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[00:18:44] <IG-garage> oh, back to work again
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[00:26:07] * JT-Shop listens to some classical music... Green Onions
[00:26:37] <PCW> BookerT amd the MGs?
[00:34:36] <JT-Shop> Yes!
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[08:09:19] <anonimasu> morning
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[08:39:57] * Loetmichel is making a subd25_>subd9-adaptor out of a "normal" zinc shell -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12198
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[11:18:37] <IG-garage> "Drilling is a lifestyle! Yeah!"
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[11:50:43] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: howdy
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[12:00:30] <jthornton> YEA! no triple digit temps today
[12:04:09] <archivist> you can have our rain
[12:04:29] <jthornton> I'll take it
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[12:05:09] <archivist> were cushman chucks just bad or is mine worn and abused
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[12:06:07] <jthornton> maybe both?
[12:06:26] <archivist> so fixed play in backplate, re machined the register, and the body looks ok but the jaws are a long way out
[12:07:51] <archivist> in machining the new register to correct size for the chuck I never touched the old register dia, shows how out it was
[12:10:53] <jthornton> what is the register?
[12:13:35] <archivist> the backplate face
[12:13:43] <jthornton> ah, ok
[12:14:18] <archivist> and the smaller register dia that inserts into the chuck rear
[12:18:08] <archivist> one of these but with moooore rust
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/14-1-2-south-bend-lathe-please-give-me-some-feedback-176295/
[12:20:11] <jthornton> ok, now I understand... my lathe uses a D1-8 direct mount chuck so I'm not to familiar with the backplate type of mount
[12:22:03] <archivist> really the lathe is ready for scrap but I can do some good work on it as long as I can do it all at one setting
[12:26:19] <archivist> next job will be toolpost grind the jaws back to some sense
[12:27:26] <archivist> I wonder if someone did that while the backplate was bad
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[12:43:26] <jthornton> is the scroll worn out in spots?
[12:45:11] <jthornton> I usually have a 4 jaw chuck on the manual lathe
[12:45:21] <archivist> not been brave enough to dismember to that level
[12:45:50] <archivist> I need to find a key to start using the 4 jaw
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[13:04:15] <jthornton> I mounted a dial indicator to a tool holder for my tool post and just pop it on and dial in every piece I turn
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[14:15:08] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyFQjRBVOkI
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[14:21:30] <JT-Shop> neat!
[14:22:21] * JT-Shop just carried a piece of tubing from the garage to the shop and it ain't going back to the garage....
[14:24:51] * JT-Shop got the 3 in 1 sheet metal thingy moved into the shop last night :)
[14:28:02] <skunkworks_> lathe, mill, drill thingy?
[14:28:12] <skunkworks_> Ah sheet metal..
[14:30:14] <JT-Shop> this one
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Sheet-Metal-Machine-30-/G4011
[14:35:19] <skunkworks_> neat - we should get one of those some day.
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[14:39:24] <JT-Shop> it will break and roll 30" x 22ga and shear 30" x 28ga steel so it's good for some things
[14:40:06] <JT-Shop> this is the brake I use for up to 12ga stuff
http://www.grizzly.com/products/48-Pan-Box-Brake-12-Ga-/G0542
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[15:13:25] <skunkworks_> ok - I am trying to install emc simulator on my laptop. The ./configure --enable-simulator fails so I do a cd debian then the ./configure -a to try to get what I am missing. I get an error that there is no realtime kernel. (which I don't have)
[15:13:49] <cradek> what's the failure message?
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[15:15:35] <skunkworks> checking for Img using /usr/bin/tclsh8.5... configure: error: not found
[15:16:03] <skunkworks> when I try to do the configure -a I get no realtime kernels found!
[15:16:13] <cradek> libtk-img perhaps?
[15:16:15] <skunkworks> (it has the ! - I did not add it)
[15:16:25] <cradek> !!1!!!
[15:18:15] <skunkworks> wait - looks like you can do a -r to build for the currently running kernel - let me see if that works
[15:19:22] <skunkworks> hmm - nope - looks like I need to do this manually
[15:19:51] <skunkworks> so this
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Resolving_outstanding_build_dependencies
[15:19:52] <skunkworks> doesn
[15:20:04] <skunkworks> doesn't look like it works for simulator
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[15:21:15] <skunkworks> wait - wait - yes it does.
[15:21:38] <skunkworks> (I somehow backed out of the emc directory all together. -r seems to work
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[15:34:08] <skunkworks> does this make sense?
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Resolving_outstanding_build_dependencies
[15:34:22] <skunkworks> (read the last sentence also)
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[16:47:54] <anonimasu> hehe
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[17:01:03] <IchGuckLive> Hi all around the world
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[17:01:19] <The_Ball> skunkworks: you need --prefix for simulator now
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[17:15:01] <IchGuckLive> the biggest heavy metell festival in the World Wacken 2011 Germany has startet live ->
http://www.ndr.de/unterhaltung/musik_konzerte/wacken/livestream/index.html
[17:17:05] <newbynobi> My internet connection is to slow to watch live streams :-(
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[17:19:58] <IchGuckLive> osi osborne live thats the mega gig hope he will not die
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[18:11:03] <skunkworks> wow - there is a lot more stuff in master
[18:11:31] * skunkworks really needs to try iocontrolv2
[18:13:10] <skunkworks> wow - that is neat
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[18:25:02] <newbynobi> I am using iocontrol2 on my Heckler & Koch, using suprutines for Toolchange, it is working great
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[18:32:33] <skunkworks> newbynobi: Awesome!
[18:36:15] <newbynobi> Skunkworks: If you like, I can puplish my Configs, I got also a simulation one, itz is all on the Server from mhaberler
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[19:25:29] <Loetmichel> *hrhr* sweet cnc-mill... we needed a little time-delay (20s)... 1,5h from idea to almost ready part (2 resistors missing), and everything was made by the apprentice. Clever, fast learning kid I had nothing to do but show him some trics here and there ;-) ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12201
[19:26:21] <jdhNC> you could have just used the simple method.
[19:26:42] <Loetmichel> (today at work. i shouild REALLY bring my CNC mill home, its already like its in the inventory there)
[19:26:55] <Loetmichel> simple?
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[19:27:23] <jdhNC> a (really long) delay line.
[19:27:35] <Loetmichel> for a 5V power supply?
[19:27:36] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[19:29:28] <jdhNC> a 4M km line might take up too much room.
[19:29:36] <Loetmichel> its for a laserprinter. we modify it with a LPT>usb converter 'cause the customer has no usb at his computers. but the printer assumes everything is already configuresd if the usb has 5V on it at switch on, so i have to delay the power to the converter for about 20s so that the printer is ready when the converter puts 5V and data on the usbport.
[19:29:47] <Loetmichel> 4km for 20s?
[19:29:53] <Loetmichel> out of which material?
[19:30:03] <jdhNC> 4m km
[19:30:25] <Loetmichel> ah, that fits better ;)
[19:45:44] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: i am proud of my apprentice because he is learning IT-technican, not electronics developer or CNC-programmer. but he does good for only a few times practice with the little CNC mill
[19:49:23] <Jymmm> IT Tech is a worthless job to learn
[19:49:49] <Jymmm> unless in India or S.America
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[19:50:14] <Loetmichel> why do you think so?
[19:50:59] <Jymmm> All outsourced, not stable, over saturated market
[19:51:11] <Loetmichel> ahem...
[19:51:43] <Loetmichel> it tech is widely needed in companys to maintain the Computers there.
[19:52:06] <Jymmm> And companyies are not maintinaing inhouse techs anymore, they contract it out.
[19:52:20] <Loetmichel> not as good payed as a Sysop but needed nontheless
[19:52:41] <Loetmichel> so the contractors has to have It-techs
[19:52:50] <Jymmm> It's a worthless trade to learn in this day and age.
[19:53:02] <Loetmichel> and no, in germany not much outsourcing here
[19:53:59] <cradek> only barbering and hooking can't be outsourced
[19:53:59] <Jymmm> Yes, and they use and abuse their contractors as the market if flooded. If s/he wantes to have a valuable assests for the future, get into networking, or development.
[19:54:03] <Loetmichel> the only problem: the job is massively pushed by the unemplyment agency here, so there are a bit much of these techs
[19:54:11] <Loetmichel> which lowers the wage ;-)
[19:55:14] <Loetmichel> hew will work at our company i think
[19:55:28] <syyl> most big companys in germany have their IT outsourced...
[19:55:40] <Loetmichel> he will not be let off after he finishes his apprentice time next year
[19:55:43] <Jymmm> We are in the realm of disposable computers. It's cheaper to buy a new computer than to have it fixed.
[19:55:54] <syyl> if i have a problem with my cad machine, have to call a guy somewhere on the other and of germany
[19:55:59] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: A year is a long time.
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[19:56:57] <Loetmichel> i meant: he will work for us as a normal worker after finishing his learning time
[19:57:16] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: not if the computer is from our company ;-)
[19:57:59] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Seriously, having this person learn IT Tech as a trade in this day and age is doing him an injustice if anything other than a hobby or part time job. Development or electronics is far better.
[19:58:29] <Loetmichel> ( produced lately some 100pcs P4-3ghz with 1gb ram and 80gb disk... priced at about 8kEur. and each with a 17" TFT, priced at about 3kEur ;-)
[19:58:54] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: he is hired as an IT-tech apprentice.
[19:59:01] <cradek> Jymmm: barbering or hooking. programming and electronics are just as outsourceable.
[19:59:22] <Loetmichel> I do my best to teach him electronics, basic metalworking, CNC milling and so on ;-)
[19:59:30] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Well, lets hope that is just a stepping stone into something beigger.
[20:00:33] <Loetmichel> i am his "teacher" (besides being the production manager in this (relatively small) company)
[20:00:35] <Jymmm> cradek: No, there are actually a LOT of development positions, no autonomous self-programming (yet)
[20:01:22] <Loetmichel> and i hope he will be with my company for quite some time, 'cause i invested a lot of my free time and my private materials in him
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[20:01:56] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Well, if that is the case, get him his CCNA within the next 12 months.
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[20:02:44] <Jymmm> At least with a CCNA, he'll have some worth under his belt.
[20:03:14] <Jymmm> He'll have to bust his ass studying/learning, but it'll be well worth it if that's the route he wants to go.
[20:03:21] <Loetmichel> ccna?
[20:03:43] <Jymmm> Cisco Certified Network Associate.
[20:03:46] <Loetmichel> ah
[20:03:52] <cradek> haha
[20:04:18] <Loetmichel> but why cisco? i've heard cisco is on the falling edge?
[20:04:37] <Jymmm> It's valid for 3 years, then needs to be renewed.
[20:05:35] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: CCNA is somethng that's earned, meaning that you have to know wth you're doing, not worthless M$ certs which means you can read.
[20:06:12] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: but worthless if the company goes down
[20:06:38] <Loetmichel> besides: i wouldn't know where to apply in germany to get the CCNA cert
[20:06:44] <Jymmm> No, CCNA goes across company the board, you know networking.
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[20:07:18] <Jymmm> Doesn't matter if it's Juniper, HP, etc. you know routing protocols, etc.
[20:07:36] <Loetmichel> hmmm. besides: networking IS part of his trade
[20:07:56] <Tom_itx> damn storms
[20:07:59] <Jymmm> IT Tech != Network Engineer
[20:08:18] <Loetmichel> cabling/fibres as well as the protocols and the configuration
[20:08:25] <Tom_itx> good to have a genny
[20:08:31] <Jymmm> IT Tech == I can't printt" "I can't send email"
[20:08:33] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: thet depends on the job definition
[20:09:54] <Loetmichel> the job is called "IT-systemelektroniker" meaning "hardware, software, some programming, some Networking and even basic economics to sustain a selfowned company"
[20:10:46] <Jymmm> Network Engineer == VPN, Firewalls, redundancy, load balancing, BGP,
[20:10:47] <Loetmichel> but all on the "handyman" level, not on the engineer-level
[20:11:10] <Loetmichel> yes, but thats to learn mostly theoretical in school
[20:11:54] <Loetmichel> the boy is about 2 days a week in school and only 3 days in our company.
[20:12:27] <Jymmm> Screw theory, that's what Microsoft Certification is about, all on paper. CCNA the person will actually know about real world scenarios. It'll be useful to him everywhere.
[20:12:33] <Loetmichel> (blockwise, about 3 weeks 3 days school, than 3 weeks 5 days company, than again 3 days scool, 2 days company)
[20:12:41] <Jymmm> lot how old is he?
[20:12:45] <Loetmichel> 23
[20:14:12] <Jymmm> Make him get his CCNA within 12 months. Pay for materials and test. Once he gets it give him a raise. You'll gain the networking experience, he'll gain life knowledge that he can use anywhere.
[20:14:28] <Loetmichel> i cant give him a raise.
[20:14:45] <Jymmm> Even a 14yo kid can learn IT Tech
[20:14:45] <Loetmichel> first: i am not responsiblbe for the payment
[20:15:05] <Jymmm> Well, maybe just pay for his materials and test then.
[20:15:17] <Loetmichel> second: in germany the salary for apprentices are written down and fixed
[20:15:55] <Jymmm> If he has CCNA, he wouldn't be an apprectice I'd suspect.
[20:16:16] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: you seem to not understand the germnan education system.
[20:16:23] <Jymmm> not at all
[20:18:14] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: All I'm saying is 1) IT Tech is not much better than working at McDonalds. 2) If you want to do something for him, help him get his CCNA -or- get him to start in development.
[20:18:42] <Loetmichel> if a german kid finishes highscool, he can either go to a university or join a company for an apprentice time. in which he/she will learn a trade, accompanied by school time and sometimes practical work in big "learning workshops" and this time is a fixed time with some tests at the end
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[20:18:58] <Loetmichel> whrere you get the Cert that you are fit for the job
[20:19:20] <Loetmichel> the tests are made in a semi-government-organisation
[20:19:43] <Jymmm> And companies in .de honor these certs?
[20:19:49] <Loetmichel> yes
[20:19:53] <Jymmm> ALWAYS ?
[20:20:10] <Jymmm> Are they saturated?
[20:21:06] <Loetmichel> saturated?
[20:21:26] <Jymmm> Are there more IT Techs in .de than there is demand?
[20:21:46] <Loetmichel> IF you are looking for a new emplyee in germany you write the cert he needs in the job description
[20:22:21] <Loetmichel> so on without the cert the guy isnt even heard for the job
[20:23:14] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Ok, I understand that. But how is the job market for the last (lets say) year for IT Techs? Are they looking for 5 YRS EXPERIENCED ONLY?
[20:23:28] <Loetmichel> yes, more techs than jobs (thanks to the Unemployment agency which has pushed many unemployed gardender and bakers into payed learning another trade)
[20:23:46] <Jymmm> Are there few IT Tech jobs, 100? 1000?
[20:23:55] <Loetmichel> more like 1k
[20:23:58] <Loetmichel> 10k
[20:24:25] <Loetmichel> germany isnt a little state.
[20:24:39] <Loetmichel> we have about 80 million citizens ;-)
[20:25:32] <L84Supper> is it possible to fire an employee from a company in Germany?
[20:25:37] <Loetmichel> and mostly high industrialized , few farmers
[20:25:42] <Loetmichel> yes it is
[20:25:55] <L84Supper> I heard the laws are pretty restrictive about letting people go
[20:26:09] <Jymmm> Well, if that's the case, then good. In California, that is not the case. the dot com days had a huge shortage of IT Guys, so they started pushing everyone that direction. Then the dot bomb came, and now it's just flooded. But what is still in demand and always has been is developers.
[20:26:17] <Loetmichel> but the longer he is in, the longer the time is between "i fire you" and the last day at the company
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[20:26:59] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Here, seniority doesn't matter, when a company is about to bankrupt.
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[20:28:02] <Loetmichel> for exampe: i have a month "notice time", 'cause i am only 3 years at this company. if i were ther 10 years my notice time woulb be about half a year IIRC
[20:28:17] <Loetmichel> at least three months
[20:28:42] <L84Supper> heh, they would never allow a law like that back in the US today
[20:29:10] <Jymmm> L84Supper: Gotta love AT-WILL EMPLOYMENT laws
[20:29:59] <JT-Shop> Hi Dan
[20:30:11] <Loetmichel> yes, if the company files bankrupcy there is no notice time, thats right
[20:30:16] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Theres no such thing here in the States.
[20:30:27] <L84Supper> funny how the US fought against Facisim back in the 40's, only to have it takeover here 60 years later
[20:30:45] <Loetmichel> but if the compani is still living there almnost no war around the notice time
[20:31:01] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Customary is 14 days to let them know you quitting, but can be fired with zero notice.
[20:31:17] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: But only a custom, not law.
[20:31:25] <L84Supper> well more of an oligarchy or corporatocracy depending on your definition
[20:31:27] <Loetmichel> here it is law
[20:31:36] <Loetmichel> more or less
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[20:33:18] <Loetmichel> ther is a minimum law, and some "tarifvertrag" for certain trades, which means someone has gone on strike for the fact that NO company can legally employ a certain certified trade under a limit of paymant or such things as Vacatioon time and so on
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[20:34:41] <Loetmichel> for example i get 25 days of vacaton a year, law is minimum 24, and a wage of about 33,6kEur a year with the minimum wage for this job of about 25k a year
[20:35:09] <Loetmichel> all values out of memory, no proof here
[20:35:10] <L84Supper> Loetmichel: they have been dismantling the labor laws here that favor the workers in any way for the past 30 years
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[20:36:26] <Loetmichel> L84Supper: these laws ar one of the reasons all companys in germany are complainig about expensive work here
[20:36:42] <Loetmichel> ah, btw: NO one can be fired if ill
[20:36:50] <Loetmichel> REGARDLESS of time
[20:37:48] <Loetmichel> he/she can of coure be fired the first day he/she is back at the company. but then the written noticetime will kick in.
[20:38:20] <Loetmichel> s/ill/sick
[20:38:31] * anonimasu scrapes paint off the lathe
[20:38:48] <L84Supper> Loetmichel: what about import duties on goods manufactured in other countries outside of the EU?
[20:38:49] <anonimasu> it'll be getting some white instead of green tomorrow
[20:39:48] <Loetmichel> duties?
[20:40:00] <anonimasu> import tax
[20:40:04] <Loetmichel> you mean import tax?
[20:40:11] <L84Supper> yes
[20:40:14] <Loetmichel> on some goods yes
[20:40:18] <Loetmichel> on others no
[20:40:36] <L84Supper> just everything sold at Walmart :)
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[20:41:18] <Loetmichel> the book with Tax numbers from the german "borderpatrol" (waht is it called right?) is about 1m of shelf
[20:41:56] <Loetmichel> and the import tax is ranging from 0% to about 40% tax IIRC
[20:42:09] <Loetmichel> mostly in the range of 2-5%, often 0%
[20:43:37] <Loetmichel> for example: steel shafts for gearboxes are 0%, steel rods for linear bearings are 3.7%
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[20:44:18] <Loetmichel> it is THAT split up
[20:44:22] <L84Supper> foxconn announced they are going to install 1 million robots to replace workers
[20:44:44] <Loetmichel> so who will build and maintain the robots?
[20:45:01] <anonimasu> isnt that the suicide plagued factory..
[20:45:02] <JT-Shop> I'd much rather be a robot repairman than an assembly line worker
[20:45:03] <L84Supper> I'm trying to find out who makes the robots
[20:45:14] <L84Supper> http://mashable.com/2011/08/01/foxconn-robots/
[20:45:16] <anonimasu> abb/motoman
[20:45:34] <L84Supper> robots don't kill themselves
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[20:45:40] <L84Supper> bad for PR
[20:45:40] <anonimasu> probably or what's that other company
[20:45:41] <anonimasu> flexipicker..
[20:46:19] <L84Supper> http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/13/frida-concept-robot-will-solve-all-of-foxconns-problems-by-re/
[20:46:37] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: me too
[20:48:11] <L84Supper> I would have thought they would build their own robots
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[20:52:50] <L84Supper> has EMC2 made it into any commercial products?
[20:54:53] <alex4nder> L84Supper: you can use it with a tormach mill
[20:55:23] <L84Supper> the reprap projects roll their own and rely on a separate PC for design files, so you can DIY a 3dp for a few hundred $$ but you still have to have a PC
[20:57:53] <L84Supper> alex4nder: does it ship with EMC installed?
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[20:59:47] <L84Supper> http://www.tormach.com/Product_CAM_opinions.html
[21:00:36] <L84Supper> looks like they ship with Mach3
[21:06:10] <Jymmm> video
http://www.abb.com/cawp/abbzh254/fcfbdad9a72cfe08c1257862006bcfbf.aspx
[21:06:37] <cradek> L84Supper: at least sherline and smithy put emc2 on all their cnc machines
[21:06:51] <Jymmm> cradek: it's free
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[21:55:55] <JT-Shop> is this possible?
http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,21/id,12192/lang,english/#12192
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[22:15:59] <alex_joni> not from the ini
[22:16:19] <alex_joni> JT-Shop: I think you can do it with .axisrc, but I know too little python for that ;)
[22:16:37] <alex_joni> and it's after midnight here, so good night all ;)
[22:19:01] bootnecklad` is now known as
bootnecklad
[22:36:47] <JT-Shop> alex_joni: thanks
[22:38:52] <JT-Shop> all the outlets are installed except the one I can't find :/
[22:45:19] * JT-Shop goes to search what .axisrc is/does and thinks it is one of those little secret gems that hide out
[22:49:35] <JT-Shop> this is interesting "If it exists, the contents of ~/.axisrc are executed as Python source code just before the AXIS gui is displayed"
[23:08:24] <JT-Shop> hmm, this looks like where the button is created ("view_y", Button, ".toolbar.view_y"),
[23:09:39] <JT-Shop> hmm, could it be this? o.set_view_y()
[23:10:17] <Jymmm> Anyone want any PC Crap err... fine vintage technology (yeah, that's it) for the cost of shipping?
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[23:11:15] <Jymmm> shitloads of mobo
[23:12:01] <Jymmm> Going once...
[23:12:17] <JT-Shop> will you deliver?
[23:12:34] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Sure, for the cost of gas
[23:13:15] <JT-Shop> borrow one of Danimal_garage bicycles...
[23:13:36] <Jymmm> No AC
[23:14:05] <JT-Shop> yea, I got AC
[23:14:14] <Jymmm> These will hit the curb if nobody wants them
[23:14:24] <JT-Shop> recycle
[23:14:42] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Then you better hae a long ass extension cord to hold that AC at my face when I'm peddling
[23:15:02] <JT-Shop> I got a butt load of extension cords
[23:15:06] <Jymmm> They all work, I just doing my 10yr cleanout of crap.
[23:15:21] <Jymmm> My first one was 6 pallettes
[23:16:23] <Jymmm> Going twice...
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[23:59:50] <L84Supper> Jymmm: anything working and useful enough to run Linux + desktop manager with a nic?