#emc | Logs for 2011-07-05

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[00:00:14] <Valen> cant really turn it by hand easily
[00:00:39] <andypugh> Access, or stiffness?
[00:00:52] <Valen> bit of both
[00:00:58] <Valen> its fairly tight
[00:01:06] <Valen> access is ok but theres no handle
[00:01:14] <Valen> can only turn by means of vice grips
[00:01:27] <andypugh> Tight sounds wrong
[00:02:33] <Valen> i don't recall it being there before
[00:02:46] <Valen> the mount recently came loose so I wonder if it was put on out of square
[00:03:10] <andypugh> Out of square, or offset.
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[00:03:28] <Valen> something like that
[00:03:45] <andypugh> I would move the nut to the mount end, loosen the bolts, and re-tighten.
[00:04:19] <andypugh> Is the far end free, or in a bearing?
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[00:04:35] <Valen> bearing
[00:05:36] <andypugh> Good, but a pity. The test I was thinking of was to see if the position of the far end moves as the nut traverses.
[00:06:16] <andypugh> ie, if the drive-end bearings are not aligned with the axis of the slide and the ball-nit
[00:06:35] <Valen> can probably unbolt it and see what happens
[00:07:03] <andypugh> Might be interesting. If it pings off to one side then that is bad, even if it isn't the problem.
[00:07:49] <Valen> and if it wiggles around there is an issue as well
[00:08:10] <andypugh> Yes that means it is bent.
[00:08:25] <Valen> rather
[00:09:54] <andypugh> Or the ballnut contains more than one size of ball, carefully graded. Which is unlikely.
[00:14:14] <Valen> nah we got the full backlash IC's
[00:14:17] <Valen> bah
[00:14:24] <Valen> full backlash ballnuts
[00:14:35] <Valen> then sprung 2 of them apart with belville washers
[00:14:53] <Valen> so should only have one size ball in
[00:15:35] <andypugh> Yeah, it wasn't a serious suggestion, I was just trying to think of other things that could make the end of the ballscrew wave about.
[00:18:13] <andypugh> Night all.
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[03:51:56] <ssi> weeee
[03:52:00] <ssi> bought a new vise
[03:52:08] <ssi> replaced my 5" harbor freight garbage with a 5" wilton
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[03:52:42] <ssi> comes with the waffle grippy jaws; ground them smooth on the surface grinder
[03:52:55] <ssi> installed them and put the whole vise on the grinder and ground them flush and parallel on the tops
[03:53:13] <ssi> I'll probably make some aluminum soft jaws with magnets that just snap onto the steel smooth jaws
[03:53:22] <elmo40> ever hear of Lang Vice? http://www.lang-technik.de/en/artikel/gruppen/51101.makro-grip-centre-vices.html
[03:53:49] <ssi> shiny
[03:53:51] <ssi> looks expensive :)
[03:53:55] <elmo40> dude, they rock!
[03:53:58] <elmo40> http://www.lang-technik.de/en/artikel/gruppen/51107.makro-grip-centre-vice.html
[03:54:03] <elmo40> such amazing technology
[03:54:11] <elmo40> hover over the ? marks
[03:54:18] <ssi> that's pretty cool
[03:54:25] <elmo40> they have vids. just great stuff
[03:54:41] <ssi> I'm just talking about a bench vise tho
[03:54:43] <ssi> shoulda qualified that :D
[03:54:51] <ssi> my big mill has a double 4" kurt on it
[03:55:05] <KimK> ssi: Congrats! Now your first project can be to make a second set with crossed V-grooves to hold round stock H or V. Well, your second project, you'll want to tram it in first, lol.
[03:55:05] <ssi> I need to get a vise for the little mill... but I need to finish its conversion before it even matters
[03:55:13] <elmo40> we have practically removed all Kurt vice for these ones.
[03:55:34] <elmo40> unless we have oversized parts that can't be marred by the serrated lip of the vice.
[03:55:35] <ssi> elmo40: what do they cost?
[03:55:47] <ssi> KimK: V grooves would be nice, but no tramming on a bench vise fortunately :D
[03:55:47] <Jymmm> elmo40: Heck, I can do all that with pair of vise grips ;)
[03:55:58] <elmo40> pricey >_<
[03:56:05] <ssi> elmo40: I'm sure they are
[03:56:17] <Jymmm> elmo40: $5 for three pair at the swap meet
[03:56:24] <ssi> i'll probably end up getting one of the glacern 4" vises for my small mill
[03:56:29] <elmo40> about $1500 for one vice. plus the base plate and you need the serrator tool deelio... another few thousand
[03:56:35] <ssi> I got a steal of a deal on my double kurt
[03:56:39] <ssi> $250 on fleabay
[03:56:48] <elmo40> Jymmm: ya ya.
[03:57:12] <elmo40> for a mass production shop with 4 and 5-axis machines, these are the way to go ;)
[03:57:32] <ssi> when you have a 5 axis machine, $2-5k for a vise doesn't seem like such a bad investment
[03:57:43] <ssi> when you have a $1000 mill, it's excessive :D
[03:58:04] <elmo40> true
[03:58:50] <ssi> oh in other news
[03:58:55] <ssi> I got my damn airplane back flying today :D
[03:59:15] <elmo40> cool
[03:59:19] <ssi> replaced the bad cylinder over the weekend and test flew this evening
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[04:47:07] <Connor> So, I manually milled out a hole in a enclosure for a AC Outlet.. (The Decorator square style kind)... First time doing anything on the machine.. and it was on plastic..
[04:47:42] <Connor> Used top spindle speed with 1/8" Up cut spiral.. no melting.. nice small chips.. Vacuum did good job of removing them..
[04:47:55] <ssi> on your router or your 704?
[04:47:58] <Connor> and the outlet fits pretty damn good for my first time using.
[04:48:00] <Connor> 704
[04:48:03] <ssi> awesome
[04:48:07] <ssi> happy with it?
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[04:48:42] <Connor> Yea. I had to raise the spindle up a few times to confirm which direction I was going to move the table.. since I'm not use to using handles..
[04:48:49] <Connor> err. hand wheels.
[04:48:50] <ssi> heheh
[04:48:53] <ssi> you'll get used to it
[04:48:59] <ssi> what's gonna screw me up is when I get mine converted
[04:49:04] <Connor> no I want. It'll be CNC'ed before I do. :)
[04:49:04] <ssi> I'm used to moving the table
[04:49:19] <ssi> but CNC tends to move the SPINDLE
[04:49:27] <ssi> ie, right motion moves teh table left
[04:49:33] <ssi> and that's gonna screw me up hardcore
[04:49:44] <Connor> huh?
[04:50:02] <Connor> Why is it going to move the spindle ?
[04:50:08] <ssi> think about a gantry mill
[04:50:11] <ssi> you're moving the spindle around the work
[04:50:11] <Connor> Oh.
[04:50:22] <Connor> Yea, that's what my DIY CNC Router does.
[04:50:25] <ssi> I think people tend to setup bed mills the same way
[04:50:33] <ssi> right arrow moves the spindle right across the work
[04:50:38] <ssi> (moves the work left)
[04:52:17] <Connor> That's how mine is.. of course, my gantry moves.. not the bed.
[04:52:21] <ssi> yea
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[04:52:26] <ssi> it's easy to deal with on a gantry machine
[04:52:29] <ssi> my plasma table is that way
[04:52:41] <ssi> but I'm used to running a knee mill and thinking about it in terms of moving the table left
[04:52:55] <Connor> Was funny seeing that tiny little 1/8" end mill I use on my router in that G0704...
[04:52:58] <ssi> and once I start trying to do anything jogging the little bed mill around, I'm sure I'm gonna try to hit left to move the table left
[04:53:17] <ssi> I could just set my jog up so that it behaves like I expect it to
[04:53:21] <ssi> I don't guess that'll affect running programs
[04:53:25] <Connor> yea.
[04:53:29] <Connor> you might want to.
[04:54:22] <Connor> I don't see how people can do very accurate work with manual mill, I lost track of how many times I cranked the handle... I was mostly watching the outline I drew on the box...
[04:54:43] <ssi> DRO
[04:54:44] <ssi> :D
[04:55:05] <Connor> and with any amount of backlash.
[04:55:11] <Connor> Yea. Before DRO silly.
[04:55:13] <ssi> backlash isn't a problem
[04:55:18] <Connor> not with a DRO.
[04:55:18] <ssi> you just always turn the handles the same way
[04:55:22] <ssi> even without
[04:55:35] <ssi> I have like 0.040" backlash in my big mill
[04:55:40] <Connor> You mean take material off the same way..
[04:55:45] <ssi> but if you're always on the same side of the thread, it doesn't matter
[04:55:52] <ssi> no, I mean literally always turn the handles the same direction
[04:56:20] <Connor> What happens if you need to go the other way.. I.E. I was cutting out a rectangle.
[04:56:20] <ssi> if you need to turn it the other way for whatever reason, you either need to account for the backlash, or pickup an edge going the other direction and use that direction for all cuts
[04:56:33] <ssi> accounting for the backlash isn't terribly hard
[04:56:48] <ssi> with the gibs a little snug, you can easily feel the difference between backlash and table motion
[04:57:02] <Connor> That I can..
[04:57:20] <Connor> I have like .06" or so.
[04:57:29] <Connor> maybe less.
[04:57:34] <Connor> I haven't done anything to it yet.
[04:57:37] <ssi> yea, that's normal
[04:57:53] <ssi> my 704 is in pieces
[04:57:59] <ssi> I have all three ballscrews turned and mounted
[04:58:07] <ssi> I just need to make ballnut mounts for it
[04:58:09] <ssi> get it put back together
[04:58:16] <Connor> Yea.. I'll do the Ballscrews later..
[04:58:20] <ssi> I also bought that $30 surpluscenter.com 3/4hp 3 phase motor for it
[04:58:31] <Connor> Why 3 phase?
[04:58:33] <ssi> VFD
[04:58:48] <ssi> loooove me some VFD 3 phase
[04:59:47] <Connor> I'm thinking of trying to run my Bosch in DC mode and see if it works.
[04:59:57] <ssi> router?
[04:59:58] <Connor> I'll have to short out the Triac in it..
[05:00:02] <Connor> Yea.
[05:00:03] <ssi> sounds scary
[05:00:16] <Connor> It's a universal motor.
[05:00:20] <ssi> weird
[05:00:27] <Connor> most of those are.
[05:00:38] <ssi> what does that buy you?
[05:00:56] <Connor> short out the triac, throw in a bridge rectifier.. The hookup a PWM control circuit.
[05:01:03] <ssi> gotcha
[05:01:07] <Connor> then let the PC control it.
[05:01:12] <ssi> I wonder how that super PID thing that advertises on cnczone is
[05:01:18] <ssi> this is the motor I got for the 704 btw
[05:01:18] <ssi> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=10-2510&catname=electric
[05:01:29] <ssi> it's a bit bigger than the stock motor, but it oughta be a decent fit
[05:01:38] <Connor> It does phase chopping or something.
[05:01:47] <Connor> Damn, that's a honking motor.
[05:01:53] <ssi> it's not as honking as it looks
[05:02:33] <Connor> I've studied the SuperPID.. I don't really care about the PID part.. I'll let EMC do that.. I just need a way to control the speed..
[05:02:54] <ssi> yep, that's why 3 phase :)
[05:03:10] <Connor> Most houses don't have 3 phase..
[05:03:22] <ssi> mine doesn't either
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[05:03:50] <Connor> You going to use a secondary motor with fly wheel as a converter?
[05:04:34] <ssi> nonono
[05:04:39] <ssi> VFD
[05:04:46] <ssi> 1 phase in, 110 or 220
[05:04:51] <ssi> 3 phase out, variable frequency
[05:05:12] <Connor> Oh. Sorry.. when you say 3 phase... I'm thinking of 3 phase into the house..
[05:05:20] <ssi> yeah, that's what I'm talking about
[05:05:23] <Connor> I have no exp with VFD
[05:05:33] <ssi> I have four separate tools that are 3 phase
[05:05:39] <ssi> my big mill and surface grinder are both 3 phase
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[05:05:43] <ssi> and I run them with static converters
[05:05:56] <ssi> they're just shitty little boxes with a contactor and a couple capacitors
[05:06:00] <ssi> they create like a phantom phase
[05:06:12] <ssi> 220v single phase is actually two phases of a 3 phase feed
[05:06:22] <Connor> right.
[05:06:23] <ssi> if you put a pair of caps from each phase, you get a phantom phase
[05:06:41] <Connor> My dad used a secondary 3 phase motor somehow..
[05:06:46] <ssi> the other way to do it is a rotary converter
[05:07:03] <ssi> which is the motor, you feed it 220v single phase and it generates a third phase
[05:07:22] <ssi> the third way is a Variable Frequency Drive
[05:07:29] <ssi> takes 110 or 220v single phase power
[05:07:32] <ssi> and has an inverter in it
[05:07:37] <Connor> right, and the flywheel (if you need one) helps keep the motor turning when it hits the dead phase.
[05:07:37] <ssi> and produces 3 phase power
[05:07:53] <ssi> it basically rectifies the single phase to DC
[05:08:00] <ssi> then the inverter produces 3 phase AC
[05:08:09] <ssi> and the upside is it can produce whatever freq you want
[05:08:15] <ssi> 3 phase US electric is 60hz
[05:08:22] <ssi> a 1725rpm motor on 60hz runs at 1725rpm
[05:08:34] <ssi> if you run it on 120hz, it runs 3450rpm
[05:08:49] <ssi> if you run it on 6hz, it runs 172.5rpm
[05:08:50] <Connor> yea, but not for much longer... they're talking about running variable freq or something..
[05:09:15] <ssi> what's awesome (and what I didn't realize until I dicked with static converters entirely too much)
[05:09:25] <ssi> is a small VFD costs barely more than a static converter
[05:09:26] <ssi> like $130
[05:10:12] <ssi> there it is
[05:10:12] <ssi> http://www.dealerselectric.com/item.asp?cID=28&PID=428
[05:10:15] <ssi> that's the one I'm running on my lathe
[05:10:20] <ssi> and I'll probably get one just like it for the mill
[05:10:56] <Connor> That wont do me any good though on my router...
[05:10:58] <ssi> it beats the shit out of dicking around with DC treadmill motors and chinese DC speed controls
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[05:11:13] <ssi> yea perhaps not, but on the mill it's the way to go
[05:11:26] <Connor> I'll have to cross that bridge when I get to it.
[05:14:11] <ssi> I am gonna need to cobble together some form of belt drive for the 704
[05:14:16] <ssi> and a pneumatic drawbar would be tops
[05:14:23] <Connor> yea.
[05:14:24] <ssi> I plan on running all TTS on this machine
[05:14:49] <Connor> I made the mistake of buying the $72.00 set of R-8 Collets from Grizzly..
[05:14:58] <Connor> before I knew or understood about TTS
[05:14:59] <ssi> set of collets is good to have
[05:15:01] <ssi> either way
[05:15:06] <Connor> True nuf.
[05:15:15] <Connor> I did get my 4" Chuck though.
[05:15:18] <ssi> collets in all shapes and sizes :D
[05:15:23] <ssi> 4" chuck?
[05:15:26] <ssi> r8 chuck?
[05:15:35] <Connor> kinda of funny seeing a lathe chuck in a mill.
[05:15:36] <Connor> yea.
[05:15:41] <ssi> what are you gonna use that for
[05:15:48] <Connor> I have no lathe.
[05:15:58] <Connor> and I need to turn down a few parts for the conversion.
[05:16:02] <ssi> fair nuff
[05:16:11] <ssi> heheh that's the problem with machining
[05:16:12] <ssi> you get into it
[05:16:16] <ssi> and you can only buy a machine at a time
[05:16:23] <ssi> and you very quickly realize that you really need one of everything
[05:16:28] <Connor> So, I'll use the vise as a tool holder for the lathe bit..
[05:16:30] <ssi> my first machine was a lathe
[05:16:36] <ssi> and you can do lots of cool stuff with a lathe
[05:16:44] <ssi> but finish very few things
[05:16:57] <ssi> once I had a mill and a lathe
[05:17:03] <ssi> I quickly realized that I needed a surface grinder
[05:17:04] <ssi> heheh
[05:17:26] <Connor> Best thing I like about a lathe was the ability to drill perfectly centered holes into round stock.
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[05:17:40] <Connor> Not sure how you do that on a mill yet..
[05:18:17] <ssi> with a coaxial indicator, a spotting drill, and good drilling technique
[05:18:18] <ssi> http://gallery.me.com/tmbg#100089/IMG_0022&bgcolor=black
[05:18:26] <ssi> that's the $30 motor, btw
[05:18:30] <Connor> I have a center trill or spot drill..
[05:18:41] <ssi> and a pain in the ass cat who wanted desperately to be in the picture
[05:18:42] <Connor> $30.00? Damn.
[05:19:14] <ssi> and a shitty picture of my new bench vise :D
[05:19:14] <ssi> http://gallery.me.com/tmbg#100089/IMG_0020&bgcolor=black
[05:19:37] <ssi> I took the waffle grippy jaws that came with it and surface ground them smooth, then mounted them, put the whole vise on the grinder, and ground the tops smooth and flush
[05:19:45] <Connor> Oh yea.. I need to get a decent vise too.. the cheap drill press vise won't cut it for very long.
[05:20:03] <ssi> http://www.glacern.com/gsv_440
[05:20:07] <ssi> that's what I intend to run on my 704
[05:20:32] <Connor> I'm looking at a 5 or 6" form Shars
[05:20:35] <ssi> I really wish they made a "premium" version of the 4"
[05:20:42] <ssi> I really like flat sided cnc style vises
[05:20:49] <ssi> but the 6" is WAY too big for that machine
[05:20:59] <Connor> Is it?
[05:21:01] <ssi> yea
[05:21:04] <ssi> 6" vises are enormous
[05:21:16] <ssi> I run a 4" on my bridgeport cause my 6" is too big for most stuff
[05:21:22] <ssi> and cause my 4" is much higher quality
[05:21:29] <Connor> http://www.shars.com/products/view/56/4x418x114quot_Lock_Down_Precision_Milling_Machine_Vise_with_Swivel_Base
[05:21:38] <Connor> http://www.shars.com/product_categories/view/4120304/Precision_Ground_Milling_Machine_Vises3
[05:21:49] <Connor> dohe.. take off the 3 on that last link
[05:22:24] <ssi> I honestly wouldn't buy that $90 vise
[05:22:36] <ssi> this one looks almost passable:
[05:22:37] <ssi> http://www.shars.com/products/view/8138/4quot_440V_CNC_Milling_Machine_Vise_00004quot
[05:22:47] <ssi> but then it's $20 cheaper than the glacern, and the glacern is MUCH nicer
[05:23:14] <Connor> You wanna chip in on the $$$ ? :)
[05:23:26] <ssi> I understand being thrifty
[05:23:35] <ssi> but buying a crap vise is gonna affect every part you make
[05:24:19] <ssi> http://www.shars.com/files/products/202-1021/202-1022Main.jpg
[05:24:22] <ssi> that picture says it all
[05:24:37] <ssi> just the poor fit of the fixed jaw, the way it's keyed down, etc
[05:24:45] <Connor> It's cast crap that's been grinded down..
[05:24:55] <ssi> I saw a nice webpage of a guy that went through and made a cheap chinese vise useable
[05:24:59] <ssi> but it was a pile of work
[05:25:20] <ssi> http://www.shars.com/files/products/202-1014/202-1014Q.jpg
[05:25:33] <ssi> also, don't screw with a swivel base on a cnc conversion
[05:25:36] <Connor> Yea, that sucks.
[05:25:38] <ssi> just one more thing to have to tram in
[05:25:47] <ssi> I don't even use a swivel base on my manual machine
[05:26:10] <ssi> my big machine has a 4" double kurt, and it has 5/8" dowel pin holes on the bottom. I put two pins in it and drop them into my t slots and its trammed
[05:26:35] <Connor> Cool.
[05:26:48] <ssi> on my shitty chinese 6" swivel base vise
[05:27:00] <ssi> I put the base on the mill table upside down and cut a 5/8" slot in it
[05:27:05] <ssi> so it's keyed to the table
[05:27:13] <ssi> and I intended to tram it in and then drill it for taper pins
[05:27:23] <ssi> but I ended up just tossing it aside for the nicer vise instead
[05:27:42] <ssi> what a lot of guys do is make a tooling plate that's more or less permanently installed on the table
[05:27:47] <ssi> has dowel pin holes and threaded holes
[05:27:59] <ssi> then your vises and other fixtures will have dowels and bolt holes
[05:28:04] <Connor> Yea, I've seen those.
[05:28:11] <ssi> that way you can drop it in a specific set of holes and everythin's trammed and referenced
[05:28:47] <ssi> onoes GMT is having a sale
[05:28:49] <Connor> I think I'm going to go and get a bowl of Cereal, and then head off to bed.
[05:28:52] <ssi> oke
[05:29:12] <Connor> GMT having a sale ?
[05:29:23] <ssi> 15% off $300, 30% off $500
[05:29:35] <ssi> shit that makes $500 only $350
[05:29:38] <ssi> that's pretty serious
[05:29:56] <Connor> mkaes 300, 255
[05:30:18] <ssi> seems like it'd be worth spending an extra $100 and getting $200 more stuff
[05:30:30] <Connor> Umm.. no.. not %
[05:30:34] <Connor> it's $
[05:30:44] <Connor> 15OFF300 - Save $15 on orders $300 and up
[05:30:44] <Connor> 30OFF500 - Save $30 on orders $500 and up
[05:30:53] <ssi> oh balls
[05:31:01] <ssi> I was about to go nuts with the spending
[05:31:50] <Connor> yea, those GMT's look nice.
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[05:31:58] <ssi> they're very very very nice from what I've heard
[05:31:58] <Connor> I'll just have to save up more $$.
[05:32:17] <ssi> $219 is extremely cheap for a good vise
[05:32:25] <Connor> I have a Window AC unit I'm going to sell.. we bought it for our sun room, but then had the sun room hooked up to the central heat/air.
[05:32:52] <Connor> the sale for $299.00 new.. and it's still new in the box, though it's 3 or 4 years old..
[05:32:56] <Connor> never been used.
[05:32:58] <ssi> http://www.tools4cheap.net/proddetail.php?prod=kurtdl430&cat=11
[05:33:03] <ssi> that's the kurt that I have on my big mill
[05:33:07] <ssi> good vises are the opposite of cheap
[05:33:15] <ssi> I got it on ebay for $240
[05:33:28] <Connor> okay, talk to ya later..
[05:33:30] <ssi> night
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[09:11:51] <mazafaka> What do you think of cleaning some greasy from oil (for example, motorcycle parts) in the bath at home, with detergent and brush? I'm cleaning my bicycle this way...
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[09:16:16] <Spida> mazafaka: no clue where you are, but there may be regulations on what kind of oil/grease you may put into your waste-water system...
[09:16:34] <mazafaka> in Russia, it's OK
[09:17:18] <mazafaka> waste-water system is usually very dirty with acidic stuff and fats
[09:17:26] <Spida> mazafaka: I would go to a car-cleaning place with a high-pressure water cleaner... they should have oil-separators...
[09:18:13] <mazafaka> I just had no money and wanted to clean almpst all details of the motorcycle, whole its back part behind the motor
[09:18:25] <mazafaka> uh...
[09:18:51] <Spida> then the limiting factor is how much dirt you want to have in your bathroom *g*
[09:19:56] <mazafaka> The benzin in garage had ended up and I had to take the details to home...
[09:20:40] <mazafaka> Walls of my bath has tracks of mountain bicycle tyres. So it's OK. ;)
[09:26:17] <anonimasu> ssi: i'd say save up for a nice vise if you plan on doing cnc for a long time
[09:27:00] <anonimasu> (err just saw that you already bought one... the chinese stuff is not worth it yet
[09:29:39] <mazafaka> you mean big-sized vice for huge details?
[09:32:46] <anonimasu> yeah
[09:32:50] <anonimasu> or anything remotely precision
[09:39:48] <mazafaka> precision? How vice can be precison. they're rather rough
[09:42:04] <MrUnshine> hmm dependso n the vice?
[09:42:35] <anonimasu> well, if you want to clamp stuff up and want it to be remotely flat
[09:42:54] <MrUnshine> using dovetail tightening thingie (that holds the moving jaw down when tightening) and precision ground etc repeatability should be quite good ?
[09:43:00] <anonimasu> yep
[09:43:05] <anonimasu> mine's like that and it works very well,
[09:43:31] <anonimasu> somewhere down to alot better then 0.01mm..
[09:43:39] <anonimasu> of lift
[09:45:12] <MrUnshine> not like my vise then that has the precision of about -+ a pancake or two
[09:46:12] <archivist_emc> up to a chalk mark should be good enough for anyone!
[09:46:24] <MrUnshine> haha =)
[09:46:58] <MrUnshine> poor that machine that is built by the machine that is built by that machine
[09:47:15] <MrUnshine> like a whole stack of pancakes wrong in the end :P
[09:47:29] <archivist_emc> I used to use a sheet metal company where theu said they worked to a chalk mark, they were actually very accurate with their bending and cropping
[09:50:21] <MrUnshine> hmm, these not dovetails, but are like square on all sides, what is it called?
[09:50:25] <MrUnshine> have the same purpose :P
[09:52:53] <anonimasu> t-slots
[09:52:54] <anonimasu> clamping parts
[09:53:11] <MrUnshine> hmm, it looks like T slots tho :P
[09:53:23] <MrUnshine> but is used for the linear buiding of beds etc also
[09:53:25] <MrUnshine> its called something :ÍP
[09:54:54] <mazafaka> MrUnshine: "(that holds the moving jaw down when tightening)" <-- when tightening or the moving jaw is just adjustable, and the screw clamps up the detail between the jaws?
[09:55:20] <anonimasu> anti lift
[09:55:23] <anonimasu> it's called
[09:55:41] <MrUnshine> well now i am on the guide ways of a mill or a shaper or whatever and tanking :P
[09:56:28] <MrUnshine> mazafaka, well on the end of the screw there is something that looks like a dovetail, then on the moving jaw theres also a dovetail, these interlock so when tightening the screw pushes the jaw down against the "bed" of the vise
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[09:57:14] <mazafaka> i don't understand without the picture
[09:57:25] <MrUnshine> trying to find one but cant =)
[09:57:30] <MrUnshine> saw a picture before on it
[09:57:33] <MrUnshine> but dont remember where
[09:57:45] <mazafaka> something like a wedge maybe
[09:58:55] <mazafaka> which tighten the slot when you tighten the screw
[10:00:30] <anonimasu> http://www.docsmachine.com/projects/4vise/4vise-04.html
[10:00:44] <mazafaka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LawJOoBDIk0 <-- now this tighten pants!
[10:03:45] <mazafaka> wedge surface on the picture isn't milled, and coupling it spherical surface isn't milled as well.
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[10:08:22] <anonimasu> yeah but it dosnet matter it presses the jaws down onto the ground surface
[10:08:53] <mazafaka> not, that vice on the picture was refurbished later
[10:08:59] <Valen> mazafaka: makes me want to go to the gym
[10:09:23] <anonimasu> i guess even kurt fails sometimes
[10:09:43] <mazafaka> there will be only men, sadly... I have been in there... No women to hug... Only men...
[10:09:56] <Valen> you probably go at the wrong time
[10:10:03] <Valen> also go to the clases, not the weights
[10:12:31] <MrUnshine> oo anonimasu he had a quite nice page with alot of machining pictures =)
[10:12:51] <Valen> i want a surface grinder ;->
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[10:17:49] <mazafaka> what is the feedrtae in G-code F150 - these are millimetres per second or per minute?
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[10:20:24] <jthornton> what does the manual say?
[10:21:02] <mazafaka> EMC thinks it's millimetres per minute, right?
[10:22:16] <mazafaka> omg, just tell me
[10:22:30] <mazafaka> Would you agree?
[10:23:26] <mazafaka> Will EMC consider it G0 Z70 F150 as 150 millimetres per minute?
[10:24:52] <jthornton> I don't know my machines are all inch, you might look in the manual
[10:25:01] <mazafaka> ok
[10:26:24] <mazafaka> but inches per minute?
[10:27:26] <jthornton> ?
[10:27:41] <mazafaka> inches per minute on your machines?
[10:27:53] <jthornton> yes on my machines
[10:28:14] <jthornton> you still need to look in the manual its easy and fun
[10:28:32] <TekniQue> mazafaka: if your G code is in metric mode
[10:28:40] <TekniQue> then it will take F150 as 150 mm/min
[10:29:01] <MrUnshine> hmm, need to make some kind of a dovetailomatic
[10:29:06] <mazafaka> that's right then, heh.
[10:29:54] <MrUnshine> hmm, ofc on the first plane i only need one of the dovetails to be straight, as the other one is adjustable i guess it doesnt mater if its crooked =)
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[10:45:58] <jthornton> anonimasu: nice link
[10:50:36] <jthornton> http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/hstpages.html
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[11:56:05] <jthornton> http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Tooling/MiniFollower/minifollower.html
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[12:02:01] <mazafaka> http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/rockford08.jpg I would invent this way of transporting such cargo
[12:02:55] <mazafaka> Didn't know of rotary broaching (there's example at docsmachine.com projects' page)
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[13:25:45] <anonimasu> mazafaka_: mm/min usually
[13:25:54] <anonimasu> mazafaka_: if you have a default metric setup
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[13:29:07] <anonimasu> did anyone make gears out of some damn hard material without grinding?
[13:29:20] <syyl> ahoi
[13:34:43] <mazafaka_> thanks, anonimasu
[13:35:32] * mazafaka_ thinks about his own relatively big mill for steel
[13:35:33] <mazafaka_> http://www.purelogic.ru/doc/PDF/LM/purelogic_LM.pdf
[13:37:11] <anonimasu> http://ah.io23.net/ul/files/IMAG1467.jpg
[13:37:41] <anonimasu> gotta make a 150mm hole in the center of thoose
[13:41:53] <mazafaka_> What if spindle will be movable, and the table will be constrained? This all together shall be quite rigid.
[13:45:31] <mazafaka_> I could then buy some rotary table...
[13:50:13] <anonimasu> http://www.dmg.com/query/internet/v3/pdl.nsf/98769cee6ea8978cc12573680033480d/$file/pm1de11_dmupdmcufdduoblock.pdf
[13:50:16] <anonimasu> check page 4
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[15:28:35] <sagC> Anyone knows how to find out the correct encoder-offset for a bldc motor? I'm just guessing and in a certain range the motor runs ok, but how to find out the exact value? what tools do i need?
[15:31:49] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[15:32:13] <JT-Shop> sagC: stick around someone might pass by and know the answer...
[15:32:48] <sagC> i will
[15:34:10] <anonimasu> pcw said something about measuring the windings somehow and note the encoder value
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[15:44:38] <sagC> hmm ... I have smooth movement with good speed in one direction and very bad slow movement with overcurrent in the other .... I think the offset is the problem
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[15:52:47] <willburrrr2003> Good morning all :)
[15:53:20] <syyl_> good evening ;)
[15:56:15] <willburrrr2003> hehe the joys of global internet
[15:58:24] <willburrrr2003> trying to get an understanding of the scale funtion I added to my hal this weekend to drive an output frequency formy speed controller, can anyone explain to me how it works and how to set the max frequency to specific frequency?
[15:59:36] <willburrrr2003> it is working now, but not sure I scaled it correctly, I played with the offset and gain to get my output to "work" but now I want to know how it works so I can make sure it's calibrated correctly.
[16:01:54] <willburrrr2003> I have been tying to find it in the manuals, but not having much luck yet locating it
[16:02:18] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/scale.9.html
[16:02:24] <SWPadnos> you shouldn
[16:02:26] <SWPadnos> argh
[16:02:27] <danimal_garage> mornin
[16:02:57] <SWPadnos> you shouldn't need a scale component, since most I/O components (such as PWM and DAC) have scale parameters for their inputs/outputs
[16:03:18] <JT-Shop> SWPadnos: he copied from the CNC4PC example
[16:03:36] <SWPadnos> still shouldn't be needed :)
[16:03:38] <SWPadnos> (IMO)
[16:03:53] <danimal_garage> hi John
[16:03:54] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,10/id,11151/lang,english/
[16:03:58] <JT-Shop> Hi Dan
[16:04:07] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop: the link doesn't work it says not in directory
[16:04:12] <willburrrr2003> the first link...
[16:04:28] <JT-Shop> works for me
[16:04:33] <SWPadnos> same here
[16:04:40] <SWPadnos> short, but functional
[16:04:50] <danimal_garage> thats what she said
[16:05:13] <SWPadnos> not to me
[16:05:31] <danimal_garage> short but not functional?
[16:05:50] <SWPadnos> door # 3, I guess :)
[16:05:52] <JT-Shop> I think Dan needs to turn on the AC
[16:05:54] <willburrrr2003> hahaha thats funny
[16:06:47] <danimal_garage> ha just did John
[16:07:55] * JT-Shop wanders out to the shop to put the XL200R back together
[16:08:09] <danimal_garage> bike?
[16:08:44] <JT-Shop> yea Honda '84
[16:08:49] <danimal_garage> cool
[16:09:01] <willburrrr2003> ok, got to the man page, had to go throu the doc page manually...link would not work on 2 diff computers...though t is the same as the pageI am on now
[16:09:09] <danimal_garage> i finally started working on mine after 6 months of not
[16:09:28] <danimal_garage> finished welding up the muffler last night
[16:09:42] <willburrrr2003> SWPadnos, is there a better way to go without using scale?
[16:10:02] <willburrrr2003> to output a frequency for driving the spindle?
[16:10:07] <danimal_garage> why do you need scale for the vfd?
[16:10:29] <danimal_garage> you should have a setting in your vfd to set the max frequency for a given voltage
[16:10:49] <danimal_garage> that will set your scale
[16:11:19] <willburrrr2003> not using a VFD, using a cnc4pc c6 speed controller board, takes a freqency input from parport pin, and converts it to a 0-10v signal that is then fed into mymini-lathes original speed controller in place of the value that the manual speed pot used to make
[16:11:32] <danimal_garage> ah
[16:13:14] <willburrrr2003> he scale funtion is used to drive the output frequency, I think, that I am sending to my parport pin that goes out to the c6
[16:17:59] <danimal_garage> page 223 in the integrator's manual
[16:19:00] <danimal_garage> tells how to convert a pwm signal for spindle control
[16:19:39] <danimal_garage> 29.2
[16:19:44] <willburrrr2003> Loading manual now to read it
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[16:33:29] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/examples_spindle.html
[16:36:11] <danimal_garage> he's gone
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[16:37:22] <JT-Shop> darn... he will be back
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[16:37:59] <danimal_garage> they always come back
[16:38:10] <JT-Shop> all I need to find/make is a counter shaft sprocket cover and the XL is completely restored
[16:38:28] <jdhNC> if you wanted to make a cylindrical container out of a solid piece of round delrin stock, would you use a lathe, or a mill and a boring head, or what?
[16:38:38] <JT-Shop> yes
[16:39:10] <danimal_garage> sweet!
[16:41:52] <danimal_garage> all i have to do to is finish welding the frame, finish fabbing the exhaust, make handlebars, finish making wire harness, make a headlight bracket, make a tail light, make signal lights, make the tins, powdercoat various engine parts, paint frame, paint tins, find a spoked front wheel, make a new rear axle, and my xj650 project will be complete
[16:42:31] <JT-Shop> almost done then :)
[16:42:57] <syyl_> jdhNC, i would go for the lathe
[16:43:19] <JT-Shop> the xj650 came stock with mag wheels
[16:43:30] <syyl_> if its a more flat piece, like a dish, i would mill it from flat stock
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[16:44:31] <danimal_garage> JT-Shop: yea, i already converted the rear to a spoked wheel, the front is next
[16:45:09] <JT-Shop> wow here is a KZ1000 police special in St Louis on flea bay
[16:45:38] <danimal_garage> there isn't much left from an xj650, just the motor, maybe 15% of the frame, the forks, and the front brake
[16:46:09] <danimal_garage> oh and the rear shaft drive diferential/driveshaft (lengthened)
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[16:46:24] <mazafaka_> danimal_garage: will see my Izh Jupiter 4 and 5 soon
[16:46:39] * JT-Shop needs to stop looking on flea bay :/
[16:46:56] <mazafaka_> danimal_garage: what, handlebar as at flat trackers?
[16:47:45] <danimal_garage> jupiter sounds neat
[16:48:02] <danimal_garage> they'll be somewhat flat, they'll be my own design
[16:48:17] <danimal_garage> not ape hangers or anything of that sort
[16:49:24] <danimal_garage> bbl, gotta go to homo depot
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[16:53:35] <willburrrr2003> omputer crashes suck! hehe ut back now
[16:54:29] <willburrrr2003> Thanks Dan for that link, scaling makes much more sense now that I know how to calculate the correct variables for it :D
[16:54:53] <MikeCNCX2> hello, does anyone know if the mesa 7i43H board works good with EMC? I saw generally USB I/O cards aren't recommended for EMC, but its listed as a supported device.
[16:55:22] <danimal_garage> glad you figured it out
[16:55:35] <willburrrr2003> Me to ;)
[16:55:52] <danimal_garage> thank the guys who wrote the manual!
[16:56:00] <danimal_garage> bbl
[16:56:04] <willburrrr2003> I know now that my numbers are waaay off hehe will change them when I get home
[16:56:17] <willburrrr2003> have a good day Dan, later
[16:56:36] <mazafaka_> http://autoinf.org/data/motorcycles/4d43296f5aca0.jpg but my motorcycle is changed a bit
[16:56:43] <cradek> MikeCNCX2: you need to use a mesa setup with PCI, PCIx, or parport connection. the usb connection isn't supported because it isn't realtime.
[16:57:56] <MikeCNCX2> Ah ok, thanks, Is realtime only needed if running closed loop or even without?
[16:58:16] <cradek> always needed
[16:58:48] <MikeCNCX2> Ok thanks!
[17:00:37] <MikeCNCX2> Any of the ethernet based systems fast enough or is that all still experimental? :)
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[17:04:40] <MikeCNCX2> nevermind found a note on it
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[17:19:16] <danimal_garage> pcix or pcie?
[17:19:27] <danimal_garage> i assume you mean pci express?
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[17:22:47] <willburrrr2003> tonight going to try making a pyvcp tonight to show spindle speed, and function LED's ...any advice to make it go easier on myself?
[17:23:29] <Jymmm> MAS TEQUILIA
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[17:23:44] <danimal_garage> lol
[17:24:05] <danimal_garage> follow the examples
[17:24:39] <danimal_garage> the pyvcp has it's own hal file, it doesn't go in the regular hal file for the machine
[17:25:05] <danimal_garage> i think
[17:26:41] <psha> danimal_garage: separate .hal file for pyvcp is needed since pins are ready only after GUI is set up
[17:26:49] <psha> so it's called in POSTGUI_HALFILE stage
[17:27:06] <psha> willburrrr2003: advice is to use gladevcp :)
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[17:32:24] <willburrrr2003> ok that makes sense , next question is what is gladevcp and how s it different from pyvcp?
[17:33:27] <mazafaka_> danimal_garage: speaking of any serious 4x4 off-road - it's usually very rare. That's why I once have turned in motorcycle trips - especially after the rain. Used heavy (247 kg) Ural motorcycle, single, on asphalt tyres. Its rear part were dancing on those wet silmy ground roads, but even 20 minutes of such ride was a great escape from office-alike time wasting behind the computer, or from mad ideas of my co-workers.
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[17:38:17] <Xolotl4> EMC Fest 2011?
[17:38:50] <psha> willburrrr2003: a bit easier to create panels (since you use glade and not write manually write .xml file) and a bit more eye candiness
[17:38:59] <mazafaka_> Now I'm about to register one motorcycle as my (Izh Jupiter 4, 150 kg, 28 hsp) and sell the second one (Ish Jupiter 5, 150 kg, 24 hsp). My one looks as enduro maybe, this for sale looks like flat tracker. They are almost finished (I need driving license for myself and license for my motorcycle, and this one for sale is waiting for friend who's creating new bushings for the pendulum of rear suspension.) Photos are not made yet... I have no camera.
[17:39:00] <psha> and it uses gtk instead of tk
[17:39:03] <psha> that's all i think
[17:39:57] <psha> willburrrr2003: http://psha.org.ru/tmp/axis-gladevcp-pyvcp.png
[17:40:33] <psha> panels with similar functionality
[17:41:04] <willburrrr2003> thanks psha :)
[17:41:44] <psha> at first gladevcp was modelled after pyvcp but later some more complex functionality was added
[17:41:55] <psha> like ESTOP/Power toggle buttons etc
[17:42:26] <willburrrr2003> and is gladevcp included and installed with the emc distribution?
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[17:44:41] <psha> willburrrr2003: with emc 2.5
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[17:50:06] * Jymmm REALLY thinks that software 'ESTOP' should be renamed and referred to as "SOFT STOP" (or the like), as anything computer controlled shouldn't be viewed as or relied upon as "EMERGENCY" anything as the name implies or as a life safety device, at least from a legal/liability/perception POV.
[17:50:22] <ds3> Electronic Stop
[17:50:47] <Jymmm> that works
[17:51:15] <Jymmm> but are ppl going to abbr eSTOP to mean "Emergency Stop" or "Electronic Stop"
[17:53:04] <Jymmm> Actually it is "Software Stop" as there are no electronics (other than I/O, which could be paraport) in the mix.
[17:53:04] <MikeCNCX2> you could change it to elSTOP and ad an O at the end just because
[17:53:57] <ds3> on the big boys like a Haas, what exactly does the big red button do?
[17:54:40] <Jymmm> ds3: Safety relay(s), and independent of the controller being used.
[17:55:18] <anonimasu> ds3: conform to the ce estop requirements
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[17:55:47] <ds3> Jymmm: so it is still different from yanking the breaker?
[17:56:33] <anonimasu> on many machines no
[17:56:53] <ds3> hmmm
[17:57:02] <anonimasu> they have different levels of stop some has to remove power
[17:57:05] <anonimasu> some has to stop safely
[17:57:09] <Jymmm> ds3: It cane be yes. Example: Say you have somethign that has a lot or inertia on it's own. Just pulling the power, doens't stop the motion, so brakes need to be applied (lets say) for at least 20s
[17:57:32] <ds3> ok
[17:57:39] <jdhNC> what if your finger is caught in the brake
[17:57:42] <anonimasu> and some things are dangerous if you slow them too fast
[17:57:46] <Jymmm> So there needs to be a delayed removal from the brakes as example. It'll all depend on the machine.
[17:57:49] <psha> Jymmm: if you have external estop internal one won't work but reflect position of external
[17:57:54] <psha> so it's ok i guess
[17:58:32] <willburrrr2003> is emc 2.5 available now?
[17:58:39] <Jymmm> psha: SOFT STOP (as I like to call it) is triggered from "external" (as you call it)
[17:59:26] <psha> willburrrr2003: from buildbot
[17:59:43] <Jymmm> psha: But in an EMERGENCY, position really doesn't matter, it's not a "OH SHIT" button, it's an "EMERGENCY STOP" one.
[18:00:04] <psha> Jymmm: heh, i'm not good in terminology :)
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[18:00:15] <Jymmm> psha: machine/parts be damned imo =)
[18:00:26] <ds3> if I read what you are saying... estop should be an INPUT to EMC
[18:00:30] <Jymmm> ...if it means saving a life/limb
[18:00:54] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: whats wrong with Emergency stop?
[18:00:57] <Jymmm> ds3: It's all part of "ESTOP CHAIN"
[18:01:35] <ds3> Jymmm: Chain? EMC should be an end point to know estop has been engage, not in any part of the chain itself
[18:01:40] <Loetmichel> 'cause like ds3 said: the estop HAS to be a hardware fuction or a function with a "selfsafe" PLD
[18:01:50] <ds3> Loetmichel: not me
[18:01:57] <Loetmichel> so emc is just informed that the machine has estopped
[18:02:41] <Loetmichel> [20:00:51] <ds3> if I read what you are saying... estop should be an INPUT to EMC
[18:02:52] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: the term "ESTOP" imo shouldn't be used to describe the F1 button
[18:03:15] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: SOFT STOP, sure.
[18:03:32] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: ok, THERE i agree with you
[18:03:53] <ds3> Loetmichel: your first statement should be credited to someone else.. I was just interpreting what others have said
[18:04:19] <MikeCNCX2> any big disadvantage to running expanded I/O mode? Been looking at the PMDX 126 breakout and a 107 speed control and wondering if I can get away with expanded mode to only use 1x parallel port
[18:05:02] <Loetmichel> (but better a functioning f1-butten as "estop" than a estop on the machine that is deactivated for half a year like my old one ;-)
[18:05:08] <psha> ds3: yes, chain
[18:05:16] <psha> but nobody said that emc is in the middle
[18:05:38] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Well, if a true safety device is circumvented, this doesn't apply.
[18:05:42] <psha> however hw estop button not only blocks controllers but also instructs emc to stop sending commands
[18:05:51] <psha> so it's really not in the en
[18:05:52] <psha> d
[18:06:14] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: was MY fingers which got the consequences
[18:06:48] <cradek> MikeCNCX2: I can't immediately figure out what expanded mode means
[18:06:56] <Loetmichel> had a design flaw: estop and limit switchs through the same cable as the Motors
[18:07:20] <Jymmm> The BRB (big Red Button) should work no matter the condition/state of and independantly of the computer/controller.
[18:07:26] <Loetmichel> eough interferecnce on estop to trigger it on EVERY Spindle start
[18:07:43] <Loetmichel> so i disabled it
[18:08:16] <Loetmichel> half a year later was the spare time to dismatle the cabing and do it right
[18:08:22] <Loetmichel> cabling
[18:08:25] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Well, limit switches aren;t the BRB
[18:08:54] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i am talking ALL switches
[18:09:02] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Or did you mean the cabling for the BRB was bundled with the cabling for the limit switches?
[18:09:41] <Loetmichel> same cable (multiple wires) for steppers, Spindle driver and all switches
[18:09:52] <Jymmm> ...including BRB?
[18:09:58] <Loetmichel> <- didnt think it through the first time
[18:10:04] <Loetmichel> yes
[18:10:19] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[18:10:21] <Jymmm> K. That was a fubar unless properly shielded, etc.
[18:10:39] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: say what ;-)
[18:11:13] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: FUBAR == Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition ( a phrase used during war time)
[18:11:45] <Jymmm> See also: SNAFU
[18:11:45] <willburrrr2003> hell, thats an everyday phrase at my ork ;)
[18:11:54] <Loetmichel> was a bit of late fot starting the machine 'cause my boss had made manufacturing contracts with deadline
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[18:12:18] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i know fubar, i wanted to say: what else is new ;-)
[18:12:28] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: so, you lost your fingers?
[18:12:35] <Loetmichel> just partially
[18:12:46] <MikeCNCX2> cradek: it basically allows more i/o than 1x parallel port would normally allow (4 more in and 4 more out) I dont see details on what it does, it just says that an EMC HAL config is needed.
[18:12:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2958
[18:12:58] <Jymmm> ouch
[18:13:09] <Loetmichel> 3mm bone, flesh and nail ;-)
[18:13:19] <Loetmichel> no, didnt hurt
[18:13:25] <Loetmichel> ... at first
[18:13:34] <cradek> MikeCNCX2: sometimes that means multiplexing with the charge pump or some other trick - if so, your I/O will have slightly higher (but still predictable and bounded) latency
[18:13:59] <cradek> MikeCNCX2: perhaps you should ask your vendor since none of us know the technical details of this board
[18:14:31] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: the spindle was at 24000RPM and ther was ne new 2 flute 3mm TC-bit in it
[18:14:51] <Loetmichel> had gone though the thumb SO quick it coudlnt hurt
[18:15:14] <Loetmichel> s/ne/a
[18:15:16] <Jymmm> See, my big thing is naive persons hearing the term ESTOP (EMERGENCY STOP) and relying upon it for life safety purposes. While most use the BRB as a convienant "OH SHIT" button becaue they forgot to bolt something down, or adjust something, and just want the machine to PAUSE NOW so they can resolve the issue.
[18:15:24] <MikeCNCX2> cradek: ok thanks, will do I just wasn't sure how EMC might react to something like that rather than direct pin i/o control
[18:15:55] <cradek> MikeCNCX2: sorry, can't say, I can only guess at the implementation, and if it's what I guess, it would be fine
[18:16:03] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: ok, reasonable
[18:16:43] <Jymmm> You could probably ask a 4yo what s/he thinks the BRB does and would have a pretty good idea even if never has seen it before.
[18:17:17] <Jymmm> Lets say the class was on a fieldtrip to a factory.
[18:17:44] <Loetmichel> and a the latter is a bit less crazy than rachin in the running spindle to get the part that has forgotten to bolt down... the reason i got a hole in my finger in the first place ;-)
[18:18:10] <Loetmichel> reaching
[18:18:17] <Jymmm> It's that 4yo mentaility that I think should be the norm in life safety devices.
[18:19:04] <Connor> Anyone have any source or ideas for a ATC or Quick Change for standard routers / trim routers?
[18:19:16] <Connor> Getting really old having to use wrenches and crap...
[18:19:57] <Jymmm> since emc2 isn't dedicated (has browser, mp3 player), it could freeze/lockup/delay in responding to a F1 condition, even if a BRB is wired to the F1 signal.
[18:20:30] <jdhNC> connor: I'd like that for my router, but seems unlikely to be workable
[18:20:37] <Connor> Isn't that what Charge pumps help with ?
[18:20:57] <Connor> jdhNC: I saw a quick change collet system from sears...
[18:20:59] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i agree with you: the estop should be hardwired oder wired though a dedicated PLD wihich is permitted to do so
[18:21:07] <Jymmm> Sears has some, but the runnout IS TOTAL SHIT!
[18:21:11] <MikeCNCX2> Connor: these were for a mill but i dont know if any could be adapted. Heres a table based one, theres a rotary one in there somewhere too: http://www.hossmachine.info/projects_7.html
[18:21:24] <Connor> Jymmm: Yea.. that's what I figured.
[18:21:27] <Loetmichel> and the f1 butten should be labeled quick stop or something
[18:21:46] <Jymmm> Connor: I saw them in person, just crap
[18:22:07] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I like the term "SOFT STOP" myself (Software Stop)
[18:22:07] <Connor> MikeCNCX2 Those require a draw bar system.. which routers don't have.
[18:22:21] <MikeCNCX2> ah ok
[18:22:23] <jdhNC> use the router to drive a real spindle!
[18:22:39] <Connor> not going to fit on my little rig..
[18:22:54] <Connor> I'll have to stick with manual tool changes I guess.
[18:22:55] <Jymmm> jdhNC: You know how much physical space that would need! OUCH
[18:23:06] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: hmm, isnt there a stop that uses the whole last cycle?
[18:23:26] <Loetmichel> THAT would be named right "soft stop"
[18:23:37] <jdhNC> connor: how often do you change tools?
[18:23:40] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: There's a MACHINE PAUSE function somewhere I believe too
[18:23:49] <jdhNC> I've had the same 1/8" end mill in mine forever :)
[18:23:58] <Connor> jdhNC: Doing PCB's...
[18:24:07] <Loetmichel> ok, anyway: i agree with you that estop is misleading
[18:24:09] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Can switch tooling in the SAME job.
[18:24:11] <Connor> will require changing different sizes of drill bits and such.
[18:24:54] <jdhNC> I know... I'd be doing that now if my garage had A/C
[18:25:07] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: btw: the thumb has healed nicely, no spots without felling. got lucky: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2961
[18:25:11] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2964
[18:25:15] <Loetmichel> feeling
[18:25:58] <Connor> I added a AC duct to my shop.. but, it's not working very well.. I need a return, or exhaust vent or something... air doesn't move very much it in.
[18:26:23] <Loetmichel> but this thumb has to take a punch anywas, some months ago i cut it 3mm short with the bandsaw ;-)
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[18:27:39] <willburrrr2003> All the E-stop buttons we install in our panels , kill the machine...physially and independantly of any controllers. They shutown machine motors, heaters, controls, and power past the transformer. Not an oh, I need to pause button....it's an OH SHIT GONNA DIE IF I DON"T HIT THAT BUTTON KIND OF BUTTON. On my minilathe it will kill control power in my control panel. thus cutting off spindle and motion power. I will also have
[18:29:14] <willburrrr2003> Loetmichel, sorry to hear of your injury but glad you are still here to tell us about it....machines can kill very quickly if circumstances are right
[18:29:47] <Loetmichel> willburrrr2003: nothing to be sorry of
[18:29:49] <Connor> Loetmichel: What happened ?
[18:30:08] <Loetmichel> my own fault as always
[18:31:04] <Loetmichel> willburrrr2003: not entirely right
[18:31:39] <Loetmichel> an estop button should bring the machine to the QUICKEST possible stop
[18:31:52] <Loetmichel> i.e._ actiovely braking the Spindle and Drives
[18:32:04] <Loetmichel> THEN it schould kill the power
[18:32:06] <jdhNC> connor: how long did it take to clean up your mill?
[18:32:09] <Loetmichel> should
[18:32:30] <Loetmichel> Connor: just a little mishap as always
[18:32:44] <Loetmichel> reached in the running mill
[18:33:17] <Loetmichel> got a TC 3mm 2flute bit though my thumb ;-)
[18:33:32] <Loetmichel> but about 5 years ago
[18:33:59] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2958&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[18:34:21] <Loetmichel> shit happens ;-)
[18:34:24] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Vacuum holddown? http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[18:35:04] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: no, just air from underneath to clear the milled slots from Carbon dust
[18:35:26] <Loetmichel> and a raster to aling the workpiece somewhat straight.
[18:36:18] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: So, in that pic you are not making a vacuum holddown table?
[18:36:24] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/hajo/Servotester_gravur.avi
[18:36:26] <Loetmichel> no
[18:36:58] <Jymmm> youscrew the workpiece to the table!?
[18:37:08] <Loetmichel> that is just some soft "wood" to mount the carbon/fibreglass/plywood on for milling
[18:37:19] <Loetmichel> (with small wood screws)
[18:37:27] <Jymmm> why the slots then?
[18:38:29] <Jymmm> as opposed to non-slots
[18:38:48] <Loetmichel> to get air from underneath for blowing the milled slots free (by suckung the dust up above the workpiece)
[18:39:15] <Loetmichel> and to aling the workpiece on the plate
[18:39:33] <Loetmichel> [20:37:24] <Jymmm> youscrew the workpiece to the table!? <- yes
[18:39:45] <Jymmm> Oh, so intake air channels
[18:39:50] <Loetmichel> the brown table is the "loss plate"
[18:40:03] <Connor> loss plate ?
[18:40:39] <Loetmichel> 'caus i milled thin sheets trough youi have to have something underneath whicht get lost
[18:40:50] <Loetmichel> and is NOT expensive to reinstall ;-)
[18:40:51] <Connor> Oh. Spoil Board
[18:40:57] <Loetmichel> yes
[18:42:36] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I guess *I* haven't had a need for air intake was the confusion
[18:43:03] <Jymmm> just suck up the swarf/dust directly
[18:43:27] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/hajo/sauuuug.avi
[18:43:44] <Loetmichel> here the macine in action with a LITTLE vacuum plate on it
[18:45:03] <Loetmichel> and there you see the reason for the channels: the spindle is enclosed in a gliding "foot" which sucks the (cancerinducing) carbon/fibreglass dust away
[18:45:32] <Loetmichel> and needs some air from below to do that reliable from the milled parts
[18:46:38] <Connor> Is that a Dyson vacuum ?
[18:46:44] <Loetmichel> yes
[18:47:10] <Loetmichel> was only as a backup, the big shopvac was out of order
[18:47:11] <psha> tube system is nice
[18:47:37] <Loetmichel> psha: was also a emergency repair
[18:48:02] <Loetmichel> cause the original hose was not long enought for the new place
[18:48:11] <Loetmichel> so i improvised a bit
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[18:49:40] <psha> is it standard pvc sewage tube?
[18:49:56] <psha> or pe...
[18:50:25] <psha> great idea - simple to assemble and easily disassempled if needed
[18:50:28] <Loetmichel> the machine was sold with the company across the coutntry including me 'cause (my boss:) "you have build the machine, you have to "teach in" the new user!"
[18:50:39] <Loetmichel> psha: it is
[18:51:01] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Oh, due to the foot.
[18:51:32] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Man, that AVI file was a PITA. Not sure what codec it was using.
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[18:51:45] <Loetmichel> but with a single steel wire floating inside, earthed on both ends, cause glass dust is like a va de graaf generator ;-)
[18:52:13] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: sorry, one of my earlier coding experiments ;-)
[18:52:22] <Jymmm> I thought you only did ONE end, not gournd both
[18:52:42] <mazafaka_> "He lets me to use the machine." or "He let me to use the machine." ??
[18:52:44] <Jymmm> that's the way ti works for shielding at least
[18:52:52] <psha> Loetmichel: heh, you'll better use that effect to power your machine!
[18:53:00] <Loetmichel> thats not important to dissipate static electicity
[18:53:33] <Loetmichel> psha: was enough votage on the tubes for 2" long sparks (into my NOSE)
[18:53:46] <Jymmm> WITH it grounded?
[18:53:55] <Loetmichel> before i inserted the steel wire ;-)
[18:53:58] <Jymmm> AH
[18:54:00] <psha> Loetmichel: hey, you are to curious :D
[18:54:07] <Jymmm> I was gonna say... DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN! =)
[18:54:23] <mazafaka_> psha: he let or he lets, it's the verb after second singular
[18:55:32] <Loetmichel> psha: wanted to know why the VFD was resetting every 10 seconds
[18:55:38] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I made a dus enclosure for my router, skinned it with clear vinyl, then with aluminum screen with ground leads. So even charged dust particals dont stick
[18:55:52] <Loetmichel> so i looked and listhned.. --- to close to the tube ;-)
[18:56:34] <Loetmichel> and got the reason: 2" long sparks hitting the heatsink of the vfd ;-)
[18:56:59] <Loetmichel> (and my overcuious nose ;-)
[18:58:24] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/MK_v13_bohren.MOV <- there you can see the machine making 3mm holes in 2mm thick carbon fibre board
[18:58:34] <Loetmichel> in realtime ;-)
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[18:59:29] <Xolotl4> which wand is is the best itx motherboard for EMC2?
[18:59:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/jumpjetkopterteile1.avi <- doing some 10mm aluminium sqare tube
[19:00:21] <psha> mazafaka_: dunno, ask Jymmm, he's native speaker
[19:01:39] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/hajo/aussentank.avi <- some 3d for a wing tank mold
[19:01:42] <psha> mazafaka_: however his temper is between bad and horrible so don't expect anwser ;)
[19:01:59] <Loetmichel> psha: nana, its not SO bad ;-)
[19:02:23] <Jymmm> mazafaka_: "He let" implies past tense, "He Lets" implies current tense I believe.
[19:02:42] <mazafaka_> psha: and Jymmm I have asked at ##English
[19:02:58] <Jymmm> mazafaka_: and?
[19:03:02] <mazafaka_> "He lets me use the machine."
[19:03:40] <Jymmm> implying current/future tense.
[19:04:10] <mazafaka_> something what happens regularly
[19:04:14] <Jymmm> "He let me use the machine." implying past tense.
[19:04:45] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: you asked for a vacuum plate?
[19:04:45] <Jymmm> or something that happened in the past
[19:04:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/hajo/vakuumFEST.avi <- THAT is a vacuum plate
[19:05:09] <Loetmichel> 1000mm by 600mm ;-)
[19:05:35] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: you need better table =)
[19:05:38] <mazafaka_> BBC Extra 1 online radio is somewhat weird
[19:05:46] <Jymmm> lotthat sucker wobbles around a lot =)
[19:06:06] <Loetmichel> hihi
[19:06:35] <Loetmichel> was just a office table with 20mm sqare steel tupe as feet
[19:06:37] <Loetmichel> tube
[19:06:41] <Jymmm> =)
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[19:06:52] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: where are you?
[19:07:28] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/hajo/vakuumbohr.avi <. that was the HELL of a dril job... 1000mm by 600mm 0,8mm holes... in 3mm raster ;-)
[19:07:31] <Loetmichel> germany
[19:07:53] <Loetmichel> lasted about 30 hours IIRC
[19:07:57] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Sorry, I can't watch any more of your videos, they keep locking up my browser for some reaosn.
[19:08:07] <Loetmichel> no problem
[19:08:35] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8211
[19:08:39] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8214
[19:08:43] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8217
[19:08:55] <Loetmichel> photos of the build of the vacuum plate
[19:09:23] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: If you upload them to tinypic.com it'll convert the videos fwiw
[19:09:42] <Loetmichel> why should i?
[19:09:44] <psha> Loetmichel: heh, you'd be happy that you don't need to do it manually :D
[19:09:55] <Loetmichel> psha: oh JEAH ;-)
[19:11:12] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Then they won't lock up browser... http://v7.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=j1639u
[19:11:23] <Jymmm> is all I was saying
[19:11:37] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i could convert all of them and put them back on my server
[19:11:50] <Loetmichel> but i am WAY to lazy to do that
[19:12:34] <Loetmichel> i am even to lazy to get my little router back in the house
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[19:12:51] <Loetmichel> have it in my cars trunk since three weeks ;-)
[19:13:03] <Jymmm> lol
[19:14:16] <alex4nder> hey
[19:15:31] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/fraese_in_auto.mp4 <- even used it on a Camp ;-)
[19:15:36] <Loetmichel> IN my trunk ;-)
[19:16:15] <Loetmichel> (sorry, THAT vieedo IS broken, sdcard was to sow for the cellphone ;-)
[19:16:20] <Loetmichel> slow
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[20:40:17] <ssi> D: that was terribad
[20:40:27] <ssi> almost didn't qualify for my medical cert
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[20:49:01] <JT-Shop> flight medical?
[20:50:15] <ssi> fa
[20:50:16] <ssi> ya
[20:50:35] <ssi> was out of limits on blood pressure... never had bp issues before
[20:50:36] <Xolotl4> two questions: 1.- EMC Fest 2011? 2.-which wand is is the best itx motherboard for EMC2?
[20:50:50] <ssi> but I was anxious about it to start with, and when I was a couple points out of limits the first time, it just got worse from anxiety
[20:51:37] <andypugh> They don't like folk popping in aeroplanes.
[20:52:07] <ssi> of course they dont, but dammit
[20:52:12] <andypugh> Xolotl4: I would probably say D510MO.
[20:52:23] <ssi> few things raise your blood pressure more than the prospect of losing your medical :(
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[20:54:34] <Xolotl4> andypugh: thanks.
[20:55:14] <JT-Shop> Andy heard anything about the D525MO?
[20:55:27] <JT-Shop> at least that one the parallel port is brought out...
[20:58:27] <andypugh> Well, on the mailing list somebody just said that latency was disappointing on the D525MW.
[20:59:29] <Tom_itx> i wonder which one i have
[21:01:36] <JT-Shop> newegg has 32 motherboards with the atom processor
[21:02:42] <Tom_itx> MW it appears
[21:03:05] <atom1> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442&cm_re=atom_d525_motherboard-_-13-121-442-_-Product
[21:04:17] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: what latency numbers do you get?
[21:06:21] <atom1> just starting up a few things i get Servo:7199 and Base:10637
[21:08:04] <FinboySlick> Help my french brain here: What do you call those single-wire 'connectors' that you clamp at the end of wires. Some have a fork to slide under a screw, others are a single pin to fit a terminal, etc.
[21:08:21] <Jymmm> stackon quick connects
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[21:09:26] <Jymmm> http://www.idealindustries.com/products/wire_termination/terminals_crimps/
[21:09:37] <Jymmm> crimp connectors
[21:09:49] <FinboySlick> Right, thanks.
[21:10:00] <Jymmm> they go by a variety of names
[21:11:51] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: That was enough to make Digikey find what I need :)
[21:11:58] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.677102
[21:12:13] <andypugh> FinboySlick: crimp spades.
[21:12:27] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Yeah, though the ones I need are pin, not spade.
[21:12:35] <Jymmm> gawd, what an ugly case
[21:12:38] <andypugh> bootlace ferrule
[21:13:04] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: like to cove a bare wire to prevent fraying?
[21:13:28] <Tom_itx> i think my case was $34
[21:13:35] <Tom_itx> iirc
[21:13:46] <andypugh> FinboySlick: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/crimp-terminals/3744292/
[21:13:54] <Xolotl4> so D525MW is the winer
[21:14:20] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Where are you located?
[21:14:23] <atom1> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091&cm_re=mini_itx_case-_-11-154-091-_-Product
[21:14:32] <Tom_itx> went up a bit
[21:14:43] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Eastern Quebec.
[21:14:48] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103509
[21:15:14] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: save you on shipping if you only need a few
[21:15:24] <jdhNC> those are pricey
[21:15:38] <Jymmm> jdhNC: and $10 in shipping makes it cheaper?
[21:16:11] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: You know, I didn't even think of that.
[21:16:34] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: I normally dont either, but I had seen them in RS
[21:16:55] <jdhNC> you can never have too many ferrules, get a 500 pack on ebay
[21:17:16] <atom1> 10378 servo and 10637 base now
[21:17:29] <Jymmm> atom1: latest bios?
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[21:17:40] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[21:17:43] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[21:17:55] <Jymmm> Seems it resolve rebooting issues
[21:17:58] <andypugh> Ah, yes, eBay might be the best source
[21:17:58] <Tom_itx> i haven't changed anything
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[21:19:11] <andypugh> I just searched on ebay.ca and all the sets were in the UK, bizarrely.
[21:19:14] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: "Fixed linux soft boot (I have tested XP pro, Ubuntu 10.10, Untangle, and pfSense) all work fine now that I have the latest BIOS. Except the activity light doesn't work in pfSense."
[21:19:21] <FinboySlick> My all nvidia Athlon board managed to hold < 7000 base 5000 servo for more than 24h now.
[21:19:26] <FinboySlick> I'm at a loss.
[21:19:51] <andypugh> But: http://cgi.ebay.ca/1000-BOOTLACE-FERRULES-5-SIZES-and-5-COLOURS-BOX-/250848831359
[21:20:23] <jdhNC> cool
[21:20:47] <jdhNC> the $125 crimpers are good too
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[21:35:13] <JT-Shop> I finally figured out what your talking about Andy http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Wiring_Solutions/Wire_End_Connectors/Insulated_Ferrules
[21:37:18] <andypugh> Calling them "bootlace ferrules" is a bit odd, as the metal bits on the ends of bootlaces are called "aglets"
[21:39:42] <JT-Shop> interesting wikipedia page on aglets
[21:40:28] <jdhNC> never heard them called bootlace ferrules
[21:40:51] <JT-Shop> I guess if I can't find anything else to do I'll go sand sheetrock mud
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[22:48:06] <JT-Shop> anyone drilled a leaf spring?
[22:50:24] <Tom_itx> bored?
[22:51:51] <Tom_itx> i would think it would weaken it and make the hole a point of failure
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[22:55:10] <JT-Shop> I'm cutting a truck leaf spring in half to make a ballista so I need a pin hole to capture the spring under the clamps
[22:55:46] <Tom_itx> i've never drilled one but i suppose you could
[22:56:06] <Tom_itx> probably a coated bit of some sort
[22:56:46] <JT-Shop> I'll give it the hillbilly hardness test to see
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