#emc | Logs for 2011-04-29

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[00:05:35] <jdhNC> what is a 7i49?
[00:06:07] <jdhNC> everytime I look at the mesa web site, I just give up.
[00:07:55] <atom1> 6 channel analog servo interface - resolver input
[00:08:02] <atom1> from the price sheet
[00:08:54] <jdhNC> I guess if you need one, you know what it is.
[00:09:10] <atom1> not really
[00:09:20] <atom1> i get rather confused on their website too
[00:09:20] <jdhNC> 6 channels, so 2 motors?
[00:09:21] <andypugh> No, I think that they could be easier to find, and a lot easier to buy.
[00:09:34] <jdhNC> they are impossible to buy.
[00:09:37] <andypugh> 6 motors
[00:10:09] <atom1> i vote for a table of features
[00:10:20] <atom1> parametric search maybe?
[00:10:24] <atom1> heck if i know
[00:10:46] <andypugh> Not impossible, I have bought from them, and from the UK too. But it seems easier to offer to write drivers and to wait for the samples :-)
[00:11:37] <atom1> well without help here i'd have never figured out what i need
[00:11:46] <atom1> so yay for here
[00:12:17] <andypugh> Yay for PCW being here, mainly
[00:12:58] <jdhNC> I think I would be happy with a 5i20 and two 7i37TA'a
[00:13:04] <jdhNC> but, wtf knows
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[00:13:41] <andypugh> 5i23 is a slightly more capable 5i20 for not a lot more
[00:13:54] <jdhNC> ok
[00:13:56] <andypugh> jdhNC: What's your hardware?
[00:14:18] <jdhNC> ?
[00:14:24] <jdhNC> I have no hardware at the moment
[00:14:45] <andypugh> It probably males sense to decide on the Mesa cards last.
[00:14:48] <jdhNC> I want non-pc stepgens
[00:14:58] <atom1> it's ask a guru time
[00:15:09] <jdhNC> for steppers, then at some point, servos.... and lots of IO
[00:15:17] <andypugh> You can do that with a bare 7i43.
[00:15:44] <andypugh> I have headers from the 7i43 direct to the stepper drives.
[00:15:57] <KimK> andypugh: OK, I'm back. Sorry that took so long. I just sent you an email with the 7i49 files attached.
[00:16:05] <andypugh> I saw.
[00:16:28] <KimK> atom1, jdhNC: ask away
[00:16:39] <jdhNC> KimK: I just did :)
[00:16:52] <KimK> excellent!
[00:17:37] <jdhNC> your 7i49 is 6 motors?
[00:17:48] <jdhNC> or two 3-phase motors?
[00:18:30] <atom1> well i've somewhat decided on the 7i43 myself
[00:18:48] <KimK> andypugh: I'm not sure if that's what you're interested in, but that's all I have. You'll no doubt need some time to look the files over.
[00:18:50] <atom1> unless there's an equivalent pci 5ixx card
[00:18:52] <jdhNC> nevermind, that's the wrong car
[00:19:24] <jdhNC> atom1: it looks to me like a 5i23 is kind of like a pci 7i43?
[00:19:49] <atom1> right now for the basic 3 stepper with 3 axis home
[00:20:14] <atom1> future expansion would be a servo upgrade
[00:20:29] <andypugh> jdhNC: 7i43 is a nice (and cheap) solution for a stepper system. It connects to the parallel port (so you don't need 96 wires from the PC to the drive box) and does all that the other cards do for a fraction of the price. It does it slower (bit easily fast enough for a CNC machine) and only has 48IO pins. But for $80 you can afford to treat it as a super-capable P-Port breakout and wire direct.
[00:20:35] <atom1> jdhNC, that's somewhat what i figured
[00:20:43] <KimK> jdhNC: I have a loaner 7i49, it is 6 resolvers in and 6 analog control out. So, 6-axis motion, provided you're working with resolvers and analog drives.
[00:21:18] <jdhNC> KimK: cool... I was confused by the number and thought it was somethign else.
[00:21:33] <andypugh> The numbers make no sense.
[00:23:02] <KimK> andypugh: The numbers in the attached files?
[00:23:11] <andypugh> 7i64 == Smart Serial 24 x 50V inputs + 24 X 2A output drivers. 7i65 == Octo-Servo interface. 7i43 == FPGA parallel card.
[00:23:15] <jdhNC> I'm confused by the categories on teh web site
[00:24:02] <KimK> andypugh: Ah, I see. Nevermind.
[00:24:27] <KimK> jdhNC: Which categories?
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[00:25:13] <jdhNC> parallel IO - mis i/o, anything io, motion control, etc
[00:25:32] <andypugh> You need one of the "Anything IO" FPGA cards. the supported ones are 7i43 (P-port) 5i20, 5i22, 5i23 (PCI) and 3x20 (PCI-ext)
[00:26:04] <andypugh> I think KimK called those "mothercards" and that fits.
[00:26:53] <andypugh> You then can connect the "Daughter" cards and most of the "Motion Control" cards.
[00:27:24] <jdhNC> assuming you could buy them.
[00:27:33] <KimK> andypugh: Sorry, Andy, perhaps cable company firewalling? I have had trouble with DCC before, not sure if it has ever worked.
[00:27:56] <andypugh> "Daughter Cards" are largely logic and signal level conversion. Ie PWM to voltage opto-isolation etc. Motion COntrol cards do serious power stuff in the main
[00:28:33] <KimK> I can do Pidgin file transfer or email?
[00:28:47] <andypugh> No problem, here wrks
[00:29:23] <andypugh> Not sure what Pidgin is.
[00:29:58] <andypugh> jdhNC: Are you in the US?
[00:30:27] <jdhNC> yes
[00:30:44] <andypugh> <psychic> John D Hudson North Carolina?
[00:30:53] <jdhNC> heh
[00:31:03] <jdhNC> damn, you are good.
[00:31:07] <atom1> andypugh, what did you mean (PCI) and 3 x 20 (PCI-ext) ?
[00:31:10] <jdhNC> or mediocre since I made it easy
[00:31:11] <KimK> http://www.pidgin.im/ It's a free/open multi-protocol chat+ program
[00:31:29] <atom1> i gather all the 5ixx cards are pci
[00:31:36] <andypugh> I use Gmail chat, that works.
[00:31:38] <atom1> and all the 7ixx are parport
[00:32:11] <andypugh> atom1: No. Many 7i cards are not FPGA mothercards at all
[00:32:53] <andypugh> 7i39 is a BLDC driver..
[00:33:35] <andypugh> jdhNC: You need to phone or email to order.
[00:33:43] <andypugh> Bit it works.
[00:33:57] <atom1> if i went with the 7i43 then what would i need to add a pendant input for it?
[00:34:00] <andypugh> (but)
[00:34:06] <jdhNC> I understand the theory of that, but it's not going to happen... it's 2011
[00:34:37] <andypugh> Why there is no web shop, or even a few listed on eBay is a mystery to me.
[00:34:54] <atom1> they got screwed with paypal but there are other options
[00:35:10] <atom1> i sorta agree with the paypal thing but i use it
[00:35:31] <andypugh> jdhNC: Order online from .cz ? http://www.duzi.cz/shop_cnc/index.php?main_page=index&zenid=2e53a31bf8f904074cf212cc2fd2dc4f
[00:36:26] <KimK> andypugh: To arrange file transfers, I sent you a chat request via gmail/Pidgin/XMPP whatever it is. We'll see how they treat us, lol
[00:36:35] <jdhNC> andy: SOLD-OUT
[00:36:50] <atom1> ask for a rain check
[00:36:54] <andypugh> See! Somebody has bought them!
[00:37:22] <atom1> or not in production yet and they're lying
[00:37:53] <jdhNC> $64 shipping for a 7i43
[00:38:03] <atom1> hot diggety
[00:38:57] <andypugh> Well, yes, it has gone all the way from Californayay to The Czech Republic and back
[00:39:14] <atom1> why back?
[00:39:22] <jdhNC> only halfway back
[00:39:26] <andypugh> Makes no sense to buy from there unless you are desperate to buy online rather than over the phone.
[00:39:45] <atom1> is there a discount for phone orders?
[00:39:49] <atom1> :D
[00:40:34] <jdhNC> I'd buy some for work if it were less painful
[00:40:41] <atom1> andypugh, was it you that was doing the timing testing the other day?
[00:40:47] <andypugh> Yes
[00:40:52] <atom1> what did you figure out?
[00:40:59] <atom1> he didn't believe your numbers
[00:41:40] <andypugh> Basically, I don't believe any numbers.
[00:41:53] <atom1> it stands to reason the parport would be slower
[00:42:33] <andypugh> Yes, but for the sameconfigs we have 5i23 as 5k, 50k and 300k and a 7i43 at 42k.
[00:42:44] <jdhNC> and how do you share in the profits.
[00:43:14] <andypugh> ?
[00:43:21] <jdhNC> <wrong channel>
[00:43:45] <atom1> good excuse
[00:43:48] <andypugh> I thought you were getting the wrong impression from my Mesa evangelism.
[00:44:23] <jdhNC> nah... looks like great stuff, they are just kind of stuck in the 90's
[00:44:27] <atom1> no, happy customers tend to rave. principles sit back and wait for questions
[00:44:53] <atom1> jdhNC, i think that's been mentioned before
[00:45:10] <atom1> it could be easier, but it is what it is
[01:03:33] <jdhNC> wonder if they will do company PO's
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[01:23:06] <jdhNC> is there any advantage to the more expensive 7i43's vs. the cheap one?
[01:25:01] <andypugh> USB is no help with EMC2, the bigger FPGA is useful for advanced stuff, but not needed for a stepper system.
[01:25:23] <andypugh> Right, need to log. See you all in 2 weekd.
[01:25:29] <jdhNC> advanced like what?
[01:25:36] <atom1> the "h" doesn't work with emc does it?
[01:25:39] <jdhNC> could I use it for encoders also?
[01:25:53] <andypugh> Yes, encoders are not "advanced"
[01:26:10] <jdhNC> what is 'advanced' for a digital IO card?
[01:26:29] <andypugh> Smart Serial needs the big one, I think. (8i20, 7i64)
[01:27:09] <jdhNC> you are sailing next week?
[01:27:58] <andypugh> It's a lot more than a digital IO card. It does a lot of clever stuff onboard (like counting encoders, as a simple example).
[01:28:14] <andypugh> Yes, sailing. Training for a yacht race.
[01:29:46] <Jymmm> paper boat makes a yacht not
[01:29:55] <andypugh> http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/index.php/Home
[01:30:32] <Jymmm> And what andypugh REALLY means... http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_03/paperboatR2508_468x293.jpg
[01:31:20] <andypugh> Night all, I need to practice my Origami.
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[01:31:33] <Jymmm> Yes, yes you do!
[01:36:49] <PCW> smart serial will fit in small FPGAs but there are limits its tough to fit in the 7I43-200 if you have a lot of stepgens or something else big (resolver is big for example)
[01:41:57] <jdhNC> what does one do with smartserial?
[01:43:10] <Jymmm> eat it to be smarter
[01:44:54] <ssi> I'mquite happy with my 7i43
[01:45:00] <ssi> I will likely buy two more for my other conversions
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[01:49:52] <Jymmm> I like the simple elegance of the UI... http://www.planet-cnc.com/index.asp?page=shop
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[01:53:13] <atom1> http://www.mesasystemsco.com/category.php?cat=4
[01:53:14] <atom1> hmm
[01:54:55] <Jymmm> s/he definitely plagiarized the AXIS look though
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[01:57:21] <Jymmm> PS2DXF and PDF2DXF... http://www.noliturbare.com/convert/ghostfriend-formerly-gobatchgs
[01:57:43] <Jymmm> PLT2DXF too
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[02:32:42] <PCW> Smartserial is a low overhead (for EMC/HAL) interface to serial peripherals (field I/O. drives, pendant interfaces etc)
[02:32:44] <PCW> so instead of using the FPGA GPIO bits connected to an isolator card like the 7I37TA with a parallel cable,
[02:32:46] <PCW> you use a 7I66 that connects via isolated RS-422, but retains the real time access from EMC (up to 10 KHz update rates)
[02:38:45] <jdhNC> the 7i66 has the actual IO, and some other oddly numbered card controls it?
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[02:48:55] <Gensor> I would enjoy a simple video, no sound, showing how the mesa components can be physically hooked up. Maybe some minimal text.
[02:49:20] <atom1> what page is the 7i66 listed on?
[02:50:10] <jdhNC> go to the price list, search for the part number, see what section it is in.
[02:52:58] <jdhNC> that didnt' work
[02:57:25] <factor> Where is a basic schematic of a x y z stepper motor setup?
[02:57:29] <pcw_home> its new probably will be included in the price list next week
[02:58:01] <jdhNC> there are two 7i66's in the price list now, but that's the only place htey exist
[02:58:14] <atom1> with a 7i43 what would i need to add a pendant?
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[02:59:08] <atom1> 7i43 for basic stepper cnc control with home switches etc
[02:59:37] <pcw_home> what included with the pendant? just a MPG and a few buttons or something fancier?
[03:00:00] <atom1> don't have one yet so in answer, a basic one
[03:00:26] <atom1> i've seen a few posted here that caught my eye
[03:00:35] <atom1> with lcd etc
[03:01:07] <atom1> i know i asked once but lost all my logs in a crash
[03:01:13] <pcw_home> Most of a simple pendants could be wired to GPIO bits, maybe using an encoder input if you use a high res encoder for the MPG
[03:01:44] <jdhNC> most I've seen are only 100count
[03:02:02] <atom1> i think you mentioned something once that took the 2channel quad in
[03:02:08] <pcw_home> We have a Smart Serial pendant interface card coming out (7I73)
[03:02:21] <atom1> what's it plug into?
[03:02:50] <jdhNC> $69 for a 7i73
[03:03:01] <pcw_home> it supports up to 4 MPGs(or 8 analogs) , up to 64 key keypad and LCD
[03:03:42] <pcw_home> Price is not set yet. I think it will be something like $39.00
[03:04:10] <jdhNC> 7I73 LBP real time remote pendant controller 69 55 52 50
[03:04:34] <atom1> i'm looking at parport with the 7i43 for steppers and wanting to add a pendant
[03:04:37] <jdhNC> the price guy got ahead of the web guy
[03:04:42] <pcw_home> Yes thats preliminary
[03:05:12] <jdhNC> you should trade some hardware for a web overhaul
[03:05:13] <atom1> tell the web guy he needs to step up his game
[03:05:17] <atom1> :)
[03:05:32] <pcw_home> you need at least one RS422 interface for smart serial
[03:05:48] <atom1> what's that plug into?
[03:06:03] <atom1> is it a daughter card for the 7i43?
[03:06:08] <pcw_home> Most of our customers are OEMs with purchase orders
[03:06:38] <pcw_home> Its a remote RS422 card (about 2x3")
[03:08:43] <pcw_home> so for example if you used a 7I47 for a buffered step drive interface, you could used a free RS422I/O for the pendant
[03:09:57] <atom1> so the 7i43 and 7i47 would get it done
[03:10:33] <jdhNC> what is the interface from the pc to the 7i47?
[03:10:34] <atom1> and i'd wire the stepper drives thru the 7i47
[03:10:47] <atom1> it's a daughter card as i see it
[03:10:54] <factor> Anyone have a url of a schematic that works with emc
[03:11:58] <pcw_home> 7I47 is a daughter card you connect to the 7I43 (or other FPGA card)
[03:12:07] <jdhNC> factor: I have no idea what you mean by that.
[03:12:30] <factor> I want to make my own PCB for hooking to the printer port.
[03:13:43] <jdhNC> pcw: the 7i47 would use 24 of the 48 gpio's on the 7i43?
[03:14:32] <atom1> or buffer them as i understand it
[03:14:42] <pcw_home> factor: You can probably glean the standard connections by reading one of the HAL files
[03:15:13] <factor> Linistepper look slike a good one
[03:15:36] <pcw_home> Yes it connect to one connector and uses 24 IO for 12 RS-422 outputs and 12 RS-422 inputs
[03:15:44] <factor> Just uses one pic 628 , of which I have a bunch of them
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[03:19:37] <jdhNC> if you are driving a stepper with some of those 24, is it still an RS422 line?
[03:19:45] <pcw_home> so the 7I47s RS-422 outputs can be used single ended or differentially for step/dir or PWM or Smartserial TX or whatever
[03:19:46] <pcw_home> and the RS-422 inputs can be used for encoders, or Smart serial RX
[03:20:20] <pcw_home> Yes some step drives allow differential driving (for better noise immunity)
[03:20:50] <jdhNC> so RS422 is just a signal level, it doesn't denote communications or anything?
[03:21:01] <jdhNC> maybe I just have a terminology problem
[03:21:50] <jdhNC> I think of async serial comm when I see rs-422
[03:22:15] <jdhNC> like old short haul modems & rs232 extenders, or DEC MMJ ports
[03:23:00] <pcw_home> If you have single ended only drives (with commoned or bidirectional pins) you can use just one of the outputs
[03:23:02] <pcw_home> (the drivers are 5V RS-422 drivers so you get 2 out of phase outputs) RS-422 is a signaling standard,
[03:23:04] <pcw_home> nothing to do with async sync etc
[03:25:39] <pcw_home> The 7I47 uses RS-422 drivers that swing from 0 to 5V so a single output works fine for single ended use
[03:26:12] <atom1> so you're just kinda multipurposeing it
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[03:27:32] <pcw_home> Sure with the FPGA and HostMot2 driver, each input and output can be a different thing
[03:28:21] <atom1> so with those 2 boards i still need the serial board for the pendant
[03:28:28] <atom1> the yet to be released one
[03:29:05] <jdhNC> gotcha... I've just never heard of rs-422 being used for anything other than serial IO
[03:29:31] <pcw_home> You just need the pendant board, the 7I43/7I47 is enough
[03:29:43] <atom1> ok
[03:31:08] <pcw_home> We use it for serial I/O with smart serial and UART interfaces, but encoders both incremental and absolute (SSI or BISS) use RS-422 signaling as well
[03:32:10] <jdhNC> I have a bunch of 5v encoders that put out CW/CCW/Z, can they be used with EMC easily?
[03:37:39] <pcw_home> thats weird... sure they are not normal quadrature = A,B,Z?
[03:37:59] <jdhNC> yeah
[03:38:33] <jdhNC> someone picked them years ago and that's what they went with
[03:38:58] <jdhNC> latest system had one then a cw/ccw to quad convertor added on
[03:40:39] <pcw_home> Its probably an easy hack to a hardware counter to do that, or EMCs software counter if they are low res enough
[03:41:11] <jdhNC> there are 750's and 1000's
[03:41:39] <pcw_home> counts per rev?
[03:41:42] <jdhNC> spindle encoder or something perhaps
[03:41:51] <jdhNC> yep, just counts
[03:48:09] <pcw_home> The HostMot2 counter has an up down mode but not a CW/CCW mode, doubt its more than a few minute o change it so the
[03:48:11] <pcw_home> up/down mode is replaced with a CW/CCW mode.
[03:48:13] <pcw_home> someting I don't understand: With CW,CCW what guarantees you dont get runt pulses on reversal?
[03:48:38] <jdhNC> I don't know...we only run these systems one direction.
[03:49:08] <pcw_home> Ahh...
[03:49:55] <jdhNC> it's geared 1:1 with an rotating inspection system, it fires on each encoder pulse
[03:50:32] <jdhNC> it originally went to a PDP-11 so the single pulse was probably a lot easier than decoding quad
[03:52:49] <pcw_home> I've never heard of such a thing. Single pickup wheels for seed sensing but not a incremental encoder that was not quadrature
[03:53:04] <pcw_home> s/seed/speed/
[03:55:12] <pcw_home> I'm sure there a QBUS quadature card...
[03:57:50] <jdhNC> probably, but it used the encoder pulse to start an ultrasonic pulser
[04:00:23] <jdhNC> http://tinyurl.com/3qf3r9n that was the original system
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[06:12:59] <ssi> well
[06:13:03] <ssi> VFD and motor are installed
[06:13:20] <ssi> no interface with emc yet
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[18:10:59] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,38/id,9391/limit,6/limitstart,6/lang,english/#9515
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[18:41:09] <anonimasu> mrsunshine: what was that shop for the scraping tools
[18:41:22] <anonimasu> or does anyone have a clue what I can mix engineer's blue with if it's getting a bit dry
[18:41:37] <jdhNC> mine comes in a spray can
[18:41:46] <anonimasu> the stuart micrometer blue one
[18:42:08] <jdhNC> does it smell like alcohol?
[18:42:20] <anonimasu> very little
[18:44:21] <atom1> do you?
[18:44:43] <jdhNC> not yet
[18:44:54] <atom1> try a dot of it with alcohol before you commit
[18:45:10] <anonimasu> what kind of alcohol?
[18:45:12] <anonimasu> any reference?
[18:45:13] <anonimasu> :)
[18:45:17] <anonimasu> preference
[18:45:23] <atom1> what do you have?
[18:45:36] <atom1> any should work if it's gonna
[18:45:42] <jdhNC> or water
[18:45:44] <anonimasu> I have some isopropyl alcohol
[18:45:48] <atom1> try it
[18:45:51] <jdhNC> Non abrasive and does not affect the skin, it can be wiped off metal parts and is soluble in soap, detergent and water.
[18:45:55] <atom1> i doubt it's water soluable
[18:46:07] <anonimasu> the engineers blue is not water soluable.
[18:46:11] <anonimasu> I look like a smurf
[18:46:38] <atom1> which one?
[18:46:51] <jdhNC> smurfette?
[18:47:03] <anonimasu> the old one..
[18:47:36] <anonimasu> I cant remember the original consistency of the blue either so it's kind of tricky
[18:49:49] <anonimasu> i tried some wd40, but that made it flow too well
[18:49:55] <anonimasu> since I had that around
[18:50:08] <anonimasu> but that's based on kerosene..
[18:50:52] <Jymmm> Try DNA
[18:50:56] <anonimasu> dna?
[18:51:24] <Jymmm> De Natured Alcohol, not isopropal/rubbing alcohol
[18:51:58] <anonimasu> dont got anything like that
[18:52:10] <jdhNC> vodka
[18:52:13] <Jymmm> There's also Napatha,and Xylene
[18:52:26] <anonimasu> only isopropyl and stuff for drinking
[18:52:39] <anonimasu> around
[18:52:42] <Jymmm> isopropyl contains water
[18:52:46] <Jymmm> and oil
[18:52:59] <jdhNC> anyone used alibre?
[18:53:03] <ds3> use lab grade anhydrous isopropyl
[18:53:14] <ds3> jdhNC: what about it?
[18:53:39] <Jymmm> anonimasu: whatis the name brand of bluing?
[18:53:44] <anonimasu> micrometer blue
[18:53:45] <anonimasu> stuarts
[18:54:53] <Jymmm> Stuarts Micrometer Paste
[18:54:54] <Jymmm> Oil based paste for indicating high spots on machine bearings, machine tool beds etc. Easily removable with methylated spirit.
[18:55:50] <Jymmm> anonimasu: That's DNA, so go buy a pint
[18:56:14] <Jymmm> it's good for everything anyway
[18:56:49] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:57:01] <anonimasu> so the isopropyl should work fine for that
[18:57:05] <Jymmm> Seriously, I keep a gallon around all the time.
[18:57:20] <Connor> anyone know where I can get a MPG like this in the states? http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=30 looks like CNC4PC has them.. but.. looking for another source...
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[18:57:26] <Jymmm> anonimasu: They are not the same thing.
[18:57:52] <jdhNC> I doubt you will find one much cheaper than that
[18:58:06] <Connor> problem from AU was the shipping.
[18:58:09] <anonimasu> or grab some vodka..
[18:58:37] <Jymmm> or quit being a cheap bastard, get off your ass and go buy a pint
[18:59:00] <jdhNC> Connor: get a $15 USB game controller
[18:59:09] <Connor> I have one.
[18:59:15] <anonimasu> I have vodka around also, but DNA is heavy to get here
[18:59:19] <Connor> Make a full on pendant with a LCD
[18:59:54] <Jymmm> anonimasu: heavy? go to the hardware store and pick some up
[19:00:20] <Jymmm> some drug stores have it too
[19:00:47] <jdhNC> Connor: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150595202700
[19:01:16] <anonimasu> not over here in 9:00 in the weekend
[19:02:02] <Jymmm> jdhNC: That's CNC4PC if I'm not mistaken.
[19:02:07] <anonimasu> and pure dna is not possible here
[19:02:28] <Connor> Yea. I'm looking for there OEM.. not the reseller.
[19:02:41] <anonimasu> I can get etanol, propanol
[19:02:47] <anonimasu> mixture
[19:03:02] <Jymmm> There is no such thing as PURE dna, it's all mixed with someting to make it undrinkable
[19:03:46] <anonimasu> err etanol, isopropanol mixture..
[19:05:00] <anonimasu> heh, I have a bottle
[19:05:09] <anonimasu> 95% one :)
[19:06:24] <anonimasu> that should do.
[19:06:25] <anonimasu> brb
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[20:05:32] <JT-Shop> the OEM is most likely in China for the MPG
[20:08:26] <atom1> aren't those just quad encoders?
[20:11:48] <JT-Shop> I think there is a bit more to them
[20:12:13] <atom1> i wonder if they have detents
[20:12:38] <JT-Shop> something about generating a single pulse at a certain point as they are turned
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[20:27:36] <Connor> Yea, I think they have detents.
[20:27:59] <Connor> I'm trying to source all the parts needed to put together a Open Source Pendant.
[20:29:32] <jdhNC> make your own MPG encoder
[20:29:59] <jdhNC> surely someone has done that?
[20:30:16] <Connor> Well.. I kinda want the nice dial.
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[20:31:54] <Connor> I can use any quadratic encoder for it.. but.. why go through all the problems of trying to do that when you can buy a MPG already made? I just trying to track down a source that I can buy them in bulk once I've got all the stuff figured out.
[20:32:37] <jdhNC> http://rogersmachine.net/MPG/heatsink.html
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[20:33:40] <Connor> read his note at the bottom.
[20:34:09] <jdhNC> that's why I pasted it
[20:34:43] <atom1> what a fugly site
[20:34:50] <Connor> no joke.
[20:35:06] <atom1> doesn't fit my screen either
[20:36:29] <atom1> nm, i had zoom'd on something prior :)
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[20:39:00] <Jymmm> bottom of page... http://www.micronor.com/products.php?category=Manual%20Pulse%20Generators%20and%20Pendants&offset=0
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[20:39:23] <Connor> Already there and looking at the spec sheet
[20:40:22] <Connor> That is the 60mm one..
[20:41:43] <Connor> wait. no.. it's not..
[20:41:51] <Connor> it's close.. but not the same.
[20:46:02] <atom1> mounting is a bit different
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[20:48:10] <atom1> http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/11000091/60_80mm_Handwheel.html
[20:52:38] <jdhNC> http://futurelife.en.ec21.com/CNC_Machine_Tool_Parts_and--4097740_4110009.html
[20:52:43] <jdhNC> the third pendant looks cool
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[20:53:21] <jdhNC> they have ads on cnczone
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[20:58:47] <MrCraig> hi all - downloading emc2 right now to use with my first mill :-) Does emc support soft limits as mach3 does? My mill is a simple, cheap, desktop mill without kill switches.
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[20:59:43] <JT-Shop> yep, and much more
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[21:01:09] <MrCraig> I'm a little concerned about getting it set up - I don't know much about the motors, nor the pin-outs at the parallel port.
[21:01:26] <JT-Shop> MrCraig: there are 3 places to get help here, the forum and the mailing list as you prefer
[21:01:37] <JT-Shop> stepper drive?
[21:01:44] <MrCraig> They are steppers yes
[21:01:52] <JT-Shop> what drives are they?
[21:02:35] <MrCraig> The manufacturer is MINEBEA
[21:02:40] <JT-Shop> a list of poplar drives is here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Drive_Timing
[21:02:55] <JT-Shop> never heard of them...
[21:03:49] <MrCraig> I'm not suprised, this machine came from china - the motors from thailand... the very first time I set it up the cheap controller exploded (capacitor blew) and I had to buy a replacement :)
[21:04:48] <MrCraig> I have had it working in mach3, but only in so much as to manually play with controls - I may glean some config info from it but I don't think it was right to start with because it'd cause the motors to sing quite a bit.
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[21:08:25] <JT-Shop> any info on drive timing?
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[21:09:00] <JT-Shop> you should at least get the pinout for your parallel port from mack
[21:10:21] <MrCraig> *nods - I got a pinout document with the controller board which I used to configure mach originally - I'll have a copy handy when I come to configure. I know nothing of the drive timings but I'm trying the model numbers in google
[21:13:25] <JT-Shop> step and direction times can not be too slow but can be too fast...
[21:13:50] <JT-Shop> so start slow if you don't have a clue and look at some of the timings on the link I gave you for an idea
[21:14:53] <MrCraig> Thanks, does 1.8 Degrees mean anything to you? (as taken from the label on the motors)
[21:15:38] <JT-Shop> normal amount most steppers turn for on step
[21:16:11] <MrCraig> That's what I figured, that might be handy in calibrations
[21:16:17] <JT-Shop> so 360/1.8=200 steps per revolution
[21:17:12] * JT-Shop stops making parts and starts preparing for tomorrows sheetrock party :)
[21:17:23] <JT-Shop> everyone is invited!
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[21:18:07] <MrCraig> lol just curious, where at?
[21:20:29] <JT-Shop> Swamp East Missouri
[21:20:54] <JT-Shop> you?
[21:21:41] <MrCraig> Just outside London UK
[21:21:55] <MrCraig> google found 1 link, read thai by any chance? http://allegro.pl/silnik-krokowy-ax050193b-17pm-k405-g6v-ricoh-i1587694359.html#
[21:22:03] <MrCraig> http://allegro.pl/silnik-krokowy-ax050193b-17pm-k405-g6v-ricoh-i1587694359.html
[21:25:59] <MrCraig> I think it's bad news that all three motors, while they look identical, have a slightly different type number. One of the type numbers did turn up a link to a pdf from the manufacturers and it's in english though. http://cnc25.free.fr/documentation/moteurs%20pap/pap_nmb.pdf
[21:31:22] <Connor> I've looked till I'm sick.. I can't find WHO makes that MPG...
[21:32:21] <JT-Shop> CHINA
[21:32:31] <Connor> Yea.. I know.. but WHO in China ? :)
[21:32:51] <Jymmm> Connor: What, you going to order a container full of them?
[21:32:59] <MrCraig> Now another question - I downloaded the live cd, but I'd much rather install on my ubuntu box - however there's no install package. Is there somewhere I can get my hands on a .deb for x86_64 ?
[21:33:08] <JT-Shop> MrCraig: are they all the same physical size?
[21:33:15] <Connor> Umm no.
[21:33:22] <JT-Shop> use the livecd
[21:33:33] <Connor> but.. someone has to have them in a decent price or wholesale or something.
[21:33:41] <MrCraig> JT-Shop: yes, they look identical in size, shape and everything else - only the numbers on the labels vary, and then only slightly
[21:33:46] <Connor> I've found 3 or 4 "small" cnc shops that carry them.
[21:34:08] <JT-Shop> I really doubt you can complete with guys that work for a bowl of rice a day and make pendants
[21:34:19] <Jymmm> Connor: You've been carrying on for months about this, are you just being cheap or something?
[21:34:34] <Jymmm> You could have had one by now and been making chips!
[21:35:26] <Connor> Jymmm: What the heck are you talking about? I've been doing research.. today is the first time I've really looked at the MPG's in detail trying to find the source...
[21:35:46] <MrCraig> Connor did you search alibaba ? That's where most china product finds it's way to the uk now :-P
[21:35:49] <JT-Shop> MrCraig: unless your a linux guru you want to use the LiveCD
[21:35:51] <Jymmm> Connor: mpg, pendant, whatever.
[21:36:30] <MrCraig> JT-Shop: please tell me the live distro has xchat on it :)
[21:36:45] <Connor> Jymmm: I've been talking about putting together a DIY or Opensource pendant.. I'm now researching the sources for the parts.. that's all.
[21:38:18] <JT-Shop> dunno I use chatzilla but I'm sure a sudo apt-get install xchat or something like that will have it loaded
[21:39:15] <JT-Shop> MrCraig: at least you can get your motor specs from that sheet
[21:40:10] <MrCraig> JT-Shop, actually, my model isn't on there - I have 17PM-K405-* and the closest it lists is 17PM-K402-*
[21:40:11] <JT-Shop> if you decide to use a good step driver you can use this page to calculate what voltage you want http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Formulas
[21:41:19] <JT-Shop> does your stepper drive use a parallel cable from the PC to the drive?
[21:42:06] <MrCraig> yes JT-Shop and I should be able to find the sheet for the driver card because it was a replacement bought for the machine
[21:42:14] <MrCraig> I believe it's a common one
[21:42:17] <KimK> MrCraig: The live distro may or may not have xchat on it, but it's easy to add in Synaptic. And I recommend the non-gnome xchat, despite the fact that the gnome xchat has the Ubuntu recommended symbol on it.
[21:43:08] <MrCraig> thanks KimK
[21:43:16] <JT-Shop> once you find the step and direction pins you can use the Stepconf Wizard to set your machine up
[21:43:18] <KimK> The gnome xchat has too many features removed, or something. It rates a "blah".
[21:43:19] <mrsunshine> anonimasu, otdtools had that color
[21:43:23] <mrsunshine> if that was what you ment
[21:43:59] <JT-Shop> then start with some conservative step and direction timings and test each axis
[21:44:49] <KimK> MrCraig: Just curious, what drives you from Mach3 to EMC2?
[21:45:40] <MrCraig> KimK - actually it was primarily that I'm using linux as a desktop over windows - and my laptop died so I'm now using the machine the mill is attached to as my desktop.
[21:46:03] <MrCraig> The live cd thing is unfortunate, but even so, emc looks like it has fewer buttons
[21:47:35] <KimK> You have Linux installed already, and it's Ubuntu, but it's 64bit? What version?
[21:48:03] <MrCraig> 10.x - it was the latest edition until yesterday when NN was released.
[21:50:36] <JT-Shop> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?64BitSupport
[21:51:50] <KimK> Yes, well, here we tend to favor the LTS versions, currently 8.04 and 10.04. In fact, I have a 64bit PC, but I'm running 32bit because of EMC2. I'll have to leave it to others to tell you how 64bit ready EMC is now, but at the time, I was advised to let it go. Ah, JT is ahead of me. Thanks, JT.
[21:52:07] <JT-Shop> :)
[21:52:39] <MrCraig> :-) well if I'm using the live CD I shouldn't need worry about the processor at least
[21:53:38] <MrCraig> This is a P4 64-bit, genuine intel with HT. It's quite old
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[21:54:05] <KimK> Yes, the LiveCD should be 32bit and all ready to go. Is this your first visit to this channel?
[21:54:25] <MrCraig> yes KimK
[21:55:29] <KimK> Wait two weeks and then look for andy here. He's in your general area.
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[21:56:16] <MrCraig> Aaah a tip-off for a stalk target, nice :)
[21:56:18] <MrCraig> hehe
[21:57:28] <MrCraig> desperately trying to find the paper work I had with this controller
[21:58:59] <KimK> JT-Shop: Sorry I'm not closer, I would come to your sheetrock party.
[22:00:03] <JT-Shop> thanks
[22:00:27] <JT-Shop> so far it is a party of 2 + the sheetrock jack
[22:00:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I'll be the bartender at your party
[22:01:01] <JT-Shop> while your waiting for the bar to open you can use the screw gun
[22:01:13] <MrCraig> TB6560 :-)
[22:01:32] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: No no, I'll takecare of getting the bar preped and opened
[22:02:30] <JT-Shop> then the beer will be flat if you open it early
[22:02:55] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Don't you worry about that, I'll take care of it all
[22:03:24] <JT-Shop> ok, party starts at 7:30AM sharp... don't be late
[22:03:57] <Jymmm> Ok, 7pm it is!
[22:04:33] * JT-Shop smacks Jymmm up side his head with an Accutron
[22:04:43] -!- H264 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[22:04:52] * Jymmm pours another beer
[22:05:06] <KimK> JT-Shop: Reminds me of Mark Twain describing how he came to California: "I was told the gold was just lying in the streets there, all you had to do was pick it up. But when I got there I found you had to had to dig for it with a long-handled shovel..."
[22:05:09] <KimK> "...Well, I had no use for a long-handled shovel. So, I became a newspaper reporter. Well, I hated to do it, but I couldn't find honest employment."
[22:05:30] <JT-Shop> MrCraig: http://www.sonsivri.com/forum/index.php?topic=33768.0
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[22:06:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Nope, beer not ready yet. Will keep making adjustments.
[22:06:07] <MrCraig> aaah thank you :-)
[22:06:29] <MrCraig> JT-Shop, thanks, might stop the screaming even under mach3 with this
[22:06:33] <JT-Shop> I thought I remembered something about that number
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[22:07:19] * JT-Shop listens to "Thick as a Brick" in the quiet of the garage
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[22:13:13] <MrCraig> ok, I'm going to take off for the evening because it's getting late. Thanks very much for the initial help - hopefully I'll be up and running this weekend :)
[22:13:25] <JT-Shop> see ya
[22:13:39] <KimK> bye
[22:13:48] -!- MrCraig has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[22:14:36] <atom1> i had to install xchat
[22:15:06] <Connor> I use pidgin
[22:15:22] * JT-Shop goes to fix his pause/resume button on the Hardinge CHNC now that I know how
[22:15:33] <atom1> Connor, you didn't like the handwheels from china?
[22:15:42] <atom1> the alibaba site i posted?
[22:15:48] <Connor> Which ones?
[22:15:57] <Connor> I must have missed the link.
[22:16:06] * atom1 keeps it a secret
[22:16:17] <atom1> http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/11000091/60_80mm_Handwheel.html
[22:16:42] <Connor> Oh. yea.. I looked at those.. They're not the thin or low profile versions..
[22:17:29] <atom1> so how do you get .1 .01 and .001 res from it?
[22:17:54] <Connor> from the MPG ?
[22:18:05] <atom1> from the 'device'
[22:18:20] <Connor> Rotary switch on right hand side.. You select the multiplier.
[22:18:38] <Connor> left hand rotary switch selects the axis or mode..
[22:18:47] <atom1> right but what's inside
[22:19:14] <Connor> ATMega328 with Arduino bootloader..
[22:19:32] <atom1> omg does everything revolve around arduino?
[22:19:43] <Connor> No. But, it's easy.
[22:19:59] <atom1> 328 would probably be overkill
[22:20:04] <Connor> Libraries for LCD's... I2C, Serial...
[22:20:11] <atom1> i got all that
[22:20:27] <Connor> 4x20 LCD in it.
[22:20:34] <atom1> yes i have 4 sitting here
[22:20:44] <atom1> what type of output does it need?
[22:20:57] <Connor> for ?
[22:21:01] <atom1> what does emc expect to see to know that it's 'x' axis at .1 res
[22:21:04] <atom1> for example
[22:21:14] <atom1> is there a protocol?
[22:21:20] <Connor> Oh. Will be a python plugin for EMC.
[22:21:41] <Connor> that will interface in with Axis and HAL.
[22:22:27] <atom1> there must be some sort of standard protocol for those silly things
[22:22:43] <Connor> Standard checksum..
[22:22:48] <Connor> nothing major.
[22:23:07] <atom1> brb
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[22:24:47] <atom1> you wanted to make a project out of this
[22:24:51] <atom1> i was just looking for ideas
[22:25:09] <Connor> Yea.. I want to make a open source version of it..
[22:25:32] <atom1> standard rs232 interface?
[22:25:37] <Connor> USB
[22:25:43] <atom1> using lufa?
[22:26:18] <Connor> That's on the New ones.. Might be the FTDI
[22:26:31] <atom1> ick
[22:26:43] <Connor> Doesn't matter..
[22:26:45] <atom1> one avr usb chip would do the whole thing
[22:27:11] <Connor> Well.. maybe.
[22:27:28] <atom1> atmega32Uxx
[22:28:08] <Connor> You need 6-7 outputs for the LCD. 2 Inputs for the MPG, 2 Analogs for the Rotary select switches (wired up using resistor ladder)
[22:28:38] <Connor> Then you have 4 soft buttons, 2 active buttons, and start/stop/pause buttons.
[22:28:46] <Connor> oh and estop
[22:41:18] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
[22:41:52] <atom1> has adc
[22:44:30] -!- micges has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
[22:46:38] <atom1> http://www.pmdx.com/MPG-01
[22:49:51] -!- JT-Shop has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224]]
[22:50:20] <EDocTooR> I want to add your topic to my new forum... what should I call your topic "EMC software" or "Opensource software"
[22:50:32] <EDocTooR> http://edoctoor.byethost12.com/forum/
[22:51:50] <EDocTooR> Sure there is cnczone but ours won't be overwhelmed with Advertisers
[22:52:40] <EDocTooR> is everyone sleeping here
[22:53:28] <PCW> bzzzzzzzzz
[22:53:38] <EDocTooR> thats what I thought
[22:53:40] <EDocTooR> lol
[22:54:59] <EDocTooR> ok,,, I won't add a topic
[22:55:01] <EDocTooR> later
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[23:34:54] <alex_joni> hey all
[23:37:25] <alex_joni> guess no one's home right now ;)
[23:49:34] <jdhNC> everyone is off making precision parts
[23:49:36] <PCW> bzzzzzzzz
[23:51:00] * atom1 senses a 60 hz bzzzzzz
[23:51:02] <jdhNC> I turned in a request for two 7i43's, two 5i23's two wtf those 8/16 daughterboards are and an 8i77?
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[23:51:52] <jdhNC> unfortunately sourcing/purchasing and IT are the least likely groups to get anything useful accomplished.
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[23:55:18] <Jymmm> http://futuremate.en.alibaba.com/
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