#emc | Logs for 2011-05-12

[00:01:13] <andypugh> Finding one with the right current range is possibly a little tricky.
[00:01:43] <andypugh> However, you could try just leaving it out and seing if the lights dim too much, or the main breaker trips.
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[00:02:35] <Gensor> right current rating.... just put them in parallel
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[00:03:57] <andypugh> No. That's a really bad idea.
[00:05:11] <andypugh> The one with the lowest resistance will take more current, get hotter, have an even lower resistance, pass more current, get hotter still... The other one will stay there being cool and low resistance until the hot one blows.
[00:05:27] <ve7it> anybody have access to SAE standards online? I am looking for J1939/21 its about 380k
[00:05:51] <Gensor> hmmmmm.... more research
[00:07:45] <andypugh> ve7it: I can probably find it at work.
[00:09:15] <ve7it> Hi Andy... I am trying to get some experience with CAN bus traffic in a jeep.... I have a sniffer, but wonder if some of the standards define the message formats
[00:09:59] <ve7it> SAE site wont even give a preview to know if its what I am looking for
[00:10:11] <ve7it> http://standards.sae.org/j1939/21_201012
[00:10:26] <Tom_L> $73.00
[00:11:07] <ve7it> they show $65 here in Canada!
[00:11:19] <Tom_L> well this was another commercial site
[00:11:34] <Tom_L> http://global.ihs.com/search_res.cfm?rid=Z56&mid=5280&input_doc_number=j1939&org_code=SAE&s_kwcid=TC|5891|SAE%20j1939||S||3208020914
[00:11:39] <ve7it> ah...
[00:13:16] <ve7it> andypugh, you work with ECU's?
[00:14:22] <Tom_itx> is that can buss stuff?
[00:14:42] <Tom_itx> anonimasu is working with can
[00:14:55] <ve7it> yes.... SAE says there are 7 docs in the standards for j1939
[00:15:20] <Tom_L> http://www.microcontrol.net/en/source-code/sae-j1939.html
[00:15:35] <Tom_itx> what controller?
[00:15:35] <ve7it> I am not even sure if the jeep uses J1939 standard
[00:17:07] <andypugh> Yes, I work with ECUs
[00:19:13] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J1939
[00:19:32] <andypugh> I think that you will find that 1939 is not what you need
[00:20:00] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ODB-II
[00:20:05] <andypugh> Might be useful
[00:20:30] <Tom_L> someone in another channel made an interface for that
[00:20:43] <andypugh> But both standards define the legally-mandated common signals, not the protocol.
[00:21:03] <andypugh> You can probably find the CAN protocol somwhere on the Bosch website.
[00:21:06] <ve7it> the OBD bus is too slow.... I want to eavesdrop on the ECU to gauge cluster comms
[00:21:43] <andypugh> Cluster comms is likely to be entirely proprietary.
[00:22:06] <andypugh> Though you can probably reverse engineer quite a lot of it.
[00:22:24] <andypugh> What CAN interface hardware are you using?
[00:23:27] <andypugh> Your car might well have a high-speed, low-speed and medium-speed CAN bus.
[00:25:20] <ve7it> I have the microchip USB can bus analyzer ... jeep does have high speed and low speed busses, but most of the signals I am looking for should be on the low speed buss that connects most of the dash and interior devices
[00:27:35] <ve7it> I need to get spliced into the bus and see what it looks like... open door... look for door open message.. signals on etc... some like gas gauge or speedo/tach should be easy to spot
[00:27:37] <andypugh> If you sniff all the signals it is likely that you can figure out which is which from the way they vary. (coolant temperature will rise fairly slowly, fuel will drop very slowly, etc etc.
[00:29:13] <andypugh> But you will also see many very odd ones, AC pressure, alternator current demand, lift-pump PWM, that sort of thing. It isn't just cluster messages that are visible at the cluster CAN pins, that's rather the point.
[00:30:39] <andypugh> The CAN bus is probably carrying high hundreds of different signals.
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[00:33:19] <ve7it> yup.... in this 2010 jeep, every switch, light, sensor etc goes into a controller... even the stereo control head and amp are separated by a controller... so turning up the volume generates can bus traffic
[00:35:03] <ve7it> there is a 250k high speed bus between most of the ABS, ECU, stability controller etc and a 100k bus for the human interface stuff
[00:35:56] <andypugh> Try googling for a .dbc file
[00:37:01] <andypugh> But 'tis later here, and time to log off.
[00:37:03] <ve7it> http://sourceforge.net/search/?q=J1939 shows 3 can related projects
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[00:37:17] <ve7it> what is a .dbc file?
[00:38:27] <ve7it> ok candb
[00:45:04] <Jymmm> ve7it: Is that the one where it can start itself and put into gear automatically?
[00:45:38] <Jymmm> 2010 or 2011 Jeep
[00:46:06] <Jymmm> (huge recall on that one)
[00:46:26] <ve7it> 2010 wrangler.... standard transmission.... so I think the clutch petal still controls the clutch plates without a computer!
[00:47:08] <ve7it> pretty cool recall... all the vehicles drive back to the dealership
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[01:11:29] <L84Supper> hmm I was just looking for an OBD1 (not OBD2) to USB converter
[01:27:46] <Connor> Can someone explain the diff with velocity mode on/off in a mpg ?
[01:28:47] <Connor> It doesn't look to make much difference...
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[01:39:26] <Connor> Ideas on a connector that would handle a few pins for the mpg and usb (not just power, but signial too)
[01:45:18] <jdhNC> USB A-b-ofsomesort and an rj45
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[01:50:36] <Jymmm> RJ45
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[01:55:47] <Connor> Yea. I was thinking RJ45.
[01:56:23] <Connor> +5,G,2 for USB Sig, 2 for AB and 2 For Estop. (if it needs to be looped through existing pin)
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[01:58:45] <Tom_L> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=WM23703-ND
[01:58:53] <Tom_L> something like that
[01:59:14] <Connor> not for a external connection that you can unplug from the console...
[01:59:40] <Connor> Kinda want it to look nice. :)
[01:59:51] <Tom_L> you want something rigid then that won't break off when you throw the pendant
[01:59:54] <Connor> RJ45, or maybe a 8 pin DIN connector ?
[02:00:06] <Tom_L> RJ45 doesn't fit the bill for that
[02:00:32] <Connor> I won't be throwing the pendant..
[02:00:34] <Connor> :)
[02:00:37] <Tom_L> industrial environment, needs an industrial plug
[02:01:09] <Connor> I don't think my office in my house is very industrial.. :)
[02:01:13] <Jymmm> It's hobby based, not industrial.
[02:01:19] <Tom_L> pfft
[02:01:30] <Jymmm> Dont need the connector to cost more than the whole endant.
[02:01:36] <Jymmm> pendant
[02:01:48] <Jymmm> there are rubber boots for rj45 too
[02:01:55] <Connor> yea. CAT5E would be the ticket.
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[02:02:09] <Connor> with said rubber boot or cable snag boot.
[02:02:27] <Tom_L> ok, quad code written, lcd interface layed out
[02:03:06] <Tom_L> based on an atmega328 since i have some
[02:03:17] <Connor> Any mock ups and can you share the code?
[02:03:20] <Tom_L> any would do.. 48 88 168 328
[02:03:32] <Tom_L> all pin compatible
[02:03:33] <Connor> I hooked my mpg up and played with it.. it works. :)
[02:03:36] <Calyp> hi, if i'm running Debian Wheezy, what installation guide should i use (to install emc2
[02:03:48] <Tom_L> i would hope it did
[02:04:57] <Calyp> The one for Lenny Perhaps?
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[04:18:33] <jtektool> hello
[04:18:42] <jtektool> who have we got tonite
[04:18:59] <awallin> 7am over here...
[04:19:11] <jtektool> where???
[04:19:37] <jtektool> im old skool hacker in midwest my day starts at 11:00 pm lol
[04:20:25] <awallin> finland... (greece and southafrica etc are in the same timezone)
[04:21:19] <jtektool> i need a quick help i hooked my encoders up to my parallel port and it seems like step signals are bleeding over to my servo driver
[04:21:52] <jtektool> is that cuz im not opto isolated (im impatient and waiting on shipping)
[04:22:24] <awallin> what do you have hooked up?
[04:22:55] <jtektool> i have glass scales that work perfectly when mydrive is topped
[04:22:58] <jtektool> *stopped
[04:23:32] <awallin> ok, do you drive the servo from the parpot? with step/dir or pwm?
[04:23:40] <awallin> parport
[04:24:00] <jtektool> yeah should i just hook the encoders to my other parallel port
[04:24:29] <jtektool> (im waiting on another bob and optoisolaters in the mail
[04:24:44] <awallin> the drive might cause a lot of noise on GND also, so switching ports might not help
[04:24:46] <jtektool> moschp pci
[04:25:15] <jtektool> the drive is optoisolated but the noise is maybe coming from encoders?
[04:25:22] <awallin> yes, optoisolation on the drive command to the servodrive is a good idea. you want the high voltage stuff isolated from the pc and the encoders
[04:26:19] <awallin> do you have both encoders and glass scales? check with a multimeter that you really are isolated, signals, +5V and GND should really not be in contact with eachother
[04:26:49] <jtektool> im using these drives:http://www.shop.cncdrive.com/index.php?productID=166
[04:27:41] <jtektool> i have rotary encoders going to these drives and glass scales to emc
[04:28:31] <jtektool> the accurracy is dead nuts (sic american speech) on glass scales
[04:29:01] <awallin> that must be a scientific expression...
[04:29:19] <awallin> are you using separate logic (+5v) supplies for drive/encoder and for glass scales
[04:29:19] <jtektool> lol
[04:29:40] <awallin> if the drive input really is isolated I would be surprised if you have problems from drive-noise
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[04:30:49] <jtektool> yeah but as soon as i manually turn the axis (square wave output from glass scale encoders) activates the drives
[04:31:21] <awallin> the usb-cable may also connect grounds between drive and pc?
[04:31:42] <awallin> and you don't have any pid-loop in emc2 that is supposed to act on the glass scale input?? :)
[04:32:27] <jtektool> yeah thats above my head as of yet im slowly easing my way in on this stuff
[04:32:43] <jtektool> youtube.com/jtektool
[04:32:49] <jtektool> i have 4 machines to retool
[04:34:19] <jtektool> i mean im not stupid i got A's in calculus im just an easy does it kind of guy trying too and also not an EE
[04:34:24] <awallin> did you start with a stepper_inch.ini and modify that?
[04:34:37] <jtektool> just used the wizard
[04:34:54] <awallin> so you are sure you don't have any funny stuff in HAL acting on the glass-scale input?
[04:35:35] <jtektool> man im not at the machine right yet i have a paste bin that's not updated to my current setup
[04:36:09] <jtektool> you european dudes seem so nice thanks for the help so far
[04:36:23] <awallin> ok, I guess pastebin the INI and HAL files for someone to look. no point in looking for electrical noise if the emc2 config is to blame :)
[04:37:27] <jtektool> i have it memorized i can edit it from here in about 10 mins or less
[04:37:38] <jtektool> (the pastebin)
[04:39:33] <jtektool> net xpos-fb <= encoder.0.position => axis.0.motor-pos-fb
[04:39:40] <jtektool> is there something wrong with that line
[04:41:10] <schwege> well that's probably causing what you're seeing :)
[04:41:24] <jtektool> how to fix???
[04:41:46] <schwege> are you familiar with the HAL command line?
[04:42:15] <schwege> or wait, that's already in a .hal file, right?
[04:42:37] <jtektool> yeah thats the hal file check my jtektool pastebin
[04:42:52] <jtektool> SUPERMAX.hal
[04:43:11] <jtektool> yeah im better in vim than hal command line yet
[04:43:37] <schwege> ok no need to check, just comment out that line and you should be fine
[04:43:38] <jtektool> im very experienced in shell scripting and linux configs (gentoo user mostly)
[04:43:53] <schwege> or for a quick check just "halcmd unlinkp axis.0.motor-pos-fb"
[04:44:17] <jtektool> thanks :)
[04:44:19] <schwege> np :)
[04:44:30] <jtektool> but will it still read on DRO?
[04:44:55] <jtektool> thats really all im trying to do with the glass scale
[04:45:21] <schwege> forgive me, DRO? (I'm a total EMC newbie, only hacked with the HAL side)
[04:45:57] <jtektool> oh digital read out in axis
[04:46:00] <awallin> digital read out (that lcd-display manual machines have which reads position)
[04:46:27] <jtektool> no dro in axis intrface is what i want
[04:47:03] <schwege> ah, in that case it'd probably be better to modify that line (or run the unlinkp command)
[04:47:05] <awallin> you need to check that xpos-fb is not hooked up to a pid loop that commands the axis
[04:47:35] <jtektool> from glass scale there was this old file from 2007 where this guy was doing this but now the syntax is changed
[04:47:36] <schwege> ah true, forget what I said
[04:47:41] <schwege> axis is the module you want to have the info
[04:48:07] <jtektool> i have his paste bin too
[04:48:25] <jtektool> ill post that up on jtektool as well
[04:50:15] <schwege> line 55: net xpos-cmd axis.0.motor-pos-cmd => stepgen.0.position-cmd
[04:50:24] <schwege> "there's your problem"
[04:50:48] <schwege> (given that axis indeed acts on the signal)
[04:50:58] <schwege> but commenting that out might help, at least temporarily
[04:51:21] <schwege> you probably want to have that line intact when you're ready to run the machine for real, though :)
[04:52:06] <jtektool> og sample.hal
[04:53:05] <jtektool> and then notes...:
[04:55:35] <jtektool> OG irc steppers/encoders chat
[04:56:06] <jtektool> i just got all confused cuz the syntax changed and i got a bunch of other stuff in there from the stepper wizard
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[05:02:43] <jtektool> thanks team!
[05:03:07] <schwege> np, hope it helped :)
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[05:04:06] <jtektool> yur doing a lot in my mind for us linux guys have a huge reputation for being arrogant and no one here has been as such
[05:04:20] <jtektool> so much so i was afraid to even ask questions
[05:05:02] <jtektool> first time i've ever asked any linux question in ten years of using it (lots of o'reilly books)
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[05:11:33] <jtektool> anybody on here need a hack to convert pdfs to tiff and then to text im going to put those up on pastebin too
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[05:11:53] <jtektool> ???
[05:12:19] <jtektool> someone mentioned hacks
[05:12:26] <awallin> you should put them on your blog with lots of good keywords so I find it next time I'm googling for that :)
[05:13:33] <jtektool> yeah get this i have this lawyer client downtown and he gets pdfs with addresses in them but pdfs are more like PS files
[05:14:41] <jtektool> so you gotta convert from xy, to picture file and then use ocr c program to pull out addresses and then put them into MS word using mail merge
[05:14:57] <jtektool> im a dirty dog but he payed me 500 bucks to do it
[05:15:39] <schwege> I take it then that the pdf's been made so that the text is stored as outlines instead of embedded fonts?
[05:15:59] <schwege> which leaves your method as the only way to go
[05:16:03] <jtektool> right its actually pretty tough to get text out of them
[05:16:48] <jtektool> whamo 1000s of mailers out to people who have court dates
[05:17:09] <jtektool> i dont think its bad though these people need help, theyre on the court docket
[05:17:28] <jtektool> he gets a daily docket
[05:17:42] <jtektool> theyre some sed and awk trickery in there too
[05:18:08] <jtektool> but yeah good to talk to someone who understands
[05:18:39] <jtektool> im in the middle of nowhere ohio and know only one other programmer
[05:20:30] <awallin> jtektool: http://scraperwiki.com/
[05:21:04] <schwege> heh, true :) it's always nice to have someone else interested in nuts'n'bolts, too
[05:22:12] <schwege> atm at a tech uni, so lots of interested people around, gotta enjoy it while it lasts :P
[05:24:00] <jtektool> ;)
[05:25:36] <jtektool> yeah and i know a couple other guys who can do visual basic but i don't really consider them programmer's :)
[05:27:29] <jtektool> and then thats where my *nix attitude comes in cuz we had these guys come in with theyre fancy pants parker hannifin servo systems
[05:28:19] <jtektool> like actually parker came and we built all the mechanical stuff and theyre trying to get me to learn theyre system but its so closed ended
[05:29:18] <jtektool> we built the test equipment for just about every backup camera for nissan, ford, gm, and hummer.
[05:29:35] <jtektool> emc is very ripe now for what we are doing
[05:30:50] <awallin> unless you are doing very high speed hsm then emc2 will do for most things
[05:31:24] <jtektool> the deal is a cartesian robot moves out about six iches while holding the case to the camera and presses it down on the other side of the case and presses them together
[05:32:28] <jtektool> then they have this awesome uv pastic shit that gets injected with pneumatics and cured right there with fiber optic uv lights
[05:33:01] <jtektool> but i think theyre paying WAY too much for this guy from parker hannifin to come in
[05:33:53] <jtektool> and move a freakin x/y table 6 inches on y and about 6 on x and the a relay clamps the board
[05:34:18] <jtektool> and releases
[05:34:43] <awallin> sounds like industrial automation stuff... hope you have pc's that can handle the environment
[05:34:44] <jtektool> i think the uv system alone is like $30,000
[05:35:10] <awallin> curing uv-epoxy out in the sun works real well :)
[05:35:53] <jtektool> thats a good question where to go for industrial pcs???with good latency
[05:36:02] <Jymmm> awallin: So does 600W/in UV bulbs =)
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[05:36:54] <psha> Valen: here?
[05:37:12] <Valen> yes
[05:37:32] * awallin bikes to work...
[05:38:04] <Valen> psha: yeah not going anwhere ;->
[05:38:41] <jtektool> dont you think just using solid state drives is a big help to industrialize pcs???
[05:41:42] <jtektool> <<on a slow ass netbook
[05:42:27] <Valen> psha: prod?
[05:46:35] <Jymmm> jtektool: running what?
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[05:49:02] <jtektool> whats running what my retarded netbook or solid state drive pcs
[05:49:27] <Jymmm> netbook
[05:49:34] <jtektool> dont ask
[05:49:47] <jtektool> its a free business computer
[05:50:02] <jtektool> im completely ashamed
[05:50:12] <Jymmm> Mine runs great and fast too
[05:50:29] <jtektool> windows 7
[05:50:41] <jtektool> its not the os its where im at
[05:51:02] <jtektool> check out castalia ohio on google maps
[05:51:22] <jtektool> not many towers around here
[05:51:58] <jtektool> when im in the city its like broadband 4g
[05:52:30] <jtektool> but hey i can walk out my back door and kill dinner
[05:52:32] <psha> Valen: working ;)
[05:52:40] <psha> switching camera off is possible
[05:52:47] <psha> and pretty simple
[05:53:16] <Valen> ahh, cool it'd just make it a bit lighter on my little atom machine ;->
[05:53:16] <psha> i'll take a look at it tomorrow
[05:53:33] <psha> but hooking it into focus will not be reliable
[05:53:44] <Valen> I'd love to help, but as always time and roundtoits are in short supply
[05:54:00] <Valen> yeah thats why i was thinking if you could tie to the visibility of the tab itself
[05:55:04] <anonimasu> anonimasu: j1939 tractor ecu?
[05:55:18] <anonimasu> ve7it: err...
[05:55:57] <anonimasu> ve7it: it might be lin or something like that
[05:56:15] <Valen> any ideas on part 2 of that problem psha?
[05:56:55] <anonimasu> j3939 is just a protocol on top of can, but usually sensor data can be figured out by looking at the pdo's directly
[05:59:06] <jtektool> Jymm: I live on the edge of the only trout hatchery in all of ohio
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[06:00:00] <jtektool> thereZ a creek 50 ft behind my house where they escape and you can catch them with popcorn and a net
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[06:00:21] <psha> Valen: need to refresh my mem first :)
[06:00:23] <psha> ah
[06:00:25] <jtektool> << master of off topic subjects
[06:00:25] <psha> pins?
[06:00:30] <Valen> yeah
[06:00:42] <psha> pin names are configurable
[06:00:47] <psha> as i recall
[06:01:25] <Valen> where?
[06:01:36] <jtektool> signal names are arbitrary too i just learned the other day
[06:01:47] <psha> self->ctl_axis_pins = cam_unit_add_control_string (super,
[06:01:47] <psha> "axis-pins", "Base name for Axis pins", "halui.axis.%d.pos-feedback", 1);
[06:01:51] <psha> axis-pins
[06:01:58] <psha> for feedback pins
[06:02:33] <psha> and 'circle' - base name for circle pins
[06:02:44] <psha> in printf format with one %d
[06:02:51] <psha> for axis
[06:02:55] <psha> and prefix for circle
[06:03:01] <Valen> sorry start one step earlier
[06:03:06] <psha> :)
[06:03:26] <psha> your problem is that halio plugin is looking for incorrect pin names
[06:03:28] <Valen> self->ctl_axis_pins = cam_unit_add_control_string (super, "axis-pins", "Base name for Axis pins", "halui.axis.%d.pos-feedback", 1);
[06:03:28] <psha> right?
[06:03:36] <Valen> looks like it
[06:03:39] <psha> that's just excerpt from code
[06:03:46] <Valen> which code?
[06:03:51] <psha> halio plugin
[06:03:59] <Valen> where is that?
[06:04:12] <Valen> i tried looking but couldn't find it
[06:04:15] <psha> http://psha.org.ru/cgit/psha/emc-camunits/tree/halio.c#n235
[06:04:36] <psha> it's living in separate repo since it depends on EMC libs to build
[06:04:45] <Valen> if its in a .c its not really "configurable" without recompiling stuff is it?
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[06:05:52] <psha> no, it's configurable via plugin parameters
[06:05:59] <psha> in runtime
[06:06:06] <psha> here is just default value
[06:06:13] <Valen> so how do i change those?
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[06:07:29] <psha> do you have 'halio' tab in camview?
[06:07:52] <psha> in camview-emc
[06:07:55] <Valen> not that i recall, I'll check (i'm 30km from the mill at the moment)
[06:07:59] <Valen> one sec
[06:08:07] <psha> or you have prepared chain file?
[06:09:02] <Valen> i use the config file
[06:09:15] <Valen> (person at the mill is turning computer on now, wont be long)
[06:09:54] <psha> and you've created this config file with stock camview program?
[06:10:45] <Valen> yes
[06:11:00] <Valen> (i followed the wiki like a good sheep ;->)
[06:11:42] <psha> so you need to fix that file with stock camview
[06:12:32] <Valen> you mean to edit it
[06:13:29] <psha> yes, edit and set correct 'axis-pins' parameter
[06:14:53] <Valen> heh i cant see all the controlls on the screen
[06:14:57] <Valen> need a higher res monitor i think
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[06:18:49] <Valen> psha: the errors i'm getting are like this as well "campins.hal:10: Pin 'camview.hal_checkbutton1' does not exist"
[06:19:00] <Valen> http://pastebin.ca/2056568 is the output of running it
[06:19:26] <Valen> I note it goes to 8 axis even though limit is set to 3 in camviewcfg
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[06:27:43] <stillme> i was wondering which is preferable to use?? Flat nose or ball nose end mill?? for cutting lithophanes?
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[06:38:36] <archivist> stillme, the right form for the job you are doing
[06:40:29] <archivist> taper with a round end as for mould making
[06:44:04] <stillme> what of lithophanes??
[06:44:26] <stillme> is there a resource where i can read what each is best for?
[06:45:27] <psha> Valen: do you have 'hal_checkbutton1'? :)
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[06:46:49] <Valen> i presumed it was the g43h99 button
[06:47:03] <Valen> i just took the files from the wiki
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[06:56:18] <psha> you'd better comment this part for a while
[06:57:09] <Valen> doesn't seem to cause any other issues but i'll give it a go
[06:57:24] <Valen> all the "net" lines in campins.hal seem to not work
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[07:00:07] <awallin_> log
[07:01:45] <psha> Valen: sure they are not working
[07:02:01] <psha> since they are connecting not-loaded panel with something else
[07:02:22] <Valen> I seem to be missing something
[07:02:35] <Valen> but I cant find anything i didn't do from the wiki
[07:05:41] <psha> do you have gladevcp panel?
[07:06:10] <Valen> dunno, i presume so as i can see the camera tab etc?
[07:06:47] <Valen> camviewcfg.hal_checkbutton1 is a signal I can see with hal meter
[07:06:53] <Valen> ticking the box makes it change
[07:09:32] <Valen> you can look at the machine if you want?
[07:09:41] <Valen> I can give you access over VNC
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[07:51:35] <psha> Valen: no, i'm at work now - very limited with resources :)
[07:51:44] <psha> what's your time offset?
[07:52:18] <Valen> GMT +10
[07:54:05] <psha> hm, mine is GMT+4... so it'll be late night when i'll get to my home computer...
[07:55:18] <Valen> in roughly how many hours is that?
[07:55:49] <psha> 19:00 i guess
[07:56:14] <psha> maybe in the morning?
[07:56:31] <psha> i'll try to wake up at 07:00 (03:00 GMT)
[07:58:30] <Valen> ( i meant hours from now)
[07:58:36] <Valen> till you get home
[07:59:45] <psha> 7
[08:00:54] <Valen> yah that might be a little much
[08:01:04] <Valen> 1:00 AM here
[08:01:45] <psha> 03:00 GMT match is better i guess
[08:01:56] <psha> here will be 07:00 and you'll have 13:00
[08:02:01] <Jymmm> Valen: 2011-05-12 01:01:04 Valen: 1:00 AM here
[08:02:33] <Jymmm> Valen: wth are you?
[08:02:37] <psha> :)
[08:02:50] <Jymmm> w==where
[08:02:57] <psha> Jymmm: turn around, he's behind you :)
[08:03:24] <Jymmm> if so, he's about to get stabbed<reaching for knife>
[08:03:54] psha is now known as psha[work]
[08:05:10] <Valen> Jymmm: you forgot the first rule, dont bring a knife to a gun fight
[08:05:22] <Valen> psha[work]: if you want to do that i'm sure i can arrange it
[08:05:42] <Valen> (i know I wouldn't want to get up early to do stuff like this lol)
[08:05:51] <Jymmm> Valen: Um, look at what is pointing at your crotch =)
[08:06:23] <Valen> Jymmm: by behind, he meant about 800 meters, .50 sniper ftw ;-P
[08:06:43] <Valen> I just don't like shooting people in the back ;-P
[08:06:54] <Jymmm> Valen: Not even in your wet dreams @ 10 yards!
[08:07:23] <Valen> your right, I wouldn't bother doing something like that bullets for those things are soooo expensive
[08:07:29] <Valen> just blow the house up it'll be easier
[08:08:22] <psha[work]> Valen: heh, i'll need to get up earlu tomorrow to drive thought whole town till traffic jams
[08:08:29] <Valen> psha[work]: if you could give me a hint of where to start unravelling it, the problem is I don't know anything about any of the components involved lol, so i don't even know where to start looking
[08:08:40] <psha[work]> i guess problem is in incorrect loading order
[08:08:52] <Valen> how would i go about changing it?
[08:08:53] <psha[work]> vcp panel is not loaded but you are trying to use it's pins
[08:08:53] <Jymmm> Valen: I don't have a problem with that, just give me 48hours to move things out and verify the insurance is up to date.
[08:09:28] <Valen> heh blowing up my place would probably increase the land value, damn asbestos
[08:10:25] <Valen> i don't actually "load" vcp panel anywhere that i can see?, i was under the impression it was built in in 2.5+?
[08:10:44] <Jymmm> Valen: till you breathit and die
[08:10:51] <Jymmm> Valen: where are you, BC ?
[08:10:57] <psha[work]> stuff like G42 button is loaded from VCP panel
[08:11:02] <Valen> sydney australia
[08:11:11] <psha[work]> G43
[08:11:28] <Valen> see that makes me confused as all that stuff is working
[08:11:31] <Jymmm> Valen: you said it was 1AM
[08:11:44] <Valen> it will be 1 am in 7 hours (when psha gets home)
[08:11:54] <Jymmm> Valen: *SMACK*
[08:13:58] <psha[work]> Valen: it's not really 'working' until properly connected
[08:14:57] <Valen> i mean the panel loads and has camera etc on it
[08:15:59] <psha[work]> panel is extra stuff inside camview-emc
[08:16:13] <psha[work]> you may try running plain 'camview-emc' and see that there is no G43... checkbox
[08:16:17] <psha[work]> it's loaded from gladevcp panel
[08:16:42] <Valen> so what defines the load order?
[08:17:07] <psha[work]> load order (have to be) load camview plugins, vcp, HAL
[08:17:12] <psha[work]> it's handled in camview itself
[08:17:23] <psha[work]> so you are running it with -H campins.hal flag?
[08:18:06] <Valen> yes
[08:18:52] <Valen> camview-emc -c camviewcfg -g togle-caa.ui -f yuv -H campins.hal -w {xid} is the line in my ini
[08:19:21] <psha[work]> togle-caa.ui is vcp panel
[08:19:44] <psha[work]> looks ok
[08:28:11] <Valen> so where to next?
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[08:38:19] <psha[work]> campins.hal and togle-caa.ui were living in same archive?
[08:39:02] <psha[work]> just sanity check - maybe they differ and there is no hal_checkbutton1 in vcp
[08:44:53] <Valen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Axis_Embed_Video took it from http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/emcfiles.zip
[08:45:20] <Valen> when i start it, I can see the signal in hal meter
[08:50:38] <psha[work]> so there is camview.hal_checkbutton1 pin?
[08:50:42] <psha[work]> after it's loaded?
[08:51:58] <Valen> yeah
[08:53:27] <psha[work]> strange...
[08:53:54] <psha[work]> and you don't have other commands (like HAL_FILE in axis config) for campins.hal?
[08:54:37] <Valen> nothing that i wasn't told to do by the wiki
[08:55:35] <Valen> its running 2.6 if that matters?
[08:56:03] <Valen> ahh i think i might have a lead
[08:56:37] <Valen> i have camviewcfg.hal its looking for camview.hal
[08:56:55] <psha[work]> that's not good i guess
[08:58:50] <Valen> that seems to have fixed the checkbox one
[08:59:09] <psha[work]> nice
[08:59:12] <psha[work]> and what's left?
[08:59:12] <Valen> but now i have campins.hal:11 pin 'halui.mdi-command-00' does not exist
[08:59:19] <psha[work]> create it! :)
[08:59:32] <Valen> where how?
[08:59:47] <psha[work]> [HALUI] section in config
[08:59:51] <psha[work]> MDI_COMMAND = xxx
[09:00:00] <psha[work]> list of commands is somewhere documented
[09:00:23] <Valen> which config?
[09:00:40] <psha[work]> main .ini file
[09:00:57] <Valen> ahh i must have missed that for some reason
[09:03:50] <Valen> ahh that stuff is in the supplied ini file, i never looked at that, its a whole config
[09:04:45] <psha[work]> you may move theese commands into panel file
[09:05:01] <psha[work]> with MDI Command action widgets
[09:05:18] <Valen> that might be a more portable solution?
[09:05:25] <Valen> (ie easier for other people)
[09:05:31] <psha[work]> yes
[09:05:45] <Valen> which is panel file?
[09:05:47] <psha[work]> and HAL configs will be smaller
[09:05:51] <psha[work]> togle-caa.ui
[09:06:13] <Valen> that seems to be an XML file?
[09:06:21] <Valen> where would i put it in here?
[09:06:22] <psha[work]> yes, it's edited with 'glade'
[09:06:33] <Valen> I have used glade before
[09:06:41] <Valen> <- python weenie ;->
[09:06:41] <psha[work]> it's just simple UI file
[09:07:02] <psha[work]> one panel with some buttons/checkbuttons
[09:07:13] <Valen> I'm just not sure where to put those commands?
[09:07:37] <psha[work]> you have to add 'MDI Command' widget from 'HAL Actions' section
[09:07:54] <Valen> think I'll mark that down for next time
[09:07:55] <psha[work]> theese are non-visible widgets
[09:07:58] <psha[work]> :)
[09:08:03] <Valen> I'll just stick it in the hal
[09:10:43] <Valen> still have that error
[09:11:04] <Valen> campins has mdi-command-00
[09:11:31] <Valen> the halui section has mdi_command=o<_camon> call
[09:13:15] <psha[work]> yes, theese are mdi-commands-X
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[09:18:47] <Valen> mmm spontanious reboot
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[09:39:31] <Valen> VICTORY!!
[09:39:45] <Valen> i needed this line First, to get halui running, edit your .ini file and add under [HAL] HALUI = halui
[09:40:19] <Gensor> morning
[09:40:55] <Gensor> do you guys have the atom 510?
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[09:46:16] <psha[work]> Gensor: some of us
[09:46:46] <Gensor> does the bios allow you to select memory timing ie 5-5-5-15
[09:47:47] <Gensor> or a 5-5-5-12
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[10:07:23] <psha[work]> don't know :)
[10:07:27] <psha[work]> is it important?
[10:07:41] <psha[work]> Valen: contratulations :)
[10:08:21] <Gensor> it defines the speed of the memory ie 12 vs 15
[10:09:54] <Valen> I have a dual core atom
[10:09:58] <psha[work]> heh, question is not 'what is 5-5-5-15/12' but is it really important? :)
[10:11:05] <Gensor> im buying memory now... just was curious since one is a no name brand at 12, and the other is known... at 15
[10:12:30] <Valen> nah not gonna make a difference
[10:12:36] <Valen> I'd get the name brand
[10:12:50] <Gensor> thanks
[10:14:27] <The_Ball> anybody here converted a single phase to three phase/vfd?
[10:15:54] <TekniQue> I guess all you need is a VFD
[10:16:02] <TekniQue> that accepts a single phase input and three out
[10:16:47] <The_Ball> I've got that, that's fine, and I've removed the hold starter capasitors, but it's running very rough in when trying to start, then it trips the vfd
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[10:17:08] <The_Ball> I've connected it using triangle connection, not star, perhaps that's my problem
[10:17:23] <The_Ball> or I could have gotten the winding orientations wrong, if that's even possible
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[10:17:47] <TekniQue> wait, what
[10:17:58] <TekniQue> what capacitors did you remove
[10:18:23] <The_Ball> this was a single phase motor, to start it needs a capasitor to create a ghost phase
[10:18:30] <The_Ball> (the missing third phase)
[10:18:47] <The_Ball> obviously with a vfd you have all phases
[10:18:51] <TekniQue> was and still is a single phase motor
[10:19:07] <The_Ball> crap, really?
[10:19:10] <TekniQue> yes
[10:19:30] <TekniQue> the winding that connects to the capacitor is known as the start winding
[10:19:40] <TekniQue> it's much shorter than the main winding
[10:19:48] <TekniQue> and is only needed to start the motor
[10:20:12] <The_Ball> oh, that explains my measurements
[10:20:18] <TekniQue> if you don't connect it, the motor won't start reliably but if you give it a push it will continue turning in that direction
[10:20:54] <TekniQue> the capacitor just acts as a ballast for the start winding
[10:21:04] <TekniQue> sometimes the start winding is connected by a relay
[10:21:07] <TekniQue> for more starting torque
[10:21:16] <TekniQue> and then disconnected once the motor is up to speed
[10:21:40] <TekniQue> however you may still be able to use the motor with a variable frequency drive
[10:21:41] <The_Ball> yeah, this has a internal gyro switch and two capasitors, a 220uF and 18uF
[10:21:49] <TekniQue> just connect it between two phases on the VFD
[10:22:23] <The_Ball> hmm, ok, might give that a go
[10:22:43] <The_Ball> might screw with the vfd v-f sensing though?
[10:22:47] <TekniQue> it might
[10:23:14] <TekniQue> like I said, I can't guarantee it to work
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[10:42:57] <Gensor> when does pete, or peter get on?
[10:43:26] <jthornton> it's 3:45 am for him
[10:43:56] <Gensor> its 4:45am for me....
[10:44:30] <jthornton> I usually see him a bit later in my day
[10:44:46] <jthornton> but you could scan one of the logs to see
[10:45:02] <Gensor> is it pete or peter
[10:45:32] <jthornton> you are talking about pcw?
[10:45:53] <Gensor> no idea, someone said talk to pet(er)
[10:46:11] <jthornton> about Mesa ?
[10:46:14] <Gensor> mesa card guru
[10:46:25] <jthornton> he is Mesa :)
[10:46:37] <jthornton> pcw_home: at the moment
[10:46:56] <Gensor> thanks!
[10:47:45] <jthornton> usually you just ask the question and if someone can answer they will...
[10:49:54] <Gensor> is this the best solution for ac servos 5i23 7i44 and (3-4) 8i20
[10:53:38] <Gensor> I suppose... time to crash again
[10:53:45] <jthornton> I take it you have some ac servos but no drives?
[10:54:44] <Gensor> drives I have, but no cables or documentation to easily hook them up. sanyo denki and sales rep said cant help
[10:55:38] <Gensor> i will post some pictures on cnc forum to see if anyone can assist me
[10:55:49] <jthornton> ok
[10:59:57] <anonimasu> can I run allen bradley servos with the mesa 8I20
[11:00:16] <anonimasu> 330v 4.3A
[11:01:02] <Gensor> I am not an expert, but they need to be ac servo and im told the next release of ubunta will support 8i20
[11:01:41] <anonimasu> they are
[11:01:44] <anonimasu> ubuntu?
[11:01:53] <anonimasu> you mean emc?
[11:02:12] <Gensor> sure, as i said, i am still learning, yes for emc2.xx
[11:03:11] <Gensor> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,30/id,8690/lang,english/
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[11:27:28] <anonimasu> I have 9 1.9kw servos :)
[11:29:32] <jthornton> I have some huge DC servos left over from a conversion... don't know what to do with them
[11:29:45] <anonimasu> I see
[11:29:48] <anonimasu> ac servos :)
[11:33:28] <jthornton> I've got some heavy duty linear rails too... what to build, what to build
[11:37:23] <jthornton> oh, I know I'll build a shop :)
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[11:38:23] <jthornton> I seem to be having measuring issues lately and don't know why :/
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[11:44:39] <anonimasu> howcome?
[11:45:46] <jthornton> dunno, I walk over to the wall and take a measurement then walk back and cut the part wrong...
[11:46:15] <jthornton> putting sheeting up on the inside walls and I have trashed about 6 sheets now
[11:46:42] <anonimasu> get a notepad
[11:47:03] <Tom_itx> hire better help
[11:47:36] <jthornton> I tried to hire some help but he just got a new girl friend and is busy atm
[11:49:44] <jthornton> I sometimes reverse the direction of the measurement and I do that from time to time with numbers too...
[11:50:56] <jthornton> psha[work]: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,22/id,9559/lang,english/
[11:57:06] <psha[work]> jthornton: thx
[11:57:22] <jthornton> I thought you might like that one
[11:57:50] <psha[work]> there was already one request for buttons over background image
[11:58:07] <psha[work]> with simple solution
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[12:12:21] <jthornton> psha[work]: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,showcat/catid,48/lang,english/
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[12:24:00] <psha[work]> ерч
[12:24:01] <psha[work]> thx
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[12:57:13] <The_Ball> jthornton, looks like using glade will allow for a real UI lift when released
[12:58:31] <JT-Shop> cool
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[13:13:04] <JT-Shop> here is a tip from your Uncle John... don't forget to center the holder when you take out a boring bar and put a S&D drill bit in or you will get a much bigger hole and a nicely bent 23/32 bit
[13:29:10] <anonimasu> JT-Shop: indeed :)
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[13:33:47] <Tom_itx> better than scrapping osb ?
[13:35:21] <JT-Shop> about the same :/
[13:35:54] <Tom_itx> sounds like you need a vacation
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[13:49:21] <The_Ball> if you run a normal 3phase motor slower than it's plate rated speed, say run it at 30hz you risk overheating from lack of cooling, what about running it over the rated speed, say 100hz, what would happen?
[13:51:42] <archivist> increased wear probably , electrical efficiency may be different
[13:52:13] <cradek> if there's a fan attached, you will waste extra power spinning it
[13:52:33] <cradek> I think drag on a fan is proportional to the cube of the speed
[13:53:16] <The_Ball> ok, that didn't sound too bad :)
[13:54:15] <archivist> at 30hz I would not be too worried anyway, depends too on load
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[13:55:40] <skunkworks_> we have been running a 5hp with a tosvert vfd (90's vintage) with no real issues. from 0 to 4000 rpm. (1800rpm motor)
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[13:56:59] <skunkworks_> spindle override is awesome also btw
[13:58:22] <The_Ball> how so?
[13:58:23] <skunkworks_> I was cutting some things that I was worried about the cutter plugging. click feed hold - switch to spindle override. roll the jog wheel to run the spindle down to 0 rpm. check tool.
[13:59:00] <skunkworks_> reverse and continue cutting :)
[13:59:28] <The_Ball> sweet. I ran into problems today, my mill has a single phase motor, not a three phase, so now I have to find a new motor
[14:01:24] <skunkworks_> plus you can tweek the spindle rpm to fine tune the cut
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[15:26:00] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lRp1l8qiyE
[15:28:40] <The_Ball> skunkworks, i'm planing on makeing a repstrap for my mill once i get some extra cash... hmmm, when will that ever be
[15:30:26] <archivist> little cash..buy less make more
[15:30:44] <jdhNC> nah, just borrow trillions from china
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[15:39:37] <archivist> dunno I tend to think borrow money is a mugs game
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[16:23:16] <jtektool> what is the difference between scale in ini file and encoder scale in .hal file
[16:24:39] <anonimasu> pcw_home: can you use the 8i20 with emc?
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[16:31:15] <jdhNC> anyone tried changing the AVR analog in Vref really low on an arduino?
[16:32:25] <pcw_home> Yes 8I20 works with EMC (2.5 only)
[16:33:33] <anonimasu> nice!
[16:33:38] <anonimasu> will that work with a allen bradley ac servo?
[16:34:05] <anonimasu> MPL-B420P-MK22AA
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[16:37:45] <anonimasu> mhm, absolute encoder motors...
[16:38:09] <anonimasu> less nice.
[16:38:13] <pcw_home> Do you have specs?
[16:38:23] <anonimasu> http://ab.rockwellautomation.com/Motion-Control/MP-Series-Servo-Motors#/tab5
[16:39:34] <anonimasu> 3 phase motor uvw phases avaiable
[16:39:37] <anonimasu> absolute encoders
[16:40:49] <anonimasu> that scares me
[16:40:50] <anonimasu> :S
[16:43:09] <pcw_home> Looks like a 460 V motor so nogo with 8I20 (you would be limited to 1/2 speed)
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[16:43:10] <pcw_home> Acualyy absolut is good if its something standard that can be interfaced to
[16:43:27] <anonimasu> pcw_home: that's no problem
[16:43:34] <pcw_home> actually absolute
[16:44:01] <anonimasu> how can I interface that with emc?
[16:44:25] <pcw_home> First you would need encoder specs
[16:44:38] <anonimasu> looks like rs422 or ssi
[16:44:59] <anonimasu> (both)
[16:45:40] <pcw_home> ok SSi is supported by HostMot2 firmware but it needs driver support (should be pretty easy)
[16:45:58] <anonimasu> I woudlnt mind programming on my own if it's possible at all
[16:48:05] <pcw_home> I think KimK is working wit our resolver interface ist as similar driver requirements (position is absolute - this needs to EMC adjustments for homing etc)
[16:48:39] <pcw_home> with , it has
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[16:49:08] <anonimasu> but hm, why dont I call ab and ask.
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[17:03:19] <anonimasu> slooow tech support
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[17:13:05] <anonimasu> damn I cant call 800 numbers in us
[17:24:08] <Vq> huh?
[17:34:39] <anonimasu> :S
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[17:37:20] <Tom_itx> do you need to?
[17:38:47] <anonimasu> need info on my encoders
[17:38:49] <anonimasu> /motor
[17:46:35] <anonimasu> forever on hold
[17:46:38] * anonimasu sighs
[18:03:18] <anonimasu> pcw_home: seems like they have no info on the protocol
[18:04:11] <anonimasu> it's rs485 physically
[18:05:08] <anonimasu> tho there's a sin/cos output from the encoder
[18:06:25] <anonimasu> I will reverse engineer it.
[18:06:32] <anonimasu> and I'll put the damn specs on the internet.
[18:06:41] <anonimasu> fuck you allen bradley.,
[18:07:00] <anonimasu> or use the sin/cos to drive it, and use a external encoder
[18:07:30] <anonimasu> tho drives are 395$ on ebay :)
[18:29:35] <skunkworks_> it is going to be wierd having the decking in.... http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/decking2.jpg
[18:31:51] <cradek> anonimasu: be careful or the bastards will encrypt it or something next
[18:32:29] <cradek> skunkworks_: is the wet-dry vac a permanent fixture on this machine?
[18:32:35] <skunkworks_> heh - no.
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[18:35:45] <skunkworks_> slight mod in kecking where the 'new' servos are
[18:35:49] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/decking3.jpg
[18:35:56] <skunkworks_> *decking
[18:36:42] <skunkworks_> the square opening to the left is where the chip conveyor will come out. - you can see in the upper left the grating where the chips fall.
[18:37:17] <skunkworks_> the decking to the left still needs to be fitted
[18:39:03] <skunkworks_> what the wet/dry vac is sitting on is the way covers. Stainless tin with aluminum ribs rivited to the bottom - rolls up like a shade/
[18:42:10] <Connor> skunkworks Is that machine for a full machine shop.. or hobby or what?
[18:42:31] <skunkworks_> actually - initally the ribs where glued. I think I spent a few weekends riviting the ribs back on because the glue failed
[18:42:46] <skunkworks_> Connor: dads retirement fun ;)
[18:42:57] <skunkworks_> hobby
[18:43:04] <Connor> OMG.
[18:43:07] <skunkworks_> some people have boats
[18:43:14] <Connor> Are you freaking kidding me?
[18:43:38] <Tom_itx> i'd have 10 of em if i could
[18:44:57] <archivist> nothing wrong with big toys :)
[18:45:27] <Tom_itx> horizontal mill?
[18:45:33] <skunkworks_> few manual lathes, manual mill, some grinders, one broken cnc lathe - ready to convert and the K&T - oh and a gantry router. Then there is the wood working barn....
[18:45:55] <skunkworks_> Tom_itx: the k&t? yes
[18:46:44] <skunkworks_> all pretty old stuff. but works wonderfully
[18:47:27] <Tom_itx> how many tools?
[18:47:38] <skunkworks_> Tom_itx: few hundred
[18:47:44] <Tom_itx> on the changer
[18:47:48] <skunkworks_> 60
[18:48:25] <skunkworks_> Tom_itx: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
[18:49:34] <Tom_itx> i've seen that one i think
[18:52:31] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Does the tool changer only turn one direction?
[18:52:52] <skunkworks_> yes
[18:52:58] <Jymmm> bummer
[18:53:16] <cradek> it uses the reader to locate the tool, so only that direction makes sense
[18:54:40] <Jymmm> What, can't configure it to realize that it's offset when direction changes? Seem it would speed up the process
[18:55:15] <cradek> with his current setup the machine doesn't know where the tools are at all. he could do a different kind of setup where EMC remembers where they are.
[18:55:29] <cradek> (both have their advantages)
[18:56:46] <Jymmm> Well, if he loaded it with tools like 123412341234 then no problem the way it is =)
[18:57:14] <Jymmm> and you wouldn't have to wait a full rotation =)
[18:57:50] <skunkworks_> right
[18:57:55] <skunkworks_> not an issue at the moment
[18:58:32] <Jymmm> What was that machine originally used for?
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[19:10:52] <skunkworks_> Jymmm: we had a manufaturing company - trane - (yes the trane that makes air conditioners) and they used 2 of these machines for making their compressor units.
[19:11:01] <skunkworks_> in the area
[19:11:19] <skunkworks_> they threw them out and we bougth them for the price of scrap metal
[19:11:22] <Jymmm> ah
[19:12:02] <skunkworks_> they were delivered in the late 60's and they threw them out in the mid 80's
[19:12:36] <Connor> two of them ?
[19:12:44] <Connor> Did you install both?
[19:12:50] <Connor> or use one for parts for the other ?
[19:13:19] <Tom_itx> maybe i'll get this mpg interface board done this evening
[19:14:07] <skunkworks_> Connor: we where going to - have both pits and everyting.. but decided to use one for parts. (can't really get parts anymore ;))
[19:14:27] <Connor> No, put you probably could make them on itself. :)
[19:14:59] <Connor> How accurate is it ?
[19:18:02] <skunkworks_> Connor: http://www.youtube.com/user/samcoinc#p/u/20/FgOqEz5Tk-Y
[19:19:20] <Connor> Nice
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[19:29:17] <Connor> 60960 counts per inch? wow.
[19:29:33] <Connor> what pitch is the lead screw ?
[19:30:09] <skunkworks_> the ball screw is 3tpi and we are running about a 2:1 reduction to the servos.
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[19:30:32] <Connor> 3? Dang, that's pretty low.
[19:31:04] <skunkworks_> the servos peak at 40ft-lbs - so at the ball screw they have 80ft'lbs.
[19:31:42] <Connor> My X and Y are 5mm per turn.
[19:32:47] <skunkworks_> it gives us about 4 ton of push. iirc
[19:34:19] <skunkworks_> Connor: what do you have?
[19:34:29] <Connor> machine ?
[19:34:32] <skunkworks_> yes
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[19:34:39] <Connor> Oh. my little DIY CNC Router.
[19:34:44] <skunkworks_> ah - cool
[19:35:01] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc
[19:35:38] <Connor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCNPz1ULUHI
[19:36:30] <skunkworks_> Connor: very cool!
[19:38:17] <skunkworks_> this was my first conversion... http://electronicsam.com/video/MVC-413W.MPG
[19:38:18] <skunkworks_> :)
[19:39:25] <skunkworks_> http://electronicsam.com/video/VIDEO1.mpeg
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[19:39:51] <skunkworks_> (turbocnc - really did not work well for me)
[19:40:50] <skunkworks_> cradek: http://electronicsam.com/video/threading.avi
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[19:51:45] <tom3p_> i like a lot of the python expansion of rs274-ngc, but it all hangs off the rs274, further entrenching emc with gcode rather than opening it to other command files.
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[20:03:14] <ssi> skunkworks_: you're such a showoff ;)
[20:03:53] -!- mikegg has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[20:04:23] <archivist> ssi, thats what irc is for!
[20:04:29] <ssi> true!
[20:07:32] <skunkworks_> :)
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[20:14:49] <cradek> skunkworks_: that's old...
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[20:15:24] <skunkworks_> cradek: yes - I think from one of the fests in galesberg. (might be one of the first treading videos of emc)
[20:15:37] <skunkworks_> *threading
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[20:39:27] <Connor> Sorry, my lunch showed up.. done eating now. ;)
[20:40:14] <Connor> skunkworks What kind of machine was that ?
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[20:51:59] <skunkworks_> it was a x/y table mounted on a small drill press
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[20:55:13] <Connor> Was going to say.. that's what it looked like.. I have a X/Y from sears.. I was going to do that with.. but... decided to buy the G0704 mill.
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[21:07:09] <ssi> good choice :P
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[21:22:29] <ssi> anyone have any experience with CNC knurling?
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[21:22:49] <ssi> more specifically, how do you go about finding speeds and feeds for a knurl
[21:23:42] <archivist> ssi I cheated, I helical milled a knurl
[21:23:45] <Tom_itx> is it a follower or a double geared knurl?
[21:24:22] <Tom_itx> i presume it's a lathe tool
[21:24:35] <Connor> ssi: Yea, I can't wait for it to show up.. I know people have been waiting since December to get theirs..
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[21:26:19] <nicko> hello all
[21:26:26] <andypugh> Hi
[21:28:36] <nicko> Andy, hello! I know you've helped me a bit in the past -
[21:29:16] <nicko> I'm deciding between either a servotogo PCI card or a Mesa 5I22 and 7I33 combo
[21:29:32] <nicko> wondering if anyone has had experience of the two ...
[21:29:48] <Connor> okay, so question with pendants and control consoles. How do most people setup Their resolution select switch .1 .01 and .001 is .0001 ever used ?
[21:30:10] <Connor> also, how does one go about mm vs inch when it comes to the resolution switch..
[21:30:35] <ssi> Tom_itx: yea it's a lathe tool, and it's just a cruddy fixed-wheel follower
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[21:30:42] <nicko> I know on the console we use at work in metric that .001 is hardly ever used
[21:30:50] <Tom_itx> just take it in and dwell a bit and back off
[21:31:01] <Connor> When I was playing with pendant stuff last night.. I had to set the config to use mm instead of inch.
[21:31:12] <Tom_itx> why?
[21:31:25] <ssi> hrm
[21:31:26] <Connor> Because my machine is based in metric..
[21:31:34] <Tom_itx> oh
[21:31:35] <ssi> what about for lengths longer than the wheel width?
[21:31:37] <Connor> even though I use inch mostly.
[21:32:08] <Tom_itx> if it's free spinning, it should follow the bar but ours didn't feed any they were stationary so i'm not sure
[21:32:47] <Tom_itx> don't leave it on too long or too deep or the diamond will chip off
[21:33:03] <ssi> I'm just gonna be knurling aluminum for starters
[21:33:08] <ssi> 1/2" dia rod
[21:33:21] <ssi> I wonder if I'm going to need to support the free end
[21:33:36] <Tom_itx> on alum you might
[21:33:51] <Tom_itx> unless the knurl is near the chuck
[21:33:58] <ssi> it'll be within 2" of the chuck
[21:34:04] <ssi> maybe even closer
[21:34:14] <ssi> and in a 5C collet
[21:34:23] <archivist> use a double roller one so the load is balanced
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[21:36:25] <Connor> Any good place to get a good 3 or 4 jaw lathe chuck that can work with a R8 Collet ?
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[21:37:52] <Connor> When you doing a profile cut on a mill.. How do you keep from damaging the table? I know on my router.. I use the spoiler board...
[21:38:06] <ssi> fixturing
[21:38:32] <Connor> you don't let is sit right on the table?
[21:38:33] <archivist> add a bit of spare under the lump
[21:38:55] <Connor> parallel bars or something ?
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[21:39:10] <archivist> depends....
[21:39:28] <Connor> I need to read up on general machining...
[21:39:46] <Connor> I had a little exp with a lathe.. nothing with a mill...
[21:39:57] <Connor> and of course.. my router isn't quite the same thing. :)
[21:40:06] <archivist> for a long while my parallel bars have been lifting the B axis up a bit
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[21:43:49] <nicko> anyone online have any experience with the servotogo boards and/or the Mesa line ?
[21:44:10] <ssi> i'm running a mesa
[21:44:58] <andypugh> There are lots of Mesa users here.
[21:45:30] <andypugh> It's probably the second most popular interface after the bare parport.
[21:45:41] <andypugh> There are also the Pico Systems boards.
[21:46:18] <archivist> I dont remember servotogo ever being mentioned
[21:48:14] <andypugh> It's on the "Supported Hardware" list
[21:48:16] <archivist> do you mean servo to go
[21:48:27] <nicko> Yes, Servo to go
[21:48:44] <nicko> I have two applications
[21:48:50] * archivist just googling and recognised...old isa card!
[21:49:07] <nicko> EMC2 - 4 axis mill with a servo-spindle
[21:49:10] <andypugh> Looks expensive compared to the Mesa alternative
[21:49:50] <nicko> Agree - it does look expensive compared - also concerned about the lack of talk at places such as here
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[21:50:18] <andypugh> When did you last see a motherboard with an ISA slot to plug it in to?
[21:50:30] <archivist> yesterday
[21:50:40] <andypugh> I was talking to normal folk.
[21:50:45] <nicko> heh heh
[21:50:47] <archivist> was in a plastic bag in the shed
[21:51:06] <nicko> ISA ? oh dear - ok, theres one assumption I made - its not PCI ?
[21:51:11] <archivist> I am NOT striving to be normal
[21:51:36] <andypugh> No, Servo To Go appears to be an ISA card.
[21:51:44] <nicko> ok,
[21:52:13] <andypugh> Is your mill stepper-motor or servo?
[21:52:14] <nicko> well - I'm trying to cut down on looking up stuff on the net - so its looks like Mesa is go
[21:52:20] <nicko> Servo
[21:52:40] <andypugh> 0-10V (or +/-10V) amps?
[21:52:50] <nicko> the 5I22 card - can it take 2 7I33 analog I/O daughter cards
[21:53:26] <nicko> I need to look it up properly on some of the drives but I know at least two of them are +/-
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[21:53:52] <andypugh> I think that the 5i22 can take 4 7i33s
[21:53:57] <nicko> Granite VSD's - Allen Bradley Ultra3000 and a Kollmorgen servostarCD
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[21:54:23] <nicko> Thats what I thought - yes 4 - I'll start with 1 then end up with 2
[21:54:58] <andypugh> I would consider the 5i23 instead of 5i23. You lose a header, but save a fair chunk of cash.
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[21:55:17] <andypugh> (Err, instead of the 5i22)
[21:56:47] <andypugh> I _think_ you should be able to use the 7i49 (6-channel) card on one header.
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[21:57:08] <andypugh> Oops, no, not that one, I mean 7i48
[21:57:17] <nicko> yeh, thats resolver inout
[21:57:23] <nicko> input
[21:58:04] <nicko> ah, interesting
[21:58:26] <nicko> I wonder why Peter didn't mention it
[21:58:33] <nicko> I have two projects
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[21:58:53] <nicko> one a CNC mill - EMC2 4 axis and servo based spindle
[21:58:56] <andypugh> Only supported by EMC2 version 2.5 and higher, but that is available even if it is technically a development branch.
[22:00:01] <nicko> the 5I22 or 5I23 - cant I just download the latest version and I'm good to go ?
[22:00:42] <andypugh> It is even possible to use the 7i65, but that is _very_ development. (as in, there are only two of us with a version of EMC2 that can run it)
[22:01:07] <andypugh> Yes, 5i23 and 5i22 are supported by fully-mainstream versions of EMC2.
[22:01:22] <nicko> cool - I;m trying to keep it simple while I;m learning
[22:01:37] <nicko> the other project is general motion control outside of EMC2
[22:01:47] <andypugh> But the 7i48 uses a multiplexed encoder function that is only supported in the 2.5 branch.
[22:02:01] <nicko> my own applications
[22:02:09] <andypugh> I am pretty sure you can download a pre-compiled 2.5 package.
[22:02:14] <nicko> I'll keep it simple and go with 2x 7I33
[22:02:23] <nicko> then I'll have 8 axes anyway
[22:03:07] <nicko> it's a dollar more per axis :)
[22:03:48] <nicko> Has anyone used the anything I/O cards outside of EMC ?
[22:04:16] <andypugh> I am pretty sure that, if you make a split-out ribbon cable connector, you can use the unused encoder pins (etc) as GPIO id you need to. But 24 pins of general purpose IO on the spare connector is almost certainly ample.
[22:04:40] <nicko> Has anyone used the anything I/O cards outside of EMC ? under RTlinux or RTAI ?
[22:05:02] <nicko> my own projects could be up to 8 axis ...
[22:05:03] <andypugh> I am sure that many hundreds of people have, but probably none of them hang out on the EMC2 IRC channel :-)
[22:05:15] <nicko> ok, true
[22:05:34] <nicko> but I don't know where to find them - here is a good start
[22:05:55] <nicko> where could I intiate discussion with likely suspects ?
[22:06:16] <andypugh> I _have_ used the cards using only HAL and the EMC2 hostmot2 driver. (for testing).
[22:07:31] <andypugh> Where would your motion-control instructions originate from?
[22:07:46] <nicko> As I understand it HAL and RTAI are if not the 'same thing' very related in either purpose or in some cause and effect manner ?
[22:08:31] <andypugh> Not really, no.
[22:08:48] <andypugh> RTAI is a very general-purpose realtime environment.
[22:08:54] <nicko> the motion profiles if thats what you refer to are pulled from Maya, a 3D program - either in its GUI in close enough to real time (preferred), or by accessing a file of information that it outputs
[22:09:49] <andypugh> Is there a Linux version of Maya?
[22:09:57] <andypugh> (I know there is a Mac version, I have it)
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[22:10:08] <nicko> the idea, if I'm on the right track is that Maya has a great GUI for building virtual physical systems then animating them and having access to all the positional and velocity information right there with no extra effort
[22:10:18] <nicko> There is a Linux version yes
[22:10:50] <nicko> I'd build a plug in that asks maya for the info, then communicates it to the real world
[22:11:08] <nicko> the plug in would run 'real time'
[22:11:31] <nicko> and output the info that the Mesa cards require
[22:11:40] <nicko> the drives would close the loop
[22:12:23] <andypugh> You can almost certainly hook Maya into HAL, and so use parts of EMC2 (like the Hostmot2 driver, HAL logic and functions, etc) but not the GUIs.
[22:12:36] <andypugh> Close the loop in HAL...
[22:12:39] <nicko> but I'd have encoder inout back into the application also so I could potentially program the moves in reverse - i.e. let the drives/servos freewheel and encode the motion
[22:13:29] <nicko> I dont need the EMC2 GUI in that case - maya would be it in some ways - or I could make my own hardware UI
[22:13:43] <nicko> nothing wrong with big old buttons and flashing lights right ?
[22:14:11] <andypugh> At the deepest level, the HAL pins are just addresses in shared memory. There is no reason that your Maya plug-in couldn't fit into the system in the same place as the Axis GUI does.
[22:14:29] <nicko> hmmm
[22:14:32] <nicko> cool
[22:14:38] <nicko> might save a bit of work
[22:15:21] <andypugh> Your plug-in could simply call the RTAI pin-creation functions, then you could hook them up in HAL.
[22:15:35] <andypugh> But that is just one of several ways to do it.
[22:15:40] <nicko> good
[22:16:04] <nicko> this is going to be damn fun
[22:16:19] <andypugh> Yes, it does sound it.
[22:16:39] <nicko> So if I wanted to record free wheeling servos encoder outputs over time - its all doable isn't it ?
[22:16:53] <andypugh> Yes.
[22:17:11] <andypugh> Everything is doable, it's just software and you have access to the source.
[22:18:47] <nicko> It'd be brilliant to have parts of the physical system programmed in Maya, then play them - whilst otehr axes are being run by encoder wheels that are being recorded at the same time - ...aaaaand at the same time the physical axes that are beong recorded are following the encoder wheels
[22:19:36] <andypugh> I think I would probably write a HAL component (in C, Comp is a bit limiting) that exports some functions that the Maya plug-in can call to pass position information into HAL. Then use conventional EMC2 HAL PID controllers and feedback to run the actual motion, using the normal EMC2 Hostmo2 driver.
[22:20:06] <nicko> The bulk of prgramming I've done is mostly Maya scripting in its own language 'MEL' - which I've been told is like C
[22:20:45] <nicko> What is 'Comp' ?
[22:21:06] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_comp.html
[22:24:33] <nicko> what are you using EMC for ?
[22:26:33] <andypugh> Entertainment, mainly.
[22:27:12] <andypugh> I was going to make a clock, but now making CNC machines and fiddling with mesa card drivers is a hobby in itself.
[22:27:34] <Valen> maya works in linux now?
[22:27:49] <Valen> interesting
[22:28:18] <Valen> i hate to think of what it costs
[22:28:53] <andypugh> It's free?
[22:29:18] <Valen> maya for windows is noted for its price
[22:29:24] <Valen> think mastercam
[22:30:22] <andypugh> It used to be the case that you could download Maya for free for non-commercial / training use.
[22:30:37] <andypugh> http://usa.autodesk.com/maya/trial/
[22:30:53] <andypugh> It seems now that you only get 30 days
[22:34:09] <andypugh> It also appears that you can download watermarked versions of _all_ autodesk products if you are a student.
[22:35:46] <jdhNC> yeah, the watermark is in the dwg and if you print
[22:36:10] <jdhNC> dxf's are ok though.
[22:38:46] <nicko> I just ordered the cards on the phone
[22:38:53] <nicko> I got the 5I22
[22:39:06] <nicko> they only have the 1.5M in stock
[22:39:15] <nicko> lucky me - I asked for the 1M version
[22:39:25] <nicko> and they are going to send the 1.5 at the same cost
[22:40:24] <nicko> Andy - when you say 'entertainment' - do you also mean the entertainment industry ?
[22:40:30] <nicko> or just for kicks ?
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[22:44:47] <andypugh> Just for kicks.
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[22:46:34] <nicko> what are some of the other ways to go about using HAL to link my Maya plug to the mesa cards I/O ?
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[22:50:35] <Valen> python perhaps?
[22:50:51] <andypugh> You could shell out to bash commands (halrun setp pid.0.command-in 1000)
[22:51:17] <andypugh> Sorry, that would be halcmd setp....
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[23:29:29] <emcrules_mill> I got probing setup on my mill now very happy
[23:29:32] <emcrules_mill> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnytFtjeTfs
[23:32:25] <JT-Shop> cool
[23:33:07] <JT-Shop> and ngcgui :)
[23:33:57] <emcrules_mill> yep now i need to writ a probe routine to probe x and y faces and align a work fixture to the part
[23:36:43] <JT-Shop> once you get the subs worked out and trust them it is very easy to do things
[23:37:17] <JT-Shop> I need to make some gif's showing what each entry is for some of mine
[23:37:36] <archivist> that what we need to cuddle mach3 users with
[23:38:01] <JT-Shop> fancy fluff and stuff?
[23:39:48] <emcrules_mill> yeah ngcgui makes using frequent sub's handy
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[23:39:54] <ssi> JT-Shop: I played with that od-profile sub that someone put up on the forum a little bit
[23:40:06] <ssi> seems to work ok, but cuts a lot of air
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[23:41:23] <JT-Shop> ssi: must have set the start diameter too big
[23:42:26] <ssi> nah
[23:42:38] <ssi> if you're turning small diameters and big diameters in the same profile,
[23:42:45] <ssi> it'll cut air for a while "working down"
[23:42:52] <ssi> on the larger diameters
[23:43:07] <JT-Shop> ah profile! I was thinking od sorry
[23:43:25] <JT-Shop> yea, it is not very optimal but works
[23:43:28] <emcrules_mill> anyone have a good thread milling sub?
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[23:43:56] <ssi> I was thinking on ways to make it better
[23:44:02] <ssi> but I am not sure I have it in me :(
[23:44:06] <JT-Shop> ssi: please do
[23:44:26] <JT-Shop> emcrules_mill: I've not seen one
[23:44:49] <ssi> actually, if I were properly motivated and smart enough
[23:44:55] <ssi> I'd love to implement the G70/G71 cycles
[23:45:43] <JT-Shop> all lathe folks would like that
[23:46:17] <ssi> yeah
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[23:48:01] <ssi> dammit
[23:48:03] <ssi> this keyboard's had it :(
[23:48:43] <archivist> emcrules_mill, its a one liker on my mill :) I rotate A
[23:49:10] <archivist> liner
[23:51:24] <archivist> G1 F.3 x.225 Y#20 Z#5 A#1
[23:51:56] <archivist> ok a few lines to calculate the variables :)
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[23:55:16] <ssi> what kind of tool do you use for that
[23:55:27] <l0st1nsp4c3> hey guys quick question I bought a g540 gecko drive not long ago and I'm looking at wiring the db9 ends...i have 4 wire shielded cable for the motors and was wondering should I ground the shielding to the outside of the db9 connector? and also i'm guessing i should put my current set resistor as close to on the circuit as possible (like directly in the db-9 connector that's going in the g540 end and not all the way at the motor?
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[23:56:37] <andypugh> Yes to both, I would say.
[23:56:37] <ssi> l0st1nsp4c3: I would put the current set resistor at the connector on the 540, and ground the shielding to the shell only at the 540 end
[23:56:44] <archivist> ssi either a threading lathe tip fitted to a rotating tool or a tool ground for the job
[23:57:02] <l0st1nsp4c3> ok
[23:57:32] <l0st1nsp4c3> cause i thought of putting the resistor on the motor end but then my 4 wire cable wouldn't be enought i'd need 6...then i thought but the loss of the length of cable would change my resistance value
[23:57:34] <l0st1nsp4c3> hehehe
[23:57:53] <emcrules_mill> ssi http://www.kometgroup.com/en/tools-navigation/tools/gewinden/gewindefraeser.html
[23:57:57] <ssi> I don't think there's enough currnt through it to make a difference
[23:58:05] <l0st1nsp4c3> so I guess i'll solder the shied directly to the db-9 outside shell on the g540 end and put the resistor on the g540 end as well
[23:58:40] <ssi> without an A axis do you need a G33 move to do that?
[23:58:44] <archivist> ssi top left pic is the tooling http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage6/
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[23:59:18] <l0st1nsp4c3> well thanks for your info guys =)
[23:59:42] <l0st1nsp4c3> also anybody know on the g540 if i don't use the A axis is it ok to have the driver running without anything connected to the a axis??
[23:59:46] <ssi> archivist: nice