#emc | Logs for 2011-07-15

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[00:00:08] <mikegg> I think it helps if you start with proven hardware
[00:00:50] <skunkworks_> andypugh: I suppose. I will take hard to get running over flaky any day though ;)
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[00:04:55] <skunkworks_> anyway - I don't care what any of you say - emc is the best! (prices may vary in Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico)
[00:05:38] <andypugh> Hmm, how to convert clocks to nanoseconds?
[00:09:25] <andypugh> skunkworks_: No, I think we will agree that EMC2 is the best priced, anywhee.
[00:10:01] <danimal_garage> lol
[00:10:19] <cradek> we have more trouble with lucid regarding lapic etc. unfortunately that's the consequence of trying to support multiple processors.
[00:10:44] <cradek> the choice for hardy was to always use just one processor, which makes it more likely to run on a wide variety of hardware
[00:10:54] <skunkworks_> does anyone remember an issue with lowering the servo thread with mesa hardware? I had tried earlier to raise it to 2khz - and got realtime delays. so I tried 1250khz and also got realtime delays
[00:11:04] <cradek> I'm still not sure which choice I think is better
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[00:12:09] <skunkworks_> I mean 1.25khz...
[00:12:18] <skunkworks_> :)
[00:12:36] <cradek> skunkworks_: with my complicated ladder (and not too modern machine) I couldn't get it to go any faster.
[00:12:43] <andypugh> cradek: Hmm, feel like answering my technical question over on -devel?
[00:12:45] <cradek> your machine is slow - seems like you wouldn't need it anyway?
[00:12:53] <skunkworks_> cradek: ok - that is what I was thinking...
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[00:13:48] <skunkworks_> cradek: Peter had mentioned raising the servo thread to get a better velocity estimate... but yes - it seems to be working fine.
[00:14:11] <cradek> does the code really say 1||<<12 ?
[00:14:40] <skunkworks_> (I have 1 axis running simulated tach output from emc to the amp)
[00:14:44] <andypugh> I think it is 1LL (1 as a U64)
[00:14:49] <cradek> oh, duh
[00:14:53] <cradek> stupid web browser
[00:14:55] <cradek> sorry
[00:15:20] <andypugh> But it still seems a bit, well, how to put this... wrong?
[00:15:56] <cradek> also see motion/control.c:245
[00:16:54] <danimal_garage> carbs officially clean
[00:17:09] <danimal_garage> they werent very dirty though, someone's been in there recently
[00:17:23] <danimal_garage> drilled out the jets a little
[00:17:36] <cradek> also see hal/drivers/hal_parport.c:382
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[00:19:41] <skunkworks_> cradek: it scares me a bit that it is so close to not working... (or is there something else going on) like how many more lines of ladder before 1khz is too fast?
[00:20:19] KimK_afk is now known as KimK
[00:20:20] <skunkworks_> I guess the ladder could be kept in a 500hz thread...
[00:21:30] <KimK> skunkworks: Are you having ladder problems? What's happening? I have some ladder issues too, let's compare notes, maybe?
[00:21:41] <andypugh> skunkworks_: How is Your C? I confess I have never seen the point in Ladder when you can write a state machine in Comp
[00:22:09] <skunkworks_> andypugh: sure.. (that is why I did the gear shift in comp.... - I could think my way though it)
[00:23:12] <skunkworks_> KimK: I was just saying that I tried to raise the servo thread frequency - and I got realtime delays at 1.250khz. Chris said - with his ladder - he could not get any faster either.
[00:23:12] <KimK> Does a comp offer handy highlighting of active inputs, outputs, internal bits, etc.?
[00:23:34] <skunkworks_> KimK: not really - that is nice isn't it ;)
[00:24:00] <andypugh> Have you seen the emco/boxford toolchanger comp on the forum? It is a reasonably good example of a state-machine
[00:24:23] <tom3p> :( my comp doesnt change axis.n.motor-pos-cmd and eventually craps out with a runaway axis (the dro climbs right outta site)
[00:24:29] <skunkworks_> KimK: what ladder problems are you having?
[00:24:40] <andypugh> KimK: No. But yes. But mainly no. You can set up diagnostic pins and watch in Halscope. That's about it.
[00:25:29] <tom3p> pyvcp/glade gets you indicators
[00:25:42] <andypugh> tom3p: That's a bit special. I have been trying to work out how to do that.
[00:25:44] <KimK> skunkworks: Yes, I think it even says (somewhere?) that no matter what you do, ladder will always run at 1khz. Which worries me, maybe they're internally forcing it to stay at one speed to mask other problems?
[00:26:19] <tom3p> andypugh, indicators or axis.n.motor-pos-cmd?
[00:26:41] <andypugh> tom3p: Getting a comp to alter the values shown in the DRO.
[00:26:48] <KimK> skunkworks: Maybe we need to find that lock, loosen it, and play with speeds until we see what breaks?
[00:27:06] <tom3p> andypugh, got that... i post code
[00:27:22] <skunkworks_> KimK: when you say we? ;) I think I would just break things.
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[00:28:30] <skunkworks_> maybe that is why you get realtime errors.. if you try to run it in a faster thread - it just keeps plugging away at 1khz
[00:28:57] <skunkworks_> when you watch the ladder scan - it gives you the speed - seems to be in uS
[00:30:01] <KimK> The problem I was having had more to do with using the ladder editor, or saving the edits or something. In any case I felt it was a bug, because I didn't think I was doing anything unusual, and it was repeatable, but only with that exact file I was editing? So I haven't said anything yet. I think it was two or three compares on one page?
[00:30:27] <skunkworks_> like the second screenshot down http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?ClassicLadderExamples
[00:31:34] <skunkworks_> KimK: The interface is a bit lacking.. but once you know it - it doesn't seem so bad. kinda like getting used to eagle pcb cad
[00:31:46] <tom3p> andypugh, http://pastebin.com/1iRLxwAn it works with the dro. i manualy enable it, i manual setp the offset param, the joint really moves and the dro is right
[00:32:51] <skunkworks_> KimK: you have seen some of my ladder. If I was having saving issues I think I would have pulled my hair out :)
[00:32:56] <KimK> skunkworks: When I saved my edit, it would change things in other pages in the ladder. Most also were compares, but I think it changed some other stuff too. So I made a strategic retreat, and re-wrote it using contacts/coils, and made it simpler. But that's bad because now it doesn't do everything it was supposed to. I haven't gotten back to sort that out, but I need to soon.
[00:33:14] <andypugh> tom3p: Ah, so you just move the following error limits out of the way?
[00:34:05] <KimK> skunkworks: I want to get back to that situation and more fully and properly debug it, but I'll need help, I don't know how to do that sort of thing very well.
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[00:34:31] <tom3p> good catch, i haqdnt said that, but... it runs away at maybe 50 units even thought i set FERROR to 5.00inches! so theres more to it ( ok for maybe 30 counts )
[00:34:32] <skunkworks_> KimK: if you do not have enough 'componants' allocated in the initialization string in emc's hal file.. it does funky things
[00:34:57] <skunkworks_> if you use more compares than you have set in the hal file - they overwrite one another.
[00:35:16] <skunkworks_> took me a few to figure out what was going on.
[00:35:28] <skunkworks_> I bet that is what you are seeing
[00:36:22] <KimK> skunkworks: I do have a very long init string, I think I hit everything, unless there were one or two I had to leave out because it didn't like?
[00:36:35] <tom3p> andypugh, i set the ferror limit way up hoping thatd get me more dynamic range, but it didnt
[00:37:27] <KimK> skunkworks: OK, I'll check that when I get back to it, but I'm thinking that's not it. Let me know if you think of any other possibilities, though.
[00:37:45] <andypugh> tom3p: If you write a value to -fb that doesn't match -cmd then EMC2 will not be happy.
[00:38:01] <tom3p> andypugh, all i can see now is that axis.n.motor-pos-cmd doesnt update when the comp is enabled ( and effs up ) and does update when disabled
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[00:38:51] <tom3p> andypugh, did you see the comp? it does match -fb and -cmd downstream, i dont have control over the above mentioned tho
[00:38:54] <andypugh> Too late for me at the moment, and I have a cute blonde german on another chat,
[00:39:19] <tom3p> well what are you doing here? ;)
[00:39:25] <danimal_garage> it's likely a dude
[00:39:30] <tom3p> haha
[00:39:50] <andypugh> No, I have investigated.
[00:40:24] <KimK> skunkworks: Thanks! I've got to run an errand. Back later.
[00:40:31] <danimal_garage> anyone can send pictures of a girl
[00:40:42] <tom3p> me gone too , bye
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[00:42:46] <skunkworks_> KimK_afk: I think this is my current string loadrt classicladder_rt numRungs=24 numBits=30 numWords=4 numTimers=5 numMonostables=10 numPhysInputs=50 numPhysOutputs=30 numArithmExpr=30 numSections=10
[00:43:36] <skunkworks_> I would guess compares are under 'numarthmexpr'
[00:43:37] <andypugh> danimal_garage: True, but she is actually a friend in RL.
[00:44:44] KimK_afk is now known as KimK
[00:46:07] <KimK> skunkworks: Your message just caught me, so I looked mine up: # Full-length string now works (except for numSymbols=Auto) (Also removed numFloatIn=5 numFloatOut=5 for now): \n loadrt classicladder_rt numRungs=150 numBits=200 numWords=50 numTimers=10 numTimersIec=10 numMonostables=10 numCounters=10 numPhysInputs=255 numPhysOutputs=255 numArithmExpr=50 numSections=10 numSymbols=900 numS32in=10 numS32out=10
[00:47:46] <KimK> Back in a little while
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[00:48:00] <danimal_garage> there are surgeries
[00:48:17] <danimal_garage> you can never be really sure anymore
[00:48:38] <danimal_garage> dangit my motorcycle wont start now
[00:48:56] <danimal_garage> it just sputters like it's running on 1 cyl
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[00:49:11] <andypugh> danimal_garage: When the surgery is that convincing, who cares?
[00:49:17] <danimal_garage> lol
[00:49:24] <danimal_garage> to each his own
[00:50:16] <andypugh> danimal_garage: There is one odd-video-out on my Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ab7_AF8jE
[00:52:05] <danimal_garage> ok she might be a girl
[00:52:23] <theos> who she? 0.o
[00:53:45] <theos> ow
[00:53:48] <andypugh> A friend of mine.
[00:54:08] <theos> its not confirmed yet? :D
[00:54:20] <theos> nice belly dancing :)
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[01:12:48] <danimal_garage> well it's running, but barely
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[01:14:48] <Valen> air fuel spark and compression buddy
[01:15:46] * Valen runs
[01:17:17] <Jymmm> Whats the difference in these nics? http://goo.gl/sjpty
[01:19:09] <skunkworks_> one is a blk
[01:20:08] <skunkworks_> is the only difference that one comes in a box?
[01:21:09] <andypugh> I wonder if the one without "gigabit" in the name isn't actually?
[01:23:08] <Jymmm> BLK == BULK packaging?
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[01:23:55] <Jymmm> as long as it has the low profile bracket (which it appears that it does) I don't care.
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[01:38:27] <Valen> intel probably has a datasheet that'll break down the part number
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[01:39:40] <Valen> actually from memory
[01:39:55] <Valen> stuff like CT has extra doodads for teaming/bonding etc
[01:40:05] <Valen> Jymmm:
[01:40:10] <andypugh> The cheaper one has WoL
[01:43:11] <andypugh> G'night all.
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[01:57:20] <Connor> okay guys, what kind of endmill / router bit do I need to cut out shapes in .032" Brass ? I'm making Pet Name Tags for my Dogs etc..
[01:57:45] <Connor> I plan on using a V-bit to engrave them.. but, I'm not sure on the cutting them out...
[01:57:56] <cradek> can you stamp them?
[01:58:06] <ds3> isn't it cheaper to have them die cut for blanks?
[01:58:16] <ds3> 0.032 is a bit nasty to hold down
[01:58:27] <cradek> yes, clamping will be what makes this hard, not endmill selection
[01:58:55] <cradek> on brass you could use any old 1/8 or 1/16 end mill and it'd probably be fine
[02:02:31] <ds3> run it FAST
[02:02:48] <ds3> brass is like 300SFPM for HSS, IIRC
[02:03:34] <ds3> so for 1/8, that makes it 4800 RPM.. for carbide, about 9600... for 1/16 and carbide, 19200RPM
[02:05:02] <Tom_itx> Connor, clamp a sacrifice material on top of the brass
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[03:00:43] <Connor> OKay, this IS a router, not a mill, so it'll be running min 15,000RPM
[03:01:56] <Connor> I've got a 1/8" end mill for use with non-ferrous metal..
[03:02:12] <Connor> Stamping would be nice, but, I'm not going to be making allot of these..
[03:03:33] <Connor> the 1/8" is 2 flute, and ZrN Coated
[03:05:27] <Connor> Once I get shapes cut, I'll put them into pocket of the same shape in MDF, use the hole for the little split ring to secure it down for the engraving.
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[03:16:30] <Valen> I reckon glue it to a chunk of something
[03:16:41] <Valen> then cut it out
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[03:30:09] <Jymmm> Valen: ah, ty
[03:30:47] <Valen> dont quote me on which way does what though lol
[03:31:45] <Jymmm> it's all good in this scenario. Just trying to whore out the bandwidth
[03:33:02] <Jymmm> Hmmm, that gives me an idea...
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[03:38:53] <Valen> bonding = more bandwidth ;->
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[03:47:15] <toastydeath> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kv7zK_tsSuc/Th-zw_E_sMI/AAAAAAAAAKg/f8iRw9Z5yPQ/s1152/_DSC6112.jpg
[03:47:27] <toastydeath> I seem to take a lot of pictures of alcohol
[03:47:30] <toastydeath> in other news, i'm drinking
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[05:33:20] <jbunch> SWPadnos : We bought a new house just starting to setup the new shop. Got robbed lost all of
[05:33:28] <jbunch> my tools. Alot of the parts made by heidenhain for my bridgeport were in the toolbox as well as my tooling.
[05:34:19] <jbunch> so I purchaed a CnC lathe that i am going to convert to emc2.
[05:34:46] <jbunch> w are you.
[05:34:54] <jbunch> how
[05:41:50] <Jymmm> jbunch: Where is this ?
[05:44:38] <jbunch> oregon. bad hair day.
[05:44:50] <Jymmm> Thieves are like cockroaches, they don't like the light. Put up security lights
[05:45:31] <jbunch> now have ligts cameras working on gate for driveway.
[05:45:59] <jbunch> and alarm systems. with access control
[05:47:07] <jbunch> the interesting part is I have replacem sent ins. Wonder what they will do.
[05:47:51] <jbunch> replacement
[05:48:50] <jbunch> it happened in the middle of the day while we were out for a couple of hours.
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[05:53:32] <Valen> sucky :-<
[05:53:45] <Valen> our house looks too crappy to steal from
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[05:55:51] <jbunch> ours is about 180 ft off the street and was pretty isolated. moved alot of dirt 3 weeks ago not so much any mor
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[06:13:30] <Jymmm> jbunch: Make sure some of those cameras can see/focus on the license plate. I had my camera stolen from my care AND I have it all on video too, but couldn't make out the license plate, so never caught the guy.
[06:14:06] <Jymmm> c/care/car/
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[06:15:06] <psha[work]> logger[psha]: .
[06:15:48] <Valen> Jymmm: there may be ways of recovering it if you have an actual video of it
[06:16:24] <Jymmm> Valen: I have it on dvd actually,
[06:16:42] <Valen> i mean its not like "security" footage, 1 FPS
[06:17:32] <Jymmm> Not 1 FPS, but not high quality video camera either.
[06:17:52] <Jymmm> Swann stuff
[06:18:06] <archivist_emc> Valen, bar stewards steal from crappy looking places too :(
[06:25:36] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[06:41:33] <Loetmichel> hmmm... my workshop is SO cramped with junk, i dont know how a thief will be able gto find something worthwhile...
[06:41:44] <Loetmichel> maybe my mess has a good side ;-)
[06:42:04] <Loetmichel> -g
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[06:55:31] <jbunch> jymmm:1- 2 megapixel toshiba camera 2- open eye megapixel cameras. recording software at 30 fps. IR triggerd lights so I get a clean picture at night.
[06:56:10] <Jymmm> jbunch: Just park your car 30ft away from the camera and see if you can read the license plate.
[06:56:25] <Valen> see if somebody else can read it
[06:56:36] <Valen> (if theres any doubt)
[06:56:37] <Jymmm> what Valen said
[06:56:57] <Jymmm> also, move the car and see if you can read the plate while it's moving.
[06:57:16] <jbunch> With this camera I can clean HD picture
[06:57:25] <Jymmm> fuck HD
[06:57:36] <Jymmm> It's the lens you need to be concerned with
[06:58:05] <Jymmm> and if the ccd sensor can keep up with moving objects
[06:59:49] <psha[work]> hm, thieves drive cars with clean readable plates?!
[07:00:31] <Jymmm> sure, they just steal them from another car.
[07:00:47] <jbunch> it has a great lense I will check how it works with motion. I have not seen many camera lense combinations that look as clean as this.
[07:00:47] <Valen> probably wont happen again or it'll happen in a few weeks
[07:01:03] <Valen> they target people who recently move in
[07:01:10] <Valen> then when they get insurance
[07:02:51] <psha[work]> jbunch: pan tilt camera with tracking ability, rfid markers to distinguish between friend and foe (IFF) and something like tennis ball shooter to frigthen them
[07:03:17] <Jymmm> Or, just get a phalanx.
[07:03:29] <psha[work]> Jymmm: not cheap one...
[07:03:47] <psha[work]> and usually flak turrents have too high rate of fire for home security
[07:03:48] <Valen> paintball gun with openCV + EMC
[07:04:09] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Um, you better google phalanx.
[07:04:13] <Valen> still at least with a phalanx you don't have to worry about disposing of the body
[07:04:23] <jbunch> when the gate goes in i am adding rfid to our cars to open the gate. i am also adding a feature to the gate that if the alarm trips the gate will no longer open.
[07:04:52] <psha[work]> Jymmm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS
[07:05:11] <Jymmm> jbunch: I wouldn't add anythng that automaticaly open doors/gates.
[07:06:27] <psha[work]> Jymmm: you think that it's cheap? :) or it's rate of fire is ok? :)
[07:06:52] <Jymmm> psha[work]: I asked to work on them.
[07:07:05] <Jymmm> err, s/asked/used/
[07:07:39] <jbunch> I am using rfid for the access to shop and house now. the remotes for this system are 128 bit encripted.the rfid tqgs willread at around 75 ft.
[07:08:02] <jbunch> we no longer keep rf door remotes in the cars.
[07:09:06] <jbunch> look at the paxton stuff pretty cool
[07:09:40] <psha[work]> ah, i've been robbed too!
[07:09:40] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i have used the moint of a phalanx for a sattelite dish on the ship as i was in the german navy
[07:09:45] <Loetmichel> mount
[07:09:46] <psha[work]> sombody broke my mailbox!
[07:10:01] <psha[work]> and steal bunch of ads spam from it :)
[07:10:16] <psha[work]> i mean real mailbox, not electronic
[07:10:42] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: All you wanted was your M-TV!!!
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[07:35:44] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: no, not m-tv, but TV at all
[07:35:57] <Loetmichel> its non-trivial on a ship
[07:37:39] <Loetmichel> was about half a year work to get the ships gps and tiltsensors tangled with the Phalanx-mount to couinteract the rolling ship ;-)
[07:38:14] <Loetmichel> so the sattelite dish points directly to the sattelite, regardless of position and weather
[07:39:20] <Loetmichel> and it was in the nineties, so no fast µc aviable. Had to do it with a Z80 and some ram and rom
[07:40:40] <Loetmichel> but to provide 70 persons with tv you can go som stretch ;-)
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[07:42:58] <grandrew> hi all! Is it possible to launch emc2 gui without rtapi support from kernel? Just to view the gcode file?
[07:45:21] <psha[work]> yes
[07:45:24] <psha[work]> install emc2-sim
[07:45:35] <psha[work]> it's simulator without any realtime support
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[07:46:39] <grandrew> I've compiled it with configure --enable-simulator but it still needs rtapi. Or is emc2-sim some different product?
[07:46:57] <psha[work]> with --enable-simuator it don't need rtapi
[07:47:11] <psha[work]> however maybe you need to tune your .ini /.hal files to remove some things like loadrt partport
[07:49:17] <anonimasu> this comp stuff is easy :D
[07:49:37] <anonimasu> so so similiar to iec-61131-3
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[07:50:57] <anonimasu> only thing is will stuff be persistant between calls to my function, or do I need to set them as param or pin to be that way?
[07:53:05] <grandrew> are there any examples of config files for simulator?
[07:54:42] <psha[work]> anonimasu: it depends - local variables will be local to call, global - presistent between calls
[07:54:54] <psha[work]> grandrew: yes, directory 'sim' in examples
[07:56:13] <grandrew> psha[work], they still have rtapi function calls, .hal and motmod requirements :-( I've removed them but emc2 still complains about missing rtapi
[07:57:48] <anonimasu> psha[work]: neat!
[07:57:48] <grandrew> hmm maybe I shouldn't configured with --enable-run-in-pace
[08:04:17] <grandrew> hmm rebuilding with just --enable-simulator and it is still trying to compile rtapi source files (which also do not have support for my ARM machine and produce errors but I already fixed that)
[08:05:51] <psha[work]> grandrew: --enable-simulator --enable-run-in-place
[08:06:04] <psha[work]> it's building pseudo rtapi - for hal and other things
[08:06:07] <psha[work]> it's userspace libs
[08:06:20] <psha[work]> if you built RIP (runinplace) then you have to source scrips/emc-environment
[08:06:26] <psha[work]> otherwise it'll try to load system wide emc
[08:07:49] <grandrew> despite of building userspace libs it complains about bitops support which I don't think is much related to userspace
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[08:08:08] <psha[work]> bitops?
[08:08:22] <psha[work]> pastebin errors
[08:08:48] <anonimasu> how do i set a parameter with halcmd?
[08:09:19] <psha[work]> halcmd setparam?
[08:09:30] * psha[work] don't have emc installation around
[08:11:27] <grandrew> it compains about ./src/rtapi/rtapi_bitops.h not supporting ARM. I've just created empty test_and_set_bit and test_and_clear_bit functions to make it compile OK
[08:11:53] <anonimasu> nvm, code bug
[08:13:51] <psha[work]> grandrew: it's used both for RT and sim versoin
[08:13:53] <psha[work]> version
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[08:14:28] <psha[work]> grandrew: The header file <asm/bitops.h> is not usable and rtapi does not yet have support for your CPU
[08:14:32] <psha[work]> this error?
[08:15:08] <grandrew> right
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[08:15:44] <psha[work]> grandrew: you may try 'include <linux/bitops.h>'
[08:15:50] <psha[work]> near that error
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[08:16:31] <psha[work]> grandrew: you have arm native compilation? or cross?
[08:17:17] <grandrew> I already fixed that by adding empty functions and it compiles OK. Native
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[08:18:08] <psha[work]> grandrew: it compiles != it will work
[08:18:32] <grandrew> I don't need it to work - I am trying to first get the AXIS gui working
[08:18:50] <psha[work]> try adding #include <linux/bitops.h>
[08:19:23] <psha[work]> axis gui relies on communication with interpeter and other parts
[08:19:33] <grandrew> ok, will need some time to rebuild
[08:19:35] <psha[work]> so there are chances that you need this stuff
[08:20:00] <grandrew> running scripts/emc complains about rtapi kernel module must be loaded
[08:21:21] <psha[work]> after rebuild?
[08:21:28] <psha[work]> with simulator mode?
[08:23:26] <anonimasu> perfect.. I have my comp wait for the angle from the userspace component now ^_^
[08:24:08] <grandrew> psha[work], with configure --enable-simulator. I'm not sure of how to run in simulator mode
[08:25:06] <psha[work]> same as usual - source scripts/emc-environment and run 'emc'
[08:26:16] <psha[work]> grandrew: have you run '. scripts/ems-environment' ?
[08:27:57] <grandrew> linux/bitops.h no such file or directory
[08:29:17] <mrsunshine__> rain day == scraping day? :)
[08:29:59] <grandrew> psha[work], no I haven't, need to rebuild once again with my empty bitops to try that
[08:30:37] <psha[work]> grandrew: linux/bitops is in linux includes, not in linux-headers
[08:30:44] <psha[work]> but you may try asm/bitops instread
[08:30:51] <psha[work]> with probably defifing _LINUX_BITOPS_H
[08:31:19] <psha[work]> asm/bitops is not in -headers package too...
[08:32:01] <grandrew> btw where can I share my hal driver sources, configs, schematics and milling GC's of my TLE5205 and parport based CNC controller?
[08:32:17] <psha[work]> grandrew: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blob;f=arch/arm/include/asm/bitops.h;hb=HEAD
[08:32:44] <psha[work]> grandrew: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blob;f=include/linux/bitops.h;hb=HEAD
[08:33:16] <psha[work]> however it looks like you need only first one
[08:33:41] <anonimasu> very nice,
[08:33:49] <anonimasu> it sits and waits for angle from the userspace part now ^_^
[08:34:04] <grandrew> psha[work], I'm afraid this will not work: #error only <linux/bitops.h> can be included directly
[08:34:15] <anonimasu> then sets enable out and gives the angle for commutation..
[08:36:22] <grandrew> psha[work], It's better to rewrite test_and_set_bit in ARM asm if we need a working version of it :-)
[08:37:49] <anonimasu> so I just hook that up to the axis amp enable.. :)
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[08:39:01] <psha[work]> 12:30 < psha[work]> with probably defifing _LINUX_BITOPS_H
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[08:39:42] <anonimasu> psha[work]: is there a way to stop the machine from moving until a condition is met?
[08:40:02] <psha[work]> anonimasu: during homing process?
[08:40:06] <anonimasu> no, before
[08:40:12] <psha[work]> yes, trigger estop :D
[08:40:15] <anonimasu> I dont need to home, I need to wait for my abs encoders to provide angle data
[08:40:19] <anonimasu> so I can commnute my motors
[08:40:21] <anonimasu> motion.enable?
[08:40:25] <psha[work]> probably
[08:40:43] <anonimasu> what gets/sets that pin?
[08:40:50] <anonimasu> is it always set when motion is allowed to move the machine
[08:40:54] <psha[work]> grandrew: or just copy functions from arch/arm/include/asm/bitops.h
[08:41:00] <psha[work]> if you don't want to bother with includes
[08:41:11] <psha[work]> anonimasu: man motion :)
[08:42:07] <psha[work]> anonimasu: there is list of all pins
[08:42:12] <psha[work]> maybe motion.motion-enable
[08:42:17] <psha[work]> enabled
[08:42:41] <anonimasu> true when motion is enabled is all it says
[08:42:50] <anonimasu> but what can cause that to be not true?
[08:43:00] <psha[work]> try it :)
[08:43:07] <psha[work]> what? you can cause it
[08:43:20] <anonimasu> yeah but is there something else that can dissallow motion?
[08:43:37] <psha[work]> i don't see anything better in man page
[08:43:56] <psha[work]> you may trigger 'power off' also
[08:44:02] <psha[work]> in that mode no motion is done
[08:44:05] <anonimasu> I mean, I cant move motors before I have commutation data
[08:44:19] <psha[work]> then connect it to power on pin
[08:44:21] <anonimasu> but that's different, that will kill my drives
[08:44:28] <psha[work]> no
[08:44:37] <psha[work]> it's not really Power
[08:44:40] <psha[work]> it's just machine state
[08:44:56] <psha[work]> set motion.enable to false until you get all needed data
[08:45:01] <psha[work]> using and2 component
[08:45:04] <anonimasu> mhm,great.
[08:45:11] <anonimasu> works perfect ^_^
[08:46:01] <anonimasu> now I just need to figure out how to make my component distinguish different axes from eachother...
[08:46:13] <psha[work]> look into demo_mazak.hal
[08:46:29] <psha[work]> there is exmaple of motion.enable hooked to classicladder
[08:48:45] <anonimasu> any idea how to make a component that the question is now how to provide data to a comp..
[08:49:45] <psha[work]> anonimasu: explain better :)
[08:49:58] <anonimasu> I have a userspace component that needs to pull serial data from a encoder
[08:50:06] <anonimasu> actually multiple of them
[08:50:24] <anonimasu> then send the axis number and the encoder angle to hal
[08:50:28] <anonimasu> err to the comp
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[08:51:26] <psha[work]> and?
[08:51:29] <anonimasu> they are on the same serial port
[08:51:46] <psha[work]> userspace comp know axis number?
[08:51:50] <psha[work]> create several pins
[08:52:07] <psha[work]> userspace.axis.0
[08:52:11] <psha[work]> userspace.axis.1
[08:52:11] <anonimasu> I guess, I could just hack my comp for each case..
[08:52:11] <psha[work]> etc
[08:52:24] <psha[work]> and load several instances of your comp
[08:52:36] <anonimasu> but I'd like to make it more generic
[08:52:44] <anonimasu> so I can spec the encoder id somehow
[08:55:59] <psha[work]> what's your rt component doing?
[08:56:17] <psha[work]> may you paste source?
[08:57:53] <anonimasu> one second
[08:58:20] <anonimasu> http://pastebin.com/LM8nhXLi
[09:00:10] <anonimasu> it works fine now :) no problems, userspace handles encoder stuff..
[09:00:41] <anonimasu> ie, when it receives position from both encoders it'll flip the request_angle to zero to show it's done
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[09:10:10] <anonimasu> it's not for homing
[09:10:18] <anonimasu> it's for setting up commutation data while the machine is static
[09:10:28] <anonimasu> err old log -_-
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[09:33:17] <psha[work]> anonimasu: i bet you may do same with combination of existing or/and/... components...
[09:33:30] <psha[work]> but it's very simple so why not to write own comp :)
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[13:30:50] <mazafaka> Do you (abroad) solder high-speed steel plates onto square metal cutters and grind it to get the cutter for Lathe?
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[13:44:04] <mazafaka> top surface to cutting surface must have a tine radius, so does on the sides - but only tiny one which is made not on a grinding wheel but on diamond clad wheel, only a tiny touch to the edges to remove the corners (or this part of material will crack).
[13:48:53] <anonimasu> mazafaka: no it dosent pay off in the long run
[13:50:53] <anonimasu> repeatability is too poor
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[13:55:10] <mazafaka> anonimasu: and what is commonly used instead?
[13:55:40] <mazafaka> such thingies clamped with a bolt?
[13:56:07] <mazafaka> OK, I'll go take a ride for a couple of hours, it's evening already. :)
[13:57:36] <anonimasu> mazafaka: yes
[13:57:43] <anonimasu> real carbide inserts
[13:59:47] <anonimasu> ie, seco sandvik, and whatever brands they have
[14:07:20] KimK_afk is now known as KimK
[14:08:00] <skunkworks_> KimK: did you say the ladder works now?
[14:09:10] <KimK> skunkworks: I got it to work, but not the way I wanted, and I may have to get back into that before too long.
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[14:12:53] <pcw_home> Why is CL so abominably slow? As soon as you use CL you are limited to 1-2 KHz max instead of maybe 6-10 KHz
[14:12:55] <pcw_home> What is does is not complex enough to warrant so much time
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[14:14:10] <skunkworks_> like I said - it shows the scan time in the gui - it usually is under 20us... So I don't know what the deal is.
[14:14:22] <cradek> skunkworks_: where in the thread are you running it?
[14:14:34] <skunkworks_> cradek: let me look
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[14:21:22] <skunkworks__> http://pastebin.com/Dx3FFegw
[14:21:35] <skunkworks_> looks like the first thread...
[14:23:13] <skunkworks_> cradek: ^
[14:23:17] <cradek> you might try it after motion
[14:23:25] <skunkworks_> I will
[14:23:41] <cradek> iirc, it used to only run at 100Hz, no matter how often you called its thread - not sure if that's still true
[14:24:02] <cradek> but it caused wildly varying thread execution times as you might guess
[14:24:18] <cradek> (but I think it runs every time now)
[14:24:33] <cradek> still different runs might take different amounts of time, depending on how much of the ladder gets triggered
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[14:27:58] <anonimasu> with ac servos what happens if the encoder dies?
[14:29:56] <cpresser> anonimasu: most likely the PID has no feedback anymore, it will tune ist output to maximum; the machine will crash if there are no hard-limit switches
[14:30:51] <anonimasu> hm, seems like a comp module to monitor velocity, and commanded velocity
[14:30:56] <anonimasu> err encoder feedback
[14:31:09] <anonimasu> and if there's nothing in 100ms error
[14:31:17] <JT-Shop> wouldn't you get a following error asap when the encoder dies
[14:31:38] <cradek> JT-Shop: if currently moving, yes
[14:31:43] <cradek> JT-Shop: if not, probably no
[14:32:45] <KimK> skunkworks, and all: I've got to get back to work, but post any ladder thoughts, I'll scroll back.
[14:35:47] KimK is now known as KimK_afk
[14:37:39] <pcw_home> anonimasu: if the encoder is used for commutation and you lose it when in motion, you will suddenly have a 60 or so degree step motor
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[14:39:08] <pcw_home> err 90 degree or so
[14:41:42] <pcw_home> so if you dont have some kind of fault detection it will come to a stop as smoothly as a pig on stilts
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[14:50:54] <anonimasu> so, it might be a good idea to minitor output versus encoder velocity(something like that)
[14:51:01] <JT-Shop> greased or regular pig?
[14:51:03] <anonimasu> my machine will crash in 2 seconds at full speed...
[14:51:07] <anonimasu> or less
[14:51:39] <anonimasu> so, better be careful
[14:53:12] <pcw_home> Good thing about AC servos is they are less likely to runaway on component failure
[14:53:14] <pcw_home> (since they need power and commutation to turn, not just power like a brush motor)
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[14:59:44] <pcw_home> You will get a FE if in encoder is lost in motion so that should be enough
[14:59:46] <pcw_home> if encoder fails and you are not in motion, and the encode is used for commutation,
[14:59:48] <pcw_home> most you can turn is 180 electrical degrees (90 mechanical on 4 pole)
[14:59:49] <pcw_home>
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[15:11:40] <anonimasu> I see
[15:12:10] <anonimasu> pcw_home: while I have you here, what's the options for shielding motor wiring?
[15:12:21] <anonimasu> just use the shielded wire and ground it to control cabinet frame?
[15:12:37] <anonimasu> or should the grounding it go against the motor frame? also
[15:13:07] <anonimasu> the connector data says to leave the shield into the connectors
[15:13:58] <pcw_home> The main issue we've found are the large return currents from the PWM drive through the motor winding capacitance to ground
[15:15:35] <anonimasu> and how do you properly shield that?
[15:16:42] <pcw_home> creating a nasty ground loop. Best solution we've found is continuous shield from motor to drive
[15:16:44] <pcw_home> and ferrite common mode choke over U,V,W motor wires
[15:17:06] <anonimasu> what about the encoder cables?
[15:18:11] <pcw_home> If they are differential they should be OK, better if encoder shell is not grounded to motor frame however
[15:18:26] <anonimasu> they are pre-built motors by allen bradley
[15:18:31] <anonimasu> no choice about encoders on them
[15:18:40] <anonimasu> sin/cos output
[15:19:07] <anonimasu> using twisted pair shielded cable
[15:20:02] <anonimasu> what I wonder is, do I just connect the shield at the cabinet end and that's all
[15:20:04] <pcw_home> So differential one pair per sin,cos?
[15:20:08] <anonimasu> yeah
[15:20:33] <anonimasu> sin+/sin- cos+/cos- and +/-
[15:20:33] <pcw_home> Yes thats what I would do on the encoder leads
[15:20:59] <anonimasu> and the data connection goes in a separate cable
[15:21:22] <anonimasu> since that's not as critical, only at startup and it it fails, it wont let me move the machine
[15:21:42] <anonimasu> also differential
[15:21:46] <pcw_home> differential amp receiver for sin/cos should reject most noise
[15:22:48] <anonimasu> actually all diff signals in one shielded cable and vcc/gnd separate
[15:23:02] <anonimasu> since they need different power
[15:24:19] <pcw_home> is motor drive in separate control box? ground between motor drive and machine should be as short and low inductance as possible
[15:24:21] <pcw_home> (since this is where the switching spike currents flow)
[15:24:53] <anonimasu> no
[15:29:20] <pcw_home> ?
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[15:43:56] <robin_> sigh
[15:44:04] <robin_> not good ...
[15:44:27] <robin_> if you have a 9hp Perske spindle
[15:44:39] <robin_> and normally it runs so qiet you can hardly hear it
[15:44:51] <robin_> and then one day, you can hear it from 50 yards away
[15:44:56] <robin_> is that a bad sign?
[15:49:57] <anonimasu> yes
[15:51:48] <syyl> bearings..
[15:52:14] <Loetmichel> *grrrr* fedex HAD to deliver the two Notebooks five minutes before end of work. Now i am sitting here and installing XP in stereo... then drivers, tehn Testsoftware... so my boss can use the weekend fpr Measurements... :-(
[15:52:20] <Loetmichel> for
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[16:05:34] <skunkworks__> is that code for gaming>
[16:05:36] <skunkworks__> ?
[16:06:11] <Loetmichel> no
[16:08:14] <Loetmichel> i work for a company which builds computers which are rugged and/or protected against eavsedropping
[16:08:56] <Loetmichel> and we just got 2 new laptops to shield them and measure the shielding
[16:09:28] <Loetmichel> so i have to work overtime so that boss can measure the notebooks
[16:10:08] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: windows xp usualy takes an hour
[16:10:27] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: TEMPEST?
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[16:16:44] <danimal_garage> tell your boss to get a life
[16:16:46] <danimal_garage> :)
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[16:24:56] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: yes
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[16:26:58] * JT-Shop gets a paint roller out :)
[16:27:05] <JT-Shop> Hi Dan!
[16:28:27] <skunkworks__> an hour if you start with sp3 :)
[16:29:55] <danimal_garage> hi John!
[16:30:02] <danimal_garage> ready for paint?
[16:30:40] <jbunch> Im sitting in hawaii waiting for a ride to san diego on a destroyer.
[16:30:50] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: what, your machine cuts the sheet ferritic steel to cover laptops' hardware? ;)
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[16:31:29] <danimal_garage> jbunch, you're stationed in SD?
[16:31:37] <danimal_garage> or you're going to be?
[16:31:59] <jbunch> no my son is im it for the ride
[16:32:06] <danimal_garage> ah cool
[16:32:09] <danimal_garage> i'm in SD
[16:32:19] <mazafaka> santa-domingo?
[16:32:41] <jbunch> cool im hillsboro or
[16:32:42] <danimal_garage> San Diego
[16:33:09] <mazafaka> oh :O
[16:34:12] <jbunch> i will be in san diego for one day and fly home
[16:34:47] <danimal_garage> that sucks!
[16:34:54] <danimal_garage> weather is nice here right now
[16:37:26] <jbunch> weather is good here in Hawaii. spending time ordering parts for my lathe conversion to emc
[16:39:36] <mazafaka> but lathe is already CNC, or just "CNC-ready"?
[16:39:56] <tom3p> mazafaka, maybe mu metal http://www.magnetic-shield.com/index.html
[16:40:08] <mazafaka> maybe, who knows
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[16:42:48] <mazafaka> this steel is rather the iron itself, than a mix of ferrum & carbon & whatever added.
[16:42:55] <jbunch> yam with a lathemaster conersion. currently using ah ha software with stepper . moving back to servo controls with velocity drives. motors have tachs that are not being used now.
[16:45:29] <jbunch> lathemate from anilam
[16:47:05] <mazafaka> a key for chuck is the lathemate number one, right comrade?
[16:47:14] <mazafaka> ;)
[16:47:27] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[16:48:13] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: sometimes
[16:49:07] <mazafaka> yeah
[16:49:20] <Loetmichel> but most of the time it is copper foil, damping mesh and brass/tinned steel covers
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[16:51:18] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
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[16:51:47] <IchGuckLive> obama just ordert Pizza over the iss ! not quite a jock
[16:51:52] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: and a lot of prototypes for new hardware
[16:52:23] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: I once did it with regular CRT monitor and its picture became good and didn't fear of the cell phone laying on it and having an incoming call, but had to degauss it very often, could do it one time a minute, with 'Exit' button on it.
[16:53:20] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: one of our monitors: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12004
[16:53:23] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: you're cool then. :) Although already old. ;) Not tom cruze, but harrison ford - alike
[16:53:25] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11987
[16:54:25] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: this "secret" monitor is seen at some other photos
[16:55:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11372 <- harddisk-cage for a raid system, whch the customer had broken xx times by screwing the lid tooo tight for the bus-backplane
[16:55:28] <mazafaka> Throw a picture with Pamela Anderson into that set of photos and you'll prevent any information leak through industrial intelligence
[16:55:44] <Loetmichel> so i have made a spring loaded handle do get rid of that prolem
[16:56:24] <mazafaka> what if add a stripe, contouring the display and being perpendicular to it?
[16:56:26] <Loetmichel> nothing there which is not granted by our safety guard
[16:58:02] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: the monitor isnt secret
[16:58:17] <Loetmichel> just the things which are displayed on it ;-)
[16:59:26] <mazafaka> or maybe secret, or maybe even 'secmon retitor' ;)
[17:00:20] <Loetmichel> its a commercial 24" TFT
[17:01:30] <Loetmichel> just removed the plastic shell and replaced it with 1mm galvanized steel and a micromesh glass in front of the TFT. so it doesent radiate any information
[17:01:33] <mazafaka> So, http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12004 shows up the blue rectagonal something. This reminds me of Rembrand's something-square thingie. The only difference is maybe a colour and that decoration at the left. Is it a picture?
[17:02:00] <Loetmichel> dont mock me
[17:02:12] <mazafaka> it radiates a little, anyway
[17:02:28] <Loetmichel> onjy VERY shortwaved
[17:02:34] <Loetmichel> about some thz ;-)
[17:03:02] <mazafaka> but it looks good
[17:06:30] <mazafaka> I saw some price lists this morning. There are LAthes offered with repeatability of 0.020 mm and precision of 0.035 mm, with the speed 5 to 5000 mm/min.
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[17:07:56] <mazafaka> Why are they so rough, not precise? Is it common for lathes?
[17:09:28] <IchGuckLive> mazafaka: cheep is not god
[17:09:46] <mazafaka> cheap ones?
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[17:10:11] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: that is about one tenth of the precision they will have ich you are turning onm them
[17:10:46] <Loetmichel> s/ich/if
[17:11:00] <mazafaka> yeah, i would sacrifice it for a cutter's state, but
[17:11:37] <mazafaka> but... butt will walk a lot to understand why
[17:12:17] <mazafaka> how square pathes can be tightened? why aren't they triangles?
[17:13:03] <syyl> what kind of lathes are those?
[17:13:07] <syyl> chinese?
[17:13:16] <mazafaka> i don't know, maybe
[17:15:28] <mazafaka> they're named in a somewhat Russian manner, but they're foreign I think.
[17:16:04] <syyl> got a link=
[17:16:05] <syyl> ?
[17:16:29] <mazafaka> wait
[17:18:32] <mazafaka> no, i can not find the link.
[17:23:19] <mazafaka> This one for USD 50K has repeatability 0.003 and precision 0.01 http://www.rustan.ru/t_252_16a20f3.htm (those price at the morning could have wrong numbers)
[17:24:28] <syyl> for a "cheap" one take a look at haas
[17:27:42] <mazafaka> HAAS is exactly cheap, i already ordering one ;)
[17:28:20] <syyl> realy?
[17:28:33] <syyl> friend of mine has a tl2 lathe and is one happy guy with it :D
[17:28:51] <mazafaka> rely-ingly, relaying it on 50 to 500 years, saving money.
[17:29:07] <syyl> oh :D
[17:29:22] <mazafaka> young and poor, pure sex!
[17:29:42] <mazafaka> adult women love this.
[17:29:54] <syyl> ;)
[17:30:12] <mazafaka> (but i think they just miss of light weight)
[17:32:17] <mazafaka> *missing of the ..
[17:33:05] <IchGuckLive> mazafaka: this haas http://haascnc.com/lang/home.asp?intLanguageCode=1033 or the Chinise one
[17:33:59] <IchGuckLive> prices http://haascnc.com/lang/LATHE/LATHE_PRICE_TL.asp?intLanguageCode=1033#CNCLatheTreePrice
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[17:51:06] <mazafaka> ich bin guck: the imaginery one
[17:52:36] <robin_> anonimasu, seems the Perske is ceramic bearings and a rebuild is £1800 (2200 eur) :(
[17:53:32] <mazafaka> just imagine it as 22 Eur x 100 times.
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[17:58:26] <anonimasu> robin_: how many hours do you have on your spindle?
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[18:38:33] <mazafaka> 12 or 24 maybe.
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[18:41:38] <anonimasu> mazafaka: then you better contact the place you bought it at
[18:42:50] <anonimasu> -_-
[18:42:56] <anonimasu> wrong person
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[18:45:43] <mazafaka> Sorry, should have been written write "12 AM/PM or 24" instead
[19:03:03] <robin_> anonimasu, unknown hours, it was secondhand
[19:03:43] <robin_> anonimasu, can't complain really, the router was cheap enough
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[19:41:39] <tom3p> hal_input is invoked with loadusr, but joy_handle is invoked with loadrt... can someone explain loadrt vs loadusr?
[19:41:56] <tom3p> bothof the above get a joystick connected to emc2
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[19:42:51] <tom3p> i guess hal_input is user space becuz its usb? ( i>said< it was a guess ;)
[19:44:44] <anonimasu> psha: are you there?
[19:45:05] * anonimasu is trying to do serial communication with bytes in python
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[19:51:06] <tom3p> maybe... if its really a byte ( 8bit pkt) look at the classic python bit-ops(<< >> ! ^ & ~) , if its an arbitrary bit stream ( say 11 or 12 bits pkts) look at pyserial or python-bitstring
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[19:59:23] <psha> anonimasu: for a short time
[20:00:09] <anonimasu> the serial stuff in python does not give the corrct stuff when trying to send bytes with it
[20:00:18] <anonimasu> got a example or a idea how to make that work
[20:00:32] <anonimasu> im sending the same raw data as i am from my windows code
[20:00:33] <cpresser> anonimasu: i got an example... searching for it now...
[20:00:35] <anonimasu> and from my terminal app
[20:04:14] <cpresser> anonimasu: http://pastebin.com/EeUg6HkA
[20:05:04] <psha> anonimasu: probably invalid settings (speed, bits, flow control)
[20:05:27] <anonimasu> nope
[20:05:34] <anonimasu> I get response but I get a error due to checksum
[20:05:36] <psha> past example
[20:05:42] <psha> paste
[20:07:15] <psha> probably you have bug in checksam impl?
[20:07:19] <psha> checsksum
[20:07:20] <anonimasu> no
[20:07:26] <anonimasu> i didnt implement im sending a known string
[20:07:48] <psha> example please
[20:08:11] <anonimasu> one second
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[20:09:55] <anonimasu> http://pastebin.com/U2P2FLyk
[20:10:56] <anonimasu> i get checksum error
[20:11:09] <anonimasu> but the checksum is precomputed by my other routine that i wrote that works 100% of the time
[20:11:20] <anonimasu> and it's the same message as I've sent from my terminal app
[20:15:58] <psha> hm, why so long serial initialization?
[20:16:20] <anonimasu> i dont know, just read a example
[20:16:26] <psha> s = serial.Serial(tty)
[20:16:26] <psha> s.setTimeout(timeout)
[20:16:29] <anonimasu> but I need th stopbits and all
[20:16:31] <mazafaka> psha: http://www.motobratva.ru/blogs/izh-yupiter-4-peredelannyj.html
[20:16:34] <psha> i've two lines and happy :)
[20:16:44] <psha> you may add them as params to Serial
[20:17:31] <psha> and also i don't understand purpose of __init__ function...
[20:17:44] <psha> run it with 'ipython' and check 's' variable
[20:17:51] <psha> i bet you have incorrect settings on it
[20:18:07] <psha> and now it's time to sleep
[20:18:08] <psha> sorry
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[20:27:59] <anonimasu> it mathces but the port wont send it out that way
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[20:51:51] <danimal_garage> hi
[20:52:20] <andypugh> ho
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[20:54:49] <danimal_garage> how goes itr
[20:55:21] <andypugh> I am delving into the murky world of invariate TSC
[20:55:53] <tom3p> andypugh the comp now works a treat after opening up MIN_FERROR, it will lurch a full2" still respecting the stepgen's acc & maxvel
[20:56:32] <tom3p> (oughtta work with servos too)
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[20:56:43] <andypugh> "Lurch" sounds bad. Try "Adjust" :-)
[20:57:06] <tom3p> looking at it looks like lurch ( shocking )
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[21:28:45] <anonimasu> ffs.. how cna the goddamn serial component not work.
[21:30:11] <andypugh> Pixies.
[21:30:28] <anonimasu> :(
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[21:30:41] <andypugh> realtime or userspace?
[21:30:50] <anonimasu> userspace
[21:31:08] <andypugh> Ah, gremlins then. Pixies only effect realtime.
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[21:32:10] <tom3p> can you use the same tools to do other serial comm? ( maybe isolate the difficulty to the encoder comm, but ensure all else works )
[21:33:16] <archivist_emc> serial is a bugger to get working if you ignore certain basics
[21:33:28] <anonimasu> im setting up it up as in windows
[21:33:30] <anonimasu> same config's
[21:33:33] <anonimasu> from python
[21:33:36] <anonimasu> and it sends the wrong data
[21:34:03] <tom3p> yes, can you do any linux serial com using these tools?
[21:34:37] <archivist_emc> or you have forgotten to use the handshakes and are not synchronised
[21:34:43] <andypugh> How wrong? Totally mad wrong?
[21:34:46] <anonimasu> I dont know of any serial program for linux that lets me do hexadecimal communication
[21:35:20] <tom3p> it had an ugly icon.. and name...
[21:35:26] <archivist_emc> the data has no relation to the method, hex, ascii it does not matter
[21:35:30] <robin_> what do you mean by "hexadecimal communication"
[21:35:41] <andypugh> I once spent days struggling with something before I realised that the chip sent MSB first, and the port expected LSB first. It makes the data look totally random.
[21:36:21] <anonimasu> raw binary data
[21:36:25] <robin_> oh right
[21:36:29] <andypugh> The hm2_7i43 driver has a chunk of code for bit reversal, if you want one.
[21:36:30] <archivist_emc> a scope or serail analyser helps
[21:36:42] <anonimasu> I have one already
[21:37:05] <robin_> just use a bit of Perl dood :)
[21:37:25] <robin_> or C or ...
[21:37:33] <anonimasu> I have c# that im porting to python but I cant get the basic serial stuff working
[21:37:42] <anonimasu> the rest is straightforard just moving code
[21:37:49] <robin_> eeew python
[21:37:57] <robin_> one lang I have avoided
[21:38:03] <anonimasu> well, it has hal bindings..
[21:38:05] <anonimasu> that's the reason to use it
[21:38:06] <robin_> that and ruby
[21:38:10] <archivist_emc> python is at the bottom of the tree below perl
[21:38:15] <anonimasu> so I dont have to cludge in c to get some bytes out the port
[21:38:21] <anonimasu> and I can directly set hal pins
[21:38:22] <anonimasu> and parms
[21:38:26] <robin_> fair enough
[21:39:19] <anonimasu> and i dont have a null modem cable around
[21:39:26] <anonimasu> but I have 2 serial ports tho
[21:39:48] <robin_> i have two cats
[21:39:52] <robin_> is that similar?
[21:40:09] <archivist_emc> I need a new pussy.....cat
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[21:40:39] <robin_> when the time is right, one will find you
[21:44:07] <danimal_garage> my virgin ears
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[21:54:48] <tom3p> it looks like lots of people had probs with python serial xfer of hex codes, but the python-serial group seems to handle it
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[21:57:41] <andypugh> Well, you do need to make sure you have 8 data bits, that's for sure.
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[21:59:18] <archivist_emc> hammer work ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_LA_R4ifYk&feature=player_embedded
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[22:02:11] <danimal_garage> dammit my toolchanger went to hell
[22:05:11] <andypugh> Love the bit with half a dozen blokes hitting the same bit of meatl.
[22:05:34] <andypugh> And you can see what a breakthrough the steam hammer was.
[22:08:44] <danimal_garage> andypugh: are you in the UK?
[22:08:59] <andypugh> Aye
[22:09:24] <danimal_garage> is newcastle decent beer over there?
[22:09:40] <danimal_garage> or is it like our budweiser (piss)?
[22:09:45] <andypugh> Newcastle Brown?
[22:09:52] <andypugh> It's a lot better than Bud
[22:09:56] <danimal_garage> yea
[22:10:02] <danimal_garage> well thats not saying much lol
[22:10:15] <andypugh> But it is a bit of a unique thing.
[22:10:17] <danimal_garage> i just got some newcastle werewolf, not too bad
[22:10:26] <andypugh> Almost not really considered a beer.
[22:10:59] <andypugh> Clearly it _is_ a beer, but it doesn't seem to live in the same niche as the bitters.
[22:11:32] <danimal_garage> have you had the werewolf blood red ale?
[22:13:12] <andypugh> No, never even heard of it.
[22:14:09] <danimal_garage> ah i just found it in the grocery store
[22:14:26] <andypugh> Does it have the blue star logo?
[22:14:51] <danimal_garage> it has a gold star with a werewolf in the center
[22:15:02] <danimal_garage> it's made by newcastle
[22:15:10] <andypugh> Yeah, just found a mention of it.
[22:15:34] <danimal_garage> it's better than the brown ale IMO
[22:16:06] <archivist_emc> I used to be a newcastle brown drinker in my youth :)
[22:16:19] <andypugh> Not that fond of "Dog" meself. Spitfire, Tanglefoot, Pedigree are more my style.
[22:16:53] <danimal_garage> i get it when it's on sale for cheaper than anything else halfway decent
[22:16:59] <archivist_emc> Pedigree being made 5 miles from me
[22:16:59] <danimal_garage> not my first pick
[22:17:13] <danimal_garage> nice
[22:17:21] <danimal_garage> do you guys have Stone over there?
[22:17:22] <andypugh> Black Sheep, Riggwelter...
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[22:17:50] <danimal_garage> Stone IPA, Stone arrogant bastard, etc
[22:18:09] <archivist_emc> we know how to name beers over here
[22:18:22] <archivist_emc> Dog Bolter
[22:18:34] <archivist_emc> Old Engine Oil
[22:18:41] <andypugh> I think Tanglefoot is the best name.
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[22:19:34] <danimal_garage> we have a ton of breweries around here
[22:19:55] <danimal_garage> it's like microbrew central
[22:20:16] <toastydeath> that's awesome
[22:20:18] <toastydeath> we have like, two
[22:20:27] <toastydeath> er, well, brew-pubs
[22:20:38] <danimal_garage> toastydeath: i only have two or 3 i actually go to
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[22:21:08] <danimal_garage> Stone is a few miles from me, so is Lost Abbey, and Mother Earth and Iron Fist
[22:21:12] <toastydeath> i've only been to one, i'm fairly new at the bar scene
[22:21:30] <danimal_garage> i go to those because they're bicycle riding distance
[22:21:45] <danimal_garage> and i'm typically in no place to drive afterwards
[22:21:49] <toastydeath> i wish that was true but around here you can still get a DUI charge for biking
[22:22:02] <danimal_garage> same here, but they'd have to catch me :)
[22:22:05] <toastydeath> hahaha
[22:22:07] <toastydeath> OFF ROAD
[22:22:11] <toastydeath> that's a good point
[22:22:16] <toastydeath> and our bike cop is daytime only
[22:22:16] <toastydeath> hmm
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[22:22:54] <danimal_garage> i got pulled over on my bike last week
[22:23:36] <danimal_garage> he looked at me and said nevermind and sped off
[22:23:55] <andypugh> You must look like trouble, but not in a dangerous way.
[22:24:09] <danimal_garage> na, they thought i was Mexican at first
[22:24:17] <danimal_garage> figured i was an illegal
[22:24:34] <danimal_garage> they do that all the time around here
[22:24:49] <danimal_garage> big illegal immigrant problems here
[22:25:25] <danimal_garage> since i'm 40 miles from Mexico at most
[22:26:10] <andypugh> I went to Mexico once. I liked it.
[22:26:42] <danimal_garage> i've never been there aside from Tijuana, which doesnt really count
[22:27:10] <danimal_garage> too many gang issues down there now
[22:27:38] <danimal_garage> the odds of getting kidnapped or robbed are pretty high
[22:28:15] <andypugh> Well, I am not counting Cancun (which is where we were) either. But inland in Yucatan was nice.
[22:30:18] <danimal_garage> dammit my toolchanger is really screwed
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[22:30:48] <danimal_garage> somehow it got air in the hyraullic cyl
[22:31:16] <danimal_garage> bbl
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[22:35:08] <factor> so far so good , my urethane gear mold is holding out
[22:35:12] <factor> looks good.
[22:35:37] <factor> I pulled out my original gear and the center hole stuck, but streched way out and held
[22:35:41] <factor> wont do that again.
[22:35:57] <factor> I did that with the powder hobby lobby mold and broke the center hole each time
[22:36:11] <factor> takes 24 hours for the urethane to set
[22:36:59] <factor> powder 20 mins but well worth the days wait
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[22:39:01] <factor> thanks for the advice to all who talked about the urethane molding
[22:42:47] <factor> Now to try to make a gear form the mold.
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