#emc | Logs for 2011-06-27

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[00:00:26] <andypugh> I made 13 of these recently. More than you would expect for a 4-cylinder engine. https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5618582360379872482
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[00:05:58] <ds3> anyone used those import keyless chucks for drill presses?
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[00:06:31] <andypugh> Not sure I have ever used a non-import
[00:07:08] <ds3> how bad are they? are they on the same par as the ones that get fitted to the hand helded drills?
[00:07:19] <archivist_emc> I have used one at wok and it sure grips
[00:07:40] <andypugh> My dad might have a Pratt chuck somewhere, I suppose. But most seem to be imported Jacobs.
[00:07:41] <archivist_emc> much better than I expected
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[00:07:57] <ds3> http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-659/6MM-10MM-13MM-16MM/Detail
[00:08:04] <ds3> that's a clone of a Rohm isn't it?
[00:08:22] <archivist_emc> yup
[00:08:26] <ds3> so run out is not measured in 10's of mm?
[00:08:43] <archivist_emc> ours was good
[00:08:43] <andypugh> On my hand-drill I have a Makita chuck with carbide jaws. I like that,
[00:09:49] <andypugh> ds3: If you mean "Chinese" don't say "imported". To us Harley Davidsons are "imported"
[00:10:05] <ds3> carbide? so you can use that for taps too?
[00:10:19] <andypugh> Ditto Monarch lathes, Jacobs chucks, Milwaukee tools, Ford cars...
[00:10:32] <ds3> andypugh: sorry...that is a good point... I was referring to mystery clones coming from asia
[00:11:38] <andypugh> I have been using my cordless drill as a tap driver for years :-)
[00:12:55] <robin_sz> yep, cordless drills plus machine taps are great
[00:13:09] <robin_sz> I have a makita tapping tril *somewhere*
[00:13:23] <robin_sz> *drill
[00:13:38] <andypugh> Tapping Tril? Highly-trained budgie?
[00:13:52] <robin_sz> thats a nice thing, low geared, adjustable slip clutch and auto-reverce gearbox whe you pull it out
[00:14:30] <robin_sz> yes, i believe it has a small budgie inside it
[00:15:15] <andypugh> Oh, back to that Boxford TCL 140, it has a 35mm spindle bore, so isn't toy-sized.
[00:15:30] <robin_sz> no, thats fairly decenty
[00:18:17] <andypugh> Right, time to sleep.
[00:18:20] <andypugh> Night all.
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[00:18:25] <robin_sz> have fun ;)
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[00:33:08] <obnauticus> How would one measure a very complex linear movement with an encoder?
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[01:22:40] <KimK> obnauticus: By adding a second encoder and recording both readings? Are you talking about a probing type of measurement? Using EMC2? Sorry, it would help if we knew more about what you are trying to do.
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[01:52:05] <ds3>
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[04:50:38] <frankenstein> I am setting up linuxcnc just to test a driver, I have tried to load the config file, but get an error. Do I need to edit the provide configuration for my system?
[04:51:19] <KimK> What error do you get?
[04:52:15] <frankenstein> after I asked I realized that would be helpful to list the specific error. sorry for being such a dunce on that one
[04:52:32] <frankenstein> will have to go get the error again and return back with the info.
[04:53:11] <KimK> No problem. If it's big, maybe you can post it at pastebin.com or some such place?
[05:00:37] <frankenstein> will do, yes, it appears big.
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[05:04:14] <frankenstein> http://pastebin.com/Jq7UGBgj
[05:08:00] <frankenstein> looks like "can't write"
[05:09:33] <frankenstein> found an answer on the forums
[05:09:41] <KimK> This line looks like the giveaway: Unrecognized line skipped: POC FMS LEN DIAM COMMENT I think you are having trouble with the old tooltable format, maybe?
[05:10:10] <KimK> Try using the new tooltable and see if it starts for you.
[05:10:27] <frankenstein> thanks will do
[05:11:10] <KimK> Or delete your existing one and see if the built-in tooltable editor will recreate one for you.
[05:11:19] <frankenstein> ok
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[05:21:12] <frankenstein> I needed to delete the emc.nml from the ini file....just did so and the configuration now works.
[05:21:16] <frankenstein> thanks for your help
[05:22:45] <KimK> Great, good luck!
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[05:44:16] <mazafaka> We have dovetails (adjustable guide rails), which are clamped on bolts on our old Russian manual milling mashines and lathes.
[05:45:58] <mazafaka> Their casted plates are solid but start to vibrate wehn you are trying to cut off too much metal at once.
[06:03:52] <mazafaka> Somewhat usefull: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am5774rnjtU&NR=1
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[06:09:49] <mazafaka> I mean, for finishing holes for pins in pin flexible half-couplings. I had to count the degrees when rotated the half-coupling on some old rotary table.
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[06:13:51] <KimK> mazafaka: Thanks for posting that, it's a simple idea, but easy to make and very useful. And it lends itself to a variety of improvements. I imagine something clever could be done with the hole/pin count too, like a poor man's dividing wheel. Thanks again.
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[07:17:00] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[07:23:29] <mazafaka> afternoon
[07:27:29] <mk0> 10:27
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[08:02:01] <mrsunshine_> hmm, what to use to clean the granite surface?
[08:02:08] <mrsunshine_> just some solvent ?
[08:02:12] <mrsunshine_> im afraid i damage the stone ;P
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[08:15:23] <mazafaka1> Tide and water
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[08:19:00] <mrsunshine_> hmm, need to make oil channels in the mill also
[08:26:21] <mrsunshine_> hmm, and i dont know how to put them, diagonaly over the flat surface, does it have to have one inside the dovetail part also ?
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[08:30:56] <mazafaka1> You may want to lube guide rails manually, before the work starts. Because this all will be very dirty. You also may want to use somewhat else than mineral oil. E.g. silicone lubricant.
[08:33:40] <mazafaka1> Dovetails on our manual milling machine were very dirty, and despite the automatic oil supply, we stopped the machine and clean these guide rails with rags. And manually adding oil onto it then, did not wait for the moment the machine will pump the oil and wet the rails.
[08:37:43] <mazafaka1> Cutting chips from metal isn't so dirty, but the dust from textolite... You also need way wipers made of rough rubber.
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[08:40:00] <mrsunshine_> gonna have bellows to cover the ways on it
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[10:48:20] <mazafaka_> Are here any Russians who work with SprutCAM?
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[13:15:25] <archivist_emc> !later mazafaka_ ask about SprutCAM in #cam also
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[13:32:40] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qczWC0Lk9qw
[13:32:48] <skunkworks> nice test equipment
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[13:33:46] <mazafaka> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_head#Phillips
[13:34:05] <mazafaka> So much of screwdrivers...
[13:34:56] <archivist_emc> mazafaka ask about SprutCAM in #cam also
[13:35:56] <mazafaka> I don't really need it. I'm using its demo at the moment. And I usually give the hints myself, can not ask questions at others.
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[14:05:56] <mazafaka> Speaking of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qczWC0Lk9qw, does usual computer handle RTAI or it may need additional radiators on its chips?
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[14:09:48] <mazafaka> Two laptops I have ever used could not work in LinuxEMC's RTAI mode. (Mine one didn't work at all, another one worked several minutes unless the screen started to show the same.)
[14:10:53] <psha[work]> mazafaka: usually every powersave feature is disabled in rtai
[14:11:24] <psha[work]> but in most cases additional heatsinks are not needed
[14:12:29] <psha[work]> notebooks have much more compact packaging and thus more affected by heating
[14:13:37] <mazafaka> But "usual" table top is rather working than not, does it?
[14:13:53] <psha[work]> yes
[14:14:01] <psha[work]> but it may work bad ;)
[14:14:11] <psha[work]> depends on motherboard and video card
[14:19:14] <mazafaka> Work bad? I thought there's only two variants: it is working or overheats and the screen shows the same.
[14:19:32] <psha[work]> no, it may work but latency is very high
[14:21:56] <FinboySlick> psha[work]: I've been trying to look into rtai debugging tools to help identify just what causes latency spikes. It'd be great to have a list of what interrupts were called before a spike, etc.
[14:23:47] <psha[work]> ahm, it's cheaper to throw away bad motherboard and find new ;)
[14:23:50] <mazafaka> Oh, latency...
[14:24:38] <FinboySlick> psha[work]: Yeah, but if we can come up with a tool that gives better hints, it might help make EMC a tad more accessible.
[14:25:30] <psha[work]> as i understand there are some recomendations about what's good and what's bad for rtai
[14:25:38] <psha[work]> for example video cards is usually bad
[14:25:51] <psha[work]> but intel and radeon (not fglrx) drivers are working fine
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[14:27:22] <FinboySlick> psha[work]: Yeah. I'm getting surprisingly decent results with nouveau.
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[14:28:30] <FinboySlick> There's a bad spike though that only seems to happen after several hours.
[14:28:42] <FinboySlick> Or maybe it's entirely random.
[14:28:48] <psha[work]> probably
[14:29:20] <FinboySlick> Knowing what causes it would save me getting new hardware only to have to risk debugging similar problems with it.
[14:29:46] <FinboySlick> I don't really like the whole guesswork part of it.
[14:29:51] <mazafaka> with "nouveau"
[14:29:53] <mazafaka> ?
[14:30:13] <FinboySlick> mazafaka: Well, nouveau is on it, but I have no clue if nouveau is causing it.
[14:30:46] <mazafaka> What is "nouveau"??
[14:31:00] <FinboySlick> mazafaka: open source nvidia driver.
[14:32:01] <FinboySlick> The main sources of spikes on that computere were an onboard NIC. Disabled it and went very very smooth.
[14:32:28] <psha[work]> FinboySlick: have you tried vesa driver?
[14:32:34] <FinboySlick> Except for that random spike... That is too random for me to figure out how often it happens.
[14:33:15] <FinboySlick> psha[work]: Not yet.
[14:34:10] <mazafaka> What is NIC ??
[14:35:04] <FinboySlick> mazafaka: nforce2 NIC.
[14:35:54] <FinboySlick> mazafaka: MCP-T
[14:41:19] <psha[work]> FinboySlick: heh, i'm avoiding nvidia chips :)
[14:41:44] <FinboySlick> psha[work]: I would too, but of all the boards I tried, that one gave me the best results.
[14:41:53] <psha[work]> nothing strange that nforce is causing problems
[14:42:56] <FinboySlick> I'd like something like an Aopen DE2700.
[14:43:10] <FinboySlick> But with a parallel port.
[14:43:33] <psha[work]> i've tried 3 boards - d510mo (atom), intel ~965 chipset (don't remember) and asus on amd 880G chipset
[14:43:47] <psha[work]> last was best (but i need to run 12h latency test on it)
[14:44:03] <FinboySlick> psha[work]: Mine will do 12h just fine.
[14:44:45] <FinboySlick> psha[work]: But if I leave it on a couple days, I'll see a 700000ns max jitter figure.
[14:44:52] <psha[work]> FinboySlick: buy d510mo board and cheap miniitx enclosure
[14:45:26] <FinboySlick> psha[work]: I'm planning to.
[14:45:52] psha[work] is now known as psha
[14:45:57] <psha> work's finished
[14:46:00] <psha> :)
[14:46:03] <psha> time to go home
[14:46:04] <psha> bb
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[15:07:39] <FinboySlick> You guys think this would give good results? http://www.logicsupply.com/products/d425kt
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[15:17:20] <jdhNC> would a 7i43 get rid of most latency issues?
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[15:33:31] <ktchk> kimk: Good morning usa
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[15:37:28] <ktchk> mazafaka: good morning
[15:37:40] <mazafaka> May I call the postprocessor as Hardware Application Level?
[15:38:01] <mazafaka> ktchk: It's 11 o'clock in the evening :)
[15:38:28] <ktchk> Yes I always sleep at 2am
[15:38:42] <mazafaka> I am close to China, GMT +6, south of Russia.
[15:39:26] <ktchk> you are in russia
[15:40:10] <mazafaka> It's better to wake up at 4 or 5 am with the dawn, it's more effective for the work.
[15:41:05] <ktchk> well I wake up at 9 and start the day
[15:41:08] <jdhNC> for the work of sitting on your ass in front of a computer?
[15:41:35] <jdhNC> waking up at 4 or 5 am would not be effective for me.
[15:41:39] <mazafaka> I am about to skateboarding and cycling at morning, 3:50 or 4:20 am is on my alarm clock. I earlier worked on a 5+2 schedule, woke up at 4:00 and came home at 7:00 pm
[15:43:03] <jdhNC> 4:20, ahh.
[15:43:10] <mazafaka> jdhNC: no, you just see the rest of the people just start the day - and you have already finished to do something, you have some rest while others are just lame because of morning, and you finally start the rest earlier in the evening.
[15:45:04] <ktchk> emc questions I have the chinese said the emc can not do a tangent knife right?
[15:48:36] <mazafaka> "Tangent knife"?
[15:49:03] <jdhNC> like a drag knife, but the blade tracks the direction of cut
[15:49:12] <ktchk> right
[15:49:27] <mazafaka> Or tangential line?
[15:49:55] <mazafaka> I don't know...
[15:55:36] <ktchk> mazafaka: do you do routing milling or just computer?
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[15:57:25] <ktchk> jdhNC: same question as you know tangent knife
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[16:03:13] <cpresser> ktchk: if you have an 'active knife' (a rotation-axis for the knife) you just need to generate g-code for it.
[16:03:29] <cpresser> there is an inkscape-plugin which can do this for you.
[16:04:14] <mazafaka> ktchk: I do not build anything, and never built. I'm just here, with folks.
[16:04:37] <mazafaka> What inkscape plugin?
[16:04:54] <cpresser> found it: http://www.cnc-club.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33
[16:05:28] <mazafaka> it doesn't exist.
[16:05:34] <ktchk> That I have installed but not learned to workwith
[16:06:25] <mazafaka> cpresser: What inkscape plugin? what does it help to generate?
[16:06:27] <cpresser> sorry, copy-paste-error.
[16:06:28] <cpresser> http://www.cnc-club.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35
[16:06:44] <cpresser> mazafaka: it generates gcode from vectors. its a simple CAM-application
[16:07:12] <mazafaka> As HeeksCNC
[16:07:38] <mazafaka> Interesting, hope it offers all the functionality.
[16:07:45] <ktchk> g-code for A axis with tangent info?
[16:09:02] <mazafaka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0shGe1daiSo <-- HeeksCNC. When I used it several years ago, there were some tricky moments in work with it.
[16:11:47] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[16:20:51] <ktchk> cpresser: I found tangent knife under inkscale plugin but see no specific work it does can you example it?
[16:21:13] <cpresser> no, never worked with it. i just read the descrition
[16:21:28] <ktchk> thanks
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[17:50:54] <mrsunshine_> i find it amusing how stupid the chinease are sometimes
[17:51:04] <mrsunshine_> there are flat ground surfaces on the mill, but they have ground the wrong freakin surfaces
[17:51:21] <mrsunshine_> the ground surfaces are juts hanging in the air while the raw milled surfaces are used as gliding surfaces :P
[17:53:10] <mrsunshine_> its no wonder the tolerances are like crap on the mill :P
[17:53:23] <mrsunshine_> and that it binds up
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[17:55:09] <syyl_> the mill marks are lubrication pockets ;)
[17:56:16] <mrsunshine_> well they are quite big in that case ;P
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[17:57:30] <syyl_> time to learn scraping ;)
[17:57:39] <syyl_> or find someone with a surfacegrinder..
[17:57:58] <mrsunshine_> i am learning scraping so it will be a long job :P
[17:58:07] <mrsunshine_> hard to surface grind inside of dovetails :/
[17:58:14] <syyl_> yeah
[17:58:25] <syyl_> there are special bedway grinding machines
[17:58:33] <syyl_> that can do all surfaces in one setup
[17:58:57] <syyl_> not that common in the shop around the corner
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[17:59:28] <mrsunshine_> atm im thinking of how to make connection points for thin copper pipes for lubrication
[17:59:44] <mrsunshine_> have to have those ways ground out before i start scraping i think would be best =)
[18:00:10] <syyl_> a ground surface is not that nice to scrape
[18:00:19] <syyl_> milled is better
[18:00:27] <syyl_> shapef is even better
[18:00:31] <syyl_> *shaped
[18:00:31] <mrsunshine_> syyl_, that is grind out just pockets for the librication stuff
[18:00:42] <syyl_> ah
[18:01:10] <mrsunshine_> making a lubrication system on the mill also as it lacks that also =)
[18:01:17] <syyl_> hehe
[18:01:21] <syyl_> hmm
[18:01:34] <syyl_> why dont you go for pneumatic fittings
[18:01:46] <mrsunshine_> do they withstand oil good ?
[18:02:05] <syyl_> i have seen commercial machines using them
[18:02:52] <mrsunshine_> syyl_, i was thinking something along the ways of break pipe stuff or something =)
[18:03:17] <syyl_> copper would look realy neat :)
[18:03:19] <mrsunshine_> tho using pneumatic stuff i could just go for "hozes" ?
[18:03:22] <tom3p> Festo PUV hose and fittings handle lube oil, but are more expensive than std plastic oil lube distribution hdwr
[18:04:33] <mrsunshine_> damn those break pipe stuff were big :/
[18:04:35] <mrsunshine_> M10 thread
[18:04:49] <syyl_> more lube, more good :D
[18:06:58] <mrsunshine_> now thats better
[18:07:02] <mrsunshine_> M5 thread
[18:07:10] <mrsunshine_> (pneumatic stuff)
[18:07:38] <tom3p> real machinery lube equipment http://bijur-lubrication.industeq.com/documents/214_B_SYS_CLE_BR.pdf
[18:08:40] <syyl_> arceurotrade has the cheap chinese lube stuff
[18:09:12] <tom3p> http://www.home-machine-shop.com/ONE_SHOT_OILER/pages/One-Shot_X3_Manifold.html
[18:09:49] <syyl_> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/One-Shot-Lubrication-System
[18:09:55] <syyl_> will buy that one for my mill
[18:10:26] <syyl_> but use festo fittings
[18:10:36] <syyl_> as there is a festo dealer in my town
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[18:12:49] <tom3p> check the mcmaster carr numbers in that posting above, (usually cheap & fast)
[18:14:06] <tom3p> oops, uk, never mind
[18:14:40] <syyl_> germany, but over here you cant get a cheap one shot lubrication system
[18:15:02] <syyl_> only the very expensive vogel units
[18:15:23] <FinboySlick> mine uses simple plastic tubing with brass fittings and steel springs around the tubing.
[18:15:45] <FinboySlick> Not sure how durable it actually is but it sure looks fancy.
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[18:55:36] <skunkworks> jdhNC: what is your latency right now?
[18:57:54] <jdhNC> 35000
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[18:59:24] <jdhNC> doesn't seem to matter for this machine. It was more a general question.
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[19:05:04] <FinboySlick> Optiplex are pretty good, aren't they?
[19:05:19] <FinboySlick> Any chipset I should be looking at? I found a bunch of refurb.
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[19:05:21] <skunkworks> normally when you are using external step/pwm/encoder counters emc only needs the servo thread which is usually 1ms. for sure 35us jitter would not be an issue with that.
[19:08:17] <KimK> FinboySlick: I believe your idea (mentioned earlier) of a software tool to investigate latency delays is a good one. Let us know if you decide to go ahead with it, perhaps there are some here (on in #emc-devel) who can help and you will not have to do it alone. (I don't like latency mysteries either, an investigative tool of some kind, even if limited, would be great.)
[19:09:09] <FinboySlick> KimK: Maybe something like LTT would be a good start.
[19:09:13] <KimK> s/ (on in / (or in /
[19:11:01] <KimK> FinboySlick: LTT? Is there a link?
[19:11:23] <FinboySlick> KimK http://www.opersys.com/ltt/index.html
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[19:13:43] <FinboySlick> KimK: My approach would be to run the latency test tool with LTT in the background, set a jitter threshold value and when you go over threshold, you save your memory backlog of events to disk.
[19:14:24] <FinboySlick> basically, you do a circular log of say 1 minute of all events, dump it to disk as soon as you get a jitter spike.
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[19:16:47] <FinboySlick> KimK: Should be pretty easy to mod the latency test tool to run a command when there's a jitter spike.
[19:17:02] <FinboySlick> KimK: So code-wise, it's a no-brainer.
[19:17:40] <FinboySlick> Heck, you could just have it exit when there's a latency spike and that'd do just fine.
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[19:25:41] <KimK> FinboySlick: OK, well it sounds great, keep us posted, maybe use a wiki page?
[19:25:45] <mrsunshine_> quite expensive to make the oil system
[19:25:46] <mrsunshine_> :/
[19:26:20] <andypugh> Is it just me, or when you use the search box on the LinuxNC page left-side do half the search results come back with titles spamming dodgy software?
[19:26:34] <FinboySlick> KimK: Sure thing. BTW, onboard intel video is bad, right?
[19:26:44] <FinboySlick> (for jitter, that is)
[19:26:53] <andypugh> Onboard intel video on D510 is fine.
[19:27:21] <andypugh> (which is lucky as there aren't any other options)
[19:28:03] <KimK> mrsunshine_: Yes, a friend of mine found that out when he had to buy a bunch of new metering orifices for his Bridgeport.
[19:28:39] <cradek> I was able to clean/unplug mine with penetrating oil under high pressure
[19:28:44] <mrsunshine_> well, for one axis ive calculated about 25usd
[19:28:51] <mrsunshine_> so 75 usd for the whole mill
[19:28:54] <mrsunshine_> about
[19:28:56] <cradek> I bought a gizmo for unplugging grease zerks and adapted it
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[19:30:50] <skunkworks> you can get crazy pressures with a grease gun
[19:31:12] <cradek> yes that's the idea (but don't squirt grease in them of course - that won't help)
[19:31:21] <KimK> cradek: That would be worth trying, glad it worked for you. John's were clogged with something more like tar, though, I wonder if they could have been saved? I could ask if he still has them and get you one for testing?
[19:32:12] <KimK> cradek: For future reference, I mean. His mill is repaired.
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[19:32:57] <KimK> cradek: Or, is your grease gun how-to on your blog?
[19:33:11] <cradek> http://www.zerkzapper.com/452.html
[19:33:23] <cradek> I used something like this 'zerk zapper'
[19:33:27] <cradek> don't know what the actual name was
[19:33:36] <cradek> it's a hydraulic plunger set up to be smacked with a hammer
[19:33:57] <kb8wmc> good day to all
[19:34:03] <cradek> bbl
[19:34:07] <KimK> Wow, that *would* get you some peak pressures.
[19:35:25] <KimK> Of course, the orifice opening is small, so you would need high pressures, I suppose. If you didn't split the brass shell.
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[19:39:32] <KimK> andypugh: I just checked, I saw no spam entries on the wiki. I did an empty search, got 430 entries, checked a couple unfamiliar ones, they were legit.
[19:40:04] <andypugh> Let me show you what I mean
[19:40:29] <KimK> Yes, please do.
[19:43:25] <andypugh> http://imagebin.org/160265
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[19:43:42] <andypugh> You get taken to legit search results, but some of the titles are wrong.
[19:44:58] <andypugh> And, even worse, the maths is wrong. -154% off means that you pay 2.54x the list price, surely? Or, if they mean 154% discount, that they pay you 54% of the value to take it away?
[19:46:45] <KimK> Sorry to be dense, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing there. How did you get from the wiki page search to the google page shown?
[19:47:36] <andypugh> It's not from the Wiki search page?
[19:47:53] <andypugh> It's from the search box on the left of the linuxcnc.org home page.
[19:47:59] <KimK> Or is this a search starting from the main (www) page, I didn't look there.
[19:49:06] <KimK> Oh, the Google search box on the main page? Bah, never use it.
[19:49:38] <KimK> I couldn't tell you anything about it.
[19:50:00] <andypugh> You could tell me if it is equally weird for you?
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[19:54:06] <tom3p> andy i noticed the commercial messages tied to linuxcnc also, found it was hard to explain what was wrong, it looks as if somethings been pirated/sat on/jumped
[19:54:48] <andypugh> It isn't even as if there is any clue as to how to collect the bargains..
[19:59:15] <KimK> Yes, I get some of the "spam titles" too, but surprisingly, the links are good/reasonable/appropriate (I searched on "resolver" too, as I saw you did.)
[20:00:20] <tom3p> on my box, use firefox google search 'emc cnc' and get "Adobe Acrobat 9 Problems — Sale -127% price off" 1st hit
[20:01:19] <tom3p> annoying, but seemed 'mostly harmless'
[20:01:25] <KimK> Andy, I couldn't see the right side of your browser, how did yours compare with: "Results 1 - 10 of about 691 from linuxcnc.org for resolver. (0.60 seconds)"
[20:01:42] <andypugh> Yes. Searching the Joomla forums suggests that this leads to the Google ranking of the site dropping. Perhaps it is a subtle attack by the Mach3 Collective?
[20:02:30] <tom3p> ^^^ that link was to www.linuxcnc.org/
[20:03:06] <andypugh> tom3p: If you click the link with the Adobe link, do you actually get Linuxcnc? I get a blank screen
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[20:06:02] <tom3p> http://imagebin.org/160272
[20:06:18] -!- moopy [moopy!~moopy@82.152.150.86] has joined #emc
[20:06:35] <tom3p> yes
[20:06:49] <tom3p> it goes to linux cnc site
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[20:07:54] <KimK> andypugh: Me too. In fact, if I just hover over the "spam titles" it shows the (good) linuxcnc.org link in the status bar.
[20:09:58] <andypugh> Odd. I get the good URL, but a blank screen. Typing in the url gives me the site. Perhaps my browser is beong over-protective
[20:13:15] <tom3p> i sent Google a request to clean the commericial text off the link
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[20:14:19] <tom3p> i'm using Namoroka ( a version of FFox that allows Gears, so i have offline Gmail )
[20:15:10] <KimK> Are all the "spam titles" from people with "deep pockets" like Adobe, etc? People who could "buy their way to the top", etc.?
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[20:16:17] <tom3p> andypugh, i get lost reading the good mobo for emc links... would you think the DM510MO ( mount olive) , 2G ram, and 1 sata hd with Mesa 5i20 would work?
[20:16:39] <tom3p> KimK haha paranoia strikes deep
[20:17:32] <KimK> Yes, I'm not sure how pretending to be a "shady merchant offering bargains" would promote their brand, but maybe it would?
[20:17:46] <andypugh> tom3p: You think Google are doing it? I think that something black-hat on our Joomla site is returning spammy page titles.
[20:18:55] <tom3p> andypugh, dunno but it goes thru google so they might be able to squash it
[20:19:34] <KimK> andypugh: Google doing it would seem the easiest way, but maybe a rootkit check would be in order anyway?
[20:20:36] <KimK> andypugh: Is this something that has occurred recently? When did you first notice this change?
[20:20:57] <tom3p> for me, its been in the last 3 weeks
[20:21:47] <andypugh> It's been a few sweeks.
[20:22:19] <KimK> It seems like you two are in general agreement, then.
[20:24:27] <KimK> Have there been any other posts in the last few weeks about similar things happening to other (Google-related) websites?
[20:26:43] <andypugh> searching for "joomla google search spam" returns some hints
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[20:30:32] <tom3p> doh search for "Adobe Acrobat 9 Problems — Sale -127% price off" and get loads
[20:31:03] <tom3p> lots of the hits are indonesean
[20:32:24] <tom3p> i really dont care to click on any of those links :)
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[21:05:36] <tom3p> is this a good combo ? DM510MO ( mount olive) , 2G ram, and 1 sata hd with Mesa 5i20 pci ?
[21:05:38] <tom3p> ( i know its subjective, but want some hand holding b4 i drop the 150$ :)
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[21:07:16] <andypugh> tom3p: Well, the 2G ram is probably more than necessary.
[21:07:42] -!- Transformer [Transformer!~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has parted #emc
[21:07:49] <andypugh> And it is nice to run an SSD HD. And then you can use a PicoPSU and run it from the machine 12V supply.
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[21:16:26] <tom3p> andypugh, thx, the dealer also has 1g mem. is the D510MO good base for emc2 stepper tho? ( I need to u/g from really old boxes )
[21:16:42] <andypugh> tom3p, KimK, Interesting google cache link from a friend: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qG2QvQpF3zoJ:www.linuxcnc.org/+emc2+cnc&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&source=www.google.co.uk
[21:17:10] <andypugh> tom3p: Yes, latency is about 7k, about as good as you see.
[21:18:17] <tom3p> great , thx
[21:19:21] <tom3p> wow! thats really been stomped on
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[21:25:34] <psha> andypugh: you've reported issues with webcam and rtai?
[21:26:12] <andypugh> Well, I have mentioned them in passing.
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[21:31:49] <psha> andypugh: you have one camera connected?
[21:31:51] <psha> UVC?
[21:32:30] <andypugh> I can't actually remember. Let me look.
[21:37:32] <andypugh> It's not a happy machine at the moment (no hardware connected) but the ini-file line is camview-emc {XID}
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[21:47:58] <psha> how often you get rtai delays? every 5minutes/hour/day?
[21:48:04] <psha> just curious
[21:50:05] <psha> andypugh: sorry, time to sleep
[21:50:07] <psha> bb
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[22:02:03] <KimK> andypugh, tom3p: Wow, I never looked all the way to the bottom of the main page, it's stuffed with tiny links to all kinds of things! There must be 50 or more "spam titles/links" there.
[22:02:04] -!- psha has quit [Quit: leaving]
[22:02:41] <andypugh> Sounds like a common problem caused by out-of-date Joomla
[22:03:17] <KimK> Some security flaw being exploited, then?
[22:05:16] <andypugh> I believe so.
[22:06:54] -!- moopy [moopy!~moopy@82.152.150.86] has joined #emc
[22:07:03] <KimK> OK, well, in that case, glad to hear that Google hasn't gone weaselly.
[22:07:23] <elmo40> it hasn't?
[22:07:34] <elmo40> it put a tracker in Chrome
[22:08:03] <elmo40> people have found extra traffic, it points to a google domain
[22:08:22] <KimK> Ha, well, not in this specific case, at least. Yes, I heard about that, a friend warned me to install Chromium. It's been OK.
[22:09:20] <KimK> I rely mostly on Firefox, though.
[22:15:09] <KimK> "...microsoft access 2007 for cancer..."; "...After that, he took to dijon and also bordeaux, doing the science of the first army. ..."; "...All of these things consider for the technical zipcode newsworthyness to lead textual to all and individual to accident, which is definitely legal home. ..." [Yikes, what a mess.]
[22:18:26] -!- _Wall-E_ [_Wall-E_!~bmp@adsl-ull-97-187.46-151.net24.it] has joined #emc
[22:18:33] <_Wall-E_> ciao
[22:19:08] <KimK> Hi _Wall-E_
[22:19:54] -!- factor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[22:20:00] <_Wall-E_> somone has experience with Arch Linux? quacuno ha esperienza con arch linux ?
[22:21:24] <KimK> Are you having an EMC problem or an Arch Linux problem?
[22:21:36] -!- factor [factor!~factor@74.197.205.204] has joined #emc
[22:23:28] <KimK> We can try to help you here, especially if it's an EMC2 problem. But if it's an Arch Linux problem, they might be more help to you over at #archlinux
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[22:24:15] <KimK> _Wall-E_: What problem are you having?
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[22:27:47] <KimK> Was it something I said?
[22:28:51] -!- _Wall-E_ [_Wall-E_!~bmp@adsl-ull-97-187.46-151.net24.it] has joined #emc
[22:29:09] <_Wall-E_> I have problem to instal emc in arch linux
[22:30:00] <KimK> Ah, interesting, I don't recall anyone asking about that distro here before. How far did you get?
[22:31:12] <_Wall-E_> not understand...
[22:32:22] <KimK> You are trying to install EMC2 in Arch Linux, correct? How much progress did you make? When did the first trouble occur?
[22:33:27] <andypugh> _Wall-E_: Did you find http://code.google.com/p/neo-technical/wiki/emc2arch
[22:34:13] <KimK> Si sta tentando di installare EMC2 in Arch Linux, giusto? Quanti progressi hai fatto? Quando mai il problema si verifica prima?
[22:34:21] <_Wall-E_> problem to install rtai-kernel
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[22:36:56] <_Wall-E_> patching file mm/vmalloc.c ==> ERROR: A failure occurred in build(). Aborting...
[22:38:06] <KimK> Suggestions, anyone?
[22:38:49] -!- _Wall-E_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[22:39:05] <KimK> He must be on a shaky connection
[22:39:37] -!- _Wall-E_ [_Wall-E_!~bmp@adsl-ull-97-187.46-151.net24.it] has joined #emc
[22:39:49] <_Wall-E_> bad connections today
[22:40:02] <KimK> Yes, welcome back
[22:41:28] <andypugh> _Wall-E_: Neo-technical's instructions are quite detailed, are you following those?
[22:41:36] <_Wall-E_> yes
[22:41:51] <_Wall-E_> but problem when install rtai-kernel
[22:42:58] <KimK> _Wall-E_: Which of neo-technical
[22:43:02] <KimK> Oops
[22:43:14] <KimK> _Wall-E_: Which of neo-technical's step numbers are you failing on?
[22:43:57] <_Wall-E_> 8.a
[22:46:10] <KimK> neo-technical seems to have a strong preference for grub/grub2 vs. lilo. Which are you running, grub or lilo?
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[22:46:24] <_Wall-E_> grub
[22:46:41] <KimK> OK
[22:46:55] <_Wall-E_> one question
[22:47:03] <_Wall-E_> (I'm noob)
[22:47:11] <KimK> No problem
[22:47:17] <_Wall-E_> my machines is a intel i3
[22:47:25] <_Wall-E_> 64 bit
[22:47:49] <_Wall-E_> not amd 64 and not intel 32
[22:48:23] <_Wall-E_> emc2 working whit intel i3
[22:48:24] <_Wall-E_> ?
[22:49:20] <KimK> I'll pass to Andy on that one, can you run a 32-bit kernel if the rest of the OS is 64-bit?
[22:49:57] <KimK> (I presume you installed a 64-bit Arch?)
[22:50:02] <_Wall-E_> yes
[22:50:16] <_Wall-E_> arch 64 bit
[22:52:13] <SWPadnos> amd64 is the kernel you would use for Intel 64 bit CPUs as well. AMD developed the instruction set and Intel licensed it from them
[22:53:09] <KimK> SWPadnos: Do we have an AMD64 RTAI kernel?
[22:53:29] <_Wall-E_> no
[22:53:31] <_Wall-E_> i32
[22:53:35] <andypugh> I think he would be building one.
[22:53:40] <KimK> Ah, OK
[22:53:43] <JT-Shop> SWPadnos: I have two of the super setups now except here I didn't use the SSD just my regular hard drive
[22:53:56] <JT-Shop> I really like them
[22:56:33] <KimK> SWPadnos: Any advice about _Wall-E_'s ...mm/vmalloc.c error problem?
[22:56:41] <SWPadnos> nope :)
[22:57:24] <_Wall-E_> you tink I need to use amd 64 kernel ?
[22:58:04] <andypugh> I think that using a 64 bit kernel would actually make things harder, now I have thought about it.
[22:58:30] <KimK> andypugh: Please tell us more
[22:59:25] <andypugh> Don't go looking at me as any sort of expert. I managed to follow NeoTechnical's instructions once to make a working kernel, and that is it.
[23:00:06] <andypugh> But the normal EMC2 installation is a 32 bit kernel. The further you go from that, the harder it gets, and the more on your own you are.
[23:00:44] <elmo40> it is far from optimized, but it does work very well
[23:01:14] <Tom_itx> i woke up today thinking hmmmm. the sky sure looks funny today. it was a yellowish orange. after watching the 5oclock news i found out it was due to the fires in Arizona
[23:01:28] <andypugh> But if his current OS is built for a 64 bit kernel, I think he might have to build a 64 bit RTAI one, or the whole OS might not run.
[23:02:26] <andypugh> Looks like I need to steal a vernier protractor off my dad while he doesn't realise what they are worth. I certainly won't be buying one.
[23:02:47] <KimK> andypugh: Re: difficulty, Just as a point of comparison, how about 64-bit Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, otherwise identical to EMC2's stock version except for the 64-bit aspect, has anyone tried that, and how hard was it, and how did it treat them?
[23:05:22] <_Wall-E_> hey
[23:05:29] <_Wall-E_> step 6a
[23:05:30] <_Wall-E_> sudo make clean && sudo make && sudo make modules_install
[23:05:46] <_Wall-E_> gcc: error: elf_x86_64: No such file or directory
[23:05:47] <_Wall-E_> make[2]: *** [arch/x86/vdso/vdso.so.dbg] Error 1
[23:05:47] <_Wall-E_> make[1]: *** [arch/x86/vdso] Error 2
[23:05:47] <_Wall-E_> make: *** [arch/x86] Error 2
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[23:09:58] * KimK needs a sandwich, back in a little bit
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[23:16:57] * JT-Shop wonders why so many people spend so much time trying to run EMC on weird distros
[23:20:44] <_Wall-E_> why if I want use emc2 need use it on ubuntu?! I want use another distro!
[23:22:19] <andypugh> I think most of us realise that the EMC2 machine will only really be used for EMC2, so it doesn't matter what OS it runs.
[23:23:03] <andypugh> The PC is pretty much the cheapest part of the system.
[23:23:25] <Jymmm> Eh, I like that comes with the OS as a whole. I'd have prefered debian, but eh.
[23:23:51] <archivist_emc> ubuntu is debian in a skin
[23:24:05] <Jymmm> It's far more than just a skin
[23:24:54] <andypugh> A mate of mine used to have the domain debiantarts.com, but I think it lapsed unused.
[23:37:40] <JT-Shop> it must be a geek thing I guess
[23:38:39] <Tom_itx> are there levels of geek?
[23:38:54] <Tom_itx> are they earned?
[23:38:55] <JT-Shop> I would imagine there is
[23:38:58] <Tom_itx> are they awarded?
[23:39:08] <JT-Shop> more like learned
[23:39:49] * JT-Shop wonders how long it will take the wife to discover her new bike in the garage with all this crap in here
[23:39:53] <_Wall-E_> good nicht, thanks to all
[23:40:01] <JT-Shop> good luck
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[23:40:32] <KimK> I was too slow earlier too, he's fast, lol
[23:40:48] <JT-Shop> yea he must have a bail key like SWPadnos heh key
[23:41:14] <KimK> Ha, must be
[23:43:27] <Tom_itx> ok, what was that little tabletop mill some were trying to get their paws on here?
[23:43:36] <Tom_itx> taig was it?
[23:44:25] <JT-Shop> I must have missed that
[23:44:33] <KimK> There is a Taig, I don't know if that's what was being discussed earlier
[23:44:39] <Tom_itx> it was backordered or recalled or something
[23:44:52] <Tom_itx> not available
[23:44:56] <Tom_itx> but apparently now is
[23:49:20] <andypugh> robin_sz: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hardinge-HLV-H-Lathe-/230638882253
[23:50:12] <JT-Shop> all manual lathe?
[23:51:29] <andypugh> (ponder) Why do American lathes always have the feed handle in the optimum place for hot swarf to fall on your hand? Compare to http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Metal-Turning-Lathe-3-phase-Colchester-Student-/250844839256
[23:51:48] <andypugh> Robin was saying last night that the HLV was his favourite lathe.
[23:52:54] <Tom_itx> i typically use my left hand on the wheel
[23:53:17] <Tom_itx> that one looks awkward for that but maybe a better layout
[23:53:35] <andypugh> Aye, you use your hands the other way round on a british lathe
[23:53:52] <Tom_itx> bass akwards
[23:54:04] <theorbtwo> So it matches british cars?
[23:54:06] <JT-Shop> they do drive on the wrong side of the street too
[23:54:13] <Tom_itx> explains alot
[23:54:59] <Tom_itx> real lathes don't have knobs
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[23:57:34] <JT-Shop> I should quit looking on flea bay http://cgi.ebay.com/Covel-17H-Tool-Room-Surface-Grinder-/140510324544?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b7116740
[23:58:13] <Tom_itx> looks like a nice size
[23:58:19] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:58:29] <Tom_itx> i think you need it
[23:58:32] <JT-Shop> nice price too
[23:58:38] <JT-Shop> LOL
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[23:59:28] <Tom_itx> looks like a magnetic table