#emc | Logs for 2011-08-12

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[03:51:38] <IG-garage> gene76: 4 numbers after decimal dot are standard for .ini files. You probably can use more numbers.
[03:52:03] <IG-garage> if you properly fill the 'PRECISION' line in the INI files
[03:52:16] <elmo40> who needs anything more?
[03:52:21] <elmo40> who can even measure anything more?
[03:52:26] <IG-garage> elmoitians
[03:53:03] <IG-garage> there was a web page about home-built mill with nanometers as its precision
[03:53:27] <elmo40> bah
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[03:53:33] <IG-garage> ha!
[03:53:37] <elmo40> flabbergash, I tell ya
[03:53:43] <elmo40> who cares?
[03:53:55] <elmo40> what did they produce, mirrors for Hubble?
[03:54:02] <IG-garage> i don't really know. That's for non-standard use
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[03:54:20] <elmo40> honestly. no one needs more then 0.0001
[03:54:29] <elmo40> +/-
[03:54:37] <IG-garage> yeah, but geeks need
[03:54:43] <elmo40> anything smaller and you need super accurate machines to measure it!
[03:54:47] <IG-garage> cause they're geeks
[03:54:50] <elmo40> no hand tools
[03:54:57] <elmo40> climate controlled environment
[03:55:24] <elmo40> perfect humidity
[03:55:28] <elmo40> all that jazz
[03:55:38] <ds3> you can get smaller then 0.0001 on some materials w/o temp control env.
[03:55:42] <IG-garage> well, geeks will do it all until its hardest end, even laking personal social life
[03:55:51] <elmo40> I can change the hole diameter of a piece of Aluminum by 0.0001 just by holding it in my hand!
[03:56:12] <elmo40> what is this, social life, you speak of? ;)
[03:56:21] <IG-garage> i never really thought of it.
[03:56:55] <IG-garage> when you not simply choose some celebrity and follow her nude appearances
[03:58:21] <IG-garage> I can change the hole diameter of a piece of Aluminum by 0.0001 just by holding it in my hand! <-- IG-garage: i never really thought of it.
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[03:58:32] <IG-garage> hello, nicko
[03:59:30] <nicko> ello
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[04:00:14] <elmo40> IG-garage: did you get hacked? or type in the wrong room?
[04:01:05] <IG-garage> no, but when we loose our social life, we get closer to what i have just said
[04:02:20] <IG-garage> elmo40: Some people even follow to the appearance of unveiled machinery drawings, some follow to the unveiled program source code.
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[04:19:25] <nicko> ello all
[04:19:39] <nicko> so, anyone want to talk spindle coolant ?
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[06:16:50] <automata> Hi,
[06:17:43] <automata> does anyone have a primer on the RCS_STAT_CHANNEL and how are status messages delivered?
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[06:19:30] <automata> I understand that it is an NML buffer in shared memory (owned/created by emcsvr). But what does this channel hold and how does a simple peek into the channel deliver the message. Further how/when are old messages deleted?
[06:20:14] <automata> Trying to roll my sleeves up and understand what is going on...
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[07:12:13] <nicko> seems like this time of the day there aint many of the folk around who know that stuff
[07:13:05] <nicko> My time off is pretty much the middle of the night or the weekend when it comes to finding everyone online ;)
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[07:25:45] <automata> Well don't hurt to try... will try again on the weekend... I have a long weekend this time around so more time to interact...
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[07:40:15] <nicko> cool
[07:41:03] <nicko> I have saturday - trying to figure out if my less than $20 spindle liquid cooling system is the right idea
[07:42:06] <automata> I am actually trying something more ambitious... trying to write a new GUI client... using wxWidgets and python
[07:42:29] <automata> Hopefully in the process I will learn EMC, python and wxWidgets!!
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[07:42:51] <nicko> real cool
[07:43:22] <nicko> I have lofty plans to do similar if everything works out how my little brain thinks things are is true
[07:43:31] <nicko> what is the new approach ?
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[07:43:45] <nicko> put simply>> why a new gui ?
[07:48:29] <nicko> wxwidgets - having a read... ok, cool! how does one deal with the animated graphics part of it ? is that all software openGL ?
[07:53:34] <nicko> from the wxwidgets site:
[07:53:36] <nicko> "Juergen D. Geltinger
[07:54:53] <nicko> ... no updates on comments since 2005 though
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[08:09:31] <nicko> Planning Algorithms by Steven M. LaValle
[08:09:49] <nicko> free download!
[08:09:49] <nicko> http://planning.cs.uiuc.edu/bookbig.pdf
[08:10:06] <nicko> looks like it wasn't stolen either
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[08:30:24] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[08:33:10] <nicko> evening
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[09:39:16] <automata> afternoon
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[09:40:25] <automata> nicko: The approach is not new.... But a more customized GUI for special purpose machines
[09:41:44] <automata> wxWidgets is a very stable GUI platform with many new GUI widgets being implemented
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[10:07:20] <automata> interesting reading on NML: http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/NMLcpp.html
[10:08:16] <automata> wxWidgets site: latest update wxWidgets 2.9.2 Released
[10:08:17] <automata> 2011-07-05
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[15:34:06] <gene76> Silly Q for the *buntu experts: How can I get a square pixel display out of emc when running on a 1320x768 screen?
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[15:36:21] <JT-Shop> square pixel?
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[15:38:21] <archivist> iirc there is a calibration process, gimp has its own seems to assume system is off
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[16:20:49] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[18:02:38] <isssy> w
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[18:15:11] <syyl> hmm
[18:15:14] <syyl> silence
[18:18:29] <andypugh> silence is Golden. Ah, I broke it.
[18:18:42] <syyl> *runs away*
[18:25:15] * archivist hated the hollies
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[18:46:43] <Jymmm> JT-Shop jthornton Gamepad $9 http://www.frys.com/product/3763636
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[18:49:01] <andypugh> The really cheap ones are not very nice. Non-linear, cross-channel mixing. FIne for games, less so for freehand milling
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[19:04:49] <Jymmm> andypugh: JT write up the usage of THAT SPECIFIC GAMEPAD for use with EMC. At the time it was $20, it's available now for $9.
[19:05:29] <Jymmm> We're not talking freehand milling as much as setup/jogging.
[19:06:14] <JT-Shop> lol
[19:06:45] <JT-Shop> andypugh: it is the same one I use on my plasma for jogging to my start point
[19:07:01] <andypugh> It looks a lot lime mine, too.
[19:07:08] <andypugh> (like)
[19:07:40] <andypugh> Do you have to hold the mode button in for just the right length of time to make it work analog?
[19:07:59] <JT-Shop> no, I never use the mode button
[19:08:18] <JT-Shop> don't even know where it might be...
[19:08:27] * JT-Shop goes to look to see if I have one
[19:09:19] <JT-Shop> yep I have a mode button but don't know what it does
[19:15:58] <andypugh> On mine the joysticks are digital unless I press that button.
[19:16:24] <andypugh> (Actually, it is a bit wierder than that)
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[21:06:09] <syyl> yeah
[21:06:17] <syyl> rotary axis up and running :D
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[22:04:10] <FinboySlick> Need a noob sanity check here: Trying to go 31.25ipm in what i'm pretty sure is nylon using a 1/8" 2flute cutter at 12500rpm. 1/8 deep. Am I setting up for gummy disaster?
[22:04:29] <FinboySlick> It's a very sharp cutter mind you.
[22:09:57] <nicko> ha - no idea
[22:10:17] <nicko> gummy as in too slow = too hot ? = melty melt ?
[22:10:20] <syyl_> should work
[22:10:24] <elmo40> that is slow.
[22:10:36] <syyl_> you got a chipload per tooth of 0,03mm
[22:10:44] <elmo40> nylon is like butter at 12k rpm
[22:10:53] <syyl_> but you could double the feed for sure
[22:11:02] <elmo40> and will kinda melt like it too :P increase the feed
[22:11:05] <syyl_> might give better results
[22:11:15] <elmo40> straight line?
[22:11:28] <FinboySlick> elmo40: Yeah, basically facing.
[22:11:41] <FinboySlick> Attacking from side 1/8 deep.
[22:11:52] <nicko> so you're goign to have a clear side
[22:11:59] <FinboySlick> Yes.
[22:12:38] <nicko> Feed up higher then adjust on the fly to see what happens ... ?
[22:13:00] <FinboySlick> Hehe, this is my first real cut so I didn't want the machine to go faster than I can hit the estop at.
[22:13:12] <syyl_> hmm
[22:13:21] <syyl_> for a first cut i would use another material
[22:13:30] <nicko> well, just play with some junk
[22:13:38] <syyl_> nylon can be a bit...strange...when machining
[22:13:38] <nicko> something easy and cheap
[22:13:44] <FinboySlick> This is junk. my other junk is aluminium scraps.
[22:13:57] <FinboySlick> Which I hear isn't the easiest material either.
[22:14:28] <FinboySlick> Maybe spin slower instead of feeding higher? I can go down to 8000rpm.
[22:14:44] <nicko> is your mill/router set up to handle dust and so on ?
[22:15:00] <syyl_> btw, got the 4th axis running :D
[22:15:02] <syyl_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVzxoxeRrPM
[22:15:12] <syyl_> one hour ago
[22:15:13] <syyl_> :D
[22:15:27] <FinboySlick> syyl_: Wow, that is one smooth running machine.
[22:16:18] <FinboySlick> nicko: It'd probably rather deal with chips than dust, what did you have in mind?
[22:16:33] <nicko> wood
[22:16:59] <syyl_> thanks :)
[22:17:03] <syyl_> try insulation foam
[22:17:10] <syyl_> thats nice for testing
[22:17:11] <FinboySlick> nicko: Not a bad idea.
[22:17:21] <nicko> I'd just go for it anyway - if something goes wrong you'll learn
[22:17:33] <syyl_> you can cut it even at 0 rpm
[22:17:43] <FinboySlick> nicko: I guess you're right, plus I have a spare cutter ;)
[22:17:58] <nicko> heh - syyl>> cool, I can't wait to go forth axis on my machine
[22:18:04] <FinboySlick> I'll put on a face shield so I don't eat it.
[22:18:17] <syyl_> always a good idea :)
[22:18:44] <nicko> finBoy>> have you got a feedoverride outside of Axis ?
[22:19:10] <FinboySlick> nicko: No, all I have so far is Axis.
[22:19:34] <nicko> On the machines at work we have them - I find I never have to use estop... just ramp it down to zero feed...
[22:20:17] <FinboySlick> nicko: This is a fairly small part, at 30ipm, it only takes a second and a half before I'm going the other direction in this operation.
[22:20:29] <nicko> which I onyl do when cutting air above the work when I'm too nervous to make a cut anyway ;) CNC beginner here - keep that in mind when listening to me
[22:20:49] <FinboySlick> nicko: Compared to me, you're still a pro.
[22:21:00] <nicko> oh dear - time for me to shut up
[22:21:21] <FinboySlick> Okay, back in a few minutes, bloody or not ;)
[22:21:40] <nicko> if you break something can you post it on youtube ??
[22:22:27] <elmo40> FinboySlick: you can keep the RPM, just feed faster
[22:22:38] <elmo40> <50ipm may gum up
[22:22:51] <nicko> syyl>> so your rotary axis is that stepper - belt driven ? 1:1 ?
[22:22:54] <elmo40> syyl_: love the machine! made any chess pieces yet? ;)
[22:23:04] <syyl_> naa :D
[22:23:07] <syyl_> nothing yet
[22:23:15] <syyl_> cut only air...
[22:23:54] <nicko> How much cutting reaction force could a set up like that cope with if you were to plunge on Z ?
[22:24:13] <nicko> I guess the idea is to come 'in' on X ?
[22:26:53] <elmo40> or y
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[22:27:17] <elmo40> the flutes will pull the part anyways... so doesn't really matter
[22:27:40] <elmo40> if you made a tailstock for it, then you could push a little harder :)
[22:28:52] <FinboySlick> elmo40: I was a wuss, I went the other route and lowered it down to 8000rpm. Smooth as a baby's bottom.
[22:29:06] <FinboySlick> nice, evenly-sized chips.
[22:29:36] <elmo40> now push the feed :)
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[22:30:45] <FinboySlick> Are there plugins for axis that let you do simple pocket/facing like this? I'm using one of the suggested external generators but I think it'd be pretty cool to just set thing and see the path you're getting right away.
[22:33:42] <andypugh> syyl_: All home made?
[22:33:46] <syyl_> jep
[22:33:54] <syyl_> except the harmonic drive inside
[22:34:04] <nicko> elmo40>>Y would be the same Z ?
[22:34:05] <andypugh> It isn't clear from the video, which part moves?
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[22:34:32] <nicko> X at least you're pushing the work into the bed (the rotary bed)
[22:34:45] <syyl_> from the milling machine itself?
[22:34:53] <syyl_> its a knee milling machine
[22:35:10] <elmo40> nicko: no. X left to right Y front to back. Z up and down...
[22:35:16] <nicko> yes
[22:35:28] <elmo40> then why would y be the same as z?
[22:35:38] <nicko> and the rotary axis as I saw it was aligned along the X axis
[22:35:51] <FinboySlick> syyl_: In http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=W_Y_GWZ9WXI I notice that we seem to have the same vise. Does yours give you trouble when sitting on a flat surface where you have to remove the cross-pin in order to adjust it?
[22:36:07] <elmo40> nicko: yes. making it the A-axis
[22:36:36] <syyl_> its always a bit of fiddling arround to adjust the vise
[22:36:39] <nicko> so 'plunging' on Z or pushing on Y will push the work out the the chuck/vise/workholder
[22:36:48] <syyl_> i have a pin, that can be pulled out complete
[22:36:54] <syyl_> makes it a bit easier
[22:36:55] <nicko> but coming from X will push the work into the rotary bed
[22:37:06] <elmo40> nicko: if you come from the right!
[22:37:13] <FinboySlick> syyl_: Yeah, mine came with both but I though it a bit of a bummer that you can't just use the one that drops free.
[22:37:17] <nicko> = slightly better situation
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[22:37:41] <elmo40> actually... the tool rotates clockwise, if you come from the right on X you will pull the part away from the rotary
[22:37:44] <nicko> if you come from the left, you are probably going to be eating the 4th axis
[22:37:46] <syyl_> the free dropping one is a pain in the *beep*
[22:38:11] <nicko> hmmm,,, true
[22:38:24] <nicko> so come from Y from the 'rear' ?
[22:38:54] <nicko> which is positive ? I can never remember my dang directions
[22:39:47] <nicko> depends on the tooling and the profile of course
[22:40:05] <nicko> say, an involute gear cutter
[22:41:36] <elmo40> hold your left hand out like a gun, then point the middle finger to the Right.
[22:41:54] <elmo40> z, up, x, right, y, forward
[22:42:02] <elmo40> those (typically) are positive directions
[22:42:30] <elmo40> directions of the Tool (in all my cnc machines, anyways)
[22:43:00] <elmo40> even though the table moves, the tool is 'moving' in the +/- direction according to the work piece.
[22:43:03] <elmo40> confused yet? ;)
[22:43:50] <syyl_> hihi
[22:44:43] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-hand_rule
[22:45:20] <nicko> so I think I mean - Y negative
[22:45:58] <nicko> I have learned 4 right hand rules over the last 5 weeks in electrical and magnetic theory
[22:46:09] <nicko> I cant learn anymore for a while
[22:46:42] <Jymmm> On my laser bed, there are alignment rulers (along the left and top edges - much like a framer's square). I'm making a raised cutting table for it which will align to these existing rules, and then adding new rules that will align with the existing ones. What is a good way to mount the new rules to the cutting table so their aligned with the existing ones?
[22:47:48] <nicko> make them *all* with the laser ?
[22:48:08] <Jymmm> LOL, my laser aint got THAT much power =)
[22:48:25] <Tom_itx> Jymmm did you get your laser bed finished?
[22:48:45] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: what ya think we're talkin bout =)
[22:48:57] <Tom_itx> dunno, i just jumped in the middle as usual
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[22:49:01] <Jymmm> ah
[22:49:16] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: To recap... On my laser bed, there are alignment rulers (along the left and top edges - much like a framer's square). I'm making a raised cutting table for it which will align to these existing rules, and then adding new rules that will align with the existing ones. What is a good way to mount the new rules to the cutting table so their aligned with the existing ones?
[22:49:51] <Tom_itx> yeah i read that above
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[22:51:39] <Jymmm> well, that's where I'm at.
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[23:27:57] <PCW> Got 5I25 running with EMC but hard drive died after a power cycle kinda twisted the hard drive PCB and the hard drive came back alive enough to save my work
[23:29:06] <Tom_itx> check for cold solder joints on the large components
[23:30:52] <PCW> Yeah resolder is an option but its probably headed for bit heaven just glad it came back to life long enough to save the files I was working on
[23:31:22] <PCW> many bad words were spoken
[23:31:41] <Tom_itx> usually helps
[23:33:14] <PCW> I though sure I had permanently killed it (it would not spin up or be recognized) though it was stiction so twisted/bumped it fairly severely but does look like bad soldering
[23:34:00] <andypugh> PCW: I have been wondering if the 5i25 "Just Works" or needs tweaking.
[23:34:02] <Tom_itx> i fixed the power plug on one and it turned out to outlive several other drives
[23:34:17] <PCW> Just works now
[23:34:32] <Tom_itx> unless his drive crashed again
[23:34:55] <andypugh> PCW, the 7i33 encoder inputs can be hooked up as GPIO I think? What are the voltage limits?
[23:35:37] <PCW> hm2-pci.c hm2_pci.h, hostmot2.c needed minor changes
[23:35:57] <andypugh> Well, I don't mean gpio, but general input.
[23:37:01] <Tom_itx> do servos typically run cooler than steppers of similar size?
[23:37:12] <PCW> Yes they can be used as GPIO what you have is a 5V CMOS with 1K series resistor and RS-422 receiver so say safe at +-7V or so
[23:37:23] <PCW> I mean input
[23:38:12] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Yes, because steppers run max current stationary, and servos run zero current stationary.
[23:38:22] <Tom_itx> that's kinda what i thought
[23:38:50] <Tom_itx> is there a formula i can calculate the max voltage for bipolar series?
[23:39:00] <Tom_itx> i've seen the bipolar parallel
[23:39:49] <andypugh> It will probably be twice the bipolar parallel
[23:40:29] <andypugh> (1/4 the current, but parallel voltages don't add up like parallel currents do)
[23:40:31] <Tom_itx> the inductance goes from 2.2 to 8.8ÁH depending how they're wired
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