#emc | Logs for 2011-08-05

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[00:21:37] <Jymmm> L84Supper: say that again?
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[00:59:26] <geo01005> is there any technical reason why stepconfig will only allow the first parallel port to be "out" ?
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[01:10:07] <L84Supper> Jymmm: just wonder how vintage they might be. I always get asked about systems for classrooms to just run a browser and email
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[01:19:53] <Jymmm> L84Supper: P3
[01:20:29] <Jymmm> but I'd suspect if you wen to your local eRecycler, you could pick up a few for skools
[01:24:43] <L84Supper> I still have a few Athlon systems from that era gathering dust, running fedora 5 or 6
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[01:31:12] <Jymmm> Just setup a boot server and you can give them all diskless workstations.
[01:31:32] <Jymmm> OH noes I gots a virus!!! Reboot, virus gone. NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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[05:43:14] <TeslaTony> I don't know if this is the right place, but can I wire stepper controllers directly to a parallel port, or do I need a motion controller in between?
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[05:47:13] <archivist> TeslaTony, yes, emc is the motion controller, what kind of stepper controllers?
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[05:48:30] <TeslaTony> archivist: That's the next step.
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[05:53:42] <El_Matarife> Generally you need a break out board
[05:54:08] <El_Matarife> After all, you want stuff like an e-stop and a heartbeat right?
[05:54:14] <archivist> eg I have 5 step dir 4A drivers on my par port
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[05:55:23] <archivist> usually the breakout has opto isolation, some drivers also have opto isolation
[05:55:47] <archivist> mine is in the stepper driver
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[05:56:21] <TeslaTony> ok
[05:57:10] <TeslaTony> Yeah. Making sure my motherboard doesn't get some tasty amperage would be nice
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[05:59:03] <archivist> one of my cnc's I just level shift with a uln2002 to drive the stepper drivers
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[10:31:39] <IG-garage> oh, drilling, third day already. drilling bits are better for drilling, than crayons are. Although latter are cheaper. though tough stuff as well.
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[13:44:06] <JT-Shop> sure is quiet in here... the shop I mean
[13:44:59] <Jymmm> Shhhhh paint is drying, err I mean sleeping.
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[13:54:13] <JT-Shop> lol
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[14:15:01] <IG-garage> uh, three days of work at S.C.A.R.A.-type drilling machine
[14:16:04] * Tom_itx tosses a full brick of Black Cats in JT-Shop's shop
[14:16:10] <IG-garage> this CNC machine at this plan is pretty sophisticated so they ask me to learn Unigraphics or Top Solid.
[14:16:31] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ferrel
[14:16:34] <Jymmm> (sp)
[14:16:49] <IG-garage> Millturn WFL M35
[14:16:57] <IG-garage> what do you think of it?
[14:17:49] <IG-garage> carousel with more than 100 slots, separate bin for trash
[14:18:16] <IG-garage> this one: http://www.nmteng.com/specs/1.JPG
[14:26:01] <IG-garage> JT-Shop: have accidentally found this: http://www.xs650chopper.com/2011/06/custom-trikes-are-choppers-too/
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[14:36:26] <anonimasu> hello
[14:38:21] <Tom_itx> good morning anonimasu
[14:39:45] <anonimasu> I just finished work
[14:40:29] <Tom_itx> headin out to clean up branches after the storm
[14:40:29] <anonimasu> lathe's on hold until the taperlock's gets here
[14:40:36] <anonimasu> I have a spindle mounted now
[14:40:48] <anonimasu> but I decided to take stuff apart to clean and paint the crosslide
[14:41:23] <anonimasu> and possibly spindle housing
[14:42:10] <anonimasu> probably I should take the spindle bearings out and clean them, and re-grease them
[14:44:14] <anonimasu> and probably sometime next week i'll have the gears so i can mount motors :)
[14:50:35] * JT-Shop laughs at Tom_itx trying to find a crack to toss them in
[14:54:21] <JT-Shop> I can't look now my connection is very bad and the IRC barely works
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[15:39:40] <pcw_home> JT-Shop THC questiion: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,27/id,3980/limit,6/limitstart,48/lang,english/
[15:39:42] <pcw_home> Also I think I see a small bug in thc.comp:
[15:39:43] <pcw_home> last_z_in = z_pos_in; (Z velocity) looks should be done always, not conditioned by whether the torch is on
[15:39:45] <pcw_home> (I may misunderstand but it looks it would be invalid (and big = Z_pos) the first cycle after the torch turns off)
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[16:35:55] <MOGLI> helloo JT-Shop u there??i have few question regarding THC
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[16:36:43] <tom3p> stumbled upon: MIT has some vids on how to use bridgeport mill http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/127-machine-shop-4
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[17:53:30] <JT-Shop> I am now
[18:04:04] <Danimal_garage> hi John
[18:18:25] <jdhNC> Hi
[18:23:03] <alex4nder> hey
[18:23:20] <Tom_itx> ho
[18:29:10] <archivist> its off to work we go
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[18:33:06] <fragalot> i'm thinking of a plumbing tool I lost today but I can't for the life of me remeber the name
[18:33:19] <fragalot> it was an adjustable wrench that gripped with 3 teethed rollers
[18:33:39] <fragalot> used to make the thread on pipes a bit rougher so teflon tape gripped to it better
[18:34:17] <archivist> pipe wrench, there are many forms
[18:34:54] <fragalot> http://static.gedore.net/module/objproduct_data/uploaddata/normal/4500220.jpg handle & adjustabillity was like this
[18:35:03] <fragalot> but the jaw bit was made up of 3 teethed rollers
[18:35:17] <jdhNC> like knurling wheels?
[18:35:27] <fragalot> trying to find a new one online somewhere because the only local shop I can find chargest nearly 200 euro for a new one
[18:35:37] <fragalot> jdhNC: exactly like that
[18:36:35] <jdhNC> "pipe thread destroying wrench"
[18:36:46] <archivist> I have one with wheels but I thought they were only old, not still obtainable
[18:37:07] <fragalot> jdhNC: fair description, however useless it is :P
[18:37:12] <fragalot> archivist: :'(
[18:37:21] <fragalot> they're godlike though
[18:37:26] <archivist> fragalot, I collect adjustables
[18:37:55] <fragalot> I lose them. apparently.
[18:38:05] <jdhNC> did you use this tool often?
[18:38:07] <fragalot> well either I lost it or it got stolen. either way it's gone.
[18:38:19] <archivist> my wheeled one is mia at the moment
[18:38:20] <fragalot> jdhNC: enough to make me want to replace it, yes.
[18:38:23] <jdhNC> if it got stolen, I bet they are going to be disappointed.
[18:39:03] <fragalot> jdhNC: it's quite neat to be able to reliably connect pipes together without ever having leaks or messy teflon buildup
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[18:40:12] <jdhNC> I'm a big fan of no leaks... I have a 5000psi gas fill panel in my garage
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[18:40:50] <fragalot> haha
[18:41:03] <jdhNC> I replace pipe fittings with tube whenever I can
[18:41:41] <fragalot> can't get around ye olde threaded components really though
[18:42:25] <jdhNC> I had a hard time getting stainless parts to line up well. Getting one more half turn is often impossible
[18:42:28] <fragalot> most fittings are done with those crimping dealios, still things like valves, manometers and other components are all still threaded.
[18:42:53] <fragalot> jdhNC: Aye, though when I use this tool even if you have 3 or so turns left, it's still good.
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[18:46:06] <fragalot> damnit surely they must be available SOMEWERE
[18:46:25] <fragalot> finding something when you have nfc what the name is is hard
[18:46:25] <fragalot> >.<
[18:48:17] <fragalot> JT-Shop: ping? :P oh god of knowledge. I seek thee.
[18:48:17] <archivist> stilson being the common name for a pipe wrench
[18:48:27] <jdhNC> that's its onlyh purpose?
[18:49:31] <fragalot> jdhNC: yes. it's only purpose is to slightly knurl the threads of pipe fittings.
[18:49:37] <fragalot> nothing more, nothing less.
[18:50:06] <fragalot> I'd easilly give up to 80 euro for a new one.. but the 200 the local shop asks is a bit steep.
[18:50:14] <fragalot> hell i'll pprobably even go for 100 if I have to
[18:51:02] <anonimasu> fragalot: ebay?
[18:51:25] <fragalot> anonimasu: if I knew the NAME of the tool.... :P
[18:51:31] <anonimasu> pipe thread knurler?
[18:51:34] <fragalot> trying variations of knurling wrench / pliers...
[18:52:28] <fragalot> anonimasu: trying to google it but nothign appears to yield the tool i'm looking for
[18:53:47] <jdhNC> call the local shop and ask what they call it.
[18:54:25] <fragalot> dutch.. fairly useless language to google things for to buy 'm online
[18:55:22] <fragalot> Ooo
[18:55:34] <fragalot> "hand knurler" gets me the same functionality. that 'l work
[18:58:12] <fragalot> now to find one that goes from 3/8ths to 2 inches
[18:58:13] <fragalot> :P
[18:59:36] <fragalot> Actually. I'll just buy 3 knurling wheels and a cheap pipe wrench >.>
[19:07:03] <jdhNC> or a wide jaw vice-grip
[19:07:12] <jdhNC> or just beat the threads with a hammer
[19:08:52] <fragalot> I don't want to damage the threads so they jam...
[19:09:00] <fragalot> just a little knurl to grab the ptfe tape
[19:09:23] <jdhNC> I've never had a problem with that, but I pretty much only do 1/4" brass and SS
[19:09:49] <syyl_> when i was young (yesterday), we used a hacksaw blade to rough the thread up a bit
[19:09:53] <syyl_> so it grabs the ptfe band
[19:10:11] <fragalot> syyl_: that takes a while to do though :/
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[19:10:29] <fragalot> with a knurling wrench (I have decided that this should be the name.) it takes like 2 seconds
[19:10:35] <syyl_> just scrape it along the thread
[19:10:39] <fragalot> and you don't end up accidentally slicing your hand up
[19:10:40] <syyl_> takes a few seconds :)
[19:10:52] <archivist> put the tape on the right way it never slips then!
[19:10:58] <syyl_> that helps you to stay awake ;)
[19:11:35] <fragalot> archivist: I do. it still creeps up a little bit.. I also end up using less tape after knurling it
[19:11:40] <fragalot> syyl_: hehe
[19:12:13] <fragalot> archivist: try both methods & see which you'd use if you had to do hundreds of 'm :P
[19:12:32] <fragalot> (where compounds & glue aren't allowed)
[19:12:53] <archivist> fragalot, Ive never seen a thread roughing for tape tool over here
[19:13:37] <fragalot> :'( if only I could find a pic
[19:13:49] <fragalot> I could slap it together in paint but i'm not sure if it's worth it
[19:15:39] <syyl_> tried the loctite sealing string?
[19:16:26] <syyl_> easier to use than tape
[19:16:37] <syyl_> and you can readjust a pipe fitting without getting a leak
[19:17:28] <syyl_> but at least, i know the knurling-pliers
[19:17:53] <syyl_> but a special name for it..dont know
[19:18:11] <fragalot> I did it anyway
[19:18:12] <fragalot> http://ompldr.org/vOXJ1OA/wrench.jpg
[19:18:27] <fragalot> syyl_: I have, works great for smaller diameters
[19:18:51] <fragalot> but for bigger ones it's a) a lot cheaper b) faster to use ptfe tape and those knurling pliers
[19:18:52] <syyl_> i think the german company rothenberger has that wrench availible
[19:19:20] * fragalot looks
[19:19:57] <syyl_> i have seen it somewhere, thats sure
[19:20:00] <syyl_> but where...
[19:20:19] <fragalot> I know where i've seen it >.>
[19:20:28] <fragalot> in 2 places.
[19:20:33] <syyl_> me too
[19:20:38] <fragalot> firstly, in my toolbox last week.. secondly in the shop. lol
[19:20:40] <syyl_> in a advertisement
[19:20:52] <syyl_> and in the shop of our service mechanics at work
[19:20:55] <fragalot> Also can't find it in rothenberger
[19:21:02] <syyl_> damn
[19:23:36] <fragalot> damnit why did I have to lose it
[19:23:36] <fragalot> ':(
[19:23:36] <syyl_> always remember to clear the milling machines table from chips before doing work with the boring head...
[19:23:57] <syyl_> or the long boring-stringie-chips will throw the chips aroud everywhere ;D
[19:24:04] <fragalot> lol
[19:24:30] <fragalot> I saw a fun one flying out of an alu profile after I blew out the chips from threading a hole in the end
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[19:24:47] <fragalot> ~20cm long spring was sent flying across the workshop :P
[19:25:16] <archivist> tis funny when the bunche gets out the back when boring on the lathe and the jaws add impetus to the swarf velocity
[19:26:47] <syyl_> chips are a neverending source of fun ;)
[19:26:50] <JT-Shop> fragalot: well I'm here anyway
[19:27:24] <fragalot> JT-Shop: http://ompldr.org/vOXJ1OA/wrench.jpg <= *ANY* idea what a wrench like that would be called?
[19:27:29] <fragalot> (please don't say monstrosity)
[19:28:10] <archivist> I was producing long curlies one day and a pair of us managed to make one about 12 feet long
[19:28:18] <JT-Shop> I see my internet is about as fast as a frozen snail still
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[19:31:45] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: looking at it now
[19:33:41] * fragalot takes JT-Shop's lack of a reply as a no :<
[19:33:48] <fragalot> archivist: Shiny :D
[19:36:36] * fragalot decides to ask on yahoo answers because he's that desperate
[19:38:05] <Jymmm> fragalot: Dude, nobody is THAT desperate, go murder someone instead
[19:38:27] <fragalot> lol
[19:38:33] <fragalot> bet you couldn't answer it either
[19:38:42] <Jymmm> whats the q?
[19:42:45] <syyl_> *boring*
[19:43:04] <syyl_> boring can be boring :D
[19:43:26] <Jymmm> fragalot: KNURLING TOOL
[19:43:44] <Jymmm> http://www.accu-trak.com/knurls_stock_with_images.html#
[19:44:16] <fragalot> Jymmm: those all require a lathe don't they?
[19:44:53] <fragalot> I know if I just get the wheels I could mod some pliers to do the same thing but ... why do that if I could just find the thing that's built to do it in the first place
[19:46:34] <jdhNC> cheaper
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[19:49:21] <fragalot> jdhNC: atm I can't seem to find knurling wheels for under 30 euro >.> ebay's useless on my end... damn those localized searches
[19:52:39] <PCW> JT-Shop did you see my note about possible bug in thc comp?
[19:52:51] <fragalot> and when I do find dome the shipping cost is about 8x the wheel's price
[19:52:52] <fragalot> >.>
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[19:59:26] <Jymmm> New tool supplier option??? http://www.zorotools.com/g/CNC%20Bar%20Puller%20Knurling%20Tool%20and%20Wheels/00062246/
[20:00:08] <fragalot> lol it won't let me select coarse and straight at the same time
[20:00:46] <JT-Shop> pcw I think your correct, but I'm not understanding why it works for me :/
[20:00:51] <fragalot> still - straight & medium puts me at atleast 15 usd each, and i'll need 3 + a wrench
[20:01:11] <Jymmm> fragalot: Do you need the tool or the wheels?
[20:01:32] <fragalot> Jymmm: preferably something that can do what the tool I sketched up can.
[20:01:52] <fragalot> eg. slightly knurl the threads on the end of a pipe to allow ptfe tape to grip better
[20:01:57] <Jymmm> Oh fuck me... whay didn't you say so, I found that long ago
[20:02:00] <fragalot> sizes 3/8th to 2 inches
[20:02:02] <fragalot> Jymmm: O.O
[20:03:47] <fragalot> Any recollection of where or how you found it?
[20:06:46] * JT-Shop sees that the internet is back up to a snails pace well maybe a centipede pace, quite an improvement from today
[20:06:53] <fragalot> found some hand knurlers by eagle rock but they're ridiculously expensive.
[20:07:09] <fragalot> JT-Shop: I thought centipedes could move rather quickly?
[20:10:46] * fragalot thinks Jymmm is pulling his leg :<
[20:13:46] <JT-Shop> internet is slow for me...
[20:14:27] <JT-Shop> I've never seen anything with 3 rollers before
[20:14:45] <JT-Shop> pcw yes just trying to figure it out now
[20:15:16] <Loetmichel> aehm
[20:15:29] <Loetmichel> knurling tools are easyly selfmade....
[20:15:32] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[20:15:41] <fragalot> JT-Shop: am I seriuosly the only one that's seen / owned one of these then >.<
[20:15:42] <JT-Shop> I think last_z_in = z_pos_in; should be down one line below the }
[20:15:58] <fragalot> Loetmichel: Yeah but the wheels are nearly as expensive as the tool once was.
[20:16:07] <fragalot> and i'd ned 3 wheels,...
[20:16:14] <Loetmichel> just a bit of muld steel for the pilers and some hardenable steel for the wheels
[20:16:23] <Loetmichel> mild
[20:16:44] <syyl> [2215:39] <fragalot> JT-Shop: am I seriuosly the only one that's seen / owned one of these then >.< <--- naaa :D
[20:16:52] <syyl> i saw it in real live, too :D
[20:16:58] <fragalot> Ah )
[20:16:58] <Loetmichel> fragalot: even the wheels can be selfmade
[20:17:22] <fragalot> Loetmichel: sadly I reckon if I have to make the wheels myself too it's cheaper to just buy 'm...
[20:17:35] <syyl> we could also smelt our own steel from ore ;)
[20:17:42] <fragalot> minecraft!
[20:17:47] <syyl> yeah :D
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[20:18:43] <Loetmichel> fragalot: that is possible
[20:18:49] <fragalot> tbf i'd be happy with any 3 wheel knurler... don't really care if they're aligned or in poor condition :/
[20:19:39] <fragalot> Loetmichel: I found the actual pliers in a local shop, however thye charge nerly 200 euro... i've been looking online and I can't find the wheels i'd need for under 16usd each, plus a ton of shipping because i'm in the middle of nowhere (aka europe)
[20:20:16] <syyl> and torhenberges has one!
[20:20:18] <syyl> found it
[20:20:18] <fragalot> trying to find something thawould let medo a coarse straight knurl without the aid of a lathe between 2/8th and 2 inches in size
[20:20:22] <syyl> tada
[20:20:23] <fragalot> syyl: LINK ME
[20:20:53] <fragalot> because you prolly spelled that name wrong as google finds 0 results :P
[20:21:04] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/rothenberger.jpg
[20:21:22] <fragalot> That's the one I had! :D
[20:21:29] <syyl> hr
[20:22:03] <syyl> i knew it...
[20:22:03] <syyl> :D
[20:22:21] <Loetmichel> fragalot: ebay
[20:22:49] <fragalot> syyl: now to actually find out if they still carry it.
[20:23:03] <syyl> call em and ask for the number?
[20:23:39] <syyl> or ask mighty google
[20:23:40] <syyl> http://www.google.de/search?q=rothenberger+gewinde-aufrauger%C3%A4t&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&client=firefox-a#q=rothenberger+gewinde-aufrauger%C3%A4t&hl=de&client=firefox-a&hs=AYm&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&prmd=ivns&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=NlE8TurSCIGf-waruK3DAg&ved=0CE0QrQQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=7cf5b2637c513694&biw=1920&bih=929
[20:23:42] <syyl> :D
[20:23:43] <Loetmichel> syyl: lustiges teil. und das taugt?
[20:23:48] <Loetmichel> oh.
[20:24:54] <syyl> maybe
[20:24:57] <fragalot> still half the price they charge here for it :P
[20:25:04] <syyl> our service technicans use it...
[20:25:17] <fragalot> Aye - it's the same one I used to have, it's well worth the money if you do that sort of thing a lot
[20:25:38] <fragalot> syyl: they would murder you if you hid it from their sight for a week
[20:25:38] <fragalot> xD
[20:25:48] <syyl> hrhr
[20:25:53] <syyl> that could happen
[20:25:57] <PCW> "I think last_z_in = z_pos_in; should be down one line below the }"
[20:25:58] <PCW> Yeah deltas (dp/dt in this case) should always be calculated (so you dont get big ones)
[20:26:17] <Jymmm> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/tooling-parts-accessories-sale-wanted/wanted-scissor-knurling-tool-218690/
[20:26:29] <syyl> maybe i could corrupt em with a lot of beer...
[20:26:36] <fragalot> Jymmm: syyl already saved the day
[20:27:20] * syyl leans back and looks self satisfied
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[20:41:17] <anonimasu> tomorrow, vfd trial :)
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[20:46:59] <nicko> today: VFD trial
[20:47:27] <nicko> Siemens one arrived in the mail yesterday with a nice big hole in the side
[20:47:51] <nicko> cosmetic damage only - but we'll see if its at least going today
[20:48:57] <nicko> if you dropped a VFD and it 'worked' would you be comfortable with it ? Could a shock cause some damage that would affect its life ?
[20:49:05] <nicko> intuition says 'yes!'
[20:52:01] <anonimasu> my intuition says no
[20:52:02] <anonimasu> :)
[20:52:36] <nicko> you think that electronics once working are likely to keep doing so ?
[20:52:40] <anonimasu> yes
[20:52:49] <Loetmichel> nicko: complete unit fpr measuring or just the "tube"?
[20:52:57] <nicko> hmmm, it makes sense *also*
[20:53:14] <anonimasu> but if it's new and you can send it back or mess with the post office for that, do it
[20:53:15] <Loetmichel> the vfd-tube itself should be faily shockproof if not shattered
[20:53:16] <nicko> loetmicheal>> what a what the ?
[20:53:45] <anonimasu> Loetmichel: variable frequency drive we are talking
[20:53:49] <Loetmichel> but the electronics can be damaged in the long term
[20:53:51] <anonimasu> not about nixie tubes :)
[20:53:56] <nicko> I can send it back but it'll be weeks away ... and the courier will probably bash the new one
[20:54:08] <Loetmichel> ah, sorry, i was thinking Vacuum flouescence display
[20:54:19] <syyl> vfd with nixie tube would be awesome
[20:54:21] <Loetmichel> like in old video recorders
[20:54:35] <anonimasu> i'd say that you should call them up talk to them about it and see what the manufacturer says
[20:55:07] <anonimasu> and then have them fix stuff with the shipping company,
[20:55:28] <Loetmichel> a variable frequency drive COULD have cracks in the PCB after dropping and/or pulled wires from the big capacitors
[20:55:30] <anonimasu> one tip is to say that you need it for running your machines, and you cant send it off for a few weeks to wait for a replacement
[20:55:49] <anonimasu> if they offer to send you one
[20:56:52] <nicko> it was sent to someone from the supplier who then sent it to me
[20:57:00] <nicko> the second courier broke it
[20:57:11] <nicko> so its between me and the second supplier
[20:57:18] <nicko> who is now a kind of friend
[20:57:33] <Loetmichel> nicko: in the original package?
[20:57:44] <nicko> http://www.automation.siemens.com/mcms/standard-drives/en/low-voltage-inverter/micromaster-4/Pages/Default.aspx
[20:57:53] <Loetmichel> is the unit broken or just the package bent/nicked?
[20:57:54] <nicko> yes - with another box around it
[20:58:23] <Loetmichel> usually the manufacturers make packaging which can stand the post offices
[20:58:31] <Loetmichel> (most of the time)
[20:59:07] <nicko> something pointy has made a 3" round hole right through two layers of thick cardboard and scraped its way across the face of the unit, so its only cosmetic damage to the eye ...
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[20:59:24] <nicko> to the couriers eye that is
[20:59:48] <Loetmichel> i had a incident though, whre UPS has achived to deliver two of our military matrix printers in a good packaging... both broken internally.
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[21:00:02] <Loetmichel> (and the pronters are tested to 30G!
[21:00:03] <Loetmichel> )
[21:00:06] <Loetmichel> printers
[21:00:11] <nicko> it looks like the force met with a almost flat surface - so it might just be some bent scratcvhed plastic
[21:00:41] <nicko> if what ever it was that went through it was lower by 100mm it would be a different story
[21:01:00] <Loetmichel> hmm. so get the secon courier to pay for a new one
[21:01:33] <nicko> small print says you're not allowed to send item worth more than $250
[21:01:41] <nicko> it all goes back to my friend
[21:01:56] <nicko> he has offered to supply a new one at his cost
[21:01:56] <Loetmichel> shit happens
[21:02:19] <nicko> but I'm just trying to seeif its really necessary
[21:02:31] <Loetmichel> he should at least ask the courier to pay the 250$
[21:02:39] <nicko> YUP
[21:02:41] <Loetmichel> if not more.
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[21:02:53] <nicko> and the cost of the shipping
[21:03:09] <nicko> what riles me is the way they just give it to you...
[21:03:42] <nicko> it was delivered without me there - person who accepted isn't the type to check things like that
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[21:03:55] <nicko> I wouldn't have accepted it
[21:04:05] <nicko> "take it away and bring me a new one"
[21:05:01] <nicko> ah well - I'll power it today on a cold concrete floor
[21:05:03] <davidf> Hi
[21:05:28] <nicko> its not a candidate for experimentation in my nice warm room upstairs
[21:05:35] <nicko> >>Hello David
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[21:06:05] <davidf> Anyone have a suggestion for size of steppers to use on a Central Machinery 12 x 36 lathe (Harbor Freight, etc) ?
[21:06:19] <davidf> Hi.
[21:07:08] <nicko> not me - I always wanted a torque wrench or two though
[21:07:19] <nicko> could find out that way
[21:07:22] <anonimasu> davidf: the biggest you can reasonably afford
[21:07:35] <davidf> Maybe 470 oz in for x and I've seen 1600 oxz in for Z. That seems a bit larger than necessary, but I'm not familiar with the lathe...
[21:08:11] <anonimasu> i'd say that you should probably have the same kind of motors for both axes if you hvae the same screws
[21:08:29] <anonimasu> because if you feed with a 45 deg tool, you will have the same force acting on both axes through the screws
[21:08:41] <nicko> the cost of setting it up minimally then upgrading it will be more than the cost of over-speccing them in the first place
[21:08:50] <davidf> I want to use a dual shaft motor direct drive on x so I can still have a handle on the back end, so I didn't want to go too huge...
[21:09:28] <anonimasu> also, bigger motors leads to more torque and faster rapids
[21:09:34] <anonimasu> and in general a more stable machine.
[21:10:12] <davidf> I know microkinetics uses 470 and 1620 x and z...
[21:10:17] <nicko> I've heard it lots "its all about acceleration"
[21:10:23] <davidf> for their commercial kit.
[21:10:28] <anonimasu> well, f=ma
[21:10:46] <davidf> all true...
[21:10:48] <anonimasu> you can under spec your motors to the limit, and take it back on gearing
[21:10:57] <anonimasu> but that dosent work so extremely well in practice
[21:10:57] <nicko> I heard this other one a = f/m
[21:11:04] <anonimasu> same deal :)
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[21:11:18] <nicko> deal is the same ?
[21:11:35] <anonimasu> f=ma => a=f/m
[21:12:01] <anonimasu> it's just rewiting the same thing
[21:12:06] <nicko> tell that to HAL !
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[21:12:24] <nicko> I know, sorry I'm being too dry
[21:12:25] <anonimasu> it gets complex thinking about screws and stuff, but as big as can reasonably fit and you can afford
[21:13:01] <nicko> http://www.engr.sjsu.edu/bjfurman/courses/ME106/ME106pdf/inertiaformulas.pdf
[21:13:03] <anonimasu> or do a crapload of math to figure what you need out and do *2 ;)
[21:13:28] <davidf> I've done two conversions so far, but smaller ones. A 7x12 lathe and a Taig mill, both with smaller nema 23's
[21:13:40] * anonimasu solves it by head
[21:14:01] <anonimasu> the last question actually :p
[21:14:09] <syyl> "take a big motor, then double its size"
[21:14:29] <anonimasu> noo, haha take what you think you need and double it
[21:14:56] <nicko> is that BIG rms or BIG peak ?
[21:15:09] <anonimasu> or simply check on forums what people are using successfully
[21:15:30] <nicko> then get them to bag on about crap and not answer the question ;)
[21:16:22] <davidf> Well, I'm inclined to just trust that microkinetic's kit is adequate since they seem to have been selling them for some time. 1620 oz in seems kind of overkill to me though, just going on instinct...
[21:16:42] <anonimasu> i dont get why they have different motors on both axes
[21:17:12] <anonimasu> if you use a rougher you'll have the same force roughly in both directions, along with the torque of the spindle acting on your x axis
[21:17:30] <davidf> well, I did that on my layhe too. The reason being that the x axis screw is much smaller, and needs less force
[21:17:45] <anonimasu> given the same gearing ofcourse and the same screws.
[21:18:05] <davidf> And, why add more weight on the cross slide than necessary... f=ma, right?
[21:19:03] <anonimasu> yeah, but if you think that far you better think about the torque that the spindle will generate
[21:19:30] <JT-Shop> pcw "deltas (dp/dt in this case) should always be calculated (so you dont get big ones)" what do you mean by dp/dt ?
[21:19:50] <anonimasu> derivatives
[21:19:57] <anonimasu> delta posiion / delta time
[21:20:06] <anonimasu> ie, pos difference / time
[21:20:16] <davidf> ie, velocity.
[21:20:21] <anonimasu> yep
[21:20:50] <davidf> I'd prolly say that as dx/dt but whatever.
[21:21:34] <anonimasu> math damaged..
[21:21:52] <anonimasu> :)
[21:22:19] <davidf> I don't see the need to worry about putting huge cutting forces against the work piece anyway. This thing isn't going to be making train wheels.
[21:23:30] <davidf> My x motor is about half of the z on my little lathe and I never have problems cutting any angles or contours. I don't push the speeds or feeds to the limits though.
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[21:23:43] <jdhNC> how little lateh?
[21:23:54] <davidf> 7 x 12 desk top
[21:23:59] <davidf> little.
[21:24:33] <jdhNC> I have a 7x and a 9x, haven't done either of them yet
[21:24:46] * jdhNC looks around for spare time.
[21:24:59] <davidf> I found a 1600 oz inch nema 34 on ebay for 78.00 that seems real cheap to me. It's chinee
[21:26:51] <davidf> jdhNC, I did the x, z, and also put a geared stepper on the spindle, with a rotary encoder on the back end of the shaft. It does a great job of threading. I was really happy with the way it worked out.
[21:27:49] <jdhNC> how fast can you turn the spindle stepper?
[21:27:58] <jdhNC> or just the spindle actually
[21:28:39] <davidf> with the dumpster grade puter as the limiting factor, about 1000 RPM or a bit less
[21:28:48] <jdhNC> a 7x with a stepper spindle might make a nifty 4th axis
[21:29:57] <davidf> yes, it does. I also use the stepper as an indexer when I cut flutes in the reamer tools I manufacture.
[21:30:42] <anonimasu> davidf: what kind of material do you make them in?
[21:30:52] <davidf> I mount a small tool post grinder on the CS, and rotate the spindle 180 deg. to grinfd a flat on opposite sides. Works great.
[21:31:36] <anonimasu> I need to make some keyway broaches soon :/
[21:32:08] <davidf> I make diamond abrasive tools for glass bead makers to clean their beads with. It's a really niche market, but enough for a one-guy co.
[21:32:51] <davidf> I cut the steel blanks and have a pro diamond coating shop do the nickel plating/diamond
[21:33:13] <anonimasu> im thinking of making them out of hardox and then heat them up and quench them to make them damn hard
[21:33:37] <anonimasu> and them grind them
[21:33:59] <Loetmichel> davidf: is that expensive?
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[21:34:58] <davidf> is what expensive?
[21:35:04] <davidf> the coating?
[21:35:30] <Loetmichel> i could use some "dremel-diamond-disc" sized wheels for cutting Tungsten carbide engraving tools out of broken milling bits
[21:35:53] <Loetmichel> i use the dremel discs at the moment but they are a little rough
[21:36:17] <Loetmichel> so i would like to have a set of finer diamond dust on it
[21:36:28] <Loetmichel> s/of/with
[21:36:37] <Loetmichel> s/rough/coarse
[21:36:52] <Loetmichel> yes, the coating
[21:37:49] <davidf> If you supplied the blanks, that type of thing would prob be around 10 to 20 bucks done by a US company. There are a couple that will do a few tools, but some want 100 piece min order.
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[21:39:09] <Loetmichel> 10 to 20 bucks per piece?
[21:39:26] <davidf> You can choose your grit size, from microns to rocks. Use natural diamond though. The cheapos are industrial and that breaks. Fine for grinding wheels, but for single layer tools like that you want the natural. It will last way longer.
[21:39:38] <davidf> yes, per each.
[21:39:44] <davidf> ouch huh?
[21:40:00] <Loetmichel> ouch indeed ;-)
[21:41:24] <davidf> my tools retail at $34.95 each. :) You get what you pay for. They are good for 3000 to 3500 parts. so it's about a penny a bead.
[21:42:16] <davidf> For small orders you're paying for the setup time and overhead.
[21:42:30] <Loetmichel> hmm, for 20 bucks i can buy about 5 to 10 engraving bits over here
[21:43:04] <Loetmichel> so that would be a LOT bits to carve out of scrap to be cost effective ;-)
[21:43:13] <Loetmichel> i am talking about this:
[21:43:24] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8961
[21:43:28] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8958
[21:43:33] <davidf> You can make your own burrs and diamond wheels with epoxy and diamond dust. Mix and coat the blank, then true it up on a lathe.
[21:44:13] <Loetmichel> mybe i will
[21:44:37] <Loetmichel> or look on ebay for some finer grit cutting wheels.
[21:45:17] <davidf> You can do as well or better with my suggestion, or with a standard off the shelf resin-based diamond cup or wheel for that.
[21:45:38] <davidf> I'd go with a 275-325 mesh grit for that.
[21:46:49] <Loetmichel> i'll keep that in mind. thanks
[21:47:14] <davidf> Look for resin wheels, not the nickel plated kind. Then you can dress them if needed, and you have a deep layer of useable diamond to go through, instead of just one.
[21:47:51] <Loetmichel> for now the biots are good enough with the dremel discs.
[21:48:00] <Loetmichel> ground freehand
[21:49:02] <Loetmichel> but i think of making a grinding jig fpr my CNC to make some other special forms like miniature dovetail cutters and so on.
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[21:49:20] <davidf> For what you're doing, a small diamond cup-type whel on an arbor, mounted in a lathe chuck, and the tool mounted on the tool post holder will give you real nice results. That's how I sharpen my lathe tools etc.
[21:49:21] <Loetmichel> and there a rigid and fine disc would be fine
[21:49:36] <davidf> yes.
[21:49:43] <davidf> better.
[21:50:06] <Loetmichel> davidf: i grind them like in the photo, no jig or something
[21:50:53] <Loetmichel> (ok, sometimes with some water nearby 'cause of the not so nice feeling when the metal exeeds 60c ;-)
[21:51:05] <davidf> OK but you have great control of angle etc. with the tool mounted securely.
[21:51:22] <Loetmichel> i know
[21:51:31] <davidf> I've heard that the dust from carbide is very bad to breathe.
[21:51:59] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/pce/Stichelschleifen.avi
[21:52:02] <Loetmichel> maybe
[21:52:05] <davidf> I'd use a HEPA vac or water flush to contain it.
[21:52:21] <Loetmichel> but i have worked 3 years fopr a modelplane company
[21:52:31] <davidf> Oh, well.
[21:52:40] <Loetmichel> every second evening black sneeze from the carbon
[21:52:49] <Loetmichel> and i am a heavy smoker
[21:53:01] <Loetmichel> so if THAT doesent kill me: why bother?
[21:53:03] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[21:53:07] <davidf> I'm talking carbide, not carbon.
[21:53:30] <Loetmichel> i meant the model company.
[21:53:39] <Loetmichel> milling carbon fibre sheets
[21:53:47] <davidf> The smoking is not a good thing. :)
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[21:54:19] <davidf> OK gotta go...
[21:54:19] <Loetmichel> i know
[21:54:23] <Loetmichel> cu!
[21:54:33] <davidf> Nice talking to you
[21:54:39] <davidf> bye
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[23:34:29] <nicko> Siemens VFD
[23:34:56] <nicko> would you expect the cooling fan to go on on power up ?
[23:35:13] <nicko> or does it switch on appropriately - when its required ....
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