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[00:04:03] <nicko> ello ello
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[00:08:47] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, he's up for re'election
[00:09:10] <Jymmm> ah
[00:10:01] <Tom_itx> same holds true about bringing the troops home and releasing the oil reserves
[00:10:18] <Tom_itx> nice jesture though
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[02:38:40] <nicko> electrical/electronic question anyone ?
[02:40:37] <elmo40> give it a shot :)
[02:41:10] <nicko> Ok, so I have a 12v switchmode power supply (SMPS) - sweet
[02:41:44] <nicko> I have a 160v toridial transformer power supply also (I live in 230v town)
[02:42:07] <nicko> it has a small 7812 12v DC regulator tapped off it
[02:42:17] <nicko> so I have two 12v power supplies now
[02:42:53] <nicko> I check continuity between the two -ve outouts of these two 12v supplies
[02:42:56] <nicko> BEEP!
[02:43:42] <nicko> they both have continutiy with earth
[02:43:45] <nicko> beep beep!
[02:43:57] <nicko> I check the DC voltage between them ...
[02:44:07] <nicko> I should get: 0v
[02:44:15] <nicko> I get -84v
[02:44:27] <nicko> 84v depending on which way you look at it I guess
[02:45:14] <nicko> testing the DV voltage between every bit of shield and casing and earth in the complete system I have here (much gear) - I either get 0v or a number close to 80v potential
[02:45:29] <nicko> Question>> 80v ????
[02:45:59] <elmo40> add some lights in series, drop it down to 12 ;)
[02:46:24] <nicko> ...
[02:46:38] <elmo40> ya, not an answer. silly remark, sorry
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[02:46:48] <nicko> ;)
[02:47:00] <elmo40> as for the 80V, that seems to be the centre tap.
[02:47:09] <nicko> ah yes
[02:47:14] <nicko> should have noticed that
[02:47:33] <elmo40> well, one side to the centre. if you find the other you should get 160
[02:47:57] <nicko> so the 12v regulators ground pin is going to the centre ...
[02:47:58] <nicko> ahhh
[02:48:00] <nicko> hmmm
[02:48:43] <nicko> but why am I getting continuity between it and earth
[02:49:04] <nicko> and still getting 160v that is common with ground *also*
[02:49:36] <nicko> (and not 80 either way)
[02:50:34] <nicko> actually no
[02:50:54] <nicko> wow - the 160 is split either way around the earth
[02:51:01] <nicko> hmmm
[02:51:35] <nicko> so I should take care not to common the high voltage supply and the logic supply
[02:51:43] <nicko> zing ?!
[02:53:55] <Tom_itx> floating ground
[02:54:06] <Tom_itx> not chassis ground
[02:56:36] <nicko> The 160v power supply is feeding three drives
[02:56:42] <nicko> 3x 160v DC
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[02:56:54] <nicko> the drives also need 12v for the logic side
[02:57:13] <nicko> and of course they need to interface with EMC
[02:57:55] <nicko> the power supplies outputs give the right potentials for the input DC power and the logic supply
[02:58:05] <nicko> they live in thier own little world
[02:58:34] <frankenstein> does any one here use makeyourbot?
[02:58:41] <frankenstein> or familiar with it?
[02:59:11] <nicko> But the PC/Mesa gear is going to be 80v off once I connect it huh ??
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[03:17:44] <pcw_home> nicko: PCs are always grounded to frame ground so be careful...
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[03:44:20] <nicko> Hi Peter
[03:44:39] <nicko> I have Granite devices VSD drives here at the moment
[03:45:16] <nicko> the are supplied by a 160v transformer which has a little 7812 regulator tapped on
[03:46:35] <nicko> The 12v -ve terminal from the 7812 and the -ve output of another SMPS give me 80v difference
[03:47:09] <nicko> so it would seem that the logic supply for the VSD drives comes from the centre of the transformer
[03:47:27] <nicko> I should avoid it and use 12v from elsewhere huh ?
[03:48:21] <nicko> the 160v from the transformer is 'floating' if I understand it - and its -ve side can be connected to ground
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[04:15:26] <pcw_home> I would guess that the VSD drives are isolated. I would not use any lov volatage power thats common to the 160V power supply
[04:18:50] <nicko> from the manual: "VSD-E runs on unregulated or regulated isolated power supply which means that there is no galvanic or conductive connection between the AC mains and DC bus"
[04:19:28] <nicko> so the high voltage power input I just leaving floating ?
[04:19:36] <nicko> I dont have to connect it to earth ?
[04:20:53] <nicko> oops - no, I do have to connect it - manual says so
[04:21:17] <nicko> When I do I see the 12v supply is now correct relative to earth
[04:27:45] <nicko> the supply from a transformer I can chose what direction I want to be in reference the ground I connect to huh
[04:28:07] <nicko> I haven't played electrics for a while ...
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[06:02:33] <aitalmac> Hello, i need some help with homing problems, anyone available?
[06:15:32] <aitalmac> I need use my minimum limit sensor also as home sensor
[06:16:01] <aitalmac> but when i touch the limit the machine axis give a joint 0 or joint 2 limit alarm
[06:17:55] <aitalmac> SO i can't home the machine and move it after
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[10:11:56] <jthornton> aitalmac: every one is asleep :)
[10:13:25] <Gensor> not everyone
[10:13:53] <jthornton> well I'm not any more :)
[10:14:10] <jthornton> I'm just testing to see if aitalmac is still wondering about homing
[10:15:26] <Gensor> whats the going rate for used panasonic drivers/servos these days?
[10:16:15] <jthornton> I've not shopped for any used ones
[10:16:28] <jthornton> I always get new ones
[10:17:11] <jthornton> I just installed two yesterday on a couple of pallet lift and rotates we make
[10:17:47] <Gensor> I assumed you had access to hand-me-downs
[10:18:45] <jthornton> no, usually we are making new equipment or retrofitting some old equipment with new drives
[10:19:41] <jthornton> I do have a pair of rather large DC servos with resolver feed back from a conversion... don't know what I might do with them
[10:35:28] <ktchk> Hi kimk
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[13:35:37] <ktchk> Hi kimk
[13:36:47] <jthornton> seems to be an echo in here
[13:37:20] <Tom_itx> morning
[13:38:11] <jthornton> morning
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[14:19:31] <DustyDingo> hm, that works fine for me now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL4g9MmJMis
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[15:05:05] <KimK> ktchk: Hi, how are you?
[15:10:55] <KimK> ktchk: I'll be AFK for awhile, will try again in an hour or so.
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[16:18:37] <ktchk> Hi Kimk
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[17:59:11] <factor> what are good amterial mounts
[17:59:21] <factor> trying to figure out a way to best do that.
[17:59:38] <factor> mount or clamp
[18:05:56] <Tom_itx> depends on the material and how you need it clamped
[18:08:20] <factor> Tom_itx, correct.was wondering if emc had a databse of parts
[18:08:37] <factor> it will be square ceramic and under water.
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[18:13:01] <factor> Was thinking about a lever that streched out
[18:13:26] <factor> pressing up against both sides of the wall and part.
[18:13:35] <factor> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8805552@N06/5869761511/sizes/l/in/photostream/
[18:13:43] <factor> that is the design I am working on so far.
[18:15:49] <factor> Will mostly be fore shallow 2d cuts. but want to move up to 3d cuts with a larger tub area, and the water level will drop as the part gets made from top down.
[18:16:16] <factor> but the base bounding points will still hold true then and now
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[23:00:59] <robin_sz> `/me returns from the great "lets fix the Haas" expedition
[23:11:18] <KimK> robin_sz: Fixing a Haas, tell us about it?
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[23:20:13] <robin_sz> KimK, bought at a barrgain price as a non worker
[23:20:58] <KimK> robin_sz: Where was it and where did you have to move it to? And how did you move it?
[23:20:58] <robin_sz> were told it had an axis over current fault, would not reference, cuold be the x axis motor dead, probably the drive card as well
[23:21:22] <robin_sz> moving it is easy, its only a VF1, 3500kg
[23:21:33] <KimK> Oh, wait, you went there to fix it though?
[23:21:46] <robin_sz> no bought it, moved it, installed it, fixed it
[23:22:11] <robin_sz> if you buy a haas mill, bear in mind they cannot be craned
[23:22:21] <robin_sz> you have to forklift them from the side
[23:22:31] <KimK> Oh, fixed, excellent. Original Haas control?
[23:22:33] <robin_sz> so 5tonne forklift with 8' forks
[23:22:36] <robin_sz> yes
[23:22:57] <robin_sz> turned out the over current was the motor hitting the endstop when referencing
[23:23:05] <robin_sz> and why was it hitting the endstop?
[23:23:23] <robin_sz> because the bracket with the homing/limit switch had got bent :)
[23:23:33] <robin_sz> one quick unbend, working machine
[23:24:08] <KimK> Why no cranes, no places to attach or too fragile to pick up without supporting underneath?
[23:24:18] <robin_sz> no sling points
[23:24:24] <robin_sz> and its fully enclosed
[23:24:30] <KimK> OK. Great fix, Gongrats!
[23:25:16] <robin_sz> we hired a hiab which came with a 5t forklift on, unloaded the forklift, used the forklift to load the machine on, craned the forklift back on .. etc
[23:25:17] <KimK> Oops. s/Gongrats!/Congrats!/
[23:25:56] <KimK> hiab?
[23:26:10] <robin_sz> telescopic truck mounted crane
[23:26:33] <robin_sz> 50 tonne-metre
[23:26:48] <KimK> OK. Are you in the UK?
[23:26:51] <robin_sz> yep
[23:26:55] <robin_sz> isnt everyone?
[23:27:21] <robin_sz> hmm, wait let me ask you
[23:27:25] <robin_sz> do you use inches?
[23:27:54] <KimK> Ha, that's probably why I haven't heard hiab, I'll look it up later and add to my list of Britishisms: Lorry, Lift, etc., etc.,
[23:28:39] <KimK> Yes, indeed, although I use them in decimal format, thank you very much.
[23:28:40] <robin_sz> (most big hiabs arent made by hiab, but the name sort of sticks, like hoover for floor cleaners)
[23:28:50] <robin_sz> Ah, then I can guess where you are
[23:28:54] <robin_sz> Liberia right?
[23:29:14] <KimK> Oh, yes, another Britishism: "I Hoovered that up."
[23:29:30] <robin_sz> no .. wait theres is another place that uses inches, damn, where is it, I'll remember in a minute
[23:30:08] <KimK> Haha, yes, hard to remember. But I can work in mm too.
[23:30:24] <robin_sz> handy
[23:30:27] <KimK> We go back and forth here.
[23:30:38] <KimK> Whatever the customer wants.
[23:31:25] <robin_sz> mmmmm
[23:31:25] <KimK> That was a great fix. I hope you got a good bargain on it too. Enjoy!
[23:31:26] <robin_sz> anyway
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[23:32:37] <robin_sz> the guy we use only has Fassi cranes, a joy to work with
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[23:33:54] <KimK> I'll see if I can find some images. If the original control ever dies, would you go EMC2?
[23:33:55] <robin_sz> anyway, there you go, a nice Haas for very few $$$ :)
[23:34:04] <robin_sz> no, not on that machine
[23:34:28] <robin_sz> we,ve run other machines, eg bridgeports and router on emc
[23:34:53] <robin_sz> but, with a Haas control, that machine can be sold
[23:35:00] <robin_sz> one day, maybe
[23:35:10] <robin_sz> with EMC, it would be a hooby project
[23:35:15] <robin_sz> *hobby
[23:35:35] <robin_sz> EMC is great, especially for breathing life into old solid gear
[23:35:53] <robin_sz> but its not up to the same spec as the Haas stuff yet in some ways
[23:36:42] <robin_sz> I only breifly looked through the Haas control, but already I can see lots of neat features
[23:38:25] <KimK> EMC2 is a hobby machine? I should show you Stuart's shop. Take a look at this Viper gantry mill here:
http://www.mpm1.com/viper.html and here:
http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/viper-BCbridge/pictures/S1030246.JPG
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[23:39:53] <KimK> This machine has a perfectly good Fanuc 18M 5-axis on it now, all working fine. Stuart wants to pull it and put on EMC2. He's waiting only for the connectors and info so that it will only take a week to be down.
[23:40:32] <KimK> Something to think about.
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[23:42:00] <robin_sz> well, whateber floats his boat. Just hope he can manage it without moddifying the wiring so he can put the original control back on when it comes time to sell it on.
[23:44:27] <KimK> And give up the 5-axis error correction? Well, whatever pleases the prospective buyer, I guess. Just thought I'd mention it.
[23:44:58] <KimK> What will you be making on your new Haas?
[23:46:04] <Valen> why would you say emc is only for hoby?
[23:46:11] <Valen> what does haas do that emc doesnt?
[23:46:39] <robin_sz> whatever, if he's the sop owner, operator and its his mill greta choice .. but unsaleable with it on I would think, Theres a whole bunch of peopel can service a Fanuc control, I don;t know many service engineers (any?) who could fix EMC, so in a factory situation where the owner doenst have time to get his hands dirty, its a non starter
[23:47:20] <robin_sz> Valen, EMC does many things the haas control wont do, multi-axis high speed look ahead contouring for example
[23:47:52] <Valen> whats to break?
[23:47:59] <robin_sz> but where can I send my operator to get trained?
[23:48:20] <Valen> http://www.linuxcnc.org/
[23:48:25] <robin_sz> can i put a job advert out for haas operator?
[23:48:26] <robin_sz> yes
[23:48:31] <robin_sz> oh please ...
[23:49:02] <robin_sz> anyway, I have my emc powered router and its great
[23:49:21] <Valen> i hope you only use windows for your webservers ;-P
[23:50:14] <robin_sz> dood, grow up
[23:50:29] <KimK> So, what will you be making on your new Haas?
[23:50:50] <robin_sz> KimK, mainly front panels for power amplifiers
[23:51:11] <robin_sz> want to do some neat fancy aluminium front panels
[23:51:32] <Valen> so unless you can spend thousands and thousands of dollars on parts and have certification from somebody whose only interest is taking your money its a toy
[23:51:39] <KimK> OK, excellent. Sound amplifiers or some other kind of amplifier?
[23:51:49] <robin_sz> Valen, I take it you are new to EMC?
[23:51:50] <Valen> mesa make good hardware, and support their stuff
[23:51:58] <Valen> I have been using it for several years
[23:52:08] <Valen> I am also a linux IT tech
[23:52:29] <robin_sz> Valen, how many years you been a linux sysadmin?
[23:52:39] <Valen> 10*
[23:52:41] <Valen> 10+
[23:53:06] <MuPie> how much does a haas with bent limit bracket cost???
[23:53:12] <robin_sz> professionally?
[23:53:30] <robin_sz> MuPie, way less than one without :)
[23:53:39] <MuPie> ballpark?
[23:53:47] <Valen> and as yet, saying "we can do it with microsoft and VMware for $150,000, or linux for $20,000" I haven't had a customer choose the windows option
[23:53:52] <Valen> yes, its my day job
[23:53:59] <robin_sz> valen for how long?
[23:54:10] <Valen> 10+ years
[23:54:19] <MuPie> I just wonder how much I should pay for a broken mill???
[23:54:23] <Valen> I got my first pay cheque for it in 2000
[23:54:24] <robin_sz> almost as many as me, another 15 and you will be there
[23:54:49] <robin_sz> Valen, and you see the router in the background of the linuxcnc.org homepage?
[23:55:29] <Valen> i can see a ballscrew ;-P
[23:55:42] <robin_sz> MuPie, $5000. with 50 toolholders and a 4th axis
[23:56:15] <robin_sz> yeah that will be mine
[23:56:17] <MuPie> I think I am shopping at the wrong places
[23:56:45] <robin_sz> MuPie, it was a fantastic deal, and for it to only be a bent bracket was amazing
[23:56:52] <MuPie> stuff on ebay always goes too expensive and it normally screwed
[23:57:00] <robin_sz> this was on ebay
[23:57:38] <MuPie> I still have not got my last turkey fixed
[23:58:27] <MuPie> I got a tos fnk from ebay for £400 and the y ball screw was fubar
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[23:58:39] <MuPie> and it had no controls
[23:59:14] <robin_sz> Valen, my point is, do not assume you know more about linux or emc, simply because you have not seen me around. Do not assume you know more about running cnc equipment in an industrial situation either, as I have owned and managed several engineering business and I knwo what works, what doesnt and what the priorities are. being able to call in a service tech 24/7 is an important point in a production situation for example.
[23:59:44] <robin_sz> MuPie, that is not too bad though, ballscrews are easy to come by
