#emc | Logs for 2011-08-10

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[00:03:51] <Danimal_garage|2> i dont understand why uline has to send me so many catalogs
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[00:04:08] <Danimal_garage|2> i get one with every order, on top of getting them in the mail all the time
[00:04:23] <Danimal_garage|2> waste of paper
[00:04:28] <JT-Shop> their just wanting to make sure...
[00:04:59] * JT-Shop relaxes and listens to Bridge of Sighs
[00:05:44] <Danimal_garage|2> i'm going to email them and tell them if i get one more catalog, i'll order elsewhere
[00:06:17] <JT-Shop> heh
[00:06:30] <JT-Shop> you ever tap a #0-80?
[00:06:54] <Danimal_garage|2> yes
[00:06:58] <Danimal_garage|2> i have one somewhere
[00:07:20] <JT-Shop> my smallest adventure was a 2-56
[00:07:51] <Danimal_garage|2> i used to work as a toolmaker for this shop that made automated inspection equipment. They used tons of oddball taps
[00:08:02] <Danimal_garage|2> i have a 1/4-60
[00:09:00] <Danimal_garage|2> ha, i found the 0-80
[00:09:00] <JT-Shop> well time for me to go start the jambalaya if the MIL has not started it already...
[00:09:11] <JT-Shop> tiny little sucker I bet
[00:09:17] <Danimal_garage|2> take it easy!
[00:09:21] <JT-Shop> you too
[00:09:39] <Danimal_garage|2> yes, .06"
[00:09:43] <Danimal_garage|2> major diameter
[00:10:15] <Tom_itx> Danimal_garage|2, they want your business
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[00:11:03] <Danimal_garage|2> they're going to lose it instead
[00:11:25] <Tom_itx> just stoke the fire with em
[00:11:53] <Tom_itx> digikey and mouser take up much more space here but i've got a pretty good pile of uline
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[00:13:37] <Danimal_garage|2> i've only gotten one mouser catalog, that isn't too bad
[00:14:03] <Danimal_garage|2> but i seriously have thrown out at least 10 unline catalogs this year
[00:14:06] <Tom_itx> i've got a couple still in shrinkwrap
[00:14:36] <Tom_itx> maybe they add/remove products alot
[00:14:57] <Tom_itx> i remember when digikey's catalog was ~1" thick
[00:14:58] <Danimal_garage|2> who cares, i've only ordered 2 items from them
[00:15:03] <Tom_itx> heh
[00:15:57] <Danimal_garage|2> i fileld out an online quote form to get some header boards printed for my packaging from this place.... they email me back saying they can't give me a quote because they need to call and i didn't put in a real phone number
[00:16:17] <Danimal_garage|2> i'm like, WTF is the point of filling out an online quote form then?
[00:17:00] <Danimal_garage|2> I'm not going with them just for the fact they wasted my time filling that crap out when they knew perfectly well they needed to call me anyways
[00:17:20] <Danimal_garage|2> then they'll have my number and start cold calling me, screw that
[00:17:22] <Tom_itx> B&H Photo send me one maybe once a year which is bearable
[00:17:31] <Tom_itx> but then they have cool stuff too
[00:17:47] <Tom_itx> they've never called me
[00:18:10] <Danimal_garage|2> i only have a cell phone so it really ticks me off when people cold call me
[00:18:22] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't like that either
[00:18:40] <Tom_itx> i mostly use mine outbound
[00:19:15] <andypugh> I mainly use mine for web and email. I doubt it has seen 3 hours voice traffic in 5 years.
[00:19:23] <Danimal_garage|2> i hate salesmen in general
[00:19:35] <Danimal_garage|2> which is funny because technically i am one
[00:19:45] <Tom_itx> they rate right up there with lawyers and dentists
[00:20:03] <Danimal_garage|2> but i barely answer my emails nevermind call people
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[01:42:35] <Jymmm> How hard is it to weld aluminum?
[01:43:09] <Tom_itx> TIG
[01:43:15] <Tom_itx> pulsed TIG
[01:43:37] <Tom_itx> takes some practice
[01:45:09] <Tom_itx> there are other ways but that's probably the most common
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[01:53:59] <Jymmm> other ways?
[01:54:29] <Tom_itx> i tried MIG but i didn't really have it set up properly
[01:54:36] <Jymmm> can you spot weld aluminum?
[01:54:41] <toastydeath> no
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[01:54:51] <Tom_itx> i doubt it since you need a shield gas
[01:54:53] <Tom_itx> argon
[01:55:03] <toastydeath> aluminum welding is generally done with an ac current on any welder, and you need lots of shielding
[01:55:11] <Jymmm> No, no, those two probe thingys
[01:55:43] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/115-volt-spot-welder-45689.html
[01:55:45] <toastydeath> spot welds on aluminum are usually too fragile; there may be a manufacturing method to do it but i am unaware of it
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[01:56:03] <Tom_itx> it's uncommon if done at all
[01:56:13] <Jymmm> damn
[01:57:38] <Jymmm> Well, you guys suck! lol
[01:57:54] * Tom_itx gives Jymmm a sack of rivets
[01:58:09] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: needs to be flush
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[01:58:35] <Tom_itx> airplane rivets are flush
[01:58:54] <Jymmm> I thought they were just oval heads
[02:00:35] <Tom_itx> http://www.hansonrivet.com/w06.htm
[02:03:11] <Jymmm> so I'd need to taper the holes
[02:03:23] <Tom_itx> if you want them flush
[02:04:50] <Jymmm> I need to make this out of aluminum channel (top view)...
[02:04:55] <Jymmm> +----+----+----+----+
[02:04:55] <Jymmm> | | | | |
[02:04:55] <Jymmm> | | | | | 12"
[02:04:56] <Jymmm> | | | | |
[02:04:58] <Jymmm> +----+----+----+----+
[02:05:00] <Jymmm> |<------ 24" ------>|
[02:05:19] <Tom_itx> is this your honeycomb table?
[02:05:30] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: it might be =)
[02:06:34] <Jymmm> if I can find a way to fasten the pieces together
[02:06:49] <Tom_itx> have someone weld it for you
[02:07:52] <Jymmm> Well, I could use wooden cross pieces, their only to support the HC from drooping
[02:10:23] <Jymmm> I need to find that link for making your own bellows again
[02:11:09] <Jymmm> Maybe I can use a combination of MDF + aluminum channel.
[02:12:07] <Jymmm> oh phuk... MDF doens't like to be edge screwed
[02:12:27] <Tom_itx> epoxy
[02:12:47] <Jymmm> Nah,doesn't work... splits it like a twig
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[02:13:02] <Jymmm> surface wise, you can tap mdf all day long
[02:13:14] <Jymmm> edge wise.. forget it!
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[02:14:22] <Jymmm> But... Maybe I can use angle to fasten on the surface, then tap the aluminum
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[02:15:56] <Tom_itx> http://www.fastenal.com/web/search/products/fasteners/nuts/tee-nuts/_/N-gj4wd3&Nty=0
[02:17:56] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Same face. Need cross dowel nuts... http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/fc/fc91c29a-c17b-4023-be84-58ebcd4015c7_400.jpg
[02:20:20] <Jymmm> how does 80/20 connect together to make a cube frame? Does it need machining, or do they have fasteners?
[02:21:13] <Jymmm> well, this answered my question.... http://www.8020.net/Training-6.asp
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[04:40:32] <IG-garage> doesn't look like really rigid, but again, depends on the purpose.
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[09:13:40] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[13:43:12] <gene76> Mornin guys :)
[13:44:02] <gene76> I just swapped half a gig for 2 gigs of ram in this machine, and pulled the netmos card in favor of the Startech
[13:44:35] <gene76> that card isn't showing in an lspci, whats next
[13:46:31] <jdhNC> are you sure?
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[13:51:29] <gene76> yes, tain't there. I'll scan dmesg again though.
[13:52:50] <gene76> I have this:[ 7.542074] parport_pc 00:0a: reported by Plug and Play ACPI
[13:53:23] <gene76> and this:[ 7.542157] parport0: PC-style at 0x378 (0x778), irq 7, dma 3 [PCSPP,TRISTATE,COMPAT,ECP,DMA]
[13:53:37] <skunkworks> lspci -v?
[13:53:46] <gene76> and this:[ 7.597716] ppdev: user-space parallel port driver
[13:54:11] <gene76> and this:[ 7.692605] lp0: using parport0 (interrupt-driven)
[13:54:29] <gene76> skunkworks: still not there
[13:54:41] <skunkworks> gene76: what did you get for a replacement stepper drive?
[13:55:01] <gene76> and I have this in /lib/modules/2.6.32-122-rtai/kernel/drivers/parport$
[13:55:21] <gene76> parport_ax88796.ko parport_cs.ko parport.ko parport_pc.ko parport_serial.ko
[13:55:29] <gene76> thats all folks!
[13:55:38] * skunkworks has not really had to deal with pci printer ports.. Sorry..
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[13:56:18] <gene76> I bought a 5 pack of M-542's, $51/copy
[13:56:48] <gene76> but they are still on a rowboat from Homng Kong
[13:57:08] <gene76> I can move the cable back to the mobo's port, it all works.
[13:58:35] <gene76> on an old 3 axis xylotex of course.
[13:58:53] <skunkworks> That is the chips on the xylotex?
[14:00:16] <gene76> No, what I am saying is that I can move the parport cable back to the motherboards parport, and the old 3 axis xylotex drives it just fine, I used it yesterdat for several hours
[14:00:44] <gene76> google M-542, should get about 100k hits.
[14:01:15] <gene76> this is a 4.2 amp/ 5o volt driver, one per motor.
[14:01:44] <gene76> running on a 25$ 350 watt 28 volt supply from All Electronics
[14:01:52] <gene76> now
[14:02:17] <gene76> Got funeral to goto, so I'll have to come back later
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[14:31:20] <logger[mah]> mhaberler: Log stored at http://emc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23emc/2011-08-10.html
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[16:04:28] <automata> Hi
[16:05:22] <automata> I have been looking at the shcom.cc and emcrsh.cc files and wanted to suggest some changes
[16:08:27] <automata> In shcom.cc, the process tries to connect to the NML process xemc only. This IMHO creates a problem when trying to re-use shcom for another emcrsh type process
[16:09:45] <automata> The NML process name could be passed as a parameter to the various functions in shcom.cc which connect to the NML buffers.
[16:10:13] <automata> The overhead from this will be minimal as these functions are called only at startup.
[16:10:22] <automata> Any comments?
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[16:57:36] <Connor> Okay, So, I need to cut down some 2 1/2" and 3" flat alum stock.. (before I machine it).. I have a benchtop bandsaw, and I have a Compound miter saw..Which one for the job?
[16:58:23] <Connor> I think this stuff is to thick for the band saw.. I have a metal cutting blade in it.. but, it binds sometimes when I do alum angle even.. and gets the parts very hot..
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[17:09:01] <skunkworks> Connor: you want 3ish teeth in contact with the part normally.
[17:10:40] <Connor> I was just reading some stuff.. looks like I either need to lube my bandsaw blade.. (probably need a new one cause I've been cutting PCB's on it) or, get a high count tooth 10" blade for my Compound miter saw.. again, they say put WD40 or wax on the blade to keep the alumn for sticking and gumming up the teeth.
[17:10:42] <skunkworks> so you probably want a pretty course blade in the bandsaw for 2.5 inch thick material
[17:10:57] <skunkworks> wd40 works well.
[17:11:20] <Connor> 2.5" wide.. it's around 1/4 and 3/8" thick.
[17:11:39] <skunkworks> oh
[17:12:13] <Connor> I DO have a much ticker block I have to cut also.. but, that'll be a tad later.
[17:12:19] <skunkworks> I would sure use the band saw as the miter saw would scare me cutting aluminum
[17:12:26] <skunkworks> but that is just me
[17:12:52] <jdhNC> I've had really good luck cutting aluminum on a miter saw
[17:12:53] <Connor> I hate my bandsaw.. It vibrates like hell... the table is'n very square with the blade..
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[17:13:51] <Connor> one of the bolt holes in the tables stripped out.. and i can't for the life of me figure out why it's vibrating.. the wheel hesitates in one place.. almost like the motor or pully is not concentric with the shaft.
[17:14:24] <jdhNC> buy a new one.
[17:14:31] <jdhNC> c'mon, you know you want to.
[17:14:38] <Connor> It is "new" Barely used the damn thing.
[17:14:48] <jdhNC> take it back
[17:14:56] <Connor> It's a Skill.. I'm wishing I went with Ryobi..
[17:15:16] <jdhNC> what width blade?
[17:15:22] <Connor> Not that new.. New as in not used much, not it it's age.. It's 2 years old.. I've probably used it less than 20 times cutting small stuff.
[17:15:58] <Connor> I don't remember.. 3/8" maybe..
[17:16:17] <Connor> standard for little bench top band saw.
[17:16:26] <jdhNC> 3 wheel?
[17:16:31] <Connor> 2
[17:16:46] <jdhNC> it's better than mine then :)
[17:16:51] <Connor> 1 sec, let me find it..
[17:17:22] <jdhNC> mine won't cut straight in wood
[17:17:31] <Connor> yea, mine either..
[17:18:03] <Connor> http://www.lowes.com/pd_22199-46922-3385-01_0__?productId=1207605&Ntt=bandsaw&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dbandsaw&facetInfo=
[17:18:14] <Connor> only reason I got it over the Ryobi cause it had dual speed.
[17:22:27] <jdhNC> I saw a magazine the other day that had a project where the guy made a table for a portable saw, let him do miter cuts etc.
[17:23:23] <Connor> I think I need to tear into it and check the pulley and clean it up in side and get some new blades.
[17:24:08] <Connor> I hate having to change blades too..
[17:26:08] <jdhNC> how's the conversion going?
[17:27:07] <Connor> I haven't really started yet.. I did the 3-bolt mode a few weeks ago.. and put it back together.. I was waiting for my vise, v-blocks and end mills to arrive.
[17:27:34] <jdhNC> cut anything?
[17:28:15] <Connor> They finally came in, and haven't had time to do much. Plus, even though I had them add a duct to the shop, the humidity makes it almost unbearable to work out in it. Of course, I'm rather sensitive to heat.
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[17:28:28] <Connor> I cut some plastic a few weeks ago.. that was it.
[17:28:33] <Connor> Worked really well.
[17:28:51] <jdhNC> my 'shop' has been 100+ and high humidity
[17:29:00] <Connor> Anything rusting?
[17:29:29] <jdhNC> I left the mill in the paper/grease and sprayed some of the other parts
[17:29:48] <Connor> Fortunately it's not that hight because of the AC.. But, I did have a leak from that April storm we had and got a few splatters of water on my new 4" chuck.
[17:30:35] <Connor> I found it the next day, so it wasn't too bad.. I put the chuck back in it's plastic container after whipping it down with WD40, and put it in the mill cabnit.
[17:30:49] <jdhNC> no A/C in my garage
[17:31:12] <Connor> I have my Speed control box off of the mill right now.. I'm going to place it somewhere else..
[17:31:16] <jdhNC> unless the cat opens the door and forgets to close it.
[17:31:19] <Connor> I don't like it being attached to the head.
[17:31:25] <Connor> chuckle.
[17:32:26] <Connor> I also purchased a 3" boring head.. OMG.. I had no idea how big that thing was..
[17:32:54] <Connor> I DO have a question... Can you put the boring bar in the side and use it for even bigger holes ?
[17:33:18] <Connor> and, what's the best way to get a hole started with one of those guys ?
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[17:34:04] <awallin> boring head is for finishing only, cut open big holes with an endmill and a rotary table
[17:34:29] <Connor> no rotary table.
[17:35:20] <awallin> circle motion on a cnc is no problem, on a manual mill you need sin/cos-interpolation hands :)
[17:35:42] <Connor> yea. Well.. I'll have to manually do it some way..
[17:36:02] <Connor> since it's alumn maybe I can start the hole with a bimetal hole saw.
[17:36:44] <Connor> I'll do it like I do MDF.. drill two holes on the outside edge for the chips...
[17:36:55] <Connor> then use WD40 (which I don't do with MDF.)
[17:37:26] <Connor> then go back and cleanup & enlarge the hole with the boring head.
[17:38:39] <Connor> but, before I do any of that, I need to tram the head to the column and then the column to the table...
[17:38:51] <Connor> then hookup my speed control to the machine again.
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[17:46:44] <andypugh> anonimasu: Was it you wanting a UPA2 boring head the other day?
[17:47:09] <automata> I have a small router setup with a Mesa 7i43
[17:47:39] <automata> I Have hooked a hardware estop to it.
[17:47:56] <andypugh> OK
[17:48:00] <andypugh> Good plan
[17:48:24] <automata> But I also wanted to get the machine ON bit to turn on automaticaly on release of ESTOP
[17:48:37] <automata> is that possible?
[17:49:02] <jdhNC> you should have a separate start button
[17:49:03] <automata> using just the hal
[17:49:04] <jdhNC> IMO
[17:50:07] <automata> I want to use an external start button to start the executoin of the loaded NC file
[17:50:11] <andypugh> All things are possible in HAL, but I am not sure that it's a great idea.
[17:50:39] <andypugh> I can see advantages in hardware e-stop triggering software e-stop, and then both needing to be reset.
[17:51:21] <automata> this machine is really small very low pwer on the stepper motors driving it.
[17:51:42] <jdhNC> lack of e-stop != 'on' IMO
[17:52:58] <automata> I can see why you would say that and I agree if this was a powerful machine.
[17:53:31] <IchGuckLive> automata: on the D25 input ?
[17:53:32] <anonimasu> andypugh: yes I were, tho looking at the upa2 it looks like it cant fit a iso40 shank(from wohlhaupter)
[17:53:33] <automata> But the purpose of the external estop is to turn off power to the motors.
[17:53:48] <jdhNC> that's not an estop, that's an 'off' switch.
[17:53:56] <andypugh> If you insist, though, I would look at using an edge detector in HAL which can "see" the external e-stop circuit (this might need a separate relay, depending on the control voltages.) I would probably use a physical relay linked into the e-stop chain that grounds a 7i43 pin to 7i43 0V. Use that as an input, linked to an edge detector then use the output of that to toggle the UI pin.
[17:54:20] <andypugh> That way it is only changes in state of the external e-stop which enable the software.
[17:54:42] <andypugh> You probably already have a watchdog in the 7i43 which kills the power of that dies?
[17:54:50] <andypugh> (if)
[17:55:07] <skunkworks> my estop drops out the contactors for the 2 hydraulic pumps, spindle drive, servo drives and misc motors.
[17:55:11] <automata> yes I do have the watchdog enabled
[17:55:22] <andypugh> anonimasu: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wohlhaupter-Plan-Ausdrehkopf-UPA2-MK2-x-m10-/140589274648
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[17:55:51] <andypugh> skunkworks: Yes, but your machine can eat small cars.
[17:55:54] <anonimasu> is the shank swappable on thoose?
[17:55:56] <anonimasu> thoose?
[17:56:11] <andypugh> No, UPA2 and UPA1 all have fixed MT2 shanks
[17:56:17] <skunkworks> andypugh: :)
[17:56:24] <anonimasu> I see, too bad then it's a no go :/
[17:56:36] <automata> andypugh: why woudl you recommend an edge detector?
[17:56:42] <anonimasu> 147 for a upa3 :S
[17:56:57] <andypugh> automata: Because it actuates on a change of state.
[17:57:16] <andypugh> anonimasu: Yes, that's actually a good price. But rather an old UPA3
[17:58:17] <anonimasu> that's not very extreme.
[17:58:17] <automata> does the machine power on need to activate only on change of state?
[17:58:17] <andypugh> Why not use the MT2 UPA2 in an ISO40 to MT2 adaptor? There is a drawbolt hole to pull it up with
[17:58:47] <andypugh> I think MT2 fits completely inside ISO40.
[17:58:59] <automata> Also what UI pin would I need to toggle for the machine power ON
[17:59:03] <andypugh> (And, I have checked that MT4 can be machined to R8 :-)
[17:59:10] <anonimasu> hehe
[17:59:16] <andypugh> automata: I am looking :-)
[17:59:17] <anonimasu> maybe it'll fit
[17:59:39] <automata> Thanks andypugh;
[17:59:56] <anonimasu> im not rushing to get one in a second, I have a iso40 boring head, but it's kindof very old and weighs like 4kg's.. :)
[18:00:13] <anonimasu> like 90mm outside
[18:01:31] <automata> my first guess would be to check iocontrol
[18:01:38] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[18:01:47] <andypugh> automata: Probably iocontrol.0.user-enable-in but I am checking
[18:01:50] <automata> as the estop in and out is there
[18:03:24] <automata> there is a user-enable-out in iocontrol
[18:03:47] <automata> and a user-request-enable
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[18:05:41] <andypugh> halcmd setp iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in 1 clears e-stop but doesn't turn on emc
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[18:06:10] <andypugh> That is normally looped in HAL, your mechanical e-stop goes in that loop
[18:06:23] <Danimal_garage> hi
[18:06:36] <automata> I have enabled the estop loop in HAL
[18:07:05] <andypugh> If you look in the HAL it is probably a very short loop with no hardware in it?
[18:07:41] <andypugh> You might need to get creative with edges detectors, one-shots and OR functions.
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[18:08:58] <automata> I used the Estop-latch module to have double enable in H/W and S/W
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[18:09:31] <automata> Which is why I feel that the machine power ON button is over-kill for the small setup.
[18:09:41] <Tom_itx> so the 'soft' estop is a separate logic path than that of an external estop button?
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[18:10:28] <automata> Yes I have it wired up that way: I can send you the file once I get to my workshop tomorrow morning.
[18:10:41] <Tom_itx> i'd like to look at it
[18:10:53] <Tom_itx> why would you want them separate?
[18:11:06] <automata> It is from a standard config file: Let me look it up.
[18:11:25] <gene76> Gene again, it just occured to me that this card may not be fully seated, BBL.
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[18:11:40] <automata> Actually I was trying out different configurations and wanted to see what felt right
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[18:13:06] <automata> ############################### Other ##########################################
[18:13:06] <automata> #Connect Estop and ChargePump
[18:13:06] <automata> loadrt estop_latch
[18:13:06] <automata> addf estop-latch.0 base-thread
[18:13:06] <automata> # External Estop Signal handled by THC
[18:13:08] <automata> net ExtEStop parport.0.pin-10-in => estop-latch.0.fault-in
[18:13:10] <automata> net EstopLatchWatchDog estop-latch.0.watchdog => parport.0.pin-17-out parport.1.pin-17-out
[18:13:12] <automata> net EstopRequestEnable iocontrol.0.user-request-enable => estop-latch.0.reset
[18:13:14] <automata> net EstopEnableOut iocontrol.0.user-enable-out => estop-latch.0.ok-in
[18:13:16] <automata> net EstopOKOut estop-latch.0.ok-out => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[18:13:18] <automata> This is from the stepper-gantry configuration
[18:13:28] <Tom_itx> you shouldn't paste in channel really
[18:14:02] <automata> Sorry. New to IRC not sure how to send across text info. Any pointers on that
[18:14:16] <Tom_itx> pastebin
[18:14:18] <Tom_itx> etc
[18:14:29] <Tom_itx> although i haven't been able to use pastebin lately
[18:14:30] <automata> ok will keep that in mind
[18:14:54] <automata> pastebin I feel lacks permanence of IRC chat logs
[18:16:06] <automata> I have been following up on some IRC conversations about EMC setups and the juicy parts (config files) is always missing from the conversations (lost in pastebin).
[18:17:34] <Tom_itx> as long as you don't get kicked, banned or klined for it.. have at it :D
[18:18:13] <Tom_itx> channel policies vary
[18:18:35] <automata> andy: I also wanted to suggest some changes to shcom.cc to make it configurable so it can link up to any NML process rather than hard0-coded to linkup to xemc.
[18:18:56] <automata> Tom_itx: I'll keep that in mind.
[18:19:20] <automata> andy: Who should be the right person to submit a patch?
[18:20:28] <automata> andypugh: author Name on the file is Eric Johnson
[18:22:31] <andypugh> If it's a bug, with a fix, try going through the sourceforge bug-tracker.
[18:23:14] <andypugh> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=6744
[18:23:29] <andypugh> Or alternatively, perhaps it should be a feature request.
[18:23:51] <automata> I have the feature implemented.
[18:23:55] <andypugh> However, "How to submit patches" is a question I am more likely to ask than answer.
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[18:28:34] <automata> I believe that shcom.cc and emcrsh.cc trace their roots to xemc and that is why those processes got hard-coded inthere.
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[18:30:08] <automata> Also emcrsh complains that it cannot process the -i command line argument when passing an ini file to it.
[18:30:22] <automata> that is a bug.
[18:30:40] <automata> and it can be squashed easily
[18:30:59] <andypugh> You could try discussing it on the developers mailing list, or on the #emc-devel channel.
[18:31:31] <automata> I will try the mailing list now.
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[18:33:37] <automata> I am trying to get remote access to the emcStatusBuffer, emcCmdBuffer and emcErrorBuffer
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[18:36:21] <automata> That is where these feature requests are comming in
[18:36:55] <andypugh> Does anyone have any tricks I might not have thought of for holding toothed-belt pulleys (with flanges) in the lathe?
[18:37:13] <andypugh> Or am I just going to make yet another bored-and-split bush?
[18:37:35] <anonimasu> andypugh: that seems like the most reasonable way to do it
[18:37:43] <Danimal_garage> bolt it to a faceplate and indicate it in?
[18:37:44] <Loetmichel> andypugh: short pins of round steel in the teeth
[18:38:05] <Loetmichel> diameter that the pin connects on the toothground AND the walls
[18:38:08] <andypugh> 12 teeth, 3 jaws. Pins might work.
[18:38:19] <Danimal_garage> you didn't specify what part you wanted to machine
[18:38:38] <andypugh> I think that diameter might not reach above the flanges.
[18:38:58] <andypugh> I need to bore the bore. (to a taper)
[18:39:13] <Danimal_garage> oh
[18:39:38] <Danimal_garage> 4 jaw chuck?
[18:40:02] <andypugh> The problem is the flanges.
[18:40:08] <Danimal_garage> ah
[18:40:49] <andypugh> (Which might well fall off anyway, I am rather stretching the bore limits)
[18:41:20] <Danimal_garage> buy a bigger lathe?
[18:41:21] <Loetmichel> ouch
[18:41:21] <Danimal_garage> :)
[18:41:48] <andypugh> No, the lathe is big enough, but I am trying to mount a 12-tooth T5 pulley on a 12mm shaft.
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[18:42:05] <Loetmichel> then you wat definetly a massive aluminium plate boret to the OD auf the teeth and tan slitted
[18:42:07] <Loetmichel> than
[18:42:34] <andypugh> To avoid crushing it. Good point.
[18:42:35] <Loetmichel> so that the jaws cand form the rest ring of the pulley to a triangle
[18:42:51] <Loetmichel> exactly
[18:42:57] <andypugh> I have doen this before, exactly the same. I wonder if I kept the jig? (I wonder what the jig _was_)
[18:43:24] <gene76> Back, and I was right. It shows up at 0xd000, and fixing the line in .hal allows it to at least move the machine.
[18:44:00] <Danimal_garage> ha
[18:44:08] <Danimal_garage> i can never find my jigs
[18:44:54] <automata> So is there a connection of the machine power on/off User Interface pin in the HAL
[18:45:12] <automata> I am trying to locate it.
[18:45:16] <canid> so i see people discussing general machining topics in here. i've wondered before, but are there any currently active servers/chanels for machinists in general?
[18:45:40] <canid> i've seen a few mentioned on the web, or for CNC in general, but none of them seem to be around anymore.
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[18:47:46] <andypugh> automata: You need to load halui
[18:47:54] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui_halui.html
[18:48:10] <andypugh> halui.machine.on - pin for requesting machine on
[18:49:08] <andypugh> I checked, it works.
[18:50:27] <automata> Ok. Now do I need to load halui in the hal (like loadrt hostmot2)
[18:50:58] <automata> or can I just reference the halui.machine.on pin in the hal.
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[18:51:17] <automata> I will try this tomorrow morning on the machine.
[18:51:41] <gene76> Ok, I just ran the logo with no signs of an upset tummy, so I think we can mark this card as usable for emc stepper controls.
[18:52:06] <gene76> If someone want to take notes, here is the dmesg data
[18:52:28] <Danimal_garage> i'm trying to figure out how i can squeeze in another bench grinder
[18:52:38] <Danimal_garage> or pedistal grindder, rather
[18:53:54] <gene76> [ 7.440825] PCI parallel port detected: 1409:7268, I/O at 0xd000(0xd400), IRQ 11
[18:54:22] <gene76> [ 7.440852] parport1: PC-style at 0xd000 (0xd400), irq 11, using FIFO [PCSPP,TRISTATE,COMPAT,ECP]
[18:56:19] <gene76> also, fromj an lspci -v:
[18:56:24] <gene76> 00:0a.0 Parallel controller: Timedia Technology Co Ltd SUN1888 (Dual IEEE1284 parallel port) (rev 01) (prog-if 02)
[18:56:55] <gene76> Subsystem: Timedia Technology Co Ltd Device 0103
[18:57:20] <gene76> I/O ports at d000 [size=8]
[18:58:24] <gene76> It also reports a 2nd port ar 0xd400, but only one port is actually bonded out on thgis card.
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[19:00:55] <gene76> The box, labeled STarTech.com, calls it a PC/1P and claims EPP, ECP, SPP, and BPP support
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[19:01:37] <gene76> Sorry it took me so long to get off my duff and do this. :(
[19:02:39] <anonimasu> mhm
[19:02:47] <anonimasu> does the mesa 7i66 work with emc2?
[19:03:25] <PCW> It wll
[19:04:00] <anonimasu> it seems like a nice option for a panel of buttons and stuff :)
[19:04:39] <PCW> 7I73 is probably better for buttons
[19:04:53] <anonimasu> tho, that's not on the page yet
[19:04:54] <anonimasu> :)
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[19:05:45] <anonimasu> the serial boards are _cheap_ looking at how much work they save with wiring everything around
[19:06:16] <anonimasu> well, for now, im gonna get things working before I go there :)
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[19:06:31] <anonimasu> im still waiting for the second motor connector so I can wire up the second servo
[19:07:02] <gene76> But even for servo's, the lags can kill you, its NOT real time.
[19:07:52] <anonimasu> huh?
[19:09:14] <anonimasu> 5khz of servo update rate should be enough... :)
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[19:13:20] <andypugh> canid:http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/ or http://www.practicalmachinist.com/
[19:13:34] <Danimal_garage> practicalmachinist is decent
[19:13:44] <Danimal_garage> i figured he was looking for an irc channel
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[19:14:20] <canid> I am
[19:14:54] <canid> practical machinist is where i found a few of the referenced to chanels that aren't currently maintained
[19:15:10] <canid> seems to be a pretty good site though
[19:15:21] <canid> thank you for the recomendations
[19:15:24] <andypugh> Ah, OK then.
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[19:17:16] <Danimal_garage> you can ask your questions here, there's plenty of good machinists on here
[19:17:28] <canid> if it's acceptable to bring non EMC questions here, i'll do that
[19:17:44] <Danimal_garage> you're not going to find too many machinists on irc channels, most of them are too old for that crap
[19:17:51] <canid> lol
[19:18:13] <andypugh> Or too young to know what IRC is...
[19:18:14] <Danimal_garage> yea, nobody cares if you ask machining questions
[19:18:54] <anonimasu> that's interesting between the emc talk ;)
[19:19:00] <Danimal_garage> andypugh: i've never worked with a machinist younger than myself so i doubt that
[19:19:13] <Danimal_garage> and i'm 30
[19:19:24] <PCW> gene76: our serial I/O cards and drives are real time (designed that way from the start)
[19:19:25] <Danimal_garage> operators are a different story
[19:19:35] <canid> i'm 27, and i'm only starting to learn within the last year or two
[19:20:05] <Danimal_garage> i've been working as a machinist since 16
[19:20:17] <Danimal_garage> i've never done anything else
[19:20:31] <Danimal_garage> other than manufacturing engineering recently
[19:21:23] <alex4nder> and male model for a couple years, to pay the bills.
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[19:25:11] <canid> heh. maybe i should do that
[19:25:23] <canid> should make me at least a couple nickels
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[19:32:55] <JTEKTOOL> question on tool changes this is my firs part with a tool change im familiar with mdi on my other machines but not sure if changing tool in mdi mode means i can change tool offset with "touch off" command in axis
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[19:33:28] <JTEKTOOL> ie mdi mode t1 m6
[19:33:34] <JTEKTOOL> t2 m6
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[19:34:33] <JTEKTOOL> anybody?
[19:37:59] <cradek> yes you can change the tool length with touch off, selecting "tool table" in the touch off dialog
[19:38:53] <cradek> then next time you load the tool (and its offset) it will be the right length
[19:39:11] <cradek> don't forget your g43 (like mdi t1 m6 g43) to load the offset.
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[19:39:47] <JTEKTOOL> whats g43
[19:39:48] <Danimal_garage> you don't need h# after the g43?
[19:40:10] <cradek> JTEKTOOL: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/gcode.html
[19:40:22] <cradek> Danimal_garage: no, it defaults to the current tool if H is not specified
[19:40:29] <Danimal_garage> ah ok
[19:40:44] <Danimal_garage> mastercam just puts the h# in by default
[19:41:06] <JTEKTOOL> yah using mastercam
[19:41:15] <cradek> Danimal_garage: some controls might require it, not sure
[19:41:30] <Danimal_garage> i'm using the emc2 post
[19:41:36] <JTEKTOOL> me too
[19:41:42] <JTEKTOOL> have to delete g28s
[19:41:48] <JTEKTOOL> otherwise good tho
[19:41:52] <Danimal_garage> you shouldnt have to, i dont
[19:41:57] <cradek> how does it try to use g28?
[19:42:17] <Danimal_garage> don't know, never cared to look since it works
[19:42:32] <JTEKTOOL> i dont know wont even load it says error at line xxx where g28 code is
[19:42:34] <Danimal_garage> i hate programing so i do as little as possible
[19:43:18] <JTEKTOOL> what mastercam you using i got X4
[19:43:25] <Danimal_garage> it says g91g28z0.m9 all in one line
[19:43:29] <Danimal_garage> x3
[19:43:36] <Danimal_garage> works fine
[19:43:44] <JTEKTOOL> oh i would love that post i got x3
[19:43:46] <Danimal_garage> i think it just returns z to home
[19:43:48] <JTEKTOOL> too
[19:44:05] <JTEKTOOL> yah so i been deleting and putting g53 g0 zo
[19:44:18] <JTEKTOOL> whoops G53 G0 Z0
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[19:44:49] <cradek> g91 g28 z0 and g53 g0 z0 probably have the same effect (aside from whether they leave it in g91 mode afterward)
[19:44:57] <Danimal_garage> i just used the post on linuxcnc and used the post utility in mastercam to convert it for use with x3
[19:45:05] <JTEKTOOL> aha
[19:45:34] <JTEKTOOL> my x3 i like better they really changed thing in X4
[19:45:45] <JTEKTOOL> but just cuz im used to x3
[19:46:05] <automata> Just a thought: I know that EMC can be used to control a PUMA robot.
[19:46:17] <automata> But can it do true dynamic control??
[19:46:25] <JTEKTOOL> yah the have kinematics files for puma on git
[19:47:07] <automata> kinematic control for articulated mechanisms have inherent disadvantages of vibration on the joints for fast moves
[19:47:15] <JTEKTOOL> and hexapod
[19:47:38] <automata> Which is why most serial link robots use dynamic compensation
[19:48:00] <automata> Is it possible to do computed torque control with EMC?
[19:48:07] <JTEKTOOL> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb
[19:48:56] <automata> I looked at those modules but on a first glance it does not seem to be doing any dynamic control
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[19:50:05] <automata> For dynamic control you would require each joint to know the position of the other joints and then calculate the corillis forces, inertia compensations and gravity compensation
[19:50:54] <automata> All the three terms (inertia, corilis and gravity) for any one axis require knowledge of the current position of all the other axes
[19:51:36] <anonimasu> automata: well, the traj is opensource too, and you can add all that if you like :)
[19:51:50] <automata> On a whim, it seems doable with EMC2 with some customized dynamics modeling
[19:52:35] <automata> I have done this for a puma 560 a long time ago with an STG card and copley amps.
[19:53:49] <automata> I am just getting involved with emc and am still learning the ropes. But given enough time with this software, I am thinking it is possible.
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[19:54:05] <automata> Now to get a used PUMA 560 ;-)
[19:55:49] <automata> <anonimasu>: This problem is not about the trajectory generator. It is the motion PID for the joints
[19:56:36] <automata> The motion PID for various axes will require compensation terms based on the position and velocity of the remaining axes.
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[20:02:41] <canid> i'm trying to find ways to justify to myself a cnc mini-mill in my little knife shop
[20:03:09] <canid> i keep checking with myself and so far it's not flying. i think that means i should do it anyway.
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[20:05:27] <archivist> canid, depends if you do one offs /multiple of a type or if the one offs are so complicated that cnc takes out the drudgery
[20:06:03] <canid> nearly everything i do so far is one-off
[20:06:34] <archivist> for me, its one offs but cnc remove my mistakes and the drudgery of gear cutting
[20:06:59] <canid> but some elements, like profiles, bolsters, butt caps could certainly share proccesses in common
[20:07:39] <anonimasu> it seems to me it's more fun watching the cnc crank out near perfect parts then try to do so on your own by trying to interpolate stuff by hand :p
[20:08:01] <archivist> you can write scalable g code too which means unique one offs too
[20:08:03] <canid> actually, butt caps, bolsters and guards would benefit immensely from milling
[20:09:11] <canid> i keep doing hand forged copper ones, which have a lot of style, but really it's just because it saves so much of the grinding and filing
[20:09:14] <canid> lol
[20:09:44] <canid> otherwise i'd be playing with more aluminum and brass
[20:12:06] <archivist> you can mill some dies for forging
[20:12:20] <andypugh> Mill masters for investment casting.
[20:12:50] <andypugh> Engrave names and logos
[20:13:33] <andypugh> engrave wiggly lines, flood with braze, polish off and pretend it is mythical elvish metal or something.
[20:13:45] <canid> haha
[20:16:40] <canid> actually, i would love to be able to mill in dovetailed slots and set in other metals. it's actually been done by hand graving in the past with gold, etc.
[20:17:30] <Loetmichel> andypugh: actually, the flodding with braze is a great idea for engraving ;-)
[20:17:38] <Loetmichel> *Noted*
[20:22:51] <archivist> hand engraving can be fun
[20:23:01] <canid> i've wanted to try it with low temp solder and handle materials
[20:23:02] <anonimasu> canid: well, you can do that
[20:23:03] <canid> like wood
[20:23:10] <anonimasu> nothing keeps you from doing undercuts
[20:23:29] <skunkworks> automata: Kinematics with emc has been a work in progress. There is actually a branch called 'jointaxis' or some such thing that is separating areas where the joint axis separation has been muddied. but no - there is no "dynamic compensation" yet that I know of.
[20:23:52] <Connor> Recommendations RPM and Feed Rates on cutting sheet brass out? Mind you, this is a CNC router, no a mill, and RPM is high 15k to 30k
[20:24:02] <andypugh> It could be added as another set of matrices in genserkins...
[20:24:53] <automata> skunkworks: That would be one area I want to look into from an academic perspective... and see if we can get that going...
[20:25:40] <anonimasu> Connor: i'd try at lowest rpm, and start from 0.06mm/tooth(I find that works well for most stuff)
[20:25:43] <andypugh> I am hopeful that we might see jointsaxes3 merged with 2.6. But it might be a forlorn hope.
[20:26:02] <automata> In a couple of months (more like towards the end of the year), I will have some time to implement a robot controller for a used robot...
[20:26:08] <Connor> 0.06mm/tooth ?
[20:26:18] <anonimasu> of the cutter
[20:26:24] <skunkworks> I have a puma 560... :) another project..
[20:26:31] <Connor> 2 flute. 1/8" bit
[20:26:51] <automata> I love the puma 560... very sturdy "Academic use" manipulator...
[20:27:28] <anonimasu> http://www.southbaymachine.com/setups/cuttingspeeds.htm
[20:27:32] <anonimasu> to be honest it seems low
[20:28:00] <automata> I had retro-fitted two of those... gutted the controllers and replaced it with state of art Pentium MMX mother boards running at 500 MHz on QNX with STG cards
[20:28:11] <automata> That was sooooo much fun to do...
[20:28:33] <anonimasu> Connor: like rpm*fpt*number_of_teeths
[20:28:35] <automata> But that is a lifetime ago...
[20:28:59] <Connor> They're saying 6400 RPM for 1/8 bit for brass..
[20:29:12] <anonimasu> like 69ipm
[20:29:19] <Connor> which is 1/3rd of what I can run at.
[20:29:29] <Connor> Min I can do is around 15k.
[20:29:35] <anonimasu> at 15k/rpm
[20:29:37] <Connor> now feed is a different story.
[20:29:50] <Connor> I can do 200IPM or better now..
[20:29:56] <anonimasu> you need something like 69ipm
[20:30:01] <anonimasu> for a feed of 0.06mm/tooth
[20:30:13] <andypugh> automata: The nice thing with EMC2 is that you can control the end-effector position and angles in cartesian space, rather than individual joint angles.
[20:30:14] <anonimasu> err not feed, for a cut
[20:31:51] <automata> Yes that is the idea with computed torque control where the PID loops are actually run in the cartesian space and torques are computed for the each motor
[20:31:57] <anonimasu> the cutters that manufacturer sells must be snake oil..
[20:32:26] <anonimasu> Connor: tho, be careful about depth of cut
[20:32:37] <Connor> This is then stuff.
[20:32:39] <Connor> thin
[20:32:44] <anonimasu> Connor: you wont cut the full depth with that cutter and 0.06 per tooth
[20:33:06] <Connor> I think it's around 1/16"
[20:33:22] <anonimasu> 1.5mm.. probably you want 2 passes for that.
[20:33:23] <automata> As I think about it... it seems more and more doable.. alebit with a lot of custom modules and code... but first to learn more about EMC
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[20:34:38] <anonimasu> writing your own comp's are easy enough :)
[20:36:17] <anonimasu> Connor: tho alot of manfacturers reocmmend 0.02mm/tooth.
[20:38:11] <anonimasu> Connor: machinist's toolbox suggests me 126.37795ipm at 24662rpm
[20:38:55] <anonimasu> and max stepdown 0.027" of stepdown
[20:38:59] <anonimasu> for a full width cut
[20:39:01] <anonimasu> (slotting)
[20:39:20] <Connor> Can that be adjusted for around 15k?
[20:39:30] <anonimasu> one second
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[20:41:11] <anonimasu> 70 ipm at 15000rpm
[20:41:39] <anonimasu> but do multiple passes with a 0.027" stepdown
[20:41:44] <anonimasu> or you will probably break the cutter.
[20:41:49] <Connor> okay. Making Doggy Name Tags for people
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[20:42:08] <Connor> Yea, I'll do shallow cuts.
[20:43:04] <anonimasu> for the finish pass max radial should be 0.027" of stepover also..
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[20:43:04] <andypugh> Connor: How many?
[20:43:09] <Connor> andypugh: Just a few for now.. 3 or 4.
[20:43:38] <andypugh> OK. If it was hundreds I would suggest making a punch tool.
[20:43:46] <Connor> I can order blanks.. But, I wanted to try some out of Brass first..
[20:44:07] <Connor> the blanks wear after time, and loose colorer, and the tops get worn down..
[20:44:47] <Connor> I figure cut them out, then make a pocket jig, use a screw through the hole for the ring to hold in place.
[20:44:48] <andypugh> The blanks are not solid brass then?
[20:44:53] <Connor> and use a V-bit to engrave.
[20:44:59] <Connor> No.
[20:45:07] <Connor> They're alum or something..
[20:45:38] <andypugh> I don't know why folk are scared of brass, it isn't _that_ expensive and you can make a lot of the cost back on tool-life and machining time.
[20:45:42] <Connor> I think they're coated or something.
[20:46:22] <andypugh> It's got good yield strength, good corrosion resistance and it looks nice.
[20:47:12] <andypugh> The pannier rack on my bike is stainless tubes and brass castings. If I polished it, it would look very steampunk.
[20:48:11] <IG-garage> wow
[20:48:32] <archivist> easy ish to hand engrave too
[20:48:33] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=Clock+dial+Norfolk+R.+Hackett+Haringworth
[20:48:56] <Connor> http://www.shopwiki.com/Bone-Shaped-Dog-Tag
[20:49:28] <Connor> U can get solid brass ones.. but, the ones my dogs currently have aren't.
[20:50:06] <andypugh> Is that $9 _each_?
[20:50:18] <Connor> I was just looking for examples.
[20:50:32] <Connor> http://www.beacongraphics.com/engraving/pendants.html
[20:51:00] <andypugh> What I was doing last week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNN08gpuUfw
[20:51:11] <andypugh> I borrowed a friends bike, he had a camera on it.
[20:51:13] <Connor> they have them gold and nickel plated. 10 pack @ 13.60, or 12.20 for the nickle.
[20:52:05] * archivist looks for the falling off bit
[20:52:20] <andypugh> The fun part is that it is an offroad bike, on knobbly tyres. I really shouldn't be able to overtake R1s (see 8:30 onwards after I am used to the bike)
[20:52:40] <Connor> Okay, yea, the ones I have now are Anodized Aluminum.
[20:53:14] <Connor> http://www.inlandproducts.com/pet_tag_blanks.htm
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[20:56:18] <archivist> lapped on the first lap!
[20:56:49] <andypugh> He might have set off after me...
[20:57:09] <andypugh> I do get lapped by a guy on an unfaired bike, bit it takes him a few laps.
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[20:57:52] <andypugh> archivist: Just for you, a mate of mine, same day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln7WNAuegtE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
[21:02:13] <Danimal_garage> sometimes it's nice having a 2 hour cycle time
[21:02:31] <Danimal_garage> i can watch divorce court without interruption
[21:02:36] <Danimal_garage> :)
[21:03:11] <Danimal_garage> if i time it right, maybe even Jerry Springer too
[21:04:51] <IG-garage> oh. divorce court and Jerry Springer... They produce the Kind. Improve our Love.
[21:06:01] <IG-garage> Danimal_garage: what, is it the exercising device you're talking about?
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[23:05:37] <andypugh> Anybody heard of "SpeedmaxPC"? My sister is about to run it to "sort out" her computer, the paranoid in me suspects that it is malware that has caused the problems it purports to fix.
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[23:16:29] <Tom_itx> http://speedmaxpc.com/
[23:16:42] <Tom_itx> no idea
[23:17:05] <andypugh> Yes, the almost total lack of any search results _not_ from their own site rang alarm bells.
[23:17:12] <Tom_itx> yup
[23:17:16] <Tom_itx> i felt the same way
[23:17:50] <andypugh> And they are right with "SpeedMaxPc now offers unbelievable tactics"
[23:29:04] <mikegg> PCW: is there a more recent firmware for use with the 7i39?
[23:29:25] <mikegg> I started to download the ISE, but that looks like it's going to be over my head
[23:29:44] <andypugh> JT-Shop: You recall those toolpaths you did for me? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical_mill_lathe_project_log/109301-harrison_universal_miller_conversion-2.html
[23:34:08] <PCW> For what FPGA card?
[23:34:27] <PCW> (mikegg)
[23:34:43] <mikegg> the 7i43
[23:34:49] <mikegg> 200k
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[23:41:15] <tom3p> wow, the spring cover is great but the transmission casting is super
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[23:51:18] <Tom_itx> PCW, did you happen to catch my suggestion the other day?
[23:53:28] <PCW> Yeah
[23:54:03] <Tom_itx> wasn't sure, was down ~8hrs with no power
[23:54:55] <PCW> Did you see the PDFs?
[23:55:10] <Tom_itx> which?
[23:55:13] <Tom_itx> i have the 7i43 47 ones
[23:55:46] <PCW> OK wasn't sure you were there when i posted the link
[23:55:55] <Tom_itx> i may have missed that
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[23:59:08] <Tom_L> did you update the pdf and i missed it?