FinboySlick> Or more likely that I didn't set the acceleration limits properly?
[18:13:05] <Jymmm> Sounds like an axis misconfiguration to me, but what do I know
[18:14:11] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Well, that too. Assuming that it does decelerate properly though, does it decelerate once it reaches a soft limit or before it reaches a soft limit?
[18:14:46] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: soft limit? Like a physical point?
[18:15:46] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Soft limit as in telling EMC that the X axis can only go from -150mm to 150mm when physically, the machine can go to -155mm and 155mm.
[18:16:25] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: If you're "overdriving" it, and requires 10feet to come to a complete stop, but give the soft limit at 7 feet, it's gonna crash.
[18:19:31] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Obviously. I'm definitely no expert in axis configuration but according to the wizard, you supply max travel, max speed and max acceleration. When you jog along an axis and hit max travel going max speed, it's obviously going to keep going. My question is does EMC start decelerating before it hits max travel or after it hits max travel.
[18:20:48] <FinboySlick> If it's before it hits max travel, I loose speed near limits. If it's after it hits max travel, then I loose range.
[18:26:39] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: I'm sorry, you can't do 100MPH and expect to make a right turn at 0.25 feet from the brick wall... IT"S THE LAW!
[18:27:13] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I'm not complaining about loosing either, I'm trying to figure out which I should expect to loose.
[18:27:45] <Jymmm> d) All the above.
[18:27:56] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, sure you can
[18:28:08] <Tom_itx> you don't watch enough cartoons
[18:28:25] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Ah, true enough. my bad
[18:28:41] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: OK, so I set the axis limits according to the time it will take EMC to decelerate past them?
[18:29:27] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: I suspect cradek_ jepler would know
[18:31:41] <FinboySlick> If such is the case, I'm thinking it's a bit counter-intuitive.
[18:31:52] <Jymmm> Has anyone ACTUALLY used a stepper motor as a generator?
[18:32:05] <Tom_itx> not for very long
[18:32:07] <Tom_itx> but yes
[18:32:15] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I have a feeling you'd get some pretty nasty voltage spikes.
[18:32:30] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Did you take any measurements? Does it output AC?
[18:32:38] <Tom_itx> i don't remember
[18:32:56] <Tom_itx> probably so
[18:32:59] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: That's what regulators are for =)
[18:33:08] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Heh, I think it wouldn't take much speed for it to start outputting RF ;)
[18:33:41] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Ok, I think I have a NEMA17 in the junk box I can play with.
[18:35:18] <Jymmm> I ordered one of these, but wanted to make something that could really work http://www.dealextreme.com/p/dynamo-hand-crank-usb-cell-phone-emergency-charger-24036
[18:35:58] <Tom_itx> getting ready for the apocalipse?
[18:36:27] * FinboySlick suspects that if you're down to hand-cranks for electricity, cell phones will have been out for a while.
[18:36:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yeah, been doing that for a while now actually. My solar blanket no worky in the rain =)
[18:37:48] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Just picked up one of these http://www.mrheater.com/product.aspx?catid=41&id=24
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[18:38:18] <atom1> http://www.thebackshed.com/cnc/RouterA5.asp
[18:39:19] <atom1> what you really want is a Fisher & Paykel motor from a european washer
[18:39:28] <atom1> http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/fp2a.asp
[18:39:48] <FinboySlick> atom1: Hmmm, nice work... I've been wondering though, don't chains have fairly high backlash?
[18:40:02] <atom1> not me, just a link
[18:40:21] <atom1> <- Tom_itx
[18:40:40] <Jymmm> atom1: I'm not at the 30+ day point yet, still at the 3+d
[18:41:07] <Jymmm> well, ok 7d
[18:42:25] <Jymmm> One of the most difficult things was providing indoor heat in a reasonable fashion.
[18:43:51] <Jymmm> Even with a generator, a 1500W heater doesn't output very much
[18:44:47] <Tom_itx> that first link was supposed to be a stepper generator hack. obviously it wasn't
[18:45:51] <Jymmm> http://www.reuk.co.uk/Electricity-with-Stepper-Motors.htm
[18:47:13] <atom1> http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/assemblyMini1.asp
[18:47:40] <atom1> i've got some of those
[18:48:35] <atom1> old full height ibm floppy steppers
[18:49:05] <Jymmm> http://www.zetatalk.com/energy/tengy05n.htm
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[18:54:42] <Jymmm> I have a couple (like this) and they work good for what they are... http://www.dealextreme.com/p/2-led-dynamo-battery-free-hand-pressed-led-flashlight-7743
[18:54:57] <Jymmm> far easier than any crank light http://www.dealextreme.com/p/2-led-dynamo-battery-free-hand-pressed-led-flashlight-7743
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[19:02:29] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: a rank, rick, face cord, truck load, a mess, a pile are terms made up by firewood mongers to confuse and cheat buyers
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[19:02:51] <Jymmm> face cord?
[19:04:56] <Jymmm> Never heard that term before.
[19:05:55] <JT-Shop> which one?
[19:06:43] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, it mustuv worked
[19:07:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: "face cord"
[19:07:22] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: which, the term you mean?
[19:07:23] <Tom_itx> dimensions of a cord from the side however probably cut short
[19:07:50] <Jymmm> ah
[19:08:09] <Tom_itx> i dunno really
[19:08:13] <Tom_itx> just a wag
[19:08:44] <Jymmm> ah
[19:10:25] <JT-Shop> it is generally agreed that a face cord is the height and width of a cord but the depth is subject to interpretation buy the seller and buyer even though there is no such unit of measurement
[19:10:40] <Tom_itx> as i figured
[19:11:18] <JT-Shop> a rank is about this high (holds hand up) and that long and a rick is 1/2 of that
[19:11:55] <Tom_itx> good we don't machine parts with that measuring system
[19:12:15] <JT-Shop> a clever wood stacker can make a 1/2 cord look like a cord
[19:12:26] <Tom_itx> lots of '
[19:12:28] <Tom_itx> air'
[19:12:33] <JT-Shop> yea
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[20:10:01] <FinboySlick> Hmmm, another acceleration related question. My spindle takes a while to reach decent RPM from a standstill. Is there a way to give EMC a max acceleration on the spindle and have that factored in when spindle speed is set? Otherwise it might start cutting before spindle is up to speed.
[20:10:53] <FinboySlick> I can just insert a pause in the gcode, obviously. But if this kind of 'smart' is already built-in, why not use it?
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[20:11:23] <awallin> isn't there a spindle-at-speed input to motion?
[20:11:50] <FinboySlick> awallin: I don't have spindle speed feedback.
[20:11:57] <awallin> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/motion.9.html
[20:12:28] <awallin> FinboySlick: ok, so then you fake it by calculating some delay after a spindle speed change and wiring that to spindle-at-speed
[20:12:56] <FinboySlick> awallin: Nifty :)
[20:13:18] <awallin> there should be some velocity-limiter component...
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[20:13:40] <awallin> this http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/limit2.9.html
[20:14:03] <eli7777> hey what cad/cam programs are ppl using on linux?
[20:14:14] <awallin> spindle-speed-out => limit2 => compare to spindle-speed-out => spindle-at-speed
[20:14:32] <awallin> something like that.. might have to put a tolerance on the comparison operation?
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[20:14:57] <awallin> eli7777: there's no good free CAM. librecad for 2d cad, freecad maybe for 3d
[20:15:03] <FinboySlick> awallin: I have a bit of reading up to do, so far I've only toyed with the wizard.
[20:15:22] <awallin> FinboySlick: yeah, real men write HAL-files with vi. or something...
[20:15:34] <FinboySlick> awallin: I'm pretty handy with vi at least.
[20:16:06] <FinboySlick> awallin: I guess that means I have the balls to be a real men, just need to fill them.
[20:17:16] <FinboySlick> awallin: Any input on my earlier acceleration questions (if you saw them)? I was wondering if emc computes deceleration before it reaches an axis limit or after.
[20:17:35] <eli7777> i didnt ask about free cad. i only asked what the good folks here for using that worked on linux. i would settle for what works under wine. i really only need a 2.5d engraving/pocket
[20:19:32] <eli7777> or does no one here use a cam program and im just wanting to be lazy?
[20:20:10] <FinboySlick> eli7777: I think a lot just go with standard windows stuff or gcode by hand.
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[20:20:47] <FinboySlick> eli7777: I think there's a plethora of g-code generators for different things like pockets and what not.
[20:21:20] <eli7777> ok. i was really wanting to get away from having booting up in xp.
[20:21:58] <FinboySlick> eli7777: Personally I do the windows thing for design and dedicate the linux box to just emc.
[20:22:08] <eli7777> yeah i looked at the wiki but there is alot on there and i was kinda wanting to cut to something that was mostly useable rather then playing with all of them to find what is workable
[20:22:13] <FinboySlick> eli7777: Ironically, my everyday and work desktop is linux however.
[20:22:32] <eli7777> that is a little funny.
[20:22:51] <eli7777> so do you use a program for cam?
[20:23:43] <FinboySlick> eli7777: I'm very much still in the noob/hobby field right now. 'use' is a very big word.
[20:23:48] <awallin> on windows I have used mastercam and surfcam. nowadays something that works in solidworks is maybe more popular.
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[20:25:01] <FinboySlick> eli7777: Most of my learning process doesn't involve CAM so far, just trying to learn how to get good finishes, proper speeds/feeds, optimizing the machine so I can reach those goals and that is on very little actual spare time to toy with it.
[20:25:05] <eli7777> for cad i use solidegde. i used mastcam 9.1 but that has been a few yeas.
[20:25:07] <Tom_itx> awallin, which do you prefer?
[20:25:12] <Tom_itx> MC or SC?
[20:25:46] <Tom_itx> i liked sc comms better at the time i was actively spitting out g code
[20:26:19] <awallin> I'm no expert... used them both a few years ago, but maybe MC.
[20:26:35] <Tom_itx> i liked smartcam over mastercam at the time
[20:26:48] <awallin> it's funny that if you read the camzone blog basically most programs have the same components under the hood anyway
[20:26:51] <Tom_itx> they've been bought and sold a couple times since
[20:27:18] <awallin> this take: http://camzone.org/2011/09/07/component-technology-theres-no-fun-without-it/
[20:27:21] <Tom_itx> yeah, one nice thing is smartcam allowed you to write custom posts for any machine
[20:27:29] <Tom_itx> iirc, you had to purchase them with mc
[20:29:01] <awallin> pirate-party voted into parlament in GER it seems :)
[20:29:18] <FinboySlick> awallin: They have majority yet? ;)
[20:29:29] <awallin> 9% says the news
[20:29:36] <FinboySlick> Wow, that's pretty good.
[20:29:52] <FinboySlick> The times, they are a-changin' it seems.
[20:30:05] <Tom_itx> everywhere
[20:30:09] <awallin> hm 9% in Berlin region. maybe. anyone from GER here?
[20:30:19] * FinboySlick goes to play some Bob Dylan.
[20:34:46] * capricorn_one is back.
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[21:09:21] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what was that ngc thing for code generation?
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[21:12:14] <FinboySlick> I think I got my answer as far as jog and acceleration. Doc says: "If a jog would pass the soft limit, it is terminated at the soft limit." Which sugests that EMC will start decelerating *after* the soft limit.
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[21:38:56] <cradek_> FinboySlick: no, it will come to a stop at the limit
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[21:39:23] <FinboySlick> cradek: Not in my experience, unless I set something wrong.
[21:39:43] <FinboySlick> If I go slowly enough, yeah, it stops at the limit. If I go faster, it stops past it.
[21:40:14] <cradek> do you mean the mechanism travels too far, or do you mean the commanded value as shown on the screen goes too far?
[21:40:16] <FinboySlick> I assume that might have to do with the max accel param?
[21:41:02] <FinboySlick> cradek: I mean if I hold the x axis jog until it reaches the end of its travel range, it will overshoot if I was jogging too fast.
[21:41:18] <cradek> I still don't know what you mean by that
[21:41:37] <cradek> do you understand my question?
[21:43:21] <FinboySlick> cradek: If I set movement to 'continuous' in Axis. Then press the 'left' key to move the x axis to the left until I hit +150mm (which is what I set as a limit), it will physically go past 150mm.
[21:43:49] <FinboySlick> And bump into its hard limit.
[21:43:56] <FinboySlick> (as in hardware going clunk)
[21:43:59] <cradek> does the number on the screen go past 150?
[21:44:49] <FinboySlick> cradek: I don't recall (tested this a while back before I set the speed limit low enough that it wouldn't overshoot). I suspect it didn't.
[21:45:03] <cradek> I'm trying to ask you to discern between slop in the hardware and an overshoot in emc's commanded position
[21:45:13] <cradek> emc will not command a position outside the soft limits
[21:45:58] <FinboySlick> cradek: Oh I'm sure EMC didn't command anything past its limit. I'm just wondering if it took time to decelerate before hitting the limit.
[21:46:06] <cradek> but if your hardware is sloppy in various ways, including mechanically, or in the PID tuning on a servo system, the actual position may be different from the commanded/desired position by an arbitrary amount
[21:46:30] <FinboySlick> cradek: It's a stepper setup, no feedback.
[21:46:50] <cradek> yes, emc's commanded position will NEVER exceed the constraints you configure
[21:47:25] <cradek> that means that to stop at a certain position, it has to decelerate when coming up to it
[21:47:48] <FinboySlick> cradek: Yes, that bit I understand. I was just wondering if it did so while jogging because it didn't seem to.
[21:48:13] <cradek> it does
[21:48:20] <cradek> you can verify that using halscope
[21:48:39] <cradek> you could plot the position and velocity
[21:48:42] <FinboySlick> cradek: So most likely I didn't set my max accel parameter low enough.
[21:48:57] <cradek> yes that could be it
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[21:50:26] <FinboySlick> It seems to do fine when I feed it gcode however.
[21:51:35] <FinboySlick> cradek: I'm assuming this has a lot to do with rotational inertia on the ballscrew, couplings and rotor.
[21:51:45] <cradek> if you're in G64 mode, the acceleration when running gcode is (often) half that of your configured value, which is what jogging uses
[21:52:04] <cradek> so you might be seeing higher accel when jogging, even though that accel is below your configured number
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[21:52:53] <FinboySlick> That's a bit worrysome, I set accel to manufacturer's recommended 'if you don't know what you're doing' setting.
[21:53:35] <cradek> it can be hard to pick the best accel.
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[21:55:38] <skunkworks_> milling milling milling
[21:55:51] <FinboySlick> cradek: I'm trying to get my machine to work around 100ipm. Manufacturer claims 200ipm capabilities. Any hints on getting this right? Measure g0 moves for inaccuracy?
[21:57:54] <FinboySlick> Maybe do a full speed back and forth for a few inches, stopping at a specific dial indicator value and see if I always get the same result.
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[22:26:08] <FinboySlick> Nope, that test worked fine. g0 x10, g0 x30 ... g0 x90, g0 x0... And it was back to the exact same spot.
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[22:52:19] <FinboySlick> http://imagebin.org/173006
[22:52:35] <FinboySlick> I shouldn't have fed the tool so much material.
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[23:22:54] <skunkworks_> wow - I am suprised you didn't break a tool
[23:23:08] <skunkworks_> FinboySlick: what is the machine?
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