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[00:00:09] <andypugh> (ways to work with really tiny stuff)
[00:01:17] <andypugh> The "Link 860 EPMA" was actually a microvax in disguise, and might well still be there.
[00:03:57] <andypugh> Ooh
[00:03:57] <andypugh>
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[00:04:23] <andypugh> I have been cited! I didn't know that :-)
[00:04:41] <archivist> springer wants money to download!
[00:05:14] <andypugh> The first page is there to read. It was only two pages.
[00:05:38] <archivist> I did read the first page
[00:07:16] <andypugh> So, I managed to make 100um x 75um glass cylinders by mechanical means, then erdoed them (rather roughly) to 400nm thickness.
[00:08:34] <andypugh> The mounting in wax to grind part seems similar to watchmaking practice. (though I didn't know that back in 1993)
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[00:09:22] <archivist> wax or shellac
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[00:10:22] <andypugh> (I was the very first paper of 1993, which was nice. It means that I am the first page of the bound volumes :-)
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[00:11:52] <archivist> Ive been trying to find a paper/report I did
[00:13:20] <andypugh> I had the misfortune to spend my academic career well funded by sponsors (as the gov't wanted) who demanded confidentiality until long after I has lost interest.
[00:14:46] <andypugh> Which is partly why I left academia, my publication record was very poor _because_ I was working in relevant fields. Ironic, really.
[00:17:18] <archivist> mine was for microprocessor choice for a fast maths job
[00:19:07] <archivist> buried in
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details.mvc/Collection/?iAID=865 probably
[00:27:37] <Jymmm> andypugh: 400nm thickness?! Heh, the only I've dealt with in that arena is 540nm wavelengths =)
[00:28:16] <andypugh> It is quite small.
[00:28:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ya think?! lol
[00:28:36] <andypugh> Got me PhD :-)
[00:29:23] <Jymmm> andypugh: There ya go! Just got me playing with missiles for the guberment *shrug*
[00:30:04] <Jymmm> oh, and counter-defense systems.
[00:34:30] <alex4nder> get'
[00:34:32] <alex4nder> er hey
[00:34:34] <A2Sheds> andypugh: 400nm by what length? I've been printing self assembling silica nanoparticles in the 200nm range
[00:35:37] <andypugh> A2Sheds: 400nm was the length. Diameter 100um
[00:35:49] <andypugh> (short cylinders)
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[00:36:39] <A2Sheds> short cylinder = disc?
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[01:07:43] <andypugh> Yes.
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[01:08:24] <andypugh> I was going to try to get to sleep early tonight, for an early start tomorrow. That didn't work out, then.
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[01:10:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: 14 espressos and you wont' even have to go to sleep
[01:10:56] <andypugh> It isn't tonight that bothers me, it's the 300 mile drive tomorrow night.
[01:11:25] <Jymmm> ewwwww
[01:11:31] <Jymmm> unless you like to drive that is
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[01:15:12] <andypugh> Yes and no. The point of the trip is to bounce around a private forest on my enduro bike. I like that part. I would be happier if the forest was nearer.
[01:15:42] <jdhNC> move?
[01:16:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: 300miles on a motorcross, I don't think so! Goldwing, sure =)
[01:16:47] <andypugh> No, the long trip is by van
[01:17:06] <Jymmm> wuss! ;)
[01:17:20] <andypugh> jdhNC: If I moved, I would have a longer commute to work.
[01:17:28] <Tom_itx> griping cause he has to drive to go play
[01:17:30] <Tom_itx> !
[01:17:54] <Jymmm> When we rode through the mnts, ~30mile road. you feel it in your back big time.
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[01:19:01] <Jymmm> nice windy (wine-dee) road
[01:19:17] <jdhNC> I drive 515miles each way to play 6 or 8 times a year
[01:19:18] <andypugh> I feel it in the legs. The seat of an enduro bike bike it just padding so it doesn't injure your parts. You aren't meant to sit on it!
[01:20:12] <Jymmm> like when riding a horse?
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[01:29:46] <andypugh> Very much the same. Except the bike isn't _actively_ trying to kill you. And horses don't do 70mph.
[01:29:58] <Jymmm> lol
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[01:31:27] <Jymmm> andypugh: I much prefer full dress and throttle lock tyvm =)
[01:31:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: and drink holder, can't forget that
[01:34:15] <andypugh> Onbike footage (byteage?) from last year's event:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjKeuGA3j9M
[01:35:53] <Jymmm> that your helmetcam?
[01:37:54] <andypugh> No, just something I found on Youtube from another competitor. It all looks familar though . :-)
[01:38:19] <Jymmm> heh, I thought the terrain was MUCH rougher than that.
[01:38:28] <Jymmm> nobbies?
[01:38:49] <Tom_itx> k
[01:38:52] <andypugh> it feels rougher. How far in have you watched?
[01:39:01] <Jymmm> about 5m
[01:39:29] <andypugh> OK, so onto the narrow stuff.
[01:39:36] <andypugh> It's not motocross,
[01:40:00] <Jymmm> Well, I was thinking like 10% grade hills and such
[01:40:06] <andypugh> But you are doing 100 miles a day.
[01:40:46] <andypugh> There are some 25% gradients, the helmet cam hides them.
[01:41:01] <Jymmm> eeesh
[01:41:23] <andypugh> Down too (up is easy!)
[01:42:27] <andypugh> 4:13 was a real "hang on to the bars" hill.
[01:43:06] <andypugh> I ended that section with hands that were curling up into fists without my control.
[01:44:39] <jdhNC> the "enduro" part is for "eduring pain"?
[01:45:29] <andypugh> The 6:36 hill is tricky, I get up there about 60% of the time without losing it. It's _very_ steep.
[01:46:49] <andypugh> But, time to sleep.
[01:46:55] <jdhNC> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbRlACyP7Aw
[01:47:03] <jdhNC> that's a more relaxing trip
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[01:48:24] <andypugh> That's not UK cave diving, I know that much. You can see your own hands
[01:48:24] <snowman_> I'm new to emc, I'm using it in lathe mode, is there any free software that can output gcode in lathe mode
[01:48:48] <snowman_> I have been using cambam but the output comes out backwards
[01:48:50] <jdhNC> and compared to .uk caving, much warmer water
[01:49:48] <snowman_> andy what was the name of the add on for emc you told me about a few day ago?
[01:50:03] <andypugh> I have done a huge amount of caving (used to do it twice during the week and most weekends) a very small amount of diving and no cave diving other than snorkel peyotes in Mexico.
[01:50:23] <andypugh> snowman_: ngcgui?
[01:50:30] <snowman_> thanks
[01:51:59] <jdhNC> I dive offshore here on weekends and caves whenever I can get way for 3+ days
[01:52:04] <andypugh> snowman_: As an alternative, there is my lathe macro setup;
http://www.bodgesoc.org/lathe/lathe.html
[01:53:32] <andypugh> UK cave diving is hardcore. I don't think any of them do it for fun. it's always about finding more cave. Cold water, zero viz, and often very, very, deep.
[01:54:09] <jdhNC> they come over here for fun diving
[01:54:28] <andypugh> Hard to calculate the profile when nobody has ever been there before..
[01:55:39] <andypugh> I found a lovely clear sump in the wall of a boulder choke once. Only once, the choke moved and I never found it again.
[01:56:03] <andypugh> Right, night all.
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[07:28:59] <RyanS> http://tiny.cc/msma3 are the patterns on th milled surface evidence of a misaligned spindle, or not cleaning it up with a face mill?
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[07:37:58] <archivist> there is always a pattern, visibility varies with direction and quality of the machine, cutter and cut increment per rev/tooth
[07:39:09] <archivist> and no need to avoid for many applications
[07:40:26] <RyanS> ok, I guess applications that need it use precision grinders and so forth
[07:49:39] <Valen> heres a question, how would you go about making a flat section of 3mm plate
[07:49:46] <Valen> going to get bolted onto a shaft
[07:49:55] <Valen> plate is 200mm across
[07:55:39] <archivist> make! just go and buy some plate
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[07:56:24] <Valen> not flat enough
[07:56:54] <archivist> gauge plate
[07:57:41] <Valen> ahh also its aluminium
[07:58:08] <archivist> they do aluminium gauge plate too
[07:59:34] <archivist> and your fastening needs to not bend the plate
[08:04:24] <Valen> 6 bolt circle
[08:05:50] <archivist> that should dish it nicely
[08:06:07] <Valen> doesn't seem to
[08:06:13] <Valen> just has a wobble
[08:06:19] <Valen> eh its all done now anyway
[08:06:30] <Valen> i'd better pull my finger out and make it spin at the right speed
[08:06:39] <archivist> is there a clamping disk to spread the clamp force
[08:06:45] <Valen> no room
[08:06:54] <Valen> its over thickness as it is
[08:07:09] <Valen> its also not done up tight
[08:07:15] <Valen> finger tight
[08:08:02] <archivist> the bolts can/will expand the metal without load spreading
[08:08:18] <RyanS> use titanium plate?
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[08:08:46] <Valen> i'm thinking that would be a second order effect in comparison to everything else given the torque
[08:08:56] <Valen> its just enough to hold it on
[08:09:12] <Valen> and the wobble is the same for 2 bolts or all 6
[08:09:57] <archivist> also clear thread near hole exit to stop lift around the hole
[08:09:58] <Valen> anyway I was mainly curious as to how you would achieve it rather than how to fix what i have done ;->
[08:10:05] <RyanS> weld it or braze perhaps .. I wonder if that would work
[08:10:37] <archivist> machine to thickness after mounting
[08:10:43] <Valen> heat would distort it a whole bunch
[08:10:50] <Valen> tried that
[08:10:54] <Valen> rang like a bell
[08:11:18] <archivist> I use fingers to cure the singing
[08:11:31] <archivist> and change tooling
[08:12:03] <Valen> i think its just that its a 200mm wide, disk thats rather thin with a fairly small mount
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[08:14:03] <archivist> I have machined disks needs sharper tooling and the rake must not pull or push the metal stating the resonance
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[08:20:15] <RyanS> What's it for? an axle?
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[08:28:43] <Tom_itx> Valen, use a vacuum fixture
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[11:46:47] <Valen> anybody have a sample of gcode handy
[11:46:56] <Valen> like the emc2.3 axis demo?
[11:47:02] <jthornton> sure
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[11:47:31] <Valen> just wanting to show somebody what G code is
[11:49:15] <Valen> jthornton: url?
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[11:50:21] <jthornton> you can drill down from here
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb
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[12:00:25] <psha[work]> is there web interface for this channel
[12:00:26] <psha[work]> ?
[12:01:04] <jthornton> on the emc web site
[12:01:13] <archivist> yes on linuxcnc.org somewhere
[12:01:34] <psha[work]> thanks for the tip!
[12:01:41] <jthornton> the communities page I think
[12:01:49] <psha[work]> that's better :)
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[12:04:01] <psha[web]> пыщпыщ
[12:04:08] <psha[work]> wow
[12:04:10] <psha[work]> working :)
[12:04:16] <psha[work]> even strange charsets :)
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[12:31:13] <piasdom> hello all
[12:31:36] <psha[work]> рш
[12:31:37] <psha[work]> hi
[12:32:20] <psha[work]> piasdom: have you tried examples?
[12:32:58] <piasdom> psha[work]: couldn't find any tah show pin connection
[12:33:55] <psha[work]> piasdom: configs/gladevcp/helloWorld
[12:34:46] <piasdom> psha[work]: you meant in a file i should have. no i didn't look there. going look
[12:35:11] <psha[work]> there is README with instructions how to use it
[12:35:20] <psha[work]> or you may just start it by hand and take a look
[12:39:33] <piasdom> psha[work]: i don't have ANY glade files in any of the folders
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[12:46:27] <piasdom> found some in configs/share/emc....but it's a .glade extention and glade can't open it
[12:47:07] <piasdom> oops that emc2-dev
[12:48:38] <Loetmichel> *HATE IT* The only reason the CNC computer has a usbfloppy: to get data on int in PCNC(Dos) mode... and now the bios-usb-interrup tangles up the movements with PCNC-dos... *GREAT* :-(
[12:50:41] <psha[work]> .ui
[12:50:45] <psha[work]> piasdom: .ui
[12:50:57] <psha[work]> are also glade files
[12:52:39] <piasdom> psha[work]: NO files in configs/gladevcp/
[12:52:54] <psha[work]> emc2-dev?
[12:53:30] <piasdom> i used galde to open the files, and i selected glade file and all files. no ui or glade
[12:53:43] <psha[work]> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=tree;f=configs/gladevcp;h=2fc262914684ba01494bae96d752868cd24c82f0;hb=v2.5_branch
[12:53:52] <piasdom> yesyes
[12:53:56] <psha[work]> configs/gladevcp/helloWorld
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[12:54:25] <psha[work]> three files - hw.ui (GUI layout) hw.hal (HAL connections) and README
[12:56:30] <piasdom> psha[work]: none
[12:56:53] <psha[work]> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=tree;f=configs/gladevcp/helloWorld;h=4e580e2ae0e164b664aceb2af29e6344fda04b8a;hb=v2.5_branch
[12:57:06] <psha[work]> v2.5_branch (and master) both have 3 files in that dir
[12:57:13] <psha[work]> probably you have too old emc2-dev?
[12:57:21] <psha[work]> then you need to update it
[12:57:36] <piasdom> psha[work]: i ran glade from terminal(glade hw.ui) and it says failed to load external library
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[12:58:04] <piasdom> psha[work]: shows 2.5 in axis
[12:58:27] <psha[work]> have you sourced emc-environment?
[12:58:47] <piasdom> psha[work]: guess not
[12:59:01] <piasdom> psha[work]: didn't know about that
[12:59:40] <psha[work]> if you run RIP (run-in-place) setup you always have to do '. path-to-emc2-dev/scripts/emc-environment'
[13:00:03] <psha[work]> both for running emc and glade
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[13:03:57] <piasdom> psha[work]: i did ./ then 'path' and got no such file. but i see it in the folder
[13:04:22] <piasdom> psha[work]: and i'm in that dir
[13:04:24] <psha[work]> . (dot) means that you want to include script file in current shell environment
[13:04:30] <psha[work]> not ./
[13:04:32] <psha[work]> just .
[13:04:48] <jdhNC> or . ./
[13:05:13] <psha[work]> jdhNC: what's purpose of including directory?
[13:05:22] <psha[work]> syntax is '. path/filename'
[13:05:51] <jdhNC> to make shell syntax look more perl like
[13:06:01] <Loetmichel> hmmm... is there a tool/plugin for EMC2 to work with HPGL-files like in PCNC-Dos?
[13:06:01] <piasdom> psha[work]: i got it, at least it didn't give error :)
[13:06:22] <Loetmichel> as in: on the fly managing of tooldepths and so on?
[13:06:38] <Loetmichel> so i can kick out the PCNC-DOS entirely?
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[13:11:56] <piasdom_> psha[work]: when i try to open emx2 with glade in the ini, i get missing handlers
[13:12:18] <psha[work]> non critical
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[13:12:42] <archivist> Loetmichel,
http://www.metalgeek.com/archives/2004/06/03/000028.php
[13:12:47] <piasdom_> psha[work]: show my glade buttons but says no handlers but emc doesn't open
[13:13:06] <psha[work]> show me whole command
[13:13:10] <psha[work]> copy it here
[13:13:56] <piasdom_> psha[work]: you mean to open emc...i use an icon
[13:14:37] <psha[work]> icon, so let's assume you are running emc2 from RIP env
[13:14:38] <piasdom_> psha[work]: also says gladevcp.Red_led doesn't exist
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[13:15:02] <psha[work]> do you have widget with name 'Red_led' in glade (or .ui) file?
[13:15:12] <piasdom_> want me to start from terminal ?
[13:15:13] <piasdom_> yes
[13:15:22] <psha[work]> HAL 'net' command must be placed in POSTGUI hal file
[13:15:31] <piasdom_> it is
[13:15:35] <psha[work]> since untill gui is loaded there is no such pin
[13:17:00] <piasdom_> psha[work]: net glade-led gladevcp.Run_leds halui halui.estop.is-activated
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[13:17:20] <psha[work]> what's "halui" in that line?
[13:17:32] <psha[work]> syntax is 'net signal-name pin0 pin1 pin2 ....'
[13:17:37] <psha[work]> do you have 'halui' pin?
[13:17:46] <piasdom_> looking
[13:17:51] <psha[work]> i bet no
[13:17:57] <psha[work]> halui is component name...
[13:18:41] <piasdom_> in ini i have HALUI = halui That >
[13:19:43] <piasdom_> there's a list of halui pins in axis
[13:21:11] <psha[work]> also do you have Run_leds or Red_led?
[13:22:08] <piasdom_> it's Run_led, mistyped
[13:22:37] <psha[work]> but you have Run_leds in hal file
[13:25:01] <piasdom_> you are right emc starts but the panel is not to the side
[13:27:41] <piasdom_> in the postgui_halfile i added the complete path to the hal file...says can't open now
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[13:34:19] <psha[work]> is not to the side = it's missing?
[13:34:22] <psha[work]> it's somewhere else?
[13:34:34] <psha[work]> have you added GLADEVCP clause in .ini file?
[13:37:52] <piasdom_> yes GLADEVCP = path
[13:41:27] <piasdom_> now i have emc opening with the glade file, and the led goes on/off but only in the pyvcp panel
[13:42:07] <psha[work]> pyvcp led?
[13:42:13] <psha[work]> or gladevcp led?
[13:42:18] <piasdom_> useing both.....tab(side of dro) and side panel
[13:42:56] <piasdom_> i have the glade in the tab and pyvcp of the side and trying to get glade on the side
[13:43:54] <piasdom_> the glade tab,,,the estop,start.run buttons work no leds
[13:44:53] <piasdom_> too many aps ?
[13:45:01] <psha[work]> no
[13:45:17] <psha[work]> copy your GLADEVCP var here
[13:45:24] <piasdom_> i had all three before but can't get it back
[13:45:29] <piasdom_> k
[13:45:51] <piasdom_> pastebin ?
[13:45:58] <psha[work]> one var
[13:46:00] <psha[work]> not whole config
[13:46:06] <piasdom_> where is the var file ?
[13:46:16] <psha[work]> .ini file
[13:46:28] <psha[work]> line with GLADEVCP variable
[13:46:31] <psha[work]> GLADEVCP=....
[13:46:40] <piasdom_> [DISPLAY] DISPLAY = axis EDITOR = gedit PYVCP = MyVCP.xml EMBED_TAB_NAME = Jog Axis GLADEVCP = /home/mill/emc2/configs/MyFolder/Glade.ui GLADEVCP = -u ../gladevcp/hitcounter.py ../gladevcp/manual-example.ui EMBED_TAB_COMMAND=halcmd loadusr -Wn gladevcp gladevcp -x {XID} /home/mill/emc2/configs/MyFolder/Glade.ui
[13:48:18] <psha[work]> you have two gladevcp lines
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[13:49:14] <piasdom_> thought that was ok
[13:50:11] <piasdom_> i took the default out and still no side panel
[13:52:34] <psha[work]> heh, then it's time to pastebin .ini file :)
[13:52:44] <piasdom_> k
[13:53:43] <piasdom_> http://pastebin.com/adQM6icH
[13:55:15] <Loetmichel> archivist: a little simple...
[13:55:45] <archivist> Loetmichel, a starting point for you to add to :)
[13:57:05] <Loetmichel> archivist: the problem: i want to be able to change tool depths and so on in the run, sop a new "compile" hpgl to gcode would be a pain in the A**
[13:57:29] <Loetmichel> so i think it have to be a new interpreter rather than a converter
[13:58:05] <archivist> starting with hpgl seems to be the mistake
[13:58:34] <Loetmichel> anyways: got the nex CPU running with EMC2: (just have to look for the Limit switches, will do now...) ->
http://www.cyrom.org/pce/emc_running_new_cpu.avi
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[13:59:50] <psha[work]> piasdom_: do you have that file? ../gladevcp/manual-example.ui
[13:59:50] <psha[work]> ?
[14:00:17] <psha[work]> if your config is located not in emc2-dev/configs/*/ then you won't get this path
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[14:01:07] <piasdom_> psha[work]: did search...no luck
[14:01:15] <Loetmichel> anyways: got the nex CPU running with EMC2: (just have to look for the Limit switches, will do now...) ->
http://www.cyrom.org/pce/emc_running_new_cpu.avi
[14:01:52] <piasdom_> psha[work]: so i should take it out of MyFloder and move the filed to config ?
[14:02:16] <Loetmichel> s/nex/new
[14:04:17] <Loetmichel> hmmm, anyone thinks i can run PCNCdos in a Dosemu? so i can run the old HPGLfiles in pcnc and the new Gcode in EMC2 without rebooting?
[14:04:18] <piasdom_> psha[work]: i tried /home/mill/emc2-dev/configs/postguivcp.hal and it can't open the file
[14:05:27] <piasdom_> psha[work]: but if i just use postgui_halfile = postguivcp.hal it opens
[14:06:04] <piasdom_> psha[work]: sorry enclude myfolder
[14:07:01] <Jymmm> check perms?
[14:07:59] <Jymmm> are those two files the same?
[14:09:07] <psha[work]> hm, we need proper example for gladevcp panel in place of pyvcp one...
[14:09:24] <psha[work]> it's too easy to mess with paths/hal files/ui files...
[14:10:30] <psha[work]> piasdom_: i'll put example in the evening
[14:10:42] <psha[work]> evening = evening in MSK timezone
[14:10:57] <psha[work]> GMT+43
[14:11:00] <psha[work]> GMT+4
[14:11:20] <piasdom_> psha[work]: cool thanks....so my ini is ok ?
[14:11:52] <psha[work]> heh
[14:11:53] <psha[work]> it's ok
[14:11:56] <psha[work]> but paths are not :)
[14:13:39] <piasdom_> psha[work]: thanks...i'll work on dat.....THANKS
[14:13:47] <psha[work]> time to go home
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[14:23:33] <piasdom_> well,nite nite all !!
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[14:51:36] <grommit> Nothing happens (no window opens) when I click Machine -> Show Hal Configuration in Axis. How can I debug why?
[14:52:30] <skunkworks> grommit: how is it going? (and I don't know why your halshow doesn't work..
[14:52:45] <grommit> Hi Skunkworks. it is going better
[14:52:54] <grommit> Yesterday I had a major malfunction
[14:53:03] <grommit> But got it figured out and am back on track
[14:53:18] <skunkworks> are there any sample configs that work (to see if halshow works in them)
[14:53:36] <grommit> good idea, I'll try that.
[14:55:05] <skunkworks> what was the malfunction?
[14:55:41] <grommit> I don't know if you recall, but someone was pointing out the flaw in the ESTOP circuit we were using?
[14:56:54] <skunkworks> hmm - no
[14:56:58] <skunkworks> I would have to read back
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[14:57:24] <grommit> Well, we are using a mechanical estop circuit from the Gecko web site.
[14:58:50] <grommit> There is a flaw in it, wherein if the momentary switch in the circuit is held down (or a short causes it to look like it is held down), then the dump circuit (that dumps the power supply capacitors) will be engaged while the power supply is on
[14:59:06] <skunkworks> oopss
[14:59:22] <grommit> To make a long story short if it is held in you will fry the powersupply or dump circuit, or worse...
[15:00:15] <grommit> We knew that was an issue and were going to fix it, but we had a recessed momentary switch that is in an out of the way place so we didn't really worry about it much
[15:00:42] <grommit> Well, yesterday, the switch happened to get stuck in!
[15:01:01] <grommit> I didn't notice it until I started smelling/seeing smoke.
[15:01:56] <grommit> So......after figuring out what caused it (several hours of debugging - not thinking the switch was stuck - you know how that goes), we decided to actually fix it ;-)
[15:01:57] <skunkworks> ecky
[15:02:20] <grommit> Turns out the fix is quite easy.
[15:02:27] <grommit> Anyway, that wasted a day.
[15:02:33] <skunkworks> been there
[15:05:10] <grommit> Too bad Jymmm isn't around so he can say "I told you so" :-)
[15:05:21] <jdhNC> I told you so.
[15:05:27] <grommit> thanks
[15:05:29] <grommit> :-)
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[15:11:58] <grommit> Hmm, I was running Axis for a while and quit to try one of the sample configs and now it won't start again. I get: insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai/modules/emc2/hm2_7i43.ko': -1 Resource temporarily unavailable.
[15:12:55] <grommit> dmesg shows [ 3484.233123] hm2: loading Mesa HostMot2 driver version 0.15
[15:12:57] <grommit> [ 3484.246460] hm2_7i43: loading HostMot2 Mesa 7i43 driver version 0.3
[15:12:59] <grommit> [ 3484.246478] PARPORT: ERROR: port parport0 claim failed
[15:13:16] <psha> something is still using your parport
[15:13:20] <psha> check process list
[15:14:15] <grommit> how can I tell what it is specifically?
[15:15:09] <grommit> lots of processes running...
[15:16:10] <jdhNC> fuser maybe?
[15:17:23] <psha> fuser if it's something from userspace
[15:17:30] <psha> otherwise check list of loaded modules
[15:17:42] <grommit> a2ms@Klaatu:~$ ps aux | grep fuser
[15:17:44] <grommit> a2ms 5977 0.0 0.0 3320 804 pts/0 S+ 11:16 0:00 grep --color=auto fuser
[15:17:46] <grommit> a2ms@Klaatu:~$
[15:18:04] <grommit> how to check list of loaded modules?
[15:18:30] <psha> lsmod
[15:18:34] <psha> fuser /dev/parport0
[15:18:52] <grommit> nothing is returned
[15:19:59] <psha> lsmod?
[15:20:09] <psha> look for suspicious modules like hm2_
[15:21:18] <grommit> nope, nothing hm2*
[15:21:32] <grommit> parport 30764 3 ppdev,parport_pc,lp
[15:22:03] <grommit> parport_pc 25637 2
[15:22:36] <psha> what's in dmesg?
[15:23:05] <grommit> mainly just this: PARPORT: ERROR: port parport0 claim failed
[15:25:10] <Loetmichel> *HA* got it running! Even the reference switches... ->
http://www.cyrom.org/pce/emc_running_new_cpu2.avi
[15:25:19] <grommit> full dmesg output:
http://pastebin.com/T1ckvAvy
[15:29:53] <psha> [ 2544.192939] PARPORT: ERROR: request_region(0x1000) failed
[15:30:06] <psha> maybe this...
[15:30:29] <grommit> what does it mean, and how can I get by it?
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[15:32:45] <psha> don't know )
[15:32:59] <grommit> reboot, i guess ;-(
[15:33:08] <grommit> hate that
[15:39:06] <grommit> psha: do you know why I wouldn't be able to bring up Show Hal Configuration while running Axis? Or where I would look to see what is happening when I try it?
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[15:41:40] <psha> hm, something defenitely should go into console
[15:45:05] <grommit> ok, sorry to ask a stupid question...but is there a console app in ubuntu, or do the messages go to /var/log/messages?
[15:50:20] <psha> yes, there is console app )
[15:50:40] <psha> /var/log/* is (usually) place for messages sent using syslog
[15:50:58] <psha> console means something that was printed to standard output/error strams
[15:51:00] <psha> streams
[15:51:20] <psha> if app is started from GUI theese streams are lost
[15:51:22] <skunkworks> grommit: if you start emc from a terminal - lots of times errors get sent to it..
[15:51:38] <skunkworks> (open terminal and type emc)
[15:51:45] <skunkworks> for installed emc
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[15:54:30] <grommit> ok, thanks. I will try it. first have to reboot to see if parport error goes away...
[15:54:39] <grommit> bbl
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[16:00:45] <grommit> ok, got interesting output
http://pastebin.com/seK6ZqMF (for Show Hal Config)... not sure what I means though.
[16:03:57] <grommit> I can run Show Hal Configuration from other configs though. Must be something in my config... hmm....
[16:05:00] <skunkworks> ah - could it be hal show doesn't work with aliases?
[16:05:18] <grommit> aliases?
[16:05:56] <skunkworks> just randomly throwing that out there. The pnc config uses aliases (renames the pins so the make more sense) If I understand it right
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[16:09:39] <grommit> there are a bunch of alias statements in my hal config: alias pin pid.0.deadband pid.x.deadband
[16:10:12] <grommit> I don't see these names used anywhere though. Not sure what the all the aliases do for me...
[16:11:52] <Loetmichel> just a quick question before i go searching in the manuals: is there a possibility to config ONE pin as "power down" for the steppers?
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[16:12:20] <Loetmichel> i.e. Current reduction if all axis ar stopped for 1s or so?
[16:12:47] <skunkworks> grommit: just to make things more user readable. (X instead of ))
[16:12:52] <skunkworks> grommit: just to make things more user readable. (X instead of 0)
[16:14:01] <grommit> As I say, I don't see any of the aliases actually used anywhere in my config, so I will comment them out and see what happens.
[16:16:22] <grommit> Well, nope that did do it...
[16:17:15] <skunkworks> hmm it does sound like it is something to do with your configs though...
[16:18:32] <grommit> yes
[16:18:36] <grommit> looking
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[16:24:22] <archivist> Loetmichel, normally you dont want to do that because the steppers can lose position
[16:24:56] <Loetmichel> archivist: power dreduction, noch power loss ;-)
[16:24:58] <Loetmichel> -d
[16:25:37] <Loetmichel> the drivers i have can reduce the current to 1/4 if pin17 of the lpt goes high
[16:26:40] <Loetmichel> -> much cooler motors and no annoying white noise from the motors in idle ;-)
[16:27:38] <archivist> and NO guarantee that the reduction keeps position
[16:28:16] <Loetmichel> archivist: every gurantee
[16:28:36] <archivist> prove it
[16:28:42] <Loetmichel> my machine is so small, it even holds position without power
[16:29:15] <Loetmichel> the pin should only go high if ALL axes are stopped!
[16:29:18] <archivist> stepper inherently god to the nearest magnetic pole
[16:29:35] <archivist> steppers inherently cog to the nearest magnetic pole
[16:29:38] <Loetmichel> so no external firces other than gravity-> no step loss
[16:29:57] <archivist> the force is in the stepper
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[16:30:18] <Loetmichel> archivist: so what? the drivers can only do halfstep, so no problem if the power is reduced
[16:30:27] <Loetmichel> it still holds position
[16:30:46] <archivist> they can move half a step to the nearest pole
[16:31:08] <archivist> when power resumes which should they jump to
[16:31:11] <Loetmichel> maybe it diferts 1/8 of a step or so, but with power returning to full this will be corrected also
[16:31:35] <Loetmichel> they CANT move 1/2 a step
[16:32:53] <Loetmichel> maximum is if they are on a halfstep and the power is reduced to 1/4 it will rotate about 1/8 of a step, maybe 1/4.
[16:33:08] <Loetmichel> and if the power comes back it will go back to where it was
[16:36:20] <Loetmichel> only moment it can move a full half step is when the power is completely gone
[16:37:29] <Loetmichel> and even then if the power comes back like it was it will revert to the old state, 'cause the NEXT fitting step to the power pattern will be 3 steps away
[16:38:14] <archivist> rethink about all possible step positions
[16:40:57] <Loetmichel> archivist: anyway: is there such a thing as preconfigured power reduction wich i can patch to a pin?
[16:41:45] <grommit> Offending line in my hal config: loadrt abs names=
[16:42:18] <grommit> if I comment this out, or change it to: loadrt abs (without the "names="), Show Hal Config comes up fine.
[16:42:46] <grommit> This is a remnant put in by the latest PNCCONF
[16:43:57] <cncbasher> gromit > change to loadrt abs names=abs.spindle
[16:44:38] <archivist> Loetmichel, Im not sure there is any support for power reduction apart for the enable which is set on power on
[16:45:58] <Loetmichel> that is a pity... so i have to live with the annoying noise
[16:46:32] <grommit> cncbasher: that works too
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[16:52:37] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: And neighbours?
[16:53:07] <Loetmichel> ?
[16:53:42] <Loetmichel> the noise is pretty close to white noise (from the motors)... nothing which can penetrate a wall
[16:54:22] <Loetmichel> (like a open water tap the next room)
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[17:03:57] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: oh, I doubtfully believe
[17:04:24] <IG-garage> ewwwwwddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddp[[[[[[[[;;; - my cat writes
[17:04:48] <Loetmichel> hihi
[17:04:54] <Loetmichel> i will not have a pet...
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[17:05:30] <Loetmichel> to much swarf and "dead bug" ICs around here on the floor ;-)
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[17:05:48] <Loetmichel> hihi, there his cat has hit the powrbutton ;-)
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[17:08:02] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: with such a noise from your devices, pet would feel uncomfortable
[17:09:02] <Loetmichel> [19:05:02] * IG-garage (~ig@unaffiliated/mazafaka) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:09:02] <Loetmichel> [19:05:26] <Loetmichel> to much swarf and "dead bug" ICs around here on the floor ;-)
[17:09:02] <Loetmichel> [19:05:30] * sumpfralle1 (~lars@31-16-112-145-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:09:02] <Loetmichel> [19:05:44] <Loetmichel> hihi, there his cat has hit the powrbutton ;-)
[17:10:10] <IG-garage> well, laptop has told of battery discharge on AC power
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[17:23:03] <motioncontrol> mhaberler_, good evening, have some news for iov2 correct procedure tool change ?
[17:23:18] <mhaberler_> ok
[17:23:27] <mhaberler_> what's the news?
[17:25:22] <motioncontrol> mhaberler_, you speack me some week before, you correct iov2 because not fuction good in actual development version remember ?
[17:25:38] <mhaberler_> sure
[17:26:50] <motioncontrol> have some news for it or want some week for finisch complete debug ?
[17:27:46] <mhaberler_> you mean the tool change by o-word procedures, wether that's done?
[17:28:20] <mhaberler_> that really has nothing to do with iov2
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[17:29:17] <motioncontrol> mhaberler_, lo sviluppo di o-words in iov2 è finito ?
[17:29:51] <mhaberler_> no, I'm not finished - I'm working a lot on it; and again - that has nothing to do with iov2
[17:30:01] <mhaberler_> it will be a few weeks left I guess
[17:30:07] <IG-garage> dio mio! Cosa-Nostra! SATA!
[17:30:33] <motioncontrol> mhaberler_, ok thanks i wait it thanks for your support
[17:30:56] <mhaberler_> thanks for the patience.. it turned out a fairly big task
[17:31:23] <motioncontrol> yes i thing it complex, but is very powerful idea
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[17:52:00] <Loetmichel> *GRIN* unbelieveable! One CAn run PCNC-dos in Dosemu under ubuntu... only with 2mm/s until now but if i tweak it here and there... :-)))))
[17:56:55] <Loetmichel> ... and the whole thing controlled via VNC from a windows machine ;-) ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12298
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[18:28:24] <Jymmm> JT-Shop:
http://www.man-cans.com
[18:28:27] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xSfNyotlqA
[18:28:59] <Jymmm> love the disclaimer
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[18:29:37] <Jymmm> The server might be overloaded, was just on a TV show.
[18:31:30] <JT-Shop> they don't have "wet dog" what kind of place is that
[18:32:09] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: lol
[18:32:31] <grommit> or bodily functions
[18:34:05] <Jymmm> I guess he has to wait till his mom lets him deal with the wax.
[18:36:04] <Jymmm> Though, not a bad idea especially for a 11yo kid
[18:38:19] <grommit> skunkworks:
http://youtu.be/u34AmNa4Wg0
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[18:43:57] <skunkworks> grommit: awesom! how is it running?
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[18:44:38] <syyl_> nice
[18:44:44] <syyl_> whats the rapid speed?
[18:55:19] <JT-Shop> grommit: nice
[18:57:27] <skunkworks> 1000 rpm of the servo would give you 666ipm
[18:57:34] <skunkworks> ish
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[19:11:38] <syyl_> uh
[19:11:47] <syyl_> 17m/min
[19:11:52] <syyl_> pretty fast :)
[19:14:58] <grommit> Well, it was running great when using stepgen position feedback. I just changed the config to include the encoders and now I can't get it to run without an immediate following error
[19:15:10] <grommit> The current max rapids is about 1400 ipm
[19:16:25] <grommit> I am just trying to get X axis to work. My hal file is at:
http://pastebin.com/VWNPuUB8 and my ini is:
http://pastebin.com/j3fWLfY5
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[19:17:46] <skunkworks> up your following error - or your scale on the encoder needs to be negated
[19:19:11] <grommit> hmm, let me see about negating the scale...
[19:20:48] <skunkworks> I would still up the following error to something like .5" or so.. so you can see what is happinging
[19:21:07] <skunkworks> then graph the following error - it would be neat to see
[19:21:35] <grommit> Is that the FERROR value in ini?
[19:22:35] <skunkworks> yes - there is 2 for each axis. min-ferror (error at slow speeds) and f-error - error at high speed.
[19:22:47] <skunkworks> I would set them both to .5" for now
[19:24:36] <grommit> I did, but still get an immediate following error the second I touch the arrow to move
[19:25:13] <grommit> negating input_scale didn't seem to do anything either.
[19:28:56] <skunkworks> oh - you are doing the actual 'servo' like feedback loop?
[19:29:11] <skunkworks> with pid? not just checking for following error?
[19:29:28] <grommit> yes
[19:29:29] * skunkworks just scanned over the hal file
[19:29:51] <skunkworks> does the axis move at all before it errors?
[19:30:05] <grommit> no
[19:30:32] <skunkworks> what do you have for pidff1-3 ?
[19:30:49] <grommit> I can hear it dithering (Geckos do that), and I can see the encoder count moving between -100 and -101 in show hal config
[19:31:06] <grommit> ff1=0, ff2=1.0 ff3=0
[19:31:24] <skunkworks> P is 10?
[19:31:33] <grommit> sorry, that is ff0=0 ff1=1.0 and ff2=0
[19:31:49] <grommit> yes, P is 10 (chosen totally at random)
[19:31:55] <grommit> is that the issue?
[19:32:06] <grommit> I haven't done this before so I have no idea what to set them to
[19:32:07] <skunkworks> and you set your following error to .5"?
[19:32:12] <grommit> yes
[19:32:25] <grommit> FERROR and MIN_FERROR are 0.5
[19:34:18] <skunkworks> does the encoder scalling seem to be right? moving an inch - feedback is an inch?
[19:35:02] <grommit> well, I can't move now. but when it was working without Encoders/PID yes, it moved the right distance...
[19:36:43] <skunkworks> now - did you change the stepgens to velocity mode then?
[19:36:55] <grommit> perhaps not!
[19:36:57] <skunkworks> instead of position?
[19:37:21] <grommit> is that step_type?
[19:37:39] <skunkworks> I don't know - never done anything like this..
[19:37:49] <skunkworks> I have not played that much with stepper systems
[19:37:59] <grommit> ok, rtfm'ing...
[19:39:18] <skunkworks> How come you don't use the encoders just to trip a following error?
[19:39:31] <skunkworks> Isn't that how your other machine was setup?
[19:39:45] <skunkworks> trying something new?
[19:39:47] <grommit> Yes, that was a stepper machine. This is a true servo machine
[19:40:24] <skunkworks> choke choke sputter sputter.. no. ;)
[19:40:40] <grommit> well, more so than the EMCO
[19:40:46] <skunkworks> heh
[19:40:59] <grommit> at least it has servo motors :-)
[19:42:08] * skunkworks likes servos
[19:44:16] <skunkworks> In my opinion - there really is no reason to get so complicated with this setup.. If it where me - I would set it up like your other machine. (using the feedback for following error only) It isn't like you are going to loose steps with the servo (which the closed loop setup might correct for)
[19:44:35] <skunkworks> *step servos.
[19:45:26] <skunkworks> that being said - wasn't there someone on the forum that setup something similar?
[19:45:41] <skunkworks> (pid loop for steppers - but the same difference)
[19:46:44] <grommit> user aike in the forum set up something similar for a lathe (and that is where some of my config comes from)
[19:47:06] <skunkworks> hmm - what I remember was a mill.
[19:47:36] <grommit> User Gtom may also have, but I haven't found his configs
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[19:50:10] <skunkworks> that is the person I am thinking of
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[19:52:56] <grommit> I can't seem to find how to set the ctrl_type (to v - for velocity) for the Mesa (HostMot) driver....
[19:58:02] <PCW> (bit input) control-type: Switches between position control mode (0) and velocity control mode (1). Defaults to position control (0).
[19:59:06] <grommit> thanks Peter. Ignore my message to the list...
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[20:03:17] <grommit> Well, that change made a difference - sort of - It still gives me an immediate following error, but it does try to move now
[20:03:27] <grommit> I hear a clunk and get the ferror
[20:04:31] <grommit> oh, wait, my scale is negative now....
[20:05:58] <grommit> It works. Woohoo.
[20:06:05] <skunkworks> Yah
[20:06:19] <grommit> And it is going at 1500 ipm. I just have to crank it up now ;-)
[20:06:50] <skunkworks> halscope your following error
[20:06:59] <grommit> ok...
[20:11:21] <grommit> hmm, I am not seeing anything. I have channel 1 set to axis.0.f-error. Run Normal, Trigger Auto
[20:13:23] <skunkworks> set the trigger channel?
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[20:14:50] <grommit> yes, that helped.
[20:16:36] <skunkworks> I must be on my A game today. shocker
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[20:18:22] <grommit> let's see where can I post it....
[20:18:47] <grommit> can you put images on pastebin?
[20:23:51] <grommit> http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/ferr.png
[20:24:18] <grommit> If I move the axis in one direction and then quickly reverse direction, I get a following error (at 1500 ipm).
[20:24:46] <grommit> If I pause for even a split second, then no fault.
[20:24:51] <skunkworks> is that .075 spike ish?
[20:25:08] <skunkworks> 50m = .050 per div?
[20:25:12] <grommit> 0.070
[20:25:34] <skunkworks> hmm - well - now on to tuning...
[20:25:49] <grommit> what does this value mean?
[20:25:57] <grommit> (before going on to tuning)...
[20:26:09] <skunkworks> that is how far off the from the programmed path the machine is diviating
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[20:26:25] <skunkworks> so - you where .070" off from where emc said it should be
[20:27:02] <grommit> So, now what do I need to do to tune?
[20:27:08] <skunkworks> so - when you where doing reversals - you where getting up to .5" off from programmed
[20:27:22] <grommit> not sure, will try it...
[20:31:31] <grommit> http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/ferr1.png
[20:32:03] <grommit> this one caused a ferror fault in axis
[20:32:28] <skunkworks> you might want to do some searching for pid tuning... I am no expert. trial and error. For the most part - increase P until you get an oscillation - increase D until it damps it. start jogging and graphing and adjusting for best error.
[20:33:04] <grommit> so I should watch ferror while doing that?
[20:33:18] <skunkworks> I might slow the accelleration down also... for starters.. you have like 100ips/s
[20:33:29] <skunkworks> iirc
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[20:33:34] <grommit> sounds right
[20:33:42] <grommit> isn't more better :-)
[20:33:55] <skunkworks> yes - but it might be hard to tune initally
[20:34:14] <skunkworks> get a feel for it at say 20ips/s
[20:34:27] <grommit> ok ok, i'll slow it down ;-)
[20:35:43] <grommit> thanks. now hopefully the Y axis (two motors) will work. We are building some differential to single ended converter boards now so will be trying that next...
[20:41:42] <factor> Like having sponges in my solder irons now. been without them for a long time.
[20:42:48] <alex4nder> hey
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[21:11:16] <grommit> PCW: Is the index itself a pin in EMC? I don't see it. I see index-enable, but not index. I was wondering if I could see it on Halscope...
[21:12:52] <PCW> index enable is a bidirectional pin, (homing to index uses it)
[21:12:53] <PCW> basicaly you set it and it gets cleared when an index has been found
[21:13:33] <grommit> I see. thanks
[21:14:57] <PCW> so when you set index enable he hardware looks for index and latches the count in hardware when the index occurs. this latched count
[21:14:59] <PCW> is used to zero the reported encoder position
[21:15:35] <PCW> the hardware
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[21:17:06] <PCW> we dont physically clear the counter on index as that would mess up rawcounts
[21:17:08] <PCW> (used for motor commutation for example) and the velocity estimate
[21:23:00] <PCW> You are unlikely to be able to see the actual index pin in halscope at moderate to high speeds as its usually just one encoder line wide
[21:23:02] <PCW> you should be able to se it at slow speeds (you can just read the GPIO bit that the index pin is on)
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[21:39:54] <grommit> ok, will try it. I see it on my oscope but will play with it more next week in halscope. Thanks for the info.
[21:42:20] <grommit> I am to the point of trying to tune the servos. I think I have the geckos tuned as well as I can get them. I am hoping I can get EMC's parameters set too. Do you have any advice for how to tune them? Trial and error while watching ferror? Any place to start on P,I,D? I have P=10, i=0 an d=0 currently but that was just a random guess.
[21:43:20] <grommit> I also have ff0=0 ff1=1 and ff2=0, bias=0 and deadband=.001
[21:43:29] <grommit> Those came from someone elses config
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[21:50:14] <grommit> bbl
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[21:51:42] <PCW> Since its a pure (and very good at the step/dir level)) velocity mode servo I would turn everything off except FF1 and tune that to start
[21:51:44] <PCW> (should you read the logs)
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