#emc | Logs for 2011-07-14

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[00:17:18] <andypugh> It took a bit of trial and error, but I am quite pleased with this: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,24/id,11492/lang,english/#11508
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[01:58:26] <Guest271> anyone know how to set open file to .nc instead or .ngc?
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[01:59:45] <Guest271> anyone know how to set open file extention to .nc instead of .ngc?
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[02:01:38] <jdhNC> check .axisrc?
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[05:19:39] <jbunch> reading thru the integraters manual it looks like the 7i43 from mesa does not support gpio. Is this correct.
[05:25:53] <dgarr> doesnt sound right -- http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/2.2/html/man/man9/m7i43_hm2.9.html
[05:26:34] <dgarr> The HostMot2 firmware provides encoders, PWM generators, step/dir generators, and general purpose I/O pins (GPIOs).
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[06:19:52] <jbunch> when using the 7i33 card the doc points out inverbage and a table 0 gpio
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[06:43:59] <nicko> ello all
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[07:40:52] <Loetmichel> moin
[07:41:07] <Loetmichel> a/moin/mornin'
[07:42:06] <psha[work]> :))
[07:42:11] <psha[work]> morning
[07:44:15] <Loetmichel> only english channel, /amsg is not so good ;-)
[07:44:24] <Loetmichel> + on this server
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[08:46:31] <Justin_CNC> Good evening
[08:46:46] <Justin_CNC> Is anyone familiar with setting up a gecko g540 with optical limit switches?
[08:52:08] <archivist_emc> ? gecko g540 and optical limit switches are separate problems just ask the real question
[08:59:57] <Justin_CNC> Does the output pin from the optical limit switch need to be pulled high through a resistor?
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[09:07:35] <archivist_emc> depends on the input you are connecting too, probably yes
[09:09:39] <Justin_CNC> ok, I will try it
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[09:23:20] <Maxxtro> archivist: are you here?
[09:23:57] <archivist_emc> I am but just finished my coffee break was about to go aoutside, does it work now?
[09:24:45] <Maxxtro> if i set the acceleration down to maybe 1 it works, yes.
[09:25:17] <Maxxtro> but theres a problem with that, too
[09:25:29] <Maxxtro> but ill ask you later, no problem
[09:25:43] <archivist_emc> do you have enough voltage
[09:26:46] <Maxxtro> yes, for sure. theyre only 5v motors
[09:27:21] <archivist_emc> still you can run them on 30v just set the current correctly
[09:27:49] <Maxxtro> okay ive set the voltage to about 20v actually
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[09:29:14] <archivist_emc> dont skimp on current, steppers do get warm
[09:30:09] <Maxxtro> well im always having an eye on the temperature and the motors only get as warm as my hands maybe
[09:30:34] <archivist_emc> mine make you let go :)
[09:31:04] <Maxxtro> okay :D
[09:31:10] <archivist_emc> and that is bolted to the rotary as a heatsink
[09:32:00] <archivist_emc> also a bipolar driver is much better than unipolar
[09:32:12] <Maxxtro> mine has a plastic gear wheel
[09:32:53] <Maxxtro> as it uses a toothbelt for the linear movement
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[09:36:04] <Maxxtro> however that may be, my problem with the slow acceleration is that the laser has to move with a constant speed from the beginning to the end
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[10:36:07] <archivist_emc> you have to accelerate from 0 to your set speed then constant then decelerate, no such thing as instant speed change
[10:44:29] <Maxxtro> what do you mean? do you mean that there isnt a feature like instant speed change?
[10:45:56] <archivist_emc> its basic physics...back to school for you
[10:47:28] <Maxxtro> yeah thats true but i meant something different
[10:48:12] <Loetmichel> Maxxtro: IF your steppers can cope with it you can set the ramps to fastest acceleration
[10:48:25] <Loetmichel> so you have near instant speed change
[10:48:53] <Maxxtro> emc makes the progress of acceleration really slow when i set it to 1; but when i use a higher value im back at the beginning and the motors wont start at all
[10:49:33] <Maxxtro> the strange thing is: with another software which runs on windows (its just to test the controllers) they accelerate pretty fast...
[10:49:55] <Loetmichel> hmm, thats strange
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[10:50:40] <Loetmichel> whrer do you set the acceleration to 1 (one?) ?
[10:50:44] <Loetmichel> where
[10:51:05] <Maxxtro> in the machine.ini
[10:51:39] <Maxxtro> default and maximum acc are set to 1
[10:51:59] <Maxxtro> and further downward ive done the same for each axis
[10:52:40] <Loetmichel> hmm, i am in the company right now, no EMC to look at hand. I THINK there was a acceleration wich much different values than 1 or 2
[10:53:16] <Loetmichel> maybe you hhave wrong values or wrong unit?
[10:53:16] <Maxxtro> yes normally it is set to 50
[10:53:59] <Loetmichel> sorry, boss called: lunch time... maybe later?
[10:54:09] <Maxxtro> yes
[10:54:14] <Maxxtro> have a nice meal
[10:54:19] <Maxxtro> see you later
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[12:10:44] <mazafaka> How to add the list of *.deb files (200 mb overall) to compile emc-sim and also HeeksCAD on Linux Mint 11? Or maybe it isn't really needed if we can give ahnt on it right here ;)
[12:14:19] <psha[work]> apt-get build-dep emc2
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[12:20:48] <mazafaka> psha[work]: from the folder where the 'configure' file is located?
[12:21:06] <cpresser> mazafaka: freom everywhere
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[12:21:18] <mazafaka> psha[work]: explain, please. Never knew of 'apt-get build-dep emc2'
[12:21:31] <mazafaka> cpresser: but how apt-get will know what emc2 is?
[12:21:50] <cpresser> "build-dep" automatically pulls all build-dependencies listed in the emc2-source package
[12:22:41] <mazafaka> cpresser: how it finds the directory to where I extracted the 'emc2_2.4.4.tar.gz' ??
[12:22:43] <cpresser> mazafaka: ofc you need to have sources providing the emc2 package
[12:23:01] <cpresser> it does _only_ work on debian packages, not on tarballs
[12:23:43] <cpresser> using a debian-bases linux you wont have to play around with tarballs. just apt-get source and dpkg-buildpackage
[12:23:54] <mazafaka> E.g. $HOME/emc2-2.4.4/src ??
[12:24:06] <mazafaka> hah, I'm about tarballs
[12:24:58] * mazafaka plays with these so-called balls or something :)
[12:25:03] <psha[work]> mazafaka: add linuxcnc.org repository to the list, run apt-get update, run apt-get build-dep emc2
[12:25:19] <mazafaka> will it build the simulator?
[12:25:23] <cpresser> then apt-get build-dep wont work; unless you add emc2 somehow to your apt-sources
[12:25:27] <psha[work]> it will install build deps
[12:25:34] <psha[work]> it won't build anything
[12:25:43] <mazafaka> oh, ok
[12:26:08] <mazafaka> it's way too complicated. Decent make files give a hint on what is needed for the tarballs.
[12:26:16] <cpresser> running dpkg-buildpackage in the debian-source dir (pulled via apt-get source) will build the realtime and sim emc2 package
[12:26:40] <psha[work]> mazafaka: Makefiles _never_ give hints on what's needed
[12:27:07] <mazafaka> they're asking of gettext and glib.h and so...
[12:27:34] <psha[work]> mazafaka: Makefiles?! don't mess makefiles, automake and autoconf
[12:27:48] <cpresser> perhaps there is some infos about dependencies in the makefile
[12:27:52] <psha[work]> ./configure (part of autoconf) usually check for packages
[12:27:54] <mazafaka> uh, i do not differentiate between them...
[12:28:08] <cpresser> but you may just open the debian-control-file and read the build-depends line :)
[12:28:13] <psha[work]> so if you don't - add linuxcnc.org to sources list and run apt-get build-dep
[12:28:32] <psha[work]> probably you won't need to compile anything yourself
[12:28:46] <psha[work]> unless you try to change/fix something
[12:29:12] <cpresser> http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc2-dev.git/blob/refs/heads/master:/debian/control.in
[12:29:12] <mazafaka> i have compiled emc and had to compile heekscad with build-in heekscnc plugin
[12:29:43] <psha[work]> why emc2 pacakges are not suitable for you?
[12:30:04] <psha[work]> 10.04 packages are working nice even on debian/5.0
[12:30:10] <psha[work]> i suspect they'll work on mint too
[12:33:37] <mazafaka> i hear about such packages at a very first time, that's why.
[12:34:54] <mazafaka> hey, with what type of machines you actually work?
[12:34:54] <cpresser> you should really bother reading more about the debian package system. it saves you a lot of work
[12:35:00] <mazafaka> cpresser: and psha[work] ??
[12:35:37] <mazafaka> cpresser: yeah, but heekscad, for example, uses cmake and had to be compiled.
[12:35:55] <mazafaka> EMC2 is compiled as simulator within about a minute
[12:36:36] <cpresser> mazafaka: seeing this: http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/source/browse/trunk/debian/control
[12:36:45] <mazafaka> there are several EMC2's on my computer, with '--enable-run-in-place' option. So it offers more flexibility and stability
[12:36:46] <cpresser> heekscad already ships with debian packaging information
[12:37:01] <psha[work]> mazafaka: until you make 'make install' it's ok to use RIP
[12:37:20] <mazafaka> What is RIP
[12:37:24] <psha[work]> after you've made 'make install' you've dirty system with lot of untracked files
[12:37:27] <psha[work]> run-in-place
[12:37:33] <psha[work]> not installed version runned localy
[12:37:42] <psha[work]> you'd better read some docs really
[12:37:48] <psha[work]> it'll save you lot of time
[12:38:04] <mazafaka> i exactly need a not-installed one which run localy, several of them
[12:38:10] <cpresser> right, if you really need more than one installation of emc2 on your machine, using tarballs&make may be better
[12:38:37] <mazafaka> in the same home directory. What if I mess the configs? :) I can use another RIP version
[12:38:50] <psha[work]> mazafaka: you'd really read docs...
[12:38:51] <mazafaka> this is... yes.
[12:38:56] <psha[work]> configs are not bound to installed version
[12:39:12] <psha[work]> but i don't see any reasons to have different installes of emc
[12:39:14] <mazafaka> cpresser: but I searched for heekscad.deb and din't found it
[12:39:16] <psha[work]> unless you are developing it
[12:39:44] <mazafaka> psha[work]: i may corrupt some files with my amendations
[12:39:47] <psha[work]> or need some bleeding edge features for experiments and released stable version for main work
[12:40:01] <psha[work]> mazafaka: no, you may corrupt only local configuration files
[12:40:04] <cpresser> mazafaka: try building it yourself! check out svn, then cd to the dir and type 'dpkg-buildpackage'
[12:40:14] <mazafaka> cpresser: that's what i did
[12:40:18] <cpresser> it will tell you about missing dependencies
[12:40:41] <mazafaka> oh, didn't know of it
[12:40:48] <cpresser> when you are done, you got some .deb files you can install via dpkg
[12:41:06] <psha[work]> it's a) not possible to corrupt system files with user permissions b) you may always run apt-get install --reinstall emc2-sim
[12:41:11] <mazafaka> it's convenient
[12:41:18] <cpresser> that way you wont have to use "make install".
[12:41:35] <mazafaka> yeah
[12:41:36] <cpresser> it really saves a lot of trouble :)
[12:42:28] <mazafaka> Last time I needed it I had no time to read docs, working simulator was needed
[12:42:46] <mazafaka> it was several years ago.
[12:43:14] <psha[work]> mazafaka: so instead of adding 1 line to sources.list and running two commands (apt-get update; apt-get install emc2-sim) you've choose to compile it yourself?
[12:43:18] <psha[work]> pretty dumb
[12:44:38] * cpresser just remebers what may happen if you let makefiles fiddle with your system: https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6#diff-1
[12:44:40] <mazafaka> well, i had to pay 6 roubles for one megabyte of data and usually copied *.deb from /var/cache/apt/archives/partial/ and tried to save money and time
[12:45:08] <psha[work]> apt-get install -d emc2-sim somewhere else, then copy
[12:45:37] <mazafaka> there also was an error and emc2-sim was actually building emc2 realtime, couple of years ago
[12:45:48] <psha[work]> build-deps for compiling yourself weight much more then binary package of emc2
[12:45:58] <psha[work]> and thus cost more
[12:46:26] <mazafaka> hah, installation scripts with .sh extension which can fetch whatever from the Internet are the best
[12:46:48] <psha[work]> and get system polluted with untracked file? thanks, not for me
[12:47:08] <psha[work]> however emc install script just adds sources line and runs apt-get
[12:47:27] <mazafaka> well, there was some stuff in the system already. And EMC2 was just one another program to try to compile.
[12:48:18] <psha[work]> mazafaka: i know that you'll try to prove that you'd better to shoot yourself in the leg then read docs
[12:48:20] <mazafaka> People from #emc were very heartfelt, and I decide to learn how to be an electronic MC. Later I realised it's an enhanced machine controller... :)
[12:48:50] <mazafaka> psha[work]: i have no time to read docs on Linux because I already read other docs.
[12:49:52] <psha[work]> mazafaka: as i already mentioned readin one (1) page on the web - which is first one on relative google query will save you both time and money
[12:50:00] <mazafaka> for example, safety technique for power plant is at least a small book, rules for working at height is another small book.
[12:50:34] <psha[work]> however you think that building something from scratch (gathering all kinds of related issues) is better for you - that's ok
[12:51:33] <mazafaka> heh, I also built python to install emc, you bet!
[12:52:23] <psha[work]> but for me - with nearly 8 years of professinal linux development (i'm doint it for living) - packages are better in most circumstances
[12:52:44] <mazafaka> off course they are better.
[12:53:15] <psha[work]> building python? you're crazy...
[12:53:59] <psha[work]> i've done some backporting with python, but building whole - no, what for?
[12:54:10] <mazafaka> to save money!
[12:54:14] <psha[work]> dumb
[12:54:24] <mazafaka> i had its tarball on CD
[12:54:26] <psha[work]> binary package has nearly same size
[12:54:35] <mazafaka> and saved about 4.5 MB
[12:54:56] <mazafaka> it would cost couple of ice-creams
[12:57:16] <mazafaka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2VpQONRwcE
[12:57:30] <mazafaka> How I'm working
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[12:58:52] <mazafaka> If only someone would implement turning into HeeksCNC, it would be nice.
[13:00:09] <mazafaka> I wanted to ask one thing.
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[13:01:07] <mazafaka> I sometimes tell to people that people abroad just save money on commercial software and by a better monitor. Is it true? What common pixel resolution would such monitor have?
[13:04:40] <mazafaka> OK, if I would have a simpler life, I would read these docs - it's easy to do it. Everything around was a bit complicated - and this reading of the docs at a great time would arrange anything. I would just stare at the monitor for longer...
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[13:07:00] <mazafaka> skunkworks: free to comment the work on lathe? tried my best http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2VpQONRwcE
[13:08:18] <mazafaka> I'll go take a ride on the MTB
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[13:23:46] <mazafaka> emptied trash bin and talked to neighbours instead. Attempt #2.
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[13:38:16] <mazafaka> Can't wait till the `Preparation H', just going there, on the streets!
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[14:52:29] <skunkworks> mazafaka: looks neat - nice work
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[15:14:33] <ajvazn> i installed emc as described at emc web site, now i would like to compile the rtai kernel from source - i need all the libraries because i would like to write some kernel module and i am receiving "linux/module.h: No such file or directory"
[15:15:16] <ajvazn> are there also some easy instructions how to do that*
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[15:18:04] <ajvazn> i found some instruction: http://hart.sourceforge.net/rtai_installation_10_04.html but i am not sure is this also the binary only or not
[15:22:33] <mazafaka> skunkworks: are you here yet? Will it cut with this edge which has an angle? I myself also made square cutters, but the one of such width may touch the body of the detail..
[15:26:21] <mazafaka> ajvazn: something like kernel-rtai (RTAI version of kernel) is available in Ubuntu's repositories, and also comes with Ubuntustudio (distribution or just megapackage for usual Ubuntu). I once . . .
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[15:27:00] <mazafaka> I once . . . installed this to laptop and there were mltiple choices what version of kernel to boot (boot menu appeared).
[15:27:47] <mazafaka> So, RTAI didn't work on my laptop, but worked onto usual PC for gamers (despite its particular hardware).
[15:28:27] <mazafaka> I mean, such RTAI still didn't work on *my* laptop, so does EMC's LiveCD.
[15:28:55] <mazafaka> It was couple of years ago.
[15:30:23] <mazafaka> RTAI versions of Ubuntu Kernel come with Ubuntustudio.org, for example. (But from version to version, it is either RTAI, or usual.)
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[15:47:01] <cpresser> ajvazn: why dont you just install the kernel-headers? thats way more easy than compiling an RTAI-Kernel yourself
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[15:52:46] <ajvazn> How can i do that?
[15:54:31] <jdhNC> sudo apt-get install linux-headers-$(uname -r) perhaps?
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[16:05:33] <Connor1> Okay, who was it that had made a automatic switch for their vacuum using a hall effect sensor ?
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[16:20:27] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[16:22:42] <jdhNC> connor: not me, but what's the problem?
[16:27:48] <mazafaka> gimme something you can't un-de-rsta-n' / A working just killing, man /
[16:28:08] <mazafaka> rage against the machine
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[16:48:54] <Connor1> jdhNC: I got my hall effect sensor in.. and hooked it up and it works fine with a magnet. So, I cut a slit in a choke ring and ran the AC wire through it, and then put the hall effect sensor in the slot.. and I see NO effect.
[16:48:59] Connor1 is now known as Connor
[16:49:39] <jdhNC> did you try re-orienting the sensor vs. coil?
[16:49:55] <Connor> I flipped it around if that's what you mean.
[16:50:05] <jdhNC> it's an analog out sensor?
[16:50:15] <Connor> let me check my IRC log file.. brb
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[16:52:20] <Connor> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/hall/Hall1.jpg
[16:52:26] <Connor> thats it.
[16:52:29] <Connor> Tom_ITX
[16:52:58] <Connor> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/hall/HallSensor3.jpg
[16:53:16] <Connor> using a A1302
[16:53:39] <jdhNC> nifty
[16:54:05] <jdhNC> have you tried it with something higher current?
[16:54:42] <Connor> I had a 60W lamp.. and my volt meter hooked up to it.. didn't change a bit.
[16:54:54] <Connor> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/hall/Hall_Sch.png
[16:55:21] <jdhNC> try a blow dryer or heater?
[16:55:29] <Connor> not yet.
[16:55:54] <Connor> Do I need to wrap the AC around the core? or just run it through it ?
[16:56:22] <jdhNC> I'd think more wraps would be stronger, but..
[16:56:40] <jdhNC> just a plain ferrite coil?
[16:57:06] <Connor> yea from a Radio Shack Toroid Coil
[16:58:01] <Connor> http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/articles/GizmoPicAxeCharger.asp
[16:58:54] <Connor> I managed to get mine cut using a band saw.
[16:58:56] <Connor> wasn't easy.
[16:59:25] <Connor> I'll try with a higher load in a bit.
[16:59:46] <jdhNC> wonder if an inductive load would be different
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[17:07:29] <IchGuckLive> Hi all arround the world
[17:09:17] <alexander> hi
[17:09:28] <mazafaka> 'touch off' changes the corresponding .tbl file?
[17:10:05] <IchGuckLive> mazafaka: only the parameters
[17:10:14] <mazafaka> the offsets?
[17:11:02] <mazafaka> Does it write new offsets and they are left there?
[17:12:23] <IchGuckLive> yes
[17:12:31] <mazafaka> it's smart
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[17:13:51] <IchGuckLive> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_coordinates.html
[17:14:02] <mazafaka> thanks
[17:14:06] <IchGuckLive> mazafaka: look on to the link
[17:14:19] <mazafaka> it's in my mind
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[17:27:26] <mazafaka_> Hey, cpresser and psha I once compiled Qt3 (45 Mb tarball) in 1 GB /dev/shm virtual disk, so the space was not enough and have to compile in $HOME directory
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[18:02:53] <anonimasu> http://ah.io23.net/ul/files/IMAG1511.jpg
[18:03:30] <skunkworks> anonimasu: that looks sexy!
[18:04:19] <anonimasu> it only took 6 hours(to clean the linear scale on the machine, and get everything back togther) then like 15 minutes to cut
[18:04:33] <anonimasu> 100.23mm :)
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[18:06:27] <skunkworks> logger[psha]:
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[18:08:32] <anonimasu> cnc's are only fun whey they work.
[18:08:46] <skunkworks> or your converting them... (I find that fun)
[18:09:24] <anonimasu> indeed
[18:10:02] <anonimasu> it's not as fun when there's a big pile of parts they need to make before they are done
[18:10:21] <anonimasu> :)
[18:11:23] <skunkworks> anonimasu: what machine is that?
[18:13:22] <ssi> I need to come up with some kind of toolchanger for my lathe D:
[18:13:53] <ssi> thinking maybe I need to do an extended X leadscrew and some kind of gang tooling plate
[18:14:17] <ssi> although maybe a turret is a better idea
[18:15:21] <jdhNC> ganged turrets
[18:16:43] <anonimasu> skunkworks: a abene vhf-3 with a heidenhain control
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[18:33:43] <syyl> finding and fixing errors on large cnc machines can get very hard
[18:33:56] <syyl> had some problems with our deckel fp2nc
[18:34:02] <syyl> took me two days
[18:34:08] <jdhNC> yes, debugging your turrets could give you tourettes
[18:34:26] <Jymmm> instantrimshot.com
[18:35:12] <syyl> thats a great site
[18:35:17] <syyl> *bookmarking*
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[19:21:39] <tom3p> is hal-scope 'level' sensitive to data type? i cant move it when triggering from stepgen.c.step ( a bit) but can move it when on axis.n.motor-pos-cmd ( a float )
[19:21:51] <tom3p> stepgen.n.step
[19:22:41] <cradek> yes
[19:22:46] <cradek> for bits, there's no such thing as the level
[19:22:58] <cradek> but you can trigger on rising or falling edge, which are the only two things that make sense
[19:23:12] <tom3p> just rising falling for bits right
[19:23:14] <tom3p> thx
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[19:27:16] <anonimasu> how do i get started on a hal module?
[19:27:20] <anonimasu> what's the best starting point?
[19:28:55] <psha> anonimasu: userspace? or realtime?
[19:29:24] <anonimasu> realtime
[19:29:29] <anonimasu> or userspace..
[19:29:39] <anonimasu> i dont know whichever that will do rs232
[19:30:17] <anonimasu> I dont know if that's even possible with realtime
[19:30:27] <anonimasu> I need to grab commutation data, and offset for homing from my encoders
[19:30:42] <anonimasu> actually, generate a pseudo index pulse....
[19:33:22] <anonimasu> I have working code to grab offsets, but I need a cyclic 10ms call to read out encoder positn
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[19:34:35] <tom3p> anonimasu, are you working in a run-in-place environment?
[19:34:56] <anonimasu> what do you mean?
[19:35:16] <anonimasu> default emc install
[19:35:19] <anonimasu> I didnt install any dev stuff yet
[19:35:36] <psha> anonimasu: userspace is easy to write
[19:35:43] <psha> but there may be some time jitter
[19:35:45] <tom3p> i have the emc that was installed by the live-cd, i also have a parallel version i got with git
[19:35:54] <psha> realtime have guaranteed latency
[19:35:57] <psha> but harder to write
[19:36:08] <anonimasu> how much harder?
[19:36:35] <psha> http://psha.org.ru/cgit/psha/owenio/tree/owen-component-trm151
[19:36:36] <anonimasu> I pretty much need that so that the response will come all the time in the same time
[19:36:41] <psha> simple serial userspace component
[19:37:07] <anonimasu> realtime has to be in c? right
[19:37:09] <psha> what's cost of delay and what's allowed jitter?
[19:37:13] <psha> anonimasu: yes, in C
[19:37:27] <psha> userspace may be written in any language
[19:37:40] <psha> however 10ms is huge timeframe
[19:37:48] <anonimasu> that's the worst case latency of the encoders
[19:38:27] <anonimasu> how do you handle homing with abs encoders anyway?
[19:38:35] <tom3p> begin looking at code, so begin with getting all the dev-tools and source http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_with_EMC2_package_already_installed
[19:38:38] <anonimasu> I mean, I have 2 rev of absolute output
[19:39:49] <anonimasu> with my encoders the question is just how am i able to read it out and make the homing sequence work with it
[19:40:53] <anonimasu> can I check for the home switch to go low and when the machine stops and write the position somewhere
[19:40:59] <tom3p> maybe the ethernet module would show how realtime packet handling could be done http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?ContributedComponents#EtherCAT_Digital_I_O
[19:41:09] <anonimasu> I want as simple as possible
[19:41:26] <anonimasu> perferably userspace since I need to use it for two things, 1, read the commutation data on startup
[19:41:29] <anonimasu> 2, home
[19:41:42] <anonimasu> done when the machine is static
[19:42:30] <anonimasu> so, a encoder polling userspace module
[19:42:58] <anonimasu> that when the index is tripped wait for it to go low, and give a offset to index out
[19:43:34] <anonimasu> realtime handles backing off the switch, and then it waits for the userspace stuff to do it's thing
[19:44:34] <anonimasu> question is now how to do bitwise ops in python..
[19:44:38] <anonimasu> the rest seems easy
[19:45:32] <anonimasu> (I have the code prototyped in c# already)
[19:45:42] <psha> anonimasu: userspace module for homing is probably not best idea
[19:46:46] <tom3p> begin with a comp that reads the index pins, doesnt do crap with it, just sets a pin that you can look at using hal-configuration,
[19:46:46] <tom3p> do that in python, later make the working stuff into realtime
[19:47:15] <tom3p> you'll get to know howto write comps, then how to write your comp
[19:47:52] <anonimasu> cant I make a realtime component that waits for my userspace to do it's thing?
[19:47:54] <anonimasu> after homing?
[19:48:18] <anonimasu> ie, wait for a pin to go low before i can start motion?
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[19:49:34] <anonimasu> or simply hack a line into the homing code to wait for a hal pin to be set, while waiting for data from userspace after homing
[19:50:04] <anonimasu> probably it takes me more then 10ms to load up some file to run or press a key after homing :D
[19:51:25] <anonimasu> tell me if it's a stupid idea, however nice and easy is the best
[19:51:34] <tom3p> the watcher can be rt, but the event just >is< , it isnt userspace, it just happens.
[19:51:35] <tom3p> the watcher can do its job in rt, operate on the event, and effect something in rt
[19:52:05] <anonimasu> hm i dont get what you mean
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[19:52:46] <anonimasu> I mean, since rs285 encoder data is only important twice from turning on i'd rather make it as easy as i can
[19:53:15] <anonimasu> I have c code to set up and write the port already, what's left if to port my checksum stuff into c
[19:53:23] <anonimasu> and the data receive stuff
[19:54:59] <tom3p> well i'm stuck writing some comps right now and had to work from very basic up to get anything running. would a simple monitor of some data help you?
[19:55:12] <anonimasu> yes it would
[19:55:45] <anonimasu> userspace?
[19:55:47] <anonimasu> or realtime
[19:56:02] <anonimasu> only thing is how to do bitwise ops in python that im stuck at
[19:56:02] <anonimasu> :)
[19:56:31] <tom3p> begin looking at supplied comps, and edit one to read one hdwr pin to say a parport or mesa pin, and examine its value with axis 'emc-configuration' panel
[19:56:35] <psha> anonimasu: they are same as in C
[19:56:43] <psha> | & ^ ~
[19:56:50] <anonimasu> what about shifts?
[19:56:51] <anonimasu> <<
[19:56:56] <tom3p> i write realtime comps , at least i loadrt them ;)
[19:56:58] <psha> yes, << and >>
[19:57:03] <anonimasu> nice
[19:57:07] <anonimasu> hehe
[19:57:27] <psha> you may look at some bitwise python code in other files on link i've posted
[19:57:34] <anonimasu> tom3p: yeah it'd helk if you have a really easy one
[19:57:36] <anonimasu> helkp
[19:57:40] <anonimasu> err help..
[19:57:42] <tom3p> do you have the tools needs to write a comp? maybe begin there
[19:57:45] <psha> it's python component to communicate with thermocontroller
[19:57:54] <anonimasu> the basic statemachine stuff
[19:58:24] <psha> but it don't need to be executed in rt, in your case it's probably better to have RT one
[19:58:24] <fragalot> anyone here ever implemented modbus on a PIC18 compiled with the HiTech-C compiler?
[19:58:47] <anonimasu> I wish you could do them in python
[19:58:51] <anonimasu> that would be nice and easy :D
[19:59:01] <anonimasu> tom3p: no, not yet
[19:59:11] <anonimasu> im grabbing the dev stuff you wrote before as soon as the update is done
[20:03:28] <tom3p> heres an inverter you could hack it or use it with halrun and examine it with halmeter/halscope http://pastebin.com/8FwMkvdt
[20:03:53] <tom3p> not difficult, begin simple, read your pins, see the pins change, then build the actions you want and connect results to pins, then see those pins change
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[20:05:21] <tom3p> then you got basics... next, toss it all away and go back to the implementation of of read abso, get emc to know this nonzero start condition at trigger
[20:05:26] <psha> tom3p: it's not good example :(
[20:05:42] <anonimasu> what language is that?
[20:05:43] <tom3p> for 1st comp its good, for abso encoder no
[20:05:58] <anonimasu> it looks very c-ish but not quite
[20:06:05] <psha> since if he wants to communication through serial port i suspect he won't be satisfied with .comp skeleton
[20:06:35] <psha> anonimasu: it's C with special header and with auto generated skeleton
[20:06:46] <tom3p> i agree, i just wanted anonimasu to get something to work rather than work right with something complex
[20:07:08] <psha> tom3p: so it's better to start with userspace first
[20:07:18] <anonimasu> so, I can write my realtime comp to stall the machine after homing..
[20:07:18] <psha> create simple userspace comp, test it and then move to RT if needed
[20:07:31] <anonimasu> then then read data from the userspace code
[20:07:46] <tom3p> psha that not component is rt, and is dead simple, why avoid rt?
[20:07:50] <anonimasu> not optimal, but I want to make chips this year
[20:07:52] <anonimasu> :D
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[20:08:46] <anonimasu> or can i simply hook the home signal through my rt component, and wait for the encoder to give me the data?
[20:09:21] <anonimasu> load offset and flip the pin by my component
[20:09:27] <tom3p> i think it's rt from man 9 not "SYNOPSIS loadrt not [count=N|names=name1[,name2...]]"
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[20:10:10] <anonimasu> posisbly re-route it as limit switch..
[20:11:59] <tom3p> i think you'll find installing the offset will be the challenge , the trigger will be easy (offset ... more like the base )
[20:12:46] <anonimasu> cant i just read the encoder position when the switch falls low, and set my world coordinate system to negative
[20:13:18] <anonimasu> or to whatever distance I have until 0 on my motors
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[20:14:43] <anonimasu> other option is to screw it, and simply use the normal homing and hope it repeats
[20:14:51] <tom3p> setting the value to non-zero is what hasnt been done, so i cant tell you how.
[20:15:02] <anonimasu> and just write a comp that stalls the machine until I have commutation data
[20:15:18] <anonimasu> i'd settle with that
[20:15:52] <anonimasu> my inductive sensors state 0.01 repeatability on a good day
[20:15:55] <tom3p> i think that absolute encoders is very valuable, i'm just working on other stuff in some ways similar... a comp,, changes the position emc sees...
[20:16:42] <anonimasu> pretty much for ac motors you cant commutate them otherwise
[20:19:52] <anonimasu> what do I do after installing the dev stuff?
[20:20:22] <anonimasu> do I need to grab emc by git if i just want to write a comp?
[20:24:43] <tom3p> anonimasu, i used 'git' to create a new dir ~/emc2-dev and build comps there , thisis called a RIP or run-in-place setup here's notes http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_with_EMC2_package_already_installed
[20:25:27] <tom3p> point 2.12 is about tools needed, point 2.2 is about using git to create this new dir
[20:25:31] <anonimasu> i think i'll settle for commutation data only as starter since I cant jog around otherwise
[20:28:27] <tom3p> begin with tools (build-dep & build-esentials etc point 2.12) , then with the source ( using git point 2.2),
[20:28:28] <tom3p> then look at simple examples (the 'not' then maybe the 'serport' or ethernet components )
[20:28:53] <anonimasu> allright :)
[20:28:55] <tom3p> the latter 2 should be realtime cloced serial data communications
[20:30:29] <tom3p> clocked
[20:32:40] <tom3p> at point 2.4 be especially careful to do ./configure --run-in-place
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[20:34:33] <tom3p> thereafter, if you run emc from the menubar, you get the std live-cd emc, BUT if you 'cd ~/emc2-dev; . scripts/emc-environment; emc' THEN you get your RIP running
[20:35:00] <tom3p> you can mess with the RIP and keep the std install safe
[20:35:27] <anonimasu> installing and setting up right now
[20:35:47] <anonimasu> I wonder about the 8i20, how it gets commutation angle..
[20:35:48] <anonimasu> :)
[20:35:55] <tom3p> i mess around in my RIP testing new comps, writing new pyvcp/glade widgets
[20:36:33] <tom3p> i dontknow about the 8i20 nor many of your interests ( other than they are interest-ing :)
[20:37:07] <anonimasu> hehe indeed
[20:37:59] <anonimasu> if I want to hook the startup of emc, I just setp a pin that my comp reads on the first call to do it's stuff right?
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[20:42:40] <anonimasu> checking for Img using /usr/bin/tclsh8.5... configure: error: not found
[20:42:41] <tom3p> you might trigger a pin on a combo of statuses peculiar to 'startup' (see the mode suite of leds ) http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Halui
[20:43:59] <tom3p> ok, seems you dont have tclsh8.5 can you look for it? (these get-all-you-need scripts are sometimes lacking )
[20:44:40] <anonimasu> found them
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[20:44:53] <anonimasu> it was the libtk-img missing
[20:45:51] <anonimasu> compiling
[20:45:51] <tom3p> sometimes its just a symlink needed, sometimes its a package
[20:46:11] <anonimasu> unusually painless
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[20:46:25] <anonimasu> i may be young, but i still remember when you had to hand edit the kernel to make it compile...
[20:46:28] <anonimasu> :D
[20:46:46] <tom3p> amazing, you're building a whole 9 axis cnc right now!
[20:46:54] <anonimasu> haha, not yet
[20:47:00] <anonimasu> the lathe goes first
[20:47:09] <tom3p> i meant the cnc control software
[20:47:12] <tom3p> ;)
[20:47:13] <anonimasu> yep :D
[20:47:25] <anonimasu> some machining and a secondary turret..
[20:47:30] <anonimasu> and a part catcher
[20:47:41] <anonimasu> and and... live tooling
[20:48:22] izua_ is now known as izua
[20:48:31] <anonimasu> I dont like messing so much, I really enjoy making parts :D
[20:49:14] <anonimasu> I guess tomorrow is time for messing with the comp stuff
[20:49:19] <anonimasu> it's getting late
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[20:54:29] <Loetmichel> *grrr* had a thread in a german CNC-forum. the other posters are confident filing and hand tools are no longer necessary. CMC machines are better , more precise and so on.
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[20:54:49] <Loetmichel> Whats is your point of view on that?
[20:54:53] -!- jbunch [jbunch!~jim@rrcs-24-43-233-135.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #emc
[20:55:18] * Loetmichel has an apprentice, and he is learning IT-electronican.
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[20:56:17] <Loetmichel> and even he has no Metal in his teachichng guide i STILL show him how to make parts out of steel, brass and aluminum with Drill press, file, hacksaw and so on.
[20:56:24] <Loetmichel> good or bad?
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[20:57:14] <tom3p> Loetmichel, cnc machines ARE apprentices, takes a journeyman to tell them what to do.
[21:00:34] <Loetmichel> hihi
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[21:01:05] <Loetmichel> i also teach my apprentice how to CNC-mill ...
[21:01:26] <Loetmichel> but as we have no CNC machine in the company, i brouhgt ma private one ;-)
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[21:02:00] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12129 <- its my apprentice, the leg on the left ;-)
[21:02:45] <tom3p> i have trouble triggering halscope on stepge.2.step when jog increment is < .01",
[21:02:50] <tom3p> fine at continuous/0.1/.01 but wont trigger at .001 or .0001 ?
[21:02:51] <tom3p> Axis DRO changes but scope doesnt trigger
[21:05:54] <cradek> do you have it watching the base thread? if not, you're probably just missing the edges
[21:07:32] <tom3p> doh! yep chg from servo to base and it catches all thx very much
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[21:14:24] <tom3p> ok new comp moves axis (kinda like JT's thc) but doesnt update the Axis dro ( i see the stepgen.2.step pulse and stepgen.2.count changes :)
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[21:30:56] <elmo40> ok. need help with lathe threading... how do you use g92 (I think that is what it is)
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[21:33:47] <elmo40> I found this on the site: G92 THREADING CYCLE, MODAL (X,Z,U,W,I,F) (SETTING 95, 96)
[21:33:57] <elmo40> but what is 'setting 95, 96' ?
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[21:35:14] <elmo40> I also see aG33. that is news to me (I am a mill guy, just been tossed onto a lathe ;) )
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[21:39:55] <anonimasu> tom3p: where do you find the included comps in the src tree?
[21:41:18] <tom3p> ~/emc2-dev/src/hal/components
[21:42:12] <tom3p> and (tada!) i have just discovered the infinite improbability drive! my comp now moves the axis and updates the axis dro
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[21:43:23] <skunkworks_> the actor that played trillion on the latest hitch hikers guide to the Galaxy movie now has a series on fox. New girl or something like that.
[21:44:26] <tom3p> the name of the show is lie 'New girl?'
[21:44:30] <tom3p> like
[21:44:33] <skunkworks_> yes
[21:45:28] <tom3p> she could've done 'tank girl'
[21:45:55] <tom3p> dang this emc2 hal comp stuff is so cool!
[21:46:19] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUOmorwf8Wk
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[21:49:03] <tom3p> oh i was thinking this girl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sandra_Dickinson_as_Trillian.jpg
[21:49:38] <elmo40> schmidt? great... every show has a token jew >_< so lame.
[21:50:31] <elmo40> but, it looks stupid
[21:50:35] <skunkworks_> tom3p: that is so old school ;)
[21:51:29] <tom3p> thats me :) and its skul dangit
[21:52:41] <ds3> has anyone used EMC's motion engine to control a crude CMM (and prehaps have written the math to solve for angles between planes, roundness, etc)?
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[21:53:15] <tom3p> its got probe, and math, go for it!
[21:54:01] <anonimasu> tom3p: are you trying to do edm?
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[21:54:26] <tom3p> yep and getting a wee bit closer
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[21:55:49] <anonimasu> now how do I add my comp for compilation?
[21:57:06] <anonimasu> err how do I just re-compile the comp's
[21:57:06] <anonimasu> ?
[21:57:11] <tom3p> write it, have it in the dir we spoke of earlier, cd to the ~/emc2-dev/src dir and write 'make' <enter> hope for no errors :)
[21:57:44] <tom3p> make will only find one thing new ( the comp ) and its done very quickly
[21:58:23] <anonimasu> is there a init function you can stick to init stuff to pre-set values in your comp?
[21:58:32] <anonimasu> or is function just what is called cyclically?
[22:00:46] <tom3p> you can give the parameters pins or signal names and use Axis tool 'emc-configuration' it has a line to exec assignments at bot right
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[22:04:28] <tom3p> anonimasu, http://imagebin.org/163144 here i use the dialog to chg the parameter
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[22:06:38] <tom3p> how do you run emc from a terminal and have the ability to exec sets and setp and halmeter... ?
[22:06:56] <awallin> you have many terminals...
[22:08:03] <anonimasu> tom3p: also, how does persistant data between calls work?
[22:08:31] <anonimasu> do you set them up as pins?
[22:08:41] <anonimasu> and the next thing what I were wondering is if you can set up a init function for stuff
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[22:08:50] <tom3p> awallin but only the terminal that set the environment is valid for the RIP
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[22:09:19] <tom3p> yeh i didnt say i was running a rip, sorry
[22:10:05] <tom3p> anonimasu, you can set data for parameters and do 'setp myparam .001' (or similar)
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[22:10:27] <tom3p> you can set data as pins and use sets on the signal attached
[22:11:18] <tom3p> or 'net mysignal mycomp.0.in01; sets mysignal -123;' or similar
[22:11:38] <anonimasu> and are there bidirectional signals?
[22:11:41] <anonimasu> (probably not)
[22:11:43] <tom3p> and the init could be done in the loaded hal file
[22:11:58] <anonimasu> but can I reset that pin somehow by my comp
[22:12:05] <anonimasu> to know it's init:ed
[22:12:17] <tom3p> yes there are ( have not played, but thats a valid pin type . io for pins and rw for params )
[22:12:24] <anonimasu> I see
[22:12:25] <anonimasu> great!
[22:12:40] <anonimasu> well, time to head to bed
[22:12:42] <anonimasu> thanks for the help!
[22:12:49] <anonimasu> we'll see how far i get before asking more
[22:13:12] <tom3p> and without making it io, you can monitor it in anyevent ( halmeter halscope emc-configuration... )
[22:13:25] <tom3p> ok bestoluck
[22:14:30] <tom3p> cnc retrofit checklist http://www.controleng.com/single-article/computer-numerical-control-cnc-faceoff/2789237e6c.html
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[22:17:14] <andypugh> tom3p: Back to the question which I didn't see answered. "halrun" will set up the real-time environment and let you do "setp" etc
[22:17:51] <andypugh> Alternatively, if Realtime is up and running (for example if EMC2 is loaded) then you need to prefix your commands with "halcmd"
[22:18:36] <tom3p> andypugh, i was looking for a way to have a terminal AND Axis , can i get halrun and Axis at same time? i dont know how to open a terminal after Axis is up
[22:20:30] <tom3p> my debugging needed to see if the Axis dro was responding to my efforts
[22:20:55] <andypugh> I don't think you can have a terminal with the "halcmd" prompt, but you can open a terminal from the accessories menu, and as long as you type "halcmd" in front of every command, it will work.
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[22:27:59] <tom3p> andypugh, got it! for my rip, i open a terminal, cd to the rip root, '. scripts/emc-environment' then halcmd blhablahblah works ! cool ( the sourcing of the env is neccesary for the rip )
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[22:28:46] <andypugh> Yes, though once you have run the script you can "halcmd" from anywhere.
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[22:29:00] <andypugh> Useful commands are "show" and "source"
[22:29:12] <andypugh> type "man halrun" for the help pages.
[22:30:17] <tom3p> even cooler halcmd loadrt halmeter ( the emc-configuration worked well but this is better )
[22:30:26] <tom3p> thx!
[22:33:31] <tom3p> hehe but i couldve gotten that from the menu bar... the haut setup would be to have a halrun terminal during emc-axis
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[22:45:27] <tom3p> if i copy and paste this param name, but type rest, this command works "tomp@gatewayLucid:~/emc2-dev$ halcmd setp xthctest2.0.offset .0001" but, if i type the whole line , it fails , why?
[22:45:28] <tom3p> http://pastebin.com/ALZQ5TE2
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[23:03:49] <danimal_garage> hi
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[23:05:44] <danimal_garage> John's the only one that ever says hi back
[23:07:46] <tom3p> hi back
[23:08:07] <danimal_garage> thats better
[23:08:12] <danimal_garage> now i feel less along
[23:08:15] <danimal_garage> alone*
[23:08:34] <tom3p> just a man and his machine
[23:08:57] <danimal_garage> it was pretty touch and go for a while there
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[23:11:36] <danimal_garage> cerberatour rebuild time!
[23:12:57] <tom3p> wicked stuff carburetor cleaner, used to do SU's
[23:14:26] <tom3p> used color-tunes to set the mixes ( clear glass spark pulgs with a periscope to see the color of the explosion)
[23:14:29] <danimal_garage> su's?
[23:14:55] <tom3p> Sinners Union old british stuff side draft carbs, common on bikes too
[23:15:01] <tom3p> Skinners Union
[23:15:06] <danimal_garage> whoa i need one of those spark plugs
[23:15:30] <tom3p> if you have 2 carbsm u[you get exactly the same mix by setting the color
[23:15:58] <danimal_garage> i have 4, i'll vaccum sync them
[23:16:07] <danimal_garage> but i need to tune the bike badly
[23:16:12] <danimal_garage> i need to drill the jets
[23:16:58] <tom3p> google it, theres even movies. the vacuum gets you close, yep , the color tune will show the differenc between the same vacuum ( which is jet flow )
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[23:36:49] <factor> testing out a gear mold with the Urethane type , says to wait at least 16hours - 48
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[23:37:23] <factor> at least when I get it finished I will be able to use these over and over.
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[23:45:35] <skunkworks_> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/129354
[23:45:44] * skunkworks_ hugs emc again
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[23:50:07] <andypugh> tom3p: Colourtune? The have them in the US, or are you in the UK?
[23:51:09] <andypugh> Oh, I think it should be loadusr for halmeter and halscope. But I generally have them both in the file that I halcmd source to get me started.
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[23:54:52] <tom3p> andypugh, yeh, i used them in US but i think its a British product ( from Chicago!)
[23:55:38] <tom3p> do you want to use the comp by itself or with emc?
[23:59:24] <andypugh> skunkworks: To be fair, I don't think you read the EMC2 forums enough to see how many people just can't get EMC2 to run at all. Having to tell them to try grub boot lapic, software OpenGL, vesa video drivers etc, etc, makes EMC2 look a bit flaky. Admittedly when it starts running, it carries on running.