#emc | Logs for 2011-09-05

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[00:00:07] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I JUST had it done to me for the first time a week ago, though I was aware of the custom, first time I've been asked.
[00:00:23] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: PITA too
[00:00:33] <Tom_itx> yup
[00:01:05] <Tom_itx> kinda makes me feel like their shit don't stink or something
[00:01:13] <Jymmm> LOL
[00:01:20] <andypugh> My ex was strongly against shoes in her house (and it was definitely her house we lived in)
[00:01:39] <Jymmm> Eh, he just spent $10K on new flooring, so...
[00:01:54] <Tom_itx> that's different
[00:01:55] <frysteev> you should have just spent 10k on a new wife
[00:02:07] <frysteev> you can deduct that expense from your shoop
[00:02:12] <andypugh> Well, they were allowed in the house, but came off on the doormat and got put in the downstairs loo, on a rack for the purpose.
[00:02:35] <Jymmm> frysteev: Ha! He's spent $235K USD in remodeling his house.
[00:03:01] <andypugh> Eek! You could machine a house from solid for that!
[00:03:12] <Jymmm> Jaw dropped when I saw the price of the dish washer alone... $2300
[00:03:17] <Tom_itx> not in Ca
[00:03:39] <Tom_itx> i bet it didn't work any better than mine
[00:03:43] <Jymmm> two of those drawer type dish washers
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[00:04:05] <Jymmm> It's very cool, but fsck me!
[00:04:14] <frysteev> with a dishwasher?
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[00:04:35] <Tom_itx> i bet most euro's don't even know what they are :)
[00:04:41] <Jymmm> frysteev: If that was humor, try harder next time.
[00:04:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: why's that?
[00:04:52] <Tom_itx> i sure didn't get the whole towel warmer thing
[00:05:29] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you sure you're not confusing that with a massage parlor?
[00:05:37] <Jymmm> brb, lighting bbq
[00:06:03] <Tom_itx> she watches all these home remodel shows...
[00:07:00] <andypugh> Well, talking projects, this is what I built this weekend. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/HdNJXBD5wPqDUi9E8C46HQ?feat=directlink
[00:07:11] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/dTcU2i7GYh53xSrqjh--BQ?feat=directlink
[00:07:54] <Valen> i have a pair of blundstones
[00:08:00] <Valen> no problems with them picking up chips
[00:08:16] <Valen> they are also really comfertable
[00:09:40] <andypugh> I really like the Neutrik Powercon Connectors. They are small, lock in place, and are rated at 20A 250V. They are also reasonably cheap.
[00:10:18] <Jymmm> andypugh: pic?
[00:10:37] <andypugh> Jymmm: Err? 4 posts back?
[00:10:58] <Valen> http://www.blundstone.com/products/btough/ style 143
[00:11:06] <Jymmm> ah, the speaker connectors
[00:11:41] <andypugh> Well, these are the 3-pole pre-engaged Earth PowerCON conectors. But I use the 4-pole speaker ones for steppers/3-phase
[00:11:43] <Valen> its the TPU outersole that does it
[00:11:53] <Jymmm> andypugh: =)
[00:12:00] <Valen> i've been wearing them for 2 years and the tread is still fine
[00:12:03] <Jymmm> I need to find a heatercore!
[00:12:12] <jthornton> andypugh: what are the gold finned bits on the side?
[00:12:31] <Tom_itx> dump resistors probably
[00:12:46] <Jymmm> Do you think 150F water running thru a heatercore will be enough to bring room temp up to 70+F ?
[00:12:58] <Jymmm> from (lets say) 40F ?
[00:13:06] <Tom_itx> ask rue
[00:13:07] <andypugh> Power resistors, one is for stop start. switched out by the timer circuit on the right after 6 seconds, and the other discharges the caps on power-off.
[00:13:25] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Rue?
[00:13:31] <jthornton> ah, I've never seen a resistor like that
[00:13:32] <andypugh> Sorry, I meant to say "one is for soft start"
[00:13:34] <Valen> we are about to re carpet our house, we are going to use carpet tiles ;->
[00:13:37] <Tom_itx> yes rue
[00:13:38] <Tom_itx> in robotics
[00:13:46] <Tom_itx> he's doing a heatplant
[00:13:48] <Valen> its not so much the temperature you care about its the heat
[00:14:04] <Valen> temp * volume * efficency of heat transfer
[00:15:06] <andypugh> jthornton: 100W 50ohm. They only cost a couple of quid each.
[00:15:40] <jthornton> I've just not seen them packaged that way before, kinda neat
[00:15:59] <Valen> IE a cigarette lighter its very hot, but doesn't have much heat, Vs say a room heater, not as hot, but much more heat
[00:16:03] <andypugh> I do have another capacitor of the same size, but it was too tight a fit. 6600uF @ 375V is scary enough anyway.
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[00:18:39] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, he's N of you N of vancouver
[00:20:07] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: probably enjoying the weekend
[00:20:31] <andypugh> Strange, it isn't common to see the same thing cheaper in the UK than the US: http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Arcol/NHS100-50-1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtlubZbdhIBIGRBweP1h8p0WvqLQXn4kxo%3d v http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/high-power/2522928/
[00:20:31] <Tom_itx> he'll be around before the night ends i bet
[00:20:52] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: My biggest thought is recovering from the temp drop when I turn on the fan.
[00:21:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: The water heater has a 27K BTU burner, but is tankless, thugh it will be a closed-loop (recirculating) system
[00:21:54] <Tom_itx> you saw his site on his heatplant?
[00:22:15] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yeah, the ghetto junk yard eco heatplant thingy
[00:22:24] <andypugh> Jymmm: You need to calculate the heat loss from the building at the required temperature, that will tell you how much power you need.
[00:22:28] <Tom_itx> it's rather disorganized
[00:23:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Hey, if I was testing soemthing like that, I'd ghetto/junk yard the parts too. Rather than get nickled and dimed to death at the hardware store.
[00:23:31] <Jymmm> just one brass fitting is expensive anymore.
[00:24:40] <andypugh> Jymmm: The calculator on this web site might help: http://www.sedbuk.com/whole_house.htm
[00:24:53] <Jymmm> If anyone knows... what relevance does the THICKNESS of a heatercore give you?
[00:25:19] <Jymmm> 1" vs 2" thick?
[00:25:51] <archivist> thermal resistance
[00:26:36] <Jymmm> archivist: It'll disapate heater faster?
[00:26:40] <Jymmm> -er
[00:26:41] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, he's done alot of calcs on heat though
[00:26:41] <Tom_itx> most of his projects are done on the cheap
[00:26:51] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: works for me =)
[00:27:10] <andypugh> Jymmm: I just calculated that a 23k BTU boiler will heat a 20' x 30' x 9' house.
[00:27:47] <archivist> in what climate with what insulation!
[00:27:59] <andypugh> That was "South West England"
[00:28:53] <andypugh> (Actually, now you mention it, I am not sure what random sizes I put in)
[00:29:07] <andypugh> But I think I said 4 x 4 x 3 m
[00:29:15] <Jymmm> SF Bay Area (36F winter) no insulation, peaked roof @ 13ft.
[00:29:26] <Tom_itx> Jymmm
[00:29:32] <andypugh> So, that's 12' x 12' isn't it? Sorry.
[00:29:33] <archivist> no insulation!
[00:29:42] <Jymmm> archivist: tell me about it
[00:30:01] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, rue is in da house now
[00:30:09] <andypugh> And they wonder why the US has such high CO2 emissions..
[00:30:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ah, thanks
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[00:32:40] <Jymmm> andypugh: archivist If you care, I found this one a ways back... http://www.heatershop.com/btu_calculator.htm
[00:33:02] <andypugh> And what does it say?
[00:33:12] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'm fucked =)
[00:33:55] <andypugh> It occurs to me that birds live wild in these parts, and generally don't have gas heaters in their nests.
[00:34:38] <archivist> they just hide in a hedge
[00:34:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: In these parts, they have jacuzzis, breakfast in bed, and daily snacks delivered.
[00:35:24] <Jymmm> andypugh: It says I need 48K BTU/hr
[00:36:22] <Jymmm> Mind you this is EMERGENCY heat, not day-to-day thing.
[00:36:34] <archivist> and you believe all the websites
[00:36:41] <Jymmm> avian safe emergency heat specifically
[00:37:04] <andypugh> Why are you messing about with "heatercores" (whatever they are) rather than just using normal radiators?
[00:37:33] <archivist> just puts an electrically heated floor in the cage
[00:38:28] <Jymmm> andypugh: This is for when no power and/or furnance dies at 9pm on a saturday. the HWH (hot water heater) is outdoor propane fired.
[00:38:29] <andypugh> Just plumb in as many of these as you need. One for each bird if necessary: http://www.screwfix.com/p/kudox-premium-type-11-single-panel-single-convector-radiator-white-300x600/76575
[00:38:56] <andypugh> Yes, I know all that. So why not just plumb it into radiators?
[00:39:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: I rent
[00:39:21] <andypugh> And?
[00:39:52] <Jymmm> and what? I can't just install things at ramdom and that one you linked to requires electricity.
[00:40:27] <andypugh> No i doesn't, it needs a supply of hot water from a boiler.
[00:41:28] <Jymmm> andypugh: radiator/boiler heat in the West Coast is very rare, that's an East coast thing
[00:41:46] <andypugh> Yes, but it is what you seem to be re-inventing.
[00:42:22] <Jymmm> andypugh: Sure, with a fan blowing on a heatercore
[00:42:24] <andypugh> So, you have uninsulated houses, and no heating?
[00:42:45] <andypugh> What is a "heatercore"?
[00:42:58] <Jymmm> we have a wall furnace, but it's old and I had to borrow parts from the other one last year,
[00:43:03] <Tom_itx> water core from an auto heater
[00:43:20] <andypugh> Ah!
[00:43:23] <Jymmm> andypugh: It's a mini radiator in a car that gives you cabin heat.
[00:43:27] <Tom_itx> small radiator
[00:43:39] <archivist> heat exchanger is proper word
[00:43:43] <andypugh> Yeah, now I know what you mean.
[00:44:12] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/Ready-Aire-0399022-Heater-Core/dp/B000CH1HNK
[00:44:23] <andypugh> I would be tempted to use the actual (car) radiator.
[00:44:34] <Jymmm> andypugh: why?
[00:44:47] <andypugh> They already have a fan (or two) attached.
[00:45:10] <Tom_itx> get one from the salvage
[00:45:32] <andypugh> And a cabin heater heats a cabin, whereas a radiator is designed to dump 70kW or thereabouts into the air.
[00:45:34] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'm going to use 120mm PC fans that woun't be too loud and have a tach sensor if they stop turning
[00:46:05] <Tom_itx> it must not get cold in socal
[00:46:13] <Jymmm> andypugh: by cabin heater, you mean like this? http://www.amazon.com/Heater-MH18B-Portable-Big-Buddy/dp/B0002WRHE8
[00:46:16] <Tom_itx> where exactly are you?
[00:46:28] <Jymmm> brb, checking bbq
[00:46:42] <andypugh> No, by "cabin heater" I mean the heater from a car.
[00:47:30] <andypugh> (That's what we call them at work. As part of my job is making sure that the heater works, I assume it is the correct term)
[00:48:28] <atom1> yup
[00:49:26] <atom1> for us a cabin heater would be a fireplace in a log cabin up in the mountains somewhere
[00:49:41] <andypugh> You _could_ make a dry system, using a re-purposed intercooler from a turbo car. (it would need to be an air/air intercooler, obviously)
[00:50:24] <atom1> i think he should make one of those water heater things he posted and attach it to an exercise bike as the power source
[00:51:18] <andypugh> Anyway, time to log
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[00:51:27] <atom1> have a good evening
[00:52:49] <Jymmm> This is the propane water heater I plan on using.... http://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-L5-Portable-Tankless-Outdoor/dp/B000TXOJQ4/ref=sr_1_1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1315183949&sr=1-1
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[03:17:10] <aitalmac> I know i can set the port to be in or out, but can i switch a single pin in/out
[03:18:44] <A2Sheds> GPIO?
[03:21:33] <aitalmac> no
[03:22:45] <aitalmac> But i'm making a scheme for a machine, and i need to switch some input in output but not all of them
[03:22:54] <aitalmac> just one
[03:23:59] <aitalmac> sorry output in input
[03:26:44] <aitalmac> yes i need to invert a general purpose i/o
[03:27:38] <Tom_itx> .in_not
[03:30:18] <KimK> aitalmac: Do you need the input and its complement input, or do you need one of your inputs to be an output (or vice -versa)? What interface/driver are you running?
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[03:31:46] <aitalmac> i need one of my input to be output
[03:32:07] <aitalmac> i'm just connecting the pins to the sensors
[03:32:20] <aitalmac> or to the motors
[03:32:30] <aitalmac> driver
[03:33:02] <KimK> aitalmac: OK, what interface/driver are you running?
[03:33:59] <aitalmac> axis
[03:34:02] <aitalmac> axis interface
[03:34:18] <Tom_itx> parport, mesa card, other?
[03:34:24] <aitalmac> no partport
[03:35:27] <aitalmac> i mean i'm using the parport
[03:36:26] <aitalmac> .in_not invert the polarity does not invert in/out am i right?
[03:36:36] <Tom_itx> yes
[03:36:46] <Tom_itx> well, in would make it input
[03:36:54] <KimK> OK, I'm not a parport expert, but I think you have to move to a different (and currently unoccupied) pin that is an output, if you want an output signal.
[03:36:56] <Tom_itx> in_not inverts it
[03:37:12] <aitalmac> Then i need to invert in/out of a pin
[03:37:43] <aitalmac> ok all my pins are busy, i just have one free and i need to be reverse of what it is
[03:38:00] <aitalmac> can i do something with hal to change a pin from in to out?
[03:38:30] <KimK> You have an input and you need an output? I think you're stuck. Maybe someone will say otherwise.
[03:39:01] <A2Sheds> invert means flip the high/low state, not input to an output or output to an input
[03:39:03] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/hal_basic_hal.html
[03:40:18] <Tom_itx> that looks like a basic parport setup to me
[03:40:23] <KimK> Can you change your output circuits in such a way as to free up an output pin?
[03:40:45] <KimK> (Make an output pin become available)?
[03:41:25] <aitalmac> i can but i want to know also if i can do something with hal
[03:41:54] <A2Sheds> in State of the hardware input. in-not Inverted state of the input.
[03:42:03] <aitalmac> can i use setp in hal to set a pin to be in or out
[03:42:27] <Tom_itx> KimK, i finished up that bit building thing the other day...
[03:42:50] <aitalmac> i think not
[03:43:04] <Tom_itx> bedtime here
[03:43:14] <KimK> aitalmac: Only on interface cards where the driver supports it, like Mesa's GPIO. I don't think you can do that on a "plain vanilla" parallel port. Maybe someone will say otherwise.
[03:43:26] <KimK> Tom_itx: Goodnight
[03:43:52] <KimK> Tom_itx: Are you doing family stuff tomorrow?
[03:44:12] <aitalmac> ok get it thanks
[03:44:18] <Tom_itx> not sure what's up tomorrow really
[03:44:20] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx_install_index.php
[03:44:30] <Tom_itx> if you wanna critique it
[03:45:18] <Tom_itx> maybe just txt with less pics.. i dunno
[03:45:25] <Tom_itx> gnite
[03:45:48] <KimK> Tom_itx: OK, I'll probably be working, tomorrow, but could take time to chat at a nearby restaurant or something.
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[04:31:40] <jbunch_> how many pulses are needed from a rotary encoder on a lathe spindle for threading? do I need an index as well?
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[04:48:20] <awallin> jbunch_: you do need an index pulse to start the thread at the same place on each pass
[04:48:52] <awallin> at high rpm not much more than the index pulse might be needed, i.e. counts/rpm = 1 or 2. but something like 100counts/rev might be fine (?)
[04:49:23] <jbunch_> so 2000 with index would work?
[04:49:46] <awallin> yes, but check what max pulse rate you get up to
[04:50:04] <awallin> with a high count it can be MHz, which isn't easy for the hardware to count
[04:51:25] <jbunch_> I am using Mesa card 7i33 I think it can count to Mhz . Max spindle speed around 2-3 k
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[04:53:46] <jbunch_> awallin: Thanks Jim
[04:54:34] <jbunch_> To ebay we go....
[05:03:27] <aitalmac> i have read the hal documentation and found this In "x" mode, pins 1, 14, 16, and 17 are also input pins.
[05:03:48] <aitalmac> so there are 3 mode for the parport, in out and x???
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[06:10:30] <jbunch_> found one on ebay 500 pulse with index. Open colletor output should work with pullup resistors tied to 5 volt.
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[07:26:06] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[09:57:30] <automata> anyone have information on deep freeze type software for ubuntu-10.04
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[10:10:27] <awallin> deep freeze?
[10:27:41] <automata> it is used to prevent any changes made to the OS. It is like mounting the root partition as a read-only drive or like making a live CD out of your install
[10:28:48] <automata> I am trying to make my EMC setup power cycle with the computer ON without any problems...
[10:29:30] <automata> there are packages like fsprotect which do this. But fsprotect has broken dependencies in 10.04
[10:30:12] <automata> there is also boottoram
[10:30:55] <psha[work]> automata: use tmpfs overlay
[10:31:23] <automata> http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ubuntu-toram-how-to-make-ubuntu-boot-to-ram/
[10:31:43] <automata> psha: I have been trying to do that since you passed me the links from last week...
[10:31:57] <automata> but I am not able to get my noodle around those scripts...
[10:31:57] <psha[work]> and?
[10:32:11] <psha[work]> strange, it's not hard to do...
[10:32:27] <psha[work]> but if you have some problems you may try this
[10:32:33] <psha[work]> boot into recovery mode
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[10:32:37] <psha[work]> (init=/bin/sh)
[10:32:51] <automata> I will try again.. Now that I have 2 similar systems setup.. so If i hose one in the process, I can atleaset dd the disk...
[10:32:52] <psha[work]> you'll get busybox console with initramfs and mounted ro root
[10:33:10] <automata> noting the steps... please continue...
[10:33:12] <psha[work]> then manually do what you want - create tmpfs overlay or anything else
[10:33:33] <psha[work]> for example try to reproduce steps from my scripts - only 3 or 4 commands needed
[10:33:39] <psha[work]> then exec /bin/init
[10:33:54] <psha[work]> after you'll succed with this process move stuff into init scripts
[10:35:04] <automata> ok.. will try again tonight...
[10:35:36] <automata> BTW: I have an OS independent remote client working for EMC2
[10:35:53] <automata> would anyone be interested in that sort of a thing...
[10:36:25] <automata> It uses emcrsh and shcom to pass error messages and commands back and forth from a remote client...
[10:36:51] <automata> and it also opens a sftp connection to transfer files between the two computers...
[10:37:48] <automata> and I have connection open to HAL too...using halrmt
[10:38:12] <automata> The client is written in python and wxPython
[10:39:15] <automata> I am planning to add live backplotting features like axis. But that is all client side code... the EMC server is sending timed position information to the client already....
[10:39:53] <cncbasher> automata. i woould be interested
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[10:46:38] <automata> cncbasher: the EMC server passes the error messages to the client. But for that the local client will have to be disabled... as the local client typically acts as an error message hog...
[10:47:01] <automata> I have set my local display = dummy in my .ini file...
[10:48:00] <automata> I will try to upload my server programs this week...
[10:48:18] <cncbasher> ok look forward to trying it
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[11:47:51] <Loetmichel> *RUMMMS*
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[11:53:28] * Loetmichel had himself just picked up from the floor. To fight the bad headace with 4 paracetamol intensiv wasnt the brightest idea.. first i have still a searing headache and second i just napped off at my desk and fell off the chair... :-(
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[11:53:55] <Loetmichel> and ists about 2PM ofer here an i am at work :-(
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[12:11:35] <automata> Hi, I am trying to use the hal component timedelay
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[12:12:00] <automata> The timedelay.0.on-delay is listed as a pin in the man
[12:12:04] <automata> man pages
[12:12:35] <automata> however, I am able to set it as a parameter in my HAL file as: setp timedelay.0.on-delay 0.4
[12:13:06] <psha[work]> setp is set pin
[12:13:16] <automata> Oh OK...
[12:13:34] <psha[work]> sorry
[12:13:38] <psha[work]> (set parameter or pin)
[12:13:46] <automata> I see...
[12:14:01] <automata> how do I change its value at runtime using halrmt?
[12:14:09] <psha[work]> setp
[12:14:10] <psha[work]> :)
[12:14:14] <psha[work]> but i've not used halrmt
[12:14:35] <automata> well I will try a bash script using M100 cmds...
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[12:27:44] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, see you found rue.
[12:34:15] <automata> psha: I am trying to setup a punching type machine... where gcode file will wait till it receives an input. and after receiving that input, it needs to wait for a set period of time before going on to further processing...
[12:34:35] <automata> I am trying to use a hal pin for this... But maybe using M66 in the Gcode is a better idea??
[12:35:40] <automata> is there a gcode for "pause for a certain amount of time"?
[12:36:12] <automata> G4 dwell??
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[12:38:13] <sumpfralle> yes - G4 does it
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[12:51:36] <automata> G4!!! This removes my need for using halrmt alltogether..
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[13:04:52] <cncbasher> could anyone kindly point me to info on hobbing bevel gears
[13:06:22] <archivist> special machines normally
[13:07:46] <archivist> as the pcd varies a bevel cannot be hobbed in the normal way
[13:08:34] <cncbasher> yea i was thinking that may be tha case
[13:08:45] <JT-Shop> it's finally cooler outside than inside and the humidity is < 70%
[13:08:48] <cncbasher> but their must be a way round it
[13:08:54] * JT-Shop opens up the garage doors
[13:09:04] <JT-Shop> 5 axis?
[13:09:25] <archivist> I could write a generator for a bevel in gcode
[13:09:30] <cncbasher> JT-Shop: so long as the beer stays cool it's fine
[13:09:49] <JT-Shop> yea, I'm with you on that...
[13:10:18] <JT-Shop> cncbasher: you see the ballista?
[13:11:10] <cncbasher> i have read that it can be done , but you dont use the same cutter as you would use for involute for the same number of teeth
[13:11:34] <cncbasher> you have to calculate the teeth count differently
[13:12:09] <cncbasher> not done gear cutting , so i'm jumping in the deep unknown
[13:12:16] <archivist> the milling method is not uses a few offsets and an undersized involute cutter
[13:12:35] <archivist> is not generation
[13:12:57] <archivist> depends on needs
[13:12:59] <cncbasher> so i thought why not use emc
[13:13:35] <cncbasher> and hitch up the rotary table
[13:14:24] <archivist> even the gear milling method is 5 axis for a bevel (4th is about static anyway so could be an angle plate)
[13:14:30] <cncbasher> JT-Shop>nope not looked
[13:14:43] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/171034
[13:14:54] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/171033
[13:16:04] <cncbasher> hope you got reinforced windows , for at least 2 miles
[13:16:57] <archivist> send me a beer with it when finished
[13:17:31] <cncbasher> archivist> yea i could manage that type of setup
[13:17:40] <cncbasher> their only small gears
[13:18:10] <cncbasher> so i could cut an angle plate to suit
[13:19:14] <archivist> and for really small bevels narrow face width and ignore taper http://gears.archivist.info/gears/p1010061_bevel.jpg
[13:20:15] <cncbasher> looking at 20dp and 2:1 ratio with say 32 and 16 teeth
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[13:20:29] <cncbasher> gives you an idea
[13:22:13] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yeah, thank you =)
[13:22:22] <archivist> dont mess about get some HPC sets
[13:23:31] <archivist> http://www.hpcgears.com/products/bevel_gears.htm
[13:24:57] <cncbasher> i'l give them a ring
[13:30:49] <Jymmm> Heh... http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/scenes-from-the-2011-beautiful-bulldog-contest
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[16:03:17] <elmo40> wow, RIM is thinking of making their phones Android compatible. Virtualization anyone? http://qurl.org/RD1
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[16:38:58] <jbunch> need advice on what controller action to take when using foot brake on lathe?
[16:39:37] <syyl> hmm
[16:39:46] <syyl> brake the spindle down? *ducks*
[16:41:50] <jbunch> yes spindle foot brake.
[16:42:54] <skunkworks_> is this a manual that you are converting to cnc?
[16:45:02] <jbunch> the Yam 1428 lathe has a anilam lathemate conversion (slantbed).
[16:45:24] <skunkworks_> how did it work before?
[16:45:51] <TekniQue> wire it into the ESTOP input
[16:47:10] <jbunch> not sure how it worked before. had AhHa controller on it when purchased. I never used it.
[16:48:10] <skunkworks_> does the brake need power to release? (ie - if the power is remover the spindle will brake)
[16:48:20] <skunkworks_> *removed
[16:49:02] <jbunch> manual spindle foot brake just stops spindle when pressed.
[16:49:54] <jbunch> I am thinking pause prgram?
[16:50:37] <skunkworks_> oh - why would you hit the brake while the program is running/spindle is running
[16:51:01] <skunkworks_> ?
[16:51:28] <jbunch> in manual world to mic part. in cnc world ?
[16:56:41] <TekniQue> foot brake = emergency stop
[16:58:21] <jbunch> Makes sense Thanks.
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[17:06:50] <archivist> does the foot pedal also operate the collet closer
[17:08:05] <archivist> ie manual brake on top of collet open to change part when doing second op work
[17:08:41] <jbunch> no I do not have a collet closer.
[17:08:45] <archivist> then you want the pedal release to possibly start the program for next part
[17:11:38] <jbunch> so you are saying stop program on pressing foot peddle and start program on release.
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[17:14:34] <archivist> depends on needs, but ive seen pedals on manual production lathes for speed of operation
[17:15:42] <archivist> so the brake is not an emergency device, its a production aid in that case
[17:18:06] <jbunch> normaly the bre on the lathe is a productivity device. it is to stiop the chuck faster for part change or a quick mic of the part prior to continuing
[17:18:25] <jbunch> * brake
[17:19:55] <archivist> you could automate that
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[17:26:43] <jbunch> in what way would you suggest?
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[17:28:34] <archivist> depends on your needs and spindle facilities
[17:32:45] <jbunch> is it possable to do a program stop and return to home on brake press and then restart program at the beginng of the move that we stopped in?
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[19:57:19] <JT-Shop> oh he left
[20:00:09] <alex4nder> anyone running twisted pair for their stepper motor phases?
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[20:02:49] <archivist> alex4nder, hardly needed
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[20:04:04] <archivist> screening them all to avoid radiating electrical noise makes sense
[20:04:51] <alex4nder> I'm thinking more of the issue of radiated noise.
[20:06:01] <archivist> my vfd was a lot more of a problem than the steppers
[20:06:47] <alex4nder> yah, I could see that
[20:09:12] <andypugh> My VFD was an enormous problem.
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[20:09:39] <archivist> my vfd was annoying the steppers
[20:09:46] <andypugh> Taking the motor wires through a ferrite core (3 wraps) helped rather,
[20:10:33] <andypugh> I fitted an input filter too, and that blew the RCD, so I needed to also add a zero-crossing SSR.
[20:11:37] <archivist> I was testing a vfd in the garage the other day and it took the house rcd out
[20:12:04] <syyl> rcd and vdf in combination is always a bit tricky
[20:13:12] <andypugh> I was reading the 17th ed about RCDs t'other day. You don't need them on outlets > 20A, so I see a number of 32A sockets appearing in my garage, and a split-load CU.
[20:13:48] <archivist> hmm good idea
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[20:15:24] <andypugh> It's OK to not RCD-protect SWA, so that part is fine.
[20:15:25] <archivist> the original 50 year old rcd here is very sensitive
[20:15:43] <archivist> and its before the cu
[20:16:03] <andypugh> Does it rely on mercury vapour and thermionic emission?
[20:17:38] <archivist> house needs a rewire
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[20:46:23] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Are these PT100 too? http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/PT100_a.jpg
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[21:08:19] <pyrojon> hi can anyone tell me about backlash compensation in emc
[21:09:12] <Jymmm> pyrojon: It's not a replacement for mechanical backlash
[21:09:57] <pyrojon> I understand, at the moment I don't have any mechanical options and I am having trouble that i blieve is backlash related
[21:10:04] <pyrojon> would llike to test to verify
[21:11:07] <Jymmm> I'm sure someone here will be able to tell you more about it than me. Give them a while (being a holiday here) to respond.
[21:11:25] <pyrojon> ok thanks
[21:11:31] <andypugh> You have two options, you can choose a single value, and when an axis reverses direction it will run as fast as possible BACKLASH distance, then carry on moving normally. Or you can define a file which maps the backlash value to axis position
[21:11:54] <pyrojon> i seem to recall that there was an .ini setting but te one I am using is not working at all so I must be doing it wrong
[21:12:19] <andypugh> Note that it can only compensate for axis motion direction changes, not for cutting-force direction changes
[21:13:00] <pyrojon> understood I am cutting into foam at the moment so i don't think my problem i with cuting resistance
[21:13:03] <andypugh> pyrojon: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BAXIS%5D-section
[21:14:36] <pyrojon> thanks a ton, I have been searching for that for hours, seaching the doc files for backlash returns nothing usefull
[21:15:24] <andypugh> Which manual? It's probably an "Integrator" setting
[21:15:26] <pyrojon> Hmm, I have a backlash=0.01 setting in my ini file but I still have the same backlash, I wonder if it's the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL setting
[21:15:49] <andypugh> What's the symptom, ans how is it measured?
[21:16:47] <pyrojon> I noticed that during jobs that involve ALOT of Z travel my cut seem to be getting deeper and deeper.
[21:17:04] <andypugh> More likely lost steps.
[21:17:25] <pyrojon> I tried to adjust the base period and such but nothing changes
[21:17:36] <archivist> listen to the sound, lost steps are audible
[21:17:43] <pyrojon> I measured backlash with a dial indicator and see 0.01 backlash
[21:18:14] <andypugh> Moving-head or moving-table?
[21:18:22] <pyrojon> I am not hearing anything out of the ordernary, the effect is cumulaive
[21:19:07] <pyrojon> both? the gantry is fixed, the table moves in the y axis, the cutter moves in the x and z
[21:19:17] <pyrojon> it's a small router machine
[21:19:43] <archivist> try slower z movements
[21:20:09] <pyrojon> i have, with no change
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[21:21:07] <Jymmm> make a 6" square?
[21:21:41] <pyrojon> the problem is with the z axis.
[21:22:10] <archivist> also check tightness of drive components
[21:22:17] <pyrojon> I have setup mydial indicator to run up and down +- 0.1" and can see the loss over time
[21:22:38] <archivist> slipping collars is a common problem
[21:25:07] <pyrojon> i cant believe I didn't notice this before, I just found that my collaar is missing a set screw
[21:25:21] <Jymmm> archivist++
[21:26:46] <Jymmm> pyrojon: set screw $0.20, diagnostic fee $300. archivist accepts credit cards, please insert here --> [ ]
[21:27:07] <archivist> I accept paypal !
[21:27:21] <Jymmm> oh, well there ya go!
[21:27:42] <pyrojon> sh i should have a bunch extra on hand
[21:27:49] <pyrojon> off to the hardware store
[21:27:53] <pyrojon> the check is in the mail
[21:27:59] <pyrojon> thanks guys
[21:28:02] <Jymmm> pyrojon: Oh, in that case, the diag fee is $500
[21:28:19] <archivist> I just have the voice of *cough* experience
[21:28:43] <Jymmm> lol, been there, done that.
[21:28:51] <pyrojon> still concerned about backlash but will rechck that when I get back from the hw store
[21:28:54] <pyrojon> thanks again
[21:30:21] <Jymmm> Does anyone know if a pelter (sp) cooler can be used as a thermal generator ?
[21:30:33] <andypugh> Yes.
[21:30:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: wikipedia says they are different (but sorta the same)
[21:31:21] <andypugh> You want to make electricity from a thermal gradient?
[21:31:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: yeah, I found one of those car 12v coolers I'd like to rip apart
[21:32:23] <andypugh> The plan is to use the birds to charge batteries on hot days?
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[21:33:22] <Jymmm> andypugh: LOL, well I could do that, but I was thinking of placing it in between the burner and exterior.
[21:33:45] <Jymmm> for the heat differencial
[21:33:58] <Spida> http://www.pelam.de/product_info.php?cPath=28_109&products_id=530
[21:34:12] <Spida> This lantern is equipped with an energie converter. This converter converts heat into energy. The converter is connected with a radio on the bottom.
[21:34:51] <archivist> Jymmm, they dont like getting too hot
[21:35:31] <andypugh> archivist: In my experience it's hard to stop them getting too hot.
[21:35:32] <Jymmm> archivist: I understand, I wasn't planning on putting it THAT close, just enough to have a significant differencial from ambient
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[21:36:03] <Jymmm> andypugh: even when mounted on a heat sink of some sort?
[21:36:20] <archivist> andypugh, been playing with a few recently
[21:36:23] <andypugh> I tried to make a fridge once. The Peltier did manage the quoted 20C differential, by making one side 50C and one side 70C
[21:37:01] <archivist> I have about 20 or 30 of the little fridges here
[21:37:15] <andypugh> Sometimes you scare me
[21:37:22] <archivist> and related wine coolers
[21:37:50] <archivist> been scrapping them for the metal :) and repair some to sell
[21:39:48] <andypugh> My dad used to buy old washing machines for the tin, and make them into car sills. This was back in the 70s when rust spots inside a year was considered normal.
[21:42:53] <Jymmm> andypugh: archivist scroll to the BRICK http://tegpower.com/products.html
[21:43:39] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsU3B0W3TMs&feature=player_embedded
[21:44:12] <andypugh> The Russians had stove-top TV's I believe.
[21:45:35] <andypugh> psha: Ever seen one?
[21:46:31] <archivist> I have enough devices to try it
[21:47:45] <andypugh> In a similar vein, I rather like: http://www.gyroscopes.co.uk/d.asp?product=VULCANSTOVEFAN
[21:47:49] <Jymmm> archivist: where are you scavaging them from?
[21:48:15] <archivist> small car/mains fridges
[21:48:26] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[21:48:39] <Jymmm> I thought there was somethign else that used them too.
[21:48:41] <psha> andypugh: hm, have not checked links
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[21:49:24] <Jymmm> Can this be right? 5A ?! http://www.amazon.com/TEC1-12705-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Cooler-40mm/dp/B002UQKEU8/ref=pd_sbs_misc_3
[21:50:18] <andypugh> Jymmm: About 1/4 the price I paid 10 years ago, seems reasonable
[21:50:50] <Jymmm> andypugh: Am I mis-reading that ad... is that is needs 5a or produces 5A ?
[21:51:07] <archivist> I got two from china the other week 7.62 free postage
[21:51:08] <psha> andypugh: @dev
[21:51:17] <andypugh> Jymmm: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/thermo-electric-modules-peltier-effect/4901525/
[21:51:31] <archivist> Jymmm, needs
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[21:51:44] <Jymmm> archivist: Ah
[21:52:19] <archivist> RS is greedy at those prices
[21:52:39] <andypugh> Errr, it's RS?
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[21:54:51] <andypugh> To be fair, RS's raison d'etre isn't "Cheap" it's "Tomorrow"
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[23:03:18] <Snowman_> I'm just starting to use emc2 just built a stepper setup for my wood lathe
[23:04:05] <Snowman_> I can't seem to get the lathe setup working in emc, any one want to help?
[23:04:16] <andypugh> What's the problem?
[23:04:43] <Snowman_> I edited the ini file and it still shows the third axis
[23:08:31] <Snowman_> when editing the ini file it says to add LATHE - 1
[23:08:40] <andypugh> Lathe = 1
[23:08:58] <andypugh> Coordinates = XZ
[23:09:24] <andypugh> (those might need to be all-caps)
[23:09:39] <Snowman_> is the sequence of the text important
[23:09:48] <Snowman_> they are
[23:09:59] <andypugh> Not inside a [SECTION] but they need to be in the right one.
[23:10:41] <Snowman_> it is in the display section
[23:10:52] <andypugh> [DISPLAY] LATHE == 1
[23:11:08] <andypugh> Sorry [DISPLAY] LATHE = 1
[23:11:35] <andypugh> And [TRAJ] COORDINATES = XZ
[23:11:56] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_ini_config.html#r2
[23:12:14] <Snowman_> I got it
[23:12:17] <Snowman_> thanks
[23:12:26] <andypugh> Working?
[23:12:27] <Snowman_> sometimes it is the stupidest things
[23:12:36] <Snowman_> had a -
[23:12:40] <Snowman_> needed a =
[23:13:02] <JT-Shop> Snowman_: what kind of stuff do you make?
[23:13:35] <andypugh> Aye, we have some guys making spectacular stuff with EMC2
[23:14:04] <Snowman_> wood working is a hoby for me, I have a 1940s wood lathe that I'm playing with
[23:14:17] <Snowman_> it is a run up to building a router
[23:14:43] <andypugh> http://www.deweygarrett.com/ has some lovely woodwork
[23:14:55] <Snowman_> I only have two steppers that were given to me to it makes it easy to do the lathe
[23:15:36] <JT-Shop> if your doing normal lathe ops take a look at ngcgui once your up and running... makes programming a snap
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[23:16:03] <Snowman_> now I just have to work out the cam software and we are good to go
[23:16:04] <Snowman_> ok
[23:16:30] <andypugh> And http://www.otinexperiences.co.uk/blog/
[23:17:00] <andypugh> A lot of us use gedit/notepad/textedut for CAM.
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[23:21:39] <snoman> sorry the wireless doesn't work well in the shop
[23:22:13] <andypugh> You don't miss anything
[23:22:24] <snoman> lol
[23:23:08] <snoman> ngcgui is just a different gui for emc?
[23:23:49] <JT-Shop> no it is an add on
[23:23:55] <JT-Shop> let me get you the link
[23:23:57] <snoman> I just started yesterday with usin emc.....so it is going to take a few days to work the bugs out for me
[23:24:06] <snoman> I see
[23:24:09] <JT-Shop> yea, get it up and going
[23:24:24] <snoman> I just bult the linear parts in the last two days
[23:24:55] <snoman> I'm still configuring and tunning it
[23:25:02] <JT-Shop> there is a demo by Dewey here http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,40/id,3408/lang,english/
[23:26:00] <JT-Shop> you set up tabs like OD, ID, Drill, Tap, Thread, etc and just fill in the blanks and concatenate them together to form a complete program in a couple of minutes
[23:35:04] <snoman> definatly going to have to check that one out
[23:35:37] <JT-Shop> I use it 95% of the time on my CHNC lathe
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