#emc | Logs for 2011-08-29

[00:00:10] <Tom_itx> cncbasher, the script you uploaded indicates a file 'settings32.sh' which i don't seem to have
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[02:29:36] <andypugh> Night all.
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[05:05:44] <theos> night andypugh
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[05:36:23] <Jymmm> What would make a lightweight easy to store/use heat shield for a propane heater?
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[05:37:59] <KimK> A piece of furnace duct tin?
[05:38:32] <Jymmm> I need to be able to place UNDEr the heater to protect the floor (It's a portable heater)
[05:39:39] <Jymmm> http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bbq/msg031613123088.html
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[05:49:44] <KimK> Interesting, thanks for that Blue Rhino article, I didn't know. How about a thin sheet of aluminum supported by three or four bricks, depending on the shape of the heater? Repeat aluminum and bricks if still too much heat getting to floor. Is there much foot traffic nearby, it might be a snag/trip hazard?
[05:50:57] <KimK> Is this a radiant (quiet) heater, or a torpedo (loud) heater?
[05:51:34] <KimK> What kind of indoors/floor is this?
[06:00:28] <Jymmm> hang on
[06:00:53] <Jymmm> KimK: http://www.amazon.com/Heater-MH18B-Portable-Big-Buddy/dp/B0002WRHE8/ref=pd_sim_hg_1
[06:01:07] <Jymmm> that's the BIG one, and there is a smaller one too
[06:01:41] <Jymmm> The heat shield is mostly to protect the flooring
[06:02:32] <Jymmm> something I could roll or fold would be good
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[06:03:58] <KimK> This is in a tent?
[06:04:10] <Jymmm> Nope, but could be =)
[06:04:19] <KimK> Yikes, I hope it's a big one.
[06:04:26] <Jymmm> why?
[06:04:46] <KimK> That looks like a big heater for a small tent.
[06:05:06] <Jymmm> 13 x 20 x 19 inches ; 18.5 pounds
[06:05:37] <KimK> OK.
[06:05:48] <KimK> Maybe the picture makes it look big.
[06:06:17] <Jymmm> maybe.
[06:06:31] <Jymmm> BTU/HR. .........................4,000 / 9,000 /18,000
[06:07:13] <Jymmm> This is the reason for the heat shield...
[06:07:18] <Jymmm> cautiOn: Some carpets or linoleum may discolor if
[06:07:18] <Jymmm> heater is placed directly on these floor coverings.
[06:08:56] <Jymmm> TOP .... 30”
[06:08:56] <Jymmm> FRONT ...24”
[06:08:57] <Jymmm> SIDES ...6”
[06:08:59] <Jymmm> REAR ....0”
[06:10:35] <Jymmm> KimK: It's been such a cool summer, so I suspect we're going to have a cold winter. While I have a generator, it can only power ONE lil ceramic electric heater, at least with this I can swap out propane tanks.
[06:10:51] <KimK> How about a piece of furnace tin on a piece of plywood? If you need to raise it up off the fabric, maybe use tin cans?
[06:10:57] <Jymmm> It can use one or two 1# tanks, or a 20# tank
[06:12:00] <Jymmm> That might work, I think I have some 1/4" ply around here, then staple aluminum sheet to it.
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[08:48:11] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, about 4 12" decorative ceramic tile would do the trick
[09:07:53] <cncbasher> Tom_itx> did you manage the settings ok for xilinx ?
[09:08:20] <cncbasher> change settings32.sh to settings.sh
[09:09:00] <Tom_itx> not yet
[09:09:04] <Tom_itx> i quit for the evening
[09:09:22] <Tom_itx> i found no settings32.sh in the install
[09:09:49] <cncbasher> which version of xilinx are you using ?
[09:09:55] <Tom_itx> 9.2
[09:10:08] <cncbasher> you should have settings.sh
[09:10:29] <Tom_itx> i didn't find any
[09:10:35] <Tom_itx> lemme check again
[09:10:38] <cncbasher> ok
[09:10:54] <cncbasher> it's in the ISE directory
[09:11:57] <Tom_itx> ise is in the /xilinx92i/bin/lin directory
[09:12:36] <cncbasher> have you installed xilinx
[09:12:45] <Tom_itx> i think so yes
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[09:12:49] <Tom_itx> i ran ise
[09:13:01] <Tom_itx> and it loaded
[09:13:39] <Tom_itx> no settings.sh related to this anywhere
[09:13:42] <cncbasher> is this on windows
[09:13:47] <Tom_itx> no
[09:13:49] <cncbasher> ok
[09:14:02] <Tom_itx> i have it on windows too though
[09:14:59] <Tom_itx> i had to install a couple things before it would install too though
[09:15:06] <Tom_itx> some libc thing
[09:15:37] <cncbasher> yes i have known that to happen
[09:15:44] <cncbasher> should be fine
[09:15:51] <Tom_itx> mine was a newer version or something
[09:16:01] <cncbasher> just change the path to suit
[09:16:12] <cncbasher> and it should be ok
[09:16:37] <cncbasher> i use 10.2 and above here
[09:16:43] <Tom_itx> libstdc++5_3.3.6-20~lucid1_i386.deb
[09:16:49] <Tom_itx> made it happy
[09:16:53] <cncbasher> yes thats the one
[09:18:35] <Tom_itx> i didn't install any programmer port stuff, would the settings file be for that?
[09:23:42] <cncbasher> no the programmer port stuff is not needed
[09:24:07] <cncbasher> the settings file is for setting the environment
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[10:56:28] <ratkymarcell> Hey guys. Is there a way to set the jog speed of two axis absolutely simultaneously? If I just set it like this: "set jog 0 10 ; set jog 1 20" there is a visible lag between the two axis. The two servos are gonna drive a robot, so a lag between the two wheels would really be inconvenient.
[10:57:43] <ratkymarcell> I've been thinking about a blocking command, which creates kind of a batched execution. Like "set jog of axis 0 and 1, but do not actually do this... than, after these are set, NOW do them, together"
[10:58:06] <ratkymarcell> *then
[11:02:46] <awallin_> you are not using G-code for the robot?
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[11:41:53] <ratkymarcell> awallin, no, because I didn't find a G-code that would just run the servo at constant speed, for an infinite time
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[11:43:48] <awallin_> hm yeah, infinite time/coordinates isn't typical for cnc
[11:44:15] <awallin_> but you could maybe use the output of the motion-controller as a speed-input of a PID-loop?
[11:44:36] <awallin_> so do you need both positioning, and constant-speed forever?
[11:46:29] <jthornton> you could set up something in hal to do that
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[11:47:08] <ratkymarcell> No, I don't need positioning. Only the constant speed forever. That is all. Everything else is up to the controlling software.
[11:47:57] <awallin_> so use the commanded x/y positions from emc2 and g-code as speed references/set-points ?
[11:48:02] <jthornton> that does rather sound like a spindle to me
[11:48:42] <ratkymarcell> jthornton, do you mean this one: spindle {forward|reverse|increase|decrease|constant|off}
[11:49:02] <jthornton> yes
[11:50:19] <jthornton> but in your case you have two identical spindles perhaps
[11:51:47] <ratkymarcell> jthornton, yes, but when the robot needs to turn, I have to configure different speeds for the 2 axis...
[11:52:34] <jthornton> so "only constant speed forever" is not correct
[11:52:54] <jthornton> this a battle bot?
[11:53:25] <ratkymarcell> jthornton, battle bot... well, it's gonna be an agv (automatically guided vehicle)
[11:54:11] <ratkymarcell> yes, constant speed forever is not really proper, but jog did seem to be a good choice, as I can change the jog speed at any time
[11:54:11] <jthornton> so joystick to control fwd/rev left/right?
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[11:55:05] <ratkymarcell> jthornton, and 45 if needed (but later it's gonna be controlled by fuzzy algorithm to drive the vehicle to a certain position)
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[12:03:33] <cncbasher> can i ger a dac output from a 7i43/7i42 combination ?
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[12:13:16] <ratkymarcell> jthornton, awallin can you suggest a solution in emc? I couldn't find anything that fits :-(
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[12:14:35] <psha[work]> ratkymarcell: jog looks like what you want however it have problems with coordinated commands
[12:14:58] <IG-garage> hey psha[work]
[12:15:10] <psha[work]> generally it's not possible to start jogging two joints exactly in same moment
[12:15:12] <psha[work]> IG-garage: hi
[12:15:49] <psha[work]> but you may write small rt component for such movements i guess
[12:15:57] <psha[work]> i mean coordinated ones
[12:16:14] <IG-garage> What do you think of the last comment at http://www.motocafe.ru/customs/3847-flat-tracker-triumph-bonneville.html
[12:17:09] <IG-garage> i am about to do the same, always thought it could be nice to make the asphalt slippery, and create small races cup with friends
[12:17:54] <psha[work]> IG-garage: no flash => no youtube :)
[12:18:06] <IG-garage> how so?
[12:18:12] <psha[work]> i've not installed flash :)
[12:18:31] <IG-garage> well, mine is working bad after upgrade of Linux Mint 11
[12:18:44] <ratkymarcell> psha[work], do you think stepgen would be a good choice?
[12:18:54] <IG-garage> psha[work]: quite interesting video, not a controversial one
[12:21:10] <psha[work]> ratkymarcell: good choice is not correct word - if you have steppers you _have_ to use stepgen :)
[12:21:24] <psha[work]> or write another stepgen like component which would be stepgen :)
[12:21:50] <psha[work]> if you really need coordinated moves you need to write small high-level control module
[12:22:03] <psha[work]> which would tell 'motion' to start coordinated movement
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[12:23:59] <ratkymarcell> psha[work], I wanted to avoid _directly_ using stepgen :-) It would have been easier to use emc's jog function as it is. But I have to accept, that I have no choice then... :)
[12:25:41] <psha[work]> then use jogs :)
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[12:26:01] <psha[work]> i bet it's possible to use them in coordinated fashion
[12:29:19] <automata> HI, I am trying to get one linear and one angular axis to work with EMC2.6.. But I am at a loss for the declerations in the INI file
[12:29:33] <automata> anyone has a working example or can point me to one?
[12:30:06] <ratkymarcell> psha[work], that is exactly what I cannot figure out: how to use jog to start running two axis in the same time
[12:30:49] <psha[work]> automata: http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/xzc.ini
[12:31:22] <psha[work]> automata: http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23emc-devel/2011-06-18.html#18:29:06
[12:32:33] <automata> Thanx psha
[12:34:17] <ratkymarcell> psha[work], My boss says he couldn't believe emc's jog function isn't capable of this :-)
[12:34:38] <psha[work]> ratkymarcell: give me some time to check
[12:34:52] <ratkymarcell> psha[work], thanks
[12:34:54] * IG-garage had been milling whole day with shell mill. A lot of steel were cut off...
[12:35:31] <automata> psha: why is the number of axes 6???
[12:35:42] <automata> but only 3 are defined!!
[12:35:56] <automata> I guess there is some hard coding with the letters...
[12:36:53] <psha[work]> automata: default trivkins kinematics module calculates speeds differently
[12:37:17] <psha[work]> so if you need some sort of coordinated moves you need to follow XYZABC... scheme
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[12:38:00] <psha[work]> but if you don't need complex speed calc you may just use any of axes with any types
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[12:40:54] <automata> Can you also send me the associated HAL file?
[12:41:45] <psha[work]> heh, that's dgarr's file :)
[12:42:42] <psha[work]> ratkymarcell: i've two news for you - bad and good :)
[12:42:56] <ratkymarcell> psha[work], hit me :-)
[12:43:00] <psha[work]> bad: motion module is not capable of coordinated jog commands
[12:43:49] <psha[work]> good: timeout between two commands issued from RT components probably will be inside servo-loop timeout :)
[12:44:17] <psha[work]> you need to double-check this however i guess it's ok for most cases
[12:45:06] <psha[work]> most cases == until your vechicle would drive subsonice speed on 10cm width log where even 1ms delay between left and right speed change will lead to crash :)
[12:46:07] <ratkymarcell> so you mean that the lag between two subsequent commands should be really low... but it's only true for that RT-type of commands? So, if I'm trying to do this from C++ via Telnet, I have no hope.
[12:47:22] <psha[work]> via telnet you may encounter network lag and get ~1 sec delay between left and right jog changes
[12:48:08] <psha[work]> if you need network control you have to add control module which will get 'jog left +100 right +100;' command and issue both of them at single batch
[12:48:25] <psha[work]> otherwise you'll get your vechicle screwed :(
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[12:50:01] <ratkymarcell> That means, if I restrain myself to local usage, lag should be minuscule, and everything should be ok.
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[12:51:35] <psha[work]> yes, but if you are paranoid you need RT comp that issue jog commands at once
[12:52:01] <ratkymarcell> I'm not :-) So, actually, I guess it's gonna be OK :-) Thanks for your help!
[12:52:31] <automata> psha: I added the Y axis as an angular axis...
[12:52:49] <automata> But Axis still shows its units as mm and not degree?
[12:54:11] <psha[work]> automata: you've changed units in .ini file? then i guess it treats Y as angular...
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[12:56:07] <automata> I did change the units in the INI file... But it still displays mm?? is that programmed behaviour?
[12:56:32] <automata> or is something wrong with my ini file?
[12:56:42] <psha[work]> probably it's hardcoded...
[12:57:09] <Valen> i have seen some hal files that dont get stuff from ini
[13:00:33] <Valen> hows stuff psha[work]
[13:00:49] <Valen> still need to finish tweaking the camera stuff ;->
[13:01:01] <Valen> to get it working well on our mill
[13:01:30] <Valen> it doesn't work so well on a 1024x768 screen lol, the options menu is bigger than the screen
[13:14:08] <psha[work]> :)
[13:14:36] <psha[work]> options menu in which app?
[13:14:46] <Valen> for the camera settings
[13:14:49] <Valen> focus zoom etc
[13:14:57] <Valen> microsoft lifecam so it has alot of options
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[13:40:16] <cncbasher> anyone running 2.5 or 2.6 ? getting addf fail on pid.s.do-pid-calcs servo-thread
[13:40:35] <psha[work]> Valen: which app?
[13:40:50] <Valen> your camera application within EMC
[13:41:16] <psha[work]> camview-emc?
[13:42:27] <Valen> yah
[13:44:17] <psha[work]> heh, what's problem with options? when folded they eat only one line :)
[13:59:55] <cradek> cncbasher: if you meant to type pid.s, that makes no sense and is your problem
[14:00:29] <cncbasher> no thats what came out of pncconf
[14:00:53] <cradek> what emc version?
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[14:01:11] <cncbasher> 2.6
[14:02:10] <cncbasher> just looking to rectify it
[14:03:43] <cncbasher> full hal file output here http://pastebin.com/8gU0rwvX
[14:04:21] <JT-Shop> ah it is named s
[14:04:25] <cradek> oh, it's trying to use pid with names=s
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[14:05:27] <JT-Shop> cncbasher: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/pid.9.html
[14:05:29] <cradek> 00006 0012fadc b779c0b8 YES 0 s.do-pid-calcs
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[14:05:44] <cradek> JT-Shop: it's a pncconf bug. someone changed it to use names= but then didn't bother to test it
[14:06:15] <JT-Shop> yep
[14:06:41] <cncbasher> arh , thought it looked a bit odd
[14:07:08] <cncbasher> is their a handy fix
[14:08:10] <cradek> I'm going to revert the names= change
[14:08:29] <JT-Shop> I emailed Chris
[14:09:01] <JT-Shop> cncbasher: you have to use num_chan as shown in the link
[14:09:49] <cradek> ok, I'll do nothing
[14:09:50] <cncbasher> thanks all
[14:09:59] <cncbasher> much appriciated
[14:11:33] <ratkymarcell> Do you know any program, similar to emcrsh, that is local and cli?
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[14:25:38] <JT-Shop> archivist: drilling 4 holes 105° apart on the blank and using a 6 sided collet holder with a mandrel with one pin will get me the 24 tooth ratchet I was trying to figure out yesteday
[14:26:18] <Tom_itx> you didn't get my memo?
[14:26:45] <JT-Shop> must have missed it
[14:26:46] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Are they all on the same radius?
[14:26:54] <JT-Shop> yea
[14:27:13] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i suggested holes 60deg apart on one half of the jig and 15 deg apart on the other for an indexer
[14:27:24] <Tom_itx> that would get you the 24 teeth
[14:27:31] <Tom_itx> 444534443334
[14:27:36] <Tom_itx> oops
[14:27:45] <Tom_itx> kbd stuck
[14:27:51] <JT-Shop> I have a 6 sided collet holder
[14:28:00] <Tom_itx> so do 15 deg separation
[14:28:03] <JT-Shop> and a square one
[14:28:04] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: Now all we need is your PIN ;)
[14:28:05] <Tom_itx> 6 times
[14:28:08] <Tom_itx> heh
[14:28:27] <Tom_itx> actually i was banging the kbd on the desk to remove some crap from it
[14:28:41] <JT-Shop> heh
[14:29:21] <Tom_itx> the 6 sided collet would do just fine for the first half
[14:29:25] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/170147
[14:29:28] <Tom_itx> if you can pin it at 15deg increments
[14:29:49] <JT-Shop> I pinned it at 105°
[14:29:55] <JT-Shop> or 7 steps
[14:30:33] <Tom_itx> such a waste of cad time :)
[14:30:44] <JT-Shop> only took 15 seconds
[14:30:57] <Tom_itx> damn, i should hire you
[14:31:29] <Tom_itx> i really wish i knew solidworks that good
[14:31:31] <JT-Shop> SW has a multi sided thingy and you can tell it how many sides so it is quick
[14:31:45] <Tom_itx> yeah
[14:32:01] <JT-Shop> my partner gets dizzy trying to watch me draw parts :)
[14:32:45] * FinboySlick is pretty good with it and must say it's quite handy.
[14:32:45] <Tom_itx> i knew a guy that used acad with nc polaris that could think in 3d as fast as i can talk
[14:32:50] <JT-Shop> so to fool the masses I'll drill fake holes opposite the real ones so it all looks symmetrical
[14:32:52] <FinboySlick> Pays well too.
[14:33:11] <JT-Shop> FinboySlick: did you see the part yesterday
[14:33:28] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Probably not...
[14:33:47] <JT-Shop> the finished part http://imagebin.org/170149
[14:34:09] <JT-Shop> a ratchet for the windlass on a ballista
[14:34:16] <Tom_itx> time to make a cheap indexer
[14:34:26] * FinboySlick notes that he's no Solidworks pro or certified or anything. Just helps when people need to get complicated things done in it.
[14:34:51] <JT-Shop> I had a cheap one once the kind with the pin and the crank
[14:35:12] <Tom_itx> are the flats on the teeth perp to the centerline?
[14:35:34] <JT-Shop> yes
[14:35:53] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: So your previous drawing was for tooth placement on that one?
[14:36:10] <Tom_itx> i had no drawing posted but suggested a solution
[14:36:18] <JT-Shop> yes a way to fixture the part at 15° increments
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[14:37:09] <JT-Shop> I had one of the $48 ones once but lost it http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=495&PARTPG=INLMK3&PMITEM=505-2280
[14:37:17] <Tom_itx> 2 plates drilled with a bolt thru them to hold the part for milling all held in a beautiful 6" kurt vise
[14:37:20] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: You run it in Wine or are you using it on a windows install?
[14:37:30] <JT-Shop> win7
[14:37:52] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: what video card are you using?
[14:38:07] <JT-Shop> I forget
[14:38:36] <FinboySlick> There's a registry hack to enable RealView on gamer cards apparently.
[14:39:16] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I can visualize the plates and the through bolt with the part in it...
[14:39:27] <FinboySlick> I hardmodded my 8800GT personally, but that's because I was lucky enough to have that specific model.
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[14:40:01] <Tom_itx> our state went to online filing last year and i swear to god i've had more problems with them since than in the past 18 years prior
[14:40:35] <JT-Shop> at my other shop I have one of those high priced video cards but don't notice much difference
[14:40:54] <FinboySlick> For me it's really just the visual quality.
[14:41:22] <Tom_itx> just had to mention that since i just got off the phone with em
[14:41:24] <FinboySlick> Which you only get on quadro and firegl models.
[14:42:02] <FinboySlick> It's supposed to be faster but I seldom do parts complex enough to tax a gamer card.
[14:42:10] <Tom_itx> went from a $450 penalty to a ... clicky clicky click oops we're sorry about that
[14:42:16] <JT-Shop> looks like an ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO here
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[14:42:39] <JT-Shop> yea, I have a quadro on my other computer
[14:42:53] <Tom_itx> ati drivers suck
[14:43:05] <Tom_itx> i've got older ati in mine
[14:43:45] <Tom_itx> tv card of some sort
[14:43:51] <skunkworks> I 'fooled' my laptop to think it was a firesomething card. It now does the nice shading and stuff in sw
[14:43:58] <A2Sheds> Tom_itx: Linux drivers?
[14:44:02] <Tom_itx> no
[14:44:05] <Tom_itx> winders
[14:44:59] <FinboySlick> skunkworks: That's probably the only reason I'd go ATI, they're easier to softmod. In nvidialand, you're pretty much stuck having to buy the real thing nowadays.
[14:46:44] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: Around here, the government just figured that a lot of people just pay up and don't call 'em on their mistakes ;)
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[14:48:24] <skunkworks> http://forum.notebookreview.com/dell-xps-studio-xps/514266-enable-realview-solidworks-your-radeon-4670-5730-system.html
[14:48:38] <skunkworks> Think I followed those directions.. (have a dell studio xps)
[14:50:03] <A2Sheds> I've been using Solidworks with a HD5830 for a few months without issues on parts about as complex as Solidworks can get
[14:51:22] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: RealView is mostly about eyecandy. The performance gain on pro cards is from the drivers not being intentionally crippled.
[14:53:03] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: yeah, we have a gamer that works on all the hacks, turn on extra cores, pipes, over clock etc
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[14:54:05] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I'd be pretty interested in that sort of stuff if he can quadrofy some of the latest nvidia models.
[14:55:12] <A2Sheds> we only use AMD/ATI since we get so much support from them for firmware (coreboot) and Linux drivers
[14:55:23] <FinboySlick> Though honestly, what I'd prever is a real open alternative to Solidworks and crippled drivers ;)
[14:56:01] <skunkworks> here here!
[14:56:23] <FinboySlick> Anybody up to spending 80 years cleaning up the OpenCASCADE code? ;)
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[14:58:34] <A2Sheds> open source mechanical and electronic CAD is just way behind the closed vendors
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[14:59:32] <A2Sheds> I really wish I didn't have to spend $10K's on Allegro and unigraphics
[15:00:06] <Tom_itx> they assume you will make a profit after that
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[15:00:31] <Tom_itx> but it's your gamble to make
[15:00:35] <A2Sheds> but there is no way to layout a multilayer PCB with design constraints with open source
[15:01:04] <A2Sheds> or design a complex part with Heeks in a reasonable time
[15:01:10] <DaViruz> i stumbled across 64 6800uF 400V capacitors, i think i need to build a crazyu powerful resistance welder
[15:01:13] <Tom_itx> eagle is somewhat workable
[15:01:38] <DaViruz> or heck, maybe a railgun
[15:02:05] <Tom_itx> put em behind a blast shield
[15:02:47] <DaViruz> yeah that thing can be seriously dangerous
[15:03:46] <DaViruz> i think they were used for reserve cooling power for some switchgear
[15:05:40] <DaViruz> i don't know which condition they are in though, i'll have to measure capacitance and esr
[15:06:11] <Tom_itx> how do you measure esr?
[15:08:42] <DaViruz> http://uk.farnell.com/peak/esr60/tester-capacitor-esr/dp/7830254
[15:08:45] <DaViruz> with one of those
[15:09:21] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I think there's a need for serious math-heads re-implementing the the functionality of OpenCASCADE for open source cad to get anywhere. It'd be cool if we cold clone the xiph guys ;)
[15:09:22] <DaViruz> or it's pretty easy to measure with a signal generator and a scope
[15:19:40] <A2Sheds> 22000UF 400V only $324.04 ea http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=LNX2G223MSEK-ND
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[15:21:42] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: it would be nice
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[15:22:54] <skunkworks> I made a small rail gun when I was a kid. It would shoot a BB though a few sheets of paper. (single stage) I always wanted to make a multi stage one. Show and tell was interesting at school. The teacher was having a fun time with it. (used a bridge rectifier off of the lines to charge the caps)
[15:23:25] <skunkworks> I used to scare my teachers...
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[15:24:00] <skunkworks> mainly wondering why I was still alive
[15:27:57] <A2Sheds> DaViruz: http://www.vishay.com/docs/93003/150ebu04.pdf here's your matching rectifier :) 400V 150A
[15:28:00] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2oaBtkpNpE
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[15:28:37] <DaViruz> i need a thyratron tube to switch the thing
[15:28:39] <DaViruz> :/
[15:29:05] <andypugh> The PSU was a double failure. After spending all day assembling it, I found I had the wrong gender of IEC lead.
[15:29:09] <DaViruz> something that can handle 10kA or so
[15:29:22] <DaViruz> they seem a bit pricey.
[15:29:44] <A2Sheds> I worked on some RF welders, wait till you see the price of tubes :)
[15:29:49] <andypugh> Then I cobbled it up, and the NTC surge-supressor blew up.
[15:30:26] <DaViruz> A2Sheds: i found some 400A ones on ebay for about $50
[15:30:35] <DaViruz> and some 2kA ones for about $2000
[15:30:44] <andypugh> I don't know what those surge suppressors are meant to achieve. They seem to be typically rated at 1R, as if the 32A supply is happy to provide 300A.
[15:30:45] <DaViruz> i can imagine what a 10kA costs
[15:30:59] <A2Sheds> old Russian surplus?
[15:31:07] <DaViruz> some american and british too
[15:31:13] <DaViruz> some new
[15:31:28] <DaViruz> but those were repetitive figures
[15:31:39] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I can't seem to visualize your simple 2 plates drilled with a bolt thru them to hold the part for milling all held in a beautiful 6" kurt vise
[15:31:58] <DaViruz> i can live with a busted tube after 10 switches
[15:31:58] <A2Sheds> I was working on a solid state RF welder for vinyl
[15:32:55] <DaViruz> a krytron tube would be ideal, but they seem to be export restricted becaused they are used to detonate nuclear weapons..
[15:34:08] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, the 6 hole one would have an extension to hold in the vise, the 4 hole would be more of a circle with 4 holes 15 deg apart with a drive square and bolt to match the ratchet
[15:34:13] <A2Sheds> maybe build your own
[15:34:49] <A2Sheds> the glass working equipment is probably getting harder to come by
[15:37:09] <A2Sheds> DaViruz: are you in the US, UK or another devolving into 2nd world nation?
[15:37:32] * Tom_itx gets out a visual for JT-Shop
[15:38:01] <JT-Shop> ok, I'm trying to draw up what you said if I understand it correctly
[15:38:11] <Tom_itx> so am i
[15:38:24] <Tom_itx> although not 3d
[15:38:26] <DaViruz> A2Sheds: sweden, i'd be inclined to say we are devolving too
[15:38:28] <JT-Shop> yours will no doubt be better
[15:39:22] <Tom_itx> it hasn't been proven
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[15:40:08] <A2Sheds> DaViruz: heh, I hope your project doesn't turn out like that nuclear reactor that guys way building :)
[15:40:20] <A2Sheds> guy was
[15:40:39] <DaViruz> heh yeah
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[15:40:55] <DaViruz> that guy had absolutely no idea what he was doing
[15:41:10] <DaViruz> boiling radium and beryllium in sulfuric acid on the stove
[15:41:12] <A2Sheds> http://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-nuclear-reactor-angelholm-2011-8 with pics
[15:41:26] <DaViruz> that's as stupid as you can get
[15:42:02] <DaViruz> to be honest i do have plans for a fission reactor ;)
[15:43:13] <DaViruz> but building it would be impossible, dangerous and stupid
[15:43:26] <A2Sheds> but he kept a bottle of juice handy in case there was a meltdown
[15:43:57] <DaViruz> maybe he should have taken the medication on the picture
[15:43:58] <A2Sheds> I like the ashtray jammed with butts as well
[15:44:03] <skunkworks> that is where a little knowledge is a dangerous thing
[15:44:09] <DaViruz> and averted the whole thing :)
[15:44:36] <DaViruz> my reactor would be thorium fueled
[15:45:04] * syyl takes a step back...just for safety...
[15:45:06] <DaViruz> and as thorium can't sustain fission on its oen it would be neutron bombarded by a fusor fusion reactor
[15:45:22] <DaViruz> which also can't sustain itself
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[15:46:08] <DaViruz> the thorium would produce short term byproducts that would chain react, but it would cool down in a matter of minutes
[15:46:33] <syyl> like the thorium high temperature reactors with the graphit balls?
[15:46:37] <Tom_L> JT-Shop, http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/fixture.jpg
[15:46:40] <A2Sheds> I'm waiting to buy one off alibaba.com or ec21 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8393984/Safe-nuclear-does-exist-and-China-is-leading-the-way-with-thorium.html
[15:46:55] <Tom_L> held in the kurt
[15:47:07] <Tom_L> the diameters obviously are smaller than the gear
[15:47:14] <DaViruz> syyl: dunno
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[15:47:28] <JT-Shop> Tom_L: ok thanks I understand now
[15:47:32] <Tom_L> use the square peg to drive the gear material
[15:47:32] <DaViruz> you'd need some other fuel too to get enough free neutrons
[15:47:49] <syyl> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_bed_reactor
[15:47:52] <JT-Shop> I might have to space the 4 holes in different quadrants due to size (small)
[15:48:00] <Tom_L> could be
[15:48:06] <Tom_L> same idea applies
[15:48:54] <Tom_L> and you could use the vise also to clamp it all for extra rigidity but you'd need a way to fix it to the vise
[15:48:56] <Tom_L> aka soft jaws
[15:49:09] <Tom_L> threaded to hold it in place
[15:49:12] <A2Sheds> I don't think they will be available anytime soon in the west. There's too much control from the oil co's in government
[15:49:19] <FinboySlick> Guys, stop talking about building reactors, I'm already on enough no-fly lists as it is ;)
[15:49:29] <syyl> hrhr
[15:50:00] <syyl> the channel will be empty in a few minutes, if we continue that topic ;)
[15:50:20] <syyl> "uh, guys with black sunglasses at my door"
[15:50:44] <DaViruz> gas cooled, that worries me
[15:50:51] <A2Sheds> Jehovahs Witnesses?
[15:51:13] <syyl> maybe "flowers by irene" ;)
[15:51:26] <Tom_L> CIA
[15:51:51] <Tom_L> are they driving black SUV's?
[15:52:01] <syyl> i hope
[15:52:12] <DaViruz> echelon is working overtime now
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[15:52:51] <DaViruz> wait till i say Uranium-235 which would be the primary byproduct of a thorium reactor..
[15:52:58] <FinboySlick> CIA you wouldn't see. They'd have someone kill you in an alley and make it look like a mugging. Or the classic 3 bullet to the head suicide.
[15:52:58] <A2Sheds> we can't even get decent solar panels
[15:53:04] <FinboySlick> FBI on the other hand...
[15:53:09] <Tom_L> naw that's the mofia
[15:53:16] <syyl> 25 bullets in the back?
[15:53:22] <syyl> "looks like a suicide"
[15:53:26] <FinboySlick> They'd send someone to help you build it, turn it into a dirty bomb, let you blow it up and then bust you ;)
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[15:54:18] <FinboySlick> Actually, I got that wrong.
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[15:54:30] <DaViruz> but i don't need to worry, the swedish state security police is entirely incompetent
[15:55:01] <A2Sheds> it will never happen, that is why they have the body scanners at all the airports :)
[15:55:23] <DaViruz> that reactor guy got busted because he actually emailed the swedish radiaction protection agency and asked if it was ok to build a nuclear reactor in his apartment
[15:55:33] <TekniQue> haha
[15:56:09] <DaViruz> i wonder what kind of reply he expected, "sure, go right ahead, we trust you!"
[15:58:38] <A2Sheds> the news puts so much spin on stories, I bet the facts are different
[15:59:01] <DaViruz> he actually wrote it in his own blog
[15:59:58] <A2Sheds> is he autistic, did he attend public school in the US, who knows what?
[16:00:45] <DaViruz> he was from sweden to begin with, so i doubt he attended school in the us
[16:00:47] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: this what you had in mind? http://imagebin.org/170158
[16:01:18] <Tom_itx> with a matching plate on the front side to hold it
[16:01:21] <Tom_itx> but only if it works
[16:01:31] <Tom_itx> if it doesn't, that's not at all what i meant :)
[16:01:38] <JT-Shop> I was going to use a bolt to hold it in
[16:01:43] <A2Sheds> DaViruz: I was just trying to explain his poor judgment
[16:02:02] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i was gonna suggest a tight fit on the bolt for better accuracy, maybe a bushing
[16:02:04] <JT-Shop> yes it does divide out to 15°
[16:02:06] <Tom_itx> just on the round parts
[16:02:16] <andypugh> Thorium fusion certainly seems like the way to go. There is enough thorium for 10,000 years of US-level per-capita power usage. There is enough Uranium for 20 years..
[16:02:42] <DaViruz> but you do mean fission?
[16:02:46] <FinboySlick> andypugh: No military application, no research.
[16:02:49] <andypugh> I do mean fission
[16:03:00] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I guess you missed the lightweight part =)
[16:03:08] <Tom_itx> huh?
[16:03:17] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: re: tile
[16:03:26] <DaViruz> FinboySlick: sure there is, the primary by product of thorium fission is weapon grade u-235
[16:03:26] <andypugh> Though if you could do thorium fusion, hydrogen would be a breeze.
[16:03:31] <Tom_itx> whimp
[16:03:42] <DaViruz> but nuclear weapons aren't as popular these days
[16:04:30] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, you could thread the plate but i'm not sure about the centering accuracy if you do
[16:04:31] <DaViruz> i haven't given up on fusion yet, but i think there is hope for some kind of actively maintained fission
[16:04:56] <Tom_itx> maybe a step in it to hold the bushing
[16:04:59] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: It's a PORTABLE heater, and have you ever stubbed your toe on ceramic tile, it's not very nice
[16:05:03] <JT-Shop> I just doubled up the holes on the holder and get 2 pins per position
[16:05:25] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, contact nasa for a sq yd of spacesuit material
[16:05:38] <Tom_itx> Jymmm*
[16:06:08] <Tom_itx> or just use nomex
[16:06:10] <A2Sheds> Dean Kamen can't sell his water purification systems and Stirling engines, how are they ever going to let a Thorium reactor to sell?
[16:07:39] -!- ries has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[16:07:42] <DaViruz> well he invented the segway, obviously noone was never going to take him seriously again
[16:08:00] <DaViruz> *ever
[16:08:11] <andypugh> I saw an interesting article about a reactor that uses thorium dissolved in molten salt. (or, possibly, molten thorium salts, I have forgotten). It seemed quite elegant, and was intrinsically fairly safe.
[16:08:18] <A2Sheds> politics has always been the real problem
[16:08:36] <A2Sheds> solve the control and greed gene issue
[16:09:06] <DaViruz> i dont think you can have the cake and eat it
[16:09:09] <cpresser> andypugh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_Salt_Reactor
[16:09:19] <DaViruz> if you remove that you'll remove something important too
[16:10:16] * cpresser is anti all kinds of nuclear power. even if the reacor is safe, humans are not. on top of that, you still have to recycle all the irradiated parts of the reactor itself
[16:12:25] <Jymmm> cpresser: Nah, just have reactors made out of plastic in china
[16:12:39] <Jymmm> and sell at HF
[16:14:40] <DaViruz> sadly there are no alternatives
[16:14:45] <DaViruz> ..no realistic ones
[16:14:50] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I added a shelf at the center line to touch off my tool to :) http://imagebin.org/170159
[16:15:20] <Jymmm> Whats wrong with hydrogen fuel cells?
[16:16:01] <DaViruz> you need to charge them
[16:16:20] <Jymmm> Ok, and the problem is?
[16:16:24] <cpresser> hydrogen is not for free :)
[16:16:36] <DaViruz> the problem is generating the power to charge them.
[16:16:58] <Jymmm> cpresser: Sure it is
[16:17:03] <cpresser> but there is plenty of renewable energy out there. germany already genrates 20% of its total electrical power out of renewables
[16:17:17] <Jymmm> cpresser: H2 - O
[16:17:38] <DaViruz> you need power to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen
[16:17:58] <Jymmm> DaViruz: Sure, the fuel cell generator
[16:18:11] <DaViruz> i really hope you are joking
[16:18:15] <Jymmm> use the Oxygen as a fuel
[16:18:19] <andypugh> cpresser: Not at night. Or in winter.
[16:18:47] <cpresser> wind energy runs virtually all the time
[16:19:10] <DaViruz> except on days without wind
[16:19:14] <Jymmm> DaViruz: No, I'm not. You have water, seperate the elements and you have all the fuel you might need.
[16:19:24] <cpresser> and there is hydro power (only 1% though) and sea-power
[16:19:39] <DaViruz> you need more power to separate the hyrrogen and oxygen than you get from the elements
[16:19:54] <cpresser> Jymmm: i think DaViruz is hinting to the fact that you need quite a lot of electrical power to seperate them :)
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[16:21:14] <andypugh> I am quite angry with German energy policy. They are closing down their nuclear and replacing with coal, negating all the carbon reductions achieved by the whole of the rest of Europe.
[16:21:46] <DaViruz> decisions made in panic are the best ones
[16:21:53] <cpresser> andypugh: youve got a point there. but in case of two evils, which one do you choose?
[16:22:13] <DaViruz> sweden voted to ban all nuclear power before 2010 afther the three mile island incident
[16:22:27] <jdhNC> the world needs more ABWRs and ESBWRs
[16:22:28] <andypugh> The one that generally creates localised waste, that handily glows in the dark
[16:22:30] <cpresser> DaViruz: there was a consens about stopping the use of nuclear power already 10years ago. the government just overthrew it... then changed back :)
[16:22:31] <DaViruz> now it's 2011 and we're planning new reactors
[16:23:21] <cpresser> the best way to solve the 'enery problem' is by using less energy.
[16:23:52] <cpresser> there are plenty of ways to do this
[16:24:03] <jdhNC> population control
[16:24:09] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell#Fueling_stations
[16:25:22] <DaViruz> ooh a magic box which requires nothing and creats infinite amounts of hydrogen
[16:25:27] <DaViruz> that's handy!
[16:25:30] <andypugh> jdhNC: The world population (of humans) looks set to fall after 2050, so if we can get through the 9bn point and out the other side, that's good.
[16:26:07] <Jymmm> DaViruz: I Think it doable, just highly political.
[16:26:16] <DaViruz> then do it
[16:26:37] <Jymmm> DaViruz:Inert your credit card here --> [ ]
[16:26:41] <DaViruz> the math and chemistry is very simple on the subject
[16:26:46] <andypugh> cpresser: I think the problem is that there is only so much energy that you can save, and only so much renewable to be had, and they don't quite meet in the middle.
[16:28:02] <andypugh> Plus, the current renewable sources are very variable, so need some other fast-acting backups to keep the wires full when there are lulls. (windless nights, for example)
[16:28:12] <cpresser> andypugh: right. saving energy is a problem. but there are a lot of cool ideas how to circumvent this. mostly by 'clever use' of energy. bascially energy is still to cheap: most people do not bother to save energy in order to save money. thats the first problem i see.
[16:28:40] <cpresser> think of 'smart grind', only using energy when much wind is available
[16:29:19] <Jymmm> DaViruz: Goodyear owns the patent on a tire that will last 100,000 miles. One of the gas companies owns the patent on a car that gets 120 MPG. It's not in theri best interest to do so.
[16:29:28] <andypugh> Yes, smart appliances could be part of the solution, fridges could be made to turn off for a few minutes while extra capacity comes on line, for example.
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[16:29:57] <cpresser> or saving by using newer techniques; just think of all that electrical motors in all that industrial plants, running 24/265 without any control. adding a vfd would save at least half of that wasted energy
[16:30:05] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/170159
[16:30:24] <JT-Shop> opps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taum_Sauk_Hydroelectric_Power_Station
[16:30:33] <cpresser> but since energy is that cheap, no one bothers to change their personal usage style
[16:30:33] <DaViruz> Jymmm: oh? can you quote the patent numbers?
[16:30:46] <Jymmm> DaViruz: nope
[16:30:50] <DaViruz> also, 95% of all patents doesn't work in reality.
[16:31:03] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Aye, we have a couple like that in Wales.
[16:31:10] <DaViruz> that the idea actually works in practice is not required for a patent.
[16:31:31] <A2Sheds> there are lots of ways to harness, use and save power, but what is anyone doing to make people do it? Most people want to live in some TV show world that never existed
[16:31:40] <cpresser> as an engineer, i think the energy problem is in the peoples heads, not in the real world
[16:32:06] <DaViruz> like someone just said, energy is too cheap
[16:32:11] <JT-Shop> unfortunately AmernUE is a shit company and let it over fill one night and the dam broke
[16:32:11] <andypugh> 100,000 mile tyres are easy if you don't care much about grip. 120mpg cars are easy, if you don't mind going very slowly. (the record for fuel economy is 1200mpg)
[16:32:18] <DaViruz> i can waste it all i want and suffer no consequence
[16:33:51] <A2Sheds> if people actually gave a damn about each other there wouldn't be these problems in the first place and it would solve itself, the problem is people not science and engineering hurdles
[16:34:41] <Jymmm> I still like the molten salt in the desert the best.
[16:34:58] <DaViruz> andypugh: how many hours per mile is very slowly?
[16:35:10] <Jymmm> (if I can't have my hydrogen)
[16:35:11] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, did you catch my note about threading the fixture plate?
[16:35:42] <JT-Shop> yea I think having two pins engaged will suffice
[16:35:42] <DaViruz> (sorry, could not resist)
[16:35:53] <Tom_itx> just for ease of clamping
[16:35:58] <Tom_itx> the pins will hold it
[16:36:14] <andypugh> Actually, I am wrong, the record is nearer 10,000 miles per gallon (4,400km on one litre)
[16:37:01] <Connor> jdhNC: How did you fair with Irene ?
[16:37:07] <DaViruz> i seem to remember reading something along the lines of those numbers
[16:37:40] <DaViruz> but i'm an energy waster too
[16:37:49] <DaViruz> i use the car for a lot of trips where a bike would do just fine
[16:37:56] <pcw_home> Ahh, the world with only doctors, lawyers and policemen
[16:38:02] <andypugh> Here's a 120mpg car that might even be fun to drive: http://www.gizmag.com/go/5921/
[16:38:12] <jdhNC> Connor: not bad, lots of branches and cleanup stuff. Garage got a little flooded, but no big deal.
[16:38:19] <pcw_home> oops
[16:38:27] <Loetmichel> I have seen som footage from irene... looks 50% of the damage done should be credited to the "cardboard" buildings over there
[16:38:28] <andypugh> pcw_home: My PSU was an epic fail.
[16:38:45] <Connor> jdhNC: Hopefully no tools or equipment in the garage..
[16:38:55] <pcw_home> uh oh
[16:39:08] <Loetmichel> a house with walls from concrete/stone would have no nore than a few impacts.
[16:39:16] <andypugh> I just don't understand the NTC things, the numbers just don't add up.
[16:39:54] <andypugh> Typically they have a few ohms resistance, a few watts power capacity and 10A or so current rating.
[16:40:13] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: is the 5i25 and 7i76 available now?
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[16:40:54] <Loetmichel> andypugh: i dont use NTCs for inrush limiter
[16:40:56] <andypugh> Limiting my inrush current to 200A isn't much help, really. The 32A MCB pops at 150A.
[16:41:06] <andypugh> Loetmichel: I think I know why.
[16:41:32] <Loetmichel> i use a normal resistor and a relais driven buy DC out of the SMPS and shorting the Resistor
[16:41:34] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Power resistor switched out with a relay?
[16:41:49] <Loetmichel> andypugh: exactly
[16:41:58] <JT-Shop> and can I use the spindle encoder interface on the 7i76 with the THCAD?
[16:42:08] <andypugh> Yeah, problem is I don't have any low voltage DC in that box.
[16:42:26] <Loetmichel> then use hight voltage ;-)
[16:43:38] <andypugh> Hmm, sounds like a job for a 300V Zener...
[16:45:10] <pcw_home> JT-Shop yes its a standard encoder, cards should be available soon (were building the first 50 of each) but 7I76 I/O needs work
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[16:47:18] <JT-Shop> the firmware or the card needs work?
[16:47:22] <andypugh> Actually, I was joking, but they do seem to exist. Would a couple of Zeners in series with a current-limiting resistor driving a 12V DC relay work? (mainly because it is easier to work out the DC current requirement of a DC relay)
[16:47:27] <FinboySlick> DaViruz: I was thinking of Thorium breeder reactors.
[16:47:35] <FinboySlick> (the molten salt kind)
[16:47:59] <Tom_L> need a new drive for you netbook? http://www2.electronicproducts.com/SSD_replaces_netbook_drive_using_40_pin_ZIF-article-BPJH05_Oct2011-html.aspx
[16:49:22] <pcw_home> Probably better to use a comparator on a bleeder string (driving an opto --> transistor --> 12V relay)
[16:50:20] <andypugh> pcw_home: I was trying to avoid having to include a 12V PSU
[16:50:53] <A2Sheds> anyone have a .1 - 100cps Viscometer they need to sell?
[16:51:06] <pcw_home> Well if you could get 240 VDC relay that would be OK
[16:51:08] <andypugh> Perhaps that proposal does, and I am not visualising it correctly
[16:51:59] <pcw_home> Well it does not need a isolated 12V supply
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[16:58:27] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: does the 7i76 I/O need work or the firmware for it?
[16:59:16] <andypugh> I am thinking that a 12V relay has a 100R coil, so 120mA current, so a 2.5K resistor in series would make it operate on 300V. Admittedly it does have to be a 50W resistor...
[16:59:28] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: You mentioned coreboot earlier. What do you guys use it for?
[17:00:40] <pcw_home> But relays have very poorly defined pull-in and drop-out voltages defined
[17:01:34] <pcw_home> Zener would be better but its also would need to be 50W (unless you use 120VDC or so relay)
[17:01:41] <andypugh> Yes, I was going to try to arrange for a zener to do the detection, but I think that looks like a poor idea.
[17:03:12] <Danimal_garage> morning
[17:03:27] <pcw_home> I think the best is two bleeder strings one with a 5V zener at the bottom to power a comparator
[17:03:28] <andypugh> I am starting to think that this switch-on sequence might be easier in HAL....
[17:03:29] <pcw_home> and one as a voltage divider to drive one comparator input (other input is like 5V/2)
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[17:04:02] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: open source firmware and BIOS, fast boots (<2 sec power-on to login) , secure systems etc
[17:04:06] <pcw_home> Yeah could just be software soft start
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[17:04:40] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Well, I know about coreboot, I was wondering what your specific app was.
[17:04:47] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: with EMC2 , we don't use SMI, EFI and we can tweak for lowest IRQ latency
[17:05:06] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Hehe, that's sort of what I was hoping for :)
[17:05:35] <A2Sheds> ah, I actually design mainboards as well for embedded and supercomputers
[17:05:49] <pcw_home> JT-Shop: 7I76 needs firmware and HostMot2 SSerial/SSLBP firmware needs discovery
[17:06:46] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: So it's all on custom boards?
[17:06:48] <A2Sheds> the project actually got started at Los Alamos by Ron Minnich for clusters, he had >1K pcs and BIOS changers took days by a team of people
[17:06:49] <JT-Shop> ok, I plan on setting up a D510 or 525 for the plamsa using the 5i25 7i76 combo
[17:07:05] <A2Sheds> changers/changes
[17:07:36] <pcw_home> 7I76/5I25 Step/Dir and encoder work fine with with latest patches but more work needed on embedded 32 input /16 output SSERIAL I/O
[17:07:39] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: we also support some off the shelf consumer boards
[17:08:01] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: For IRQ latency optimizations?
[17:08:23] <Danimal_garage> i still get realtime delay errors with my 510
[17:08:39] <A2Sheds> mostly AMD now that AMD has a team of devs supporting coreboot on all their new CPU and chipsets
[17:09:12] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I have an ALIX board, but I don't think it would be fast enough for EMC2.
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[17:09:33] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: I'm working on getting a few Fusion boards tweaked for EMC
[17:10:00] <A2Sheds> http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=E350M1 or similar
[17:10:13] <andypugh> Hmm, I found a 110V DC coil relay, with a 23k coil. (and 16A current rating). That would make things easier
[17:10:13] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Keep me posted on progress, I'll be happy to act as a tester. Basically, I'll be able to check if your boards are fit for dumb people ;)
[17:10:47] <JT-Shop> Danimal_garage: running a base thread or just a servo thread
[17:11:15] <pcw_home> a 110v relay makes the zener solution more practical
[17:11:22] <A2Sheds> SWPadnos IIRC found some ATOM boards that had really good latency tests, sub 1 microsecond jitter, I hope to do the same or better with Fusion
[17:12:28] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Is this one of them? http://www.pcengines.ch/alix1d.htm
[17:12:47] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: I'm building some 3 axis materials dep/inkjet printers now and I need the boards myself
[17:13:08] <A2Sheds> nowox, they weren't the Geodes
[17:13:33] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I was meaning that I'd buy off the shelf boards and test your coreboot tweaks ;)
[17:13:44] <A2Sheds> sure, soonish
[17:14:24] <A2Sheds> it will be on the coreboot.org site, check back in a month or so
[17:15:14] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Sort of fits my timing too.
[17:15:33] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: You think it's worth trying to get something out of my geode?
[17:15:39] <A2Sheds> lots of devs just getting back from vacations, lots of cleanups and patches are due
[17:16:06] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: try the latency test
[17:17:08] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Yeah. I meant more in terms of if it's able to run EMC2 itself decently.
[17:17:30] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: I've used some 1GHz VIA C7's before that worked OK, just the occasional phantom IRQ glitch
[17:17:46] <FinboySlick> These are just 550Mhz.
[17:17:53] <andypugh> pcw_home: I am a bit unsure how a zener would behave in series with a relay. (so suspect that isn't how it would be wired). Until the voltage is reached, it won't conduct. But once it conducts, the voltage across the zener drops due to the resitance of the coil, so presumably it would switch off again?
[17:19:22] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: just keep the graphics to a minimum
[17:20:27] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Yeah. Ideally what I'd want is EMC on the alix and the GUI on another box.
[17:21:44] <FinboySlick> I also have a Pandaboard which has loads of GPIO, but I don't know if I could get EMC2 working on ARM. I read that RTAI is supported mind you.
[17:21:55] <pcw_home> andy the Zener has a fixed voltage drop so ~200V zener would do
[17:21:58] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: the repraps do pretty well with g-code with 3 axis steppers on some AVR's
[17:22:10] <A2Sheds> I have a pandaboard as well
[17:22:38] <FinboySlick> They're neat little boards. I barely had time to play with mine though.
[17:23:07] <A2Sheds> we were working on EMC for ARM but there is a big mess with Linux ARM at the moment
[17:23:18] <A2Sheds> poor cooperation
[17:23:43] <A2Sheds> even Russel King is fed up
[17:24:31] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: So most of the issues are kernel-side?
[17:25:13] <A2Sheds> yeah
[17:25:28] <pcw_home> Also the ARM boards seem to have a platform lifetime of about 6 months to a year (as opposed to ~30years)
[17:26:28] <A2Sheds> most ARM devs use Xenomai since they aren't shooting for lowest response time
[17:26:44] <A2Sheds> but RTAI is not a problem, just fewer devs
[17:27:33] <A2Sheds> Marvell has some multicore ARM soc's with PCIe but they got delayed due to fab issues
[17:27:34] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: For the pandaboard though, getting something working shouldn't be terrible, no? It's a known configuration.
[17:27:52] <andypugh> Would a 240V 2A rated connector be happy with the same supply rectified? I can't see why not.
[17:28:25] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: if the GPIO is fast enough to interface to a FPGA
[17:28:39] <pcw_home> For make, but not for break (unless you like big long arcs)
[17:28:51] <skunkworks> heh
[17:28:52] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Would it really need to be? One could go straight-out stepgen, no?
[17:29:03] <skunkworks> dc sucks for break
[17:29:15] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: the Tegra2 has PCIe but all the vendors hardwire it to 1GBethernet, no mini-pcie slot
[17:29:15] <andypugh> The connector in question isn't rated for live-break anyway.
[17:29:17] <pcw_home> blowout coils etc
[17:29:51] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: I never tested the GPIO speed to really know how fast they could toggle
[17:30:09] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I think it would be an interesting route.
[17:30:18] <pcw_home> Same peak voltage so for non-live pluggin should be OK
[17:30:56] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Don't you have 20+ free ones straitht off the board?
[17:31:32] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: I got really tired of the lack of sharing with the TI and arm tablet linux devs
[17:32:35] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: GSOC had a coreboot port to ARM, I was waiting for all the patches before I started back on OMAP
[17:33:02] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: Pandaboard does use u-boot however
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[17:33:19] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Yeah, I was about to say that there's no bios on it.
[17:34:12] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: I'd prefer a multicore ARM SOC with PCIe so I could easily use the Mesa IO cards
[17:34:49] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: that is my plan for later this year
[17:35:30] <FinboySlick> OK. If I manage to get emc2 on mine, I'd love to test the gpio route myself.
[17:35:57] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: probably low cost Marvell board with PCIe
[17:36:34] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: TI has a cortex a8 Sitara with PCIe
[17:36:35] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I have a few GuruPlugs laying around but there's no usable interface on those.
[17:37:31] <pcw_home> I think one problem is the ARM "platform" is just the SOC dejour
[17:37:32] <pcw_home> and since these SOCs are chiefly for cell-phone/tablet markets
[17:37:34] <pcw_home> they have the proximate volatility of ether on the sun...
[17:37:36] <A2Sheds> http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-35-openrd-ultimate.aspx look at the openRD, it has PCIe slot on the back
[17:38:20] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I'd focus my efforts on the pandaboard.
[17:38:46] <andypugh> They cost a lot more than a PC. What am I missing?
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[17:39:56] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: I tried, but TI has decided to only support a few embedded vendors. I'm not going to pay $200 for a OMAP module that I still have to design a board around
[17:40:24] <andypugh> Anyway, time to wrestle with tyres and tyre levers.
[17:40:37] <pcw_home> Flat?
[17:41:30] <A2Sheds> the nvidia tegra is only $25 ea , the entire BOM for a tegra tablet is ~$100
[17:41:31] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Wouldn't you just need to upconvert 3.3v output to 12v and be done?
[17:42:57] <andypugh> I am swapping the leaky inner-tube on my enduro bike for a Tubliss thing (google it if you are interested)
[17:43:44] <Tom_itx> pcw_home since you run xilinx 9.2 i figured you'd know. where's the settings.sh is located? after install, mine didn't seem to have one
[17:43:58] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: not sure how well it will work, the omap35xx in the beagleboard had GPIO issues
[17:44:29] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, this is on the ubuntu 10.04 pc btw
[17:44:45] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Well, if I can get mine to boot, I'll give it a go and report.
[17:45:52] <A2Sheds> pcw_home: that is true for most ARM soc's, but TI and Marvell do offer parts for embedded, it also that the fabs are just tweaking ARM and the GPU's for higher speeds
[17:46:00] <FinboySlick> Oh god, poor thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJq4jWSQNd8
[17:46:04] <pcw_home> Alas I only run Xilinx on winders
[17:46:10] <A2Sheds> the same that x86 experienced a few years ago
[17:46:25] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, using cygwin for the ghdl?
[17:46:41] <pcw_home> I dont use GHDL
[17:46:50] <Tom_itx> the readme indicated you needed to
[17:47:21] <A2Sheds> so ARM is evolving really rapidly now, core speeds will probably top out at 4GHz like x86 and then we''l see 8, 16 32 core devices
[17:47:22] <pcw_home> EMCs sources are (slightly) different than ours
[17:48:00] <Tom_itx> where would i load the vhd for building a bit file then?
[17:48:24] <Tom_itx> or is that a command line script
[17:48:56] <A2Sheds> tegra3 is a quad core and I've heard rumors of their 8 core >2GHz
[17:49:01] <pcw_home> ENC uses a command line script while I use the GUI (I can use the GUI generated script as well)
[17:49:08] <pcw_home> EMC
[17:49:42] <Tom_itx> you can't build it from within ise then?
[17:50:12] <A2Sheds> I don't see Tegra with EMC since there is little cooperation with embedded and nobody routes the PCIe out to a slot
[17:51:44] <A2Sheds> AMD has some fusion devices down to 4W, I'm trying to see how well they work with EMC
[17:53:50] <A2Sheds> 64bit Fusion with great graphics with PCIe for ~$100, coreboot for low latency + Mesa boards
[17:54:53] <A2Sheds> ARM solutions all still cost more and offer far more headaches unfortunately
[17:55:53] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: You have a point there.
[17:56:04] <pcw_home> Yeah maybe ARM will take over the world, but there have been at least 2 multi billion dollar efforts to supplant
[17:56:06] <pcw_home> x86 in the general purpose/high performance area and both have failed. as computing has become more mobile
[17:56:08] <pcw_home> its natural that a better architecture would supplant x86 for power consumption reasons but whether there
[17:56:09] <A2Sheds> I had big plans for ARM last year
[17:56:10] <pcw_home> will be good chips and platforms for general purpose control I do not know
[17:56:55] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: You tested the ASRock board you showed me before?
[17:57:03] <A2Sheds> I'm open to building a multicore Marvell ARM board with FPGA and PCIe to interface to Mesa boards
[17:57:21] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: it has some irq issues that we are fixing
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[17:58:34] <FinboySlick> OK. My current setup has <7000 jitter but there's a very rare spike that doesn't look time related on it which worries me.
[17:59:47] <FinboySlick> I'd love to find an alternative that doesn't trade this kind of performance for stability.
[18:00:38] <A2Sheds> we are in the middle of it all, this should all be worked out by the holiday season
[18:01:42] <A2Sheds> AMD has a coreboot team in Beijing plus a developer in the US
[18:03:39] <A2Sheds> there have been vendors at Computex with ARM netbooks and PCIe slots, they show up on day 1, but then pull them out of the show and say they were "mistakes"
[18:04:09] <A2Sheds> Toshiba had one last year that they only sold in Europe
[18:05:03] <A2Sheds> Acer was supposed to have one earlier this month http://laptopadvisor.blogspot.com/2011/07/acer-to-launch-nvidia-tegra-netbook.html
[18:05:11] <A2Sheds> it hasn't arrived yet
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[18:07:47] <A2Sheds> http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Toshiba-AC100/ but they didn't route the PCIe out to a connector
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[18:47:11] <Danimal_garage> wow, the mice are getting smart, not sure how they're getting the peanutbutter out of the trap.
[18:48:00] <jdhNC> they outsource it to smaller, lighter animals
[18:48:20] <Danimal_garage> lol
[18:48:36] <Danimal_garage> there's even mouse droppings in the trap
[18:48:42] <Danimal_garage> bastards
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[18:49:07] <Danimal_garage> pretty sensitive trap too
[18:49:35] <aphex_> hi *
[18:50:18] <aphex_> its my first time here ... : ]
[18:50:36] <aphex_> can i bother you with some technical questions?
[18:50:57] <micges> just ask
[18:50:59] <rooks> strike problem at the source, put some pots with growing aromatic plants/herbs that will make mice react like cat to the orange http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23MMVm8gLWI
[18:51:03] <aphex_> k
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[18:51:09] <rooks> Danimal_garage, ↑
[18:51:15] <aphex_> so you may talked to my colleague today..
[18:51:29] <aphex_> we re trying to velocity control 2 motors
[18:51:53] <aphex_> and we need to start them the same time
[18:52:31] <aphex_> so unfortunatelly emcrsh cant help here...
[18:53:21] <aphex_> you advised to create an rt app for that
[18:53:45] <rooks> Danimal_garage, i know one girl in australia that successfully uses orange peel to keep her cats from digging up her plants :)
[18:54:25] <aphex_> but looks like a bit complicated thing :)
[18:54:37] <aphex_> any help would be appreciated ..
[18:54:39] <rooks> its putting up a system that will stay there forever
[18:55:01] <syyl> hmm
[18:55:03] <rooks> that girl dices peels and burries it with the earth near plants :)
[18:55:09] <syyl> time to build a better mouse trap?
[18:55:26] <aphex_> is stepgen ok for that?
[18:55:29] <rooks> just inconvenience mouse enough to go away :)
[18:55:49] <syyl> i have a crossbow and a ultrasonicsensor in mind ;)
[18:56:22] <JT-Shop> aphex_: it is not a trivial thing you wish to do, so it will take some work
[18:56:31] <JT-Shop> I thought it was servo driven?
[18:57:03] <rooks> syyl, lol, sif
[18:57:19] <aphex_> it okay, we really need this, cause are trolley doesnt moves...
[18:57:23] <rooks> i have this in mind http://www.earth-kind.com/Resources/Article20/tabid/443/Default.aspx
[18:57:53] <syyl> ah, a bit less bloody ;)
[18:58:04] <aphex_> are->our
[18:58:06] <aphex_> :)
[18:58:47] <jdhNC> they only need to start at the same time? or they need to be synchronzed forever?
[18:59:17] <aphex_> so we have 2 driver 2 motors, a muxer on the paralell port..
[18:59:18] <rooks> that orange peel in the soil really works on cats and on youtube you seen the same :) i have a cat and she totally doesnt want an orange peel as any other cat :) she even doesnt like toothpaste so maybe place a bit of herbal toothpaste?
[18:59:45] <rooks> dunno tho what mouse doesnt like, gotta ask someone who keeps mice as pets
[19:00:18] <aphex_> the path of the robot will be calculated though a fuzzy controller, which outputs the desired speed for both wheels
[19:00:23] <syyl> i had mice a long time ago as pets
[19:01:17] <Jymmm> Those bait traps are very effective.
[19:01:30] <aphex_> but even if connecting on localhost with though emcrsh the latency was at least 1/5 sec
[19:04:48] <micges> aphex_: can you shortly describe what you want to do?
[19:05:35] <JT-Shop> aphex_: at the bottom of this page is the man pages for the real time components http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/
[19:05:46] <JT-Shop> makes it easier to find them
[19:06:09] <aphex_> sure, we have 2 servo motors, they are intended to drive the rear wheels of a mobile robot
[19:07:01] <JT-Shop> so for straight ahead both servos turn the same speed
[19:07:19] <JT-Shop> to go right the left goes faster the right goes slower
[19:07:19] <aphex_> yes
[19:07:21] <JT-Shop> etc
[19:07:26] <aphex_> this is
[19:07:52] <micges> ok and what's the problem?
[19:07:55] <JT-Shop> the servo drives take velocity input?
[19:08:05] <aphex_> but if one of them start later then the other it wont go straight ahead
[19:08:54] <micges> and you want drive it by emc
[19:08:56] <aphex_> they are working fine together with emc, and it possible to drive them at a speed with the emcrsh
[19:08:58] <jdhNC> can't it correct itself?
[19:09:26] <jdhNC> if there is no directional feedback, it can't deal with any slippage
[19:09:31] <aphex_> its about 1 m high, 1 m long, width 0.5 meter
[19:09:43] <aphex_> and ~300 kg
[19:09:59] <micges> aphex_: ok but what's the problem
[19:10:31] <aphex_> made of steel, it can carry 2 boxes on mini conveyors, and has also a mitsubishi robot arm on it...
[19:11:02] <aphex_> so its quite important to control it correct :)
[19:11:28] <aphex_> the probem is, that if i send:
[19:11:38] <aphex_> set jog 0 20
[19:11:43] <aphex_> set jog 1 20
[19:12:02] <aphex_> they wont start in the same time
[19:12:13] <micges> ok
[19:12:26] <micges> you've got wireless connection to robot right?
[19:12:51] <aphex_> i have also tried it connecting on localhost
[19:12:58] <aphex_> so on the robot pc
[19:13:16] <aphex_> the latency is because of the tcp/ip connection
[19:13:53] <aphex_> and i guess, the emcrsh server just forwards the commands to an interpreter
[19:14:18] <aphex_> it would be perfect to feed this interpreter directly from code
[19:14:56] <micges> emcrsh isn't designed to be used in application like this
[19:15:20] <A2Sheds> http://www.turnstiles.us/images/SourceLink/IMAGE001.JPG don't they have mouse size versions of these?
[19:15:24] <aphex_> have found, that the stepgen has the same functions as emcrsh..
[19:15:53] <aphex_> yes i know ist mainly for cnc...
[19:17:21] <micges> what commands do you need on this robot?
[19:17:27] <A2Sheds> http://www.professionalequipment.com/gremar-kwik-katch-mouse-trap-kwik/animal-trap/
[19:17:35] <micges> forward, reverse, left, right? more?
[19:17:45] <aphex_> just to control the motor with speed
[19:18:25] <micges> no direction change?
[19:18:52] <aphex_> you are right, direction to, so speed and direction
[19:19:28] <micges> do you know hal well ?
[19:19:32] <micges> emc hal
[19:19:37] <JT-Shop> lol
[19:20:19] <andypugh> aphex_: Do you ever want to move just one motor?
[19:21:02] <aphex_> the most time both of them needs to get driven
[19:21:25] <aphex_> and i dont know the hal, never wrote an rt application
[19:22:16] <jdhNC> is there a reason you are using emc at all?
[19:22:20] <andypugh> But sometimes you just want to move one?
[19:23:24] <micges> no, no rt application, this part of emc: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/hal_basic_hal.html
[19:23:29] <aphex_> maybe, for example if you drive them at the same speed, with different direction it turns around its vertical axis
[19:23:59] <andypugh> One way (and I am not at all sure it is a good way) would be to set up gantrykins and use that (but only if you can change from joint mode to world mode in emcrsh)
[19:24:12] <andypugh> Why emcrsh?
[19:25:12] <andypugh> You might be better with a remote GladeVDP GUI linked to the controller by ssh, if you absolutely have to control from a remote location.
[19:26:02] <micges> yes with custom VCP panel to control velocity and direction of robot
[19:26:03] <aphex_> we dont need to controll it remote
[19:26:15] <aphex_> exactly, the goal would be not to do so :)
[19:26:40] <aphex_> so as fast as possible, with axis, direction and speed selection
[19:26:56] <micges> you should say so earler
[19:28:14] <aphex_> so shall i send a picture?
[19:29:29] <micges> what input does your servo drivers accept?
[19:29:41] <micges> analog? step dir? other?
[19:30:53] <aphex_> it accepts steps
[19:32:04] <micges> after learning hal, make custom pyVCP panel with let say sliders to control direction and speed and connect them in hal with two stepgen components
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[19:32:50] <micges> what velocities you want?
[19:33:13] <JT-Shop> could you have one slider for direction to change the scale of the two stepgens
[19:34:17] <JT-Shop> center both have the same scale off to the right the left wheel has less steps per unit and right wheel has more steps per unit?
[19:34:22] <aphex_> the pyVCP sounds very good!
[19:34:57] <aphex_> yes, it is also possible to output speed, and diff between wheels, if necessary
[19:35:06] <micges> JT-Shop: yes this could be direction slider, and velocity slider also
[19:35:53] <aphex_> can i find some examples how to write such code? (sure after learning the hal:)
[19:38:36] <micges> in sample configs "puma" and "sim/lathe" you have examples of pyvcp that reads some values from hal and display them
[19:38:58] <micges> just change controls to some input (like slider)
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[19:41:14] <aphex_> thanks for that!
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[19:42:42] <micges> welcome
[19:43:21] <micges> aphex_: btw what weather is in hungary?
[19:43:38] <aphex_> now its okay :)
[19:43:47] <aphex_> about 18 C
[19:44:04] <aphex_> oh no
[19:44:19] <aphex_> on the weather.com its 23 @ Budapest
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[19:44:39] <micges> I have been on balaton two weeks ago, it was 32 C three days a row
[19:44:56] <aphex_> yes i remember :)
[19:45:23] <aphex_> on saturday came some cool wind, but its still summer :)
[19:45:37] <aphex_> where are you micges?
[19:45:43] <micges> In Poland
[19:45:48] <aphex_> oh
[19:46:18] <micges> in 3 days I was able to learn only two words: hi and cave :D
[19:46:34] <aphex_> im planning to travel to Krakkow in september
[19:47:06] <micges> where are you now?
[19:47:12] <aphex_> hehe cave :D
[19:47:32] <micges> barlang
[19:47:34] <andypugh> I like caves. I suspect that this is a different meaning though.
[19:47:34] <aphex_> and how is it in hungarian?
[19:47:38] <aphex_> yep :]
[19:48:03] <aphex_> am in Budapest
[19:48:09] <micges> andypugh: I also like caves
[19:48:26] <aphex_> ye, caves are cool :]
[19:48:52] <aphex_> andypugh, you also from Polland?
[19:49:01] <aphex_> -l
[19:49:03] <andypugh> I used to go caving three times a week. I was quite fit at that point.
[19:49:09] <andypugh> No, UK.
[19:49:34] <micges> great
[19:49:44] <micges> there is only few in Poland
[19:49:53] <aphex_> in Hungary too
[19:50:03] <aphex_> and i did not see most of them
[19:50:06] <aphex_> :|
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[19:50:31] <andypugh> Does anyone recall a problem with G-code stopping after a while? I do have a vague memory that an issue being seen by someone on the forum has been seen before.
[19:50:34] <micges> I saw 'caves' near balaton, it was man made
[19:51:09] <aphex_> man made? oh that isnt a real one :)
[19:51:24] <micges> I didn't knew it before
[19:51:31] <Danimal_garage> my garage is a man cave
[19:51:35] <micges> becouse of language
[19:54:20] <JT-Shop> andypugh: he is using TKEMC... anything ring a bell with that
[19:55:26] <andypugh> No, I found an unresolved problem from Kirk Wallace (20/6/2009) making an encoder wheel, though that was in Axis.
[19:56:28] <micges> andypugh: I also saw this problem in Axis and my own GUI, but didn't manage to track it, it was very random
[19:56:34] <micges> and rare
[19:56:46] <andypugh> This one appears to be repeatable
[19:56:51] <cradek> andypugh: what version of emc?
[19:57:02] <andypugh> We don't know yet, but 10.04 liveCD
[19:58:41] <JT-Shop> he did say it didn't stop in the same place or time
[19:59:47] <andypugh> So, we still have "random", but not "rare"
[20:00:05] <JT-Shop> yes
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[20:00:41] <Danimal_garage> i had a program do that before
[20:00:47] <andypugh> I didn't know that tkemc had "stop" and "resume" buttons, so assumed Axis.
[20:01:23] <Danimal_garage> couldn't figure it out.... did it in the same spot of a program repeatedly
[20:01:39] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui_tkemc.html
[20:01:48] <Danimal_garage> a program that was used many times before
[20:02:42] <Danimal_garage> i restarted emc and it was fine after.... i think it was a g code being carried over from a previous program though
[20:03:54] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: this what you had in mind? http://imagebin.org/170185
[20:06:11] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Seems a tad elaborate.
[20:06:21] <JT-Shop> but it was fun to mak
[20:06:23] <JT-Shop> make
[20:06:37] <andypugh> Using a lathe back-gear as an index not an option then?
[20:06:56] <JT-Shop> it's at the other shop across town
[20:07:01] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: how's the trike coming?
[20:07:22] <JT-Shop> I still need to pressure wash the axle
[20:07:46] <JT-Shop> but first I need to take the blown hyd hose off the backhoe :/
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[22:36:28] <cncbasher> anyone know if the spindle speed pyvcp panel works in 2.5 ?
[22:39:33] <andypugh> Well, it is certainly possible to have a spindle speed pyvcp in 2.5, but I assume you are talking about a pre-written one?
[22:40:14] <cncbasher> yea using the one from pncconf
[22:40:51] <cncbasher> i have a value in spindle-fb-filtered.abs-rpm , but not showing at the panel
[22:41:08] <andypugh> I don't think it has been deliberately broken.
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[22:43:53] <cncbasher> wondered if anyone using it , could confirm etc
[22:44:29] <cncbasher> i know it was working put that was a few months ago
[22:45:05] <cncbasher> i'll look deeper thanks
[22:45:51] <andypugh> If not, ask Chris M via the forum, I don't think we see him here.
[22:46:24] <cncbasher> yes will do
[22:51:44] <mikegg> I can confirm that the bar graph works. but my encoder is disconnected until I make a new bit file....
[22:52:11] <mikegg> works = doesn't throw an error and appears in the GUI that is
[22:56:48] <cncbasher> ok thanks i'm not getting the bargraph moving at all
[23:00:23] <Tom_itx> the scripts in 9.2 must be different than newer versions
[23:01:25] <cncbasher> u have a problem ?
[23:03:00] <Tom_itx> i just finished the install on ubuntu and haven't had time to check but i didn't see any in windows either
[23:03:22] <Tom_itx> both 9.2 servicepack 4
[23:03:43] <cncbasher> it uses the command line
[23:04:20] <Tom_itx> the settings32.sh
[23:04:24] <Tom_itx> is what i can't find
[23:04:29] <Tom_itx> or any settings.sh file
[23:04:37] <cncbasher> make the script file executable in the properties and you should get a terminal running
[23:05:10] <cncbasher> change settings32.sh to settings.sh in the script
[23:05:28] <Tom_itx> in what script?
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[23:05:59] <cncbasher> the one you made yesterday from
[23:06:07] <cncbasher> me
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[23:06:56] <Tom_itx> ok
[23:07:29] <Tom_itx> there is no settings.sh though
[23:07:37] <Tom_itx> that i could find
[23:07:44] <cncbasher> their must be
[23:07:53] <Tom_itx> lemme check again
[23:08:03] <cncbasher> wonder if xilinx installed correctly
[23:08:05] <andypugh> Just lookong on the 'Zone and found a rant about http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/4-Precision-Drill-Press-Vise/SB1215 which is written up like it is a lovely bit of kit, but is in fact Chinese junk.
[23:08:25] <cncbasher> did you install using sudo ./setup
[23:08:28] <Tom_itx> i built an old project with it and it seemed to work
[23:08:35] <Tom_itx> no
[23:08:43] <Tom_itx> i clicked on setup in the gui
[23:08:50] <Tom_itx> and it appeared to install fine
[23:09:12] <cncbasher> ok we shall take it that it installed ok in that case
[23:09:44] <Tom_itx> does windows have a similar file?
[23:10:17] <cncbasher> you dont need it in windows
[23:10:24] <Tom_itx> alright
[23:10:49] <Tom_itx> i did a locate setting*.sh and nothing returned
[23:11:04] <cncbasher> i am going by memory ,.. you can import the tcl script in windows
[23:11:32] <Jymmm> http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=22984504&server=vimeo.com&show_title=0&show_byline=0&show_portrait=0&color=00adef&fullscreen=1&autoplay=1&loop=0
[23:11:38] -!- atom1 [atom1!~tom@ip68-102-126-3.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #emc
[23:11:57] <cncbasher> i dont have 9.1 etc , the nearest i have to yours is 10.2
[23:12:12] <cncbasher> you can download 10.2 etc from xilinx
[23:12:16] <Tom_itx> what do you use normally?
[23:12:20] <Tom_itx> 10.2?
[23:12:23] <cncbasher> yes
[23:12:36] <Tom_itx> i may try that if this is a no go
[23:12:48] <cncbasher> their website holds all older versions
[23:12:54] <Tom_itx> maybe they named the file differently
[23:12:56] <Tom_itx> i know
[23:13:00] <cncbasher> might be worth a go
[23:13:01] <Tom_itx> well most
[23:13:10] <Tom_itx> i have 4.2 :)
[23:13:34] <cncbasher> must be on floppies in that case
[23:13:55] <Tom_itx> probably was but i downloaded it back then as well
[23:14:12] <Tom_itx> aary
[23:14:15] <cncbasher> phew it must have been a weeks download
[23:14:18] <Tom_itx> i see the file
[23:14:39] <Tom_itx> there is also a settings.csh
[23:14:48] <Tom_itx> i wonder why the search didn't locate it
[23:14:53] <cncbasher> the .csh is a copy
[23:16:00] <Tom_itx> is there some refresh command to do after doing an install so the system caches all the filenames?
[23:16:07] <Tom_itx> apparently it's missing that one
[23:16:16] <cncbasher> try a reboot
[23:16:25] <cncbasher> thats all i did at the time
[23:16:25] <Tom_itx> i have
[23:16:36] <cncbasher> could be permissions
[23:17:09] <Tom_itx> i did it in the same directory looking at the file and locate doesn't see it
[23:17:19] <Tom_itx> i'm in a terminal and did sudo su
[23:17:44] <Tom_itx> this is odd
[23:18:12] <cncbasher> maybe it's a hidden file
[23:18:31] <cncbasher> but altering the batch file it should work
[23:18:38] <Tom_itx> ok
[23:19:06] <cncbasher> then set the batch file to being executable
[23:19:17] <Tom_itx> does it matter where the batch file is?
[23:19:21] <cncbasher> no
[23:19:29] <cncbasher> i have mine in my home
[23:19:33] <cncbasher> dir
[23:20:08] <cncbasher> arh sorry
[23:20:20] <cncbasher> in the hostmot2-firmware
[23:20:20] <Tom_itx> mine's in the emc dir
[23:20:31] <Tom_itx> probably a better place for it
[23:20:38] <cncbasher> same directory as the firmware.txt fiel
[23:20:40] <cncbasher> file
[23:20:44] <Tom_itx> yeah
[23:21:15] <Tom_itx> where does the bit file end up? in the hostmot2-firmware dir?
[23:21:22] <cncbasher> yes
[23:21:31] <Tom_itx> i may try one to test it out
[23:21:40] <cncbasher> it makes another directory called FW
[23:22:08] <cncbasher> then all built files are within that directory
[23:22:51] <cncbasher> if you run make clean , it removes fw .. and it's recreated on a new build
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[23:23:17] <Tom_itx> add that to the sh?
[23:23:22] <Tom_itx> make clean then make
[23:23:38] <cncbasher> you can do
[23:24:41] <cncbasher> did you install ghdl ?
[23:24:52] <Tom_itx> yep
[23:24:56] <cncbasher> ok
[23:25:02] <Tom_itx> although pcw seems to think it's not needed
[23:25:07] <Tom_itx> at least in winders
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[23:25:32] <cncbasher> ghdl is needed to produce the xml file in linux
[23:25:41] <cncbasher> not needed in windows
[23:26:24] <Tom_itx> ok
[23:26:34] <Tom_itx> i'll do some testing here in a bit
[23:26:41] <Tom_itx> right in the middle of kids homework
[23:26:46] <cncbasher> i have the set of firmware already set in windows format if it's any easier
[23:27:03] <cncbasher> but you may need version 10.2 or 13.1
[23:27:49] <cncbasher> it's 12:30am here in the UK
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[23:28:09] <cncbasher> or should i say 00:30
[23:28:34] <cncbasher> thought the house was quiet
[23:32:29] <Tom_itx> no worries, i'll work on it
[23:34:57] <cncbasher> leave me a message , and we can sort it out if you have problem
[23:35:47] <Tom_itx> command not found
[23:35:53] <Tom_itx> running it in linux
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[23:39:16] <mikegg> I think I got it. I've got gobs of stuff at the terminal anyway
[23:39:29] <Tom_itx> maybe if i get all the paths right it will
[23:39:31] <Tom_itx> :)
[23:39:41] <mikegg> you said you had trouble finding settings.sh?
[23:39:52] <Tom_itx> locate missed it but it's there
[23:40:57] <cncbasher> if the terminal is listing then you should find a sub directory fw
[23:41:22] <cncbasher> and the built files in their
[23:41:47] <mikegg> cool
[23:42:09] <mikegg> I changed firmware.txt so it's only running on TPEN6_6
[23:42:28] <cncbasher> should only take 5 miins or so in that case
[23:42:34] <mikegg> yep, just finished
[23:42:39] <mikegg> sweet
[23:42:57] <andypugh> I like the idea of a web page where you specify an FPGA card and what functions you want, and a bitfile gets emailed to you a little later.
[23:43:10] <Tom_itx> no kidding
[23:43:23] <Tom_itx> this is an educational exercise
[23:43:35] <Tom_itx> i do those all the time
[23:43:54] <mikegg> shit, they do wives that way. why not firmware?
[23:44:17] <andypugh> mikegg: URL?
[23:44:29] <Tom_itx> you may get more than you pay for
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[23:44:42] <mikegg> now where is that bookmark....
[23:44:46] <andypugh> It's my last hope.
[23:44:51] <mikegg> hah
[23:45:01] <Tom_itx> some .ru
[23:45:47] <andypugh> Closest I had decided germany wasn't far enough away from me, and has run away to sea. Currently 600 miles from Rio on her way round the world for 12 months.
[23:45:51] <cncbasher> i am looking at something similar to pncconf , but you input the connections and it produces the bit to suit
[23:46:23] <andypugh> cncbasher: Tricky, though, as we can't distribute the Xylinx compiler with EMC2
[23:46:45] <andypugh> It's free, but not Free.
[23:46:54] <cncbasher> yea understood
[23:47:34] <cncbasher> or produce the app for people that do have xilinx
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[23:48:51] <mikegg> the stuff under constant Module ID, is that generally the same for each firmware? (within, for example, the 5i20)
[23:50:09] <mikegg> am I safe to cut and paste under constant PinDesc?
[23:50:29] <mikegg> food time, brb.
[23:51:11] <Tom_itx> mikegg, care to post your script? or is it the same as i have?
[23:51:14] <cncbasher> you only need to change the pin descriptions
[23:51:20] <Tom_itx> i keep getting command not found
[23:52:04] <cncbasher> Tom have you spelt the filenames correctly ?
[23:52:13] <Tom_itx> i double checked that
[23:52:16] <cncbasher> linux is case sensitive
[23:52:18] <Tom_itx> case as well
[23:52:26] <cncbasher> ok
[23:52:57] <cncbasher> iv'e fell for that one a few tmes
[23:53:10] <cncbasher> ok open a terminal
[23:53:27] <atom1> open
[23:53:37] <mikegg> I changed that line to this: source ~/Xilinx92i/settings.sh
[23:53:42] <cncbasher> and type each line and see which line it errors on
[23:53:56] <mikegg> and then saved it with no extension and made it executable
[23:54:32] <atom1> mikegg, samehere
[23:54:43] <atom1> i changed it to executable
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[23:55:56] <atom1> mikegg, what's your XILINX= line?
[23:57:31] <cncbasher> try using a full path /home/name/Xilinx... etc
[23:57:42] <atom1> i did
[23:58:02] <atom1> XILINX=/home/tom/Xilinx92i/bin/lin/ise
[23:59:23] <cncbasher> try . ~/.....
[23:59:45] <cncbasher> insert period