#emc | Logs for 2011-06-14

[00:00:26] <JT-Shop> home/yourname/emc2/configs/myconfig ?
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[00:05:49] <JT-Shop> wow it has been a year and half since I converted the CHNC http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/id,1276/catid,30/limit,6/limitstart,0/lang,english/
[00:06:17] * JT-Shop wanders in to fix some chow
[00:07:42] <Tom_L> hmm
[00:08:01] <Tom_L> spindle.runs-forward gets toggled with the axis buttons
[00:08:14] <Tom_L> as does spindle.is-on
[00:08:55] <Aero-Tec> got it working
[00:08:58] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[00:09:04] <Aero-Tec> got the cool tabs now
[00:09:25] <Aero-Tec> just have to figure out how to use it
[00:09:27] <Aero-Tec> lol
[00:09:42] <Tom_L> key to becoming a guru
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[00:10:42] <elmo40> ahh, guru status.
[00:12:01] <Aero-Tec> tried to play with it, simp tab said error y is used
[00:12:21] <Aero-Tec> not sure what that meant as there was no Y
[00:14:01] <Aero-Tec> near line 26 of auto.ng
[00:14:46] <andypugh> Aero-tec silly-cool thing with emc2..: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4q8gCpeY1A
[00:17:46] <Aero-Tec> andy, that is very cool
[00:19:15] <andypugh> And http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4
[00:19:31] <elmo40> ya, seen that. very cool. I have seen our Mazak Integrex do a 3" octagon at 450RPM. you see the carriage just shutter :P
[00:20:34] <Aero-Tec> you would think it hard on the ball screws hammering at such high speeds
[00:21:33] <Aero-Tec> I keep getting bad character 'y' used
[00:21:45] <Aero-Tec> anyone know what that means?
[00:21:59] <Aero-Tec> or should I be looking into the manual
[00:22:01] <andypugh> It means you are using mill code in a lathe config
[00:22:18] <Aero-Tec> lol
[00:22:19] <Aero-Tec> ok
[00:22:27] <elmo40> ya, the ballscrews do go through hell.
[00:22:48] <elmo40> a night shift guy turned the RPM up 150%, said it shook the machine! bad bad boy.
[00:22:50] <Tom_L> loadrt toggle2nist [count=N|names=name1[,name2...]]
[00:22:52] <andypugh> Lathes are XZ machines, so any Y-words in the G-code are an error
[00:23:08] <Tom_L> when i add names= i get an 'unknown symbol' error
[00:23:33] <Tom_L> i need that to run 2 instances of toggle2nist right?
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[00:27:15] <andypugh> Tom_L: No, you can just use count=2 and then use toggle2nist.0 and togglet2nist.1
[00:27:34] <andypugh> Not all components support "names=", basically only the ones written in comp.
[00:27:35] <Tom_L> what are 'names' for then?
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[00:27:49] <andypugh> To make the HAL code more wasily human-readable
[00:27:54] <Tom_L> i quoted from the help file on that ^
[00:28:34] <Tom_L> but thanks for the heads up on count. wasn't sure what it was counting
[00:30:12] <Tom_L> apparently 'names' isn't supported on that function
[00:31:13] <Tom_L> what about functions like and2? are they reusable?
[00:31:37] <andypugh> Yes, you can have count of and2s, or you can uses names= there.
[00:33:32] <andypugh> Actually, I think that your problem was probably spaces in the names= string.
[00:33:50] <Tom_L> no spaces
[00:34:00] <Tom_L> just names=name1,name2
[00:34:13] <Tom_L> like the example shows
[00:34:34] <andypugh> I just did loadrt toggle2nist names=togglealpha,togglebeta and it worked fine
[00:34:55] <Tom_L> you don't use count if you use names?
[00:34:58] <andypugh> No
[00:35:04] <Tom_L> well damn
[00:35:07] <andypugh> either/or
[00:35:08] <Tom_L> they should clarify that
[00:35:27] <Tom_L> but i do now see the | or there
[00:35:31] <andypugh> Yes they should. They! You listening?
[00:35:39] <Tom_L> HEY THEY!!
[00:35:50] <Tom_L> it's there but ever so suttle
[00:36:10] <andypugh> "They" is generally jthornton actually.
[00:36:18] <Tom_L> yeah i figured
[00:36:28] <Tom_L> or KimK?
[00:37:00] <Tom_L> or a 'how to read the manual' page
[00:37:28] <Tom_L> it should be xor actually
[00:38:29] <andypugh> Right, logging off time.
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[00:38:55] <Tom_L> gawd JT-Shop, get your syntax right :D
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[01:07:48] <JT-Shop> Tom_L: I can't take the credit for much in the docs
[01:08:31] <Tom_L> oh but you were blamed
[01:09:54] <Tom_L> maybe they speak in ignorance
[01:10:58] <Tom_L> i'd think you would want most of the same code in the spindle on off since you'd want to see if another source toggled it
[01:11:21] <JT-Shop> in that case yes
[01:11:31] <JT-Shop> perhaps
[01:13:31] <Tom_L> would i toggle the spindle.start spindle.stop bits?
[01:13:40] <Tom_L> they don't change with the soft button
[01:13:53] <Tom_L> but spindle.runs.forward does
[01:13:59] <Tom_L> and 'is-on'
[01:22:16] <KimK> Back from the lawn. Is there a docs error?
[01:22:48] <Tom_L> meh just confusing
[01:23:12] <Tom_L> the count= and names= can't co-exhist i guess
[01:23:35] <Tom_L> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/toggle2nist.9.html
[01:23:53] <Tom_L> there is an | or there but it's pretty obscure
[01:24:13] <Tom_L> technically it should be an ^ xor
[01:24:14] <Tom_L> :D
[01:24:15] <KimK> Really? You mean when you specify names it counts them for the count? Interesting.
[01:24:32] <Tom_L> apparently you can't use both
[01:24:49] <Tom_L> mind you i'm using 2.5.0
[01:25:09] <KimK> OK. I'll look in the docs for that later. Thanks.
[01:25:48] <Tom_L> if you're used to using emc i'm sure it's fine but not for a noob
[01:28:29] <Tom_L> the whole 'instance' thing could be clarified a bit too
[01:28:51] <Tom_L> ie, explain what count does
[01:29:49] <KimK> OK. I will look that part over. Thanks.
[01:30:30] <Tom_L> it's easy to forget things like that when you've been using it forever
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[03:33:54] <Gensor> kim: are you up?
[03:34:25] <KimK> Gensor: I sure am. What's going on?
[03:35:58] <Gensor> I am not yet motivated for the next effort on the halls, but was wondering if you had some more ideas in troubleshooting... or possibly I have trashed that part of the circuit
[03:38:27] <KimK> No, not necessarily blown, the possibility of a separate power lead means you may have been testing open lines (disconnected parts). Other possibilities too.
[03:40:22] <KimK> Or, if there's some kind of power switching going on, it may be that the Halls (as the data sheet implied) are only active on power-on for a second or two, and then cut off. So we're testing "too late". Lots of possibilites.
[03:41:06] <KimK> possibilities (can't stop editing, lol!)
[03:43:45] <Tom_itx> kimk, typo on that link i pasted earlier as well
[03:44:00] <KimK> I'll let it "simmer" and see if I come up with anything else. In the meantime, don't panic, lol.
[03:44:46] <KimK> Tom_itx: Your pendant photo? That worked, I saw it, nice!
[03:45:31] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna make a nicer one once it's all working
[03:45:42] <Tom_itx> just keeps the wires organized a bit
[03:45:42] <Gensor> andy and another aw???? might have some insight also
[03:46:11] <Tom_itx> KimK, the typo was in the toggle2nist function
[03:46:55] <KimK> Oh, sure, we understand how early development goes. In fact, I'm a Mesa fan/user, and I recognized those pink poly bags that the Mesa cards are sitting on, lol. No problem. Make it pretty later.
[03:47:38] <Tom_itx> If is-on is true then on is false and off is true.
[03:47:38] <Tom_itx> If is-on is false the on true and off is false.
[03:48:06] <Tom_itx> .... is false then on ....
[03:48:51] <Tom_itx> or something like that
[03:49:29] <KimK> Oh, OK. Sorry, I didn't follow that one. I'm not a big fan of "toggle" functions, I prefer the old school "Start/Stop" latching circuit. Costs two inputs, but solves a lot of problems, IMHO.
[03:50:19] <KimK> But for those who want the toggle function, there it is.
[03:50:39] <Tom_itx> i'm just playing around with em. i may not keep it this way but i won't know if i like it unless i try it once
[03:51:04] <KimK> Sure, experimenting is good. Try it and see.
[03:51:18] <Tom_itx> the pause/resume works ok
[03:51:39] <Tom_itx> working on spindle on/off then coolant on/off
[03:51:49] <Tom_itx> although i don't have coolant
[03:54:07] <KimK> Ha, I started out on (mostly) Dynapath controls, so I'm used to a nice pair of illuminated pushbuttons, one green (cycle start) with a guard, and one red (feedhold) with an extension. So that's another one I don't need a toggle for, lol.
[03:55:17] <KimK> In fact, I have a friend who doesn't care for the "play" icon for cycle start.
[03:55:30] <Tom_itx> heh
[03:55:33] <KimK> Wants a green circle or something.
[03:56:31] <Tom_itx> you can't please anyone all the time or everyone any of the time
[03:57:19] <KimK> For coolant, I like the CNC front panel method of "off-auto-on".
[03:57:57] <Tom_itx> most of this is just an exercise to get familiar with emc
[03:58:10] <KimK> Hey, that's a good thing!
[03:58:38] <Tom_itx> i've got 10 hardcopy books on the 68332 i've waded thru to learn about it
[03:58:40] <KimK> And it's a lot of fun too, figuring stuff out.
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[03:59:02] <Tom_itx> only 2 'pink books' on the 68hc11
[03:59:17] <Tom_itx> now it's avrs
[03:59:17] <KimK> Really? Are you doing anything in that area currently?
[03:59:27] <Tom_itx> i still have the boards
[03:59:32] <Tom_itx> but they're just sitting
[04:00:02] <KimK> Ah, that's something I'd like to try (AVR) but maybe later, too many unfinished projects right now.
[04:00:02] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/maxbot/maxbot_index.php
[04:00:06] <Tom_itx> one is on that
[04:02:02] <KimK> Nice!
[04:04:10] <KimK> I like gathering parts to make stuff, but I've had to cut back on spending lately. I'll get back to it eventually, though.
[04:05:57] <KimK> What part of the country are you in?
[04:06:55] <Tom_itx> ks
[04:07:13] <Tom_itx> remember.. i'm about a mile from that dude's shop
[04:07:14] <KimK> Oh, that's right, near Stuart? Great!
[04:08:14] <KimK> Hoping to hear from him in late summer or fall. We'll see.
[04:22:16] <Gensor> Servo Dynamics sells these motors... and I believe that you can find there the encoder connections... the hall sensors, can get there power, separate from the encoder. I found they draw more power, which can cause problems reading them.
[04:22:16] <Gensor> The encoder as well should have separate power source from the halls... or if they are on the same source, make sure they are able to handle this...
[04:22:16] <Gensor> The halls will have 6 different configurations... thus they could be:
[04:22:17] <Gensor> 123
[04:22:17] <Gensor> 132
[04:22:17] <Gensor> 213
[04:22:17] <Gensor> 231
[04:22:17] <Gensor> 321
[04:22:18] <Gensor> 312
[04:22:19] <Gensor> In order to get them match to the drive, and how you wired the motor, you may just have to see which combination works, by "trial and error"...?
[04:23:37] <Gensor> Kim: This is from a youtube contact, however the pinouts and color code for Servo Dynamics is different than mine
[04:27:16] <KimK> Gensor: Yes, Andy was talking about some of his "trial-and-error" experiences. He talked of a lot more combinations than 6, but then a lot of them get ruled out as "not allowed" or "allowed, but silly", etc., so maybe 6 was his result too, I don't remember. He was solving a sort of general case for one of his new components.
[04:28:22] <KimK> Oh, and I think the other fellow you were trying to think of was awallin, perhaps?
[04:28:56] <Gensor> http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffserv#p/a/u/2/C_Uy9KAMCWI
[04:29:03] <Gensor> kim: correct
[04:34:54] <KimK> Nice video. Runs smooth. But he never showed any of the wrong connections, or how it faulted, or anything like that. The magic marker lines on the green masking tape(?) look like the outputs from the Halls. About 1/2 to 1/3 on(?), and about 120 degrees (give or take) out of sync. That's why I said they should be a lot easier for you to find than that index pulse.
[04:35:00] <Gensor> Kim: Could one of the encoder wires be power for the first second?
[04:36:47] <KimK> I don't think so, we've got a pretty good handle on those now. Of course the encoder power could be Hall power too, for a couple of seconds. Try that when you get back to it, turn it on and test fast, lol!
[04:37:03] <Gensor> kim: 2 outputs are on all the time with/without pullup resistor. the other 4 wires are off with/without pullup. none of the wires are an aux power or ground
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[04:37:33] <Gensor> kim: already did... same results
[04:39:13] <KimK> Do they show any kind of thermal sensor or switch in your motor diagrams? Sometimes that's an extra small pair of wires.
[04:40:11] <KimK> I mean an extra pair of small wires, lol.
[04:43:31] <Gensor> kim: sanyo datasheets I have does not reference a thermal wire
[04:45:00] <KimK> OK. It was just a guess. Trying to eliminate suspects, lol. But wait, you've got some color-code lists, right? Are we scoring high on any of them?
[04:45:41] <Gensor> high on two
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[04:50:02] <Gensor> im using an atx power supply with the perifial connector for the gnd and 5v
[04:56:37] <KimK> If the supply is happy (putting out close to +5V) then great. Some switching supplies are unhappy if too lightly loaded, sometimes you have to put a load resistor on it to take about 20% power to make it happy. But if yours is working, great.
[04:56:39] <Gensor> kim: Im thinking about hooking up a second servo to determine if the last 6 outputs behave the same
[04:57:27] <Gensor> its driving the motherboard drives etc, its a throw away system
[04:57:50] <Gensor> and the voltage is good and stable
[05:01:42] <KimK> Oh, if it's driving the MB then no problem. I thought it was just sitting there alone running your encoder tests.
[05:02:38] <Gensor> yep... second motor review later this week. thanks again for your assistance!
[05:03:17] <KimK> OK, great, I'll look forward to hearing more news. Goodnight?
[05:03:42] <Gensor> yep... night time for me
[05:03:54] <KimK> Me too pretty soon. Goodnight.
[05:06:03] <Gensor> oh... side note, someone offered to sell a tool room off brand cnc with 4 or 5 axis in good condition except the system did not boot properly on the time. Im sure with enought effort and help from here it could be a nice machine. just thought what your comments are for 400 over scrap costs
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[05:06:42] <Gensor> im curious what your comments are
[05:08:14] <KimK> Four or five axis? Do you know which it is? This is a mill? What brand of machine? What brand of control?
[05:09:54] <KimK> If you don't mind me asking, how much do they want for it?
[05:13:38] <Gensor> its been a couple months... and am trying to find him again. it was a goofy green colored equipment that was not enclosed. sorry I dont have all the info. some reason the company started with a fxxxx
[05:15:09] <KimK> Could it have been a Deckel or Maho ? (Those are connected somehow, I don't know the whole history) Those can be very nice.
[05:15:10] <Gensor> if memory serves me right it was 5 axis, the fifth having a rotating table with a centerline parallel with the spindle
[05:16:00] <KimK> Sometimes they have a flipping spindle so they can be either a vertical or horizontal mill.
[05:16:41] <Gensor> he said it did alot, but at the time I had my heart set on an bp interact
[05:16:56] <Gensor> those maho images look familar
[05:17:14] <KimK> See what you can find out and let me know. It might be worth pursuing.
[05:18:08] <Gensor> its weight was somewhere between 2500-5000lbs
[05:18:50] <KimK> Sounds right, I've never run into one that was very big.
[05:20:14] <KimK> But I don't claim to be an expert on them and all their models and history.
[05:21:02] <Gensor> no prob... I still think I would have more use for a bigger table with travel than a 5 axis tool room cnc
[05:22:38] <KimK> Yes, Deckels and Mahos are good at making odd things that aren't real big, but not small either. They can be pretty handy.
[05:37:14] <aggrav8d> kimk - hi
[05:37:34] <aggrav8d> sorry for disappearing yesterday after givin you the update. I've got a lot on my plate at the moment.
[05:38:08] <aggrav8d> basically... the circles in your code worked perfectly but the arcs were not going according to plan.
[05:38:36] <KimK> No problem. Any news on your machine? Seems like a loose coupler or something similar? If not losing/gaining steps, I mean.
[05:38:52] <aggrav8d> the tool would cut the corners short. also when it was supposed to cut the same arc over again (from a different direction, as part of another flower) then the lines didn't match up.
[05:39:44] <aggrav8d> i've checked for loose pieces forwards and back on every axis. when powered the machine has no give.
[05:40:05] <aggrav8d> maybe i'm not checking the right way. :T
[05:40:55] <KimK> Yes, I noticed that the flowers didn't line up. Also in your photos, it looked like (in a single flower?) that the "tips" did not go all the way into their flower circle. I'm not sure what that means, since the tips point in all directions.
[05:41:22] <aggrav8d> http://imgur.com/a/477Rf#09c3S
[05:41:55] <aggrav8d> yeah, as EMC2 is running i can see the intended path in white and the actual path in pink and the pink is not reaching the tips.
[05:42:14] <aggrav8d> so at least there the program matches the output, even if it's unexpected.
[05:42:28] <aggrav8d> the not lining up is still a mystery.
[05:43:34] <KimK> Oh, is that really the case? OK, maybe it's not like I remember it then, I was going by what I thought the geometry of the circles and arcs required, I thought they "had to" meet at the tips/circle. Not so?
[05:44:06] <aggrav8d> yes, they should.
[05:44:42] <aggrav8d> the pink path (actual path travelled by the machine) is not reaching the tips. even EMC admits it isn't doing it right.
[05:44:57] <KimK> I mean, by the photos, they're off (short) quite a bit. It looks like the petals are making a "short loop" and going back without ever even touching the circle, let alone going into the center of it.
[05:45:31] <aggrav8d> definitely short loop. not sure what you mean by "going into the center"
[05:45:35] <KimK> Oh, does your machine have real feedback? Encoders? CUI magnetics? Something else?
[05:46:03] <aggrav8d> no. EMC is plotting a course that doesn't reach the circle.
[05:46:16] <aggrav8d> and the machine is happily following that course.
[05:46:38] <KimK> Really? Hmm, I don't remember seeing that on sim. Maybe I should sim again?
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[05:50:25] <aggrav8d> please, do.
[05:50:38] <aggrav8d> what do you sim with?
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[05:59:15] <KimK> I just use one of the sim versions of EMC2. In this case a "stock" one. Here's a screenshot, mine looks good here, I think. It's zoomed in tight on the origin flower after the origin flower is done and the tool has moved off to the right. Then I stopped it while I was rapiding. I discovered if I stop it in the subroutine, all the same arc (or whatever) is highlighted everywhere it occurs, lol! http://imagebin.org/158183
[06:02:56] <KimK> Now, if you're using that G64(?) "close enough" code, it could conceivably fall short, saying, close enough, but it should be repeatable, so that doesn't explain the irregular (random?) non-alignments.
[06:03:09] <aggrav8d> maybe i have misconfigured something?
[06:03:18] <aggrav8d> so many vectors to consider...
[06:03:36] <KimK> What about encoders on your machine?
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[06:05:11] <KimK> Earlier you said EMC2 can see it's going off track and the pink confirms it, so are you saying your machine has encoder (or similar) feedback?
[06:06:05] <KimK> Let me try zooming in to a ridiculous extent...
[06:07:46] <aggrav8d> you know how on my cut the arcs loop short of touching the circle?
[06:08:06] <aggrav8d> the pink line in EMC2 does the same. now, if the machine were fucking up then they shouldn't match.
[06:08:32] <aggrav8d> so i think there's two overlapping issues here.
[06:09:01] <KimK> Yes, and by quite a bit too, judging by the width of your cut v-groove, which is what, 0.150 or so?
[06:09:16] <aggrav8d> the first is that my software is telling the machine to do the wrong thing; the second is that there *might* be something loose or lost steps or what not.
[06:09:42] <aggrav8d> probably less than 0.15.
[06:09:46] <aggrav8d> let me measure.
[06:10:02] <aggrav8d> something like 0.05
[06:11:13] <KimK> Next time you run that, save a screen shot for me, I'd like to see that.
[06:13:20] <aggrav8d> i will. my instinct said take a picture at the time and - yet again - i didn't listen.
[06:14:31] <KimK> Now when I zoom in on sim (on the 3 O'clock tip of the origin flower), I can see the circle take off upward. Then when it returns from the bottom, it blends as it curves to the upper left. So the circle in fact does not close. But by what, 0.001"? I mean, I'm really zoomed in tight here. Would you like a screenshot?
[06:15:28] <aggrav8d> ok
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[06:22:00] <KimK> OK, there you go. Now there's nothing wrong with this, it seems entirely normal to me. Just zoomed in *insanely* tight. Maybe 0.002" or 0.003" radius from center? http://imagebin.org/158184
[06:25:17] <KimK> That's showing the "blend" function at work, I'll see if I can find the default settings, I don't know what they are... I see G64 ("best possible speed") in the MDI window, but no P or Q values (would I?).
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[06:28:18] <aggrav8d> so what could it be?
[06:29:38] <KimK> So this 2nd pix is "pretty bad" because I'm asking for fastest speed. I could use G61 (exact path) or G61.1 (exact stop) or G64 P0.001 (blend tolerance) and probably get an improvement. but if the 0.050" groove moved 0.002" (4%) could you tell by looking?
[06:32:52] <KimK> How slow can you travel before you have problems with burning the wood/cutter? Or, can you rig up a pen holder? I was thinking to have you try changing your config to go slower and with less accel/decel. If you can't find anything loose you've got to be losing steps. Otherwise it's a "mystery".
[06:34:31] <aggrav8d> If my machine were reliable, I'd make a pen holder. :P
[06:34:59] <KimK> Haha, chicken and egg, eh? OK.
[06:35:05] <aggrav8d> i'm only moving at 80ipm as it is. I'll try 0.1 of that and see what happens.
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[06:36:50] <KimK> That would be a good thing to try. Though I understand you might have to do it later due to night. You never answered about the encoders. Does your machine have them?
[06:37:01] <aggrav8d> hey, is there a command to reset all register values and return to default settings?
[06:37:25] <aggrav8d> after i run the tort.nc it always leaves my machine in a wierd setting where I can't jog around in the normal way.
[06:38:53] <KimK> Register values as in modal codes or parameters? I don't think either one, actually. Well, you could restart for the modal codes, I guess. Crude. Oh, it does? What's wrong?
[06:48:47] <aggrav8d> it's scaled funny? like i tell it to go to 0 and it moves maybe 1/30 of what it should. i mean in the app. the machine moves exactly what the app tells it to.
[06:49:51] <KimK> You know, just for grins the next time you run the flower test, try putting it in G61 (exact path) or G61.1 (exact stop) too. You can try a run with G64 P0.001 too if you like.
[06:51:04] <KimK> Oh, 1/30 th? Could it be 1/25.4 th? Maybe the tort.ngc is in mm, I didn't check? Check G20/G21 status next time you run it.
[06:56:35] <aggrav8d> yeah, that sounds likely.
[06:56:49] <aggrav8d> i've just been reading on gcode commands. about time i learn.
[06:57:06] <aggrav8d> maybe write an interpreter that gives me human-readable stuff to work with.
[06:57:59] <KimK> Learning is always good. What did you decide about encoders (or similar), does your machine have them?
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[07:00:52] <KimK> If it does, that's a good thing, they can help troubleshoot. In fact, they should be faulting out. Following error.
[07:02:15] <KimK> If not faulting, probably set too loose.
[07:02:24] <aggrav8d> yeah, it has them.
[07:02:34] <aggrav8d> wait.
[07:02:58] <aggrav8d> encoders = drivers? the big black things where i set the microstepping that wire to the steppers?
[07:03:47] <KimK> No, these would be a "rotation sensor" that would be on the stepper motor or on the driven shaft somewhere.
[07:03:59] <aggrav8d> every once in a while i quite emc2 to make a change in the config and when i start emc2 again i get a debug message and i have to reboot the machine before it behaves. related?
[07:04:23] <aggrav8d> ah, right. rotary encoders. don't have any.
[07:04:33] <KimK> Not sure. What's the message?
[07:07:59] <KimK> Interesting that you say that EMC2 seemed aware that it was going off-track, according to the pink lines. And no encoders. I'll have to think about that one. A good time to say goodnight, maybe. Back in 5 minutes.
[07:08:36] <aggrav8d> it just dumps a lot of data and gives up.
[07:08:48] <aggrav8d> good night. it's midnight here.
[07:08:49] <aggrav8d> zzz.z
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[07:36:29] <KimK> goodnight
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[09:30:05] <elmo40> blarg... this is why you don't let the wife set the alarm.
[09:30:42] <elmo40> I wake up at 5:45, she 'accidentally' put the clock ahead an hour! woke up at 4:45. >_<
[09:31:01] <elmo40> I was wondering why it was so dark outside :-P
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[10:55:48] <jthornton> damm I
[10:56:08] <jthornton> I'm getting bad memory tests on both sets of memory
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[11:03:15] <jthornton> what's an alarm?
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[11:43:42] <Tom_itx> jthornton did you try to reseat them?
[11:44:18] <jthornton> yes, and swapped with a second pair
[11:44:51] <Tom_itx> did the error move?
[11:45:33] <jthornton> I didn't take note of the error :/
[11:45:52] <Tom_itx> if it didn't it could be the controller
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[12:36:40] <jthornton> I wonder if it is heat induced as it is a passive cooled system
[12:36:49] <jthornton> and they are kinda hot
[12:39:34] <Valen> define kinda hot
[12:39:52] <jdhNC> blonde, 22, female
[12:40:43] <Valen> 22? i spose i said kinda ;-P
[12:41:04] <Valen> though i have seen some that meet your constraints that i wouldn't call hot
[12:41:29] <jdhNC> it wasn't really and exclusive/inclusive list
[12:41:29] <Valen> (might want something in there like, <400lb, not on crack etc) ;-P
[12:43:04] <jthornton> maybe 100-120F
[12:43:42] <Valen> eh, thats not hot for ram
[12:43:53] <Valen> if you cant keep your hand on it then its too hot
[12:44:14] <Valen> (keep in mind i'm a wuss when it comes to that test ;->)
[12:45:16] <jthornton> it is a lot hotter than my desktop pc... I wonder if the memtest86 makes it hot
[12:46:11] <Valen> i don't know if use actually makes ram hot
[12:46:18] <Valen> what brand is it?
[12:46:34] <jthornton> gskill
[12:47:11] <Valen> probably runs hotter than generic stuff
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[12:47:50] <jthornton> just reading some reviews and one chap says how cool they run
[12:48:13] <Valen> generally "performance" stuff runs hotter for me lol
[12:48:31] <Valen> i'd be blaming the mbo if you failed memtest on 2 sets of ram
[12:48:57] <archivist_emc> driving it hard it will get hotter
[12:49:30] <archivist_emc> add a fan see it runs ok
[12:50:01] <jthornton> that's my next plan to let it cool off and see how hot it gets just running the OS
[12:50:29] <archivist_emc> is it in a sealed box
[12:51:00] <Valen> overheating northbridges is bad mmmmkay
[12:51:16] * Valen had a mbo half die when i went from cpu fan to water cooler
[12:51:31] <Valen> the mbo used the breeze from the fan to cool the northbridge too
[12:51:53] <archivist_emc> if sealed box adding a fan to circulate the air will reduce the thermal resistance to the case
[12:52:18] <Valen> old russian trick they used in their satellites
[12:52:44] <Valen> rather than putting heat pipes to radiators for every component that got slightly warm and analising the ass off everything to see what got warm
[12:52:54] <Valen> they just pressurised the satellite and put some fans in it
[12:53:28] <jdhNC> pump it full of helium
[12:53:53] <Valen> you still need to circulate it, in space nobody gets convection currents
[12:54:11] <Valen> was sposed to be an "in space nobody can hear you scream" thing, but it didn't really work
[12:54:20] <jdhNC> one side is probably hot, the other cold (relatively)
[12:54:40] <jdhNC> in soviet russia, space cools you
[12:54:47] <jdhNC> didn't work either.
[12:54:57] <Valen> mainly because its true lol
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[13:10:32] <JT-Shop> archivist_emc: it is in a vented case
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[13:15:27] <archivist_emc> but are the vents large enough to let a sensible amount of air to enter
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[13:26:11] <Valen> passive ventilation is hard to get right
[13:26:15] <Valen> like real hard
[13:26:23] <Valen> stick some kind of fan in it lol
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[14:04:14] <JT-Shop> archivist_emc: the hood is off so yea plenty of air is there
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[14:16:49] <JT-Shop> wow it don't take long splitting wood in June to get soaking wet and want to come inside and cool off
[14:17:44] <SWPadnos> is it raining?
[14:18:16] <JT-Shop> nope, well yea from my head it is raining
[14:18:23] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:18:30] <JT-Shop> I lasted about 50 minutes
[14:18:35] <SWPadnos> gotta wait until it gets cold enough to need the wood
[14:18:49] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: $me was 4 hours in a outlet mall here in germany, pushing my wifes wheelchair from shop to shop... i am STILL soaking wet
[14:18:50] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[14:18:58] <JT-Shop> I need to return the wood splitter... I've had it for 6 months
[14:19:16] <SWPadnos> what? you weren't actually chopping the wood?
[14:19:17] <JT-Shop> the owner might forget he owns one
[14:19:30] <SWPadnos> keep it a while longer - maybe he already has ...
[14:19:37] <JT-Shop> can't split these with an axe they are too big
[14:19:52] <SWPadnos> a likely story
[14:20:07] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: depends on the PoV: you/the axe are to small!
[14:20:39] <JT-Shop> I use a double sided axe when splitting by hand
[14:20:54] <SWPadnos> sounds painful
[14:21:24] <JT-Shop> these are about 24" in diameter so by hand I would have to use wedges to split it the first time then the axe works
[14:22:08] <JT-Shop> building a wood splitter is on my list after using one for the first time
[14:24:30] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: did you get your coolant toggle sorted out?
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[17:25:15] <IchGuckLive> Hevy posting Here !
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[17:53:08] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, not yet. got interrupted and never made it back
[17:53:41] <Tom_itx> i built one of those once
[17:53:59] <Tom_itx> from an old truck axle as a base
[17:55:23] <Tom_itx> you know it splits easier when it's frozen
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[17:56:25] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna make a logic flow chart for it i think so i can follow it easier
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[18:06:00] <JT-Shop> hold on a sec and I'll have one on the forum
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[18:08:02] <alex4nder> hey
[18:08:42] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,47/id,10494/lang,english/
[18:09:10] <alex4nder> anyone in here using EMC with a Taig mill?
[18:09:26] <JT-Shop> opps I see a typo on the chart
[18:09:37] <JT-Shop> I think a bunch do
[18:10:19] <cradek> hi alex4nder, whether or not any of them are here right now, go ahead and ask your real question
[18:14:26] <alex4nder> cradek: I'm mainly looking examples of a Taig setup with EMC (e.g. stepper, driver, EMC configuration)
[18:14:39] <alex4nder> I'm thinking of getting that setup myself.
[18:14:45] <cradek> ah gotcha
[18:14:57] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: ok, I've fixed the chart
[18:15:09] <cradek> I think some people use the xylotex kit for a machine that size. it is probably a bit underpowered though.
[18:15:25] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Can I pick you brian on something?
[18:15:34] <Jymmm> brain
[18:16:27] <JT-Shop> alex4nder: some examples here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Case_Studies
[18:16:43] <JT-Shop> and here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Videos
[18:17:42] <JT-Shop> and a google search with this emc2 taig youtube gives a bunch of hits
[18:18:23] <JT-Shop> YEA! Jonesboro Honda fixed my Wing
[18:18:43] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Now it has a rev gear?
[18:19:14] <JT-Shop> always did have reverse... they reversed the damage done by the local Honda Dealer
[18:19:15] <alex4nder> JT-Shop: yah, I've seen most of this material
[18:19:58] <JT-Shop> ok
[18:20:44] <alex4nder> I think I'm just going to order a Taig setup for CNC, but with the handcranks installed
[18:20:54] <ve7it> JT-Shop, cool... I guess they removed 2 spark plugs so it sounds like a real hog now!
[18:20:56] <alex4nder> mainly to get going, and to be able to make any additional parts needed for the conversion.
[18:21:22] <Jymmm> If you have (lets say) 4 I/O pins on a uC, is there any way to multiplex to get more? be it input or output only would be fine.
[18:21:47] <JT-Shop> ve7it: they would have to remove 4 sparkplugs to sound that bad and take the mufflers off
[18:22:01] <alex4nder> Jymmm: yah there are a bunch of ways to accomplish that, what are you trying to do?
[18:22:02] <ve7it> :}
[18:22:30] <Jymmm> alex4nder: You familure with the 3pin fans found in most PC's?
[18:22:37] <alex4nder> yup
[18:22:38] <JT-Shop> also be the only way a hog could pass me up :)
[18:22:54] <cradek> Jymmm: running them into a SIPO shift register is one very easy way to get an arbitrary number of outputs
[18:22:55] <alex4nder> JT-Shop: what do you ride?
[18:23:06] <JT-Shop> GoldWing
[18:23:11] <alex4nder> werd.
[18:23:34] <JT-Shop> of course if Flame came by I would let him pass me... once
[18:23:38] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Basically trying to build a fan controller than can have 6 fans, and report back to the mobo if one fails.
[18:23:44] <alex4nder> I ride a GSXR600.
[18:24:09] <alex4nder> Jymmm: ah,.. do you need to be able to control each one, or just sense if any of them break?
[18:25:04] <Jymmm> alex4nder: control would be nice, but mostly looking at fialure reporting. I figure setting an alarm on the mobo, then have thecircuit send back a PWM single as a percentage of qty of fans
[18:25:18] <alex4nder> ah
[18:25:28] <JT-Shop> alex4nder: nice ride, bet that is quick
[18:25:30] <alex4nder> what uC are you using?
[18:25:37] <Jymmm> one fan failure == 78% RPM (PWM) is sent to the mobo, etc
[18:25:48] <Jymmm> alex4nder: arduino
[18:25:52] <alex4nder> JT-Shop: yah, it's plenty of bike for me.
[18:26:38] <alex4nder> Jymmm: well you could round-robin sample the RPMs of each fan to search for failures, and report back if/when you find one.
[18:27:11] <Jymmm> alex4nder: I figure a calibration routine upon installing/replacing a fan
[18:27:14] <alex4nder> and just multiplex the fan tachometer signals into your IC
[18:27:38] <alex4nder> (by IC, I mean input capture)
[18:27:49] <JT-Shop> do you have the drive mode selector on your GSX?
[18:28:17] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Now, if I add control, you think the ULS2005 or the like would do the job?
[18:28:39] <alex4nder> JT-Shop: yah, it's an interesting feature. Can't say I use it that often though, if I had a 1000 I think it might add more value.
[18:29:19] <alex4nder> Jymmm: sorry, I don't know about the ULS2005
[18:29:52] <JT-Shop> curb weight 412 lbs, half of what my bike weighs
[18:30:17] <alex4nder> do you tour mainly with yours?
[18:30:23] <Jymmm> alex4nder: http://www.datasheetarchive.com/uls2004*-datasheet.html#
[18:30:58] <JT-Shop> mostly short <250 mile trips with the wife and a few other couples and poker runs etc
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[18:31:28] <JT-Shop> a few weeks back we all drove 325 miles for a pork chop :)
[18:31:49] <JT-Shop> damm good pork chop :)
[18:32:09] <ssi> in the airplane world we call that a $100 hamburger
[18:32:16] <ssi> although nowadays a $100 hamburger costs $250
[18:32:19] <ssi> damn fuel costs D:
[18:32:57] <JT-Shop> yea, that's why we like the bikes low fuel costs
[18:33:21] <ssi> yeah absolutely
[18:33:24] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Oh shit, I didn't realize there were so many pins... http://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardDuemilanove
[18:33:27] <ssi> although I almost killed myself on a bike 4 years ago
[18:33:35] <alex4nder> Jymmm: I don't know, I've never used that part.. current consumption might be a problem, maybe you can gang parts of it together.
[18:33:44] <JT-Shop> that ain't good
[18:33:47] <ssi> and 325 miles on a bike gets to be a chore toward the end... in an airplane you're just breaking a sweat :)
[18:33:47] <alex4nder> Jymmm: yah, there are a lot of I/O options
[18:34:20] <ssi> yea I hit a 15mph blind corner at 80 and reacted incorrectly
[18:34:22] <Jymmm> alex4nder: I can have ext power for the ULS2004 so no problem there, just need the PWM for the fan control and to send back to the mobo
[18:34:28] <ssi> off the throttle in the turn, lowsided
[18:34:38] <ssi> would have been pretty clean except I slid off the road and into a guard rail
[18:34:47] <alex4nder> Jymmm: I mean, the ULS2004 has an Ic max of 500 mA.. is that enough?
[18:34:48] <ssi> broke 4 ribs and my shoulderblade into 7 pieces
[18:34:48] <JT-Shop> ouch
[18:34:59] <Jymmm> alex4nder: I think that's PER PIN
[18:35:00] <JT-Shop> I don't push that hard
[18:35:09] <ssi> I bought another bike 6 months later
[18:35:12] <alex4nder> Jymmm: yah, but some fans suck more than that.
[18:35:19] <alex4nder> so I guess it depends on the parts you're using.
[18:35:19] <ssi> but then an ex-girlfriend of mine was killed on a bike not long after
[18:35:22] <ssi> and I just quit riding after that
[18:35:45] <Jymmm> alex4nder: a fan draws more than 1/2Amp @ 12VDC?!
[18:36:29] <alex4nder> I have some. : |
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[18:38:16] <KimK> 0.5A * 12V = 6W = 0.008 HP
[18:38:40] <KimK> Not sure what you're trying to do though
[18:38:51] <Jymmm> KimK: pc fan controller
[18:39:46] <Jymmm> http://www.infotechnow.com/product_info.php?cPath=54_212&products_id=6011
[18:39:54] <Jymmm> that's a 220mm fan too
[18:40:06] <Jymmm> Current: 0.34A
[18:40:56] <Jymmm> bbiab... foodage
[18:41:02] <KimK> Pretty quiet at 35dBa though
[18:41:28] <Jymmm> KimK: still 40CFM though
[18:42:17] <KimK> Not bad!
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[18:43:44] <andypugh> JT-Shop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnBraegy6lA
[18:43:52] <andypugh> That's your G-code that is.
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[18:48:08] <JT-Shop> andypugh: Neat!
[19:08:30] <Tom_itx> toggle must just be a flip flop then
[19:08:58] <Tom_itx> input high -> on... input high -> off
[19:10:05] <Tom_itx> i need to get out of the C mindset and more of the FPGA mindset i think
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[19:17:28] <JT-Shop> rather the nist mindset for toggle2nist
[19:17:38] <JT-Shop> did the flow chart help?
[19:18:08] <Tom_itx> yeah i'll do a sit down later on and get it working
[19:18:25] <Tom_itx> out diggin potatoes for later
[19:19:26] <Tom_itx> Jymmm use one of the port expander chips
[19:19:29] <Tom_itx> i2c etc
[19:19:31] <Tom_itx> or a mux
[19:19:49] <Tom_itx> 3 for the mux and one for the latch
[19:20:10] <Tom_itx> (you mentioned 4 io)
[19:20:35] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I didn't realize the arduino had so many IO, 7 PWM output would have been perfect, but I can live with 5
[19:21:27] <Tom_itx> mind you some are 8 and others are 16 bit
[19:22:09] <Jymmm> the PWM you mean?
[19:22:13] <Tom_itx> yes
[19:22:22] <Tom_itx> just depends what timer they're hooked to
[19:22:33] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: It's just for reading the RPM sense of pc fans
[19:22:41] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: and one to send back to the mobo
[19:23:25] <Tom_itx> sample one of those fancy little fan controllers from TI
[19:23:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I just want to make a smart pc fan controller capable of controlling six fans.
[19:23:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: does it report a fan failure to the mobo though?
[19:23:54] <Tom_itx> i'm sure some would
[19:24:05] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I haven't seen any yet that do
[19:24:06] <Tom_itx> i bet they have a donzen if they have one
[19:24:49] <Tom_itx> mmm
[19:25:08] <Tom_itx> i never bothered looking close since i haven't needed one yet
[19:25:43] <Tom_itx> read the 3rd wire off the fans
[19:25:53] <Tom_itx> if you get no signal, the fan isn't turning
[19:25:54] <Jymmm> Well, the thing is the #1 hdd killer is heat, so I want to add extra fans, but useless if I don't know if one failed.
[19:26:22] <Tom_itx> put a deck of cards on em so you can hear em
[19:26:27] <Jymmm> lol
[19:26:28] <Tom_itx> like you did on your bike as a kid
[19:26:52] <Jymmm> I was thinking of something that reports back to the mobo to it can send an alert or shut down itself
[19:27:02] <Tom_itx> balloons sounded more like a hog though
[19:27:10] <Jymmm> hahaha
[19:27:37] <Jymmm> what is the minimal pins needed for a 2x16 LCD on arduino?
[19:27:46] <Tom_itx> umm 7
[19:27:55] <Jymmm> I thought you could do 4?
[19:28:01] <Tom_itx> E RS RW D4..7
[19:28:13] <Jymmm> with serial backpack
[19:28:25] <Tom_itx> use my serial thingy
[19:28:27] <Tom_itx> 2313
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[19:29:21] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/serial_lcd_brd.png
[19:29:52] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/serial_lcd_sch.png
[19:30:03] <Jymmm> is there such a thing as PWM input?
[19:30:12] <Tom_itx> input capture
[19:30:34] <Jymmm> ok so I can do that to sense the fan rpm's ?
[19:30:35] <Tom_itx> with an interrupt you can capture on leading trailing or both edges
[19:31:14] <andypugh> Jymmm, we have PWM inputs on engine ECU's. It's a stupid idea and difficult to get working right.
[19:31:16] <Tom_itx> you'd probably need to boost the signal or use an adc
[19:31:38] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: why's that/
[19:31:39] <Jymmm> ?
[19:32:02] <Tom_itx> i haven't measured the signal on a fan, i dunno
[19:32:06] <Jymmm> ok
[19:32:09] <Tom_itx> it may not be much
[19:32:27] <Tom_itx> i'm thinking more like a hall sensor output.. needs a boost
[19:32:32] <Jymmm> I figure it has to be enough when you plug thos into the mobo fan headers
[19:32:49] <Tom_itx> you don't know what's on the mobo to handle it though
[19:32:58] <Jymmm> I'll have to grab one and measure it
[19:33:39] <Tom_itx> hook the output to a tesla coil
[19:33:45] <Tom_itx> that'll boost it
[19:34:07] * Jymmm heads to the tesla store on the corner
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[19:34:49] <Jymmm> now is the time I wish I had a scope *sigh*
[19:35:09] <ssi> everyone needs a scope
[19:35:10] <Tom_itx> get one of those cheap ones off dealextreme
[19:35:13] <ssi> I have three! :D
[19:35:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: You're kidding, right?
[19:35:26] <Tom_itx> or take one of ssi's
[19:35:32] <Tom_itx> no i'm not kidding
[19:35:36] <Jymmm> I'll take ssi's
[19:35:38] <Tom_itx> it's a good scope i hear
[19:35:44] <Tom_itx> 50Mhz
[19:35:48] <ssi> I bought two pretty nice older tek digital scopes that had some issues
[19:35:52] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: which one? Not the pocket scope?
[19:35:55] <Tom_itx> no
[19:35:56] <ssi> replaced all teh leaky caps and washed the boards, and they're perfect
[19:36:42] <archivist_emc> ssi, not enough scopes error :)
[19:37:47] <ssi> Jymmm: what's your scope budget?
[19:37:59] <Jymmm> non existant
[19:38:01] <ssi> I've been buying scopes on ebay for a billion years :P
[19:38:05] <ssi> usually under $100
[19:38:10] <skunkworks_> stupid question... in my hal component for my gear shift I use halui.spindle.stop to stop the spindle if it is running and a spindle lock is called. well - in auto it doesn't work. is there a way to force the spindle off within hal is someone doesn't turn it off before a spindle lock is called?
[19:38:31] <skunkworks_> so the interp knows it is off?
[19:38:39] <Jymmm> ssi: I can do $100
[19:38:48] <Jymmm> ssi: but, I dont want a boat anchor
[19:39:00] <skunkworks_> say - if m3/4 is called - can you turn it off within hal?
[19:39:07] <skunkworks_> am I making sense? ;)
[19:39:08] <Tom_itx> rigol 1052e
[19:39:12] <archivist_emc> dont be fussy Jymmm just get one
[19:39:14] <Tom_itx> i think
[19:39:14] <ssi> http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-TDS-420-Four-Channel-150-MHz-100-MS-s-Digit-/130533199422?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item1e64628e3e#ht_513wt_1141
[19:39:27] <ssi> if that posts without failure, that's worth every bit of $500
[19:39:37] <ssi> if it posts with failure, it probably can be fixed with new caps
[19:39:47] <ssi> I have that model, and it's phenomenal once I fixed the caps
[19:39:51] <ssi> i paid $80 for mine
[19:40:29] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: This? http://www.dealextreme.com/p/5-7-tft-lcd-60mhz-2-channel-digital-color-storage-oscilloscope-54073
[19:40:42] <alex4nder> Tom_itx: I'd agree with the Rigol.
[19:41:02] <alex4nder> especially if you aren't actually interested in fixing a scope.
[19:41:30] <ssi> here's why I didn't mind fixing:
[19:41:30] <Tom_itx> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/rigol-ds1052e-5-6-tft-lcd-50mhz-2-channel-digital-color-storage-oscilloscope-30573
[19:41:31] <ssi> http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-TDS-420A-TDS420A-scope-NIST-calibrated-/400085919184?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item5d26faa5d0#ht_1175wt_1141
[19:41:55] <alex4nder> ssi: that's a ridiculous price though
[19:42:05] <ssi> yep
[19:42:16] <ssi> however, http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-TDS-420-Four-Channel-Digitizing-Oscilloscope-/220636415707?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item335ef486db#ht_7037wt_907
[19:42:20] <ssi> that's not, if it's in guaranteed working condition
[19:42:31] <alex4nder> yah
[19:42:51] <alex4nder> I have a 465B which is currently dead, and a TDS2024b
[19:42:53] <Tom_itx> you spend that much on beer in the last 6 months
[19:43:18] <ssi> with those digital scopes, you can be reasonably well assured that if it passes POST, it's probably fine
[19:43:20] <alex4nder> Tom_itx: there are XBox 360s that need to be purchased with that money.
[19:43:39] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you have that rigol ?
[19:43:47] <alex4nder> there is no time for tools.. L.A. Noire needs to be played.
[19:44:02] <Tom_itx> no but i know several guys that have recently gotten them
[19:44:19] <alex4nder> Jymmm: I know a bunch of people with those Rigols, and they like them a lot.
[19:44:21] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser in #avr for one
[19:44:38] <alex4nder> granted, it's definitely on the low end of scopes.. but it also doesn't cost as much as your car.
[19:44:41] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: from DX ?
[19:44:45] <Tom_itx> yes
[19:44:47] <Jymmm> k
[19:44:54] <Tom_itx> it's cheap but they all seem to like it
[19:45:12] <Tom_itx> there was a hack to turn it into 100Mhz but i'm not suggesting that
[19:45:24] <Jymmm> I'll RTFm for it later
[19:46:13] <Jymmm> I guess it's autoswitching 110/220
[19:46:17] <Tom_itx> It's the same scope, but i didn't buy it there
[19:46:17] <Tom_itx> <Steffanx> I didn't trust the 'registered' air mail and I couldn't wait 2-3 weeks
[19:46:18] <Tom_itx> <Steffanx> I bought it from an 'official rigol reseller' with some discount
[19:47:09] <Tom_itx> Chinese manual
[19:47:11] <Tom_itx> haha
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[19:50:46] <Tom_itx> <Steffanx> A DSO is so much easier. I love the auto measure and run/stop mode
[19:51:07] <Tom_itx> Digital filtering is also a nice function
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[19:55:11] <KimK> skunkworks: If you're turning the spindle on in HAL you can turn it off in HAL. If you're not turning the spindle on in HAL, well, I don't know what to tell you.
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[19:58:38] <KimK> skunkworks: And yes, what you're doing is a good idea, I do that all the time in my setups. You should be able to go M3 -> M19 -> M4 -> M19 -> M3 without breaking anything.
[20:04:07] <KimK> Oops, maybe I should have said skunkworks_
[20:12:02] <JT-Shop> anyone know what this means PARPORT: linux parport parport0 does not support mode 4.
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[20:13:15] <cradek> http://www.google.com/search?q=parport0+does+not+support+mode+4
[20:15:53] <Jymmm> http://www.beyondlogic.org/spp/parallel.htm
[20:16:13] <cradek> (means linux says EPP is not supported by the port. sometimes linux is wrong, so it's just a warning in later emc versions)
[20:16:22] <Jymmm> but doesnt say what modes are what
[20:19:23] <skunkworks_> huh - our z scaling is off about .011 off over 7 inches
[20:19:50] <skunkworks_> probes are great. y (which we could count the gearing is right on)
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[20:23:16] <skunkworks_> hmm - so can I just do a 51612.8/6.9887=x/7?
[20:24:20] <cradek> how did you measure it?
[20:24:58] <cradek> heh 51612.8/inch is your scale?
[20:25:09] <skunkworks_> a guage block against the faceplate
[20:25:15] <skunkworks_> 7.0000
[20:25:21] <skunkworks_> yes
[20:26:27] <skunkworks_> that doesn't seem right - the scale is larger doing the math above. I would think the scale would be smaller
[20:26:54] <cradek> it should be moving farther?
[20:27:05] <skunkworks_> heh
[20:27:17] <skunkworks_> the measurement is short
[20:27:41] <cradek> hell I bet you can get it right in no more than two tries
[20:27:43] <skunkworks_> touch off face plate - zero z. move to the top of the face plate - probe
[20:27:49] <skunkworks_> hhe
[20:27:51] <skunkworks_> heh
[20:28:05] <skunkworks_> that made no sense. let me say that again
[20:28:05] <cradek> did you stick the gage block in your armpit for a while and try again?
[20:28:35] <cradek> so if you command a move of 6.9887 it would move too far (7 inches)
[20:28:46] <skunkworks_> probe face plate - zero z - move to the top of the gauge block - probe top of guage block. measure 6.9887
[20:28:51] <cradek> I agree the scale should be smaller since it should move fewer counts
[20:29:11] <skunkworks_> z shows 6.9887
[20:29:14] <cradek> 51529.4821
[20:29:26] <cradek> an extremely silly number
[20:29:31] <skunkworks_> yes
[20:29:42] <cradek> 4822
[20:30:45] <skunkworks_> lets see.
[20:31:02] <cradek> 51529 is a square
[20:31:32] <cradek> 5153 is prime
[20:32:52] <cradek> what's the encoder on Z?
[20:33:27] <JT-Shop> his parallel port gives out a constant 5v no matter what, could that be related to the error message?
[20:34:00] <cradek> is he trying to use epp?
[20:34:55] <skunkworks_> cradek: 7.0001
[20:34:57] <JT-Shop> I think so, something about a pluto board too... Failed to communicate with pluto-servo board after programming firmware.
[20:35:14] <cradek> why do people keep buying those things!?
[20:35:19] <skunkworks_> cradek: with 51529.4822
[20:35:32] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/id,9982/catid,16/limit,6/limitstart,0/lang,english/
[20:35:34] <cradek> skunkworks_: what's the encoder?
[20:36:49] <JT-Shop> I don't see a pluto board in his hal file it is just a stepconf generated file
[20:37:00] <PCW> JT-Shop Ive looked at that thread and I dont think that EMC even loads (rtai math unloaded)
[20:37:55] <cradek> JT-Shop: but stepconf doesn't do pluto or any EPP board - I'm confused
[20:38:03] <JT-Shop> me too!
[20:40:15] <skunkworks_> cradek: 2540 line - 10160
[20:41:37] <JT-Shop> I think he is more confused than we are about what he is doing...
[20:42:04] <JT-Shop> thanks for looking at it
[20:44:23] <cradek> skunkworks_: do you know any other ratios in there for sure?
[20:45:18] <skunkworks_> none - other than the lead screw is 3tpi - let me see - dad did take the other table apart. I could see if I could actually count the gears
[20:45:33] <cradek> it would be nice to know the real scale
[20:46:03] <cradek> it's gotta be rational, right? or could there be a pi in it?
[20:47:19] <skunkworks_> I don't think so - it is a right angle gearbox and then a few after that spinning the nut
[20:47:37] <andypugh> a gear ratio has to be a ratio of integers.
[20:48:14] <archivist_emc> a single pair yes
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[20:49:38] <cradek> with the linear scales it had, they didn't care one bit about the ratio, did they
[20:50:18] <andypugh> archivist: Multiple pairs are the ratio of the products of the gears, and the product of integers is integer.
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[20:51:53] <cradek> yes so if the screw is integer turns per inch (not rack and pinion etc), seems like the scale should be rational
[20:52:12] <PCW> 1.6905997 is the gear ratio
[20:52:14] <skunkworks_> ok - I think I have found all the gears - now I will count them -- give me 20
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[20:53:48] <cradek> PCW: sure but there should be some nice integers?
[20:54:38] <archivist_emc> what with a 3 tpi leadscrew
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[20:55:27] <archivist_emc> and with a deliberate creeping gear ratio for wear reduction could be well silly
[20:55:36] <PCW> Yeah counting is best, but is there some process to find likely ratios?
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[20:57:55] <cradek> good question
[20:59:47] <andypugh> Factoring numbers is the basis of cryptography. So probably non-trivial.
[21:00:23] <andypugh> (Not all cryptography)
[21:00:37] <PCW> But tooth counts are pretty small
[21:01:15] <andypugh> and not necessarily prime. But I am saying that there is no analytical method, just trial and error.
[21:02:07] <PCW> and it would be harder still if its a product of ratios
[21:21:14] <skunkworks_> ok - there is a right angle set of gears - servo -> 55 teeth ->49 teeth - that is on a shaft with another 49 tooth gear driving the nut gear of 93 teeth
[21:25:21] <skunkworks_> I get 51538.81
[21:28:09] <archivist_emc> 1.690909091 51538.909090909
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[21:28:56] <archivist_emc> luvly number
[21:29:21] <skunkworks_> ?
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[21:47:54] <skunkworks_> that number can't be right
[21:48:20] <skunkworks_> cradek number is right on.. pretty much. but mine is off
[21:48:25] <archivist_emc> 93/55 is 1.69090909090909 recurring sure it can be right
[21:49:57] <skunkworks_> huh - so - when I did (55/49)*(49/93) is wrong?
[21:52:25] <archivist_emc> 49 is just an idler, it inverts the rotation I ignored
[21:53:19] <archivist_emc> 49/49 is 1
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[21:55:31] <JT-Shop> I think I solved his problem from this last response "I must admit I've only read about half of it. Thanx for the info, I guess it's time to RTFM! "
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[21:55:56] <JT-Shop> referring to the Getting Started Guide
[21:55:57] <skunkworks_> hmm - but cradek's is more correct. I get 51538.90909 which measures .0012ish off. 51529.4822 measures right on.
[21:56:04] <archivist_emc> are you really sure the lead screw is 3 tpi
[21:56:28] * JT-Shop has an ale to celebrate
[21:56:29] <skunkworks_> I would have to measure again
[21:57:09] <archivist_emc> or are you working on a worn part of the screw
[21:57:40] <KimK> The lead screw is probably 2.9999 TPI, ot 3.0001 TPI, or more likely, both!
[21:58:08] <skunkworks_> could be - the scales are what the original control used.
[21:58:10] <KimK> s/ ot / or /
[21:59:08] <archivist_emc> maybe you need to measure every inch to find the screw accuracy
[21:59:43] <KimK> Well, Sam, how can we cobble together a laser interferometer from eBay parts, lol!
[22:00:04] <archivist_emc> after I win one first KimK :)
[22:00:06] <skunkworks_> it is a preloaded huge ball screw - I would guess it is pretty consistant over the whole range
[22:00:12] <KimK> Hahaha!
[22:01:04] <KimK> Everybody wants a budget-priced laser interferometer
[22:01:16] <skunkworks_> I remember someone talking about the old controls used ball screws that where longer or shorter than actual - so that they could offset the error only in one direction
[22:01:25] <archivist_emc> yup, there would be a market for them
[22:01:35] <KimK> I'll take some of that hamburger-priced steak too, while you're at it
[22:03:11] <KimK> skunkworks: Oh really? That's interesting. I guess they'd know which way their error is likely to be then. Interesting what you can do with an unlimited budget, lol.
[22:04:47] <skunkworks_> I think stuart was talking about that
[22:09:19] <KimK> skunkworks: Do you have a long digital caliper or something to make an initial check measurement? If you can rotate index pulse to index pulse, maybe that will tell us something?
[22:10:08] <KimK> One motor rotation equals x.xxx inches?
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[22:10:58] <KimK> You could check it at different points, but always index-to-index.
[22:15:35] <archivist_emc> KimK, http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1381543/laser_interferometer_homemade_for_20/
[22:29:05] <KimK> archivist_emc: Interesting, thanks. It would take some fiddling around, but might be worth it. Also, I remember reading that HP used two different type lasers (I think red and IR, but could have been two visible colors) in order to cancel out some errors. I'll have to see if I can still find that article.
[22:29:57] <skunkworks_> the difference between calculated and actuall is only .00017 per inch... - aprox 9 counts.
[22:31:23] <skunkworks_> so I don't even have an easy way to measure the other z lead screw.
[22:32:15] <skunkworks_> that is .004 over 24 inches
[22:39:34] <archivist_emc> KimK, we only need to thing of a fringe reading method, something like a scanner ccd or webcam ccd
[22:39:40] <archivist_emc> think
[22:39:59] <PCW> Probably within the lead screw specs...
[22:44:24] <skunkworks_> y measures long by .0007
[22:44:33] <skunkworks_> over 7 inches
[22:45:20] <archivist_emc> KimK, ebay item 330575676764 im the wrong side of the pond
[22:47:58] <KimK> archivist_emc: I also spotted this one at the same place, shows great potential, unfortunately it's in Spanish: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4476548/interferometer/#
[22:48:14] <KimK> archivist_emc: Thanks, I'll look at the eBay one
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[22:54:21] <skunkworks_> .0002 over 14 inches good enough?
[22:54:24] <skunkworks_> ;)
[22:55:28] <KimK> skunkworks_: Yes, I
[22:55:31] <KimK> Oops
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[22:56:15] <KimK> skunkworks_: Yes, I'd say that's pretty good. Accupins, Shmaccupins!
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[22:57:35] <KimK> skunkworks_: So where does that leave us?
[22:57:43] <PCW> skunkworks has gone probe crazy
[22:59:23] <alex4nder> woot, Taig mill ordered.
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[23:01:32] <mikegg> hey fellas
[23:02:21] <skunkworks_> probe crazy!!!!!
[23:02:27] <JT-Shop> anyone know where to get Al-Elko 220uf 385v~ caps with 0.375 lead spacing
[23:03:04] <skunkworks_> KimK: I think - closer than I was...
[23:03:24] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: sorry, 375V is a little much
[23:03:51] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: you could get them from the mall over there the drive is Siemens
[23:04:48] <Loetmichel> in germany i would say: use some Elkos from old on-wal-cameras with Flash
[23:05:05] <Loetmichel> they should have a 220+330f 400V dc
[23:05:17] <Loetmichel> 220-330uF
[23:05:22] <JT-Shop> don't want old caps, I have them now :)
[23:05:28] <Loetmichel> ok
[23:05:44] <Loetmichel> te cameras are not really old.
[23:05:49] <JT-Shop> I need new caps these are 95'
[23:05:54] <Loetmichel> i meant the one-way-cameras
[23:06:06] <Loetmichel> 36 Pictures, tehn dismantled
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[23:08:27] <Tom_itx> thru hole or chassi mount?
[23:09:11] <JT-Shop> thru hole soldered on
[23:09:28] <Tom_L> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Selection
[23:09:41] <atom1> take your pick
[23:12:03] <PCW> Sure they are not 10 mm lead spacing? that seems common
[23:12:37] <Tom_itx> well that search paste sure sucked
[23:12:42] <JT-Shop> they might be 10mm
[23:12:44] <JT-Shop> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&site=us&keywords=EETED2W221DA&x=15&y=17
[23:12:52] <JT-Shop> this seems to be close
[23:14:37] <JT-Shop> does the voltage matter as long as it is equal or higher than original ones
[23:14:49] <Tom_itx> not so much
[23:15:01] <PCW> Equal or higher is fine
[23:15:08] <Tom_itx> ESR might matter
[23:15:16] <PCW> Look for good ripple current rating
[23:15:24] <JT-Shop> what is good?
[23:15:35] <JT-Shop> 1.42A?
[23:16:34] <JT-Shop> I can't find a spec sheet on the old ones Al-Elko B43502-S0227-M1
[23:16:48] <PCW> yeah that seems to be towards the top
[23:16:56] <Tom_L> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitors#Ripple_current
[23:17:37] <JT-Shop> top is good or bad?
[23:17:54] <Tom_L> i think you want a lower ripple current
[23:18:11] <PCW> good
[23:18:40] <JT-Shop> it does physically match the original ones :)
[23:18:53] <Tom_L> doesn't matter really
[23:19:00] <PCW> ripple current is a maximum rating (high ripple current means low ESR)
[23:19:43] <Tom_L> what's it going on?
[23:20:08] <PCW> Its how much current the the capacitor can absorb and deliver without overheating
[23:20:18] <JT-Shop> my Siemens Simodrive 611 E/R module (power supply) is weak
[23:21:09] <PCW> It must have some bigger electrolytics as well
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[23:21:52] <skunkworks_> anyone know the wall thickness of a T size oxygen cylinder?
[23:22:08] <JT-Shop> it has 3 of these on each scr (I think it is an scr) and two more thinner taller ones
[23:22:57] <JT-Shop> skunkworks_: I do know that the wall thickness can be thicker (I asked the gas lady once why this one was so heavy)
[23:24:52] <skunkworks_> yah - we have co2 cylinder we cut up - it is about .23-.35ish. (isn't consistant around the diameter.) but I need around .375
[23:25:14] <Tom_L> making a cannon?
[23:25:23] <skunkworks_> heh
[23:25:24] <skunkworks_> no
[23:25:32] <Tom_L> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_cylinder
[23:25:35] <Tom_L> T isn't listed
[23:25:40] <Tom_L> neither is the wall thickness
[23:26:11] <jdhNC> there's no such thing as a 't' really (or K or whatever) it was just out of soem old catalog
[23:26:15] <JT-Shop> the spindle drive part has about 20 C battery sized caps in it
[23:26:44] <skunkworks_> it is really old
[23:27:01] * Tom_L likes JT-Shop's method of sizing precision electronic parts
[23:27:37] <JT-Shop> I'm looking through the grates, so calibrated eyeball is best I can use ATM
[23:27:51] <JT-Shop> about 95' or so
[23:28:30] <jdhNC> the spec should be DOT3AA or something like that
[23:28:55] <JT-Shop> skunkworks_: what are you making?
[23:29:27] <skunkworks_> larger stirling engine
[23:31:26] <JT-Shop> I have some 8.75" with 0.300" wall slurry pipe
[23:31:34] <JT-Shop> 8.75 OD
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[23:32:20] <skunkworks_> that is about what I need.
[23:33:09] <JT-Shop> I have two pieces 78" long
[23:33:15] <skunkworks_> I need to be able to mill about a 2.4" flat on it with out it going through
[23:33:28] <JT-Shop> leftover from making robot pedestals
[23:33:53] <skunkworks_> heh - now much and how much to ship it?
[23:34:03] <skunkworks_> I only need a foot of it or so
[23:36:25] <JT-Shop> on that pipe a 2.4" flat leaves a 0.132 wall thickness
[23:37:13] <skunkworks_> yes - that will work
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[23:38:48] <Tom_L> JT-Shop why do you check halui.machine.is-on in the coolant code?
[23:39:14] <JT-Shop> you will get an error if you don't
[23:39:20] <Tom_L> i modded it for the spindle and it does strange things
[23:39:36] <JT-Shop> skunkworks_: a 12" piece would weight about 28 lbs
[23:39:54] <Tom_L> you push the machine power button and the spindle comes on
[23:40:35] <JT-Shop> if I have the density right at 0.28 pounds per cubic inch
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[23:57:37] <Tom_L> ok i removed the and2 and stuffed the input into the or2 instead
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[23:59:49] <Tom_L> err toggle i mean