#emc | Logs for 2011-07-01

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[00:00:05] <Tom_L> yeah
[00:00:06] <Tom_L> door.jpg
[00:00:10] <Eartaker> hmm
[00:00:29] <Eartaker> oh... damnit I know what happened
[00:00:38] <elmo401> Eartaker: what is the price of something like that? is it priced per inch?
[00:01:06] <Eartaker> Tom, its there now
[00:01:31] <Eartaker> elmo, I think I paid ~$350 for all 3 and 6 nuts
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[00:02:25] <Eartaker> http://stores.ebay.com/linearmotionbearings/Other-/_i.html?_fsub=1&_sid=775365832&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322
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[00:02:42] <Eartaker> RM2005's are what I have
[00:03:05] <Tom_L> where did you sorce your cog belts?
[00:03:39] <Eartaker> Tom, here https://sdp-si.com/eStore/ goto belts then to trumotion
[00:03:52] <Tom_L> ok
[00:03:56] <Tom_L> i've ordered from them
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[00:04:05] <Eartaker> got the pulleys from them to
[00:04:06] <Tom_L> just wondered if you had a better source
[00:04:10] <Eartaker> ahh
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[00:04:17] <elmo401> belts you can get almost anywhere
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[00:04:23] <elmo401> same with pulleys
[00:04:38] <elmo401> I use the XL timing belts.
[00:05:12] <Eartaker> same here
[00:05:25] <Eartaker> 3/8" width
[00:07:07] <Tom_L> are you using retention knobs for your pneumatic tool holder?
[00:07:59] <Eartaker> probably not since im not sure what you are referring to
[00:08:16] <Tom_L> i'm just trying to figure out how it holds the tool holder in
[00:08:55] <Eartaker> oh
[00:09:09] <Eartaker> http://www.tormach.com/Flash/TTS_small.html
[00:09:20] <Tom_L> and is there some sort of thrust bearing so the cylinder doesn't spin or how does that work?
[00:09:28] <Tom_L> I saw that already
[00:10:19] <Eartaker> this might help... I made it for some guys on cnczone http://youtu.be/7mLTL3mcyuk
[00:10:38] <Eartaker> didnt have the tooling at the time but used a 3/4" endmill to show how it works
[00:10:40] <toastydeath> i don't know who made that animation but there is a reason only HSK toolholders work like that
[00:11:17] <toastydeath> the tolerance required for good repeatability and strong holding force is extreme
[00:11:39] <Eartaker> my springs put a load of 1800lbs on the drawbar
[00:11:52] <Eartaker> the cylinder is rated at 2000 @ 100 psi
[00:12:01] <toastydeath> that has nothing to do with the flaws of the toolholding system
[00:12:21] <Eartaker> the system works
[00:12:26] <toastydeath> of course it works
[00:12:31] <toastydeath> that's not the problem, is it?
[00:12:37] <toastydeath> the problem is that a ford pinto works
[00:12:42] <toastydeath> not well, but it works
[00:13:12] <Eartaker> whats wrong with my setup?
[00:13:14] <toastydeath> NMTB isn't a standard by accident, HSK deviates for very specific reasons
[00:13:20] <Tom_L> as a bomb
[00:13:20] <Tom_L> they should have recalled them all and sold them to terrorists
[00:14:17] <toastydeath> nothing is "wrong" with it per se, it's that a single interface toolholder has more holding force and better concentricity than a toolholder with multiple interfaces
[00:14:50] <toastydeath> HSK gets around that by having tolerances way under the deformation of the holder under tension
[00:15:00] <toastydeath> so the surfaces are ground and lapped in
[00:16:08] <Tom_L> this internet lag is killing me tonight
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[00:26:12] <Eartaker> Toasty, I didnt come up with the "tooling system" but I did design the drawbar. the tooling design comes from here http://www.tormach.com/Product_TTS2.html
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[00:52:22] <Valen> nice looking spingle
[00:52:29] <Valen> somewhat aftermarket?
[00:52:33] <Valen> spindle
[00:53:14] <Valen> ahh you replaced the face sheet lol
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[01:07:48] <Eartaker> =]
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[01:18:16] <Valen> Eartaker: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_our_hm45.html is what we did to ours ;->
[01:18:28] <Valen> though we really want a tool changer
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[01:21:40] <Eartaker> nice thats crazy
[01:21:47] <Eartaker> I can run mine at 7K rpm
[01:22:01] <Valen> ours was hitting 70C
[01:22:11] <Valen> at 1600 RPM
[01:22:20] <Eartaker> O_o
[01:22:27] <Valen> so we were somewhat worried about going faster
[01:22:43] <Eartaker> were you trying to use the stock bearings?
[01:22:49] <Valen> yeah
[01:22:55] <Valen> we looked at replacing them
[01:22:58] <Eartaker> heh, I got rid of those
[01:23:07] <Valen> but in ours the outside of the bearing was actually the casting
[01:23:12] <Valen> dodgy++
[01:23:26] <Eartaker> that dosnt make sence
[01:23:37] <Valen> its cheaper than putting real bearings in
[01:24:18] <Eartaker> yeah but shitty design... spindle bearing will eventualy need replaced on any machine
[01:24:25] <Valen> yup
[01:24:56] <Valen> the spindle we replaced it with has nice bearings in it suprisingly
[01:25:28] <Eartaker> I have seen those on ebay and a few other places... 2hp 3 phase right?
[01:25:54] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/zone/HM45_spindle/
[01:26:00] <Valen> 2.2Kw
[01:26:17] <Valen> 3hp
[01:26:25] <Valen> thats the old head
[01:26:27] <elmo401> not bad! I would love to have that... plus 3phase at my house :P
[01:26:40] <Valen> you use a variable frequency drive
[01:26:40] <Eartaker> the fisrst pic I can see the bearing race... mine looked like that and it is NOT part of the quill
[01:26:44] <Eartaker> first
[01:26:58] <Eartaker> yeah I do
[01:27:01] <Valen> it takes in 1 phase power
[01:27:11] <Valen> (talking to elmo401)
[01:27:35] <Valen> fairly sure ours is all one piece
[01:27:47] <Valen> though i spose it might be crudded up
[01:27:49] <Eartaker> elmo, I use the VFD as a phase converter. 220v single phase in and 208 3PH out
[01:28:26] <Eartaker> Valen in that first pic... if you flip the quill over and get a long rod you can tap the race out
[01:28:51] <Eartaker> or take a walder and weld a bead around the inside of the race and it will fall out
[01:28:53] <Eartaker> welder
[01:29:02] <Tom_itx> yeah those aren't part of the quill
[01:29:26] <Valen> sure looked it
[01:29:27] <elmo401> Eartaker: how efficient can that be?
[01:29:57] <Valen> pretty efficent
[01:30:44] <Eartaker> can what be? the welding?
[01:30:56] <Valen> the VFD
[01:31:01] <Eartaker> oh
[01:31:13] <elmo401> as a converter
[01:31:16] <elmo401> inverter
[01:31:26] <Tom_itx> Valen, is that a MT2?
[01:31:27] <Valen> beat the crap out of that whole stacked motor thing
[01:31:32] <Valen> i believe so
[01:31:44] <Eartaker> Elmo, this is the one I have http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.5578/.f?sc=2&category=15367
[01:32:01] <Tom_itx> i should look into rebuilding the one on my drill press
[01:32:12] <Valen> Eartaker: also new bearings would cost ~$400, the new spindle motor and VFD cost about that much ;->
[01:32:24] <Eartaker> heh, I paid $30 for my bearings
[01:32:33] <Valen> ebay?
[01:32:38] <Eartaker> VXB.com
[01:33:07] <Eartaker> used Nachi angular contact bearings
[01:33:57] <Valen> the vxb bearings are ok then?
[01:34:02] <Valen> i've heard bad things about them
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[01:36:09] <elmo40> I have a fanuc servo I need to drive. not a spindle motor but something for the X axis.
[01:36:16] <elmo40> I have no idea how I will drive it
[01:36:27] <elmo40> got it from work ;)
[01:36:39] <elmo40> already has an XL pulley on it :)
[01:37:33] <elmo40> an AC servo. their Beta line. B1/3000, 0.3kW, 144V 200Hz 3000RPM.
[01:37:40] <elmo40> good for an axis, no?
[01:37:53] <Eartaker> Valen I have had no issues so far
[01:37:54] <Valen> could be
[01:38:12] <Valen> Eartaker: i know where I'll be getting my replacement spindle bearings from then ;->
[01:38:21] <Eartaker> =]
[01:38:44] <Valen> if we can we might look at redoing the old head for doing steel work
[01:38:53] <Valen> problem is also the mechanical gearbox sucks ass
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[01:40:54] <Eartaker> yeah I converted to belt drive, thats anoter way I get 7K
[01:40:59] <Eartaker> another
[01:41:04] <Valen> it rattles and we can see the tool actually bouncing back during the cut
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[01:41:13] <Valen> we looked at it and decided new spindle was easier
[01:41:32] <Valen> also dropped the mass of the head from 100kg to 30kg which made Z axis much better
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[01:42:36] <Eartaker> here is my build thread http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/104146-rf-45_cnc_advice_needed.html
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[03:01:31] <mazafaka> /configs/sim/axis_mm <- velocity= 30 <- mm/s or mm/minute ??
[03:02:07] <cradek> all ini entries are /second
[03:02:17] <mazafaka> ok
[03:02:40] <GermainAdrian_> u guys have monitor arms on your cnc machines?
[03:03:25] <mazafaka> creation of g-code from .dxf opened in HeeksCNC is still tricky. Or maybe a load of fun, or load of coffee, or load of something... Heh.
[03:03:39] <cradek> GermainAdrian_: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/jr.jpg
[03:03:59] <GermainAdrian_> lol
[03:04:07] <GermainAdrian_> so you have a legit cnc machine
[03:04:43] <cradek> if you turn right you'll see a lathe running emc, too
[03:05:18] <GermainAdrian_> how much is time rental for cnc machines like that?
[03:05:23] <GermainAdrian_> say if I want to make something out of aluminum
[03:05:24] <mazafaka> tool change position = 0 0 50.8 plus hoe offset at Z axis, right?
[03:05:39] <ds3> is that sherline?
[03:06:39] <cradek> GermainAdrian_: you can't rent this machine, but rates for the machine and a skilled operator/programmer (me) are something like $60-$100/hr
[03:07:20] <cradek> unless the project is interesting, then it's $0/hr
[03:07:31] <cradek> so, hard to say
[03:07:43] <GermainAdrian_> how long would it take to make a monitor arm
[03:07:49] <GermainAdrian_> two aluminum pieces
[03:08:01] <ds3> cradek: does machining up parts for a grandfather clock count as 'interesting'? :D
[03:08:02] <cradek> depends on a lot
[03:08:43] <mazafaka> cradek: Am I right to I don't urgently need to use maximal velocity where it's only possible, neither I need maximal acceleration which probably ends up in braking before the corners?
[03:08:45] <cradek> well I'm not looking for any work to do, just now
[03:09:13] <cradek> mazafaka: the higher the accel you allow emc, the better and more responsive the path following
[03:09:24] <mazafaka> oh...
[03:10:00] <jdhNC> connor: nah, just Grizzly called again about my mill. In theory, it is shipping
[03:10:40] <mazafaka> Can I read any article on how to assign the correct acceleration and velocity limits to certain machine?
[03:11:05] <cradek> I don't know of an article like that
[03:11:17] <jdhNC> I think that woudl require one article per machine
[03:11:55] <cradek> yes it really depends on the machine
[03:12:28] <cradek> some machines (steppers) just stall if you are too optimistic. Other machines are powerful enough to beat themselves up
[03:12:53] <cradek> the latter kind of machine you configure by feel (what feels fast/responsive enough but not too violent)
[03:13:11] <cradek> the former by finding the point of failure and backing off by a safety margin
[03:16:03] <mazafaka> Yeah, depends on a certain machine
[03:16:38] <mazafaka> What is FERROR
[03:18:25] <mazafaka> Why X znd Z axes have a shared home, and Y only has a sequence?
[03:19:15] <Eartaker> ?
[03:19:34] <mazafaka> /configs/sim/axis_mm.ini
[03:20:27] <mazafaka> Fixtures can be a series of are uncut points, right?
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[03:56:53] <Connor> jdhNC: Oh cool.
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[03:57:20] <Connor> jdhNC: Can't believe that crap..
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[04:53:43] <mazafaka> But how sheet metal detail is meant to be fixed? Shall it be uncut at several places at its contour?
[04:54:24] <toastydeath> ..?
[04:54:31] <toastydeath> i don't understand the question
[04:55:46] <mazafaka> We cut U from sheet metal with end mill bit, how shall it be fixed, or only big metal sheet must be fixed?
[04:57:44] <mazafaka> this letter, U will not be fixed and mill bit will scratch it while it moves
[04:58:04] <toastydeath> sheet metal is almost never cut on milling machines for that reason
[04:58:07] <toastydeath> use double sided tape
[04:58:12] <toastydeath> lots and lots of double sided tape
[04:58:24] <mazafaka> oh, haha, yeah!
[04:58:28] <toastydeath> that isn't a joke
[04:58:29] <mazafaka> indeed
[04:58:30] <toastydeath> i really mean it
[04:58:51] <toastydeath> I had a mentor who used to run a 60" vertical lathe
[04:58:56] <mazafaka> yeah, i have just realised, it's about 18th hour behind the monitor
[04:59:06] <toastydeath> and he would cut 4x8 sheets of sheet metal into circles on it
[04:59:16] <toastydeath> he used double sided tape to secure the sheet on the lathe
[04:59:36] <toastydeath> for large objects, tape works well because there is so much surface
[04:59:42] <toastydeath> for small objects it does not work
[04:59:45] <toastydeath> just go slowly
[05:00:06] <mazafaka> it's spindle's plate is horizontal? We had ones to recreate cranes' wheels
[05:00:29] <mazafaka> oh, ok
[05:00:55] <toastydeath> yes
[05:01:02] <mazafaka> But 4 sheets 8 mm thick each one above another?
[05:01:18] <toastydeath> http://static.traderscity.com/board/userpix10/4193-vertical-turret-lathe-tos-sk-lat-3.jpg
[05:01:19] <toastydeath> this type
[05:01:22] <toastydeath> no, one sheet at a time
[05:01:31] <toastydeath> never two or more
[05:02:04] <mazafaka> Hey, this is photo from MRO department of our power plant!
[05:02:23] <toastydeath> it is one of the first results in google
[05:02:27] <toastydeath> for "vertical turret lathe"
[05:02:28] <mazafaka> Then what does '4x8' mean?
[05:02:48] <toastydeath> four feet by eight feet; 1.2m x 2.4m
[05:04:51] <mazafaka> this spindle is about 1 meter in diameter, hard to use detail 2.4 m in diameter. It's possible on Halloween only, and in The Simpsons world. ;)
[05:06:42] <toastydeath> he used larger machines for sheets that size
[05:07:12] <mazafaka> uh...
[05:07:31] <toastydeath> his main machines were 60"
[05:07:39] <toastydeath> 1.5m
[05:07:48] <toastydeath> other machines, 3m, 6m, etc
[05:07:52] <toastydeath> spindle diameter
[05:07:56] <mazafaka> that's not as cool as this impossible variant which I have offered
[05:08:02] <toastydeath> haha
[05:08:56] <mazafaka> I'm going mad/// I need to be at work, but I had to sit here for some reason. my new employer is waiting and cursing me
[05:09:09] <toastydeath> good luck
[05:09:43] <mazafaka> hah, in the morning of Monday they will either happy or unhappy to see me
[05:10:44] <toastydeath> haha
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[05:43:53] <awallin> psha: u have mail.
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[06:08:05] <mazafaka> What is a common way of working: editing .ngc file manually, or giving all current parameters to CAM software and only checking the code it generates each time?
[06:16:45] <toastydeath> you don't check cam code
[06:16:48] <toastydeath> i do both
[06:16:52] <toastydeath> or did
[06:17:11] <toastydeath> the vast majority of my work is manual editing
[06:17:30] <toastydeath> but another shop I worked briefly did the majority CAM
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[09:13:10] <sagC> Hi, I've got a bldc servomotor with a working encoder ... but instead of doing full revolutions it only turns very little and then vibrates a lot ... any hint which scale parameter could be wrong there?
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[09:24:49] <Eartaker> sagC...
[09:24:58] <Eartaker> what motor, encoder and what driver?
[09:26:23] <Eartaker> mainly what driver
[09:27:52] <sagC> hostmot2 with 7i39+5i20 and 3pwmgen and bldc driver, a WEDL5541-B06 Encoder and a BLDC DB57L01 Motor (encoder and motor both from nanotec)
[09:28:31] <Eartaker> do you have adjustment pots on your driver for PID settings?
[09:29:22] <sagC> i assume no..
[09:29:54] <sagC> but changing the pid.0.*** parameters is the way to go?
[09:30:05] <Eartaker> well the problem you describe sounds like the PID settings need adjusted... if your driver does not allow this then im not sure what to do
[09:30:19] <archivist_emc> emc is doing the pid
[09:30:28] <Eartaker> yeah if my settings are not correct then my servos do the same as your describe
[09:31:06] <Eartaker> how can EMC do the PID for a driver when all EMC does is output step/dir signals to the driver?
[09:31:45] <awallin_> in this case I guess emc outputs 3 pwm signals to a 3-phase bridge
[09:31:50] <Eartaker> SagC the problem is with your PID settings
[09:32:48] <sagC> hmm, is it there mainly PGain, IGain and DGain and maxoutput?
[09:33:01] <awallin_> I would guess you can see strange things if your commutation is wrong also. Those settings would be in the bldc components, not pid
[09:33:26] <sagC> I wish I'd know how to calculate the correct values there
[09:34:10] <Eartaker> Im not sure how to go about the bldc components... I run the Gecko drivers
[09:34:34] <Eartaker> but they will do the exact same if PID is not set right
[09:34:47] <sagC> the only thing I really know is that the encoder reports 2000 counts per full revolution, regarding the bldc.0.scale and encoder-scale (should be set there I think)
[09:37:09] <awallin_> you could probably test the bldc-component alone "open loop" without pid. you would need to build a custom pyvcp panel for this...
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[09:38:49] <sagC> is it normal that during "init" (after pressing F1 in axis) the rotor turns a bit in each direction, changing direction a few times ... (always the same sequence)
[09:39:02] <sagC> and the movement looks good during that short second
[09:39:43] <awallin_> you should look at the bldc documentation. somehow it find the relationship between hall-signals and the encoder during an init sequence
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[09:48:52] <Valen> sagC: its not something like you have the motor wires wrong?
[09:49:50] <sagC> I think it's right ... very sure it's a config error in the HAL file
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[09:51:37] <Valen> do you have any load on anything?
[09:51:59] <Valen> ie are the motors hooked up?
[09:52:05] <awallin_> I would suggest trying them in open-loop, i.e. wiring a pyvcp slider or something to bldc.value and see that you get smooth turning. if that is ok then you know the problem is in the pid-settings
[09:52:55] <psha[work]> 44
[09:54:05] <psha[work]> oops :)
[09:54:08] <psha[work]> netlag
[09:55:03] <sagC> yeah, there is load .... the motor can become very hot with wrong settings
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[10:23:28] <mazafaka> g01 x1 y1 F150 means 150 mm/s or mm/minute?
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[10:33:53] <sagC> could someone look at http://www.imagebanana.com/view/grfux9zn/HALScope1.png and http://www.imagebanana.com/view/nhu0kquv/HALScope2.png ? The first one shows the 3 Phases during rotor init which gives smooth movement, and the second one shows the 3 Phases when trying to do a homing run - but it just freezes the rotor after little movement
[10:34:19] <sagC> Why doesn't it just do it the same way it does during init?
[10:36:20] <mazafaka> "je me un tous clous la pe" - i.e. "I don't know while everybody in the chat are sleeping"
[10:36:54] <archivist_emc> has it found home hence stopped
[10:37:54] <sagC> no.... reported and actual position differ extremely..
[10:38:28] <archivist_emc> look at any error too
[10:38:30] <sagC> it'd abort homing immediately, unless you set FERROR = <very high> in the Ini file
[10:41:06] <sagC> but the 3 Phases in the HALScope2.png look really bad .... it should be 120degree shifted sinus wave
[10:41:54] <awallin_> I would still suggest disconnecting the pid-component and just getting bldc to work standalone first
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[10:49:02] <Valen> sagC: what happens when you turn the motor by hand
[10:49:14] <Valen> does the encoder count and in the right direction
[10:51:32] <sagC> yes, it counts ... i don't know which direction should count + and which - ... but it reflects turning direction and switches accordingly
[10:51:51] <Valen> is there an advance term or any such in there?
[10:51:57] <Valen> i dont know about the bldc mode
[10:52:12] <Valen> you probably want to talk to PCW and some other person i dont recall
[10:52:23] <sagC> it's loadrt bldc cfg=qi
[10:52:54] <Valen> still have nfi
[10:52:56] <Valen> never done it
[10:53:16] <sagC> is there a general rule for counting the direction, like clockwise is + and counter-clockwise is - or so?
[10:53:28] <Valen> not really
[10:54:30] <Valen> it still sounds like you have one of the motor wires connected wrong to me
[10:55:24] <sagC> there isn't that much that can be done wrong .... it's only 3 wires for the motor power A, B and C
[10:55:28] <sagC> and a few more for the encoder
[10:55:40] <Valen> it sounds like you have say A and B crossed over
[10:55:53] <Valen> and your trying to drive in one direction but the motor is going the other
[10:56:05] <Valen> or does it make it through a few commutations?
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[10:57:35] <sagC> only during init ... for homing it fixes in a certain position and is unmovable by hand, until Motor power stopped
[10:58:10] <sagC> it get's like 3A / 24V then, not moving in any way (just becoming warm ...)
[10:58:25] <Valen> its not commutating
[10:58:47] <Valen> try reversing one pair of motor wires and see what happens
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[11:06:43] <sagC> I've reversed A / C ... Init still works, but rest is the same
[11:07:26] <Valen> well if you reversed a motor wire and its still behaving the same then you have some issues
[11:07:33] <Valen> this is a brushless DC motor yes?
[11:07:42] <sagC> yes.
[11:07:56] <Valen> reversing any 2 pairs of wires reverses the direction of travel for a bldc motor
[11:08:37] <sagC> oh yes, it moves the other direction during init.
[11:08:51] <Valen> it shouldn't commutate though
[11:08:52] <sagC> but regarding homing it's still the same .... fixes in a certain position
[11:09:06] <Valen> if you turn homing off and jog what happens?
[11:09:30] <Valen> unless it is sposed to rotate during init or some such
[11:09:35] <Valen> but that doesn't sound right
[11:10:42] <sagC> i think it's supposed to rotate during init .... the manual says there "When the init pin goes high the motor will rotate (in a direction determined by the rev pin) until the encoder indicates an index-latch"
[11:11:04] <Valen> you have some kind of external controller do you?
[11:11:48] <sagC> it's mesa 5i20 in the pc and mesa 7i39 3Phase HBridge where the motor+encoder is connected
[11:11:56] <Valen> ok
[11:12:02] <sagC> 5i20 and 7i39 is connected via ribbon cable
[11:12:13] <Valen> well thats a good start at least
[11:12:23] <Valen> how much was the 7i39 out of curiosity?
[11:13:05] <sagC> i don't have the bill for that thing .... but it claims to be "lowcost"
[11:14:14] <Valen> lol
[11:14:44] <Valen> $149
[11:15:34] <sagC> why lol? aren't these supposed to work together?
[11:15:48] <Valen> lol at "i don't have the bill for that thing .... but it claims to be "lowcost""
[11:16:25] <Valen> but yes
[11:16:28] <Valen> turn homing off
[11:16:40] <Valen> then try jogging just a little and taking a look at ferror
[11:17:41] <sagC> yeah, the ferror increased - as the motor doesn't turn as expected
[11:18:03] <Valen> but you say you see it commutate?
[11:19:43] <sagC> there is visible movement, im not exactly sure what you mean by commutate
[11:19:48] <Valen> you really want to talk to pcw and andypugh
[11:20:02] <Valen> the outputs change
[11:20:11] <Valen> it cycles as it rotates
[11:20:46] <sagC> it changes, but not in cycles .... i think it stays in its first cycle.
[11:30:02] <Valen> cant really help you unfortunatly
[11:30:15] <sagC> np, thanks anyway ..
[11:30:27] <Valen> I'm going to try hooking up some lead acid batteries to my power supply for some more amps ;->
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[12:23:27] <mazafaka> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milling_cutter#Conventional_milling_versus_climb_milling from http://code.google.com/p/heekscnc/wiki/ProfileOperation <--- Some basic terms are described
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[13:24:18] <pcw_home> sagC can you post your HAL file somewhere? Also your encoder counts/rev. Note that for index init you need
[13:24:20] <pcw_home> BLDC scale, BLDC index offset, BLDC dir, to be correct or no-go
[13:26:21] <awallin_> do you have to measure an index offset between the encoder-index and the rotor yourself?
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[13:28:17] <pcw_home> Also # poles must be right
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[13:29:16] <sagC> pcw_home, here it is http://pastebin.de/17390
[13:29:34] <sagC> I've tried with bldc and bldc_sine .... currently with bldc
[13:29:43] <pcw_home> Yes because in general the index position will not be aligned with the field
[13:30:05] <sagC> can you see whether the scales there scales make sense?
[13:30:10] <sagC> hm, it seems to align during init
[13:30:40] <sagC> the encoder counts 2000 pulses per full revolution
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[13:30:46] <awallin_> hm, so how would one measure the index-offset using a motor and oscilloscope/multimeter?
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[13:31:54] <mazafaka> What does it mean: "Rapid stock removal with heavy milling cuts is sometimes called hogging." ??
[13:33:56] <pcw_home> you could do it by magnetically aligned the rotor, noting the encoder count and the rotating till index, and get the count difference
[13:34:02] <mazafaka> hogging... it means smacking
[13:34:40] <sagC> or actually ... the encoder is specified with 500 pulses per revolution - but it counts 2000 in rawcounts . I think it counts every rising / falling edge
[13:34:55] <mazafaka> lol, "gang milling"
[13:35:03] <sagC> Is it necessary to specify an encoder-offset? ..
[13:45:31] <pcw_home> absolutly
[13:46:33] <pcw_home> bbl TTWTD
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[13:55:50] <sagC> hm, to make sure .... BLDC-scale must be set to what hm2_5i20.0.encoder.00.count changes for a full motor revolution, is that right? that's definitely 2000, although the datasheet says 500 pulses per revolution
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[14:09:31] <mazafaka> So happy to ending my improvised days of knowledge on CNC-related themes.
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[14:42:59] <mazafaka> Why EMC say about the wrong o-word onto 'o123 (Test program)'
[14:49:13] <mazafaka> Knee mills are just regular manual mills?
[14:52:40] <syyl> a knee mill can also be a cnc
[14:52:59] <mazafaka> oh, ok
[14:52:59] <syyl> its a machine with the table moving up/down
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[15:10:17] <mikegg> does hostmot2 support using the 7i39 ?
[15:11:00] <elmo40> mazafaka: what is your file? lets figure out your error.
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[15:11:46] <elmo40> use an online pastebin such as http://hpaste.org/
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[15:19:36] <pcw_home> mikegg: yes with emc 2.5
[15:19:57] <mikegg> awesome
[15:20:19] <mikegg> I'm going to give it a shot I think
[15:21:04] <mikegg> will it work with the 7i43?
[15:21:19] <pcw_home> sagC: Yes 2000 is right for scale (poles is likely 4)
[15:21:38] <mazafaka> No, i don't have error, 'Standart ISO outpu' file from HeeksCNC starts with it
[15:23:33] <pcw_home> Yes 7I43 will work, needs three phase PWM firmware (and a fair amount of fussy setup as you can see)
[15:25:46] <mikegg> all the pins and matching the hall sensors to the motor phases, you mean?
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[15:29:58] <pcw_home> Well the Hall inputs are just GPIO, EMC does all commutation (based on mod encoder count)
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[15:32:02] <pcw_home> So if Halls are present they are just used for initial rotor alignment (by thr BLDC comp)
[15:32:46] <mikegg> and after that they are not necessary because EMC commutates based on encoder counts /3 or something?
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[15:35:21] <mikegg> oh, no. You align the hall sensors to each 1/3 of encoder counts for a revolution.
[15:35:34] <mikegg> and then just forget about the halls
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[16:23:26] <pcw_home> I think the Hall mode of the BLDC comp calculates the encoder offset from Hall state and the first Hall edge
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[16:43:05] <andypugh> Am I right in thinking that hal_parport just sits in a loop waiting to reset if reset is on?
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[16:49:06] <cradek> yes I think so
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[16:50:58] <mikegg> what are the power supply requirements for the 7i39? Will a transformer / filter cap / rectifier do the trick, or should I be looking for a switcher?
[16:51:21] <andypugh> The former is probably better.
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[16:52:13] <cradek> switchers seem fragile for loads like motors
[16:52:50] <cradek> transformers handle the occasional brief overload a lot better, too
[16:54:27] <pcw_home> Yea brute force is better, plus a 60Hz supply will have bigger output capacitors = important if you have no braking
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[16:56:59] <mikegg> so, are you saying the filter cap in the DC power supply will soak up some of the back EMF when going from go-fast to off?
[16:57:38] <mikegg> off = stop
[16:57:54] <cradek> yes
[16:58:20] <cradek> interesting idea - I wonder if that's what tends to pop switcher supplies
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[17:02:38] <archivist_emc> I think a lot of switchers are just poorly designed/protected
[17:03:20] <archivist_emc> the brute on my mill with 5 steppers hanging on it seems not to care
[17:04:06] <cpresser> archivist_emc: ack. a lot of switchers are still voltage controlled. forward-current-controll is way better for fast changing loads
[17:04:40] <cpresser> getting a switching-supply which says its 'compatible for steppers' should be enough.
[17:04:49] <archivist_emc> mines an industrial Lambda switcher
[17:05:33] <cpresser> adding additional output capacitors may help but is not always a good idea since it can detune the control loop of the switcher
[17:05:40] <cradek> I had an unknown switcher on my little stepper machine and it lasted maybe a year
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[17:06:05] <cradek> it was a big industrial open-frame thing, plenty over-rated
[17:06:35] <cpresser> the thing with switching-supplys is that you have to check the details. there are varius different approaches on how to build one. each with its own advantages
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[17:26:53] <andypugh> Blasted recruitment agencies. Just had one demanding tube-bending experience and offering £10 per hour. It's like they don't even look at your details. I don't have any tube-bending qualifications.
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[17:34:14] <ssi> go bend a tube
[17:34:21] <ssi> then you have tube-bending experience :D
[17:34:39] <ssi> I bent a tube with a harbor freight pipe bender a couple weeks ago
[17:34:44] <ssi> it came out looking like a lawn chair
[17:34:48] <ssi> nice flat corners
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[17:36:29] <mikegg> the 48 volt limit on the 7i39 is driven by the ability of the MOSFET's to dissipate heat, no?
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[17:38:57] <pcw_home> MOSFET breakdown voltage...
[17:39:23] <ssi> what he said
[17:39:36] <ssi> 48v * .001uA is next to no heat
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[17:43:09] <mikegg> SSI: do you need a 7i33?
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[17:55:54] <mikegg> I think mine is going to get shelved.. If you're ever down in Sandy Springs
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[18:26:42] <danimal_garage> mornin
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[18:27:46] <psha> anyone know what's timezone for awallin?
[18:28:23] <cradek> I think he's in europe somewhere, so near UTC
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[18:29:37] <psha> hm, so it's not too late for him...
[18:29:39] <psha> thx
[18:30:59] <danimal_garage> fresh smurf piss for the lathe
[18:31:17] <danimal_garage> thank god, because i didn't get the door closed in time and got a face full
[18:33:01] <syyl_> smurf piss? Oo
[18:33:20] <danimal_garage> coolant
[18:33:33] <syyl_> ah
[18:33:37] <syyl_> is it blue?
[18:33:38] <syyl_> Oo
[18:33:40] <danimal_garage> yes
[18:33:55] <syyl_> cool
[18:34:06] * Loetmichel s beard had glown blue today also ;-)
[18:34:51] <Loetmichel> played with ka chemical lightstick ("knicklicht") and heated it to cause more light (faster reaction) with a Lighter...
[18:35:17] <Loetmichel> stayed too long on one Place with the flame-> *POPP*
[18:35:29] <Loetmichel> *spit*
[18:36:03] <Loetmichel> my colleagues looked in disbelief: got the hot chemicals right in the face, glowing blue all over ;-)
[18:36:48] <danimal_garage> lol well that's natural selection
[18:37:55] <Loetmichel> ... and that "$%%&$ blue light fluid neither tastes good nor is very healthy :-(
[18:38:01] <syyl_> some liquids in chemical lights are inflamable
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[18:38:32] <Loetmichel> syyl_: this not, lucky me ;-)
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[18:41:05] <Loetmichel> i must have looked very strange, beard glowing bright blue ;-)
[18:41:33] <Loetmichel> (and that fluid burns like hell on skin, must be the H2O2 in it ;-)
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[18:55:36] <ssi> mikegg: which is the 7i33?
[18:55:46] <ssi> I probably could have a use for it on the mill
[18:58:21] <ssi> ah it's servo amps... I think I was thinking about the 7i37
[18:58:25] <ssi> I don't do anything with servos
[18:59:08] <danimal_garage> I <3 servos
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[19:05:27] <danimal_garage> i suppose it's too early for a beer
[19:13:42] <PCW> Its never too early for beer!
[19:16:37] <danimal_garage> PCW: i suppose you're right. I'm running parts that are a bit hard to screw up
[19:17:07] <danimal_garage> load fixture, push button
[19:17:46] <cradek> I could screw that up
[19:18:07] <danimal_garage> apparently so could my former employee
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[19:18:18] <danimal_garage> which is why i'm forced to run this crap now
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[19:24:43] <danimal_garage> dang it i just got a notice my property taxes are going up
[19:25:28] <ds3> increase in value due to addition of a shop with a EMC2 controlled machine?
[19:26:10] <danimal_garage> lol
[19:26:24] <danimal_garage> no, it's based on what properties are selling for in the area
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[19:27:43] <danimal_garage> i call bs on the assessment though, it's a far bit off
[19:33:14] <danimal_garage> it's funny how this comes around RIGHT after they deny the extension on the sales tax temporary increase
[19:33:30] <danimal_garage> they always find a way to get the money i suppose
[19:33:58] <ds3> danimal_garage: what county is this?
[19:34:13] <danimal_garage> San Diego, CA
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[19:41:23] <andypugh> Danimal: I am sure enough late-night machining and rusty gear out in the yard could bring property prices right down. The neighbours might even thank you.
[19:41:47] <danimal_garage> hahha
[19:41:59] <danimal_garage> too bad i just insulated the garage to keep the noise down
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[19:51:47] <mikegg> my dad has had to fight the county almost every year about property tax assesment. If you scream loud enough, you can usually get them to back down some..
[19:52:03] <andypugh> What is the intended use of "User Contributed Components" on the Wiki? What sort of things would get published there rather than be submitted to the project for inclusion?
[19:54:55] <cradek> andypugh: tough question, but maybe stuff that only a few people would care about?
[19:55:17] <andypugh> Move Pluto there as a hint :-)
[19:55:29] <cradek> also, the bar is lower - stuff that isn't quite finished would be another type maybe?
[19:55:52] <cradek> is someone asking about pluto again?
[19:56:01] <andypugh> I am trying to work out what, if anything, to do with this PCL720 driver.
[19:56:54] <cradek> my only feeling against adding it is that there is no maintainer (who has the hardware)
[19:57:22] <cradek> although we probably have other drivers like that too
[19:57:43] <cradek> why not just add it to master? do you have bad feelings about it?
[19:57:51] <moopy> i thought someone may be hinting about halitosis??
[19:58:04] <moopy> I brushed my teeth already though
[19:59:03] <andypugh> I probably ought to document it if it is to be added to Master, and see if it works with the PCI version. :-)
[19:59:52] <danimal_garage> mikegg: they claim my home's value increased 18% over the last year. I'm pretty certain it actually went down. I contacted the local news about it.
[20:01:04] <moopy> emc increases property values??
[20:01:33] <mikegg> more than Mach3. zzing
[20:02:24] <danimal_garage> ha
[20:07:07] <PCW> Andy: I think your "driver" comp would be good for master. Its a good hack to show how to interface unsupported (but documented) hardware
[20:07:54] -!- moopy has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
[20:10:26] <andypugh> It's actually a really easy card to interface. I just emailed the manufacturer to see if they want to lend me a PCI version.
[20:12:17] <PCW> PCI is likely the same except you need to ask the OS for the card address
[20:12:51] <PCW> s/same/similar/
[20:13:46] <andypugh> Aye, that would be my assumption. Possibly it declares model too.
[20:14:50] <andypugh> Then one might consider adding a "reset" function like the parport has to doubleup the step rate. (I wonder how the stepgen knows that it can send only 1s?)
[20:19:57] <PCW> ? doesnt reset just set the step bit to the idle state (whatever that happens to be)
[20:21:54] <andypugh> Yes, but the stepgen has to know that it can send a 1 next time round, and not waste a thread sending a zero.
[20:22:48] <PCW> Oh I thought its just busywaited the step time
[20:24:09] <andypugh> Yes, that is what the Parport driver does.
[20:24:24] <PCW> sigh, quadrature is so much nicer...
[20:24:34] <andypugh> Yes.
[20:24:51] <andypugh> I told the ISA card guy to check if his drives will take quadrature.
[20:26:46] <andypugh> He is running step/dir servo drives. But running out of pulse speed at 18000 steps per inch and 800 in/min rapids.
[20:28:02] <cradek> is this an unusually huge machine or something? at 800 ipm, any normal size machine is going to traverse its whole distance in a second or two
[20:28:26] <andypugh> I think it is a sizeable commercial router.
[20:29:17] <cradek> is it microstepping? 1/18000 inch seems smaller than necessary for a router
[20:29:21] <andypugh> It ran from an ISA/DOS PC until a lightning strike. I suspect it was a rather expensive bit of kit when new.
[20:29:59] <andypugh> Sorry, finger trouble, 1800 steps per inch. Still silly-fine for a router.
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[20:46:35] <danimal_garage> hmm it seems like my ram was bad even though it paassed memtest?
[20:46:50] <danimal_garage> i swapped it out and it hasn't crashed yet
[20:48:51] <danimal_garage> key word "yet" i suppose
[20:50:29] <Loetmichel> danimal_garage: maybe not
[20:50:34] <JT-Shop> my ram is bad too and I haven't crashed yet
[20:50:40] <Loetmichel> how long did you run memtest86?
[20:50:58] <danimal_garage> till it said pass 100%
[20:51:04] <danimal_garage> took a little while
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[20:58:00] <Spida> danimal_garage: only once?
[20:58:28] <Spida> danimal_garage: let it run over night...
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[21:00:52] <danimal_garage> yea only once
[21:01:05] <danimal_garage> well if this works then i know the ram was the issue
[21:01:23] <danimal_garage> if it shuts off again, then i know it wasnt
[21:02:21] <danimal_garage> its working better anyways
[21:02:29] <danimal_garage> seems more responsive
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[21:57:33] <PCW> Oops I guess I should have warned that our schematics typically don't show logic grounds
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[22:06:44] <Wall-W> hi
[22:08:14] <Wall-W> excuseme: I'm newbe. someone can link me a stepper morotor controller usable in emc2? thnks alot
[22:09:01] <Jymmm> http://www.geckodrive.com/g540-p-39.html
[22:09:57] <Wall-W> nice, but very expansive :(
[22:10:16] <jdhNC> where are you
[22:10:17] <Eartaker> what kind of stepper?
[22:10:44] <Eartaker> unipole or bipole?
[22:10:48] <Wall-W> 3 nema 23
[22:11:15] <jdhNC> good or inexpensive?
[22:11:22] <Eartaker> http://www.probotix.com/stepper_motor_drivers/
[22:11:33] <Wall-W> I'm a student. low budget...
[22:11:40] <Wall-W> inexpansive, but usable in emc2
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[22:11:52] <jdhNC> ebay, tb6560 perhaps
[22:12:21] <Wall-W> oky
[22:12:27] <Wall-W> toshiva TB6560
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[22:13:09] <Wall-W> http://cgi.ebay.it/3-axis-CNC-stepper-motor-driver-board-3A-V6560-Mach-3-/110472081031?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19b8a62e87
[22:13:13] <Wall-W> this ?
[22:13:39] <Eartaker> http://cgi.ebay.com/CNC-TB6560-3-Axis-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller-Board-/250781815058?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a63c2d112
[22:14:04] <Wall-W> oky
[22:14:18] <Wall-W> someone try this?
[22:15:30] <Wall-W> very very thanks
[22:16:50] <Wall-W> thank you very much. I want a good future for you. :)
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[22:33:54] <GermainAdrian> hi all, where would I look for self-locking screws? like those giant ones for power jacks.
[22:34:45] <Tom_itx> fastenal
[22:36:03] <GermainAdrian> I am trying to rig up a DIY stand up electrical desk
[22:36:11] <GermainAdrian> would it be cheaper to go with modded powerjacks or linear actuators?
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[22:36:52] <GermainAdrian> which is the same thing pretty much, slightly different deisng
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[23:47:11] <andypugh> GermainAdrian: Ordinary screws are self-locking. It is part of the job.
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[23:56:37] <danimal_garage> hmm still no computer crash, seems like it was the ram
[23:57:42] <danimal_garage> i think the onboard vga uses shared memory. The monitor would get this weird white bar up on the top right when it crashed.
[23:58:15] <andypugh> Sounds like a smoking gnu