#emc | Logs for 2011-09-08

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[00:08:16] <jbunch> what is the pin that gives you an rpm number
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[00:30:48] <PCW> Not sure quite where to start. symptoms are no external devices start. (never even green blink)
[00:31:57] <PCW> when you start the link do you start all channel;s or only the first N requested on the command line?
[00:33:37] <PCW> also when you stop do you do a stop-all?
[00:34:49] <andypugh> The driver only starts the number asked for.
[00:35:04] <andypugh> I am less sure about stop.
[00:35:20] <PCW> probably safest to always stop all
[00:36:56] <andypugh> The EMC2 machine is playing up, it wlll do smb (so I have transferred the schmidt config) but is not accepting ssh or vnc connections. I probably need to rebooot both ends
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[00:40:23] <andypugh> I am not sure that it does any stopping at all. I need to look more carefully earlier in the day.
[00:42:26] <andypugh> What I mean is that the driver can stop the cards, but I don't immediately see it explicitly stopping the cards in the cleanup phase.
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[00:48:16] <andypugh> Too late, must sleep.
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[01:29:19] <jbunch> I have an encoder on my spindle tied to an 7i33. The encoder has 1000 pulses per rev. It also has an index pulse. How do I display Spindle RPM? How do I integrate this into emc for use with g33
[01:33:22] <Tom_itx> motion.read spindle-speed-out or such?
[01:33:39] <Tom_itx> err read motion.spindle-speed-out or such?
[01:34:00] <Tom_itx> spindle-revs ?
[01:34:05] <Tom_itx> one of those should get it
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[01:42:10] <WalterN> where are some good places to find good used lathes?
[01:42:35] <WalterN> (manuual lathe)
[01:43:10] <Tom_itx> jbunch, you also may get the info you want from the encoder count itself
[01:43:42] <Tom_itx> hm2_7i33.encoder.xx.count etc
[01:48:36] <cradek> WalterN: where are you?
[01:48:48] <WalterN> montana, USA
[01:49:31] <cradek> I bet that's not a good place...
[01:49:48] <jbunch> The encoder count is a raw count. just up or down. somehow the index has to have an effect on this. and would the rpm not come from the index pulse?
[01:50:29] <WalterN> heh, I wouldent mind driving out a state or possibly more to find something reasonable
[01:50:54] <cradek> jbunch: G33 is position mode, not velocity. you hook it to motion.spindle-revs after scaling it so 1.0 is one turn.
[01:51:06] <cradek> WalterN: HGR in Cleveland is good for used stuff, but maybe not much manual
[01:51:33] <cradek> WalterN: unfortunately a state or two isn't going to get you to the rust belt
[01:51:45] <WalterN> rust belt?
[01:51:51] <jbunch> ohio
[01:51:51] <cradek> I hear people in the right locations have some luck on craigslist etc
[01:52:07] <cradek> detroit/cleveland/etc
[01:53:55] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/config/emc2hal.html
[01:54:05] <cradek> jbunch: ^ this shows what you can hook to motion
[01:54:21] <cradek> jbunch: you'll want spindle-at-speed and spindle-revs for G33 etc
[01:55:02] <cradek> if you want FPR in lathe mode, you also need spindle-speed-in
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[02:06:47] <Jymmm> cradek: what they call it "the rust belt"?
[02:07:52] <cradek> it's where you find the rusting machinery that represents the part of the US that used to be the manufacturing center, back when we had that
[02:08:07] <Jymmm> ah
[02:08:07] <jdhNC> hey, I still to mfg
[02:08:18] <cradek> fwiw, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_Belt
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[02:30:24] <jbunch_> is the motion.spindle.index.enable supposed to toggle?
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[02:44:37] <Tom_itx> jbunch_, it looks like an input to me
[02:45:08] <Tom_itx> or possibly both in and out?
[02:53:03] <jbunch_> it is an in out . i am trying to figure out if i am getting an index pulse. i do not see a pin on the mesa card that is connected to the z or index on the encoder
[02:54:32] <Tom_itx> does dmesg show the encoders?
[02:59:35] <jbunch_> yes they show in dmesg . my encoder is an open collector type. I am using 2 k resistors from the + 5 volt rail. does the encoder now need to be connected to the inverted or not input?
[03:00:20] <Tom_itx> 2k could be a little stiff possibly
[03:00:57] <jbunch_> I have 10 k
[03:01:18] <Tom_itx> i'd start with that but experiment back toward the 2k range
[03:01:23] <Tom_itx> 10k should work fine
[03:02:37] <Tom_itx> i'm a novice at emc so take my words as such
[03:03:21] <Tom_itx> the encoders should have 3 inputs, A B and index
[03:03:28] <jbunch_> the lower value resistor increases the speed but requires more current
[03:03:33] <Tom_itx> they _are_ quad right?
[03:03:46] <Tom_itx> right
[03:04:03] <jbunch_> yes it is a quad.
[03:04:37] <Tom_itx> dmesg should tell you where to wire it
[03:07:50] <jbunch_> I know where to wire it . just not where to find the pin to check it. I have a suspicion that this is all handled behind the scenes.
[03:08:09] <jbunch_> time for dinner brb
[03:08:38] <Tom_itx> it should show up in the motion. section
[03:08:45] <Tom_itx> or encoder.xx
[03:09:00] <Tom_itx> pull up hal config and look
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[04:15:58] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Well, any thoughts?
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[04:52:43] <IG-garage> hi, psha[work] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpAFS7ccSSU&feature=player_embedded
[04:53:16] <IG-garage> psha[work]: What thing to see Flash content normally do I need to install into Linux Mint 11 ??
[04:53:50] <psha[work]> flashplugin-nonfree
[04:53:56] <IG-garage> rooks: you also can see this race of electric-powered supermotards
[04:54:04] <IG-garage> psha[work]: I'll try, thanks
[04:54:25] <psha[work]> it's metapackage that downloads and installs plugin from adobe
[04:56:36] <IG-garage> it says it need flashplugin-installer first, which one isn't going to be installed, but I am about to install it manually at the moment
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[04:59:19] <IG-garage> Yesterday night (I'm working from 16:30 to 01:00) I was cycling back to home (employer lets bicycles to stay somewhere on the territory of the plant while you're working), made couple of tricks. (Rode on thin bars made of concrete, jumping.)
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[06:45:24] <Loetmichel> re @ company
[06:46:05] <IG-garage> What, have been having a dinner in a restaurant at a dinner time?
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[07:14:13] <IG-garage> hah, going to the garden through the puddles and ground roads heh
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[12:52:38] <jdhNC> what's the downside to running a 3-phase 15hp motor off a single->3-phase VFD vs. getting 3-phase installed?
[12:53:56] <archivist> current load and vfd cost
[12:54:29] <archivist> 15hp is not going to happen in single phase supply
[12:54:37] <jdhNC> current load in to the VFD?
[12:55:08] <archivist> yup much higher
[12:55:27] <jdhNC> http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/AC+Drives/Phase+Converter+VFD/PC1-150.html
[12:56:50] <jdhNC> that won't run a 15hp motor?
[12:59:41] <awallin_> 1-phase fuses go to about 2-3kW over here...
[12:59:57] <awallin_> so check you have 1-phase that you can load at 15hp (10kW ?)
[13:00:47] <Loetmichel> archivist: why not?
[13:01:09] <Loetmichel> 15hp is roughly 11kw
[13:01:33] <Loetmichel> meaning about 100A at 110V...
[13:01:48] <jdhNC> it's 240vac in
[13:02:05] <Loetmichel> so what, i thougt your meters are fused to 250A?
[13:02:19] <Loetmichel> ok, even better if you use 2 pole
[13:02:24] <archivist> here we are limited to 60 A 240 now
[13:02:47] <jdhNC> evidently there is 3phase on the outside... but it costs $3k to get it inside
[13:02:57] <Loetmichel> hmm, ok, thats a little thin
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[13:03:12] <jdhNC> vs. $1500 for the VFD which also gives rpm control (for a large compressor)
[13:03:30] <archivist> having a generator in the garden is my available method
[13:03:52] * Loetmichel hast the same problem: 3phase in the basement, but only 1 phase to each flat in theb uilding
[13:04:27] <archivist> starting current is a killer for compressors
[13:04:31] <Loetmichel> MY fuse panel is ready for 3 phase... but the rest aof the 4 appartements not
[13:06:22] <Loetmichel> so if i order the Electic company to change the meter to 3phase, my neighbours would be cut off because in that moment the protection for tne old electrics in the other appartments will be invalidated
[13:06:30] <archivist> we used to use my generator on a large compressor and it used to pin all the phase meters at max during startup
[13:07:28] <jdhNC> so, if they can get 60amp 240vac to feed this, it should run a 15hp compressor?
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[13:07:57] <archivist> jdhNC, you may blow fuses during the start
[13:08:03] <jdhNC> The compressor can be started unloaded
[13:08:07] <Loetmichel> archivist: i had a 17kVA diesel genny at a location as a emergency for 20 1kw halogen floodlights on the emergencyy exits.
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[13:08:35] <jdhNC> archivist: even if the VFD is set to ramp/soft start?
[13:08:40] <archivist> mine is 60A per phase and has 100hp behind it :)
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[13:09:06] <archivist> panic...netsplitz
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[13:09:17] <Loetmichel> so if main power goes down, the genny will kick in and gets switched 20kW halogen lamps cold on idle
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[13:09:38] <jdhNC> you can turn it by hand with it unloaded
[13:09:54] <Loetmichel> we had tested it several times: the 1200lbs genny jumps about 1' when getting load ;-)
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[13:10:33] <Loetmichel> 1' high . that is about 30cm ;-)
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[13:24:05] <A2Sheds> jdhNC: what's the size of your main breaker in your 120/240 (or is it only 120/208?) 2p panel? What will it cost to run 60A 2p circuit to a VFD?
[13:25:01] <A2Sheds> jdhNC: do you have enough room in your current panel to add a 2p breaker?
[13:25:20] <A2Sheds> the cost can add up quickly either way
[13:25:32] <jdhNC> there is a 2p 100 amp panel nearby
[13:26:00] <jdhNC> not my install... friend bought a 3phase compressor even after I tried talking him out of it :)
[13:26:35] <A2Sheds> how hard can be? 220, 221 whatever :)
[13:26:42] <jdhNC> I'd change the sheave and put in a 10HP single phase
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[13:26:56] <jdhNC> copper seems incredibly expensive now
[13:28:21] <A2Sheds> yeah, people are stealing A/C compressors here at night from backyards
[13:28:52] <A2Sheds> sneak in, unbolt and cut all the lines, drive by later and pick it up
[13:28:54] <jdhNC> melt down the a/c lines and make some 2awg for running the vfd
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[13:31:19] <jdhNC> that drive says it needs 99amps input
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[13:35:08] <skunkworks> don't know quite what is going on... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GLZS_K_tZ8
[13:37:59] <A2Sheds> heh... who knows, but USB can handle slower applications
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[13:42:20] <Jymmm> Heh, this is cool... http://www.youtube.com/user/industrialmania#p/u/49/G_RlKqOBF7Q
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[13:54:38] <grommit> I have two problems in Axis I need help to fix. One, when I click on Machine -> Show Hal Configuration nothing happens. 2, when I start EMC I do not see the ladder logic sample configurations. Can anyone help?
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[14:06:25] <archivist> skunkworks, the lack of text! ask a question /take the p
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[14:23:47] <grommit> How do I set encoder input_scale?
[14:24:25] <grommit> more accurately, how do I calculate what input_scale should be?
[14:29:22] <cradek> on an inch machine, that's the number of counts you get when moving an inch. for a mm machine, ..... an mm.
[14:43:27] <grommit> thanks. my encoders are set to 500 (2000 w quadrature) step/rev. My machine moves PI/2 in./rev. So 2000*2/PI=1273 step/in - so that would become my scale? There is also my stepgen position scale. I thought that would be 1273....
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[14:46:21] <Valen> i need this pic on a shirt for my lusers http://icanhascheezburger.com/2011/09/07/funny-pictures-so-smart/
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[15:04:01] <grommit> chris?
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[15:38:10] <skunkworks> grommit: how many steps per rev are your steppers? (with microstepping and such)
[15:39:30] <grommit> I have servos connected to Gecko 320x. The gearing is PI/2 in/rev.
[15:39:42] <grommit> by the way, thanks for your help yesterday
[15:40:06] <grommit> With another guy's help we went through the ladder logic and were able to set up what we wanted
[15:41:02] <skunkworks> Great!
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[15:42:11] <grommit> we used AND and OR gates in emc to connect the signals (following the ladder diagrams). The relevant config is here if you are interested: http://pastebin.com/JwK7Hp5R
[15:42:46] <skunkworks> so - .00079ish per step?
[15:43:53] <grommit> 3.14159/2= 1.571 in/rev
[15:44:29] <grommit> encoders are 500ppr (2000 w/ quadrature)
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[15:44:44] <grommit> 1273.XXX step/in
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[15:44:52] <skunkworks> that is what I get...
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[15:45:24] <skunkworks> you would want to take that number out to as many digits as you can.
[15:45:46] <grommit> so what goes in my encoder input scale vs my stepgen position scale?
[15:46:28] <skunkworks> so - you have the encoder hooked into emc also? (goes to both the mesa card and emc?
[15:46:34] <skunkworks> *geckos
[15:46:34] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[15:47:56] <skunkworks> If the geckos do quadature steps (ie 2000 steps per rev) then I think you would use the same scale in both places
[15:48:31] <skunkworks> how big is the machine and how big are the servos?
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[15:49:34] <skunkworks> .00078 per step seems to be a bit on the low res side. I very much doubt that the drives can hit down to 1 encoder count.
[15:51:20] <skunkworks> have you had a chance to see how close to actual position your machine gets? You will have a great test machine - you will be able to compare the step position to the encoder position within emc
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[15:54:08] <A2Sheds> is there a list of all the mesa boards with support somewhere?
[15:54:32] <JT-Shop> fforum
[15:54:38] <JT-Shop> forum
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[15:56:35] <grommit> still there skunkworks?
[15:56:41] <grommit> had some network problems
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[15:57:50] <grommit> Yes, encoders are hooked to Gecko (but it only cares about A, B channel - not index) and into the Mesa cards so emc will see A,B,Idx
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[15:58:14] <grommit> catching up from the archive...
[15:58:28] <grommit> The servos are http://www.kelinginc.net/ServoMotors.html (KL-34-180-90)
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[15:59:20] <grommit> A2sheds: mesanet.com
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[15:59:54] <grommit> skunkworks:
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[16:00:19] <grommit> I haven't had a chance to see how close anything is because I am having trouble moving
[16:00:36] <A2Sheds> grommit: they don't have a list of the board with EMC support, you have to look at each board, why I am putting together a list
[16:00:36] <grommit> hence questions about scales, etc...
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[16:01:07] <grommit> Oh, I see
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[16:01:56] <JT-Shop> list on the forum
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[16:02:48] <skunkworks> grommit: what was your problem with software step generation?
[16:02:58] <skunkworks> (what where you seeing)
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[16:03:41] <A2Sheds> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/id,1325/catid,27/
[16:03:56] <A2Sheds> firefox would not render the page
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[16:04:07] <A2Sheds> thanks JT
[16:04:08] <grommit> we couldn't get the servos to run smoothly. It was like they weren't tuned, but they were. If you ran them at anything other than a crawl they would jerk all over the place.
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[16:04:28] <grommit> I was looking at the step gen output with a oscope and it was all over the place
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[16:04:59] <grommit> I ran the latency test again (for a long time - several days) and sure enough there was high latency that was happening intermittently
[16:05:13] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you commented on my cutting table insert yesterday, but did you have any suggestions to the issue I'm up against currently?
[16:05:43] <grommit> My initial test (which ran about 1/2 a day showed >9000 us, but the one that ran several days was 40,000us!
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[16:06:14] <grommit> It is a D510MO mb so it shouldn't have a problem. But it appears to
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[16:07:21] <grommit> So, this coupled with wanting to use the index pulse for homing, drove me to get the Mesa card
[16:08:07] <skunkworks> huh. I think you should talk to Danimal_garage - iirc he was having latency issues with that board and it ended up being the screensaver/powersaving. again IIRC
[16:08:42] <Jymmm> Might be an ACPI/APM thing, check BIOS version and settings in BIOS.
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[16:08:46] <skunkworks> how beefy is this machine? any pictures?
[16:08:53] <grommit> well, water under the bridge now, cause with the Mesa I don't care!
[16:09:29] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I have not been following you on it...
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[16:09:44] <grommit> It is pretty beefy. we will be about to fully cut 4' x infinite (5' in length, but feed it in)....
[16:09:48] <JT-Shop> I just wanted to know if you finally got it done
[16:09:49] <skunkworks> yes 40k latency shoudl be no problem with just a servo thread
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[16:09:59] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You want me to recap, or nah?
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[16:10:16] <JT-Shop> sure I have about 30 or so before I have to leave
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[16:10:19] <grommit> Right
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[16:10:29] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Gimme a few...
[16:11:14] <grommit> so, now I need to get my step/dir parameters and whatnot set to see if I can make these things fly...
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[16:11:48] <grommit> so you think my input scale for encoders, and position scale for stepgen should be the same?
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[16:11:59] <skunkworks> grommit: my feeling is that your servos are not geared down enough for your application... again - just my feeling...
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[16:12:11] <skunkworks> grommit: yes - I think they should be the same.
[16:13:37] <grommit> I forget how to determine my steplen and stepspace. If I use the defaults (steplen=1 and stepspace=0) I get no pulses....
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[16:14:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://codepad.org/kL6GiLU6 - http://oi54.tinypic.com/24zd6x4.jpg - This is in essense of what the cutting table insert will be, with the HC on top. The opening to the left is what will be facing the exhaust ports and will have whatever diverter I come up with http://oi55.tinypic.com/23l04gl.jpg
[16:14:51] <skunkworks> grommit: does this help? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Drive_Timing
[16:15:23] <grommit> i'lll try it
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[16:17:38] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: some kind of adjustable damper should work
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[16:18:10] <DaViruz> JT-Shop: does the throttle valve need to be where that port is?
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[16:18:22] <DaViruz> err
[16:18:24] <DaViruz> Jymmm: *
[16:18:27] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: That was my intension, but what? It only has a 1" height, so that would make it pretty sensative to adjutments I'd suspect.
[16:19:27] <Jymmm> DaViruz: Well, no, but I'm not sure where else it would be placed. There's only like 2" distance from the back wall to the cutting box
[16:19:40] <Jymmm> err, less than 2"
[16:20:01] <DaViruz> i'm thinking something like http://www.pax.se/html/vent/fonster.html
[16:20:16] <DaViruz> sorry for the non-english
[16:20:22] <DaViruz> but check the pdfs
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[16:21:58] <DaViruz> oh, the pdfs were multilanguage even
[16:22:05] <Jymmm> DaViruz: That would work if it as just a gate/valve, but I actually need a diverter that would move into the airstream to divert a portion of it below the cutting surface.
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[16:22:40] <DaViruz> oh hmm
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[16:22:42] <Jymmm> s/as/was/
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[16:24:01] <DaViruz> i thought you had two "vents", one below and one above connected to a single chamber
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[16:24:21] <skunkworks> Grommit: the gecko drives can be off +/-128 counts before it errors.
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[16:25:23] <Jymmm> DaViruz: There ARE two vents, but I need to divert a PORTION of the top vent to below the cutting table surface, to give a stronger suction than the little vent can provide.
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[16:27:28] <DaViruz> i don't get it
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[16:27:51] <DaViruz> but that's ok, i need to go anyway
[16:27:56] <Jymmm> DaViruz: do you see the lower vent? http://oi54.tinypic.com/24zd6x4.jpg
[16:28:12] <Jymmm> it's about 11" wide.
[16:28:13] <DaViruz> yes
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[16:28:36] <Jymmm> Ok, that doesn't provide enough suction
[16:29:10] <DaViruz> are the two vents connected to the same volume at the low pressure side?
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[16:29:26] <Jymmm> I need to divert a PART of the suction from the TOP 24" vent to help with below the cutting table insert
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[16:31:02] <Jymmm> DaViruz: Ok, I'm making one of these, but trying to overcome the problem these have with not enough suction below the honeycomb http://i56.tinypic.com/eb8t9t.jpg
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[16:31:42] <DaViruz> what exactly do you mean by suction?
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[16:31:46] <DaViruz> pressure or airflow?
[16:32:10] <Jymmm> the TOP vent draws smoke away from ABOVE the HC (honeycomb), the bottom (smaller) vent draws smoke away from under the HC, but its not strong enough.
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[16:32:48] <Jymmm> DaViruz: Those two vents have a dust collector proving suckage.
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[16:32:53] <DaViruz> well then you either need a vacuum source capable of higher airflow, or you need to throttle whatever vent sucks from above
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[16:32:57] <Jymmm> proving
[16:33:04] <DaViruz> providing ;)
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[16:33:42] <Jymmm> Yes, I know. but HOW to divert from above to below HC without being so sensative?
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[16:37:20] <skunkworks> automata is having issues
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[16:39:26] <archivist> automata faulty wifi ?
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[16:39:39] <archivist> !later automata faulty wifi ?
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[16:39:51] <the_wench> automata: archivist said faulty wifi ?
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[17:02:31] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, add adjustable baffles
[17:02:59] <Jymmm> to where?
[17:03:41] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Realize I don't need to just reduce flow, but divert it
[17:04:15] <Tom_itx> same suction source?
[17:04:37] <Jymmm> Both vents are, yes. one above HC, the other below.
[17:04:59] <Tom_itx> add a baffle outside it where they come together so you can adjust it
[17:05:15] <Tom_itx> make a flow meter to balance it
[17:05:40] <Tom_itx> put a tube in each vent pipe and monitor the vacuum
[17:05:52] <Tom_itx> have it controlled by a C
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[17:05:59] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I understand that, but the top vent is only 1" tall, how do you create a baffle that isn't THAT sensative to divert a portion of the flow from above to below??
[17:06:13] <Tom_itx> think outside the box
[17:06:25] * Tom_itx gives Jymmm a bigger box to play in
[17:06:34] <Jymmm> That's why I asked here in the first place
[17:07:03] <DaViruz> Jymmm: if you reduce flow in the upper one it WILL increase in the lower one
[17:07:21] <DaViruz> because the pressure in the manifold will get lower
[17:07:24] <Jymmm> DaViruz: In theory, yes.
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[17:07:32] <Tom_itx> in practice too
[17:07:55] <Jymmm> Ok, so it's the same thing. but HOW to accomplish this?
[17:08:10] <Tom_itx> take lots of pictures and we will fix you right up
[17:08:14] <Tom_itx> detailed ones
[17:08:17] <Jymmm> I did
[17:08:22] <Tom_itx> i saw 2
[17:08:41] <Jymmm> It's two vents, what more do you need? seriously
[17:08:57] <Tom_itx> well if it's that simple add a baffle and be done with it
[17:09:08] <Jymmm> plus the unfisihed drawing of the insert
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[17:09:10] <DaViruz> i didn't even see the top vent in the picture
[17:09:16] <Tom_itx> me either
[17:09:20] * Tom_itx stabs Jymmm
[17:09:45] <Jymmm> You dont see it here? http://oi54.tinypic.com/24zd6x4.jpg
[17:09:52] <Tom_itx> it's very common to put a baffle in a heating system to balance the air flow
[17:10:21] <Jymmm> It's the long 24" one, 6" above the little 11" one
[17:10:22] <Tom_itx> for all i can tell, that's a mail slot in the bottom of a door
[17:11:12] <DaViruz> Jymmm: flow will be roughly proportional to the surface areas
[17:11:14] <Tom_itx> show me the other side
[17:11:21] <DaViruz> if you want the same flow in both, make them the same surface area
[17:12:19] <DaViruz> not accounting for turbulence in the manifold
[17:12:35] * Tom_itx gives Jymmm a 35hp air evac system to work with
[17:12:46] <DaViruz> also, my profession is ventilation, so i'm not just making this up
[17:13:17] <Tom_itx> i understand you wanna draw the smoke away from the top and bottom
[17:13:25] <Tom_itx> where is the air inlet for both?
[17:13:36] <Tom_itx> where do the 2 vents come together?
[17:13:39] <Jymmm> Green == Top vent 24" wide, 1" tall. Blue == Bottom vent, 1/2" tall, 11" wide http://i51.tinypic.com/vyocu9.jpg
[17:14:12] <Tom_itx> where does the honeycomb sit?
[17:14:39] <Jymmm> In the cutting table enclosure I'm attempting to create.
[17:14:53] <Tom_itx> between the vents?
[17:14:57] <Jymmm> http://i55.tinypic.com/23l04gl.jpg
[17:15:31] <Jymmm> the opening (shown on left in that drawing - unfinished) is what will face the vents
[17:15:44] <Jymmm> the HC will sit on top of the enclosure
[17:16:05] <Tom_itx> what happened to your fancy aluminum frame?
[17:16:19] <Jymmm> the BLACK lines in the drawing are the guide rules you see in the laser. in the photo
[17:16:59] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I couldn't locate extruded aluminum profiles that I need.
[17:18:04] * Tom_itx gives up and goes for lunch
[17:18:17] <Jymmm> sigh
[17:18:25] <Tom_itx> balance the airflow outside the box
[17:19:29] <Jymmm> Yes, I understnad that. but HOW do you do that when you only have 1" of height to adjust from?
[17:19:53] <Tom_itx> i can't see the other side of the vents from here
[17:20:05] * Tom_itx tries to move the picture so he can
[17:20:17] <Jymmm> Nothing can be done on the other side of the plenum.
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[17:23:01] <Jymmm> *IF* I reduced the flow on the 1x24 vent, how much flow increase can be put through the 0.5x11" vent?
[17:23:17] <Jymmm> Surely not the same amount?
[17:23:39] <Jymmm> 24sq in vs 5.5 sq in
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[17:30:57] <DaViruz> jsut duct tape it in increments until you are hapy with the flow distribution or something
[17:31:48] <Jymmm> lol, there is no way in hell my laser will ever see duct tape (unless it's cutting it)
[17:32:05] <DaViruz> then you know how big/small it needs to be
[17:32:30] <DaViruz> well i didn't suggest it as the final solution, jsut as a way to determine how big it needs to be
[17:32:31] <Jymmm> DaViruz: The diverter needs to be adjustable based on the material I'll be cutting.
[17:33:13] <JT-Shop> new shop gantry... weighs in at 800lbs http://imagebin.org/171602
[17:33:22] <JT-Shop> that will be fun picking up
[17:34:31] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you think those cross members are going to be string enough to kee the legs from flexing in/outward?
[17:34:37] <Jymmm> strong
[17:34:43] <JT-Shop> yea
[17:35:26] <Jymmm> you going to have your welds xrayed?
[17:36:08] <JT-Shop> no, my x-ray vision glasses are broken
[17:36:21] <Jymmm> how much weight is this to support?
[17:36:50] <JT-Shop> just depends on what I'm picking up Jymmm
[17:37:15] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Oh, and I don't mena the bottom cross members, I meant the top ones.
[17:37:41] <JT-Shop> yea, they are industry standard lenght
[17:38:06] <Jymmm> 2" tubing legs?
[17:38:13] <JT-Shop> 4"
[17:38:18] <Jymmm> OH
[17:38:20] <Jymmm> fuck me
[17:38:22] <JT-Shop> 4" x 1/4"
[17:38:37] <JT-Shop> it weighs 800 lbs
[17:38:55] <JT-Shop> the beam weighs 290 lbs
[17:38:56] <Jymmm> yeah, just didn't realize 4" tubing
[17:39:04] <JT-Shop> it's massive
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[17:39:21] <JT-Shop> for size ref the beam is 10' long
[17:39:21] <Jymmm> Gawd help ya if it ever falls over
[17:39:49] <JT-Shop> he always seems to be busy so I don't count on him helping me
[17:39:59] <Jymmm> where does the motor to drive the beast go?
[17:40:09] <JT-Shop> no motor
[17:40:40] <JT-Shop> mostly to pick things up and set on heavy moving rollers etc
[17:40:55] <JT-Shop> much better than a tree limb
[17:41:27] <Jymmm> Dumb Q, but why not one of those truck mounted cranes?
[17:41:28] <JT-Shop> although the casters support 3,000 lbs each
[17:41:47] <JT-Shop> the truck would take up too much room in the shop
[17:42:09] <Jymmm> cherry picker? they fold up
[17:42:24] <JT-Shop> I have one, you saw the photo the other day
[17:42:36] <Jymmm> yeah. whats wrong with using it?
[17:43:08] <JT-Shop> nothing when the job allows you to, except the casters suck and need to be replaced
[17:43:19] <Jymmm> ah
[17:43:46] <Jymmm> Heh, you should incorporate overhead crane system
[17:43:47] <JT-Shop> and you can't roll one under a thing unless it has 8" of ground clearance
[17:44:02] <Tom_itx> cherry picker
[17:44:03] <JT-Shop> it will be an overhead crane, LOL
[17:44:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you know what I mean
[17:44:38] <Tom_itx> overhead crane is just a big gantry
[17:44:59] <JT-Shop> I don't move enough heavy stuff to warrant one
[17:45:00] <Jymmm> But you coul get anything anywhere in/out of the shop.
[17:45:12] <JT-Shop> I can with this too
[17:45:32] <JT-Shop> and when not in use it hovers over the box/pan brake
[17:45:32] <Jymmm> extend an I-Beam out the shop door and can pick from truck too.
[17:46:23] <JT-Shop> I can back the truck into the shop easier
[17:46:31] <Jymmm> ah
[17:46:36] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, make a slide for the upper vent, servo controlled. control the servo with a C using feedback from the upper and lower vent with a pot for fine adjustment.
[17:46:49] <JT-Shop> I can back my 16' trailer into the shop if I need to
[17:47:56] <Tom_itx> hook it all up to a mesa card and control it with emc
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[17:48:30] <frysteev> back your truck into your shop? is this a game of my shop is bigger then yours?
[17:49:02] <JT-Shop> not really, but it might be as I don't know how big your shop is
[17:49:24] <JT-Shop> I run my business in my shop so it is only for play after hours
[17:49:35] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'm not concerned about the EXACT amount, but anyway... If I do create a slider of some sort, How can I route it to below the HC? Yes, I understnad I will increase the flow on the bottom vent as well, but I cant divert 24si to 5.5si (si == square inches)
[17:50:01] <Jymmm> of airflow that is
[17:50:41] <archivist> go forth and make a baffle and try it
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[17:50:55] <Tom_itx> it's likely to take a couple weeks
[17:51:07] <archivist> of questions in here
[17:51:34] <Tom_itx> mount it to linear slides for smooth action
[17:51:59] <archivist> whereas a bit of tape and a plate and all could be tried in 5 minutes
[17:54:08] <Jymmm> Guys, really, I do appreciate the help and all. but I have a lot of non-geek stuff going on - attorneys (plural), subpoena requests, affidavids, medical records, doctors, specialists, etc) and I'm only able to devote time for this as I can find it. A baffle in itself is NOT what I need, I need to DIVERT a PORTION of the flow between two areas, not just adjust the amount of flow.
[17:54:58] <archivist> a baffle WILL adjust the relative flow
[17:55:08] <Jymmm> As in I need to be able to SPLIT the flow of the top vent to two different areas.
[17:55:24] <Jymmm> and I only have a one inch area to do it in.
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[17:57:49] <Jymmm> If I create a baffle, and reduce the flow on the top vent (lets say) by half or 12si, you are telling me I can increase the lower vent flow by the additional 12si even though the lower vent is only 5.5si and it will not change the SP (static pressure) ?
[17:59:26] <archivist> the flow goes along the easiest route, balance the ease of flow....ergo baffle the one with too much flow
[18:04:23] <Jymmm> archivist: Ok, but what actually changes with you use a baffle? The CFM, SP, or both?
[18:05:19] <archivist> only other option is increase area of the pipe with lower flow, you choose
[18:05:49] <archivist> any variation changes something, measure
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[18:06:35] <archivist> and there is no such thing as a free lunch
[18:07:19] <Jymmm> I realize that. thats why I originally was intending to use a diverter and not just a baffle.
[18:08:36] <archivist> diverter effects flow and pressure too
[18:08:46] <archivist> I repeat there is no such thing as a free lunch
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[20:56:02] <JT-Shop> what do you use to view a .flv file on a winblows box?
[20:57:16] <andypugh> VLC?
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[20:57:31] <andypugh> (Just a guess)
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[21:06:47] <andypugh> mhaberler: Dod you see the question on the mailing list about setting parameters from M101. Is that related to the work you did recently?
[21:07:44] <mhaberler> very remotely - it's one of the contortions needed because of the lack of a truly global configuration namespace
[21:07:54] <mhaberler> beyond ini config, that is
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[21:08:09] <andypugh> I guess that the same Python in a script would work
[21:08:11] <andypugh> ?
[21:08:13] <mhaberler> but I have no immediate improvement to offer, unfortunately
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[21:10:16] <mhaberler> it could, but at this point I hesitate to make that a supported feature; it was really just a proof of concept
[21:10:37] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
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[21:10:46] <mhaberler> sorry about that
[21:11:02] <andypugh> So, you don't know of any currently available ways to access params from the shell?
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[21:12:08] <andypugh> There is the very clunky method of using motion.analog-out I suppose.
[21:13:16] <andypugh> If parameters were kept in HAL shared memory, they could all automatically have a HAL pin. I wonder if there is any drawback to that idea?
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[21:14:07] <andypugh> (Apart from filling up at least 20k of HAL shared memory)
[21:14:13] <andypugh> (2k, I mean)
[21:14:28] <andypugh> No, sorry, I did mean 20k.
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[21:17:28] <mhaberler> andypugh: going through HAL?
[21:17:59] <mhaberler> motion.analog-in-XX set in shell script
[21:18:22] <andypugh> Yes, but that requires the G-code to fetch the value.
[21:19:28] <andypugh> It seems a bit of an omission that G-code and HAL are different worlds.
[21:19:43] <mhaberler> what's the idea - associate a HAL pin with a #NNNN param?
[21:19:58] <andypugh> (Your G-code introspection was a huge step forward there)
[21:20:37] <andypugh> Yes, a set of float HAL pins gcodeparam.0001 etc, and then gcodeparam.thisisanamedparam
[21:21:08] <andypugh> I am mot sure it is a _good_ idea.
[21:21:53] <mhaberler> one would have to declare a range in the numbered range, or invent a bit of syntax for named params
[21:22:47] <mhaberler> I've done something similar with ini vars
[21:22:52] <andypugh> named params are presumably created on the fly, so a hal pin could be created at the same time.
[21:22:57] <JT-Shop> whew, finally got that crap ware off my computer while looking at VLC
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[21:23:48] <mhaberler> you set [PARAMS]foo=4711 and can refer to it in gcode as #<_params[foo]> which will yield 4711
[21:23:50] <andypugh> In fact, it is possibly tidier to only create HAL pins for named params.
[21:26:16] <mhaberler> HAL would have the advantage of being global, that is - not screw up preview
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[21:27:58] <andypugh> There is a setting for gcode preamble, that could declare named params that you wanted to permanently link (assuming that runs before the postgui HAL)
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[21:29:39] <mhaberler> there is a backwards compat issue with inventing named param syntax within <> - in theory somebody already could use #<_params[foo]> and suddenly semantics changed, so these features need to be explicit turn-on
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[21:30:43] <mhaberler> but to unify the ideas, I could imagine
[21:31:42] <mhaberler> #<hal[comp.pin]> and #<ini[section.name]>
[21:33:29] <mhaberler> uh. there's a little issue here. there are interp instances in several processes (UI, task)
[21:34:30] <mhaberler> this means the interp instance needs to access an existing HAL pin, not create its own HAL component, which is frowned upon
[21:35:13] <mhaberler> I don't quite understand why but that feature didn't make it into gladevcp for that reason
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[21:35:20] <mhaberler> pasha already had it
[21:35:45] <mhaberler> psha, not the pasha ;-)
[21:36:06] <mhaberler> I guess we might move over to -dev
[21:37:04] <andypugh> Maybe, but it isn't like we are interrupting conversations.
[21:37:04] <andypugh> ]
[21:38:10] <mhaberler> anyway, the gist was psha & me weren't allowed to do what halcmd may do ;-)
[21:38:22] <andypugh> I feel that the actual G-code code is too isolated from the broader machine state. I suspect that your prior work means that you share that view
[21:39:05] <andypugh> Of course, we are both making the grave error of mistaking G-code for a programming language.
[21:39:36] <andypugh> It is probably best thought of as being more like HTML.
[21:41:19] <mhaberler> it's really access across namespaces - #<hal[comp.pin]> and #<ini[section.name]> refer to HAL and ini namespaces respectively
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[21:46:32] <mhaberler> the political question is: may a process access a HAL pin which it does not own http://psha.org.ru/cgit/psha/emc2.git/commit/?h=pyhal-globals&id=5727c5896f5b30fb1f46829ebb96e2e65a3ccfb7
[21:46:56] <JT-Shop> psha is having fun on the forum
[21:47:38] <mhaberler> we had proposed to have hal.globals[comp.pin] to access foreign pins, which is exactly what would be needed for gcode HAL params
[21:49:07] <adb> hi, is 3 500 euro a good price for a milling cnc , only other info it that it is 5.5 Tons, and it is 'working' ?
[21:49:10] <mhaberler> jt-shop: which thread?
[21:50:19] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I am an amused spectator, watching psha the stereotypical russian coder (I always imagine him saying "I am invincible") talking to piasdom, a guy who really, really, doesn't get coding.
[21:50:52] <andypugh> adb: You could probably get more than that for the scrap.
[21:51:17] <adb> andypugh, heh, cool
[21:51:33] <andypugh> Any idea of the model and manufacturer?
[21:51:34] <adb> so seems ok ?
[21:52:35] <andypugh> adb: It wouldn't be worth that to me. It all depends on your situation.
[21:52:43] <adb> andypugh, not yet , tomorrow i'll visit that factory , which sell all equipements
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[21:53:12] <JT-Shop> yes andypugh I am also a spectator on this one
[21:53:40] <andypugh> I don't have €3500 and I don't have space for a 5.5t machine. If you do, and especially if you can see yourself selling €3500 of work from the machine, then it's worth it to you.
[21:54:44] <adb> andypugh, i see, thx anyways
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[21:55:09] <mhaberler> uh, poor fella
[21:55:41] <adb> mhaberler, me ?
[21:55:51] <andypugh> If the supplementary question is "Can EMC2 control it" then the answer there is always "Yes" (or, occasionally, "not yet, give is a week")
[21:55:51] * adb hehe
[21:55:55] <mhaberler> mono, pasha over at the forum
[21:56:21] <adb> isee
[21:56:24] <mhaberler> jeepers, I need to turn of 'spelling correction' ;-)
[21:56:41] <andypugh> I like "pasha" for him.
[21:57:03] <andypugh> He is fairly eastern.
[21:57:09] <mhaberler> in a sense, the spelling corrector was right, yes
[21:57:50] <adb> "pasha" is a diminutive of ''papasha' meaning daddy
[21:58:38] <adb> or grand father
[21:58:44] <mhaberler> I guess we were more into the turkish semantics in his case ;-)
[21:59:06] <adb> no, it is pure russian
[21:59:43] <adb> as i know
[22:00:20] <adb> will ask him , better
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[22:01:47] <andypugh> Well, his name is psha (Pavel Shramov). The fun is that a "Pasha" was a high-ranking position in the Ottoman empire.
[22:03:09] <andypugh> Pashas ranked above http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bey and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agha_(Ottoman_Empire), but below http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khedive and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vizier.
[22:03:36] <adb> or it is a russian girl name
[22:03:44] <adb> heh
[22:03:47] <andypugh> I hate how it does that, it looks like plain text in the entry box, and expands to URLs when I hit enter. Grrr!
[22:04:36] <mhaberler> we should upgrade psha to Vizier.
[22:05:22] <adb> Vizier is downgrade
[22:05:30] <mhaberler> uh
[22:05:50] <mhaberler> but it sounds more like wizard
[22:05:59] <adb> heh
[22:06:49] <adb> Vizier was army chef
[22:08:54] <andypugh> This is how I picture him, the Russian hacker in Goldeneye. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXW02XmBGQw
[22:09:09] <DaViruz> boris!
[22:13:27] <andypugh> (I should perhaps point out that I quite liked Boris :-)
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[22:30:03] <andypugh> A friend of mine wants a gear-lever extension for his kit-car (I realise that those in the US will never have seen a gear lever, but bear with me). He came up with the leftmost in http://imagebin.org/171645 I countered with the other three. He decided on the second from the right. I now need to figure out how to make it. I am wondering about first making a spherical cup, then rounding off the top, putting the cup in the chuc
[22:30:04] <andypugh> pushing the blank hard in with the centre to friction-drive and machine the remainder. The other option is to do the rounded top last, but I don't have a fixed steady, and it looks too long and floppy to hold.
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[23:18:25] <skunkworks_> chirp chirp
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[23:24:34] <Tom_itx> andypugh, do the ball first
[23:25:43] <andypugh> My blank is only the length of the part.
[23:26:09] <archivist> thats mistake number 1
[23:26:19] <andypugh> (I forgot to mention chucking length to the recipient)
[23:26:58] <andypugh> Anyway, my nasty chinese lathe chatters horribly without a tailstock in use.
[23:27:17] <archivist> excess dia too so you can work on the long unsupported ball first
[23:27:23] <andypugh> (Not _entirely_ sure why, I changed the bearings to SKF)
[23:28:12] <archivist> adjust the bearings and add some preload
[23:29:46] <archivist> that lot of p h horn are getting expensive
[23:30:54] <andypugh> Over my budget now.
[23:31:29] <andypugh> Retail is £2k or so, it's 110 pieces.
[23:33:01] <andypugh> I have three subscribers for down to 1/4 at up to £40.
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[23:33:57] <archivist> I cannot afford at the moment
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[23:42:26] <andypugh> I shouldn't. It isn't like I make money from this. All my tooling is a net loss that lets me spend more on material (net loss) to modify my machines (net loss)
[23:43:30] <andypugh> But having something in the drawer to bore 6.02 holes is nice.
[23:44:16] <andypugh> I can't imagine using the truly tiny ones. Who bores 0.2mm holes, and why?
[23:44:57] <archivist> I have hand made .2 mm tooling
[23:46:35] <archivist> I had to make an evil ratchet for someone also http://gears.archivist.info/P1010320_hires.JPG needed some tooling
[23:47:24] <archivist> the hole is bored before the teeth are machined
[23:49:20] <andypugh> That is moderately tiny
[23:50:01] <archivist> a few attempts to get the one I pressed onto the pinion
[23:50:13] <andypugh> I think I might win for tiniest thing machined. I used ions.
[23:51:18] <archivist> tooke a few attempts to get the pinion and wheel for http://gears.archivist.info/gears/P7220001_500.JPG
[23:51:44] <archivist> I had no original to measure
[23:54:08] <andypugh> Any idea how the teeth are fitted into the drum?
[23:54:59] <andypugh> Plucking the comb but not bending the teeth must be a bit of a game
[23:56:00] <archivist> taper pins press fitted probably
[23:58:30] <archivist> iirc the whole thing was about 3 inches wide
[23:59:10] <archivist> the gears are about .2mod
[23:59:40] <andypugh> http://www.springerlink.com/content/v700132v11u87606/