#emc | Logs for 2011-07-12

[00:00:35] <l0st1nsp4c3> right now trying to find a good cad/cam software
[00:01:00] <l0st1nsp4c3> and since i'm new to all this hard to see what's worth the $$
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[00:05:23] <tom3p> try to learn to hand code, then to use the wizards already here for free THEN look at what you need to build and what commercial product you're willin to sink a load of money into
[00:05:42] <tom3p> you may just find you dont need it so much ;)
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[00:06:52] <Eartaker> try this... http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Cam
[00:06:57] <l0st1nsp4c3> i want to make some 3d stuff with relief dunno if I could do that in G-code by myself lol
[00:08:58] <tom3p> i agree artsy stuff can be hard to hand code
[00:09:17] <l0st1nsp4c3> but maybe worth the reading
[00:09:43] <Eartaker> its good to understand the code but CAM makes everything much easier
[00:09:52] <l0st1nsp4c3> artcam seems nice but seems expensive
[00:10:11] <tom3p> but even then... theres free photo to gcode ( grey scale height map ) and text engraving and and and for free in linux
[00:10:31] <Eartaker> Ras2Vec
[00:10:47] <tom3p> read the links Eartaker suggested, really, there a lot of stuff there
[00:11:34] <l0st1nsp4c3> i already had that link looked at alot of them but figured i'd ask pros =)
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[00:19:28] <tom3p> haha l0st1nsp4c3 its a very personal decision in the end, you know the best answer
[00:20:55] <tom3p> thers a giy maing bamboo fly rods, his paths are a straightline at an angle, anothe does aerospace and needs NX6, anothe does engraving, anothe bike frames...
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[00:23:06] <danimal_garage> weird, this is the second time that emc just shut down when trying to open a file
[00:23:21] <danimal_garage> i click open and poof! it's off
[00:23:35] <danimal_garage> sucks, i gotta home it out again
[00:23:49] <l0st1nsp4c3> danimal_garage i would start emc in a terminal screen to see what it outputs
[00:23:52] <l0st1nsp4c3> or strace it
[00:24:09] <l0st1nsp4c3> unless emc has a debug logging option i don't know about
[00:25:47] <andypugh> You can play a game with http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=docs/rtfaults.txt;h=6095276de5cef3733d416c341a637134dd862a26;hb=HEAD
[00:26:16] <andypugh> But you need to be pretty desperate
[00:26:21] <tom3p> danimal_garage, all ini files have a DEBUG= line near beginning
[00:26:51] <danimal_garage> dammit i just know i'm going to loose my work offsets again.
[00:27:03] <danimal_garage> i had to restart ubuntu
[00:27:38] <l0st1nsp4c3> never been a big fan of ubuntu
[00:27:39] <tom3p> the pins for motion include motion.tooloffset.w OUT float, motion.tooloffset.x OUT float, motion.tooloffset.z OUT float shouldnt there be more ? xyzabcuvw?
[00:27:49] <l0st1nsp4c3> mind you i understand why they use it for boot cd
[00:28:02] <l0st1nsp4c3> it has an acceptable packet manager it's mainstream and updated
[00:30:27] <danimal_garage> when i restarted, it said something about an error in the file system
[00:30:32] <danimal_garage> i think my hdd is going bad
[00:30:44] <danimal_garage> i may just order a solid state one
[00:32:09] <tom3p> answer to self on motion.tooloffset yep theres a full set xyzabcuvw KimK? are the docs updated to show 9 tool offsets for motion.toolofset?
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[00:35:43] <Valen> found what was wrong with the mill
[00:36:01] <Valen> the "loosing steps" seems to be caused by a half dead linear scale :-<
[00:36:13] <andypugh> Trouble down t'mill lad?
[00:36:20] <mazafaka_> Does Mastercam worth learning it? I mean, is it popular?
[00:36:29] <Valen> $450 to replace
[00:36:33] <mazafaka_> What CAM software do you use?
[00:36:35] <Valen> it is of course the big one
[00:36:42] <Valen> rhinocam but its pretty crap
[00:36:48] <Valen> good enough to play with though
[00:36:53] <mazafaka_> Valen: do you pay for it?
[00:37:05] <Valen> *cough*
[00:37:09] * Valen looks shifty
[00:37:10] <andypugh> Valen: For that money I would probably strip and clean it, looking for the problem
[00:37:11] <mazafaka_> ah...
[00:37:22] <Valen> andypugh: did that
[00:37:24] <Valen> made it worse
[00:37:33] <andypugh> Strip and dirty it...
[00:37:36] <tom3p> before the 450, pout a bottle of 90% alchohol thru it ( a couple buck, a few minutes, and maybe it was just oily greasy dirty )
[00:37:53] <tom3p> oops, made it worse? look for connections
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[00:38:06] <Valen> tried all that too
[00:38:23] <Valen> i think we will get the new one, then warranty the old one
[00:39:49] <Valen> got some jobs to get done with it, so cant really screw around too much
[00:39:55] <tom3p> yeh, touchy old scales is like touchy old hard drives... sometimes best to get new and end the battle
[00:40:15] <Valen> not that old unfortunatly
[00:40:24] <Valen> well, it hasn't seen much use anyway
[00:40:33] <andypugh> This modern rubbish...
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[00:41:46] <Valen> something like that
[00:42:03] <Valen> thinking of going to one of those ball bearing based doohickeys for the next one
[00:42:08] <Valen> should be more "robust"
[00:42:46] <andypugh> I am guessing that this:
[00:42:48] <andypugh> [19568.000369] Buffer I/O error on device sda1, logical block 1575759
[00:42:54] <andypugh> Is not good?
[00:42:56] <Valen> thats bad mmmkay
[00:43:05] <Valen> yay new HDD for andypugh
[00:43:23] <tom3p> esp when it repeats over & over in the log
[00:43:27] <l0st1nsp4c3> andypugh lol
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[00:43:44] <l0st1nsp4c3> Input/Output errors tend to be very bad
[00:44:00] <mazafaka_> perfrorm low-level formatting, use parted magic .iso , it's a small bootable linux distro
[00:44:02] <l0st1nsp4c3> actually i think it's a new SDD for tom
[00:44:09] <tom3p> NOW is the time to back up ( if it wasnt b/u d last nite )
[00:44:45] <mazafaka_> What, manually copy the files?
[00:44:47] <Valen> low level format wont recover bad sectors
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[00:45:15] <Valen> also you can't low level format disks any more as far as i'm aware
[00:45:23] <l0st1nsp4c3> Valen you are correct
[00:45:26] <andypugh> dd?
[00:45:39] <l0st1nsp4c3> seeing as most hdd have their firmware written on the platters themselves
[00:45:43] <mazafaka_> Valen: it will let HDD's self-testing routine to determine and put out of the usage all these bad sectors
[00:45:47] <Valen> nah low level formatting did magic mogo
[00:45:49] <andypugh> It's a 4GB SSD.
[00:45:51] <tom3p> correct grab the goodies and get a new drive, a libe cd will do most of what your need but configs, custom pyvcp/glade/schematics... grab em now
[00:45:53] <l0st1nsp4c3> if you could LLF it you would kill the drive
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[00:46:01] <mazafaka_> mhdd util
[00:46:03] <Valen> you cant low level format a newer drive
[00:46:25] <Valen> andypugh: in that case dding off it and back to it may "fix" it
[00:46:38] <mazafaka_> you mean, SSD? Off course.
[00:46:39] <l0st1nsp4c3> altho that use to work with old drives
[00:46:51] <l0st1nsp4c3> s.m.a.r.t. monitoring should've warned you
[00:46:51] <Valen> I'm not too sure bad sector = multiplying death
[00:46:57] <mazafaka_> Valen: no, not at all.
[00:47:00] <l0st1nsp4c3> and the firmware on the drive by itself reassigns bad sectors
[00:47:12] <Valen> you will loose the data in that sector of course
[00:47:21] <Valen> also i've had that from a bad cable too btw
[00:47:27] <l0st1nsp4c3> so when they start popping up usually you've ran out of extra sectors to replace them...and you can only kill so many sectors
[00:47:35] <andypugh> To be fair, I have been million-monkeys developing on it for a year. I hate to think how many write cycles that is.
[00:47:51] <mazafaka_> Valen: and andypugh dd may write zeroes - i.e. write nothing to hdd simply removing the data. you need exactly to write 1 to fill all the sectors
[00:47:55] <Valen> a read error will happen regardless of spare block allocations
[00:48:08] <Valen> mazafaka_: dude get a clue
[00:48:34] <l0st1nsp4c3> Valen never said that i think you misunderstood
[00:48:46] <Valen> l0st1nsp4c3: you have to write to the block to cause it to be reallocated
[00:48:57] <mazafaka_> with HDD you always can have a try. intellectual nookie
[00:49:46] <andypugh> OK, so how do I suck all the data off the drive onto my Mac?
[00:49:56] <andypugh> (The machine rebooted OK)
[00:50:21] <Valen> first try is dd if=/dev/foo of=somefile bs=128K
[00:50:38] <Valen> failing that ddrescue
[00:50:45] <Valen> i presume you can get that for a max
[00:50:46] <Valen> mac
[00:50:59] <Valen> ddrescue will skip over bad blocks without barfing
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[00:51:08] <Valen> (i'd use ddrescue first if you have it)
[00:51:17] <Valen> it'll also go back and retry the bad blocks
[00:51:18] <andypugh> Assume I am a) clueless and b) connected by ssh..
[00:51:24] <Valen> oh
[00:51:28] <Valen> ...
[00:51:35] <l0st1nsp4c3> lol
[00:51:46] <Valen> you can't plug the ssd into something else?
[00:52:16] <andypugh> Possibly, I have an SATA adaptor.
[00:52:28] <andypugh> Let me save my work.
[00:52:34] <Valen> thats probably a good idea
[00:52:53] <Valen> you could use sshfs to mount something on it and copy stuff off it
[00:53:33] <l0st1nsp4c3> i missed if but if it's a hdd run ddrescue in reverse mode!
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[00:54:01] <Valen> reverse mode?
[00:54:43] <l0st1nsp4c3> when experiencing bad sectors reverse mode is the best way to go if HDD
[00:54:48] <l0st1nsp4c3> if it's an SDD makes no diff
[00:55:10] <l0st1nsp4c3> they actually had a diff named ddrescue for that as one point
[00:56:04] <l0st1nsp4c3> but AFAIK they implemented it in ddrescue
[00:57:36] <andypugh> OK, so this is where I regret soldering the SSD to the PSU?
[00:58:02] <l0st1nsp4c3> ???
[00:58:08] <l0st1nsp4c3> u did what now?
[00:58:08] <mazafaka_> SSD may fear huge amount of tiny files
[00:59:35] <Valen> lol
[00:59:47] <Valen> is it your emc or some other such?
[00:59:48] <l0st1nsp4c3> SSD only fears multiple write cycles on same sectors thus why the randomising algorythm in SSD is very important
[01:00:16] <l0st1nsp4c3> but we don't see that magic happening the firmware does it all without us seeing it
[01:00:35] <andypugh> It's a little DOM SATA module, with flying leads for power. I didn't like the pointless huge IDE disk power socket to IDE plug (which were bigger than the PicoPSU and the SSD combined) so I soldered the power leads direct to the PicoPSU (which already has a bunch of little flying-leads)
[01:01:28] <l0st1nsp4c3> andypugh take out the soldering iron and some desoldering braid or a solder sucker
[01:01:38] <andypugh> Yes, it is my EMC2 machine. I never planned on doing dev work on that drive, it just sort of hapened. dozens of compiles a night for months probably count as cruel and unusual treatment of an SSD
[01:01:56] <l0st1nsp4c3> or if you have a sx-80 that's always nice
[01:01:58] <Valen> for a 4gb it might not be too nice
[01:02:23] <theorbtwo> You probably killed your warranty when you cut off the sockets.
[01:02:28] <Valen> if you can copy your stuff off manually i'd then just reinstall it
[01:02:43] <Valen> though dding zeros to it first
[01:03:25] <andypugh> Warranty? It cost me £14 on eBay
[01:03:39] <Valen> lol
[01:03:48] <Valen> whats the performance like?
[01:03:56] <Valen> i have a 250gb hdd for emc machine
[01:04:00] <Valen> feels pretty wastefull
[01:04:05] <andypugh> Fine, perfectly acceptable.
[01:04:22] <Valen> i mean is it like a "real" ssd
[01:04:24] <danimal_garage> i think mine is 700gb or something like that
[01:04:29] <andypugh> Not noticed any problem, and I expect it would last indefinitely under more normal useage
[01:04:36] <danimal_garage> not solid state though
[01:04:37] <Valen> ie blazing fast in comparison to a normal disk?
[01:05:47] * Valen loves his SSD
[01:05:55] <Valen> getting a new one or two as well wewt
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[01:06:11] <andypugh> It's one of these. You can see why I hated the plug. I did _not_ pay that price. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8GB-KingSpec-7-Pin-SATA-SSD-DOM-Disk-Module-SLC-2-Ch-/250729260382
[01:06:32] <Valen> i'm not seeing the downside to the plug?
[01:08:28] <andypugh> It's unaesthetic in the context of a mini-itx bolted to the back of the monitor
[01:09:40] <l0st1nsp4c3> mmm
[01:10:00] <andypugh> Hmm, no, can't see a way to plug it into the Mac.
[01:10:17] <andypugh> `I wonder if one of these would work in a D510MO? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mini-PCIe-SATA-8GB-Eee-PC-901-900-903-905-1000-Akz-/350444065848
[01:10:25] <Valen> are you ok with re-installing?
[01:11:12] <Valen> andypugh: could do
[01:11:40] <Valen> the ones for an eee 701 wont work but they will be pretty rare
[01:12:00] <andypugh> I would prefer not to re-intstall, mainly as I can't recall how I got the touchscreen working..
[01:12:26] <Valen> you could try rsyncing the whole thing off
[01:12:50] <tom3p> bestoluck
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[01:13:01] <Valen> do you have another disk you can plug into that machine?
[01:13:22] <l0st1nsp4c3> i have a bad idea if you have a burner =P
[01:13:29] <l0st1nsp4c3> you could on the fly....
[01:13:35] * l0st1nsp4c3 shoots himself for proposingi t
[01:13:44] <Valen> sure its a bad idea
[01:13:46] <Valen> but eh
[01:13:55] <Valen> its one of the least worst ones
[01:14:06] <Valen> lol stick a 4Gb usb stick into it
[01:14:07] <l0st1nsp4c3> i cringe at the on the fly burning
[01:14:28] <l0st1nsp4c3> well you can ssh to the box
[01:14:34] <l0st1nsp4c3> why not empty it via ssh
[01:14:45] <Valen> boot into ro mode then dd it lol
[01:15:18] <andypugh> So, how do I empty it via SSH?
[01:15:41] <Valen> depends on how much you want to back up
[01:15:53] <l0st1nsp4c3> many ways to make that happen for files
[01:16:03] <l0st1nsp4c3> if you want total image that's alot trickier plus you will copy the bad sectors
[01:17:40] <l0st1nsp4c3> the tool of choice is usualy scp but that entails you have ssh on both ends...if not you could setup a quick ftp on your other box and from ssh log in to that ftp server and send files
[01:17:43] <l0st1nsp4c3> etc etc etc etc
[01:17:47] <l0st1nsp4c3> really depends on your setup
[01:17:57] <andypugh> I think the problem is likely to be that the ssh shell can't see the local file system (unless I am missing something truly obvious)
[01:18:18] <l0st1nsp4c3> andypugh: scp =)
[01:19:21] <l0st1nsp4c3> you could also use pxe to boot the defective drive machine then create an image of it on an NT
[01:19:30] <l0st1nsp4c3> NFS drive not NT sorry hit enter to fast
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[01:22:10] <andypugh> Well, scp is looking good
[01:22:25] <l0st1nsp4c3> i just see so many ways of doing this
[01:22:34] <l0st1nsp4c3> that i'm not to sure which one is the easiest for u
[01:22:41] <l0st1nsp4c3> not knowing your setup how many pcs you have and what they run
[01:23:46] <andypugh> I have "mill" which is the problem machine, "cube" which is an iMac (but used to be a Cube) and "lathe" which is a Hardy EMC2 machine.
[01:24:16] <l0st1nsp4c3> well the mill to the Lathe is the easiest
[01:24:19] <andypugh> It seems that scp is part of MacOS.
[01:24:25] <l0st1nsp4c3> since both have easy ftp and scp support
[01:24:37] <l0st1nsp4c3> the imac depends on osx version
[01:24:47] <andypugh> Snow Leopard
[01:24:56] <l0st1nsp4c3> a cube like NeXTCube?
[01:25:11] <andypugh> (I am trying to think of ways I can add "mill" to the Time Machine)
[01:25:18] <andypugh> No, Apple G4 Cube
[01:25:22] <l0st1nsp4c3> oh
[01:25:29] <l0st1nsp4c3> not as impressive but still good good lol
[01:25:39] <andypugh> It got cloned onto the iMac and the share name stayed the same.
[01:26:20] <andypugh> I sold it after 5 years use (8 years old) for more than I paid for it. Unusual for a PC.
[01:27:46] <l0st1nsp4c3> weird
[01:28:18] <l0st1nsp4c3> Valen has gone silent
[01:28:24] <Valen> <- workin
[01:28:29] <l0st1nsp4c3> oh noes
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[01:37:50] <jdhNC> http://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=162&acctid=3473
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[01:44:03] <andypugh> I think my scp command might have been a little too naive: http://pastebin.com/6jBH5Vwp
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[03:12:05] <mikeggg> I guess because it has a schmitt trigger differential signaling is not required?
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[03:13:00] <Tom_itx> schmitt trigger just cleans up a signal
[03:13:41] <mikeggg> ignores noise, which is accomplished with differential signaling as well, no?
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[03:37:36] <Valen> sorta kinda but not really
[03:38:07] <Valen> mikegg, differential signalling sends say +5v and -5v to the reciever and has both lines coupled closley together
[03:38:33] <Valen> so a noise spike will say make the reciever see +15 and +5V
[03:38:53] <Valen> the rx however still sees that +10 volt *difference*
[03:39:36] <Valen> schmitt trigger input will be 0 at say less than 2.5v and 1 at any more than that
[03:40:07] <Valen> normal TTL inputs have a region from around 1.8 volts to 3 volts or so where the output is undefined
[03:40:21] <Valen> and it can cause weird random oscilations etc
[03:40:59] <Valen> basically if you have a slightly noisy 5v signal, then a schmitt trigger will make the input not bounce and explode
[03:41:10] <Valen> if the noise is a bit bigger it won't stop it
[03:41:35] <Valen> the differential input will be generally immune to everything
[03:41:57] <mikeggg> ok
[03:42:23] <mikeggg> thanks!
[03:43:25] <mikeggg> just trying to think if there are cases where a schmitt trigger would be an acceptable substitute for differential signaling
[03:43:34] <mikeggg> I guess it's possible
[03:44:13] <mikeggg> I mean you wouldn't expect to see the example on an encoder signal
[03:44:34] <mikeggg> (+15v / +5)
[03:44:45] <mikeggg> unless you did something wrong
[03:46:51] * mikeggg gets back to desoldering with my blowtorch
[03:46:53] <Valen> 10v noise spike isn't that bad
[03:47:33] <l0st1nsp4c3> hum
[03:47:41] <Valen> well ok
[03:47:42] <Valen> its bad
[03:47:49] <Valen> but i wouldn't say its outrageous
[03:48:15] <l0st1nsp4c3> when desoldering fine pitch IC's a truely recomend an acetelene torch =P
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[03:52:29] <mikeggg> actually, that worked pretty well. I just pulled a four socket RJ-45 off a dead router and the fire extinguisher is still on the wall
[03:53:02] <l0st1nsp4c3> lol
[03:53:04] <mikeggg> I used some wick on the four big shield grounds
[03:53:08] <l0st1nsp4c3> that's what a HOT AIR blower is for
[03:53:13] <l0st1nsp4c3> not a propane torch
[03:53:32] <l0st1nsp4c3> or desoldering braid or a desoldering iron =P
[03:54:22] <mikeggg> yeah, I've got some braid. the hot air gun is still on the "nice to have" list
[03:54:27] <mikeggg> :)
[03:54:45] <l0st1nsp4c3> lol
[03:54:58] <l0st1nsp4c3> i use my pace sx-80 for those kinda things
[04:01:37] <mikeggg> is that a hot air gun, or one of those solder suckers?
[04:02:13] <Valen> stick it in the oven upside down with a tray to catch stuff
[04:02:25] <mikeggg> oooh, I like it
[04:03:06] <l0st1nsp4c3> err no
[04:03:13] <l0st1nsp4c3> not if it's an oven you eat out of please
[04:03:28] <l0st1nsp4c3> FR4 and other fiberglass based pcbs are highly toxic
[04:03:52] <l0st1nsp4c3> same as for the masks
[04:04:03] <l0st1nsp4c3> unless you like the darwin theory lol
[04:04:06] <mikeggg> but you wouldn't disturb that reflowing the solder would you?
[04:04:18] <mikeggg> if it didn't have an RoHS
[04:04:43] <l0st1nsp4c3> if you don't control the temperatur correctly you can
[04:04:49] <l0st1nsp4c3> actually RoHS = high melting temps
[04:04:51] <mikeggg> ok, I but that
[04:04:55] <mikeggg> *buy
[04:04:59] <l0st1nsp4c3> therefore everything RoHS has to survive higher temperatures
[04:05:13] <l0st1nsp4c3> since most common lead free solders have a way higher melting point
[04:05:39] <l0st1nsp4c3> thus why you cannot reflow non RoHS parts in your RoHS reflow profile because you will 96% of the time kill them
[04:05:57] <mikeggg> I think hack-a-day has a PID toaster for these things anyway...
[04:06:08] <l0st1nsp4c3> yup
[04:06:29] <l0st1nsp4c3> anyways like i said solder mask and pcb itself are not made to be done in your home oven lol
[04:06:50] <mikeggg> hmmm what about the grill?
[04:07:21] <l0st1nsp4c3> lol
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[04:13:39] <l0st1nsp4c3> im out nite guys/gals
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[04:15:02] <mikeggg> same here
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[04:39:56] <Valen> new scale fixed the mill
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[05:52:32] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:52:48] <awallin> hi
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[06:31:42] <the_wench> nicko: KimK said (sent via later) nicko, the 5i22 has an assortment of jumpers for each port to set 3.3v/5v in different ways, check the manual. Or at least figure out what you want to do and come back and talk about it. Bye!
[06:35:47] <nicko> the wench: Yup, I've been reading the manual and talking with Peter too
[06:35:57] <nicko> what I want to do:
[06:36:11] <nicko> get a signal from the 5i22 recognised correctly by my drive
[06:36:18] <nicko> ;)
[06:36:36] <nicko> it seems that my logic and 'logic' too - was correct
[06:37:03] <nicko> and I only have to go back again and take (yet another) hard look at the actual wiring
[06:38:43] <nicko> there obviously is something wrong - its going to be me - the problem is that its me that has to find what I've done wrong...
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[06:40:03] <nicko> lets hope a few days off will have given my brain enough random input so that it can jolt it into realization
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[06:44:10] <awallin> nicko: do you have some fancy drives that take something else than simple step/dir or pwm/dir?
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[06:50:10] <nicko> awallin: I have drives that take pretty much all the control I know about
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[06:50:24] <nicko> granite devices VSD-XE
[06:50:53] <nicko> I have had them working with analog and step/dir - but only freewheeling in analog and open loop step/dir
[06:51:03] <nicko> I have got the encoder passthrough to EMC to work
[06:51:18] <nicko> but I'm stuck on getting PWM to work and the enable pins
[06:51:53] <nicko> (I have disabled 'disable' (ie. permanently enabled them) in the meantime
[06:52:44] <nicko> I need the analog outs I have for other axes so PWM it needs to be
[06:54:48] <awallin> ok, sounds like you have a good handle on it then! :)
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[08:04:30] <mazafaka_> hello
[08:08:50] <nicko> yo
[08:10:07] <mazafaka_> da chat
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[08:15:43] <mazafaka_> How have you entered to the CNC, how and why have become oners of it?
[08:15:48] <mazafaka_> I mean,
[08:16:44] <mazafaka_> I do not decorate anything, neither I create electric schemes or models of something, e.g. mouldings.
[08:17:22] <mazafaka_> I need steel parts to be lathed and machined, and sheet steel to be heated up and formed a little.
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[08:23:24] <mazafaka_> Just interesting how have you decided once to get some parts for you home-made CNC machines. Loetmichel, how have you started to create yours? (I also create a lot by hands: We have couple of gardens, and do some painting and repairs of the technics in the garage.) Need to go and weed actually.
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[08:25:46] <nicko> CNC ?
[08:26:22] <nicko> need the relative ease of precision for fabrication of mostly one off parts/gear for cine and theatre engineering
[08:26:46] <nicko> I want to have a shop like this one day:
[08:28:16] <mazafaka_> like which one?
[08:28:57] <nicko> http://www.creaturetechnology.com/?page_id=1562
[08:29:27] <nicko> http://www.creaturetechnology.com/?page_id=402
[08:29:33] <nicko> I've been there
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[08:29:48] <nicko> too damn tall to drive one !
[08:30:01] <nicko> so I'll just build bigger ones ;) ;) ;)
[08:30:27] <mazafaka_> oh, will see
[08:31:11] <Valen> lol @ http://www.creaturetechnology.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Topgear-June-2009_.jpg
[08:31:35] <mazafaka_> so, you use e.g. ten motors to make the sculpture to move?
[08:33:03] <nicko> that T=Rex is independant - no tethering
[08:33:19] <nicko> maza: yeh kinda
[08:33:31] <nicko> Hydraulics for the big stuff
[08:33:51] <nicko> electric motors for moving 'about'
[08:34:21] <nicko> and a heap of air muscle for both the look of muscle and also proper animatronic articulation
[08:35:03] <nicko> air muscles:
[08:35:04] <nicko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPGgl5VH5go
[08:35:13] <mazafaka_> when i was kid, i had two biiks on a birthday, one is about the history of airplanes (And my motorcycles are curently shiny with the metal they have - just like ground airplanes), and another is about dinosaurus.
[08:35:32] <nicko> actually not too sure how much air muscle is in that penguin
[08:35:34] <mazafaka_> So, T-rex is a heavy and powerful predator, but not the most huge one.
[08:35:43] <nicko> but festo do lots of it - google it
[08:36:20] <nicko> the biggest dinosaur in the show is the brachiosaur *did I spell it correctly?*
[08:36:31] <mazafaka_> Those huge dinosaurus ate leaves of the huge trees. they were about 39 meters tall or so.
[08:36:39] <nicko> hmmm
[08:36:52] <nicko> I dunno about 39m in the show
[08:37:09] <nicko> but certainly IMPRESSIVE
[08:39:18] <mazafaka_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPGgl5VH5go <-- yeah, that's a technology
[08:40:35] <Loetmichel> ok, yesterday: milling in my car... Today: soldering, filing, painting with zinc spray:
[08:41:13] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12129
[08:41:28] <mazafaka_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brachiosaurus
[08:41:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12132
[08:41:51] <mazafaka_> they are not so tall
[08:42:47] <mazafaka_> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12132 was it cut out of sheet metal with end mill?
[08:43:02] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: which one? my machine count is somewhere at eight, with the first one more a demonstartion model but working for wood and plastics.
[08:43:37] <Loetmichel> some of my machines:
[08:43:39] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2859
[08:44:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4403
[08:44:18] <Loetmichel> (for my ex-boss this one)
[08:44:35] <mazafaka_> And what is http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12129 ??
[08:44:48] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3080
[08:45:02] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11450
[08:45:40] <mazafaka_> these are dremels? or mini-drills, right? these are not the spindles?
[08:45:47] <Loetmichel> and a machine for a friend where i helped/gave some advice: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205
[08:46:18] <Loetmichel> work in progress at the moment:
[08:46:31] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=359
[08:46:33] <Loetmichel> and
[08:47:02] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8872
[08:47:15] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
[08:47:44] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205 <-- you look way older. Is this a truly long work in progress?
[08:47:46] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: thats my actual in use mill
[08:47:59] <Loetmichel> small enough fpr milling out of the trunk
[08:48:34] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: thats not me, tahts MarkusBec
[08:49:05] <mazafaka_> you use gears, how do you compensate the backlash? when you move the gears, the raatio changes.
[08:49:17] <Loetmichel> ???
[08:49:18] <mazafaka_> Oh
[08:49:32] <mazafaka_> screws are being driven through gears
[08:50:13] <Loetmichel> ah, and i made a small CNC out of a Pic and place bot fopr a colleague
[08:50:14] <mazafaka_> and gears will wear out quickly
[08:51:54] <mazafaka_> I understand now. Has it started like a hobby?
[08:52:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10546
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[08:52:49] <mazafaka_> And how will the screw be driven at http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=359 and at: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884 ??
[08:52:53] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: the gears werent a problem at the first machine (the one made of acrylics)
[08:53:07] <MarkusBec> hm?
[08:53:18] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: how? the machine seems to go to and fro?
[08:53:31] <Loetmichel> the metric screws as spindes were: 8 hours and the nuts were straight holes, no thread left ;-)
[08:53:38] <MarkusBec> I am not OLD!!!!!!!
[08:54:27] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: the spindles will be driven from se opposite side
[08:54:41] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: with belts or with gears?
[08:55:04] <Loetmichel> MarkusBec: he meant: i am lookong MUCH older than on the Photo, so he asked if that macine was a long work in progress
[08:55:08] <Loetmichel> belts
[08:55:25] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: so, screws has ball nuts, nut the sliding type of nuts?
[08:55:32] <Loetmichel> gears are ok for low pecision
[08:55:47] <mazafaka_> MarkusBec: yeah, but your beard... stop eating meat and you will look like a boy.
[08:56:11] <psha[work]> stop eating waffles!
[08:56:59] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: by low precision you mean... you move the driving gear towards the driven gear while the ratio is changes slightly?
[08:57:25] <Loetmichel> the ratio doesent change
[08:57:44] <Loetmichel> but the inherent backslash does
[08:57:52] <mazafaka_> psha[work]: yeah, ate dandelion leaves yeastarday at the garden.
[08:58:36] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: no, the ratio changes. the dividing diameters may change along with the distance between the axes
[09:00:23] <mazafaka_> small gear wears of more quickly and you get changed ratio when you corrigate it
[09:04:32] <mazafaka_> **wears off
[09:04:58] <mazafaka_> so you change the ratio in axis_*.ini - if you can count one precisely ;)
[09:08:06] <mazafaka_> Do you buy or create such thingies yourself? http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8881
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[09:12:29] <mazafaka_> Electronics all around the workbenches
[09:14:29] <mazafaka_> That's how it starts...
[09:15:55] <mazafaka_> Is this a pump for the coolant? http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5492
[09:18:51] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: the ACTIAL ratio is determined by the numer of teeth
[09:19:20] <Loetmichel> you are right: with an incorrect axledistance you get more wear, but NO change in ratio
[09:19:51] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: yes i do
[09:20:20] <Loetmichel> no, that is a air compressor
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[09:21:02] <Loetmichel> s/actioa/actual
[09:23:18] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: by dividing diameter which lays in the center of the teeth of the gear. You do not exactly move them both equal distance, you actually move the small one a bit more, these two radii start to change
[09:23:50] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: you have milled them or bought them?
[09:28:21] <mazafaka_> What if bronze nut will slide on the polished screw... But how to create polished screw wich will not wear off the bronze nut...
[09:33:03] <mazafaka_> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11196 <-- the problem of the mini drils. Also, they heat up at its highest speeds, so instead of 6 it is usually better to use speeds like 4 to 5.
[09:37:44] <mazafaka_> What sort of grinding wheel it is? http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8961
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[09:41:43] <mazafaka_> Belts like it are being sold? http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10664 and the wheel for such belts?
[09:41:49] <mazafaka_> *wheels
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[09:50:40] <mazafaka_> just draw two gear wheels starting from circles, imagine they have worn off differently and you compensate the backlash. The ratio is changes. This as well explains how old cars start to ride more slow. :)
[09:51:31] <mazafaka_> Or why do you think old car may ride more slow? ;)
[09:53:21] <mazafaka_> I only see one xplanation :)
[09:54:19] <mazafaka_> damn smileys are so f!@#$% funny, can't resist :)
[09:55:54] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: I have milled them
[09:56:29] <Loetmichel> the grinding wheel is diamond dust clad steel
[09:57:39] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: belts like this aber being sold over here
[09:57:50] <Loetmichel> www.maedler.de for example
[09:58:35] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: youre babbling. any gear with teeth left CANT change its ratio
[09:58:46] <Loetmichel> only the play will start to rise
[09:58:47] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: you have milled the wheels for belts?
[09:58:51] <Loetmichel> if worn
[09:58:56] <Loetmichel> yes i did
[09:59:27] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: yes, unless you "gorrigate" or move them towards each other
[09:59:35] <Loetmichel> NO
[09:59:41] <mazafaka_> "corrigate" or "correct"
[10:00:04] <Loetmichel> as long as the teeth ar connecting each other there will be NOC change of ratio
[10:00:11] <Loetmichel> until the geas slip over
[10:00:12] <mazafaka_> This is the way to correct the ratio for given module and amount of teeth
[10:00:14] <Loetmichel> gears
[10:02:07] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: they start to connect or touch each other at various diameters, they are called dividing diameters. It is a way to correct the ratio only a little wgen you do not change the size or amount of the teeth - where it's needed. it's called in Russian "corrigate" or "correct"
[10:02:18] <Loetmichel> oh my. think about it: the gears are interlocked with its teeth. to change the ratio even slightest wou would have to skip some teeth. tahts not possible until the are SO worn that the no longer web.
[10:02:26] <mazafaka_> no, Loetmichel
[10:02:41] <Loetmichel> and thats my last word on the topic.
[10:02:42] <mazafaka_> think of them as of two circles at first.
[10:02:43] <Loetmichel> EOD
[10:03:30] <mazafaka_> you haven't ever been drawing them on the paper, or designed them, that's why you don't understand
[10:03:44] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: EOD
[10:04:19] <Loetmichel> (and i HAVE drawed them a lot, AND milled/ USED them)
[10:04:21] <mazafaka_> What? "EOD" = somewhat like "eat or dinner" = "I'm eating or having a dinner, shut up"?
[10:04:29] <Loetmichel> END OF DISCUSSION
[10:04:44] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: if you would start from the calculations, you would know it.
[10:04:51] <Loetmichel> i will NO longer talk about a topic whre you dont WANT to accept physics
[10:05:53] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: I designed huge crane and took exams.
[10:07:01] <Loetmichel> ok, which company? (to get distance to them if i see them)
[10:07:31] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: wait, i didn't said it on a proper English
[10:09:36] <Loetmichel> one last time: the only way to change the ratio of input RPM to output RPM of a set of gears is to change the number of teeth on them. NOT to change the axle distance or anything else.
[10:10:11] <Loetmichel> and if you say otherwise: pleas dont bother to talk with me about it, i will not listen.
[10:10:15] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: if you have teeth with different height you may change ratio by moving them closer :)
[10:10:15] <mazafaka_> yes, but there's still a trick: you slightly cut the depths of the teeth of the gear to move them closer to each other, to change the ratio for given size and amount of teeth.
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[10:10:31] <Loetmichel> and now i have to be a litte productive or my boss will be iangry
[10:10:32] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: but i guess you'd better throw away such gears ;)
[10:11:36] <mazafaka_> Same happens when you move differently-worn-off gears closer to each other - to compensate the backlash.
[10:12:12] <psha[work]> mazafaka_: man, even i see that ratio will be same unless one of your gears slip
[10:13:16] <mazafaka_> Ths can be made to new gears for exact calculated ratio - you just re-create them by moving them one against another and get a precise ratio for certain given pitch or module and amount of teeth of the gears. But distance between the gears changes a little.
[10:14:05] <mazafaka_> psha[work]: прочитай про "Корригация" (подрезание) зубьев" в курсовом проектировании деталей и машин.
[10:15:05] <psha[work]> mazafaka_: соотношение у тебя при фиксированном числе зубов останется тем же
[10:15:28] <psha[work]> может скорость стать неравномерной, но обороты будут теми же
[10:15:34] <mazafaka_> hfccnjzybt vt;le jczvb e;t bpvtyztncz jn hfcx`nyjuj d vtymie. cnjhjye? 'nj ltkftncz b lkz yjds[ itcnthty? rjulf ytj,[jlbvj
[10:16:28] <mazafaka_> нет, изменятся делительные диаметры - ведь одна из шестерёнок наверняка износится больше другой.
[10:19:10] <Loetmichel> psha[work]: we have a word for people like him in germany: "Merkbefreit" (means: he has a "free to listen to ANY reason")
[10:19:52] <psha[work]> i guess he's a bit messed with linear vs angular speeds
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[10:28:32] <Loetmichel> i meant: "free NOT to listen"
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[10:31:52] <Loetmichel> hmmm. my apprentice just pointed out: maybe mazafaka_ meant: you can change the number of teeth for any given gear diameter by chaning the "head circle" of the gears (changing the point whrere the teeth run against each other)
[10:32:22] <Loetmichel> that would be valid, bud not for any given real gear, jou have to manufacture a new one
[10:32:25] <Loetmichel> you
[10:32:33] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: me?! nonono :)
[10:32:46] <psha[work]> i'm happily living without gears :)
[10:32:48] <Loetmichel> with a differen number of teeth just the same diameter as the old
[10:33:26] <Loetmichel> psha[work]: i made a lot of gears from scratch for my machines
[10:33:59] <Loetmichel> even 2 step gears to get 1:70 from motor to wheel... ;-)
[10:34:17] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: gears with 2 teeth? :)
[10:34:33] <psha[work]> next one would be gear with one tooth
[10:34:51] <psha[work]> and last and most difficult - gear without teeth and you'll be on your way to nirvana
[10:35:18] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6587
[10:36:04] <Loetmichel> and a litte planetary gear fpr the machine of my workbuddy to geht the steps/mm straight:
[10:36:13] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: let me find some info about.
[10:36:21] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11714
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[10:37:00] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: there's a well-known trick, don't say there's no Santa as well. :-(
[10:37:05] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: you dont HAVE to.
[10:37:16] <Loetmichel> there IS no santa
[10:37:39] <Loetmichel> ant no easter bunny ;-)
[10:37:42] <Loetmichel> and
[10:38:09] <Loetmichel> and childs have nothing to do with bees and flowers or storcks
[10:38:10] <archivist_emc> ait no sanity clause
[10:38:50] <Loetmichel> archivist: repeat with ohter words please
[10:38:51] <Loetmichel> other
[10:39:22] <archivist_emc> "aint no sanity clause" a Marx brothers joke
[10:39:39] <Loetmichel> ah.
[10:40:17] <Loetmichel> have to look taht up, mary brothers were top slightly before i was born ;-)
[10:41:18] <archivist_emc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzfiBMRDc5Y
[10:42:45] <Loetmichel> ah, nice
[10:42:47] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[10:44:08] <Loetmichel> [12:34:27] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: gears with 2 teeth? :) <- no, not 2 teeth. 2 steps als in 4 gears put together to get a greater tario
[10:44:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5546
[10:45:04] <Loetmichel> did that make it clear?
[10:45:17] <Loetmichel> made
[10:46:20] <Loetmichel> ( i made a little mistake: the forst big gear shouldnt have been as big as the second, 'cause it will grind in the wheel axle ;-)
[10:46:32] <Loetmichel> s/forst/first
[10:51:36] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: yes.
[10:52:18] <Loetmichel> already corrected
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[12:02:03] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: remembered how to explain that. but don't want to enter into flame war.
[12:02:41] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: i'm usually just kidding ;)
[12:03:19] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: I should mean new gears which are made in a special manner. If you will ever need it, you will have found the information.
[12:05:48] <mazafaka_> untill you can vary the height of the teeth in the gear, you can slightly change the ratio changing the diistance between the axes.
[12:12:29] <mazafaka_> or just create new ones with - one with reduced height and a cut-off depths, another one is opposite
[12:16:29] <mazafaka_> For new ones which are about to be majically created (one is cut alittle into the depths, another isn't cut off in the depths), no need to change the distance between axes. This way, the ratio can be *only slightly* ajusted for given m (module) and n (number of teeth) and nominal diameter d = m x n
[12:21:44] <mazafaka_> they will slide ton side-by-side but height-by-depth - although will lack in the maximal torque which is capable to be transmitted by such a modified a little bit gear.
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[12:46:45] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: i'd agree with you, it's impossible to explain anything to him :)
[12:47:09] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: i bet it's caused by lack of waffles in his diet...
[12:48:35] <mazafaka_> psha[work]: ritracker.org torrent, курсовое проектирование деталей машин author Кузьмин А.В. book 1, page 100
[12:48:35] <jdhNC> or barbecued porcines
[12:49:12] <mazafaka_> Смешение рейки для устранения подрезания, тут для прочности пример
[12:50:02] <psha[work]> mazafaka_: russian in private pls
[12:50:02] <mazafaka_> here it's for not cutting deep and improve the rigidity
[12:51:23] <mazafaka_> http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3074194
[12:51:33] <jdhNC> Non-Contact Displacement Sensor with 1 nm (0.00004 mil) Resolution
[12:51:51] <mazafaka_> oh, sorry!! http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3322778
[12:52:40] <mazafaka_> someone here said "who cares for changes after backlash elimination with encoders"?
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[12:55:50] <mazafaka_> no-symmetric corrigation gives ratio changed from the nominal n1 /n2 to more specific and exact d1 / d2.
[13:00:08] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: that MAY be possible with helical gears where you can use the slant of the gear to adjust the ratio by slipping on it, have to think it through, bur still NOT for straight gears
[13:01:14] <Loetmichel> and: i am (west) german, i dont speak Russian nor can i read kyrillic
[13:02:55] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: stop bugging me with it. these corrigated gears look so scary that I may thing of buggy things, of scary things in the night.
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[13:08:30] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: why restricting yourself without even seeing whole the theory?
[13:10:17] <Loetmichel> cause i know newton and friends. This theory hast to be in the same corner as "free energy" and overunity-machines.
[13:11:34] <mazafaka_> Loetmichel: stop telling this to me. Read whole the theory before. We sometimes make such gears.
[13:12:21] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: no chance :D
[13:12:29] <mazafaka_> i have no time to find something in English. Or it will be easy and clear to understand this all.
[13:12:30] <Loetmichel> psha[work]: looks like it
[13:12:32] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:12:46] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: i'd advise you to steal some technology ideas from him and patent them
[13:14:49] <Loetmichel> psha[work]: not possible. First i am against patents of all sorts 'cause they do the opposite of war intended with them: the dont protect the Engineer for development costs but are used to push newcomers out of the market. second: only working ideas are patetable
[13:15:09] <mazafaka_> psha[work]: and Loetmichel It's lLast time I'm telling to you, unsymmetric one. Real and nominal dividing diameters start to differ. the only chance to calculate the ratio is d1 / d2
[13:15:23] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: you may attach channel log to patent application as a proof that it works
[13:15:34] <mazafaka_> I right now need to go
[13:15:39] <mazafaka_> it's evening
[13:15:45] <psha[work]> mazafaka_: bb
[13:16:28] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: also it won't conflict with your moral prinicples since that patent won't stop any newcomers ;)
[13:17:45] <mazafaka_> ah, it's not noiminal ovelapping side-to-side, ok, need to go
[13:21:26] <skunkworks_> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/129239
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[13:23:31] <Loetmichel> psha[work]: youre right. But why bother to spend money without getting something valuable in return? ;-)
[13:24:43] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: hm, it's very simple - when you'll get this patent sue microsoft for using gear on some icons for settings file types!
[13:25:37] <psha[work]> it'll cover both you expenses on patent, education grant for mazafaka_ and your life for some decades
[13:28:40] <Loetmichel> psha[work]: great idea. so i end like SCO?
[13:28:41] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:31:58] <psha[work]> maybe you'd end like nortel: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/nortel-announces-the-winning-bidder-of-its-patent-portfolio-for-a-purchase-price-of-us45-billion-2011-06-30?reflink=MW_news_stmp
[13:33:20] <mazafaka_> uh, back to the computer for several minutes
[13:36:16] <skunkworks_> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/129325
[13:42:27] <mazafaka_> Glancing at my pants, she said: "l think you've got a boner."
[13:46:05] <mazafaka_> And then we talked, and I realised the secrets of mechanics.
[13:50:41] <mazafaka_> And the love is the answer. And the love is God.
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[14:06:20] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_: whats that stuff called that you are smoking? must be good!
[14:09:56] <cradek> skunkworks_: it sometimes violates the accel constraint? wow.
[14:12:25] <mazafaka_> maybe
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[14:13:08] <mazafaka_> i meant to say to Loetmichel. I just have happy days.
[14:14:36] <mazafaka_> improved my back, feeling of balance, balancing on the skateboard for some moments, think it's easy. But lacking money to buy some parts to my mountain bicycle.
[14:15:22] <mazafaka_> I'll go take those deep ponds onto myself. they are above the center of the 26" wheels.
[14:16:44] <mazafaka_> oh, just a cup of coffee maybe.
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[14:22:04] <mazafaka_> Singing kindergarten. Remind me of a situation I came to the kindergarten and tthe children are singing there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waacof2saZw&feature=mh_lolz&list=LLDlApa2NnL2E
[14:22:24] <mazafaka_> but nice colours
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[16:19:56] <mazafaka> have just cleaned the mountain bike from dirt under the shower. It was almost like this: http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/ilya-e-g/view/341889/?page=2
[16:20:58] <syyl> i think that picture is better :D
[16:21:00] <mazafaka> You know what, silicone spray made front fork very slicky, and it's still relatively clean. Oil or grease would attract too much of dust.
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[16:21:28] <mazafaka> It was truly a discovery for me to also lubricate the chain with silicone spray.
[16:22:06] <mazafaka> (Along with cleaning the details with the wash detergent or soap.)
[16:23:17] <mazafaka> Chain is very clean just after the shower and when it will be dry i will lubricate it again. I have bought some 100 g. spray for about USD 3.5
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[16:34:44] <mazafaka> What a tubes of the curtains! Almost perfect set for some CNC machine...
[16:36:04] <mazafaka> for wood working and plastics, for some aluminum maybe.
[16:39:57] <mazafaka> two bronze half-pipes could squeeze the tubes, three ball screws, and my mini-drill from Skil Tool...
[16:40:46] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: I also wanted to ask of something else, do you get payed for some orders to make something out of plywood or plastics...
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[16:46:43] <jdhNC> I just got an email for a scope that does 5 channels @45GHz
[16:47:13] <awallin> that'll fill your new 2tb drive faster than you can say "scope"
[16:47:35] <Tom_itx> jdhNC for free?
[16:48:09] <jdhNC> not liekly... it has a 'request quote' link but I don't want to hear from their sales people.
[16:48:23] <jdhNC> http://www.lecroy.com/Oscilloscope/OscilloscopeSeries.aspx?mseries=332&capid=102&mid=1017&id=DO99PW6N2M5DZDNIXJ1O&cid=1601
[16:50:20] <mazafaka> it can be vertical, about 1600x1600xsomething
[16:54:52] <mikegg> anybody have good results with USB oscilloscopes?
[16:55:23] <awallin> we have two picoScopes, they work (I'm not using them myself)
[16:55:28] <awallin> around 1keur I think
[16:55:45] <jdhNC> if you don't expect too much out of them, they should be fine.
[16:57:07] <mikegg> can
[16:57:18] <mikegg> 't you pick them up for around $200
[16:57:46] <mikegg> http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=USB+oscilloscope&hl=en&prmd=ivns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1600&bih=1139&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=6992334428749753859&sa=X&ei=-nwcTsyzIeu70AG4jdW3Bw&ved=0CHEQ8wIwAA
[16:57:59] <mikegg> like that guy? total garbage, I wonder?
[16:58:28] <mikegg> 25 Mhz? not too bad
[16:58:38] <awallin> 2-channel 100MHz picoscope is 782euros at elfa (not the cheapest of places). 8-bits I assume. also has a trig channel
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[17:07:17] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[17:08:35] <mazafaka> can i use skateboard bearings and pipes of usual steel, not hardened one
[17:08:57] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: i GOT payed for "individual parts" but tat was at my last employment for a R/C-model manufacturer
[17:09:11] <mazafaka> to even try something with aluminum/
[17:09:32] <Loetmichel> at the company NOW i have to brim my Mill to the company to do some prototyping work ;-)
[17:09:43] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: thanks, i just imagine vertical tabletop mill about 1600x1600xsomething
[17:10:33] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: you CAN use skateboard bearings. about the Steel/aluminium tubes: may work... about 10 minutes
[17:10:43] <mazafaka> you have to bring it to the company office and work there?
[17:11:02] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: so, hardening needed
[17:11:03] <jdhNC> his car is thier storage area
[17:11:14] <mazafaka> oh
[17:11:38] <Loetmichel> i have used hardened precision ground round bars (NO tube) and they got 1mm "flats" after about 100 times the bearinges rolled over them
[17:11:49] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: bad boy!
[17:12:13] <jdhNC> not me, I had my waffles.
[17:12:26] <Loetmichel> no, i just happened to have my Mill in the car from a quadcopter convention a few weeks ago
[17:12:27] <mazafaka> so, what to use, special rails
[17:13:00] <Loetmichel> so i got my car to the back entrance of the company and milled some prototype parts
[17:13:31] <mazafaka> I do not know much of the standards de-facto of the rails used by CNC enthusiasts.
[17:13:47] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: you can use normal ground stock bars
[17:14:01] <mazafaka> It would be great to read some good article with pictures about it.
[17:14:02] <Loetmichel> the flats are not bad. IF thex dont get much bigger
[17:14:14] <Loetmichel> so tube is a no-go
[17:14:27] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: what are "ground stock bars" ??
[17:14:57] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: the tubes are from the curtain, stainless steel, with thick walls
[17:15:00] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
[17:15:08] <Loetmichel> that is round ground bar
[17:15:46] <mazafaka> polished and hardened round steel bar. Hope its not steel 20 but at least Steel 45
[17:16:04] <mazafaka> with 0.45% of C
[17:16:25] <Loetmichel> you can buy them here as "silver stel hardened precision ground rods, diameter ranging from 8 mm up to 50mm
[17:16:37] <mazafaka> and the price?
[17:16:52] <syyl> pretty cheap
[17:17:04] <mazafaka> ha
[17:17:11] <syyl> but anything from straight
[17:17:15] <Loetmichel> cheap, if i rememper correctly i payed about 20 euros for four meters of 16mm bar
[17:17:22] <mazafaka> cheap like 10 jeans maybe, or a month of work for me
[17:17:38] <mazafaka> oh, it's OK
[17:17:44] <syyl> most bars are bend from the running through centerless grinding
[17:18:39] <Loetmichel> syyl: that is not a problem, because the bars shouldnt be witout support anyways
[17:18:40] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[17:18:56] <mazafaka> it's a good time waste, creating this all out of plywood and parts. And it's needed for work.
[17:18:57] <syyl> depends on the construction ;)
[17:19:11] <Loetmichel> and the supports like in the Picture every 150mm will take care of the bending
[17:19:19] <Loetmichel> the more supports the better
[17:19:21] <syyl> for sure
[17:19:34] <mazafaka> And I have always been the one to blame... it's a sin... (what i'm trying to do. :(
[17:20:08] <Loetmichel> pleas talk english
[17:20:27] <Loetmichel> i can read the words but not make any sense of it
[17:20:35] <mazafaka> yeah
[17:21:35] <mazafaka> And at mills which mill the metal, what kind of rails are used?
[17:21:53] <syyl> real machines?
[17:22:10] <syyl> linear ways with ball/cylindrical bearings
[17:22:15] <mazafaka> Is it like a usual mill (e.g. turret mill) - but without all those heavy gears which are needed for the feed rates.
[17:22:25] <mazafaka> ssy
[17:22:51] <syyl> but there are also machines with dovetail/box ways
[17:23:18] <mazafaka> syyl: real mills with 1500x500 tabletop capable move to, say, 1000x1000 and about 500 up and down
[17:23:30] <mazafaka> yeah, all right.
[17:23:51] <syyl> for heavy operations sliding ways are more common
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[17:24:11] <mazafaka> what if the roung bar is welded carefully alongside to somewhat rigid?
[17:24:27] <mazafaka> yeah...
[17:24:33] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: then its bend like a banana
[17:24:57] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: no, without overheating, with small wire, very carefully.
[17:25:04] <Loetmichel> screwq it to a support (every 60mm or so) THAT will do
[17:25:13] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: then it WILL bend
[17:25:19] <mazafaka> oh, heh, that's it
[17:25:24] <Loetmichel> wemding without bending is impossible
[17:25:29] <Loetmichel> welding
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[17:25:49] <syyl> i would prefer square material and ball bearings for a cheap homemade way
[17:25:49] <Loetmichel> nearliy impossible
[17:25:57] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: well, it is possible but virtually takes an eternity to do
[17:26:08] <mazafaka> yeah, very long process.
[17:27:15] <mazafaka> couple of bars could probably take a day - and only dots, not even tiny lines
[17:27:44] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: but how are these bars hardened?
[17:28:08] <syyl> i think inductive
[17:28:12] <syyl> and ground afterwards
[17:28:14] <Loetmichel> [19:19:06] <mazafaka> it's a good time waste, creating this all out of plywood and parts. And it's needed for work. <- what do you meant here?
[17:28:22] <mazafaka> We harder some bushings so as even good fine file can't make a scratch
[17:28:43] <Loetmichel> these bars are only hadened the outer 2 or three mm
[17:28:59] <Loetmichel> so i think syyl is right: inductive hardened and then ground
[17:29:17] <syyl> *centerless ground
[17:29:30] <jdhNC> that much? not just .5mm or less?
[17:29:46] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: hmmm
[17:29:54] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: i also spent a lot of time doing something at home, something careful and precise. but I missed lessons in the university to do it. And you, instead, having money for such a work. I wish I can do the same.
[17:30:02] <Loetmichel> i triede to cut them with my hacksaw
[17:30:10] <Loetmichel> the first mm: no chance
[17:30:14] <syyl> wenn surfacing it on a lathe, you can see, that the hard layer is about a mm
[17:30:19] <Loetmichel> had to use a angle grinder
[17:30:29] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: yeah, surface hardening
[17:30:37] <Loetmichel> but about 1 to 2 mm inside its normal mild steel
[17:31:03] <mazafaka> jdhNC: and Loetmichel usually 0.25 to 1.2 mm
[17:31:14] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: money? where?
[17:31:24] <Loetmichel> i am a poor guy also ;-)
[17:31:42] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: no, you're happy and I was like an outlaw
[17:32:15] * psha passes some Happy Waffles (tm) to Loetmichel
[17:32:59] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: we sometimes had a rough schedule on money to be spend, to buy food
[17:33:28] <Loetmichel> psha: thy
[17:33:34] <Loetmichel> <- munching ;-)
[17:33:56] <mazafaka> because t's common in Russia to pay miser, no one cares about normal money runover in our country
[17:34:41] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: to be honest: im not that poor. i have a good job, my wive earns enough to pay for the rent and so we can get the one or another extra.
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[17:34:52] <Loetmichel> but i am in no way rich or anything
[17:35:28] <jdhNC> and you have a cnc machine in your car.
[17:35:31] <mazafaka> what if use hardened square pipes which are supported all along the inner edge and two inner surfaces?
[17:35:40] <mazafaka> But how to harden ones?
[17:36:09] <syyl> hardened square tubing?
[17:36:13] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: tubes WILL bend
[17:36:15] <syyl> dont think that tey exist :D
[17:36:24] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: what kind of rent? I imagined you lived in a cottage maybe.
[17:36:26] <syyl> ground and hardened flat stock
[17:36:51] <jdhNC> hardened suppported linear rails?
[17:37:00] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: yeah, could fill it with concrete
[17:37:12] <mazafaka> jdhNC: maybe
[17:37:19] <Loetmichel> the photo above the bars are under a great extend of pressure: the sled is about 0,5mm bigger than the width of the bars
[17:37:35] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: 4 room flat
[17:37:41] <syyl> linear ways would be the simplest way
[17:37:45] <Loetmichel> 100m^2
[17:37:57] <Loetmichel> syyl: and the expensivest
[17:37:58] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[17:38:12] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: two-room flat, paying about USD 100 a month for everything, the flat is my.
[17:38:32] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: put a 0 to that
[17:38:36] <Loetmichel> and make it euros
[17:38:43] <Loetmichel> and just the cold rent
[17:38:51] <mazafaka> but big flat, ceilings are about 3200 or so from the floor
[17:39:00] <Loetmichel> + garage rent + power + water + heating and so on
[17:39:11] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: but
[17:39:32] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: i meant for everything. Also, food, 4 cats and a dog
[17:39:49] <mazafaka> and parents say live alone
[17:39:56] <Loetmichel> my wife and i have about 1500 eur a month fiexd cost for rent and houseing and phone
[17:40:48] <Loetmichel> plus some loans and food and so on we are at ~2500 eurs a month which are gone
[17:40:52] <mazafaka> garage, ambar at the yard of the block of flats, two gardens
[17:41:18] <mazafaka> and you two get 3000 per month?
[17:41:26] <Loetmichel> little bit more
[17:41:59] <mazafaka> i get 300 per month or sometimes 600 per month
[17:42:03] <Loetmichel> my wife has about 2000 and i have about 1400 after taxes ;-)
[17:42:39] <Loetmichel> so jes, we CAN buy the occasionally "extra"
[17:42:49] <mazafaka> i plan to have about 700 per month and spend monthly about 250 of it
[17:42:51] <Loetmichel> but we wont get rich fastt ;-)
[17:43:04] <mazafaka> yeah
[17:43:39] <Loetmichel> and if you see my earnings slip at the end of the month you would cry.
[17:44:18] <mazafaka> i live the same way, it's only *about* to stop these days...
[17:44:19] <Loetmichel> my boss pasy me 2800 eur a month... after taxes and social ionsurance there are 1425 eur left :-(
[17:44:28] <mazafaka> I even can't live somehow else
[17:45:11] <mazafaka> oh, our taxes are maybe 60 out of 600
[17:45:58] <Loetmichel> thats the problem
[17:45:59] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[17:46:02] <mazafaka> It's nice that I now understand what is common in these machines.
[17:46:33] <mazafaka> Will think again I don't know anything but in fact I know some useful info.
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[17:48:03] <mazafaka> these ends of the bars in the plywood have less diameter, right? http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
[17:49:33] <psha> mazafaka: our taxes are ~35%
[17:49:38] <psha> but nobody pay them
[17:49:50] <Loetmichel> no, why?
[17:50:14] <mazafaka> some people here (women) can get 250 or 350 per month, but pay about 150 for apartment (it's not rent, they are owners) - plus the light, water, heating
[17:50:19] <Loetmichel> the are just cut to lengh and pusend throug to the other sinde
[17:50:25] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: just thought so
[17:50:26] <Loetmichel> side
[17:50:37] <Loetmichel> and then secired with some drops of CA ;-)
[17:51:24] <Loetmichel> secured
[17:51:26] <mazafaka> psha: i don't quite know how much the taxes are. I can have 21000 and get 17000 as 'clean' money
[17:52:01] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: it just looks as they are tightly fit in there
[17:52:24] <Loetmichel> they do
[17:52:30] <Loetmichel> 16mm bar, 16mm hole
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[17:52:41] <Loetmichel> it IS a tight fit
[17:53:11] <mazafaka> uh... everything is precise
[17:53:42] <IchGuckLive> Hi al
[17:53:59] <IchGuckLive> last EVA of Shuttle Astronauts on course http://www.ustream.tv/channel-popup/nasa-hd-tv
[17:54:15] <mazafaka> need to go clean those tubes of the curtains
[17:54:40] <mazafaka> they are still in limestone dust after the repair at home.
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[17:56:23] <mazafaka> So, just buying the parts and getting all together. I still remember the deficiency of whatever in soviet union. Grandparents' talks when I was kid, and so forth. Now, everything can be bought. Don't even need to occasionally buy spare parts.
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[18:14:25] <mazafaka> I sometimes http://www.xs650chopper.com/, think of jewelries and idolatry, and find some good calm thoughts of my motorcycles which will be ready for the photo session soon...
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[18:18:02] <mel> I am using pncconf, and getting an error message "Servo tuning is not finished" when I click on the test/tune axis button
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[18:32:00] <PCW> mel: probably means that pncconf feature is not finished
[18:32:44] <JT-Work> logger[psha]: log
[18:35:15] <mel> ok, so I'll have to manually tune the servo axis then
[18:39:05] <mazafaka> JT-Work: What have you just made?
[18:40:03] <mazafaka> logger[mah]: log
[18:40:03] <logger[mah]> mazafaka: Log stored at http://emc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23emc/2011-07-12.html
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[18:50:39] <JT-Work> Me?
[18:51:11] <psha> :D
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[18:54:01] <danimal_garage> hi
[18:54:24] <JT-Work> Hi
[18:54:32] <danimal_garage> how goes it
[18:56:42] <JT-Work> mel: you might want to read this thread http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,38/id,11323/lang,english/
[18:57:13] <JT-Work> ah, we just had a run off and broke something small but over all I think they were happy with the machine
[18:57:32] <JT-Work> dam programmers... oh shit that is me :/
[19:00:44] <danimal_garage> as long as it wasnt a body part that broke
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[19:01:22] <anonimasu> JT-Work: question, how did the runoff happen? was it configuration error?
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[19:16:09] <JT-Work> the runoff is running 50 parts in the machine... the error that happened was PEBKAC
[19:16:39] <JT-Work> Dan, just a guide pin broken on one of the part nests
[19:18:48] <anonimasu> I see :)
[19:18:52] <anonimasu> im dead scared of my lathe running off
[19:18:58] <anonimasu> (servo runaway)
[19:22:13] <anonimasu> well, too aware that at 250mm/s my bed will take like 2.5 seconds to pass
[19:23:12] <skunkworks_> anonimasu: there are some extra pins in the pid componant - like saturation and such. so if the pid loop saturates for x amount of time - it could trigger a estop
[19:23:22] <skunkworks_> some things to look at.
[19:23:52] <anonimasu> im planning out for heidenhain digital scales later on
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[19:24:02] <anonimasu> so I can use them as feedback
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[19:25:07] <anonimasu> tho, technically with ac motors, loss of encoder means loss of commutation information
[19:25:17] <anonimasu> so they shouldnt be able to run off if that happens
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[19:27:44] <andypugh> ROFL. Well, rocking fractionally back and forth in mirth anyway. I have just been pointed at a fragment of my own code in answer to a mailing list query. :-)
[19:28:17] <anonimasu> I wonder why my sincos board signals error.
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[19:29:13] <mrsunshine> ough ripping walls and floor out of the "out house?" is a dirty job :/
[19:29:20] <mrsunshine> specialy as it has all sunken into the freakin ground
[19:34:38] <anonimasu> mhm, the sincos converter handles 70mhz :]
[19:35:04] <anonimasu> 32768 counts/rev
[19:35:53] <anonimasu> seems like I need to scale it for emc to handle that..
[19:36:28] <jdhNC> divide by 32^5
[19:36:37] <anonimasu> huh?
[19:36:55] <anonimasu> why?
[19:37:40] <anonimasu> 8192counts, and in quadrature 32768
[19:37:45] <jdhNC> it was supposed be 32^3, but it is no longer even funny to me.
[19:37:50] <jdhNC> so, nevermind.
[19:38:20] * anonimasu ponders if the mesa boards will count that
[19:38:23] <anonimasu> at 2000rpm
[19:38:54] <anonimasu> the servos should do 5krpm tho..
[19:39:13] <anonimasu> but the drives wont push them that far
[19:53:16] <mel> does the latest version of pncconf have the test/tune axis button working?
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[19:57:40] <alexander> hey
[20:00:29] <alexander> anyone using a geckodrive 540 with emc2, and have an opinion on the quality of the product/how well it works in your setup?
[20:01:55] <PCW> The mesa quadrature counters will count up to about 16 MHz...
[20:05:19] <andypugh> G540 is that all-in-one box?
[20:05:59] <andypugh> I understand it to work well, though I think some folk have had a bit of trouble with the watchdog. I can't remember why, user error I seem to recall.
[20:06:47] <alexander> yah, it's their boards-on-a-backplane product.. I was thinking of using it to drive my taig
[20:07:02] <syyl> uhm
[20:07:10] <syyl> will emc run on a virtual machine?
[20:07:13] <syyl> for simulation only
[20:07:24] <alexander> http://www.linuxcnc.org/wiki/uploads/G540.stepconf <- looks like there's a working config already
[20:07:58] <andypugh> syyl: Yes, I do it regularly. It complains about realtime delays, and won't run actual hardware.
[20:08:15] <syyl> no modifications needed?
[20:09:32] <andypugh> No, just a standard live-CD install runs fine in VMWare
[20:09:42] <syyl> *jippie*
[20:09:45] <syyl> thanks :D
[20:09:50] <syyl> hmm
[20:10:03] <syyl> walk to the basement to get the cd, or redownload it...
[20:10:50] <andypugh> OK, now to try unplugging the 7i64 cable and seeing if it causes a problem with sda1 every time...
[20:11:33] <andypugh> Why does it feel like this? http://xkcd.com/242/
[20:11:39] <alexander> not an EMC question but: anyone have an opinion on stepper holding torque vs. thread per inch/machine size? I've heard that with the Taig 20 TPI screws, it'd be better to run each axis on small (166 oz-in) vs. medium (280 oz-in) steppre
[20:11:40] <danimal_garage> speaking of, i still get realtime delays
[20:12:04] <syyl> xkcd is just epic :D
[20:12:50] <mrsunshine> alexander, more power == better? :OP
[20:12:52] <andypugh> alexander: Do you know what that is in Nm?
[20:12:53] <mrsunshine> in all cases ;P
[20:13:19] <mrsunshine> atleast thats my philosophy :P
[20:13:27] <andypugh> The little steppers will spin a lot faster. I can see the argument.
[20:13:36] <mrsunshine> ahh true =)
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[20:13:45] <mrsunshine> andypugh, bigger steppers, more voltage == better ? ;P
[20:14:02] <danimal_garage> bigger steppers suck
[20:14:12] <andypugh> My big 3-stack stepper are actually not any better than the little one on the cross-slide (where there isn't space for a 3-stack)
[20:14:15] <danimal_garage> i had 1300oz/in steppers, they were slow as hell
[20:14:25] <alexander> andypugh: 1.172 Nm I think
[20:14:26] <danimal_garage> 100ipm max
[20:14:30] <alexander> andypugh: is 166
[20:14:36] <danimal_garage> thats 500rpm
[20:14:51] <andypugh> I think that for a Taig with fine-pitch screws the 166 probabky are a better fit.
[20:14:56] <mrsunshine> ive got 1.85 on my sieg X1 mill
[20:14:59] <mrsunshine> 1.85nm
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[20:15:10] <mrsunshine> spinns fast enough, tho could use some anti resonance thingie =)
[20:16:02] <andypugh> The 3.5Nm ones on my lathe/mill are rather slow.
[20:16:31] <mrsunshine> but shouldnt the frame size matter more then the power of them ?
[20:16:46] <mrsunshine> holding torque*
[20:17:05] <alexander> andypugh: I'm thinking of going this route: http://www.interinar.com/vexta-pk266-02a.html
[20:17:05] <danimal_garage> mine were a nema 43
[20:17:13] <danimal_garage> some oddball size
[20:17:16] <alexander> the mounts I have for the taig are the factory nema 23 mounts.
[20:17:58] <andypugh> yeah, when you get above NEMA 23 you are well into diminishing returns. I have not heard much good about 34s
[20:18:14] <andypugh> So I can imagine 43 being very clunky.
[20:18:43] <danimal_garage> mine wouldn't keep step
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[20:19:15] <danimal_garage> i couldn't use a gecko drive with them, the microstepping was too much
[20:20:16] <danimal_garage> even my crappy undersized servos are way better
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[20:22:31] <andypugh> Should be ideal for a Taig.
[20:23:00] <andypugh> You can always experiment with bigger ones if you have a problem, but I think those would be the best match.
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[20:24:49] <mrsunshine> ive found the problem ive had with the steppers is not the motor, its the driver
[20:25:21] <mrsunshine> first driver i had i got like 300mm/min with MAX and they were weak ass, with the new drivers i got 1200mm/min and they were still going strong
[20:25:25] <mrsunshine> same voltage and everything
[20:26:44] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[20:26:52] <Loetmichel> maybe wrong configured?
[20:27:15] <mrsunshine> maybe, but the difference was so freakin huge i couldnt believe it =)
[20:27:15] <Loetmichel> as in : wrong currend dialed in @ the drivers?
[20:27:55] <Loetmichel> or wrong logic (inverted) for the "sleep" pin? (happend to me once, took a while to discover)
[20:28:24] <mrsunshine> when thinking about it they might ahve been wired differently, series vs parallel
[20:28:28] <mrsunshine> the motors
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[20:28:36] <mrsunshine> so that would give me roughtly half speed in serial
[20:29:19] <mrsunshine> as the higher mh would need higher voltage to drive at the same speed
[20:29:44] <mazafaka> downloaded some postprocessors for !@#$%CAM from some forum. They are with mistakes and can use g00 z -0.5 where actually at least go1 needed with lower feedrate
[20:31:03] <mazafaka> oh... what a nasty intellectual adventure... to freaking with it.
[20:32:19] <mazafaka> and postprocessor dealth with the inner descriptions and commands, prevailing the creation of the g-code itself. <-- (And creates some weird complicated g-code.)
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[20:36:00] <syyl_> *installs emc2 on virtualbox*
[20:37:04] <anonimasu> mazafaka: mastercam works good, and you can edit the posts with a bit of work
[20:37:39] <anonimasu> my sincos boards errors, and I have no idea why..
[20:37:48] <anonimasu> it outputs proper ttl data tho..
[20:38:01] <anonimasu> maybe amplitude monitoring is freaking out at my signal levels since I cant configure them
[20:38:17] <mazafaka> anonimasu: we use another proprietary thingie
[20:38:59] <mazafaka> I'll try to find some standart iso or rs274 postprocessor
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[20:42:13] <mazafaka> i also can apply some work to these paths for Lathe. although there are problems with arcs and radii
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[21:02:15] <syyl_> yeah
[21:02:21] <syyl_> emc works in virtualbox :D
[21:02:34] <syyl_> not to fast
[21:02:37] <syyl_> but it works
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[21:06:33] <andypugh> Anybody got any clues about this? http://pastebin.com/uhBgD4sU
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[21:07:32] <andypugh> I am trying to test the fault trapping of a Mesa driver. I am unplugging the cable from the Mesa card to the board. Every time I do it I get that pastebin error.
[21:08:25] <andypugh> (and the machine dies.
[21:08:54] <andypugh> It _might_ be coincidence. I need to be less consistent about time between starting it up and unplugging the cable.
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[21:21:42] <andypugh> I think perhaps an infinite loop with (1 << j) is the problem.
[21:21:43] <andypugh> Oops
[21:24:44] <PCW> I suppose hot plugging or hot unplugging the cable could cause a small glitch in the 5V supply
[21:26:35] <PCW> Bu I don't think the 7I64 draws more than 50 mA or so or has more than 50 uF of 5V PS capacitance
[21:26:45] <PCW> s/Bu/But/
[21:26:46] <andypugh> No, checking for a set bit using an infinite loop is probably the problem...
[21:27:05] <andypugh> for (j = 0 ; (f & (1 << j)) == 0 ; j++){}
[21:27:57] <andypugh> I looked at it for ages last night, and persuaded myself that there was no way to get to that point unless a bit was set. Forgetting I was masking it so as to not do multiple reports..
[21:28:42] <andypugh> It is very odd that the error it triggers claims to be related to sda1 though. I needed to do a backup anyway...
[21:32:57] <PCW> (the transfer errors are probably less serious than command not cleared)
[21:32:59] <PCW> The good thing about transfer errors is that they are channel specific
[21:33:01] <PCW> That is a strange error but maybe it hangs the system in an interrupt context
[21:33:02] <PCW> that the SDA interrupt is held up so long the linux driver notices (just a WAG)
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[21:37:08] <PCW> (so long that)
[21:41:27] <andypugh> PCW: Did you see the pastebin?
[21:41:29] <andypugh> http://pastebin.com/uhBgD4sU
[21:42:05] <andypugh> I am curious what happens if you bitshift a million places to the left, actually.
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[21:45:48] <PCW> probably nothing
[21:48:30] <andypugh> Well, it seems to cause a huge problem, but that might just be the infinite loop.
[21:49:10] <PCW> Yeah pretty strange but maybe you slowed everthni else down to the point that normal driver timeouts are getting triggered
[21:49:27] <andypugh> And with j being an int, eventually it will increment into a negative pattern, I supsect, so then it will be a huge negative bitshift..
[21:51:12] <PCW> I presume the compiler truncates the shifts to data size but dont know
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[22:34:26] <JT-Shop_> You got to love it when your customers e-mail you asking for an invoice so they can pay you :)
[22:35:03] <alexander> haha
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[22:49:12] <danimal_garage> i get paid before i even write the order down :)
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[22:59:32] <JT-Shop_> Hi Dan
[23:16:17] <danimal_garage> hi John
[23:17:17] <danimal_garage> hows the shop coming
[23:19:20] <JT-Shop_> very slow
[23:19:36] <JT-Shop_> need to sand just a bit and caulk a bit then start painting
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[23:19:49] Farthen is now known as finn
[23:20:46] <danimal_garage> sounds like work
[23:21:22] <JT-Shop_> http://imagebin.org/162824
[23:21:39] <JT-Shop_> I've been playing with this in SW instead of working
[23:22:19] <danimal_garage> nice!
[23:22:34] <danimal_garage> i wish i had time to make a probe
[23:22:41] <JT-Shop_> me too
[23:22:48] <danimal_garage> i want to finish my motorcycle first :)
[23:22:58] <JT-Shop_> I want to finish my shop first
[23:22:59] <andypugh> JT-Shop_: Sketchup?
[23:23:08] <danimal_garage> right now i gotta work my but off to get a ton of parts off to anodizing
[23:23:10] <JT-Shop_> SolidWorks
[23:23:22] <andypugh> No, can't be, Sketchup doesn't do curves.
[23:23:24] JT-Shop_ is now known as JT-Shop
[23:23:35] <andypugh> Looks a bit "plain"
[23:23:42] <JT-Shop> exploded view from solidworks
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[23:24:07] <andypugh> Let me get an Inventor screenshot up:
[23:24:12] <JT-Shop> ok
[23:24:35] <andypugh> I might take a little while.
[23:24:37] * JT-Shop goes to turn on all the fluff in SW
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[23:27:29] <andypugh> I am not really talking about fluff.
[23:29:50] <danimal_garage> then what you talkin bout willis?
[23:31:39] <andypugh> It's hard to say.
[23:32:44] * JT-Shop gives up on fluff too many choices
[23:33:24] <andypugh> I was just talking about the normal modelling display anyway. I run under VMware in compatibility graphics..
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[23:37:17] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/162825
[23:37:59] <JT-Shop> I just turned on shadow and put in a spot light ;)
[23:38:42] <JT-Shop> plain displays make parts faster for me :)
[23:39:43] <andypugh> http://imagebin.org/162826
[23:40:16] <andypugh> It's plain, but somehow "nicer" in a way I can't seem to describe.
[23:41:23] <andypugh> (And there is a problem with running in VMWare where one part always ends up pure white..)
[23:42:02] <JT-Shop> seems to be the same except the edges are white instead of black like I have mine set and the bg color is different
[23:42:30] <andypugh> I think that the edge colour is actually a function of the part colour.
[23:43:21] <andypugh> The "bronze" leadscrew nut has brown edges. (and is actually bronze-ey when running under actual windows)
[23:43:24] <JT-Shop> I can set mine to anything I like
[23:44:18] <andypugh> I am not trying to fight any battles here, just commenting that I have an irrational preference.
[23:44:31] <andypugh> It might be that the outlines are thinner, too.
[23:47:00] <JT-Shop> what's up with the gantry jog? does he need to be in joint mode or something?
[23:47:09] <andypugh> Who?
[23:47:50] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,10/id,10443/limit,6/limitstart,6/lang,english/#11479
[23:48:07] <andypugh> Aye, just there.
[23:48:19] <andypugh> Odd.
[23:48:30] <andypugh> I am not at all sure how pyvcp hooks in to HAL.
[23:49:00] <JT-Shop> could he have different accelerations on the two axis?
[23:49:20] <JT-Shop> time for me to wander in and start dinner for the gang
[23:49:25] <andypugh> Could be that
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