#emc | Logs for 2011-06-12

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[00:02:31] <ve7it> aggrav8d, I would try cutting one here, but its too big for my machine... I am limited to about 8x8" try http://pastebin.com/LjjB7sjk
[00:03:40] <ve7it> I could always cut it in metric mode.... would be about the size of a dime!
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[00:25:22] <aggrav8d> ve7it - i made the same changes downstairs. all g1 f20 x.... cleaned up.
[00:25:42] <aggrav8d> so no incorrect g0 or g1 any more.
[00:26:28] <aggrav8d> but arcs are still wrong in exactly the same way. this time I also tried to offset the cut from the origin in case it had something to do with the mechanics being funny near 0,0. same results, same mistakes.
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[00:28:04] <aggrav8d> i even tried re-ordering the cuts in cambam to produce different sequence of events and i get the same errors.
[00:28:41] <Tom_itx> you can't adjust the post in cambam?
[00:29:42] <Tom_itx> although that really doesn't sound like a post problem
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[00:32:40] <aggrav8d> the post?
[00:33:10] <Tom_itx> post processor that converts your cad to g code for a particular machine
[00:33:35] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, you probably never thought you'd hear me say it, but that seems expensive for a NAS box
[00:34:16] <SWPadnos> though it does include drives, so it's not as bad as it seemed at first
[00:34:18] <aggrav8d> when i tell cambam to instance things it doesn't write out a loop with offsets, it duplicates the gcode with unique absolute coordinates for each instance. their idea of post is to let me edit the gcode text file myself.
[00:34:40] <Tom_itx> heh
[00:34:55] <Tom_itx> all i use is smartcam since i have it
[00:36:37] <aggrav8d> can i get a trial copy of smartcam?
[00:36:53] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[00:37:07] <Tom_itx> it's got a new look since i got it years ago
[00:37:16] <Tom_itx> quite similar to mastercam
[00:37:27] <Tom_itx> it was ~8K back then
[00:38:31] <aggrav8d> ouch!
[00:38:45] <Tom_itx> it paid for itself in a year
[00:39:57] <Tom_itx> http://www.smartcamcnc.com/
[00:45:07] <aggrav8d> i would love to do that. so far i've sunk about $6k into this machine, not counting working hours and lost productivity, and i'm still getting basic issues like this Y axis problem.
[00:45:20] <aggrav8d> (I'm still pretty sure that it's y-axis related, somehow.)
[00:45:55] <Tom_itx> i haven't used cambam but i've heard it's ok
[00:48:26] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Then how about ESXi + FreeNAS ?
[00:48:39] <Jymmm> =)
[00:48:48] <SWPadnos> no idea :)
[00:49:10] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: No, I mean that's what I'm going to do... run VM's on it + NAS
[00:49:23] <SWPadnos> it seems that a NAS box shouldn't need a nice case or keyboard, and onboard video is also fine (though the video card is cheap)
[00:49:27] <SWPadnos> ah
[00:49:52] <SWPadnos> the CPU and motherboard are fine, though I'd probably go with an AMD (I'm just that way)
[00:50:00] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, I don't do intensive graphics (never have)
[00:50:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: It was based on Friday's Frys ad.
[00:50:25] <SWPadnos> yeah, that's why a $100 motherboard with integrated graphics is probably fine
[00:50:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: 8 SATA ports
[00:50:39] <SWPadnos> plus a $150 CPU 6-core XPU
[00:50:43] <SWPadnos> yeah, so
[00:50:45] <SWPadnos> ?
[00:51:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: It has 7 drives right now.
[00:51:26] <SWPadnos> I didn't see an SSD or "boot drive" on the list
[00:51:36] <Jymmm> I laready had them
[00:51:47] <Jymmm> no SSD (too expensive)
[00:52:09] <SWPadnos> ok. just pointing out that the parts list only had 6 drives
[00:52:17] <Jymmm> I'm going to RAID1 the system drives
[00:52:35] <Jymmm> RAID5 (ZFS) the data drives
[00:57:10] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOi51ogqels
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[01:08:00] <aggrav8d> does anyone else have some idea what's going wrong with my cuts?
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[01:28:52] <KimK> skunkworks: Nice job on the probe install and probing video, congrats!
[01:29:18] <KimK> aggrav8d: I just got here, scrolled back and read, I'm going to look at the pictures now.
[01:29:34] <cradek> skunkworks_: excellent!
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[01:31:38] <KimK> aggrav8d: What's with the random goofy little stubs shown in http://image.bayimg.com/oaidbaadj.jpg ? Are those really there?
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[01:33:06] <cradek> skunkworks_: that probe routine is by far the most precise way I have to measure inside diameters in my shop
[01:33:29] <cradek> considering your machine's probably as tight as mine, the same may be true for you
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[01:53:33] <KimK> aggrav8d: Your gcode runs very well in sim, just a couple of minor anomalies, no big deal.
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[01:56:19] <KimK> aggrav8d: Just from left field here, have you tried running the same code in the same way, only with pen and paper and the router off? (I was wondering about noise/RFI/EMI/etc.?)
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[02:05:54] <aggrav8d> kimk - yes, they're there. cambam mistakes.
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[02:06:28] <aggrav8d> i can try that. i don't really have a pen holder but maybe I can rig something.
[02:07:03] <aggrav8d> i don't see why it would be EMF - it's the exact same mistake every time.
[02:07:37] <aggrav8d> what are the odds? Also, it doesn't happen in the same spot on each circle - the start and end are wrong, but that start and end aren't always at the same orientation relative to the center of the circle
[02:07:38] <KimK> Oh, it is? OK, I missed that part, sorry. Well, I did say it was a guess, lol.
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[02:08:52] <KimK> It looks good here in sim. What does it look like there when it goes "off the rails"?
[02:09:21] <KimK> I'm talking about on the AxisUI screen, I mean.
[02:10:30] <KimK> Does the axis display say, "Nothing to see here. Move along."?
[02:18:59] <aggrav8d> it looks correct in AXIS UI
[02:20:37] <skunkworks_> KimK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOi51ogqels&feature=youtu.be
[02:20:50] <KimK> Everything looks normal on the display, yet it's going off track in exactly the same way and exactly the same place each time?
[02:21:53] <KimK> skunkworks: Hi Sam! Your probing video? Yes, I saw it, nice! And the probe is from eBay?
[02:23:14] <KimK> aggrav8d: Let me go run it again in sim.
[02:23:15] <skunkworks_> yes - $50
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[02:24:52] <aggrav8d> kimk - yes, exactly the same way.
[02:25:03] <aggrav8d> regardless of starting point on the table.
[02:26:09] <KimK> skunkworks: Is the same guy making and selling the same probe(s), or was this a lucky one-off?
[02:26:51] <skunkworks_> lucky one off
[02:27:08] <skunkworks_> this is some sort of china rensishaw knock off
[02:27:20] <skunkworks_> seems to be made pretty well
[02:29:27] <aggrav8d> kimk - any ideas? :(
[02:32:27] <KimK> aggrav8d: Still thinking it over. Let me see if the 2nd run through sim reveals anything. Have you put a dial indicator anywhere (I think you suspected Y?) to see if you're losing steps?
[02:32:41] <aggrav8d> i dont' have a dial indicator.
[02:32:57] <aggrav8d> i mark the origin at the start of the cut, and at the end return to it and there's no offset.
[02:33:37] <KimK> OK. Is this origin at a point where no material has been removed?
[02:33:42] <aggrav8d> yes
[02:37:09] <aggrav8d> bbl, dinner.
[02:38:12] <KimK> OK, I'll look for you back later. When you get back, the "off the rails" error is how much, would you say? And the return-to-origin-error you are able to visually estimate to within how much, would you say?
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[02:48:33] <KimK> aggrav8d: I guess an important question I should ask is, do you know at what point in the program the error occurs?
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[03:43:59] <KimK> aggrav8d: I just noticed something else. If I look at your middle picture ( http://imgur.com/a/I8B1r#Nj9gR ), it appears to me that there is generally, throughout all the picture, a tighter, cleaner groove nearer the top, and the grooves (all of them, everywhere) get wider or fuzzier as you go nearer the bottom. This seems especially clear to me in the two outer circles. This almost suggests that Y is "looser"(?) when cutting near the bottom? Coul
[03:43:59] <KimK> d this be so?
[03:44:21] <KimK> Oops. I need that character counter, lol.
[03:55:20] <archivist_emc> duplicated arcs are in the gcode line 95 on then 99 on
[03:56:05] <archivist_emc> other error seems mechanical, iirc this is a new home made machine
[04:07:57] <KimK> Thanks for reporting this. I did notice the "twice around", except in my listing it's at 104-111. Also at 205 I saw a "sneaky feed", should have been up, rapid, down; but it was short/small, and on or near the 2nd biggest circle, so it's hard to notice. But all-in-all, nothing serious.
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[04:12:39] <KimK> archivist_emc: Did you happen to look at the picture above, 4-5 lines back? Do you think that's just a lighting artifact, or do you think it's really "tighter" at the top and "looser" at the bottom?
[04:14:14] <archivist_emc> pictures are not that distinct, I just noticed that circle ends in the middle dont meet properly as well as the edge ones
[04:15:11] <archivist_emc> but no general step loss, I would go with a tightening of a slide then a sudden shift
[04:15:50] <archivist_emc> iirc this machine has chain drive either side of a gantry
[04:17:37] <archivist_emc> and I bet there will be a regular ish noise if its traversed in a particular direction
[04:18:07] <KimK> OK, thanks, we can ask about that.
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[06:09:47] <aggrav8d> kink - the table isn't perfectly level yet, which causes a variation in line quality.
[06:09:59] <aggrav8d> there is no return-to-origin error.
[06:10:29] <KimK> OK. Thanks, just checking.
[06:11:35] <aggrav8d> i'll 2x check that in the morning.
[06:14:30] <KimK> I'm working on another test, but I won't have anything for you until the morning either.
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[06:17:06] <aggrav8d> i just 2x checked, cambam doesn't deliberately hobble my code - so it's just a bug those g1s weren't at the correct rapid height.
[06:17:19] <aggrav8d> which is very worrying...
[06:18:34] <KimK> Those? Did I miss one? I only spotted the one at 205.
[06:19:10] <KimK> There was a note in the code that it had been hand-edited, though.
[06:21:10] <aggrav8d> that was someone else's version, and i had done the same while AFK.
[06:21:37] <aggrav8d> (my cnc computer is not on the network, and i did the changes at the machine.)
[06:21:44] <aggrav8d> gtg zzz
[06:24:26] <KimK> OK, goodnight, maybe see you here tomorrow
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[13:26:50] <elmo401> aggrav8d: there is so much to repair with that code
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[15:11:36] <aggrav8d> elmo - oh?
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[15:46:27] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cncbrain/72401-cncbrain_users-16.html
[15:59:41] * JT-Shop wonders how high a DC voltage a Fluke 75 can measure without blowing up???
[16:01:07] <Tom_itx> it would probably error out first
[16:01:10] <JT-Shop> hmm this page says 600V
[16:01:41] <JT-Shop> the DC buss is supposed to be 600v on the simodrive 611
[16:01:51] <Tom_itx> not suitable for transmission lines
[16:02:27] <Tom_itx> use a cheap disposable meter if you're not sure
[16:02:33] <JT-Shop> I guess if it blows up I can get a Fluke 77 it takes 1000v
[16:02:43] <Tom_itx> really?
[16:02:45] <KimK> JT-Shop: Flukes are high quality, I'll bet it's marked right on the front panel, near the jacks
[16:02:46] <Tom_itx> i got a 77
[16:02:47] <fragalot> JT-Shop: so go with the 77 first?
[16:03:08] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: can I borrow your 77?
[16:03:08] <fragalot> always leave a margin, if you want to measure 600V and the 75 bugs out at 600V... don't use the 75.
[16:03:13] <fragalot> oh
[16:03:14] <Tom_itx> sure
[16:03:19] <fragalot> thought you had one :P
[16:03:35] <JT-Shop> says 1000vdc
[16:03:42] <JT-Shop> 750ac
[16:03:49] <JT-Shop> so I'm good
[16:04:03] <JT-Shop> and yes it was under the jacks :)
[16:05:04] <Tom_itx> damn sure is
[16:05:10] <Tom_itx> i never noticed that before
[16:05:19] <JT-Shop> I didn't either
[16:05:25] <KimK> Fluke thinks of stuff like that. Or they're following a good standard. Either way, that's why they're a little more money. (Yes, plus a little "brand bragging", lol)
[16:05:46] <JT-Shop> I've had this one for a long time
[16:05:50] <Tom_itx> but then the jacks are always covering it
[16:12:03] <aggrav8d> elmo - what was wrong with the file?
[16:12:17] <KimK> Another thing Fluke does that I like is they (usually? I can't speak for all their models) put a 600V fuse in series with a 250V 3AG or 5x20mm fuse on the test leads. That way if you do something only moderately stupid you only lose a cheap fuse. But if you do something *really* stupid, like check Ohms on a 480VAC line, a much more expensive 600V fuse might literally save your life.
[16:13:19] <cradek> wow that would be much stupider than the usual stupid
[16:14:30] <KimK> Yes, it would be, and it's nice to know that Fluke thought of that. I don't want to know how they thought of it, though. I heard one story like that and that was enough.
[16:14:59] <archivist_emc> fuses blow on current not voltage
[16:15:51] <KimK> Yes, but the terrifying thing is that a fuse operated above it's voltage rating may not be able to interrupt the current.
[16:16:46] <KimK> This is especially true on "unlimited energy" systems like electrical distribution panels.
[16:17:18] <KimK> (At least "unlimited" compared to a mere human).
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[16:18:12] <Jymmmm> KimK: Let someone walk across a shag rug then touch you and then lets see if you think the same way =)
[16:18:25] <KimK> Anyway, I'm always glad to have a Fluke handy.
[16:20:55] <JT-Shop> well I didn't learn anything from that experiment...
[16:21:02] <KimK> Jymmmm: ...shuffle, shuffle, shuffle... ZAP! Hey, Jymmmm, you're charged up too, wearing an extra "m" for Sunday?
[16:21:44] <Jymmmm> heh
[16:26:16] <JT-Shop> anyone know of a siemens repair place that you would recommend in the US?
[16:26:36] <Tom_itx> what is it?
[16:26:48] <KimK> JT-Shop: Spindle drive trouble again, JT?
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[16:26:56] <JT-Shop> KimK: still
[16:27:12] <JT-Shop> simodrive 611 E/R module
[16:27:31] <KimK> Remind me, what's the trouble?
[16:28:35] <JT-Shop> the drive drops out if I try and go from 0->2500 rpm, I can step it up to 6k and after a few hours of running hard then rapid Z up will also trip the drive out
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[16:29:29] <KimK> Does the drive have a ramp? (soft accel/decel?)
[16:30:03] <JT-Shop> the spindle module?
[16:30:12] <archivist_emc> is the drive protecting itself from a faulty motor
[16:31:38] <KimK> What's your line voltage and format there?
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[16:33:26] <JT-Shop> 240v 3phase phase converter and the lathe runs off the same phase converter
[16:33:29] <Tom_itx> maybe you should get the power company to put a line monitor on your mains for a week or so
[16:33:51] <Tom_itx> they did that for my friends new shop because they didn't want to be liable for all the equipment inside
[16:33:55] <JT-Shop> drift, kp, tn, n, drift, t kp ,tn, ad are the adjustments
[16:34:08] <andypugh> Anyone ever tried "digging" a hole on a lathe with a boring tool. ie, not drilling a starter hole?
[16:34:32] <Tom_itx> it's not the best approacy
[16:34:33] <Tom_itx> h
[16:34:35] <cradek> I've done it for very shallow
[16:34:41] <cradek> yeah it doesn't work well
[16:34:52] <JT-Shop> I've actually done that by accident for a little bit
[16:34:53] <cradek> obviously the problem is that the center isn't moving so it doesn't cut
[16:34:54] <KimK> I saw a guy try that once. It didn't really work out so well.
[16:35:13] <JT-Shop> they make a tool that does that on purpose
[16:35:35] <andypugh> Slot-drills (and twist-drills) cope with the centre not moving..
[16:35:56] <archivist_emc> andypugh, it digs it, unless you have rear support
[16:35:58] <JT-Shop> this was a drilling/boring/facing all in one tool
[16:36:12] <Tom_itx> sounds expensive
[16:36:45] <andypugh> Just trying to avoid a tool-change
[16:36:54] <Tom_itx> call me lazy
[16:37:12] <JT-Shop> that the oil scoop?
[16:38:03] <andypugh> Well, two actually. I want a 12mm dia hole with a flat bottom and a radius. So drill then slot-drill then boring bar...
[16:38:25] <Tom_itx> plunge it with a bull nose mill
[16:38:35] <andypugh> Yes, oil scoop. I will probably make half a dozen, so I am thinking of ways to do it efficiently.
[16:38:58] <JT-Shop> send the print to Rob :)
[16:39:21] <JT-Shop> he can do it on the SuperSlant
[16:39:34] <andypugh> I don't want to buy a tool just for this job, as I have no other use for a 12mm milling tool with a 1.5mm radius.
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[16:39:51] <Tom_itx> not yet
[16:40:15] <andypugh> I wouldn't even know where to get one from.
[16:40:56] <andypugh> (I would have had them all finished with my lathe macros by now, if I had started yet)
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[16:43:58] <andypugh> OK, I found them. £80 is over the budget :-)
[16:44:02] <JT-Shop> couldn't you just use a smaller end mill and bore with that to get the radius and flat bottom
[16:44:16] <JT-Shop> a center cutting endmill
[16:44:28] <Tom_itx> there must be a dozen ways to do it
[16:45:20] <andypugh> Hmm, JT's idea has the extra advantage of incorporating gross tool abuse. I like it.
[16:48:21] <JT-Shop> I should celebrate that by taking a nap...
[16:48:41] <aggrav8d> kimk - hello?
[16:49:03] <JT-Shop> dang door seals made a huge difference in the garage
[16:49:46] <KimK> Hi aggrav8d, I'm still working on your problem, nearing a solution. More news later.
[16:50:05] <andypugh> I have visions of a seal at each side of the door that only let folk in if they bring a fish. Like unusual door-men.
[16:51:00] <KimK> Much more entertaining than those big stone lions at public buildings.
[16:56:08] <andypugh> I wonder how hard it would be to compile EMC2-sim for MacOS?
[17:01:25] <Jymmmm> OSX is FreeBSD based
[17:02:07] <andypugh> Yes, I was expecting that many substitutions would have to be made for kernel macros.
[17:02:35] <Jymmmm> But, you could just run it as a virtual machine, or dual boot into it
[17:02:55] <andypugh> Aye, I have an EMC2 VM.
[17:03:33] <andypugh> Just booting it now, as ssh and screen sharing seem to be not working for some reason.
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[17:04:15] <andypugh> The drawback with MacOS and Ubuntu VMs and a UK keyboard is that there is no way to type a # character...
[17:04:36] <andypugh> So writing parametric G-code is painful.
[17:05:00] <Jymmmm> remap the keyboard within the VM
[17:05:46] <Jymmmm> or within ubuntu itself
[17:05:50] <andypugh> Yeah, that works. I just realised that I already did that :)
[17:06:11] <andypugh> I just need to remeber that it is shift-3 not alt-3.
[17:06:19] <andypugh> (As you were, nothing to see here...)
[17:06:37] <Jymmmm> it's all good.
[17:07:50] <KimK> andypugh: I sympathize, I've just finished going a few rounds with build errors on the French docs. I had to learn how to generate French quotation marks, left and right.
[17:08:11] <andypugh> Eeewww!
[17:10:12] <andypugh> “ is option-[ and ” is shift-option-] in OSX
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[17:26:16] <elmo401> aggrav8d: so many errors in the code... circles are not centred, some lines don't lift when needed, I don't think I see two circles the same diameter! I think it would be easier to make circle patterns in a grid with a CAD program then import it into HeeksCNC.
[17:29:16] <elmo401> aggrav8d: what is the dia of the inside circles? and the outside two circles?
[17:30:27] <KimK> elmo401, aggrav8d: I'm working on some new code, almost done, just a little more debugging.
[17:30:50] <elmo401> KimK: what are the circle diameters>
[17:30:51] <elmo401> ?
[17:32:46] <KimK> elmo401: I think around 3", give or take, but I wanted to be able to adjust them, so: #<_radius>
[17:33:01] <elmo401> then how did you do the larger circles?
[17:35:46] <KimK> The inner large one is radius-self-adjusting due to geometry. On the outer large one, I couldn't see any geometric relation, so I added a fudge factor. I also cheated by simplifying on the outer circles.
[17:36:22] <KimK> s/outer circles/outer small circles/
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[18:07:56] <aggrav8d> elmo - looking it up.
[18:09:03] <aggrav8d> smaller circles are 4" ea, outer two are 9.625 and 12.741
[18:10:18] <aggrav8d> sorry, 9.615.
[18:11:11] <aggrav8d> i have a newer version where the circles are centered. the point isn't that they're uncentered, it's that the machine cuts some circles and doesn't do it right, then cuts other (larger) circles and does them perfectly. wtf.
[18:12:25] <aggrav8d> vectric aspire did way better at lining up the circles, but then it wouldn't let me engrave along the line. I had to set up inner and outer borders, then tell it to route out the interior.
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[18:18:37] <KimK> aggrav8d, elmo401: Try this version. It has some disadvantages (recuts a lot, some subroutine "dancing"), but it's mathematically cleaner and easily adjustable. Sorry about the missing trim circles near the outside, too much bother, lol! http://pastebin.com/BDGBEMiq
[18:19:18] <KimK> I called it my "phony" version
[18:23:58] <KimK> I stuck with the Z feed up even though Z rapid up should be OK, I thought maybe there were problems with Z rapiding.
[18:25:34] <KimK> Oops, I posted the version with the fixed values instead of the trig values, I'll fix it and re-post in a while.
[18:25:42] <KimK> It works though.
[18:27:27] <KimK> Just don't try to change the radius, lol. I'm fixing it now.
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[18:36:07] <aggrav8d> playing with vectric aspire, trying to figure out how to make it generate a toolpath and stay within a clipping region...
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[19:21:28] <aggrav8d> kimk - that's some very pretty code you wrote.
[19:21:41] <aggrav8d> it's very easy to grok.
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[19:23:21] <KimK> Thanks, I was trying to make a tool to help determine whether the problem was gcode or not, so I wanted some pretty solid code. Have you run it yet? What happened?
[19:24:24] <Gensor> anyone have a sanyo denki servo and multimeter handy?
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[19:26:25] <Jymmm> How many of you guys deal with ISO files on a regular basis?
[19:28:47] <KimK> I'd say I do. What do you need?
[19:29:33] <Gensor> do you know your ground and +5 encoder/hall wires?
[19:30:30] <Gensor> Black
[19:30:30] <Gensor> blue/white
[19:30:30] <Gensor> Blue
[19:30:30] <Gensor> Yellow/White
[19:30:30] <Gensor> Yellow
[19:30:30] <Gensor> Orange/White
[19:30:31] <Gensor> Orange
[19:30:31] <Gensor> Brown/White
[19:30:32] <Gensor> Brown
[19:30:32] <Gensor> Red/White
[19:30:33] <Gensor> Red
[19:30:33] <Gensor> Green
[19:30:34] <Gensor> Black
[19:30:34] <Gensor> Black/White
[19:30:51] <KimK> Ha, not without a Sanyo Denki Servo Manual. But I'll be happy to guess for you.
[19:31:03] * KimK shakes the Magic-8-Ball
[19:31:37] <KimK> Hmmm, "Outlook unclear, ask again later"
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[19:32:01] <Gensor> my red/white and black/white have continuity at about .5 ohm, I was hoping you could id these given this info
[19:32:37] <KimK> Let's ask our resident hall effect expert: andypugh, are you around?
[19:32:45] <awallin> Gensor: can you open up the back, might see something.. http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/resolver_and_hallsensors.jpg
[19:33:32] <KimK> Jymmm: So, what about ISOs?
[19:33:48] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjWUZ1v3oD0&NR=1 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxvzSNp-tPM&NR=1
[19:33:51] <Jymmm> http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/storage/hdenclose/8517
[19:33:56] <Gensor> I'll play a little more before I do that
[19:35:15] <andypugh> Sorry. What was the question ?
[19:35:38] <awallin> Gensor: check the bottom left pic here http://cgi.ebay.com/SANYO-DENKI-AC-Servo-Motor-BL-Super-P5-60W-/330555264082 looks like the rightmost red and black wires are thicker, so maybe +5V and GND ?
[19:35:56] <Jymmm> KimK: You got those links?
[19:36:35] <KimK> Yes, looking at the first one now. What should I be looking at i particular?
[19:37:12] <andypugh> That's tiny little servo. ~DOn't expect much from 60W
[19:37:14] <Jymmm> KimK: The enclosure mounts ISO's and emulates an optical drive that you can boot from.
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[19:37:34] <Jymmm> KimK: No more buring ISO's or trying to get them on thumbsticks
[19:37:54] <andypugh> I would be pretty sure that red/black are +5V / 0V
[19:38:02] <Jymmm> KimK: And switching ISO's is as easy as flipping the switch on the side of it.
[19:38:38] <andypugh> The colour - colour/white pairs will be differential pairs for the 3 hall channels and 3 encoder channels.
[19:39:34] <andypugh> Err, maybe not, as there is a red/white
[19:41:09] <Gensor> the first black is heavier gage, and there is a gap in the connector pin sequence between green and black which is odd
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[19:45:44] <andypugh> http://www.sanyodenki.biz/products/INSTRUCTIONMANUAL/ACservo/PY2/M0001584J(PY2)-E.pdf
[19:46:15] <andypugh> First step is to work out what model you have, it seems they might have some odd "wiring saved" pinout options.
[19:47:07] <awallin> andypugh: I've only seen single-ended hall-sensors. those usually require pull-ups. are there differential hall-signals also and how are they connected?
[19:47:31] <andypugh> I have no idea, sorry. All mine have been single-ended too.
[19:47:41] <awallin> ok, great.
[19:48:18] <awallin> I think some of the manuals were saying NC on the color/white for hall-signals, so they are single ended too probably
[19:49:32] <andypugh> DXS07 indicates "wiring-saved incremental encoder" whatever that means.
[19:50:08] <Gensor> i have DXA
[19:50:09] <Tom_itx> anybody know of a link show how to make a gpio a momentary on/off button for say coolant control?
[19:50:09] <awallin> p61 of that pdf has colors similar to what gensor listed
[19:50:15] <andypugh> (well, D means 4500rpm, X no-brake, S-wiring-saved incremental...
[19:50:31] <awallin> Tom_itx: toggle2nist ?
[19:51:08] <awallin> Tom_itx: http://www.anderswallin.net/?s=toggle2nist
[19:51:26] <Tom_itx> i'm looking at that
[19:52:21] <Tom_itx> err, another one from him
[19:54:09] <KimK> Jymmm: I guess that's a nice product. I'd still prefer to have the ISO in my system to run it on Vbox, though. I usually only burn it anymore if it's going to be really handy. (And they've got to be losing sales on that annoying video #2 music!)
[19:55:21] <KimK> andypugh: I think we decided that "wiring saved" meant some kind of serial-wiring option, but it wasn't explained very well.
[19:55:27] <Tom_itx> awallin, that works on a physical io button?
[19:55:53] <Tom_itx> or axis?
[19:55:59] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,47/id,9518/lang,english/
[19:56:24] <Tom_itx> i've got some code but can't get it working
[19:56:52] <Tom_itx> i robbed it from his pendant code
[19:57:17] <Tom_itx> heh, JT-Shop, the pause resume is next on the list
[19:57:47] <JT-Shop> awallin: you can get your pause/resume out of sync that's why I added a bit to it
[19:58:06] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: should be similar to pause/resume
[19:58:22] <Tom_itx> http://www.anderswallin.net/2006/11/jogging-emc2/
[19:58:29] <Tom_itx> i was following his code for that
[19:58:52] <Tom_itx> but it looks like his flood coolant is mapped to a dummy bit
[19:58:52] <Tom_itx> not sure
[19:58:56] <awallin> 2006 stuff starts to be old probably... :)
[19:59:14] <Tom_itx> yeah, i noticed that
[19:59:50] <Tom_itx> i should probably abandon that for a better method
[19:59:56] <awallin> JT-Shop: if whatever.is-on is wired correctly to toggle2nist I would be surprised if it gets out of sync
[20:00:01] <JT-Shop> you will need to use halui so you can know that flood is on
[20:00:11] <Tom_itx> right
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[20:00:49] <JT-Shop> what I meant was you can pause when your not running with your code
[20:01:08] <awallin> I call that user error. a feature in my code :)
[20:01:14] <JT-Shop> LOL
[20:01:49] <JT-Shop> yea a user could get excited and press pause when not running
[20:02:11] <awallin> for the flood pump, I've used 2-pole ON-OFF-ON switches for the AC supply with settings of emc2/auto - OFF - ON
[20:02:42] <awallin> then you can force the pump off or on independent of emc2 state or without the pc even being on
[20:03:30] * JT-Shop needs to go check the jerky...
[20:06:55] <Jymmm> KimK: Used mostly when building a system, not running in VM
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[20:13:06] <Gensor> ahhhhh i have life :)
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[21:13:26] <KimK> aggrav8d: OK, here's the repaired version of your program, now the scaling operates properly, just change the radius. http://pastebin.com/sASe5Rpg Also, I changed the outer circle from an adder to a percentage change from the inner circle, 1.00 would be the same size. That's a little easier to live with when there's a lot of re-scaling going on.
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[21:29:43] <Tom_itx> ok cool, that works
[21:29:56] <Tom_itx> now to translate it to other functions
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[21:53:02] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, how can i map that to an external .out pin?
[21:53:24] <jthornton> map what?
[21:53:47] <Tom_itx> well i got your pause resume working but i'm converting it for another io
[21:54:35] <Tom_itx> i'll work on it after steak
[21:54:47] * Tom_itx takes a steak n potatoes break
[21:54:50] <jthornton> ok
[21:55:03] <jthornton> be right over but TriTip in the smoker
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[21:56:27] <Tom_itx> garden potatoes
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[22:22:01] <davef> Hi
[22:23:35] <davef> Hoping someone can help me - My linux comp. has a hardware problem. HD is OK so I put it in an older box, Pentium II and I can boot up...
[22:24:17] <KimK> Hi davef , what OS?
[22:24:38] <davef> But Box isn't compatible with the video mode specified for startup. Can't figure out how to change it to something that will work.
[22:24:56] <davef> Hi Kim. Hardy 8.04 LTS
[22:27:13] <davef> From what I can gather, I think I need to change the /etc/X11/xorg.conf but I caqn't edit it.
[22:28:38] <davef> Also there is a xorg.conf.failsale. I wanted to rename that to xorg.conf but I get error msg can't use bare word xorg with strict subs set in eval(1)
[22:29:37] <davef> same for 'conf' and 'failsafe' cant find anthing about 'strict subs'
[22:30:37] <KimK> you can edit if you're root, try "sudo vim filename" or gksu gedit filename". But you might not have to, have you tried "sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg"?
[22:31:14] <davef> To be clear, I am syuck in text mode, terminal. No GUI.
[22:31:35] <davef> stuck not syuck.
[22:32:23] <KimK> Correct. just copy that "sudo dpkg-reconf....." string (without the quotes) and paste it into a terminal (on the bad machine)
[22:33:11] <davef> Don't understand...
[22:33:52] <KimK> Don't forget that to paste into a terminal, you have to ctrl-SHIFT-v, not just ctrl-v.
[22:34:01] <davef> OK I missed your first response. Just a sec.
[22:34:39] <KimK> I recommend that you paste "sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg" into your terminal. (Without the quotes).
[22:35:08] <davef> OK. It is not online. Is that OK?
[22:35:14] <KimK> sure.
[22:35:30] <davef> OK Back in a minute...
[22:35:48] <KimK> If you can't copy and paste, you can just type it in, but watch out for typos.
[22:40:15] <davef> OK, that did something... here's what I got...
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[22:41:54] <davef> overwriting possibly -customized configuration file; backup in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.20110612210026
[22:42:15] <davef> Looks like it wrote a new config. Do I reboot now?
[22:42:35] <KimK> Sure, let's try that first.
[22:42:43] <davef> Awesome.
[22:44:17] <davef> booting...
[22:45:25] <davef> OMG KimK is da bomb!
[22:45:42] <davef> thanks!!!!!!
[22:45:48] <KimK> You bet.
[22:46:48] <davef> KimK where on earth or elsewhere, do you learn this stuff?
[22:47:10] <Tom_itx> time and perserverence
[22:47:14] <KimK> Ha, it's stuff that happened to me too!
[22:47:30] <Tom_itx> it grows on you
[22:47:48] <davef> But where would I have found out about dpkg-reconfigure for instance?
[22:47:52] <KimK> So how's EMC2 running in its new home?
[22:48:25] <Tom_itx> you just did
[22:48:28] <KimK> Oh, there's always http:/help.ubuntu.com/ and Google if that fails.
[22:48:50] <davef> I logged onto ubuntu.com and searched for xorg, video config, startup video mode, etc, etc, etc, ad anuseum.
[22:48:51] <KimK> Oops, http://help.ubuntu.com/
[22:49:56] <davef> I think I need a linux for dummies approach...
[22:50:16] <KimK> How much memory do you have in that P2? Have you done a latency test yet?
[22:51:42] <davef> 384 meg. Not going to use it for EMC right now, but I've used it before. It's OK for my little machines.
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[22:52:27] <davef> I think I got 40 ips with a 16 tpi leadscrew.
[22:53:16] <KimK> OK. It might be a little slow for opening and closing apps and browsing the web and stuff, but it'll probably run EMC2 OK. If you can find some old RAM and get it up to 512MB that might help some.
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[22:55:11] <andypugh> I am confused. I am sure noobs keep appearing with this problem, but now it is my turn.
[22:55:21] <KimK> Or, as someone suggested recently, find a fairly recent PC that someone is getting rid of. Windows XP machines are fine for EMC2, and Winddows users are moving to Vista/Win7 (for no apparent gain in speed, I might add).
[22:55:39] <KimK> Hi Andy. What's up?
[22:56:11] <andypugh> Just now, with my lathe, touch-off of Z to -40 was showing -50.23 on the DRO. That's in G54, touching off into G54, with relative actual displayed.
[22:57:20] <andypugh> Under what circumstances can a touch-off leave the DRO showing anything other than the numbers you enter?
[22:57:56] <KimK> 2.4.6?
[22:58:05] <andypugh> 2.5 pre
[22:58:39] <davef> KimK, R U saying emc2 runs under windows?
[22:59:24] <davef> Oh, you just mean xp vintage boxes... right?
[22:59:39] <KimK> davef: No, I meant that Vista/Win7 generally requires a whole new PC, so there are a lot of WinXP systems becoming available. And they're fine for EMC2.
[23:00:45] <davef> After you install Linux.
[23:00:49] <davef> ?
[23:00:56] <KimK> andypugh: Have you done this twice with the same results?
[23:02:47] <andypugh> Several times, though not through a reboot.
[23:03:06] <andypugh> Touch-off to 0 gave -10.23 on the DRO.
[23:03:36] <andypugh> I tried G91.1 in MDI. No change.
[23:04:44] <KimK> davef: Yes, after you install Linux. In fact, I was just amused to read a recent post to the mailing list (about repraps) where someone said (promoting some embedded reprap software that I'm not familiar with over EMC2) something like, "...besides, people wouldn't want to run Ubuntu as their main desktop OS...", and I thought, "Why not, that's what I do all the time!"
[23:05:13] <KimK> I even run the RTAI kernel all the time.
[23:06:32] <davef> Me too. I have this Ubuntu box and a windows vista on the same network with a router. It's nice to have both.
[23:06:50] <andypugh> So, if the offset isn't G91, I wonder where else that 10.23 is coming from?
[23:07:27] <andypugh> (I suppose I really should have looked through the #5204 etc addresses for it.
[23:07:58] <KimK> OK, back to Andy's problem. The other thing you could try is going through the physical setup for touch off, but then using MDI to G10 L10/11 Pn. I forgot which you want, L10 or L11. If you're trying to "force a result".
[23:08:14] <andypugh> L20?
[23:08:27] <davef> L10 I think.
[23:08:48] <KimK> Um, L10 for tools and L20 for fixtures, right?
[23:08:51] <andypugh> Anyway, I gace up in annoyance (it is midnight) and will try again tomorrow.
[23:09:27] <KimK> OK. You don't have any suggestions for me on Makefile troubleshooting do you?
[23:10:04] <andypugh> Sorry, no, Makefiles are a very foreign language to me.
[23:10:13] <KimK> I've got the docs done, I think, but I'm expecting 5 English PDFs and 4 French, and I'm getting 4 English and 0 French.
[23:11:22] <andypugh> That sounds like pretty exotic Makefil-magic to me.
[23:11:29] <KimK> And I'm afraid I don't know much about make/Makefile/Submakefile etc. Looks like I'm going to though, eh? There you go, davef, that's how it works. Goodnight Andy, thanks for your help.
[23:12:06] <davef> LOL
[23:12:27] <andypugh> Aye, Night all.
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[23:13:01] <davef> G10 L2 P1 X0 sets g54 to machine coordinates...
[23:13:13] <KimK> Andy is in England so he signs off early, especially on a Sunday night.
[23:13:27] <davef> Or Y0 Z0 etc.
[23:13:32] <davef> I see.
[23:13:54] <Gensor> kim, andy: Red@+5v and red/white@ground provides signals on blue and yellow pairs..... but and not getting a change in voltage etc on the other outputs. any ideas
[23:14:03] <davef> Is it G92.1 that kills G92 offset?
[23:14:48] <elmo401> can you use #5221=, #5222=, #5223=? (for x y z WPC)
[23:14:49] <KimK> davef: Ha, I should know, as much time as I spent recently editing docs. But I don't.
[23:15:23] <elmo401> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/gcode/main.html#_g92_g92_1_g92_2_g92_3_coordinate_system_offsets_a_id_sub_g92_g92_1_g92_2_a
[23:15:33] <davef> Anyway, I'll leave you to your work. Thanks KimK computer is happy now. :)
[23:15:46] <davef> Bye
[23:15:51] <KimK> Gensor: Well, you could at least add one more pair to the blue and yellow. Find the index.
[23:15:56] <KimK> bye davef
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[23:17:01] <KimK> Gensor: Then see what that leaves you.
[23:17:26] <Gensor> kim: im not following on "find the index"? I have a multimeter and 330/4700ohm resistors and leds
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[23:18:34] <Gensor> kim, andy: hopefully i didnt blow part of the circuit
[23:19:17] <KimK> I believe earlier awallin said the hall outputs would need pullups, so we can try that later. But first let's find the index pulse pair and put that with the blue/yellow pair. I'm presuming you can see a signal on blue and yellow as you turn the shaft?
[23:20:42] <Gensor> yes, and have played with 4700ohm between +5 and remaining outputs
[23:20:44] <KimK> A voltmeter is OK if you just barely creep the shaft, don't even move it, really. A scope would be better, of course.
[23:21:32] <Gensor> interesting...
[23:21:33] <KimK> Anyway, if you can find the pair with the index pulse, you can set it aside.
[23:22:31] <KimK> That should give you 3 pairs for encoder outputs and then we'll see what's left.
[23:24:44] <KimK> You'll have to spin a little quicker than "zero" to get around your first pass, but you won't see much of a meter response. Is your meter digital? Does it have "peak detect" or any fancy features we can use?
[23:25:05] <Gensor> kim: I should be able to read volts across outout/330ohm/led, spin shaft and measure voltage again.... I shouldnt need to bump it correct
[23:25:44] <Gensor> its digital and is not fancy
[23:26:50] <KimK> The blue and yellow pairs are easier because they have closer to a 50% duty cycle. The index pulse is more like 1 in 4096 or something, so it's very hard to find with a voltmeter, but it can be done.
[23:26:50] <Gensor> kim: Should I spin the shaft a complete rotate before measuring a change?
[23:27:19] <KimK> Yes, you're looking for one "needle" in "one haystack rotation"
[23:27:34] <Gensor> crap
[23:27:52] <Gensor> and the plot thickens
[23:28:34] <Gensor> please describe the higher end multimeter, likely we will have one at work if I can ask the right questions
[23:29:01] <KimK> You might be able to see it better if you can arrange to drive an LED from off to on. If you stare at an "on" LED and wait to see it go off, you'll likely not see it due to visual persistence.
[23:29:36] <KimK> But you could try an LED across the pairs.
[23:29:52] <KimK> LED and resistor, that is.
[23:30:09] <KimK> Oops, hope I caught you in time there.
[23:30:29] <Gensor> all my testing thus far has been a couple degrees
[23:30:52] <KimK> If you have an LED and resistor, let's try that.
[23:31:00] <Gensor> 4700ohm between pairs should be ok?
[23:31:54] <KimK> Then we can spin a little faster. At 5 volts, 4700 is probably a little high, but if you can see it in the room light you have (dim the lights a little), then let's try it.
[23:32:41] <Gensor> Awsome... thanks kim, however I am burned out on testing the 14! combinations so far today
[23:34:31] <KimK> Haha, yes, I can imagine. But this is very easy, to hook up anyway. You check pairs only, and connect so the LED is dark. Then spin slowly. If you go around a couple of times and don't find where the narrow pulse is, try another pair. Think of it like tuning in a really weak station on a radio.
[23:35:55] <Gensor> Kim: Thanks again... and I dislike factorals... except for 0!
[23:37:04] <KimK> Then just think how much things will improve factorially if you can remove a pair from the suspects.
[23:38:10] <Gensor> Kim: So what does Kim do for a living. I am a ME doing aerial mapping for a living
[23:38:12] <KimK> Now, I'm presuming that your motor/encoder does have an index output. It is possible that it does not. So don't beat your head against the wall.
[23:40:43] <Gensor> FYI, at work we have a gyro mount to support our sensors... and they have around 200,000 increments in the encoders. They are spendy units at 200-300k
[23:42:07] <KimK> I'm an Electronics Engineer, also CNC retrofitter, repair, programmer, occasional machinist, EMC2 fan and wannabe developer. Currently looking for work.
[23:42:59] <Gensor> Oh so sorry, aerial mapping is not my cup of tea, but pays the bills in south dakota
[23:43:51] <KimK> You're in SD? Glad to hear you've got work in the midwest. I'm still looking.
[23:44:51] <Gensor> search craigslist.org cnc operator
[23:45:23] <Gensor> Im sure your above the pay grade... but they may have additional needs
[23:46:02] <KimK> I'm hoping that some new ads will break on Monday.
[23:47:00] <Gensor> If you help me source a bridgeport interact series I or II for a good price I will give you a kickback
[23:47:25] <KimK> Does it have to be a Bridgeport?
[23:47:34] <Aero-Tec> hello
[23:47:41] <KimK> Hi Aero-Tec
[23:47:47] <Gensor> ello. I am partial to bp
[23:47:55] -!- davef [davef!~davef@173-26-230-238.client.mchsi.com] has joined #emc
[23:47:56] <Aero-Tec> I have a small problem
[23:48:08] <Gensor> l8ter
[23:48:14] <KimK> OK, bye
[23:48:22] <Aero-Tec> one computer is running 34,000 for jitter
[23:48:36] <Aero-Tec> the other is 182K
[23:48:37] <davef> KimK - Sorry, need a bit more help.
[23:49:01] <KimK> sure, davef , hang on just a moment.
[23:49:02] <davef> Installed 512 meg, and now caqnt complete boot.
[23:49:07] <Aero-Tec> I downloaded version 10
[23:49:22] <Aero-Tec> should I be using version 8?
[23:49:56] <KimK> Version 10 as in 10.04? Are we talking regular Ubuntu or the EMC2 special?
[23:50:06] <Aero-Tec> would using version 8 be better for older CPUs?
[23:50:10] <Aero-Tec> yes
[23:50:43] -!- syyl_ [syyl_!~syyl@p4FD15C69.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #emc
[23:50:55] <KimK> What kind of CPU do you have in mind? Which PC is 34k and which is 182k?
[23:52:34] <KimK> davef: Still got your install disk? (Or any Ubuntu or EMC2 install disk?)
[23:52:55] <Aero-Tec> they should be both P4s
[23:53:11] <Aero-Tec> one is a IBM think center
[23:53:22] <Aero-Tec> the other is a noname box
[23:53:40] <Aero-Tec> the box is 34k and the IBM is 182K
[23:53:50] <KimK> If they're both P4s you should do fine with 10.04, I'd say.
[23:54:35] <KimK> And you can go either the EMC2 special disk, or the regular Ubuntu disk and the EMC2 script, either way is fine.
[23:54:41] -!- syyl has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[23:54:46] <Aero-Tec> just testing a second think center that is the same model as the other one with version 8
[23:54:55] <Aero-Tec> so far 8.6K
[23:55:36] <KimK> The EMC2 disk way is a little bit easier, maybe. No big deal either way though.
[23:55:47] <Aero-Tec> looks like version 8 is way better
[23:56:10] <Aero-Tec> why such jitter?
[23:56:26] <Aero-Tec> is using version 8 just as good as 10?
[23:57:00] <Aero-Tec> solid 8.6K
[23:57:01] <KimK> Are you planning on using the parallel port and the internal software step generator? (In other words, no special I/O hardware?)
[23:57:26] <Aero-Tec> yes
[23:57:35] <Aero-Tec> that is all I have right now
[23:58:19] <Aero-Tec> will buy the boards latter and upgrade
[23:58:26] <Aero-Tec> later
[23:58:33] <KimK> OK, well, you can certainly install and use 8.04. And it is an LTS release, so Ubuntu will support it until 13.04
[23:58:57] <KimK> OK, see you later
[23:59:27] <Aero-Tec> does one loose anything using version 8?
[23:59:52] <KimK> Possibly the newer OS is using some of the power-managment features, etc, and that is what's increasing the jitter. Losing things...let me think