#emc | Logs for 2011-05-29

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[02:52:43] <Valen> whats a cheapish stepper driver board that'll run say 2A or so at 24V
[02:52:48] <Valen> microstepping would be nice
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[07:49:25] <ds3> it is so nice to be able to find obvious problems w/o making a pile of scrap
[07:49:50] <factor> yup
[07:50:29] <ds3> CAD?
[07:51:51] <ds3> or wax models?
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[07:57:37] <factor> I am still working on the hardware here.
[08:15:14] <Loetmichel> ds3: I second that
[08:15:58] * Loetmichel had made a "distance-tube-holder" for a PC_smps yesterday at my company. (prototype)
[08:17:21] <Loetmichel> made the construction in corelDraw, then made the "wrap" for the sheet aluminium, then printed it 11 and made a mockup out of 1mm cardboard just to see if it fits in the computer.
[08:17:40] <Loetmichel> "+oh, forgotten the power filter, back to Coreldraw"
[08:18:07] <Loetmichel> redesing, second mockup out of cardboard, "ok, fits"
[08:18:49] <Loetmichel> made it out of 1,5mm Aluminium sheet, (by saw, drillpress, file, sander), folded it: Fits like a charm.
[08:18:59] <Loetmichel> my apprentice was impressed
[08:19:01] <Loetmichel> -)
[08:19:05] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[08:19:44] <Loetmichel> "one can nake this without CNC? impressive! (but much work!)"
[08:21:45] <Loetmichel> (he will learn to grind/sand/file himself over time, but honestly he will be a IT-systems-electronican in 1.5 years, so metalwork isnt really on his learning scedule ;)
[08:21:59] <Loetmichel> +ch
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[11:37:35] <Tom_itx> Valen, did you find your stepper driver?
[11:37:42] <Tom_itx> http://www.kelinginc.net/KLDriver.html
[11:37:49] <Tom_itx> #9
[11:38:07] <Tom_itx> is cheap and those are distributed all over the place under different names
[11:43:29] <Valen> thats not too bad a price
[11:44:31] <Valen> though i was looking at getting this http://ausxmods.com.au/drivers/gecko-g251-driver from the same place i'll get the stepper itself http://www.ausxmods.com.au/stepper-motors/62-oz-in-nema-17-stepper-motor
[11:44:46] <Valen> i'm somewhat time limited on this project lol
[11:44:58] <jthornton> a bit more but one hell of a good drive http://www.geckodrive.com/g250x-p-37.html
[11:45:26] <Valen> the g250 is better than the g251?
[11:48:14] <jthornton> the 251 comes with a heat sink
[11:48:32] <Valen> not a big issue really
[11:48:46] <jthornton> for $8 I'd get the 251
[11:51:03] <Valen> i was going to get the 251
[11:51:10] <Valen> its all that shop has for sale
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[14:14:32] <Tom_itx> well you said cheap or i'd have said gecko
[14:14:40] <jthornton> LOL
[14:14:51] <Tom_itx> gawd
[14:15:25] <jthornton> a few new pics of inside the shop http://gnipsel.com/shop/machine-shop.xhtml
[14:16:36] <Tom_itx> one of my first projects was a 'bench grinder' too
[14:16:52] <Tom_itx> only mine didn't have a base mount so i used strap and screwed it to the bench
[14:17:05] <Tom_itx> it looked quite similar to yours
[14:17:35] <Tom_itx> do they even make those switches anymore???
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[14:21:48] <JT-Shop> I'd bet they still do
[14:22:19] <JT-Shop> you can't see but the wires are bare and twisted together behind the switch
[14:22:34] <Tom_itx> oh, of course
[14:22:38] <Gensor> JT: nice grinder
[14:22:55] <JT-Shop> it's an antique like me :)
[14:23:27] <Tom_itx> get the door then it looks like you're about ready to start moving machines in
[14:23:55] <syyl__> twisting is a approved way of connecting wires :D
[14:24:06] <Gensor> Everyone starts somewhere, at 14 I revived an old briggs. having a younger brother I asked him to hold the engine while I pull started it. told him how to hold it.... hand over spark plug
[14:24:08] <JT-Shop> getting close, going to work on putting OSB on the west wall today
[14:24:29] <Gensor> I pulled that cord as hard as I could
[14:25:16] <Tom_itx> did he start?
[14:25:24] <Gensor> yes he did heehehhehe
[14:25:48] <Gensor> he wasnt to happy :)
[14:25:56] <JT-Shop> http://www.fruitridgetools.com/storefrontprofiles/processfeed.aspx?sfid=136763&i=176843396&mpid=8171&dfid=1
[14:26:35] <Tom_itx> i bet they don't use the old bakelite anymore
[14:26:55] <JT-Shop> plastic I'd guess
[14:27:25] <Gensor> reminds me of a light switch I have in one of my rentals :(
[14:28:00] <JT-Shop> Gensor: is a slum lord :P
[14:28:42] <Gensor> yes... the slums got hit the hardest in the recession... and so did i
[14:29:11] * Loetmichel had to rennovate the wireing @ my grandma's lately
[14:30:14] <Loetmichel> there were Aluminium wires with cotton spun isolation and switches from bakelite which you have to turn to switch on ;-)
[14:30:22] <Loetmichel> and taht was NOT a "slum"
[14:30:34] <Loetmichel> only a building from 1890 ;-)
[14:32:37] <Gensor> what are your fav linux apps?
[14:33:08] <Tom_itx> emc?
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[14:39:02] <alSMT> Tom_itx, I second That
[14:42:19] <JT-Shop> EMC2
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[14:45:14] <JT-Shop> aluminum wire came out in the 60's
[14:45:43] <Tom_itx> and went out in the late 70's
[14:45:58] <Tom_itx> are any of those houses still standing?
[14:46:25] <JT-Shop> yep, I remember one house that was started with copper and as soon as the owner left the site they switched to aluminum
[14:46:42] <Tom_itx> hah
[14:46:42] <JT-Shop> all burnt to the ground
[14:46:57] <Tom_itx> did he sue?
[14:47:09] <JT-Shop> yep
[14:47:14] <Spida> Gensor: zsh, screen, vim, gimp, firefox. although all of them work in various other OS, too.
[14:47:51] <JT-Shop> another house by the same builder had to have the slab re-poured after the house was finished it cracked so bad
[14:50:03] <mrsunshine> hmm, cant find any specs on how much clearance a bushing needs to its axle ...
[14:50:10] <Tom_itx> seems he didn't play with enough lincoln logs
[14:50:11] <mrsunshine> anyone know anything about it? :)
[14:50:17] <mrsunshine> brass bushing
[14:50:35] <Tom_itx> couple thousandths
[14:50:48] <Gensor> what is the diameter
[14:51:39] <mrsunshine> the axle is 47.65 i think it was
[14:51:48] <Gensor> what units
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[14:52:40] <Tom_itx> brb
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[14:52:55] <mrsunshine> mm
[14:52:56] <mrsunshine> =)
[14:53:20] <mrsunshine> the axle is a bit scratched as they have not been kind to the lathe, i guess i have to smooth that out somehow
[14:53:52] <JT-Shop> just find if it has any high spots and bring them down
[14:54:05] <Gensor> I am not a machinist, but agree with Tom. Few machines can hold .001
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[14:54:47] <mrsunshine> Gensor, yeah but for the bushing not to wear to fast etc and for the oil film i guess there is a maximum and minimum clearance
[14:54:52] <mrsunshine> also for thermal expansions etc
[14:55:26] <Gensor> recommend a machinist forum where you can get better advise
[14:55:26] <mrsunshine> JT-Shop, thats what i figured also =)
[14:56:13] <Gensor> high rpm, or low
[14:56:19] <JT-Shop> all you ever wanted to know about plain bearings http://www.bearings.machinedesign.com/guiEdits/Content/BDE_6_4/bdemech_a04.aspx
[14:57:16] <Gensor> hopefuly low rpm given brass
[14:58:06] Tom_shop is now known as Tom_itx
[14:58:28] <mrsunshine> low i guess, up to what ... like 1000rpm or something when its an old lathe? :)
[15:00:02] <Gensor> hmmmm... I am out of my comfort zone, but have not seen many brass bearings that size at the rpm with those loads
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[15:00:55] <Gensor> I figured there was a good reason lathe bearing were expensive
[15:01:50] <mrsunshine> Gensor, well i dont know, but anyhow there is brass bearings originaly in the lathe so =)
[15:02:05] <mrsunshine> it has to work, reason they failed was that they have not lubricated them :/
[15:02:31] <Gensor> interesting, is the oil under pressure?
[15:02:50] <Tom_itx> mine uses a bushing i think
[15:02:51] <mrsunshine> to get into the bearing ?
[15:03:02] <Tom_itx> it's got an oil cup on top
[15:03:06] <Tom_itx> with a wick inside
[15:03:06] <mrsunshine> aye
[15:03:11] <Gensor> hmmmm
[15:03:12] <mrsunshine> no wick
[15:03:20] <mrsunshine> just a hole and a groove in the bearing
[15:03:45] <Tom_itx> so it doesn't pour in one end and right out the other
[15:03:50] <mrsunshine> and there has been two small oil cups on the top, but they have been removed for some reason, i guess thats why they stopped lubricating it :P
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[15:04:02] <Gensor> curious if the groove is the whole circumference
[15:04:14] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[15:04:28] <mrsunshine> the groove is going just straight over the bearing
[15:04:29] <Tom_itx> some used a vee from the center out
[15:04:37] <Tom_itx> and some were straight across
[15:05:34] <Gensor> what brand/model is the lathe
[15:05:43] <mrsunshine> some swedish brand
[15:05:54] <mrsunshine> or whatever i should call it
[15:06:47] <mrsunshine> and i guess i will have to do the bearing myself, dont know where to look for them :/
[15:07:52] <Gensor> http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/2752-lathe-maintenance/
[15:09:30] <anonimasu> on a lthe 0.01 is not a gigantic issue
[15:09:31] <Gensor> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/drip-oilers-154415/
[15:13:14] <mrsunshine> im thinking of making a lubrican system for it so i can lubricate easily
[15:13:23] <mrsunshine> it has alot of oil cups to just put a couple of drops in :P
[15:13:33] <mrsunshine> and it keeps dirt out to have a closed system =)
[15:17:19] <Gensor> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/new-member-need-help-lathe-bearings-78032/
[15:17:59] <anonimasu> mrsunshine: for anything cnc i suggest a automatic oiler..
[15:18:05] <anonimasu> mrsunshine: it's worth the work to make one
[15:18:19] <anonimasu> oil is cheap bearings and stuff is not
[15:18:30] <anonimasu> or as my father says "nobody lubricated themselves poor"
[15:18:34] <Gensor> anon: did you review the above links?
[15:19:20] <anonimasu> no, no time to do so right now gotta clean
[15:19:50] <Gensor> recommend you copy for later use, they answer all your questions
[15:20:04] <Gensor> google "lathe bearing tolerance brass forum"
[15:20:52] <anonimasu> I have a book about machine elemenets that has a few chapters about bearing selection and design
[15:21:20] <mrsunshine> anonimasu, its going to be manual lathe that one
[15:21:26] <mrsunshine> its to old to do something with :P
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[15:24:39] <Gensor> lat4er
[15:26:20] <mrsunshine> thanks for trying to help, gonna read all that =)
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[15:34:34] <Loetmichel> [mad scientist-laughter] "IT MILLS!" [/] -> http://bambuser.com/channel/Cylly/broadcast/1698411
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[15:43:48] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: yours?
[15:44:00] <Loetmichel> yes
[15:44:20] <Loetmichel> *wink*
[15:50:27] <Loetmichel> *second run, to get the debris out)
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[16:26:47] <Loetmichel> <- still milling
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[17:01:10] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[17:01:41] <IchGuckLive> Connor:
[17:03:11] <IchGuckLive> live -> http://www.ustream.tv/channel-popup/nasa-hd-tv
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[17:30:38] <Loetmichel> well, will be a small Hexacopter.... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12025
[17:30:40] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[17:51:20] <Loetmichel> *shit* milling bit broken. again 7 eur fubared :-(
[17:52:55] <cpresser> Loetmichel: what material are you milling?
[17:55:35] <Loetmichel> alu-dibond
[17:56:06] <Loetmichel> 0,1mm aluminium, 4mm pvc, 0,1mm aluminium laminated
[17:57:35] <cpresser> ah, i know that stuff well. i use to cut it with only one pass. but that may not be possible for such small parts
[17:57:52] <Loetmichel> not possible for my mill
[17:58:04] <Loetmichel> too less spindle rpm
[17:58:12] <Loetmichel> too small milling bit
[17:58:37] <cpresser> i am not sure about my complete parameters. but its about 10k-rpm with a single-flute mill and 1400mm/min feed
[17:58:46] <cpresser> for 4mm dibond
[17:58:59] * Loetmichel has only 5krpm
[17:59:23] <cpresser> but the applied force is quite large; so gluing down with double-sided tape will give you non-accurate parts
[17:59:24] <Loetmichel> and a 2 flute 2mm Carbide bit (for aluminium, tha last one ;-)
[18:00:36] <Loetmichel> at the moment i use 1mm depth per cut, 4 times round, 180mm/min feedrate and 5000rpm
[18:02:03] <cpresser> thats only 0.3µm per flute!
[18:02:25] <cpresser> thats less than the roundness of the sharp edge? or am i mistaken here?
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[18:02:47] <syyl_> my calc says 0,018mm chipload
[18:02:59] <syyl_> even that is "a bit" on the low side
[18:03:24] <cpresser> ah damm.. i did a minutes/seconds-error.
[18:03:57] <syyl_> :)
[18:04:39] <cpresser> but still thats quite a small value for a polymer.
[18:04:44] <syyl_> yeah
[18:04:56] <Loetmichel> the problem isnt the polymer
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[18:05:18] <Loetmichel> in the 3 polymer runs i used 600mm/min
[18:05:43] <Loetmichel> buit in the both aluminuim runs i had to go down or the Mill bit will break
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[18:06:23] <cpresser> right, 2mm isnt that rigid
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[18:07:07] <syyl_> but, when going that slow, i would cut the 4mm in one pass
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[18:07:11] <Loetmichel> cpresser: favent you looked at my bambuser stream?
[18:07:29] <Loetmichel> -f+h
[18:07:51] <Loetmichel> http://bambuser.com/channel/Cylly/broadcast/1698411
[18:08:00] <Loetmichel> that are the motor mounts
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[18:08:31] <cpresser> yeah, i can see it. you just removed the scrap material
[18:09:56] <syyl_> today was a good day in my shop :D
[18:09:57] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/CIMG0669.JPG
[18:10:10] <syyl_> got all three axis up and running with emc and the mesa 5i20
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[18:11:12] * cpresser is still waiting for some extruder-parts of makerbot to arrive.
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[18:18:42] <Loetmichel> <-sneakernet: gcode to cnc per floppy disk ;-)
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[19:05:07] <jthornton> syyl_: what was that originally?
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[19:13:18] <syyl_> a deckel g2 pantograph engraver
[19:13:41] <JT-Shop> neat!
[19:13:45] <syyl_> http://www.e-engraving.com/machines/deckel/Deckel_G2_Pantograph.html
[19:13:55] <syyl_> pretty sturdy for its size :)
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[19:28:59] <i_tarzan> what for if u are using emc ?
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[20:14:26] <Loetmichel> THAT looks promising: -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12028
[20:16:48] <Loetmichel> all screws in, 2 motor beams not milled... should be below 1000gr TOW
[20:16:51] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[20:19:04] <JT-Shop> what isit?
[20:19:08] <JT-Shop> is it
[20:20:57] <Loetmichel> a kopter
[20:21:07] <JT-Shop> heh
[20:21:14] <JT-Shop> 3 rotor?
[20:21:32] <Loetmichel> http://www.mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/Dem_kaeptn-blau_sein_Mini-Y6?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=y6_mini_groesse.jpg
[20:21:35] <Loetmichel> like this one
[20:21:38] <Loetmichel> six
[20:21:55] <JT-Shop> cool
[20:23:17] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: look here: http://www.cyrom.org/MC/y6_landkamp.pdf
[20:23:41] <Loetmichel> that ios the plan ... lets see if the rotors hit the landing gear ;)
[20:23:59] <Loetmichel> ... but tomorrow, my wife is calling for bed...
[20:24:15] <Loetmichel> i have the second motor beam on the mill
[20:24:16] <JT-Shop> you better answer that call
[20:24:43] <Loetmichel> as son as that is run i wull go to bed ;-)
[20:24:46] <Loetmichel> will
[20:25:14] <Loetmichel> 'cause in ~9 hours i have to go to work ;-)
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[21:56:37] <andypugh> Anyone ever tried to make their own telescopic leadscrew covers?
[21:57:13] <andypugh> They are fairly reasonably priced (£25) or so, but 4 weeks delivery.
[21:57:43] <JT-Shop> not me :) but sounds fun
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[21:59:03] <jcizek> @JT-Shop... Hi John, James here (from the forums). Glad you told me you hang out on here, seems a faster way to share ideas than the forums alone!
[21:59:28] <JT-Shop> yea, this is more real time
[21:59:45] <jcizek> gotta say thanks for hanging in there with all my problems :)
[21:59:53] <JT-Shop> anytime I hear "same but different" it catches my attenction
[21:59:55] <JT-Shop> np
[22:00:17] <JT-Shop> I'd look at those magnetic switches if that is the only difference between your router and the plasma
[22:00:50] <jcizek> ya, i just tried swapping the X out with a micro... still same problems. as matter of fact, still have problem with NO switch and wires just shorted
[22:01:08] <JT-Shop> that is weird then
[22:01:16] <jcizek> gotta be a noise or ground problem
[22:01:18] <andypugh> If you look at the limit switches in Halsope, do you see noise?
[22:02:08] <jcizek> nope. that's the weird thing... solid flat line until switch trips, then jumps up to a solid line at the input voltage
[22:02:15] <andypugh> You _might_ be able to work round it with the HAL "debounce" function. (10uS delay in acting on a limit switch is rarely a problem)
[22:02:30] <JT-Shop> do you plug the the limits into your box?
[22:02:43] <andypugh> jcizek: Is that with the Halscope running in the servo thread or the base thread?
[22:02:52] <jcizek> basethread
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[22:03:07] <andypugh> Pixies then. No other rational explanation.
[22:03:15] <jcizek> ya, the limits plug in via a 4 pin "microphone" plug with a locking ring
[22:03:32] <jcizek> haha, yes, the pixies catch me a lot :)
[22:03:35] <JT-Shop> checked the plug on the plasma?
[22:03:47] <JT-Shop> for broken wire etc...
[22:04:15] <JT-Shop> andypugh: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/id,9070/catid,10/limit,6/limitstart,30/lang,english/
[22:04:51] <jcizek> No plug on that end... just at the controller end. Hard wired at teh table end. I put a real O-scope on the pins of the BOB to watch for noise that way too... nothing. rock solid while switch is closed... but EMC keeps throwing the joint 0
[22:05:33] <jcizek> andypugh: ya, that's the thread John and I have been conversing on for quite a while now
[22:06:12] <andypugh> If it works with Mach then I would suspect something wierd in your HAL.
[22:06:23] <jcizek> so the strange thing about this is that it doesn't happen until about 10 minutes after everythign is running (ie, while everything is cool, no problem)
[22:06:55] <JT-Shop> parallel port pin getting flaky?
[22:06:56] <jcizek> andypugh: one thing i found since then is this 10 minute thing... it may well act up in Mach after 10 minutes also.. haven't tried that yet
[22:06:56] <andypugh> Unless it is some ever-so-wierd latency glitch.
[22:07:34] <jcizek> i guess i could move the X limit over to the second Parallel and see if it solves anything
[22:07:40] <jcizek> I have extra pins open
[22:07:51] <JT-Shop> and or swap with the Y to see if the problem moves
[22:07:56] <JT-Shop> in hal
[22:08:06] <jcizek> ya, that's a good idea
[22:09:12] <jcizek> i think instead of building a secondary board full of optos for isolation, i'm just going to replace my BOB's with isolated ones. That seems like a better option and will result in the shortest leads
[22:09:27] <JT-Shop> and easier :)
[22:09:29] <andypugh> Looking at your post 10169 (we missed the party for post 10000) you might think about turning the limits into current loops, with a resistor at the BoB to convert to voltage. That should be more resilient to noise. Not that it sounds like noise is actually the problem.
[22:10:32] <jcizek> that is also a good idea. and wouldn't take much effort to do
[22:11:16] <JT-Shop> brb
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[22:12:04] <andypugh> So, to recap, you are seeing an "on limit" message in the UI without seeing a state-change in Halscope?
[22:12:18] <jcizek> yep
[22:12:32] <andypugh> That ought to be impossible,
[22:12:46] <jcizek> and it's happening while A) homeing ANY axis B) choosing "override limits" and moving ANY axis
[22:13:09] <jcizek> "joint 0 on limit switch error" is the exact error
[22:13:15] <andypugh> The pins are read once per base thread, all the components see the same value from the shared-memory, not the current voltage on the pin.
[22:13:50] <jcizek> unless i was using hal scope wrong, but I don't think that i was because i clearly see when the switch *actually* trips on there
[22:14:56] <andypugh> Is the HAL file in that forum thread? (Are _all_ the HAL files there?)
[22:15:13] <jcizek> no, they are not.
[22:15:23] <jcizek> but i could post them there with little effort
[22:15:30] <jcizek> if that would be helpful
[22:15:48] <andypugh> Simpler to paste to www.pastebin.ca
[22:15:58] <jcizek> you'll probably throw up when you see how complicated they all are :-) they are based on the THC300 samples
[22:15:59] <andypugh> (which is up again, Yay!)
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[22:16:46] <jcizek> let me go fire up the shop machine adn paste them up
[22:17:00] <andypugh> Yeah, my suggestion was likely to be to start from scratch with a fresh stepconf config (you can always keep the current one too, my machine has about 8 configs on it)
[22:17:09] <JT-Shop> how many axis share the home switch?
[22:17:38] <andypugh> Ah, yes, I think that only axis0 will trip with a shared limit.
[22:17:54] <jcizek> one axis per pin, but 2 switches per axis (ie, 3 pins, 6 switches)
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[22:18:59] <JT-Shop> with the magnetic switches after you home your moving far enough away so the magnet can not trip a switch?
[22:19:19] <JT-Shop> does vibration affect that type of switch?
[22:19:49] <JT-Shop> just thinking out loud
[22:19:55] <andypugh> If halscope doesn't see it....
[22:19:59] <jcizek> vibration shouldn't be a problem, but i did change the X switch to a micro
[22:20:11] <jcizek> and ya, i am moving far enough away to un-trip
[22:20:22] <andypugh> Are you halscoping the pin as well as the limit signal?
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[22:20:44] <jcizek> but thing is, i'll have the X axis 24" or more away from the switch, and i hit "home" the axis will move 1/8" and throw the error
[22:20:54] <jcizek> i was only halscoping the debounce.out pin
[22:21:34] <jcizek> ok., im sitting in the shop now, i'll get those configs up
[22:22:03] <jcizek> jt: i also found another "anomoly" which explains why the torch was firing 4" above the material!!
[22:22:04] <andypugh> jcizek: Scope the limit-in pins too, you never know
[22:22:19] <jcizek> andy: ok, firing it up now
[22:22:45] <andypugh> JT, it's only one state away, hop on the bike and sort him out :-)
[22:22:55] <jcizek> wow, cold start and i got the limit error *instantly* with no movement of any axis
[22:23:27] <jcizek> where you at JT? which direction is your state? :)
[22:23:45] <billykid> sorry for the intrusion ;-)
[22:24:03] <billykid> can you tell me if the command M6 (manual tool change) I can call a sub to reset the tool?
[22:24:29] <andypugh> billykid: Yes, and no. It can in the 2.6 dev version.
[22:24:49] <billykid> ah
[22:25:24] <jcizek> andy: should i scope the Xlimit? or the pin before the debounce?
[22:25:41] <billykid> I have to insert calls to hand but I'm glad the same
[22:26:07] <JT-Shop> I'm in Swamp East Missouri
[22:26:29] <andypugh> I would scope the whole chain, but xlimit-in (which isn't the real name) is the endpoint, if we see nothing there, but still see an error then something very, very odd is happening.
[22:26:42] <jcizek> oh, that's a lot more than one state away from Colorado :)
[22:26:55] <andypugh> Only one Kansas-width :-)
[22:27:11] <JT-Shop> and one Missouri width + height
[22:27:33] <billykid> Last thing: if I want to try the version 2.5.0
[22:27:42] <andypugh> <innocent> is that far then?
[22:27:44] <jcizek> and half of a CO width + entire CO height :)
[22:28:33] <jcizek> but I'll cook you a steak dinner and put you up in the guest bedroom if you wanna come fix this ^&*% thing!!! :)
[22:28:50] <billykid> I have to change sources ?
[22:28:52] <JT-Shop> closest as I ever get to you is Mitchell South Dakota to Pheasant hunt
[22:29:18] <JT-Shop> billykid: I use the git RIP on my 2.5 machines
[22:29:25] <jcizek> ok guys, time for a dumb question... how do i "reset" hal scope so i can use more than one channel?
[22:29:40] <andypugh> billykid: You _might_ be able to link motion.tool-change-request (or whatever it is called) to an MDI_COMMAND, but I think that a) MDI_COMMANDS only work when a program isn't running and b) calling subs from an MDI_COMMAND is a 2.5 feature.
[22:30:03] <JT-Shop> you can do it with ladder :)
[22:30:15] <jcizek> cancel that... found it. setting up for 8 channels
[22:30:55] <billykid> sin I can not follow well ...
[22:31:47] <andypugh> Hmm, Seb is in Boulder...
[22:31:48] <JT-Shop> billykid: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_with_EMC2_package_already_installed
[22:33:04] <jcizek> boulder is 35 ~ 40 minutes
[22:33:05] <andypugh> billykid: You can get precompiled binaries of all the versions from the buildbot, I think.
[22:33:16] * JT-Shop goes to cut another piece of OSB for the West Wall
[22:33:49] <jcizek> ok, so hal scope running on all the pins, signals. It's SUPER clean.. not any noise on the line
[22:33:59] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I installed one and it hosed the menus for some reason
[22:34:05] <jcizek> even the raw parport pin
[22:34:10] <andypugh> billykid: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ (I think there are instuctions there). 2.5 is usable, I have been using it for over a year.
[22:34:46] <billykid> thanks everyone I'll see how to do
[22:35:08] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I wouldn't have noticed, I hosed my menus accidentally a year or more ago.
[22:35:17] <JT-Shop> LOL
[22:35:39] <andypugh> I have icons in the menu bar that call the RIP 2.5 for each config.
[22:35:53] <andypugh> But that isn't likely to suit other folk.
[22:35:55] <JT-Shop> that's what I do too
[22:36:04] <jcizek> andy: you mentioned that I might get a joint 0 error even if another joint was tripping.. did i understand that correctly?
[22:36:37] <andypugh> I want to find nicer icons. Both are currently identical and some random spring thing. I want penguins holding a milling cutter or a lathe tool :-)
[22:37:11] <andypugh> jcizek: Only if the limit switches are shared, or linked to the wrong axes.
[22:37:29] <billykid> good night :-D
[22:38:03] <JT-Shop> I just tested my plasma and while X is homing I tripped Y and get "joint1 on limit switch error"
[22:38:18] <JT-Shop> I have one switch per axis for home and limit
[22:38:58] <jcizek> actually, currently, that is all i have also. I guess I realized that I have the 2 switches attached to the plasma table, but only one hooked up right now
[22:39:11] <JT-Shop> just tested Z and get "joint2 on limit switch error"
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[22:39:28] <andypugh> I am having a wierd flashback.. I remember looking through the source trying to figure out a similar issue, which was eventually tracked to a comp using "arctan". But I think that was an "exceeds limits" issue, not a limit-switch one.
[22:39:39] <JT-Shop> my setup works on both ends
[22:40:23] <JT-Shop> this is the Y http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/Plasma006.jpg
[22:40:26] <jcizek> im going to unplug my limits altogether, and short the limit posts with a short jumper right at the BOB. That should certainly limit the "noise" factor no?
[22:40:26] <Gensor> Any: Good or bad, I ordered a set of mesa cards including 8i20
[22:40:40] <Jymmm> Hey folks! How's everyone's holiday coming along?
[22:40:50] <JT-Shop> jcizek: yep
[22:41:19] <Gensor> jymmm: raining for the past week here in USA SD
[22:41:21] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: slow I've only had one cerveza
[22:41:45] <Jymmm> Gensor: Oh, that bites!
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[22:41:56] <andypugh> Gensor: 8i20 is a nice bit of kit.
[22:42:02] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, pacing yourself for the next 72 hours?
[22:42:17] <Jymmm> err 48
[22:42:23] <JT-Shop> na, just been busy
[22:42:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: No bbq/smoker going?
[22:42:45] <Gensor> Andy: I have a steep learning curve, but will do my best....
[22:42:46] <andypugh> jcizek: Sounds like a sensible experiment
[22:42:47] <JT-Shop> grilling today
[22:43:33] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Same here; burgers, links, and hot links
[22:43:41] <Gensor> hehehe
[22:44:02] <andypugh> Gensor: You will be the third user (that I know of) of the 8i20. The driver is still in the "Design Verification" stage.
[22:44:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Attempted to make a Marinated Red Cabbage salad, but it's just not there.
[22:44:15] <JT-Shop> T-Bone and corn on the cob here... Cocoa will be a happy puppy after dinner
[22:44:50] <andypugh> <confused Brit> Eh?
[22:44:54] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: you see the latest shop photos?
[22:45:01] <Gensor> Andy: Pete indicated the firmware is in flux, which I have no problem with. I was more conserned about PWB rev change due to parts etc
[22:45:03] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: link?
[22:45:26] <JT-Shop> finishing the inside http://gnipsel.com/shop/machine-shop.xhtml
[22:45:29] <Jymmm> andypugh: puppy gets bones and scraps
[22:45:44] <JT-Shop> well bones anyway
[22:46:01] <jcizek> jt&andy: so shorting pin 15 to ground with a short jumper and get same result. joint moves about 1/4" and throws the joint 0 error
[22:46:08] <andypugh> No, I am wondering about the whole beer, 72 hours, barbecue thing.
[22:46:27] <JT-Shop> Memorial Weekend
[22:46:35] <JT-Shop> monday is Memorial Day
[22:46:41] <andypugh> jcizek: Has to be the HAL file. Or soemthing as wierd as this bug which drove me mad http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel/3273/match=atan
[22:47:15] <andypugh> Please elaborate? I think I have heard the phrase, but what is it?
[22:47:28] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Very cool, just curious why OSB, cheaper than drywall?
[22:47:35] <Jymmm> andypugh: A national Holiday
[22:47:47] <JT-Shop> andypugh: http://www.usmemorialday.org/
[22:48:14] <^^_hunter_^^> Hi everyone I'm a total n00b with CNC but am pretty familiar w linux and im kind of confused. Is it possible that the signal from a parallel port pin can cycle a series of transistors wired to a stepper motor to get rotation? or is emc outputting some other kind of signal that needs to be interpreted by a controller board of some kind? would the transistor / motor setup i describe be possible? Sorry if this is a dumb question or
[22:48:14] <^^_hunter_^^> has already been answered somewhere else!
[22:48:17] <jcizek> andy: since it works *sometimes* it doesn't seem like HAL file... I'm posting my files now, maybe you'll see something obvious...
[22:48:28] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: same price but resists gaping holes from bungling material movers (me) and holds screws better
[22:49:00] <andypugh> ^^_hunter_^^: Yes, you can do what you describe.
[22:49:15] <^^_hunter_^^> sweeet!
[22:49:17] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, lol. You going to add LOTS more lighting?
[22:49:19] <^^_hunter_^^> thank you!
[22:49:30] <JT-Shop> ^^_hunter_^^: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/stepgen.9.html
[22:49:42] <JT-Shop> yea, I just have a few up
[22:50:07] <andypugh> ^^_hunter_^^: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/stepgen.9.html Types 5 to 10
[22:50:09] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Cool, I see the T10's and lots of shadows in the corners is all
[22:50:17] <Gensor> l8ter
[22:50:23] <JT-Shop> T8's
[22:50:36] <Jymmm> my bad t8
[22:50:48] <JT-Shop> and they are too low and missing about 3/4 of them
[22:50:58] <andypugh> ^^_hunter_^^: If the current is less than 500mA then the ULN2003 works well for unipolar motors.
[22:51:09] <Jymmm> too low... height? wattage?
[22:51:42] <JT-Shop> height, I have one about 3" from the sheetrock and like that one
[22:52:11] <JT-Shop> 6500k so nice and bright
[22:52:32] <Jymmm> well, nice and WHITE at least
[22:52:40] <jcizek> andy: do you need the URL pastebin provides? or can you see my posts without? I have pasted one file.. working on a few more
[22:53:03] <^^_hunter_^^> aaaah and at $0.20 ea no less
[22:53:05] <andypugh> URL helps, the pastebins appear thick and fast
[22:53:32] <jcizek> pastebin.ca/2071751 that's stepper.hal I have about 2 or 3 more coming
[22:53:33] <JT-Shop> jcizek: I just noticed that I get a "joint 0 on limit switch" error if I power down the bob with EMC still running
[22:53:38] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yeah, I have one 2 bolb fixture here, but it's at 10' height so floods light out pretty well
[22:54:15] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I'll have 16 total so around 100 candle power with all lit
[22:54:40] <andypugh> ^^_hunter_^^: http://ssecganesh.blogspot.com/2008/05/driving-stepper-motor-using-uln2003.html
[22:54:56] <^^_hunter_^^> wow.. this is too cool...
[22:54:57] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Cool. Whats the ceiling height?
[22:55:00] <jcizek> andy: pastebin.ca/2071752 is thc300.hal (main hal file)
[22:55:05] <JT-Shop> 10'5"
[22:55:18] <Jymmm> really, doens't look it from the photos
[22:55:49] <jcizek> andy: pastebin.ca/2071753 is my INI file
[22:55:53] <JT-Shop> the two ladders are 8'
[22:56:13] <Jymmm> k
[22:56:19] <^^_hunter_^^> i just took my steppers out of a printer.. any idea why they would have 6 wires rather than 5?
[22:56:36] <jcizek> andy: pastebin.ca/2071754 is parport.hal.. .that should be all the important ones
[22:56:39] <JT-Shop> jcizek: any chance your bob is dropping power
[22:56:42] <andypugh> Independent midpoints.
[22:57:22] <andypugh> ^^_hunter_^^: Sounds like you have the ideal motors for ULN2003 use
[22:57:34] <jcizek> jt: i just tried your experiment. no error on power down.
[22:58:04] <jcizek> jt: but that kind of makes sense since im using NC closed switches, no power needed to keep everything shorted to ground
[22:58:28] <jcizek> i see other inputs change when i power down as i loose the +5 reference
[22:58:40] <jcizek> but no errors or change on the X
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[22:59:01] <JT-Shop> hmmm
[22:59:10] <^^_hunter_^^> humm.. im not sure what independent midpoints means.. only 2 of them out of that printer too..
[22:59:28] <JT-Shop> I'm using N/C as well I guess it is different bob's
[22:59:36] <jcizek> interestingly though
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[22:59:54] <jcizek> i tried turning off power to the controller (which includes motors, controllers, and BOB)
[22:59:59] <jcizek> and ran a "home"
[23:00:12] <jcizek> no error, it just starts homing the Z axis on the DRO
[23:00:44] <jcizek> soon as i hit "ESC" key to stop, i get the joint 0 error
[23:01:24] <jcizek> im going to need to tap into those mental health benefits from my insurance pretty soon :)
[23:01:47] <^^_hunter_^^> andypugh: Thanks for the help, time to pick up my son now, but i'm sure to return with countless noob questions lol thanks again
[23:02:47] <andypugh> jcizek: thc300.hal is a good example of what comp was written for :-)
[23:03:14] -!- ^^_hunter_^^ [^^_hunter_^^!~quassel@c-71-239-152-42.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has parted #emc
[23:03:59] <jcizek> ya, i can believe that! I was in the middle of ditching this config in favor or John's much simpler one when i ran into the x axis problem... now i have to fix it first before i can move on
[23:04:34] <JT-Shop> or move on and see if it is fixed :)
[23:04:54] <jcizek> can't do that... even a brand new fresh config has this joint problem
[23:05:27] <andypugh> Ah, I was just about to suggest trying the fresh config first.
[23:06:35] <jcizek> i just tried another home.... Z moved up until it hit it's own home switch, and then threw a joint 0 error
[23:06:53] <jcizek> it's so weird how so many differnt things are tripping this error
[23:06:56] <andypugh> Simple experiment, how about commenting out line 35 of parport.hal (so the X limit is not wired), and setting NO_FORCE_HOMING in the INI file?
[23:07:09] <jcizek> ok, trying now
[23:07:59] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BTRAJ%5D-section]
[23:09:52] <jcizek> well, it homed Z no problem, it homed Y no problem, then it tried to home X and broke my temporary switch mount off :-) But no error at all
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[23:11:12] <jcizek> you guys think it's worth moving the X limit to a differnt pin on teh BOB?
[23:11:35] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:12:17] <jcizek> ok, i'll move it from 15 to 12.. brb
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[23:14:10] <jcizek> ok moved... now to update the configs...
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[23:15:51] <jcizek> same error... soon as i take it out of e-stop and hit power i get the joint error
[23:17:50] <andypugh> You are using the in-not pin, I assume that is correct for both the microswitch and the magnetic switch?
[23:17:58] <JT-Shop> physical power switch or EMC's power button?
[23:18:24] <jcizek> EMC's
[23:18:36] <JT-Shop> hmmm
[23:19:25] <andypugh> EMC ignores limits until motion is enabled
[23:20:32] <jcizek> just tried again and it worked fine
[23:20:37] <jcizek> homed all 3 axis with no error
[23:21:03] <JT-Shop> gremlins then
[23:21:05] <andypugh> Great, fixed!
[23:21:19] <jcizek> hahahaha
[23:21:22] <jcizek> i wish it was that simple
[23:21:32] <jcizek> i got to thinking though
[23:21:39] <jcizek> do you guys ground your table to anything?
[23:21:51] <JT-Shop> nope
[23:22:01] <Tom_itx> not even earth ground?
[23:22:04] <Tom_itx> ground rod?
[23:22:19] <andypugh> Not explicitly. But I think on a plasma I would want the table earthed to supply earth.
[23:22:25] <JT-Shop> nope, but the power and drives are
[23:22:48] <jcizek> i just switched back to the reed switch, and it's working every time now (so far)
[23:23:05] <andypugh> (I am not seeing anything obviously cross-wired in your HAL, by the way)
[23:23:23] <JT-Shop> Indian burial ground under your house then
[23:23:39] <jcizek> that is sadly a very likely possibility with the way my luck normally runs :-)
[23:23:57] <andypugh> I would be tempted to comment-out the tcg300 HAL in the INI, but that is mainly because it makes my head hurt.
[23:24:12] <jcizek> aha ah ah ah ahahha...
[23:24:37] <JT-Shop> yea a basic minimal config just to test homing
[23:24:43] <jcizek> I am a beginner at this stuff.. i can't even believe i got it to work AT ALL!!
[23:25:15] <andypugh> thc300.hal is a monster of HAL logic.
[23:25:18] <JT-Shop> I even printed the flow chart out once on D size paper and still couldn't follow it
[23:26:03] <andypugh> It's impressive, in its way.
[23:26:13] <JT-Shop> that's 915mm x 1220mm for metric minded folks
[23:26:59] <andypugh> Like a full-size Taj-Mahal, made of matchsticks.
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[23:27:33] <jcizek> as long as we are on the subject of strange... here's another one for ya... i was cutting a test out the other day, and all the sudden the torch just started climbing away from the material like mad... i found out why, but you guys aren't going to believe me :)
[23:27:53] <andypugh> Gerbils?
[23:28:21] <andypugh> Actually, insects?
[23:28:25] <jcizek> i don't have my water table done yet. so i had set the 16 guage steel on top of one of those flimsy aluminum cooking pans (like you put a turkey in) and filled it with about 1" of water
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[23:28:35] <jcizek> this all sitting on the concrete floor in the shop
[23:29:15] <jcizek> so, the THC sees about 24 volts during pierce. Insulate the steel from the aluminum and it "sees" 102V. What's that all about?
[23:29:25] <andypugh> (I am thinking back to a problem on the depth gauge last week, caused by dolphins :-)
[23:29:39] <jcizek> ncie
[23:29:39] <jcizek> nice
[23:30:06] <andypugh> jcizek: I think you re-invented the Leiden Jar?
[23:30:39] <jcizek> made a nice capacitor huh?
[23:30:42] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyden_jar
[23:30:52] <JT-Shop> well guys time for me to prep the grill and get dinner started
[23:30:54] <JT-Shop> talk to you later
[23:31:00] <jcizek> cya JT
[23:31:03] <jcizek> thanks for the assistance
[23:31:19] <Tom_itx> slap a couple on for us all
[23:31:27] <Tom_itx> we'll be over
[23:31:50] <jcizek> ha!! just as i thought all was well... now im getting joint 1 errors
[23:31:52] <jcizek> i give up
[23:32:52] <andypugh> Still nothing on Halscope?
[23:33:08] <jcizek> andy: i remember those jars... we built them in science class in junior high!
[23:33:41] <andypugh> jcizek: Really? That mush make you about 150 :-)
[23:33:51] <Tom_itx> maybe you need pullups or pulldowns on the switch
[23:34:27] <jcizek> i am only 36, but we built those as one of our "projects"
[23:34:46] <jcizek> tom: my BOB has pullups enabled on it.
[23:35:21] <Tom_itx> k
[23:36:07] <jcizek> so i think before i beat my head any further, im going to rebuild my entire limit system. Change the BOB's out to isolated ones, dress all the wires properly, and make sure i have skrink wrap on anything exposed at all... then i'll come back and see how things are working.
[23:36:18] <jcizek> Everything "looks" solid now
[23:36:20] <jcizek> but
[23:36:41] <jcizek> it's sort of like solving a problem by disassembling it and reassmebling it, sometimes, that's all it takes :)
[23:36:57] <andypugh> jcizek: I think we need to get to the bottom of whether the troublesome signal is seen by halscope or not. If it isn't then I am thinking of obscure causes like faulty PC memory in the shared-memory region where the HAL pins live. (Yes, I am getting desperate)
[23:37:53] <jcizek> ya, i can't see ANY noise on the hal scope, not even when i set 200mv/div nothing. it's rock solid flat until the switch trips... i do see the noise in the switch contact while it's opening on the scope, but NOTHING while the error pops up
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[23:38:46] <jcizek> andy: i could clone this machine to another.. i have PC's coming out of my ears here. I could do that tonight and try another machine...
[23:39:45] <andypugh> Worth a try, but rather than clone it, create a fresh, minimal, 2-axis config in stepconf. Lets isolate the problem into hardware or software.
[23:39:55] <jcizek> ok, i can do that
[23:40:28] <jcizek> so before i sign off to go tear things apart... got one more odd thing i
[23:40:28] <jcizek> 'd like to throw out
[23:40:50] <Tom_itx> you have reached your bit limit for today
[23:41:29] <jcizek> well ok, that's fair. I have hogged the channel for quite some time already today!
[23:41:36] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Shush!
[23:41:41] <Tom_itx> round of beer and you can continue
[23:42:07] <jcizek> you stop by and fix all my woes and i'll supply you with as much beer as you can drink :-)
[23:42:55] <Tom_itx> carry on..
[23:43:31] * Valen joined just in time
[23:43:37] <jcizek> so andy, you';ve seeen the config... the main thing to keep in mind here... when M03 is issued, the hal config intercepts, pauses code exceution, does teh Z probing, moves to pierce, turns on torch, moves to cut and then resumes gcode excution....
[23:44:06] <jcizek> so i have a basic gcode file that i run. when i step through it one line at a time with "T" it works exactly right
[23:45:02] <jcizek> but if i just "run" it, the first 2 cuts are probed correctly, the third cut just fires the torch in mid air, never probing, then the 4th probes correctly etc.etc... and it's not just one piece of code. I have many that do that
[23:45:16] <jcizek> what would cause code to run different in step mode than just free running?
[23:51:03] <andypugh> I can only guess, I am afraid
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[23:52:16] <andypugh> But it could be timing (a race condition somewhere) or it could be the operation mode. I don't know if single-step drops the interpreter out of auto mode, allowing MDI interaction, but I don't think it does.
[23:52:26] <jcizek> the only thing i could even hazzard a guess at is that the config won't do a z probe if the X+Y movement hasn't passed a "preset" amount, and that the code isn't handling where to put the Z. But I didn't see anything in config that wouldn't indicate
[23:53:12] <JT-Shop> I seem to remember that the THC300 config had some checking for corner height lock
[23:53:18] <andypugh> It is possible that you need to change the order in which functions are added to threads in the HAL file. They execute in strict order.
[23:53:38] <jcizek> it seems to only happen when 2 cuts are fairly close together. It doesn't happen ever if subsequent cuts are more than about an 1" or 2 away from each other
[23:53:46] <jcizek> does that hint at corner hight problems maybe?
[23:53:50] * JT-Shop just stepped in for a pair of pliers to fix the grill
[23:54:13] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you mean welder dont you?
[23:54:20] <JT-Shop> that config is so convoluted it is hard to tell exatcly what it is doing
[23:54:47] <jcizek> ok, so maybe i'll spend the time working on JT's config since it's a proven method
[23:55:42] <jcizek> JT, your config handles corner height locking doesn't it?
[23:55:47] <jcizek> i think i remember seeing that in there