#emc | Logs for 2011-06-16

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[00:11:37] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: it is 14" long, I'll get a weight in the morning
[00:11:51] <JT-Shop> andypugh: can'
[00:11:57] <JT-Shop> can't you just make some
[00:12:46] <andypugh> I have thought about it, but I would probably need to make a jig to roll them. They spring open.
[00:13:20] <JT-Shop> yea, you would have to roll it undersized
[00:13:56] <JT-Shop> I've done wire springs before on the lathe
[00:14:11] <andypugh> No, I mean that they extend under spring tension. It isn't as simple as buying a roll of shim.
[00:14:36] <JT-Shop> flat spring stock
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[00:15:07] <andypugh> I am not sure that is any easier to find.
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[00:18:49] <JT-Shop> http://www.spiroflex.com/pdfs/Ld_scr_grds_A_B_eng.pdf
[00:21:33] <andypugh> Aye, that's the sort of thing.
[00:22:03] <andypugh> Lots of people make them, but how do I buy one?
[00:23:46] <andypugh> http://www.buttkereit.co.uk/telescopic.htm and http://kunden.mdwebflex.de/hema/index.php?id=231&L=3
[00:24:02] <andypugh> My problem is finding them retail.
[00:26:38] <andypugh> Maybe I will just use some sort of curtain.
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[01:10:10] <Tom_itx> how to do a polar array in solidworks?
[01:18:01] <tom3p> http://help.solidworks.com/2010/English/SolidWorks/sld2demu/sld2demu/ARRAY.htm
[01:18:53] <Tom_itx> yeah i just checked the help
[01:18:55] <Tom_itx> thanks
[01:20:13] <Tom_itx> do you know what toolbar it's on?
[01:20:52] <tom3p> uh, i dont even have SW :)
[01:21:07] <Tom_itx> my problem is i don't use it that often
[01:22:11] <tom3p> same here sorta, i use Acad Mechanical Desktop 5 for similar, and its a dinosaur ( an unloved unsupported dinosaur )
[01:22:25] <Tom_itx> smartcam
[01:22:28] <Tom_itx> mostly
[01:22:57] <tom3p> maybe next trip to PanThip Plaza ;)
[01:24:37] <Tom_itx> jt would know but he goes to bed before the chickens
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[01:33:56] <elmo401> Tom_itx: how is SmartCAM?
[01:34:03] <elmo401> my new company uses GibbsCAM
[01:34:07] <elmo401> my current one, MasterCAM
[01:37:43] <Tom_itx> my smartcam is very old
[01:37:51] <Tom_itx> but they have revived it
[01:38:04] <Tom_itx> it was quite similar to mastercam only i think better
[01:38:17] <Tom_itx> never heard of gibbscam
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[02:16:19] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: http://www.compusa.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2559758&csid=_25
[02:17:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Fan controller that reports back to mobo
[02:19:02] <Tom_itx> you need more than that though don't you?
[02:19:45] <Tom_itx> is compusa tiger direct now?
[02:20:05] <Tom_itx> our compusa left town
[02:25:05] <ds3> any chance someone here has a recommendation on a way of electrically controlling an air flow?
[02:25:30] <Tom_itx> need more details
[02:25:50] <Tom_itx> hvac have electric baffles
[02:26:23] <ds3> donno enough about this to provide details
[02:26:42] <Tom_itx> air flow for what?
[02:27:18] <ds3> air flow to enable or disable a dispenser... right now it is compressor feeding a canister with the liquid and a draw tube that is below the surface of the liquid
[02:27:38] <ds3> I want to be able to electrically enable/disable it besides a big giant relay on the compressor
[02:28:02] <Tom_itx> well get a solonoid valve
[02:28:05] <ds3> tubing is friction fit vinyl tube like the stuff on fishtanks
[02:28:38] <ds3> I thought of that much but they don't seem to be on/off things... some parts refers to manifolds, etc
[02:30:29] <tom3p> solenoid is an on off thing. solenoid coils move plungers that cut off or allow flow, and several can be attached to an flow source ( thats the manifold )
[02:31:09] <Tom_itx> http://valvesandinstruments.com/solenoid/asco-2-way-solenoid-valve-3-8-in-npt-120-60vac-normally-closed.html
[02:31:11] <ds3> okay, but shouldn't it be a simple in and out ports?
[02:31:17] <tom3p> look up some of the terminology from a mfctr, maybe Festo or Parker Hannefin
[02:32:05] <tom3p> a manifold is likean outlet strip, solenoids plug into it, each solenoid controls one output ( simpified )
[02:32:31] <ds3> but why is it required for some of them?
[02:33:03] <jdhNC> it's easier and cheaper that way (for lots of pneumatic lines)
[02:33:09] <tom3p> for the kind that go onto a manifold its rqd, but you can get individual stand alone units too
[02:33:17] <jdhNC> asco red hat
[02:33:21] <tom3p> yep
[02:33:21] <jdhNC> humphries
[02:34:41] <ds3> I see.
[02:36:30] <ds3> what's the PSI ratings mean on the specs? is that the max pressure on any orifice?
[02:36:44] <jdhNC> usually
[02:37:02] <jdhNC> for a 2way it's simple
[02:37:07] <ds3> what happens if that is exceeded?
[02:37:30] <jdhNC> something between nothing-leaks-blowsup
[02:37:52] <ds3> so not a good idea to exceed it.
[02:37:57] <jdhNC> what pressure are you dealing with?
[02:38:27] <jdhNC> I can't think of any normal pneumatics I've seen that were > 120psi
[02:38:31] <ds3> up to 80psi... other people are using that much but it depends on how viscous it is
[02:38:54] <ds3> I am seeing 25-45psi being common numbers, thought they might be recommended values
[02:39:14] <jdhNC> for your whateveritis, or for solenoid valves?
[02:39:28] <ds3> for the solenoid valves I have found
[02:39:52] <ds3> my compressor is too whimpy to put out more then 100psi anyways
[02:39:56] <jdhNC> never seen any rated that low
[02:40:14] <ds3> let me find an example
[02:45:36] <ds3> url not pasteable :(
[02:45:43] <jdhNC> tinyurl
[02:46:03] <ds3> easier to describe how to get there - www.parker.com
[02:46:14] <ds3> search for P/N - 991-000808-001
[02:46:24] <ds3> these were in a surplus bundle
[02:46:44] <ds3> bundle/pile
[02:47:12] <tom3p> haha you had to pick a proportional valve...
[02:47:17] <ds3> huh?
[02:47:19] <tom3p> it AINT on off
[02:47:26] <jdhNC> that's not what you want, it's a flwo control vavle
[02:47:28] <tom3p> its more & less
[02:47:39] <ds3> DOH
[02:47:41] <jdhNC> and generally pretty pricey
[02:47:56] <ds3> surplus place wants $2.50 for them...seems cheap to toy around with
[02:48:03] <jdhNC> and it's tiny
[02:48:06] <tom3p> you can use it as on off tho, just give it lots or no control voltage to coil
[02:48:26] <tom3p> it'll swing min to max
[02:48:29] <jdhNC> those are 3-ways
[02:48:34] <ds3> but that pressure rating seems puny
[02:49:20] <jdhNC> those are made to be soldered on to PC boards
[02:49:36] <ds3> PCBs are what I am familiar with
[02:49:47] <ds3> air control I am not.
[02:50:25] <ds3> but if you said that, that means there are ones that are not intended to be PCB mounted?
[02:50:47] <jdhNC> almost all of them are not made to be PCB mounted
[02:51:23] <ds3> DOH, I just managed to pick a winner :(
[02:51:31] <jdhNC> for a single, I'd get a redcap
[02:52:17] <jdhNC> http://cgi.ebay.com/270764148345
[02:53:44] <jdhNC> redhttp://cgi.ebay.com/290530101009
[02:56:21] <ds3> that looks reasonable... so I apply power and it either shuts off or turns on the air?
[02:56:34] <jdhNC> yeah, you can usually get NO or NC
[02:57:03] <ds3> can these things be powered indefinitely or is there a duty cycle spec I need to find?
[02:57:10] <tom3p> you wanted liquid control, i ownt suggest pcb mounted solenoid valves. and this may help understand how to use a 3way for on off ( just exhaust back into liquid reservoir ) http://flo-products.com/floprod/images/PreDyne_Valve_Types.jpeg
[02:57:22] <jdhNC> some have duty cycles, most are 100%
[02:57:27] <tom3p> ownt/wont
[02:57:56] <ds3> okay, this makes more sense
[02:58:08] <ds3> tom3p: liquid eventually but it is air pushingthe liquid
[03:02:43] <tom3p> well the seals are usually made for liquid or gas, and theres many kinds of seals for different media.
[03:02:44] <tom3p> pneumatics & hydraulics are really different animals, tho people get away with lots of stuff engineers say !@*(!# to.
[03:03:41] <tom3p> you can put 'air over' a liquid to move it up a pipe, close the system so air pressure pushes the liquid up an exhausting pipe
[03:04:50] <ds3> yep, that's the plan
[03:05:03] <tom3p> its actually cool, you can use N lbs of air to raise n lbs of liquid that way
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[06:23:46] <factor> http://bit.ly/i0XesB In case anyone wanted to program Microchip PIC processors under linux or mac they have a java IDE beta out
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[13:20:59] <skunkworks_> JT-Shop: did you get a chance to get a weight?
[13:34:16] <JT-Shop> skunkworks_: not yet, I'm going to town in a bit and I'll weight it at the other shop where we have a good scale
[13:34:27] <JT-Shop> or I can use my bathroom scale???
[13:35:10] <JT-Shop> been splitting firewood while it is < 80
[13:35:11] <JT-Shop> f
[13:41:13] <skunkworks_> heh
[13:41:33] <skunkworks_> bathroom scale would be fine!
[13:44:21] <skunkworks_> how hot is it supposed do get today?
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[14:01:03] <JT-Shop> bathroom scale says 33 lbs not too bad today only 92F
[14:01:21] * JT-Shop heads to town
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[14:30:40] <moopy> hiya, anyone know anything about using multiple tool heads simultaneously????
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[14:38:31] <JT-Shop> skunkworks_: bathroom scale was very accurate it seems and 33lbs is a good number
[14:39:08] <JT-Shop> Scott says USPS is more cost effective than UPS when you get the shipping label online
[14:39:31] <JT-Shop> so use either one, e mail it to me and I'll drop it off.
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[16:07:36] * Jymmm waves!
[16:08:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: and free boxes too
[16:08:23] <willburrrr2003> started remaking my optical encoder lastnight, the part went great...good cutting speeds for the facing, boring, and turning...parting went ok, not great but do-able...right up to the point where it cut the part off too soon :( after examination, turns out emc was set up right, tool was loaded right, but the tip of my tool had a slight angle instead of bein parallel to the work... Learned a valuable lesson about tooling, and
[16:09:57] <archivist_emc> you got cut off
[16:10:11] <archivist_emc> Learned a valuable lesson about tooling, and
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[16:10:54] <L33TG33KG34R> well hallo thar...
[16:11:35] <willburrrr2003> had fun so the time was not wasted. Hopefully I will have the encoder with index signal made and working by this weekend. I will be ordering speed controller card, so that EMC can properly control the indle...then happy days :D CSS, FPR and better cutting operations all round !
[16:12:01] <willburrrr2003> *that was the restof what I typed that got cut off
[16:14:57] <jdhNC> you could make me one while you are at it.
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[16:22:27] <willburrrr2003> jdhNC: is your lathe a mni-lathe as well?
[16:24:11] <jdhNC> I have a 7x, but I just got an old 9x20
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[16:28:42] <jdhNC> $1100 bridgeport near here... too bad I have no room.
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[16:31:20] <archivist_emc> build a shed
[16:31:44] <syyl> put it in front of your house
[16:31:50] <syyl> nice decoration in the garden ;)
[16:32:07] <archivist_emc> put it in the kitchen
[16:33:07] <jdhNC> I could use a large shed, with an A/C.
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[16:33:30] <syyl> kitchen is the perfect place
[16:33:51] <jdhNC> I'm pretty sure my kitchen floor wouldn't support that.
[16:34:10] <syyl> instant-go-to-the-basement :D
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[16:34:56] <archivist_emc> I have concrete floor in the kitchen :) and a small lathe :)
[16:35:26] <syyl> friend of mine has his gantry cnc mill in the kitchen
[16:35:57] <syyl> no, not married :D
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[16:39:32] <willburrrr2003> jdhNC: If you give me dimensions, I would happily make you one :)
[16:41:31] <jdhNC> cool :) I'm a long way from needing one though.
[16:43:11] <willburrrr2003> understand that jdhNC, been there myself;) Jut let me know when you are ready for one :)
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[16:56:26] <L33TG33KG34R> so I have a solidworks question.
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[16:57:16] <L33TG33KG34R> http://www.leetgeekgear.ca/IMAGES/GDADAHRS/EDF%20thrust%20Pitot-Static%20Tube.png I can't use thicken on the surfaces for the nozzle, what else can I use to convert the surface to a solid? what you see is the inner wall of a pitot-static tube
[16:58:49] <IchGuckLive> solidege ?
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[17:00:01] <IchGuckLive> you can deselect the lower eges
[17:00:20] <IchGuckLive> then after thicken use Fill Radius
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[17:07:07] <archivist_emc> IchGuckLive, just edit the sketch the part is extruded from
[17:08:15] <IchGuckLive> there are more then one ways
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[17:09:38] <L33TG33KG34R> I am totally lost.
[17:09:54] <L33TG33KG34R> k http://www.leetgeekgear.ca/IMAGES/GDADAHRS/EDF%20thrust%20Pitot-Static%20Tube.png is the inside wall (hilighted)
[17:10:19] <L33TG33KG34R> I want to add an outer wall. could I loft it in like I did the inner wall?
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[17:26:36] <L33TG33KG34R> k so http://www.leetgeekgear.ca/IMAGES/GDADAHRS/EDF%20thrust%20Pitot-Static%20Tube.png I have lofted the tip yet to make the explanation easier. what you see is the outer wall (opaque surface) and the inner wall (some what translucent). how do I join the 2 to make a solid wall? the only reason I ask this is I want to get this 3d printed from ponoko
[17:26:49] <L33TG33KG34R> haven't*
[17:46:53] <skunkworks__> L33TG33KG34R: I don't really know if there are solidworks experts on here.
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[17:48:04] <L33TG33KG34R> oh, worth a try
[17:48:16] <L33TG33KG34R> thnkx anyways
[17:48:16] <IchGuckLive> there is a cam channe l
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[18:20:14] <L33TG33KG34R> wow... "Your design is too big" uh, its about 3 inches tall and 1" at the widest and 3" long. how is that too big?
[18:20:26] <L33TG33KG34R> woops, wrong channel
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[18:29:16] <factor> heh
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[19:16:04] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,31/id,10587/lang,english/#10587
[19:17:24] <Tom_itx> seems uncertain
[19:18:37] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i started a layout for my pendant
[19:18:46] <JT-Shop> cool
[19:19:02] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant3.jpg
[19:19:43] <JT-Shop> neat!
[19:19:57] <JT-Shop> what are the triangles?
[19:19:59] <Tom_itx> not sure about the button layout just yet
[19:20:09] <Tom_itx> probably just the last element
[19:20:17] <JT-Shop> ah, ok
[19:20:23] <Tom_itx> just a cad thing
[19:20:43] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant4.jpg
[19:20:48] <Tom_itx> don't think i like it that way
[19:21:09] <Tom_itx> the top is estop
[19:21:19] <Tom_itx> the next 2 are axis and step rate
[19:21:47] <Tom_itx> they're smaller than that.. that's just the part outline
[19:23:14] * JT-Shop goes to spread more mud on the ceiling
[19:23:22] <Tom_itx> i hate that job
[19:23:37] <jdhNC> I hate sanding it
[19:23:38] <Tom_itx> spreading isn't bad, it's the removal
[19:23:42] <Tom_itx> :)
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[19:39:00] <JT-Shop> sanding is no problem if you don't put too much mud on
[19:39:40] <JT-Shop> wow! 3100 members on the forum
[19:42:44] <JT-Shop> will this type of cap (snap in) replace a cap that used a solder connection?
[19:42:47] <JT-Shop> http://media.digikey.com/Photos/Kemet%20Photos/PEH534VCD3220M2.JPG
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[19:45:49] <Tom_itx> the holes might not align just right and the rivets might make it stand off the board
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[19:46:56] <Tom_itx> find the data sheet for it and see what the dimensions are on the legs
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[19:49:45] <JT-Shop> http://capacitoredge.kemet.com/capedge2/DataSheet?pn=A561DE221M400A
[19:50:59] <Tom_itx> it should be ok i think. if the holes are big enough for the legs
[19:51:10] <Tom_itx> i'd still solder it
[19:51:48] <Tom_itx> i think they're snap in so they don't fall out when reflowed
[19:52:24] <JT-Shop> ah ok
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[19:53:16] <Tom_itx> don't go on just what i say.. i've never used that style but that's what it looks like to me
[19:56:12] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/psu1.jpg
[19:56:30] <Tom_itx> those are riveted too but they have a plastic housing to seat against the board
[19:56:56] <Tom_itx> and strangely enough, only 2 leads are used
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[20:00:27] <JT-Shop> those seem to match the old ones the best...
[20:00:47] <Connor> Tom_itx: No LCD Display ?
[20:02:03] <Connor> https://github.com/Connor9220/OpenDRO
[20:02:08] <JT-Shop> dang I need to go to the beer store Jymmm what was that one you liked?
[20:02:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Dos Equis Lager (green bottle)
[20:02:41] <Connor> Some of my code.. I still need to upload my .py files for the EMC side of things.. and that's real rough stuff..
[20:03:00] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: thanks I'll grab a 6er and check it out
[20:03:10] * JT-Shop is in the mood to make beer again :)
[20:03:14] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: cool =)
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[20:26:53] <ssi> I'm in the mood to consume beer
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[21:15:43] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I checked that I still had that G43 problem in sim, then started to make a packaged example. Then it went away.
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[21:26:04] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: DEL green bottles are like chicken lips round here... hard to find
[21:26:24] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I hate when that happens and you don't know what it was
[21:27:05] <andypugh> I do think that there is a definite problem, I just don't know how to isolate it.
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[21:28:01] <JT-Shop> do you ever use G92?
[21:28:16] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yeah, not every places carries lager
[21:28:42] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: If you go out to dinner sometime just ask the restraunt if they have it
[21:28:43] <JT-Shop> I only found 2 six packs of the regular... at two different stores :/
[21:29:04] <JT-Shop> it's on my list for when I go to the big city
[21:29:11] <andypugh> I use G92 to find the current position in some of my macros, but it had never been used in the sim I was working with.
[21:29:12] <Jymmm> there ya go
[21:29:28] <JT-Shop> hmmm
[21:29:39] <andypugh> Anyway, even with G92, DRO should match commanded position, yes?
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[21:29:58] <JT-Shop> AFAIK, yes
[21:32:45] <andypugh> Now, with my CNC conversion mill, I am keeping manual Z, mainly for drilling applications. I wonder if it is worth keeping manual Y? I am thinking of keeping the existing handle on a push-in-to-engage arrangement.
[21:35:32] <JT-Shop> my BP Anilam conversion CNC mill has that feature but I never use it as I much prefer to know I'm drilling at the correct rate
[21:35:55] <andypugh> I don't know the correct rate, so have to go by feel.
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[21:56:14] <JT-Shop> I have a spreadsheet and I only enter the SFM and the rest is calculated magically
[21:56:48] <JT-Shop> when I go by feel I usually ruin more bits as I tend to feed too slow
[21:57:13] <JT-Shop> can you open an excel spreadsheet?
[21:57:39] <mrsunshine> are there any advantages of the ball linear bearings compared to ordenary bronze bushings? :P
[21:57:41] <mrsunshine> or oilite
[21:58:02] <mrsunshine> starting torque?
[21:58:36] <JT-Shop> for a sliding application? all have some kind of advantage over the other...
[21:58:49] <mrsunshine> yeah for sliding
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[22:09:57] <andypugh> Much lower friction, is the main advantage. They can run preloaded and still move too.
[22:10:42] <andypugh> Plain bushed might be more rigid though.
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[22:53:44] <Tom_itx> Connor i considered an LCD and decided it might be more of an annoyance
[22:54:04] <Tom_itx> i may possibly build one with an lcd later to see
[22:57:02] <Tom_itx> andypugh, put a pendant on it and you will need no manual
[22:58:47] <andypugh> I like the idea of being able to use it quickly without booting a PC
[23:03:10] <andypugh> random, but I thought this was interesting: http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/3007.html
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[23:23:38] <West0n> What do you all use for g code creation?
[23:24:01] <andypugh> Personally, gedit.
[23:24:16] <Tom_itx> smartcam
[23:24:34] <andypugh> I have used Excel
[23:26:35] <Tom_itx> copy con term
[23:27:20] <andypugh> Thinking back, I have used SheetCAM, that's pretty good for 2.5D
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[23:32:12] <skunkworks___> so - I was using a ground bushing to calibrate the probe.. but the diameter was alway about .0005 off between the x axis and y axis. Finally measured the ground bushing and it is .0005 out of round ;)
[23:32:32] <JT-Shop> heh
[23:32:52] <JT-Shop> skunkworks___: you get a copy on that weight?
[23:33:47] <skunkworks___> JT-Shop: yes - I am going to email you a ups tag - I can get one from work that has it's discounts.
[23:33:53] <JT-Shop> car song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUDtFdnn9oQ
[23:33:53] <skunkworks___> tomorrow
[23:33:59] <JT-Shop> ok
[23:34:16] <skunkworks___> call tag or whatever they call it
[23:34:46] <JT-Shop> ok
[23:37:08] <West0n> Skunkworks?
[23:37:11] <West0n> From 4hv?
[23:37:31] <skunkworks___> West0n?
[23:39:43] <skunkworks___> 4hv?
[23:39:57] <Tom_itx> Ώ
[23:40:03] <skunkworks___> who?
[23:41:22] <Tom_itx> who's on first
[23:43:42] <West0n> Skunkworks!!!
[23:43:48] <West0n> Oh.
[23:43:52] <West0n> Nm
[23:44:04] <West0n> There is a 2nd skunkworks :/
[23:44:33] <skunkworks___> West0n: what is a 4hv?
[23:46:06] <andypugh> Sorry, another random link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZyaOlrb7E&feature=fvsr
[23:48:35] <Tom_itx> i bet that would be even better if i had sound
[23:49:10] <skunkworks___> same here :(
[23:49:47] <Tom_itx> http://www.baseball-almanac.com/humor4.shtml
[23:49:53] <Tom_itx> my reference to 'who's on first'
[23:51:21] <West0n> A website skunkworks
[23:51:25] <West0n> A high voltage forum
[23:51:29] <West0n> 4hv.org
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