#emc | Logs for 2011-09-04

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[00:06:31] <andypugh> pcw_home: Have you had the chance to try the 5u25 patch yet?
[00:07:05] <pcw_home> No I will try it Monday
[00:07:25] <andypugh> Also, when my PSU shuts down it will discharge the caps through a resistor. Would the 8i20s prefer to see the resistor, or open circuit?
[00:08:59] <andypugh> Depending on how I arrange the relay, it can either change-over such that the outputs are disconnected before the discharge resistor is connected, or it can connect the discharge resistor across the outputs.
[00:09:32] <andypugh> I suspect that the latter is better, or the drives will over-volt on an e-stop?
[00:09:50] <pcw_home> The 8I20 _needs_ to be directly connected to the PS capacitors
[00:09:52] <pcw_home> The only limitation is that the load does not exceed the 8I20 max current (so around 12 Ohms minimum)
[00:10:27] <andypugh> Yes, it was one of those questions that I answered for myself while composing the question.
[00:10:42] <pcw_home> if you disconnect the 8I20 from the PS capacitors you will lose the 8I20 if there is appreciable motor current
[00:11:13] <andypugh> OK, so that idea moves to "Plan W"
[00:12:06] <pcw_home> The charge dump resistor will determine braking current if you stop while in motion
[00:12:23] <andypugh> its a 50R
[00:13:20] <pcw_home> Sounds about right so ~6A load
[00:13:59] <andypugh> Does it matter if that resistor is shared between 3 drives?
[00:14:15] <andypugh> I assume not, they share caps after all.
[00:14:24] <pcw_home> No thats fine
[00:14:38] <andypugh> (And they will each have their own braking resistor too)
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[00:20:04] <pcw_home> The IGBT bridge has 6 diodes reverse connected across each IGBT
[00:20:06] <pcw_home> so you basically have an alternator/3 phase rectifier if back EMF > bus voltage
[00:20:07] <pcw_home> thats why the charge dump resistor determines the fault/ powerfail decceleration
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[00:23:02] <andypugh> This is a machine begging for an EMC2 conversion, a Deckel NC (I think that means you can program in the feed and where it stops, for one move at a time). http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160646602397?
[00:33:57] <JT-Shop> 47 pounds?
[00:34:11] <syyl_> the deckel fpxnc machines are fullon cnc machines
[00:34:27] <syyl_> nice machines
[00:34:43] <syyl_> pretty rigid, linear glass scales in all three axis
[00:34:56] <JT-Shop> a little short on X travel
[00:35:07] <andypugh> I expect the bidding will go higher. But for £47 I would be prepared to build it a shed.
[00:35:10] <syyl_> all deckel machines are short on travel ;)
[00:35:18] <JT-Shop> ah
[00:35:32] <syyl_> this is mine at work
[00:35:33] <syyl_> http://gtwr.de/qtl2_4.jpg
[00:35:35] <JT-Shop> 100% positive feedback
[00:35:35] <syyl_> a fp2nc
[00:35:54] <andypugh> syyl_: I guess that they went for rigidity rather than travel.
[00:36:00] <syyl_> jep
[00:36:07] <JT-Shop> that is much too clean of a work area
[00:36:13] <syyl_> pulls a 30mm endmill 30mm deep trough steel..
[00:36:28] <syyl_> http://gtwr.de/bogner1.jpg
[00:36:30] <syyl_> better?
[00:36:46] <syyl_> there is a part under the chips ;)
[00:36:49] <andypugh> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/deckel-maho-aciera-abene-mills/fp3nc-rebuild-large-files-220534/ is a rebuild of one that fell off a tail-lift (ouch). It does look to be very nicely made.
[00:36:52] <JT-Shop> LOL
[00:36:57] <syyl_> http://gtwr.de/bogner2.jpg
[00:37:18] <syyl_> http://gtwr.de/bogner3.jpg
[00:38:06] <andypugh> syyl_: Ever heard of castings?
[00:38:16] <JT-Shop> round to square?
[00:38:54] <syyl_> no other stock was availible in our storage...
[00:39:19] <JT-Shop> lol, I'm doing the same thing in reverse atm for the same reason
[00:39:27] <syyl_> :D
[00:39:35] <JT-Shop> making a round part out of some square stock
[00:39:50] <syyl_> sometimes we do strange stuff ;)
[00:39:57] <JT-Shop> does that taper wiper really work?
[00:40:09] <syyl_> yeah
[00:40:18] <syyl_> pretty well
[00:40:22] <JT-Shop> what are the pads made of?
[00:40:32] <syyl_> leather
[00:40:48] <JT-Shop> ever find a chip in the pad?
[00:41:02] <syyl_> from time to time..
[00:41:14] <JT-Shop> crap, I need to get one then
[00:41:20] <syyl_> most time, when i happen to have no tool in the spindle, when i clean the machine..
[00:42:24] <JT-Shop> that makes sense... I run so many one off parts I'm constantly doing that
[00:43:12] <syyl_> same here, most time only 1-5 parts that are similar
[00:43:54] <RyanS> lol, I can imagine the people moving the mill "umm, we had a little accident, we dropped the milling machine" oops
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[00:44:21] <syyl_> anyway, if i had the space, i would get a deckel nc machine for hobby ;)
[00:45:02] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I found the "Site Session Lifetime" setting it is 1200 seconds
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[00:46:06] <andypugh> RyanS: I am wondering how much the guy bribed them to drop it...
[00:46:18] * JT-Shop listens to Amish Paradise by...
[00:46:41] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Something else is shorter, I think.
[00:47:03] <RyanS> lol, I woner what it cost him
[00:47:11] <JT-Shop> I'll keep looking
[00:47:24] <JT-Shop> any idea on what the time span is?
[00:47:36] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Talking of castings, did you see that one you CAM-ed for me assembled?
[00:47:54] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs?gsessionid=sVTniIRnloG0oQVnCJ16Dw#5648298987857956962
[00:47:57] <JT-Shop> I don't think I've seen it on the machine
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[00:48:24] <JT-Shop> nice!
[00:48:34] <hatch789> cncbasher: hey dude you there?
[00:48:35] <andypugh> Previous picture is the handle plugged in as manual over-ride. I am quite pleased with the 3-dog clutch.
[00:48:38] <JT-Shop> how is it working for you?
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[00:48:53] <JT-Shop> push in to use manual
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[00:49:05] <syyl_> and yes, andypugh, i know castings ;)
[00:49:06] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/CIMG0820.JPG
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[00:49:37] <andypugh> syyl_: Tailstock?
[00:49:47] <syyl_> yep, for my 4th axis
[00:49:49] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/P6111876.jpg
[00:50:06] <syyl_> had a little...sandbox session :D
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[00:50:39] <andypugh> Casting is fun. We had a foundry at a couple of places I worked in the past, it's a very nice facility to have access to.
[00:50:58] <syyl_> we can only cast aluminum, but its SO much fun :D
[00:51:41] <JT-Shop> andypugh: the Cache time is 900 seconds....
[00:52:02] <andypugh> Surely if you can cast aluminium you can cast iron, using a big pot of thermite. And that really adds to the fin.
[00:52:16] <andypugh> JT-Shop: That could be it
[00:52:31] <andypugh> Not sure what that does, though.
[00:52:47] <JT-Shop> me neither but it is the only setting that is 15 minutes
[00:52:48] <syyl_> thermite would be special ;)
[00:52:59] <syyl_> maybe take a step back...
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[01:02:44] <hatch789> andypugh: I think I was reading the web page about the boards you were developing for resolvers to encoders
[01:03:54] * Tom_itx wonders when JT-Shop will have a fully funcitonal new shop
[01:04:21] <andypugh> Aye, though there are probably better solutions.
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[01:09:09] <andypugh> hatch789: I wouldn't say I was "developing" them as such. More, I made a few because there was a minimum order of 10.
[01:10:15] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: all in due time I think
[01:10:46] <JT-Shop> one byte at a time and hopefully before I loose my mind
[01:12:10] <andypugh> Oh, and as for how the casting it working, no idea. I am resisting moving the PC out to the garage as it is fairly busy doing EMC2 development.
[01:12:57] <andypugh> Right, time to log off.
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[01:20:50] <JT-Shop> goodnight Andy
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[01:25:26] <RyanS> is the quill only lowered for drilling on a mini mill? for milling operations use the Z axis wheel?
[01:25:42] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, on the tut, are all the pics too much or should i just make a simple 1) 2) 3) ?
[01:26:43] <Tom_itx> mine doesn't have a quill and if it did i'd lock it in place i think
[01:28:20] <RyanS> So it's only there if you chose to use it as a drill press?
[01:28:39] <Tom_itx> i'd say so
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[01:38:06] <RyanS> hmm my father has one of those combined lathe/mills but we detached the mill and got a cheap compound table.. it was pretty much just an accessory to the lathe. It has a key/keyway to hold the spindle. The key falls out if you lower quill too much. but yeah I guess just lock quill in place and forget about it
[01:41:31] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: pictures are worth a 1000 words sometimes
[01:42:03] <JT-Shop> RyanS: I wish I knew what you asked... got a photo?
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[01:45:47] <RyanS> umm it's one of those awful things http://henrytian.en.made-in-china.com/product/loPEOmHyhMpg/China-Metal-Lathe-BV20C-.html
[01:46:26] <RyanS> the lathe is ok, the mill is pretty crappy
[01:46:44] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: http://imagebin.org/170929
[01:47:28] <RyanS> he's never actually used the mill.. hang on I did an illustration of what the problem is
[01:47:46] <JT-Shop> like a sherline but crappier?
[01:48:01] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/170932
[01:49:03] <JT-Shop> I thought I had a 60° dovetail cutter but only have 45° ones
[01:50:16] <RyanS> http://www.china-tyjc.com/en-ProductShow.asp?ID=138 it makes Sieg looks like Rolls-Royce
[01:51:04] <A2Sheds> cheap tools to make cheap parts
[01:52:51] <JT-Shop> actually cheap tools make crappy parts
[01:53:05] <JT-Shop> that are expensive by the time your done
[01:53:34] <JT-Shop> crap, typo made one of the pin holes off
[01:53:52] <RyanS> i mean the lathe is OK. but it's like the mill was just tacked on as an afterthought
[01:56:34] <JT-Shop> yea, looks like a Chinese attempt at sucking money from dumb Westerners
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[01:58:22] <A2Sheds> Harbor Freight for horrendously poor tools
[02:00:34] <RyanS> well some people arn't dumb enough to sink $30k on a CNC :) it's all relative to your budget or what you intend to do with it
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[02:01:53] <JT-Shop> well my full size CNC only cost a few k and yes the parts you make define the machine you need
[02:02:39] <JT-Shop> If I need a 50k machine to make my parts I'm smart enough to purchase it...
[02:04:21] <A2Sheds> most people don't understand quality today and most manufacturers don't want consumers to care about it either
[02:05:06] <A2Sheds> most products are designed to last as long as the warranty
[02:05:27] <JT-Shop> or be such a hassle to return it you don't bother
[02:06:05] <RyanS> planned obsolescence ... it was always intentional
[02:06:14] * JT-Shop wonders where Tom_itx went
[02:07:06] <RyanS> Industrial designers are pretty much educated on how to design things to break within a certain period
[02:08:05] <A2Sheds> my parents generation would consider this cheating and being dishonest
[02:09:11] <RyanS> They are probably right
[02:09:18] <A2Sheds> people just look at me funny if I bring this up for discussion, or point out to salespeople how poorly a product is made
[02:09:44] <A2Sheds> now everybody just accepts it
[02:10:49] <RyanS> There was a documentary on it I saw recently, there was a guy in the 50s he was a big proponent of planned obsolescence and thought that the economy would collapse if things were built to last , almost obsessed with the idea
[02:11:49] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[02:12:01] <A2Sheds> heh, still funny
[02:12:03] <RyanS> At the same time, the USSR and East Germany were building appliances like tanks
[02:13:21] <frysteev> i want a toaster that is made from 1/2" steel and can withstand an ied
[02:13:29] <RyanS> The idea was that people would lose their jobs and manufacturing will die if products were designed to last forever
[02:13:44] <A2Sheds> I wish we still had our Kaiser Frostinbiter fridge :)
[02:14:14] <RyanS> The Communist countries had planned economies so they were more concerned with not having to replace things
[02:14:31] <A2Sheds> when was the last time you saw a Fix it Shop?
[02:14:41] <A2Sheds> 1975?
[02:15:15] <RyanS> They interviewed a guy who had an East German fridge was built in like 1982 and still going strong
[02:15:45] <frysteev> east german toilet paper does not sound like fun
[02:16:45] <RyanS> They don't have those, electrical appliance fixing places anymore. I haven't really taken anything in for repair
[02:17:18] <RyanS> Stasi issued tissue
[02:18:28] <frysteev> well also those places closed down cuz it was cheaper to buy new onces,
[02:18:59] <frysteev> also its hard insurance wise, if your fixed appliance burns your house down, do you sue the rapir guy?
[02:19:12] <A2Sheds> yeah, the throw away society
[02:19:47] <frysteev> imagine if we all carried around east german smart phones?
[02:21:03] <RyanS> well smart phones would have been pretty cumbersome in 1989
[02:21:23] <RyanS> & not very smart
[02:21:36] <frysteev> tube preamps, lead chasis
[02:24:13] <A2Sheds> http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/dtmf/army-field-phone-1989.jpg
[02:24:25] <RyanS> With a nixie tube display
[02:25:45] <frysteev> ooo imagine a spark fun port-o-rotary, but in ell phone format, with a nixie tub display
[02:26:01] <frysteev> might have to hack it into an old military walkie tlakie
[02:26:06] <A2Sheds> http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/2/21409/1199386-15307_motimage_super.jpg
[02:26:14] <A2Sheds> I want to find some of these
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[02:31:38] <RyanS> why was the portable rotary phone infamous... http://www.sparkfun.com/products/287
[02:31:56] <RyanS> They probably thought it was a good idea at the time
[02:32:42] <frysteev> ya
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[07:16:37] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[07:25:31] <IG-garage> morning
[07:25:54] <IG-garage> Have been drilling again. They now pay me from what I have made.
[07:48:01] <IG-garage> hey, Loetmichel I don't know why, I like such vehicles: http://www.motocafe.ru/vintazh/4704-alp-sungurtekin-1952-triumph-thunderbird-650-kursed.html I probably need to have something on my mind while I'm working, so having something simpler a bit than painted toys is better
[07:57:41] <Loetmichel> IG-garage: sorry, dont speak russian
[07:57:56] <Loetmichel> but the picture is a triumph, isnt it?
[07:58:10] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: look at the photos. Besides, google chrome can translate the page
[07:58:39] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: I don't really know what motorcycle. But the simplicity of its view is somewhat sexy maybe.
[07:59:55] <Loetmichel> urgs... salt lake... or is that snow?
[08:00:05] <IG-garage> salt, not snow.
[08:00:25] <Loetmichel> NOT very kindt to the metal parts of the bike :-(
[08:00:28] <Loetmichel> kind
[08:00:58] <IG-garage> my motorcycle i had painted in winter (-26 celsius outside the garage) has some places with bad paint. I will re-edit it soon.
[08:02:00] <IG-garage> well, salt is less harmful than water maybe. But as an artificially-made non-alive thing, everything is to be and must be destroyed by mother nature, or we all will have died in trash.
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[10:31:00] <IG-garage> hah, wanted to travel about 30 miles to the north to get used tires for free, but their size was 15'' instead of needed to us 14'', so friend has said to his girlfriend (about me): "This geek is talking about these tires about half an year and he hasn't even checked its size!" So we haven't driven anywhere but I have got some inspiration to what I do and I am planning to do.
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[14:12:02] * JT-Shop listens to House of Fun
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[14:43:04] <SWPadnos> A2Sheds, it wasn't an atom board, i t was a core 2 duo (the MB had a socket). It was from Acrosser, the full PC is the AR-ES0892, the motherboard is the AR-B1892
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[14:56:48] <A2Sheds> thanks, I'm getting rusty
[14:57:59] <A2Sheds> at least I got the i945 right
[14:59:45] <JT-Shop> is rusty what we are calling it now?
[15:01:23] <danielfalck> JT-Shop: how did the ratchet turn out?
[15:01:38] * Tom_itx want's pics
[15:02:03] <JT-Shop> 4 more teeth to cut, I only had a 45° cutter so when the 60° gets here I'll run it again
[15:02:17] <JT-Shop> as soon as I take it out of the mill I will
[15:03:13] <danielfalck> JT-Shop: a friend of mine just got a Hardinge cnc lathe, just like yours. He is following your wiring diagrams to convert to emc
[15:03:20] <Tom_itx> working out ok?
[15:04:43] <danielfalck> he's just starting the project. I think he got the Mesa cards last week.
[15:04:51] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop that is..
[15:04:53] <Tom_itx> sry
[15:05:21] <danielfalck> np
[15:05:37] <Tom_itx> i'm always interested in conversions too though
[15:06:00] <JT-Shop> danielfalck: cool, is it working out for him?
[15:06:14] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/170994
[15:06:29] <danielfalck> it should work out fine- you have given him a lot of help already with the diagrams
[15:07:36] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, kinda makes you appreciate an indexer or A axis huh?
[15:08:41] <JT-Shop> yea
[15:09:39] <JT-Shop> I need some way to cut in half the CHNC wiring diagram pdf's and rotate them http://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge.xhtml
[15:09:58] <danielfalck> JT-Shop: my friend is the one who posted on the forum about wanting to reload the tool table while emc is running
[15:10:11] <JT-Shop> danielfalck: does he have the same collet closer as mine?
[15:10:13] <JT-Shop> ah ok
[15:10:23] <JT-Shop> for wear offsets?
[15:10:25] <danielfalck> I've looked into it a little bit and will probably be able to work it out
[15:10:26] <danielfalck> yes
[15:10:54] <danielfalck> I think it's identical to yours- he can run 16C collets
[15:12:21] <JT-Shop> cool
[15:12:24] <JT-Shop> last tooth
[15:13:09] <JT-Shop> and this was a good edgeamacation on cutting tooths :)
[15:13:19] <Tom_itx> I bet
[15:13:26] <Tom_itx> they look uniform
[15:14:38] <Tom_itx> where did you set your x y zero?
[15:14:43] <Tom_itx> and z for that matter
[15:17:11] <Loetmichel> hmmm....
[15:17:54] <Loetmichel> anyone enountered Problems with a W700V telekom-router (germany) and the actual ubuntu CD?
[15:18:27] <Loetmichel> just installed it (the EMC2) and have about 5-10s delay when opening e new URL
[15:18:35] <Loetmichel> looks like a DNS timeout
[15:19:11] <Loetmichel> the win-machines at the same router running timeout-less
[15:20:13] <JT-Shop> Z 0 is the top of the flat part of the fixture
[15:20:53] <Tom_itx> the far right corner is what i'm guessing on
[15:23:01] <Tom_itx> since it's flat against the vise
[15:27:29] <JT-Shop> I use a dowel in a tool holder and just put the fixture in the center of the vise which is X4.5... X0 is in the middle of the two vises
[15:28:13] <JT-Shop> Y0 is the front of the fixed jaw
[15:28:32] <JT-Shop> I really should crop these first http://imagebin.org/170996
[15:29:09] <JT-Shop> the teeth will look more ratchetty with the 60° cutter
[15:29:25] <Loetmichel> btw: max jitter 7905 and 9225 is OK?
[15:30:11] <JT-Shop> good for me
[15:33:15] <danielfalck> JT-Shop: looking good
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[15:36:58] <JT-Shop> thanks Dan
[15:44:01] <danielfalck> JT-Shop: by the way, I'm still using Heekscad. I did some waterline machining with it last weekend:
[15:44:02] <danielfalck> http://opensourcedesigntools.blogspot.com/
[15:50:05] <JT-Shop> what does waterline machining mean?
[15:50:46] <awallin> the cutter is held at a constant z-coordinate (height)
[15:50:52] <danielfalck> you approach a part at a constant Z level and run around it in a path in X and Y, then move down and do it again
[15:50:59] <awallin> and moves in x/y around the part, keeping in contact with the part
[15:51:44] <JT-Shop> ok, that makes sense
[15:52:08] <JT-Shop> danielfalck: what are you running heekscad on?
[15:52:38] <danielfalck> linux box- amd64 bit with ubuntu 10.04
[15:52:56] <danielfalck> and an Intel 32 bit box with ubuntu 10.04 in the garage
[15:53:46] <JT-Shop> I failed to get it to install on 10.04 a while back
[15:54:14] <JT-Shop> does it generate a profile cut quick?
[15:54:20] <danielfalck> yes
[15:54:35] <JT-Shop> what kind of file does it need to start with?
[15:54:42] <danielfalck> I use it for profiling, pocketing, and drilling mostly
[15:54:53] <danielfalck> DXF, step , or stl
[15:55:10] <danielfalck> I use Draftsight for drawing most of the time
[15:55:53] <JT-Shop> I can save as from SW to any of the above and a bunch more
[15:58:13] <JT-Shop> more ballista parts to make brb
[15:58:35] <danielfalck> later- going to machine some parts myself
[16:18:39] <Tom_itx> part loos good JT-Shop
[16:18:43] <Tom_itx> looks*
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[16:19:18] <Tom_itx> run it thru the rock tumber a bit
[16:21:07] <Tom_itx> it's a smaller part than i had pictured
[16:22:40] <Connor> anyone have a program that can convert a black/white jpg to g-code?
[16:22:53] <Connor> not 3D, just need the outline of it.
[16:23:06] <Tom_itx> iirc someone here does
[16:27:01] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: yea, it is just 1.5000000" in diameter
[16:27:31] <Tom_itx> looks like it turned out good
[16:27:41] <Tom_itx> other than the next cut
[16:28:05] <Tom_itx> i wanna find a cutter for the dovetail on a last word indicator
[16:28:24] <Tom_itx> ~1/4" or smaller and not sure of the angle yet
[16:29:37] <Tom_itx> probably 60 deg
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[16:33:15] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx other than the next cut ??
[16:33:27] <Tom_itx> your 60deg cutter you mentioned
[16:33:37] <JT-Shop> yes
[16:42:18] <JT-Shop> "Now, when I know, that EMC does not support calipers in base my question is: How to develop custom motion controller? I've read Developer Manual, but I still don't have image how everything fits together or even if the motion controller is the part of EMC that I need to modify for using caliper. Is there better documentation than Developer Manual? "
[16:42:22] <JT-Shop> from the forum
[16:42:57] <JT-Shop> I'm staying out of that one :)
[16:45:17] <danielfalck1> would that be dial caliper or verneer :)
[16:45:57] <JT-Shop> I don't think he knows
[16:46:38] <JT-Shop> danielfalck1: is there an install script or something for heekscad?
[16:47:20] <danielfalck1> there used to be. let me look around for it- I think it's in the wiki
[16:47:35] <danielfalck1> we've been using git lately, so a lot has changed in the last month
[16:48:03] <JT-Shop> do you just download from git and run?
[16:48:27] <danielfalck1> it needs opencascade or OCE as one of the dependencies
[16:48:35] <danielfalck1> check this out and see if it helps:
[16:48:36] <danielfalck1> http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/wiki/BuildWithCmakeOnUbuntu
[16:48:54] <danielfalck1> someone on irc was working on that about two weeks ago. maybe it's not so stale
[16:49:03] <JT-Shop> ok, thanks
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[17:05:22] <Tom_itx> sounds like the guy in the forum want's 'cmm' type input
[17:05:53] <Tom_itx> i doubt he get's it with a pair of calipers
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[17:25:05] <Spida> anybody here from somewhere near cologne (germany)?
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[17:49:45] <syyl> is 500km close? :D
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[18:27:12] <Jymmm> Connor: http://timeguy.com/cradek/image-to-gcode OR Trace using inkscape, export/save as DXF, then use a DXF-TO
[18:27:22] <Jymmm> GCODE
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[18:47:53] <cncbasher> JT-SHOP: i see PCW has picked up the gauntlet from me on the caliper !
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[18:51:28] <syyl> finally done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83iqKHtvpg4
[18:51:32] <syyl> first real cut
[18:51:42] <syyl> with a dull endmill ;)
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[19:12:22] <Jymmm> is that ABS?
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[19:14:35] <Jymmm> That is a hell of a lot of 80/20!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=6Gd04N_t3yA
[19:14:36] <syyl> acetal
[19:14:40] <Jymmm> ah
[19:14:53] <syyl> bit slow on feed
[19:15:23] <skunkworks_> logger[psha]:
[19:15:35] <syyl> in combination with the dull endmill i get a lot of burr
[19:17:06] <Jymmm> Even with a sharp one, you'll still get that.
[19:17:44] <syyl> normal, high feed, low spindlespeed reduces burr dramaticaly
[19:18:38] <TekniQue> Jymmm: wow, what is the torque capability of the steppers that turn the milling head?
[19:18:51] <TekniQue> is that machine only used for machining foam?
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[19:30:07] <A2Sheds> syyl: what is powering your chuck?
[19:30:32] <syyl> 3Nm stepper and a 50:1 harmonic drive :)
[19:31:53] <A2Sheds> syyl: who makes the gearbox?
[19:31:56] <Tom_itx> syyl, that turned out nice
[19:32:12] <syyl> uhm, dont know who built the drive
[19:32:18] <syyl> but all the surrounding is made by me
[19:32:28] <syyl> for pictures: http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=5870.0
[19:35:28] <TekniQue> syyl: nice
[19:35:34] <A2Sheds> it looks like it will handle more than enough torque than you'll throw at it
[19:35:48] <syyl> i hope so :)
[19:36:04] <syyl> now I can return to another project, still to be finished...
[19:37:21] <A2Sheds> "found it on ebay Thailand...took a few days of shiping to germany.." :)
[19:37:37] <skunkworks_> syyl: nice job!
[19:38:01] <A2Sheds> syyl: do you recall the price?
[19:38:10] <syyl> of the harmonic drive?
[19:38:14] <A2Sheds> yeah
[19:38:15] <syyl> about 80$ iirc
[19:38:20] <A2Sheds> not bad!
[19:39:48] <A2Sheds> sand casting as well
[19:46:03] <JT-Shop> cncbasher: Peter can have that one :)
[19:46:56] <Jymmm> TekniQue: no idea, not my machine
[19:47:43] <cncbasher> yea i agree
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[20:11:07] <Tom_itx> what's the purpose of a harmonic drive?
[20:11:25] <Tom_itx> can't say i've had experience with one
[20:11:59] <andypugh> They give a very high reduction ratio and zero backlash
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[20:12:08] <Tom_itx> ok
[20:12:18] <Tom_itx> is it like a planetary gear inside?
[20:12:24] <andypugh> Very high torque capacity too.
[20:12:34] <andypugh> No, almost entirely different :-)
[20:12:47] <Tom_itx> hmm
[20:12:52] <Tom_itx> i should do some searching
[20:12:55] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_drive
[20:12:55] <andypugh> ]
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[20:14:50] <Tom_itx> is the inner ring like a cog belt?
[20:15:19] <andypugh> No, it is a steel cup
[20:15:26] <syyl> its a thin walled cup with theeth
[20:16:28] <andypugh> There is a picture of real-workd parts here: http://www.hds.co.jp/HDS_hp_english/english/principle/index.html
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[20:21:37] <Tom_itx> sort of on the principle of the wankel engine?
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[20:24:36] <andypugh> A bit. In the same way as the Wankel has a three-lobed shape inside a 2-lobed shape.
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[20:34:32] <Tom_itx> syyl, what ratio is your drive?
[20:34:41] <syyl> 1:50
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[20:35:25] <atom1> similar to this http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Harmonic-Drive-HDUC-11-1U-CC-SP-/190570906617?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5ee943f9
[20:35:56] <syyl> jep
[20:36:02] <syyl> and it even has a casing ;D
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[20:36:16] <Tom_itx> yours didn't?
[20:37:54] <syyl> no, i only got the driving parts
[20:37:55] <syyl> http://www.gtwr.de/harmonic_1.jpg
[20:38:26] <syyl> there exist instructions how they have to be mounted
[20:38:40] <Tom_itx> hmm
[20:39:09] <Tom_itx> input on one end and out the other?
[20:39:18] <Tom_itx> what diameter are your in and out?
[20:39:29] <syyl> in is 8mm
[20:39:34] <Tom_itx> k
[20:39:45] <syyl> the output is the large diameter of the "cup"
[20:39:48] <syyl> about 30mm
[20:44:22] <atom1> would that be the same as a 'phase adjuster'?
[20:44:24] <atom1> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harmonic-Drive-Technologies-HDI-10-625-Phase-Adjuster-/370350385061?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563a9a67a5
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[20:45:18] <syyl> uhm dont think so
[20:45:21] <syyl> http://www.harmonicdrive.net/products/gearheads/hdi/
[20:45:32] <Tom_itx> what the heck is a phase adjuster for?
[20:45:36] <syyl> seems like a adjustable shaft coupler
[20:46:07] <syyl> never heard of that thing :D
[20:46:13] <Tom_itx> me either
[20:46:28] <Tom_itx> but i don't know much about harmonic drive either :D
[20:46:50] <syyl> :D
[20:46:53] <syyl> mh
[20:46:58] <syyl> time to go to bed..
[20:47:04] <Tom_itx> later...
[20:47:05] <syyl> godnight
[20:47:09] <syyl> *good
[20:47:21] <JT-Shop> someone read the user concepts and now understands his problem with path following YEA!!!!!
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[20:53:57] <JT-Shop> as soon as I stop bleeding I think I'll start drinking :/
[20:54:35] <andypugh> JT-Shop: You can't start the fluid replacement too early.
[20:55:28] <JT-Shop> wait till I'm feeling weak?
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[21:00:41] <andypugh> No, I mean that there is absolutely no point delaying, and you should start immediately.
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[21:01:35] <andypugh> (Though, actually, as alcohol is supposedly vasodilatory, it might make you bleed faster if you have severed an artery.)
[21:03:06] <andypugh> A friend of mine used to carry a hip-flask on the basis that most snake venom is vaso-constrictory, so you should always carry something strong. He would regularly take a swig, just in case. After all, you can never be too careful, even if the UK doesn't have any dangerous snakes. :-)
[21:03:45] <JT-Shop> it's always good to be prepared
[21:05:11] <frysteev> or just have a high blood-alcohol level
[21:05:59] <TekniQue> my colleague was taken to hospital a few years ago, he was drinking and he fell, the bottle in his hand hit the ground and broke, cutting an artery in his hand
[21:06:12] <TekniQue> there was a lot of blood
[21:06:23] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/171033
[21:06:30] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/171034
[21:06:47] <JT-Shop> taking shape
[21:06:50] <TekniQue> holy crossbow batman
[21:06:57] <JT-Shop> Ballista
[21:06:59] <JT-Shop> kinda
[21:07:22] <JT-Shop> just swapped rope for truck springs
[21:07:26] <A2Sheds> if you fall on a snake while you are drinking does it cancel out?
[21:07:36] <andypugh> That's not a toy!
[21:07:37] <JT-Shop> only in UK
[21:07:56] <JT-Shop> no it is a serious launching device
[21:08:14] <andypugh> You probably want a shock absorber to catch the bolt.
[21:08:42] <JT-Shop> I'm not sure I understand what you mean... the bolt goes out the front
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[21:08:52] <JT-Shop> very fast
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[21:09:38] <A2Sheds> a use for old leaf springs!
[21:09:49] <JT-Shop> better than shipping them to China
[21:09:53] <frysteev> anyone have a cnc with a breathalizer interlock?
[21:10:07] <JT-Shop> mine has a beer holder
[21:10:45] <JT-Shop> andypugh: the trigger assb slides on the main tube for cocking only, it is stationary when shooting
[21:11:07] <JT-Shop> be back later
[21:11:33] <skunkworks_> No f-errors on canned cycles - yay!
[21:14:03] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Aye, I got my terminology mixed up.
[21:14:27] <andypugh> What stops the cable when the bolt has departed stage-right?
[21:16:54] <TekniQue> JT-Shop: the beer holder makes sense
[21:17:09] <TekniQue> it probably makes the wait easier
[21:17:21] <TekniQue> when waiting for the machine job to finish
[21:19:03] <andypugh> Incidentally, there might actually be an advantage to the twisted-rope arrangement. I considered a torsion-bar and lightweight arm arrangement for a fast actuator I was designing once. There is actually a limit to how fast a coil spring or leaf spring can extend, governed by the specific stiffness of the material. (ie, the mass of the spring itself gets in the way of the spring extending).
[21:19:45] <andypugh> Carbon fibre arms might be your next iteration.
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[21:24:45] <skunkworks_> when I made a few cross bows - I used multible wraps of a flax thread
[21:25:08] <skunkworks_> both of mine used spring steel bows
[21:25:25] <skunkworks_> (one was from a truck - one was from a snowmobile)
[21:26:19] <skunkworks_> the bow string ended up .25" diameter
[21:26:31] <skunkworks_> or so
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[21:48:38] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, are you gonna use that to hunt from your porch?
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[22:15:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Don't ya think a "No Trespassing" sing might be easier?
[22:15:13] <Jymmm> sign
[22:15:44] <frysteev> i think a no trespassing song would be more interesting
[22:16:27] <Jymmm> frysteev: What, you've never heard the "No Trespassing Song" before?
[22:16:56] <frysteev> no, please link to the youtube video
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[22:18:10] <Jymmm> frysteev: http://www.sounddogs.com/sound-effects/2224/mp3/439572_SOUNDDOGS__sh.mp3
[22:19:36] <Jymmm> there are two VERY distinct sounds that nobody confuses what they are... one is a zippo lighter, the other is a shotgun pump =)
[22:20:14] <Jymmm> aka the "No __________ Song" =)
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[22:41:51] <Tom_itx> are most limit switches active high or active GND?
[22:42:56] <Jymmm> Active LOW, that way if a wire breaks, it'll stop the machine immediately
[22:43:57] <skunkworks_> yay - peck tapping works
[22:44:00] <Jymmm> and you can investigate as to why.
[22:44:06] <Tom_itx> peck tapping?
[22:44:12] <Jymmm> skunkworks_: motherinlaw?
[22:44:23] <Jymmm> skunkworks_: wife?
[22:44:23] <skunkworks_> g0X-3.2258 Y3.2258
[22:44:24] <skunkworks_> G33.1Z-.25K.0625
[22:44:26] <skunkworks_> G33.1Z-.5K.0625
[22:44:27] <skunkworks_> G33.1Z-.75K.0625
[22:44:48] <Tom_itx> to clean out the tap
[22:45:10] <Jymmm> I dont know what G33 is.
[22:45:24] <Jymmm> or g33.1
[22:45:25] <Tom_itx> apparently a tapping routine
[22:45:56] <skunkworks_> cradek: I do see an issue that I don't know if it has been fixed. If you stop a program during the g33.1 cycle - the next time the g33.1 cycle runs - it stops the axis at the depth setting - even though the spindle is still running forward.
[22:46:35] <skunkworks_> I think I have trunk here from a few weeks ago. I will try that.
[22:46:47] <skunkworks_> yes - tapping routine.
[22:47:02] <skunkworks_> (didn't cause any issues because I noticed it running in air)
[22:47:30] <Tom_itx> good test material
[22:47:32] * Jymmm likes G6
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[22:49:56] <Jymmm> http://apartmentloungechicago.com/music/Like_A_G6.mp3
[22:56:08] <Jymmm> Hey, who had the Ikea LED light? that thing is pretty cool actually.
[22:57:14] <Jymmm> I want to get another one to mount to the drill press
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[22:59:52] <Jymmm> Valen: Aren't you fancy with your IPv6 and all =)
[23:00:17] <Jymmm> Valen: IRC'ing from you toaster yet?
[23:03:54] <Valen> be nice if i was
[23:10:56] <Tom_itx> you'd think harmonic drive would produce alot of heat from friction
[23:12:39] <Tom_itx> how do they determine the ratio?
[23:12:57] <Tom_itx> the number of fewer teeth between the rings?
[23:13:32] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Yes.
[23:15:26] <Tom_itx> so the higher the ratio, the more the flexspline has to flex
[23:21:27] <Connor> One thing with a harmonic, I don't think they can be back driven.
[23:22:00] <Tom_itx> makes sense due to the high reductions
[23:22:08] <Connor> They can also produce insane amounts of gear reduction in a much smaller package than a planetary gear system.
[23:22:15] <Tom_itx> between 1:30 and 1:320 per stage
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[23:23:02] <Connor> smaller package == less weight. They're used allot in high end robotic manipulators.
[23:24:18] <frysteev> so you are saying you have a small package, but you have a high end manipulator?
[23:24:49] <Connor> Ha. Funny.
[23:24:57] <frysteev> :P
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[23:44:25] <Connor> Any suggestions on ways to keep from tracking in aluminum chips into the house on the bottoms of my shoes (Crocks)
[23:44:43] <Tom_itx> take em off
[23:44:44] <Connor> Wife is getting a bit annoyed at me.
[23:44:48] <andypugh> Change shoes at the door is probably the only way
[23:44:50] <frysteev> change shoes at the door
[23:45:08] <Tom_itx> wear really hard soled shoes
[23:45:09] <Connor> That's a pain in the a$$ with dogs in the house..
[23:45:18] <frysteev> change feet?
[23:45:36] <Connor> So, I'm not the only one who has this issue.. :)
[23:45:44] <andypugh> Chips embed less in wood-soled shoes. Maybe buy some industrial clogs?
[23:45:47] <frysteev> i dont have a wife,
[23:45:49] <Tom_itx> move the shop inside then you won't need to track the chips in
[23:45:59] <frysteev> steel clogs
[23:46:04] <frysteev> unless your are an electrician
[23:47:24] <andypugh> Aye, a pair of these, with the option of irons rather than a rubber sole: http://www.clogs.co.uk/cat_safety_clog.htm
[23:48:02] <Connor> I don't have a coolant setup yet... I'm planning on building a much bigger chip tray out of plywood and painting it with Marine grade latex paint. and installing a plexiglass or show current setup around it.
[23:48:03] <andypugh> I track chips into the house. I don't consider it a problem.
[23:48:45] <Connor> I have to be careful of the shoes and socks I wear do to Diabetes.
[23:48:48] <Connor> :(
[23:49:06] <Tom_itx> keep a pair at the door then
[23:49:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: you must be single
[23:50:16] <andypugh> Jymmm: Is it that obvious?
[23:50:36] <Jymmm> andypugh: chips in house no problem.... was the give away
[23:51:04] <Tom_itx> that russian dude was washing his bike parts in the tub
[23:51:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Eh, that I can see if you're in an apartment, but razor sharp chips all over the house? no thanks.
[23:52:10] <Tom_itx> i had my sherline in the basement for a while
[23:52:24] <archivist> just wear boots indoors chips dont hurt then
[23:53:14] <Connor> For metal, I was thinking just some magnets in a door matte .. But, that won't work for aluminum. :)
[23:53:15] <Jymmm> and the stench of wearing boots 24/7
[23:53:35] <Tom_itx> magnets don't work on aluminum or brass
[23:53:38] <Jymmm> Connor: wouldn't work when chips get embedded in the soles
[23:53:38] <andypugh> I don't get the concept of taking your shoes off to protect the carpet. If you can't afford carpet, don't buy it :-)
[23:54:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: less wear == last longer
[23:54:09] <Tom_itx> chips tear up a nice wood floor just as quick
[23:54:26] <frysteev> hmm
[23:54:48] <Jymmm> Yeah, and they fall off right at 2am when you goto the bathroom barefoot.
[23:55:39] <Connor> Well, my shop door is 2 feet from the side door to the house. and, it's carpet as soon as I open the door. So, changing the shoes requires me to take them off outside.. possible getting chips in my socks.
[23:55:58] <andypugh> Jymmm: Aye, but the cost/benefit of longer carpet life v the hassle of de-shoeing lies firmly in the "replace the carpet every decade or so" region for me. It isn't like wearing shoes indoors wears the carpet out in a matter of weeks.
[23:56:01] <Connor> Maybe one of those rough floor mattes in front of the shop door...
[23:56:49] <andypugh> Connor: Sounds like an argment for a nice set of encaustic tiles in the vestibule.
[23:56:51] <Jymmm> andypugh: I know, it's primarily an asian custom.
[23:56:51] <frysteev> maybe get an intern
[23:57:36] <Tom_itx> isn't anybody working on a project?
[23:57:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: goto any doorstep with a pile of shoes outside == Asian inside.
[23:57:45] <Tom_itx> is the best thing we have to discuss is displaced chips?
[23:58:03] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, what's up with that custom?
[23:58:27] <Connor> I finished my Traiming aids and they're installed. all three of my stepper mounts are made.. I still have to 8 more standoffs to bore and tap.
[23:58:34] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yep, but trying to figure out how to defelct a poration of a 1" tall vent
[23:58:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: no idea, maybe back in the grass mat for a floor days?
[23:58:56] <andypugh> Connor: You could probably change shoes in the shop, less of a dog problem then. Unless the swarf builds up near the door too.
[23:59:19] <Connor> yea, shop is rather small.. it's only a 11'x'7' room.
[23:59:32] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, i still know ppl that make me take my shoes off when visiting
[23:59:36] <Tom_itx> i don't get it
[23:59:37] <Connor> I think my best bet is to avoid getting chips in the floor to begin with.
[23:59:45] <Tom_itx> kinda hesitant to ask