#emc | Logs for 2011-09-07

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[00:37:31] <grommit> I am setting up a config for a gantry machine. The machine is built with Gecko 320X and servo motors with rack/pinion drive. Two motors are on Y to drive the gantry. I originally had the system built with parallel port breakout cards but was having odd problems that seemed to be related to step generation (even though I am using a D510MO and shouldn't have latency problems). Anyway, I...
[00:37:33] <grommit> ...removed the parallel port breakout cards and replaced them with a Mesa 7i43 card. I have the Mesa firmware required to drive my specific pinout and I have it wired up (or so I am fairly confident that I do). I now need to build the .hal and.ini configurations. I used PNCCONF to give me the beginnings of a config but there is quite a bit there I doubt I need, or that I need to change. ...
[00:37:35] <grommit> ...To start with, I need to get the the charge pump signal working.
[00:39:24] <grommit> My firmware has a pwmgen that is put out on a single pin specifically for a charge pump. I want to have it operate at about 5000Hz. I need to set it to a 50% duty cycle in order to get my square wave.
[00:39:53] <elmo401> never understood that. 2 motors on an axis.
[00:40:06] <elmo401> design the gantry properly and you won't need two to 'balance' it out.
[00:40:08] <grommit> My current configs are: http://pastebin.com/AskR5DXP (hal) and http://pastebin.com/AwMKjHiJ (INI)
[00:41:52] <grommit> Well, at this point I am well beyond debating the merits of various designs! It is built and I need to make it run...
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[00:51:14] <elmo401> true. just saying... ;) the Mazak gantry style 5-axis only uses one motor.
[00:51:34] <grommit> I'll trade you
[00:51:37] <grommit> :-)
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[00:53:46] <elmo401> sure... care to pay for shipping?
[00:53:48] <elmo401> I am in Canada
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[00:59:52] <A2Sheds> 5-axis and 1 motor total for all? or 1:1 axis to motor?
[01:00:24] <Tom_itx> i doubt it. some gantry setups use 2 motors per axis
[01:01:25] <A2Sheds> heh I'm picturing 1 motor with a lot of gearboxes and belts
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[01:12:20] <grommit> Is this a valid config?
[01:12:33] <grommit> HAL File:
[01:12:34] <grommit> setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency 5000
[01:12:36] <grommit> # ---PWM Generator signals/setup---
[01:12:37] <grommit> setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.output-type 0
[01:12:39] <grommit> setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.scale [CHARGEPUMP_0]OUTPUT_SCALE
[01:12:40] <grommit> net chargepump-val => hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value
[01:12:42] <grommit> net chargepump-enable => hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.enable
[01:12:43] <grommit> INI File:
[01:12:45] <grommit> [CHARGEPUMP_0]
[01:12:46] <grommit> OUTPUT_SCALE = 50
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[01:17:40] <jdhNC> anyone have any Carol 16/3 SOOW cable? I need 48"
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[01:31:20] <pcw_home> You probably want
[01:31:22] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_SCALE = 100 (100% full scale)
[01:31:24] <pcw_home> and chargepump-val set to 50 (50 % on)
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[01:43:02] <grommit> Hi Peter, how do I set chargepump-val to 50?
[01:44:18] <grommit> setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value [CHARGEPUMP_0]VALUE and VALUE=50 in the ini?
[01:46:53] <pcw_home> Should work
[01:47:47] <pcw_home> you can also generate a square wave with a free stepgen output
[01:50:19] <grommit> i am using all my stepgens (in the firmware build you gave me)...
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[02:20:33] <fritzgutten> hey, is it possible to display spindle rpm without having an encoder on the spindle?
[02:22:57] <FinboySlick> fritzgutten: Well, if your spindle controller is pwm-controlled, you can display what you're telling the controller to do, no way of knowing it's the real RPM figure though.
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[02:27:03] <fritzgutten> i've got a c6 board controlling rpm with an analog 0-10v signal, i just want a reference for when i'm manually controlling rpm
[02:27:38] <fritzgutten> trying to understand my hal file a bit better along the way
[02:27:58] <FinboySlick> fritzgutten: If you tell it how much RPM you actually measure at say 20% pwm, then how much you measure at 100%, it'll do an educated guess in axis.
[02:28:23] <FinboySlick> fritzgutten: I used the wizard for config on mine.
[02:29:11] <fritzgutten> ugh, if i use the wizard, i'll ace my hal and ini files wont i?
[02:29:49] <FinboySlick> fritzgutten: Probably. I'm still very low down the learning curve here so it's all I have to offer.
[02:30:32] <fritzgutten> ok, did you use a pyvcp configuration?
[02:31:26] <FinboySlick> fritzgutten: I just used the stepconf wizard from the gnome menu.
[02:32:26] <fritzgutten> well, its worth a try i guess, i can always backup my files, or maybe i should put them in the custom hal files.
[02:32:32] <FinboySlick> fritzgutten: That said, I think you can tell the wizard to load an existing config which should prevent it from changing stuff you don't want changed.
[02:32:59] <FinboySlick> By 'should' I really mean I'm assuming that's what will happen. I have no idea for sure.
[02:33:05] <fritzgutten> well, i know ehen i do that it wipes out my backlash info
[02:34:00] <FinboySlick> Have to get going... Good luck :)
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[02:34:06] <fritzgutten> thanks man
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[03:42:35] <frysteev> anyone still awake, that does cnc plasma?
[03:43:51] <Eartaker> not plasma
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[14:39:59] <grommit> I need a basic lesson on nets and signals and such...
[14:40:30] <archivist> with reference to what
[14:40:56] <grommit> I have two problems (to start with) in a new config. Charge pump, and estop.
[14:41:26] <grommit> I am using a Mesa card, and have a PWM signal mapped to a single pin in order to make a sqaure wave for a charge pump signal
[14:42:02] <grommit> I have the following in my hal file:
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[14:42:39] <grommit> setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.output-type 1
[14:42:41] <grommit> setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.scale [CHARGEPUMP_0]OUTPUT_SCALE
[14:42:43] <grommit> setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value [CHARGEPUMP_0]VALUE
[14:43:14] <grommit> and I have these values set in my .ini file (100, and 50 respectively) for a 50% duty cycle wave
[14:43:50] <grommit> oh, and I also have: setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency 5000
[14:44:13] <grommit> Now I need to send this signal out pin-20.
[14:45:00] <skunkworks> pin 20?
[14:45:07] <grommit> yes
[14:45:53] <skunkworks> is that what pin hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00 is mapped to?
[14:46:19] <grommit> yes, I guess so (is that done in firmware already?)
[14:46:31] <skunkworks> You cannot arbitrarily set what pin the mesa pwm will output to - it is set by default.
[14:46:36] <skunkworks> right
[14:46:41] <grommit> ok, right
[14:46:45] <skunkworks> I take it you are not seeing any output?
[14:46:54] <grommit> correct
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[14:47:44] <skunkworks> are the steppers working (I mean - does the mesa card seem to be working)
[14:48:56] <grommit> well no, but I am starting from scratch with a new config
[14:49:07] <skunkworks> do you have the pwm gen enabled? there is an enable pin also
[14:49:27] <grommit> I am just trying to be able to get axis (and machine) out of estop... (really the beginning!)
[14:49:57] <skunkworks> heh
[14:50:12] <grommit> I used pncconf to set it up and there is a bunch of stuff there that probably isn't right.
[14:51:15] <skunkworks> what is the charge pump running?
[14:51:53] <grommit> everything
[14:52:11] <grommit> if the charge pump isn't running, nothing is...
[14:53:16] <skunkworks> well - my question is - why are you needing a extra charge pump when you technically have that with the mesa card. (comunication fails on the mesa card - it shuts down)
[14:53:54] <grommit> We originally were using parallel port cards.
[14:54:38] <grommit> I changed to Mesa cards because I having issues with step generation from our D510MO motherboard (not sure why)....
[14:55:12] <skunkworks> so - you are using your breakout boards with the mesa card.
[14:55:17] <skunkworks> check
[14:55:24] <grommit> Anyway, so I have a charge pump circuit in there and I got a firmware load from Peter to use PWMGEN on a single pin for charge pump
[14:55:37] <grommit> no breakout boards (now) other than the Mesa
[14:55:58] <skunkworks> so - going back to above - do you have the enable pin set in the hal file?
[14:56:45] <grommit> I don't know, I guess that was part of my plea for help with basic nets and whatnot...
[14:57:17] <grommit> I always get confused on what is connected to what and what NEEDs to be connected to what...
[14:57:30] <skunkworks> heh
[14:57:38] <grommit> I have this:
[14:57:52] <grommit> net chargepump-val => hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value
[14:57:54] <grommit> net chargepump-enable => hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.enable
[14:58:05] <grommit> but not sure why :-)
[14:58:56] <skunkworks> ok - where is your hal file?
[14:59:16] <grommit> let me post it
[14:59:18] <grommit> ...
[15:01:47] <grommit> arg, how to "select all" in linux so I can post it to pastebin?
[15:02:01] <skunkworks> what are you using for an editor?
[15:02:08] <grommit> vi
[15:02:19] <skunkworks> oh - no clue. I use gedit
[15:02:23] <grommit> or I could use gedit...
[15:02:32] <skunkworks> normal GUI that has normal menus ;)
[15:02:59] <Valen> nano or gedit ftw here
[15:03:32] <grommit> http://pastebin.com/6H9dLVNK
[15:04:00] <awallin_> huc
[15:04:09] <awallin_> HUC
[15:04:14] <awallin_> :)
[15:06:40] <skunkworks> so - is part of your issue is you cannot get emc out of estop at all?
[15:07:25] <automata> Hi, has anyone succeded in using xenomai for the RT platform.. is there a development effort underway for that?
[15:07:41] <grommit> Yes, can't get out of estop
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[15:11:14] <skunkworks> emc does start though?
[15:11:23] <grommit> Axis starts
[15:11:47] <grommit> I don't see my charge pump signal and clicking on estop doesn't do anything
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[15:13:12] <skunkworks> if you add 'sets chargepump-enable true' to the hal file - what happens?
[15:13:19] <grommit> I have estop signal coming in on gpio pin-23 by the way
[15:13:38] <grommit> sets or setp?
[15:13:45] <skunkworks> sets is for signals
[15:13:53] <skunkworks> chargepump-enable is a signal
[15:14:02] <skunkworks> setp is for pins
[15:14:06] <grommit> see you've helped already :-)
[15:14:23] <grommit> let me try it
[15:14:25] <skunkworks> I try.. ;)
[15:15:50] <skunkworks> I think you need to evaluate how you want your estop to work... How do you envision it working?
[15:16:34] <grommit> by the way, I should say this was all working with the parallel port cards (minus the step generation issues)....
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[15:17:16] <grommit> So, when emc is running (sanely) it should generate charge pump waveform. That is required for relay on my charge pump board to enable power to the motors.
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[15:18:06] <grommit> If I hit the physical estop switch, it disconnects power to the motors and also will send a signal (pin 23) to Mesa card (emc) that someone hit the big red button
[15:18:11] <skunkworks> ok - good - and it sends back a ok signal to emc - on pin-23?
[15:18:19] <grommit> yes
[15:18:21] <skunkworks> ok
[15:19:23] <grommit> so doing sets chargepump-enable true didn't seem to change anything
[15:19:42] <skunkworks> can you look at the physical pin with a scope or such?
[15:20:03] <skunkworks> also - can you pastbin the output from halshow?
[15:20:21] <grommit> There is a light on my charge pump board if it gets triggered (not on) and I have a scope connected to the wire coming in (no square wave)...
[15:20:30] <grommit> ok hang on....
[15:20:31] <skunkworks> ok
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[15:22:24] <grommit> are you talking about show hal configuration from Axis?
[15:22:30] <skunkworks> no - sorry
[15:22:42] <skunkworks> are you running run in place or installed?
[15:22:51] <grommit> installed (I guess)
[15:23:02] <skunkworks> ok - open up a terminal
[15:23:12] <grommit> ok
[15:23:13] <skunkworks> type halcmd -fk
[15:23:44] <grommit> ok, got halcmd:
[15:23:47] <skunkworks> show
[15:24:08] <grommit> lots of output...
[15:24:22] <skunkworks> that gives you all the pins/signals/parameter/functions that are running and their state
[15:24:28] <grommit> can I pipe it to a file?
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[15:24:43] <grommit> it scrolls off the screen
[15:24:46] <skunkworks> ummm - probably - but I don't know how.
[15:24:56] <grommit> ok hang on a sec
[15:25:03] <skunkworks> I make the termanal properties have more lines
[15:25:25] <skunkworks> because that is the way I roll
[15:25:36] <Jymmm> lol
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[15:29:22] <grommit> ok, rolling your way.... http://pastebin.com/W4kEari4
[15:31:06] <skunkworks> 0 hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value <== chargepump-val see that the value is zero
[15:31:42] <grommit> in the ini file I have:
[15:31:49] <grommit> #********************
[15:31:51] <grommit> # Charge Pump
[15:31:53] <grommit> #********************
[15:31:54] <grommit> [CHARGEPUMP_0]
[15:31:56] <grommit> OUTPUT_SCALE = 100
[15:31:57] <grommit> VALUE = 50
[15:32:21] <skunkworks> 50 hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.scale
[15:32:29] <grommit> ah, I see a cut/paste error in hal...
[15:32:32] <skunkworks> the scale is set to 50... for some reason
[15:32:38] <grommit> hang on...
[15:35:55] <skunkworks> with halcmd - you can figure out what is happening pin wise.. really helps with troubleshooting
[15:36:12] <skunkworks> plus you can sets and setp within it to test things.
[15:36:14] <grommit> nope didn't help. I changed: setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.scale [CHARGEPUMP_0]VALUE to setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value [CHARGEPUMP_0]VALUE
[15:36:27] <skunkworks> (among tons of other things)
[15:37:29] <grommit> can I show a specific thing in halcmd?
[15:37:46] <grommit> Like "show hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.scale" doesn't work...
[15:37:47] <skunkworks> show pin name
[15:37:52] <Jymmm> grommit Not without getting arrested
[15:38:02] <grommit> :-)
[15:38:29] <Jymmm> grommit: Well, excpet in the city of SF, then you can show anything you want
[15:38:35] <grommit> show chargepump-val doesn't either...
[15:43:16] <skunkworks> show sig charge*
[15:43:37] <skunkworks> is the val still 0?
[15:43:44] <grommit> yes :-(
[15:43:52] <skunkworks> I think the issue probably is that you should be setting the signal...
[15:44:35] <skunkworks> so sets chargepump-val [CHARGEPUMP_0]VALUE
[15:44:55] <skunkworks> it probably when the signal gets hooked to the pin - gets set to the signal value which is 0
[15:45:16] <grommit> so do I also change scale from setp to sets?
[15:45:40] <skunkworks> no - that should be fine - you are not connecting that to a signal.
[15:46:14] <skunkworks> and that set corrctly (when you used the right variable from the ini)
[15:47:15] <skunkworks> makes sense so far?
[15:47:44] <skunkworks> you have to swim though hal a few times to see what is happining
[15:47:51] <grommit> it crashed
[15:48:03] <grommit> says...
[15:48:31] <Jymmm> ...Then hit the HazMat Team for decontamination when/if you hit the surface.
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[15:48:32] <grommit> signal 'hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value' not found
[15:50:04] <skunkworks> what? hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value is not a signal? are you sets'int it somewhere?
[15:50:14] <skunkworks> sets'ing
[15:50:53] <skunkworks> you want net chargepump-val => hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value
[15:51:04] <skunkworks> and sets chargepump-val [CHARGEPUMP_0]VALUE
[15:51:04] <grommit> here is what I have:
[15:51:11] <grommit> setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.output-type 1
[15:51:13] <grommit> setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.scale [CHARGEPUMP_0]OUTPUT_SCALE
[15:51:15] <grommit> sets hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value [CHARGEPUMP_0]VALUE
[15:51:17] <grommit> net chargepump-val => hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value
[15:51:18] <grommit> net chargepump-enable => hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.enable
[15:51:20] <grommit> sets chargepump-enable true
[15:52:08] <grommit> oh, I see what you want... hang on....
[15:52:47] <grommit> do I remove sets hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value [CHARGEPUMP_0]VALUE ?
[15:53:32] <skunkworks> yes - although you could do it that way...
[15:54:18] <skunkworks> (just with setp and getting rid of the net chargepump-val => hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value line
[15:54:40] <Jymmm> Speaking of HAL, anyone john lately?
[15:54:47] <grommit> oh, so that was my original error then?
[15:54:56] <grommit> I shouldn't have had both?
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[15:55:45] <skunkworks> heh - you can do it both ways - either setp the pin directly without connecting it to a signal. Or sets the signal
[15:56:08] <skunkworks> clear as mud?
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[15:56:44] <grommit> Cool. And it works. And I set it back to what I had (and removed the "net chargepump-val => hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value
[15:56:47] <grommit> and that works too
[15:56:53] <grommit> Now to get it out of estop
[15:58:08] <skunkworks> cool. Biab
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[16:12:07] <Jymmm> Heh, "Industrial computer"... http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-intel-atom-d525-cpu-gma-3150-graphics-card-industrial-computer-host-gold-green-67546
[16:13:13] <skunkworks> how did your estop work before? I invison something like rung 4 here - http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Sample_HAL_And_ClassicLadder except the Q0 would be enabling your pwmgen..
[16:14:09] <skunkworks> And i1 would be your signal back from the bob
[16:15:15] <grommit> Ok, I need a bit to read that...
[16:16:55] <grommit> that is currently greek....
[16:17:45] <skunkworks> heh - it was all greek to me.. and now http://youtu.be/jAcFeVlftrw
[16:19:05] <grommit> The instructions also assume that you know something about LadderProgramming.
[16:19:21] <grommit> that is a quote from the page (and applies to me) :-)
[16:19:30] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Um, that's not rigid tapping, is it?
[16:19:53] <cradek> yes it's rigid, it's a tap in a drill chuck
[16:19:59] <cradek> crazily enough
[16:20:53] <skunkworks> I do crazy
[16:20:57] <Jymmm> I thought rigid tapping was a fix tool with a smaler diameter than the hole, that follows the contour of threds
[16:21:00] <skunkworks> ;)
[16:21:07] <cradek> no, that's called thread milling
[16:21:24] <Jymmm> ah
[16:21:25] <cradek> rigid tapping means a tap held rigidly (no tension/compression flex)
[16:21:30] <skunkworks> pfff - even mach can do thread milling..
[16:21:54] <Jymmm> lol
[16:22:09] <Jymmm> Oh, in that case... Lets everyone use MACH now!
[16:22:19] <cradek> yes that only requires making a helical path and an expensive thread mill
[16:23:48] <Jymmm> cradek: is a thread mill like a tool with a tooth (sorta kinda)?
[16:24:03] <cradek> yep that's one kind
[16:24:15] <cradek> others have many teeth, but same idea
[16:24:19] <Jymmm> k
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[16:29:51] <skunkworks> thinking about it more.. I see something like your pwmgen enabled by 'user-enable-out' I1 would be your signal back from the bob - and Q0 would be hooked to emc-enable-in (and I2 is user-request-enable)
[16:31:14] <skunkworks> pretty much what you see - except you also have to enable your pwmgen with I0
[16:31:49] <skunkworks> but I might be missing something
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[17:21:04] <jtektool> is there anyway to initiate gcode from a bash scipt?
[17:21:22] <jtektool> *script
[17:22:57] <jtektool> currently we are making circuit board testers with pneumatics cylinders
[17:23:19] <jtektool> was thinking of replacing them with servos
[17:23:37] <jtektool> so the code would be a one shot deal
[17:25:16] <jtektool> our customers are not so into using linux but if i made an embedded system that could take input from where the process is there would be no need for axis or touchy
[17:25:28] <archivist> I have a feeling once you fully learn EMC2 you wont want/need that
[17:25:32] <jtektool> or whatevr if it was done by a script
[17:26:15] <jtektool> but is it possible
[17:26:18] <jtektool> ?
[17:26:31] <archivist> there are some controlling a remote emc from a windows box
[17:26:45] <jtektool> through vnc or something or other
[17:26:49] <jtektool> ?
[17:26:53] <archivist> nml messages
[17:27:08] <jtektool> ok
[17:35:21] <grommit> Sorry, skunkworks. Got pulled away...
[17:37:12] <grommit> My machine comes out of estop now, but I am not sure if I like how it works.... I was missing a wire which caused the indication not to register on the Mesa card. Now it is but here is how it works...
[17:38:24] <grommit> The software estop button in axis doesn't seem to do anything.
[17:39:04] <grommit> Well, that isn't quite true... If I push the physical switch it shows estop on Axis, but I cannot toggle the Axis estop button at all.
[17:39:56] <grommit> That means, that if the physical button is out (not in estop), then I cannot press the software estop in axis and have it do anything.
[17:40:30] <grommit> My hal config is:
[17:40:32] <grommit> # ---estop signals---
[17:40:33] <grommit> net estop-out <= iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[17:40:35] <grommit> net estop-signal => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[17:40:37] <grommit> # --- Estop Indication ---
[17:40:39] <grommit> setp hm2_7i43.0.gpio.023.is_output false
[17:40:40] <grommit> net estop-signal <= hm2_7i43.0.gpio.023.in_not
[17:41:01] <Connor> use pastebin.ca or something..
[17:42:45] <grommit> sorry, it was only 7 lines..
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[17:51:37] <skunkworks> I think you should look at the ladder examples... That being said - I would hook the estop-out to the enable of the pwmgen.. See what that does..
[17:53:46] <skunkworks> so - instead of the what you have for the pwmgen enable... you would have net estop-out hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.enable
[17:58:29] <grommit> hmm, something is not quite right with that.
[17:58:47] <grommit> But it is close...
[17:59:17] <skunkworks> I would guess - if you push the external estop - once you release it - it goes out of estop.
[18:00:56] <skunkworks> that is where rung 4 works the best (for me anyways) the gui button works - external button works. but only the gui can bring the machine out of estop. (as long as the external estops are all out)
[18:01:23] <grommit> The Axis button responds to the external button, no matter what. If I have the external button pushed, I can then click on the Axis button and the charge pump gets enabled (not what I want).
[18:01:55] <grommit> But once the charge pump is enabled, I can't click on the Axis button to disable it...oddd
[18:02:51] <skunkworks> I think what you have right now is type 3
[18:02:56] <skunkworks> in effect
[18:03:05] <grommit> Your description sounds like what I want but that isn't what I have at the moment...
[18:04:13] <skunkworks> yeck
[18:05:24] <skunkworks> I guess I though that the external estop would kill the bob without the need for emc...
[18:05:28] <grommit> I am confused on something... what allows me to use the Axis button?
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[18:08:01] <skunkworks> are you saying that you need emc to disable the watchdog when the external estop is pressed?
[18:09:07] <Jymmm> O_o
[18:09:15] <Jymmm> Gawd, I hope not.
[18:09:26] <skunkworks> ditto
[18:09:29] <grommit> I don't think so
[18:10:13] <grommit> What I want is that when I press the external estop (when things are running), it also tells EMC that there has been an estop and so the Axis estop button reacts accordingly
[18:11:39] <Jymmm> grommit: what BOB or chargepump are you using?
[18:11:46] <grommit> Also, to make things work (from stopped) the Axis estop button should have to be pressed IN ADDITION TO the physical estop button being pulled out.
[18:12:03] <grommit> I am pretty sure this is your Type 4
[18:12:14] <skunkworks> I really think you need to look at rung 4..
[18:12:17] <skunkworks> ;)
[18:12:23] <grommit> The BOB is a Mesa 7i43. The chargepump is a pwmgen off same
[18:12:47] <grommit> I see it. I am just not sure how to turn that into a HAL config.
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[18:13:22] <Jymmm> Ok, so you dont have a REAL (mechancial) estop ?
[18:13:35] <grommit> YES, I do
[18:13:46] <Jymmm> BRB (Big Red Button) connected to a safety relay?
[18:13:54] <grommit> Yes
[18:14:07] <Jymmm> which safety relay?
[18:14:13] <Jymmm> make/model
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[18:15:29] <grommit> It is 125VDC 20A Tyco. It is bigger than my fist!
[18:15:53] <Jymmm> grommit: That's the ratngs, I'm asking for the MODEL #
[18:16:22] <Jymmm> grommit: and is this a RELAY -or- SAFETY RELAY ?
[18:16:34] <grommit> I have a large dump resistor as well. If the estop fires, the power supply is dumped through the relay and dump resistor
[18:17:49] <grommit> It isn't really relevant but.... PRD-11AHO-120
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[18:18:56] <Jymmm> grommit: Um, that is _NOT_ a safety relay.
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[18:19:20] <grommit> http://www.geckodrive.com/ark-2/support.html?pid=16&id=36
[18:19:44] <Jymmm> grommit: That has a major flaw in that design.
[18:19:58] <grommit> which is?
[18:20:22] <Jymmm> grommit: If you try to wire a relay like shown in that link, making it a latching relay circuit...
[18:20:47] <Jymmm> If you hold the PWR_ON button down, it will defeat the E-STOP portion of it.
[18:20:57] <grommit> Yes, I know.
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[18:21:17] <Jymmm> So, if the ON button was defective or wires shorted, you no longer have an E-STOP circuit
[18:21:35] <grommit> Yes, I know.
[18:22:55] <grommit> I also have a charge pump in line with this circuit which will fire the estop if the chargepump stops. So... to get back to configuring EMC....
[18:22:55] <Jymmm> This is a safety relay http://www.sti.com/relays/SR102AM/index.htm
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[18:24:49] <Jymmm> grommit: If you understand the risks, ok. But the estop circuit you're using may defeat the purpose of having an EMERGENCY STOP, as opposed to an "OH SHIT, I forgot..." button.
[18:25:09] <grommit> I do fully understand.
[18:25:14] <grommit> really, I do.
[18:25:24] <grommit> I appreciate the advice.
[18:25:46] <grommit> I still want to configure what I have to work.
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[18:26:05] <grommit> I will hold no one else but myself responsible
[18:26:22] <grommit> On my honor
[18:28:43] <grommit> I swear on my mothers grave.
[18:30:05] <psha> grommit: good evening
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[18:31:19] <grommit> Hi psha. how are you doing?
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[18:35:38] <grommit> skunkworks, did you you give up on me?
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[18:42:56] <psha> fine
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[18:48:00] <skunkworks> grommit: sorry - in and out
[18:48:19] <grommit> no problem. just been reading various things...that haven't helped :-)
[18:50:34] <skunkworks> grommit: question - does loosing the watchdog signal make the estop in pin toggle?
[18:51:18] <grommit> how can I tell (how can I loose the watchdog signal)?
[18:51:49] <skunkworks> I mean - when your external circuit looses the watchdog signal - is it hooked into the estop circuit some how so it changes? (your external bob)
[18:52:54] <skunkworks> or is the external estop separate from the external watchdog?
[18:52:55] <grommit> Oh. yes, then the charge pump waveform stops, it fires the whole estop circuit. I assume that is what you are asking
[18:53:05] <skunkworks> yes - ok
[18:53:45] <skunkworks> something to look at is - I think the config called classicladder or such - has the estop rungs in it.
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[18:53:54] <skunkworks> sample config
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[18:54:20] <skunkworks> that is how I started was with the classicladder bits from that config
[18:55:06] <grommit> where are those configs? I don't see them in my installation...
[18:57:07] <skunkworks> it is under demo_sim_cl
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[19:00:01] <grommit> LOL, the only bit of estop in there is: net estop-out => parport.0.pin-01-out
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[19:00:27] <grommit> These two lines are commented out:
[19:00:33] <grommit> # net estop-out <= iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[19:00:35] <grommit> # net estop-out => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
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[19:00:51] <skunkworks> heh - yes - but it has the ladder stuff.. bring that config up and under file - ladder editor - you will see the rungs.
[19:01:30] <skunkworks> so you can take the ladder bits out of the hal files and put them into yours - don't forget to copy the clp file also)
[19:02:00] <skunkworks> then it is just hooking the classic ladder pins to the pins in hal the will make it work, :)
[19:02:00] <grommit> I haven't used the ladder editor, I don't even know where it is. Apparently I need to back to the drawing board :-)
[19:02:08] <skunkworks> really it isn't as bad as it seems
[19:02:30] <grommit> It wouldn't seem bad if I had any idea where any of this stuff was! :-)
[19:02:51] <skunkworks> the ladder editor is a bit odd - but once you figure your way around - it isn't too bad
[19:03:19] <skunkworks> in axis - if classicladder is setup in hal and such - you can get to it from within axis. (under the file menu)
[19:03:31] <grommit> OH
[19:03:52] <grommit> ah, it is greyed out
[19:03:55] <skunkworks> so if you bring up the sample config - you can edit the ladder
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[19:05:39] <grommit> when I start emc I get the EMC2 Configuration Selector and the CL stuff isn't in there. How do I get to specify where to look?
[19:10:15] <skunkworks> hmm - odd
[19:10:41] <grommit> my sample files are only in: /usr/share/doc/emc2/examples/sample-configs/classicladder
[19:10:57] <grommit> I cannot figure out how to start emc using these
[19:11:20] <skunkworks> you can get the files from http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=tree;f=configs/demo_sim_cl;h=6e26067be96977238d147b7cf70d4817b4f8d52b;hb=HEAD
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[19:15:19] <skunkworks> odd - normmally you can pick those configs and then it will ask you if you want to copy them to your home folder
[19:15:45] <skunkworks> maybe missing a path in the ini or such
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[19:19:54] <grommit> I give up.
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[19:21:11] <grommit> thanks for the effort skunkworks. sorry to waste your day too!
[19:24:53] <skunkworks> no - I can multi-task
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[19:25:28] <skunkworks> you can setup the classic ladder manually - but it is easier to see one setup that you know works
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[19:31:51] <Jymmm> or... "No, I can waste my day all on my own"
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[20:01:03] <A2Sheds> Renishaw, Balluff, Austriamicrosystems, Maxmar or ASM for magnetic linear encoders? Anyone have a favorite or particularly dislike any?
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[20:08:23] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Were you the one harassing me about my laser cutting table?
[20:12:40] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[20:12:46] <Tom_itx> i never harass anybody
[20:12:50] <Tom_itx> :)
[20:13:23] <Tom_itx> why? did you _FINALLY_ get it done?
[20:13:34] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: LOL, well... let me write this up, then you can "not" harrass me anymore.
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[20:18:04] <Jymmm> Tom_itx, etc all... http://codepad.org/kL6GiLU6
[20:18:18] <Jymmm> http://oi54.tinypic.com/24zd6x4.jpg
[20:23:58] <Jymmm> This is in essense of what the cutting table insert will be, with the HC on top. The opening to the left is what will be facing the exhaust ports and will have whatever diverter I come up with http://oi55.tinypic.com/23l04gl.jpg
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[21:24:09] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: you don't have that done yet??????
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[21:32:55] <A2Sheds> anyone know a low cost source for 5um linear optical encoders?
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[21:47:28] <andypugh> A2Sheds: Theft?
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[21:50:21] <A2Sheds> it seems they only sell steaks and speakers out of the trunks of cars around here
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[21:52:32] <A2Sheds> things you'll probably never hear at a truck stop "hey buddy, you wanna buy some nice 5um optical encoders 30cm long with rs-422 output?"
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[22:07:46] <andypugh> Maybe you could make your own?
[22:10:23] <andypugh> Copy this: http://www.newall.com/technology/
[22:10:35] <andypugh> Do the processing in an Arduino.
[22:11:30] <andypugh> I am fairly sure that my Resolver shield for the arduino can capture the data. You would have to figure out what it means for yourself.
[22:11:46] <andypugh> (Winding the coils seems trivial)
[22:12:27] <andypugh> You will end up with an encoder that measures in very random units. But that's the sort of thing that software can fix.
[22:14:13] <andypugh> skunkworks might have some ideas what you see, though I am not sure he has tried the Arduino-accupins combination yet.
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[22:15:12] <A2Sheds> just found some NIB old stock for ~$100 ea
[22:15:51] <andypugh> $100 is what, £10?
[22:15:54] <andypugh> :-)
[22:16:03] <A2Sheds> soon :)
[22:16:35] <A2Sheds> then again you guys are dealing with the same bankers we are
[22:17:06] <andypugh> Yeah, we stopped mining stuff a long time ago
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[22:17:34] <andypugh> So create no actual wealth,
[22:18:14] <A2Sheds> it's our Evil Genius plan to get people to stop buying goods from China, drop the value of our currency to make Chinese products expensive
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[22:20:23] <andypugh> Having said that, and this reminds me to a conversation at the weekend about renewable/nuclear energy, at some point we will need enough energy to get raw elements from landfill sites. The elements are immutable, but we are diluting them in childrens toys, unfashionable clothing, last-years TV..
[22:21:05] <andypugh> Actually, TVs are quite a high-grade ore.
[22:22:15] <A2Sheds> 60-90 year old billionaire sociopaths don't care, they won't be around for it to bother them
[22:22:27] <TeslaTony> With the right processing techniques, trash is a very nice mining resource
[22:23:21] <andypugh> Hmm, having just said we don't make anything, I find this: http://www.newall.co.uk/story/?stid=20
[22:24:46] <A2Sheds> I wonder what the pricing is for the Newall encoders
[22:24:57] <andypugh> It appears there is a CNC machine toole manufacturer just up the road.
[22:26:10] <A2Sheds> http://www.plccenter.com/Shop/NEWALL/MS250305/USPP?source=GoogleShopping
[22:26:46] <andypugh> That's just the scale, by the looks of things.
[22:27:57] <andypugh> I reckon you could make your own (possibly rather non-linear one) then calibrate it with rented laser gear.
[22:28:03] <A2Sheds> http://www.plccenter.com/Buy/NEWALL/MHGTT
[22:28:43] <A2Sheds> I need 2 by next week, when I need hundreds I might start building my own
[22:29:00] <andypugh> That's a volume thing, I guess. If they could sell a million a year they would be $20
[22:29:48] <A2Sheds> their pricing is about the same as mag encoders from Balluff
[22:30:21] <andypugh> The metrology industry gets bogged down in being absolutely spot-on out the door. It is much cheaper to be repeatable but wrong, and fix the wrong part in calibration.
[22:30:56] <A2Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-Renishaw-5-m-Optical-Linear-Encoder-PN-RGH22-/270542622948?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3efd98d0e4
[22:31:12] <andypugh> A company I used to work for in Colchester used to manage sub-micron positioning with conventional screw threads.
[22:31:19] <A2Sheds> I might get them to mount on a couple of sharks with lasers
[22:32:33] <andypugh> I don't know what they are, but I want them
[22:32:44] <andypugh> You see the pivots?
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[22:33:22] <A2Sheds> beam steering assembly's with voice coils for steering, the encoders are for position feedback
[22:33:27] <andypugh> I have some of those in my kitchen drawer. Lucas frictionless pivots. Lovely things.
[22:34:15] <andypugh> http://www.flexpivots.com/doubleendedpivotbearings.asp
[22:34:37] <A2Sheds> "just add laser"
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[22:35:49] <andypugh> The encoders in that assembly are actually quite mundane. They are simple CCD triangulation devices
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[22:37:19] <andypugh> Actually, could you use them? http://www.flexpivots.com/doubleendedpivotbearings.asp
[22:37:24] <andypugh> Wrong link.
[22:37:40] <andypugh> http://www.micro-epsilon.co.uk/displacement-position-sensors/laser-sensor/optoNCDT_1402_basic/index.html
[22:39:08] <andypugh> Maybe not cheaper, after further "research"
[22:39:14] <A2Sheds> yeah, it's a slow 2 axis stage
[22:40:39] <A2Sheds> I used the America EN tab so I could read it :)
[22:41:26] <andypugh> micro-epsilon do a really nice distance sensor which actually uses chromatic abberation in a special lens. A ccd measures the colour of the focussed spot, and determines displacement to the _difference_ in wavelength between red and less-red.
[22:42:09] <A2Sheds> any idea of the price for .5m range?
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[22:43:21] <A2Sheds> ouch! http://www.plccenter.com/Shop/MICRO%20EPSILON/ILD1800100LASER/USPP?source=GoogleShopping
[22:44:10] <andypugh> Not cheaper than magnetic scales, I am fairly sure. If you can't wait for second-hand parts it is probably a non-starter. When I was looking at them they were a few £hundred
[22:45:00] <A2Sheds> if I pick up the beam steering devices I'll make you a deal on the pivots
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[22:45:38] <A2Sheds> they already sold 17 , only 2 left
[22:45:43] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Still working on the deflecter part, got any ideas?
[22:47:06] <andypugh> Keyence and others also make them. They are very simple, a laser diode, a lens and a linear CCD. The displacement is determined by which pixel is brightest.
[22:51:42] <A2Sheds> http://www.keyence.com/products/positioning/application/ig/ig.php
[22:53:14] <andypugh> That's a different thing, that uses CCD and a shadow.
[22:54:33] <andypugh> i meant these: http://www.keyence.com/products/measure/laser/lkg5000/lkg5000.php
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[22:55:41] <andypugh> You _don't_ want to pay for that one, but the same idea is available more cheaply
[22:56:14] <A2Sheds> yeah, either you don't need them at all or you need them yesterday
[22:56:53] <A2Sheds> hardy anyone keeps stock on hand in the US
[22:57:55] <andypugh> Nice pictures of how it works here: http://www.measurecentral.com/products/lkg/advanced_ccd.php
[22:58:00] <A2Sheds> Reinshaw has their US office near me, i can pick up the same day
[22:58:05] <andypugh> (And again, no pricing)
[22:58:57] <jdhNC> keyence has pricing if you log in
[22:59:58] <andypugh> I think he should buy from Renishaw or Newall. Help the UK bakance of payments deficit.
[23:00:28] <jdhNC> heh, afaik, we use neither of them for anything
[23:00:41] <jdhNC> lots of keyence, banner, turck
[23:02:02] <A2Sheds> I usually have to work with what's in stock within a week
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[23:02:28] <andypugh> The newall Spherosyn looks like a really good solution when occasionally submerged in coolant, it ought to be entirely impervious.
[23:03:07] <A2Sheds> for 20um res or higher I can get low cost polyester optical strips out of japan for a few $$
[23:03:50] <andypugh> I just found the world's least useful DTI: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEWALL-MERCER-MICRO-LOCATOR-/270810499448
[23:04:00] <A2Sheds> it's just the 10um and lower devices that are more difficult to find in stock
[23:04:44] <A2Sheds> the marking are just secret, you need the special glasses
[23:06:20] <andypugh> Does anyone want any tiny boring bars? I am bidding on a job-lot of P Horn solid carbide supermini bars. Thing is, the lot is worth about £1k retail, but only £50 to me for a few of them.
[23:06:46] <andypugh> Looking at the pcture they probably bore down to 1/8"
[23:07:51] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-NEW-PH-HORN-SUPERMINI-R105-BORING-INSERTS-CNC-LATHE-/290605951460
[23:09:10] <andypugh> Hmm, actualy 110 total at about £20 each retail. I understimated.
[23:09:56] <andypugh> If anyone wants to bid £50 for half of them..
[23:11:00] <DaViruz> maybe i'll bid 80 for all of them
[23:11:26] <andypugh> Nice videos here: http://www.phorn.com/products/grooving/
[23:11:54] <andypugh> DaViruz: Feel free to sell me the spares if you do.
[23:12:20] <andypugh> I reckon they will get sniped up to quite a lot more.
[23:12:45] <DaViruz> that seems likely
[23:13:10] <andypugh> I would do it myself, but I don't actually _need_ more than half a dozen of them.
[23:13:32] <andypugh> The ones I do have are brilliant for pulley bores and that sort of thing.
[23:15:31] <andypugh> I will admit to a £63 snipe set up, but I would pay that much for one from each box. The problem is not the relative cost but the absolute cost, if you see what I mean.
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[23:32:09] <A2Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-linear-encoder-sheet-scale-strip-lenght-100-/260786982345?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb81d8dc9 ~40um markings
[23:32:22] <A2Sheds> 100" for $65
[23:32:57] <andypugh> But how much for the read head?
[23:33:11] <A2Sheds> probably ~$35
[23:34:11] <A2Sheds> many of the smaller printers use the same scale strip
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[23:35:39] <A2Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Epson-Stylus-Pro-7880-Encoder-Strip-PCB-Assy-2105136-/220821155537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3369f76ed1 $25 for an Epson
[23:36:05] <A2Sheds> or look for old scrap inkjets
[23:37:31] <andypugh> I found a SMD photodetector for £2 that would probably work.
[23:37:46] <andypugh> (on-chip quadrature)
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[23:43:47] <andypugh> PCW: Once again I have failed to find the motivation and the time simultaneously to look at that 7i64 issue. Have you any ideas where we should be looking?
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